62: Cancer for Sale: When is it enough?
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This episode is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Most of you listening right now are probably multitasking. Yep, while you're listening to me talk, you're probably also driving, cleaning, exercising, or maybe even grocery shopping. But if you're not in some kind of moving vehicle, there's something else you could be doing right now. Getting an auto quote from Progressive Insurance.

It's easy and you can save money by doing it from your phone. Drivers who save by switching to Progressive save nearly $750 on average. And auto customers qualify for an average of seven discounts. Discounts for having multiple vehicles on your policy, being a homeowner and more.

So just like your favorite podcast, Progressive will be with you 24-7, 365 days a year, so you're protected no matter what. Multitask right now. Quote your car insurance at Progressive.com to join the over 28 million drivers who trust Progressive.

Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates. National average 12-month savings of $744 by new customer surveyed who saved with Progressive between June 2022 and May 2023. Potential savings will vary. Discounts not available in all states and situations. This is an ad by BetterHelp. What are your self-care non-negotiables? The things you know make you feel better even when it's impossible to make time for them.

Like that workout you try to squeeze in between kids' activities, work, and everything else you have going on, and before you know it, it gets pushed to tomorrow. Sound familiar? But it's the moments when you feel like you have no time for yourself when those non-negotiables are more important than ever. Those are the things that keep you strong, healthy, motivated, and prepared to take on everything life demands of you. So why not make therapy one of them?

BetterHelp Online Therapy makes it easy to get started with affordable phone, video, or live chat sessions you can do from anywhere, and the option to message your therapist between sessions if anything comes up. Never skip therapy day with BetterHelp. Visit betterhelp.com slash darkhistory today to get 10% off your first month. That's betterhelp, H-E-L-P dot com slash darkhistory.

Hi friends, I hope you're having a wonderful day today, whatever day it is. Is it Wednesday? Is it Thursday? Maybe it's Tuesday, I don't know. My name is Bailey Sarian and I'd like to welcome you to my study where my friends hang out and they don't talk to me, they just ignore me. And to my podcast, Dark History. This is a chance to tell the story like it is and to share the history of stuff, I don't know, maybe you never thought about, right? I didn't.

So sit back, relax, and let's talk about that hot, juicy history, Goss. Okay, listen, last season,

A lot of poop jokes showed up in our episodes, like too many poop jokes. I was like, you guys, the poop jokes, no more. But with that being said, I was sitting on the toilet a couple of months ago, you know, the commode, the porcelain throne fit for a queen. And it was that time of the month. I was bleeding. It was time to get my oil changed, as I said.

It was not a good day for me. So I'm bleeding. I don't want to be there. I have cramps. I got a headache. I'm pissed because why not? Nothing's going my way. So a lot of the times when I'm bleeding, I just keep the box of tampons next to the toilet because...

Look, it's gonna be here for a while. I'm gonna be using that shit, right? Convenient. I could grab it. It's right there. Awesome. So I'm doing my business. Grab a tampon out of the box, as one does. I'm kind of just sitting there. And I look at the tampon and it has like a message on it, on the wrapper.

on the outside. It was like motivational words. And I was like, oh, okay, cute. And I was reading it and it said, it said like, you go girl. I was like, okay, I'm not even kidding about this one. It said, stretch yourself. That one I had a little follow-up question with, but okay. And then it also said like, kill it. Like, it was just,

Look, it was like little fortune cookie messages, but on the tampon. And the reason I'm saying this, well, first of all, I was triggered. I was like, what do you mean? Like, what the hell is this about? Who is this helping? Okay, this is not, I don't feel motivated because of my tampon. I just ruined a full set of Egyptian cotton bedsheets. I'm not gonna reach for the stars because my tampon told me to. No one was like, yeah, my life sucks.

But then I read that tampon wrapper and I really turned it around. Tampons are complicated. Anyways, so what I'm getting at is that I got myself on Google as I do

That's how I Google. And I looked up like who the hell made these tampons? Because fuck these tampons. All of them have these stupid little motivational speeches on them. And like, what the hell? Who did this to me? Bet you some old man thought it was a good idea. And sure enough, the corporation behind them was...

Not great, not shady. I mean, like this wasn't even the worst thing they've ever done. It was far from it. And now, you know, I love talking about shady companies. I mean, we've done them a lot here. So much that if I ever disappear...

We have multiple suspects. Okay? That ain't gonna stop me today. Because the subject of today's episode has been linked to some seriously dark stuff. I mean, they've been allegedly exposing babies to toxic chemicals and allegedly taking advantage of America's elderly people and motivating us with our tampons.

Welcome to the story of Johnson and Johnson, a family company. Oh, to circle back to the tampon that said stretch yourself, it was a sport tampon. So I'm pretty sure that they were trying to say like motivate you to stretch before working out. But what a weird thing to put on a tampon. Stretch yourself?

Anyways, back to Johnson & Johnson. So our story starts all the way back in the 1800s. Robert Wood Johnson was born in Carbondale, Pennsylvania in 1845. When he was 16 years old, the American Civil War broke out. Yay! Yay!

And now Robert was too young to pick up a bayonet and fight, but his older brothers got involved fighting for the North. While his brothers were off in a battle, young Robert got into an internship at his uncle's pharmacy in New York. And this is when he started experimenting with something called plaster. Plaster is basically a sticky mixture that starts wet and hardens when you spread it on something. Sounds kind of hot. You can mold it to any surface. It's kind of like papier-mâché. Yeah, it's like when you make a pinata.

