EPISODE 4: Riley Gaines on Advocating for Fairness in Women's Sports
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You have a daughter. I have a younger sister. I've been married for two years. I can only hope to have a daughter of my own one day. Right? That's why we fight. We have somebody on tonight who is probably supposed to be studying to do root canals.

Instead, she's touring the country, speaking to young people about this crazy country we live in right now. We have Riley Gaines, Tennessee's own. Let's go. Thank you. Thank you so much. Thank you for coming. Let me just start by saying I don't know how much studying I ever did. So that's a stretch. You're not going to be a dentist? Is that what you're saying? I mean, like an endodontist? That was the plan, but studying was never a part of the plan. Don't include that. You're that smart. Oh, I don't know about that.

I don't know about that. No, I'm thrilled to be on with you guys. I've been a huge fan for a long time, especially in these last couple months. Gosh, how long has that been now? A year? It's been about a year. Crazy. Are you a country music fan?

Forever. Oh, I thought you were going to say no. No. In the important question, are you a Jason Aldean fan? Of course I am. I remember the first time, truly, I heard a Jason Aldean song. I was in fifth grade and my older sister showed me. Oh, wow. Oh, no. I know. Did you have to say what grade? I know. I was in fifth grade. I remember exactly. Seriously, it sounds weird, but it was kind of like my first taste of country music, living in Nashville my whole life.

But it was Crazy Town. And my older sister showed me. And since then, I've been a fan. I didn't write that one. Me neither. Then that song sucks. Yeah. No, kidding, kidding. No, I'm a huge fan. I'm a huge fan of Jason. I'm a huge fan of his wife. She's wonderful. She's a fashion icon. Brittany, if you're watching, style my wardrobe, please. Huge fan of both of them. She's a fan of yours, believe me, too. Well, they're incredible. You know...

This has been a subject for me that has really hit close to home. Everything you stand for, like taking a stand for women in sports. And it sounds so crazy that we're here having a real conversation about this, like that this is happening to our women. It is. I have a hard time talking about it. Like on the bus this last week and I'm like, Kurt, how how is this happening?

Well, you don't think it's real. And, you know, kind of the reason we started this podcast, we had a little thing with our song that we wrote last year. What was that called? Try that in small town. You can download it. But, you know, we've talked about it a lot. And we said, it's really common sense, small town values, American values, small

And I feel like talking about this too, don't you ever just catch yourself going, isn't this common sense? Isn't this common sense? Every day I catch myself wondering that, thinking that, asking that. It's utter lunacy. I think Sarah Huckabee Sanders said it best when she was, I think she was giving the rebuttal or the response last year after State of the Union.

And she said, look, this is a battle of normal versus crazy now. And it's so true. That's really the point where we're at. It doesn't even feel like it's right versus left or even right versus wrong. I mean, this is normal versus crazy. Of course, the gender ideology movement. But a lot of these issues, cultural issues, what have you, that we're seeing plague this country. That's the direction that it's going. Yeah.

I don't know if I want to jump right into it, but it's just really interesting to me because you've been to a lot of places, you've testified in front of a lot of people, and you give your side of the story. What do you hear in response? I'm trying to figure out how somebody rebuts this.

There's not a lot they can say. Speaking to events recently, of course, we saw the national championship basketball game, the women's game. Incredible, right? Absolutely. You're wearing your Iowa shirt. I'm from Des Moines. There you go. So I've been a Caitlin Clark fan forever. Well, condolences. And she brought so many eyes to the... Totally. Is she a woman?

She is. She's a real woman. She is. Absolutely is. She's amazing. Well, we saw that recently. And of course, Dawn Staley, the USC basketball coach. Yeah. She came out the day before whenever saying, you know, and a reporter from Outkick asked her, hey, do you believe that males who identify as a woman should be able to play in women's basketball? She straight up said yes to this.

To which I took to my social media to kind of spar with this, saying, hey, no one would know who you are if you weren't entitled to Title IX, the federal law that gave you equal opportunity. You wouldn't be a Hall of Famer. So what are you talking about? You're pulling up the ladder behind you. And her response was she just blocked me entirely. That's the response. It's people who can't.

They can't defend their position. Same thing with the NCAA. Charlie Baker, President Baker. There is no response there. What do you think her players... What do you think the reaction was from the players? They haven't spoken. What are they thinking? It's a great point because, I mean, she's a great coach. Of course. 109-3 over three seasons is great. She's fantastic. But that's my question is...

What do her girls think when you say, oh, I think it's okay, and I'd take a man on this team, take your spot, let him undress in front of you in the locker room. Right? Is she not thinking about that before she talks? I guess she's not. I like, you know, there's so many things that you say that,

that light because you're such a strong competitor, a strong woman, a strong voice, an advocate. And when you're talking about pulling up the ladder behind me, you're talking about a retired player, now coach, and some other athletes that are retired. And their honors and all their glory and stats are already in the book. So they're set.

Of course. They're good. And now, like you just said, they just pull the ladder up behind them. And I thought that was just a very profound. Well, same thing with Megan Rapinoe, who she fought for women and she fought for equal pay. And she says that was her greatest achievement in her entire soccer career.

And now, of course, issuing statements, saying different things, chastising that one young girl. I think she's 20 years old, who has now taken over her number, number 13, for reposting a TikTok of a person who had transitioned and detransitioned after coming to Christ. This, I believe her name's, her last name's Corbin, reposted this video. And Megan Rapinoe took to her Instagram to be a total bully, saying that,

She's ashamed that she's wearing her jersey number, all this stuff. Oh my gosh, I didn't even hear this story. Yeah. But again, Sue Bird, Billie Jean King. This is who we have to accredit Title IX to. Played in the Battle of the Sexes and she won and it was this huge feat for women. She is now actively fighting for male inclusion in women's sports and women's spaces. Does it feel like some of the people that speak most strongly, like Megan and stuff, they don't have daughters. No. And they can't.

It scares me to death. I have a young daughter, soon to be 13, who's in sports and in school. I can't imagine her being forced to change in a locker room. But you had to go through this. And are we not even taking into account the damage that's being done there? Like it's... Well, like you're saying, you're a father. You all have daughters. I don't know. I just have a son. But we're her at the dad's, right? It's like...

come into the rescue of their daughters in this situation. I think they're trying. I just think, I think it's, what's happening, it still seems crazy to me that we're having this conversation. To your point about the locker room stuff, in my experience, of course, competing against a man, a six foot four man at that, who...

by no means looked womanly, okay? This is a man who grew out his hair. What you said on Rogan killed me. Like a six foot four man in a woman's bathing suit with a bulge. He gives a new meaning to swim meet. Oh, gosh. Oh, gosh.

In a rudder. That's perfect. Wow, did you come up with that beforehand? Because that is good. Thank you. But in that same, when you did have that statement, it was also, you're talking about at the national championship, and there were eight competitors, right? And two were trans athletes, and one was Leah, and the other was Izzy, then Isaiah? Isaac. Isaac, right? And so you had said, yeah, the competitors, when they're out there, you have Leah out there, but then you also have...

