My Daughter Saw My Husband Kissing Another Woman
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Coming up on the Dr. John Deloney Show. They were basically making out on the golf cart, so I tried to kind of block my daughter's view and turned around and asked her to go back in the house. When they noticed I was out there, I said, you need to get in the house. And he basically said, no, I'm trying to have some fun. What up, what up? This is John with the Dr. John Deloney Show.

Talking about your marriage, your friendships, your dating relationships, whatever you got going on in your life, your kids, all of it. So glad that you're with us. You're talking about your emotional health, your mental health, whatever you got. Or maybe over the weekend, your boss or coworker sent you an electronic communication that started with per our email, per our previous convo, Kelly.

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And let's go to the phones and stay right here in Nashville, Tennessee, and talk to Ashley. What up, Ashley? Hey, how are you? Thank you for having me. Of course. Doing great. How about you? Oh, I'm pretty good, I think. Just life. That means not very good. What's going on? I guess it could always be worse, right? No. What's going on? Okay, so my question is...

And I'm going to try to say this without crying, but it's not going to work. Ashley, go for it. Go for it. Hey, I can hear you already trying to soft pedal what you're about to say. Just cannonball in.

Okay, so my eight-year-old daughter essentially witnessed my husband kissing another woman, and I don't know how to proceed as far as she is concerned, like how I talk to her about this. Are you having to explain about his funeral? Yeah, that too. What happened? How did this play out?

So this is a neighbor, actually. Sure. Lives down from us. Why not? Which makes it easier to drive past their house every day. Of course.

So we were having a pool day, had friends over. The neighbor came down, wanted us to come hang out there. And we basically said, you know, when our friends leave, we may come down. But she asked if she could take our little girl down there who's eight, you know, to play with the other kids. We said, that's fine. My husband ended up going down there earlier than me because my friends were still there. And...

When he got home, my daughter came in and said she was home, and I could just tell by the look on her face and just her whole demeanor that something was wrong. And I said, are you okay? And she said, yeah, I'm fine. And I'm like, well, you look like you're not. Did something happen? And she was like, no, I'm fine. And so I asked where Daddy was, and she said outside.

So I went to go outside. She said he's on the golf cart with said neighbor. And then she started to follow me out there, which in my gut, I just had that feeling where I'm like, just don't let her follow you out here. And then of course I was like, surely it's fine. So she walked outside. They were basically making out on the golf cart. So I tried to kind of block my daughter's view and turned around and asked her to go back in the house.

Um, went over there and when they noticed I was out there, basically I was like, what are you doing? You know, I'll leave some of the words out, but he, I said, you need to get in the house. And he basically said, no, um, I'm trying to have some fun. And I said, again, you need to get in the house right now. And I looked at her and said, you need to get out of my driveway.

Hold on, hold on. So you caught your husband in the front yard making out with a neighbor. Yeah, basically on the golf cart. And you yelled and screamed and his response was, chill out, I'm just trying to have some fun.

Yeah. And I actually was pretty good. I was proud of myself for not actually yelling and screaming because I was, you know, our daughter was there and I didn't know if she was trying to listen or what. So, but yeah. And first he told me no. He had been drinking a ton, which is no excuse, obviously, but that's a whole nother story. Um,

Yes, and then he finally came in, and I told him, you're sleeping in the guest bedroom tonight. Do not try to text my phone. And I think I basically told him he was never taking our daughter out of the house alone again if he was going to be drinking.

But, you know, I was too mad that night. And obviously he wouldn't have heard a word I said anyway. So a couple of days later when I decided I wanted to speak to him again, we talked a little bit about it. And I mean, just the mere fact that our eight year old witnessed this. So after we got inside, she said, I said, or she asked me if I was okay. I said, yes, I'm fine. You know, trying to hold it together or whatever. And I said, are you okay? You still look like, like,

Like, there's something you need to tell me. I said, is everything okay? She was like, well, I'm afraid to tell you because I think it might make you mad and I'm afraid I might get in trouble. I said, you're not going to get in trouble. I said, you can tell me if there's something you need to tell me. She said, she said, when I was...

When I got off the golf cart and was walking inside, I think I saw daddy kissing our neighbor. And I was like, that's awesome. And I was like, you know, I don't know. I don't know for sure what you saw. I said, but if I'm sorry that you saw that, that wasn't meant for your eyes. And, you know, kind of rested at that. Hey, Ashley, Ashley. Yeah. Two important things here. Okay. I'm going to say them in reverse order.

Thing number one is don't ever lie to your daughter. And what I mean by that is you keep telling her that you're fine, you're okay, and you're not fine and you're not okay. And your daughter knows that. And she's looking to you to say, no, I'm enraged. My heart is broken. Daddy hurt mommy. That's not a lie and that's okay. Saying dad is evil and swear and he's this and he's that, that's not helpful.

But telling a kid that just saw something, the truth, because anything other than that is it, the kid will, she's going to think she's crazy. Yeah. That's number one. Number two, I don't want to hear about your daughter anymore because this is not about her. You are putting all of this onto her. You don't know what to do next. Fair? Yeah. Yeah, it's fair. I mean. I can't even wrap my head around how crazy this is. Yeah.

I mean, obviously, I'm not real happy about it. Why are you so contained? You have the most, like, Nashvilleian, like, I'm going to make sure this dress doesn't get ruffled, and I'm going to be outside and make sure my azaleas are cut right. Like, I can't believe you didn't set that cart on fire when he looked at you. You know what I mean? At some point, rage is okay. Yeah. Yeah.

