Marriage Isn’t What I Thought It Would Be
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Coming up on the Dr. John Deloney Show. People that call in have some serious issues, and I even had reservations calling because I want to have a better marriage with my wife. Some of the other callers I can't compare, I can't hold a candle to, I feel. What I think is a sometimes greater tragedy is the just, this is the way this is going to be.

What's up? This is John with the Dr. John Deloney Show. Coming at you not live at all, but kind of, sort of. It was live when we recorded it. When you're hearing it, it's super not live. From Nashville, Tennessee. So, hope that you're doing well. Hope that you're doing great. Kelly's just shaking her head. Don't tell me to do the intro over. It was amazing. No, but you give away... Some things remain behind the scenes. Like what? You know, it's not live. People, if they want to think it is, just...

You don't have to give away all of our secrets. Live from Nashville, Tennessee. It's this incredible show. We're talking about your marriage. It's the greatest one ever of all time, actually. Marriage, mental health, emotional health, parenting, whatever you got going on in your life, show if you want to be on the show. And you're already thinking, man, you know what I would like to do? Talk to somebody who doesn't sound like he even knows where his socks are.

um about some of the most intimate scary moments of my life i'm that guy give me a buzz at 1-844-693-3291 it's 1-844-693-3291 or go to johndeloney.com slash ask ask all right hey let's go to west palm beach florida and talk to nate dog what's up nathan

Dr. John, what's up? How are you? Man, I'm doing fantastic. I'm not doing a great job at the show so far, but other than that, I'm doing good. What's up? You're doing amazing. It's awesome. I want to thank you for taking my call. It's an honor and a privilege. Well, your kindness is an honor and a privilege, so thank you. What's up?

I wanted to first ask, if you ever move to South Florida, could we start a punk band together? 100%. I will probably never move to South Florida because I grew up with hurricanes and so I just don't dig them. But I'm getting close to needing to start a full-time band, so I'm in. Nice, nice. But dude, we have to slay. We can't just do a punk band that stands there. We have to cause issues.

I, I, uh, well, I seem to do that sometimes. Excellent. All right. So what's up? Well, uh,

I'm married just about 10 years now, and I wanted to just call and talk to you. And I feel like I'm a very likable person and that I don't have too much conflict in my life. And my wife doesn't really see me that way. And I don't know, I just somehow push her buttons and just tend to have an issue with

you know, communicating right and clicking with her in a good way on a consistent basis. What does she not like about you? Time management skills. That's a big one. Be less beat around the bush. Are you late to everything? I am much better at not being late to everything. But in my past, it was kind of the thing that I was known for amongst my friends. But they didn't really, you know,

have a problem with it. So it wasn't a big deal. My wife is very prompt and punctual or at least tries to be as best she can. What else does she not like about you? The fact that you don't answer questions directly and you talk in huge circles around them. So what do the things do?

Um, she just says that we, uh, you know, we don't get along, uh, for things. There's certain things that she wants, you know, have done a certain way and I want to do them another way. When we got married at first, I felt like I, you know, would kind of take control and, and, um, just do things, you know, and, and lead as a, as a husband and everything. Um, and, uh, I felt, you know, uh,

criticized often and and that you know kind of broke me down in a way i feel um and so now i just and this this may be the problem too but i just kind of just go with whatever she wants to you know um where do you want to go out to dinner oh i don't know whatever you want you know that kind of thing so oh yeah this this has become a pretty gnarly dance it doesn't end well

Well, I certainly don't want it to end at all. So, you know, I hear some of your calls, man, and the people that, you know, call in have some serious issues. And I even had reservations of calling because I really, I mean, I want to have a better marriage with my wife.

And I think I deserve that. And I think she deserves that. And so that's why I'm calling. But some of the other callers, it's just like, you know, I can't compare. I can't hold a candle to, I feel so. Well, I always want to be careful about comparing, comparing tough situations, right? Because sometimes the gift of a really tough, like someone's been having an affair for five years is that lid is off the jar. We have to deal with this now.

Right. I was with somebody at their four-year-old's funeral this past weekend. And the father said something to me that was really profound. He said, most people get the option of avoiding grief for most of their life. We didn't have that choice. And I was like, man, that's a heavy, profound truth.

Most of us can side skirt it and go around it and we lost our job. We'll just put on the credit card. There's just ways to get around it. So sometimes when you listen to the show, it's like you've been cheating for five years. It's like, oh, my gosh, that's so bad. But now we can deal with it. What I think is a sometimes greater tragedy is the just this is the way this is going to be.

And it's slowly without people realizing it. You just get underwater. That's stupid. You're dumb. That's not how we do this. I'm not doing it like that. Well, I don't even care anymore. Where do you want? I don't care. And suddenly that's the avenue that one person at work sends you a hilarious text and you reply back. That's how that starts, man.

