2025 NFL Draft deep dive with Dane Brugler & NFL Week 11 preview
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On this episode of Football 301.

First, Charles McDonald joins me to preview week 11. We look at five games. Well, one thing that we're watching, which turned into two things, which turned into three things. But we preview week 11, a really juicy slate of games. Then a very special guest, Dane Brugler from The Athletic, who just dropped his top 50 big board for the 2025 NFL Draft, joins me. We have a big board off. It was a ton of fun talking about the prospects with Dane Brugler.

Really fun show. See you guys in a sec. As a parent, you want what's best for your teen. You want them to grow and thrive in this world, but you also want to make sure they're staying safe. That's why Instagram is introducing teen accounts with automatic protections for who can contact teens and the content they can see. Instagram teen accounts, built-in limits for teens and peace of mind for parents. Learn more at instagram.com slash teen accounts.

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Hello, welcome back to Football 301. I'm your host, Nate Tice. Very fun episode today. Going to jump into a week 11 preview with my guy, Charles McDonald, and then going to do a big board off with Dane Brugler from The Athletic, my old coworker who just dropped his big board. It's the top 50. I have a top 50. We're going to pair top 50s. It's going to be a lot of fun. But before we do that, I am not forgetting that we have an NFL games podcast.

a slate of NFL games this weekend, and the draft is in six months. So I'm not just dropping week 11 and just putting it by the wayside. Like I said before, to help me preview the games, we're going to do one thing on five games. My guy, Charles McDonald. How are you doing today, Mr. Vert? I'm doing good. It's funny because when we got the plan for this podcast, I was like, oh, this must be just a crappy week of games. And then I started thumbing through it yesterday, and I was like, oh, wait, no, there's some heavy hitters who

So I'm glad that we get to just kind of zoom through it so that people have less things to get mad at us for if we speak less. Right. Like when you don't get an injury or you don't know about an injury because practices on Thursday haven't happened. Please don't get mad at us that.

Taylor Decker was not playing, wasn't on the injury report until that point. But anyways, yeah, like you said, we're going to zoom through this rather than do a bit. I mean, like you said, there's a bunch of juicy matchups, so it's kind of hard to parse it. So what we're gonna do, we pick five and we are going to just do our kind of a one thing like we do at the typically at the end of the podcast, but we're going to do it for these five games and

let's go with the Haas fight. This is a, this is a staple. I think of our generation is this game. It's always a night game. It always feels like too, but Ravens Steelers, definitely the Haas fight Charles watching this, you know,

slugfest what is the one thing that you are checking out for it i like that we didn't even talk about what the host fight was uh and like this is just the obvious choice for it uh i love these games like i i grew up uh went to high school outside baltimore i have been to honestly more ravens games and falcons games in my life uh and i was at the uh

The game where Mike Tomlin may or may not have walked onto the field to trip. Oh, you were? Yeah, to trip the late Jacoby Jones. I was in the nosebleed seats where all the rabid fans are. And I was concerned for Mike Tomlin's safety, like making it out of that stadium after that play happened. So this is what, like this is still one of the premier rivalries in the league. And I think it's about to get its juice back because it was dormant for a little bit.

towards the end of the Flacco run, but we're back. I think the interesting thing here is as long as Lamar Jackson has been a Raven, this is only his fifth game against

against the Steelers because they had the weird game that they played on Wednesday one year and he was either out or sick with COVID. Then there was one year where it was late in the season and they already had a playoff seed locked up so he didn't play. So he hasn't had too much exposure against the Steelers. But the numbers would suggest that this is like his kryptonite team just based on past performances against the Steelers. But I think...

Think that they have a chance to buck the trend this week. If you go back and you watch that game that they played in Pittsburgh last year, Lamar was awesome in that game. The stats do not tell the whole story. They legitimately dropped like three or four touchdowns that were perfectly placed. So it's not like he can't perform against his team. It's just, you know, sometimes in rivalry games, weird things happen.

But as far as just like on the field, I want to see if the Ravens can stay out of third and long, because I remember last year, that was some of the areas where they got gotten, especially at the end of the game when TJ Watt just gets to pin his ears back and close the game with a strip sack. Like he does. It feels like eight times a year. I,

But the weird, it's like the one split that the Ravens aren't great at this year, which is kind of interesting. It's like the average distance to a first down on third down, the 24th in the league. Interesting. When you think about how well they run the ball. Right. Oh, interesting. Maybe because they're explosive and so inefficient, maybe. Yeah, that's interesting. And I mean, it's kind of interesting because when you start actually looking at

what separates like let's say like the ranked one it's like a yard right it's not even it's not even a full yard most of the time uh but still you know they're 24th in that category so i would be a little bit worried about you know getting into spots where the steelers can pin their ears back but

Also, at the same time, I'm not so worried that I would expect them to lose this game. I think the fight up front is going to be a whole lot of fun. The Steelers have several horses on their defensive line, and we know how good the Ravens running game has been this year. So really just how good are you on third and long? Because I think those areas in the margin and some of those high leverage plays are where this game is going to be made.

Yeah. That side of the ball is beef on beef. Like it's, it's a good one on that one. Like, and the stewards actually have the physicality to match the Patrick or car Derek Henry looks like they actually will take it to them. So no, I think that's a great point with the third and long stuff. Also too, I will flip onto the other,

other side of the ball, which is good because this is kind of a quasi-house fight as well. The Ravens' run defense is phenomenal. Their pass defense gives up a ton of explosives, but their run defense makes it a slog. That's where they can come downhill versus Simpsons playing well. Just also their defensive linemen

Can create some explosives for defense as far as TFLs, like Matt Abike and the others up there, our co-worker Kyle Van Noy. And also, they're smart on defense as far as just understanding where the bodies have to be, putting the numbers there. Again, they give up explosive passes. But again, what are the Steelers going to do on offense? They're going to pound the freaking rock. And that's looked better. Our guy, Zach Frazier, the center, looks awesome.