I just didn't want to... I didn't want to assault him and put him like you. Well, some things... I mean, that's probably for a different show. It took every cell in my body to not grab him by his hair, honestly. I mean, I don't know, but I was trying to keep it together for her. And I do want to tell her what happened, and I want her to know that that feeling she got was bright, you know, that it was right to feel...

off about that because you know I want her to be able to trust her instincts and I want her to know that he definitely made some bad choices so you have to tell her and that's okay but you got to circle back ASAP because she's gonna this is gonna lock in yeah you tell her mommy got scared and I froze and maybe she's got a time y'all can remember that she got scared and she froze but I would call back to that so she's got a reference point just tell her I got super scared and I froze

Yeah. And I should have told you that I was scared and heartbroken and very, very mad. Yeah. And she'll say, why did daddy do that? And you have to say, I don't know. But it was a very ugly, rude thing to do. And daddy should not have done that. Yeah. I mean, is he, are we, do we need to talk to her about this together? That was another thing. I told him. You, I mean, you haven't decided what you're going to do. Like, you just keep talking about this. Like, I'm really mad. Like, what are you?

What are you going to do? Are you going to kick him out of the house? I can't believe you let him sleep there. I just want to lock the door. Yeah. I mean, we've talked about it some, and I told him, obviously, I was going to need some time, and the conversation wasn't over because I haven't said everything I needed to say. It's not about that. This can't possibly be the first time this has happened. It's the first time I know of it happening. I can almost guarantee you it wasn't because of the brazenness with which he responded.

I mean, I don't know. He either has so insanely little respect for you or this is not a weird thing when he gets drunk. He's done some stupid stuff when he's been drunk. I don't know that he's ever done anything like that, honestly. So until you decide to grow a spine and confront this thing head on, having a unified family conversation with your eight-year-old is not going to do much.

Because y'all are going to sit down and come up with some sort of story for her, and her body will feel the bull crap woven throughout the tapestry y'all spin in front of her. She'll know mommy's not okay, and she'll know daddy gets scary when he drinks. Yeah. Right? Yeah, I mean— And I'm telling you to grow a spine. I'm not trying to pile up on you. I'm just trying to empower you. Yeah. Yeah.

You have to be in the driver's seat here. Yeah. I mean, I told him some things are definitely going to have to change. Okay, you tell me, what does that mean? Because I'm going to be honest with you. I don't believe you. Tell me what's going to change. Well, losing his self-control is a big part of it. Yeah, but when you say things are going to change about your drinking, what do you mean? I mean, he doesn't need to drink to that point anymore. And if he's unable to control it, then...

He's going to have to stop altogether. And I told him he needs to figure out why he gets to that point when he does drink, because I feel like something else is going on deeper, whether it's PTSD or, you know, work stuff or whatever. He needs to talk to somebody and figure out why he's what he's trying to numb. Ashley, why it's to that point. OK, so you told him those things. Did he look at you and go, you're right?

You're right. I'm going to go make an appointment on Monday. I'm going to go speak to a counselor here in Nashville, Tennessee. No, no, we didn't. Well, he told me he would. Of course he did. Of course he did. I bet he's drank since then in your home, hasn't he?

Um, yeah. Yes. He doesn't care what you say. Because there's no... There's no... There's no... And here my laughter is me really holding back anger. Okay? I'm not laughing at you. I am. I'm fuming inside at how somebody could disrespect his wife so much and his little daughter so much. I can't wrap my head around that level of disrespect. I get drinking too much and kissing somebody. Okay. We'll deal with that. But just the...

brazenness and then the not groveling on the back end. I can't believe I blew my family up in our own driveway like that. I'm so enraged by that. But you have no teeth to this, Ashley. And I can tell by the way you're talking to him, a lot of the things you are saying you don't say out loud, they are stories in your head, right? Yeah, sometimes. Exactly. And there's no teeth to them. He knows you're not going to leave. You're not going to do anything.

He just has to endure some silence for a few days and then things are back to the way they were. And if that's the world you want, then accept that world. But if you don't want that world, you have to come up with the or what statement. For me to feel safe and loved in my home, this is what must be true. And if it's not true, you can't be here. Yeah. You can't cheat on me in our driveway, in the driveway of my home, in front of our daughter. Can't do it. Not an expect to stay married to me.

Yeah, you're right. Right? Yeah. I mean, that's exactly right. And we've talked some about it, but I have, I mean, I do have a lot more to say. I'm just trying to figure out exactly what I need him to do so I can give him those, give him that map to get it together. I don't want to, I don't want to be a downer here, but I think the road for him getting it back together is a much longer road than you think it is.

because i've got a lot of people i got a lot of people in my life who struggle with substance abuse of some shape form or fashion and i don't know any of them with the disrespect in their soul like your husband is displayed to you and this isn't i'm and when i talk about disrespect i'm not just talking about what happened in the golf cart i'm talking about the lack of remorse on the back end the lack of i'm coming to you with my plan because i just blew my family up and i got to rebuild something

Like, that lack of love and respect is so maddening that there's, man, there's levels to this one, right? And you know that. You know that. Yeah. I mean, he's, I don't know, he's, of course, apologized and cried and this and that. But he hasn't once said, I'm going to stop. No, in fact, he probably did say that. He just then went and after the hard conversation, he went and made himself a drink.

