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Coming up on the Dr. John Deloney Show. How do I go to sleep at night when I just can't get past worrying that she's not going to be awake when I get up in the morning? When babies are breathing, sometimes it sounds like nobody told me that, but I just can't go to sleep. The first step to getting some sleep is this, knowing that your body's working exactly as it should be. What up, what up, what up, what up? This is John with the Dr. John Deloney Show. I'm so glad that you're with us.
Talking about your emotional health and your marriage and your mental health and your kids and whatever else you got going on in your life. The dating world that is gone. B-A-N-A-N-A-S. Whatever you got going on.
My promise is I'll sit with you and we will figure out what's the next step. What's the next right thing you can do? Real people going through real challenges. If you want to be on the show, give me a buzz at 1-844-693-3291. It's 1-844-693-3291. Or go to johndeloney.com slash ask. A-S-K. All right, let's go out to New Orleans. New Orleans, one of my favorite places on the planet. And talk to Mark. Hey, Mark, what up, man?
Dr. John, it's beautiful down here. It is, man. It's the eating capital of planet Earth. I know. I should be calling you about my eating and drinking, but I'm not ready to stop yet. Yeah. Step one would be leave New Orleans. But hey, it's some of the greatest food I've ever had in my life ever, ever, ever. So got to fit on the plane to leave. That's the problem. Well played there. All right. So what's up, brother? How can I help?
I am blessed to say that I had a beautiful daughter born two weeks ago. Yeah, dude. Congratulations, man. Thank you. I appreciate it. And I know we'll dive into all the details, but to keep it quick and short up front, how do I go to sleep at night when I just can't get past worrying that she's not going to be awake when I get up in the morning? Oh, man. Tell me about that. It is...
It's crazy. I really, you know, not to plug the book, but you talk about building a non-anxious life. And for a long time, I felt that I had and I, you know, lived without anxiety. And then something about her being born has triggered it.
Um, to layer on top of that, unfortunately, her mom has had to go back to the hospital a few times. Um, luckily she's back home with us now, but there were a few nights there where, um, you know, it was me with the baby without mom. And I just can't, I just can't, uh, get every time I laid down, um,
For folks who don't have babies, when babies are breathing, sometimes it sounds like choking. Nobody told me that. But I just can't go to sleep. And I'm starting to, as it happens, when you don't go to sleep, I'm starting to go crazy. Yeah. Well, the first step to getting some sleep is this. Knowing that your body's working exactly as it should be. There's nothing wrong with you. You're not malfunctioning in any sort of way. Okay? Yeah.
And I know that it almost sounds like it would be better if you were malfunctioning because then you could fix the malfunction and then go on about your life. And the reality is your body's recognizing you've got a ton of new responsibility now, man. You got a baby girl and you've never been married to a mom before. And you got a really quick like, oh, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. That mom had to go back to the hospital, right? Right. What was it? Was it blood pressure, bleeding? Why'd you have to go back?
It was, it was the blood pressure. Right. Okay. So you got a ringside seat. She had to go, she had to go back and then they let her out. And the day they let her out, I was in the hospital visiting with the baby. And I was thinking, it seems too quick because we haven't gotten enough good labs back, but they said, she can go, she can go. And she had to go back in. And then, so I think part of, to your point, part of me isn't trusting that she's not going to have to go back any moment. Of course. And, uh,
Um, I didn't experience that until years. So, I mean, sometime later after my first kid was, was born that additional terrifying layer that, Oh man, if something happens to my wife, I'm all alone. Right. That's extra terrifying. And if you're like me,
We never babysat. Nobody trusts young kids, young boys with babysitting, right? And young boys often aren't drawn or steered in that direction. And so I didn't know how anything worked. I didn't even know the questions to ask to learn how things worked. Like, what's a baby sound like when they're breathing?
How many times does a baby go to the bathroom during the day? How do you connect a diaper, which is basically built like out of some engineer who builds skyscrapers developed the diaper, right? I didn't know any of that stuff worked. And it's imagine yourself in any situation. They drop you in a car in the formula one line and everyone's revving their engine. And they're like, are you ready? Like you'd be anxious there too, right?
And you'd be saying, I don't know how to drive. I don't know. What are we doing? How fast? I don't even know the rules. That's what just happened with you. Okay. Yeah. And so a lot of anxiety begins in a loop. You have a stressful situation and you start thinking about that situation and then you forecast the worst possible things about that situation.
And then your mind is off to the races and it gets stuck in that loop over and over and over. And then you don't sleep and then it makes the loop faster and louder and then we're off and we're off and we're off. So let's short circuit that loop. Let's intentionally get out of that loop and exhale and say the words, my baby's going to be great. My baby's going to be safe. And I don't know what I'm doing. And so the fact that I now have this huge responsibility and I don't know how it all works.
It means my body's really sounding all the alarms it's got to try to get my attention, that we have a huge new responsibility. I'm like, all right, cool. And the thing about anxiety is once you get back in the driver's seat, it stops the alarms. It stops sounding the alarms so wildly. Okay? But it's about heading right into it. So let's be super direct and very precise. What are you most scared about right now?
During the day, it dissipates, but at night, I'm worried about her potentially being suffocated. And by the way, whoever named Sid's sudden infant death syndrome is just the cruelest doctor of all time, but that is what I'm most terrified about. Okay.
