My Ex-Wife Continues to Make Our Lives Miserable
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Coming up on the Dr. John Deloney Show. I'm wondering how I could help my current wife deal with her anger towards my ex. How about you and I just go to the bar and just not talk about this? This is going to sound crazy, but anger is a good thing. It points you to the way things should be and they are not.

Yo, yo, yo, what's up? This is John with the Dr. John Deloney Show, talking about your mental and emotional health and your relationships and just trying to do life in a world gone mad. I'm so glad that you're with us. We're here to walk alongside you and help you figure out what's the next right move. And so many of us find ourselves like with nobody to call and nobody to sit down and be honest with us. Who's also got some expertise, also got a lot of experience sitting with people and

And isn't just going to give you something dumb, stupid, TikTok-y answer, but it's going to sit with you and say, hey, let's figure this thing out. If you want to be on the show, give me a buzz at 1-844-693-3291. It's 1-844-693-3291 or go to johndeloney.com slash ask, A-S-K. Let's roll out to Seattle, Washington and not listen to Allison Chains, but talk to Scott. Hey, Scott, what's up, man? Hi, Dr. John. How are you today? I'm good, brother. What's up?

Oh, I have a question for you. I'm wondering how I could help my current wife deal with her anger towards my ex. I don't know, man. How about you and I just go to the bar and just not talk about this? Okay, what happened? Tell me about it. Yes.

Well, I mean, in my mind, the anger is completely justified. What happened? Back when we were dating, we've been married for a year and a half now. Back when we were dating, I think officially dating for like a couple months. We'd known each other for about three or four months at this point. I have four children. My older two are out of the home. My younger two are still in the home.

And so we went to pick them up for an activity that we were going to do with them. And this is kind of the first real one-on-one activity that my sons had had with my then-girlfriend at the time. And so we go to pick them up. And when we do that, my ex comes out and we're sitting there waiting. We call Cade and we're sitting there waiting. And my son, we're sitting there waiting for them to come out. And my ex comes out and...

asked my girlfriend at the time to roll her window down. And so, and then she begins to just rant and tell her how horrible of a person I am and how she should avoid me and, you know, all these things. And she's like, she's kind of like being, being, you know, kind and just listening for a bit and like, ah, you know, just kind of nodding and,

And after a while, she's like, well, we got to go. We got to go. So we, you know, we're the one to go up and I call my son and say, you guys need to get out here. We're going right now. You know, and they, they come out and get in the car and we head out and we go to our, where we're going to go. And we're doing a little walk up to the mountains and we go to the activity. We come back and later that night we're at my house.

And my sons have a Halloween party planned on some of their friends. So where I lived, the bottom level was a garage and the door in. The second level was the living area and the top level was the bedrooms. We were upstairs watching a movie and the kids were in the second level having their Halloween party with their friends. And then my ex starts sending me all these texts and kind of threatening texts and everything. And she...

And I, I just, I ignore them. I don't even pay attention to them. He's trying to call me. I don't, I don't listen, you know, answer the phone, whatever. And, and so then all of a sudden she starts to, I'm going to come over there, you know, and I'm, and at this point I'm like, you know, maybe, maybe you should go to my, my girlfriend. I think this was six months ago, a year ago. No, this is, this is in 2021. This is back. Bro, why are you still hanging onto this? Like what, what has happened recently?

Oh, well, I'm just kind of putting the base. Okay. So yeah, so she, she did some dumb things. She saw the fact that you're moving on, her kids are going to be around a different woman and she lost it. So fast forward three years to now. So three years to now. So we've had between now and then we've had protection orders filed against her, her and I, and then, um, she's still trying to drive. She's still trying to threaten you and get all up in your business and everything.

Not as much, no. She's kind of backed off. But ever since we got the protection orders, that quieted down some. I actually renewed, we had another incident about a year and a half later that made me renew the order. And then this year, the order lapsed. They're a year order. So in February, the order lapsed. And I didn't tell my wife. I just let it go because I just, you know, we hadn't had any issues for quite a while.

And, and so, and then we go to file our taxes and, um, the, if you come to find out that my, my ex claimed my, we had an agreement that she took the younger son. I took the older son on our taxes. We took the agreement. We had agreement. And then was it a legal agreement or was it a handshake?

It was more of a handshake. I thought it was more of a, I thought it was on the decree, but it wasn't. It was more of a disagreement between us. And so she, we've been doing this ever since we divorced happened. And so she took my younger son and that just kind of, that just threw her off because all through the last, we've been married for a year and a half now. And through that whole time, she's been trying to take me to court, get me, you know, trying to get more money out of me.

