My Husband Says He Doesn’t Love Me Anymore
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Coming up on the Dr. John Deloney Show. What happened today? Just some text messages that we were having. What did he say? He doesn't believe he is in love with me anymore. Sorry, but that's not my question. Yeah, this isn't a call about how to talk to your husband about low testosterone. This is a conversation about two people that need to have some pretty serious conversations about the status of their relationship. What up? What up? This is John with the Dr. John Deloney Show. I'm so glad that you have joined us.

on this show we talk to hurting people going through hard stuff whether it is families whether it's your relationships whether it's your kids your psychological or emotional health whatever you got going on in your life

My promise is I'll sit with you, I'll walk with you, and we'll figure out what's the next right move. If you want to be on the show, give me a buzz at 1-844-693-3291. It's 1-844-693-3291, or go to johndeloney.com slash ask, A-S-K. All right, let's roll out to St. Louis, Missouri, and talk to Taylor. Hey, Taylor, what's up? Hey, John, how are you? I'm good, how are you? Good.

I'm hanging in there. Good. What's up? How can I help? So basically my question is we recently found out my husband, we're both 27, has really, really low testosterone levels. And I'm kind of left to not know the best way to help support him because he doesn't really communicate well with me on how to do that. And I was hoping you could give me some tools. Man, that's...

I feel like there's a lot in this question. So do you know his number off the top of your head, what his free tea was? I want to say it was $200 or $300, which it's supposed to be like $800 or $1,000, so it's really low. Is he overweight?

In the last year or so, he's gained a little bit of weight. Not anything to where it's like morbidly obese, but I guess 50 or 60 pounds that he's been struggling with. That's actually what got us to figure going to get that tested because he was struggling with maintaining and losing weight. Okay. What about stress levels? Our marriage is going through a lot right now. Tell me about that. Okay.

We've been together since we were 19. And sorry, he just had a thing that really happened today and I'm trying not to focus on that. He's struggling with wanting to remain in our marriage and work through a lot of hard things. What happened today, Taylor? I had just some text messages that we were having, saying some things on how he felt. And that just, I guess I haven't heard it out loud yet today. I'm sorry. What did he say?

He doesn't believe he is in love with me anymore. Okay. I'm sorry. But that's not my question. Well, but it all works together. It all works together. Cause here's the thing. Low, low, low testosterone. And there's, I won't get into all the nerd stuff. I'll get way out over my skis.

But here's the thing. My guess is he's had a lack of libido or a lack of ability to keep an erection with you or just not wanting to be with you. Is that where a lot of the conversation started?

Actually, it's kind of the opposite. I'm the one that struggles with sex, and he doesn't really have an issue with that. He has a lot of depression that he's been struggling with for a long time. Okay, so where does the low T come in? And I'm sorry, usually that's where this conversation begins. Yeah. Why...

Tell me how the conversation with low testosterone even came up. Why'd you go get tested? So when he was struggling with it, I kept trying to get him to go to a doctor to get just information and different stuff. And he's not really big on doctors for a lot of reasons, but I finally convinced him to go to one of those health weight management clinics and they tested his blood. We were thinking it was going to be something metabolism-wise.

or some other thing related. But then when it came back, the lady said that that's more than likely his main issue. And then everything's just, that's only been two weeks now. I finally got him to go to a doctor after that. He's got another two weeks before his actual doctor's appointment now to get that addressed. But it's just kind of like he told me it. And then when I asked him more, he was just like, I just, it's just a problem I have to fix. Yeah.

Yeah, this isn't a call about how to talk to your husband about low testosterone. Okay. This is a conversation about two people that need to have some pretty serious conversations about the status of their relationship. We have been for the last week or two since that test. How long has this been going on? For a long time? Yeah. Yeah. Unfortunately. Yeah.

So what do you want to do? I mean, when it comes to his low testosterone, my hope is, my hope, hope, hope is he doesn't just run into one of these TRT clinics and the testosterone replacement therapy and they just start injecting him and he's off to the races there. My hope is they really start with lifestyle adaptation, which is sleep and lifting weights and eating right and trying to reduce stress and really...

heal the closest relationships. I mean, there's so much stressors that can affect that. But again,

That's not the conversation here. The fact that he won't talk to you is less about the TRT. I thought he wouldn't talk to you because he was embarrassed about impotence. He was embarrassed about erectile dysfunction or he's embarrassed about not wanting to be with you sexually or intimately. That has nothing to do with this, right? It's you that don't want to be with him. I mean, you're just telling me thing after thing that says this relationship's on real, real, real thin ice. So take me to the real question beneath all of it.

Because, I mean, you're holding a text that he sent today that says, I'm not in love with you anymore. And you're calling me and ask, how do I talk to him about a conversation between him and his doctor? There seems to be a divorce of reality here.

