How Do I Voice My Needs in Relationships?
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Coming up on the Dr. John Deloney Show. I know my value as a child of God, but for some reason, I always think everyone else's problems or goals are more important than my own. We told you that you, like what you feel and what you want and what you think doesn't matter. I was sexually abused as a kid for many years by one of my cousins.

What up, what up? This is John with the Dr. John Deloney Show. I'm so grateful that you are hanging out with us today. We're talking about relationships and dating and marriage and your mental health, your emotional health, all of it. And if you're new to the show, I don't normally sound this handsome. Is that the way you would say it, Kelly?

Well, I can't say much because I sound pretty much the same. We sound like two old smokers. Yeah. Like on a park bench feeding the pigeons. Like living in South Florida. Just angry. Yeah, smoking four packs a day. We look like catcher's mitts. Just our skin. Yeah. Like a leather rawhide. Not looking great. We're both a little bit under the weather. You are always above the weather because you're wonderful.

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And my promise is I'm going to sit with you. We're going to figure out what's the next right move. So let's roll out to Washington, D.C. and talk to Christine. What's up, Christine? Hi, how are you? Awesome. How are you? I'm good. Thank you for having me on. Of course. What's going on?

Okay. So my overall question is how do I overcome my habit of people pleasing and learn to value my own worth and desires just as much as the people around me? And I can give you some kind of background. Back it up. I've been dating my boyfriend for over a year now and it's going really well. We are each other's like best friends in our relationship.

Yeah.

I just couldn't name it or figure out where it was coming from. But the other night, we started chatting about our future plans together, and eventually it got pretty emotional. And he told me that he's been getting very frustrated because he sees me continually putting his desires and goals and even every little small thing above my own. And essentially, he said that he's been dying for me to push back more and to voice my opinions and to challenge him more.

And it was kind of like this big light bulb moment for me. And I realized I've been feeling resentful. I'd gotten into this habit of always shoving down every, like my own needs and making his needs the end all be all. It also really just hit me how many times I got frustrated with him and then talked myself out of it saying, talk myself out of saying anything because I ended up thinking I'm being unreasonable or blaming myself or whatever. So,

So I really just want to work on this for the sake of our relationship and also just for the sake of myself as an individual. There you go. I'm glad you added that second part because you were like, I need to help my people pleasing so that he can be better. You're going to say that. I was like, how bad is that in there? Good for you. And also for context, I'm Catholic. We're both Catholic. And deep down,

I know my value as a child of God, but for some reason, I always think everyone else's problems or goals are more important than my own. So I wanted to ask your advice. I appreciate that. Who taught you that? You're going to ask that. So I have an incredible family, but as a child, I was... Hold on. Christine, I'm going to interrupt you a little bit as we go, okay? Because here's what I want to do. I want to add some abrupt...

intrusions into these scripts that you run. Okay. You have such amazing, um, scripts that you have just that are on loop in your mind. And I can hear him as you're talking. Um, we're best friends. Everything is perfect. Except when we talk about the future, we got really emotional and he was angry and I realized I'm shoving my frustrations down. I have an amazing family except for the time. Right. So I want you to stop, um,

My guess is, before you even talk, my guess is the way you have learned to navigate life is to make sure everything is shiny and where it needs to be and that everybody is, you're the peacekeeper extraordinaire. Right? Yes. And if everything's just where it goes and if all the sheets are washed and folded and if everything's on the chart on the fridge, everything works out in the end.

And how old are you right now? Uh, 24. Okay. If it hasn't already, you're just waking up to, uh, you can do everything right and everything can still fall apart. Yes. And that's a scary, anxious proposition for somebody who's a peacekeeper.

Yes. Or the game of whack-a-mole that you've been playing your whole life gets way more complex and chaotic, right? It really does. Okay. So tell me about growing up. Who told you that you, like what you feel and what you want and what you think doesn't matter?

Yeah, well, it's pretty obvious. It's pretty heavy. I was sexually abused as a kid for many years by one of my cousins. And yeah, it was essentially like a brother to me. We were all very, very close.

And yeah, I didn't really tell my parents. I could write a whole... We could sit and chat for many days about this whole story. But yeah, I didn't tell my parents until much later. But this is what I meant by how great my family is. They've been so supportive. And my parents have so made sure to tell me that...

It's not my fault. I'm not responsible to heal the family. You know, they've been incredible. And yet I have still felt this like intense burden to make sure everybody else is okay. And I've been to therapy. I did MDR therapy. And I just, I still, I've always felt this like,

I don't know, just like guilt and trying to make sure everybody else felt okay. Even though like, yeah, even though I was the one with, you know, this intense thing happened to me and I always felt like everybody else is,

Dealing with it was worse than what I was dealing with, which is crazy saying out loud. But yeah. And so I had to take a wild guess. I think that's where it comes from. I don't know that that's a wild guess, but yes. So let's just, let's just pretend that's, that's it. Okay. When you are the chief secret carrier of your family, you can't let anybody know. Right. Yeah. Yeah. And that's hell.

Yeah. Because you sit at a kitchen table with people that you know love you. And it sounds like your parents, parents often, not often, yeah, often don't get that right. And yours did, right? When you finally told them, they said, I believe you. Did they go to war against this guy?

Yeah, it's very complicated, but very much so. And they were 100% on my side. And oh my gosh, they've been my biggest cheerleaders. They're great. So that tells me that you spent a big chunk of your childhood sitting at a table, completely disconnected from the safest place in the world. Yeah, yeah. And you've learned to operate and make sure nobody knew.