Isaac out there with a spio and nothing here. Right. So yeah, full on. Those weren't those aren't moves. No, that's not a guy who has a lot of extra weight up here. Those are a lot of people don't they don't realize because of course the media is the media and they haven't touched on this piece, but exactly like you said,

I would say most people who have followed this, they know who Leah Thomas is, right? They know Leah Thomas is actually Will Thomas and swam three years on the men's team at UPenn before deciding to switch to the women's team where at best he was mediocre. That's generous, okay? Ranked 554th or whatever in the nation the year prior competing against the men to 12 months later, not even just number one in the entire country of women.

Most people know this, but what they don't understand is what you just said.

that we had another athlete who was transitioning at that meet. But this athlete is a female who began to self-identify as a man who we were told we fully had to treat as a man. We had to go to training to learn how to use the correct pronouns. I mean, picture this, a 21-year-old senior in college where they bring in an outside professional, whatever that means,

who teaches us how to use pronouns. And if we don't pass the training, I mean, we had to re-go through it if we didn't pass. Yeah, and that's the kind of training you're willing to spend your time on while you're trying to win a national championship. And in school and having, you know, social life. At any point did you go, I'm done with this. I'm quitting. I'm out. I'm not going to pretend anymore. You don't want to let them win that way. That's what I thought at the time. Yeah. I've, of course, over these past, what, two years or so, I've grown...

I've matured. I've become wiser. Maybe that's a good word. I don't feel very wise. I don't say anything profound. Oh, you do. Oh, stop. Well, what you... Not to interrupt, but I don't know if you know how much you've done. I mean, especially to the young girls out there. 100%. You give them someone to look at and say, I can stand my ground too. Totally. And that's...

It means so much. A hundred percent. That's what I want to say to you. And it might be, uh, you might feel like you're in the middle of the fight and it's probably the same old, same old a lot for you, but you are having an enormous impact on women and girls now because you got this podcast, right? And then it's aimed towards girls. And that's just, please don't ever think that you're,

You know, that it's just becoming another day of having to talk about this. Because someday, somebody might not know about it. The next day, they do because of you. Well, and I'll say it until I'm blue in the face. Yeah. This is certainly a hill I'm willing to die on. And again, it's much bigger than me. I'm done competing. Yeah, right. So it's quite literally not about me, at least in the sports aspect of things. But...

you have a daughter i have a younger sister i've been married for two years i can only hope to have a daughter of my own one day right that's why we fight um and if this isn't a hill you're willing to die on gosh then what is because the premise of this entire the gender ideology movement as a whole is that we're denying of course biblical truth

but objective truth, like biological reality. We're being asked to deny. And the most basic of truths like that, man and woman, the sheer essence of humanity. Hate to break it to you, you, you, and you.

and myself, we're all here for men and women. And the people who are leading this country in the White House, stemming from the very tippy top, are telling us that that's just a social construct. Yeah. And then, but it's not just, you know, you're advocating, you know, from the athlete standpoint, the protection of women, women's sports and the protection physically of women. Right. So it's not that, you

you know, just coming after transgender people in general, it's, this isn't biologically fair. That's, that's what we're saying, you know, and so that your, your interview on your podcast, uh, games for girls, um, you had Caitlin Jenner on there, right? Of course. And she's also an advocate. He, so she, yes, not,

Not a she. I'm not pretending. And it's not Leah, it's Will. But did you, like, it seemed like y'all got along because it was a good conversation. It was great info. He's a great ally. He's become a great friend. Yeah.

I have told him, look, I'm not calling you she either. But he says, look, I don't need you to affirm me. I did this to affirm myself. And if everyone could just kind of have that mindset about it, right? I don't have to necessarily participate or support this kind of

or whatever you want to call it, dysphoria that you're experiencing, we would be in a much better place as a whole of society if people could understand it just like that. I'm doing this for me. I don't want to infringe upon you. I don't want to use your taxpayer dollars. This is what I do behind closed doors, whatever. But he's a wonderful friend, a great ally, and he knows...

And his perspective is, of course, valuable given the fact, one, that he's transitioning or has transitioned, but two, an elite athlete. He knows competing. At one point in time, maybe y'all were alive. I wasn't alive. We were. Very much alive. Maybe y'all were alive. When he was on the Wheaties box. When he was on the Wheaties box. We ate the Wheaties. We really ate the Wheaties. You know what's great? Well, that's still not even a thought for the next, like, 20 years. I got to be honest with you. You know, I watched –

Caitlyn Jenner's thing on Netflix. It was a documentary. Amazing, you know, athlete, amazing athlete, you know, but I think most people like us just live and let live. Like if you're, if you're going through this and what we're talking about is like common sense, letting a man take advantage of a woman's sport to benefit themselves. Don't infringe on my rights, which is exactly what, because Leah Thomas, unless I'm wrong, um,

was also dating women at this time of competing. So what are we doing here? Let's call it what it is. Sexual harassment in the locker room, right? Five years ago,

A man walks into a woman's locker room, to your point, still active with women, still dating women, walks into the women's locker room, disrobes entirely, fully exposed, fully intact, all that, where we're non-consensually being exploited. A DA would follow this man into the locker room,

Pull him out and he'd be arrested for voyeurism and decent exposure, sexual harassment, whatever it is. But now not only is it allowed, it's like celebrated. Yeah. It really is. Leah Thomas, after all of this, each university gets to nominate one female athlete for NCAA Woman of the Year, which is the most prestigious honor you could win as a collegiate female athlete. And so...

University of Kentucky, they nominated me, which I was so honored by this because, of course, it encompasses your athletic achievement, but also your academic success, which I was the SEC Scholar Athlete of the Year, did some pretty incredible things academically, and

but also your community service, which was a big passion of mine in college and of course even still now. That was the SEC Community Service Leader of the Year. I won the highest humanitarian award that you could win of all the entire student body, not just athletes, the entire student body at Kentucky. So I took a lot of pride in those things. And so when I was nominated for this award,

I was so honored. We had Abby Steiner, who's breaking world records in track and field. We had the number one WNBA draft pick from University of Kentucky. We had a national championship rifle team, national championship volleyball team. But they chose me. So I was so honored by this. Until the NCAA released a full list of the nominees.

And Leah Thomas was who University of Pennsylvania had chosen. I know. I know. I know. I typically really just try and say Thomas is what I try and say. That's a good thing to do. Just Thomas. Because my thing is like, okay, people could change their name legally on a birth certificate, whatever. You cannot change your sex. You can't change your chromosomes. No. You have a Y or you have two Xs. Boom. But anyways, he was nominated for this Instable A Woman of the Year, which...

immediately devalued the award to me entirely. I didn't even want the stupid thing now. Meaningless. But all that to say they celebrated it. But one more point about this incivility woman of the year thing and to speak to how this really has become almost this infringement on our, well, certainly this infringement on our First Amendment rights because at this point,

banquet or or really it was this conference type thing that the NCAA hosts every year where they it's like a week-long thing all the athletic directors come in all the presidents all the chancellors of all the universities this is where they set their rules for the year and they go over all kinds of different mumbo jumbo whatever and so but it's also where they announced their NCAA woman of the year award and so of course I was invited to attend having been nominated and

So I decided I would go, but of course I was not going to go in support of the NCAA and what they were doing. They also had a big convention hall where, you know, companies and organizations could buy a booth and pass out pamphlets or whatever they wanted to do with their organization. So I figured, okay,

You know, what better way to get in front of these athletic directors than to buy a booth? I'm going to buy a booth. And so I applied to buy a booth with my name. Of course, Riley Gaines. I'd been outspoken at this point. Denied. So I'm like, that's weird. I'm trying to give you guys money. I know the NCAA doesn't turn away money. Applied again with my same name. Denied. Came up with an alias. Applied. And they're like, of course, we'll take your $2,000. But I get in there.