I guess it's how to get him to talk to me about how he feels in general because we have all these conversations in person. And then the next morning he goes to work and then after an hour or so sends me a text about something huge instead of in person. Yeah. Have you said, stop texting me? We're going to have this in person? Because that's, I mean, that's pretty cowardly behavior.

He says he has a hard time talking in person because I talk a lot. I talk a mile a minute. You've got to stop, Taylor. Whatever that looks like for you, whether that's I'm going to ask you to speak and I promise I won't say a word until you ding this bell on the counter or whatever. But if that's the only place he can get a word in edgewise, if he's being a coward, if he's wimping out, if y'all are having these important conversations about the future or the future

status of your marriage and he's just saying no it's all great it's all good and the next day he bombs you with these text message grenades then that's not cool that's cowardly if he sits down and you just steamroll him and talking back is futile because he can't think as fast as you or can't can't he's not as snappy and quick in his responses as you are and you just bulldoze him then that's something you've got to address

And I understand that that's something that I've done and we've both been doing therapy individually and together for the better part of a year. And I've been trying really hard to address that. I've been catching myself a lot and other things, but he's, I think my thing is now that I'm trying not to do anything, he's still just being quiet. And I guess that's, I mean, obviously it's my fault for being talk, not talkative, but

you know, bulldozing, as you said, but. Am I wrong? If you're not bulldozing, then tell me so. But if you say, yeah, I am. I used to really bad. And now when we talk, I'm sitting there, I'll even have something to fidget with to sit and wait for responses. But he just says, he's either quiet or he just says, I don't know to everything or. Is he allowed to know?

I try to communicate that even if it's something that hurts me, I want to know. But behavior is a language. And so what do you tell him even when you're not talking? I guess I don't know that. Okay. Because if he feels more comfortable telling me in text, then that means that even if I'm thinking I'm not bulldozing, I'm obviously still somehow not being a person that he can talk to and come to. Yeah.

I wonder what would happen, and it may fall completely flat, Taylor, so I don't know. But I wonder what would happen if you responded to the text he sent you today with, I'm so sorry I haven't created a safe enough space for you to tell me this in person. We'll talk about it tonight. We actually have a therapy session tonight, so I can. I mean, there's been a few things back and forth since, but that's...

Yeah, I mean, I should have said that. I think I just, I've gotten so used to him talking more through text to me than anything else that I take what I can get. Yeah, I mean, I get that. I mean, it's like being underwater and breathing through a straw. You take the air that you can get, right? But it's not life-giving and it's not life-sustaining after a while. But again, I'm interested in your distraction by the low T-score.

I guess I just was... I feel like your house is on fire and I'm the lawn guy. And you're like, hold on, we're going to talk about this edging here and the house is like burning down. In my defense, when I submitted the question, I thought things were going a different way. Okay, okay, all right, all right. That's super fair. That's fair. Can we role play something? Sure. Okay.

The therapist, I'll be your husband and you be you. And we're sitting down either in two chairs by each other or on the same couch in a marriage counselor's office. And the counselor looks at you tonight, Taylor, and says, Taylor, we've talked for the last year on different issues. Beneath all of it, I want you to look at your husband and I want you to actually tell him what scares you to death. And Taylor, I want you to tell me. I think it's him scared he's going to leave.

And that all of my work is too late because of all the years I've hurt before. Okay. Have you hurt him for a long time? Unintentionally. Okay. Have you held his face and looked him in the eyes and said, I'm sorry, I'm going to be different? Yeah. Okay. Thank you for that. I think he needs to hear that. And what you might find is, and maybe it's worth saying out loud, I understand you're done with our old marriage. What I'm asking you is, will you build something new?

The great Esther Perel says adults have three to five marriages, four or five marriages in their adulthood. They're married to multiple people. Yeah, I screwed that up. She says they have three to four to five deep, passionate loves in their adult lifetime. And if they work really hard, it's with the same person. I've heard you say that before. If you can say, you married this woman and I'm going to become somebody who accepts you and loves you and welcomes you and provides a safe place for you.

Is that fair? That's what I want to do. I just don't know if he believes in me. I mean, again, behavior is a language. It doesn't matter a lot what you say. It matters who you are and what you've become over the last few months, last few years. True. Are you proud of the momentum you have? Yeah. I've made a lot of changes. What's one or two action steps you've taken?

One of the harder things is I had to mostly remove my parents from my life because they were very toxic people, but I was used to hanging on to their every word kind of thing. And I've been trying to make sure my first answer to everything isn't to start a fight because apparently that was something I did a lot. Yeah. I'm proud of you for making those changes. Thank you.

I think tonight, if you want to save your marriage, I think you go in and you let him know, I want to fight to save our marriage. I want to fight to rebuild a brand new thing together. Yeah. And I think the red herring of, well, you won't talk to me about your doctor's test. He's going to probably think, I don't talk to you about anything. Yeah. You know what I mean? Like, I don't know why you're focused on that thing. And I think getting to the core root of the issue here, which is I think I'm losing my marriage. I think my husband's done.