And so, yes, while you're right, there's not like some sensational, like my wife was like that fair or I've been doing what cool. That doesn't mean that, like you said, y'all don't deserve something different than this. I want to go back to something you said earlier when you said I got married and I thought I would just be the leader. Sometimes people confuse leadership with getting whatever I want. Tell me what you mean by I was going to be a leader and it didn't work out that way.

I would try to, off the top of my head, for example, if we were going on a vacation or doing a trip, going somewhere, doing something, I would...

kind of tend to just wing it in a way, but that's always worked for me. And then when something kind of backfired, a plan fell through or something like that, it became my fault because it was my plan. It was your fault? Yeah, it was your fault. Well, yeah, yeah, yeah. I have to accept that. And over the years have...

tried to avoid putting myself in a situation where I would be at fault and I'm probably at fault for that too. But well, what is it? So this is a strange conversation. The world is getting to hear mid forties me talk to 25 year old me because I'm you. Okay. Okay. How old are you now?

I'm 42. Okay. Well, I got 20 years of figuring it out, but I'm you 20 years ago, 15 years ago. My wife may say one year ago, but I'm going to go with 15 or 20 years ago. Here's what I hated. I hated plans because I thought plans took the spontaneity and joy and an opportunity for random adventure out of life. And so I would plan a short vacation, a short weekend getaway. I'd make no reservations. I wouldn't even call hotels.

I would get off of a plane and say, well, let's go find a cool place to stay. And when we got there, it was always ended up being a La Quinta because we didn't have reservations. I would be like, let's just see what's a cool, like local place. I'm not going to go to a touristy place. I'm not that guy. And we'd end up at either Arby's or somewhere that it was like a sprint back to the hotel bathroom. Right. And it never worked out.

And, or I would drive around. I just like to like, I like to like go feel the vibe of this town. Well, for my wife, that meant four hours driving through neighborhoods in Southern California or in some wherever in a rental car. That's not a vacay. You see what I'm saying? And so I thought plans meant lack of fun. I thought plans meant lack of energy, spontaneity, excitement. And then when she would call me on it, I'd get pissed.

Because it really, like you mentioned, it exposed the fact that I hadn't planned much anything other than look at this trip I did. And what I've learned over the last 20 years is my wife felt uncared for and unsafe and unloved because I didn't even bother to get a hotel room. I didn't even bother to be on time for church. And when I looked at it through that lens, it became a powerful agent of transformation for me. Does that ring a bell at all? Yeah.

And what it meant for me was like planning things. I can't describe it other than it drives me crazy. It makes me bananas. And so here's how we've handled it in my house. And it's worked beautifully. I tell her, here's what I want this trip to feel like. I want it to be an adventure. I want to have, like, I do want to go fishing. Cool. I want to just chill out.

We went on a trip, a camping trip, a couple of friend of ours a couple years ago, and we all got together in a room. It was like, all right, what do you want? I was like, I want to sit by a lake and read a book, probably six books. Awesome. What do you want? I want to go do that. And we all put it on the table. And then my wife said, can I please put all this together like a big puzzle? And I was like, amen, sister, go get it. Because that part gives her life and joy is putting the whole thing together and make an itinerary and make it all work.

And so leadership in that sense is not, we're going to do what I say. Leadership is knowing, oh, that's the right person for this particular role. Thank God. There are people with skills and talents I don't have. And dude, I had to face the fact that me being late communicates to the people around me that they do not matter. And I wish that wasn't the case.

But that brings me to this. That's been the world y'all have created, and then your way of dealing with that is not heading into it. It's opting out. Wherever you want to eat, I don't care. And then the only way she can connect with you is to just beat you down, right? Is any of this ring true? Yeah. At the same time, I would say, you know, if I do make a suggestion, you know, for example, where to eat or whatever, I would say, oh, you're just throwing out names of what, you know, what I, you know,

what's available, not what you actually want. And, and, uh, you know, I would say I would find something to eat any of those. All of those are good. So, you know, what, what works for you, you know, what I'm learning is that this is, this is an overgeneralized statement. So I'm just going to speak about my house and you can take in and leave whatever part of this you want. What my wife really craves from me is, um,

me to have an informed opinion that has been informed by actually thinking about and being present with what's happening. So if I know that I have a date tonight, I communicate that I care about her and our time together by thinking, what do I actually feel like eating tonight? And then telling her, I've been dreaming about a burger all day. Like I can't do any pasta because I'll have the gas. So can I please, I really am feeling Mexican food tonight.

That's what she craves. The food is the byproduct of not being passive. And she can say, I can't do Mexican food tonight already. I can't. What about this? Awesome. But it sounds like your wife is poking you and poking you and poking you. And if she was on the phone with me, I would tell her quit poking. Like that's not an effective strategy. It's a terrible strategy, but she's not on the phone. She's trying to get you to care.

And I know you're saying like, no, I'm telling her I care by saying I don't care. Like I really don't. And I think she's trying to let you know that that isn't communicating what you think it is. You ever see somebody who, you're in South Florida. You ever seen somebody who is on vacation down there and they're trying to talk to somebody who speaks Spanish and the person says no habla ingles and they just say English louder and slower? Yeah. That's what you're doing.