Every single athletic director who walked by, again, of every university, thank you for doing what you're doing. Keep going. Of course, whispering, winking at me from across the way. I was passing out little bracelets of Title IX and just sharing to anyone who would listen about what happened. And every single one said, keep going. Thank you. In the first 60 or so, I was like, this is awesome. And then I began to naturally feel frustrated by this.

What's the discrepancy? I was told the higher-ups didn't agree, but that's not what I'm seeing. And so I began asking these athletic directors, okay, that's great, you agree. Would you be willing to put your name to it? Oh, no. You see, I have a family to feed. I can't lose my job. We don't want to be sued, whatever their excuse was, and would quickly turn and walk away. Even the president of the NCAA at the time was Mark Emmert.

who had released a public statement at this point, a few days prior to the meet or a few days after that national championships, where he said he unequivocally stood in his decision to allow Leah Thomas to swim with the women because it was based in evolving science is what he says. But privately, I know. Evolving? You didn't know science evolved? Bigot. But privately at this conference,

I see him and he says, keep going, keep fighting. As if he's not the one that I'm fighting. So all of that to show that it's celebrated. Back to the point of just showing you, not only is it allowed, it's celebrated. And again...

We have a weak need. Back to Dawn Saley. I don't think she believed that. I don't either. I was wondering the same thing. Did she just feel compelled like, I can't answer this because... I think she knew... She's afraid of losing her gig, man. She's a part of the community herself, right? I think she's a lesbian or married to a woman or whatever. Again, who cares? No, it's not. It's a sin, but you can lead a horse to the trough, can't make it drink.

Part of this community, I think she knew she had to be politically correct. Right. You had talked about it. It was so funny. You busted her so hard. You said, did you see how awkwardly she responded to that question? She drank her water. She kind of looked down. She goes, well, oh.

Yeah, I mean, oh, you realized the big one. Yeah. Went right for it. Such a controversial question. You know, and then finally she comes out with her answer. And, I mean, I was about as confident as Marine Jean-Pierre, the White House press secretary. Are we going there? Oh, wow. Like a body language expert, you know, like with her or with Dawn Staley. They'd put the head down and start blinking, you know.

oh i was about to say ajp when she started saying is the long everything i keep thinking somebody from the administration or somebody from the ncaa or some dude from uh impractical jokers is going to send out this big post and it says gotcha gotcha tell me what the dog's doing on y'all i feel like it was she had a chance to be a hero in that moment

If she just said, no, I don't support men playing women's sports, and she would have had her whole... You know what? Even if she gets fired, you know what? Most people are going to rally around her. Oh, gosh. 99% of her fan base would. But that's the difference. And that's the difference between you and Aldine taking a stand. It's not easy...

to take a stand when you know they're coming for you. Right. And it's hard to stand and take all the shots and be the one that everybody's pointing the hate at. That's the difference between her and like, and then like Riley and Aldine. We told Aldine you were coming on this week and he was so excited because there's a lot of similarities with how you guys approach things. And it's teaching everybody it's okay to,

To stand up when it's not easy to do that, that's what's hard. When it's not easy to stand up, that's when you really make a difference. Well, you know what I've realized? And I'm sure you guys have too. Yes, like the backlash is inevitable, right? You'll have people calling you names, most of the time through a screen on social media. You'll have the crazies, whatever it is.

But the support that I've received, tenfold, tenfold anything negative, which is not how I thought it was going to be. Yes, I knew most common sense, everyday Americans intuitively knew that at least the sports aspect was wrong. But what I didn't know was...

Was just how many I was fully conditioned to believe partially because of the different trainings and what we were told how we were told we would be received for saying this, we would lose friends, we would lose our scholarship, we would never get a job, all the different ways they really tried to like emotionally blackmail gaslight us into submission. I believed all that.

But it was so wrong to believe that. They want us to put this internal pressure on ourselves, which is exactly what Don Staley did. It's exactly what you see even...

than y'all space other country music singers doing who I guarantee you feel the same way as Jason Aldean. He's the only one that would do it. And they tried to kill it. But you realize, though, like you said. They're going to try to cancel you. But what was the response you guys got? Well, you realize. Yeah, when we got on tour, too, same thing with you. Like, all that noise is on the fringe. Of course.

It's all on the fringe. But the people that matter, it's like we see it. The middle of it, the heart of it is all...

On our side, on your side. It's just the noise from the fringe. And they're loud. And they've got the media. They've got the media. But that's not what matters the most. Of course. Well, then you have fools like Keith Olbermann. Oh, I couldn't wait to get to this. Oh, my God. Yes. I got it. Y'all can talk about him because I can't stand that son of a bitch. Look, my motto. Language. My motto, this whole...

that I have developed this platform and really been thrust into this position is don't punch down. People, they look for attention on social media. That's what they're craving. And so I don't give it to them. I don't really respond to any of the negative stuff. But I, for some reason, could not help myself when it came to Keevil. It's that face. It's the face. It's the face.

It's his screaming. It's the way he's senile. It's the way I think he lives in his mom's basement. It's the way he's never been able to keep a job. I'm like, I'm so glad. I'm so glad you brought this up because he, you know, what's amazing. You know, he said you sucked at swimming. You know, this is my public call. 12 time all American challenging him to a race. Yeah. 12 time all American five time SEC champion.

SEC record holder. I mean, you're terrible at swimming. Well, your response was great on Twitter. You know, amazing. But again, no kids, by the way, no daughters, no, nothing to relate this to. So no, you know, you just suck at swimming and you're stupid. He's got a bunch of dogs, apparently that he would sometimes have to internal sources at ESPN told me this. He would sometimes he couldn't do his show or would have to do a show from a different place because he would need to be home with his dogs.

He's a grown man. Like a grown man. He's probably got a cat. No, one of these days we're going to get him on here. Not that there's anything wrong with that. No. At least we're stopping him. It would be awesome to have somebody like him on here.

Not him. You can't. That's one of those. But again, it goes back to they don't, they won't, they won't debate. No, they won't. Right. That's my next point. Even when I was, a few weeks ago, I was testifying before Congress. Basically, it was a hearing surrounding Title IX, urging the Biden administration to halt with their illegal administrative rewrite of Title IX, which I'll just brief by saying it is unfathomable to me that a 23-year-old

college recent college graduate college swimmer at that has to go to DC, the swamp sit in front of Congress, the beating heart of the American Republic and explain to them that men and women are different. And then to be on the other side of that table and watch as they have these like super confused looks on their faces. But that's what I was there doing. Uh, and the ranking member of the committee, the subcommittee, uh,

Her name is Representative Lee. She's a Democrat from Pennsylvania. The first words out of her mouth in her opening monologue, she says, I can't believe that I'm forced to sit here and listen to this transphobic bigotry. And my heart broke in that moment, really. A sitting member of Congress resorts

To name-calling? Doesn't try to dissuade from my stance with facts or logic or reasoning or common sense or lived experience or science. What happened to follow the science? No, instead resorts to name-calling. And so, of course, it's my turn to read my testimony. I read it. I didn't even mean to say this last sentence. It just accidentally came out of my mouth. Entirely ad-lib. But I looked at her and I said, Representative Lee...