And I need to make sure I look across the couch tonight and he sees me and I am completely vulnerable and open and say, I don't want to lose you. And I'm working hard. Will you build something new with me? Thank you for that call, Taylor. That's a heavy, heavy, heavy one. Man, when you started mentioning low testosterone, I did not see the call going this way, but thank you so much for opening up.

I wish you guys the absolute best and hope you'll reach out after your session tonight and let me know. And I'd love it if he called in and talk as well. Wish you guys the best, the best, the best. And by the way, if men or women, if you're listening to this, if you do go get tested and you have low testosterone, go see your doctor and y'all come up with a plan. Hopefully that is action first.

therapeutic second but man that's an important important switch to make sure you get flipped on and get right and it does have a dramatic impact in your overall health and wellness and vitality and just life so if you are feeling sluggish if you're feeling like like whatever go get your testosterone check men and women go get a check that's important thanks for the call taylor let me know how it goes we'll be right back

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All right, let's go out to Greenville, South Carolina and talk to Layla. You got me on the news. What's up, Layla? Hey, John. I hope you're having a good day so far. It's getting there. How about you?

Yes, I am. Thank you. Excellent. What's up? So I'm 28 years old, and I've just been making a lot of changes in the last year. Listening to you and the Ramsey Show, I'm on Baby Step 2, and I'm just learning all kinds of better behaviors every day. So I just wanted to say thank you for all of the progress so far and in advance for this, what we're about to do. Awesome.

Awesome. Well, I say this all the time. I don't do anything. I just talk with people on the phone. You guys are out there all over the country changing your lives day in and day out. So you're the hero here. I'm proud of you, Layla. Good for you. Thank you. So Taylor said this is supposed to be like calling a friend. So I wanted to start off with just some background info that a friend would know about me. Okay, cool.

Okay. So I grew up really close with my grandma and I just watched her work for herself and help people in a real way with therapeutic massage and just pain relief in general. Um, so I thought, wow, how cool just to be independent, um, make your own schedule and not have to work for anybody. And, um, I made that a goal. So that's what we have going on now. Um,

About nine years ago, I moved back to South Carolina. This is where I was born, but from Colorado where I had been in high school and stuff. So,

When I moved back to be closer to my grandma, I started working with her and learning how to manage the business, and she wanted me to take it over. So when she retired, her clients had somebody, and that also happened. So...

things got really intertwined because when I moved here she was going through a divorce and she had moved into the house that's also on the business property so she had made the massage office in this smaller detached garage space which is a beautiful massage office that she's had for like 30 years and then she moved into the house that's separate from it and

And after the divorce, she was she ended up with her primary home and she wanted to she well, she let me and my boyfriend rent it from her. So we moved in here at like 20 and 21.

and rented from her. And then she, a year later, offered to sell it to me. So she knew I wasn't really ready to purchase a home. So we sat down with a lawyer and just did it per contract, which turned out to be okay. But I'm putting that in there because towards the, after some more information, you'll understand. Wait, so she sold you the house, but she's holding the paper. She's the bank?

Correct. Yes. Oh, no. I always recommend nobody do this. I know. I've come to find out. Right? Oh, man. And that's what it's gotten a little difficult because now she has Alzheimer's. It's gotten huge difficult. How much did you buy this house for? She... No, no, no. Stop saying she. What did you buy this house for?

I bought this house for $220,000. As a 22-year-old massage therapist? Yes, with my boyfriend living in. Is he on the note too?

No, he's not. She made that clear that that was between she and I. Thank God. You would have talked about a super mess then. Right. Take me all the way down to the question. This is a big old mess, but I imagine it's worse. Yeah. I have to stay really specific. I kind of have an outline in front of me. Keep going. My grandmother also got remarried.

And she had, you know, we had a great few years there. She had moved her husband into the house with her. I worked with her in the back and she was aiming towards retiring. So she retired a couple of years ago and then she started getting Alzheimer's and her husband started getting dementia and they just couldn't keep anything straight between the two of them. And then he

was not the kind of person that could handle that stress. And he would put it on her and she couldn't handle it. And then she started having panic attacks that sent her to the hospital with stroke level blood pressures and, um,

just chest pains. So they went through all of those things multiple times. Like I was going to the hospital with her about once a week and she just wanted me there to take care of her because she trusts me. And like, we have that kind of relationship. Where's your mom in all of this?

Her daughter. They live up north in North Carolina. Okay. Up in Raleigh. And she also has two sons. One lives close in town, and then the other lives in Washington State. Okay.

