I Don’t Trust My Husband to Make Decisions
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Coming up on the Dr. John Deloney Show. He had a life-threatening condition which caused him to really become depressed and start drinking. Since then, we've grown apart. We really don't trust him to make our big decisions in life. And he feels like he's left out of our relationship. Nothing has caused him to drink.

What up, what up, what up? This is John with the Dr. John Deloney Show. We're talking about your mental and emotional health, your families, your kids, schooling, dating, all of it right here. Real people going through real challenges.

I'm John, and man, I've been sitting with hurting people for more than two decades now, and that's what this show's about, sitting with real people, trying to figure out what's the next right step. If you're struggling with your mental health, you're struggling with your relationships, your emotional health, how to get your feelings under control, whatever you got going on, you want to be on the show, give me a buzz at 1-844-693-3291. It's 1-844-693-3291, or go to johndeloney.com slash ask.com.

Please hit the subscribe button. Take you 13 seconds, actually probably three, unless you've never logged in like me, and then it'll be like 13 seconds, but it makes a huge difference with the algorithms. If you'll hit the subscribe button or the follower, wherever you're listening to this, it makes all the difference in the world. Be super, super grateful. Let's roll out to the 505 in Albuquerque, New Mexico and talk to Robin. Hey, Robin, what up? What up? Hi. How are you?

I'm doing okay today. Having a good day. Good. Good. It's a good qualifier. So how can I help? So my husband and I kind of have an issue right now. A few years ago, he had a life-threatening condition, which caused him to really become depressed and start drinking. And since then, we've

kind of grown apart. I really don't trust him to make our big decisions in life and he feels like he's left out of our relationship which is just causing the depression to be worse. And I'm

You know, we just have a small baby and three months postpartum and I'm looking to the future and to make our lives better. And he is really stuck on things that have happened in the recent past. And so I just don't know where to go from here. I don't know how to get back on the same page. And it's been really hard. Yeah. So what happened? What was his life threatening challenge that he had?

He found out he has a blood clotting disorder. He almost died. He had to have emergency surgery and will be on medication for the rest of his life. And it's a pretty big challenge. What's the challenge?

He just... It's just a different life for him. He's not taking it well, not being in good health, you know, knowing that no matter what, he's always going to have this looming over him. And, you know, in his job...

If he gets, um, hurts himself, that can be a very big problem and he works manual labor. So that is always something he worries about and the potential, you know, for our son to be affected and our lives to be affected. He just took it really hard when he got sick and, and never really got over, um, that kind of really, um,

traumatic incident. I want to challenge your language. Is that okay? Yes. Okay. Please. Nothing has caused him to drink or nothing has caused him to take a path of throwing his hands up and saying, well, I guess this is just that. Yeah. That is the path he has chosen. And it could be learned. It could be genetic. It could be all that wound up together, twisted up. I don't really care how we got here.

- Yes. - But the choice on a daily basis to choose worry, a thing that will absolutely contribute nothing to a problem and only make it worse. To choose not good health, to choose not to be plugged in and okay, so I can't do X, Y, and Z, cool, I'm gonna take the next two to three to five years to learn a new trade, a new skill 'cause I got a little baby and I got a wife.

Yeah. The choice to not get plugged in with you and this new baby. And it's because you're also calling me three months postpartum, which tells me you are dying from loneliness, aren't you? Yes. Yeah. And so all that to say is, again, I know I'm sounding harsh. Nobody chooses to be depressed. Nobody chooses to be anxious, but you do choose way upstream to not do the things you need to do to go get well, to go ask somebody for help. Right. Yeah. And so, um,

until there's some ownership taken in your home, you're right. It's just gonna be a stumbly, crumbly car wreck. And here's the terrifying thing that I, I know you know this intellectually, but I wanna say it and like let you be witnessed, okay? You can't change anything for him. He has to make that choice for himself. I'm kind of there, yep. So the question you have to ask yourself is, are you being honest with him

about what you need and maybe a path he could take to help more around the house, to participate more in your marriage, to like all marriages get sideways when you have a three month old, that's just part of it. Okay. And if everybody knows that, that like your money's messed up, your sleep's messed up, your sex life's messed up, like all these things are kind of messed up when you have a three month old, um, that something's not broken. This is just part of it, right? When your car's getting, uh,

repaired. It's not driving. That's okay. We know that. So, um, does, are you giving him a path towards what you need? Here's what I need in this marriage right now. We've never been married and had a three month old. We're here now. Here's what I need. Here's what I want. Are you being really clear with him? I try to be, I don't know if I'm really clear with myself. That may be. Yeah. That's the next question. Tell me about that. Um,

Hi, I'm just, you know, I'm had a hard life myself. I had a very traumatic childhood and I tend to be over functioning. And so I have a hard time saying, okay,

Is this too clear? Right. Because I'm the kind of person who's pretty upfront and honest, but I think I take it a little too far and I'm blunt and sometimes mean or unhelpful, you know, not in the right timing or in the right tone or something where it just makes it a lot worse. Okay. Is that something you're interested in and

learning new ways to move. So have you ever sat down and asked him, how can I love you better? How can I love you in a different way? Yes, I have with the intention. But again, sometimes I don't see the...