Think of it like that. So what the hell is Robert doing with it at a pharmacy? Well, the plaster that Robert was playing with isn't for the workplace pinata. It's actually medical plaster. Oh yeah. It's a special type of plaster, which was great for covering cuts and wounds on the body or even used to apply medicine directly on the wound and keep it there so the wound itself would heal.

So plaster would come in very handy during and after the Civil War because at the time, one of the best ways to stop an infection from spreading to the rest of the body was to amputate. Just cut it off. No arm. Because doctors at the time didn't really understand germs. Remember, we had this conversation before. Germs, they didn't know. What? What's up? Germs, I don't know her. And they don't know how to stop them. So they would just cut people's arms off and stuff.

You got a bullet wound stuck in your thigh? Well, sorry. Bye leg. You will be missed. And the doctors were very good at this. So good that they could complete full amputations in under three minutes. Yeah, three minutes or less. You could get rid of your arm. You know what else takes three minutes? Rice-a-roni. The San Francisco treat. You perv. Anyway, people were kind of sick of their only choice being to chop off their limbs. Like there has to be a better way, right?

Right? And this is where young Robert has a light bulb moment. He's like, what if I made a pinata?

I'm just kidding. No pinatas were made. Remember that medicated plaster he's been like working with? Well, he was like, hey, this would actually be better than an amputation. And these people could probably keep their limbs and stuff. So Robert heads to New York City as a salesman, pushing his plaster and some other drug products. While on the Big Apple, he meets a pharmacist named George Seabury. And the two of them, I guess they just really hit it off. They're giggling. They're sharing feelings. They're braiding each other's hairs.

living, laughing, they're loving. And so the two of them are like, "You know what? We are so great at being friends. We should go into business together." So they do. And the year is 1873. And you know what they say? You should never go into business with your friends. Actually, I think I heard that once. I don't know if actually I've ever heard that, but you probably shouldn't, right, Joan? I wanna go in business with you. You're a diva.

Oh shit, we're in business right now. Oh fuck. Anyways, I'll tell you. People loved what these guys were selling. So their main product that they were selling was the medicated plasters. And because they were so good at creating these things, it didn't take long for their company named Seabury & Johnson to be known all over the world for their healthcare products. And for three years, they were crushing it. Just for three years. But then in 1876, everything...

Okay, so there's this thing that happens. The World's Fair, it rolls into Philadelphia. Now at this time, the World's Fair, oh bitch, it was the shit. Literally everyone went. I'm talking like millions of people all over the place. I'm talking like 35 different countries would also come in and participate.

in the fair. It was the best place to show off new inventions and a lot of the things that we still have today actually came from the Philadelphia World Fair. For example, the sewing machine, the telephone, the portable bathtub was a thing. I'd use it. Oh, you know who else was there? Popcorn, remember?

I remember. Popcorn made an appearance there. So yeah, the Philadelphia Fair was a huge deal. And like this was the place you wanted to be to share your product. If you weren't an inventor, aw bitch, you had to go here. Okay? So it was even like the largest gathering of doctors in American history. Johnson and Seabury were like, we gotta go. It's gonna be a great place to network. I mean, there's a bunch of medical supplies there that people are selling. There's a bunch of doctors there. I mean, hello? It's

perfect place to like meet, network and sell his fricking plaster. So they go, they're doing it. They're making connections. They're researching, they're hanging out. They're doing, they're getting popcorn. Johnson hears a talk given by a man named Dr. Joseph Lister. Okay, so this Joseph Lister guy

Lister changed the game when it came to surgery. He was, he was like Jesus. Everyone was telling everyone that surgery should be sterile, you know? Before Lister, people didn't really even care about keeping things clean during surgery. And on top of that, it was said that like doctors didn't even wash their hands after surgery or in between surgeries. They were just raw dogging it. So Lister, he goes on a stage and he told the world that surgeons should be sterilizing their instruments.

their hands, and maybe they should even be sterilizing like the skin of the patients. Hey, maybe we should be sterilizing things is what this Lister guy was saying. And everyone was like, wow, this is groundbreaking information we're hearing. And there was one guy in the crowd who thought like, yeah, this is definitely the future of medicine.

And this guy was Mr. Johnson himself. Side note, Dr. Lister, he's the guy who invented Listerine, the mouthwash. Yeah, wild, huh? But that has nothing to do with Johnson & Johnson, but that's him. Lister, his talk inspires Mr. Johnson because if sterile surgeries were gonna sweep the nation, then all those doctors are gonna sterile their supplies, right? So Johnson sees an opportunity, but tensions between Johnson and his partner Seabury, they started to like,

They just were bumping heads. Seabury was like, "Let's stay in our lane and just do the plaster." And Johnson was thinking big.

He's like, "We need to mass produce these sterile supplies." Things started to get ugly. Johnson believed his partner was holding him back. The two can't agree on how to manage their company, so they break up. They go their separate ways. Goodbye. Well, this was actually a blessing in disguise because now Johnson and his two brothers team up and they decide to form their own family company. Oh, that's what they say. You shouldn't do a business with family. Well, this is a bad example. They're huge.

Did you tell me that, Joan? Why do I believe everything you say? Anyways, Robert Johnson gathers his brothers and tells them all about his ideas about medicated plaster and like sterilization. Boring. He's like, we're just talking about boring stuff. And he's like, guys, I've got ideas. Something could be huge. And the brothers are like, fuck yeah, you do, bro. I like that that was the voice I went with. You guys.

