EPISODE 2: Jason Aldean joins the writers to tell his side of the story.
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I was going in the hole every night to play shows. I had a bus. You had a bus? There was about 12 of us on it. They called it a bus. My nightly nut for the bus and to pay all my guys and everything was about $6,500 a night. There was times I was making $2,500 a night to play a show, and $6,500 a night was what it cost me to play the show. The public thinks if you have a song out on the radio, you're rich. I went number one. I was broke.

Welcome back to the Try That Podcast. Big night tonight. We have the GOAT in the house, Mr. Jason Aldean. Let's go. Oh, stop. Wait a minute. Be so humble. Before we get going, current ACM Artist of the Decade, 28 number one songs, 20 million albums sold. This number, 18 billion streams.

And we are on our 11th album. Yeah. Wow. That's a lot to take in. Is that stuff true? Where'd you find it? It has to be true. Everything's true on Google. It's all true. Okay. No, what a great night. Thank you so much. Yeah, of course. For coming down. For hanging out with you guys. Oh, yeah. This is great. Thanks for having me. Well, I mean, last week we talked about, you know, how, you know, we got together, how the idea for Try That in Small Town came

came to be how Neil and I were writing and him already having a relationship with Curt and Tully and a lot of the story about that but what's exciting you know for us and the listeners is from your vantage point I mean just where were you when you heard the song and what did you think I mean what was the first thing you thought well Curt and Tully have been telling me man we are onto something that's really cool and you know we're getting a demo done and

I'm going to get it to you as soon as we can. And so I kind of knew something cool was coming. I didn't really know what exactly it was. And so I was just in the car one day riding and it just happened to be when they sent the song and

I put it, you know, just put it on, immediately started playing it. And I mean, it was just one of those things for me where first listen, you know, you knew that it was something that was, it said a lot of the things that I wanted to say at that time and even now. And, you know, it's just, I don't know, just in our culture right now, it's just a lot of different things going on that I don't agree with. And I feel like that song is,

And I feel like, you know, we're all in the same, obviously been friends and we're all on the same page with those things as well. So, you know, it was one of those for me. I mean, it was the first listen. I knew that it was something I wanted to cut and said a lot of the things that I wanted to say and,

and immediately kind of got the idea in my head for what, you know, I thought this video could look like. And, um, and that was obviously one of the things that helped with this song kind of, you know, coming to the mainstream and really getting a lot of attention was, was the video. And I, you know, and I keep saying, like, I stand by that. I think the video was real and, and, um, captured exactly what I wanted it to. And, you know, this day and age, a lot of times you're going to,

You know, you're going to get people that see something other or want to see something other than what the message is. And that's fine. You know, music and videos and things like that are very subjective and people are entitled to their opinions. And but for me, it was a no brainer that this said exactly what I wanted it to say. And I just felt like it was going to be a special song for us. Like on that first listen, right, you're listening through it for the very first time.

Was there any thought of, ooh, I can't believe they said that? Or, ooh, that could be... Not at all. I mean, for me, there wasn't. You know, I feel like it was to the point. It said, like, you know...

I would say that it's, you know, people like how I was raised and grew up like that. It just is what it is. It's like, you know, you know, you don't tolerate those things. And, you know, the gun line in the song was the first big thing when I took it to the label. That was a, oh, well, it mentions a gun. And we had just had a shooting at a school here in Nashville. So, you know, you try to be like sympathetic to those things. But I mean, in reality, it's like, unfortunately, we have things like that that are happening everywhere.

almost on a weekly basis at this point. And, you know, it's like, to be honest, everybody was kind of like saying, you know, we have to be mindful of that. And in my mind, it's like, man, that gives us more reason to put this song out to say like, this is what's going on. And,

like we're just standing back watching it, letting it continue to happen. Like, let's like, come on, we gotta have a small town mentality here and like do away with this stuff. So to me, you know, it, it was that, you know, a lot of it. And so, um, you know, the gun was the biggest thing, you know, at first, um,

Talking about a gun that your grandfather's gonna give you. We know it's a shotgun. Come on. We know it's a shotgun. It's a squirrel gun. It's not an Uzi. Really? That was the first big kind of, not big hurdle, but it was the first thing where they kind of said, oh, well, I don't know. You know, this just happened at a school. And to me, it was just more incentive to put the song out and kind of raise awareness to kind of the bullshit that's been going on. Well, and your vision always was, from the minute you heard that song,

I remember that night you texted me about your vision for the video. Yeah. About the one, two punch of a song and the video together, which was, it was a moment. It was a vision. It was in it. And that's exactly how it came out. Yeah. You know, I called Sean Silva, who was the video director for this, who we've worked with a ton. You guys know, and, um, you know, and just kind of talked to him. And the thing I said, I said, man, do you remember the, uh,

Billy Joel, We Didn't Start the Fire video, where it was just like, you know, the walls were coming down back then. It was like all these things going on in the late 80s, early 90s. But it was, you know, it was showing kind of chaos in the world and what was going on. That's a great reference. Yeah, and that was truly my vision for, you know, for the video. But, you know, sort of an updated version of that with all the things that we've been dealing with, you know.

in recent years. And so I thought Sean did a great job at capturing that. You know, obviously you're going to have people go in and start picking that apart too, but I thought the video was great. The original version, the, all the versions, you know, and I stand behind all those things. Hey, one thing I never asked, you know, you were talking about calling Sean for the video.

did you wonder like, you know, you wonder how, where people lean, right. Did you know kind of what Sean's values and principles were? And like, Hey, I got a song. No, I didn't at all. Um, you know, I really, you know, Sean and I've been friends for a long time. That's kind of never really come up. Like, you know, where do you stand on a political perspective? It's just never been a thing. Um, we've been really cool. You know, I appreciate him and his artistic vision of what he does. And, uh,

He didn't hold anything back. No, and I think we just had a really, you know, a really kind of in-depth conversation about what I wanted to see and what I wanted it to be. And I didn't, you know, I didn't want to put something out there that looked like we tried to say it, but we're a little too scared to say it. I think with something like that, like if you're going to go for it, you got to go for it, right? And just say...