amazing that came out. So he looked so good. He's so smart. He's so good. Mason McCormick, the right guard, another rookie look good. Isaac Smulo, the left guard looks good. So they, they got some, you know, they're improving because of health. These young guys kind of getting more reps. Najee Harris is going to get touches. Jalen Warren's going to get touches. This is the formula for the Steelers. They're going to pound the rock, get into a strike range and let Russ throw a moon ball. And then you hope that you hit on two or three of those.

even if you go 40 60 on that you throw eight of them and hit three of them that's all you need like that i mean just look at what happened last week he hit two that's all they needed like i think maybe three but that's all this offense needs it's not going to be a nickel and dime pass game that's not the design that's not how russell wilson plays and that's not what arthur smith even prefers so um i mean i'm that's it's an interesting kind of formula it's strength on strength in the run games but then

you know, the Steelers pass game is volatile, but you're going against a volatile pass defense. So to be kind. Yeah. Yeah. I'm being nice. I'm being nice. I was suggesting good sometimes, you know, I know. Right. I know. I actually, when I said that, I was like, I don't know. Uh, wonky and I even boom bus. Cause there's no booms. This was a lot of buds. Um, so yeah, it's going to, I really think it's going to come down to how those eight,

Deep shots work out like that. That's how that feels on that side of all, but I'm excited to watch it. Good house fight. Uh, the Steelers. Oh, I'm sorry. The Ravens are three point favorites at Pittsburgh. Do you have a prediction for this one?

I think the Ravens win this one. I'm going to, I think Lamar has another nice game against them. And this time the receivers catch their passes and they get across the finish line. But it's going to be, it's going to be a slugfest for sure. Yeah. That's how I look at it. Yeah. I think it's a Ravens win Steelers cover.

type of game. Like, I think this is not even a one score game. I think this is a field goal or under game. But like you said, the vision game, Tom was going to get his guys rolling. This is a really fun one. I'm excited to check it out. All right, moving on to another AFC brew. Ha ha.

We have the Chiefs and the Bills, and these feel like they're always classics. When you're watching Chiefs-Bills, Charles, I should give the spread too, just in case you're into that. The Bills are two-point favorites at home, so almost an even game here. When you're watching this game, Charles, what are you checking out? I feel like this is just another game where the Chiefs can just

you're going to be nickel and diamond and winning within the margins. I, again, I defaulted to third and long conversions or, you know, third down stats for this game because you're becoming a coach. I know, I know getting back to my roots a little bit, the more with every episode I do of this podcast. All right. So low red zone, they do that. That's how I started like breaking it down a little bit before we started doing this game. I know.

Just that will never be cure of the sickness. But the Chiefs are first and third and long conversions. Like my homes has just been awesome there. The bills are 28th and third and long defense, which is pretty interesting. I think maybe that's where you start to see some of the retooling that they've done this off season, not always being up to like the full standard that they've had over the past couple of years. And I think that that's kind of where,

the Chiefs can get them just, you know, in the margins. Third down, if they can get to the red zone, trying to score there and improve their rate there. But really just the plays, like the high leverage plays where Mahomes has to be Mahomes, Josh Allen has to be Josh Allen because I kind of think these teams are fairly evenly matched.

going into this game. But you have just two superhuman quarterbacks that are really capable of just putting the entire load on their own shoulders and carrying it across. The other thing that I found interesting as well, as good as the Bills and Chiefs defense have been on, you know, over the course of the season, the Bills are 24th in dropback success rate. The Chiefs are 25th in dropback success rate on defense. So,

Could be a potential for some fireworks here. Yeah. Either peppering on Mahomes' side and probably fireworks on Josh Allen's side. Yeah. This game was... I almost wish we did the deep dive, so I'm going to just use this excuse to kind of do it. Our show, we can do what we want. Mahomes against cover two. The Bills are really leaning into cover two, and that fascinates me. They had the natural answer, which is a boring run game, which is going to work. That's how you...

What you do against cover two, run, run, run, run, run. And they can do that. It's not going to get explosives, but they're going to be efficient. They're still a very efficient offense. But this is going to be a big Teron Johnson game, the slot player for the Bills, who's phenomenal. The Chiefs will trot out tight ends. The Bills will do no matter what, they're going to match with nickel, with five DBs. Johnson is a big part of that. Mahomes has been sacked five times this year, almost a 10% rate against cover two.

He has a good success rate. It's above 50%. His air yards per completion against cover two this year is 2.8 yards.

I'm going to repeat that. His air yards per completion against cover two is 2.8 yards. And then I stripped away and I was like, all right, I'm going to take out, you know, because they throw some screens against cover two. All right, I'm going to take that out. Nope. Still fifth lowest air yards per attempt. Even if you just take out all the other routes. And even when you include those other routes and take out the screens, Mahomes is 31 to 40, 58% success rate.

nickel and dime fest on this side of the ball. This is going to be, I think, a Juju Smith-Schuster, if he's fully healthy game, a Travis Kelsey game. I think that this team, this defense, can be susceptible to that stuff, the peppering over the middle in the run game. So if you're looking for fireworks from the Chiefs as far as big plays, I don't know. I think it's going to be an Ichiro type attack. We'll have singles and doubles from the Chiefs side. Also, the Bills are out.