Yeah. And it was always this intense kind of shame secret. That's right. That's right. Because the thing that if somebody actually knew you, and this is what's so evil with a kid is they think if people actually know me, everything I know and love goes away. So the best gift I can give the family is to,

put all of me in a jar and throw me into a big hole, right? So no one can ever find out. And again, that thing kept you safe while you were repeatedly dragged back into hell by a cousin. And then you've got this guy 20 years later, 10 years later, 15 years later, that looks at you and says, I want to know all of you. And your body starts screaming at you. Don't do that again because last time that got us hurt. And yet that's the only path forward, right? Yeah.

Yeah. So we can go through a bunch of therapeutic gymnastics. Are you at a place now where you can think about what happened and your body doesn't go right back there? Yeah, the EMDR totally kind of rewired my whole brain. So I can talk about it super openly. Okay. But yeah, there's definitely... Can you feel it? ...the side effects. Can you feel it? Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, for sure. I know in my personal life, I got very good at talking about things, but that allowed me to keep everything at arm's distance. And so I never really healed until recently. Hmm. Hmm. I hadn't thought about that. Maybe, maybe that's a little more accurate. Yeah. There's the, the, the, the cognitive part, the talking part, the thinking about it part is one piece, but until your body can process it, it can, it can metabolize it.

it continues to fight underneath the surface. And it's real disorienting because you're trying to connect with the person in front of you and you know you want to connect and your body knows what it feels so good to connect. And yet it won't let you because it's still fighting this other war. Does that ring true? Yeah, it definitely does. So sometimes trauma response, and I don't want to minimize this, what you went through is one of the evilest traumas you can go through.

Okay. And I know it's like, no, I went and did this thing and now it's over. That's not how that works. Generally speaking. Okay. The only word I can give you moving forward besides to consider going back and saying, okay, I can think about it. I can talk about it.

but I have got to do some, the nerd word is you got to go do some body work. Okay. Whether that's Arthur Levine style stuff. If you're in DC there, they can, there's going to be some trauma practitioners that will work through it. Here's what it looks like. Often they'll make you lay down or sit down and they'll sit behind you or right next to you. A good trained therapist will. And when you go back to wherever you go back to,

They walk with you back through hell, except this time you got somebody with you and they might put their hand on your shoulder. They might hold your hand. They might put their hand on the back of your head, but they walk with you and they teach your body. You are safe now. Okay. Does the thought of that get your heart beating faster again? A little, but at the same time, I think my therapist kind of did. It was maybe a little different. But y'all are there? Yeah.

Yeah. Okay, cool. Yeah, I haven't gone to therapy in probably a couple years now, but it was for like over two years. Yeah, we did like a lot of that. Possibly sitting back with a professional now a few years later and saying, okay, I've found myself at peace in neutral space, but now I'm entering back into a relationship that's going to get physical at some point if it's not already. And those same things that I crave are also those same things that my body put GPS pins in that says you're not safe.

Okay. Does that make sense? Yeah. The word I'm going to give you is practice. Okay. And here's what I want you to tell your boyfriend. He sounds like he's a pretty amazing guy. He is. He really is. He's great. Is he your forever guy? Gross. Yeah, I think so. Gross. All right. So you've got this forever guy. So he's going to do life with you.

And I heard this said the other day I was working with a couple and is one of the most amazing lines i've ever heard I looked at the guy and I was like i'm gonna steal that line um His his girlfriend looked at him and said i've got so much Baggage and he said well you told me you wanted someone to do life with and this is life So i'm here to do this with you and I just remember going. Oh my gosh, you're the greatest man What a great line, but here's the thing um

I want you to sit down and say, what wasn't safe when I was a kid, I'm gonna practice as it becomes safe as an adult. And so I want you to tell him, here's my hand sign for I'm gonna speak my needs.

and here's what's going to make me feel safe. And it might be I need you to hold my hand for a while while I tell you I don't like it when X, Y, or Z, or good God, you've got to brush your teeth, or when you don't put your dishes in the dishwasher, it makes me feel less than, whatever the things are. I don't want to live in a house like this. I want to live in a house like this. I want you to practice it, and then here's the deal. If you can be weird with me, if you can hold his hand or put one hand open on the table,

And put one hand on your chest when you feel this, because I want you just to metabolize that feeling of angst. I am saying what I need out loud. I will not carry any more secrets. I'm not a secret carrier anymore. And his peace is his responsibility. Yes. Your peace is your responsibility.

Okay. And all you can do is practice this stuff, but it's going to feel awkward. It's going to feel weird and you're going to feel isolated and you're probably going to get angry. You're probably going to cry sometime. All those things are right and good and, and exactly as they should be. Yeah. Is that fair? Yeah. Can you do that? Give me a thing that you want to tell him. Um, what does they want or a need that when you think like, Nope, not going to say it. What is it?

Sounds small, but I hate that he plays everything by ear and doesn't plan out things. All right. So here's the way. When you sit down with him, here's the way we're going to say this. I don't feel safe when you tell me we're just going to figure it out as we go. A way you can love me is to give me a plan for this weekend's trip. Okay. Where are we going to go? Where are we going to eat?

By the way, when my wife did something similar, I said, all right, well, we're going to eat and we're going to go hang out and then we're going to probably eat again and then we'll go to like a show or something.

And it, I, that was my love. I thought that was me being like really on top of things. And she was like, where and what time? And I was like, whoa, slow down. Right. But man, what a gift that was. But it was different when she said, I get so mad that you're so lazy. You never plan anything. She never said that, but you don't plan anything versus a way you can love me is to tell me what restaurants we're going to eat at and what we're going to do.