This is where I stand. This is what I believe. This is, you know, I'm going all in with this thing. You guys can try and rip it apart all you want to, but, you know, it is what it is and it's the way I feel. I remember while we're shooting the video, looking at you, Kurt, thinking, no, I remember thinking,

This is epic. Oh, this is a moment, right? This is a moment. We didn't even see the video yet. No. We just didn't even know there was going to be flashes on the courthouse and all the other stuff that was getting sprinkled in. But that, I remember pulling up to the courthouse and being like, man, this is a really cool spot. And they had that flag draped from the, oh, man. What a moment. I remember thinking while we were doing the video, like,

This is a moment. This is going to make some noise. Amazing vision for that, though. Once all the stuff started with the song, the next focus kind of became on that courthouse, which is in the little town I live in.

And, you know, it was like, oh, well, you know, somebody was hung there a hundred years ago and that's why we filmed the video. I'm like, you gotta be shitting me. Like if somebody thinks that we went back a hundred years to look at the history of a building and went, yep, that's where we want to shoot. You're giving me way too much credit. But that's what happens. It was what fueled the song. It was all those things and people...

I feel like a lot of people were looking at it going, you know, oh, everybody's saying the song is racist and they're listening going, where? You know? And then it's like the courthouse became a thing. And I think even then people were kind of like, all right, you got to be like, you're grasping at straws here. Well, most people, they push that narrative and we've talked about this. They push that and you were called to

Pro-lynching, racist, and because of this, and I was talking about this, you'd watch CNN and they have people on there talking about, oh, they did this at this courthouse and Jason Aldean should be ashamed. And the anchor knows, like we said, there was a Hannah Montana video shot there. There's a Hallmark Christmas movie. They know this and they're perpetuating the- For sure. And I do feel like, I mean, I've been obviously-

in the center of a lot of media stuff over the years. You're a media darling. You know what I mean? But, you know, the one thing I do know is that the media, you know, they, they can, you know, if they want you to go down that path, they can lead you down that path. You know, make it look this way. It's almost like an illusion when you're watching the news anymore. It's like,

Is it real? Is it, you know, are you giving me the actual news or is this just your opinion of what you think should happen? Like, it's so weird. And, you know, once that narrative started about, you know, the song and the courthouse and the snowball and, you know, it just, people were very interested. And I think, you know, people that sort of fed into that went and said, yeah,

yep, I hear it. And then the other people are listening going, I don't get it. You know? And so, and like we always said, I think we've all talked about it and, you know, I think we all knew what the message was for that song. And, um, you know, I think the video and all those things, that's why we put it out. And that was always the message. It's still the message. And, you know, there was no chance I was going to go back and be like, no, no, wait, everybody. That's not what I meant. That's the difference though. That's the difference between, um,

wanting to do something and actually standing your ground and doing it because it wasn't easy. I mean, you know, people in, on our label, in our camp, you know, there would have been plenty of chances to, to back down. Right. And, and play and take it safe. That's kind of what made this song going number one special and the number one party that we just had. And, you know, this was a different one. I think we were texting about it last night, but this one just kind of felt different. You know, you had a,

there was a lot that came with this song from, you know, being on the road and, and even you guys as writers in town dealing with, you know, other people that sort of look down their nose at that stuff. It was completely different. And so for me, I'm, this is one of the ones that I'm probably the most proud of just because we had to take some, some bullets for this one, you know, and, and a lot of it, most of it was undeserving. And so, um, to me, I don't know, this one was a pretty special one. And I think, um,

you know, we had, we had to write this thing. So we had tons, you know, of people that did not respond to this. It's like, like if we have some success as songwriters and, and we have a song that does really good or whatever, uh,

all your peers text you and hey congrats and all this man it went it was freaking it was crickets on this one man it was like I'm like really I'm like you don't want to associate yourself with this really the truth you don't want to associate I think I think a lot of that man is it's like in anything you know we're in Nashville we're in a you know kind of a corporate world ish in a lot of senses like with a lot of the publishing companies and record companies and all the powers that be and

And I think any more that it's... There's so many different opinions and so many different... Nobody wants to speak out on anything. They may feel that. I can't tell you how many people. And you got probably two that have come up to me and been like...

you know, thank you for being one of the few that will step out and, you know, and not be afraid to talk about things that, you know, it's, there's a lot of us out here and you know that, you know, but a lot of people are, and I have artist friends that are like this, man, they would never put that song out. Of course not. For fear of it being a career ender. Well, we're not putting you on the spot here at all, but we talked about this. No, let's put him on the spot. No, no, not in that way, but it was, it's like this. We talked about,

how it was upsetting to us that not a lot of people came and got your back. And there were a couple that did, and those were appreciated, believe me. There was a lot of text messages.

A lot of private texts. A lot of texts, but not tweets. I'm behind you, buddy. Yeah, I got your back. But nobody in the, you know, there was a couple. But you're right. They were, they're scared because that's unfortunately the world that we're in. And if you take a side, man, you, you better be ready because they're coming after you. I'm not saying the way I feel is the way. Like, I'm just saying for me, it's the way I feel. It's what I believe. And it's where I choose to speak.

kind of plant my flag. And that's the whole point of all this is like, it's okay to have differing opinions. Sure. And, yeah. And where you stand is where you stand and where I'm here. And like, if you agree with somebody 100%, that's actually weird to me. Like, you're not critical thinking. Have your own point of view and vision. And,

It's never that, it's never you should think what I think, it's just that the persecution. - It's what I think, don't judge me for what I think either. You know what I'm saying? Like it's that. - But Jason, you could have your close friends, artists and peers and everything that they want to come out and say something to support you, but their management or label's saying, "Hey, we know you love him, know y'all are tight, y'all go hunting and fishing stuff,

Just don't. Stay out of it. It's more of a this ain't your fight kind of thing, which is fine. And I don't trust me. I don't expect when I come out and say something in the media or I don't expect everybody to come out and be like, yeah, I'm doing that based on my feelings and what I think and that I feel like something needs to be said. So I don't do it with the hopes that other artists and everybody are going to jump on the bandwagon. It's like,

But it's kind of funny to me when, you know, all the artists text me. We're behind you. I'm like, fucking are you? Are you really? Like, how far behind me? Very, very encrypted. Yeah. Everybody's entitled to think how they want to think. Yeah. But you, we, we have that right as well. And it feels like.

you know, on our side, that's when stuff happens or we're racist or they're going to find things in the song or they're going to pull things to make it to fit into their narrative, which is, it was really wild to watch. Well, I think obviously, you know, I've been like outspoken about being a Trump supporter and those things. And I think anymore, it's just guilty by association. It's like, if you're a Republican and you support Trump, you're racist and a bigot and all these kinds of different things, you know what I mean? And it's just like,