If my testimony makes me transphobic, then understand by your own logic, your opening monologue makes you a misogynist. Yes. Which... Oh, no. You got it. It was so good. It sent the hearing into a tailspin. Yeah. It was so funny. I literally don't think she had ever heard the word misogynist used in a sentence before.

Yeah, they had somebody come whisper in her ear. No, well, her staff is running over. Her council's running over. They're pulling out their phones. Google all. What is it? What did she just call me? I literally think they looked up the definition. Was that racist? Was that racist? And about 60 seconds later, she raises her hand and she says, I want her words removed from the record on the grounds of engaging in personalities, which...

Marjorie Taylor Greene was in this hearing. And so she buzzes in and she says, I would call a man posing as a woman, someone who's engaging in personalities. And then it turns into like the Jerry Springer show. I'm like, Oh God, what have I done? There's like people jumping over tables.

But equally as good as like the verbal beatdown with AOC. Oh, gosh. That was amazing. In fact, she was on you so hard and she thought she was so smart this one time. This one time she thought she was on it and she really had a point and you just nailed it. They never do. Yeah. Can you go back just that moment? She tried to take this argument into, again, the hearing setting is horrible.

Of course, you're in front of a whole panel of... It was the Oversigned Accountability Committee. So you're over a whole panel of...

members of Congress, both Democrats and Republicans, and they have an opportunity to ask you questions. They can direct their question where they want. Each person has five minutes. They can go back through after everyone's gone, whatever. There was this hearing, there was three Republican witnesses and two Democrats. I was sat next to that. One of the Democrat witnesses was the president of the National Women's Law Center, an

And in her testimony, she said that women should just learn how to lose more gracefully to men. You're kidding. See this. I need a drink. This doesn't even sound real. National Women's Lawsoner. It doesn't sound real. It sounds like we're making it up. Because they are. And again, why they're misogynist. And my kind of thought process there was if my stance is immediately deemed anti-trans, then.

Which, I'll be very frank, my stance is pro-woman. I'm standing for something. I'm standing for women. I'm not standing against anything. But if being pro-woman is immediately deemed anti-trans, then wouldn't being pro-trans inherently be anti-woman? And would we call someone who's anti-woman? We call them a misogynist. But anyways, back to AOC, she tried to relate this to abortion. I'm like, look, this has nothing to do with...

We're talking about the destruction of women's rights. It's because they know it's ridiculous, so they try to move it around. Again, they can't defend. She didn't turn it into a racial thing. That was probably next. That was coming. Yeah, she ran out of time. That was next. Yeah, her five minutes. They always seem to take it there.

for sure. But you were talking about that most places you're received well and I know that's true but I really want to go. I was so shocked especially at the video the San Francisco University you went to it's public right? It's not a private but university you were asked to come speak there and so you're invited guests and everything and

And it turned ugly very quickly. You did get to speak, right? I did. I did. Yeah, no, that was crazy. That was in this whole experience. That's...

There's been several times where I've been fearful, I guess, and, you know, for my own safety, really. I've had people show up at my house. I've had people call around, find out which hotel I'm staying at, come and stake outside my hotel room. I mean, all kinds of... I can't believe you went to San Francisco. That was my first mistake. I can't believe you did. Going to... And that place is a dystopia. But that was, again, seeing that, like...

That's what we need. That's the, that's ground zero. I mean, for a lot of this, this is the place that needs to hear it. This is ground zero. And you went there and it, again, it's like, it's not easy to do what you're doing.

And you're going to put yourself in those positions. But it means so much. Not to keep saying that, but no one else is doing it. They're afraid to be solved the other night. You know, they're afraid. People are afraid to speak. And that's... Well, and you kind of see why. I mean, the video of you there and the people chasing you. Yeah. I mean, I was scared. What was the time for you after it's already happened and I know that you're safe and you're coming to do the podcast tonight? I know you're safe. But I was scared for you in that moment because it was... Yeah.

It wasn't too far after the whole Leah Thomas thing. No. Will. His name's Will. I love this guy. So it was in April. It was a year ago is when it was. And so I went to San Francisco State University. One of the local turning point chapter, the university's turning point chapter asked me to come out there. And that's been a big...

Push of mine is to get on college campuses again. That's who needs to hear it engaging the youth people my age Letting them know that you're not a criminal if you're a conservative or a christian not that this issue should be polarized in that way But really just trying to equip and inspire and engage the youth Um, so I went to san francisco state university um I

got to speak to the room. It was a room full of people who hated me, which was interesting. But again, I don't care who needs to hear it. They have every right to be there. They protested. They had their signs. They wrote all over their bodies in Sharpie saying my rhetoric was killing them, blah, blah, blah. In fairness, I mean, they didn't hate you, the ones inside. They didn't hate you as bad as the ones outside. Exactly. In fairness to them. No, go on. Wow. They're so tolerant. Put that right in the back of the way for us. A little ray of sunshine there.

But you're exactly right, because actually they joined in, so they all hated me equally. They were part of the ploy. Then it's mob. Yeah. No, really. After I delivered my speech, a group of protesters from the outside, which I could hear them the entire time I was talking. It started outside. I heard them march over outside the building, chanting things like,

trans rights or human rights gradually got closer and closer and closer until at one point you know middle of my speech getting to towards the end of my talk um they're right outside the door and i could hear them one side of the hallway would yell trans rights are under attack the other side of the hallway would yell back what do we do we fight back and they would go and go and go oh gosh

But the last five minutes of my speech, it got quiet out there. So I figured they left. They went home. They got their check, what they came there to do. And so, of course, it was unnerving, but I was fine. But after I finished speaking to the room, the group of protesters inside the room, they opened up the door and the protesters outside the room rushed in.

That's when they turn the lights off at the back of the room. They rushed to the front, which is where it was night by that time. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Right. Wow. Yeah. Probably nine o'clock, eight o'clock, something at this point. Uh,

And they totally ambushed me. I'm talking, I'm being pushed, I'm being shoved, I'm being punched in the face by these men. A couple times by a guy. Men who were wearing dresses, which fortunately for me, their punches really don't hurt that bad. Right. But ultimately, these protesters, they ended up holding me for ransom for four hours, again, through the middle of the night, demanding that if I wanted to make it home to see my family safely again, I had to pay them money.

And so the dean of students, again, middle of the night, the dean of students shows up and starts negotiating with the students how much I owe each of them. This doesn't sound real. This doesn't sound right. No, it's exactly. Again, an actual ransom ransom.

You know what the price they agreed upon was? $10 each. Which pisses me off because I think I'm worth more than $10. You're like, make it $20. Make me feel good. I know. I'm like, you could have at least boosted my ego a little bit. That's only a half hour work in California. I know. I think you could even get me out of bed. There was a lot of them. The minimum wage is $20. Totally. Totally. But you might be wondering, okay, well, where are the police? It's San Francisco. Well, there are any police. The police are being held for ransom with me.

