Tua & Love get extended, plus 6 quasi-baked takes before the NFL preseason
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Hi, I'm Nate Tice. This is Football 301. Today, we're going to be talking about the Tua and Jordan Love extensions. And Matt Harmon's joining me to go over our half-baked takes that we have as we enter August of training camp. With Credit Karma, finding the right credit card for you is easy. Our app analyzes user profiles to suggest personalized recommendations. Visit creditkarma.com today to explore cards tailored to your needs. Credit Karma, simplifying your financial choices. Okay, it's time to commit.

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Hello, welcome to Football 301. I am your host, Nate Tice. Welcome back to Football 301. This is week two. We are continuing on. It is training camp. It is like full swing. I just went to my first practice here in Phoenix, Arizona. Had to keep it nice and hot and spicy for me. I'm going to have some Cardinal takes in the future weeks. I know the person that's joining me on this show is excited to talk about the Cardinals offense. We're going to have some half-baked takes on this show. And I'm really excited for the person that's joining me. And that's Matt Harmon.

the creator of Reception Perception. You can find him at Yahoo, and you're going to find him on the show a lot.

And you're going to find me on his show a lot. We're going to just be doing Home and Away every single week. We're like a freaking English soccer team. We're doing Home and Away. It's double round robin. But Matt, how are you doing today? Thank you for joining me. Of course, Nate. Happy to be here. Yeah, you were on my show yesterday. We're doing this today. It's fantastic, buddy. You look great. You look like you got a little sun out there in Arizona. And I'm excited to hear about your Cardinals thoughts, but I'm also excited to do a little take shopping today. Yes. Yeah. Half-taked.

I think that's what I'm going with. Half-taked. I feel like I envy Mina Kimes and how easy she can come up with puns because I struggle for these. She comes up with them every show and I'm just like, I'm so jealous. But yes, I do have some Cardinals thoughts. I actually, yeah. I'm going to start off with one in a second, but I made them. I would say I made the mistake. I was trying to save some money. I didn't get a rental car. So I'm staying right across the street from the stadium and I walked. I'm like, oh, half mile.

Not bad. I could easily do that. Pop some headphones in, walk on over to practice going there. Not too bad. 98 degrees. I can, I can handle that. I'm from Vegas. I'm not from, I live in Vegas. The walk back 108 degrees 0.6 miles. I felt every, like every yard that I stepped, I was like, I just was like dying. And I just can't believe I made that mistake. But it was like, do I order an Uber for a half mile drive? What's the etiquette on Uber distances? Do you have a, do you have like a minimum?

I feel like it's a mile at the very least, but yeah, no, I'm 100% with you and I'm strict about the one mile minimum. And because, I mean, I like to walk, I'm a big Walker. I see. I'm in, I'm in LA right now, which coming from Virginia, uh,

This is like a nice change of pace. I can walk. So I walked from the hotel to the office today to tape this pod for the people that are watching it on YouTube. They can tell I'm not in my little box where I never move, especially in the over the next few months. But I'm 100 percent with you. Like, I will not Uber within a mile. I don't care what it's like. But this is a nice change of pace being in L.A. because I'm sure you feel the same way being out in Vegas. And this is definitely people tuned into to hear some. Oh, this is great. Some sweat off the top.

like my wife did laundry for us the other day. Normally I'm the one in the household doing the laundry. She goes, why do you, why am I washing like a hundred t-shirts within a two week period? I'm like, it's summer. We're on the East coast. We got humidity. I'm going through four shirts a day. Okay. That's the way it is. So it doesn't, but still again, it doesn't matter if I'm within the one mile, I'm not taking an Uber. Yeah. I, I, I'm not like a heavy sweater. I'm like a decent sweater. This is great. Episode three, football 301. Get your, get your sweat talking, but no, it's,

I'm not a heavy, heavy sweater, but I'll help out. I'll go to my son's little soccer class, which is just them running around and quasi chasing the ball and doing all that. But it's great. I love it. I'm perspiring during that. So that's a change of clothes after that. So yeah, I'm with you. Summers in Vegas, you do any semblance of activity, you are sweating. But

Today, before we get into those half-baked takes, half-takes, whatever we want to call them, whatever we get to, take shop, there was some NFL news, which was kind of felt like we were always on the cusp of this. And it happened over the weekend. It happened on Friday. News dropped Friday, of course. Two big quarterback extensions. Really, this is a continuation of other extensions that have happened over the last few months. Seems like every offseason this will happen. If there's quarterbacks to pay, they're probably going to get paid.

But these teams, we had Tua Tagalovea for the Dolphins, four years, $212.4 million, $167 million guaranteed, which is, of course, more important in the NFL. Then we also had Jordan Love with the Packers, four years, $220 million, $160 million guaranteed. So what are we thinking here? I haven't really gotten your Tua takes, Matt. So where do you stand with Tua, the Dolphins' offense?

What do you think? Maybe not so much this year, maybe 2024, but maybe 2025 and future plans that you think is going on in Miami with Tua and everybody.

Yeah, I think we all kind of agree this year might be a little different in terms of the roster building approach because they had to do a little bit of salary resetting, right? Let a guy like Christian Wilkins just walk. Normally a player that good never just walks out the door, right? That just is not... Or as they said, as they kindly put it, he's earned the right to test free agency, I believe was what it was, which is when they... I remember that news that day because I remember being like,

They're letting him walk. You don't hear GM say that, but I continue. Sorry. No, it's diplomatic is a nice way to say it. It was. Very diplomatic. I think, though, just the idea of Tua and committing to him long term, I'm generally on the same page with, I think, your Tua take and generally most people that watch film. He's not...

He's not one of the elite quarterbacks in the league, for sure. I think he is more a product of his environment than he is the straw that serves the drink, if that makes sense. However...

I would be curious, you know, if there was like a if I'm Chris Greer and Mike McDaniel and Dolphins ownership, I would love to know what the conversations were like with McDaniel specifically. Like how many other guys do you think you can do this with? Can you make this offense this productive with a different player? I would be curious about that thought exercise. But my my general thought about this, Nathan, you know, it's.

I think this is a pretty common comparison, but it's not too dissimilar to how I felt about when the Rams re-signed Jared Goff originally, which obviously, no, that was a deal they lived to regret. But at the time, I just don't think many coaches, you know, are...

they have enough courage to stare down quarterback wilderness because that's the reality of this. Like, yeah, I'm sure there is a large swath of potential quarterbacks that Mike McDaniel might feel he can replicate this production with and make this offense this good. You know, where we talk again, we talk about in the top 10 offenses, this is a top 10 offense, no question, probably more like a top five offense. It's just,

can they do it when it matters? It was like no question and no statement from us either. We just kind of said, they're good. They're going to be good, but we kind of know the negatives. Exactly. That's where we're at. I just, again, like there's a hypothetical where they, they, they, maybe they can do this with somebody else, but they know they can do it with this guy. Is there a point two years from now where we're having a conversation where again, they keep running into the ceiling. I think that's potentially true, but it's,

But it's just very hard for people in the chairs. It's easy for us to talk about it, like the hypothetical exercises and stuff like that. For people in the chairs, I think it's hard to stare down the quarterback wilderness and just decide to walk into it. Well, first, it killed my dream of Dak Prescott to the Dolphins. But that was a pipe dream fan fiction that I wanted to write. But I think, no, everything you kind of said. I feel...

good about where I stand with him. Like him and Purdy originally, I kind of had them grouped together, but now I'm still... I have more positives about Purdy now these days. But yeah, I really do. I've said I've always Brock Gnostic and all that stuff, but I've bumped up a little bit. But Watua...