Have you, have you asked the doctor or heaven forbid, even Googled what percentage of babies are, what's the number? I have Googled, I have Googled every possible concern I've had and that makes it more terrifying. Yeah. Stop doing that. Do you have a friend you can call? Who's a dad?
I'm the first in my friend group, but I have, I haven't, you know, I have, we're lucky to have incredibly close family. We have a big family and there are folks I can call them, but this is one piece of it. I should tell you too, that when the baby came out,
You know, having only seen it in movies, like you said, and nothing around it. It's nothing, nothing, nothing like the movie. No, it isn't. But what really triggered my stress response was I could tell something was slightly wrong with the baby because they had doctors, like, coming in.
And the baby came out gray. And since then, to your point, I've learned that this isn't a top flight emergency. But in the moment, I was asking the doctors and they were saying, everything's fine, everything's fine, while they were handling the situation. But I could tell everything wasn't fine. And so even though intellectually I trust the doctors, I'm also at a point now where I'm kind of...
distrustful of everything because in that moment I could tell and I know why they were doing it but I could tell they weren't being 100% honest with me and it really well hold on they were being honest there can be a problem and they have it all under control at the same time right see what I'm saying the challenge with anxiety is this I think I've told this story before I remember when I was over my head man or a bit underwater with anxiety and
I remember I had some beautiful mind map on how the economy was going to collapse again. And it was all string and tax and I'd figured it all out. And I was sitting with a CFO of $150 million company. And I walked through it, what I was going to do and why. And he looked at me and said, yeah, I don't know what's going on, man, but don't do that. And I walked out. I've got no finance background at all. I didn't manage a giant company or anything like that. And I remember thinking, this guy has no idea what's coming.
And so the fear of like the evil of anxiety is it tries to make you the, the, the God of your own domain. And that's why the antidote is often reaching out to other people. Cause you know, the one thing you're not an expert in prenatal care, baby deliveries, OBGYN stuff, right? Correct. Okay. So if a group of doctors, here's an alternative response that I had.
I saw all the nurses and three doctors or whatever run and circle up my son too. I've been in enough crisis stuff. I knew something wasn't good. And I barged through. What's happening? What's happening? And one nurse said, everything's fine. And I said, something's not fine. What's happening? And she said, your baby's fine. And then somebody turned and held up the umbilical cord. And it had a knot in it. The knot just wasn't cinched.
And so if he, my son had swam a little bit more or kicked a little bit more, it would have cinched it and it would have suffocated him. And so what they were, what their stress was, was an almost. So I tell you to tell you, if they tell you everything's fine and things are gonna be okay, then things are probably fine. They're going to be okay. And if they're not, you worrying about it, isn't going to solve it.
So I always want you to go back and start writing these fears down because, by the way, the fears are going to move. I want you to have something by your bed that is, that is, is anxieties about being a new dad. And I want you to write them down as they happen. The doctors are not telling me the truth. All right. I want you to then write down, is this true or not? Yes or no.
If you believe, no, you're not telling me the truth, then you as the daughter of this new baby need to look a doctor in the eye and say, I don't think I believe you. Tell me more. And a good doctor will. They'll sit down and know this is scary and terrifying and all that, and they will talk to you more. The third thing I want you to write down under each one of these anxieties and fears is this. What can I do about it?
So if you ask a family member or a friend or somebody that you know, somebody from your church, a mentor, by the way, I'm always telling folks, you need to have friends and community outside of work. I'll tell you, Jean-Noel Thompson,
Dr. Thompson, one of my great mentors and friends, he's who I called when my wife went into labor and he's who I called. He's got a bunch of kids, but he also was very thoughtful and could explain things to me. Hey, you're about to be nervous about this, don't. My friend Kevin, my friend Michael, my friend Slade, my friend John, these are guys that I worked with and I called them because I didn't have a lot of men friends in my life with young kids and they were a little bit older than me. But you got to find a couple of guys who've been down that road. And even if you have a couple of young moms who have been down that road to help coach you.
Okay. And I want you to get a routine for you. It's real easy that this little baby, it becomes your universe and your planet. I want you to get a routine for you. Exercise. One of you, you or your wife has to sleep. I am totally 100% opposed to if I'm awake, you got to be awake. That's insane. That's a recipe for both people in your house to be delirious.
One of you needs to be sleeping when the other one's awake. That means sometimes someone's got a, that means she's got a pump so that you can feed it in the middle of the night and she can get some sleep and vice versa. But those guys who just wake up and they're just sitting there bleary eyed next to, that's a recipe for somebody to not have their head on straight inside the house. That's not safe and it's not smart. Okay. Get a routine for you. Get a routine for your wife. Begin asking your wife every day, how can I love you today? And you mentioned it when you're at work, this stress and anxiety dissipates.
Because you've got purpose. You're doing something. You're not just sitting there stewing and stewing and stewing and stewing. So ask your wife, how can I love you today? And begin to lean into those things. It'll give your body a chance to cycle through some of those stress hormones.
And do the big things. Get your debts paid off. Don't take things personally. This baby will not care about you for a long time, months. And that's okay. It's part of the process. Don't take it personally. When you can't get the baby to stop screaming or stop crying, that's part of having a baby, right? Continue to do the things a good man would do all the time.