And so my grandma had kind of legalized it with me before she ever started having these problems, but I'd be her POA, medical POA. And we had all that done, like I said, before she started having any problems. Okay, so bring me to right now. She is...

living alone because we got her out of that messy abusive relationship because he just started going downhill a lot quicker than her and now as she needs more care and I'm like in the last two years I've become responsible for her finances and her medical appointments and her pillbox um

groceries now. I mean, just she doesn't really do anything for herself anymore. And as I try to make decisions, like I think she would make or like, I think that would like improve her life. Um, I find, I, I doubt myself. Um, I just worry about her a lot. Yeah. How old is she? Um,

She just turned 82. Okay. And you're 23? Now I'm 28. Okay, you're 28. So this has been going on for years. This has been a long time, but it's just now gotten worse because, well, she's living alone and she just requires a lot more care. She needs to go to a home, Layla, or to get in-home skilled nursing. It's just exceeded your ability to help.

And that's not a bad thing. Yeah, and she wants to stay in her home as long as she can. Of course she does. Listen, everybody wants to stay in their home as long as they can. Not everybody, most people do. And sometimes it's cruel to allow somebody what they want when it's not safe or it's not healthy. Right. It's cruel. It's the least kind thing you can do. Does she have any sort of...

Does she have resources that she can sell off or that she can... Does she have a retirement plan? How is she funding all this? Well, that's kind of how all of this came up is she has this nest egg that I haven't had to touch yet because...

her social security pays her expenses every month but when I'm looking to hire some help like off of like a caregiver company I just worry that it's not the right time how much is in the nest egg? about $40,000 $40,000? yes yeah that's not a nest egg that's you'll go through that in six months

Yeah. And the business, you know, my business being right there behind her, her home, her primary home is paid for. I know, but that's her nest egg. How much is that house worth? Half a million dollars in Colorado? We're in Greenville. Oh, you're in South Carolina. Okay. Yeah. So is that house worth, how much is that house worth?

About $300,000, probably. But then I sell what I've been... She's been wanting me to take over and she's kind of put me in this position where it's easy to take care of her after work and at lunch. And that will only last so far. But I've just been trying to...

Not give that up. I know. I know. It's a lot, huh? Yeah. She's very proud. I know. Of everything. And you are too. And you should be proud. She should be proud. She did this as a single mom. Her own kids aren't even involved. She's been standing on her own two feet for a long time, hadn't she? Right. Yeah. And that was very inspiring. Yeah, but it's inspiring, but it can also be an illness. Yeah.

It's cool to see somebody like the lone. It's cool to see like that guy, James Dean, like on a motorcycle with a cigarette. Like, yeah, it's not cool to see him with lung cancer, right? Because this strong, independent, I'll do it myself woman, she has nobody now but her granddaughter who's trying to make her own life, right?

Yes. Yeah. And so that pride, that strength is so cool. But man, when you spend time in end-of-life care with people, it's devastating to have somebody that nobody comes to visit, their own kids don't call. I'm haunted by the fact that you're even in this position. And those three kids haven't made phone calls together to sit down and talk about what we're going to do with mom. That's wild to me.

Yeah, I think to me too. And to her as well. She voices that. She says, why don't my kids care about me? Or I don't know what I must have done. And I'm like, I just, I say you did the best you could. You know, you always, I've been learning so many things.

better responses. Okay. So she's really come down, come down to like a clear point. So I can, I can help you. Um, what do you need me to help you with? I guess, um, when I'm, when I'm making these decisions for her, that she's, um,

put me in the position to do, how do I not care about what the rest of our family thinks? Because they're, like you said, not calling and trying to put a plan together. But are they not calling because they're jerks? Are they not calling because it's been made abundantly clear your mom, I mean, your grandma does not want their input or help. Because if I'm you, I would call the three of them and say, this is y'all's mom. I'm out of this.

Now, I'm walking away from all of this. Y'all sell that. This is y'all's mom. Y'all deal with this because they're going to have resources. They get to make the choices about their mom unless their mom has gone in and made you the power of attorney, like all that, and then they might just go, nope, go get it, granddaughter. That would be correct. Okay. If that's what they've done, then they've put you in an incredibly awful position.

But here you are. Here's what you have first and foremost. You have a major math problem. And if you've ever listened to this show, you know I'm overly compassionate and overly heartbroken, and I'll sit with hurting people all day long. You have a math problem. It's very similar to the conversation I've had with several widows whose husbands just died, and they have no life insurance. They have nothing. And they have to go to work on Monday.

They don't have the privilege of grieving because they need groceries and they don't need to lose their home, like their house, right? Right. So you need to sit down with...

Either the attorney that walked through all this stuff with you or get some adult in your life that will go with managed care with you But you're gonna have to sit down and walk through what does this stuff cost or pricing things out in your local area and I don't see a way that you don't end up having to sell this house $40,000. I mean it's it's I think it's four to six grand a month is that what I mean? It's it's astounding how much skilled nursing care is or how much it is to go to a home. I

Yeah, it's like $30 an hour for somebody from a company that's reputable and... Yeah, but that's $30 an hour. That's just to come over and do bath and change bedpan and do medications, right? Right. Yeah, that's not... I mean, how long has she had Alzheimer's? Well, she's had it and been on medication since...

