I Lash Out at Those I Love the Most
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Coming up on the Dr. John Deloney Show. I was playing baseball my entire life, and then just about a year ago, I decided to quit. And I feel like since then, I kind of feel myself drifting away from who I used to be. I feel like I've let a lot of the people around me down, where I was supposed to be playing the MLB or whatever. And none of that really panned out.

Whoo! What's up? This is John with the Dr. John Deloney Show. We're talking about your emotional health and your relationships and your mental health and whatever else you got going on in your life. Whether you're trying to be a better dad or a better husband or a better mom or sister or brother. Whatever you got going on in your life. Whether you're worried about your kids or what you're going to do this summer or the schools. Whatever you got going on. Here's my promise. I'm going to sit with you and we're going to figure out

what to do next if you want to be on the show give me a buzz at 1-844-693-3291 it's 1-844-693-3291 or go to johndeloney.com slash ask a s k let's go out to monterey california and talk to the mighty justin hey justin what's up man hey how's it going we're doing all right brother how are you pretty good excellent what's up man

Well, I'm calling because I've found myself in about the past year or so really struggling with this short temper. I find myself getting more and more angry even when there's nothing really going on. And it's mainly at the people that I care about the most. And I've realized, especially since I've got older, that...

It just is seeming to be more prominent and I don't really understand how to control it or combat it. The things you get angry about, tell me about them. It's hard to explain. It's more like little things that people say or that set me off or... So dude, what's this? I mean, the way that you just said like a, gave me a perfect response. So thank you.

Where is this pressure coming from? How old are you? Hold on. How old are you? 22. Yeah. Where is this pressure coming from, man? I don't know. I mean, I felt like ever since I was a kid, I had like a little bit of a short temper, but I didn't really notice it until like... So growing up, I played baseball my whole life, right? Like I played division one baseball. I...

I was playing baseball my entire life. And then just about a year ago, I decided to quit and not play anymore because nothing was really panning out the way I wanted it to. And I feel like since then, I've kind of been more like sitting around, not doing anything, not like really working out anymore. I kind of feel myself just drifting away from like who I used to be. And it almost makes you feel guilty to the point where like,

I feel like I've let a lot of the people around me down where I was supposed to be like this guy and, you know, playing the MLB or whatever. And none of that really panned out. But I, I also feel like I, I feel that a lot in like my relationships too. Like just this short temper. Yeah, dude. Oh man. Um,

Right as I was leaving the university system, there was an increasing call to sit with athletes as they transitioned from being four years old and finding love and connection with their parents through their athletic performance. And that went all the way through the scholarship years and moms and dads saying things like, if you don't do this, you're not gonna go to college or you're really going to help us out, put us in a bind if you don't get that scholarship.

And so these kids have been carrying their families, right? And then they graduate and they tell you, they tell you only 1% of you guys are going to go to the majors. But all of us, cause I was an athlete too. We looked to our right and our left and we're like, yeah, it sucks to be those guys, right? I'm going to be doing this forever. And then you just, dude, you just said it so eloquently. I hope you heard what you said. You've lost everything.

Yeah. You lost how you connect with your loved ones? Are your mom and dad still around? No, we moved a lot when I was young and they don't live in Monterey. They lived in Colorado for the past three or four years. No, no, no, but are they still around? Are they still in your life? You can pick up a phone and call them? Okay. Yeah. You lost like your whole identity from high school into college and probably in middle school was that guy that was great at baseball. And if you're a D1 player, you're probably good at other sports in high school too, right? So you always were that guy.

And then you mentioned you lost your gang, you lost your team. Yeah. You lost a coach that has told you for the last four years when to go to the bathroom, when to stand up, what to eat, when to work out, when to get your grades done, all those things. And then you, have you graduated? Yeah, I graduated. So what are you doing now for work? Right now, I actually just finished EMT. I'm in the process of becoming a firefighter. Okay. So you're about to join a new gang, which is awesome. That's fantastic. So good for you. But you used a word that I want you to hang on to.

And the word was drift. Whenever you transition for something, and this is military veterans, this is police officers, this is first responders, this is teachers, this is anybody who had a life that was in a gang. You can't just stop doing that and just kind of drift, as you said, into something else. Your body will scream at you. And for you...

screaming looks like rage, looks like anger, trapped. And those voices of your dad and your coaches and your teammates, the negative voices, man, they fill up your head real fast, don't they? Yeah, it's actually scary. Yes. And I dealt with that when I was younger, like with the negative stuff and holding on to it. But now it's like somebody says I'm not good enough for her. You didn't deal with it. You performed it away. Yeah.

Yeah. And now you have no way to perform it away. And now it's raw again. Yeah. Is that fair? Yeah, that's, yeah, it's pretty true. Okay. I felt like I had an outlet with baseball when, with the negative stuff and, and all that. And now I, now if something, if somebody says something or if I, a little something like, Oh, you know, you're, I don't know. Like it just sticks with me now. I know exactly what you're talking about. Here's why, because you're, you're an exposed nerve. Your body knows that you got no gang.

You have no identity. You, at the nervous system level, your body doesn't believe you can connect with your parents. You even feel like you let them down. Yeah. And you probably had pictures of the houses you were going to buy them and the cars you were going to get them, right? Yeah, I always talk about that. Exactly. And somehow you think you failed them. As you're entering into a profession of dedication, dedicating your life to serving people in their worst moments, you're like, oh, I'm a loser.

You know what I mean? Yeah. It's madness when you hear me hear back, right? Uh-huh. Um, have you sat down and talked with your old man? What did he say? Or what'd your mom say? My dad, um, he, I, I feel like I've tried to talk to him about it. Um, I get a lot more of my like personality from my mom for sure. She's much more emotional when my dad's more like avoidant. And I feel like that also plays into my personality. Um,

Um, I think it's just harder. Like my dad, his dad was like a, a really bad alcoholic passed away when he was, I don't know how old, but I never met him. That's, I never met his dad and he was abusive. And so my, when I growing up, my dad was very like, not, I wouldn't say non-emotional, just not very like the type of person to like sit down and be like, Hey, what's going on in your life? Or,

The safest thing your dad did for you was he didn't deal with the emotions. He just shut them off. Like, I'm not going to let my bad emotions hurt my kid like I was hurt. And so I'll applaud him for that. I wish he'd gone one step further, but I applaud him for, I'm just going to shut it down. Yeah. Right. And you kind of have done the same thing. You just did it with baseball.