It has nothing to do with like you as a person. It's just, if you like that guy or that's what you think, then you're just automatically labeled as this. And,

I just think that that is like the new normal. It's the new scapegoat. It's a new easy way out when, you know, a conversation starts or you put, you know, somebody's back against the wall to ask, you know, ask them a real question and see if they can answer it. It's, you know, that's their go to answer is those kind of things just to, you know, again, to sort of take the narrative down a different path. And it's not about that. It's about.

you know, I don't care what color you are. If like you were saying, I mean, the reason this song got started was you watching a video or some guy just walks up and clocks a lady on the side of the street. I don't care what color you are. Right. If you see that on the street,

you should go kick that guy's ass. You know what I mean? Like, I don't give a damn what color you are. Stand back and video it. That's right. Go handle that. And so, you know, I don't buy into that stuff and people can say whatever they want. I know how I feel. I know, you know, what I do and don't believe in. And so I don't, you know, I don't worry a whole lot about those kind of things. It's annoying to me when you hear people falsely labeling you

but you know, I'm not going to run out there. That's the world we live in right now. Well, and they go, you know, in the first verse, you know, it's like, okay, well, how could you not be against, you know, that stuff, you know? And that's what gets me. It's like, well, this is a,

Are we not on the same page with this stuff? These are basic life principles. These are people that put their kids in time out. Right. Instead of a flip-flop or something. Hey, so, you know, Tully and I were lucky enough. We got to be there. You know, obviously we're lucky to be writers on this thing, but to be there playing it every night. We talked a little bit.

Last week, okay, so all hell breaks loose that week, whatever it was. And it's on every major network. It's on Twitter. It's all over the place. There's probably, I don't know, five or six days. We're all texting, you know, like, oh, my God, do you see this? Do you see this? We go on the road the next week, and we play. The first show is in Cincinnati, Ohio. Yep.

Um, yeah. Talk about a little, uh, you know, thinking about going on stage that night. And I know you thought you had to address a little bit of what was going on. Well, yeah. I mean, I think it was kind of the elephant in the room for sure. You know, it had come out on one Friday, the previous Friday. And by Monday it was national news, like Monday morning. And so our first show was Thursday, Thursday or Friday of that week, that next week.

And so we had some days of it building up and, you know, it was the being accused of being racist and all that. And then, you know, then it was like social media kind of started to get involved and go.

What are you guys talking about? You know, then they kind of started coming to our defense and it was just kind of this wild week, you know, and so all of a sudden we get to the best week of my life. What are you talking about? It was an interesting week in my life. So we get there Friday or whatever it was. And I think I might have told you before the show, I was like, man, I got to address this thing. I just don't.

I truly don't know what I'm going to say. And so it reached the part in the show. I mean, it's the song kind of comes a little earlier in the show. So, you know, the whole front of the show, I'm sitting there trying to play and think about what I'm going to say here and dress this thing. And so when it came time, I just grabbed the mic, didn't know what I was going to say and just went out and, and just kind of,

Said what was on my mind and the way I felt that particular night and whatever, and the crowd erupted. You felt the energy, right? Because we talked about this last week, and every phone's going up, and they were glued to you, and you could tell they wanted to... They wanted to know what I was going to say, but there was 20,000 phones...

in the air filming everything and me not really knowing what the hell I was going to say and what reaction I was going to get. It was pretty wild. But I think after that night, we did that, place went crazy, and I think it let us realize that the people that...

you know, our fan base, the people that we were putting this song out for. And, you know, there was, there was a lot of people out there that felt the same way we did. And, and it just, man, from that point on, from that show on, that thing just took a, got a life of its own. And you gave them a voice too. I think addressing it the way you did every night,

You were speaking with them, for them. And that's what I saw was magic. Like it was a true moment. I wouldn't give anything to be in y'all's shoes. So I feel like you're cutting this song and, you know, and you personally feel like this thing is something special and really a song that's, you know, going to make a mark. And it's not just a, you know, your run of the mill radio song. Like this is a song that means something. And to put that out,

And for it to get the backlash it got is like, man, that sucks. But then all of a sudden to see it flip and the fans get it and support that thing. They wouldn't let it die. No. They tried to kill it and they wouldn't let it die. That was the coolest part of the whole thing for me. And just to see, I mean, even going out this year, I mean, I can't wait to go out and see the reaction. That's going to be one of those songs that gets a huge reaction.

for probably the rest of the timing of it's going to be perfect too with oh you got election oh yeah oh yeah is it an election year but in reality you know it started as a song you know and now became a movement you

because of you and how you stood up for that song. You took a lot of arrows and a lot of heat. And for us, it was so much easier because as the writers, we're just kind of... We're just staying quiet. Listen, we kind of talked about this, right? It's like we kind of felt like Jason...

was a writer of the song. He didn't get paid for it. You were a writer for the song. Yeah, exactly. True. But you took the voice of the song and people believed that you wrote it because of how much you own the song. And speaking to your point, you know, when you were taking the heat, it was...

you never deflected like, oh, you know, the writers could have meant this. You took it all on yourself. And I think that's what we all appreciated. It was like, you know, you own that thing. And that meant a lot to us. Well, and I will, I'll have to say this, man. I got to give Sean Silva some credit because when the, when the video stuff happened and everybody started attacking about video location and all those things, you know, that was another one. I was just like, man, you know,

I'm not going to go out and defend this. I know what the deal was. And, you know, you're looking for people. I mean, you got people out there that are looking for a reason to hate the song. They're going to find these things. And I'm like, I'm not going to go out there and defend this or whatever. And Sean Silva actually made a statement and came out and was like, you know, basically said, like, I picked the location and, you know, let them know. I didn't have any say in those things. We did it because we actually, people don't know this, but we actually picked that location because the next morning I was flying out.

to I think the Bahamas or somewhere that's right or somewhere like that and so I had an early flight so Sean booked it close closer to my house which which this place is like eight miles from my house so we go and shoot it it was a hundred percent out of convenience and actually when the video came out they started talking about this guy that was hung in front of the courthouse and

1920 whatever. Of course he was. Yeah. I was just like, what? Is this for real? Like, is this really a thing? And sure it was. Sure enough, it was. But, you know, I will give Sean a lot of credit. He came out and was like, no, that was my pick, which was really cool. And we had some artists. Cody Johnson came out. He stepped out a little bit. Yeah, he did.