And it's just been just one battle after another with her. And then that kind of was kind of the straw. And now my daughter, who I have my two older daughters, my second daughter is getting married this year. And she has a relationship still with her mom. And that's kind of hindering the relationship of my ex with my daughter now. And we're having to plan for this wedding. Here's the thing, dude. Here's the thing. Here's the thing. Let me interrupt you. Okay.

Y'all just keep a seat for this woman at your kitchen table and you let her live there. And you expect every interaction, everything that comes up, you expect, oh, this is going to be the time that she acts like an adult, that she acts like a stable, rational, sturdy adult. And there's been no evidence throughout your marriage to her, throughout your post-marriage to her, throughout your new marriage to somebody else that that's the case.

And so you keep putting your hand back in the bag and you get bit and then you're stunned that you get bit. So like, this is going to sound crazy, but anger is a good thing. It points you to the way things should be and they are not right. Yeah. But now you know how things are. And so getting angry at this point is a choice. Maybe the actual anger itself is not a choice, but putting yourself in these positions over and over and expecting something different is

Right. Is a choice. And I would just tell both of you, stop. Y'all knew that when you, when she got married, when your daughter got married, it was going to be a mess. And so expecting anything else is choosing misery, right? There's somebody, there's people who go clean up after high school prom parties and I'll never forget leaving one of those. And we didn't do a good job of keeping things clean.

And there was a couple of people walking in that were so aghast because we were knuckleheaded 18-year-olds. And I'll never forget two older women, I mean, probably in their 70s. And they were laughing. And they said, every once in a while, you just got to cut loose, don't you? And that's how they walked in to clean up. Everybody had the same job to do. One person chose, or a group of people chose misery. We're going to be pissed off this whole time. I can't believe these stupid kids. And the others were laughing. Woo, those 18-year-olds must have had a good time. I remember when I used to have a good time.

So I tell you that to tell you, you knew this was going to be chaotic. Yeah. You know that. And so minimize chaos, minimize the interaction, never let things lapse. If you don't have a legal thing, expect the unethical, unhinged, unkind person to be unhinged and unethical and unkind. Just be mad at yourself that you forgot to or that you let it lapse and you learned your lesson and then we're going to move on.

Yeah. I'm just not giving her a seat at my table anymore. And your new wife, and I say this with all due respect, but this happens all the time. She chose to marry somebody with an ex-wife and that comes with stuff. Even in the best of situations, I've seen some extraordinary ex-wives and new wives get along because it's for these kids and we're adults. Good grief, we're adults.

Right. I've seen it. And it's still a bit awkward because you had a honeymoon with my husband, too. Right. That's always going to be weird. It just is. Right. Yes. And that's what she chose. So if she chooses misery, then that's something you all two have to deal with. Yeah. Now, she probably didn't choose to be married to somebody who's going to lie and cheat and steal and I mean, cheat on taxes and violate handshake agreement. No, she probably didn't sign up for that. But that's what she's got.

And I hope I'm not making it sound too simple, but at the end of the day, you can put on your calendar. High school graduation, it's going to suck. And I wish it didn't, but it's going to because she's going to be there. Wedding, it's going to be the worst, but she's going to be there. Right? It just is. And so it's going to be the worst. We're going to plan it. We're going to get through it. And then we're going to go on their lives. Yeah. And I'm just not giving her a seat at my table.

Yeah, I mean, for me, I've kind of learned to let it go, and it doesn't really bother me as much anymore. I don't believe that, because when you were retelling that story, I could hear it on you, man. Why'd y'all get divorced? Well, she was unfaithful, and I wanted to work through it still, and the pasture was greener, and so she wanted to try something different. Okay, so she broke your heart.

And she blew up your picture of what your life was going to look like. And she blew up your kids' lives. And now, five years later, she still blames you for it, right? She does, yes. Yes. I'd be upset too. And also, you've started a new family with a new wife, right? I have. Any ounce of energy you spend thinking about the old life is an ounce of energy you're stealing from your current new life. And I just wouldn't give it to it. Yeah, you're right. I think you're still carrying that betrayal around.

Maybe not. I guess. Yeah. It's, you know, it's for me, it was, it was not, it wasn't easy to let go. And it's still, I don't think you really ever can fully, it's hard to really let go of what could have been right. But yeah, but you gave up the right to wallow in that when you looked at another woman and you said, I do. Yeah, I agree. She has to be the priority now, not what could have been. Cause what could have been. I tried to make that, I tried to go that route as you know, try to,

And, you know, it's just, you know, it's hard to kind of, I mean, like with the kids, sometimes she, you know, looks at the kids and she sees, you know, some things that they kind of, you know, say things to her. And she just, so she's really careful about saying things to them about, you know, and we both are, you know, we have to try to keep our distance and our boundaries. And it's just,

That's the hard part for me is that she's, and she kind of looks at, especially my daughter who's getting married and, and she sees a lot of my ex-wife in that situation because she's, she's close to her mom still. Well, and she should see a lot of her mom because she's half of that other woman. Yeah. And dude, that's what your wife signed up for. Yeah. And that's not fair to put on that, on that, on your kid. It's not fair to put on your ex-wife, of course. And that's her mom. Yeah.

