Beacons of Mental Health
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So are we supposed to start the podcast? One, two, three. Pretty good right off the bat. It's pretty good. I mean, we have to continue the clap. Even though it was a big prank on me. Big dick over. Now I feel like we couldn't do the show without it. We couldn't. And people are looking forward to your... My clapping. Clap off. My clap off. Instead of a kick off.

It's a clap off. It's a clap off. Remember like in the 90s, 80s, 90s, the clapper commercial? Clap on, clap off. The clapper. Yeah. And you turned your lights off. It was like pre Alexa, the 80s version of Alexa. Yes. With your lights. Yes. I loved it. Well, Pumps, what have you had it with today? I've had it with employees of stores.

talking to somebody on the phone when you're standing there in person. So let me tell you what I'm talking about. So I go in to grab just one little item. It'll take 30 seconds. The clerk is on the phone helping a customer and answering the customer's questions while I'm standing there.

I think it's appropriate. And I was always taught when I worked in retail is that you put them on hold. You say, I'm sorry, I have a customer. Let me get right back on you because they're at home. They don't have any claim to taking over the whole store, not being at the store. And so the customers that are there in real life that schlepped their fat asses up there to grab something have to wait until Jane Doe on the phone asks 47 impertinent questions.

This happens a lot. But what if you are the person that went in person, that schlepped your ass up to the store? Right. You bought something and something's wrong with it or there's an issue with it. And so then you phone. What if you're the caller? I wouldn't be the caller. I would just take it back up there and return it. I mean, I just, I find it. And the last time it happened-

This woman, I swear to God, asked the same question 50 times because the girl, it was only the girl and I, and she answered it like 50 different ways. And I'm just like, shut the fuck up. She's answered your question three times. You're not getting what you want to hear. So you keep asking the same question. Another thing that's my pet peeve is when you go in somewhere and

And the employees are talking and not helping it. Oh, that's the worst. It's the worst. It happened like a month ago. I went in to grab a poster board, like a $2 item. So I go up.

The clerks are shooting the shit. And you can tell it's not about work because they're laughing and giggling. And I'm like tapping my hand, you know, looking extremely impatient. Finally, I just took a $5 bill out of my purse and left. Just left the whole thing. So what you're identifying are...

yak mouths that work together. Yes. Yak mouthing. Yes. Instead of doing their jobs. Right. Now this happens a lot. You could be in a restaurant and you need a refill or you need like an extra side of salad dressing. Right. And it's been 10 minutes since the waiter's been to your table and you're kind of looking around. Like where are you? You need this one ingredient. Before you can eat. To continue your meal. Right. And they're all chit-chatting. Yeah. Yeah.

You know, knee slapping jokes over there just cutting up, which I think it's fun to have fun with your coworkers at work. Right. But take care of your shit. Handle your shit. Then go fuck around. That's exactly right. Do what you're supposed to do. In a situation like that, I always march my ass right up to those people and be like,

I need someone to find my waiter or waitress. And this is what I need. So one of my best gay friends, he's, he's dead now, but his name was Drew. And we would go out and this is before I had kids and we'd go out and we'd go to like brunch or something obnoxious, right? And we'd be drinking bottomless mimosas the whole nine and we'd start to get rowdy. And

I'd be with a bunch of gay guys and we're just cutting it up, having the best time ever. And the waiter would take a long time to come back over. So he would get his cell phone and he would call the restaurant. And so they would answer it like such and such bar. And he'd be like, hi, my name is Drew. And I'm at the table in the back corner by the window sitting at an eight top.

and we haven't seen our waiter in like 10 to 15 minutes. Can you please tell him we need some more mimosas and some more chips and salsa? Thanks. And he'd hang up. I worship that bitch boss move. Totally love that. He was hilarious. Oh my gosh. I'm going to do that the next time. Yeah. You can just call. You can be the caller. I can be the caller and say, can I speak to the manager? That's a Karen caller. I know, but I kind of

feel like I am a Karen so I'm just going to embrace it. Okay. All right. Let me tell you what I've had it with. Okay. I have had it with people micromanaging other people on the internet. I'm going to give you a prime example. Okay. See right now I have my foot on this table. Right. Multiple times like in a reel or in our YouTube videos in the comment section somebody will write she needs to take her foot off the table. Right.