I'm looking at the officers in the four hours we're in this room. Pretty sure we're being held against our will. Pretty sure we call that kidnapping. Isn't there something you can do? Ransom. To which they said no. They said there's nothing we can do or else, you know, we're not allowed to be seen as anything other than an ally to this community or else we'll lose our jobs. That's what they said point blank to you. The funniest part is eventually I get out. By the grace of God, I get out.

The next day, the university sent out a, it was actually the vice president of student affairs. Her name is Dr. Jamila Moore. She sent out a university-wide email to the entire student body, to all professors and faculty members. And in this email, she said, we are so sorry.

proud of our brave students for handling Riley Gaines in the manner that they did. We know how deeply traumatic her presence is on this campus. And so here's some counseling resources for you guys. Take the day off of school. Just know we see you. We hear you. Oh, totally. We love you. We stand with you. Nowhere in there did it condemn violence, violence against women for that matter. Nowhere in there did it say we uphold our first amendment rights and the freedom of speech. What's going on? But that's, but yes, that's San Francisco, but

Guys, that's everywhere. People think, oh, we live in Tennessee. Forget it. It's everywhere. Truly. I've seen it everywhere. So am I mistaken on this or did the Wisconsin governor April 2nd recently... He sure did. Yeah. He sure did. What did he do? He...

the ban on transgender athletes competing. So it's fully allowed. He didn't get anyone's back. That's why I don't get. So this isn't just San Francisco like we're talking about. That's what we're talking about. Right. This is Wisconsin. This is, you know. Well, even...

Even you look at he's a Democrat, Democrat. Oh, yeah. But even Republican governors, Governor Cox in Utah vetoed it. Governor DeWine in Ohio vetoed it. Governor. I mean, there's there's a plethora now of Republican governors who have taken decisive action and said no. So what do you think that's coming from?

Well, looking at Governor DeWine in Ohio, which I think this is the case across politics in general, and I can speak to this definitely in Tennessee, but in Ohio, Governor DeWine, he received a few days before $40,000 from these hospitals that perform these surgeries. They're all compromised. Money and power.

That's what it's about. Truly, this whole movement is entirely... It's really not red versus blue. It is green. That's what these people follow. Whether it's the medicalization side of things, even again, right here in Nashville, you look at Vanderbilt, this video got leaked of the head of their transgender care clinic or whatever here said, guys...

Forget abortion. This is so much better. This is a cash cow. We can make $70,000 to $100,000 per patient. They're a lifelong patient. This is awesome. That's right here. No, because like you're saying, you keep...

You talk to everybody. It seems like you're always preaching to the choir. It's like, yeah, everybody agrees with this. But then somehow it's over here. It's in the money, man. It's in the money. Yeah. And on the on the sports side, you do have a you did file a lawsuit against NCAA, didn't you? I did. Which I have two words for you on that.

I want to hear them. Thank you. I mean, they need to be sued all the time. I mean, totally huge, huge sports fan and the way they just, everything they do just seems emphatically wrong because it is again, because they're weak need and spineless and morally bankrupt. But I'll tell you, I, for the longest time,

I mean, it was obvious to me what they did, which is explicitly violate Title IX, which of course is, again, the federal law that prevents discrimination on the basis of sex on campuses or programs that receive educational or federal funding.

which the university system applies to. And so I'm thinking to myself, having, of course, I'm not a lawyer, I'm not an attorney, I didn't, I had a minor in health law, but, you know, I'm thinking, okay, well, maybe there's some loophole here that I don't understand that allowed them to get away with this. No, they just explicitly and directly violated the law. And so I'm thinking to myself,

Someone needs to sue them. It's what the other side does so well, right? They threaten a lawsuit. They pursue these lawsuits like no one's business because, again, they're well-funded. They can. You have the ACLU, all these crazy groups, the National Women's Law Center who fund these things. And so I thought someone should sue them.

And then it's like God tapping on my shoulder. He's like, Riley, it's you. You should sue them. It's you again. Sorry. And so myself and 15 other athletes signed on to this lawsuit. Of course, 15 other athletes who have been adversely affected at the hands of the NCAA and these policies, because, again, their most basic duty, the NCAA,

is to provide equal opportunity to provide safety in sports and to provide privacy in areas i'm addressing and they failed and continue to fail on every account of that uh so we officially filed and served them with this lawsuit we are in the 11th district courts which is which is a good district so we're like the georgia florida alabama area bro time sdc there we go are there are

Like women athletes out there that are for this are like, yes, we are for this. For the lawsuit and such? I mean, not the lawsuit, but agree with like, you know, Aaliyah Thomas competing. Yeah, bring him in.

Do you know anyone who says, yes, they should compete? I mean, is that – Until they get their ass handed to them. Truly, there's not a ton who have been outwardly outspoken. Again, you have the likes of Sue Bird. You have the likes of Megan Rapinoe. You have the likes of some people in prominence like that, Alex Morgan even. A lot of the U.S. women's national soccer team, they're so far gone. Maybe like on the cause level. Like when you're – I can't imagine the support you get, though.

Oh, gosh. You guys have no idea. I mean, I can't even imagine. The amount of, I mean, renowned athletes who you and I, both male and female, we all know, who message me privately, of course, and say, thank you. Something like, I have a daughter, or their own reason why this matters to them. But then they'll follow up by saying,

You keep going. You keep taking the arrows. I know. Why won't they join the team? I have sponsorships. Very similar to us. Very similar to us. All Jason's friends and other artists were like, way to go. Way to go.

Going to get your back over the text. They won't post anything socially, but they'll privately, hey, way to go. They won't put it out there, way to go. We got you guys back. I see Parker McCollum sometimes putting some stuff out there. So props to him for that. But other than that,

Cowards. We've lost, I know I have, live gigs and stuff doing corporate writers rounds. People won't hire us because of that song. But the thing is, every single person in that crowd, in the audience, wants to hear it. It's the powers that be that don't want to take a chance. Well, and then sometimes you can tell them the story. And like when you go and speak intelligently, you know, about your mission and what you're trying to do is for the protection of women's sports and women in general. But

like, you know, talking about if you go to play an event, when we get the time to tell the story of how the song came to be. It was from the protection of people. We just hated people getting punched on the sidewalk. We hated that. We hated old ladies getting carjacked. That makes you the enemy. Right. No, it's worse. Those things make us racist. Why are these issues? Why are these issues? People burning flags and sucker punching. So, you know, but anyway. I've heard you talk about...

And you're a woman of God. You have a lot of faith. I assume there was times where you asked God, is this my path? You have no idea. I don't really, now that I look back at it, my understanding at the time was that God calls people who are prepared and he'll, you know, he calls those who are equipped to

But me, understand, I never took a government course, which is kind of scary looking back on it. I never took, I took history in high school, ninth grade history. That's the extent of my history knowledge. I knew we had three branches of government. I didn't know what they did. But I realized, honestly, pretty quickly, early on, that I was wrong to believe that God calls the equipped. He certainly equips the called. And if he brings you to it, he'll bring you through it. And you can see examples of that throughout the Bible. If you look at...

Moses, right, who led the Israelites out with Aaron and his staff. Or if you're looking at Joshua, who he promised a victory over the Canaanites. Or Esther, before she was brought before the king. None of these people were prepared for those scenarios. And there's a plethora of examples. And after reading scripture, studying the word, of course through prayer, talking to those around me, I understand that I just had a pretty, I mean I was just ill-informed as to how

He mysteriously worked. In every conversation I've had, in every interaction I've had, they have never gnashed their teeth and reared their heads back more than they do when you talk about Christ. Oh, yeah. Makes them cringe. That's the truth. And there's a reason. It's because this is their new religion. This whole thing is a spiritual battle. The whole thing. Everything that we're dealing with, that you're dealing with.