That's what you're both doing to each other, right? Okay. Gotcha. So how do I, how do I, I know, like, I can't make her happy. I, I, I don't think that's anybody's job to make another person happy. Maybe I'm wrong on that, but, um, I want to be able to facilitate like a good relationship and, and I don't want to, I want to know what,

more directly from her what those things are. But at the same time, I don't think I'm going to get a direct answer. I think if you, that leadership you were talking about, that initiative, that putting your standing up tall and planning a weekend away where you take her and you say, we're 10 years in now, and this is, I love you more than life itself. And the marriage we've had, I want to put a period at the end of it and I want to build something new.

And in this new, I communicate to you that I love you, not through only words, but through how I live because my behavior is a language. And I've been late everywhere and I'm loosey goosey everywhere. And I say, I don't care about things that I actually kind of care about or I don't care about, but I know that that isn't a good way to communicate with you. And I want to be different starting today. What would this look like for both of us? Because here's the deal. I think you're right. She doesn't like her life.

And she's trying to either get you to fix it or to at least get you to where she can blame you for it. And is that fair? No. But on the other side, you have backed completely out of your marriage because you got tired of getting poked. And then you're frustrated that she's reaching so far to poke. It's the only way she knows how to connect with you. It's the only way you'll get up and actually fix the thing or decide the thing or whatever the thing. And I think it's just completely control alt deleting the communication how we do this.

Can it be done? Yes, because it happened in my house. It had to start with, and I've talked about this a bunch, I had to start with, how do we want this home to feel like? When you walk in from work and she's there, how do you want this place to feel like? And then what must be true for those feelings to come to fruition? And if you say, I want to come in, I want you to actually be happy that I walked in the door, then she's going to say, okay, then I need to know when you're going to be here and you have to actually show up on time.

We have to have met on Friday, the weekend before, Saturday, and talked about what the menu is for the week. I need you to help with childcare. See what I'm saying? It's about plugging in. What does planning drive you crazy? Why does that just haunt you? Being on time, planning, looking into the future for things. Why do you hate that? I wouldn't say I hate it. Why do you avoid it? Cut.

At this point, because she takes care of all of it. She's had to for a decade. Why do you avoid it? I do feel like she enjoys a lot of things. She...

wants to decide, you know, where we're going on vacations and things like that. You know, we take the kids and all that. And, uh, you know, she gets a lot of enjoyment out of it, finding different places to stay and everything. There's theme parks galore up in Orlando and everything. So I think that she does enjoy doing all of that. Okay. You just said something really important and I'll, I'll, I'll, you and I could talk for hours. I'll leave you with this one. Okay. Um,

There's a great Brene Brown story that she writes in one of her books, but the crux of it is this. She uses the phrase, her and her husband use it back and forth. And by the way, my wife and I have done this for years now, and it's a magic phrase that cuts through all the nonsense. And it's this. The story I'm making up about you is that you like to plan all of these vacations by yourself and that I ruin these and it drives you crazy when I ruin them.

But you enter into that conversation not with, you like to do it. Every time I say it, you complain about, that's not it. The story I'm choosing to make up is that you don't want me to help with these vacation plans. And she would probably say, the story I'm choosing to make up is, you've been telling me for 10 years you don't care. You've been telling me for 10 years by being late to everything that doesn't, you could care, right? So that phrase, the story I'm choosing to make up is. And maybe I'll have a story I'm choosing to make up retreat.

The stories I'm choosing to make up over the last 10 years is I can't do anything right. We know that's not true, but the story I'm choosing to make up is that you don't like me. The story I'm choosing to make up is that phrase will transform your marriage if you all sit down and actually be grownups and have that hard conversation. Here's the deal. I think you're right. I don't think your marriage is falling apart. I think your marriage is in a thinner space than you think it is.

And I think some direct intervention, let's not make the next 10 years, because by the way, we have to choose what it looks like. Let's not make the next 10 years what the last 10 years have been. I want to be different. I want you to be different. I want us to have a different experience here. Let's co-create this together. And that's going to start with you making some plans, being direct and saying, I want to take you out because I want you and I to begin to plan on the next 10 years, what that looks like.

What's the story you're choosing to make up, man? Start making a list of them. Ask her along with you. It may change everything. We'll be right back. Let's talk about Organifi. I just got home from a week in the woods with family and friends and a few hundred high school kids at a summer camp. And as you can imagine, I ate camp food for a week. I didn't sleep great. And high schoolers aren't the most hygienic creatures in the world. And now that I'm home...

And now that you're home for whatever you've been doing this summer, and we're both beginning to settle back into the rhythms of the end of summer, start of school, it's critical that both you and me get back into our wellness routines. And for me, Organifi is a cornerstone of my wellness routine.