You know what I'm saying? And it doesn't matter how unstable she was and how she blew up the family. Your daughter knows half of me is her. So if she's evil, half of me is evil too. And kids can't go there. If they do, there's a lot of dire consequences as they try to duct tape over that hole, right? So let's – I'm asking everybody to be mature here. But your new wife can ask things like, well, what does your mom think about that?

Is your mom excited? And because here's what we don't want to do with these kids. We don't want them to feel like they have to pick a side or every time they're kind to somebody that they're betraying the other person. Yeah. I try not to do that at all. I try not to involve them at all in anything that we, that we're, that my wife and my ex and I and my ex-wife are going through. I try not to put them, put that on them at all. So there's a lot of things they don't even know about. Of course. And it will come out one day.

And if you and your new wife focus on peace and on steady, that will resonate in your kid's nervous system. Yeah. Whenever we go to dad's house, we just all exhale. When we go to mom's house, it's a tense place. And I always tell parents, when y'all get a divorce, you've gone from a year-by-year game to a 15-year game. Now your goal is, I want 25-year-olds that look back and see how much they were loved through a bunch of chaos.

Because a 14-year-old can't feel that. They just know their world exploded. Yeah. And I would recommend this. Sit down with your new wife and say the words, I am tired of my ex-wife having a seat at our kitchen table. She's out of this house forever. And there's a reality to this. There will be a few more weddings. There will be some graduations. There will be the random letter from a lawyer. And ask your new wife,

How much of this do you want to participate in going forward? Because I want my whole life to be about you, and I don't want you to have to deal with this. And she might say, I want to know about everything, every letter, every whatever. Then you get to say, I need you to stop choosing rage, and I'm willing to shoulder my past so that we can all move forward. And if you get a letter, just send it to your lawyer. Don't lose a second of sleep over it because rattlesnakes bite.

And so if you're holding a sack with a rattlesnake in it and it starts rattling, don't put your hand in there. If you get a letter that says you're being sued for increased child support, okay. And call your lawyer and send it to him. And that's going to be an annoying $2,500 check or $5,000 check, a beat down check. Yeah. But that's the, that's the world you're in right now. Yeah. You see what I'm saying? I'll do that. I just heard you exhale. Like just, that's what I'm looking for, man.

Yeah. But there's gotta be something about, uh, here's, um, here's a conversation I would love for you to have with your new wife as well. My guess is y'all been married a year and a half. Is that right? Yep. And your divorce was final. How many months ago? How many years ago? Uh, it was about two years when we got married. So about three and a half years ago. Okay. I think your new wife is doing everything she can to plug in with you. And she still knows that part of you still plugged into that old mess.

And she's going to get madder and madder and madder because she's grasping at a ghost. And I think there's something to be said for, honey, I've been trying to be in both worlds. I've been trying to fix what happened and deal with the mess of the past and be all with you. And so I'm sorry. And I'm going all in on you. But that means we got to get her out of this house. She doesn't get a vote anymore. And if she wants to blow up my daughter's wedding, then maybe we don't go to the wedding. But I'm not going to do that to my daughter.

Or if she's going to, she's so immature, she's going to blow up X, Y, and Z. We'll do a small family gathering here or we'll sit down with daughter and say, hey, daughter, you know, this is going to come. How would you like us? How can we best love you through this? But we're just going to stop fighting reality. I would recommend you write a letter that God help you don't ever send it, but it's not an anger letter. It's a letter of grief, a letter of, hey, X, I'm setting you down. I'm not carrying you anymore.

i don't know what i did i don't know why you you know what happened in all those dynamics and you can be pretty explicit about it but i want you to get that story out of your body so you can move on with your life because you haven't yet you haven't grieved for that yet you've just been pissed off and only then can you fully fully be vulnerable with your new wife and by the way that means she could hurt you too y'all can be like running and gunning and seven years from now she could take off that's the risk we all take when we choose to love but until you're ready to be that vulnerable

your wife's going to always be trying to plug into an outlet that's got one of those little child protective covers over it and she's never going to be able to fully plug in and the idea of getting hurt again is probably more than your body can handle right now and yet that's what we signed up for when we got remarried i'm proud of you at the end of the day i'm going to choose she didn't get a seat at my table anymore i'm gonna do whatever i can to make that reality and i'm gonna let my new wife speak into what that looks like i'm not just gonna cut her out

But also we are going to choose not to have rage in the house because it doesn't solve anything. It doesn't solve anything. We're going to solve for peace. Hang on the line. I'm going to send you Own Your Past, Change Your Future and Building a Non-Anxious Life, both of my number one bestselling books. And I want you and your new wife to read them together. It's going to be my gift to y'all. Read them together and it's going to give you a roadmap out of this mess. Thanks for the call, brother. We'll be right back. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp.