Head straight towards the anxiety. Be honest about what you need. And if your wife is going through her own anxiety challenges, she is learning how to be a new mom. She's learning how to get her health back because her body's been scared her too. Then you're going to have to reach out to somebody. You may have been leaning on her for a long time. You have to reach out to other people.
You're going to have to connect with folks and say, all right, the most masculine thing I can do in this moment right now as a new dad of a beautiful, safe, wonderful new daughter is ask somebody for help to reach out. And by the way, by the way, raising a daughter is scary, man. Raising a son is too. But for me, it was a different experience. And I don't know why. I wish I was elevated and above all of that. And I wish I was just all the same. It wasn't for me.
And it's probably not for you. Raising a daughter is scary. It is scary for me. And I know enough to know that running from that fear is the worst, least fatherly thing I can do. My job is to head into that fear and be honest about it. You're going to be a great dad, man. You're going to be a great dad.
Stay on the line. I'm going to send you a copy of Building an Unanxious Life. That's my gift to you. I'm also going to send you all of the couples questions for humans decks because I want you and your wife to practice staying connected during this time so y'all don't end up on two separate planets. Every time you feel uncomfortable, anxious, stressed, nervous about a thing, I want you to write it down. Write it down and then ask yourself, is this true? And then ask yourself, what can I do about that right now? Stop Googling stuff.
And by the way, chances are, big time chances are, that sweet baby girl of yours is going to grow up to live a long, amazing life. She's lucky to have you as a dad. We'll be right back. Let's talk about Organifi. I just got home from a week in the woods with family and friends and a few hundred high school kids at a summer camp. And as you can imagine, I ate camp food for a week. I didn't sleep great. And high schoolers aren't the most hygienic creatures in the world. And now that I'm home...
And now that you're home for whatever you've been doing this summer, and we're both beginning to settle back into the rhythms of the end of summer, start of school, it's critical that both you and me get back into our wellness routines. And for me, Organifi is a cornerstone of my wellness routine.
I blend the red and green powders together almost every morning, and I keep talking about them. I love my happy drops, and I've revolutionized my sleep with Harmony and Gold Juice Medley. I blend them together and drink them down right before bed, and I sleep like a baby. Organifi helps me with energy and gut health with my sleep and with my mood.
Here's the deal. I take Organifi every single day. And my friends and my family are always stealing my stuff because it's the best of the best. And if it's good enough for me and my friends and my family, it's worth you trying it out. Go to Organifi.com slash Deloney or use promo code Deloney at checkout. That's Organifi.com, O-R-G-A-N-I-F-I dot com slash Deloney. And they're going to hook you up with 20% off everything.
All of it. Invest in yourself with Organifi. All right, let's go out to Gilbert, Arizona and talk to Lisa. Hey, Lisa, what's up? Hi, John. How are you today? I'm awesome. How about you? Oh, I'm doing pretty good. Thanks so much for having me on. Of course. Thanks for calling. What's happening?
Okay, so my overall question is, how can I show love and support for my husband who was diagnosed with depression? Tell me about that. Yes, a little backstory. So we've been married for seven years, and we have two little kids.
And honestly, the first few years of our marriage, we just had a great foundation, best friends, and just love to spend time together. A few years ago around the birth of our first child, I just noticed my husband just withdrawing and just seeming really burnt out, which I kind of thought was normal to being new parents. But things just kind of got worse with him. Lots of mood swings, um,
weight gain, just lack of motivation, always tired, which just really affected our relationship. And it got just progressively worse. Last year, about a year ago, he confided in me that he was having suicidal thoughts. Sorry. You're okay. You're all right. Take it, man. Yeah. Take it, man. That's a scary thing when someone you love, your husband, best friend, dad of your kids,
Says that out loud. That's terrifying. Yeah. Okay. Definitely. Yeah. So, which I'm so grateful that he confided that in me. And it was at that point that I just really, you know, asked him, begged him to seek some help, which he did. He has been going to therapy and started seeing a psychiatrist and he
They've diagnosed him with depression and he's started on medication and that's all going well, I believe. And so I'm proud of him, but I feel like it's easy. Hold on, I don't think it is going well. Yeah. It doesn't sound like it's going well. I think I'm trying to believe that it's going well. I know you're trying to be overly, overly optimistic and your body is trying to remind you that there's a reality here that you're desperately trying to ignore. What is the reality you're trying to gloss over?
I think the reality is that we could be dealing with depression in our marriage for, you know, forever now. And I think I'm just really overwhelmed with that reality that was never a part of our marriage before. And I feel like I'm now kind of living in constant fear that his depression will lead to suicide. And it's hard when then
When there's good days and I think, oh, great. He wants to get out of bed today and he wants to spend time with the family and, you know, this and that. And then it can just so easily switch to bad days or bad weeks. And so...
I'm proud of him for the help that he's getting, and he's not just pushing that away, and he's not trying to push me away, but it just feels like it's this constant thing now that we'll just never have relief from, and it's exhausting, and it feels kind of discouraging. So that...
The path for me and you forward is I need you to be like insanely glaringly honest. Is that cool? Okay. Yeah. And your honesty will be a gift to other men and women who are in the same situation you're in. Okay. Okay. And it will probably be scary to say some of this stuff out loud. Okay. Okay. Are you at this point truly worried still about him or...