I have a hard time putting my feelings aside when it comes to those things because I do feel I feel neglected and I feel lonely. And so sometimes we get into that conversation, but it's easy to get very defensive. Defensive when he says, well, we can't I can't get close to you because you're mean.

Yeah. Okay. And then you say, then you respond by getting mean and he goes, see, and then you feel lonely and then that makes you mean. And then he says, I can't, it just, it just creates this dance, right? Yes. Okay. In the same way, I would look him in the eye if he was sitting right here in front of me and ask him, what is this worry? What is this just cashing out on your life? What is that getting you? Or as Dr. Phil would say, would ask, how's that working for you?

I would ask you the same thing. What is living in feelings and responding and keeping people at arm's length with bluntness and with defensiveness? How's that working? Not very well. Okay. Yeah. It's exhausting too, isn't it? Yeah. What happened when you were a little girl?

Both of my parents were pretty hardcore drug addicts and were pretty neglectful. I was the oldest of three and I was the one who took care of everybody. And so I just am now kind of learning, first of all, that that was not a normal childhood and that I don't have to be the one

the one in charge all the time. And that means, well, if we were in person, I would keep pressing there, but I know we're short on time. That means you're going to have to learn to let somebody care for you and learn to let somebody love you.

I actually just recently signed up for my own counseling, individual counseling. Hey, way to go, dude. But hey, here's another scary thing. With the picture you've painted of your husband, he may not show up. That's what I'm worried about. Okay. The only way to figure that out is to head right into it. Okay. Do you think he's going to, if you sat down and said, I mean...

And I've been trying to protect myself for all these years. And I want to give you an opportunity. I need you to love me in this kind of way. Do you think he'll go finally or he'll go? I'm not doing that. Well, I hope finally. I know we can all hope. I don't know. What do you think? I'm not sure. I honestly don't know. It's, it's been a very hard road and I guess part of me thinks that maybe it'll be the latter. And that hurts. Yeah.

How much more will it hurt than the daily just hurt you live in right now? That's a good question. That is a very good question. I mean, and I, again, with a baby, I, it's like beyond me even. It's whether or not this is good for my son. Y'all's son. Our son, yeah. Right, yeah. And it's the little things when your language starts to shift.

When it becomes mine and my and I, that's when you start slowly circling the wagons. Yeah. And you've lived behind a wall your whole life. You had to. That's how you survived. That's how you kept your siblings alive. And that's going to be the death of your marriage. And it sounds like your husband got a tough curveball thrown at him by life and he just quit. That is pretty much how it feels. Okay. I would love for you...

to invite him out somewhere, you know, go somewhere, change the environment a little bit and tell him, I've never been married to a guy. This is your first kid, right? Yes. Okay. I've never been married to a guy who's a dad and you've never been married to a woman who's a wife. I mean, a mom. And I'm tired of being mean and I'm tired of not letting you love me. And I'm also scared to death that you've just quit your life. I'm all in if you're all in because we got to rebuild a new marriage.

And then I think you have to understand in your guts, both in your feelings and intellectually, that you're choosing your heart here. There's no easy path forward. It's going to be hard to rebuild your marriage and learn to trust because everything in your body is going to tell you, don't do this because it remembers mom and dad, right? Yeah. And it's going to be really hard just sitting there while your marriage slowly drowns.

Yeah, it has been really hard. I know. So there's no easy path here. I'm going to suggest you choose the hard, which has the possibility to leading towards light and goodness and peace in your home.

And if it ends up, he looks at you and says, "I'm not doing any of that stuff." Then he's made some choices and you'll have to deal with that hard choice. But it's, at least you've got some resolution and you've got a path forward. Right now, you're just drowning in quicksand. And this little boy is looking at you saying, "Mommy, is this how this is supposed to be?" And you're like, "No, no, no, no, no. "I'm gonna do something different than my parents gave me." Right? - Yeah. Yeah, thank you. - And by the way, marriages don't just end. People quit, okay?

And if two people say, I am going to go to the end of the earth to make this thing work and to make this thing the best it could possibly be, are you in? And the other person says, I'm all in. It's magic. It's actually, it's not magic. It's just hard work. But this illusion that marriages just run out of gas, that's not true. People just take their foot off the gas pedal. Okay?