Okay. Okay. It would really make me feel loved if we could make a budget together. Okay. Does that make sense? Be very specific with him in the ways that you need to need and want to be loved. Give me one more. Um, a more, a more complicated one. Oh gosh, you're going to laugh at this one. But, um, I think, um,

I probably want to get married sooner than he does. Um, no, not really. Why not? That's, that's kind of what, yeah, that's what kind of started this whole argument a little bit was, I don't know. He could tell that I wanted to get married sooner and he's like, tell me what you want. And I just, I'm so scared of putting pressure on him and making him feel like, I don't want to like force him into anything obviously, or I don't know. And, um,

Yeah, I just, it's scary. And I feel like I'm going to scare him away if, I don't know, if I put pressure on him. Have you told him that? I don't know if I have. Okay. I want you to tell him exactly what you just told me. Okay. But that's hard. But you also know the hell that is carrying secrets. Yeah. Yeah. And we're done with that, right? Yeah, for sure.

I want that to become a core part of who you become, which is I'm not carrying anybody's secrets. It's not my job. Okay. I'm going to be honest. And the best way I can show up and love somebody is to let them know how they can love me. And maybe this guy's worried about scaring you. He don't want to move too fast. Right? He's scared. And you end up in this weird dance when you both want the same thing, but you don't know how to say it. Right? But good on you for healing. I do think it would be good to, even if you just go for a couple of sessions, to

to circle back and say, I'm in love. Oh, gross. I'm in love. And I want to practice speaking my needs out loud. That'd be awesome. But also, I don't even know. I don't know. I don't know if you need to go back to a therapist. It sounds like you seem to practice it with this guy and you've got a guy that you can practice it with. And disagreements and fights and arguments is part of the deal. That doesn't mean y'all's, your relationship isn't strong. In fact, it's pretty amazing. And the fact that he said, I want to know you, what you want, what you're thinking, and

Tells me he loves you and he wants to know more of you. You've got to practice letting yourself be seen and known. I'm telling you, kid, the world is going to be a better place. Thanks for the call, Christine. We'll be right back. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp.

So my wife and I were meeting the other day about the back-to-school madness that is about to be on us. We've got my travel schedule, her work schedule, our daughter's new school and clothes and forms to fill out and all these online portals and my son's sports schedule and he's got to have shoes every two weeks because his feet won't stop growing and how are we going to pay for all this and on and on and on.

And when we step back and look at our schedule, it's so packed and we haven't even put in the things like exercise, date nights, counseling appointments, church and holiday trips and big home projects. And these are the things that make life worth living. And I listened to y'all. This is your life too. And here's what I've learned. When it comes to taking care of me, my family and my work, I have to begin with the things that matter most and the things that keep me well and whole so I can wade into the chaos and be sturdy and present and strong.

you too. So as you're planning your upcoming end of summer and fall plans, make sure you don't skip date nights, don't skip regular exercise, and don't skip your regular therapy appointments. Yes, therapy can be hard work, but it can also help make the rest of your life possible.

When it comes to therapy, I want you to consider calling the team at BetterHelp. BetterHelp is 100% online therapy staffed with licensed therapists. It's convenient, it's flexible, and it's suited to fit your schedule.

With a good therapist, you can learn things like positive coping skills, how to set boundaries, how to deal with all the chaos going on in your life, and how to be the best version of yourself. In this upcoming season, make sure you put on your oxygen mask first. Never skip therapy day. Call my friends at BetterHelp. Visit betterhelp.com slash deloney today to get 10% off your first month. That's betterhelp, H-E-L-P dot com slash deloney.

Oh man, I was just talking about some people from Kansas in the lobby and here we go. Let's go out to Kansas City and talk to Trey. What's up, T? Hey, Doc. How's it going? Partying, man. What are you up to? I wish I was. I do too. I'm not. I'm at work. What's up, man? Oh, hey. So I just got some life situations going on and seeking some help. All right, let's do it. Recently went through a divorce within the last nine months. How long were you all married?

10 years together for 16. We were high school sweethearts. Is divorce final? Last round of paperwork has been turned in a week ago. So no, not yet? Not technically yet. Okay. Why'd y'all get divorced, man? A number of things. The

Big answer would be I was emotionally unavailable. I was kind of going through the motions, not putting in the effort, focused more on my career and all that. Pretty standard, I guess. Okay. All right. So you all got divorced after 16 years together. All right. Go for it. Yes.

got divorced, um, put myself back out there, did a lot of healing and stuff over those last nine months, therapy and everything, and put myself out there, see if I still have the chops. Oh, gosh, did you meet the one? I, yes. No, you didn't. Oh, my gosh. Yeah. No, you didn't. It's a happy love story. Yeah. Oh, gosh. Met an amazing woman. Uh, we've spent a lot of time together over the last few months. Uh,

she's very open to me being open about my divorce and past issues. You're not even divorced yet, dude. I know. I know, man. I know that that's the hard part too, is navigating. That's just your other, your other marriage. Um, yeah. Yeah. Jeez. All right. So how can I help? So I guess the fact that you're crazy. I, well, I'm crazy, but, uh, you know, love makes you do crazy things, right?

So I would be very careful calling what you're in love. And I know I'm going to go for it. Well, you don't understand. Now I do a hundred percent. I understand. No, no, that, that's, that's one dynamic of it. That's scary is, you know, this is first thing after divorce, after being in a long marriage, um,

Trying to navigate that infatuation stage, but I also have done my best to keep a level head and look at things logically, but also stay in tune with my emotions and how I feel. That's been difficult to navigate. I'm trying to just do a bouncing act, basically. But my big fear is having my past, the mistakes I made before, fall into this

new relationship. And so do you see how you're literally doing that exact thing right now? I can see that. The same infatuation you had with your work, your same avoidance of reality is just replaying itself in a different, in a different shirt and sweatpants right now. Okay. Or let me ask you this. Like, what is it about Trey? Do you like Trey? I do now. Okay. I didn't for a long time. Tell me about that. I, I,

I was always the guy that had to have his stuff all put together. I was, you know, the star sales guy, the, you know, good husband, thought I was. And it was kind of a facade. And I spent a lot of time breaking that down and getting back to the things I enjoyed, being happy with myself, being able to have fun with myself. Okay. And enjoying my time alone. Okay. But you don't get divorced from 16 years from your high school sweetheart over because you work too much.