I, you can win with him. It's like, it's very Alex Smith to me. Like where that, and I just keep coming back to that name where it's like, he has limitations. He can run the offense really well. He's accurate. He's going to do some nice things, but it's like, you know, he doesn't create as much as Alex did, but you know, he's kind of safe. I know some of the stats don't show that, but it's,

He is. It's just that that's the offense kind of ekes out every, you know, every inch of space and has so much speed to devastate defenses that what you're saying about the at the end there about the quarterback wilderness. That is terrifying for so many people. It's because in theory, and I know there's a lot of theory right now where it's like, well, this is what you do because of cheap quarterback contracts. You just move on to the next one like the Eagles did.

in theory yeah and you know or you could be like the raiders and go yeah oh okay bye derrick carr we got jimmy g and okay yeah we'll see what that happened there oh okay now we'll just go with gardner michigan aiden o'connell figured it out the dolphins in a way like it's not a mess it's just that they created this conundrum where it's their team is too good to blow up the they have tyreek and they have an offense that that has an identity they have weapons that are

It's practically unguardable unless you have a very specific type of defense for most of the year. And I think that's so hard to walk away from and just go, yeah, we'll just sign blank. And then, you know, especially when you get to this point, it's okay. Yeah, they can say that right here. We're going to run out this contract and deal with that at the end of the year. What does that say to the locker room?

You know, so it's just it. There's so much that goes into this. And that's why it's like it. I thought that they maybe would stare him down and say, like, let's go through the end of the year. Shoot, Dak's not paid yet. But it is just like this is what it is. This is the price of business of having a competent quarterback. And that's what it is at the very least. He's competent, even if he has plenty of blemishes that we will talk more about. I'm sure over the next coming months, especially once we see that weather get below 45. Well, we'll talk probably a bit more about it. But the other signing that happened this week.

And I think it's officially the highest paid contract in NFL history. I believe that you can say with this is Jordan Love. And I said the money, but $106 million guaranteed. This feels more a guy on the rise to me. This is where you're – I want to say, yeah, you're getting him at a discount. You're not. But this is, again, the price of business of a guy that has –

Like I said, Tua, I think me and others in the league, I don't want to say like I'm at their level, but and you and any of us that watch them feel we're safe where Tua is on the spectrum of quarterbacks. Love is...

you know, we got some mystery box to them still, even if the back half of the season was so exciting, we still have more mystery box to tap into. And especially with the circumstances around them, they have cheap off. This is when you have a very cheap unit, a cheap team, a young team, you can pay your quarterback. You can do these things. So it's, I, this one makes a lot of sense. I kind of saw it coming. I don't think anyone should be shocked. I'm very high on Jordan love. I believe where did you end up having the Packers in your top 10?

I think I had them six, which is exactly where they were last year. That sounds exactly right. But I know you, yeah, you're pretty optimistic about them too, but maybe more with not even just love, but maybe some of the pass catchers as well. And that's pretty fun to try and sort out.

Well, I think I'm most excited about love, like as a player. And that makes me more excited about the receivers and the pass catchers. Actually, I was talking about the NFC North wide receivers the other day and the whole group. And this is the most fascinating one, I think, because...

they have a lot of depth whereas in detroit they don't have a lot of depth in minnesota they don't have a lot of depth but they have better players and it's kind of like what like in terms of the top guy on the depth chart right they include minnesota and detroit obviously with jefferson and saint brown they have both those guys are better than anybody on the packers roster at least right now not a shocking statement yeah i would say that's probably gonna i will probably still feel that way by the end of the year yep i think that's a very safe thing to say yeah but

When you look at Minnesota's receiver room, when you look at Detroit's receiver room, I'm kind of like, okay, who's –

the two like with Addison and Williams I'm kind of still like I'm in discovery mode about the play the ceiling of those two players and then you get to like three and four and there's not a lot of proven above average needle moving players whereas here in Green Bay you have a bevy of them and that's why it's interesting to think about this receiver room within the context of the fact that they're playing with a quarterback that like you said is on the rise and I

The difference between him and Tua is that I do think there's a lot of creativity in Love's game. There are the trick shots, the fadeaways, and he almost...

plays in a way where he has that confidence that he knows he can do that and i think invites himself into those situations sometimes which is totally fine when you have that in your in your bag you know if you got him yeah exactly like he knows he has that club and he can he can get himself out of the rough he can get himself out of sand traps and stuff like that i don't not in my golf game i can't do that either but he's like he's like flop shot sure like yeah he's got it all

And that's what makes me so optimistic about the offense and the ecosystem in general is just that Love has already shown, I think, to be that guy. And, you know, a lot of results-based and, like, box score scouting will have you kind of split the first and the second half of the season. But, Nate, I don't know if you agree with this to me. When I was watching the Packers last year, I think around that, like, Steelers game was really where I think it started to really crystallize with Love. But even prior to that, I

I think you, again, throw the stats out, the results out, whatever. You could still see the tools kind of coming to fruition with him as a player, even if, again, the completion percentage, you know, touchdown interception ratio was a little bit fluky, all of that stuff. I think on balance from week one all through the NFC divisional round loss, the 49ers.

I think he looked like a quarterback that was consistently getting better. So I don't think it's been like, oh, we have one half of a season of a sample of Jordan Love being a high-quality quarterback. I think he looked like a high-quality quarterback on film all throughout last year. I'm right there with you. I know everyone's kind of doing the...

10 through 18, one through nine splits. You know, that's kind of the split of the 50-50 season. Yeah. Was it the Raiders game? Raiders game is when they kept shooting themselves in the foot. And that's when I remember when LeFleur, they showed him. I want to say he was talking to Luke Musgrave, who's another player I'm very high on. But he...

run the right route. He ran like he you could tell he didn't do something right. Like and love throws the ball to like just a wide open space. There's nobody walking there. And it was like so he probably got tagged and didn't hear it. And then you see LaFleur like grab Musgrave as he comes off and you could just see him just like like it's like a like a dad with a teenager just like

Okay, man. All right. Just like, please get this right. Please. But it wasn't just Busgrave. I don't want to throw him under the bus. It was all the young – they took turns. It was one after another. At first, you thought that this offense could rely on their run game until the young receivers figured it out. That was why I was bullish on them and I –

I kind of inadvertently ended up being correct with the take. I was like, they're going to improve in the second half of the year. It just didn't happen how I thought it would, where their passing game was just bonkers for the second half of the year. And I thought it would improve, but

But because they didn't really rely on that run game, it just felt so inconsistent. It felt like Love had to hit another third and 10, another third and 12, all these third, long third downs, all these second and longs. He was behind the eight ball a lot. So you kind of did get to see him kind of get in a flow a lot. And I totally right. There's always a boost for these guys after the bye week.

That Raiders game happened, which was Monday night. Yeah, I knew it was Sunday or Monday night. I couldn't remember. And then they went bye week, which is week six. And then that's where it was like, even though they lost the next two weeks, you could see the stuff start getting better and better. They had one play. I want to say it was at home. So I'm trying to think it must have been that Vikings game where they had they ran an RPO and none of the receivers ran a route.

So love catches the ball and he's going to throw and all the receivers are blocking and he just takes a sack. And it's like, you know, that was first down that some people clipped it and everything. But that's what this offense was. It was just all these young guys taking a turn, messing up and love trying to do his best. So that's why I just think that I'm totally with you, that it was more like a 12 week glimpse for, and with glimpses before that, maybe in 13, 14 weeks, as opposed to just 10 weeks or nine weeks, as he's kind of made out to be, which is why I'm bullish. And I think even the playoffs, um,

I know he had that bad pick at the end of the San Francisco game, but all the stuff leading up to it, did we remember all the he was doing before that? I think that might've been the first swear on football 301. So I, we were doing okay, but it's, yeah, this just is a, yeah, I'm optimistic about love. I'm optimistic about the offense. This is, this is why I was so, I'm so high up in my top 10 stuff. So totally get why he's getting paid. I'm curious just about the receiver usage here too. Yeah. Because, um,

I know I'm going to come off like the biggest Christian Watson hater when I say this. And it's not, I'm not strictly just saying this is a him thing, but I think last year, uh,

early on in the season well number one he missed the first three weeks and then he only played 46% of the snaps 26 snaps overall in his first game against the Lions but then after that he was on the field 84 88 82% of the snaps consistently and like leading the team in routes and targets and to me I don't think he's that type of player I think they they asked too much of him at the beginning

beginning point of last year. I think he is more of a... He's a less-is-more type of player to me. I think low usage, high yield, high return on those. And I think those type of players, when you're only looking at them from an efficiency metric perspective, even the good efficiency metrics, like yards per route run, first downs per route run, all that stuff, they can end up kind of being a little trappy because, like, oh...

