My Girlfriend Keeps Testing Me
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Coming up on the Dr. John Deloney Show. And she just looks at me and says, we're already thinking about getting engaged and we're thinking about getting married, you know, fairly soon. I'm probably okay if we go ahead and sleep together now. And that's something that we talked about early on, saving ourselves from marriage. And she decided to put it into the test and I failed. Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Dude, run from this.

What's up? What's up? This is John of the Dr. John Deloney Show, talking about your mental and emotional health and your marriage and your kids and whatever else you got going on in the relationships in your life, your mental health, whether you're struggling with your depression, anxiety, OCD, whatever you got going on, or you're struggling with your emotional health, finding joy, laughter, hope, grief, whatever you got going on in your life.

I spent the last two decades sitting with people who are hurting and trying to figure out the next right step. And that's what this show is. It's real people going through real challenges. And my promise is I'll sit down in the mess with you and we'll figure it out. If you want to be on the show, go to johndeloney.com slash ask A-S-K or give me a buzz at 1-844-693-3291. It's actually kind of deceptive. You're not giving me a call, but you're calling in to like the show hot

And you're going to leave a message saying, hey, my name is so-and-so. Here's what I'm going through. Here's what's happening in my life. And we will reach out and give you a buzz, and we'll see if we can get you on the show. I just need to say again, thank you. I had breakfast this morning with the guy who runs the YouTube channel, and he just said, hey, man, I learned about this in school. I've never seen anything like it.

The growth of the show has just been staggering in a way that's hard to wrap our heads around. And so we're all just kind of high-fiving each other in a daze and then going about our life. And thankfully, I have an eight-year-old daughter who reminds me that I'm not that great on a regular basis. So we're all staying pretty humble, but I just want to say thank you. Thank you for subscribing to the show, for sending the episodes to your friends.

for your feedback, all of it. Thank you. Thank you. And the people who just think I'm the worst person ever, thank you for taking the time to write in. I appreciate that. I really do. I'm not going to respond to everything, obviously, but thanks for taking the time to care that much that you felt the need to send something in. Everybody's voice matters here. Kelly, it's gotten weird, man. I know. And people will, in the office, be like, oh, congratulations. And I'm like,

Thanks? Yeah. I don't know what to do with it. It's gotten B-I-G. The B-F-G. But I just said, like, just don't mess it up, Kelly. Just don't mess it up. Oh, you're going to. Oh, you're going to. I'm going to? Probably not. No, you know why? Because we've got Ben at the boards and Sarah the editor. And she makes me sound like a professional, so thank you. Makes my heart feel good. All right, let's go out to Manhattan. Not Manhattan, New York, but Manhattan, Kansas, where the party's at. What's up, Easton?

Dr. John Deloney. What's up? How are we doing, man? Well, I'd like to steal your answer and say I'm partying, but... But it's early in the morning in Manhattan, Kansas, so probably not. Yeah, it's one of those, you know, we had good weather, it changed its mind, got to go through it again, and here we are. There we go. What's up, brother? How can I help?

Well, John, I've written in, I think, twice now. I've had some difficult things to navigate come up between me and my girlfriend. And my question is just things kind of ended in a mess, man. And I need help picking up the pieces and moving on. Go back to the first thing you wrote in about, because that may give us some clues as to how you can help move on.

Yeah, so we had this all written out so I can ramble and you can cut me off at any point. You did a really good job at that. That's why I figured you'd be a help to me because you're good at just leaning in, explaining to somebody like they're five and move on. I don't think that's because that's about where my learning stopped. And so my vocabulary stopped. So, all right, go for it, man. Okay. Me and this girl, we met and we dated for about a year and a half. And things were serious to the point where

We were planning on getting married. I was actually supposed to talk to her dad relatively soon about when we were supposed to get engaged. So we were proceeding with that mindset. I mean, so were my folks, so were hers. And we just kind of hit some obstacles within the past like two months. So...

We're both Christians, and my dad's actually a worship pastor. And it's just always been the case that my dad and I listen to secular music throughout the week, throughout our daily lives. That's just been what's normal for me. That was normal for him. It's something that we share. Well, the girlfriend did not agree with some of the stuff that I was listening to. It's nothing bad. It's stuff that I would tell you I listen to now, stuff that I share with my parents. So I didn't have any real level of concern. She had a lot of concerns.

And it was to the point where like she was pulling up lyrics on her own and music videos. And I don't like the cover of this. And it was kind of, kind of put a wedge between us because she had a lot of concern. I didn't have a lot of concern. And she was just left questioning, you know, are we on the same page with basic convictions? Where was she? Where else was she picking you apart? Because music is an easy one, but that it would be very rare if there was just that issue, just that issue. Yeah.

Um, what else was she picking you apart on? Uh, another one that kind of put a wedge between us. Um, I'm a current student and I'm studying exercise science and watching a video on just, uh, it's a personal training class. So it's, you know, how do you take measurements of folks and you navigate that. And, uh, there was a video, it's just a girl in leggings and a training top and just showing, you know, the proper etiquette of taking measurements. And she, it made her very uncomfortable that I had to watch that. And she was pretty emotional. Um,

Yeah, it sounds like she is way too immature to be in a relationship right now. Yeah, that may be the case. Not that she has convictions. Convictions are fine. Or let me say this. I'll say it this way. She's too immature to be in a relationship with you. Or if you're going to be a personal trainer, that's an intimate role, right? Yeah.