There's definitely more to it. What really happened? Did somebody cheat on each other? No. No infidelity. We still co-parent amazingly. I mean, friendly. But 16 years with a ride-or-die high school sweetheart, like you get in a room and you say, we got to figure this thing out and rebuild it. And you all said, nah, let's just go our separate ways. I tried. Why didn't she rebuild with you? Maybe I tried too hard. What does that mean? I was willing to...

do anything and everything, but the damage had already been done. And there's, I'm only telling my side. Of course, I know. You're a respectful guy. I got you. I got you. Yeah, there was a lot of her traumas that she went through, and we did finally get to a point mutually where it was like, we got married young. We thought we did what we were supposed to do, but after looking back, it was a long time coming. Years in the making.

So here's probably the most important thing I can tell you. Y'all made a choice in this thing and y'all made a choice out of this thing. And I won't even use y'all anymore. I'll just talk to you. You can look back and say, yeah, we were young and yeah, we were dumb and yeah, we've all those things from the past. But what matters is in the present, you called it. Yeah. And the reason that's important because as you move forward, these things are not inevitable. They're choices.

It's kind of like the political discourse right now. It's like, well, this is just going to happen. And I keep saying it doesn't have to, though. The economy doesn't have to crash and burn. The political discourse doesn't. We make choices every day and we can just be like, well, here we go. You can take your foot off the gas. All I have to say is I want you to continue to take ownership of

Not that, yeah, we were young, we were dumb, we thought we had to, but then we didn't. No, we just stopped. And here's why that's important moving forward is the infatuation stage, especially after like a 10-year marriage to somebody when you're really young, because you're still really young, right? Are you in your early 30s probably? Yeah.

Yes, sir. Yeah, you're young, dude. You're at that place where you've got enough money to actually have a life. And you've got time now because you've got a co-parent. And you're probably in pretty good shape still. And now you're dating. It feels like you've won, right? Yeah. Yeah, that infatuation stage is powerful. But it sets you up on yet another track that I want you just to take ownership. I want you to be in the driver's seat of your own car. That's all.

Yeah. And this, I promise you, I promise you this will fade. And the question will be when it fades, when that power, when that allure, that desire, that like, when it fades, who are you going to be? Who's your new relationship going to be? What are y'all going to build together? Does that make sense? Right. Yeah, absolutely. And I don't want to be fun ruiner.com dude. I'm all about love. I love it. Um,

I just always like 10, a 10 year relationship plus 16. Like that's a, that's a death.

Yeah. Right. That's a death. And it's a really to say like, no, I did my healing. I'm all healed up. Nine months is quick turnaround for a lifetime. You see what I'm saying? I'm I'll definitely admit I'm not fully healed. I still deal with, you know, some abandonment issues. That's a big fear of mine right now is, you know, what if, what if things change? What if things turn around? Uh, we've, we've both been open with, uh,

our feelings. I mean, it's, that's uncharted, uncharted territory for me being open and vulnerable, which has been amazing. Um, I'm, I'm enjoying it. Good, good, good. Okay. So how can I, Oh, but I just, I, this is my stock answer. Whether you're one of my close friends or someone I just met, I always tell people don't start dating until your marriage is over. Like until it's, you're holding that last piece of paper and y'all are nine months into this. So, I mean, you're going to do what you're going to do, but

Anyway. All right. So how can I help like directly? I, that's the loaded question is just navigating those abandonment issues, those fears of the future mixed with the infatuation and the feelings now just navigating that. I don't know if there's tools or stuff to read or, or what it is. Cause I, I know how I feel. Did your ex-wife say she's out?

Yes. Okay. Have you fully internalized that yet? I would say, I think so. Okay. Cause that's a, that's a big deal. It was, I fully accepted it. And the therapy over the last nine months and all that helped. I also took a couple months where didn't work. My, the place I worked for was amazing during that time. They knew I needed some personal time and it was the shut yourself in the bedroom and, uh,

grieve and deal with it, accept it. And no, I know you can't speed up the process, but, but, but you can't, but you can do the next right thing. Right. So what's, what is that for you? Who are you becoming? I honestly, I feel like me again. I feel like I did when I was in high school, I'm doing things I enjoy, uh, spending time with my family. I don't want you to be a high school kid. I want you to be a mature adult male. What does that mean? Like, what do you, what does that mean? That's,

That's a great question. A lot of guys get divorced after 10 years and they try to reclaim their high school, like, San Diego, San Diego High School football rules. Let's do it. Oh, yeah, definitely not that. I know, I know, but like, it's like, we're going to have fun again and we're going to, I want you to have joy in your life and I want you to have hobbies and things that you love. I want you to go fishing and not golfing. Never golf. You sound like a golfer. Don't golf. But like, I'm definitely not a golfer. I'm totally playing. But like, whatever it is, the things are, right? I want you to do those things, but

Who are you going to become? Or as James Clear says, who's your new identity that you are reverse engineering habits into becoming? Yeah. Who is that? That's a question I need to start working on an answer for. Well, just tell me. You're 37 years old. You're in your early 30s. You're 31, 33. How old are you? 33. Okay. So in four years, you're writing a letter to the 37-year-old you. What's that letter going to say? Proud of you for making it through.

And that's a survival letter. That's a survival letter. Who are you going to become? Dear 37 year old Trey, I can't believe you. Just happy, enjoying life to the fullest. I know I'm giving kind of blanket statements. Okay. I want you to spend some time being specific. What does that mean? Dear 37 year old Trey, I can't believe how insanely generous you are.