So on the other side, Bill's are out. Don't can, or don't Kincaid did not practice. Samari Cooper and limited practice. Keanu Coleman's out. Spencer Brown did not practice as well. And that's kind of, I want to, I want to know the health of Kincaid and Cooper, especially because the chiefs have a really good defense. They're really good against the run. They do not allow explosive plays. They give up the fewest explosive plays in the NFL, but they,

They are bad against tight end and slot targets because they do all the SPAC stuff, you know, and then the freaking George Carl Loftus trying to run with a tight end 20 yards down the field. They, the chiefs have allowed 77 yards a game to tight ends, 32nd in the league, 64% success rate, 28th in the league allowed, uh,

to slot 92 yards a game 0.6 29th in the nfl 62 success rate allowed to slot targets 32nd in the nfl that little middle area of the field should be a prime kincaid game so get your butt out there he's got to play like this is a huge game and opportunity for him so give me checking that out like they give up don't give a lot of explosives and it's a good defense but there are start spots that josh allen could kind of do his thing at so i'm excited for this one too this is uh

They always kind of had, when you have these two juggernauts kind of going against each other every year, the new layers they all add is a lot of fun. So predictions, like I said, bills are two point favorites at home, 45 and a half point over under, by the way, man, I saw the, the, the witchcraft, the chiefs pulled my last play on Sunday. I'm not picking against them chiefs. And you know what? I'll do bills just for fun. Just so we're on the other sides. I'll go bills. When by field goal,

This is going to be a doozy. The average tickets, because it's on the website right now, the lowest ticket price of this Bills game is $234. Look,

lowest price for the Steelers games, $255, most expensive ones. So that's how we should just pick games. What's the average ticket price? Well, we'll add a bunch of Giants and Jets games. I don't know if we should do that. True, true. It won't be Falcons and Titans games, I can tell you that. Actually, the Jets tickets this week are 29 bucks lowest. Okay. So maybe...

All right. Now we're going to go to fire through the rest of these. So we got Bengals Chargers, kind of almost a loser leaves town kind of match. I don't know. The Chargers kind of have stacked some wins, but maybe for how I feel about these teams is maybe more than anything. Watching this game, though, Bengals Chargers. Chargers are one and a half point favorites at home Sunday night football in L.A. What are you checking out in it?

What we talked about before, this is going to be one of the first like real deal offenses that the Chargers have seen in terms of just like top tier talent, even without T. Higgins, who I think Jeremy Fowler reported he's probably going to be out for the rest of the year.

today. My contract's not signed, so I'm not surprised. I wouldn't step foot in that field either. Jamar Chase is braver than me. Higgins is going to get 30 mil in six months. I want to see his tag band. Just wait it out. But even without him, they've still been able to rip off big plays. Burrow and Chase are kind of

playing absolutely out of their minds right now. And it's not just the, you know, two games against the Ravens. Like those guys have really been clicking over, you know, since their slow start at the start of the season. I, I wrote down, is this a, is this a hashtag Cruden rankings game? Like you'll see in college where you'll see like some blue chip ratio. Yeah.

Yeah, a blue chip ratio game where, oh, you know, here's 12-0 and I'm foreshadowing. Here's 12-0 Indiana versus 10-2 Ohio State. Oh, no, it's 41-13 Ohio State, you know, by the end of the game. I don't think it's going to be that extreme. But, you know, I do think just in terms of like,

where are our best players, that could be an edge for the Bengals. But the Chargers defense has been so well coached. The offense, they probably should have a lot of success against the Bengals defense, especially with how they want to play. So this is kind of like a fun styles make fights game. But I think I'm going to roll with the Bengals. Just I think it's a big game for Chase.

Yeah, that's kind of what I looked at too. And it's Joe Burrow versus Jesse Mentor, the defense coordinator for the Chargers. That's what you're checking out in this game. And Justin Herbert highlights. So two awesome quarterbacks playing

Both of them playing like top five MVP candidates right now, maybe even top four when you parse it. But like you mentioned, Chargers defense, they face the 32nd ranked schedule by DVOA. 32nd meaning the easiest. They're on non-adjusted stats. They're top three in everything you look at. But like you said, this is just a great test. They don't make mistakes. They have really good game plans, especially on third down. But

it's a lot easier going against you know jamis winston than joe burrow and and and the and everything that they're doing with the past game there so yeah i think it's the third downs of what i'm checking out stealing one of your things but uh from the other games checking out the third downs because that's where mentor and chargers show off and the bangles stay out a lot third longs they get a lot of 30 mediums because they're they're so efficient so yeah how does burrow and

and mitigate anything how's what does mentor throw at him kind of i know you want to go to jamar chase are we going to let that happen are we going to force you to run the ball again all things easier said than done so uh yeah really excited to check this one out uh you said bangles pull it off i think i think i'm with you on that which is the bangles will never die they're the goonies that's that's what that are you a goon i've seen it one time

Okay. I was not in a state of mind in terms of my brain to remember everything that happened, but I have seen it. That's also like, I'm like on the tail end. Like this is like our little age difference gap. Like I'm on the tail end of Goonie years. I'm sure Brett is all over this right now. But yeah, that's a good one. I don't know. Goonie's poster somewhere. All right. Next up. I threw this one in for you. This is, this is Falcons Broncos. Terrified.

at Denver. Broncos are two and a half point favorites. What are you checking out in this game? I think if we're going to keep the theme on our down splits, I think if the Falcons aren't good on the first and second down, they get nuked in this game. I don't think they have a chance. Do Kirk Cousins against this defense, stationary in the pocket? I don't know. That sounds like a pretty bad time to me. And as good as Drake London and Darnold Mooney have been,

these cbs can absolutely certain can erase either one of them and riley moss can hold his own after sure so i think it's gonna be a tough game if you can't run the ball this week i would imagine they probably don't win this game yeah i mean yeah they're built they're built around that awesome run game i i'm fascinated yeah this is the side of the ball what you said there at the end there's certain amos versus london mooney do the broncos travel certain a little bit

On London, do you just say, hey, we're going to race him, but then London lines up in the slot, does a lot of dirty work stuff. Are they comfortable with Sertan in the middle there? Sertan's a good tackler. That's like an underrated thing with this game. He's physical and will tackle. Nick Saban was not when that happened. You're filling the run, man. But I'm with you on that. That's what I'm just checking out. It's just how they take that away because...

They know Bijon is the straw that stirs the drink of this offense and what they're going to try and do and run a ton of zone runs. Are they going to have really knife stuff, you know, do a lot of movement of the front and try and make it them edgy. So I think the run game and when every run is going to be not as like, you know, tempo, tempo, like, you know, like a metronome, I think for the Falcons, it's going to be more boom bust than I think we typically see the run game. So yeah, that, yeah, that side of the ball is good.