Yeah. Like my job, my training as like going through my counseling program, sitting in practice and listening to very intimate conversations about the struggles people are going through. Are you listening to this show? I have some very intimate conversations with people. I have to be married to somebody who trusts me with everything, right? With their life. And you don't have that. And if she doesn't like the music you listen to,

my wife doesn't like my music. I don't really care for hers. And so I don't listen to it in the car unless it's just a great song. And then I have to, but like, I don't, I don't, I mean, we, we, we don't have that, but she trusts my character and my integrity and you don't have that. Right. Yeah. I think you're right on the money there. Um, it was just, uh, the way that we proceeded, cause this, I don't think this is what ended things and I'll get to that, but, uh,

I mean, kind of the conclusion that we both reached is, hey, you know, there's a level of concern on her end. Maybe I can learn something from that. So I actually put it down for quite a while and just spent some time reflecting on, you know, could this be something that's a negative influence just to be fair to her and her concerns? Okay. So that was, like I said, that was just, we weren't able to have a good conversation because I was trying to explain to her like, hey, I'll take some time away. I'm asking that you're open to that, but...

Here's what happened. So that's just background for the situation we're in. I won't get into specifics with you just because I know exactly what I did and what was said. That was too far just in terms of our own boundaries. But I had crossed some boundaries. We didn't as a couple cross any physically, but between the concerns she already had and some things that I said, I don't know what led to this, John, but she decided to...

essentially test my own convictions. So we're on a car ride home together and she just looks at me and says, we're already thinking about getting engaged and we're thinking about getting married fairly soon. I'm probably okay if we go ahead and sleep together now in light of that. And that's something that we'd talked about early on, waiting, saving ourselves for marriage. And so that's the conversation we had had and she decided to put it into the test

And I failed. Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Dude, run from this. Run from this. Okay? Just run from this. Let this be a learning lesson for you and your heart and your soul. And just dust your sandals off, man, and head to the next town. Okay? Because here's the deal. Oh, man. It sounds like you were in a relationship with a very manipulative person.

a person that was always going to find fault with you, was going to be testing you. I mean, how's that for a basis of relationship? Yeah, I mean, for me, it kind of caught me off guard because that's not the her that I knew. Well, and okay, so y'all had made an agreement and she comes in and says, hey, I think I want to change the agreement. And you go, oof.

Okay, I'll change the agreement. And then she's like, gotcha. No, dude. I don't want to be in relationship with that person. Like, I don't want to be in relationship with somebody that's playing gotcha with me. Because then you can never walk on two firm feet, right? You're always wondering, is this a test? It's never a true relationship conversation. It's a pop quiz.

And, dude, relationships are too hard as it is. Life is too messy as it is. You have to make too many real-time decisions as it is. I got to know our foundations are firm, and you guys – and we're in this together. And if you bring up one of the foundations, this is real talk. This is not, let's do testing time. I just – she's not ready to be in a relationship. Or maybe she is, but just I wouldn't recommend people be in a relationship with her at this time.

Yeah. And, uh, I mean, what's your advice for moving on? Cause it's, uh, you got hurt. You got hurt. Yeah. You got hurt. And I think you got to grieve it and you have to learn that in the future, if you have identified something in your life as a value for you, listening to music's a value. And I can tell by this phone call, you're not out listening to the crazy stuff. Right. Um, but you've made listening to music a value. And if somebody comes in and says, this value is not going to work for me,

I want you to have enough courage to stand on your own and say, okay, this is probably not going to be the relationship for us. See what I'm saying? I do. And so I think it's about you exhaling and saying, man, I had plans. We had plans. And I dodged a bullet on this one. Because by the way, this would have shown up with kids, would have shown up with the fence would have gotten tighter and tighter and tighter and tighter. You see what I'm saying? And let me, in defense of her,

Here's the way she can enter into relationships like this. I know she's not on the phone and I don't like talking about people that are on the phone, but here we are. The way you enter into this conversation is, hey, I have a real aversion to profanity or any sort of like sexuality in movies or music. I don't do it. I don't want to be around people that do. And then you have a choice to make, right? Because she's put her boundaries out on the table very clear.

But it's when a song comes on the radio and then she pulls up the lyrics about that song and then goes home and Googles the cover. And you see what I'm saying? It's this slow, it's just a slow net. It's slowly getting tighter and tighter around you. Instead of just coming out and saying, hey, here are my values. And it just feels like a game of gotcha. Does that sound fair? Yeah. So I think you're allowed to be sad. I think you're allowed to be heartbroken.

And my hope is you'll leave this and write down a few things. Here's what I learned. Here's what I learned about myself. And in a weird way, can I say something strange? By all means. In the same thing she was accusing you of, you compromised some of your value. And so go back to the drawing board and say, these are my values. I don't want to be with somebody who's going to try to trick me.

I don't want to be with somebody who's always secretly testing me and then is going to show me the results of my failed pop quiz. I don't want someone who distrusts my integrity so much that I never know what's okay and what's not. I think that's fair. How does that sound?

Yeah, I think that's kind of exactly the headspace that I was, I mean, just talking with friends and, you know, peers around me and just, you know, if we're really not going to get back together, then like there are other, you know, conversations and areas where, you know, there wasn't compromise. It's just, I give up something to be with her. And, and hey, Eason, that's the big deal.

Like iron sharpens iron. My friends call me out. My community members call me out. My former academic, um, like writer dies. Um, like they call me out. They hear things on the show and they're like, Hey, I wouldn't say it like this. Or why, why didn't you do this? Or why didn't you like, and I need that in my life. My wife has said, Hey, why do you listen to this record? It's not a good, it's, it's, that's not who you are. Right. But we have the conversation. It's not a, it's not, uh,

It's not a grenade. It's not a test. I never doubt her love for me, and I never doubt her fidelity, and I never doubt her character. And so it's an iron sharpens iron question. And if I can't answer it, then maybe she's right. But if I can't answer it, then she's like, huh, okay, cool. I don't care for that. And then I love that. See what I'm saying? So it's easy to say never challenge somebody. No. You don't want to be married to somebody that doesn't challenge you, but you don't want to be with somebody who –

doesn't ever compromise and doesn't tell you ahead of time the things that they won't compromise on. And then when you say, yeah, these are things I don't compromise either, that suddenly they're going to test you. Dude, the world will test you. You have to have somebody with you when those tests come. And it sounds like your buddies, I'm aligned with your friends. I don't see a path forward to y'all getting back together, dude, unless you sit down and say, here are things I just won't budge on. These are important to me. Number one, that you're not

running tests on me. I'm not a test subject. And two, you be very clear at the front end, at the top. Here are things that matter to you. And here are things that we're not going to, that you don't want to cash in and out on. Great. Awesome. Let's start there. Sorry you got your heart broken, brother. I hate that for you.