And I am just like, why do you give a shit? It's not your table. Right. It's not your foot. It's not your podcast. All you're doing is trolling in the comments section, wasting all of this precious energy worried about this. And it's like, why do you care? We don't eat off this table. No. I kind of like propping my foot up. Right.

Get over it. Another example is there was this one guy who followed me for a while. He doesn't follow me anymore, but I didn't know him in person. He broke up with you? Yes, because he would always send me these comments like I would go to Orange Theory or I was working out at Orange Theory like a crazy person. Okay. And I was a nut.

a total had it violator and I would post my score, my Orange Theory score on my story. That's so embarrassing. It is, but I did it and I would double down and do it again. And so he would message me, instead of going to Orange Theory, you should go to blank, blank exercise class. What? Yes. So then we like to go to Italy every summer to the same place for our family vacation. And this was like a permanent post.

And he goes on like a four to five long sentence, scolding me and telling me that I should stop going to Italy. And I need to look into going to Switzerland because it's in Switzerland. You can do X, Y, Z, and Italy's overrated and blah, blah, blah. And I think I responded to him saying,

I like Italy and I'm going to continue going to Italy. Why do you care where I go? Mind your business. Why do you care what exercise class I take? And like, why the fuck is he micromanaging me? Unfollow me. I think that's more stalker-ish. It was weird. That is weird. But there are so many people that like, there's all of this like unsolicited micromanaging bullshit that goes on on the internet. Like the last thing I do when I'm, when I see somebody's

Instagram post is like, hey, you might want to lighten up on those fake eyelashes. You look like shit. I might think it. But you're not going to write it. But I don't write it. Right. These trolls think it.

And write it. And put it on the World Wide Web for everybody to know what fucking assholes they are. It's just breathtaking, really. Right. The keyboard courage rises again. Keyboard courage. I'm not going to, if I see somebody riding their Peloton bike on their Instagram, chime in and say, hey, you might want to give Ashtanga Yoga a try. Yeah.

And we all know what a nut I am about pickleball. I don't stop on tennis players' profiles or golfers' profiles and say, hey, you need to give up golf and segue over to pickleball. I just don't do it. I think it. Okay? I have asshole thoughts. I don't, quote unquote, manifest them onto the internet. And so I wonder where, like,

The thinking and the discernment suspends for these people because they just don't have it. It's a complete suspension of...

that's really not my place to tell them what to do with their life. Right. If they want to be assholes, they could form a podcast called I've Had It and call out these people each week. That's right. Like we've done. Right. You know? Making the unproductive productive. That's right. Right. Look at her again. Yes. Making the unproductive productive. Somebody wrote on YouTube. What would it say, Kylie, that...

Pumps was like a Jedi or a guru? A guru. Guru. Somebody wrote, Pumps is a low-key guru. Oh my gosh, what am I a guru at? Just life? Life. You know what I need to do? I need to become a life coach. Oh, for fuck's sake. That is about the worst idea you have ever had. Oh, I don't know. I think there's been worse. I think there's been way worse. Well, I would like to welcome everybody to our show called I've Had It.

I'm Jennifer. I'm Angie. She is the guru of our show. The guru. The star of our show. Okay, one quick thing.

Some people pronounce guru, guru. Which is it? What? Yes. You're making that up. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. It's completely manufactured. No, it is not. I've heard people say it. Richard, YouTube this. In one of my many cult things, cult shows I've watched, they call it a guru. Here's how Google says it. Okay. Guru. Okay, so we're saying it right. Guru. I don't know what you're talking about. No, I did see. You know, I watch all those cult things. Yeah.

And it was on one of those, I'm pretty sure. Nonetheless, I want to get back to you being the star of our show. Right. Life Catch and Training. Yes. Guru. We want everybody to go to Apple Review and leave five stars and tell us...

Who's the star of the show? And I'm going to throw in a couple of alternates. Okay. If you've had it with myself, the co-star or the star. Right. Grand standing around, renaming things, making up rules that you have to get bangs when you're 60. All this bullshit. This jet stream of utter bullshit that comes out of her mouth.

Kylie and Richard are viable options of being stars of the show. Being the favorites, yes. Richard pulled right through in the clutch right there with the real pronunciation of guru. Right. And poor Richard has to put up with the three of us. God love him. I know. Kylie, do we have any comments online that are of interest that you need to share with us and our listener? I've got two that I think you'll like. Okay, good. This is a five-star review on Apple.

This podcast makes me laugh so much. Pumps is the Princess Diana of Oklahoma. I mean...