Yeah. Right. And at some point, someone in your family line is going to have to stand and stare down this rage that is wired into you and at the same time is lived out over and over and over again. I want to give you a homework assignment, but you get to decide whether you do it or not. Obviously, I can't make you. Yeah. What would it be like if you called your dad or visited? When's the next time you're going to see him in person? Probably not until...

uh, Thanksgiving or Christmas. They just came out and visited like about a week ago. Okay. And was that a tough visit? Is that why you're calling? Yeah. I just, I just feel myself more angry when they're here. Okay. That makes sense. Like a hundred percent. No, it's not. It's honest. No, I know. I just, I don't get it. Like I am. It's almost like, and I live with my aunt and uncle here in Monterey. Okay. Um,

And like, even now I feel myself like getting more angry at them or more angry at my cousin or whatever. Cause the world, the world, these relationships, bro, are not a baseball game. You can win. Yeah. You don't have that skillset. So if you just like to use baseball terms, you just keep getting put in the game as a DH and the pitchers throwing 104 miles an hour and you've never taken batting practice.

You can't get mad at yourself because you've never had to do this thing. What would it be like if you called your dad and said, Dad, I've been doing some reflecting. I've realized that the main way I've connected with you over the last 20 years of my life was through baseball. And I want to be intentional about having a relationship with my dad. Would you be willing to call us once a week and put on the calendar? What would he do if you did that?

He'd probably be totally open to it. He, you know, he's very like, he's very understanding and don't get me wrong. He was, he was a really great dad. Oh, I know. I know. I know. He did it best he could. Yeah. Yeah. But I don't, I think it's more like, I don't know how he would react in the sense, like he's not like super emotional. Yeah. It's not about emotion. It's not about emotion. It's about your body knows this is, this was the way we connected and it's gone.

Yeah. And you have to be intentional about, I've got, I've got to get an exercise program and a gang. I've got to get some guys that I hang out with. I've got to get, you're going to have a fire team there, but there's gonna be very professional. It's gonna be different than college sports. Right. Yeah. But you're going to have to do the hard work where you are in Monterey of dealing with these things. Like I've got to go get, I got to go replace these things. Like I, we tell the veterans, you got to go get a new mission. I don't know what that is, but you got to go get that. You have to go get a new team.

Yeah. And it can't be baseball teams. It's just going to look differently. What do you think at the end of the day, anger is, it's, it points us in the direction of the way things should be things that we care about. If I ask you point blank, what are you, what are you so mad about? What would you tell me? I don't know. I think you do. I think it, I think it's just, I'm angry that I feel this way. Like I'm angry that. What do you feel? Yeah.

I feel like I can't be normal. Like I have like this overwhelming anxiety and I'm angry about having anxiety. And then I'm angry that like, even like when my relationships are going good or even when they're like, even when they're going good, I feel like I'm self self-sabotaging our relationship. I'm getting angry. I'm getting jealous. And I feel like that's been going on for a while now.

What is your body telling you with that anger? What isn't how it should be? My life, I guess. What does that mean? Keep going. This is not what I planned it out to be. Okay. I'm stuck here in Monterey. Okay. In a small town living with, you know, my parents. I mean, not my parents, my aunt and uncle. And all my friends are graduating college and college.

And I just feel like I'm stuck. There you go. Yeah, I'm doing this fire thing and I really enjoy it. No, you don't. No, you don't. I don't even think it was my idea. Justin, you don't want to be doing this. Yeah. What do you want to do, man? I don't want to be stuck. I know you are.

And if you go back and listen to the beginning of the call, the word I was using was pressure, but it feels, you're using the word stuck and I love that word. It feels like somebody's squashing you. And if one person says one thing, it's just, your cup is like over, it's got that little bubble of liquid. It's all the way filled all the way to the tip top and one little eyedropper sends it over the edge. Yeah. And it could be one girl who doesn't text you back in five seconds. And it could be one cousin who's like,

Why didn't you hit that curve ball? And it's just like, boom. Yeah. Why do you think you're stuck? Like why, why haven't you packed up and moved back to Colorado to get a job? I, I don't know. Why haven't you packed up and moved to Texas or Nashville just to start an adventure? That's actually funny that you said that I've actually thought about doing that. Why haven't you? Texas specifically. I don't know why. Are you just worried about keeping too much of your paycheck because neither of those states have state income taxes or

I'm just kidding. That was a little tax dig, but like, but you're 22, man. Why? I don't know. I met a really good group of guys here. Um, like when I, like about a year ago when I was in a really rough, like a really rough spot, um, or you in a rough spot about, I just got out of this really toxic and terrible relationship. Um, I was living in Santa Barbara playing junior college baseball, just grinding, like

trying to get back to the Division I scene. And I got into this relationship, and I fell in love and kind of stopped caring about baseball, had the worst season of my entire life. I was drinking a lot. And then this girl, we broke up, and I came back to Monterey and tried to play a season of fall baseball. And then I was like, you know what?

I'm done. Like, I'm done with this. And I just quit and sulked for like six months. And then I met these two really good guys that are a little bit older than me. They're like 26, 27. Their names are Derek and Alex. And they kind of just like brought me in. And now I work with them and I see them all the time. We have game nights every Friday. But I just, that is great. I just still feel like I...

Even with them, even with these guys that I care about so much, even if they were to say something, I'm getting angry about it or my parents. So I don't know. We could talk for a couple hours. I would love to just hang out because you've got a good story. I know you're only telling me a piece of it. Here's the deal. Those guys have been a great blessing to you, but that's not your gang, and you know that.