21, so three years. And she's still doing everything else independently besides those things that I listed. Like she just needs her pillbox done, food in there. But listen, you're so close to it.

What you just told me was she can do everything on her own except for food, medicine, and shelter. And bills, yeah. If I wasn't there, everything would be cut off. That's everything. She can't do anything without you. She is completely a dependent. Okay? This is just you sitting in the grief that is reality. And as a dependent, the same as if you were a mom of a small child,

who needs care. If you can't afford the house, you sell the house and move to an apartment. And if you can't afford the apartment, you get rid of the apartment and you move in with a friend. You do what you got to do to survive. Right. And you have a math problem ahead of you. Because if she lives another five or six years at 4,000 times 12, 4,000 bucks a month times 12 months in a year, that can add up real, real quick, can't it? Right, yep.

Yeah. And you've got this business tangled up in that and I'm heartbroken for you. You've been working there for years, building clientele, building a space. I totally get it. And you had this dream. Y'all probably spent lots of nights having a glass of wine talking about the dream of you're going to take my business and then you're going to give it to... I get that, man. I get it. I get it. I get it. And she's got nobody else. That is such a

That's an accurate description and it is so heartbreaking. I know, I know, I know. Because like my brain has just been going, okay, if I can make more money, if I can grow the business, if I can... You can't, you can't. It just is. It just is. It just is. I'm so sorry.

But here's your path forward. I want you to find an adult that you trust, okay? I want you to find an adult that you trust, preferably somebody with some sort of experience in this world. There may be a friend of yours who's a social worker. There may be a friend at local elder care resources in your local community. There may be a friend at your church. I don't know, but find an adult who's a couple of years ahead of you.

who's walked down this path before. Every community is different. Every community has different resources. Every individual situation is different. Whoever's managing her quote unquote nest egg, if you have a financial advisor who can sit down

I work at Ramsey Solutions and we partner with people called SmartVestor Pros. I can put you in contact with them. And if you hang on the line here, somebody that will at least look at your entire pack, your situation, your grandma's entire situation, including social security, whatever that was coming in with that. But it might mean you sell the house. It might mean you find a buyer for the massage business.

And you have to sell that. It might mean you're out looking for work. It might mean you have to go work for another employer, like working hourly as a massage therapist for somebody while all this happens. But you got a math problem. And underneath the math problem, you got all these deep, deep feelings of grief, of sadness, of it wasn't supposed to be this way. And I'm with you. And also, thank God she's got a house worth $300,000.

Thank goodness she has a business. Maybe it's worth $50,000. Maybe it's worth $100,000. Thank goodness she's got 40 grand. Thank goodness she's got social security. There's not going to be anything left over for you or for her kids when she passes. But all this money was for this moment when she needs exceptional care handling Alzheimer's in the last years of her life. Just needs someone to steward it and manage it. And I'm sorry you're on an island all by yourself. If you can call your mom, if you can call your uncles,

at least one of them to walk with you. That'd be cool. But thanks for the call, Laila. I'm so sorry. I'm just so sorry. Sometimes those things that we admire the most in people end up also being one of their biggest challenges as time marches on. Thanks for the call, sister. Call anytime. We'll be right back. Yo, yo, it's Deloney from my friends at Helix, the creators of the greatest mattresses in the universe.

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Go to helixsleep.com slash Deloney for 20% off. That's helixsleep.com slash Deloney. Because with Helix, better sleep starts right now. All right, let's go out to Phoenix, Arizona and talk to Laura. Hey, Laura, what's up? So my question is, how do I help my adopted son through some of his issues that were part of his past and address his severe ADHD? Okay.

Sometimes those are two separate things. Often they're intertwined, but let's approach them separately. Tell me about your adopted son.

So, he's eight years old. We fostered him from three to five years old, and we adopted him when he was five years old. He is my nephew by blood. My brother is his biologic dad. And

When he was born, he had meth and heroin in his system and some other issues as well. And so anyways, DCS got involved and we ended up fostering him when he was three years old. Can I stop you right there for a second? Yes. Can I just tell you, I'm glad that I had the honor of talking with someone as cool as you today.

Thank you. I know you feel like a mess sometimes, and I know having a young kid that can't and or finds it really challenging to behave in your house makes you feel like you live in a failure factory sometimes, but I'm freaking proud of you. I'm proud that I get to talk to you today. Thank you. Thank you for being one of those kind of people that steps up and helps love people even in the mess.

Thank you. It's awesome. All right. I know that doesn't pay your light bill and that doesn't help your little boy, but man, it's, I don't get to talk to heroes very often and you're one of them. So thank you. Thank you. Okay. So, and we're back.

So right now what we're dealing with is just he has a lot of questions about his past, and we just don't know how to respond all the time to those questions. And he does have some trouble at school as well with his focusing. He has an IEP problem.