I blend the red and green powders together almost every morning, and I keep talking about them. I love my happy drops, and I've revolutionized my sleep with Harmony and Gold Juice Medley. I blend them together and drink them down right before bed, and I sleep like a baby. Organifi helps me with energy and gut health with my sleep and with my mood.

Here's the deal. I take Organifi every single day. And my friends and my family are always stealing my stuff because it's the best of the best. And if it's good enough for me and my friends and my family, it's worth you trying it out. Go to Organifi.com slash Deloney or use promo code Deloney at checkout. That's Organifi.com, O-R-G-A-N-I-F-I dot com slash Deloney. And they're going to hook you up with 20% off everything.

All of it. Invest in yourself with Organifi. All right, we're back. Let's go out to Springfield, Illinois and talk to Nicole. Hey, Nicole, what's up? Hello. What's happening? Oh, nothing. I just wanted to say thank you for your staff for hollering back and grow at me. So number one, you ain't no hollaback girl. That's B-A-N-N-A-S, but two, thank you for being on the show. What's up?

Yes. So I had a question as pertaining about my husband. I'm going to kind of read it off because, you know, nerves, right? So my question to you is when your husband's lifelong dreams are becoming more and more unrealistic as his wife, how can I support him? But in realistic circumstances without him feeling like I am shooting him down or not being supportive. You are between a rock and a hard place, aren't you?

Oh yeah. All right. What's give me a, give me a primer on where you are or what happened. Um, um,

So his dream is wanting to ultimately farm, just farm. Does he have any farming experience or just a ton of YouTube videos? So he was raised on it, yeah. Okay, all right. So he knows what farming is. He knows that life. Okay. Yes, he does. The thing is that he...

Took it over about six years ago because all of a sudden his uncle had passed and it was kind of like, okay, here you go. Oh, he took over the family farm? He did. Okay. So we did, but then come to realize after a year into it that the family had so much debt that my husband was kind of set up for failure. So then it was taken away. Like the farm got repoed?

So, no, we had to sell everything, all the equipment, everything. It's still in the family. Like, our land is still in our family name, but it is owned underneath a family member. So, it's under trust, all this stuff, but other people farm it and...

Yeah. So that was huge. That was, that was like a funeral for him, wasn't it? Uh, yes. Cause it was also during a time that family member died too. So it was a lot. That's, that's heavy. Okay. All right. So, um, like millions and millions of people in America who are farming, they're so trapped in this debt cycle and it's just, what a catastrophe it is. But so he lost it, um, had to sell and, and then what?

And then to fill that void, him and a close friend started to then own cattle. And that kind of filled the grain void of not being able to farm that way. So he fixated with that. And so we've been in that. We've been doing good. And then my husband's still on this train of I want to ultimately just farm, like to do cattle and then to do grain too. My husband works full time.

I work part-time now. We have two kids. It's just come to the realization that in the next couple of years, our land is going to probably go up for sale. So with that being said, we have to buy ground plus buy equipment, try to do all this at one time. All right. So here's a couple of things. Number one, I want you to check out Carbon Cowboys. Okay.

Okay. They have a documentary out, but they also have an Instagram page. And I love the work they're doing with regenerative farming. It's pretty miraculous what they're doing. Okay. And so all I have to say is it's a way of...

older farming without all the fertilizers, not all the tractors, et cetera, et cetera, with cattle. And it's pretty remarkable what they're seeing, the yield they're seeing and overall profit increase. Okay. But that's a side obsession of mine that has nothing to do with this show at all. And I can get way out over my skis real fast with like talking about things I don't know anything about, but I've been blown away by those guys. So check that out. The second thing is this more pertinent to your question. Dreams have to be attached to values.

Otherwise your dreams will kill you. What do I mean by that? I want to be in the movies. I want to be in the movies. I want to be in the movies. It's a dream of mine to be in the movies. You go out to Hollywood and this is 25 years ago, but just go with me on it. You go out to Hollywood. I want to be in the movies. I want to be in the movies. I'm a waiter and I go to auditions all day. And then I finally get a manager who's like, yeah, but you got to take these photos. And you're like, Ooh, I don't feel good about those photos, but I want to do this, but I'm going to do this, but I'm going to do this. All of a sudden you see where this heads.

You end up with a tiny little role in a movie that you're embarrassed to tell your mom you're in. But you got in the movies. And so then the next one is like, well, you can't say no. Now you finally get some momentum. And then suddenly you end up in a place where you never wanted to be because that dream was not attached to any values. I have a dream of being a millionaire. I want to be a millionaire. I want to be a millionaire. I want to be a millionaire. And that dream is not rooted to any sort of plan or any sort of values. You will find yourself slowly cutting corners.

You'll find yourself kind of doing things like, let's just do that one. Let's try this deal. Let's take this bet. Let's go ahead and that warehouse is too big. We can't really afford it, but let's just go ahead and, okay, can you extend the mortgage out a little bit more? Okay, let's do it. And so the work in your home, I want a husband who's dreaming and always thinking about something cool, something that brings the family lineage back, that brings him joy, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.