And those guys are older than you and they're kind of doing a good, they did a great gift. It gave you a good, great gift to lift you kind of out of this depressive, this thymic pit you were sitting in and good. That's good for them. And I'm proud of you for getting up. Yeah. That doesn't mean that's where you have to stay for the rest of your life. My challenge to you is I'm going to send you some tools, but my challenge to you is imagine a life after baseball.

Yeah. Because I want you to consider this. You've got 78 years left to go. Yeah. If you make a hundred, you've probably dipped enough because you're a college baseball player. So that's probably 68 years left to go. Right. Yeah. So you got a long, long road ahead of you.

And you're not going to like this, but it's the same as if you got in a batting slump and you had to go watch film of when you were doing really well and you had to start doing the things you were doing when you were doing really well. You're going to have to choose to shake up the snow globe. Yeah. And it sounds like you have a family history of anger as a default setting. And your granddad drank it away. Your dad just turned the whole switch off and you've performed it away.

Somebody's going to deal with it or somebody's going to end up in jail. Right? Yeah. So at some point you need to go sit with a counselor. Yeah. Are you kidding me, bro? I'm not going to a therapist. I'm telling you right now. You have to, it's generational. It's part of you. Yeah. And you have to decide I'm going to go do something bananas. I'm going to go move. And by the way, go move to Texas for two years. If it doesn't work out, go back. It'd be 24. Yeah.

I got my first job at a university when I was 24. You're fine. You haven't even started yet. Yeah. And by the way, the job I have right now that pays my bills didn't exist until I was in my 30s. There was no such thing as YouTube. Yeah. There was no such thing as podcasts. Who knows what's going to happen when you're 30? You see what I'm saying? Yeah. I want you to relax, man. I know. And... I feel like I'm afraid if I don't deal with it now.

Because I've watched the show a bunch and I've listened to a lot of these dudes talk and I'm like, man, if I don't deal with this now, I'm going to be, you know, this guy in 30 years, 20 years. You're very, very wise. But the misnomer, the misalignment that we have in our culture is that you can think your way out of this. You can't. You got to go act radically. You have to go be weird. Hey, mom, guess what? I just took a job at a grocery store in Dallas, Texas.

And it's going to be 8,000 degrees this summer. Bye. Hey, mom, I just took a job managing a punk rock club in Houston, Texas. What? It's going to be fun. We're going to figure it out. Or I went and got my teaching certificate, and I'm going to be a Super 5A high school baseball teacher, and I'm going to work my way up. I'm a baseball coach. I'm going to work my way up. Whatever you want to do. Here's the deal. You have to decide. I'm going to shake the system up.

But I promise you, doing a job you don't want to do, living with your aunt and uncle and one of your cousins in a side bedroom in a town you don't want to be in, I'm angry for you right now. That's my promise. You got to go talk to somebody about the deep stuff and you got to start making some action-oriented moves right now. So here's your homework assignment. Number one, I want you to reach out and call your dad and ask him that question. And I want you to ask your mom too, both of them.

We haven't connected in any other way except baseball. Oh, yes, we have, Justin. Mom, we haven't. Dad, we haven't. So I want us to be one of those families that we have a great conversation, great relationship, and we talk on the phone a lot. Can we make a call once a week? The second thing is I want you to write a letter to 21-year-old Justin and tell him you're proud of him for quitting baseball and moving on because you're pissed at that guy.

You're pissed at that guy for falling in love. You're mad at that guy for quitting baseball. You're mad at that guy for ruining your dream you had for how much money you were getting. You're mad at him for everything. Stop. Be graceful with 21-year-old Justin. And then I want you to write a third letter to 30-year-old Justin. I want you to tell him about where you're living and why you decided to move there and what an amazing thing you did, even though you were scared to death to do it, so that 30-year-old Justin could have a pretty amazing ride.

Okay. And if you do those things, I'm going to send you my buddy, Ken Coleman's get clear assessment and his brand new book. It's, it's just a, what are the things you were put on earth to do? It's a career assessment. That's pretty amazing. It's finding the work that you love and then figuring out how to go do it. I'm also going to send you his book called the proximity principle, which teaches you how to get in, get around people who are doing the stuff that you want to be doing. It's fantastic, man.

And I don't know if you're a reader, but I'm going to send you one more book. It's called Own Your Past, Change Your Future. It's my first book. And it's about walking through these stories, these anger stories. And you're going to hear old coaches' voices. You're going to hear your parents' voices. You're going to hear old teammates' voices. You're going to hear your voice. But you're going to pull the thread on that thing, and it will give you some things to talk about with a counselor. At the end of the day, as the great Rage Against the Machine said, anger is a gift. It points us in a direction.

It's when we take that out on other people and we consciously create lives that we don't want to be living, but we do it anyway. We just keep showing up and doing it. And those words you used, I feel like I'm trapped. I feel like I'm stuck. I feel like there's too much pressure, right? And the way out of that is just to move. And for you, it might mean moving down the street. It might mean moving across the country. It might mean just shaking the snow globe. All of us can do it. All of us.

Go make it happen, my brother. Thank you so much for the call. Thanks for being honest and for looking ahead to 50-year-old Justin and saying, I see where this is going to lead if I don't make some changes right now. We need more men like you, Justin. Good on you. Go make it happen. We'll be right back.

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All right, we are back and we have a married couple coming in hot. Let's go out to Lubbock, Texas. Old Tone. Jeannie, is that you? Yes, I'm here. All right. All right, so I've got you on. I'm going to bring on Kyle, your husband. Hey, Kyle, what's up, man? Hey, not much. How are you today? All right. Y'all doing okay? We're good. Kyle, you'd rather be setting your butt crack on fire than be on this call, wouldn't you?

Yeah. So at any moment, either one of y'all can hang up, okay? Okay. Okay. And before we get going, you'll have to promise that no matter where we go, what we say, y'all are going to treat each other with kindness on the back end of this call at home, and you're not going to read any YouTube comments. Fair? Fair. Kyle?

Yeah, yeah, fair. All right, good. I still know people in Lubbock. I'll send them after you. I actually won't. All right, so, Jeannie, you go first. What's up?