There was a few, so I appreciate all those guys doing that. You had a few artists that actually publicly... Well, you got to be careful what you read on the internet these days. I actually saw it, though. Because there was a lot of things they were saying. I saw Brantley Gilbert on video. Brantley was one for sure. He came out. Even Jake Owen. Jake Owen popped in there. Yeah, he sure did. I've known Jake for a long time, and that was cool. There was definitely a few that popped out and...

you know, kind of gave some support. So I, you know, like you guys said, I mean, we noticed it, we appreciate it. So, um, you know, but I, you know, there's a lot of guys that aren't going to do that for fear of, I get it, the paycheck. So, and you know, that, that is what it is. And I don't, I don't expect those guys to jump out and do that. But, um, you know, I think, I think for me, it's more about me and how I feel and the message that, you know, I want us to, to have out there and,

You know, that's what matters most. You had just pro-America people that loved it for the right reasons, for the reasons of your vision of the video and Sean and everything. And Neil, you know, called me and he said, he said, Kalo, I just saw the video.

Oh, let me tell you something. What'd you think? I had a knee up on the arm of the couch downstairs. He was crying. When I saw it, I got so emotional. I don't know. It was just a really powerful, I think, video. Especially after we had sat there for the last, whatever, three years and watched all this stuff happen during COVID. And then a couple years after that, and it's just like...

Even now, still dealing with it. We got the Mexico thing, the border wide open. We're just letting all these random ass people in our country. That's totally safe. It's only 7 million. If you stopped it now, we're good. My thing is about the border. I didn't think we had a problem at the border. We didn't until now. I'm just saying they were trying to book a room at a hotel. You can't get it. I'm all about anybody coming here. Obviously, I think

our country's greatest thing in the world. Who wouldn't want to come here? Just do it the right way, man. You can't just open that up. Back to the song real quick. No one knows the fan base, your fan base, better than you. But not just your fan base. I think all country music. I think you know the country music fan base better than any artist ever.

It showed with this song. Yeah. Because I think it showed, it gave them a way to express what they feel without being afraid to say something. Through you, it was really impressive to see. You know, I think there was a time where artists, you know, had a little bit more of that. You know, they had a little bit more, I guess, balls to go out and, you know, put songs out that...

you know, maybe weren't the politically correct thing to say. Country boy can't survive. Country boy can't survive, courtesy of the red, white, and blue, Toby. I mean, it was just a time where, you know,

I mean, I just feel like that's what part of being an artist is about. You know, it's like you have feelings. And, you know, for me, it's like that's my way to express it. You know what I'm saying? So finding songs and things like that, especially songs like this that don't come around all the time, they kind of say exactly what you want them to say. It had been a while. Yeah. But, I mean, you know, I wish it would get back to that where people would like...

I think right now, too, it's like used to country music fans, most country music fans, like y'all kind of had the same set of principles, right? Like you believed in family, God, country, all those things. And we were all kind of on the same page. And now everything's like...

oh, can't say that. Well, did you mean this when you said that? Or did you mean, like, you just overanalyze everything. It's just annoying as shit. Everybody's trying to catch you saying something wrong. And it's just like, man, as artists, I feel like we got to do what we do. We talked about that when we were, like, when K-Lo came in with the idea. Yeah. I was like,

oh, man, we can only say this one way. And we talked about how 99.9% of the writers in town would never even go there. They would not even attempt to write that song because they wouldn't think it would ever get cut. And it probably wouldn't by 9-12. No, that's a fact. But I think you are probably going to be responsible for changing that. I think a lot of artists...

are seeing that. Well, I can have a voice. I can say this. Yeah. And now that you have a license and a lot of people have came out, you know, it will connect with the fans, which is what it's all about. Going back to the beginning. I mean, in 05, the one thing I think that's always kind of worked for, for us and the reason, you know, we've kind of been, been around for almost 20 years now is, uh,

It was always authentic to everything we've ever done has always been authentic to, you know. You haven't changed, by the way. You haven't changed. You still look the same. Well, thank you. I think you're full of shit. You're getting more cuts. He's my new publisher. Kiss his ass.

whenever I can. I think you're great too, Jason. I really do. But you know what I'm saying? Like going back to Hicktown, you know, that at the time, like, I mean, I was, we cut that song. I was 27 years old, you know, hadn't been out of Georgia long. And it was just like, man, that's what me and my friends did, you know? And then we kind of grew into this thing over the years. And now here I'm, you know, cut that song. I was 45, 46, whatever it was. It's just, you know, and I think like through every aspect of my career, um,

Every album, every whatever, it's always been true and true to the brand and honest and it is what it is. And I think this song was like that and I think that's one of the reasons that people connected with it. Obviously, there's a lot of people that could relate to this song and we're all watching the same news channel every night. You know what I'm saying? We all see it. And I think there was a lot of people that got it and were just thankful for it.

for the song and for us, you know, kind of speaking up and getting this thing out there, especially when people are trying to kill it before it ever got off the ground. That's right. It's crazy too. You mentioned how long, you know, 25 years since we met. Since you two met? Yeah, we met in 99. So you should tell that we met you 99 or 10. It was really quickly after that. I should go back because, sorry, you do your point first. I was just going to say like, who's the original? If TK is you, we met first. So,

Putting a band together, right? This is 99. How did you guys meet? We met through Michael Knox. No, I want to hear this. No, Michael Knox called me. I met Michael in 96, right? So some people that don't know, Michael's my producer. He discovered me in a club in 1998, brought me to Nashville to try and help me get a record deal and be a songwriter at Warner Chapel. So I got to town.

And we're trying to put a band together to do shows. And so then you take over from there. He calls me one day and I met Michael in 96 and he was trying to get me with some young artists, you know, that he knew. Then he calls me one day. He goes, Hey,

I had this really cool new singer from Georgia want you to meet. So he hooks us up and we decided to meet down at Buffalo Billiards. Oh, wow. So we go down. I'm from, you know, in the mountains of New York State. This is like January or February of 99. January. I'll never forget. It was like January 31st.