He wants to redeem the family name. All that's fine and good, but it has to be attached to reality, to a set of values. As for me and my house, we don't borrow money. So a perfect example is at my house, I'm on six, almost seven acres. 85 acres went up for sale of raw land behind me. I can guarantee you I was the first person on the phone to make that call. And they wanted such an insane price for it. I called my buddy Dave Ramsey and was like, hey, is this it? And he's like, that's too high.

Like it's not, it's the investment is too high. And somebody ended up buying it for less than that, but they wrote a check for it. I didn't have the money. I was heartbroken, dude. I wanted this to be generational land for my family. Didn't work out. So now I'm onto the next, see what I'm saying? But my dream of owning a place for family to always come, to always be able to hunt and visit and fish, not going to be on this piece of land because it was attached to a value that the Delonys don't borrow money. You see what I'm, you see what I'm saying here?

No, I do. That's where we have a hardship at is I grew up very frugal. You might, as y'all said on your values, frugality might not be one of your core values anymore. But being safe might be. So we have to decide what does safe mean? Because I can be overly frugal to where my banker buddy is like, what are you doing?

Buy that. I'm like, yeah, you know, but meteorites may come in seven years. And he's like, good, dude, get your wife a car. And so it's about owning those values. So if you and your husband sat down and y'all went out and said, okay, there's a chance in two or three years this land comes up for sale. Before this does, we want to put down in concrete who we are. I'll say your last name is the Smiths.

who are the Smiths? We are a family who fill in the blank. What was a couple of those things be? Oh gosh, we are. Oh my gosh. Sorry. Make them up. Make them up. Make them up what you'd want them to be. Well, I would want us to be is that we are true genuine people. We, um, be more specific. That's too esoteric. Um,

I don't know. I'm sorry. I guess I am. All right. Here's a couple of the Deloney ones that we have on our board. Yeah. The Deloney's say yes to adventures. Okay. The Deloney's, everybody's welcome at our table. Everybody. We have had some incredible people at our house. Our kids are going to have some great stories. Like, whoa, awesome. The Deloney's treat each other and others with dignity and respect.

And on and on. The Delonys take care of our neighbors, right? Those are things that like, that's just into who we are, right? So our kids don't have to wonder if somebody comes over and says, hey, can I borrow some eggs? The answer will always be yes, even if we only have three left, because that's one of our core values. Our core value is not the Delonys will always have extra eggs in the fridge. We'll always take care of us first, and then maybe we'll help the neighbors with what's left over. That's not one of our core values. Our core value is we'll always help the neighbors.

So my kids just know that. See what I'm saying? And so you don't have to answer that because I'll put you on the spot here, but I want you and your husband to sit down and say, hey, who are we going to be? And then anchored to that set of values, we can then dream about, I want to have a truck and a race car and a Tesla tractor. There's no such thing as that, but you know, like whatever you want to dream about, dream all day long. That's amazing. But what I don't want you to, your husband's got an experience where he was given a farm

way over his head in debt, and they took it from him. And in his mind, he's going to get that land back, and he's going to borrow money to get enough fertilizer and enough tractors and enough stuff to get going again. And without meaning to, because his dream is not attached to a set of values other than, I will farm, he's going to find himself in the exact same position, except this time it's his neck on the line, not the family's. Right?

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you're right. And it just makes me worried because I don't want to have resentment over anything. That's right. So the conversation begins with, honey, I want to support your dream to farm as much as possible. I want to support you. And here's where I don't feel safe. I don't feel safe with you going to borrow $450,000 and put our family name on it. I don't feel safe with you quitting your day job and this not making any money and us relying on subsidies to eat.

I don't feel safe with X, Y, and Z. So I want to create a set of values that says no matter what, even if we have to pass on this land deal and buy some different land another time, this is who we. And also it would help if you said, and also I'm too frugal. I know that. But I do it as a sense to try to keep the teeter-totter from going all the way one side. So I overcorrect on the other side. I want us to stop overcorrecting on either side. I want to support your dreams to the end of time. And also I want you to create a home where I feel safe and our kids feel safe.

It starts not with a bunch of actions and wild activity. It starts with a plan. It starts with a set of values. Here's who we are. Now let's go make a plan. And now if we can get that land, we can get that land. And if we can't this time, that'll suck and we'll be heartbroken and we'll grieve it. And then we're going to go find some different land next time and on and on. He's lucky to have you, Nicole. Have the conversation about values. It's a tough one and it may take you several times, several different kinds of conversations. But let's have that conversation about what you want, what you need, what he wants, what he needs.

And then we'll go from there. Thanks for the call. We'll be right back.

And it's this season when it's super important to make sure you double and triple down on your exercise practices, your counseling, your relationships, and your spiritual health. And if you're a person of faith or if you're just curious and you don't know anything about this faith, prayer, whatever stuff, don't let your daily prayer or your meditation practices or your questions go unanswered or by the wayside. Don't let your still time with God go.