Yeah. Yeah, I feel that. Yeah. So it's not going to end unless y'all, both of you quit or one of you quit and then it does. And then you'll have to deal with that aftermath. But I, let me say these things in order. Okay. Number one, everything in your marriage should feel topsy turvy and upside down right now. You have a three month old, your first kid, everything is different than you thought. Okay. That's not crazy. You're not broken. There's not something wrong. It just is. And number

His choice of coping mechanisms, whether that's just cashing out, it's not learning a new trade, it is just drinking himself to death after a medical diagnosis. That's a choice. All those things are choices. And he can make different choices. He's always going to have a blood clotting disorder. And what an amazing gift that he happens to be alive in a sliver of history where they have blood clotting medication. Amazing. Does any of us want to be chained to meds for the rest of our life? No.

But dude, the alternative is he's not with us anymore. So thank God we've got the meds, right? That's awesome. Amazing. Let's celebrate that. Then let's ask, okay, what's next? And the choice you'll have in front of you is, are we done or are we going to rebuild something new as a new mom and a new dad and a new somebody learning a new trade because it's not safe to keep doing my job and I got to do something different because I got to provide for my family and I need purpose and I need you to let me love you. And I, all those things, man.

hard, scary. And when he tells you the truth, you have to decide, okay, I'm not gonna get all in my feels and respond. I'm gonna exhale. I'm gonna write it down. I'm gonna choose not to go to war with you. I'm gonna choose not to be mean, but he has to choose to engage, right? And let's get to a place where we can ask ourself this question. How do we want this home to feel when both of us get home? Let's just reverse engineer that. Congratulations on having this new little boy. He's lucky to have you as his mom and you have fought and scratched and clawed and survived.

so much. Let's redesign this marriage and let's rebuild it and let's go create it because it has the chance to be something amazing. Thanks for the call, Robin. We'll be right back. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp.

So my wife and I were meeting the other day about the back-to-school madness that is about to be on us. We've got my travel schedule, her work schedule, our daughter's new school and clothes and forms to fill out and all these online portals and my son's sports schedule and he's got to have shoes every two weeks because his feet won't stop growing and how are we going to pay for all this and on and on and on.

And when we step back and look at our schedule, it's so packed and we haven't even put in the things like exercise, date nights, counseling appointments, church and holiday trips and big home projects. And these are the things that make life worth living. And I listened to y'all. This is your life too. And here's what I've learned. When it comes to taking care of me, my family and my work, I have to begin with the things that matter most and the things that keep me well and whole so I can wade into the chaos and be sturdy and present and strong.

you too. So as you're planning your upcoming end of summer and fall plans, make sure you don't skip date nights, don't skip regular exercise, and don't skip your regular therapy appointments. Yes, therapy can be hard work, but can also help make the rest of your life possible.

When it comes to therapy, I want you to consider calling the team at BetterHelp. BetterHelp is 100% online therapy staffed with licensed therapists. It's convenient, it's flexible, and it's suited to fit your schedule.

With a good therapist, you can learn things like positive coping skills, how to set boundaries, how to deal with all the chaos going on in your life, and how to be the best version of yourself. In this upcoming season, make sure you put on your oxygen mask first. Never skip therapy day. Call my friends at BetterHelp. Visit betterhelp.com slash deloney today to get 10% off your first month. That's betterhelp, H-E-L-P dot com slash deloney.

All right, let's go out to Coeur d'Alene and talk to Daniel. What's up, Daniel? Oh, doing okay. Excellent, excellent. Yeah. So what's up, man? How can I help? So I got my question wrote down, and I'll do my best to speak clearly and let me know if you have any issues hearing me. All right, let it rip.

So I wrote, how do I move forward after hard conversations or conflict, whether it's with my spouse, family, friends, or strangers? Specifically, I'm dealing with a feeling of fear. What happens is in the moment, I'll shut down and just want to get out of the situation a lot of times.

If it's serious enough, I'll sit there and dwell on it for days over and over what I could have done differently or what I could have said. Part B is that, and the most important factor is I've been struggling with pornography use since about the age of 15. I've always battled with fear even before pornography use, but I think it's magnified the fear in those situations. I met...

That's my own doing, but it's robbed and taken too much joy and peace out of my life. I'm thankful to be in this situation, believe it or not, because I've had the courage to finally speak up with my wife and tell her the truth about how I've been drowning in this for so long. And I'm ready to be an encouragement to my family and friends, because I know so many people are struggling with this same issue.

I'm proud of you for saying that out loud, dude. Will you take a huge deep breath for me? Yeah. Thank you. Is that the first time you ever said that out loud other than to your wife? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, for a long time at least. Been sitting in there, man. Yep.

All right. Did your wife, when you told her, did she say, screw you, I'm out of here? No. What'd she say? She was very, there's a little bit of backstory to that too. I don't know if you want it or not, but. Go for it.