Okay, I'll give you a little background and my original question, but then I have a little update. When I first wrote in, I was concerned about Kyle's drinking. It had really ramped up probably since about summer of last year, and it had started to affect our children, especially our oldest. We have three boys, and the oldest is 12.

And it had gotten to the point where my counselor and our trusted friends had told me I needed to start thinking about separation or, you know, even divorce. So when I originally wrote in, my question was how to navigate making that decision. But the update is the day before Mother's Day, we had another incident, a

He came home in bad shape, and I had to pack up the kids and went and stayed with my parents for the evening. But the next day, we had a conversation, and I told him I needed him to get sober. And as far as I know, he hasn't had anything to drink since then. So that's been a month, and I'm really proud of him for that. So that's the good update. My concern is...

I guess my question is now, what do we do from here, or how can I support him? I'm concerned because this was a problem for so long, and now we just don't talk about it at all. He won't talk to me about it. When I ask him how he's doing, he just says, I'm fine. It's fine. Everything's good. He's just determined to plow through this on his own. But our lives are very stressful on several fronts, and I'm concerned.

that he hasn't really dealt with the reasons why he was drinking in the first place. Okay. Kyle, can you hear her as a woman who loves you? Oh, yes. Yeah. Yeah, I can. All right. So tell me what's going on in your world, man. Oh, well...

Not just a whole lot of good right now, but except for my family, that's about all I got. Well, tell me about it. What's going on? That's good. I just had this big life changes in the past few years. Like what? Well, I've been a farmer my whole life, and I'm a fourth-generation farmer with Farmer Family Land, and my dad passed away. When did he pass away?

Two years ago. What was his name? Terry. A good man? Yes, very good. Hard worker? Oh, yes, very, very hard. He was wrinkled up like a raisin in that Lubbock sun, wasn't he? Yes, sir. Yeah, sure was. And he had hands like a... Dude, I spent 20 years in Lubbock. Those farmers, dude, their hands are like... It's like shaking sandpaper.

Yeah, that's right. That's right, man. They were rough and a couple of fingers didn't work anymore. That's right. That's right. And yeah, they got enough Roundup in their system. Their pee glows. You can see it from space. So what happened to Terry? He had...

It started off with an incident with a bull with some friends. He was separating some cattle, just messed around one day before a Super Bowl party, and a bull got a hold of him and a friend of his. He broke his hip and went in the hospital, and they found something in his lung at the time when they were doing all those x-rays for broken ribs and stuff. And, well, it was a fungal infection. Yep. And he ended up being on some blood thinners after some surgery. He had a...

He ordered a section that they had to go in and put some stents in, and they gave him blood thinners. Well, that infection in his lung bled out, and that's how he died. Hey, can I just tell you, just got a guy. I still got my old man around, and I'm sorry. That's good. Yeah, thanks. Yeah, I miss him every day. I know you do. I know. I'm sorry, man.

That's good. And farming the last two years has been gnarly in that part of the world. It's been real dry, huh? Well, yeah, it has, but my mom sold the farm and all of it. So what I did my whole life, I lost it too. You've lost everything. Yes. What have you been doing for work the last two years?

I started a little pressure washing business, a little trailer that I was washing cars with and houses and driveways and stuff. That's not cutting it for you, Kyle. That's not an identity. That wasn't working. That's not an identity. What are you doing for work? So for work now, I work at the college. Okay. And I work on the grounds. Okay. And then I recently got promoted up here to taking care of the farm. Excellent. Okay. Okay.

So you went your whole life working side by side with your old man and you watched him become this pillar of strength, third generation, and you were going to become fourth generation and work family land. And then within a span of 24 months, now you're working on somebody else's land and they tell you when your butt's going to be there, when it's going to leave. And you don't have that pillar of strength to call anymore, huh? Yeah.

No, I don't have that. I've got a really super, I'm a really good supervisor. I know, I know, but it's not your land. You know that. Oh, well, yeah, yeah. The guy that bought all the land wanted me to work for him, but I never was the way I was going to work for him. No, he didn't do that. Okay, so when did you start drinking? Oh, Lord, I'm not a teenager. What does that get for you?

Oh, nothing. Yeah, it did. You wouldn't do it that long if it didn't do something for you. I don't know. When I was a teenager, we just hung out. Yeah, there's not a lot else to do in Lubbock. Over here in Podunk, that's what we did. We don't live in Lubbock. We live west of there. Okay. Yeah, we live actually like 30 minutes outside of Lubbock, so there's even less. The Tohoku side or the other side? To the west. Okay, towards Amarillo. All right. Mexico side. Yeah, I got family in Port Talis. All right, so...

We'll cut to it because you and I could talk a long time. I've spent my life around you guys. Can I just cut to it and be real direct, Kyle? Is that okay? Sure, yeah. I'd be willing to bet that your dad was a pillar of strength and he was not a guy that would come home and grab you by the face and say, Kyle, I'm so proud of you. I'm so glad you're my son.

No, yeah, not a touchy-feely kind of deal, yeah. I know. And I bet you Jeannie came along and lit you up like a Christmas tree, didn't she? Oh, yeah. Yeah, she did. You didn't know what that was about. Uh-huh. And alcohol, alcohol is a great cheap substitute for a brain that's screaming for connection. Alcohol makes that...

sharp, shrill, that alarm that's real loud, it dulls it a little bit. And it lets you go to sleep and let you get to the next day and the next day and the next day and the next day. And then they take everything from you. They take your old man, they take your farm. I mean, everything except your wife and your kids. And your dad gave you a lot of tools. We didn't teach you to, and most dads don't, I'm not blaming Terry, but they, you were left out in the middle of a field with no tractor.

You don't have the skill set to handle that kind of grief all at once, my friend. Yeah. Is that fair? Yeah, I'd say that's fair. Okay. A lot. That's a lot to take at one time. It's a lot for anybody. I do this for a living, and I'm trying to wrap my head around that, man. If they said I could never sit with a hurting person ever again and my dad died in the same month, I wouldn't know what end was up. That's all I know, right? Right, yeah. And so your drinking got heavy, right? Yeah.