As things ramp up and get more and more chaotic, we have to choose to slow down and focus on the things that really, really matter.

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Go to hallo.com slash Deloney today for three free months. That's hallo, H-A-L-L-O-W dot com slash Deloney. All right, let's go out to Ann in Helena, Montana. Hey, Ann, what's up? Hi, Dr. John. Thanks for taking my call. Of course. What's happening?

So my husband has a problem with overspending. Is this my wife? No. I feel like this is the cosmos making this call. All right, go ahead. Well, I'm to the point where I'm thinking about taking him off of our joint account. Oh, so he overspends, overspends.

He overspends and overspends and pulls money from different pools that we have money set aside from. And I just think that it's getting to the point that he can't put those funds back in. And I'm just looking for some other ideas potentially to handle this rather than taking him off. Because I just feel like it seems a little extreme to cut him off those accounts, especially because like...

I want us to have joint financials. I want us to work together on it. And I feel by like me removing him from everything is going, it seems really controlling, like, and take a little, a little over the top. And I've made the comment to him before that, like, if he doesn't stop that, that could happen, but I don't, but making a statement like something could happen and actually doing it or two different things. Do we have any other ideas? Yeah, I,

Tell me I'm wrong, okay? I would love to be wrong about what I'm about to say, okay? There's a particular cadence in the way you talk where you start talking and your body starts to feel and acknowledge the reality of what you're saying because you know it to be true. It's your lived experience. It's the world you inhabit. And then really quickly without even thinking about it because you've been gaslit for so long, it's all going to be okay in the

And then as we talk about it, it's like this guy is going to bankrupt our family and I'm scared to death. But you know what? I don't want to be too controlled. See what I'm saying? Yes. Now. I do. I want you to take all the, you have been really kind for probably your whole life. You have been a fixer and a no, no, no, no, no. It's going to be okay. It'll be okay. It'll be okay. It'll be okay for a long time.

And I'm reading a lot into a cadence, but it's a very particular cadence that I don't hear very often. Tell me I'm crazy. No, I fix things for everybody. Okay, you always have. I do. I want you to sit in how uncomfortable the truth of this is. Tell me how bad it is. Don't defend him. Don't protect him. Tell me how scared you actually are. That one day he's just going to...

wipe out all of our money and we're not going to have any funds and we're not going to be able to pay for anything. All right. Is that an anxious response or give me some, give me some data to back that up. How does he spend money? What does he buy? Well, he would, well, so he has a separate account that's completely separate from our other accounts that I, that we put funds into every month.

And I've always said that that's his account. He can do whatever he wants with it. Why does he have his own separate special account that's just for him and not for the family? Because he doesn't want me knowing what he spends his money on. Yeah, that's bull crap. That's what, that tells you all you need to know about the state of your marriage, Ann. And you know that. You know that. Why would he, what does he have to keep from you? I don't know. Maybe he just doesn't want me to know how much he's spending on certain stuff. Like what?

Um, like, I don't know, maybe I will think because I'm not I don't really drink and he likes to drink. And I think that maybe he'll think I'm spending he's spending too much money there. And I'll tell him he needs to stop it, that he's that he can't do some of the things that he wants to do.

Do you hear what you're saying? I'm saying those things anyway, but he can't do them because he can't afford them anyway. I know, but he's stealing from his family to fund his alcohol. He's stealing from his family to fund his little boy trips. Yeah. I know without a shadow of a doubt that if I buy a piece of guitar equipment, my wife cannot in the depths of her soul understand it. Can't. Cannot wrap her head around it. And yet she trusts me. We talk about our money.

I'm not just buying things in a vacuum, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. See what you see what I'm saying? What does your husband say when you've had this conversation with him before? Um, his thing is like, this is, this is what, how thing we've been doing this for a long time. And like that, it shouldn't be a problem. And I keep reminding him that it is a problem because he keeps overspending. Um,

And I've done, like, we've done some other things. He's had some other issues in the past. Like what? Like he's got a credit card. And we, and I cleaned, and I cleaned all those up. And so then I put this, when I did this, this felt like it was a little much. So his credit is frozen, but he doesn't have a code to unfreeze it. Only I do. Uh-huh. No, here's why it's not too much. Because you are his mother and he is your child. He has been for a long time.

And so you have to create very maternal boundaries because he acts like a little boy, period. And you know this, Ann. I know. I know that it's like, I know that I, especially like when it comes to finance, it feels like I'm parenting him along the way. You are. You are. Yeah. So in my world, I call this financial infidelity. And I'll tell you.

Number one, I have zero trust to a guy that looks at his wife and says, I'm going to have a separate account because I don't want you knowing what I'm spending it on.