So my wife and I were meeting the other day about the back-to-school madness that is about to be on us. We've got my travel schedule, her work schedule, our daughter's new school and clothes and forms to fill out and all these online portals and my son's sports schedule and he's got to have shoes every two weeks because his feet won't stop growing and how are we going to pay for all this and on and on and on.

And when we step back and look at our schedule, it's so packed and we haven't even put in the things like exercise, date nights, counseling appointments, church and holiday trips and big home projects. And these are the things that make life worth living. And I listened to y'all. This is your life too. And here's what I've learned. When it comes to taking care of me, my family and my work, I have to begin with the things that matter most and the things that keep me well and whole so I can wade into the chaos and be sturdy and present and strong.

you too. So as you're planning your upcoming end of summer and fall plans, make sure you don't skip date nights, don't skip regular exercise, and don't skip your regular therapy appointments. Yes, therapy can be hard work, but can also help make the rest of your life possible.

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All right, let's go out to Boston and go to a Harvard bar and talk to Meg. Hey, Meg, what's up? Hey, thank you so much for taking my call, Dr. John. Of course. Thanks for calling. How can I help? So my question for you is how do I move forward from the effects that being a juror had on me? Oh, man. What case did you sit in on? A murder trial. Yikes. Tell me about it. Yeah, so a few months ago, I was a juror for a murder trial, and it's just been staying with me more than I thought it would.

So a little bit of background about me. I'm also, up until a year ago, I was an ICU nurse. So I've been around a lot of death, a lot of trauma. But being a juror was still more difficult than I thought it would be. Was it a kid? Yeah. Did you have to look at all the pictures? Yes, we had to look at all the pictures. You had to read all the text messages and all the notes and emails and stuff?

Yeah, all of that. We had to see pictures of inside the houses and where they found the body, all of it. Hey Meg, nobody's supposed to see that. I'm sorry. Yeah. You got to glimpse in the depths of hell and people aren't supposed to see that. Yeah, not expecting that to be as much as it was. Yeah. If you were an ICU nurse, you've been at capacity for a long time, right? Yeah.

I think that I did pretty good, but it's a lot of trauma. You see death in everybody's worst day of their life. And what's the name of Besser Van Der Kolk's book? What's the name of it? Is that the Trauma Stewardship? Nope. That's a phenomenal, phenomenal read. I forgot her name off the top of my head. That's a phenomenal read, but no. The name of Van Der Kolk's book is The Body Keeps the Score.

And what made you a great ICU nurse is you could navigate even when your body was falling apart underneath you. And now that you've stopped, it still registers, man. Yeah, that sounds exactly right. Yeah. There's a price to still be paid. That's what I'm telling you. And I hate to tell you that, but you know that. Yikes, man. All right, so tell me how this is affecting you. Are you seeing her everywhere? No, I just put it.

Well, part of that is that they never found the body. So there's still missing person posters all over the city. So whenever I drive past that, it just hits me. So was somebody convicted even without a body? Yeah. There was still a lot of forensic evidence. Okay. And the defendant would never tell where the body actually was? No. So I remember when I testified in a trial where somebody got a significant sentence and I remembered, um,

I actually was a part of the sentencing hearing. And the next day, the judge actually used some of my words in the sentencing. And what I was, the trial I was a part of was so gross and I was so upset by it. And it was nothing like what you saw, but it was upsetting. And I remember when it came out and the conviction was, I mean, the conviction already happened, but the sentence was significant. It was very severe. And I remember being so sick.

And I was caught off guard because I thought I would feel good that justice was served. And I called my friend, Dr. Beth Robinson, and she works in kid cases. And I actually asked her that same thing. And she goes, oh, John, nobody wins. Even when justice is served, the way the TV shows set it up is like everybody cheers. And it's like, no, that little girl's still gone. There's just a whole other family system that's ruined now too.

Yeah, so that was part of it. I also, I did go to the set of things because I thought that that would help. Yeah, no, it makes it worse. Put the end cap on it and it didn't. It just didn't feel any different. Yeah. So I'm going to tell you the only, I'll tell you, there's no research literature that I know of on this particular thing. I'm sure it exists. I haven't looked at it. I'm going to tell you a practice that I use personally, okay? Okay. I would write that little girl a letter.