I mean, I don't know. I'm not trying to imply that it's to that point, I guess. I mean, he had one drink when we had friends over a couple days later, but his behavior was definitely different and he didn't get to that point. So I mean, I'm hopeful that means. It doesn't. It doesn't, Ashley. You know, you know as well as I do. Here's the deal. Here's the deal.

Until you own that everything, there was a before and after in your marriage. There was the marriage as you knew it. Then there's Ash. He decided to blow up everything in your driveway with another woman on a golf cart in front of your daughter. He blew it up. And until you own that, and this isn't a matter of, well, he's just, we had friends over a few nights later. He just had one drink. So I'm hoping that this is it. It's not. It's so much deeper than that.

This is a man that has to learn to respect his wife from inside out. Have him call me. I'd love to talk to him. Not in a mean way, but just like in a, like, I love you, man. I want you to, your life to be whole. But the way you're laying the story out, man, I've sat with people countless times who have made a mistake, have done a thing, right? This is different. This feels very much a way of being, right?

I'm just a guy. I could care less what she has to say. Oh, my daughter was out there. Oh, no. And then I'm off to be grounded for a week and then everything will be fine. Everything in your marriage is, of your old marriage is over now. Now you have to decide, are you going to build something new? And if you are going to build something new, you get to decide what it looks like and how it feels, what you want it to be about.

Often people in your situation, everything's such a mess. It's such a whirlwind, a chaotic whirlwind. They got to go sit with a counselor and help pull it apart. It'll be a first if this is the first out of the blue experience you've had like this. But you mentioned, no, he drinks and he does things that he regrets after he drinks. So you probably have a catalog of things.

Maybe not with a neighbor in your own driveway, but you've got a catalog of things that have scared you or made you uncomfortable or made you embarrassed or made you ashamed. And pulling those apart with a counselor and laying them on the table. But you've got to sit down with somebody and say, okay, here's what I want. Here's what I need in this home for me and for my daughter. And I'm going to lay this out in front of him. And he gets to choose. Are you in or are you out? I hate this for you. But let's not dump all this on little girl. Let's take full ownership that mom just had her whole world blown up.

And mom's got to pick the pieces up. And mom's got to decide, okay, here's what this thing's going to look like. And let's be really hopeful dad joins us in the rebuilding process. Ugh, I hate this for you, Ashley. I hate it, hate it, hate it. Call anytime. If he wants to call, I'd be happy to talk to him. We'll be right back.

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All of it. Invest in yourself with Organifi. All right, let's go out to Tampa, Florida and talk to the powerful and beautiful Sue. Hey, Sue. Well, good morning, Dr. John. How are you? I'm remarkable. How are you? A little nervous, but okay. Good. I'm a little bit nervous too, so we can just be nervous together. Awesome. Excellent. What's up? How can I help?

Okay, I'm going to give you my question first and then a little backstory. Perfect. My question is, how do I navigate through the anxieties I have about being in the latter years of life? How old are you? The backstory is, I will be 70 in a couple months. All right. I know, that's a big one. I was married for 30 years and have been a widow for 12 years.

Two years ago, I made the difficult decision to move from the Midwest to Florida, away from my only child and her family. This is not the picture that I had in my mind for the last years of my life. I'm dealing with loneliness, even though I have a wonderful church family. I've got friends. But as you know, you can be very lonely in a group.

Um, so I'm, I'm trying to, and I also suffer with some depression, have all my life. So I'm, I'm trying to find ways to get through the anxieties. Uh, I find myself, I pace my apartment quite often, which is awful. Yes. And I clean. So that's where I'm at in my life. Awesome. Hey, thank you for calling. It really means the world to me. Well, thank you. It really does.

Man, I have so many questions for you. You sound like a cool person that I could sit and learn from for a while. What was your husband's name? His name was Bob. Bob. Was he cool? Let me tell you a little bit about him. All right. Bob was a 100% disabled vet from Vietnam era. Oh, you were a caretaker. So our 30-year marriage, I was his caregiver. Yeah, you were a caretaker. Okay.

I was, that's all I've known all my life. You know, we went through 30 years and even though intellectually I knew that he would pass before I did, I still grieve. Yeah. Even after 12 years, I still grieve him. He was a wonderful man. Yeah. And you know what he was in addition to being a wonderful man and your husband? What? He was your purpose.

Absolutely. He was your role. He was the thing you did. Absolutely. Why did you move from the Midwest out to Florida? Okay. Well, first of all, for the past seven years, well, nine years now, I started coming down to Florida as a snowbird because of health reasons. I suffer with two types of arthritis, osteoarthritis and rheumatoid arthritis.

And I also suffer from SAD. So being in the snow belt for months at a time was very painful to my body. Sure. And so after seven years of coming down for the winters, I just had to make that decision for my health. I needed to move. And so it's been much better down here for my health. And yet...

Yeah. And yet. There's the other side of that teeter-totter, right? There is. Tell me about your relationship with your daughter. We have a wonderful relationship. I'm always amazed. She's 40 years old now and has three boys and a wonderful husband. She is a wonderful woman, which is

Growing up in the, I call it chaos of our home, she turned out remarkably level-headed. Sue, she had a ringside seat to an amazing woman who dedicated her life to a veteran. Are you kidding me? Of course she is. She's kind of said the same thing to me because I've said to her, you know, I've watched her with her struggles with her children and especially one child that has mental health issues.