So in 1886, the three brothers officially go into business together and the world was introduced to the amazing, the magical, the fantastic Johnson and Johnson. But I have a question. Just one question. Why was it not Johnson and Johnson and Johnson? I think we know why. Johnson, Johnson, Johnson.

it's too much this episode is brought to you by progressive insurance most of you listening right now are probably multitasking yep while you're listening to me talk you're probably also driving cleaning exercising or maybe even grocery shopping but if you're not in some kind of moving vehicle there's something else you could be doing right now getting an auto quote from progressive insurance

It's easy and you can save money by doing it from your phone. Drivers who save by switching to Progressive save nearly $750 on average. And auto customers qualify for an average of seven discounts. Discounts for having multiple vehicles on your policy, being a homeowner and more.

So just like your favorite podcast, Progressive will be with you 24-7, 365 days a year, so you're protected no matter what. Multitask right now. Quote your car insurance at Progressive.com to join the over 28 million drivers who trust Progressive.

This is an ad by BetterHelp. What?

What are your self-care non-negotiables? The things you know make you feel better, even when it's impossible to make time for them. Like that workout you try to squeeze in between kids' activities, work, and everything else you have going on, and before you know it, it gets pushed to tomorrow.

Sound familiar? But it's the moments when you feel like you have no time for yourself when those non-negotiables are more important than ever. Those are the things that keep you strong, healthy, motivated, and prepared to take on everything life demands of you. So why not make therapy one of them?

BetterHelp Online Therapy makes it easy to get started with affordable phone, video, or live chat sessions you can do from anywhere, and the option to message your therapist between sessions if anything comes up. Never skip therapy day with BetterHelp. Visit betterhelp.com slash darkhistory today to get 10% off your first month. That's betterhelp, H-E-L-P dot com slash darkhistory. So, Johnson & Johnson, they're official.

Now, they didn't waste any time. Faster than you can amputate a leg, Johnson & Johnson was getting stuff done. And not just like small little stuff either. One of the first things they did was create the world's first mass-produced sterile surgical supplies. They're like...

Get with that, bitches. Now that was huge because guess what? You can now have surgery and not die from an infection. That's all we wanted as people. It's not just that, but since it was mass produced, this meant that everybody could have it. So it wasn't just for the fancy rich people who could afford clean surgery tools. Nay nay. Boom. Right off the bat, they already changed the world, okay? And honestly, good call from Mr. Johnson leaving the Seabury guy.

You know? Mm-hmm. Good for you guys. Doing it. Okay, so growing and they're like, what else? What other bangers can we come out with? They expanded into ready-to-use surgical plasters and adhesives, aka the Band-Aid. Oh, they are dropping hit after hit. Yeah, that Band-Aid, bitch. That Band-Aid. It was invented by Johnson & Johnson. But again, they're not gonna stop there.

Oh no, they gotta come out with another one. It's called the first aid kit.

Okay, so they come out with another banger. It's that first aid kit. Okay, now the first aid kit is iconic because it's going to help with the railroad workers. So if you watch the Gilded Age episode or listen to it, I'm sorry. You remember we had mentioned that like everybody was getting hurt on the job. Well, Johnson & Johnson came out here and was like, hey, what if we gave everyone like first aid kits? So if someone got hurt, they could put a Band-Aid on it. I mean, they were coming out with some band-aids.

groundbreaking things that we can rely on as humans, really, like things that are gonna help us, keep us alive. Icons. You know what's funny? This is a side note about a Band-Aid. You always have one Band-Aid box and that's it. You buy one and it lasts forever. You don't even have to buy one.

to buy band-aids. They just show up at your house one day and you're like, how the hell did you get here? I don't know. Like the other day I needed a band-aid because I fell in a bush. If you watch my Instagram story, you saw I fell in a bush. It's a long story. But I scraped up my knee real bad and I just like had a band-aid and I was like, oh, I know where it's at. It's underneath my bed on the left side.

towards the wall. And guess what, bitch? It was. Band-Aids, like corn, always there for you. Not sponsored. Anyhow, so they're crushing it, okay? And they accidentally stumbled upon the product that would be their...

Jesus. Okay, this is gonna be the product that goes on to be the best-selling product of all time. It would take Johnson & Johnson to the next level and make them that iconic household name. And not only that, it's gonna help them start raking in the cash, baby. And you know what happens when you get more money?

More problems.

It's easy and you can save money by doing it from your phone. Drivers who save by switching to Progressive save nearly $750 on average. And auto customers qualify for an average of seven discounts. Discounts for having multiple vehicles on your policy, being a homeowner and more.

So just like your favorite podcast, Progressive will be with you 24-7, 365 days a year, so you're protected no matter what. Multitask right now. Quote your car insurance at Progressive.com to join the over 28 million drivers who trust Progressive.

Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates. National average 12-month savings of $744 by new customer survey who saved with Progressive between June 2022 and May 2023. Potential savings will vary. Discounts not available in all states and situations. This is an ad by BetterHelp. What are your self-care non-negotiables? The things you know make you feel better even when it's impossible to make time for them.

Like that workout you try to squeeze in between kids' activities, work, and everything else you have going on, and before you know it, it gets pushed to tomorrow. Sound familiar? But it's the moments when you feel like you have no time for yourself when those non-negotiables are more important than ever. Those are the things that keep you strong, healthy, motivated, and prepared to take on everything life demands of you. So why not make therapy one of them?

BetterHelp Online Therapy makes it easy to get started with affordable phone, video, or live chat sessions you can do from anywhere. And the option to message your therapist between sessions if anything comes up. Never skip therapy day with BetterHelp. Visit betterhelp.com slash darkhistory today to get 10% off your first month. That's betterhelp, H-E-L-P dot com slash darkhistory. So in the 1800s, there is a new mineral discovered. Oh, yeah.

A mineral called talc.