The other side is like, what do you guys got? Maybe we see some magic, some magic estimate. We'll see some more of him. He looked pretty good last week. So and then, you know, Bo Nix is doing better, I will say. And then I just think that Sean Payton is freaking cooking right now. His stuff's really good. He threw the kitchen sink out last week. Oh, my God. Marvin Mims backfield touches like he's just he threw everything at the Chiefs last week. Prediction for the game other than Payne.

I think the Broncos win a low scoring one. Okay. Over under is 44 and a half. Yeah, I'll take the under. Yeah, I think Broncos take this too. I'm with you on that one. All right. Last one. Wrapped us up with Charles. We have an NFC North battle. One of the longest rivalries, the longest rivalry in the NFL.

We got Packers Bears. Anything happening in Chicago this week? The Packers are now five-point favorites. They were over six points at one point. So this is at Chicago. Packers are five-point favorites. What are you watching in this NFC North tilt, Charles? Do the Bears show any sign of life yet? That's really the whole thing. Because...

This Packers defense is gettable. We talked about teams and players playing within the margins. I don't know if any group embodies that more than the Packers defense, where if you look at down-to-down, they kind of suck. But they get turnovers. They're getting off the field when they need to. They're getting turnovers. So it's flimsy, but it's working for now. The Bears, if you have any heart,

or, you know, just balls, fortitude, like, let's go. Your season's not over. You're 4-5. Still have a chance to make something out of it. I think that they could give the Packers a game if they're on top of what they're, you know, on top of their program, but it just seems to be like a mess over there. So I really just want to see, it's not really like stats or breakdown related, like, are you just going to show some signs of life because your season's not over and there's no reason to be acting like you're a 1-9 team at 4-5. Yeah.

And also the Bears players sure seem to have a lot of opinions in the media. It's like, Jesus, why don't you guys just take care of your own stuff before you start spouting out? I'm watching you guys. Some of you vets out there that are talking in the media, you guys aren't like above this. So, you know, Shane, like losing, you know, chopping off Shane Waldron is probably going to help in some ways. Like they have to find some ways to kind of make this offense all better.

you know, more synchronized, look more like a Rams offense. And Thomas Brown is, has some Rams background with today. He has a background everywhere. He coached at Wisconsin for one year. Uh, but he, uh, we, well, maybe do we see some more of that? Maybe see some stuff that's not as siloed. Um, they need it. Uh, I mean, like you said, the season's not done. They still have like a good defense. The offense can have like stuff like their run games, not bad. They still have receiving talent, but,

They just have to figure out their personnel and everything. The Packers, though, coming out of the bye last year is when they really ascended. They had an early bye last week, but then after that, they only had like one negative expected points game after that on offense. They just started cooking as their young players started going. Kind of want to see them do the same thing this year. Just another year. They're still the youngest team or at least youngest offense. So again, do they ascend coming out of the bye week? Jordan Love gets a week to heal his groin. So now we can see some more trick shots.

Hurt groin, Jordan Love. We didn't get to see the trick shots, and it makes me sad. So I want to see that groin looking good. Oh, that sounded bad. But anyways, we got the— They needed the bye week. We'll say that. They really needed the bye week. Yeah, they needed the bye week. That's a good way to put it. Yeah, so I want to see them ascend out of it. But yeah, Bears are 5-point underdogs. Prediction for the game? Packers, maybe in a blowout.

Yeah, I think, yeah. And like one of those painful blowouts where it's like you're just slow. Because the Bears defense is still good. Slow bleed in the second half. Right. Slow bleed where it's like 7-0 at halftime. You look up, it's 27-0 at the end of the game. Something like that. Or it's the, they're down 10. Like it's a 17-7. They're down 10. They're driving on offense. And then they throw a pick.

Or a fumble in the red zone. Packers drive down 24-7 and we go, wow, they lost by 17. Everyone's packing their stuff on the sideline. You just hear the noise. And then you got David Bakhtiari posing in the end zone. That's what we see in these games. No, that was fun. We got through all these. We got through one thing. Thank you, Charles, for joining me.

I mean, Charles and I have something cooking, by the way, or not this weekend, but coming soon, you'll start. We're going to have a little, little extra football three, one for you guys. A little Sunday recaps hitting your ears a little quicker. So just want to drop a little hand on that, that we'll start cooking on that pretty soon.

Thank you, Charles. Aren't you out of the game? I'll be at Jets Colts this week. That's why we're not starting our new little project, which, dude, I was a little worried. And then I requested to go on Monday, and I was like, this might suck, but I really want to go cover a game. And then Richardson got announced back. I was like, let's go. We got juice again. Let's do it. It's not Adam Gase's Jets again.

uh, kind of a little bit. Uh, yeah, that'll be fun for you. Thanks Chuck for joining me. Where can they find you? Uh, you can find me on Twitter at four verts. You can find me on blue sky at four verts. Um, I, I haven't really posted much there cause I, I don't remember my login, so I can't use it on the computer. So I haven't like posted any film or anything like that. I'm just tweeting on my, you know, it's still, it's still tweeting. I'm still tweeting on blue sky from my phone, but yeah, I'm over there. Also be on the, uh,

Dominique Fox's Fox News show this week. Wherever you can check us out, we are all over the place all the time. Yes, we are. Well, thank you again for Charles. You'll hear us next week. We also got a mock draft next week. But now, we're going to have Dane Brugler on to compare our big boards.

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I miss saying that every week, but I'm very excited for this. My former coworker at The Athletic, The Athletic's draft expert, Dane Brugler, who has just unveiled his updated Top 50 Big Board. Very excited to go through it with you. How are you doing today, Dane? So good to see you. How are you, my friend? I mean, we obviously talk offline, but this is the first time we've been on a podcast together in a while, so it feels good.