And I also don't want you to waste this opportunity that you can learn about yourself, learn about the values you have and make sure you write those down and that you learn to be upfront with other people that you're going to run into, date, meet in the future. And you can learn, I don't want to be like what happened to me. I'm going to be clear about my values. I'm also going to be clear about the conversations about my values. And maybe one day my values change.

but they're not going to be done. They're not going to change from a surprise conversation in a car. They're not going to be changed because of a gotcha or because I'm just so desperate to stay with you all. No, that's not how they're going to change. They're going to change in community. Iron sharpens iron. Thanks for the call, brother. We'll be right back.

All right, I want to talk about Halo. It's an app that I use just about every single day. So we're here at the end of summer trying to fit in that last minute vacation, trying to figure out where all of our money went and trying to plan for the start of school. And it's chaos. It's chaos. It's chaos in your life and it's chaos in mine.

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As things ramp up and get more and more chaotic, we have to choose to slow down and focus on the things that really, really matter.

And in addition to my conversations with my friends and my personal reading and journaling time, Hallow helps me stay on point with my spiritual practices. Hallow is an app that's easy to download right to your phone and it is packed with daily prayers, lecture series, meditations, music, stories, nighttime sleep programs, and more. Hallow is the number one prayer app in the world. And it's simple, it's super high quality, and you can personalize it based on wherever you happen to be in your spiritual life.

I use it on my drive to work, when I'm sitting in front of my red light, sometimes when I'm out walking my dogs, and I even listen to some of the music when I'm writing. Hallow has a journaling feature for your own personal reflection. I could go on and on. It's got everything. Here's what's really cool. This month, Hallow has special guests each week walking us through the lives of some incredible historical saints, learning more about their life, their faith, their story, and ultimately, their surrender to God's call on their life.

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Hey, we are back. Listen, my buddies at Mind Pump, if you've listened to the show for a minute, you know I'm always giving away their workout programs. They created the workout programs that I use in my house. And by the way, they don't pay me for this. I love those guys. They're men of character behind closed doors. They're guys I trust with my questions about my personal health and well-being and my family and their health and well-being. These are guys that I trust.

Um, they have the most downloaded fitness podcast on the planet and they just put out a three-day virtual course for fitness trainers and coaches that teach them how to build their business, how to sell better. And by the way, sell with integrity, not scumbag sales tactics, but like how to honor people in the sales process and how to be more effective with clients. It aired a while ago, 10,000 plus trainers showed up to this deal and now they're opening it to the wild.

for non-trainer common folks like me and like most of you. Here's why this is amazing. Adam, Sal, Justin, the whole gang, Doug, they are men of integrity. And if you have a sales job or you're an administration or you're a teacher, you are a nurse, being able to communicate with somebody and say, hey, I know you think this, but I want you to check this out. Those are important skills. How to learn how you're being talked to at a gym.

how to learn, how to learn about right. Fitness information, dietary information, nutrition, all of it. It's an amazing course. Go to mind pump trainer course.com. Check it out. Support my buddies. They're amazing. Mind pump trainer course.com. All right, let's go to Greenville, South Carolina and talk to Lisa. What's up, Lisa? Hey, Dr. John, how are you doing? What up? I'm doing good. How about you?

Good. Thanks so much for taking my call. And I just, oh, your podcast has been so, so good. And I've grown so much from listening to you. So I just wanted to thank you for all that you guys do. Thanks for being in our gang, man. I was going to say the original 17, but we're, we got way bigger than that. I didn't mean 20 now, right? Yeah. It's like 26. I think we got nine. So what's up? How can I help?

Okay. So I have a dilemma and I'm hoping that you can help me. Um, how do I break up with a former best friend of 10 plus years? Um, yeah, like I, I've, you know, I feel like breaking up with significant others or relationships. I, there's lots of advice for that, but I've never, I don't know how to break up with a friend. Um, like what's the right way to handle it? Like,

So I'm hoping you can help me dig into that. So is this somebody who is close to you or not close? I mean, close like proximity wise. They live down the street from you or they live far, far, far away? No. We actually, we moved to a different state a couple of years ago. And I think as we've moved and I've had that distance, I started to realize like,

okay, this wasn't what I thought it was. And we've started communicating less and less until... And it was kind of a natural break until recently when she started calling and texting and emailing and reaching out a lot more. And yeah, I just... I don't really know what to say. There's nothing... No big breakup I can... Or point that I can point to that this is the reason why...

Um, this isn't working, but I just realized I have so much anxiety associated with this relationship and with this friendship. And as I've been working on just my mental health and things I'm going through, I just realized like this, this isn't quite what I thought it was. So, um, yeah. And I guess just unpacking that. I guess the, man, my first impulse is, I mean, you have a natural geographic barrier. Yeah. It will, it will fade out.

That's what I thought too. Well, but here's the deal. All right. I'm going to tell you a conversation I had. I don't think I've talked about it on the show. And if I have, forgive me for repeating myself. I have a buddy who I've known since college. We went to the same college our freshman year. And he is a very, very successful country artist.