And I said to her one day, I said, where do you get this strength that I see you doing? And she just said, Mom, I get it from you. I watched you. Yeah. Me. You. Yes. Yeah. That was a shock to me. So anyway, yes, it's hard to be away from them. But I had to do what was best medically for me. Okay.

And as I said, I have a wonderful church family. Yeah, but hold on. You keep going back to those things, and I want to pull you apart from those things for a second, okay? Okay. It's real easy, especially if you struggle with that low-level dysthymia, that constant drag of the past. Right. It just hooks on you like an anchor. Yes, it does. And it just feels heavy, and the only way out is to get up and move.

And sometimes that turns into worry about the future, which is anxiety. Right. And you just end up in a spool, right? Yep. And you clean like crazy. I have a loop in my head. That's right. Yeah, you loop and you loop. And as busy as you are pacing your apartment and cleaning, your mind is 100 times faster until your body finally shuts you down with a case of depression and locks you in. Right. And as I said, I have suffered with depression all my life. Okay.

You know, I grew up in hell, so, you know, that's normal. Well, so here's, in a perfect world, you and I could hang out for like three hours together. And I would love to get to know you. I understand that. Here's the thing you get to reconcile, okay? Mm-hmm. Here is the either or. You get a path to the left or a path to the right. I'm not talking politically. Thank goodness. Right. Okay.

You get to do path A, which is, I'm going to, I'm, I have made peace with, I'm just kind of a depressive person. I got a good church family. I feel my joints feel good here and I'm healthy and I get bouts of the ups and the bouts of the downs. And that's just going to be my life for the next 20 years. Oh gosh. Okay. Yes. The other path is,

You said it in such perfect, perfect language. This isn't the picture I thought it was going to be at turning seven. And so you're right. Then we exhale. Yes. And then you get to decide what the next picture looks like. And I think that's where I'm stuck. You're stuck because you've locked yourself into a bunch of variables. I can't live here. I have to live here. This is good. So if I'm not plugging in, it must be something wrong with me.

The church is good. The weather is good. The roads are good. My living arrangements are good. So I must be the problem. That's depression. Yes. Why am I not at peace? Why am I not happy? Because you're craving two important things that you have cut out of your life. Deep, profound connection and a purpose.

You were put on this planet to serve, Sue, and you're the best at it. And I know you're good at it because you kept an Agent Orange sufferer around for 30 years. And your offspring, your daughter, has become an amazing caretaker and mom and professional and all those things because she got to see your example, right? Yes. You are a tree that bared great fruit. You're somebody who serves. Yes.

Yes. And so my challenge to you is, who are you going to serve in the last 20 years of your life? Who are you going to love? Who are you going to commit to? And what are you going to trade the loneliness for the connection? Okay. And here's what I'll challenge your quote-unquote good church family. I'm sure they're nice, but do you have a group of women that you get together with twice a week to get out of the house and go drink coffee with and just go...

run your mouth and gossip and be loud and silly? Um, well, the only women I'm around are the women from church. Um, now not, let's see, maybe once a week, let's put it that way. I mean, once a week I'll get together with, with, with some of the ladies. And part of that is my fault for not reaching out and just, you know, inviting them to coffee or whatever. Um,

Whenever you use the words my fault, you're judging yourself, and I want you just to quit. You've been judging yourself your whole life, Sue. I know. Your childhood wasn't your fault. Your husband, and by the way, being a caretaker is both lovely in retrospect, and it is hell day by day. Yes, it is. And you've been judging yourself for that too, how you could have done better. I wish I'd done this. I should have. Absolutely. Stop. You have 20 years left. Oh, gosh.

And I want to make them count. Well, but when you're keeping score with yourself, it's so hard. It's exhausting. Yes. Instead of thinking, what's the greatest next fun thing I can do that will bring me joy? And because you're you, you love serving people. And because you're you, you like being around your amazing daughter.

I do. And because you're you, you don't like your elbows and knees and shoulders hurting all the time. I don't. No, I don't. Right? So it's a weird mix of when's the last time now that your husband's passed and I don't want to get in a bunch of, I'm just going to get in trouble on the internets. Go ahead. Let me say it this way. There's a direct correlation to some, not all autoimmune challenges and childhood traumas.

and autoimmune challenges and present day traumas. Just that constant low level stress. I would love for you to go talk to somebody and say, I would love to go back to the Midwest. I don't want to get all medicated up. I struggle from arthritis and I don't do well in the cold. My husband's passed. I'm dealing with my childhood stuff, but I'm 70 and I want to ride or die. I don't want there to be any tread left on the tires. And I don't want it to be because I drove in a circle around my living room.

Right. So if you shoulders and knees and elbows didn't hurt anymore and I gave you a million dollars, what would you do? Like right now, if I like go. Oh, wow. What would you do? I would travel. Where? Oh, gosh. Well, the first place that comes to mind is I've always wanted to go to Alaska. Go to Alaska. And then, you know, or go to New Zealand or Australia. I mean, that type of thing. That's, you know. Can you afford that?

Um, no, not at this time. Not at this time. Do what? I said, I'm, I'm working the baby steps right now. So you're, you're still taking care of your, your financial situation. Right. And it's, it's, it's,

Compared to a lot of people, it's relatively. Now quit judging everything. I know, I know. I do that to myself. I know. I'm sorry. You're too amazing. You don't have to, you don't have to, you're 70. You don't have to compare anything. You're just, you get to just decide. Now. Yes. Going to the moon would be awesome. Okay. We can't afford the moon. So we're just going to, we're going to back it up.