That's the softest mineral ever found. And because of this, it could be ground into a powder called talcum powder. And pretty soon it's discovered that this powder had a ton of really good uses. Look, I could sit my fat butt right here and spend the whole episode just listing what talcum powder is in. It's in everything, bitch. It's in mascara, it's in crayons, it's in gum, it's in all of your makeup. Yeah, it's in everything.

But again, I won't get into that. Now people realized that talcum powder was the best at reducing friction and keeping things nice and dry. Kind of like a dry lube. I know it's confusing to think of, dry lube, but it prevents friction, hence the lube, but it keeps you nice and dry, hence the dry.

It makes sense. Have you ever put it under your boobs? You shouldn't, but like it absorbs all that sweat, the inner thigh. A lot of guys use it on their balls, which I didn't know until like later in life. And I was like, why do you always have baby powder? I still kind of don't understand how you guys do it. Like, what are you doing exactly? Are they just like smacking their balls with baby powder? Let me know in the comments section. I never really asked further questions. I just know it goes on the balls. Anyways.

So this seems like a godsend to Johnson & Johnson because around this time, people had some complaints about their signature product.

You know, the plasters. Now the plasters, I guess, could irritate your skin and leave you a little chafy. So Johnson & Johnson had this idea to send this talcum powder out to their customers who were getting the bandaid rashes. And they were like, use this. It's gonna work miracles. And boy, did it. People at home were like, wow, if this worked that well on my rash, it must work on other rashes like diaper rash. Oh yeah, huge problem.

Huge problem, always a concern. Back then it was like real bad. They didn't have any answers, you know? So somebody figures out that you can actually put talcum powder on a baby's butt and it proves to be super effective on diaper rash. And the customers were like, holy crap, this is groundbreaking information. Johnson & Johnson, heroes, icons, legends, you know? So Johnson & Johnson, they're like, holy crap, this is an opportunity for us to make a lot of money.

So they decided to start selling talcum powder to the masses under the name Johnson & Johnson's Baby Powder. And from the word alone, like this product is a hit. I mean, once women start talking like this product is stopping rashes on babies' butts and it's also preventing them from screaming and crying. I mean, people are losing it.

This is a godsend, you know? In 1913, Johnson & Johnson had a whole campaign aimed at women using the tagline, "Best for baby, best for you." And it worked big time. The brand was popular. It was thriving. It was everywhere. It was a staple in the house. Johnson & Johnson's living up to their promise to America to be like a family brand, just making people healthier. But lurking around the corner is a whole lot of drama, corruption, destruction, baby. Powder.

Turns out the main ingredient, talc, well, she's been hiding some dirty secret. This episode is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Most of you listening right now are probably multitasking. Yep, while you're listening to me talk, you're probably also driving, cleaning, exercising, or maybe even grocery shopping. But if you're not in some kind of moving vehicle, there's something else you could be doing right now. Getting an auto quote from Progressive Insurance.

It's easy and you can save money by doing it from your phone. Drivers who save by switching to Progressive save nearly $750 on average. And auto customers qualify for an average of seven discounts. Discounts for having multiple vehicles on your policy, being a homeowner, and more. So just like your favorite podcast, Progressive will be with you 24, 7, 365 days a year so you're protected no matter what.

This is an ad by BetterHelp. What?

What are your self-care non-negotiables? The things you know make you feel better, even when it's impossible to make time for them. Like that workout you try to squeeze in between kids' activities, work, and everything else you have going on, and before you know it, it gets pushed to tomorrow.

Sound familiar? But it's the moments when you feel like you have no time for yourself when those non-negotiables are more important than ever. Those are the things that keep you strong, healthy, motivated, and prepared to take on everything life demands of you. So why not make therapy one of them?

BetterHelp Online Therapy makes it easy to get started with affordable phone, video, or live chat sessions you can do from anywhere, and the option to message your therapist between sessions if anything comes up. Never skip therapy day with BetterHelp.

Visit BetterHelp.com slash Dark History today to get 10% off your first month. That's BetterHelp, H-E-L-P dot com slash Dark History. In order to have all the talc they needed for the baby powder, Johnson & Johnson had to mine it. I just imagine like Johnson & Johnson, like the guys, the owners like out there mining talc.

Yeah, but they're not doing that. Johnson and Johnson, they end up working with like a mining company or two. You see, when you find talc underground, you usually find something called asbestos right along with it. And here's the problem with that. Asbestos causes cancer. Yeah, shit. Asbestos can be found close by,

sometimes in the talcum powder. Back in the 1940s and 50s, scientists linked asbestos with lung cancer. So it's like, it's just a risky product is what I'm getting at. Now, a lot of times when people get cancer, they don't really know the exact cause of it. I mean, it's hard to track down the single source of the cancer. There are some exceptions like smoking and, uh,

And since talc was full of asbestos, it was pretty easy to track it back to talc. So Johnson & Johnson uses a bunch of talc in their baby powder. So it was up to them to make sure like, you know, that there isn't a harmful amount of asbestos in there. Everyone's putting it on their babies. But here's the thing. In the early 1970s, Johnson & Johnson was testing their talc product and found asbestos.

and some lab reports even called their levels of asbestos quote rather high end quote but not a big deal at this time because asbestos wasn't illegal at least like

Not according to the FDA, you know? But then in 1976, the FDA comes out and says asbestos is bad. And they were going to start telling companies how much they could actually have in their products. So you'd think Johnson & Johnson would tell them about their tests and report their asbestos levels. But of course they didn't. Because why would they do that? Because like, you know, they're a large corporation. What are they going to do? Be honest? No. They buried those reports and they just continued reporting.