It did, yes. Okay, tell me about it. I don't know. It's not like I had a feeling like, oh, man, I'm missing my dad today. I'm going to go buy some beer. Or, man, we're broke and can't pay any of these bills today, and I want to go drink a beer. It just became, well, I'm awake, and I don't have anything to do for five minutes. Let's go get a beer. Those two stories that you just made up about, well, I'm so sad, I got to drink, or...

Those are stories. And that's not how most people get over their head with alcohol. Most people are bored and they just want that general underlying discomfort and pain to stop. Yeah, there you go. And a beer makes things a little funnier. Three little boys running around making you crazy when you're trying to mourn your dad. You don't even know how to grieve. Man, beer makes that better. And then Jeannie's like, hey, you need to. And then, man, shoot. Sheesh.

Oh, and by the way, you went and borrowed a bunch of stupid money for your power washing business. Whatever. You know what I'm saying? It builds up and it builds up and it builds up, and beer makes it go away for a minute. And I always used to tell my students at both universities I worked in your town, alcohol is amazing because it works until it takes everything from you. Yeah. Yeah. Do you hear me say, Kyle, you're about to lose it all? Yeah, I do. Yes, sir. I do hear you. Okay. Now, Jeannie, you're hearing him say all this stuff. Is this new to you, or do you know all this stuff?

No, none of this is new. Okay. We're pretty much on the same page with all of that. Okay, so your voice says like you're not having any of it.

Oh, it's just, it's been a really long road. And, you know, we've had the conversation. You know, his drinking was a problem before all of this stuff happened. Oh, 100%. Before he passed away. Yeah. But I guess I thought when we met and got married, it was, you know, it was a bachelor thing that he did. And I assume... I'm going to change him. Yeah, maybe. Awesome. I guess I just thought, I thought he would not...

snap up to the occasion you know i am gonna change a fourth generation texas farmer who's farming the desert by the way yeah from the bottom of the ogallala like there's not even any water left i'm gonna change that guy good good genie good and he's um you know when he's not drinking he he's amazing he's an amazing father of course um but it just like you said it got to be you

I would ask him why he's drinking. It would be like, well, it's a Tuesday or, well, I'm mowing the grass or I'm barbecuing. It's just like pretty much everything he did needed some alcohol with it. So, Jeannie, let me ask you direct just for time's sake. How can I help y'all?

I guess I feel like, you know, like I said, it's been a month that he has been sober. But I feel I'm still anxious. I feel like I'm just waiting for the other shoe to drop. OK, so I don't know if he has dealt with all of that stress. You do know that he has not.

Yeah. And you also know that he just has zero tools for grieving the level of grief that he has just been dropped into. Right. Yeah, and he really didn't get a lot of space to grieve. It was really like he just had to pick himself up and keep going. That's right. And then mom sold the farm. It's like, all right, I got three babies. I got bills to pay. So good on you, Kyle. A lot of men I talked to quit. But I want you to acknowledge your world as you knew it is over.

Oh, yeah. No, I see that. Yeah. No, no, no. I know you see it and you're just plowing ahead like in one of those Lubbock dust storms. You're just going to keep moving forward. That's who you are. That's who Terry raised you to be and good for him and good for you. And you're going to look behind you and you're going to have lost everything. Mm-hmm. Oh, yeah. You have to stop and grieve. And that doesn't mean you don't go to work and that doesn't mean you just sit around and mope. That's not what that means.

That means you sit down over the next couple of days, and I want you to write your dad a letter and tell him how much you love him and how much you miss him. And I also want you to write him another letter and tell him how pissed off you are that he left. Okay? Because you've been really mad at him, too. And I want you to write him, because I guarantee you the doctors told him some stuff, and he didn't do it. I ain't doing that. And I want you to write your mom a letter that you'll never send until you're heartbroken she sold four-generation family land.

And I want you to write 10 years from now, Kyle, a letter telling him the things that you did that were so uncomfortable so that 10 years from now, Kyle could have an amazing relationship with his 22-year-old son and his 19-year-old son and his 17-year-old son. Because they were going to be farmers too, and they ain't going to be farmers anymore because there's no more land.

No. You're going to have to find some other things to do. And that means you're going to be out over your skis relying on other men and women and teachers and coaches and professors to teach your sons in a way that you weren't taught. And that's okay, but it's all going to be new and it's going to freak you out. And your freak out, the way you deal with freak out is beer and you got to quit. Is that fair? You got to quit, yeah. Yeah, no.

Now, I'm telling you right now, you have white-knuckled the last 30 days tighter than you've white-knuckled about much anything in your whole life, right? It hasn't been that bad. Kyle. I quit smoking before a long time ago, 15 years ago. So even then, I told Sheeny I felt like a caged tiger when I was trying to quit that. But

This hasn't been too bad. I don't know. I can bury myself over here in something at work. That's the thing. We're done burying because you know what else you bury? You bury your soul. You bury your heart, and Jeannie wants that. And when you said, I do, you promised her that, so you got to quit burying it. You got to quit hiding it. Yeah. Okay. And Jeannie, you have gone from survival to what now? Your body is literally transitioning to a new gear because you were planning on being a single mom with three wild boys.

and you've chosen to stay. And that usually goes from survival to anger. And if you don't deal with anger and you make this, well, Kyle, when you start doing, you're going to move to resentment and there's no coming back. And by the way, if you go to resentment, you're going to teach those three boys, this is how you love a husband, into the ground. Fair? Fair. So I can hear it in your voice how mad you are. Okay.

Am I wrong? No, I don't think you're wrong. I think you feel bad about being mad, but it's time you be mad. Okay. Yeah, that's fair. Because if you're not mad, you're going to repress it and repress it. It's going to turn into resentment. And every time Kyle walks in, you're going to go, ugh. Right. Fair? Yeah, that's fair. Here's what I want you two to do. Y'all are going to have to go see a marriage counselor in Lubbock, Texas.

So logistically, I think. Or in Amarillo. You got to. Well, so we live 30 minutes west. There are counselors in our little town, but none that are certified or whatever for addiction. And there's not a marriage counselor in our town. That's not what we're doing here. Y'all are going to have to drive to Lubbock.