So I was out of town working for two months and then I got home and I've never had any issues with any neighbors or anything, but my one neighbor was very confrontational. I'm not sure if he was drunk or on some drug or what happened, but he wanted to fight, you know, just being crazy. And I walked away from it, but I went inside. But after that happened, I was in such fear that,

You know, just what could happen, all these thoughts running through my head, you know, what may happen, you know, anyway. And it was obviously very irrational, right? Like this guy's going to come get me and my family, whatever. And that's not even real because I've never had an issue with him.

up to that point. So anyway, after sitting in that fear for, you know, a week or whatnot, and just scrambling, my wife approached me and just said, you know, I felt something probably, you know, from God in my spirit, just, you know, tell me to ask you, have you been using pornography? And I told her the truth, you know, I said, yes, I've been struggling with it.

And in our premarital counseling, we talked about it too about five years ago. But I wasn't really completely honest with how bad it had gotten. So she knew about it, but she was, I guess, in the dark and I was hiding it. Sure. So all the things that you're saying...

like a lifetime struggle with pornography. Yeah. This constant, after you have social interactions, this rumination and rumination and rumination, I should have said this and I saw them, they kind of looked away and so I think that meant this and this post hoc social engineering, right? Like I'm gonna replay what happened as though if I replay it enough, I can change what actually happened.

And then this casting into the future, like my neighbor comes and he's going to do this. And I mean, he's going to do this. He's going to do this. He's going to do this instead of he was just kind of out of his mind and he had a bad day. Yeah, exactly. All of that tells me that you have this internal terror that you're going to be left or rejected. Did somebody leave you when you were young?

Uh, no. I mean, my parents got divorced, so kind of, but... Stop. Stop. The answer to that question is yes. One of my parents moved out on me. Yes. And left town, yeah. How old? How old? I was 12. Okay. In the most formidable, important season of your life outside of the newborn era, when the brain goes and...

quadruples itself. I made that up. It just, everything changes. Who left mom or dad? Uh, dad had to move. He had to know. No, he didn't. He chose to leave. Okay. Dad chose to leave. You're right. Yeah. Okay. Yep. And ever since then, 12 year old Daniel's been wondering what's so bad about me. And you couldn't risk a real relationship with,

And the internet gave you some fake ones. Exactly. And you can't just trust yourself to be you all your awkward self. So you show up and you try to be who you think social people want you to be. And then you replay it over and over and over and over and over. Because if they leave you too, then it's all confirmed. You suck and you're not worthy of being loved. Right. Stop. Stop. Stop.

Isn't that exhausting, dude? Oh, yeah. Yeah, it is. Very. Remember that moment when your wife, did she hug you after you were honest about your pornography? Yeah. Yeah, she did. Okay. Held my hand. Do you remember what that felt like? Like a whole bunch of cinder blocks were taken off your shoulders? Exactly. Yeah. Okay. That's exactly how it felt. That can be your life if you'll allow it. Right. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, that makes sense. I don't need it to make sense. I need you to feel that in your body. Okay. Bro, the way you're living is so exhausting. Do you have a relationship with your old man? Yes, I do. Very good. Have you ever sat down and said, hey, why'd you leave me? No, I haven't done that. Then your relationship's not super good. What probably is happening is you've learned to perform because you're terrified he's going to leave you again.

Yeah. Yeah, that's probably right. And you laugh at his dumb jokes and you accept his political positions and yada, yada, yada. And he's probably tried to overdad you to correct his previous mistake. Yeah. Fair? Yeah, that's fair. That's fair. Listen to me super carefully, okay? Okay. You're not a piece of crap, Daniel. Thank you. And you're worth being friends with.

Yeah, I agree. I know you agree intellectually, but you don't believe me. I think I do. I'm just trying to speak clearly for you. Are you weird? Are you awkward? No. I mean, maybe, I guess. I am. Maybe. Super awkward.

I mean, I think I've gotten a lot better socially, honestly. After I got married, I've been a lot more open and friendly with people. All right. I wish there was a more romantic way to say what I'm about to say. I wish there was a more sophisticated, esoteric way to say what I'm about to say, and there's just not. Okay. Yeah, just say it. You have to choose to believe you're worth being friends with. Right. You have to choose...

to begin to practice, stop dwelling on social interactions for days on end. - That's what I wanna do. That's what I'm gonna do. - I'm gonna teach you, I'm gonna give you a couple of homework assignments that you can do that I promise you if you'll stick with it and not give up, that over time, you'll get more confident, your body will learn. And then when people reject you or they walk away from a conversation, your body won't go to war

Trying to salvage something that has nothing to do with you. It has to do with them. Right. Fair. Exactly. Okay. Yeah, that's fair. All right. Every time you get done with a social situation and you begin to spin out, I want you to stop and take 10 minutes and write it all down. Okay. Keep a special journal that's just for negative self-talk.

Yeah. I shouldn't have. I should have. I can't believe I. I wonder if I want you to write those things down and literally feel yourself getting them out of your body. I've heard you say that a lot on your show. I listen a lot. I've done that here and there. I need to do it regularly. Make it a regular practice. Just like going to the gym every once a month or so is not going to get you anywhere. Right. What we're doing over time is teaching our body to begin to default to something else.