I know that's because you get awakened every,

Every three months. And it's just like, is it beast time? No, it's beast 0.5 time. Right now you're half. You're getting there. Oh, those character reports already starting to come in. You're getting there. I could share some stuff. And this is the tough part of that because I get a lot of that info from scouts that are, oh, this is the worst guy I've met with all fall. And it's like, all right, what do I do with this information? You know, like how do I...

Because obviously I'm not going to come out and just say that about a player, but I might bake it into the rankings a little bit. So if you see a player that's maybe a little bit lower for me, maybe something like that has some of the character stuff has to do with it. But yeah, that's always a tricky part of this. Read between the lines sometimes. Well, I mean, the Jermaine Burton one held up.

That was one you're always, man, why isn't this guy a top 50 guy? Whoa! You know? Yeah. And then there he is getting yelled at by Joe Burrow, missing practices at a casino the night before the game. So maybe these character reports we should do with something. Two different staffs that have dealt with so many personalities that are both like, eh, yeah, not for us. So yeah, that should have been a little clue about that. But yeah.

Like I said, Dane has a big board. I had mine on Yahoo a couple of weeks ago, but Dane's is, like I said, he is the beast. He does actually the beast every year, which make sure you check that out. Subscribe to it. PDF form. I don't know if it's going to be paper form anymore, but PDF, you can download it. Okay. Okay. It's a phenomenal resource for me. Name pronunciations is worth the price of admission anyways.

which I'm sure I'll stumble through a few. Some of these guys are like, I've only written. And you know what I mean? Like I watch them on film and write about them, but I never hear like a TV broadcast say their name or anything, which are always 50-50 anyways. So yeah, so you might be teaching me a few or we might be working through a few on this. But overview of the class, we're going to start with that. Then we're going to do a little big board comparison. But Dane, you finished your top 50 plus 20 more. I saw you had another article out there.

The best position so far as we are at the halfway point of the 2025 and really quarter point of the 2025 draft big board process. What's the best position that stood out to you?

I have to go defensive line and take your pick between edge rusher and defensive tackle. Nine of my first 20 in my top 50 were defensive line. So it's a top heavy group. But then I also, I think both spots, defensive tackle and the edge guys are,

well represented throughout this draft. So day two, day three, I mean, some of my favorite day two players are on the defensive line. Jared Ivy at Ole Miss, Alfred Collins, Texas, Jordan Birch, Oregon, guys that maybe didn't sneak into that top 50, but they're going to be on NFL rosters next year.

and be valuable parts of a rotation. And then, you know, maybe they can work into a starting role from there. So this is a draft class where if you want to get better on the defensive line, there are going to be plenty of options for you to do that. Yeah. And what's kind of cool is there's some tweeners in a good way, types like, you know, wants that. I mean,

A guy I have to give my shout out to, Jack Sawyer. But then also just like a guy like Deion Walker from Kentucky, who we both kind of struggled with a little bit. But he's a 6'6 guy that moves that nose tackle, three-tack, D-end. I still just say D-L for my position thing because I don't see him really as a nose. I see him as kind of a three or a four-eye or something like that. But no, I think that's hitting a nail on the head. Some risers in that. Even going into this year, I thought...

edge and D-line was kind of what stood out to me going into the summer. But I mean, other guys rose up for you. I mean, I'll spoil one of them, Derek Harmon from Oregon, who, you know, screw it, we'll just get into it. Defense tackle from Oregon. I think he was 21 on my big board. He is 14 on your big board. I thought I was going to be the high guy on him. And you got it. We went off on me, but speak about Harmon, because for me, he was one of the biggest risers. He went from a guy that

I glanced at kind of thought maybe, you know, third, fourth or some stuff, but really transferring to Oregon really stood out. But what'd you like about him to shoot so high to now like a top 15 player for you?

Yeah. I mean, it's just, it's all about disruption, right? If you have defensive tackles and he's a defensive tackle, but he also plays D end and that kind of like a, yeah, like a three man front. And so he'll be a three technique. He'll be a more of a five or a DN when they go to an odd front. So, but he has, he's reshaped his body and Oregon paid him a lot of money. I mean, he's getting paid in the seven figures. Yeah.

because he was at Michigan State. He transferred over to Oregon this offseason, reshaped his body, and you see there's still a little bit of sloppiness there, but he has gotten a lot better with his conditioning, and you see the athlete with the way he moves today.

But not just the way he moves in space, but through contact, his strong swipe moves. He wins with leverage. The biggest thing that I want to see improved from him is just the finish. I think if he finished at, say, 75% clip, he would have double-digit sacks. It is remarkable the...

pressure to sack ratio for him because he only has like three sacks, but the pressures are astronomical. He's top three in college football among interior defensive linemen. So the disruptions nonstop from him, he just needs to be a little bit more of a finisher. But the fact that you're getting in the backfield, creating these negative plays, that's enough for me to say, okay, this is one of the most disruptive players in this draft. So yeah, Derek Harmon, arrow pointing up for him.

Yeah, I know. I'm just glad I wasn't going crazy because I watched plenty of Oregon this year, watching them on film. And, and I just kept seeing, you know, really it was the Boise game because I was watching Gentry too. And, uh, and GT and I'm watching them and I'm just seeing, okay, there's,

Wow, that's 55. Okay, there he is. Oh, he's at three tech here and he's doing that. He's looping around as a pass rusher. And so I just kept watching him, kept watching him. So I'm just kind of glad to see others are seeing the same thing because I think he's been a really fun guy to watch. We'll get some other guys that we have some differences on that maybe break down some of these guys. Yeah, I don't want to spoil one of the persons I want to talk about. But now on the flip side.

What's the worst position that was probably of this draft or at least at the top for your top 50, the worst position or maybe the one not with the depth of the guys at the top of the draft when you were doing this big board? I mean, safety and linebacker aren't great. That's kind of a theme almost every year, it seems like, although we do have a top 10 safety this year, which is really refreshing. Offensive tackle isn't anywhere close to what it was in last year's class.

but I'd probably have to go with center. It makes sense. Last year was so great at center. We had Graham Barton, Zach Frazier, Powers Johnson, even guys like Bo Limmer and Tanner Bortolini. They've made impact so far as rookies. So we're going from just a remarkable center class to this class, which is

I mean, the top senior right now, top senior prospect at center is probably Seth McLaughlin at Ohio State.