Okay. My, my drive to see my therapist is 45 minutes from where I am right now. That's just part of the deal. Okay. And you have to find somebody to watch your boys and y'all are going to quote unquote go to town. Right. And you probably can't afford it and you'll need to figure it out because you're about to lose everything. And Kyle, as a part of this, you're going to have to tell the truth and you're going to have to be vulnerable and you've never had to do either of those things ever. Is that fair?

Yeah, yeah, that's fair. When I say honest, I don't mean like, I don't cheat anybody. I show up when I say, that's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about looking at your wife and saying, I'm scared to death I'm going to lose you. I'm talking about looking at your wife and saying, I came home super hammered and embarrassed myself in front of our boys, and I set a bad example, and I'm so sorry. Will you forgive me? Yeah, yeah, I can do that. That's what I mean about honest. I'm so sorry. Yeah, but then you got up the next day and had another beer again. I did, yeah. I know.

And so you weren't sorry. You were just embarrassed. That's what I mean about being honest, honest, honest, honest, honest. And it's going to feel awkward. It's going to feel clunky. And Jeannie, it's going to be inconvenient. And you have to ask yourself, do you want this family to rebuild into something magical and amazing, which I believe it can. And by the way, you'll both know farmers all across your area are having to do this. Multiple generational farmers because they run out of water, right?

People are selling the land because the land is so valuable and the housing is expanding so fast so far. Y'all know that. So y'all can lead a path to other people who are going to get well in your wake because y'all went and did this hard work.

But Kyle, you're going to have to decide. I've got to learn new ways to cope with boredom, with frustration, with not feeling like I'm enough, with being outside of my dad's shadow, with loss, with grief, all those things. And it can't be alcohol anymore. And I'm telling you, you can't do that by yourself. You might stop alcohol. You're going to move to some other thing and some other thing and some other thing. And I want you to live a full throttle life. And Jeannie, if you decide to stay, you got to stay.

You can't be a Southern Texas wife and stay, but always have a scorn on your face at him. If you decide I'm going to stay, you got to be all in. And that means you're going to have to change too, because y'all going to have a new marriage. My wife and I are on about our eighth marriage now, but y'all are all worth it. I'm so proud of y'all for just being open and having the conversation and speaking up. And after this is over, I want y'all to both hug each other and just hold each other for a minute. Because I think Kyle loves you. And I think Jeannie still loves you, Kyle.

I want y'all to hold each other and commit. We're going to change. Kyle, I want you to write those letters. And Jeannie, I want you to write a letter to 10 year from now Jeannie and talk about the kind of wife you've become. But Kyle, I'm telling you right now, none of this changes until you decide I'm going to get clean and I'm going to be vulnerable and I'm going to stop burying myself or distracting myself from the life, the one precious life I got.

I'm going to learn just like I had to learn farming, just like how I had to learn working at the university, just how I had to learn all these new things. You can learn it. I'm going to learn how to stand tall and be the hardworking man of character that I know I can be. And I'm going to be full throttle, all in, when it comes to loving, when it comes to teaching my boys about love, hugging my sons, being fully present for my wife, all in. I've got to learn those new skills. I'm going to go make it happen. You're going to have to get a professional to help you do that. I'm grateful for you guys.

Call me back in a few weeks and maybe a month or two. Let me know how y'all are doing. Next time I'm in Lubbock, maybe we can connect there. Take care, good folks. We'll be right back. I cannot shut up about my Helix mattresses. My sister is staying with me this week, and she came down looking this morning like she just woke up from a coma. And her first question was, what in the world is that mattress? And I sang it to her, Helix.

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Go to helixsleep.com slash Deloney. That's helixsleep, H-E-L-I-X-S-L-E-E-P dot com slash Deloney. This offer won't last long, so go right now. Because with Helix Sleep, better sleep starts now. All right, we're back. Let's go out to Atlanta, Georgia and talk to Elizabeth. Hey, Elizabeth, what's up? Hi, how are you? I'm good. How are you? Thank you for taking my call. I'm good. Of course. What's up?

Well, I'm calling today hoping maybe you can give me some advice on what to do next or how to proceed. I'm in the point in my marriage where I'm pretty much ready to give up and ask my husband for a divorce. Okay.

What happened? Or what's been happening? So my husband and I have been together for 12 years. About eight months ago, I found out that he was hiding debt and his spending totaling about $40,000 over probably a little over a year. And that doesn't even include like his salary from...

from working. We had no credit cards, but apparently he's taken out three credit cards, maxed those out. That's about $20,000. He cashed out a 401k that he had from a previous job. That was $7,000. And then he took $10,000 cash out of the money that we had been saving. What is this...

Just to kind of cut to it, about 95% of this, I just made that number up, but the vast majority of these situations, there's he's seeing somebody or he is struggling mightily with a new addiction or he is in gambling losses over his eyebrows. What's he pulling all this money out all of a sudden for? Yeah.

I mean, it's just insane. So I went through like all of his bank statements, credit card bills, and it's just like golf clubs, private golf lessons, hunting equipment, you know, shopping, buying new clothes. It's just like really random stuff. Yeah.

You know, because I thought the same thing. Like, I don't understand how someone can spend $40,000 in 12 months and really not have a house full of new stuff. You know, is he gambling? Is he on drugs? Does he have a girlfriend, a secret family? Like, you know, I don't know. Have you done a forensic accounting of this? You've come up with about $40,000 worth of expenditures. It just flew out the back door.

So, I mean, I haven't added all of it up. You need to do that because I'm with you. That's really, if you're not finding hotel receipts on there or you're not finding. Not even like online gaming casinos or sports betting or, you know, any of that stuff. What has he said? What's his excuse?

So when we don't bank together and so when our bank changed their platform, so we have a joint account that he solely uses and then I have a checking account that my check goes into. Why do you all split up like that?

So before we used to bank together and he had back child support that he owed from a previous marriage and he was current on his child support. So when we were banking together because we had money in our savings account, they froze our bank account and our savings account. So we were able to get them to unfreeze it and then we separated our accounts until his child support was paid off, which it was paid off this year. Okay.