And say, given the state that we're in, given our situation financially, we're going to do X, Y, Z. And you may find I can't go anywhere. I got to be right here. Cool. Then I'm bringing Australia here. What's going to be amazing about Australia? The sun. I want to go fishing. I want to go for a walk down. But that's what we're going to do. We're going to set it up. Yeah. Here's what this looks like in real life.

Okay. Being very honest with two of your friends. I want you to take them out. And if you can, pause, baby step two, take them out and you pay for the meal. Right. And say, I'm going to say some things out loud about what I want to do in the next 10 years. And I need y'all to hold me accountable and tell them to bring a pen and a paper and they're going to bring it too. And you have to include one or two or three service. I'm going to start reading stories every Friday to the local elementary school.

I'm going to start teaching the Sunday school class. I'm just going to hold babies in the nursery. Whatever that is. I do serve at church. I do that, but... But I'm talking about not just a sign-up sheet. I'm talking this is going to be my thing. Right. And when somebody says, well, I'd love to go read, and everyone will go, whoa, you're going to have to fight Sue for that because that's Sue's thing. Right? That's what I'm talking about. Okay. Somebody you can scratch and claw for because you've been scratching and clawing for people your whole life. I have. And you're...

Go ahead. I grew up with my youngest brother, who was two years younger than me, with Down syndrome. Okay. And so he was my baby. That's what I always said, you know. And you advocated and fought for him his whole life. Yeah. And you did the same for your husband. Yes. Well, let me ask you this. Are you done fighting? Because if you're done fighting, that's okay, too. You know, I don't know how to live my life not fighting. Okay. Maybe that's the practice. I think that's part of it, too. Maybe that's the practice.

You know. Maybe that's the practice. Or maybe, what if you started advocating for Sue like you've been advocating for everybody else for all these years? What do you need today? A walk. What do you need today? Some coffee with a friend? Coffee would be nice, yes. What do you need today? I need a meal. Yeah. Right? Like, I want you to start advocating the same way you kept lists and took care of your little brother, the same way you took lists and did all those things for your husband today.

I want you to treat and love Sue like that. But, but. But what? Say it. It's very hard to treat myself that way when my whole life I have felt like this awful person. I know. And you and I could unpack that, but here's the question before you. Are you an awful person? No. Sue, answer it declaratively, yes or no. Are you an awful person?

No. No, you're not. And so. Feels like it. And listen, your feelings job is not to tell you the truth. Your feelings job is to keep you alive. And they have. And so they have, but now they're killing you. Right. Exactly. And so you and I both know you're not an awful person. You're an amazing, amazing woman. Thank you. And so, and I'm not just saying that because I'm just blowing smoke. You took care of a guy for 30 years.

And if anyone's been around Agent Orange folks who've suffered from that, it's a nightmare. It is a nightmare. And the VA system is a nightmare. Correct. It's a nightmare. Dealing with a traumatic childhood is a nightmare. Being the caregiver when that wasn't your job of your brother with special needs is very, very hard.

Yes. Okay. So I can't hear you say I'm an awful person because it's not true. And so whenever that pops into your head or wherever you, whenever you start to say, I'm going to call so-and-so and go get a cup of coffee. Well, I just need to, I want whoever that voice is. I want you to shut her up because that's not you. Okay. That's your old mom or your old dad or some old complainer. That's not you. Yes.

Okay. You get to have a cup of coffee with your friends. You get to go for a walk every morning and every evening in that beautiful Tampa sun. I know. The beautiful beaches. Yes. You live there. Why wouldn't you go out there and go for a walk? I don't know. Okay. Then here's what we're going to do. We're going to practice. We're going to put on the calendar and we're going to keep our promises to ourselves. Okay. We're going to stop overthinking everything and just do. And just do.

Because you've been trying to think about this for 70 years and you haven't been able to catch it. One of the great lies of our current day and age is that you can correct overthinking by thinking about it. That is false. No. You got to go act. You got to go do. Yes, it takes action. That's right.

So here's what I'm going to do for you. I'm going to hook you up with a couple of things, okay? I'm going to give you Building a Non-Anxious Life. I'm going to send you my latest book for free. I'm also going to give you the videos for Financial Peace University. I said you're going through that. I'm going to give you that course for free and the EveryDollar app for a year for free, the premium one. So again, I'm going to give you that as my gift just to give you a little bit of fuel in the engine, okay? But here's what you owe me.

You're going to make a date with a couple of girlfriends twice a week. One is going to be hanging around having coffee and one's going to be going for walks. And you owe me at least one walk outside a day.

And you owe the listeners of this show one or two or three new things you're going to commit to for the next few months. Some sort of service, whether it's reading to kids. I don't know what you're into. Like taking care of nurses. I don't care what it is, but just something that you've got to wake up for and go be a part of. I think. And the last thing, I want you to write Bob a letter. I want you to write sweet Bob a letter and let that guy go.

You loved him with everything and I'm confident he loved you. And it's been 12 years and he's still hanging on you. And that's okay. You'll always love him. Let's write him a letter and tell him, Bob, I'm doing okay. I'm doing okay. Our daughter's amazing. And her grandkids, man, you're missing them. They're amazing. And even that knuckleheaded boy that she married has turned out to be all right. And here's the things I'm going to do in the last 10 or 20 years before I get to see you again. I'm going to save up some money. I'm going to go to Australia or Alaska. But in the meantime, I'm going to get out of debt.