Well, Paul tells us. Yes. He warns us that these spiritual battles will intensify and we'll reach a point in Acts and Romans and different places. He says this where bitter is seen as sweet, dark is seen as light, and evil is seen as moral. It's undeniable that that's not where we're at now. And look, that's not me saying that trans people are evil. No, I don't think that. But what I do think is evil, what I'm certain is evil, is deceit.

manipulation and affirming lies and delusions yes who's the father of lies who moves in darkness yeah God's opposition so it's very clear to me we've been have a little church up in here I know don't even get me started I you know go back to your faith and stuff go back to your upbringing because I know you come from a family of athletes right I do I mean all over but

Mother, father, uncles, right? Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. All born and bred right here in Old Hickory. It's that Old Hickory water. But, yes, my dad was an NFL player. My mom, she played Division I softball. My oldest sister played softball. She went to Ole Miss. My brother's in college playing football now.

All my dad's brothers played in the league. God, that's unbelievable. One of them just had, well, he played 12 plus years with the Seahawks and all over, but he just had today another back surgery because he's battered. Well, how did they all keep their cool when you were going through all this stuff? Well, they didn't. Well, I honestly accredit so much of my leadership skills to my parents because when I called my dad,

Keep in mind, we weren't forewarned we would be sharing a locker room with this man. So the first time I became aware that we were... Sorry to interrupt you. How is that even legal? How can you... You had no idea? Until he came in? Until we were in there undressing. Wait a minute. How's that even... They got around it by making the locker rooms. They changed the verbiage to making the locker rooms unisex. Which, my first thought when I... Okay, so...

I'll very briefly set the scene and come back to that part where, um, assuming locker room is not a place of modesty. First and foremost, these suits that you put on these, your racing suits, it takes about 20 minutes to really poke and prod yourself into these suits. They're paper thin, they're skin tight, 20 minutes of which you're fully, of course, undressed. Um, and,

So the first time that we were aware this was the situation was when we were putting these suits on and he walks in, strips down. I immediately left the locker room and one, I went up to one of the officials on the pool deck and I asked him just what you said. I said, look, I'm going to put these suits on.

Forget the competition. I'm not asking about that right now. I'm speaking specifically to the locker room. How is he allowed to be in there? To which he so nonchalantly responded back with, oh, we actually got around this by making the locker rooms unisex, which my first thought, and again, the first thing that I said,

Was you realize by admitting you had to change the rules, you're admitting that you don't really believe that he's a woman. Because if you did, you would have had to change the rules. You know he's not a woman. He's not a woman. And the other thing that you said was that any man could walk in. Any man. Any coach. Any pervert. Telly could just walk right in there.

But then this is when I... You could have too. I wasn't there. You were there. This is when I called my dad and I told him... You called him from the locker room? As soon as I had... I got to know what the dad, because the dad in me, I'm like... Oh yeah, I'm sure. Oh my God, live it. As soon as I left the pool deck, I called my dad and I said... Because he was, of course, this meet was at Georgia Tech. So he was there watching. And so I called him. I said, Dad...

He's in our locker room. He said, Riley, you come open this side door. I'm going to come down there and I'm going to handle this myself. And I said, Dad, we already have one man in the locker room. We don't need to. And you'll go to jail. When my dad said he's coming in the locker room, he was not kidding. And he really would end up in jail. And so I told him, Dad, I got it. I can handle it. And it was kind of that moment really where...

That on top of, of course, the unfair competition, on top of the silencing, all these different factors on top of each other. Did I hear also with that on the know with the locker rooms that if you were one of the girls and you wanted to file a complaint against

You could be charged with sexual harassment because you were... And that's what this new... I mentioned, of course, Title IX. I mentioned our administration is rewriting it. That's what this new rewrite does. If you, even if, again, broader than women's sports, if you, a 17-year-old girl, you go off to college, obviously for the first time, you move away from your family, and you're randomly assigned a male who identifies as a woman as your roommate, which this new rewrite allows...

And you go to your administration because you feel uncomfortable sharing a room. And of course, you know, like, what is it like two feet away beds from this boy? If you go to your administration and complain under the new rewrite, you would be guilty and charged with sexual harassment. Leah Thomas's teammates, who of course, Will Thomas's teammates, who they undress with this man 18 times every single week, all season. They did. Um, yeah.

When they sent an email, 16 of them, these girls, plus their parents, signed on to an email to their administration expressing their discomfort in the locker room at the beginning of the season. The administration responded back with, if you feel uncomfortable seeing male genitalia, here are some counseling resources that you should seek in an attempt to re-educate yourself. Yes.

And, you know, they had to go to weekly restorative justice circles and meetings to learn about how just by being cisgender, they were oppressing Lea Thomas. What kind of voodoo is that? You better start thinking differently. But that's that's the direction. I don't know. People understand just how bad college is. Like, truly, it's it's it's bad. It really is.

I don't know if I would let my kids go to college now. If I was faced with it right now, I don't even know if I'd let them go. I can teach them. It's just sad that we can't protect our... Do you think it's going to get to... It's going to take a girl getting killed? Well, you look at sports like... Or governing bodies like USA Boxing that has their policy in place that fully allows for men to get into the ring with women.

Under the guise of progress. Well, that one, Peyton McNabb. Oh, yeah. She took a pretty hard shot. Yeah, she's a volleyball player. She was a senior in high school. This was in September of 2022. So, what, a year and eight-ish months from, I guess, a year and eight months ago. The video's pretty... Oh, she gets slammed in the face with this boy who received a women's scholarship to play volleyball in college, by the way.

Anyways, hits her in the head. Immediately she's knocked unconscious. Um...

Still to this day, okay, she's partially paralyzed on her right side. Her vision is impaired. Her memory is impaired. She has to have special accommodations for testing at school. She was supposed to play softball in college. Forget that. Her doctors in Georgia wouldn't even see her, turned her away when they found out how she got the injury because they said it was too controversial. Like, it's crazy. It's going to take somebody getting killed, actually. There's another girl in Massachusetts who recently in a field hockey game

Of course, a boy is playing on the opposing team. He slaps a shot at the girl, hits her in the mouth, knocks out all of her teeth. She had to undergo facial reconstruction surgery, dental surgery, jaw surgery to just put her face back together from this boy. I could keep going with examples of women being... Are you serious? Oh, gosh, yes.

In Massachusetts again recently. I just talked to a team of... It was a basketball team. Yeah, I saw that in Lowell. So crazy. I mean, the girl I talked to who got thrown on the ground by this guy, she's 13 years old. Um...

But the opposing team allowed a 6'2 boy with facial hair onto their women's team who injured three of the other team's girls before halftime. Yeah, they had to forfeit at halftime, right? They didn't have any more players left on their bench. Right. As a parent, what are you... It keeps going. What are you saying? I mean, again, having a daughter like your dad, how do you not lose it? And how do you not... How do you...