And then we were going to go back to having combined finances. So when the bank changed their platform, now when I log in, I can see my account and then I can see any joint accounts that I'm on. And so I noticed his balance was really low. So I

I go in and I start like kind of looking through there just because I've never really checked his account. And I start seeing like credit card payments. We don't have any credit cards together. So I asked him, I was like, hey, you know, like, do you have any credit cards? And he says, oh, yeah, you know, I have two.

And I said, what are the balances on there? Like, what are you spending money on a credit card? So, you know, at first he told me to, he told me like lower amounts than what they were, but, you know, it ended up turning into less.

three credit cards completely maxed out $20,000. Um, and then I see the 401k withdrawal and then, you know, I'm freaking out. So then I look at the money that we have saved and there's $10,000 gone. Um, and so at this point, like I'm freaking out. I mean, what, what is it? What's his excuse when you confront him? What does he said at the end of the day? Bottom line, what does he said? He said, I spent it on life. And he just looks at you.

And I said, you know, while you're out maxing out these credit cards, did you ever think about us, our family, our children? And he said, no, why would I? I said, I mean, I don't know. Our youngest is getting ready to go off to college. We have a blended family of three kids.

Two are in their early 20s, and then the last one is 18. And that child's getting ready to go to college in the fall. Yeah, I mean, do you not think about, like, the money that you're taking away from our family? Well, except for the number of students over the years that would get dropped off for freshman orientation and would be in my office the following week because one or the other parent had moved out because they were the last one to go. Right.

And so you ask me, I'm thinking about leaving my husband. I would tell you it sounds as though your husband has left you. I mean, I listen to your show all the time and you always say, you know, behavior is language. And I'm thinking to myself, like, is he screaming at me? Like I'm done. I'm checked out. I mean, when you say, when you said, have you thought about your family? And he said, why would I?

Good God. And that was like his exact words. Language is a language on that one. Dumbfounded. Yeah, I'm dumbfounded for you. Yeah, he's through. I think it's worth your soul. And here's what I mean by that. You're going to end up making yourself bananas wondering the what ifs and the hows and the whatever because he's clearly lost, if he ever had it, he's clearly lost that...

core sense of integrity. Like I'm a person who tells the truth. I'm a person who is in partnership with my wife, creating a family together. He has lost that. That center has dissolved. And I don't know where it went or why, whatever, whatever.

You're going to begin to get pieces of that and you're going to make yourself bananas if you don't have a full accounting of all the questions you want answered. And I don't think you're going to get truthful answers unless you go add those dollars up. Right. I would be stunned if there's not another shoe to drop financially or if there's not some big something or other. Either that or he is trying to burn through money so that when he leaves you, it makes separation easier.

And his, by the way, his math is going to be really a mess when he decides to pull whatever trigger he's going to pull. Yeah. When you've mentioned divorce and separation, what has he said? I mean, I haven't really mentioned divorce. I told him, you know, when we sat down and I finally found out about everything, I told him, you know, like, I can't continue like this. What did he say? And we don't really communicate.

I asked him, I said, you know, like, do you not love me anymore? Do you not want to be in this marriage? Like, if you don't, I mean, it's okay. You know, people change. People's feelings change. And he says, you know, no, like, I love you more than anything. I want to be with you.

And behavior is a language. Exactly. Like, I don't see it. And so he says, you know, like, I'll do a better job of communicating with you. That's so stupid. So in January was the last time that we have talked about that. That's so stupid. That was five months ago. Listen, Elizabeth, just so you know, you're not crazy.

I feel like I am. I know you do because you have, man, you've got Gaslight 101. You've got like the Southeastern Gaslighting Champion living in your home. This is not a communication issue. The fact that you're married is what keeps us from being criminal theft. He stole from a joint savings account. Like it's immoral. In my world, I call it financial infidelity. He has cheated on you. He has broke the fidelity of your marriage.

by taking money out of your future, from your future selves, by taking money out of your joint savings from your joint dreams together for the things y'all were going to get later. He's lied to you. He's hidden from you. This is every bit as infidelity, every bit as much infidelity as is sleeping with a neighbor. Right. And I would say probably more, but that's just me. 40 years. How much money do you make a year?

Combined, we make over $200,000. Okay. So he burned through $40,000. What do you even need that much to spend that much money on if you all make that kind of money? Nothing. That's, you know, I mean, I make the majority of the money. Of course you do.

That's awesome. High demanding job. I work a ton of hours. I asked him, you know, like, are you bored at home? Like, because, you know, a lot of times I'm not there. Is that like why you want to spend all this money? And, you know, he says no, because I'm thinking like, is that what it is? No, it's this. If it's not something like we talked about earlier, it's not seeing somebody else and there's not some sort of addiction or gambling challenge, which I still...

That'd still be where I'd put my money. No pun intended. He's a man that feels dead in his own skin and buying things, signing up for things, charging things, liquidating accounts to buy. Like it, it gives you a little bit of a sense of aliveness. And then when somebody challenges it, they can say, I was just spending my money on life.

But it's the same reason somebody texts somebody back a nude, topless photo of somebody they're not married to. It just makes you, that rush, right? It's that feeling of aliveness. I'm going to risk the fact that I don't know what that guy's going to do or what that woman's going to do with that picture of my naked body for the rest of my life. I don't care. I got this rush right now. Right. Right? It's the same thing. Same thing. And there's got to be, it's not a matter of I'll communicate better. That's just nonsense. This is a matter of the marriage we had before is over now.

By the way, the timing's pretty good because you're about to be empty nesters, right? Your 18-year-old's about to be gone. Right. Is your 18-year-old going into college as a freshman in a few months? Yes. Okay. It's the perfect time to control or delete. Great kid, super smart. And so it may be that your husband's seeing, like, what's my role, what's my purpose here? And instead of handling that like a mature adult, he just spun out. But the marriage you'll have is over.