And at one point, I texted him. This is years ago. And his number had changed. I didn't have his new number. And it wasn't until we ran into each other a few years later that I was like, dude, you changed your number. He's like, oh, man, I changed my number. Here's my new number, whatever. So we were having dinner. He was here in Nashville. We were having dinner. This is several months ago. And I said, hey, every one of my former students, all my old friends, I've had my same number forever, forever and ever and ever.

And I, so I've, as the show has grown and as more books are sold, et cetera, my number is, has made its way around and I'm getting more and more texts and I love getting them, but I can't handle them all. Right. They just come all the time. Hey, what about this? Can you send me a book? Can I borrow this? Hey, I don't want to bother you, but Hey, my friend is going through this. Can you call my friend? Like it just gets more and more and more and more. And now that the show that the social media is getting into the millions, I just can't handle it all. And so I said, Hey, when did you decide to pull the trigger and change your number?

And he asked me and I talked to him about some specifics and he said, here's the deal. You can change your number. So you do that today. And then he smiled and said, or you can just be an adult and not feel like you have to respond to everything. I was like, ooh, that's not cool. And here's what ultimately the conversation led to. Just because somebody knocks on your door doesn't mean you have a moral or character obligation to answer it.

Just because somebody decided, hey, I want to talk to that person doesn't mean I have to stop everything in my life and talk to that person. There are three or four or five people in my world, not work included, but three or four or five people that no matter what, when they call, I stop, the world stops, I head out of whatever meeting I'm in, and I answer the phone. Other than that, I've learned to be comfortable with 100 unread texts on my phone.

And sometimes I'm sitting in an airport and I'll go through and check them all. I just simply don't have the capacity to be the person I want to be and answer them all. So for you, what makes you feel like you have to answer every time the phone rings or answer the text within one second every time the phone texts? I don't think I do. And I think I've been more and more comfortable of letting that go. I think there's an added layer because I thought that she was one of those like

close friends are like family to me. And I thought she was one of those until I realized like, you know, I would reach out or we would be in her area and we make a point to go see her, but then they would come, her and her husband would come to our area and then we wouldn't hear from them. So I feel like I thought she was. And so like, I had that, you know, like naturally. Did you ever ask that question? No, I don't think I've, this has been like the last week or two where I've really just been kind of unpacking like,

Things that I really didn't, like I'm just connecting the dots. And then they're also my kids' godparents too. So that adds another layer to it too. But I mean, when I lived in Texas, my kids had, what would, they weren't, I don't call them godparents, but they had the people they would go to if something happened to me and my wife. When we moved to Nashville, we made the decision, we don't want our kids sent away to,

And to someone they haven't seen before, or they haven't seen in five years because our kids are so little, so much shifts and changes, right? And so we changed that. And it wasn't a dramatic thing. It was just a, hey, we're going to, and it was like, okay, cool. And it was an, thank you for honoring us during that time. But I'm more interested in why your friend came to town. They didn't call you and you didn't go, are you serious? Why didn't you call me?

Like what kept you from having that conversation? Because it sounds like then you made up a story about why they didn't call you and now you've created an entire world where you're anxious about that story. Like, see what I'm saying? It just builds on itself. Yeah, and I think it's more just like

I've just realized, like, it's happened, I mean, over and over again. But one time, I think, you know, I can understand. Like, you guys are busy. You have a plan. It's fine. But I think over and over again, like, that continues to be the case. Yet when, like, she calls or, like, reaches out, it's kind of like the expectation that I respond immediately. I just, I'm seeing. Whose expectation is that?

hers, I think. I know, but why are you letting it speak into your soul? Yeah, that's a great question. That's a question about you, not her. Yeah, yeah, you're right. You're absolutely right. And here's where it came for me. It ultimately, my conversation with my musician buddy was, I have always thought of myself as the go-to guy.

If you call Deloney, he'll show up. Even to the detriment of his own sleep, his own health, his own family, I'll just show up. And then it got to be so big, I couldn't. And I didn't have a psychology for that until my buddy said, hey, dude, you got to be an adult and you got to take care of your family first. You got to take care of you first so that you can do whatever else you need to do.

And so my question, you're recovering people pleaser. Yes, I am. I am. So that's definitely, definitely where that comes from. Do you have friends in your new, in your new area?

Oh yeah. Yeah. We have a great community here. And I just like, I think that's part of why I started seeing the disparity more. Cause I saw what it was like to have, you know, people who show up, but you know, are also okay if it takes a couple of days for me to get back to them too. So what about just saying simply, um, why are you just not texting me back? Man, it's been a wild one. What's up?

Or I called you like three days ago. Yeah. I only check my messages once a week. What's up? Yeah. And, and, and I, I am, I don't know that it has to be this big dramatic. We need to talk. Gotcha. Right. If, if she was one of your ride or dies, like really close friend, here's what I've learned. We have, I've had really close friendships in seasons.

Mm-hmm like Men and women that I like did everything with like we worked together. We played together We went to school together class like we were close And it would be strange five years later for me just to pick up the phone and call they'd be like, oh, hey What's up, you know be kind of weird And so I loved those friends. I still do I care about them And if they reached out and said hey, can you help me with this? I'd be I'd do my best to help

But they're not my day-to-day ride-or-die friends. And I've had friends throughout those seasons that are woven through. The five or six or seven men and women that will be my go-tos, hopefully, until I'm not here on this planet anymore. And so it's me grieving like, yeah, that was my best, closest friend for those five years, those 10 years, those two years, those 17 years.

And then I moved. He had a kid. She had three kids. She quit doing that job and got promoted and started doing that job and got busier. And life just took us this way and took them that way. That's okay. It's all good. But I don't know that needs like a big event.

Yeah. Yeah. And I guess it's also me grieving, like, cause I thought like this was one of those lifelong friendships and I'm just realizing it's not. So yeah, as you're talking, I'm like, all right. It's also easy to, to doubt your own judge. Like if I missed it, am I missing it now with my current friend? And I would tell you that's not really fruitful talk. It's not, that's not, that's not, it's not a good train of thoughts to waste energy on.