And or, right? Both and can be true. Are you really heartbroken that this is how your marriage looks right now? I think both. Okay. And it's honest and not a bad thing to say both. Yeah. You feel blindsided. How much of this do you feel like a sense of rejection because you can't woo him out of this or solve him out of this?
Yeah, I absolutely feel like it's rejection. And, you know, everything I've tried to learn about depression and whatnot, I feel like it all says that it's not about me. But when you've just been married to someone for so long and they're your best friend, it's like, how can you not take it personal? Sure. Yeah, it's tough. It's very tough. Especially, like, I'm going to say some things and just tell me, yes, I've thought that or said that out loud to myself. Okay. Yeah.
We used to totally party. We had sex all the time. And is it me? Suddenly I'm not attractive anymore because depression and often the medications have some significant impacts on sex life. If you won't get out of bed for me, you won't even get out of bed for your kid. Right. Right. Like it's so beautiful outside. What is like, what's wrong with me? What's wrong with our kids that you won't write fill in blank? Is that, have you had those thoughts? You said those things?
Yeah, absolutely. Okay, listen to me. I want you to know you're not a bad mom and you're not a bad wife and you're not a bad lover. You're not a bad anything, okay? You're allowed to think those things and say those things out loud. The more you don't think those things and the more you don't say those things out loud, the more chance you have to end up in resentment. And if you've listened to this show for a second, that's a place I never wanted to go to. Or as Gottman, the contempt, right? Or I just am disgusted by so-and-so.
Yeah, I definitely have felt that resentment creeping in this year. I know, I know. I want to challenge you, your characterization of things are going great. He's getting better. It doesn't sound like if he still has weeks, plural, where he won't get out of bed, can't get out of bed, he needs to seek inpatient treatment. This is a big deal. Has he considered that? I feel like...
It's never gotten to the point where he won't get out of bed for days on end, especially since he's been getting the treatment that he's been getting. Okay. But there's definitely just that withdrawing that happens that sometimes just takes me by surprise where it seems like, oh, last week you wanted to go on a date night with me or you wanted to get out on a Saturday and this week you just...
you don't really want to be around or you just want to go straight to work or you want to just stay in bed for a long time in the mornings and not really be with us. And I can just tell, I feel like I know him well enough to see when there's like that dark cloud and it's just, it's still like a whiplash sometimes. A critical part of the, of getting well is recognizing when the dark cloud starts to, when the, when the clouds are gathering and getting an action plan,
As far upstream as possible. Have y'all talked about that? Not really, no. Okay. It's time for you to either join him in his counseling, not with a psychiatrist, but with his counselor, or y'all two go to marriage counseling because you're going to play a huge part in his recovery. Because let me show you how this thing will work if y'all aren't careful. He'll feel a little bit better. He'll come out of his room ready to be the dad he wants to be, ready to be the husband he's been before and wants to be.
And the whole pace of the house will be moving really fast. And he's got these tiny steps and these tiny wins. And the pace of the house is fast. And then suddenly you, not for any fault of your own, not even close. And I'm asking you, I'm begging you not to wear this personally. You'll say, hey, can you go grab this thing quick? The kid's got to go to. And his body will go whoosh, right? And then he'll feel embarrassed and ashamed that he can't be the guy that he wants to be. And his body will tell him, told you so.
And that withdrawal begins slowly right there. And he'll fight it and he'll fight it because he's trying to do right. And he's trying to get better. He's trying to get, be whole. He's trying to be the guy you want him to be and the kids he wants him to be. And it gets exhausting. You see, it just gets in the shame loop. So y'all go meet with somebody. And here's the purpose of meeting together. We're going to, you are his eye in the sky. Like the old pirate ship, you're in the crow's nest. And you can see way further down the road than he can.
And when you see him take an extra 15 minutes to get out of bed and he skips X and skips Y and suddenly, you know, here we go. Y'all will have agreed upon a plan that he's a part of. Here's where depression and healing gets really messy. We all know that motivation is a terrible master. Motivation is a terrible God.
And so he's going to have to learn to do things when he doesn't want to, doesn't feel like it, doesn't feel motivated to do it. And in the nerd world, we call it tiny wins, tiny steps. And if you take those tiny wins and tiny steps, you're teaching your body that you can. And that's the path out, right?
Right. And you don't want to bother him and don't want to burden him. And he doesn't want to bother and burden you. And then we get in this weird loop and he feels like he's missing out on his life. And then he feels ashamed. And then he does miss out on his life. And here we go again and again and again. Does that sound like your home? Yeah, I would say so. Exactly. Okay. I don't want to give depression victory over your house. You said something in particular I want to hone in on. Everything was great until y'all had a kid.
That tells me this started episodically. It started with a trigger. Is there something from his past that just flipped the switch for the black cloud? I think it's very likely he was adopted. And I think he's never vocalized it as something that he's struggled with.
But in recent years, since we've been married, he's been in contact with his birth family and gotten to know them a little bit and formed some relationships there. And so that's one thing that I have always kind of wondered or thought if that was playing a part with us having a kid and really starting our family, if that was bringing out any triggering things. He was adopted at birth. Okay.