if we use him more, that usage is going to continue. It's going to boost up. And I don't necessarily think that's the case with him because when you look at him from an individual player perspective, not a consistent separator, not a consistent route runner. Um, the biggest problem for him last year was he was a mess at the catch point. Like the,

I think at one point last year, and this might even have held throughout the course of the season, he was the most, like Love had the most interceptions when throwing to Christian Watson, which sometimes that can be among all the players that they had last year. And that can sometimes be a quarterback issue, but sometimes it can be this guy is not a great ball tracker and he's not a true ball winner, despite the fact that he's a big outside receiver. So like when you look last year in the games that

Christian Watson was healthy, so it's 11 games including the playoffs, like Jaden Reed only ran a route on 3% of the two wide receiver sets when Christian Watson was healthy. That cannot continue this year. I guarantee you if that happens in the first four weeks or whatever, it's, you know, because they're going to run a lot of 12 personnel. They're going to have Tucker Craft and Luke Musgrave on the field. And if it's Dobbs, and I like, I think I'm kind of stock up on Dobbs a little bit after his second season, but if it's Dobbs and Watson out there and they don't have Jaden Reed, I guarantee you by week four, Packers fans are like,

where the hell is this guy that scored all the touchdowns for us last year and had all those layup completions? And again, I don't want to say that, yeah, the offense fixed itself because Christian Watson kind of

got hurt in the back half of the year or whatever but i think having reed on the field as a easy layup receiver because he's a good separator and they used him in creative ways for jordan love i think that just that's why the results look better in the back half of the year as opposed to again who he was on film jordan love i think was consistent not a great point uh watson i it's confusing for me because i was lower on him coming out of college and then

He got like, oh, well, you just I'm so glad you brought the underlying metrics, too, because that's why everyone kind of kept pointing out and pointing out like, hey, hey, you know, arrow go up. Like this guy's just going to watch him, you know, watching Bryce to the top with him. You kind of nailed it. He's a he's almost like a specialist. Like he's a yeah, he's a three point shooter in an offense. Like he just does one thing. He does certain things really well. He's a you don't want him breaking on routes. You want him running.

as, as a Dame Brugler, who I worked with at the athletic, he would call them like runway routes, you know, like let him get a runway crossers, big overs, overers.

And he so this is why he's going to be a heavy touchdown usage guy or production guy, but he's not going to have, like you said, maybe a ton of targets, receptions, yards with it. Like kind of how ended up with last year was like, man, he just keeps getting a touchdown every game, but it's only three catches, 42 yards, you know, but for one touchdown, the floor loves him.

That's his baby. So he's going to keep getting those. That's why I don't know if he's going to continue to get more usage, but those touchdowns aren't going away. I don't think in my eye, even though touchdowns can kind of be volatile, but he's going to get stuff. He's going to be a designed player. But it's funny what you mentioned with Reed. Reed's the guy I'm highest on of all these guys. Yeah, just because inside outside ability, more gadget stuff, better.

better yak stuff that I even gave him credit for. I knew he could return punts, but even way better than that. He's a three down guy. He's smart. And you mentioned that he's a slot. I think long-term, you know, he can do outside stuff, but like, that's the guy it's like, that's the one that I, I see getting,

Not to that high-end status, but the guy that can eat the most innings, eat the most touches in this offense. But I know everybody loves Wicks. You know, Dontavian Wicks. I think that's everyone's kind of hipster favorite right now. But he's receiver three or four right now for them. So I just want to be honest about it. Even if I like it, just got to keep it realistic where he is on their depth chart. I like Wicks too. I think he's probably the best just ISO route runner of the four guys. But Dontavian,

And Dobbs' role is critical here, you know, as I say all the time. Your favorite role. He's important here. And also, Jordan Love clearly trusts him to go get a bucket downfield. Like on these, like, OK. He's the ISO guy. Yeah, I can alert him and he can get, you know, he wins in contested situations. Again, much better in that in his second season than he was as a rookie. So, yeah.

I think he's just a guy that if he was 10% worse, you just take him off the field for wicks, but he's not 10% worse. And I think there's a chance here that, yeah, Reed leads the team in targets, somebody else leads the team in yards, and Christian Watson leads the team in touchdowns. That is very possible in this receiver room. But the reason that we are saying that, Nate, to bring it back to Jordan Love, is that we do have confidence in the quarterback. Like if this was –

If this was a, you know, again, somewhat a little lower down the spectrum in terms of the quarterback hierarchy here than Jordan Love, I think we'd be looking at this receiver and like, oh, yeah, it's a mess. And like, who knows what's going to happen? And yeah, it's maybe a little bit of a mess, but it can be kind of if you're trying to nail it from a projection standpoint or whatever. But if you're just thinking about the quality of the offense. Yeah, I'm interested in all these players because I believe in the quarterback. Nailed it. And the play caller helps, too. True. It's going to be good. Yes.

Yeah, go pack go. It's going to be fun. I'm excited. Excited to watch all of them grow. Tight ends too, but we spend enough on the cheese heads. We'll be talking about plenty in the future. So we're going to take a quick break and then we're going to come back with our half-baked takes, our take shops, our half-taked, whatever we want to call it, but we're coming back with that. Forget one-size-fits-all diets. With Noom, you get a personalized weight loss plan that's tailored to your lifestyle. Have cravings? Food FOMO?

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Okay, let's get into these. We're going to do some take shopping, some half takes, whatever, you know, some thoughts, some things right now. It'll be July 30th, July 31st when you're hearing this. So as we're entering August, Matt, what is your first take? You kind of want to just get off your chest right now, or maybe something that you've had brewing for the last couple of weeks. Just a thought, a take, whatever you got. Let's get this going. I'm...

So excited to talk about this one in particular with you, Nate. Saw the light bulb come on yesterday when we talked, so I'm excited for this. Not just because I think you might agree with me, which obviously I only want to discuss things with people who agree with me. I never would like to be challenged, but this is a contrarian hipster take within the fantasy space, right? Because the moment Jim Harbaugh got hired by

by the Los Angeles Chargers and obviously brings Greg Roman along with him to be the offensive coordinator there. Everybody kind of consensus view is stocked down, you know, in terms of Justin Herbert, fantasy, all this stuff. And I didn't want this just to be an offense take,

I wanted to make this a Chargers are going to be better in 2024 than people think, but I just couldn't get there with the defense and especially the secondary, which actually is going to inform a little bit of my take here. So my half-baked take or the thing I want to take shop here is that the Chargers offense is going to be more productive in 2024 than people think.

think because again there's no question that the volume is not going I don't think it's going to be the same as what we've seen previously you look back at Jim Harbaugh and I know this is ancient history I mean what what the hell were you doing in 2011 Nate I was a senior in Wisconsin yeah I was a I was a sophomore junior at Lynchburg College

So, yeah, we different life baby. So but again, 2011 Jim Harbaugh's 34 the San Francisco 49ers 31st, 31st, 32nd and 29th and pass attempts from 2011 to 2014. I think they'll probably try to play

a little conservative and take the air out of the ball more than what we've seen with the Chargers previously. However, I less so care about the volume here. I'm interested in the efficiency of this offense this year with Justin Herbert because that I think is much more interesting in the Jim Harbaugh era because you look at net yards per attempt in 2012 and 2013 when that offense I think was firing on all cylinders and

8th in 2012, 10th in 2013. You look at just strictly Alex Smith and Colin Kaepernick in 2013.

2011 or just Alex Smith in 2011 was 7.1 yards per attempt. Colin Kaepernick and Alex Smith the next year when they went to the Super Bowl, 8.3 and 8.0. And then in 2013, still 7.7 yards per attempt in in 2013 for Colin Kaepernick. Nate, how many times has Justin Herbert in his career hit 7.7 yards per attempt?