Yeah. Like this was a friend. Y'all were there for each other. You're realizing now like, man, I need something different from friends in this season of my life. Cool. Yeah. That makes a lot of sense. I'm still a little bit, and I guess I can't control how she responds to that, but I don't think it's a good response. Yeah. And here's, here's a fun thing I want you to do. It's not a fun thing. It's kind of an agonizing thing. Every time she calls,

I want you to identify where it makes you uncomfortable in your body. Is it your chest? Is it in your gut? Is it in your, like you automatically exhale instead of, right? Instead of inhale. Yeah. Where is it in your body? And then the second thing is when she chastises you, where is that in your body? And all the practice of where is this in your body is the practice of you slowing down and metabolizing it and giving yourself just a gap.

Before you respond with, oh, I'm so sorry. No, you're not. You shouldn't be sorry. You're a grown woman. You can respond whenever you want. Right? Yeah. And it gives you that one pause so that you can begin to change your language and change your actions over time. So where is this? Like, it's in my chest. It's real tense. Oh, yeah. Hey, I'm slow responding to texts these days because I just don't care about my phone that much. What's up? Hmm.

And that's what we're going to get there. And eventually maybe she'll say, Hey, I just don't feel like we're close as we used to be. And you could say, we're not, we're not like I moved far away. Um, I don't make it over to your area. When you come here, we don't even see each other. I think it's just, it's just one of those things. I love you. Um, and maybe I'll need to have that conversation someday, but I don't know that it needs to be that pronounced. Okay. Here's my rule. If there is a, a, if there is a regular practice of getting together, um,

And something happens. I'll use something egregious. Let's say every Monday night you had the same group of couples over to your house. And one of the women who came to your house kissed your husband. Right? Now we're going to have a talk. You're not welcome in my home anymore because of X, Y, and Z. Mm-hmm.

If slowly you, I have a kid and you have a kid and you are like a little league parent and you just start going to a lot of games, like, hey, I can't make it on Monday. Ah, it's cool. Maybe eventually you say, man, I miss you. It's like, I know I got all these games, but it's just going to naturally fade out that way. See what I'm saying? That makes a lot of sense. Yeah. Yeah. And I guess I was carrying around a lot of guilt about the

natural fade. I want you to have guilt when you violate your boundaries. I am now feel guilty when I respond to, to like out of the blue texts and emails and calls at the expense of my kids. That's not feel guilty. Now I used to feel guilty by not responding right away. I just, I like, or I would leave my phone on 24, seven, three 65 because I wanted to be that guy.

Now I go to bed, I flip it over. And in the morning, I've got one buddy, Lane, Dr. Norton, he texts late at night. I blow him up in the morning when I respond back. So I, and he's somebody that I love and I will respond to as quickly as I can when I get him. But also I'm recording all day and my phone's off. So I just made peace with him.

I get to choose who I respond to and how quickly I respond to and with what degree and the times I feel guilty or when I violate my own new values around phone access, etc. But I think we kind of get obsessed with we have to make these big announcements. We are no longer this. We are no longer that.

I don't think we do. If you change godparents, if you change the person, the people who will take care of your kids if you pass away, you need to communicate that. That's an important thing to communicate because, God forbid, something do happen to y'all. You don't want two people showing up to the court with a note from you saying, no, they said I was. I'm holding the original will. You're like, well, they changed the will. You don't want that. You don't want somebody tying your kids up in court or whatever kind of mess. And so if you do change that, you need to have that conversation. But that's as simple as I want my kids to

go be with somebody who they're growing up with. And now we live in this community versus that community. That's pretty, that's pretty straightforward, pretty straightforward. Um, but I think the work here to be done is with you on my friend, Lisa and, uh,

how Lisa begins to take control of her schedule, who she talks to, who she communicates with, and how. And what few people are on stop the presses, like I'm going to take this call no matter what, and what the rest of the people that I love and I care about, but I've got work to do, I've got family, I've got more pressing issues, and I'll circle back when I can. That's your work to do. That's your work. Thanks for the call, Lisa. You're awesome. We'll be right back. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp.

So my wife and I were meeting the other day about the back-to-school madness that is about to be on us. We've got my travel schedule, her work schedule, our daughter's new school and clothes and forms to fill out and all these online portals and my son's sports schedule and he's got to have shoes every two weeks because his feet won't stop growing and how are we going to pay for all this and on and on and on.

And when we step back and look at our schedule, it's so packed and we haven't even put in the things like exercise, date nights, counseling appointments, church and holiday trips and big home projects. And these are the things that make life worth living. And I listened to y'all. This is your life too. And here's what I've learned. When it comes to taking care of me, my family and my work, I have to begin with the things that matter most and the things that keep me well and whole so I can wade into the chaos and be sturdy and present and strong.

you too. So as you're planning your upcoming end of summer and fall plans, make sure you don't skip date nights, don't skip regular exercise, and don't skip your regular therapy appointments. Yes, therapy can be hard work, but can also help make the rest of your life possible.

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With a good therapist, you can learn things like positive coping skills, how to set boundaries, how to deal with all the chaos going on in your life, and how to be the best version of yourself. In this upcoming season, make sure you put on your oxygen mask first. Never skip therapy day. Call my friends at BetterHelp. Visit betterhelp.com slash deloney today to get 10% off your first month. That's betterhelp, H-E-L-P dot com slash deloney.

All right, let's go out to Wilmington, Delaware and talk to Julie. What's up, Julie? Hi, Dr. John. What's up? How are you? Good. How are you? I'm good. Thanks for taking my call. You got it. What's happening?