Yes, because I'm so classy. The Princess Diana of Oklahoma City. I cannot wait for the next episode when I do the introduction because I was growing tired of the star of our show. Now we know. The Princess Diana. That is hilarious. Of Oklahoma City. Weigh in on the Apple reviews. Is it just Oklahoma City or could we go nationwide? Could we go international? Could we go? Could we?

loop the UK into that. They probably would not want to loop me in as Princess Diana. But I mean, you know, Princess Diana was a woman of the people. Right. You are a woman of the people. A guru. A guru. Or as you would say, a guru. You just flat out, flat ass, make shit up and trot it out as facts. No, I swear to God, I saw that. I heard that. I swear to God on my children's lives.

Okay. Okay. This one's for you, Jen. Okay. This is on TikTok from Lady Whiskey. Okay. Jen is magic. She's gorgeous, witty, and hilarious. Oh, that's so nice. Completely agree. Thank you, Captain Obvious. Hashtag humility. Support for today's episode comes from Jenny Kane. Jenny, what did your boys get you for Mother's Day?

Well, Pumps, as you know, Josh has incredible taste, but I don't want to go on about that because I've got to keep his ego beaten down. But nonetheless, he did nail my Mother's Day gift. Well, that's no shock. He has great taste. I got the most amazing cashmere knit sweater from Jenny Kane that I had been secretly hinting at for weeks. Shut up. I love Jenny Kane. The pieces are simple, stylish, comfortable, and chic.

Every time I wear something from Jenny Kane, I get nonstop compliments. Well, Pumps, as the star of our show, it is incredibly important that you wear things like this so that you stay the hot one.

And now you have Jenny Kane to thank for that. I sure do. To find your forever pieces, visit JennyKane.com. Our listeners get 15% off your first order when you use code HADIT at checkout. That's 15% off your first order. J-E-N-N-I-K-A-Y-N-E.com promo code HADIT. Mamas, it's your month. So treat yourself. Okay.

Today, I'm very excited about this episode. We are going to have a real live psychoanalyst therapist who has written a book called The Boundary Boss. Oh, excellent. And we all know that you are breathtakingly deficient in drawing boundaries, despite the tens of thousands of dollars you've spent on

with psychoanalysts such as our next guest. Right. Like I dare say hundreds of thousands. I think we should let her take a crack at this. Okay. Yeah. So she is the author of Boundary Boss and her name is Terry Cole. So let's welcome Terry Cole on I've Had It. Terry, welcome to I've Had It. How are you?

I'm good. How are you guys? We're great. I'm super excited about this episode. Very excited about this episode. So you are the author of a book called The Boundary Boss and a psychoanalyst. Psychotherapist. Psychotherapist. Psychotherapist. Well, can you tell us what you have had it with? I've had it with passive aggressive communication.

Oh, I love that one. That is a great one. Great one. Give us an example of the most recent form of passive aggressive behavior that has caused you to have it. A friend saying that I got the time wrong that we were supposed to meet, even though actually I didn't. And she was like, but that's okay. See you soon with like a smiley face. Like the passive aggressive smiley really kills me when someone

It's actually saying something. They're criticizing you, but with an emoji. It's really, you know, it's really patronizing. I recently was on a website. I think corporations are using passive aggressive behavior. And recently I was on a website and this website,

box pops up, enter your email address to become a member of our club and receive 10% off your purchase. Well, I went to X out that box because I didn't want to give out my email address and I didn't want to be a member of the club. And so then this other screen pops up that says, no comma, I don't want to save 10%. And to proceed on shopping, I had to acknowledge that I don't want to save 10%. So it makes me look like this asshole. And I'm like,

These corporations are getting so passive aggressive, wanting our email addresses and then shaming us when we don't want to sign up to be a member of their club to receive the barrage of emails. Right. I mean, they want to stalk you is what they want to do. Yes. And sell your information to other people. And yeah. Right. Exactly. So you're trying to draw a boundary.

And then you get shamed for drawing a boundary by a corporation. Yeah, it's pretty bad. But I have to say passive aggressive behavior is out there and has been out there forever and ever and ever. And in respect to boundaries, right? It's directly related because if you can't be direct about your boundaries, which are your preferences, your desires, your limits, and your deal breakers, then we find an indirect way

to still communicate what that is, right? Because those feelings don't go away. If you don't want to do something, but you don't have the ability to say no, you might get a migraine the morning up. You might flip it and be like, you know, I don't know why so-and-so is asking me to come again. She's so entitled thinking I should go to her house all the time. Like instead of just being able to say, hey, I'm not up for it. It doesn't work for me. I'm really beat telling the truth.

passive aggressive communication is a way to still not do what you want to do.