Probably never. He's more of a check down Charlie than people think. Yes. What is it? Zero point zero times. 7.5, his second season, was his high watermark. So,

And I've spent a lot of time watching the Chargers because I've done the show with Austin Eckler the last couple of years. And it's not always been a fun experience watching that offense for a variety of reasons. So I didn't ever you. They did a lot of things that I think are like bait for smart football people. You know, especially last year, they did a lot of pre-snap motion. They did a lot of 11 personnel. But.

the kind of, and they played fast. They ran a lot of plays, but in terms of the run game, the tight ends blocking were a net negative. The offensive line was a mess. And yeah, they did a lot of like short passing to boost your play volume and your passing volume. But from an efficiency perspective, it's not there. So we can start talking about the players and stuff like that. But just from a basis, I actually think with,

where the league is headed now. You know, we talk about teams going a little heavier. We talk about teams trying to take advantage of under center play action shot plays. I actually think Harbaugh and Greg Roman a little bit are more in line with the meta than some of what we, with the current offensive meta of the league than what we've seen in LA the last few years.

It's almost become a quality to have a non-Shanehan offense because it gives defenses something different to prepare for. And it's just little minor things, but it's overall philosophy. No, I love this one because I'm right there with you. I don't think this is a top 10 offense or anything, but I think people are acting like it's going to be a train wreck. And I just think, look what their first pick was, Joel right away. That is an improvement on this offensive line. I think just by competency of what Harbaugh does, I

And what Roman does, like the offensive line always gets a boost from their offense because they're going to help it out. There's going to be plenty of chip help. There's going to be plenty of, you know, double teams on the outside. There's going to be plenty of heavy stuff with the tight end involved with the blocking as opposed to maybe spread formations and trying to block. They have a freaking fullback on the team.

You know, like we know what this team's doing. And, you know, they this was one of the things the Chargers roster building was one of the most frustrating things I've since I've been in media that I've covered. Just the overall the stars and scrub roster building. I thought that they were trying to do a lot of things with a roster that literally could not do it. Even didn't matter who the coach was. So it didn't matter if it was Joe Lombardi or Kellen Moore was their tight ends.

Like we're all terrible blockers. They had Gerald Everett as their tight end one. Gerald Everett's a nice move guy, but you don't want them blocking in line. So right away they had a negative every single week when they – so you had to take plays out of the playbook every week. I mean they would still try and run them, which was a whole other issue I had. Yeah, a whole other thing. So just getting – yeah, I know. And then even just running back depth behind Austin. That was one of the most frustrating things I had because –

You know, Eckler's not the biggest guy in the world, and he's a really good pass protector. He can catch the ball. He can do everything.

He's got to take a breather. He was coming on the show with me and being like, I'm hoping for a, you know, and he would obviously say good things about his teammates and Josh Kelly and all that stuff, which he knows 100%. But he consistently talked about how he wanted that one-two punch, which I do think is a big reason that he's in Washington now because they have Brian Robinson and he can take those like, yeah, he can take the grinder carries and stuff like that. But they never found that guy ever in LA, which I think was an issue.

It was so, it was frustrating for me because even the guys they went after never to me, they were guys that were never high on Spiller, others. But those guys, even if they succeeded, they didn't make sense to me. Like as far as what they needed, like it never, the guys that they kind of were going after, I was like, do you guys know your roster? Do you guys know what you need on this team? No, let's get another receiver. And it's like.

But I'm with you on the defense. Defense, we'll talk about at a later date because they're not – I like the defense coordinator a lot. I like Minter a lot. He came from Michigan. He's fallen hardball. He does some really good stuff and he has some NFL experience and stuff. But –

offensively, they're going to pound the rock. We know this, but I don't think we should just treat it like a meme. We should treat this like a good thing. This is why I'm a little higher on the Steelers offense too. Exactly what you said, this meta of being burly and being brawling and being just at you runs and beating defenses over the top. That's how you beat defenses. Now everyone's going to blitz you or they're going to run real soft coverages and make you nickel and dime you. The ways to beat that is you got to gash them or run on them.

What this offense is being built to run on you and gas you over the top. So, yes, it's not going to be perfect because the receivers aren't all the way there. You know, the weapons aren't great, but they have an identity. And I think they're going to be really well coached. And I think, you know, Harbaugh or Herbert is, you know, good, very good. So I think that that helps a lot, too. I can't remember Andrew Lux because he came out as a redshirt junior. I can't remember his redshirt sophomore stats because that would have been Harbaugh's last year there. But they...

They'll chuck it. Like they'll throw, they have no qualms with, you know, if they have a quarterback that can throw, I'm not going to throw the ball a ton with Alex Smith as my quarterback either. So it's, you know, and then Colin Kaepernick was a running first run first quarterback. If they can run the ball, they're gonna, but you know, he also has Herbert. So I'm curious. I think they're going to have more elements of a more passy offense than people realize. So I'm right there. I'd love this take.

I mean, again, they were pushing it with Kaepernick, too. Over 13 yards per completion in 2012 and 2013. 13 yards per completion. Again, a feat that Herbert has accomplished zero times. He's never been above 11.3. So, yeah, the receivers are a question mark. Like, DJ Chark might be their starting X receiver because that's not – I think they already know Quentin Johnson can't do that. But –

Yeah, I love Ladd McConkie. That's a good player. So, yeah, the personnel's whatever. But I actually think stylistically it's a good offense. Yep. And they're going to try their best. All right, I'll get on to my first one. Maybe an offense I'm higher on than others. And I wanted to add a little more spice than just saying, oh, this offense will be better than others. I think maybe it's because you already took the more productive, that people think, way to put it. I went safe. Yeah.

I know. I want to get a little spice in here because I want to talk good about one team and talk maybe a little bad about another. The Titans offense will be better than the Jags offense this year. And I actually feel a little bit better about this than even when I put it down to digital print. I think the Titans are going to surprise some people. I really do. I think just they've added some maturity on that offense with Tyler Boyd in there. Okay.

Calvin Ridley, maybe he's not the most mature player as far as player, but he's explosive and everything. But I also just think the offensive line, Lloyd Cushenberry, I think was a great signing because he's going to solidify the interior. Also give a veteran center for Will Levis to operate with, which I think is just always a great thing to have for a young quarterback. Bill Callahan, offensive line coach, along with Brian Callahan, his son being the head coach.

I like him a lot. Like, I think he is a boost for an offense. Offensive line coaches are, can do a lot for an offense. Like they can really lift up the floor. Maybe not the ceiling. That's where the quarterback comes in, but they can lift up the floor. They invested in the offensive line, JC Latham, bringing him in. I'm very high on JC Latham. Of course, Callahan went after him. Okay. 360 pound tackle that can move. Yeah, of course. Callahan's going to be all over that guy.

There that's going to be a really fun left side with Peter Skowronski, JC Latham, Lloyd Cushenberry at center. Hopefully they figure out the right side and the receiver wise. They have DeAndre Hopkins, who's still good. I just want to confirm this with everyone. I know, you know, but DeAndre Hopkins is still a good receiver, but

Calvin Ridley is still a good receiver. He's up and down, but this is going to be a perfect type of role for him because he doesn't have to be the guy. He can be a Z. He can move around. He can be off ball. I know we've talked about this a little bit too. Tyler Boyd, I've already mentioned him, but maturity in the slot. They have other guys too.

Who cares about Trayvon Burks? They actually have a couple tight ends. Chigurh Krakow, I actually like. And I also like Josh Wiley. Hopefully he comes back healthy. So, yeah, I just think this offense is going to be competent. I think Levis does some nice things. And also that thing that we talk about, about pushing the ball and being defenses over top. That's what he does.