Third or fourth or something crazy thing. You remember that? That's dumb. Well, we met and really what's crazy is we couldn't be from more different places. Kind of the same though. And we realized we were kind of raised the same and had the same thing. And we, you know, jump ahead. We want to put a band together and we need a guitar player.

And I knew Kurt. And I said, well, I know someone. And so we put this little rehearsal together at SIR. But Kurt had a gig the night before. Kurt had a gig. He goes, I'll be there, though. I'll be there. So we go. I can't remember who he had playing drums. And keep in mind, I mean, to say we're green is an understatement. Adam Farley, maybe? I can't remember. Might have been Adam Farley. Might have been Adam Farley. He hadn't even brought Rich in yet. No. So we get there at SIR. And it's like, OK, we're going to rehearse at 10 o'clock. 10 o'clock comes and...

no one on guitar still. I'm like, no, we had a guy, but he was horrible. I mean, that's what it was. Remember he was so busy and like running around the stage. We're like, that's right. He looked like it. He was from like an eighties glam band, but the guys, I kept saying, I kept saying, Jason, don't worry, man. I got the guys coming.

11 o'clock comes. I was a little late. Why were you late? Well, let's check it out. So I call him. I call him. I said, Hey man. I said, um, Kurt, I said, are you going to come to this rehearsal today with my buddy? And Kurt goes, yeah, I'll be right there. I said, where are you? He goes, I'm in St. Louis. The story is stretched.

Like a fish that you caught. Were you on the way? I was on the way. I had a gig in St. Louis the night with my dad. Yeah. But yes, I was very late. Very, very late. You guys talked about how you got together. You guys talked a little bit about when you guys first met, you kind of would go over to Jason's place. You'd scrap together some money. Talk a little bit about that. It's no joke. No. When I first moved to town...

I lived in the lakes of Bellevue apartments over in Bellevue outside of Nashville. And I think my apartment was like 500 square feet, 495 square. It was something like that. I remember thinking it was impressive because I had the big fat one in my backyard. No, that little, that little, it had a big fat one. That was, that was my only thing. It's got money. I got a bottom floor like on the, on the little pond side so I could go out and fish. And,

Hey, priorities. Priorities. I thought I was balling on the budget, man. So, yeah. So, I mean, it was like this little apartment and...

Tully would come over and we'd buy pizza or something and sit there and try and write songs. And they were not good. But it was like, dude, we didn't have any money to go out and do anything. So it was just like, we'd sit there and maybe go rent some documentary, like music documentary movies to watch or try to write songs. And we just kind of got to know each other like that. Yeah, we had a lot of similar backgrounds.

things in common, the way we were raised, you know. Parents divorced in early, moms, you know, kind of raising us. New York, Georgia. Upstate New York, Georgia. Oh, trust me, when we met, I was like, dude, this guy, like, we...

I'm like, we're into different music. We're just like, hell, I'd only been to New York probably twice at that point ever. But it was really cool. We kind of got to know each other, and that just kind of turned into us playing a ton of showcases over the years. We finally ended up, like, Kurt came on board. Obviously, we knew he was a guy, and then Rich came on board.

Yeah. Our drummer and Kurt. And for the longest, yeah, for the longest time, it was just the four of us, you know, doing our thing, doing showcases. And then even after I got my record deal going out on the road, I mean, it was a four piece thing. And, you know, you learn to get tight, man, as a band and just as friends and just, you know, living with each other, you know, shit. And 300 days a year. And Michael Knox, you know, really is the catalyst for this band because he, his vision was, okay, I'm going to,

I want to, you know, like a Bon Jovi, I want a Heartbreakers. I want a Mellencamp. I want a band to go in there and record with an artist and,

And we were really green. So he would take us in the studio and we'd do these demos. And that is how we learned to be in the studio as a band. We used to have a studio in Warner Chapel when I was writing there. We would go in and record, you know, kind of an off time. I used to sing demos for Knox in that studio. So it was, you know, this is a, this is a 25 year in the making thing. When I met you, that's right. Not long after that, kind of about that, probably I've known you for 20 years. Yeah. It was right in that time.

I was right with you, I think, when I was signed to Capital the first time. Yeah, could have been. For sure. Remember, I swore we made it. You got the Capital deal. Yeah, we did not make it. We did not make it. A lot of people don't realize that. They know your journey, and they know it took a long time to get signed to Broken Bow, but there was a deal before the deal. Yeah, so I moved to town. I moved to town in November of 98, and...

We were in the studio in December and a guy that you guys will know, he was at MCA at the time, a guy named Larry Willoughby. He was an A&R. Oh yeah, I interned over at MCA for the longest time. So Larry comes over, I've been in town a month, and goes, oh man, this is amazing. It's right before Christmas of 1998. Oh, this is great. You know, let's get together after the holidays because in Nashville everything kind of shuts down for the holidays for a few weeks and

Let's get together after the holidays and we'll, you know, get this thing going. We want to sign you to, I think he wanted to sign me to MCA. Well, after that happened, Decker Records folded. They got all those guys at MCA, like Red Akins and Gary Allen and all these guys. So he called me and said, man, we just got all these guys

you know, male artists. We don't need another one. So sorry about your life. Tracy bird. So then he goes to Capitol. He goes to Capitol over there when Pat Quigley was running Capitol and signed me. Good Lord. That's a name. They signed me over there and I was there for a year and, uh, Quigley left, Duggan came in and I mean, he never got to record. I never, I never recorded one song. I was just on the label for a year and then got dropped and,

Ended up signing with B-Beat Broken Bow, like, I don't know, three years later or something. It was a little while later, but. And we kept showcasing. Longer, five years later. Yeah, we kept playing showcases. Oh, yeah. We got passed on. Yeah.

At every music venue you could possibly play in in Nashville. And I'm not kidding. We were at one last night. Douglas Corner. Which was really cool. It was very cool. But we got passed on multiple times in that spot. Oh, at least three times. For sure. I remember the first time I heard...

What y'all were doing. I remember the first time I heard it. Really? Oh, yeah. Okay. Absolutely. We thought it was heavy. No, no. It was badass. And I remember hearing it. I remember how...