Right. So what about this? I was Googling online about passive aggressive behavior. And what about passive aggressive gift giving? An example would be like maybe gifting somebody a self-help book or maybe somebody that you think might be overweight, buying them a size that is smaller. I once received as a gift from our friend Julie for my birthday, some bronzer and

Which is such a random thing to receive as a gift. Right. And I immediately knew she thinks I look too pale. Too pale. And she wants me to bronze up. I kind of think that's hilarious. It's interesting, though, because again, what is it? It's indirectly communicating.

What Julie thought you'd look better with a little bronzer. She's indirectly communicating it though. Right. Or the husband or the wife who's giving the spouse the exercise bike. Right. Or, you know, because I know you really want it. No, because you think I'm fat is what that's about. But again, it's gift giving.

is something that if you're trying to give someone a secret hint, I would say that's the least best place to do it. Like, I think we can all agree that that's just so rude. Like, don't waste your money on a passive aggressive gift. Just learn some boundaries. Exactly. Here's another example. So there was a roommate situation in a flat in the UK. And

And this one particular roommate was furious with all of the other roommates because they weren't picking up after themselves in the flat. So she goes and renames on the Netflix profile. You know how you can have individual users. And so one person's name was fuck you. The next roommate was for leaving. The next one was the flat a mess. The last one was sincerely Debbie. Right.

That's pretty funny. I thought it was pretty clever. Right. It is. But think about, I mean, it's clever and it is funny, but think about the bandwidth, time and energy that Debbie used to rename all of those avatars when perhaps Debbie could have had a flat meeting and it

expressed how she felt and why she felt that way and made a simple request that they not be slobs. Now I'm not saying that means they would, they would listen, but there's something about the indirectness of it. Even if it's clever, that tells us that there's something missing in your skillset. You know what I mean?

Right. Right. Let's move on to boundaries. So I'm going to give you a little history here. My husband is a recovering drug addict, alcoholic. So through that journey with him and he is like many addicts relapsed multiple times, had sustained sobriety and then something would trigger a relapse. So obviously this has sent me straight to the therapist's office because

multiple times through my late 20s, all of my 30s, and a significant portion of my 40s. And I believe that you are correct that boundaries and passive aggressive behavior go hand in hand. And there was this one time when I was just a little baby codependent in the beginning stages of our marriage. And I'm trying to figure out what on earth is going on. I'm talking to our friend Libby on the phone. And

And Josh is in rehab, but he is like being very, he's very angry. He's in a lot of denial. He's mad that he's there. The typical, you know, reaction that a lot of alcoholics and drug addicts have once they're removed from their addiction.

So I'm telling my friend, I'm not going to talk to him anymore. I'm going to draw a boundary. I've had it with him. He's being such a dick. He just needs to meet with his therapist, blah, blah, blah. And she's like totally cheerleading me on. And then...

The call waiting beeps and it's Josh. After I said all of this completely in denial, Terry, I said, Oh my God, I'll call you right back. That's Josh. And I clicked over, took his call. Of course we got into a big row.

And then I call Libby back and she is literally jaw on the floor. She goes, do you not realize that we just talked about the boundary that you were going to draw? And then you said, I'll call you right back. It's Josh on the other line. And it didn't hit me until she said that. But here's the thing you're talking about disordered boundaries and codependency.

are, you know, codependency, the foundation of codependency is disordered boundaries. So it makes sense that you were codependently attached to Josh. So therefore your boundaries are disordered in that relationship because it's very difficult. You've got to deal with the codependency first in order to have better boundaries.