And he can create a little bit. He's tough. I think the coaches really like him. A couple of guys I've talked to from there, they like him. And I think they're pretty optimistic and they're trying to kind of like temper it a little bit. So, yeah, I'm bent on the Titans to kind of surprise some people. I think they're going to be a lot friskier than people around, especially on that offense. Some of the maturity and some of the youth explosion that they have. I didn't mention the running backs, but –

Yada, yada, yada. Tosh experience is fun. They are fun. And I do think they want to maximize those guys as receivers. That's been like whenever they talk about the running back room, at least the coaching staff and Brian Callahan, the first thing they say is like, oh yeah, these guys can both function in the passing game, which I think tells you that

this is a team that wants to move into a different identity phase. They want to, and their moves back this up too, in terms of retaining Hopkins, keeping him around, you're getting Calvin Ridley, paying him a boatload of money, getting Tyler Boyd to man that slot receiver position. And obviously they want to be for the offensive line too. They're telling you they want to be a pass first offense with both their words and then their actions like that. That is what you want to see from NFL team in terms of where, where they want to go direction wise.

I know we have talked about the Ridley thing a ton, but I do think he probably, I don't think he will ever be quite the same player that he was with the Falcons where I think he was on that. We talked about our receiver tiers. I think he was in that tier two. Maybe you're ready to jump to the top of tier two in the league. I don't know that he'll quite be that, but I do think he will be used better this year. Last year in Jacksonville, in the games I chartered for reception perception, 48.6% of his routes were go, go,

come back or curl. Like he will, which I think will be like Hopkins can do that stuff. Yeah. Yeah. That's a Hopkins route tree. Yeah. Yeah. Totally. So I like the way the receivers come together and I do obviously have faith in the offensive line. I saw, I'm kind of with you on the Titans being, um,

more interesting than people think. Um, more exciting to watch because Levis is kind of, um, he's just a, by default, he's exciting. Yeah. He's exciting. I don't know if he's good, but he's definitely exciting. But I'm curious, you're like, how did you arrive on the,

anti-jags part of this take because I'm sort of all over the place with Jacksonville, but it does sound like from talking to you, you are a little more concerned about this offense. They don't even know who's calling plays. I'll start with that. It's about to be August and they have no idea who's calling plays. Doug Peterson won't confirm it. He says we're still deciding. That right there, that's the jacks. It's just rudderless floating in the deep end.

with a beautiful captain of your ship with long hair that just you know he's got no horse he's got nothing they you know so i this jags offense has been long frustrating for me it's not really a system i like because it's very rpo heavy very kind of nickel dimey the best version of it was in the middle of last season before the wheels started falling off and everyone got hurt was when they came out of the bi-week they played at houston it looked great because

Because they went heavier. They used tight ends. Luke Farrell got more snaps than he had. I can't believe a team missed Chris Manhurts as much as the Jags did last season. A blocking tight end who plays like 10 snaps a game. But they did. It's just the team building has been poor. Even if I really do think I'll never come off that with Trent Baalke. Anton Harrison, though, is very good.

I will give him that at right tackle. The rest of the offensive line, though, I am still holding on to my hat with this O-line. Mitch Morris is getting by with some name stuff. He is better than what they had, but he's, I would say, an average starting center at this point in time in his career. He's just older now, and he's been banged up. Erza Cleveland, Ezra Cleveland, is O-line coach's favorite, but I don't think he's very good. I just actually posted a clip of Chris Jones right before Cleveland got traded to the Jags, and Chris Jones is

Yeah, put him in the torture chamber. But then Cam Robinson's kind of falling off a little bit, too. He's more just at starting. He might be gone after this year as well. But then Brandon Scherf has kind of been injured. He's fallen off as well. He brings toughness. I love Scherf as a pro, but it's just on the tail end of his career. So right there, the offensive line already has me worried. This run game is going to have me worried. It's very high or up and down because that's how Travis Etienne is. The receivers are...

I like Brian Thomas, but he's going to take some time. That's kind of what I always thought about him. He was a weird player for me. He moves differently. He looks like an X, but doesn't play like an X. He moves differently, but he could maybe be an X. As far as a vertical guy, he's just...

I thought he would take some time. And the fact that he ended up with the Jags, I was like, oh, maybe not there. Maybe the Chiefs? Maybe Buffalo? But with Thomas there, down the road, I might like that. This year, I think it's going to be up and down. Gabe Davis is your...

eat this what do you call it the dying sacrificial x receiver sacrificial x i was gonna say the dying x he's the he's the like king of that archetype but he really is buffalo was like let's make him our wide receiver too i wonder why they have some boom bust in the past game davis in like a very good offense yeah game davis in this where he has to eat a lot of touches no that's it's that that's that role that role has to be in a good offense i know that's

us arbitrary and we're trying to figure that out right now but yeah Christian Kirk I do like good player but he's a slot only player and that's always been this thing Evan Ingram kind of a slot receiver playing tight end so that takes away things in the run game so it's just it's a lot of just inconsistencies with this roster I they don't know who's calling plays I didn't think press Taylor when he did call plays last year or even in his prior career was overly impressive but

And just kind of a lot of left to be desired. And the fact that they're kind of still here, early practice returns. I know it's camp. It's week one. Haven't been great either. As much as I like Trevor Lawrence, I really do. And I really do think he's a star or just could be one if he has a good year.

or like a good path to a good year. It just, I just, they, they just left leave so much to be desired that I just think this can be another year. That's going to be kind of frustrating. Yeah. Part of me thinks you are hardening your heart here about the Trevor Lawrence stuff. You're preparing for preparing for the wars of this year after the, you know, especially since he's been paid, it's going to be on big media radar. So I, a part of me thinks that's why you have this pushback. Yeah.

this dread. But yeah, the play calling thing, I'm glad you brought that up. That makes no sense to me. Like why, why Doug Peterson just isn't calling the plays. I've never understood that. That's why you hire him.

That's why that's the appeal of Doug Peterson is he calls plays like I know it's I think Doug just wants to hang out and play golf. Yeah, I think he wants to pay it forward to press, which is admirable. But I get that. It's just you're not in the place to do that now. It's I like that when coaches do that. But yeah, it's I'm just I'm pretty frustrated with them. And yeah, and that's why watching Levis and the Titans offense, I actually became more bullish on them, which I didn't think to until I did really that second year quarterback study. Yeah.

Just Google search Will Levis, Nate Tice, Yahoo. You'll find it. But yeah, but a little more optimistic about them. So it's getting to take two because we're just rolling through these. What is your second take that you your half-baked take, I should say, Matt, that you have working on right now on July 30th?

Yeah, I'm going to do the opposite of what you just did, which is heart in your heart about one of your like kind of pet favorite players. You're doubling down. I'm going to I'm going to double down here, which this is this has never bitten me in the ass before when I've doubled down on this particular player. And also, this is like an outrageous thing to say. Headline Deontay Johnson was the most important player acquisition of the offseason. Yeah.

Outrageous headline. In the entire NFL. Not just Panthers. In the entire NFL. I love this. I think it's just glossed over that Bryce Young, because obviously CJ Stroud passed him up and the whole thing. This guy was the first pick in the draft that the Panthers, I mean, more than 16 months ago.

Yeah, not that long ago. The Panthers mortgaged their future for traded away their number one receiver to get this guy. And then the owner comes out afterwards like, oh, yeah, this guy actually doesn't need good receivers because he can play point guard. There was like an interview with Tepper about this. Maybe

maybe in five years when he's been in the league but not in his rookie year you can't just throw out like Jonathan Mingo playing out of position and DJ Chark is like the worst separation X receiver in the entire league you can't just do that to Bryce Young so I think having Deontay Johnson here and being able to again salvage the number one overall pick is pretty critical here and I am generally higher on consensus than Deontay Johnson because everybody knows this he's a he's a good separator I mean but I don't think he's just a good separator I think he's

straight up just one of the best separators and route runners in the league last year in reception 81st percentile success rate burst man 82nd against zone 85th against press and that was like one of his lowest seasons because he came back playing with an injury

The thing that gets me excited about Deontay and Carolina is I think they, one, just need a guy to be open for Bryce Young. I think Bryce Young is going to look like a dramatically better quarterback when he simply has somebody that, okay, I know this guy online.

on the backside of concepts is just going to be open. And if he's my first read, great. I'm going to get it out quick. But even if he's the second read, I can read out like different plays to Leggett. And if they get Mingo involved or whatever, I think just having that guy is going to be so critical. And look, I know Adam Thielen was productive last year, but this is just a different level of player. And I also trust Canales to use Deontay Johnson well, because last year with Johnson, like all the things that people typically give him crap for, Deontay Johnson is like,

Low efficiency last year, career best yards per round, but you have efficiency in that offense. Right. And I think the worst version of that offense last year, at least from a quarterback play perspective, because that's just where Kenny Pickett was career best yards per route run career, best yards per target.

career low drop rate and career high average depth of target because they were able to move him around a little bit more because Pickens was kind of that stationary X receiver. He took the most snaps I've ever charted of him like in the backfield in the slot because again, he could be detached from the formation off the line of scrimmage just wasn't stuck as that inefficient smaller X receiver and

And then the last point here, too, is I don't know if you feel the same way, Nate, but watching what Canales did with Mike Evans from a route like distribution perspective was so encouraging to me because the year prior. So the year prior with Mike Evans, where Tom Brady trying to get the ball out quick and they can't pass protect Evans ran a career high go route, go route rate, which makes no sense because Corvett's trying to get the ball out fast.