I'm going to go see her a little bit more often when I can. I started playing checkers with these ladies out by the beach. I started drinking too much coffee again, and it gets me all anxious, but it makes me laugh. Whatever it is, I started reading weird books again. Like, I don't know what it is. You get to decide what comes next. The last thing is be curious, not judgmental. Stop judging my friend Sue. Start being curious. Have some laughter. I'm so grateful I got to talk to you, Sue. You call me anytime. We'll be right back. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp.

So my wife and I were meeting the other day about the back-to-school madness that is about to be on us. We've got my travel schedule, her work schedule, our daughter's new school and clothes and forms to fill out and all these online portals and my son's sports schedule and he's got to have shoes every two weeks because his feet won't stop growing and how are we going to pay for all this and on and on and on.

And when we step back and look at our schedule, it's so packed and we haven't even put in the things like exercise, date nights, counseling appointments, church and holiday trips and big home projects. And these are the things that make life worth living. And I listened to y'all. This is your life too. And here's what I've learned. When it comes to taking care of me, my family and my work, I have to begin with the things that matter most and the things that keep me well and whole so I can wade into the chaos and be sturdy and present and strong.

you too. So as you're planning your upcoming end of summer and fall plans, make sure you don't skip date nights, don't skip regular exercise, and don't skip your regular therapy appointments. Yes, therapy can be hard work, but it can also help make the rest of your life possible.

When it comes to therapy, I want you to consider calling the team at BetterHelp. BetterHelp is 100% online therapy staffed with licensed therapists. It's convenient, it's flexible, and it's suited to fit your schedule.

With a good therapist, you can learn things like positive coping skills, how to set boundaries, how to deal with all the chaos going on in your life, and how to be the best version of yourself. In this upcoming season, make sure you put on your oxygen mask first. Never skip therapy day. Call my friends at BetterHelp. Visit betterhelp.com slash deloney today to get 10% off your first month. That's betterhelp, H-E-L-P dot com slash deloney.

All right, we are back. Hey, a couple of quick things. Number one, don't forget to please hit the subscribe button. It makes all the difference in the world. Big time, big time, big time. Hit subscribe, like, thumbs up, five stars per our email. Whatever you need to do just to tell the world this show rules. Second thing is the October Money for Marriage completely sold out, but we open up a new one for Valentine's 2025. Of course, it's going to sell out fast.

But let's be honest. We just took care of Valentine's for all of you. Weekend in Nashville to work on your marriage.

Awesome. Okay, here's the details. Two and a half days hanging out with me and Rachel Cruz. We're going to talk about communication, emotional connection, sex, money, all of it. All the things that we're like, we don't know if we want to talk about this. We're doing it. All of it. And a bunch of this weekend is built on access. Getting to ask your questions to me or to Rachel. It will have a bunch of other special guests that roll in here because it's Nashville and you never know who's going to show up and be walking down these hallways.

And we're going to have a wild date night experience party that's a blast. The whole weekend is $699, which is, we price it so below every other marriage conference out there because we believe in what we're talking about. And I am interested in people going home and having their marriages changed. I'm convinced that the chaos in this world will be changed when marriages get strong in homes.

period. And so this whole thing is about you going back home, reconnected re in love, re able to dream with a bunch of new tools to go make those things happen. 699 bucks. Um, early bird pricing is still happening. I don't know if VIP has already sold out for that one too. If it hasn't, um, get that quick. Cause these are going to sell out real fast.

February 13th through 15th, 2025. Get your tickets at ramseysolutions.com slash getaway. It's ramseysolutions.com slash getaway. Money and Marriage, Valentine's Weekend 2025, me and Rachel Cruz, and a whole bunch of surprise guests. It will be a party. All right, let's roll out to Phoenix, Arizona and talk to Alex. What up, Alex? Hey, how's it going, Dr. John? Partying, dude. What are you up to?

Just here sitting in my car like every other caller. Seems like the safest places are cars these days. That's all we got left. So what's up, man? Yeah, so I'll just go on with my question. So my question is, how do I get my wife on board financially to achieve the goals that we both have in common? Hold on, that was the most eloquent way to say...

Either my wife is not on board or she spends too much or she won't, she's not getting a job to help out. Like you said that so eloquently, get, get in the gutter with me. Like what's the deal? What's happening? No. So, so what actually is happening? She has a job. She doesn't, I don't think she's an overspender per se. I think what it is,

is that when we do overspend as a family, because we usually make decisions ourselves, like go to restaurants and stuff, you know, it's not like, you know, she's buying tons of makeup. She doesn't really get anything for herself because she thinks I would get mad at her, actually, which I wouldn't. But that's kind of why I called. I feel she's a very high-anxiety person. So it's really hard to have financial conversations with her.

Um, because she'll either get defensive or she'll think it's her fault. So, um, and obviously I just kind of want to help her with that. And I want to make sure that we can both, you know, we want to buy a home, for example, in the next year or so we want to, you know, kind of move along with her family and things like that. So I'm just trying to figure out how I can get her on board and, and, and not make her feel, feel guilty for, um, you know, for just knowing about our finances. So how long have you been married?