And tell her that you're so sorry. Because what you have tried to do to solve this issue is talk about the forensics and you've tried to talk about the posters and you've tried to talk about the trial and you've tried to talk about the killer. And this whole thing's about that little girl. Yeah. And that's what haunts your body. And so calling or writing a letter to her by name and letting her know that you got to see just a glimpse into what she had to deal with in her last minute. And then here's the important thing.

Most of the time when we lose somebody or we're around something like this that is that traumatic, our bodies get stuck in this moment that they're still in pain. And I need you to hear me say that that little girl is no longer hurting. She's free. Yeah. That is the only comfort that we could take. That's right. There's no comfort in this. There's not. It's just acknowledging a little girl who senselessly, needlessly went through absolute hell before she died. I mean, for no reason, right? Yeah.

Right. Yeah. But you hear me say this a lot on the show, but you got to let that little girl go have peace. And if you have people that you remember, those of us who work in, I wasn't an ICU nurse, of course, but there's just a few particular people that haunt me still from my days working crisis stuff. It's important to let them go. And so sitting down and writing that letters, there's a couple I need to do that too, that myself, you've reminded me. So I appreciate that.

But that I still hang on to. They still show up in dreams. They still show up when I'm mowing the yard. And I need to let them go. Yeah, I still have a couple of those people too. That's right. Do you remember their names? Of course. Yeah. Yeah, I think it's a worthy practice. And as you begin to let them go, others will show up wanting to be set free too. And for those of you listening, if you've never worked in trauma, if you've never been a nurse or a police officer or an attorney or sat on a jury like this, you think we're talking about woo-woo. But Meg, you know exactly what I'm talking about, don't you?

Yeah. Yeah. Yep. It's a lot. Yeah. I hate that you had to see that and hate that happened. That little girl. Me too. Yeah. But if it's for whatever it's worth, um, there's nothing wrong with you. You're not broken. Thank you. Your body just has been through a lot. And by the way, Meg, where did you get this heart for service? You dedicated your life to helping people. Oh, I, I have always found nursing interesting. And then I found ICU nursing and it's,

the best combination of helping people and science and just being able to be there for people. Thank you for making that a big part of your life. I've seen some of the most hollow, ghostly faces in ICU units while people are looking at loved ones or sitting with loved ones.

And it's those amazing nurses like you that show up and give, you know, doctors are running and running and running specialists are in and out, but it's those nurses that keep every, everything, everybody's souls bonded together during those times of chaos. So thank you for that. Thank you. And, uh, you have my friend, some letters to write and, um, thanks for showing up and everybody. Listen, if you've got somebody in your life that you've seen that you've struggled with a loved one, um,

a car wreck that you drove up on, any of those kind of things, consider sitting down and writing a letter. There are several people that I need to do that with, like I mentioned, and I don't remember their names. I don't remember exactly what they look like. A couple of them, I even remember what they were wearing. And I'm going to commit to that. It's time for me to let them go. I've been holding on to them in this pseudo way to keep me safe. And it's time for me to let them go. Thanks for the call, Meg. You're an absolute hero. Grateful for you. We'll be right back.

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All right, let's go out to St. Paul, Minnesota. I talked to Cole. Hey, Cole, what's up, brother? Hey, John, how you doing? Partying, dude. Rocking on to the break of dawn. What are you doing? I'm sitting in my car right now. I'm just talking to you. Not doing that. Very cool. So what's up?

So I guess my question is, how do I reconnect or reconcile my relationship with my father that I haven't really spoken to in over a year? And we had kind of a on and off again relationship throughout my childhood. Now that I'm a father, I guess I'm kind of looking for whether he should be a part of my life and my child's life and how to go about that. Why'd y'all quit talking to each other a year ago? Um...

Honestly, I mean, the thing that made me just kind of stop responding was he had sent me a text that just said, hello to the son that never texts his father, never talks to his father. And that was after a long period of trying to connect with him after I moved out of state, try to go on vacations with him or see him when I came back into town. And it was...