Last year, they cut his go route rate to the lowest of his career, at least in terms of reception perception. Highest slant route rate or second highest slant route rate. And then, yeah, the out routes and corner routes were also career highs. Those are Baker Mayfield really good at is the outbreakers. Yes. Oh, that's great. Those are with Baker. OK, OK.

I like all this. So just the fact that we've seen him take a guy who we know is a good player and use him in more like in more efficient ways and ways that most importantly map to what the quarterback wants to do, which is spread it out and push the ball outside the numbers, not as much read over the middle of the field. I think we can see him do something similar here with Deontay Johnson, who is a full field route runner, but is going to be able to help Bryce Young on those more over the middle plays. No, I like that a lot. The, the,

Deontay Johnson, you just mentioned that. Do you have his slot rate? Was that it? Yeah, so last year... I knew you had it handy. Of course. So the first four years that I've charted for him in Deontay Johnson, 5.7, 9.6, 5.1, 10.6. Last year, 21.1. Yeah. That's a huge jump. It was. And if you could... I mean, I noticed it, but I didn't realize that was that much higher. That's when he kind of...

he johnson kind of clicked for me i'm not a high i like him but i'm not as high as you are is i don't think anyone could be but uh but the but what he they they bumped him into the slot a little bit those outbreakers is where i was like i get you now like i i get what you are those corners those outs those sail routes those quick outs that's and you know who likes throwing those is bryce young bryce young because he's accurate doesn't have the

I mean, he has a below average arm strength. I will put NFL terms. It's below average, but he's accurate and he wants to operate on time. So he needs guys that can create yak. He needs guys that you've already mentioned all this, but ball out quick, get the ball in their hands, and then they can just get five yards for him. Ball winners are not for him. Ball winners are for, I would say Trevor Lawrence would be good with a ball winner. Herbert, maybe with a ball winner, even Dak.

with a ball winner guys have like maybe just push it outside give guys chances to back shoulder and everything Bryce Young wants to throw slants he wants to throw crossers he wants to throw quick outs so it kind of is a nice stylistic fit I like a lot and they got Mingo who I guess has come along I wasn't high on him coming out I think he's a gadgety guy he's yeah should have been a fourth rounder he is he's coming along but I understand at least trying to get a yak guy like a guy that can catch it and run the runway routes that you know Dan Bruegger talked about Xavier Leguette

same kind of thing exactly no idea what to think of him because i want to see i have to see him as a pro before i have any takes on xavier look at but he has totally but the fact that they have one guy who can just separate and like iso routes one-on-one with deontay johnson like that's going to allow you to do the those guys don't have to do it now exactly

No, I totally get it. Everyone gets to tick down a little bit. So, no, great call, Deontay Johnson. I'm glad you got to rope him in. I'm glad we got to talk about the Panthers a little bit because I always just feel like it. Canales is good. And they're going to try. And I like it. So, we're getting to Miami. We're sticking with the NFC South, actually.

And this is kind of a, I had a dark horse candidate for offensive player of the year last year. And it was this player. And that was just me trying to have someone different because I was just like, Oh, maybe it's only happened like once, but I'm going to continue. I'm running it back. So it's like a half-baked take that I kept in the oven. Bijan Robinson, the Atlanta Falcons is going to win offensive player of the year.

That is for me. We already talked about Drake London, how his fit in that offense and how much we'd like it. I wrote him as one of my breakout players. We talked about him on your show.

But Bijan, I think with this offense and this offensive coordinator, Zach Robinson, being a McVay Rams guy, also with this offensive system, with the makings of it, or offensive ecosystem, I should say, the quarterback with Kirk Cousins, be able to push the ball, create a little bit more space in this offense, Drake London's emergence. I think the passing game will just be better by default. Even though his passing game was a little better than the run game last year. Just dive into the stats, people. You'll be surprised to see that.

but with the Falcons, this offense wants to run it back in the same personnel on the same, on the field, every snap. They want to make it hard on the defense based on personnel tendencies and not, and then breaking those, or at least just changing it up every once in a while. So even though there's, there is Tyler Algier in that backfield, um,

I think it's an 80-20 split, 75-25 split where it's, hey, Bijan's taking two or three straight series where he doesn't come off the field and then Algier takes one. That's how I'm picturing this offense. And why that matters is this offense is going to be run first. It's going to be under center, which is what I think Bijan is. He's going to be good under center. I actually think he's best out pistol, which is under center, basically. But under center zone stuff, under all the play action stuff gives opportunities to check downs. Those

Those were the Todd Gurley special. They run these play actions. Goff would check it down the Gurley and he's getting 15 yards up the sideline as he gets that check down. That's B. John's really good at that, too. This offense runs screens. How many touchdowns of Kyron Williams get last year on just screens in the red zone? They're very good at those because they make them look like everything else. B. John's good at that.

No matter what offense he's in, I think he's going to be a talented player. I saw he was freaking eight. I know this does not matter, but this right before we started recording, they dropped Madden ratings. He was 82 overall, and that just blew my mind. I know he didn't have a great rookie season, but this guy's so talented. Did you see that Puka had the same overall rating as your boy Gabe Davis, too? He did, really? Yeah, I think they were both 84. Gabe Davis is 84? Yeah. That's... Wow. I know. Wow. No comment. Yeah. Wow. Wow.

Man, I got to change some takes. I guess no. But with Bijan, this offense, the quarterback play, the offensive line is fine. It's above average level. I think it's just above average. But I think they have an identity. They have an offensive system that benefits the running back that can take this type of workload.

B. John can take this type of workload. So I think this is going to be a B. John year. So he's right now he's at 20 to one, which is lower. That's on that bad MGM lower odds than fricking Saquon Barkley, who's like 16 to one same odds as bright Brees Hall, who's at 20 to one. I think B. John is a way better shot than those guys to win this award, even if I really like those players. So B. John bringing them back. Yeah.

I like this take because I know you and I both are high on a lot of the players in Atlanta. I think we're both high on just the way this offense is going to be structured. I also know that you and I are both like closet. Hey, Arthur Smith is not actually as bad as you guys think. But but the one thing that I do think was an issue with

With Bijan and multiple players in the Falcons. I always said, like, he just... Smith just kind of lost the plot, I think. He did. Because they were trying too many things. I mean, even with Bijan specifically, they drafted him and Smith just, in the opening press conference, just kind of glossed over, like, yeah, this guy's a great runner, but I think about all the other things I can do with him, which...

Yeah, because the guy's a rookie, man. And you could see sometimes with Bijan, like I remember talking to him at the Super Bowl and just talking about his head spinning after that rookie season. And he said the first conversation that he had with Raheem Morris was just like he felt completely crushed.

confident in the plan for him within this offense, which I do think he's going to be the foundation player here. Yeah, he definitely overloaded him. He got really excited about it. You can see Bijan made some bad fumbles last year on big runs. And then he also had some drops and some choice routes where he ran like a

bad route, which is not him because he's thinking choice routes. You have three options. So you could tell he was thinking so much. He had one where he fell out of the back of the end zone. Like it was like, stop running. You just stop. You catch it. It's a touchdown. So no, that's a great point to bring up there about kind of simplifying it for him, but still awesome. So we have one take each left. We'll be back in a minute to wrap it up with those last two takes. It's better over here.