Business as usual. I mean, like, do you really think a large company is going to do the right thing? You think they're going to be like, oh no, our product has asbestos in it. Guess we have to throw it all away. It's like, no. It's kind of like in school when like your teacher would say like, hey, you can grade your own test. Did anyone give themselves an F? Do you think Johnson & Johnson is going to give themselves an F? No, they give themselves an A.

Okay? They're like, "Yeah, we don't have it. We removed it all. It's gone. The asbestos, she's gone." And the FDA doesn't, they don't do anything about it. They let this whole thing slide. But even still, Johnson & Johnson buried all of the information about baby powder ever being linked to cancer or asbestos. And it wouldn't go public and blow up for like a few more decades.

Oh yeah. So after all this, Johnson and Johnson, the company, the big bosses, they were sweating, they were worrying, they were like, "Holy shit, that was close." Am I right? And this little hiccup didn't like stop them, you know? 'Cause they continued to dominate the market in the 80s, especially when it came to the everyday products that people were using. And another one of their products that was selling out everywhere, not only the baby powder, right?

Tylenol. Oh, shit, yeah, Tylenol. I love that shit, man. I take it when I got a headache, and then I don't have a headache. It's weird, okay? But Tylenol had been invented by Johnson & Johnson in 1959. It sure was, and it had ads everywhere, okay? One of their biggest ads was a commercial that described this product as, quote, the most potent pain reliever you can get without a prescription, end quote.

It was something that's been there for us in our best of times and at our worst of times. And something most of us probably still use today. And Johnson & Johnson knew that. Johnson & Johnson knew that this was a staple in our household. They saw how much people love them, some Tylenol, and they decided to up the ante. So they came out with a new amazing product in 1976. What was it, Bailey? Tylenol. Extra. Strange!

Like hit after hit after hit, right? Okay. If that's what you say. Well, good things can't last forever. And in 1982, something terrible happened. Something that would cause tens of millions of Americans to empty out their medicine cabinets and swear off Tylenol forever. Oh yeah. I'm talking about the Chicago Tylenol murders. What is this murder mystery makeup?

Almost, but not really. Because it all started in a small town outside Chicago on September 29th, 1982. A 12-year-old girl named Mary told her parents she wasn't feeling too well. Her parents were like, hey, no need to go see a doctor. I got some Tylenol right here in my medicine cabinet. So they give little Mary a few extra strength Tylenols and Mary went to sleep. When her parents went to check on her the next morning, guess what?

Mary was found in her room dead. Oh yeah. All she had was the common cold. Like what? How could this happen? It was a tragedy. And what was worse, nobody had any idea what the hell happened to Mary.

Poor Mary. Over the next few days, six other people in the Chicago area died under mysterious circumstances, just like Mary. But it wasn't until the FBI got involved that this fact came out. All of them took Tylenol just before their death. And later on, it would be found out that these Tylenol pills, they were actually laced with cyanide. Yeah, poison, okay? Someone was poisoning these people. Someone was aquatophoning people.

These people in Chicago. I mean, you're probably wondering, well, how the hell did it get in there? Did Johnson & Johnson know? What did they do? Well, you know? Well, Johnson & Johnson was not going to let this ruin the company, but the media already had been reporting on these murders. So Johnson & Johnson couldn't use their money to control the narrative like they had with the baby powder fiasco. But now people were terrified of Tylenol.

So Johnson & Johnson jumps into action and thankfully recalls 31 million bottles of Tylenol, telling people they could turn in their freaking bottles that might have freaking cyanide in it for a new bottle of Tylenol. And most people were like,

No, it's okay. Like, I don't want any more Tylenol. Thank you. So the value of the entire company dropped by around $2 billion because of all this. Yes, with a B. B. $2 billion because people are afraid they're gonna die. Get over it, you losers.

Just kidding. That's what they're thinking, Johnson & Johnson, not me. People were completely just losing faith in the Johnson & Johnson name, which honestly fair, right? So Johnson & Johnson knew that they needed to act fast in order to win their customers back. So they went to the people America trusts the most, the media. The media. The media. Johnson & Johnson was like, excuse me, us? Poison?

We would never. So Johnson & Johnson comes out and they gotta put the blame on somebody, right? And they're like, we don't know how this happened, but we gotta like win people back. So what do we do? They go to the public and they're like, listen, everybody, this happened because there was a deranged serial killer who did it. That was their reasoning. They just pointed the finger at a deranged serial killer. So essentially Johnson & Johnson's telling the people like,

It's some lunatic outside of their company who maybe was lacing the pills with cyanide. You know? I know what you're thinking at home because I was thinking it too. Like, wouldn't someone notice if their Tylenol bottle was opened and messed with? Well, the answer is no because safety seals weren't invented yet. So Johnson & Johnson actually takes full advantage of this. They restore everyone's faith by inventing the tamper-proof seal.

Seal, you get it? Come on, that's funny. I thought of that. Anyways, they come up with the tamper-proof seal. You know, that silver foil paper? It's like over the bottle, the top of the bottle. You have to like stab it open with a knife or something because it's childproof and you're like, I'm not a child, but I can't get any of this open. That, that thing. So that was invented. It makes people feel safe. It makes consumers feel safe.

And to everyday people at home, Johnson & Johnson seemed totally in control of the situation. They handled it well. People felt safe again. And after a rough couple of months, they were back on top. They had spent $100 million in PR and was on their way to getting their good name back. And honestly, that was the best 100 million they could have spent because quickly, Tylenol was once again, America's number one pain reliever. Like it really worked for them.