Just so you know, you're not nuts. You're not crazy. It's over like that, that we're together. We're, we both have these same values. We don't violate these values. Um, yes, people grow and change. That's amazing. My wife's like radically different person. I am too. Our beliefs change. Our thoughts about things change, but our values are still etched in stone. Right. And, and,

So we've changed, but here we are, and y'all's marriage is – what it was is over. Now y'all get to decide. Are we going to rebuild something as empty nesters moving forward? I mean I was willing, but I see no effort from him. Yeah, but also you – I mean y'all talked three months ago. You never – or four months ago. You never followed up. Y'all never made it like – so you've got some ownership in that.

I do, but I'm always the one to bring it up. And the last time we had that conversation in January, I sat on the couch and I poured my heart out to him. I told him like, these are the things that I need. Like, I am so alone in this marriage. I'm the one who makes all the decisions. When I come to you and say, hey, you know, like, what do you think about this? What do you think we should do? It's always, I don't know, whatever you think.

Is he being a coward or is he emasculated? I mean, I have no idea. Like, I don't, if I do do that, I don't mean to. I always include him. If I ever make any big purchases, I always say like, you know, hey, are you comfortable with this? You know, I try to let him make decisions and do things, but it's just like he always puts it back on me. Yeah. Yeah, I think it's time for a hard conversation.

And he doesn't sound like the kind of person who's going to have the integrity. If he's leaving, then he's going to actually leave. Right. He's going to force you to do it, and then he's going to be the victim, and that's going to play well in court, especially if you make a whole bunch of money. Not a whole bunch, but...

I hate this for y'all, but yeah, I think it's, uh, you've listened to the show live. This is the turn on the lights moment. Send the 18 year old away and just say, we got to be adults. No saying, I don't know. I don't care. We can't do any of that. No whining, no screaming. Are we going to, are we going to create a new marriage? Are we done? Yeah, I think we're at that. I think we're at that conversation. And if he walks away, I think you tell him upfront behaviors, the language, your actions have told me over the last six months, you're completely done with this marriage. Um,

Has he put the $40,000 back in, or at least the $10,000 that he stole out of the family savings? No, he still spends money. He eats out almost every single day. A couple of weeks ago, he bought a $300 GoPro camera, a $120 bottle of bourbon, and then he has no money in his checking account, and then I have to pay for him to get a new tire.

Like, I don't... He doesn't pay any bills. I pay all the bills. The only thing he does is buy groceries. So the rest of his paycheck is free to do, you know, whatever he wants to do. I want him to be able to have spending money. I know, but you see how that's set up. He's your son. Like, the way you just described that to me, he's your child. Yeah. And I'm not saying it didn't get there, like, because it had to, because that's how he acted. But how the dynamic is now is...

He gets to spend the money. He gets to spend on whatever he wants to. I pay all his bills. I never wanted him to feel like he didn't have. Of course not. Of course he didn't. No. But I think we're past the blame part. I think that it is what it is. And just by hearing what you're saying is he clearly doesn't want to be married. I mean, that's how I'm interpreting it. Yeah.

And so I think that's the conversation. And if you are going to tell them, I will never divorce you. If you want out of the marriage, you're going to have to file the paperwork. But from this point forward, I'm going to move our money because you keep stealing my money. You keep taking my money.

I mean, I got so scared. I put a credit freeze on all three credit bureaus. And you should do it on your kids also. Everything I had in savings and invested it in a CD that can't be pulled out for 12 months. And you should do it with your kids. Yeah. To make sure that there's not credit cards sticking out in their name too. But at the end of the day, yeah. I think, I mean, I appreciate the call and you're running stuff by, but you're not crazy. You're not crazy.

And if he has another side of the story, it's up to him to communicate that, to put it on the table. So here's the deal. You got to have this final conversation and then you have to have your or what moment. I will not file paperwork on you. I will go to protect me and the kids, but I will not file paperwork on you. If you want out of this marriage, you have to file for divorce or maybe I'll file the paper if that's what we're going to do.

But it sounds like you still want to stay in this thing and you still love this guy. And he's trying to find every reason why you love him. And he's trying to scratch that off. So to make it borderline impossible. So, yeah, it's a come to Elizabeth meeting or come to the family meeting. Ask, are we going to keep doing this? Especially during this great season of transition when y'all are about to be empty nesters. I hate that. If he wants to call me, I'd love to talk to him. I can almost guarantee you he won't, but...

I wish you the best in the next few months. It's going to be a tough, tough road. But thanks for the call, Elizabeth. I'm really grateful. We'll be right back.

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All right, Kelly, what's something cool that happened? All right, this is from James. He says, I've been listening for a long time. Is this James Childs, the one who quit? After I read this next few sentences, you can decide. All right, cool. I am a man. Yes. Okay, so not James Childs. All right, continue. A meat-eating, beer and whiskey drinking, I'm going to chop wood and build stuff in my spare time, work on my truck that doesn't need any work, red-blooded American man.

I've got so many comments, but just... He's trying to say something nice. I'm going to let him. Go ahead. All right. I always thought it was corny BS every time you would tell someone to ask their wife, how can I love you today? My home life is absolutely incredible. No issues, no complaints at home. Today, I said that to my wife and the conversation was incredible. Thank you. Everything at home is awesome and the...

And that one line that I thought was ridiculous melted my wife. Thank you for what you do. I'm just not going to comment. I'm going to accept that note of gratitude. What's his name? James? Not James Childs. James, thanks for writing in, buddy. Thanks for writing in. And thanks for giving it a shot even when it felt cheesy and corny. And good for you for creating a world where your wife can be honest and respond back to you. That's awesome. Way to go, James.

So many jokes, I'm not going to make them. That's awesome. Thanks, James. What do you think, Kelly? I think that's awesome. Good. Me too. And I think what he was saying there was like, I'm the kind of guy that doesn't normally do this. And he did it. That's huge. And a lot of times, and it happens, one person in a relationship will think things are the most amazing thing ever. And they just need to ask that one question. And then they realize, oh, okay. Not as amazing as, but...

Good for you guys. Way to go, James. I'm proud of you, brother. That's amazing. That's awesome. Stop working on your truck if it doesn't need to be worked on. And keep asking your wife how you can love her. It's amazing. I love you guys. Bye.