Dear 37-year-old Trey, I can't believe you went back to school and got a master's degree in X, Y, and Z, and now you're a nurse practitioner. Okay. Dear 37-year-old Trey, I can't believe you're still a salesman and you're still treating people with such dignity and respect that people will not buy anything from anyone else, even though your product's more expensive.

I like that one. Dear 37-year-old Trey, I cannot believe what an amazing dad you've turned into be because you never talk on your cell phone when your kids are around. You don't let your kids play travel sports, but you backfill it by taking them kayaking. You see what I'm saying? I want you to be very specific and begin to reverse. Okay, what do I have to do right now so that that's true? I can do that. Does that make sense?

Yeah. Um, and dude, I'm proud of you for, for grieving because I pushed on you a little bit. I'm proud of you, man, for actually taking the, it's, it's tough when you find out that I've just kind of been doing my life and by just doing my life, I hurt somebody that I cared for deeply for a long time. And then I try to go rescue it and they look at you and go, I'm out.

Right. And then you create this counter narrative, which is like, no, no, no. We like mutually agree. No, you didn't. Cause you'd still be married if she had said I'm all in. Right. That's true. It sucks. It hurts. And so the, the, you can't go back and fix that. The thing you can do now is to move forward and say, okay, here's what work is going to look like. Here's a vulnerability is going to look like, here's what love is going to look like and enjoy the infatuation part, man. It's a fun part to be in. Yeah. It just fades. Is it,

I know it's uncommon for that to last, but not, not the infatuation phase, but those next relationships. I think that scares me too. Cause it's, it's been great. It's, it's been, but why does it have to be more than that right now? Other than just great. It doesn't have to. I think I get too obsessed with the future without also giving myself clear direction on how to get there. And in the mental health world, we call that anxiety. That's fair. It's an inability to be present. And that's what cost you your last relationship.

That's true. See what I'm saying? Like how it's just recreating itself. Yeah. Getting inside my head too much and not enjoying it. And that's where, here's what I'm getting at. Not to sound all esoteric. When you make a, I'm a person who, dear 37-year-old me, I can't believe you're still in such great shape. I can't believe you've been such a good steward of your body. Good for you. I can't believe you take care of yourself and X, Y, Z.

When you do those things, that's important. But what's more important is just doing the thing every day. Right. And so I can't believe 37-year-old me, I can't believe that you wrote your daughter a letter every day or every week for four years that you're that kind of dad. That's amazing. All right, cool. Now I got to start writing letters, drawing pictures, whatever that means.

Um, and it's the daily activities. And for guys like you and me who spend a ton of our time in our heads, worrying about things and adding extra burden and pressure to the current moment, because we're trying to hedge something in the future that usually stems from guys that don't like themselves. And so it's you coming to terms with or practicing. I like myself. I'm a good guy.

I would do anything to have that thing over again, and I can't do anything to have that thing over again because she left. And so every day, every minute moving forward is going to be better than it was. And that means I have to fill in the blank. Right. And maybe you have a little journal for problems for future Trey. All right. And you can – is she the one? I don't know. Let's put that in the problems for future Trey category.

Okay. I like that. Or am I going to have a million dollars problems for future trade? What current trade can do is make 10 sales calls a day, right? That's what, that's what current trade can do. See where I'm going with it. Yes, sir. Out of your head and onto the paper and off the paper and into action. I can do that. And yes, you're playing on house money right now. Like you're the statistics are not in your favor and it only matters if you're playing a statistics game.

Okay. I recommend you just begin to reimagine and re-enjoy life. And when those waves of grief hit, just own them. Yeah. And that stinks. And this new person, she's pretty cool? Yes. Very cool. Cool. Very, very fortunate. Okay. Ask her how you can best be kind to her. Okay. And be careful about using the L word this early. Just don't. Let it marinate. Enjoy your life.

And to go back and completely contradict everything I just told you, don't go on another date until you have final paperwork, until your other marriage is completely over. I'm kind of old school on that, but I just think it's right. If you're going to get divorced, wait until you're totally divorced. Thanks for the call, my brother. I wish you guys the best. But more importantly than wishing you guys the best, I wish you the best. And I want your adventure to discover Trey and to honor Trey.

and thereby honor your kids and your ex-wife as a co-parent and any future people you're going to tangle up your life with, that you can honor them because you're whole. That starts with coming up with an identity, coming up with a plan, putting that plan into action. You're the mantra. We'll be right back.

All right, I want to talk about Halo. It's an app that I use just about every single day. So we're here at the end of summer trying to fit in that last minute vacation, trying to figure out where all of our money went and trying to plan for the start of school. And it's chaos. It's chaos. It's chaos in your life and it's chaos in mine.

And it's this season when it's super important to make sure you double and triple down on your exercise practices, your counseling, your relationships, and your spiritual health. And if you're a person of faith or if you're just curious and you don't know anything about this faith, prayer, whatever stuff, don't let your daily prayer or your meditation practices or your questions go unanswered or by the wayside. Don't let your still time with God go.

As things ramp up and get more and more chaotic, we have to choose to slow down and focus on the things that really, really matter.

And in addition to my conversations with my friends and my personal reading and journaling time, Hallow helps me stay on point with my spiritual practices. Hallow is an app that's easy to download right to your phone and it is packed with daily prayers, lecture series, meditations, music, stories, nighttime sleep programs, and more. Hallow is the number one prayer app in the world. And it's simple, it's super high quality, and you can personalize it based on wherever you happen to be in your spiritual life.