Yeah. Like, oh, that guy just walked away. I used to spin out like you. And now when someone's like, oh, I got to go. I think, oh, do they got to go to the bathroom? That's my first, I get to make up whatever story I want. Yeah. Right. One of those is funny. One of those is not. Yeah. Right. The second one is you have to decide to stop having imaginary conversations with people that are not in the room. Yeah, that's true. Very true. I feel that. Yeah.

How often do you spend having conversations in your head with other people that are not in the room? Too often. I don't really, I can't put a timeframe or number on it, but like I said, anything major or serious happens. Okay. Yeah. What I deem to be major, I guess. Right. I am going to take a guess here.

I wonder how much of those imaginary conversations is your mind and body spinning out trying to solve a problem, and the problem is why did dad leave? Yeah. I wonder what it would be like for you to say, "Dad, I wanna have a serious, hard conversation with you." Mm-hmm. And to tell him up front, "My 12-year-old Daniel is still wondering why'd you leave me?"

Right. Yeah. Cause I've never, yeah, I've never talked about it with him. I just heard all the stories from my siblings and you know what I mean? From parents, but I never had that. Well, and he may say, I'm going to have to tell you some things about your mom that you don't want to hear. Yeah. Or I really screwed up and I'm so sorry. Or tell him, dad, I've been wondering for 20 years what I did. Yeah. And maybe he'll look you in the eye and start weeping and say, dude, I'm so sorry. That was never yours to carry.

Yeah. And he might come up with a stupid excuse and make up some bull crap story, right? Yeah. Yeah, it's possible.

Thank you. Appreciate it. Are you, do you have some accountability to be done with poisoning your mind? Yeah. So I have a friend that has a naturopathic clinic and he's been, I've been in there a couple of times and I have his number and he's a good friend. I'm talking about like, bro, if, if pornography is burying you, you got to stop.

- Right. - And if that means cutting off the internet in your house for six months, then cut off the internet in your house. It's not worth it, man. - Yeah. So what was your question, I guess? - Are you done with it? - Yes, I'm done. - Do you have any accountability plans? You have people in your life that you can call, like an essay group you can talk to, like a group of men that you can be like, bro, I'm struggling hard. Or here's the bigger thing. When you're about to log in,

When you're about to go to X site or you pick up your phone and you're about to go to wherever. Yeah. If you can just pause for two seconds and say, what's my body trying to protect me from right now? Yeah. It almost never wants to go see other people having sex. Right. It almost always wants to protect you from feeling less than about to be rejected, bored, not feeling alive, annoyed with your wife, like whatever's going on.

Yeah. That's the real issue that we got to deal with. And in your case, I would be willing to bet money. It's something around you're about to feel rejected. Yeah. I mean, I could see that totally, but yes, I'm completely done with it. It's going to glad it didn't glad it didn't lead to me, you know, running off with another woman or something. It wouldn't have led to that. That would have been a choice you made.

Yeah, that's what I mean. Fair. Yes, that's fair. Okay. And if you're having, like, if you're texting people you shouldn't be texting, if you're talking to people you shouldn't be talking to, that ends today. Those numbers are out of your phone. They're deleted. They're gone. Fair? Right. Yeah, that's fair. No, none of that's going on. Okay. The next time you catch yourself having an imaginary conversation with somebody, just stop. Whether it's, and people are listening going, okay, I'll just stop. Literally. Say out loud, stop. Stop.

Or not having this conversation today. I did that in the shower this morning. I was having an imaginary conversation with somebody I work with because I got pissed off last night at an event and I need to talk to them today. And I just started rehearsing

The conversation. And you know what? When I was rehearsing it, I was winning. I was crushing them and saying all the right. It's so stupid. It's a fake power trip. That's what I was experiencing today. Right. And I had to stop and go, stop, like, stop. You're not having imaginary conversations right now. Number one, it's weird to have imaginary conversations in the shower naked about one of your coworkers. That's just strange. But beyond that, um, stop having imaginary conversation. I mean, having a real conversation with somebody that you need to solve a problem with.

But it takes time. And when I get tired, when I don't eat right, when I've been traveling, then my default setting starts to roll back a little bit. And I got to remind myself, I'm not doing imaginary conversations. I'll either cross that bridge when I get there or I'm going to call that person and set up a meeting and we're going to figure it out. But I'm not going to weigh down my life with imaginary things. Each day has enough trouble of its own. All this rests on...

The thing you hear me say over and over and over, Daniel, you're worth having peace in your life and you're worth coming home and not feeling like everybody's going to reject you. And you're worth getting some closure with your old man if you think he can handle that. And you also have, you're worth knowing that if he can't handle that, that's not on you, that's on him. And I'm like, you're not carrying his crap anymore. Hang on the line, brother. I'm going to send you a copy of Building a Non-Anxious Life and Own Your Past, Change Your Future, my two number one bestselling books. I want you to go through them and read them slowly. Okay?