And he's had challenges, you know, like normal in life. But that's one in particular that I've wondered if there's some unresolved, you know. So here's what I want you to do. I want you to not refer to him as a guy with depression. Okay. I don't want you to refer to him as a guy who may have been struggling with an inner child wound from an adoption. Both of those things are probably true. But I want you to respond to him as his best friend and his wife and also a co-parent who needs some help.
And he's going to learn to say out loud, I can't today. But when you give up on him, or you stop saying, hey, we agreed upon this and this today. Are you able to be a part of it today? And if he says, no, it's not about you. It's about him. But I don't want his purpose to leave his home. You see what I'm saying? And I know it's a tricky balance between purpose and shame and all that kind of stuff. He needs to work that out with his counselor and y'all will work that out together.
But it goes back to that old, you know, the high school football coach when he says, when I stop getting on to you, that's when you'll know I quit caring. And so I don't want you to get on to him. But the moment he realizes, oh, I don't play a role in my house anymore. Oh, man, that depression cloud gets darker and blacker and blacker. So he's got to know that he plays an important role in your life, right? And at the same time, learn to carry that weight. Okay, here's the last thing. We've talked about him this whole call. Real quick, I want to talk about you. Okay.
You, in this new picture that is your life, you have to make some sort of peace that this is the way this is right now. And the more you drag what used to be into the present, the more you're choosing a different layer of misery in the present. You're not choosing to be miserable on purpose right now. Life threw you a curveball. Your husband's sick, okay? By the way, I talk about OCD. I talk about anxiety. Depression is scary. Depression's real.
Well, those other ones are real too, but I put it in a different category. It's scary and it's real. And it's real for your life right now. And that means you're going to have to grieve what was. And you're going to have to practice living into what is right now. And what does that mean? You have to choose right now in this new season to do the things that you need to do with the limited space and capacity you got to be well and whole.
If you turn into his mom, you're going to bury yourself in the process. Yes, that's what I've been learning. When's the last time you went out with your friends? It could be a while. I should make that happen. On the regular. When's the last time you went to the gym or went exercise by yourself? Went for a walk by yourself? No kids, no nothing? Oh, no. I have no idea. Okay. When's the last time you reached out for help? Sometimes I feel like...
Yeah. When's the last time you called someone for you? I don't know. I have a great support system in my family, but I need to use it more. Yeah, you don't use them. When's the last time you dropped the kids off for somebody and said, I'm going to go swimming. I'm going to go get a massage. Some things cost money and some don't. I'm going to go for a hike in the woods. Because here's what happens. You stop doing things because he feels guilty that he can't do them with you, and then you stop doing them
And then you get buried and then you resent him. Fair? Yep. Definitely fair. And sometimes I resent the fact that I feel like I can never have a bad day because I feel like he takes up all the bad days. Why aren't you allowed to have a bad day? Is that true?
No, it's not true. It's how I feel. Okay. So the same as the last caller, I want you to start to write down these things that you feel. I want you to get them out of your body and write them down. And then I want you to be honest about asking yourself, is this true? Okay. And my guess is you're telling yourself some stories. This is going to be forever. He's always going to be like this. Is that true? Probably not. Are there tiny wins? Have you seen tiny wins over the last year? Maybe not. Maybe not. But if you go back and look at a trend line,
Maybe he's staying in bed two days out of the week in the mornings instead of five days. Or maybe he'll go for a walk with you in the afternoons. Or maybe he'll fill in the blank, fill in the blank, fill in the blank. And so let's celebrate those teeny tiny wins. I don't want you to be afraid to say, hey, honey, I need you to go for a walk with me. Someone's coming over to watch the kids. You and I are just going to go walk in the sunshine for 20 minutes. And I know the doctors told you guys this, but exercise, fish oil, I mean, some things that...
I've shown some pretty remarkable efficacy depending on the type of depression he's got, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. Okay. But I need you to commit to giving your kids a mom who did her best to find joy in a pretty messy situation. Yeah. Okay. You're allowed to have fun and you're allowed to laugh and you're allowed to go be with your friends. And if he, y'all have a great date night one Saturday night and the next Saturday y'all have a date planned and he's like, I'm not going. I want you to have a friend or two on call that you can call.
Say, cool, I understand. I'm going to go out tonight and I'm going to go grab some coffee with the friends or go to a movie or go do a thing. And I want you to begin to ask yourself, what are those things I need to do? And I want you to begin to ask yourself once or twice a week, who am I going to call to come pick up the kids so that I can go X, Y, and Z, fill in the blank. And I want you to be honest. Am I allowed to have a bad day? Yes, you are. You're allowed to be frustrated. You're allowed to cry. Yes, all those things are true. But I think all this begins, I want you to reach out to a marriage counselor that's
Probably tough to find one that specializes in that particular thing, but I want you to talk to somebody about seeing you and your husband, and if his counselor will do it, great, about how to be married to somebody who's struggling with depression right now. And what are some things y'all can do together to catch this thing way upstream before it goes off a cliff? And make sure y'all have a suicide plan. And make sure y'all have a plan for what joy looks like, what self-care looks like, all those things together.