I use it on my drive to work, when I'm sitting in front of my red light, sometimes when I'm out walking my dogs, and I even listen to some of the music when I'm writing. Hallow has a journaling feature for your own personal reflection. I could go on and on. It's got everything. Here's what's really cool. This month, Hallow has special guests each week walking us through the lives of some incredible historical saints, learning more about their life, their faith, their story, and ultimately, their surrender to God's call on their life.

Hallow's Saints in Seven Days series dives deeper into the lives of these prominent saints, exploring their journey to sainthood and how it relates to our own lives. Here's the deal. My friends at Hallow are giving you three free months to try all of this right now. That's 90 days to experience the joy and peace that this experience can help bring to your life. It's totally free to try it out. Go try it. It can change everything.

Go to hallo.com slash Deloney today for three free months. That's hallo, H-A-L-L-O-W dot com slash Deloney. All right, let's go out to the right side of DFW in Fort Worth and talk to, well, well, well, my Michelle. What's up, Michelle? Good morning. How we doing? Good morning. Doing good. How are you?

I'm running a scam called a podcast. It's amazing. You should get one of these. It's so good. Oh, yes. Yes, yes. So what's up? Okay. So my husband and I have a question for you. Our daughter, our oldest daughter, is married. We absolutely adore our son-in-law. He's amazing. But... But... So good. I love Texas. But...

I think he's just darling, but he's a little bit of a murderer. All right. So what is it, Michelle? No, we really do love him. It's just this concern that we have. So they're struggling big time financially. They have our first grandbaby, and they're

Our daughter, they want her to stay home. Our son-in-law, he lived at home until he was about 27 and had never worked a full-time job. Oh, boy. Worked part-time pretty much after they got married. And...

Kind of has a full-time job now, but just not a lot of income at all. And so our question is, how do we...

His parents don't see any concerns with any of this. We parented very differently. They're awesome people, also just different. But we just don't know how to handle this as in-laws. Do we step in? Do we say something? Do we stay quiet and just let them figure it out and struggle through it? How do we approach this?

You're so great. Like you're literally one of the coolest people I've talked to. Will you do me a favor? Yes. Okay. I want you to close your eyes. Okay. And I want you to see a whiteboard full of Texas nicisms. Okay. They're amazing. So great. We love them. I want you to see that whiteboard and then I want you to see it magically wiped clean.

Okay. And you're staring at a stark white whiteboard, okay? Yes. Now open your eyes. I don't want you to make a fist in your right hand, and I want you to put it right in the center of your chest, okay? Okay. I want you to tell me what you feel about watching your daughter raise this new little baby with a husband that doesn't make any money, who's a nice guy but does not know how to work, does not know how to provide, and doesn't even have a picture for what that looks like.

Does it scare you? Does it break your heart? Does it make you sad? Does it make you angry? What does it feel like? It feels like all of that. I mean, I'm definitely scared for them. Dude, your voice just went down a whole octave. I love it. All right, now I'm talking to Michelle. I'm not talking about the lady with the live, laugh, love thing in her kitchen. I'm talking to Michelle. All right, so tell me about it.

Yes, it does scare us a lot. Not us. Not us. He's not on the phone. Your husband's on the phone. Okay. It scares me. It frustrates me. I do get angry about it. Tell me about the anger.

Well, I think the anger is just in... She graduated, went to college, graduated with her degree, worked and went to work full-time, was making more money than him, and then is really longing to be a stay-at-home mom. And I want that for her. But he says he wants that for her also, but at the same time,

has lots of free time to work, extra hours, and just chooses not to and says he wants to get a different job, but then says he wants to stay at his current job, just goes back and forth. And there's just no drive to just, I'm going to go out and kill it and do whatever it takes to make sure my family is fed.

And that's frustrating to me. There you go. And I'll tell you, you have a right to be frustrated. You have a right to be heartbroken. Okay. And avoiding that creates that weird Southern family awkwardness at the kitchen table because everybody feels it, but nobody says it. You know exactly what I'm talking about, right?

Yeah. You probably had that same thing with your parents. It's that weird, like, oh, geez, everybody's knowing it and everybody's thinking it and everybody's feeling it and nobody's saying it. So you getting in touch with that, I think, is right. It's good. Okay? I want a lot of stuff. Like, I want my life to look a lot of certain ways. And I always go back to behavior as a language. And so I really don't look a lot at what people say anymore. I just look at what they do. How do they pay bills?

Well, some of them, they're not. And so they're getting backed up on a lot of that. And I know we have helped a little. My parents have helped a little, but we just feel right now like we need to pull back and let them handle that. My good buddy is one of my best buddies out here in Nashville, Henry Cloud, a psychologist, kind of a mentor. And he says often,

If you want people, especially younger people, to change, they have to get this thing called problems. There's never going to be an incentive to do anything differently because we don't have to. Right. Have they invited you into this? I think the hardest thing from this show and the other show that I co-host, the hardest thing is listening to people when they love a family member.

And that family member is doing something destructive to their life and they haven't been invited into that conversation. It's tricky because our daughter does. And so we hear her tears and her sadness. Why won't she talk to her husband? She has. And that's kind of where we are is she has just...

She's the one who does the budget. She does the bills. So like I said, they were raised very differently. Hey, hold on. I don't care about the raising. They're here. Okay. They're right now. Yes. It's just the way they view finances are very differently and the responsibilities of that. And so her sadness of knowing what needs to happen, um,

Breaks our hearts. He does talk to us about it respectfully, but he doesn't want to talk about it at all to us. Yeah, he's probably deeply ashamed of it. I think so. And he should be. He's going to reach out to his in-laws to help pay his bills just because he won't work. That's embarrassing. If he was a school teacher who was driving Uber on the side and delivering pizzas on Saturday night,

And he got in a bind and his front tires blew out. Make that phone call. I'm okay with that. But when you're just sitting at home and you, I say, make that phone call to in-laws and say, Hey, I just, this happened and we're in a pickle. And you look and see a guy that's working 60 hours a week and he's doing a job that is noble that unfortunately doesn't pay enough. Like I get that, but yeah, he should be embarrassed that he's just sitting at home going, Oh man. And his wife's weeping in the next room, calling her mom to say help.