Right. Right. Right. Makes sense. Yeah, it does. So pumps has a really difficult time drawing boundaries. Right. I'm the worst at it. Very difficult. She over mothers. Totally. The kids, they get frustrated with her because she'll like if we go on a trip, she starts unpacking them. And I'm like,

Pump Sam is 22 and he's like, Jenny, please tell her I can unpack myself. And she says, well, it's just easier for me to unpack. And Sam's like, actually, it would be easier for me to do it, but she won't listen to me. And so I think it's interesting that we have this generation of Gen Zers that have been overdiagnosed with.

you know, issues to where AD, ADD, ADHD, which some of that is real, but I think a lot of physicians and parents throw medication at these problems. And then these kids, their parents are power moms. They're doing all this stuff up at the school for them. And then all of a sudden they're early adults and they say, I have so much anxiety. And I, I think that we need to look at what are we doing to contribute to our children's anxiety?

anxiety by over-parenting, over-diagnosing. What is your take on all of that? Well, what you're describing, and obviously, Pumps, you're not alone. What you're describing is what I call high-functioning codependency. So it's like when there's a problem,

When there's an issue, when there's something to be done, it's like we are immediately asserting ourselves and inserting ourselves into the middle of that thing, whatever the thing is. If we're constantly bailing kids out or doing things for them that they can and should be doing for themselves, we are saying, you need me to save you. You need me to do it. I don't think you can.

And it's really, really hard to not jump in, especially if a kid gets themselves in trouble. We don't want them to make a mistake. We don't want them to end up in a relationship with someone who we don't think is good for them. We don't want them to pick the wrong major. But again, in teaching them our job as parents, as we teach them critical thinking, deductive reasoning, like there has to be a point where we allow them to make mistakes. And if there's a lack of respect, right?

that a kid feels, even teens, when we're too controlling. Because think about what we're doing. We are centering every situation that they're in on us. We want to be the hero in their story rather than teaching them to be the hero in their own story. Oh my God, I feel like I'm sitting here butt naked. I mean, no.

Ding, ding, ding. We have a winner. I mean, on all of it. Okay. Top to bottom. The high functioning codependent. This, I mean, with all the therapy we've had. This is a new one. This is news. That's a thing. For sure. For sure. That's you. A hundred. Totally high functioning codependent. I mean, that is really eye opening. In my mind, it's like,

It'll just be easier if I do it. But that's exactly what you said. And then another thing. Okay, so this is an example. And I felt guilty about it. So tell me what you think. So my daughter called last night and she's in a panic. She's like, oh my gosh, my rent the one runway dress for the party this weekend just got canceled.

And my immediate thing was like, okay, well, let me transfer you some money so you can go get a new one. And instead I just said, well, Emily, you're just gonna have to go get another dress. I mean, you're gonna have to go to the mall or do something to get it. I didn't offer to do anything or order anything or give her money. And I felt like kind of guilty on the phone. Like, you know, like, I don't know. I just felt like I should have helped her more than I did. But I, so what do you think? Is that normal when you're trying to not be so codependent?

Yes, it's normal to feel guilty because you've had an unrealistic expectation of yourself of what it means to be mothering. And actually, I would flip it. Instead of saying you're just going to need to, I would say, what are you going to do? What do you think you should do?

always start with expansive questions. Even when my kids come to me, well, they're way adults now, but you know, and say, what do you think I should do about whatever? I will always say now, because I'm in recovery from a high functioning codependent, I will always say, well, first, what does your gut instinct say? What do you think? What if you did know, what would it be? We learn instead of to be so directional to ask expansive questions and

It doesn't mean in the end of that, that I won't give my opinion. It's that it's so much more important to teach young people to think for themselves. They do have the answers and it's okay to make mistakes, but the way we teach them is by asking and then being quiet. Because here's the reason why we're at Function Codependence and why we do it. Their discomfort is

makes us so uncomfortable. So what we tell ourselves though is like, I'm doing it from love. I mean, and there is love there, of course, but the truth, truth is that we want our discomfort to stop as soon as possible. So if I fix this problem, if I just transfer the money for the dress, I don't have to think about her dress anymore. I know it's taken care of, done. And

But there's a cost for doing that. Also, it's exhausting. Like you're tired as hell. We all are because it's the bandwidth.

I want to say something about half-functioning codependency. The reason you have not heard of this term is that I coined this term. I'm actually writing a book about it right now. Oh, good. I think it's spot on. Spot on. So part of why I came up with this terminology is that I had all of these baller women in my practice who I would see codependent behaviors and I would mention it and they'd be like, yeah, no.

I'm not dependent on squat. I'm making all the money. I'm making all the freaking decisions. I'm the rock in all of my friend groups. My family comes to me for everything. I'm not dependent. And I was like, oh, my clients don't know what codependency is. And it's a very particular flavor of codependency when you are highly capable women, because you make that shit look easy. It's like nobody would look at you and be like, oh, she's suffering.