Okay. Yeah. Maybe a fifth, fifth rounder. I don't know. I mean, it's just, it's, I have a day three grade on him. So yeah. I mean, so this class is going to, it's going to need help from the underclassmen. Um, Jared Wilson from Georgia has played pretty well replacing, uh, Cedric Van Praan. Um, you know, maybe he's a third rounder if he comes out, uh, Parker Brailsford from Alabama. That's, he's the guy that I think could be like, I'd love to see him in college one more year, keep developing his body. He doesn't have that ideal frame, but,

But he's a twitchy mover. He plays with some vinegar. I mean, he will get after you. But there's a little bit more development there that's needed. But I could see him want to maybe capitalize on a bad center class and declare because he'd probably be somewhere in that day two mix. So it's not a great year for if you're looking for an upgrade at center. This might not be your year.

Which a lot of teams are. So that, yeah, it's, it's hard position. No, that's interesting because that's, I didn't have any of my top 50. I had maybe, like you said, maybe a couple of guys I could like maybe see as tweeners at the next level and maybe bump over there. I'm all about that arm light too. The tackle thing. And we have, we have some differences on the tackle self. So again, I want to wait until the second half of the show to kind of get into those, but yeah,

There's tackles I like and none I love. And that's at the top. That's in the middle. Middle of top 50, I should say. Just a little bit of everything. There's a lot like, oh, I like that. But as opposed to last year where I was... Shoot, there's three at the top I loved. And then there's about three other guys. I mean, you got...

You guys started making fun of me, how much I mentioned Graham Barton for about three months. You know, like guys like that. Those guys are outclassed, all these guys. So kind of with you on that. If Amirius Mims were in this class, he'd be a top five pick. I mean, it just... And he went, what, 17 last year? So, you know, there's so many teams that are going to be picking a top 10 that could use offensive tackle help. And this class just doesn't have those guys, in my opinion. And...

The other position we're about to talk about quarterback help. This is not the year to be racing to the bottom. I would say if you need a quarterback, which a lot of the teams in the top 10 do, uh,

I just had this bullet point superlative I sent over to you. I just said, explain the quarterbacks because I feel like all you and I do is text and go, is this something? Oh, I like him. And then any guy that we like, say Garrett Nussmeyer, who was my quarterback one, put him as quarterback one, bombs the next two weeks. So you ended up with, I believe, was it Cam Ward as quarterback one?

Yeah, it was. Yes, it was. 16 overall. So yeah, I just start with there. We'll start there with your quarterbacks.

It's always interesting when you do these rankings midseason where there's more tape coming in, there's games being played. So something could disrupt what you were thinking. And that's where I was with Garrett Nussmeyer. He was I came out and said, look, this is right now. I don't love any of these guys. But if you make me put a quarterback one on somebody, I'm going to go Garrett Nussmeyer because he's actually doing quarterback things out there.

the way the ball comes off his hand, the pocket maneuverability, um, just the, the, and he had single digit starts. So, you know, there, we didn't have a lot of body of work to go off of, but then I, you know, you watch the second half of that A&M game and then you watch him against the Alabama defense. And it's like, oh man, like he's just, things are moving way too fast. Once he gets, uh, he starts to press a little bit, starts to throw his turnovers and it's like, all right, well, uh,

You know, calling him quarterback one doesn't look like, you know, the smart move now. But I look, a lot of teams are still really high in Garrett Nussmeier. Now, should he go back to school? Yeah, probably as 10 starts to his name. You know, you want to get as much experience at the college level while still getting paid with NIL before you go to the NFL. So we'll see how that all plays out. But I went Cam Ward.

Look, this is a quarterback class that – and when you talk to league guys, you talk to scouts, there's no – the only consensus is that there's not a lot of conviction on this group as any of them being true top 10 players. Let's talk about them. We're both going like, yeah, I guess. The way I think when you talk about quarterbacks, you have to talk about it as if you're making a bet.

So last year at this time, we felt good about making bets on Caleb, on Drake May, Jane Daniels. You were big on McCarthy for a while. Yeah, J.J. McCarthy was always in my first round. I felt good about making those bets. But this year...

It's just these bets feel a lot riskier if you have to make a bet on a Cam Ward, on a Shador Sanders. Now with Cam Ward, I get the glass half full with him because –

The upside, the progress he has shown. He's 6'2", 225, electric arm, the elusiveness in the pocket. It helps create opportunities. But he plays really loose, and that's just a double-edged sword, right? It's what makes him dangerous as a play creator, but also that loose decision-making leads to negative plays. And every tape, there's examples of both where there's some turnover-worthy plays, but

plays where he's holding the ball too long, taking sacks. But then, you know, he pulls a rabbit out of his hat and is able to make this remarkable play you just don't see very often. So with him, I'm encouraged by the progress, like I said, because he was a wing tee quarterback in high school.

strict air raid at incarnate word and then Washington state this year with Shannon Dawson, office coordinator at Miami, they're doing some more, some, some new things that we haven't seen cam ward do. And so you see the talent, you see the upside, the character stuff has been great. Um, smart guy, confident leader. So all this stuff you hear along those lines are positive. And,

And then, you know, I think the biggest thing with me, with Cam, is I just want to see him do it against a defense that I respect. And, you know, you look at that Miami schedule.

The toughest defense they've faced so far, probably Georgia Tech, the game that they lost. And so selfishly, I'm rooting for Miami to make the playoff. You know, I want to see him on a big stage like that against a Georgia, against Ohio State to see how he performs against a defense more along the lines of what he's going to see on Sundays. And, you know, you go back to last year, if Michael Penix,

Say he doesn't. If they don't make the playoff, he doesn't have that 430 passing performance against Texas in the playoff.