But the challenge here is that's your daughter's problem to solve. And until she says, I want to stay at home and you, your inability and lack of movement and desire to make a better life for our family is forcing me to go back to work. I need you to hear me say this husband, your laziness and your lack of motivation and drive to build this family with me.

is robbing me of the one thing that I wanted. And I told you about that when we were dating until she can say that and speak that out into the world, he's going to continue bebopping around because he has no problems. Or until she says a lack of, it's a lack of fidelity for you not providing for your family. Some people cheat with another romantic partner. Some people cheat with their jobs. Some people cheat on a, with a golf course.

He's cheating with just oafness and laziness. He's not providing for his family. That's a lack of fidelity. And until he understands the tenuousness of him continuing to be married, he's just going to keep bebopping along. The biggest problem is you can't have that conversation with him. Your wife, I mean, your daughter has to. Okay. And I think it's fair to say, daughter, until you put this all on the table,

And then give the infamous or what, because there has to be an or what to some of these statements. Or maybe she's like, no, I'm never going to leave him. He's my husband until death do us part. Then she needs to say, here's what you are doing to me, husband, by you coming home and crashing and playing video games on the TV. Here's what you're doing to me. Until she can do that. Yeah.

all of your side conversations with her, you slipping them $300 to pay their light bill or whatever, like all those kinds of things are just, they just are what they are because she's not addressing the core issue. And if you and your husband reach out to them and say, when y'all are ready, we'll help. We'll do what we can do to help. Like we'll help you get a job. We'll put a word in for you at this place or what. I don't know how y'all want to help, but, um, but unfortunately until y'all are asked into that conversation, you just become overbearing helicopter parents.

And we definitely don't want to be that. And we aren't that. I know. You're trying so hard, but you're watching your grandbaby, right? Right. Yes. Totally get it. Totally get it. At the end of the day, your daughter has to have this hard conversation with him. Has she been that direct with him?

She's been pretty direct. I don't know that she has been that direct as far as, I mean, you know, at one point it was, you know, by the end of this month, I need you to have an additional job in the extra hours. But I don't know that there was an or what. What is the or what that, I mean, she loves him. Of course she does. He doesn't love her back like she loves him, period. Because he's not providing for his family.

Okay. Behavior is a language. What's he telling her? I don't care what you think. I don't care what you feel. I don't care what you want. Right. I want to watch TV. That's what he's telling her every day of her life. Then at some point it becomes not about the money. It becomes about, oh, this is how little you think of me as your wife. I need to step out of this situation because I'm becoming somebody that I don't want to become.

I'm becoming an angry, resentful, bitter wife because you are a husband who lacks integrity and fidelity. And I don't want to raise my kid in this environment. And so maybe what you provide is a week or two for her to step out and come have a safe place with the little one while her husband decides if he wants to continue to be married to her. Okay. But us... I mean, what's the other option? Not confronting him, but...

Even my husband or I or us together, it's not wise for us to sit down with him and just say, this has to stop. How old is your daughter? She's 22. Oh, my goodness. How old is he? 30. Oh, geez. Yeah. No, I mean, I don't ever think that's it. Your daughter's got to have this conversation, but your daughter's very, very, very young.

She is. And we talked about this a lot before they got married, you know, and it just, um, we kind of gave her a heads up that, you know, what you marry, it usually, a lot of times that doesn't change. Marriage is not going to miraculously fix that. It doesn't, but I'm a radically, radically different guy than the man my wife married. Thank God.

Oh, sure. I'm a radically different guy than the guy was six years ago. Radically. Yes. Right? And so I thank God. I'm glad. And so marriage is amazing, but it's a platform by which you can jump off of. It's not the thing that fixes you, right? Right. It's the vehicle that gets you from here to there, but it's not in and of itself magic. And in fact, it can be constricting and suffocating if you don't have two people all in. Right. But he's 30.

Yes. He married himself, a woman a decade younger than him that was earning the money while he just sat around and did nothing. Right. What does he do for a living? He's in ministry. Oh, good God. I feel called to this. Yes, that's it. Exactly. Exactly. And that's... So stupid. People using God as their...

You're going to get me in trouble, Michelle. I'm going to stop talking. I get so... And here's the thing. Poverty is not the thing. Working for the least of these and not making a bunch of money isn't the thing. Right. Right.

Especially when your family is not paying the bills. That's it. It's a lack of fidelity and integrity. It has nothing to do with being a minister and not making a ton of money and choosing we are going to have a one-car, old, old, old Corolla family because this is who we are and who we're going to serve. I'm all in on that. All in on that. That's not this situation. Right.

This is somebody who's using this quote unquote call and this quote unquote easy job as an excuse to not go out and provide for his family. Yes, I would be enraged if I was you. And your daughter went and did a very adult thing and got married and had a baby with this man. So she has linked him forever. So until your daughter decides, I'm going to draw a line here and say, this is the life that we agreed on. This is what fidelity looks like for me.

Or she has to make peace with the fact that she wanted to stay home and it's simply not going to be possible because of the type of ministry and life that they've chosen to do. Okay. Exactly. And we've told her that, that at this point, her staying home may just not be an option. It's not. They don't have any money. Out of necessity. Exactly. Right. They don't have any money. Right. Yeah. And by the way, the Apostle Paul was a tent maker and then he preached. Mm-hmm. Right? Mm-hmm.