Anyway, bummer end to the story though, because the FBI never found out who put the cyanide in those Tylenol bottles, if the killer even existed, right? Although, plot twist, as recently as September of 2022, the case actually got reopened and they're taking a look at an old suspect. Should I do a murder mystery makeup on this? Let me know, thank you. Anyways, but they never caught anybody and like no one even knows if there was a killer. We'll see. Oh,

I just had an idea. I just had a light bulb moment. Okay, because recently in September of 2022, this was reopened, right? Didn't Johnson & Johnson just have like a big lawsuit happen? What if they're reopening it as a distraction? 'Cause they're going through another lawsuit currently. They've been going through lawsuits. Hmm. ♪ I'm gonna get murdered by Johnson & Johnson ♪ Or Nestle or Coke or the Banana Republic people.

I'm one of everyone's hit list. So this wouldn't be the last time Johnson & Johnson was put under the microscope after someone died using their products. And this time, the people who were affected? Grandma and Grandpa.

Not grandma. Grandpa, leave them out of this. Leave them alone. This episode is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Most of you listening right now are probably multitasking. Yep, while you're listening to me talk, you're probably also driving, cleaning, exercising, or maybe even grocery shopping. But if you're not in some kind of moving vehicle, there's something else you could be doing right now. Getting an auto quote from Progressive Insurance.

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Visit BetterHelp.com slash Dark History today to get 10% off your first month. That's BetterHelp, H-E-L-P dot com slash Dark History. So I think in order to understand this next part of Johnson & Johnson's journey, we need to talk about a woman named Jessie. In 1996, a 96-year-old Texas woman named Jessie Stagner died.

fell and broke her hip. Despite her age, Jessie was still with it. And even though she had begun showing signs of early dementia, her son was like, "She's in great shape. You know, she's doing so well." Anyways, after the fall, Jessie was taken to a nursing home in Austin, Texas, and things just took a turn for the worst. Even though her hip, she fell, remember? Hurt her hip. Her hip's doing better, but Jessie was acting really, really strange. And suddenly,

She could no longer speak and she couldn't even move. And her son was saying like mentally, she was totally out of it and no one knew what was going on. So they asked Jesse's doctor. Now the doctor explained that it could be like some kind of normal side effect from some of the drugs that she was taking. Well, unfortunately, like things never got better.

Shortly after, Jessie passed away from dementia, leaving her family devastated and wanting answers now more than ever. So her son asked the doctor again, like, what medicine were you giving my mother? And he told her that he was giving her a drug called Risperdal. And when Jessie's son looked into the medication, he was like,

What? Because Risperdal says right on the package, do not give this to people with dementia. This was an anti-psychotic drug used for people with severe mental issues. To Jessie's son, this wasn't making sense because she had no mental issues. But if this drug is sounding familiar to you, that's because there were allegations that Britney Spears' manager was grinding this drug up and sneaking it into her food to keep her quiet. I just had to throw that in there.

Mm-hmm, pretty hardcore. So when given to the wrong patients, the medication can cause people to just turn into vegetables and just not like be in control of themselves anymore. Some patients may even suffer difficulty breathing and swallowing, and it could even cause heart attacks, like the symptoms Jessie was showing. I mean, this was a serious drug only intended for patients who really needed it. So why the hell was a doctor prescribing it to someone who...

who slipped and fell. I don't know. Well, actually we all know why. For money. Thank you. Thank you. My job here is done. It's always fucking money. What are we gonna do about that? We need to start brainstorming. Risperdal was a Johnson & Johnson drug and some bad apples at Johnson & Johnson had a deal with some people at a pharmaceutical company

called like Omnicare. Pretty much the easiest way to explain it is like the more Risperdal they would give to older patients, the more money would go straight into the doctor's pockets. So they were getting kickbacks for pushing this drug onto people who didn't even need it. Prescribing this medicine went on for years in the 90s and 2000s and this turned out to be one of the largest healthcare fraud schemes this country has ever seen.

Oh yeah. It's very similar to what's going on with like the opiate crisis where a lot of doctors were just pushing it because they were making money off of the drug itself. Does that make sense?

I hope so. This is what companies like Johnson & Johnson are capable of. They can target people who can't stand up for themselves. I think the saddest part about this is that people tend not to ask questions when it has to do with our senior citizens, you know? Plus it's like, maybe you just don't know any better. They just like take lots of drugs. Okay, so the guilty Johnson & Johnson executives went to prisons for their part in that scandal, right? Of course not. Of course not!

Of course not. But they did have to pay up, which I guess does something. The federal government had been onto Johnson & Johnson for years. They always seemed to get away with getting any lawsuits, but this time there was tons of evidence. Poisonings, paper trails, payoffs. Using evidence they found, the FBI ended up building a case against the company. It showed that Johnson & Johnson's company, they...

they had another name to it, like a secret company, was paying doctors to prescribe unapproved drugs to treat the elderly and even kids. Yeah, so Johnson & Johnson made a fake company and under this fake company is where, well, I don't think it was fake because it was a company. They were pushing drugs on people. It's a fucking mess. Okay, so...

So the elderly and kids all over the country being put on drugs, they shouldn't have been. Just so some people can make some money. The evidence was so strong that in 2013, Johnson & Johnson, they just admitted guilt. They're like, yeah, we did that shit.