And he does get help, but we just really don't know exactly what to do and how to help him and move forward. Is he under the care of a psychologist or a child therapist? So he just went to a neuropediatric psychologist, and he...

was diagnosed with severe ADHD. He is behind academically, but she didn't find anything else wrong with him besides the severe ADHD and being behind. Okay. What did she recommend as therapeutic modalities? She recommended time medication. I just nerded out. I'm sorry. What did she recommend that you guys do?

She said it could be life-changing to try medication on him with how severe his past was. And so we've,

We've always tried to avoid the medication because we know that he was born with drugs in his system and we just weren't sure because he's got other health conditions as well and we weren't sure if adding to it would be an issue. But we're willing to try it for sure. We're just not sure if we should do it now or away. What other health problems does he have?

He has a rare form of anemia. He used to have to get blood transfusions every three weeks, but now he only gets them twice a year because we removed his spleen, and that helped his condition immensely. Cool. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. All right. So I'm going to preface everything in a very particular way, okay? Is that cool? Yeah.

Yes. So I want to bracket everything I'm about to tell you with I'm literally wearing a punk rock t-shirt and I'm a YouTuber and we have never met. Okay? Mm-hmm. And so everything I'm going to tell you is only couched in what I would do in your situation if this was my kid. Okay. Okay? Number one...

I would turn off all of the Googling and I would stop Googling everything. Okay. You're going to make yourself nuts. I would also stop all the social media ink because you're going to make yourself nuts there too. Okay. All right. So that's number one. Number two, um,

If you've ever heard me talk about childhood ADHD, you know where I stand on some of these things. And I have a, just listening to you walk through several things, I think your psychologist, your child psychologist may be right. Mm-hmm.

So if you tried low doses, I won't go through them all, but here's what I would ask of my child psychologist. And the psychologist can't prescribe medicine, so we'd have to go to a family practitioner or we'd have to go to a psychiatrist. My preference would be to get in with a child psychiatrist. They just sometimes the wait list can be six months long in some of those. Here would be my dream is that you would sit down with a psychiatrist and say, can we start...

with a comically low dose and work up instead of playing darts from the top down. Okay. I had one buddy of mine who's a physician who said, if somebody's already struggling, starting at the lowest dose and cutting it in half, I mean, they're going to struggle for another 30 days and we're going to get some answers versus just going in with an entire army of stuff and going, what just happened? Right. And so that, that,

That'd be a question to ask in a psychiatrist who's looking at this report, looking at the psychologist report, especially if they're a reputable psychiatrist. I mean, a psychologist will look at it and go, actually, I think this is the right move here. Okay, tell the psychiatrist, I'm nervous to put my kid on amphetamine. I'm nervous to medicate them. They've had other medical issues and they will wade through that.

But I want you to be an informed parent saying, if possible, can we start low and go up? Okay? That's number one. Okay. Number two, I would strongly, strongly, strongly recommend getting your kid in with some sort of child therapist, play therapist, and or physical therapist.

A lot of the emerging ADHD literature, especially when it comes to interventions, solutions, what do you do, right, has to do with winning both socially and winning physically, regaining control of your body. And I've seen it, and it's borderline magic watching young ADHD minds engage in long-term physical therapy.

where they begin to have mastery over teeny tiny parts of their, like their fingers and their feet and jumping and falling and having time with a physical therapist. It's pretty amazing. It doesn't always work, but it's, I've been compelled. And I remember the first time somebody told me that I said, I haven't seen that in any literature. I've never seen it. And she just smiled at me and she goes, just watch. Okay. And starting with play therapy allows a young child, especially how old is this little boy?

Eight. Yeah. It allows this eight-year-old to tell his story and children speak through play. And so I would strongly recommend that. And here's what a good child therapist will do. They will work through play therapy and they will eventually move them into some sort of group.

Mm-hmm. Where social interaction is slowly moderated, and it is, like, they gently open their hands and let them go. But kids who have struggled with childhood trauma, kids who have gone from house to house, kids whose dad's in jail. What happened with your brother, by the way?

He actually did get sober. Okay. And the bio mom isn't in the picture at all. And our son doesn't know...

she even existed. Um, but, uh, he did have a relationship with his bio dad because, um, when we fostered him for those couple of years, he still saw him. And so, and, and he did get sober and, um, he continues to be sober. So he does still see him two times a month. And so is that a good idea?

We've been on the fence about it. Okay. Because our son loves him so much. Like, it's so exciting to see him. I know. And so, yeah, it's... Is he still in jail?

No, so he never actually went. Okay. With some of the charges that he had, he was possibly going to go. And that's the other thing we struggle with is our son actually knew that because when we were fostering him, his bio dad told him that. Oh, God. I mean, that goes back to, is that a good idea, right? Yeah, yeah.