They don't know. Right. Right. I just saw this happening with every person who came in where, again, they kept being like, Terry, I'm fine. I'm like, listen, fine is not the same as being peaceful. Oh, totally.

Listener, you know how I feel about oversized beverages and the ridiculous amount of sweet tea and sugar pumps is ingesting daily. And I just want to reiterate how disgusting and unhealthy I think it is for the permanent record. Actually, Jenny, for the permanent record, I haven't been drinking as much sweet tea and have stopped using artificial sweeteners. What?

You will be thrilled to know that I have finally taken your advice and switched to drinking Hint water. Hint water is pure fruit infused water that satisfies my sweet craving and I already feel so much better. This is a huge relief both for me and your kidneys.

I know, and Hint Water has zero sugar, calories, and no artificial sweeteners. They have many great flavors. Blueberry Lemon is my favorite. I am so proud of you, Pumpers. I knew you would be. You can buy Hint Water at retail stores like Walmart, Target, or Kroger, or

Or you can have it delivered right to your door by ordering from HintWater.com. New customers can get Hint Water for just a dollar a bottle with free shipping when they order three cases. That's 36 bottles for $36 plus free shipping. Just use code HADIT at checkout. I spent so much of my life when my kids were little.

And Josh's addiction was, you know, on again, off again.

as a very high functioning codependent very much. I mean, now that you say that, I know that's exactly what I was. I tried to control what he did. I tried to fix him. And if somebody would have seen me during this time, I have a very successful interior design business. Josh would relapse. It was so painful for me, but I really didn't outwardly show it. I kept it in. I

I was in agony, in complete agony. And I went to a therapist, oh, probably about seven or eight years ago. And I've been on again, off again with different therapists.

And I make this laundry list. Josh did this. His family of origin did this. And it was just this perfect picture that I could paint about how fucked up he was and why he was fucked up. And the therapist looked at me and said, why did you pick him? And I'm literally like looking around like, is Ashton Kutcher about to walk in here and punk me? Is he suggesting that I...

have a role in this. I'm trying to save this man's life for God's sake. And he's suggesting that I'm the problem. He was 1000% correct that maybe Josh's addictive behaviors were more overt than

And mine were more covert, but we came together. Our dysfunction fit and there was something normal on a subconscious level about it to me that kept me in it. And it wasn't until this therapist said this, that I was able to liberate myself from a lot of codependent thinking and trying to fix and trying to control things.

And it's not a sudden change. It's slowly but surely. We would have a fight or I would suspect that Josh had relapsed. And the wording that I would choose was,

became different and less passive aggressive. I would always try to figure out what was going on with him through passive aggressive means instead of just now I'm able to be vulnerable and say, Josh, when you did this, it reminded me of old addictive behaviors and it made me feel scared.

And that sounds so simple as I'm saying it right now. But it's not. Terry, that shit was hard for me to be that vulnerable, identify the problem and connect how it makes me feel. But it wasn't until that therapist suggested that.

rather painfully that something could be wrong with me too. It wasn't until that happened because Josh's story was juicy. I mean, it could take up years and years of therapy and the therapist were like, Oh my God, I can't believe all that happened to him. And that all this toxic stuff is going on between the two of you. But when we left him out of it and looked at my journey that led me to a dysfunctional relationship, I was able to grow and grow.

I like myself so much more and have what you talk about, have that inner peace. And it's a slow road to get there, but I have been getting a lot of traction lately and I like myself so much more and I like my relationships so much more. Yes. And I think that you make a great point when it came to looking at you, right? Because what do they say in therapy circles? We repeat what we do not repair. Oh, yes. And so-

Right. So you and you said we fit together in some strange way. I always say the cracked pot always finds the perfectly cracked lid. Right.

When it comes to romance. Yes. Right. Yes. Right. We have wounds that we're sort of mirroring for each other. And there is something familiar about the people that we choose. So I want to tell you, before we were such beacons of mental health that you see right before you now, Terry, I want to tell you. I'm no beacon. You're getting better. I'm getting better, but I'm just a little bitty light right now. My candle's small, but it's...

It's trying. Terry, when she writes this book about the high functioning codependency, your life's going to completely change. I might have to like be on, be your cover model. I'll get stories from you. So I want to tell you some stories about how crazy we were back in the day. And I'm going to tell you some shit that we did. And then you can tell us how we should have handled it. Okay. Here's an example. Um,

Pumps and her husband were in marriage counseling. Okay. And this poor psychotherapist like yourself, Pumps couldn't get in to see him for about seven to nine days. And she was certain that her ex-husband was lying to the psychotherapist. So she pitches to me, she's made this list of things.