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All right, we are back. One last take to send us home. What do you got for us, Matt? Yeah, before we started recording, you saw this one. You're like, you know, I haven't talked a lot about the Browns. And I feel the same way, Nate, because generally I think we all sort of agree that, hey, if the quarterback is good, this team is going to be good. But is the quarterback going to be good? And that's such a...

multi-layered and complex. Again, I'm going to be diplomatic and say complex question of whether Deshaun Watson is going to be an above average quarterback because I don't care like how many little couple of plays you show me from the Ravens game or whatever. He has not been a consistently above average quarterback with the Cleveland Browns. So it's just that I just and obviously there's all the off field stuff. They're just a tough team to talk about because it just if the quarterback's not good, does any of this really matter? But at the same time,

All these 32 teams need a little bit of attention. So I want to talk about the Browns here because I do think this is an interesting thought exercise. My take here is that I think we may need to talk about the Ken Dorsey acquisition a little bit more because I thought this was an interesting offensive coordinator hire. I don't know where you stood on Dorsey as a play caller and offensive coordinator position.

Did nothing wrong. I think the way they approached offense was good. I don't know that he was necessarily the best in-game executor, play caller, sequencing in the flow of the game. I don't always know if that was perfect. I would say that was his biggest calling card or his biggest attraction there as the offense coordinator.

that's Kevin Stefanski's, in my opinion, calling card as a play caller. And the fact that he is going to remain the play caller, I think is actually a pretty good thing here because that allows Dorsey. And we typically, I think we do this way too often. We talk about these teams at the play calling head coach. We just completely overlooked the role of the offensive coordinator. And sometimes that's smart because sometimes you have Matt LaFleur and Nate Hackett. And it's like, what is this guy doing? Other than Sean Payton and Joe Lombardi, you know? Yeah.

Sometimes it's good. Other times I do think, you know, it's at least worth exploring like what role that guy is going to have here. And specifically, I think with with Cleveland, I think they're going to improve the shotgun concepts. I think they're going to improve sort of just the spread concepts here because that was, again, the calling card of Buffalo's offense.

and it's all, it just is an interesting football thought experiment here. You know, it's the continuation of where like Watson and his stylistic tendencies mixing in with Stefanski stylistic tendencies. And I just looked at like the Joe Flacco games. Cause I think that was the most pure distillation of what Stefanski wants to do as a, as a coordinator was what they were doing with Joe Flacco, which is not what they'll ever do with Deshaun Watson. So it's just, again, very fascinating sort of team level decision-making here, but,

He was in the shotgun on 145 pass attempts. He was much more efficient under center with Joe Flacco with the Cleveland Browns last year. Won 13.5 passer rating under center compared to 80.2 when he was in shotgun. He was much more play action. The play action was 11.2 yards per attempt when he used play action versus 6.5 on non-play action plays.

I think that stuff's going to want to try to flip here. And that looks much more like the, like the Josh Allen offense. So I do find, I don't know what the results will be. I like a lot of the players on this offense and some of the play makers on this offense.

and how they would fit in sort of this new look offense. I don't know what the results are going to be, but I find the process of these two ideas marrying up to be an interesting football thought experiment. So that isn't even, that's definitely not a full baked take because I'm like, I don't know what's going to happen here, but I am curious to at least watch it unfold. It's a, it's a,

A quarter baked take with like a question mark candle in it. Yeah. Do I even want to eat the end result? Right. But the candle's lit and I like it. It's lit. Are we going to blow it out? Yeah. Then eat it afterwards. No, this was the browns are so good.

for me because their roster is actually really good, especially on defense. But offense, they've got a line, they've got receivers that are actually okay. David Joku's a good player. You want to talk about how their actual role is? Look at David and Joku with Joe Flacco.

You know, just even Amari Cooper with Joe Flacco. Deshaun is Deshaun Watson is just not a good quarterback right now. I most of his stats last year were aligned with Desmond Ritter. And I've repeated that. I'm just going to keep repeating it because Desmond Ritter was traded for Rondell Moore to the Cardinals this last season. And one of these guys is getting paid a lot of money guaranteed.

money too. But that Ravens game you even brought up, it was mostly checking it down. It wasn't like, yeah, he completed passes and he operated the offense, both screens. It wasn't like a lot of big boy throws. This type of offense, ideally with Stefanski, is under center, like you said, play action, like you said, run first, and then shot plays off of it. When Jacoby Brissett was the quarterback there, you kind of saw that in fruition. And Brissett played like a good quarterback. But this was...

Yeah, I just Watson's not real there. He's not there. Like, it's just not he's not operating as a quarterback right now. And that's, this is just on field stuff. Like, yeah, how he works through things is just not a starting quarterback level. That's why it looks so much better at Flacco because he just operated the offense. Yeah, this marriage is interesting. I liked I like where you're at, though, because I think what Dorsey was doing.

At the end there with Buffalo, it was kind of a smattering of five different worlds. They had like under center duo game with some RPOs with some under center play action. And then they spread it out and they're running two by two quick game stuff. You know, that's where Duncan Cade was starting to eat before, you know, kind of got fired before Dorsey got fired and everything. So I think, yes, it's going to be further marriage, but it's only as far as good as Deshaun Watson goes. But I'm glad you got you. We got to talk about this.

I don't know when Nick Chubb's coming back. He's on PUP. Yeah, at least not to start the season. Because he's the offense. But that's sort of almost him not being there is just another level of what I'm talking about here is that I think whatever the old world was is officially over. It's done, done. With Dorsey being here and with Nick Chubb not being a part of it. Callahan gone. Yeah, right. With Callahan gone. This is so strange to say because, again, Stefanski is –

a really good head coach. One coach a year twice now, right? Like good, but we, and we want to move away from his world or what his world has been, at least as a offensive play caller and designer and whatever into a different world. That's so strange, but that's just the, that is the bed and the reality that the, that the Browns have chosen to sleep in. So I think seeing if they can pull that off is extremely fascinating to me. Cause like you said, they, I like some of these players here. I mean,

And to me, Nate, I don't know if this is I hate to bring this up at the hour mark of the podcast because we could probably talk about this for 30 to 45 minutes. Brett, a producer here, is going to push me off my seat for saying this. But to me, I've started to think about quarterback play being less results driven and less like the throws you make and more about the throws that you you

You pass up. Oh, yeah. When I watch quarterback Watson, like and I say this is a guy who believes that Amari Cooper has played his best football in a Cleveland Browns uniform. A guy that Elijah Moore like I'm watching him open on some of these routes and he just doesn't throw these routes. That is why it's tough with Watson, because I think he epitomizes this. I don't care about the results in the plays. You you you the completions you make. I care more about the plays you passed up.

I don't know. That's where I struggle with the Watson thing, but I do find it fascinating to see if they could pull this transition off. No. Yeah. Don't get me going on offensive philosophy, quarterback philosophy. Quarterbacks got to have balls. They do. They got to try stuff. And then if you throw picks in practice, who cares? That's why the interception stuff with Josh Allen I get frustrated at. It's because he's trying stuff. You can't reach these –

unattainable highs that shouldn't be attainable. Like really some of these throws and these things that these elite quarterbacks do, like I would still watch and I'm just like,

Sure. Like, I can't believe you just did that. Go for it. They're doing an NFL game. It's not even high school or college. It's insane to me. But they have to try it. Well, you don't just try that and do it once. And you're like, OK, never doing that again. Like you have to do in practice. You have to do it in the game once or twice, maybe get punished once or twice. That's just how it goes. So, yeah, that's kind of what I always just kind of come back to. That's why, you know, I'm a huge Drake May guy and Caleb.