And my fear for you guys is that y'all become the fun ruiners, the ones who foot all the bills, the ones who have to actually give this kid safety and boundaries. And dad gets to carry on with his nonsense. And I know it's your brother. Don't talk ill of your brother, but he gets to carry on with his- Oh, it's okay. He gets to carry- Yeah, you're like, I've been living this crap for years. But he gets to carry on with his nonsensical life, and he basically gets this toy that he gets to send home.

Yeah. Right. So we can tell all his stories and yeah, bro. And like, and here's the deal about this, about your son, your son innately knows half of me is that guy. Yeah. And so if that guy's evil, half of me is evil. And by the way, where's my mom? Well, that's the other thing we're dealing with too, is like, he gets more obsessed with kind of like the villain or the bad guy. Of course. You know why? And. Cause dad's a bad guy.

Yeah. And I'm like my dad and I want to be like my dad. Yeah. You get what I'm saying? Yeah. And that's where autonomy and control and social. So identifying with dad is how he wins right now. That's how he justifies how he feels inside because he feels yucky inside. And giving him something that he feels good about him inside. Yeah.

but it has to come from the inside out. It can't be something that you hand him. So that's why I hope this makes sense what I'm saying because I realize I can sound like I'm talking gibberish here. If you hand him love and you hand him connection,

That's external. It's coming from the outside in, okay? As an adult, you and I can absorb that. As a kid, their nervous system absorbs it, but his intellect doesn't. His intellect knows my dad's a bad guy. He almost went to jail. And I guarantee you, your brother pumps that up, right? Tells some of the stories. They didn't even get me, and I did this. And he gets it from dad. And he knows part of me is my dad.

Yeah. Right. And so he has to, from the inside out, realize he's good. And from the inside out, he's going to realize he's good when other kids don't run away from him on the playground. Yeah. He's going to realize he's good when someone says, hey, I need you to sit down and he sits down. He's able to control it. Or somebody else says, hey, you got to see on this and he doesn't just haul off and flip the table over. Yeah. Then he's going to have that stillness from the inside out. Is that making sense?

Yeah, definitely. Definitely. Yes. Yes. Making lots of sense. So the worst thing I have to tell you here is this is going to be an expensive, frustrating road. Yeah. The thing I want to leave you with is I want out in the distance in those nights when you were laying in bed and you and your husband are sitting there and you're looking up at the sky in the ceiling and you're wondering, did you do the right thing? And I hate my brother and this kid's going to

I want to shine a light in that darkness because I think he's got a shot because he's got you. Yeah. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. But I want to focus on the wins biochemically if necessary. And dude, if you sit down and you tell a psychiatrist, hey, we just started child therapy. We just started play therapy. We're starting physical therapy. He's got an IEP in school. The psychiatrist may say, hey, let's wait 30 days. Let's wait 60 days.

Mm-hmm. Just see? Yeah. And he may say, no, no, no, no, this is a pretty severe case. He's been through a lot of trauma. He's been through a lot of stuff. Let's go ahead and give him a low-dose SSRI, and let's start here. Yeah. Actually, it wouldn't be an SSRI. Totally wrong thing. It'd be a low-dose amp, and we're going to go from there. Okay. Yeah, no, that's a great plan moving forward to help us. I just want to...

Give him the best possible outcome for his life. Can I give you two other little like side things that you and your husband can do? Mm-hmm. Is he a ruminator? My husband or our son? No, your son. What does ADHD look like for him?

He has a hard time remembering anything that he did past 20 minutes. Okay. And he, but he does focus in on, he's very creative and he loves drawing. And so when he does focus in on something, he hyper focuses. There you go. Yeah. And, you know, we've, we've signed him. He's in jujitsu. So good. Mom of the year. Yeah. Good. How long has he been doing that?

He's been doing that for like seven or eight months. But we did just recently start private lessons with him because again, we struggled with him being in a group. He, he, he would just kind of start doing his own thing. And, and with, you know, focusing on the moves, it was really hard for him to focus, you know? So we, we,

We turned it into private lessons. But he loves playing with his friends and drawing and playing games, things like that. But yeah, focusing at school is really tough for him. And he does get frustrated. He'll say things to me like, why am I the only kid that can't focus and remember things? Okay. And I think it's letting him know that he's not. Yeah. And maybe show him this show and let him know.

This guy had real bad ADHD. Still does. And it takes an army, but... Yeah. If you two want to be a middling B-level podcaster one day, maybe this guy. But, like, I mean, I'm just going to reiterate, you guys are amazing. Thank you. You're amazing. And jiu-jitsu is a great place where you learn kinetics and body control and impulse control and the next right move and how to fall. And you get that constant...

person-on-person contact. You know what I mean? That's good for you. Good for you. And it might be that he does a private lesson and then goes to the main lesson in a private lesson. Yeah. Right, as he gets it. But anyway, good on you. Good for you. Good for you. The social things, a lot of times kids will love playing with their friends, but eight years old is when they start to split. That second, third grade is when they start to click off and be like, that's just a weird kid.