He's lucky to have you. I don't believe this is forever. I really don't. I don't. But in the meantime, I want you to focus on the only thing you can control, which is you and showing up for your kids, showing up for your husband and showing up for you. Thanks for the call, Lisa. We'll be right back.
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All right, we're back. Let's go out to Springfield, Illinois, home of the Simpsons and Laura. What's up, Laura? Hello, Dr. John. How are you? Partying. What are you up to? I'm just taking a break from the last day of tax season and talking to you. Well, are you an accountant or are you? Yes. Oh, man. I'm surprised you can spare the 10 minutes. That's awesome. I feel honored. Yeah, I'm honored. Thanks. So what's up? How can I help?
Okay, so basically when my husband and I first started dating, I was not honest with him about my sexual history. And now we've been married almost two years. We have a six-month-old. And I have still never told him the truth. And it's really starting to weigh on me. And I think it's affecting me emotionally. And I just don't know how to tell him. Yeah, secrets will kill, man. So...
Less important about your past, what has it been about your relationship with him that it's felt unsafe to say it out loud? I guess it really started with his initial reaction back when we were dating. He asked me, it was maybe our third date, he asked me,
If I guess about my sexual history and I was like, well, yeah, I have without thinking. And, um, he just to look on his face looked like he'd been hit with a bat or
And cause you're somehow less than or not worthy of. Um, it was less that and more, he was like, he was raised in a, yes, he was raised in a very, um, we're both believers in Christ now, but he was raised in a very Christian home. And it was like, he was not expecting that from me at all. He didn't expect that. Cause, Oh, cause only those people do that. And he doesn't go on dates with those people. And here he was falling for somebody day three.
And you ruined it for him, Laura. And little did he know, right? That's how it felt, really. And I knew he would not have continued the relationship if I had told him the truth at that moment. And so I panicked. Oh, wow. Like one person, one time, it wasn't, you know, and I was like, I felt so bad about it, which... You didn't. And that's, I mean, now I, yeah.
I did not. Yeah. And I'm not, I'm not, I'm not getting onto you for that. Like it's, so that's a really strange moment to find yourself to have a baby girl. Most amazing thing in your life. Is your marriage good other than this big secret that's underneath it? Yeah. It's honestly wonderful. I mean, he's wonderful. Okay. And so you have this whole life that, but not for this lie that has grown underneath the foundation of our marriage.
I don't have any of this stuff. I don't have my baby girl. I don't have him. I don't have this life I have. Yeah. Now listen, I don't normally say this, Laura, but you need to not tell anybody this happened and just bury this thing. I'm just kidding. You can't do that. Oh, gosh. It does sound like, whoa, man. All right, so play it out for me. Play it out for me. You sit down and tell them, I can't keep this from you anymore. There's some stuff from my past you don't know, and lay it out exactly as you laid it out for me.
I remember you asked me this one question and I answered it and the look on your face was so shocking that I immediately said one person, one time I didn't even, I hated it. I wish I hadn't have. And actually it was more. What does he do? So I've been struggling with, I know he, obviously he's not going to leave me. Um, but I think it'll do him some, I think it'll really do a number on him. And I, um,
Will the sex part do a number on him or will the fact that his wife's lying to him about something that he valued significantly do something? I mean, it'll, it'll be the lie. Um, but also I think, I mean, he's like, he's very like possessive. He's like a man, you know, and that's stupid. I am too. And I think he'll see. And by the way, even, even if let's get, let's, let's get to like the nonsensical, uh,
You're mine. Like that Beefcake McGee 2000 red pill nonsense. Even then, he wasn't... You weren't, quote unquote, you're not, by the way, but you weren't his before. Yeah. Right? Right. And so even if that nonsense holds true, it wasn't... You get what I'm saying? Yeah. But people are going to react how they're going to react. Here's the deal. The bottom line is you have to have this conversation sooner rather than later. And...
I think any sort of hedging or any sort of trying to spin something, he'll feel it and you will too. And so I think honesty as you laid it out to me is probably the cleanest and clearest way. Yeah. You asked me a question, I was a different person and I immediately threw something out and it's haunted me ever since. Yeah. And I love you and I love our life together.
Have you ever lied to him since? No. About anything? I don't think so. You would know, Laura. Nothing big. Maybe like I, I don't know. I can't think of anything now. I don't think I ever have. Okay. I think that's going to be the, that's going to be the challenge is him feeling like I can't trust you or this was something that we, that really mattered to me and you knew that and we've gone on this long. Right.
Um, and so I think he gets permission. He gets some time to be sad that his most important person in his life didn't tell him the truth. How long, how long has this lie gone on? Um, we dated for four years, married for two, so six years. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. All right. I have to ask how egregious is the other side? Um, it's just, I mean, to me now it's very egregious. Um,
You mean my past? Is that what you're talking about? Yeah. Seven people from the age of 15 to 17. Okay. Yeah. You got to sit down and just have that conversation with them. Yeah. You're 15. Yeah. You called me and said, hey, I stole a car and broke a window. And now I'm a homeowner and a car owner. And I realized that hurt somebody's property. And I wish I could go back and do that over. I would say, hey, you can't go back and do that over. And you're 15. Yeah.