Just never convenient, never the right time. Just never happened. And so I just, I felt like he wasn't really interested in a relationship. And then phone communication kind of cut down and eventually he sent me that text and I just stopped talking to him. But I've been kind of feeling guilty about it. Has he been guilt tripping you your whole life? Not really a guilt trip. He just would disappear kind of for...

you know, a month at a time and then kind of reappear. Where'd he go? Um, well, so him and my mom split up when I was about five or six and he lived close by. Um, he lived like 10 or 15 minutes away and he had full visitation with the, you know, through the divorce and everything. But he, uh,

I think he just had a problem with alcohol and depression and he, my mom would tell me when I was a teenager, he would kind of go around the dark side of the moon. Yeah. I don't buy that. He made a choice to not get well. Cause I have too many friends and family that have been to hell and back because they're not going to miss their kid's life. Right. Yeah. I know he, um, he always tried to be, I think my problem with him was he never really tried to be a parent. Once they split up, he, um,

He would try to be kind of a cool friend with a car and money. And so a lot of the memories I have with him from a child are actually good memories. It would be, we'd go to a baseball game or we'd go fishing or we'd go see a movie or something. But it was always after that, it's like, okay, we're going to send you back home and go back to your real life. And, you know, I'll see you in another week or two to do something fun together. So fast forward to now, why do you want to...

Why are you feeling guilty? I guess I'm feeling guilty because he's getting older. He was 50 when I was born, and I just turned 30, so he's going to be 81 this year, and he's not in the greatest health. And my stepmother has been kind of reaching out to me over Facebook and asking me why I don't talk to him anymore and what happened, and they just don't understand anything.

I guess, I don't know. I don't want to get a call in the middle of the night that says he's passed and I kind of miss my opportunity to reconnect with him. I guess I'm kind of torn, man, because that goes both ways. And I'm not 80 and my son's not 30, right? So I can't speak for your dad, but I know this. My son took a math final this morning and he's really been struggling and he hit a home run. He did great.

And every bit of me wants to get in my car and drive over to the school and just hug him because I'm so proud of him. And the fact that your dad has never gotten in his car, he just sends these Hail Mary, passive-aggressive, middle school romance text to you, blaming you for everything. And he hadn't gotten in his car and knocked on your door and said, I miss my son, which is his job as dad. It's not the kid's job to heal these relationships. It's the parent's job. I hate that for you.

So I'm torn because I can't put myself in his psychology. Now, my son over a period of 20 years said, I don't want you around in my life. I don't like you. I don't want you to be there. And again, if you sat down with him, he might tell you, I knew life was hell. I knew I was struggling with alcohol and depression. And so I wanted to make you, I wanted to see you smile. So I took you to games. I took you to this. I'd be willing to bet that would be his side of the story. And now that you're 30, you're saying, I just wanted my dad. And he's going to say, I just wanted to see my son smile because I broke his heart.

I get everybody's everything, right? There's all different 360 degrees to this thing. Yeah. I think a lot of it's come up too that my daughter is five now. So, sorry. No, you're all right. What do you hope to accomplish? If you hope to accomplish just not feeling guilty, don't do this. If there's a chance that you can make peace with your old man and bring peace to your future great grandkids because you put a stop to this sort of behavior in a family system and you

There's going to be some, I drove a long, long way to get a four generation picture before my granddad passed away with my dad and my son and me and my granddad. And it was worth it. Sure. I'll have a photo for the rest of my life. My granddad was an unfathomably good man, right? I needed that photo. So if that's what you need, cool. If you want your daughter to know her granddad and he's going to write her letters and whatever, cool. If he can do that.

But if you feel like you need to do this just in case you're going to get a phone call in the middle of the night, then you're going to be chasing ghosts. He's going to sniff that out 100 miles away. Yeah, I think maybe the biggest thing is I wish that I would have had more guidance from him on how to be a father. And you didn't. And you didn't. Yeah. He can't be that for you.

You can grieve that and have your heart broken by that, but he can't be that for you. And that doesn't lessen your responsibility to go find men who are five and 10 and 15 and 20 years ahead of you to seek their guidance and wisdom. Cause you need that. None of us can be good dads by ourselves. We need older, wiser men in our lives. Yeah. I think, um, I think that's the biggest thing I feel like I'm missing at this point is all of my friends. I'm the first one of my friends to be raising kids and, um,

I feel like everybody that I'm friends with is mostly around my same age. So there's kind of a lack of that older male. Do you have a couple of buddies that their dads are pretty awesome? I have one. Yeah. I think it'd be pretty awesome if you called his dad up and said, Hey, my dad left when I was a kid and I'm finding myself over my head. Can I call you every once in a while? That might be one of the most honorable phone calls. I think another man could, could, could, could get, you think that would feel like a,

burden to him because he already has three or four kids. It would be the greatest gift you could give him. If you called me and told me, well, here's just the honest to God truth. You know, I talk about all the time. I take my kid to breakfast every Tuesday. We went this morning. It's Tuesday as I'm recording this show. We went this morning. Got up early. I skipped my workout. We went. I'm catching a plane to go to Connecticut tonight, right? So, like, we got this breakfast in. I got that from Dave, my boss.