Um, so I have a situation with my husband and I, um, we've been married 15 years and about two and a half years ago, he quit drinking. He was a heavy, heavy drinker. Um, but ever since then, it's like, we have nothing in common. You know, we don't do anything together. He doesn't

come on like family vacations and things like that with us anymore with the kids. And I'm kind of at a point where like we're there together, but I'm lonely and I'm frustrated and I'm having a hard time seeing a future like this together with him. So I'm not really sure how to move forward with our marriage and relationship. What has he said to you when you tell him that? Hey, I'm lonely. I miss you.

Well, we recently had our 15th anniversary in February. It's on Valentine's Day, actually. Gross. Gross. I know. He picked it. I didn't. But we were like, okay, let's take a trip. Let's go do something. And we got to the point where we couldn't agree on something that both of us would enjoy. So we ended up not doing anything.

And he's a homebody. He likes to stay home. He watches a ton of TV. I like to go out to eat. I like to go to hotels and things like that.

So we're really having a hard time relating to each other and finding like a commonality anymore. So when he was drinking, you know, we would go to the bars or, you know, let's go try this place or let's go to a winery and, you know, just kind of test things out. Like it was fun, you know, but now he doesn't want anything to do with that stuff, which is totally understandable. He can't be around the alcohol anymore. Yeah.

Um, and you know, I wouldn't pressure him into that or anything, but I don't know. It's like, we don't have a common like anymore. Like he has his own things he's involved in and I have my things and we're just not together. You know, we're,

We're in that relationship where it's, you know, like I've heard you mention it and my girlfriends have mentioned it. It's like the roommate phase, you know? Right. Well, and so there's, there's a couple of things in my head. One is when somebody's struggling with alcohol, my question is always, um, not why are you drinking? And my question is, man, what is going on in your life or what has happened up until now that this is the best way your body's figured out how to deal with it. And often people will get sober, um,

And they look around and they go, it's this. And that's a hard place to go because when you look around and say it's this and it's a bar, you can never go back to that bar again. Cool. If it's your job, you can quit your job. If it's your kids, if it's your spouse, now you got a problem. And the temptation is to go home and not numb out with alcohol. And then freaking Netflix showed up, right? Yeah.

And so I can numb out and I cannot exist and I don't have to have one sip of anything, but I'm still not dealing with what's at home. Here's the other side of this. I don't think you have fully recognized or metabolized the fact that everything in your marriage is different now. You are married to a different guy. And if you don't go back to square one and start dating again,

It will be what you're describing. Y'all are roommates. There's no life. There's no desire. There's no anticipation anymore. And y'all have to make a choice together. All right. We ended up here and we accidentally cut down the last tree in the forest. There's no more trees here. So now we got to go till the soil and start planting again. And that's hard work. And you got to decide we're going to do that.

What does that look like in real life? Like real, real life? That looks like, hey, will you commit to two dates a week? You pick one and I'll pick one. Because we're not going to agree on one. And we're both just going to sit here, end up watching TV. I'll pick one and you pick one. Would you agree to that for six weeks? Yeah. So I did, I read your book on your past, change your future. And I did talk to him about, sorry. No, it's okay. I mean, it really hit me that

I had an expectation of what our life would look like without alcohol, without him being drunk all the time. And it's nothing like that. You know, I figured...

you know, we'd be like the stereotypical, like happy family in the movie or whatever, you know, doing things together with the kids, making great memories and this and that. And that's far from the truth, you know? So I talked to him about that and how, like, I'm grieving that because that's what I thought it would look like. And what's he grieving? He, to be honest, he had a

a pretty traumatic childhood. I blame his parents a lot. Um, he's got a lot of stuff going on. And, and when we talked about that, um, the way I was feeling with it, he just says, well, I just push that stuff down. I, I make myself not think about it. And I have tried to tell him like, that's not helping you move forward. Like he's, I feel like he's stuck, you know? And

doesn't know how to move forward. And I have done a lot of self work to try to, you know, recognize things, try to, okay, how do I get past this and that? And I feel like I'm miles ahead of him at this point. And I'm kind of like dragging him along. You are. And here's the problem. Here's the problem for someone who struggled with alcohol. When you take away the alcohol filter and I have to deal with the world, especially one where I was abused as a kid,

Mm-hmm. You are just bathing in shame. And the worst thing is to have your ride or die feeling superior to you for all the work they've done. Mm-hmm. Because all he's going to feel is more shame. First, they did this to me as a kid, and now I can't even. I'm just going to sit here and flip channels.

Yeah. See what I'm saying? And so you're right. I think you're right. I think him doing some hard work, but I think saying that it's kind of like, um, man, if he was 200 pounds overweight and you're a marathoner, he just lost 200 pounds. Let's celebrate that. Not be like, man, if you'll just put the work in, you can run a marathon. See what I'm saying?

Yeah. And so it's you. Yeah. You've done a ton of work and now you can see the world with the clarity that you didn't have before. That's amazing. Let that be an avenue to, to compassion, not to judgment. And it may be that you're going to default to this, like the path to get to this world you wanted. I don't think that's still out of the question. I think it's just going to be slower to get there. And I also don't think it's fair to hold him accountable to pictures you made up. Right. Right. Um,

And also, I think y'all can still have fun together. What's the thing that you like about him? He is funny. He's silly with the kids. And I know the kids have even mentioned, you know, they miss him.

which is sad, but when daddy was drunk, he was very funny. He was silly. He would wrestle with them and play with them. And a lot of that doesn't happen anymore. You know, he's regular dad now, I guess. Right. And maybe it's you interjecting some of that playfulness back slowly, but surely. Hmm. Can I add one other thing? Anything really concerning me? Yeah. Um,

So since he quit drinking, he had said to me, he's like, I feel awake. You know, like there were a lot of things that like he just wasn't paying attention to because he didn't have energy or focus or anything like that. So he's actually involved in a lot of a few. I'm sorry, not a lot. A few of these things.

groups that are very politically focused, you know, like some of these conspiracy type things. So he's, he's like gone in this direction where I'm like, I, that's not me. That's not who I am. I don't,

I don't want my kids living in fear that, you know, the government's going to shut down and we're going to have to leave our house and go to the mountains and, you know, have to defend ourselves and this and that. You know, it's like a lot of that type of thing. Julie, all that's real and the world is flat. How do you not know this? I'm just kidding.