Raw it was and how good it was raw in a good way and how stripped down and it was wrong No, no, we met me. It didn't matter. Trust me. It didn't matter I just remember how raw it was and how good it was. It wasn't slick. It wasn't oh god. I wasn't slick No for sure. No, but that's what set it apart. Yeah. Yeah, that's what set y'all apart for sure I mean I was hanging on for dear life. That was literally the the first

country thing that I played. I've said this before, but you know. It wasn't really country. That's what, that's my point. It was rock and roll guitar. No, it was, it was badass and it was, and it was fresh and it was needed. But we were hanging on for dear life. The timing was perfect. You know, it's like, I don't think we really knew what we were doing. We were just hoping something would happen somewhere because we needed money. Well, that was it. You know, I mean, we were, like that shit was,

You can hear what I hear in the early demos that we did in, in the early records is pure desperation, desperation to, to get to the next spot. I remember when we made the first record thinking, well, we get to make a second record and, or is this record even going to come out? Like that was my thing. It's like, man, I was on Capitol for a year and nothing happened. I'm like, we're making a record, but like until this thing is out and like doing something, um,

Like, it doesn't mean anything. We had been around a ton of guys, and you guys too, that have record deals, that make an album, and it comes out, and you've never heard of these people. So all that shit, I didn't, you know, that didn't mean anything to me. I wanted to go out, start playing some shows, making some money, and like...

you know, like trying to at least fund it where I wasn't. I was going in the hole every night to play shows. I had a bus. I mean, I think you had a bus to put it early on. Oh, so my, my nightly nut for the bus and to pay all my guys and everything was about 6,500 a night, I think somewhere around that. And, um, you know, so, I mean, I had this bus and was, you know,

There was times I was making $2,500 a night to play a show, and $6,500 a night was what it cost me to play the show. So I'm steady going in the hole every single night on this deal. And so for me, it was more of like, when you say desperation, it's like, man, I am. Yeah, and public thinks if you have a song out on the radio, you're rich. Well, I went number one. I was broke.

Right. I had a number one, I had a top 10 and a number one, and I was filing extensions with the IRS for two straight years. Yeah. Like that's, that's how it is. I mean, it's, you know, it was my shot to go after it. And, and, you know, to their credit, I mean, shit, we loaded up on a bus, man. And, and didn't come off, didn't come off the road for about four years. Yeah. We talk about this all the time. You know, I think, I,

People, you know, we're blessed now to have some success, right? But, you know, we do this. This is kind of like our Whiskey River, by the way. We do this every night. You know, we're just talking and, you know. The lighting's better in here. Yeah, the lighting's much better. But what I was going to say is that when we talk about stuff, we always go back to the old days, right? Yeah. And even though it was a struggle and even though, man, times were tough. It laid the foundation for everything. Yeah, right. That's right. Yeah. I mean, it really, it made us...

I say this all the time. I've had a lot of success in my career, and it's been really cool. But the fact that these guys have been there since –

I had the record before we were doing, like, they've been a part of like all those albums they listed earlier, you know, we've sold this many, they've played on every single song, every single song now writing pretty much all this stuff, you know what I mean? So it's been a, it's been a team thing, man. And I think in the early years is when we really kind of bonded over that, like being on a bus, especially when it was just the four of us and, you know, we had a huge chip on our shoulder. I think that was the one thing we all went out, all four of us. And,

I was like, all right, we got to open for, you know, whoever. It's like, all right, well, let's go embarrass them. There's only been like in my whole writing career, there's been like four artists that I was like, I've got to chase this. And you were one of them.

And I started chasing it. And I'm like, this kid is cool. Were you on the first record? No. So you had heard of Jason. You started to understand what it was. Yes. I mean, you've gotten...

How many did you say last week? I don't know how many. He was still in Rascal Flatts territory about this time. They were rocking. I was with them from the very beginning. That was very cool because I remember opening, Jason, 06 or 07, this first year, I think 06 maybe. 06. We went out with them in 06 and 07. We went two years in a row. We did a 20-minute slot. The first year was when

All that stuff happened. People got kicked off, and they had us come in and fill in some spots. Who did they kick off? I think it was...

I know they kicked off What's His Face? Church was one. Church was one. And then they had like Gary Allen and me and even Taylor Swift. Like it was kind of during that time they had people. But we were there in 06 and 07. And they were huge. I remember watching their show and we were doing the 20 minute slot. Oh yeah. Because Blake was on in front. Blake was on. And I remember going out and watching their show and thinking, thinking,

God, is this even attainable? Because we were playing bars every night and having an amazing time, but that scope, that scope, they were so big. And I remember looking at the people thinking, could we ever get here? It would be amazing. And then to look at it now. Well, I remember asking Kevin Neal. We were backstage in Tampa, Tampa Theater, and we were opening for McGraw.

And we had been around. Like, we had done the flats thing. We had done all of our stuff. We were kind of stringing some hits together. This was 2008. I remember asking Kevin Neal, who's our booking agent, you know, we pull up one day backstage in Tampa, and McGraw's got, you know, 20 tractor trailers and buses and all this stuff. We're still rocketing like two buses maybe and, you know, pulling a trailer. We might have one truck at the time. And I'm just like, man, we have been – at that time we were –

I felt like we hadn't taken a break in years. We had, I mean, and I just remember asking Kevin, I said, man, what does it take to get to this level? Like, what is it going to take? And he was like, three and a half minutes. You're a song away from us. And, and, you know, next thing you know, like, you know, she's country and my kind of party and all those things hit. And that was our, I think we went out open for him. We went out,

We were going to go out and headline in 09, I think, maybe. And then Brooks and Dunn went on their last rodeo tour. And I was like, I've never toured with those guys. I want to go do some shows with them. So I put off our headlining thing to go do a run with them. And then we started headlining after that. And that's been it. Yeah, and I wouldn't trade. Flats, they were huge for us, man. I've always been very thankful for the opportunity they gave us just to go out and play in front of their fans because they were the biggest thing going at the time. Yeah, and we played –

How many gigs a year? 200 gigs a year for years. Every bar twice a year, it felt like. I wouldn't trade a single one of those in. It was like, that's how we learned to be a band. Just a different...

level of bonding too I think when you're out traveling and you know you've been out there doing it that's why I'm a songwriter today and that's true I mean that's true I think a lot of people are kind of cut out for it it's not it's not an easy gig we did radio tour for five years doing nothing especially when it's like that yes and that was 95 I was graduating high school man the thing I gotta talk about is Flyover States

That song was eight years old. I pitched it to everybody on the planet. That song was eight years old when it got cut? Yeah. Remember, it was on our bus forever. He pitched it to me for, what was it, the My Kind of Party album? I remember we were going to cut it on the previous album. It would have been the wide open album. Yeah, so we were going to cut it, and then it came in a little late on that. We kind of had the record, and I was like,

We didn't cut it, but I told Michael, I said, just keep it in the mix. He was telling me, he's like, man, this song's been around for a while. I'm telling you, man, it's one of my top drawer songs that hadn't been cut, and I pitched it to everybody, and I'm going, I'm telling you, I'm telling you, keep pitching it.