Sorry about it. Not only that, Johnson & Johnson ended up having to pay over like $2 billion in settlements. If you guys listen to my stories, you know that companies never admit guilt, rarely pay up, and almost never do both, like never. So for Johnson & Johnson to do both here, there must've been some serious evidence against them. And honestly, we'll never know because the documents are sealed. I think that's how you just get around it. If you want the document sealed, you just gotta pay everyone off.

and they could afford it. Once again, Johnson & Johnson had the resources to recover in the public's eye and just continue forward as they always do, as they're doing right now. When most people heard the name Johnson & Johnson, they think like the family company, baby powder, products you could trust, because even though all this shady shit was going down, they were good at covering their tracks. They had a squeaky clean image.

But karma finally started to bite Johnson & Johnson right on their powdery butt cheeks. Okay, so remember those tests back from the 1970s that showed there was asbestos in Johnson & Johnson's talc?

The one that they buried from the FDA? Oh yeah, so those come out in a groundbreaking article in 2016 and revealed to the public that certain people at the top of Johnson & Johnson knew about it for years, that their baby powder contained asbestos.

I guess there were scientists there who tried to like warn everybody, but their bosses just ignored it. We now know that Johnson & Johnson was testing their own products for asbestos, but their methods were a little questionable. Records show that the tests they ran for asbestos were purposely designed to fail. Asbestos particles are like really, really, really, really, really, really, really small. And they can only be seen with high powered, super fancy microscopes. And Johnson & Johnson, obviously, they got the money to get those things right.

but they didn't. Instead, they bought like some cheap ass microscopes. So you can see the asbestos. So when they told the FDA like, hey, we don't see any asbestos in here. Technically, they're not lying. They don't. They got one of those like Fisher Price microscopes things.

Johnson & Johnson being in charge of their own testing meant that they could make up their own rules, have their own loopholes, do whatever they wanted. So they came up with their own test. They decided they only had to test one teaspoon of talc out of every 20 tons. Just so you guys can really imagine this in your brain. 20 tons is like the weight of a full school bus.

So for every school bus of talc, Johnson & Johnson was only testing for asbestos in a teaspoon's worth. Yeah, I don't think the math is mathin' on that one, you guys. And sources showed that they still managed to find, quote, rather high levels of asbestos with their shitty microscope in only a teaspoon amount is concerning. Now, I'm no scientist, but that seems...

Not great. And the World Health Organization and plenty of other health authorities say there is no safe level of exposure to asbestos because even the teeniest amount can trigger cancer. But luckily for the Johnson & Johnson legal department, lung and ovarian cancer usually take years to develop. This meant that people would never make the connection between baby powder and cancer. Or if they did, it's like, how are they going to prove that in court? Do you remember those commercials?

Like, do you or a loved one suffer from mesothelioma? Contact the law offices of Sarian and Sarian. Darlene Coker was 52 when she was diagnosed with mesothelioma, a rare and deadly lung cancer. Darlene was a mother of two from Texas. Texas? They've got something going on over there.

Anyways, Darlene was a mother of two from Texas and worked as a massage therapist. When she got the diagnosis, she was devastated, but she was also extremely confused. Mesothelioma affected mostly men who worked in mines or shipyards where they inhaled asbestos. So it was like, how the hell am I getting that?

I'm a massage therapist, you know? So she hires a lawyer to help her figure out the cause. So her doctor runs some tests and finds asbestos and talc fibers in her lung tissue. And suspect number one is none other than Johnson & Johnson's baby powder.

Now, Darlene had used it for years on her daughters and herself, never suspecting this innocent product from a wholesome family company could be a killer. In 1999, Darlene became one of the first people to sue Johnson & Johnson for the cancerous effects of its signature product. A fucking beer powder. Somehow, and this doesn't even surprise me,

But Johnson & Johnson was able to completely avoid handing over any talc results during the trial. And this put sole responsibility on Darlene to provide proof. What's she going to do? Like take out a chunk of her lungs and say like, look, this talc matches your talc.

You know, it's just a fucking David versus Goliath case. And in the end, it ends up getting dropped. Darlene would pass away 10 years later, but her case would eventually save lives because it was the first to signal to others that this trusted product was potentially deadly. More people would come out of the woodwork with cancer they believed was caused by baby powder. The thing that's insane about this is that when you're diagnosed with terminal illness like lung cancer,

you might not even like bother trying to point the finger at what caused it. And even if you did find the cause, most people, you know, you don't have the money to like hire a powerful attorney. So the thousands of lawsuits that eventually are brought against Johnson & Johnson are probably just a tiny portion of all the people actually impacted by baby powder.

So like I said, all of this was very convenient for Johnson & Johnson. Even though reports showed they knew it had asbestos, their talc-based baby powder was sold, was still sold pretty much everywhere. They just kept letting people use it.

I don't know how they were sleeping at night. By the early 2000s, enough evidence is gathered by all the different cases put against Johnson & Johnson and their baby powder. And in 2012, they were sued by 22 people who alleged that the powder caused ovarian cancer. Now, Johnson & Johnson ends up losing the case and a jury awards $4.69 billion to the victims.

Oh shit, $4.69 billion, oh yeah. So you think, boom, case closed, right? Johnson & Johnson lost, their baby powder is done. Their baby powder is canceled. We'll never see that product ever again, right? No.

Of course not. Why are we here? You probably actually have some baby powder in your house right now, I know it. Yeah, I just predicted it. Go throw it away right now. In an internal email, a Johnson & Johnson executive referred to its Lethal-S baby powder as the company's sacred cow.

Meaning it's what like the company's most known for so they couldn't possibly take it off the market. Yeah, let people keep dying they won't know. But its sales were starting to take a hit so Johnson & Johnson had to do some quick thinking. Okay, they did a little market research and discovered that 60% of black women were using talc baby powder compared to just 30% of the overall US population. So it's like they double down on their marketing. They go after who their biggest customers are.