He's lying about this, this, this. She had about 10 items. She's as manic as all get out. And she's like, he's not able to get me in for a week or two. So I think we should drive to the parking lot of where he works and grab him while he's going back in from his lunch and I can give him this list.

And I look at her and this is me, the codependent. I look at her and say, that is a really terrible idea. I'll drive. Exactly. Let's go. Let's go. Yeah, no. So I ambushed him going in for lunch out of his lunch. I mean, how embarrassing. I'm sitting in the car in this poor, you know, learned car.

Right. Brainiac psychotherapist hops out of his car, pumps barrels out with the list. And she's like, I don't know what he's been telling you, but he did this and this and this. Like I'm thinking that was so bad. I mean, that was so bad.

What did the psychotherapist do is my real question. He invited me in. So I went in for a second. He's like, you know, was super sweet and calming. But we very early on with him, I knew that we were way too fucked up for him. He was your more, you know,

You didn't bring in the trash cans from the street. I'm mad. You didn't do this. You forgot to pick up the cleaning. Yeah. That kind of guy. We were stage five fucked up. We need the most, I mean, Hiroshima style therapist we could get. Yeah.

So yeah, no, I do remember that very vividly. Well, Terry, I want to lighten it up a little bit. And we have a little game that we play with our guests called Had It. I'm going to list some things. You can tell us if you've had it with these things or if you'd hit it, like if you'd like to do them. Oh my God. Welcome to Had It or Hit It. I would hit it. I hit it every day, sometimes twice a day. So the first one is Had It or Hit It. Juicy celebrity gossip or a juicy political scandal.

I kind of hit it, I have to be honest. Totally. I totally will hit it. I love a good... I like political more than Hollywood. I like a good, you know, like Trump with the hooker. That was juicy. I mean, the porn star. Yeah, I was totally into that. I mean, I wanted to know all the salacious details. Had it or hit it? You live in New York City, and so you probably experienced this a lot. Sidewalk hoggers. F and had it. Move. Move it. Okay. Okay.

Had it or hid it, cologne abuse. Cologne at all. My husband smells great with no cologne. Oh, that's nice. My husband, this may come as a surprise to you, the recovering addict, tends to abuse cologne as well. I almost said cocaine. Talk about a Freudian slip. Seriously. Cocaine and cologne. Okay. Had it or hid it,

Cap lock texts. Had it. Grandma, get it together. Why are you screaming? Exactly. Why are you screaming? I always, when I see something, a tweet or a text or an email, cap locks, I read it in my head like as though I'm yelling. Right. It is such a shout. Yes, I totally agree. Okay. Had it or hid it. People that I call busy braggers, and these are the people that when you run into them,

They just, it's a jet stream of telling you how busy they are. I hate that. I, here's the thing. I have to say had it, but I fear I still do it. Yeah.

I try not to, but I feel like I might be guilty. Don't worry, Terry. Half the shit we've had it with were the worst offenders. Total worst offenders. We're the two biggest yak mouse on the planet. Yeah, you can totally, you can, you know, you can weave in and out of these and change. You know, we're not going to hold your feet to the fire on anything. None of us are politicians. You know, it doesn't matter. And not that they give a shit either. Okay. No, they don't. All right. Had it or hid it. Starting a sentence with no offense.

I'm a therapist. So I've had it with that because here's the thing. Don't tell me not to be offended when I know the effing thing that's coming out of your mouth next is going to be offensive or you wouldn't have said no offense. Right. It's an advertisement. Exactly. Or when they say it with all due respect, you know that they're saying I have no respect with what I'm about to say. Somebody wrote, we get a kick since we've done this podcast once.

Kylie, our producer, puts a bunch of our clips on social media. So we get a lot of praise and a lot of people are so sweet and so supportive, but you always get the skunks at the garden party. So the other day on YouTube, somebody wrote, this is hilarious. I think she's since taken it down because I tried to find it before we did this. But she started off, I mean this in the most respectful way because I love Jen and Pump so much. But has anyone noticed that Jen looks like a possum in designer clothes? Possum? I mean, it's...