You're 15. And if you were the daughter of my buddy, a close friend of mine, and he came to me and said, hey, my daughter's 17. I just found out she's been with seven other people. And she is clearly, it's seven people in two years. And she is scrambling for something. I don't know what it is. The first thing I would do is sit down with a 17-year-old and say, hey, my name is John. You're okay here. Mm-hmm.
I think the challenge moving forward is you hate 15 to 17-year-old you, and you can't. You've got to make peace. Yeah. Okay? Yeah. 15 to 17-year-old too found herself in a mess. We're fair? Yeah. And I'm not just saying it's because of a number, right? No. Yeah, you're very right. It was... Yeah. But that's a compressed time period to go from zero to 60. Yeah. Did something happen when you were 15? Um...
I think there's a lot there, but... If you don't want to talk about it, that's okay. No, I mean, my family left a very, very, very, very religious church. I've never actually fully unpacked this.
Um, I just, I got a really, really bad boyfriend because he gave me attention and I wanted it so badly. Um, and it's, it started there, I guess. I don't know why I wanted attention so badly. I still haven't. Hey, Laura, you're 15. I know. All 15 year olds want attention real, real bad. Yeah. Yeah. You know what I mean? Before you talk to your husband, which needs to happen, like ASAP.
Yeah, I know. I want you to write 15-year-old Laura a letter and tell her you love her. I don't want you to tell that girl, that little 15-year-old girl, if you had been her mom, things would have been different. Okay? Okay. Because I want you to walk into this conversation with your husband with your head held high. Not that you're proud of your 15-year-old self, yada, whatever. Your 15-year-old self sounds like she was trying to survive. But I don't want you to go in a divided self.
There's part of me I hate. You've probably heard me say this. There's a reason we don't let 15-year-olds buy cigarettes and beer because they're 15. They don't make good choices. That's why they need adults in their life. Okay? Yeah. So I want you to forgive 15-year-old you, 17-year-old you. And at some point, you're going to have to forgive, what, 24-year-old you now? Mm-hmm. And you're going to have to have that hard conversation. And I think it's fair to tell your husband, I'm blowing up your world. And I know that.
And it's going to be hard for you to trust me moving forward. I want you to know I've never lied to you. And also that doesn't mean a whole lot right now. And I understand that. Yeah. But I'm your wife. I love you. I'm the mother of your baby. And we're going to rebuild something completely new. Because by the way, the marriage, as you know it, it's going to be over. There's a period at the end. Okay. And then we're going to rebuild something amazing. Because the foundation of the old relationship is based on something that you didn't tell him. Yeah. Okay.
And he has never been married to Laura who's got complete peace. And he's never been married to Laura that when y'all are sexually active together isn't haunted by if he only knew. Fair? Yeah. That would be a different person. Are you safe having this conversation with him? Yes. Yeah. Okay. I think it's just a matter of being able to face what's on the other side for me. Okay. Yeah.
If he wants to call in, I'd be happy to talk to him. If y'all want to call in together, what do we do now? If you want to call back, I'd love to hear how the conversation goes. One last thing I'll recommend is I want you to write this stuff down and tell him I'm going to read it to him. Yeah. Tell him that you're going to read it to him. Do you have a friend that knows the full story or is this the first time you're saying it all out loud? It would be the first time I am saying it out loud. How does it feel to say it all out loud?
Well, I'm shaking. So are you shaking from as it's leaving your body? Are you shaking like, oh God, this is going to be a way bigger deal than I thought. I think a little bit of both. That's fair. That's fair. Do you have a friend you can talk to? I do. Yeah. I have a few that you trust. Yes. Okay. Maybe, um, no, I was going to say maybe get them and run through it first, but I wouldn't do that. Um, I think it's, I think the honorable thing is to sit down with your husband and
And then probably right after that, have a conversation with your two girlfriends. A few friends that you can say, hey, I just talked to my husband about this. Things are going to be shaky for a while as we relearn to reestablish trust with each other. And I also don't want you to discount this. You met, how old were you when y'all met? 18, 17 going on 18. All right. So when you were 17...
You popped off with a lie. No 17-year-old's ever done that, Laura, by the way. I also want to hold loosely the fact that something in your body knew he's not a safe person to tell the truth to. Is that fair? Here's how I know that. You told me. He would have left. He never would have called me back. Yeah. He's possessive. He likes to say that he owns me.
You never said that, to be fair. That's okay. That's how your body feels, right? Yeah. So maybe I'm reaching for straws here, but unless you're just truly mean and pathological, there's something that hasn't felt safe about saying it. Yeah. And maybe you're like, no, I'm just mean. I've just kept it in. Oh, I think I'm very ashamed. That's fair. Yeah. And there should be some guilt here. Yeah. Guilt is right. When are you going to have the conversation?
Next Monday. Why so long? Tonight. Is that a better answer? You tell me. When can somebody come get your daughter and just watch her for a few hours? Tonight. If you're ready, I think shooting him a text message or a voice message is just letting them know, hey, we need to have a hard conversation and it's going to be pretty tough.
and I love you more than life itself. And I also know that what I'm going to tell you is going to hurt you. I've never cheated on you. I don't want you to think anything like that, but we do need to talk tonight. So I've got somebody coming to get our baby at X time, and I'm calling in some food for us. And I need you to be fully present with me. And I also know it's going to hurt. So I'm going to put everything out on the table. I want you to spend the rest of
Today or the next week, it's up to you whenever you do this. I don't want to force you today. It may not be the best day. You may not be ready, but it needs to happen soon. And spend some time writing down everything. And then call me back. Let me know how it went. And we'll be thinking about you. But let's let 15-year-old Laura, let's let her know she's loved. She's off the hook. She's safe now. Now we're going to do the right thing going forward. Secrets will kill us. We'll be right back.