Now, I've got friends and their spouses have separate accounts. They trust each other, but it's not like a you can't see in that account. Like everybody knows everything. It's just a matter of that's how they choose to run their house. And I give them a hard time about it because I think that's stupid. And then the data backs me up on that too, by the way. But some people just choose to do it that way, and that's fine. They think I'm stupid for sharing an account with my wife. That's fine. We can argue about that over dinner. But if somebody says, hey, I'm going to have this separate life that you can never see, my first question is what are you hiding from?

From the mother of your children. What are you hiding from the woman who said, I do? You said, I do too. And I will defend and protect you for the rest of your life till death do us part. I will love and honor you. What yours is yours and what's mine is ours. And I'm in.

Very interesting. It's not very interesting. So I should be having a conversation with him and be more about like, why do you have to have this separate account? And what are you like? We really need to talk about what you're spending your money on. No, because here's why. I know there's something else. What else is there? This kind of behavior doesn't happen in a vacuum. Well, we've talked about this before too, because like his thing is, it's not a big deal. Like he always says, it's not a big deal. Like when you racked up the credit card debt,

Um, like his first response. So we grew up in very different situations. His parents had a lot more money than my parents ever did. And so when it came time to settle down,

When I found out about the credit card and said we were going to work through it, he was more like, I'll just call my mom and she'll give us the money. Oh my gosh. And yes, we have a big problem with that. It's a constant thing where like we get in, like he gets into a pinch and his mom will just write him a check and cover it. And I've talked to her about this too, about not

telling him yes all the time, that he needs to be able to save up for the things that he wants, that he needs to be able to say no to himself a little bit. But she just can't seem to say no to him either. Nobody's ever said no to him in his life. And that means he doesn't have a psychology for the word no. You might as well just be standing next to him bashing a cymbal with a stick. He has no, I mean, your words don't make sense to him. They don't compute in his head neurologically because he's never had to face the consequence.

That's very true. And so in this moment, I have a rule. I only speak if I think somebody can hear me and he can't hear you. You've tried or he can hear you. And he's looked at you and said, I really don't care what you say. I don't care what you think. I don't care what you think makes us makes you safe. I don't care what you think is a big deal. I don't care what you think would bring us closer together as a couple. I'm going to do whatever I want to do. You don't get to know what it is. And my mommy will bail me out.

Or I'll just steal it from our joint account from you and the kids. That's the reality. Yeah. And so if you were my, if you were my sister, if you were my close friends who are married women, I would tell you it's time for you to get your own checking account that is just yours. Do you make the most, the majority of the money in the house or does he?

I do. Go figure, right? I get surprised. The adult in there, the single parent, which you are. And when he decides to stop hiding separate accounts and have a joint account and to then sit down every week and go over a budget together and co-create a life together like adults,

Then we'll talk. But until then, you're not going to continue to fund this imaginary misbehavior because he's drinking himself to death or he's seeing a bunch of other people, a bunch of other women on the side. But you don't know. Or he's day trading or digging hole after hole. Who knows? Sports betting. Who knows what he's doing? You know why? Because he's created a secret life that you can't see. And that's not how marriage works. I'm trying to empower you, not beat you down. I want you to stand tall. No, no, no.

Well, and like I've tried, we've tried, I've tried to get him to go to counseling. He, listen, he has never experienced a consequence. I know. So you try to get him to go to counseling. He knows if he doesn't go, nothing changes. Okay. I've tried to get him to do this. He knows I don't even need a credit score. I'll just call my mom. Right. Like none of these, none of these normal things matter to him. Yeah. Most importantly, your heart doesn't matter.

And until he has to experience, as my friend Henry Cloud says, until he gets some problems in his life, he'll never change. And I won't blame him. I wouldn't change. I mean, why would you change? If you were never taught character and integrity and consequences, it would sound like someone's just yelling at you in a foreign language. And you who've grown up making sure everybody's okay, your whole life just fell right into this role. And I want more for you in this life.

So what do I do? I'm here. I think you get very clear. Are you talking to somebody, a professional? I was for a little while because I was dealing with a lot of anxiety. Yeah, of course, because your body knows you're not safe. Yeah, it's been trying to get your attention for a long time, hasn't it? Yeah, it's been a couple years. Yes.

If you have a close, trusted friend, that would be great, that you can be completely 100% honest and not try to protect everybody and defend everybody, and you end up as the bad guy in this deal because I don't think you are. If you don't have that person, I understand. You don't feel safe with somebody, I understand, but you've got to get with somebody and have the conversation. And what you have to decide is here's going to be my boundaries when it comes to the money coming in because I have somebody over here who's bankrupting our family, doing God knows what.

Well, I've talked to my sister. My sister and I are really close. But unfortunately, they're not always the most helpful. Of course they're not. My sister just tells me that he needs to leave. And it may be time that you listen to your sister. There's so many other great things about him. I know. I know. It's both and. And I hear this especially from women who are physically abused.