Read them a chunk at a time and digest them and metabolize them and begin to do the exercises in those books. And just never forget there's peace on the other side of this thing if you continue to chase it, chase it, chase it, claw, scratch, go get it. Proud of you, brother. Proud of you. Let's go solve for peace. Not solve for worry and solve for, what did they say? Solve for peace. We'll be right back.

All right, I want to talk about Halo. It's an app that I use just about every single day. So we're here at the end of summer trying to fit in that last minute vacation, trying to figure out where all of our money went and trying to plan for the start of school. And it's chaos. It's chaos. It's chaos in your life and it's chaos in mine.

And it's this season when it's super important to make sure you double and triple down on your exercise practices, your counseling, your relationships, and your spiritual health. And if you're a person of faith or if you're just curious and you don't know anything about this faith, prayer, whatever stuff, don't let your daily prayer or your meditation practices or your questions go unanswered or by the wayside. Don't let your still time with God go.

As things ramp up and get more and more chaotic, we have to choose to slow down and focus on the things that really, really matter.

And in addition to my conversations with my friends and my personal reading and journaling time, Hallow helps me stay on point with my spiritual practices. Hallow is an app that's easy to download right to your phone and it is packed with daily prayers, lecture series, meditations, music, stories, nighttime sleep programs, and more. Hallow is the number one prayer app in the world. And it's simple, it's super high quality, and you can personalize it based on wherever you happen to be in your spiritual life.

I use it on my drive to work, when I'm sitting in front of my red light, sometimes when I'm out walking my dogs, and I even listen to some of the music when I'm writing.

Hallow has a journaling feature for your own personal reflection. I could go on and on. It's got everything. Here's what's really cool. This month, Hallow has special guests each week walking us through the lives of some incredible historical saints, learning more about their life, their faith, their story, and ultimately their surrender to God's call on their life. Hallow's Saints in Seven Days series dives deeper into the lives of these prominent saints, exploring their journey to sainthood and how it relates to our own lives.

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All right, we're back. Let's go out to Athens, Georgia and talk to Hannah. Hannah, what's up, Hannah? Hi, how are you? Awesome. How are you?

Um, I would say awesome, but then I wouldn't be calling. And I'm not doing awesome either. I'm just fine. I'm just fine. I'm being overdramatic like always. What's up? Um, well, I kind of have a two part question. Um, I'm worried that my husband may be having an emotional affair with my best friend and I'm having difficulties having like open and honest conversations with him about it. Okay. Tell me more.

So I guess, I guess it all started a month ago. I woke up one morning, just happened to see that the security cam doorbell thing had a banner on my phone and it was my husband leaving the house at midnight. And then there was another one that had him coming back at 2 AM. And so when I asked him about it, he just said, hold on Hannah, those are called regular affairs, not emotional affairs.

Okay. Well, so he said he went next door, which is my best friend is my neighbor next door. And her and me and my husband and her and her husband, we hang out, we do things with the kids. So I didn't actually feel weird about that. But what I, I asked him, how did it come to be that he went over there at midnight? And he just said that she invited him over.

So that didn't really sit well. And I just asked him to see the text so I could understand. And a few hours after him just refusing to let me see the phone at all, he told me he deleted the text. Hannah. Yeah. You hear yourself as you're saying this, right? Oh, I know. I know. Until you decide I'm going to sit in reality, I can't help you.

Yeah. You know, you know. Has he cheated on you before? Yes. Okay. Do you have little ones? Do you have little ones? Yeah. Okay. We have a almost, well, almost 13-year-old and an 8-year-old. And you promised yourself never again, right? Of course. And you blamed yourself for part of it last time, right? Yes, sir. I'm not minimizing what this all means, okay?

In fact, I know that you don't want to turn around because if you turn around, you realize that the gates of hell have just been opened. And so it's easier just to keep looking forward and make up imaginary stories. Yep. But I would not be your friend and I wouldn't be someone who cares about you if I didn't metaphorically hold your hand and say, we got to turn around and look because the gates are wide open. Right. Yeah.

It doesn't, I have left my house multiple times in the middle of the night and just go sit with people whose family members have passed away and it's with a team of people and it's part of a job or it's to sit in hotels and whatever. Okay. So I've done that. I, so many times I can't even count. I pride myself on being available for my friends 24 seven, three 65 and for people in my community. If there ever was a moment when my wife said, let me see your phone.

Well, she wouldn't have to do that because she's got my code and she can look anytime she wants. Right. And I don't have a history of cheating on my wife. I have a history of being an idiot. You see what I'm saying? Like, like every, every variable you told me, where was your best friend's husband? Apparently from what she has told me, he was upstairs with their youngest trying to get him to bed. And she just really needed a corkscrew to open a wine bottle.