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All right, we are back. So let's just, we're just going to have to address this. So I guess it was a month ago or so, a show came out where I said the following. Travel sports are ruining American families. Something to that effect. And then that clip got cut and put up on my social media.
And it has been sent around by the likes of Mark Cuban, professional athletes, like coaches. It has become this... It spun up and way out from underneath the conversation I was having with this person on my show. And...
And by the way, those sending it out are in support of it, are saying, yes, what are we doing? I think the one that somebody sent me was with Chipper Jones, the Hall of Fame baseball player from the Atlanta Braves saying, no, dude, like baseball gave us our life. And in the summertime, we're not traveling. We're hanging out as a family. We're doing family things and et cetera, et cetera. And so even this morning, I was back and forth with –
Somebody everybody would know. Anyway, in all positive things saying, my God, dude, yes. And I have not ever received the angry people writing me.
telling me how uninformed I am, what an idiot I am. One person, one guy was telling Ben, one guy wrote in and said, we've been doing travel golf for years and it's the greatest thing that ever happened to our family and just went on and on. And I wanted to reply, yeah, but golf's not a sport, but I didn't do that. I didn't do that. That's for you golfers out there. Kind of just did though. But I mean, it is golf, but here's the deal. Here's the deal. I stand by what I said. I think I'm right.
Is traveling as a family, doing travel sports, is that good for some families? Of course it is. Of course it is. But what if? And let me say this. Does sports lead to great life lessons? 100%. Does sports lead to transforming a young person's ability to work on a team, to see themselves in a bigger context, to work harder than they ever thought possible for a common purpose and goal? Yes.
But here's why I call bull crap on the whole thing. If you wanted to teach those lessons to your kids, you could, for no money, get a group of 10 young people, 15 young people, and go down and serve the homeless people every Saturday for the entire fall. Feed at a soup kitchen every Wednesday night and Thursday night and Friday night and Saturday morning and Saturday afternoon and Sunday morning
with a group of 15 year olds led by one really powerful adult and a couple of other dads. You could go Monday night, Tuesday night, Wednesday night, Thursday night, Saturday night, Saturday morning, which is what the baseball schedule is or the soccer schedule is, and take care of the animals at a local animal shelter. You could all be out mowing lawns and donate 100% of that money towards taking care of kids that don't have school supplies. You could do all, oh, kids wouldn't want to do that. Kids are...
sacrificing their childhoods because it brings them closer together to other adults. Kids will follow connection almost every time, not every time, but they will chase and follow connection all the time, all the time. And so I've said it once, I'll say it again. My kids play sports. I played sports. I went all the way into college playing sports. I love it. I still work out every day of my life. It's a valuable thing. And mortgaging your future,
all of the injuries. It's not normal for a 16-year-old to have to replace their ACL once or twice. It's not. It's not normal for an 18-year-old to have all these shoulder surgeries and neck surgeries and see chiropractors. It's not. And the sports medicine folks are making money. The doctors are making money. The coaches are making money. Everybody's getting paid on this deal. And we're sacrificing our kids at the altar of this performance thing.
If we want to transform the character and abilities and accomplishments of our kids, we can find other ways to do it. Don't cost any money and benefit our direct local communities. We can. We absolutely can. We absolutely can. And I love high school sports. I love middle school sports. And I always will. And I know that, unfortunately, high school coaches, of which I've been, I've been a high school coach at a giant 5A high school in Texas. I understand. We now fire high school coaches if they don't win. Forget about how they're
raising adults. Let me say this. One of the greatest things I've ever seen was the basketball coach, the head coach I worked for, and I won't out him here. He's an amazing guy. I'll never forget on the first day of practice, he called all the players in. He's a new coach. And then he hired me, new coach. And he said, none of you in this room will ever play for money. 99.999% chance, because if you were good enough, I'd already know. And that means that our focus is going to be
becoming the best we can, getting grades, and thinking about life as a citizen. And he handed all the young people a sheet. And he had gone around to local businesses and said, becoming an expert at front-end alignments, here's what it pays. This is a good job. And he went on and on and on and talked about jobs, talked about school, talked about classroom, talked about character. And he said, I want to win a whole bunch of games too. But he did it in the right order.
Because it was about raising young people up. It was about teaching kids. It was about pushing kids and honoring kids. It wasn't about sacrificing kids. And that world's over now. It's a different world we have now. To you coaches out there who are still about raising up young people, good for you, man. That is amazing and honorable. I know a few of you personally. Those of you who are just about your career move, I want you to consider chewing up something else other than our kids.
Parents out there, yes, get your kids involved. And also ask, what do we want our house to feel like? What do we want our finances to look like? What do we want when our kids, when we're dead and gone and our kids are at a funeral, what do we want to say? Man, dad gave it all. Dad yelled and screamed and we won that time. Or dad put the brakes on so that we could all be united as a family. All of us. Love you guys.