Is he still a top 10 pick? Maybe. I mean, consciously or subconsciously, having those big games on the big stage, that plays a factor. That matters. So with Cam Ward, I get the upside. I get the optimism with him. But there's still a looseness to his play style that I think gives you some pause about really focusing

fully buying into him as a someone that you want to take number one overall and believe he can really turn your franchise around that he's a fun guy for me in the back half of the first round maybe at this point in time he was quarterback two for me right behind us I kind of cheated and put him back to back on the big board if you ever know that I'm trying to parse between two guys that's my that's my the way to see that right next to each other yeah I know it's like all right I'm just gonna write about both of them

Um, no, I I'm totally with you on this. I like a lot of what he does. I don't love a lot of what he does and shoot, even how you started your, your big board article, which was just a quote from a scout you got, which says, I don't envy you. And, um,

I just, I make, I'm truly, because we fly blind a lot on this, like, especially when you're putting a big board, you don't want outside noise. And sometimes I'm watching these guys. I'm like, am I just too harsh on them? Am I, do I like guys, the right guys too much or wrong guys too much? I ended up kind of spreading it. I included six of my big board because I was just like, I don't know, guys, I'm trying to parse through this too. I just grouped these guys together. But with Ward,

I understand the argument for him. Like you said, he's also pretty young for his grade, even though he's a, he's been extended senior. Um, you know, I think he was a summer birthday. And so like when I watch him, he'll be 22 when he, when he's drafted, it was turned 23 this summer, but it's 20 this summer after he is drafted. Yeah. It kind of threw me for a loop. He's younger than Nussmeyer that, and I thought Nussmeyer's year was wrong, but he's actually, even though he's a class above him, I think, uh, but the, no, with Ward, it's, um,

The looseness you keep bringing up is like, that's what's cool. And that's also what makes you worried. He's so, yep. He's so calm and you can tell he's good in the big moments, but sometimes it's like, well, I need you to lock in a little bit.

You know, I need you to sometimes take that easy thing or, and his arm is good. And that time is very good. It touches it, but it's not this elite arm that it's like, you know, things get harder. If you're going to try and create, he's a good athlete, not an elite athlete, you know, and not a very, so it's, again, it's a lot on the scouting scale. It's a lot of fives and sixes, you know, but I'm looking for sevens.

And especially if I'm taking the guy top 10, you know, so he's a guy I'm going to like. He'll probably always throughout this process stay in that kind of quarterback one to three range, all depending on how the season wraps up, all this stuff. I agree with you on the playoff stuff. So we'll see. I mean, how many times Pennix versus Texas has been cited and how much CJ Stroud versus Georgia has been cited.

the last couple of years. Like, I think that's going to matter. Um, I would just continue down the quarterbacks. You also had two more in your top 50. You had Jalen Milrow at 22. Well,

Yeah, Jalen Milrow and then Shadur Sanders at 23. You did the back-to-back thing. I understand this one completely too. I had those two flopped. I had Sanders at my quarterback three, Milrow at my quarterback four. Kind of the same grouping though. Same kind of area. I'm a big board. Let's start with Milrow. What have you thought about him watching? Because personally, I feel like he's one of the most improved players in college football just watching him compared to last year.

Oh, yeah. I mean, you throw on the Rose Bowl tape against Michigan. And I mean, it felt like they were scared to just let him throw the one, you know, like anything. No. Yeah. I rely, rely on the run game and use his legs, use that athleticism. But they didn't fully trust him this year. We're seeing an offense that is centered around his dual threat abilities. His ability to run is still a big part of that offense, but his

They also let him drop back, read the field, and then just uncork these lasers. I mean, he has a rare package of traits. For a guy that's 6'1", 225, going to run in the 4-3s, and also has a rocket arm. I mean, it's kind of like a rocket-fueled version of Jalen Hurts with the way that he is built. And, you know, he's...

the mechanics are a little wonky. The ball placement is not a strength to his game, but it's like, okay, the improvements that he's shown are impressive. And if we're going to like just bet on the traits and then lean into what he does well,

I could see a team, kind of like what the Eagles did with Jalen Hurts, I could see a team really looking at that and saying, hey, this might be our best option. Let's take a premier athlete like this who the mental makeup is outstanding as well. So you're getting a great leader, a great person, and then you're getting a phenomenal athlete with a big time arm. It's different than Anthony Richardson. They're different players. It's not really apples to apples there. But a team was really...

willing to bet on Anthony Richardson top five, I could absolutely see a team willing to bet on a guy like Jalen Milrow in the top 25. So, but again, it's going to take a team that's fully bought into leaning into what he does well and kind of changing their entire offense.

Yeah. Is there any comparisons to Fields, to Justin Fields? Reminded now, trust me, Fields has been a great learning experience for me from prospect to now watching him develop. But I don't, I'm not trying to damn him or anything, but just traits wise, some flaws, you know, maybe the extended throwing motion and time kind of takes that extra half, you know, wind up, I guess you could put it.

Um, you know, some of the throws that he makes well, uh, does well, like he he'll gun in those seam balls and, and, well, you know, really rocket those in there. But once in a while he'll spray some underneath stuff. Like, so that was kind of the, who I got reminded of a little bit was I thought feels, uh,

played a little differently but as far as traits and maybe some of the throw style and everything but i went in going into season not thinking milroy would make my top 50 at the halfway point i was not high on them going into this year and this is a guy that loves straight set quarterback i i was just kind of like i i've seen this guy throw past the line of scrimmage where he's passed the line of scrimmage like four times and now five times this year and that that's

That's what I remember most about him. Not anything else that he did. I remember the Rose Bowl game against Michigan where they were, I mean, turned into a wing tee offense basically to just not have to throw the ball. And I watched him this year and it's just, it's one and done, but he's making that one and done decision so quick. And that's what's a game against your Badgers that kind of flipped it for me. Like his ability to those downfield throws. I mean, he, it was really impressive as like, okay, if you're going to,

Tell me that you could make these downfield throws consistently, even if they are half field reads. And, you know, like he's he's kind of determining pre snap where he's going. It's still progress and it's still like, OK, we've got something here. So, yeah, he didn't flatline his development. It was actually. Yes. Which is huge. It's not Blake. And he's a junior. So a fourth year junior technically could go back to school to kind of see, you know, what's

I think, you know, he's been a starter now for a couple years. I think he's like 75, 25 coming out. But I don't know. We'll have to kind of see how the next month, month and a half changes out.