It's only when he gets angry. All the other times, he's hilarious and he's amazing and he's a good provider and all that. It's just when he gets mad or just when he drinks and then I have to go to the hospital. And that's why if you're safe, are you safe now? Yeah. Okay. Like I'm never, you've never made me feel unsafe. Okay. So I think it's worth a conversation. I can't live like this anymore where we both have a mother and it's your mother and where you are disinterested in us being together. So here,

Is what I need. Are you in? And I'm going to ask you to don't say it's a big deal because it might not be to you, but it's a big deal to me. Okay. And I want to close all the accounts. And you can see on his credit report where his accounts, I want to close all the accounts. I want to have one account. I want to have one budget. And we're not going to have secret spending and secret accounts. We're going to discuss what we buy things, what we're spending money on. And yes, if my husband's drinking too much, I'm going to say, I'm worried about your health. That's what friends do for each other. That's what loved ones do for one another.

And if you're seeing somebody else with your secret money, that's going to come out. And if you're caught in addictions of some sort and with this other secret account, then it's going to come out. But all of this begins with you and believing that you're worth something more than this, that your body has been trying to get your attention for years. We're not okay. We're not safe. We're not safe. We're not safe. We're not safe. We're not safe. And you're thinking, yeah, I know. I know. But he's so nice. He is funny. Your body's saying, okay, we get it, but not safe. And I'll tell you this. Um,

Conflict deferred is conflict amplified. The longer you go without saying something, the crazier this thing gets. It won't just go away. My hope is that you'll sit with somebody, map out, here's what I need and here's what I want inside my own house. And then terrifyingly, vulnerably, you sit across the table from your husband and you say, this is what I have to have. Are you in? He might look at you and say, nope, going back to my mommy's house.

And that will tell you all you need to know about the status of your marriage. Hopefully he looks at you and goes, I don't even know how to get there, but I'm in because I love you. I love our kids. I love our life. I'm in. That's my hope and prayer for you. Hang on the line. I'm going to send you a copy of Building a Non-Anxious Life. That's my gift. Read that book start to finish, and it will give you a roadmap that you can possibly use with him. Y'all can build a whole different kind of marriage. What are you thinking about, Cham? We'll be right back.

What's up, friends? Dr. John Deloney here. Tickets are selling like madhouse for the money in marriage getaway happening over Valentine's Day weekend in 2025.

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There are a few VIP tickets left up for grabs that include a meet and greet with me and Rachel Cruz. And we are so jazzed to meet you all in person. There's not many tickets left. So don't wait. Please don't wait. Please come go to Ramsey solutions.com slash getaway to get your tickets. That's Ramsey solutions.com slash getaway. All right. We're back. As we wrap up the show, we have a cool thing that happened. What is it? Kelly? Yes. All right. This is from Brittany in Virginia.

So I was stood up on a first date and a random stranger and his son left the restaurant after they finished eating, then came right back in because they felt that something didn't sit right. The dad wanted to ensure that I was safe. It turned into a long fatherly conversation about how to date. He even walked me to my car to show me what a gentleman should do. Hopefully this encourages more folks to strike up conversations with strangers.

I know I will be doing it more in the future. Also wanted to add that this awesome guy was a disabled vet, so he's already the best of the best. Dang. Okay, so I'm imagining myself, me and Hank are out eating. Or last night. Last night, Josephine and I went on a date. And we went to the Loveless Cafe. We ordered obnoxious food. I surprised her with a yes day. And it was a blast. And we both are pre-diabetic now, but it was a fun night.

And so I show up there with her and I look across the table and see a woman who is dressed up, looking around, checking her watch, checking her phone. 15 years ago, no question about it, I would have said something. Now I feel nervous about that interaction. Help me on that interaction, Kelly. Why do you feel nervous about it? I don't come across as creepy or as like getting in somebody's business. And I'm a guy that gets in everybody's business. And I understand that. And that's true. Um,

And it may be that she says, I'm fine. Thank you. I don't need your help. Yeah. Great. But I think that... If this vet says, hey, are you okay? And she said, well, I just got stood up on a date. Yeah. And then he says, can I sit down? And she goes, yeah.

And now we can have a conversation. Right. I mean, you have to ask for permission to play, you know? And, but I think about not only did he help her, but man, the lesson he taught his son. Oh, heck yeah. Keep your eyes open, man. Head on a swivel. And that, and just, this is how you treat a lady. This is what you do. And it was just such a lesson for the son. In addition to helping this, this wonderful woman out and making sure she was safe. And hopefully she walks out thinking about two inches taller thinking,

I'm worth that. Right. I don't want to date this guy. I don't want to go out with this guy anyway. Yeah. Good call. Good on you, good man. I'm going to call you Joe. Good on you, Joe. Thank you for your service. Thank you for taking care of people. And thank you for continuing to serve your neighbors. And especially thank you for teaching your son this is what caring for somebody looks like. Good on you, man. Good on you. Thanks for writing in, Brittany. Everybody else, stay in school. Love you. Bye. Bye.