You know why? Because I like his son is amazing. And he's a funny guy. And he's just a hilarious guy to be around. And he's a great leader. And he's a person of integrity. And he's married well. And his kids are, I mean, and I thought, I want my son to grow up like that. And if this is what we need to do, this is what we need, right? So I'm taking these from everybody. And I tell you what, when I looked at Dave and said, here's the fruit, I'm going to start copying some things you did.

Yeah, that's one of the greatest honors another man can receive. You call that guy and say, "Hey, you raised an amazing son and I need some help. Can I call you every once in a while for some guidance?" Dude, what a gift. What an amazing gift. - Yeah, I think you're right. We actually, he's a guy that we go hunting with every year. He's kind of the pack leader for our little hunting party. So we have a little bit of a rapport already.

I think that might be a move. I think that would be awesome. And ask him, will you mind checking in on me every month just to see how I'm doing? And I want you to see where I'm headed with this because we're going to separate these things. I'm going to say this with all due respect and just get right down to the brass tacks. Is that cool? Yeah. Your dad cashed out his fatherly wisdom, his fatherly relationship with you. He cashed it out. He was sick. He was struggling. He chose not to take some different tracks, whatever. He cashed that out.

And you have to go get that. I wish you didn't, but you do. And you already have another man down the road from you that you have a picture of. That would be a guy I could call, which is amazing. And that will free you to go have a relationship, a different kind of relationship with your dad in his last few years of life. And do you see how it will release the pressure on that? Yeah, that would be a huge relief, actually. And I feel the pressure like I need to get

some kind of lost time or wisdom from him. There's not a secret. He's going to be like, all right, now that you're back, here you go. Right? Yeah. He didn't have that, but he could be a great guy who loves you, who did the best he could with the tools he had in the toolkit. And in retrospect, was it right? Was it good? No, it was a mess. But I think in our culture, we do one of two things with, with our parents. We either, uh,

hold them to retrospective standards and we create these mega boundaries and we cut people out of our lives we don't just honor them for who they are and that sometimes that means we have to grieve certain things and we don't go do the necessary work we got to do that doesn't mean you can parent by yourself just because your dad cashed out I mean you got to go find somebody so it's both and but I think man you make that call and get that settled up with that other guy

That's awesome. That is awesome. My dad was an amazing detective and police officer, SWAT guy. And then he became a really extraordinary minister. And now he's a professor. He has never been a YouTuber. He's never had to do media calls. He's never had to hop on a plane and fly to Connecticut for 12 hours and fly home. He's never done that. And so I have to have other people in my life to get that wisdom from. My dad never packed up and moved across the country.

So when I did that with my young kids, I had to call some other men in my life that I trust to get that wisdom. How do I do this? How do I do this the right way? And I don't ask things of my dad that's unfair for me to ask of him or that he can't provide. So I'm going to make peace with that. Will you make that call to that other father this week? Yeah, definitely. I think that'll give you a lot of peace, man. Do you think it's worth, as far as my own dad...

Just me being the one that initiates like, hey, I'm going to come into town. And if you're around, love to see you. Nope. Talk about what happened. I think you go one step further. I think you let your stepmom know, I'm not doing electronic communication anymore. I'm coming to town. And you call your dad and say, dad, I'm going to be at such and such restaurant at noon on this day. I'd like to buy you lunch. I have some things I want to say. And I think when you sit down,

I think you can look them in the eye and say, Dad, I've got no interest in rehashing what happened, what's in the past, any of that stuff. You're my dad. I love you. I want you to know your grandkids. I'm doing the best I can to raise them well and to be a person of honor by our last name. And I want you in their life. And I want you in my life. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? And here's the deal, Cole. He may say no. He may cash out again. No, it sucks. It would. It would. But you will sleep at night knowing that.

I did everything with honor and integrity. And I was respectful to my old man. And he might break down in tears at that table and say, I've been waiting for this my whole life. I'm sorry. And if he starts to bring up, well, you didn't. Dad, dad, dad, dad, dad, dad, dad. I'm 30. I'm a new dad. I'm trying to figure this out on the run. I'm sorry. I'm interested in moving forward. Yeah. And you can just cut the conversation off and tell him if you're not interested in moving forward, then that's fine. But I'm not interested in having old conversations. Yeah. And he might just, and you might ask him, can I give you a hug?

When's the last time you hugged your dad? Been three years, three or four years, maybe. Maybe start there. Dad, can we get weird for a minute? Can I just give my dad a hug? What? What? What? What? Right? Yeah. Yeah, I just want to give my dad a hug. Because you've got somebody walking alongside you now. And it can't be him. It's not going to be him. And that's okay. And we're going to grieve it. I think you've been grieving it for 30 years. And now I'm just going to be respectful and honorable.