I know. You can't be serious. I know. I know. I know. Oh, I wish I could laugh. I know. I'm laughing for you. I'm laughing laughter you don't have. I know. I know. I know you don't have it. I know you don't have it. And I know if you start laughing, you'll probably start crying. You won't be able to stop. I know. Okay. I know. So what, we're at that magical place.

Everyone I've ever sat with. Eventually we get to this one question. What are you going to do now? That's, that's what I've been asking myself every day. Okay. I know what I should do. I think. No, there's not a should. There's not a should. There's not a have to. There's just an is. Because if you, if you, if you say I should, then you're outsourcing, you're blaming, you're outsourcing your next move on something.

Some kind of cultural pressure or social pressure or blah, blah, blah. Right. What do you want to do? I mean, I wish I could just forget about it completely. You can't. You can sweep another rug. You're a grown-up. You get to do that. I've done that for 10 years. I know you have.

And if in this one of those moments, if you've got a serial cheater that it everything kind of stops like you do do like Star Wars. Right. And all of a sudden you go, oh, crap, this has been happening for a long time. Right. And by the way, there is a way to you can just Google it. There's a way to get deleted text messages that they stay on your phone.

I know I tried that. And that's when he, I, I tried to be sneaky, but while I asked him for it, he handed me the phone and I started to do that. That's when I saw the amount of text messages between the two of them, but he snatched it out of my hand before I could actually go through anything. Okay. And that's really, you get, listen, I know it's not, yeah, I'm not, I'm not going to make any judgments of you. I'm not going to beat you up. I'm just going to sit here with you.

You can live with somebody who's going to lie to your face and sleep with your next door neighbor slash best friend, who, by the way, she's not your best friend. Stop referring to her as that. Right. She's a neighbor who is sleeping with your husband. And or let's say they're not sleeping together. It's being so incredibly disrespectful of you and your marriage and your integrity. Just stupid. Right. Just dumb. Yeah.

You can live with that life and you can raise your two kids and let them see like, this is what love looks like. And this is what marriage looks like. Or you can make another choice. And I'm not, I'm not like the thought of becoming a single mom. That, that phrase is terrifying. And what that means economically and what that means decision-making. And if you have done anything dumb, every one of your texts is going to be made public too in court. Like all that stuff. I know. I get it. I get it.

But you have to choose to live in reality. And if you can't bear the weight of reality, which I get, I've been there myself, then you got to get somebody to sit with you and hold it with you. Right. And that's been the difficult part because he's telling me that my reality isn't the actual reality. I know. And he's, I mean. When you just said the thing about the corkscrew.

It's not on camera. All of the men and women in the booth, like they all dropped their heads. Like, oh God. I know. But listen. I know. If nothing else you get from this call, you're not crazy. You do have some choices to make. Thank you. You have some hard choices to make. But you're not crazy. Well, I appreciate that. So how can I help with you? I guess that was it. I mean...

I talked to her about things, and I realized the part of me that said, I just want to know what was in that text, but that won't really make anything better because then they'll just be waiting for the next shoe to drop. You know what's in those texts, Hannah. You know. I know. I just wanted to be so wrong. I know. I know.

Trust me, I would love for you to call and say, I think my husband's having an affair, and you rattle it off, and me go, I don't think that's it at all. I would love that. I would love that. And if that was the case, as a guy who would gladly, in the middle of the night, go over to my friend's house and help their wife out with anything they needed. Right. Not anything. Most things. I don't know. I get it. Yeah.

I would gladly, I would unthinkingly hand my phone over to anybody. Right. And I would also set up some pretty ridiculous guardrails, right? Right, yeah. And if I'd ever cheated on my wife, if I'd ever slept with somebody that wasn't my wife, I would have new rules that say I don't go over to people's houses in the middle of the night.

The funny thing is, is we had those rules. They sat on our refrigerator for years. He just forgot. Yes. No, he didn't. He never cared. He never cared. I know. He never cared. I know. Will you just sit with me for a minute in that? Yes. Yes. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I, in the same way I'm asking you to live in reality until he decides to sit down and be honest with you. There's not a lot of

co-creating what happens next, you're going to have to move on your own. Right. Right. If he decides to sit down and say, all right, here's a deal. Um, but until he decides to be honest, he's not going to be on. I mean, what does he even say when he looks you in the eye and says, you can't see my phone? Like that doesn't make any sense to me. Here we go. You're looking for something. You're going to be a detective. Here we go. Yes, I am. Show me your phone. Why do you back away there? Um,

- I didn't physically take it from him. That's the only thing I didn't do. I mean, I did actually say the word, "If you don't show me your phone right now, we're done." - Yeah, did he laugh at you? - He didn't laugh, but that's when he hadn't deleted it at that point, and then after that, an hour later, he was like, "Well, I deleted it." - Okay, you've heard me say this a million times on the show, behavior's a language. What did he tell you? This is over. - Yep.