Johnson & Johnson goes around in Chicago handing out 100,000 gift bags containing powdered products at churches, beauty salons, barbershops, and other locations throughout Chicago. And they launch a radio campaign aimed at quote, curvy Southern women. Yeah.

Yeah, and they even tried to like get Aretha Franklin to be their spokesperson for the ads. Keep in mind the whole time the company fully knows that the product has been linked to causing both ovarian and lung cancer in their customers. You guys are fucked. Johnson & Johnson, they're fucked. It was not until August of this year, this year. Yeah, Johnson & Johnson was like, "All right, we won't put talc in our baby powder anywhere, but not this year, we'll do it by 2023."

Yeah. How is that legal? How is that okay? It's just like, I don't understand. I don't know, you guys. I really don't know. Like, this story just makes me kind of sick because they know. And I don't know, it's 2023 and they're just now like, okay.

Oh, I feel sick. Recently, the company has faced even more backlash thanks to documentaries. Like there's one on HBO. It's called Not So Pretty. It came out like earlier this year, which was bringing a lot of like awareness or about like the shady things Johnson & Johnson's doing. Well, of course, because Johnson & Johnson has money, it's probably not surprising to you that they would come up with some kind of strategy to

get out of having to pay for the financial responsibility of their lawsuits. So essentially Johnson & Johnson was like, they did something shady. They split themselves into two different companies and they declared bankruptcy on one of their companies. So this meant that anyone who filed a lawsuit against Johnson & Johnson, they can claim that they don't have any money for a payout. They're bankrupt. It's a really shady thing that a lot,

of people end up doing 'cause it's legal. So if you're ever getting sued, make a fake company and declare bankruptcy. There you go, learn something new. That's how they do it. Congrats, Johnson. Johnson, you did it. You got out of having to pay for killing people. Congratulations. I hope you feel so good about yourself, you guys. Wow. We should get all of our baby powder.

and go to Johnson & Johnson. We should go there and like just baby power the shit out of them. Who's with me? So Johnson & Johnson started with some great ideas meant to actually help people and make the planet better. But at some point the company like ended up just

losing their way and became another greedy corporate villain. And here's the thing, baby powder, baby powder is just like the tip of the iceberg. Johnson & Johnson had some major recalls recently for wild reasons. From 2009 to 2011, there just happened to be metal shards discovered in some of their liquid medicines like eye drops. Yeah, freaking ouch.

In 2010, they recalled hip implants because the metal that they were made out of was like poisonous. Yeah, awesome. And if you're a woman, good luck. Hope you have a good lawyer because their vaginal mesh product, well, it could pierce right through your organs, okay? The tool that they used during hysterectomies by surgeons, it was linked to spreading and causing uterine cancer. Awesome.

Great. And here's the fun part. Even after all this, Johnson & Johnson's average profit over the last decade was $53 billion. That's because if one product goes down, they have hundreds of others to take its place. They've got everything from pharmaceuticals, skincare, medical devices. I mean, this company has made its way into every part of our daily lives and into our homes, whether we like it or not. So Johnson & Johnson has gone away with a lot.

And there's probably so much that we will never know about because it's not like they're gonna come out and do a tell-all, you know? And like a lot of their documents are sealed and stuff. We need an insider to come forward and write a book. One of the Johnsons, please do it. That's the only way we'll get the truth. And even then they're probably gonna be like, well, it wasn't that bad. But the thing that really gets me is that Johnson & Johnson goes around talking about how they're a family company, but who's family?

You know, it's such a slap in the face. I mean, to this day, they're still selling this talc-based baby powder. It's literally on the shelves. You could go right now and get it. They could have recalled it at any time. And I mean, look what they did with the Tylenol scare. They fixed it. Did they?

I don't know. I mean, they made a seal. But like, they didn't like fix it, fix it. 'Cause what was that all about? Some people think it was an inside job. Anyways, Baby Powder isn't even their big moneymaker. It's like a fraction of their overall profit. In my personal opinion,

I think Johnson & Johnson won't take it off the shelves because it's kind of like they would be admitting that they're guilty. Getting rid of the baby powder is like saying, oh, you're right, our baby powder's bad. Sorry about that. But that's just my opinion. For the most part, most of Johnson & Johnson's products

aren't recalled and they are not going to kill you which is great there really is a ton of good that they do in the world everything from surgical supplies to the band-aids you know not the motivational tampons but they got a pretty decent track record but the stuff I did highlight is still pretty freaking bad and that's just what we know and that's what's really frustrating we know that you could do better and you could do the right thing but

Johnston Johnson, I'm speaking geo, hi. So why not just do the right thing? I don't get that. Why? Money for coming up on, I don't get it. So next time you're changing your tampon, you know, look at those motivational words, stretch it.

Just rip that shit out. Swing it around like a helicopter and let that shit go. Throw it in Johnson and Johnson's face. Anyways, thank you guys so much for hanging out with me today. I hope you have a wonderful day. You make good choices. Go pop a Tylenol, put on some slippers and take a little nap. Doesn't that sound nice? I hope you have a great day and I'll be talking to you next week. Goodbye.

Dark History is an Audioboom original. This podcast is executive produced by Bailey Sarian, Kimberly Jacobs, Junya McNeely from 3Arts, Kevin Grush, and Claire Turner from Maiden Network. Writers, Katie Burrs, Alison Filobos, Joey Scaluzzo, and me, Bailey Sarian. Shot and edited by Tafadzwa Nemarundwe and Lily Young. Research provided by Xander Elmore and the Dark History Researchers. And I'm your host, Bailey Sarian.

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