Which is so ridiculous. Literally denying, starting it out like, I mean this with the most respect, but she looks like a rodent. That's all respect, all love. I feel the love right now. Right. Terry, I have to tell you when your book comes out, you have to send us a copy. We will buy it because we always want to support women. And I think what you're covering, this is a big,

I mean, this is... She is the walking embodiment of...

of high functioning codependency. When you said that it was like everything in me lit up and then immediately turned to her like a heat seeking missile. I was like, Oh my God, she just completely diagnosed you before you opened your mouth. Brilliant. Terry, we cannot thank you enough. We definitely value and appreciate so much what the therapeutic process has done for us and,

and for our friends and for our families. And I love the work that you're doing. And we can't thank you enough for swinging by the podcast. Do you want to tell our listener how to find you and about your book? Sure. I want to also tell your listeners that if they want to know about their own boundary baseline, like are you more of a pushover or a peacekeeper or an ice queen? I created a quiz. It's just 13 easy questions. Go to boundaryquiz.com.

And then you'll get a whole diagnosis from me with a video telling you like what your style is and how to get better. So there's that boundary quiz.com. Okay. People can find me at Terry cole.com. I mostly hang out on Instagram. I have a podcast called the Terry Cole show as well. I've got a YouTube channel. I put out two episodes a week. So there's tons and tons of free content and this book, the book just actually, this book just turned two.

And so you guys can pre-order the paperback. It's coming out in like three weeks, I think, or just go to boundarybossbook.com. And there's all kinds of bonuses that go along with the book. So the book is sold everywhere. Fine books are sold.

Excellent. I'm going to go do the quiz right now. Yeah, we'll do the quiz. I want to do it. When your episode comes out, we'll put the results of our quiz on social and tag you. Terri, this has been- Thank you so much. So interesting. We thank you so much and we wish you the best of luck with your book and we cannot wait to read it. Thank you so much for having me, you guys. Yes. Thanks, Terri. Wow. That was so fun. Amazing. Very insightful.

God, it's bad, isn't it? You have a label. I mean, every single, like I take every box. It's not like nine out of 10. But God, I love. So listener, I know that wasn't as like whippersnappy funny, but a big part of my and Pump's life has been trying to not be so fucked up. Yeah.

Self-improvement at a very basic level. Yes. Just trying not to be stage five fucked up. Yes. We are attempting to not be so fucked up. And so from time to time, we want to have therapists on because it's a part of our life. And believe it or not, despite all this fucking bitching, we do try to become better people. Yeah.

We're just hiding it well. Yes. And so I think there's a lot of insight in what she had to say. And I think the benefits of mental health are phenomenal. And I love that she has all of this stuff that you can access online, where if you can't afford a therapist, that you can go online and access a lot of material that can help you grow as a person. No, it's great. It's a great resource. I mean, despite, don't get it twisted, listener. This show is not just about

Straight up five star shit talk. The purpose of the shit talk is to get it off your chest so that you're not an asshole to people. Right. Get it off your chest with your friends so that you can go out into the world and be healthy, wealthy and wise. That's right. All of those things. All of those things. Listener, we need you to do some stuff for us.

write a review on Apple, rate on Apple, join us on Patreon. The DMs of the, I've had it to the IG. Yes, that. There's just a lot of shit y'all need to do. And all that stuff helps us. So just do all that shit. And obviously we need all the help we can get.

As evidenced by having the psychotherapist on our show. Right. We need help. We need help. Yeah, she kind of pegged us. She did. Thanks, listener. We will see you next Tuesday. I'll tell you what I've had it with. Let's hear it.

I'm John Glover. Emmy Award winning researcher John Glover and I'm Marissa Pinson. Critically unacclaimed TV writer Marissa Pinson. And we're the hosts of the new podcast On Brand with John and Marissa. Join us every week for an exploration of the world's most interesting and iconic brands like Walmart. Do they still have

the old people who say welcome to Walmart. No, they got rid of them. So you just want more old people in the store? I want every staff member to be over 90. And Heinz. Heinz. Heinz. I say Heinz like I'm a German dictator. And while you learn about these legendary brands, you'll also learn a bit about us. Hey John, do you still sleep in shoes?

There's probably, I would say probably three times a year I fall asleep in shoes. You told me the thing that you should never look under a Costco chicken. Well, I don't think you should ever look under a chicken. So tune in every Wednesday for a brand new episode of On Brand with John and Marissa. Available May 24th wherever you get your podcasts. See you there.