Well, and he does. He talks to me like, I'm sure you've never heard this before. No, trust me. I was that guy. I know. I know. I know. That's an attempt to grab control in a world that's gone sideways. Oh, yeah. Absolutely. I told you I've been there. I've been there. The challenge is the only healing that happens there is through connection. And it's hard because you become radioactive. You become very hard to be connected to.

And when people back away from you, it just further confirms. It sounds your alarms even louder. And so you go back to those same groups that will hear you and connect with you. And they're the ones giving you, it's all coming down. We're going to be trading cigarettes and coffee and all that stuff. Right? And so it's hard to lean into that. And it sounds bananas. But the antidote to that is not fighting. You don't fight the world is flat with data. You don't fight...

I saw Bigfoot with data. You just don't because you're already not, you'll have alternative views of reality as is. You fight, hey, it's all coming down with, hey, I love you. Let's go do something silly. Will you go get coffee with me? And let's put it on the calendar once a week. And here's something my wife did that was a gift. She would tell me, you get five minutes to talk about whatever nutritional conspiracy theory I had at the time. She goes, you get five minutes, go.

And I would just be like, okay, you know what they're trying to do? And I would just drink it all out. And then she would have done like some, like, hey, what do you think about this? Or what would it look like if we lived like this or lived here? What do you think about this job? And so I'm going to send you all of the questions for humans couples additions. All of them as my gift to you, okay? And here's what I would love for you to do. Like we all plan just to once, like twice a week, y'all just go somewhere in very inexpensive. Okay.

in the morning, in the evening, and just ask him. Just tell him, hey, I miss you. Yeah. And would you just go with me and have a cup of coffee here or do whatever there? I'll do one of yours if you do one of mine. And let's just go be weird and see if in a playful, non-pressurized way. Because my guess is y'all wait until there's a lot of pressure before you have a big conversation. And some of the greatest gifts y'all can give each other right now in this post. So in this post, um...

alcohol world in a sober world where the anxiety the underlying anxiety is still there he hasn't healed from that yet and he's looking for something to band-aid over it like the alcohol used to and what he's found connection he just found it with people who don't always see reality as it is

I feel like they need to set a boundary, especially revolving around the kids. Yeah. You know, like he's gotten like bug out bags for the kids. Like I'm going to help you pack some stuff in case we need to leave our house real quick. How old are your kids? They're 14 and 12. And I mean, they have their own opinions. They watch a ton of YouTube and all that mess too. And that's a challenge. I just don't want them living in... I know, but that's a challenge. Yeah.

I don't want them living in fear that, oh my gosh, like any day we're going to have to leave our house. Right. You know, what if mom and daddy are arguing all the time about, you know, different views of how the world is and stuff like that. Like it's hard, I think, for me, and I know they see it and they hear it. It's okay that they hear that you're arguing. They just have to see the repair too. Yeah.

Like back in the 80s, the wisdom was never fight in front of your kids. Never argue in front of your kids. Do that in the back room. Right. Because it'll freak out the kids. It'll scare them. And what ended up happening – because on its face, that sounds like wisdom, right? Don't get fired up at each other. You're going to freak the kids out. What ended up happening was –

Kids were robbed of the opportunity to see two people who loved each other, who passionately disagreed about something, disagree, come to some sort of arrangement, and then stay together. So that we have a generation of folks who are now at marrying age who get into their first big blowout fight or get in their first big disagreement about values, and they think everything's over.

So fighting in front of the kids, being just disagreeing about the kids, that's not a bad thing, but they have to see the repair part. They have to see the y'all laughing together. Y'all holding hands, y'all going out on a date together after that. That's the important part. If they don't see that, then yeah, the house gets electric and it is not okay to teach a 12 year old that you can die at any moment. That's the adult's job. What I can do, I have a 13 year old about to be 14 year old.

I am teaching him how the world works in very real time, but I'm not telling him, hey, dude, at any moment, right? That's not helpful. His nervous system cannot handle that weight. And by the way, as the son of a homicide detective who has done a bunch of crisis work behind closed doors with SWAT teams, do I have a plan? I do.

Do my kids and I have a, here's our plan in a restaurant. If I ever say the words, 911, it's time to go. You're not allowed to ask me questions. You will get up and we will leave. And every once in a while, I practice it with my daughter and my son. Hey, this is 911. We got to go. And they literally will just move their chair up and stand up. They know.

And so they don't know, hey, if a guy comes in here looking like, because now they're staying in the room, now they're paranoid. What they do know is my father's in control. And if he says it's time to go, it's time to go. See what I'm saying? See the difference there? Yeah. And that's my job as a parent because they can't carry that weight. And you as mom, your job is to protect those kids, even if it ends up being from dad. And so I think letting dad know, husband, he cannot, you can't do that to my kids. They can't carry that weight.

They do need to know if there's an emergency dad's in control. Dad's already planned for it. That's good. Fine. And then y'all two go have your weekly date and talk about your conspiracy theories together. Or so you get 10 minutes of whatever you bring me one, you get one. And then we're going to go through 10 of these couples cards. Like what's the latest one. And let's, let's, let's begin to dig into that with connection. Do you see what I'm saying?

And by the way, I don't let my 14-year-old, I don't let my 8-year-old have unfettered access to YouTube. I think that's madness and insanity. Their brains simply cannot handle that. There's a lot on there. I can't implore with you enough to cut that nonsense off in your home. It's too much. They can't. Adults can't stay regulated in front of those screens. How are those poor kids going to have a shot?