By the way, for people listening, if there's abuse involved, there's physical abuse, sexual abuse, this doesn't apply. This is a different track. This is a dad that struggled with addiction, who left, who tried, who sounds like he was just doing his best and he just best wasn't good. And now he's old and is alone and misses his son and knows there's grandkids and doesn't have the tools to reach back across the aisle. Yet he's withering away because he can't reach across the aisle. And so...

If I'm not using another person for oxygen, if I've got other people that I can rely on, man, I'm going to reach back across and say, hey, man, you only got a few years left. I'd love to spend them getting to know each other moving forward. Is that the way it was drawn up? Nope. That's the way it's going to be. And I'm going to choose reality. And I'm going to go from there and make the best of that situation. I'm grateful for you, Brother Cole. Thanks for thinking that through with me and let me think out loud a little bit. Here's what's important. You're a good man. You're a good dad. And you're a great son. You're all those things. And you, my brother, get to choose what happens next.

We'll be right back.

I want you to join us here in Nashville for this amazing event. Married couples know that time that is quality spent, time together is so important, but it's impossible to prioritize. And that's why this getaway is so important. It's a long weekend away for the two of you to intentionally focus on each other and on the marriage you are building together.

By the time you go home, you'll walk away with new tools to not just talk about, but to actually utilize. You're going to learn how to communicate. You're going to strengthen your sex and intimacy, and you're going to deepen your connection with each other. Plus, you're going to take part in a bunch of Q&A sessions with me and Rachel Cruz, where we will give you real-life answers to your tough questions.

There are a few VIP tickets left up for grabs that include a meet and greet with me and Rachel Cruz. And we are so jazzed to meet you all in person. There's not many tickets left, so don't wait. Please don't wait. Please come. Go to ramseysolutions.com slash getaway to get your tickets. That's ramseysolutions.com slash getaway. All right, we're back. Kelly had something cool happen. What is it? All right, so this is from Mariah in Winnipeg.

Hold on real quick. Did you ever get your hair permed back in the day? No, it kind of came that way. Why would I get a perm? I don't know. I don't know how that works. Did you used to get like super perms back in the day with like Aquanet bangs? No. Have you seen how curly this is? I don't need a perm. What would it do? That's just the way the L-O-R-D just rocked it out? Yeah. Did you have the bangs?

Yeah. Yeah. Pretty awesome. Yeah. Oh, I mean, come on. An 80s, 90s girl in Texas? This got big. But no, no perm. That kind of was... God gave me one early on. That's where we are. Cool, dude. All right. That was kind of random, by the way. I was listening to Cinderella on the way to the office today. Which I totally approve of. I was, all things change! And I was singing real loud. And for some reason, when I just looked up,

Just now, I just thought, I wonder if you used to just like type perm that sucker. No, but it was just because it's so big. There's so many curls. It got really big. And in Texas, it took a life of its own, huh? Yes, it did. Yeah. It's pretty spectacular. I wonder if your oncologist was like... We have the reason. We found the reason you have breast cancer. You just snorted Aquanet. Aquanet, yeah. Well, actually, I did, sir. Yeah. Actually, I did. All right, go for it.

Anyway, just writing to express my gratitude for John and the team for this show. I've been listening since the beginning, and I've been on a journey toward my best self over the past five years. I'm currently 37 weeks pregnant with our third child. As I was swimming this morning, it occurred to me that there has been a huge shift in my attitude toward myself.

I am loving myself where I am and giving myself grace. It's okay not to accomplish X, Y, Z, or anything while exercising in this season of my life where I just need to move my body. Anyway, I attribute a lot of this new approach and attitude to loving myself to John talking about shifting how we speak about ourselves.

I am a person who is worthy of being taken care of. I eat well, I exercise, and I prioritize sleep because I am worthy of my best self so I can be the best mom and wife that I can be. Thank you. P.S. I really wish more people, women in particular, were taught these principles from a young age. Go you. That's awesome. Look at you. That is not going to sit well with the...

Perpetuation of misogyny. Right. From the previous show. Is that this show or the previous show? Well, no, we got it for a show that we recorded a couple weeks ago. Oh, okay. Gotcha. But, you know, it's good to balance between perpetuating misogyny and... And honoring, teaching women. Honoring women. Yeah, it's good to be balanced. It's just a potato, potato. Oh, that's awesome. Well, hey, for everybody listening, thank you for...

taking little bits of these shows and deciding like, I'm going to put that into practice. And what was her name, Kelly? Mariah from Winnipeg. Good job, Mariah from Winnipeg. It's amazing. And I hope your, your birth goes well. And I hope you have a beautiful little baby here any day now. Love you guys. Bye.