He called your blog. Cool. This is over. Yep. And you're the one that doesn't want to hear what he just said by deleting the thing you said. If I don't see it, I I'm out. And he's like, cool. Delete. I call. Yep. It's true. Do you have somebody you can call? Yes. You have somebody you can sit with in your local community and be completely a hundred percent honest. Yes, I do. I will be available to you every step of the way. Call back anytime.

Okay. And you know, like I do, the next while is going to be awful. And it's, it will be, it will be insane to expect someone who has no character, has no integrity, who hurts you with his dishonesty and then makes you feel crazy for it to suddenly treat you with dignity and respect as your marriage, as y'all figure out what happens next. Right. Okay. Yeah. He heard you. If you don't show me this, this marriage is over. Cool. Delete.

Mm-hmm. You're right. I just didn't want to see it. Yeah. But I know it. I'm so, so sorry. That's all right. I think it is. I mean, this is what I need. I need somebody to just say, here's the mirror. Look at what you're saying. You know that you're not crazy. Yeah, you're not crazy. You're not crazy. Listen to yourself. And you heard it. I mean, you heard yourself when you said it. Like, you're not crazy. I'm heartbroken with you. I'm heartbroken with you.

And for everybody watching this on YouTube, I'm going to ask you to be really kind to her in the comments. When you're in the fog of this and you don't want to believe it, it's so much easier to come up with wild stories to not have to deal with everything I know is now in ash. So I'm going to ask people in the comments, be supportive and be kind. It's hard to say these things when you're sitting in it. And right now, jokes and grenades are not going to help.

What's going to help is like, we're with your sister. I hate it. I hate it for you too. Or this happened to me also. Hannah, call anytime. I'll walk alongside you in any way I can. And I'm going to recommend that you talk to somebody today, whether that's an attorney, whether that's a close friend, find somebody and be completely 100% honest. And from that seat, that choice to choose reality, now you can figure out what we're going to do next. And nobody can make that next move for you, but you. I'm so sorry. We'll be right back.

Get your copy today at johndeloney.com.

All right, we have a pretty rad update to share. This letter is from Megan, and Megan was on the show a few months ago. Megan from Canada. Here's what she writes. Hey, Dr. John, it's been a few months since we spoke.

I took your advice and started following Dr. Becky on Instagram. I also bought her new book. I think it's called Good Inside. And me and my husband have been reading it together. We've been doing our best to follow her strategies, and we've been noticing a huge difference with our kids. It doesn't stop the kids from having tantrums, but it gives us a roadmap for us to help them walk through it. Awesome. Awesome.

When we were on your show, I'd recently finished your new book, Building a Non-Anxious Life, and you told me that I can't give from an empty cup. I'd come to realize that as well from reading your book. As a result, I've made a regular practice of doing gratitude and feelings journal. I've also made it a point to move my body regularly and begin to eat better. I also started watching The Minimal Mom with my good friend, Don Madsen, who I just think the world of, to figure out how to get my home in order because our stuff was definitely making me feel anxious. I've gotten rid of bags of stuff.

I also came to realize how lonely I'm feeling, so I've taken the steps to reach out to acquaintances that I've already had. I've made monthly get-togethers with them, and I'm being open about what I've got going on in my life. Thank you so much for your advice and your help. I'm doing my best to build a non-anxious life, and I feel much more at peace. Megan, everybody listening, this is when I say you gotta do the hard work. That's what this is.

I got to go find an expert like Dr. Becky Kennedy to learn about the chaos in my kids' lives and how I can better show up for them. I got to go find an expert like Don Mattson with the middle of mom and learn, okay, the psychology and the identity around my stuff and how do I just begin to dig in and get rid of some of this stuff because it's all the clutter that can make me anxious. And hey, I picked up your book and I realized I'm lonely. I've got this. This is what the hard work looks like.

And Megan, you're doing it slowly, but surely. And I love this. I feel much more peace. I'm so proud of you. I'm so, so proud of you. And for everybody out there who feels overwhelmed, it feels like my kids are out of control. I got too much crap in my house. My finances are out of control. My relationships, I'm lonely. This is what this looks like. I'm going to seek the information, right? I'm going to get with the right people, but then I'm just going to go start doing it.

I'm just going to start doing, I'm going to get rid of bags of stuff. I'm going to start having monthly get togethers where I'm just going to say, here's how I'm doing. And if you don't want to be in my life, you get to choose that. But I'm just going to start being honest. I'm going to stop trying to perform for everybody. What you're going to find is like the great C.S. Lewis says that friendship, the definition of friendship is, oh, you too? Megan, I'm proud of you. Thanks for riding with us and thanks for being honest and vulnerable on the show. And

And more importantly, thanks for making these changes in your life. Everybody listening, you can too. I love you guys. We'll see you soon.