Yes. There's a biblical precedent for go get a job and then do your ministry, right? You don't do both. Yeah. I'm going to get in trouble. So here's the thing. Yeah. Not your place to talk, but I do think you have a, your daughter's very young. I think she, you have a place where you can speak wisdom into her, into her life. But I want you to balance that with don't, don't ever pit your daughter versus her husband.

No, for sure not. If you force her to choose you or her or her husband, she's got to choose him. She chose him. Yes. If she has to choose herself over somebody who is actively not participating in a marriage, that's a different conversation. She has to choose safety and integrity and fidelity. That's a different story.

Okay. So it is okay for us to continue conversations with her because we don't ever want that. And we make sure she knows he's her first resource. You go to him first, but it is okay for her to talk to us just asking for wisdom or whatever. Yeah, I always think that wisdom, but it's when it becomes a gossipy thing.

I need to tell you something bad that my husband did. Because here's what that does. That puts you guys in a position to always have to protect. Right? This may be right, wrong, or indifferent. I have a relationship with my brother and my sister that we don't talk negatively about our romantic partners. Because I don't want to put them in a position to have to defend me when I'm just in the middle of a regular old marriage spat.

Right. Because they have to go to war against, well, actually they'd side with my wife most of the time, right? But like, I don't want, they don't deserve that tension. If I have something negative that I need to work out with my wife, I go to her or we go to a counselor or we go to a couple of the friends, couples that we've both have in our lives that would hold us both accountable. But I don't put my family members in a position where they have to choose which side they're on. That's unfair of me. Right.

And a 22-year-old stuck in a house where her husband doesn't care anything about her at all and a little baby, that can be really isolating and terrifying and lonely and scary, right? Mm-hmm. Yes. And mom wants to come in and rescue, but she's got to get adult friends and she has to get adult mentors and she's got to get her own counselor. Mm-hmm. Because in a weird way, he's running to his mommy and daddy for money and she's running to her mommy and daddy for emotional support. Neither of them are acting like adults.

Mm-hmm. You get what I'm saying? Yes. And so maybe the line going forward is, this house is always a safe place. You pick up, you knock on the front door, that door's always open for you and for that little baby and for him. We love him. You said earlier at the beginning of the call, we like the guy. He's a nice guy. Always welcome home. And you call day or night, I'll always answer the phone. I love you. You're my daughter. Always be here for wisdom. But until you have these hard conversations with him,

Um, I'm not comfortable talking about him anymore and his deficiencies or the things you wish he would do or whatever. I want to be your mom. I don't want to be your, I can't be your marriage counselor. I want to be your mom. I don't want to be your marriage mediator. That's not my job. I can't do it. I'm too, I'm too biased against you and this new grandbaby. You know, you need to go find a counselor. You need to find a couple of friends that are a little bit older than you. Other women that maybe even are your age, mom, but that will provide some third party neutral wisdom there. Um,

And if husband is truly called by God to serve this church for less than a livable wage, happens all over the planet, good. He has to also be responsible for the other side of that ledger, the one that helps feed his family. And that means I just know ministers who they work real, real, real hard so they can go do their ministry job.

They don't look at their young wives and young babies and say, ah, that sucks to be you. But I'm going to watch TV. That's enough to get me fired up, Michelle. You're a good mom. Thank you for loving her. But I think it's time that they get some problems that they have to solve some of these in their house and that you begin to back up from the marriage counselor. Just tell your daughter, I want to be your mom. I want to be your mom. We'll be right back.

What's up, friends? Dr. John Deloney here. Tickets are selling like madhouse for the money in marriage getaway happening over Valentine's Day weekend in 2025.

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All right, we're back. So what do I do on social media now, Kelly? All right, this one you posted just the other day, and I like this one. No way. Yeah, believe it or not. I believe it. We get to decide who hurts our feelings. Full stop. Other people can frustrate us, make us angry, be annoying, and invoke memories. But we get to decide who hurts us. Yeah, that comes from my friend Lisa from a grad school class when I was learning how to be a counselor.

And we were talking about having, uh, I wrote about this one of the books. We talking about seeing a client for six months and the client comes in and says, you're terrible at this. You suck at being a therapist. You've taken my money. I tried your little stupid exercises. They don't work. And I remember saying to the class, like, oh my gosh, that would devastate me. And her response was, oh, John, they don't get that. Like, what do you mean? And that was, that began a class discussion of, man, you get to decide who you give access to. Um,

And I'm pretty good about it. But even I recently, it was the other day, somebody wrote in and was like, I can't believe who were, um, I'll never listen to you again. You were making fun of poor people on an, on the other show that I co-host. Like you make, you were making fun of poor people. You're laughing at their play. And I was, it was devastating Kelly because my whole, my whole reason for being is sitting with hurting people. And I,

I said, surely I was being sarcastic or silly or something. And it was like, if you really care. And it took me a minute to realize, hold on, hold on. That person doesn't get a vote. And does that mean I'm not going to learn from the criticism? No, dude, I get criticized all the time. And a lot of people are right. And I have to change what I'm saying and what I'm thinking. But I let that person hurt me. Like, you're a loser, John. You shouldn't be doing it. It was really deep and heavy. So all I have to say is, yeah, making that decision. And by the way, for most people, it should be four to six people.

If you're married, it should be your spouse. It should not be family members most of the time, maybe one brother or one sister. But ask yourself, who have I given permission to hurt me? And for most of us, we give way, way too many people access to our souls, and it's a good exercise to limit that. So who hurts you, Kelly? I think I do that pretty well as far as my husband has that power.

You don't. Nope. And I mean, I'm not saying that sarcastically. But the internet thinks I do. Right. But you don't because I haven't given that to you. Right. And then I've got a very small corporate core group of girlfriends that they have that power because I've given that to them. All the things I'm not saying. America, you're watching me get wiser in real time. Love y'all. Bye. Bye.