How do you keep going? And you're going on. You're going with an example after example. And I've heard some people say, there's a term I heard somebody use, they're chasing ghosts. Because they don't think it's that many examples. I could tell you an example. I could tell you multiple examples in every single state, every single sport. Easily. Right. What? You guys have, the amount of messages I receive daily. I got to get out more. I don't know.

I don't know what's going on. Well, people are scared to say it. Again, they'll share these things with me in confidence saying, but please don't tell anyone because I don't want to be ostracized. People are even scared to defend themselves. Where are the men? I think our nation is suffering for a couple reasons. Most importantly is because we live in a godless society. But secondly is because we have weak male leadership. Absolutely. You look at

You know, there's a saying and it's proven itself to be true over and over and over again, not just here in, I guess, our Western civilization, but the rise and fall of any civilization. And it's a cycle that says hard times create strong men, strong men create good times, good times create weak men, weak men create hard times. Again, you can see this play out over and over and over again.

There's no doubt in my mind which part of the process we're in where weak men have created hard times. I think the last time we had a society full of strong men was truly in the 1940s during World War II. The self-proclaimed greatest generation. But if you think about it, if you really think about it, these were men who were...

willing and actively lied about their age, saying they were older than what they really were so they could enlist and fight for this country. And now what, 80-ish years later, you have been actively lying about their sex so they can get into women's sports or women's prisons or women's sororities or women's locker rooms or what have you. It's a telltale sign of where we are now. You bring up the greatest generation. It is amazing how

how far we are away from that. It seems like it is a different world, but it's a, you know, that's all people wanted to do was go fight for their country. The women, they just, they all rose up together. Everybody was fighting together. You know, it's, I don't know how we got to this point. You won't see, exactly. And truthfully, speaking of unity, like you're talking about, where everyone really did unite behind something, I truly think it's going to take

some sort of civil war...

To make us unite again. I really do. I think of even something, you think of something as awful and terrible as 9-11. Again, you guys were alive. We were just having this conversation, by the way. We were even driving. So I, of course, I was one years old, so it's not like I'm sitting here preaching on a subject that I was there for, I remember. But based off of what you hear, what you've read, different things, that was a time period where, again,

awful, horrible circumstance, but we united as a country. I think if something like 9-11 happened again, I don't think we would unite like that. I really don't. There's no way. I think it's going to take something catastrophic like a civil war, truly, which I hate to even say that. 9-11, we talked about it a few episodes ago. We were saying that's the last time I felt the country was on the same page. And I don't think, Stadler, you brought up a great point. I don't think a 9-11 would do that.

It's because we're weaker now. I was at State of the Union a few weeks ago where, of course, President Biden addresses the state of our nation. I was so disheartened sitting in that room, sitting, you know, a couple yards away from President Biden, Nancy Pelosi, all the people, right? It was the most divisive speech I've ever heard. And it's like, this isn't supposed to be something that's divisive, but it's

For the only time in my life I've ever been glad that he's president because I didn't have to keep standing up and sitting down. I got to stay sat the entire time. I'm like, this is awesome. My legs don't hurt. Speaking of State of the Union, my husband, he stayed home. The next few days, of course, coming back home to Tennessee, we get a package in the mail. And it was so heavy. I'm lifting this package. I'm like, what is this? I open it. 2,000 rounds of ammunition. I'm like, Louie.

Of course, his name is Louie, the typical British name. I'm like, what did you order this for? He was like, well, I was watching State of the Union and a commercial came up. I'm like, you're one of those doomsdayers who felt like you had to get ammo watching State of the Union. So he fell for it. I've got all my dehydrated food that lasts for 25 years. Hey, there we go. Louie needs to go turkey hunting. I need to take Louie turkey hunting. Hey, come on. He'll take you up on it. All right, so...

Let's talk about a few sports besides swimming where biological men would have... I mean, to be fair, I do use the ladies' tees. Let's go on record here. To be fair, there is another use for the ladies' tees. That's for recreation. I feel comfortable. It's okay if your bulge is not as big as other guys. You know what? I appreciate you coming out. You are brave. I...

Have no choice. That's amazing. I mean, sometimes my second shot is from the ladies. In fairness, I'm actually alarmed at the difference. But there is a difference. Sometimes Alvin and Kerr are up on the top of this hill, and I'm taking my cart down another good bit away to the softer side. But it's like every sport is like that. You look at volleyball, the men's net is 7 1⁄2 inches higher than the women's net. You look at basketball. We just watched the national championship for both the men and women.

Of course, the speed of the game, the size of the ball is different. The three-point line is a different distance. When a woman gets a fast break, she's going down there and doing a layup. When a man gets a fast break, he's going down there and dunking the ball. You look at sports like – I mean, the list goes on. You remember when Annika Sorensen played? Oh, yeah. One of the guys. Yeah. Remember she wanted to play in a PGA Tour event and –

it was all she could handle because the distance, the length of the course was too long, but she wanted to do it and she wanted to prove that she could do it and it was great, but she couldn't compete because she couldn't hit it as far as the guys could. You look at gymnastics. Enter if you dare, but when you flip it, it becomes...

Yeah, competitive advantage. That right there shows you the difference. Right there, why this whole thing is so insane. Well, and you pulled for her because she was at a disadvantage. Absolutely, we were pulling for her. She was at a disadvantage, so we were pulling for her. Once they got on the green. You're not pulling for a man against a woman who has an absolute advantage. And I was pulling this up. This girl messaged me about the Haley Davidson thing.

This is what she said. I was appalled by what I basically said. I competed against him. I lost in a head-to-head sudden death playoff at a professional golf tournament to him. I was appalled by what I witnessed and the differences that occurred between the regulation holes and the sudden playoff. Haley, on average, hit it about 10 yards longer than me throughout the entire competition and over the last two events. Or she said, I played 56 holes with Haley, so I believe I have a high understanding of

His swing, the ball flight distances, yet when the sudden death began, 10 to 15 miles per hour faster, increasing the length of his shot by 30 plus yards. He was holding back. The whole time. Yep. Until it was time to win. Until it was time to win. And then nobody will notice. I'm glad you referred to him as he. Yeah. And just wanted to hold the trophy, which kind of goes because I think we skipped over this. And I think the numbers...

So is it a minute 43.40? Yeah. Is that, is that, is that a number that stands out in your head? Yeah. Which it's crazy. It wasn't a best time. I didn't swim my best race. Had I swam my best race, um, the outcome would have been different. But again, this goes back to, to really showing me there was divine intervention, um,

racing for a minute and 40-ish seconds, and not even one 100th separated me and him. It never happens. No, it's... And that was fifth. In that championship, y'all tied for fifth the exact same time, right? Exact same time, which...

Again, one, it's incredibly embarrassing for a six foot four man. For him, yes. Two, it is rare. But yeah, to your point, after tying, we go back there. This is the pinnacle of collegiate sports, right? The NCAA championships, the tournament, whatever, NCAA meet,

Uh, it's faster than the Olympics comparatively because of how many fast swimmers the U S has. So this isn't a bunch of scrubs. It's the fastest swimmers in the entire country, net world, really. Cause we recruit from all over fast swimmers in the world. So we just tied, we go back to, you know, behind the awards podium where the NCAA official looks at both he and I, him again, towering over me, me standing at a whopping five foot five, five foot six, him at six foot four. And this official says, great job. You too.