But with Drake Mayo, it was just like he tries stuff. Like he pushes the ball. This is why I'm always – people think it's arm strength with me. They think, oh, you're just like big quarterbacks that throw far. It's like, well, it just happens to be that those quarterbacks are the ones right now that do the things that are good. Like, yeah, so maybe I do like that because that's good quarterback play to me. But getting back to what you're saying, those add up. If you're turning down five doubles –

You know, that are available for you to hit five singles. Yeah, you got on base five times, but wouldn't you rather be on second all five times? Like, you know, just those like those add up. Those are first downs that you have to achieve. Those are first downs where you don't have to be perfect three other times because you've got those 30 yards on the other play.

So, yeah. Oh, yeah. You can get me going for another 20 minutes. I see the messages popping right now. But I'll just get to my last take to wrap this up. This was one I just want to talk about them because I didn't really get to talk about them in the top offenses. And maybe I should save this for next week's episode, which is Frisky Teams, which we'll be talking about the Cardinals on that one with Charles. So don't you guys worry. But this is a different NFC West team. And that's my take is half big take. The Seahawks will make the playoffs.

And not where I thought I was going to be going with this exercise. Trust me. But this team, I think right now is projected. They're over under win total seven and a half games. This team won nine games last year with what I thought was a porous defense. I think they in offensive line that fell apart and crippled the whole offense and

I think they got better offensive line play, even if they lost a guard. I just think with improvements, I like the guy they drafted. I just think health luck will help. I think Charles Cross, the left tackle, will be back to his rookie kind of flashes. I think they have two workable running backs, even if I like Charbonnet a little better than Walker. Walker's explosive. It's not like he's bad. He's just a different type. They have three workable receivers. I think one of them being Young, who I think is just going to grow this year, and Jackson Smith and Jigba,

But they also have, you know, DK Metcalf, Tyler Lockett, my last pick in our dynasty draft. And also, I keep mentioning them every single time I mention them now. The tight ends, I didn't like that they lost Kobe Parkinson, but I also like the draft pick, AJ Barner, who, you know, tight ends are a rookie. You only can expect so much, but at least they try to fill that role.

I think the offensive coordinator is good. I like Ryan Grubb from Washington. I think he does cool stuff. And I also think this offensive fit makes sense with the quarterback that pushes the ball in Geno with maybe just the run game and also just the receivers and what they do with the receivers. They're going to be asked to do some dirty work, but I like that. And I just think the defense, some that I think that some of why I think people think the defense is going to fall off is name recognition.

Bobby Wagner, who I respect the hell out of and is going to be a Hall of Famer, hasn't been a quality starter in three years now. And really, even last year was a below average starter. And Jamal Adams, too, because injuries caught up with him. His role is kind of weird as well. He was ended up being kind of negative player for the Seahawks team. I wrote about him late in the season, kind of like they kind of made this bed.

You can't bench Bobby Wagner and Jamal Adams, even if they're your two or worse starters along the spine. I think the defense's front is interesting. I like Devin Witherspoon's a star in the slot that I think McDonald's going to do great things with. Julian Love got paid, but he's okay.

But, you know, and then they signed Rayshawn Jenkins from the Jags, who's interesting, but I think McDonald, again, is going to use him well. So I just like the makeup. I think they got some improvement with their coaching staff. I really think the defense was – it was bad last year, like just rules-wise too. I just think they're going to get improvement. Even if it's like 20th or 18th, I think that's improvement. And this offense was an honorable mention top 10 offense for me. I think this offense is going to be better than people think just because of health.

That's really what I keep coming back to. So, yeah, I think the Seahawks can make a, you know, be one of those nine and eight teams, you know, sneak into the playoffs. Like there's a chance of that as much as there is for a chance, I think, for them to hit their under of seven and a half wins. Yeah, I can get there with you on the offense being better than people think, basically.

I mean, I know we have a breakout players episode coming up in a few weeks, and so maybe I'll save a lot of my JSN notes for that because I feel like in a couple weeks I'm going to get myself to think that he's going to lead this team in receiving. Just the more I think about his role in this offense and the fact that it's a

Really good fit. He lines up so well with a lot of the Jalen Polk stuff of this offense, like the routes and the whole thing. So, yeah, I'll say that because if I bake that take for about a week or two more, I think I can get a fully formed dish there. I'll be right there with you. I'll put frosting on that one. Perfect. Perfect. Look at us. Just a couple of chefs. But the defense I do, like, look, Mike McDonald's defense was my favorite to watch on film last year because just like they threw so much at Colby.

quarterbacks and they put quarterbacks in a blender. You know, obviously like that's why he's sort of been labeled as the Shanahan

Coach Tree, Killer, and the whole thing. That will be fascinating in this very division. But I do just wonder if that's going to take a minute to get there. Talk about something that needs to bake. Initially, with the Ravens, there were these games when McDonald started to take over. That Dolphins game, I think week two of his first season, where they're busting coverages left and right. I'd wonder if that defense takes a minute to get up to speed. But by the end of the year, it looks like a team that's ready to rock. Plus, just, man, like...

you're excited about the Cardinals, but we all expect the Niners to be the Niners again. We love the Rams offense. Yeah. This is going to be a tough division, buddy. That's why, that's why I don't know if I could get fully like they're going to make the playoffs and just the, the defense might take a minute, but I do understand the optimism for the roster and the way the coaching fits here. Yeah. And also is Roquan Smith coming with you?

Right. That's, you know, I mean, I like Devin Witherspoon. Yeah. But it's great. He's really good. He's also not like a but he's not like a pterodactyl like Kyle Hamilton in the middle of the year. Kyle Hamilton is like this long range smart player and Witherspoon is just a heat seeking missile. That's yeah. I compared him to the pistol from Halo.

Oh, God. He's a headshot specialist. Many afternoons and evenings wasted on Halo. That's what he is. Yeah, that's my comparison for him. Just useful. It could just snipe you with three shots. Yeah, but it's one of these. I think maybe the take really, if I was fully formed, is more once we get into our win totals pod.

Spoilers, spoilers. Is that I would say, oh, they're over seven and a half, maybe than playoffs. But yeah, I'm just curious at it. But no, that was a lot of fun. I'm glad we got to throw these out there into the wilderness. See them spin around a little bit. But we're closing out today. We'll be here on Thursday. Another episode, Charles McDonald. I'm Nate Tice. You can find me at Nate underscore Tice on Twitter. That is Matt Harmon. You can find him at Matt Harmon underscore B-Y-B. Bring your own.

Backyard banter. My original website. It's like, so I always say that, you know, cause it's, it's like you, once you get a tattoo, you S on you for life. Right? Like, so the underscore B Y B that's just, it's, it's tattooed to the Twitter handle. I like that though. It's the stands out. Cause you're not Matt Harmon football, you know, NFL. Yeah. Yeah.

Matt Harmon RP could work too. Yeah, maybe. But yeah, please subscribe to this. If you like Football 301, even if you don't subscribe to us, but follow us, rate us five stars. Hopefully you can watch us on YouTube, youtube.com slash Yahoo Sports. You'll find my show. You found Matt's and all the fancy stuff in five days a week now.

That's where you are next week. Next. Yeah. Soon enough. It's coming. I should know the schedule off the top of my head, but I went with three days a week this week and then you have five days. Okay. Five days a week. Check that out. Make sure you check out all of Yahoo stuff. My stuff, Matt stuff, Charles stuff. Camp is rolling plenty of stuff on there. We will be back every Thursday, every Tuesday and Thursday, I should say, but also make sure you get those mailbag questions rolling in. We've gotten a few to our email. So thank you. But that email is football three, one mailbag at Yahoo sports.com. That is fantastic.

football 301 mailbag at Yahoo sports.com. Emails are great videos, voice notes, even

Even better. I want to hear your voice. I want to hear you yelling at me about my Eagles offense take or Ravens offense take. Those were some fun comments that we had. How about we hyped up the Falcons offense and neither of us had them in our top 10? Charles did. Just Homer Charles McDonald did. Thanks for those notes. Thanks, Charles. But yeah, but thanks to Brett, Adi, Joe, Beyond the Scenes. They do a great job. Thank you to everybody. We'll be back on Thursday. We'll see you guys then.