If you think about what a alcohol-free life with the anxiety your husband still has and what those messages are doing to him, think about what it's doing to those kids. And maybe that's a place to start. Husband, I want to cut this one off with the kids. We're going to really be vigilant about screen time. They can play video games for an hour a week or they can watch Netflix for an hour a week or whatever, but I want them to start going outside.

And by the way, husband, if you're so concerned about what happens if it goes down when you have a go bag, then your kids need to know how to wrestle or do jujitsu. Take them to a class.

They need to know how to run a mile. So start working out with them. They know how to do pull-ups. They need to know how to chop wood, right? If you want to really go down that road, put the screens away and get them outside and start cutting wood in your driveway, right? If they really are concerned about skills, but most people aren't. Most people just want to go down these rabbit holes and the rabbit holes and the rabbit holes and the algorithms will feed you, right? And I know that's a lot. All of this comes back to

Owning reality, choosing the reality that your marriage, you are married to a different man and that's okay. But we have to treat it like he's a different guy and you're a different woman and we're going to start dating again and we're going to take this thing slow just like y'all did when you got engaged. I mean, when you first met each other. And that means you have to be intentional. We're going to show up. We're going to practice safety like we did in the old days. We're going to practice desire like we did in the old days. We're going to argue gently and kindly like we did in the old days.

And we're going to slowly build a new relationship. And hopefully it's still there. And maybe he'll have the courage to say, hey, I'm out. Oh, that'll be awful. Call me back if that happens. Hopefully it doesn't. Stay on the line. I'm going to hook you up with all those cards. And I'll give you an opportunity to practice new conversations. So you don't just get in that same loop over and over and over again. Got a long road ahead of you. But you're married to a different man now. And let's lean in on connection. Start there. He's lucky to have you, Julie. We'll be right back.

What's up friends? Dr. John Deloney here. Tickets are selling like madhouse for the money in marriage getaway happening over Valentine's day weekend in 2025. I want you to join us here in Nashville for this amazing event.

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All right. So this is from Angie, and she sends this in. I have a question for this segment of the show. Recently, I left work at midday and went to the ER with chest pains. They ran all the tests and all checked out fine, but they wanted to keep me overnight for observation. I was keeping my husband informed throughout the day via text since he was working, letting him know my status. When I was released the next day without... Whoa, whoa, whoa. He didn't leave work and go to the ER? Let's finish. Okay. Okay.

When I was released the next day with nothing found, my husband picked me up to take me to my car, but let me know how much of an inconvenience it was and that when all was said and done, I should have just called an Uber to get my car. He said I was selfish to put him and our six-year-old in danger by driving through busy downtown traffic. Am I just a princess asking for too much or does he need to step up and be there for me? Sometimes I like to give you a nice easy one.

I don't think I need to dignify this one with an answer. Yes, lady, you should have got an Uber. My gosh, you know what he had to do? It's the NCAA tournament for crying out loud. How are we going to know how Caitlin Clark is doing with number one Iowa? Yeah, no. Yeah, that's not great. It's pretty awful, actually. Yeah, I don't have a lot of words for that. A lot of words that won't cause significant editorial time for Sarah and Ben with all the bleeping that would have to happen.

So I remember during like the COVID shutdown when you couldn't get in the hospitals, my husband had to call me and he said, I'm having abdomen pains. I'm going to go into the ER. And I couldn't go. And he ended up having to have an emergency appendectomy that night and I couldn't go. I couldn't go to the hospital because I couldn't get in.

And I had to sit there that night with my kids and my son was like, this feels weird. And I said, I know how awful it felt because my husband was in the emergency room. Then they did an emergency appendectomy. And the next day they literally just dumped him out and I picked him up at the front door. And it was so horrible not being there. Yeah, I can't wrap my head around getting a call.

Like, hey, I'm going to the ER. The conversation's over at that point. I'm just literally walking out the door, right? Yeah, I don't have a psychology for that. You go to the ER. And is it inconvenient? Let's just like have a little bit of compassion. Is it inconvenient? For sure. 100%. Is that a part of being in a relationship with somebody? The purpose of being in a relationship, being married to somebody, is not your convenience.

It's service. I get to dedicate my life to somebody into an entire family tree. I honestly can't even understand if she would have called and said, hey, I'm going to the ER. I know you're at work, and I need you to pick up our daughter. Of course. So I'll let you know if this becomes – I'll let you know. Or I am at the ER. This is super annoying. They won't let me go home. I'm fine. They're being overly cautious. Right. I don't need you guys –

Continue with the nightly routine. All of those things. And still, that's when you should be walking in with a bag of Arby's and some flowers because I'm spending the night. That's what you do, right? Yeah, but if you understand when you have kids at home and sometimes those aren't options. There's two words that come to mind. Fear.

Figure it out. And that's three words, actually. Yeah. You figure it out. Not our strong point. Yeah, math is not my thing. But regardless, to pick her up the next day and to make her feel guilty for that. Yeah, it's just gross. The whole thing's gross. The whole thing's gross. I sense divorce in the future. Good one, Obi-Wan. I sense divorce in the future. Yeah. Yeah. He's totally the problem. 100%. She's not a princess. She's not the problem. This is going to sound terrible.

No, it's not. It's not going to sound terrible at all. When you have a significant other, if they are sick, it's an opportunity for you to demonstrate service and love, not an opportunity for you to go, oh, dude, I've got a great story about this that I won't tell us now. Let's just say I was trying to see all the 80s metal bands. Twisted Sister was coming to town doing a quick reunion show, and I missed it because my wife had mono back when we were dating, and it was the greatest miss of my life.

Because when I dropped her off at her grandmother's house, she told her family to marry that guy. Go be with the person you love. My goodness. Speaking of, love you guys. Stay in school. Don't do drugs. Bye.