But you tied. And we only have one trophy, so we're going to give the trophy to Leah. But, you know, great job, guys. That's what I thought. I was a quote. It was a direct quote. Neil, I'm a little disappointed. I know. It was a direct quote. But we can do that to the Instant Play guy. Sorry. Which, you know, my heart rate was high having just competed. My adrenaline was still, like, pumping. And so the first thing that I thought was the first thing that I said. And I looked at him and I said...

What do you mean you're going to give the trophy to the man? Isn't this everything that Title IX was passed to prevent from happening? Really, that's when I asked the question that no one dared ask all season. And I said, why? Why are you giving the trophy to the man and the women's 200 free? And the answer was...

well, we're just doing this in chronological order is the first thing you said. What does that mean? You have which? That's what I asked. Which is not alphabetical either. No, that's what I said. I was like, do you mean alphabetical? Because G comes before T. Otherwise, I literally have no idea what you're being chronological about. We tied. What's the response of people in the stands and in the

What do they think? They were saying with their applause and with their silence what they wouldn't say out loud. No one clapped for him when he got on the podium. Are you kidding me? And I'm thinking, what are you thinking when you're on the block? Is that the right term? On the block? Yeah, no, that's exactly right. So...

Where are you, by the way, positioned from him? I think I was lane two or three or one or something like that. I was on this side of the pool. He was in the middle. So we had a couple lanes separating us. What are you thinking? First of all, I can't believe he's here or I can't wait to beat this. You know, I didn't really have that thought in my head. I can't wait to beat him. Because I knew, honestly. And look, I'm...

I mean, I'm a tough competitor. I love competing. I love the pressure. I really, I loved being against someone who was better than me. Right. I really did. But this wasn't that. So were you disheartened even on the block? Yeah. I mean, it just felt like you're going into the race with your hands tied behind your back. It felt like who was vying for second at that point. Okay. You should have put on webbed gloves and webbed flippers and said, I'm identifying as a duck.

When did you start swimming? How old were you? You should have done that. Four. So since you're four years old. I mean, dedicated 18 years. Your whole life. Your whole four years old. And you get to that point and you're competing against a 6'4 man. And it's like, how can you not be deflated? Like, what is going on? Like, this is setting me up for failure. It was. Setting our women up for failure. Again, at the hands of the NCAA. Which is, that's what gets me. Like, it's.

You would think somebody at the NCAA, somebody within the organization that has some power, would be like, you know, enough of this insanity. We've seen a couple people now, one of, actually, who's representing our case to the NCAA, his name is Bill Bach, our attorney now.

He was one of the higher up officials and he quit out of protests. He said, look, I can't be a part of an organization that does this. I don't know what kind of power he had in terms of making change, but he said, I'm not being a part of it. We've seen some of that. My coach lost his job for supporting me. One piece of this whole championship that a lot of people don't know is that during all of this, one of my assistant coaches during all this decided that she was going to transition.

It was just a whole other added layer of pressure. Having a coach, Bridget, who then began to identify as Briggs, who... Confusing. So confusing. Like, so confusing. Is there light at the end of the tunnel? That's what I think. Do you see it turning? Definitely. I really do, which we spent a lot of our time talking about the grim and the negatives and...

the chilling aspect to what's going on in like, we would be stupid to ignore that. Of course that's happening. But I think it takes those things happening to draw attention to it, wake people up and inspire people to become bold, to put their name in their face out there. And that's happening more and more daily. Uh, I imagine even you guys from when you first released this song, uh,

Think about those first couple days. I bet there were, I mean, it was probably a scary time for y'all. Y'all didn't have a lot of people in your industry, even the messages privately. But compared to now, do you guys, at least in your realm, feel as if people have become more? Yes, absolutely. I think, well, certainly truth and sanity always prevail. It's just proven they do. That's right.

It's just kind of, you know, how long do we have to endure this? But I think with all the insane things going on, people are certainly waking up. Whether it's parents or coaches or medical professionals or female athletes themselves, people are definitely waking up. And you're a big part of that. Well...

You know, people waking up to it, like saying, you know, because otherwise they don't know about it or they're blind to or they don't want to hear about it unless they're affected by it. Right. And that's exactly right. And even us, I mean, we kind of know your story, but just here tonight hearing all of the stories, or not even all, but just the more in-depth of it. It's small.

It's such a small... I could truly... I mean, we could sit here the rest of... We can have a part two. Today, tomorrow, and the next day. Right. Hey, yeah, part two. Does that mean I get to come back? Of course. Please come back. I know. He's somewhere. But yeah, I do believe the tide is turning. I really do. I think we're getting to that point. So we'll see. What's next for you? I spend a lot of my time...

doing legislative work. I really do. Uh, so in terms of, um, traveling state to state meeting with legislative bodies, um, teaching them how to talk about these issues, teaching them, basically helping them craft these pieces of legislation. Uh, so now there are 24 states that have enacted some sort of fairness and women's sports bill, uh, just testified this week in Alaska. Uh,

We had a big win in New Hampshire this week on this bill. Another bill that I've developed and been working on in different states is the Women's Bill of Rights, which is...

I can't even believe it's necessary. It's a bill that defines the word woman. Got that passed here in Tennessee. Tennessee was the second state to do it, which is awesome. Kansas, Nebraska, Oklahoma. We're expecting big wins this week from Mississippi and Idaho. It's tracking in a bunch of different states. So I spend a lot of my time on the legislative side of things, really, really trying to enact change. Because you can talk about it. You can talk about it all day long, which I did for a while.

But I felt like I was honestly, like I was whining. Like I felt like I was complaining. Of course, I identified the problem. But what was I doing to fix it? And if there's one thing my dad told me, has ever taught me,

No one wants to be around a complainer, you know, put up or shut up, do something about it if you don't like it. And that's what I've really dedicated myself to. Yeah. Well, we we we think you're the definition of woman. And we want to give you this lyric that we wrote for you. Yeah. Oh, my God. Yeah.

Can you sing it? No, this is incredible. I want to say just one more thing while we have you, because knew you had brought it up and we didn't get back to it because you're talking about how we, you know, we have daughters and girls and, and, and you have this stuff going on and you think, well, well, why do we even play? Why don't you just quit? Why don't we, the girls does not play sports.

which like, you know, to your point earlier is not the answer. And the fact, and then Kerr, you had mentioned it totally, and Neil is very thankful for you for giving kids, you know, hope and a future in having opportunities in women's sports. And that's humongous because if not you, who? Like God keeps coming to you because I mean, like you start and then hopefully some others come behind you, but somebody had to start it.

and you start it and you give everybody hope that this can somehow still be. Amen. Thank you. Thank you for being here. Anyway, God bless you. You're the best. For sure. And Kurt, if you want to give us the...

Try that in a small town podcast. Tell them all the likes and subscribes. This is my job. Make sure you like and subscribe and comment anywhere where you get your podcast. Check, try that in a small town podcast out at Spotify. You guys are incredible. They've had on some awesome guests already. Some super cool guests planned for the future.

Because I'm coming back. You're a pro at this. Hey, Wade, we got that on tape. So, but really, this is like the coolest. I've done them all, right? Joe Rogan. I've done Tucker Carlson. I've been on all of them. Bill Maher. I think I left there secondhand high. But being here is the coolest. So, I could not be more grateful. Well, thank you for coming down. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.