We've been married for almost four and a half years now. Okay. It took me like 15 years to figure this out, so you'll be ahead of me by a decade. That was good. You can't make your wife feel any way. Okay. You can't make her not feel guilty if she chooses to engage in any hard conversation with guilt and shame. And most of us don't choose to enter into conversations with guilt and shame, but what we don't do is we don't choose to go get the healing that we need that would help.

Right. Nobody chooses to tear their ACL. People can choose to not go get surgery and do rehab so they can get back out on the field. Right. Gotcha. Are you a safe place for her, for her to have a conversation? Are you always, are you one of these dudes that's always got a spreadsheet, always has an idea, always has a, Oh, I would do it. Like, are you that guy? Or is she really come from a traumatic place and she doesn't know how to have a hard conversation?

Maybe a little bit of both. I definitely am... Not the spreadsheet kind of way, but I definitely have solutions all the time. And I think that kind of, you know... Shuts her down. Triggers her anxiety. Yeah. Yeah. I would say...

Traumatic wise, I know that when she was growing up, first of all, financially, she grew up in a third world country where her dad was always working. Her mom was at home. Alex, lead with that next time. Good job. I don't know how to talk to my wife about money. Oh, oh. Jeez. Okay, yes. Huge. Yeah, that's why she has her parents.

She barely had, like her family barely had enough money to get by. Yes. So that definitely has to play into it for sure. So anytime that we talk about it and financially right now, we are doing really good. We have a very, very good saving account. We're actually saving for a house right now, trying to get 20% down. So we're good financially, but we want her to stop working because we want to have a second child.

And I just want her to make sure that we're both in on the same page before we take that step and say, hey, there are certain things that we can do and can't. - Here's the problem. Same page for her is an emotional connectivity.

and mutual vulnerability. Same page for you is a spreadsheet of when we're going to pay off what and how much we're going to have saved by this date. Yep. And she can't connect. You are like a plug that has those child plugs in it. And she has been banging her end of the plug, trying to plug it into the wall for so long, she just quit. Gotcha. Right? And so if I'm you, here's how I would start this conversation. I would take her out and I would tell her,

For four and a half years, I've loved you, and I've loved you in the way that makes me feel safe, and I'm sorry. And you might say, John, I don't have anything to be sorry about. You're right. You didn't do anything on purpose, yet here we are, okay? Right. You didn't do anything malicious or try to hurt your wife. In fact, you've been trying to love her for four and a half years. Right. Fair?

That's there. Yes. What most of us do is we try to love the person next to us in the ways that we want to be loved. And when it doesn't work, we just try that harder instead of giving up our need for it. We need to be loved in this way and saying, I love you and I want to be a safe place and you're real smart. And so you tell me when you want my advice on something. Otherwise, I'm just going to listen to you because I love you and I know you're brilliant.

Gotcha. And often our wives come to us and it sounds like your wife's similar to mine. She's way smarter than me. So when she's telling me about challenges she's having, she's not looking for a solution. Yeah. I called my buddy who's a finance whiz in Texas the other day and I was like, hey, do this and this and this. I was asking for his help and he responded with, you need to do this, move this over here and do this. And I was like, cool.

If my wife called me with that exact same question, she would not be asking for my wisdom. She would just say, I want you to be with me. Here's what's going on in my life. Gotcha. And she would need me to say, that sucks and I'm sorry. Often, anxiety is relieved when people feel connected, anchored in. And right now, I think...

from what i'm hearing is your wife's coming from a place of scarcity so money is going to take the conversation is going to take time to heal i did not grow up in a third world country but i grew up in a home where money was very tense very anxious very tight all the time and so it was a great source of anxiety for me for ages and so i had to go back to the numbers and stop i had to start ignoring my body's response to money and just look at the numbers it just took me a long time to learn that okay the bigger picture though is

Does she feel like she's got a safe teammate that she can do life with and not perform for you? Because I feel like she's probably feeling like she's performing as a wife. And anytime it's like, oh, man, we didn't make the budget goal this month. She takes that. She feels that as though you just judged her performance as a wife that month. Is that fair?

That is fair. I'll tell you, John, that, yeah, this goes beyond money. And there's been times when she has said that to me. What's that? You know, where she said, you know, like, I just...

I don't remember exactly the words that she says, but it is along those lines where she's basically just, like, kind of reaching out for help type thing. Like, I want, you know, to connect with you. I want to, you know, be able to open up to you. And I think my issue is that when I...

When she says that, I ask her, well, can you give me a specific thing I can do? That's the most male husband answer you can give. And I know I'm overgeneralizing and stereotyping gender. I know. And I'm right. That is like, okay, give me four specific examples on how I can be more emotionally, like, right. That's exactly it. Yeah. So here's, here's a way I want you to reverse engineer it. Okay. Here's your homework assignment with her.

Can she teach you anything? Language, dance, storytelling. Can she teach you anything? Architecture. I don't know what she's into. Give me a couple of things. Oh, yeah. She's a great dancer. I mean, she's from Colombia, so she knows all the Latin dances. Can you dance? I was able to a couple years ago, but we've stopped. Okay. Here's what I would like you to do. I would like you to, I know you have a young one, right? A little one?

Yep, yep. Almost a year and a half now. Okay. Once a week, after dinner, you will take the little one and get the little one to bed. Whatever that means, whatever that takes. And after you get that kid in bed, you are taking dance classes. Okay. I want you to sign up and take a dance class. And I want y'all to have some sort of goal six months from now where you're going to do this in public somewhere. Okay. Okay?