That's what's starting to happen. That's right. So that's where that child therapy, where it would start with a play therapist and then move to group, would be really instructive for him. Just think about this. And you could tell him this. Learning to be a great friend is just a set of skills. And you just got to learn those skills. It's all good. Yeah. It's all good. And some kids have those and some don't, and that's fine. We're just going to learn how to do those things. And, man, that could be magic for him. Here's a couple things I want you and your husband to do.

If he's ever drawing or coloring, if one or both of you, and I know y'all are exhausted, and when he's coloring is probably the time y'all get to exhale and look at each other and be like, remember we used to love each other, right? Y'all get those moments. If one or both of you, but one of you especially, could just pull up a chair next to him and color and don't say anything. Okay. That proximity, I'm being fully me right now, and they're not leaving.

Got it. You get what I'm saying? You're entering into his world, in his space. His whole life is in other people's spaces and his body revolves. But if an adult heads into his space and just is still, I don't want to say anything. I don't need anything from you. I'm not going to comment on anything unless you show me. And then I'm not going to say, hey, that picture's amazing. I'm going to say, I love how hard you're working.

The second thing I want y'all to do, and it's probably hard because I bet his handwriting is off the charts, Goofy. Is that fair? Yes. Okay. I want y'all to have a spiral notebook that goes back and forth on each other's pillows. And it needs to be one or two sentences and that's it.

But what I want him to have is a sentence from dad and a sentence from mom. And you can alternate. And then his job is every time it's on his pillow, he has to read it. And he's got to write something and put it back on your pillow. And you can even make it a chore. You can have your drawing stuff when you go put the thing on my bed. Great idea. You can expect him to vomit on it. This is so stupid. But I want him to have a running list.

day after day week by week year after year of you and your husband saying how happy they are they they get to be in his life how much you love him how proud of him you are and i want you all to catch him doing good okay we're building this from the inside out he needs to feel from his guts outward that he's good okay we will definitely do that is that cool you're amazing call in any time okay laura call anytime call anytime call anytime

I'll be thinking about this little boy and it's gonna take an army of people. And man, thank goodness. We live in a little history of a little sliver history when we've got resources to help little boys like that, but good on you guys call anytime. And I'll walk with you. My heart goes out to you guys, to your family and to that little boy. I have a feeling he's going to make it and he's going to be pretty amazing. He already is amazing, but he's going to be, he's going to be amazing. Thank you so much, sister. We'll be right back.

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All right. Hey, we are back. Listen, me and my buddy Dave Ramsey are hitting the road on a brand new tour this spring, and we're putting this rad twist on it. Every stop is an interactive night, and you, the audience member, get to help inform what we talk about on stage. We talk about money, relationships, so much more. It's going to be hilarious, stories you'll have never heard before. And the reason I love this is so much of...

Our world is already out there. It's on the internet. We talk about on the show and this event is going to be something that y'all have never seen or heard before. You're going to laugh. You're going to learn. If we do our jobs, you're going to walk out of there and you can be inspired to go change your life. We're kicking this off in Louisville in April 21st, 2025. And then we're going to Durham, Atlanta, Phoenix, Fort Worth, and then Kansas city. Get your tickets to the money and relationships tour at Ramsey solutions.com slash tour. All right, Kelly, thanks.

You got a cool thing that happened. I do. So this is from Liv in Houston. She says, I listened to one of your episodes where you encouraged a woman feeling stuck in her life to write down tangible actions and start doing things to fulfill those actions. I wanted to write in and highlight how important this advice is and how much it's changed my life. My friends and I felt stuck, like we'd lost our sense of self after grad school.

At the beginning of this year, we decided to each make a bingo card full of small and big things we hope to do and accomplish. The bingo cards include things like go on a picnic, pay for someone else's drive-thru, try rock climbing, visit a national park, take a career development class, and more.

We check in once a month to talk about the progress we're making on the bingo card items. I'm feeling like I'm getting to know myself again, and I've never been happier. I wanted to share this idea because it's made such a difference for me and my friends, and I hope it might inspire others as well. Thank you for what you do. Love listening to your show. Tell me more that I can tell you. Dude, that's amazing. Good for them. And I like bingo. I went to a bingo hall when I was in college. It was just me and a couple of buddies and like 600 smokers.

and like trach things and horrible music and it was incredible it was incredible at a level it's like you know what we're gonna be alright as a country because if they ever come for us and they let the bingo hall people go best of luck to you but they're good for you what was her name Liv in Houston H-10 Gastros and Liv

I'm shouting you out, dude. Congratulations on you and your friends getting together and say, hey, what's the thing that we're going to do to make our lives different because we get to decide what happens next and y'all are choosing each other and you're choosing adventure and I'm so proud of you. It's awesome. Let that inspire anybody else listening to this show. Make a bingo card for God's sakes. Don't start smoking. Go change your life. Love you guys. See you soon. Bye.