To Jason. We had it. Pound it to Jason. Well, it worked out. We didn't put it on the wide open record, my kind of party record. Much bigger record. And you finally cut it. And it was eight years old before it got cut. I remember having it on our bus. It was a CD of some songs, and that was on our bus.

Years, it felt like. Well, yeah, we had it. It was probably around realistically for about three years because we had it for the one. That album kind of did its cycle, and then it was in the next cycle. So it was around for a minute. It was meant to be, and I'll never forget when Joe Biden, when he was running, he wanted permission. Oh, yeah, they called and asked me if they could use this song. And before I could answer, I was in South Dakota with Kristi Noem doing her...

pheasant hunt up there and you had already responded hail F&O. It's not going to happen. Actually, my response was they called and said that he wanted to use it for his campaign and I was like, I thought they were kidding. You're being pranked. Are you being an asshole? I don't know what's going on. You just mess with me? I was like, no, I'm good. I was like, but if...

If Trump calls, call me back. Well, you're talking about Neil and writing and then introducing me to Curt and Tully and everything. Neil, for you, has always had an innate way of knowing what you would say in a lyric and in a song. And there would be many things I'd pitch to him or I'd say, hey, I think this is the line. And he'd sit there for a while and he just wouldn't say anything. And I'd say, dang, I think that's good. So I'd say it a different way and he wouldn't say anything. Yeah.

And I'd just be kind of looking at his phone, looking around. And I finally said, hey, I really like that line. I think that's good. He goes, nah, Aldean wouldn't say that. And I'm like, how do you know? I mean, y'all don't hang out every day. But he just kind of knows. I'd say that, man. And it's the same thing with these guys writing. It's like we played together for 25 years. These guys listen to me.

the way I sing and phrase things and the subject matter that I like to sing about and chord progressions that they just got it. They know, right? And Neil, I think, was even before that, hell, even before we figured that out, I think Neil, you know, the way you sing things and phrase things, like your melodies, and I mean, it has been, I always say, like, you're the other part of our band for all these years that nobody really knows about. I play acoustic, by the way. I play acoustic.

100% though. You've been such a huge part of this thing since it started and really helped to shape the sound and all these things that we've done. And I don't know what it is. I mean, Michael Knox used to send me demos and he would send me these demos of guys that just like the demo was terrible. They couldn't sing. The song was...

at best. It was the singer was not good. And then all of a sudden I would get these demos from Neil, who's an amazing singer. The songs are cool and he's phrasing things different. And I'm like, this is like, I'm not hearing anything else like this. And to me, that was always a really cool thing. And once Rascal Flatts quit recording records, it was really good. I got all their stuff. Whatever. That's so good.

It is a crazy to look back on all that though. Yeah, man. I mean, it really is like, you know, we talked about it last night, how I think me and Kurt met Neil playing on one of his demo sessions in 2002 or three or something, which today is the last day at Omni. Are you serious? Taking it down. Yep. So it's really, really, really sad all the years and ending up here at this table tonight, talking about this and the song and,

and what it means to all of us and our families and how we really feel like we said something and did something really cool. You know, it's a great journey. I love looking back on that. It's just the beginning. Yeah, it is. It is. For sure. Jason, did you realize, I mean, obviously you knew that these guys are great players and songwriters, you know, talking about Curt and Tully, but did...

Did you realize that they were going to turn out to be international podcast sensations? Every time, every time we do like a, every time we do like a, an acoustic in the round thing or something, I always try to get these guys to like, you know, talk a little bit and banner with me. And it's like, like,

Like, come on, man. Let's go. I know, right? Well, Richie's always... We can't get a word in with Richie back there. So it's actually... This is the side. This is actually the side of these guys that I want everybody to see. It's the side that we all... This is how we are on the road, like on the bus. We need to have Rich in here, actually. Oh, yeah.

I did his podcast. You did? He just can't let Richie steer the ship. I did. He's great. He's got a great podcast. I did his podcast, went on there. He and I sang Night Train. He played behind me. It was fantastic. Really? Oh, yeah. You'll have to be here. We should get him. You'll have to come back for another appearance to have Richie here. I may end up here a lot. Hey, I endorsed his book.

No. Yes. You know, I tell you this. I love that dude. The baddest, baddest man on the drums. Like this, the heartbeat of this band. Like it's, for years we did it four piece. It's looking back on that. It's the thing about it. Think about going out four piece. Yeah. I mean, we just...

it was, and you guys, Hey, Wade, we got to have rich Redmond on the show. Yeah. Hey, wait, can you make that happen? Uh, but you know, you're touching on it and it's like, there's so many years and so many experiences, uh,

What's it been? 25 years? Is that right? That's 25 years since I met Tully. Okay, so 24 for us and 20-ish for, you know... Rich was there pretty much right after, too. Right. It's over 20 years for all of us. We've been through, to say a lot is actually probably making... It's an understatement. We've been through a lot. We're brothers. We're stronger because of all the experiences that we've been through together. And it's crazy because...

Like that doesn't happen, right? You don't see people together for that long and especially in bands. Right. And I think somebody always gets pissed about this or that they leave or, you know, and it's just never been like that. I don't think with the, especially with the four of us, you kind of talked about it too. It's like, we all kind of, even though we didn't know it at the time, um,

with there's a lot of similar values. There is, even though like you guys talked about, you're from New York and you're from Georgia. Shoot. I'm from the middle of nowhere, Iowa, but there is similarities. And you know, these guys were talking to, it's like, we're all from divorced families, right?

being a huge influence in our lives. Our dads actually were all involved in music, which played a big part in all of our lives. Which is how we got in it. Yeah. You know, but the moms were really the backbone of raising us and making sure, you know, my parents were divorced. My dad lived in Florida. My mom lived in Georgia. And

And so my dad was amazing, but like he just wasn't close, you know, right? So the moms pick up the slack on all that stuff and get you to ball games and school. And we all kind of, you know, same sort of deal. So I think we kind of bonded over that a lot. Rich is, you know, he's spoiled. His parents are together. Oh, your parents are still together? Braggart.