I want her to take the lead on something where you are in submission, where she is the honcho. Here's part two. I want her to make a syllabus for you. What are her four favorite books of all time? What are her four favorite movies of all time? What are her four, um, her four favorite records, like music CDs. And I know I'm making myself sound like I'm a thousand years old. Um, like, like artists, um,

And I want you for the next six months to get a master's degree in your wife. Okay. And I want you to read the book. She tells you, even if they're dreadful and I want you to listen to the albums and I want you to sing along. You see what I'm saying? Yes. And I know you're thinking, what does this have to do with anxiety? What does it have to do with money? It has to do with you are giving her a foundation that she can stand on firm footing. And she's probably never stood on that in her life. Is that fair? That is fair. For you and me,

Firm footing is spreadsheets and assurance and the five points to and for other people assurances. Are you still going to be there? This is all of me. Do you love me? And then she's going to have to practice. Hey, honey, we have to talk about budget and I need you for 30 minutes to not walk away from the table. Can you be here with me? Yes. On. Game on. See what I'm saying? You can invite her into a...

I need you here. I'm not going to run. You're not going to run. You can put your hands up and tell me I need a break or whatever, but I need to go over the money with you because I don't want to do this by myself. You're a part of this thing and she's going to practice it. But do you see the shift here? This has nothing to do with, okay, give me four examples, right? Right. And I'm going to tell you, you're going to feel rudderless for a while because you're going to begin to ask yourself this one terrifying question. If she doesn't need me for my answers and she doesn't need me for my solutions, what role do I play in her life?

And that's going to be scary. That unwinds men off often because most men don't believe that their wives love them just because they love them. Right. And that's hard. Right. And so you've got your practicing to do because your anxiety response is to go do stuff and solve stuff. That's going to be hard. Are you in? I can feel you getting tense on the phone. Is that, am I, am I, tell me if I'm, if I'm way off here.

No, not at all. It's just getting hot in this car here in AZ, but I'm good. Excellent. All right. Hey, hang on the line here. I'm going to hook you up with two things. I'm going to hook you up with Financial Peace University, the class, the course, and the EveryDollar app.

I'm going to hook you up. In fact, you can go to everybody listening. You go to every dollar.com slash Deloney and you can get hooked up with the app. You can sign up for, I think it's 30 days or a couple of months, something like that. But I'm going to hook you up Alex for a year with a premium version of it. I want you to use it. And it's an, it's a phone app that can keep y'all connected and give y'all an avenue to talk about money. Also watching these videos, they're just fun. They're informative. They're, you know, people running all over the stages and whatnot, but

They're gonna give you a common language. And I'm gonna send you a copy of "Building a Non-Anxious Life." Y'all can read that together and it can be the roadmap for your home. About having get friends over, about dealing with health, about taking care of your baby, of all those things that we're gonna do together. And remember, if your wife grew up in a third world country, things were very hard, things were very sketchy, things were very scary, things were very insecure, she's gonna have to practice.

living in a more stable environment. And at the same time, she's going to have like some deep existential guilt. Why me? Why did I get out? What about my friends or my family? That's going to be part of her arc, part of her growth story. And lucky she's got you. She's not going to try to solve all that for, but it's going to be by her side every step of the way. I'm grateful for you, Alex. Appreciate you, man. We'll be right back.

Hey, what's up? Deloney here. Listen, you and me and everybody else on the planet has felt anxious or burned out or chronically stressed at some point. In my new book, Building a Non-Anxious Life, you'll learn the six daily choices that you can make to get rid of your anxious feelings and be able to better respond to whatever life throws at you so you can build a more peaceful, non-anxious life. Get your copy today at johndeloney.com.

All right, we're back with something cool that happened. What's up, Kelly? All right, so this person did not give a name, so this is anonymous. So, Kelly. Sure. Hello, Kelly, John, and the whole awesome Deloney team. The last four years of my life, I've been living in a fog, just filling my mind and body with any numbing behavior that I can justify. And in the numbing of constantly scrolling YouTube shorts, I found your show.

I've been listening for the last month, and I'm almost halfway through all of the episodes you have out. Yikes. That's a lot. That's a lot of you. Anyway, that's just a lot of heaviness is what that is. No, you can say it. That's a lot of me. That's more me than I want to deal with.

You've changed the way I looked at marriage, relationships, and mainly myself. It's been so healing to hear from these people and from you. I just signed up for BetterHelp, and I am so excited to start learning how to love and care about myself so that I can live a fulfilling life for me, my friends, and my family. Thank you. That's awesome. Good job, team in there. Good job, you. I accept that. I'm working on doing that because sometimes I do a good job. Look how much I'm coming. I'm coming so far.

Go counseling. So good. Well, hey, I was away this past weekend, so I missed you guys. So it's good to see y'all. It's good to be back in the old, I was going to say in the saddle, but I don't ride horses. I can't imagine you riding a horse. I'm not great at it, but I do feel like a little bit of puberty because my voice has gotten deeper over the weekend. Yeah, mine, I've been sick since last Wednesday and I'm feeling better, but I sound worse. You've also been taking a lot of testosterone shots, so there's that too.

Remember what we talked about? Sorry. Yes. Kelly, you're amazing and you're beautiful and awesome. And I will not make Kelly jokes on the air because people think that I'm mean, but I'm not. It's good to see you guys. Hey, everybody. Thanks for listening. Love you guys. Stay in school. Bye.