You got to eat real meat? I got to be with Rich. My parents are still hanging on with him. Not that? Seriously, I mean, we joke about this all the time. It was like, you know, I don't think any of our families were well off at all, right? I mean, borderline struggling. Let's just say struggling. Pot and meat sandwiches with a side of Vienna sausages. I never thought we'd talk about pot and meat on this. How much sodium can a kid take in? I mean...

He's made a ham sandwich with that Carl Buddig ham. It's so damn thin you could read a newspaper through it. For some reason, we're the only three people that know this. We used to feed it to my dog, I swear. You fed it to your dog? It was so cheap, you just had a bunch of it in there and you fed it to the dog. So you were richer than you're leading on. It was like 10 cent a bag. This is the shittiest ham you could get.

I think they still sell it, actually. We had four kids. That thing, like you said, it was seriously 29 cents or something. Oh, it was so thin. A bag. There's eight slices. You'd have to put a whole pack in there to make it feel like you had some meat on your sandwich. Do they really sell it still? Do you know? They have to.

Hey, Wade, you got to check that out. Do they sell Carl Buddy? Carl Buddy. If he's still alive, his ham is the fittest. It might be the new sponsor. It might be the new sponsor. Let's go. As interesting as this is.

You guys got a new tour coming up fairly soon, right? June-ish. Well, we got the Rock the Country stuff coming up. You've got a good break. So y'all write a lot during this time? Like, do you just catch up with your families and stuff? For me, this is kind of my time to, you know, hang with the family, you know, go on some trips and kind of spend some time with them. Because once the touring kicks up, it's like...

You know, you can't really book anything. I mean, we're gone every Wednesday to Sunday. And, you know, you got a few days at home every week for about six months. And that's about it. So this time for me, I kind of try and spend some time with the family, hang out and do some things I know I'm not going to get to do in a few months. That's going to be good. We're thinking about if you'll allow it, we could maybe come out and do a little podcast on the road out there with you guys. Come find y'all.

You know, maybe play a little golf while we're out there. Maybe golf on the bus. Do a writer's retreat down in Georgia or Florida too. Go down and get it. Golf, I'm in. You know, speaking of golf, and you were talking about Trump earlier, you played golf with Trump, right? Of course, man, a couple times. He's pretty good. First, yeah, is he a good golfer? He kicked my ass, yeah. No, he did not. Yeah, man. I mean, he just hits it straight, you know, which is...

If you're a golfer, that's half the battle. It looks like he's coming over the top, but he actually drops it in the slot. He's a great putter, and it's always in the fairway. That's everything. It's always in the fairway. He keeps it available. That's everything. He's good. Got to give him his props. You're number one in the church. I'm number one in the church. He's number one in the polls, baby. That's how we want to see it. Just getting started. We're talking about golf, and we were set up to play with John Daly over at Old Matches, right? Yeah.

And so, and I think we had played a St. Jude benefit in Chattanooga. And so, but didn't know each other really, you know, and anyways, we talked a little bit on the range and everything, and they paired us up and you're driving our cart and everything. And I was thinking, man, John Daly, this is amazing, man. I'm a terrible golfer. And you're, you're actually, you're, you're, you were driving the cart. And it was at the day Daly came in, he,

He came in at nine o'clock in the morning. From the bar? From the bar that they kept open. And he had, you know, one of the bartenders, you know, on his lap, you know, driving up barefooted. Him and Steve. Yeah, him and Steve, barefooted. And then we teed off and everything. And, you know, you know me, everybody has a different personality. And I'm a people pleaser by nature. And I'm sitting there, Jason Aldean, I just don't want to mess this day up.

Just don't want to mess it up. Just be nice. Maybe be funny here and there. And so we teed off and we're just driving down the way and everything. And I said, wow, man, it's really cool to be playing with John Daly. And Jason said, he goes, yeah, it's really cool. I mean, you had to think that he'd want to play with us. And Jason looked over at me like,

I mean, yeah, I mean, he's barefooted. I mean, no, I mean golfing. Yeah, like golfing ability. And Jason just kind of drove along. I thought, well, that's it. That's over. That relationship's over. We've got 17 more holes to redeem myself.

Daly just texted me last week, man. He's awesome. He's a lot of fun. I can't play. I've heard. You look like you can play. Jason told me something about your 20s. His outfit is rad. Yeah, yeah. I got knickers, the whole thing. The old ladies love me. He's got a scratch outfit. His outfit. Really? Is intimidating. Now, when I tee off...

- It's like an octopus falling out of a tree. - I love to get out there, but it's the most terrifying, awkward thing for me to do. And everybody's looking at me and you know, got caddies there. These poor caddies got to chase my ball 35 feet into the woods. - We played in Pebble Beach and you know, I don't know if you played there, but they announce you on the first tee. They announce you on the first tee and there's a gallery. There's camera, there's everything there.

And you actually might have teed off. Brady just. He just lost one, yes. He had the same spot. Sorry, Tom. No, shaking, terrifying. But you put one dead center. That might be the secret to it. I can only play pebble. But then he hit one on the cliff that goes down to the water. Two twigs like this, and his ball was sitting right in between. Took a 17 on that hole, I think. Yeah.

It's so frustrating because I want to be good at golf and my friends are pretty good. These guys can, they're pretty good. Neil, you're,

It's ridiculous. Kalo, you said you weren't good, and now I'm finding out you were. No, no, no. Don't listen to him. Yeah, see, I don't like that. He hasn't played in a while. He has a new baby. He didn't have time to practice. I get it. Maybe someday I'll... Yeah, you guys got to get on the road. We'll do a five-star. Well, now that I work for you, and you, and you, we'll have time. We'll have time to get out. Y'all just started a whole new company, right? Yeah, we...

Got into the publishing game, man. So, Niels just signed your deal yesterday. So, welcome to the show. Come on, Niels. We should do a shot. Hey, Wade. Let's toast. All right, I'll do a toast. Here's to you guys for having the balls to write this song. Thank you so much. Here's to you for having the balls to cut it. And here's to everybody who got where the song was coming from and supported it. Thank you guys so much. Thank you, brother. Absolutely, 100%.

Thank you.