God, it just seems all these guys. It's like, I understand if they go back, like even Nussmeyer, who's my QB one. It's like, if he goes back, I totally get it. Cause he might be the Heisman front runner next year and LSU might be good. So, all right. The last one of your top 30 Shadur Sanders, Colorado, you have him 23 overall. I had him just behind that, uh, 29 overall. Uh, so same kind of tier Shadur Sanders. What'd you think about him so far this year?

I mean, he is a he's a good player. Like, I don't think any conversation about Shador is not. Is he good or not? Like, he's clearly a good player. I think his poise, his accuracy, his toughness, those are all things I think you can point to and say, oh, yeah, that'll work. That'll work in the NFL. I'm not impressed by the physical traits. He's 6'1", maybe 210 at best. His arm is B level, F2.

I think in terms of quarterbacking style, it reminds me a lot of Jordan Love without the high-end physical traits. The way they bounce around, they backpedal at times, they keep the weight on their back foot, they use a lot of different platforms to throw the football. Shador grew up watching his dad, this elite athlete, do these different things. I think Shador thinks he has some of that in him when he plays.

not even close. So, you know, like four tiers apart. Yeah, exactly. So I think there's,

There's a quarterbacking style that he has that a guy like Jordan Love can get away with, but I just don't know if Shador will be able to get away with that at the next level. And again, I mentioned this with Cam Ward. I want to see Shador against a defense that I respect. And the two best defenses that the Colorado has faced this year, Kansas State and Nebraska, both losses in both games where I thought Shador didn't handle himself the best. And a lot of that is...

working the pocket and understanding where the rush is coming from. He's not a bad athlete. He's a good athlete in order to kind of move around, but he takes too many sacks. The offensive line for Colorado is going to get brought up endlessly throughout the draft process, but a number of these sacks are on the quarterback.

So it's only going to get tougher against NFL speed. I don't know. Like I said, I think Shador is a good quarterback, but I have plenty of concerns about what he's doing and how it's going to work at the next level. I'm just I'm not I'm not I don't have conviction that this is a guy that you're going to be able to plug in. And all of a sudden he's going to start leading my team to wins.

It's, it's, he's very mechanical and you know, he's been coached. And I mean that in a good way and a bad way where it's that this feels as far as his tools wise, everything's maxed out. And some of that feel in the pocket is he's gotten, don't get me wrong. He has gotten way better in the pocket compared to last year, but last year he was poor. And now this year it's,

average at best. And it's, it's, it's, he's stepping up a little bit better, like, but it's still his first instinct is to move backwards, which is the biggest no, no, you brought it up. That love can do it. Love is six, four to 30 with a plus plus arm. Like that's why he can move back and do those things and has the size to get out, you know, defenders grass. I, you before the season had the verified numbers from shooter for the spring.

And it was 6-1-1-98, I believe. And that's where I was like,

Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. You know, anything under 205 is going to... That's even for Nussmeyer. I have size concerns about him. You know, I got to see what he's going to be. But with Choudeur, especially how he wants to play, those traits just don't match his play style. And again, like you said, it gets harder in the NFL. So it's like he's improved. Once you get him running the 40, maybe 4'8". I mean, like... That's what I figured. Yeah, he's maybe 4'7", 6", at best. Like, he's just not that type of athlete. So, yeah, it's...

The lack of

physical traits or high-end physical traits is something that it bothers me. I mean, it's something that, I mean, I'm not going to compare him to Bryce Young. Bryce Young was such an outlier in terms of size and all that. But it's something that if you're talking about a top 10 pick, because if you do a mock draft, that's where you see a lot of Shutter Sanders in the top 10. And he might absolutely, he might actually go that high because teams are desperate for quarterbacks.

I would not have any conviction in drafting him that high. Yeah, that's, I come back to that same thing. I mean, the tools do matter. And the fact is his play style doesn't mitigate that. And that's like Nussmeyer. I can make an argument for it because he mitigates it, like with his pocket field, getting the ball out, rid of the ball quickly. Like when you're trying to use that athleticism or your thoughts of your athleticism and your arm strength, it's kind of, I texted you. My comparison for him was kind of a Diet Coke Jameis.

Uh, he's better with the ball as far as not putting the ball in harm's way than Jameis, but kind of that same thing where they maybe think they're more than what they actually are. Um, and then, like I said, you had the wrap it up. You had Nussmeyer at 30. He was my one, um, had them in the teens. Uh, you have the Tony Romo comparison to Nussmeyer. I just want to wrap it up with that. Like a Diet Coke, Nuss, uh, Romo. How about Chad Pennington?

A little bit of like a mix between the two. Pennington had a little bit more wild horse than you remember. Anytime I think of these old comparisons, I try to find some old YouTube game just to make sure I'm not like totally off. So yeah, I saw some shades of Pennington in there, which that's my QB1. And that kind of sums up the class. My QB1 is a Diet Coke Chad Pennington. He was drafted like mid to late first round. Yep.

In the 20s, yeah. I think the Jets had like four first-round picks that year or something like that. That's right, yeah. I don't know. I get it. Like Nuss, trust me, I've had to – I've taken it on the chin for having him as my quarterback one couple weeks ago. And I still really like him. All these guys are pretty closely ranked for me. Yeah.

I just, I hope he goes back. I really do. I, cause I think he can get a lot better and like, I don't know that he'll ascend to Joe Burrow or Jane Daniel status in year two as starters for LSU. Like those guys did, but he could absolutely take any doubt out of being a top 10 pick. And you know, I, a true lottery pick.

pick yeah exactly so i don't know if i were him hopefully he goes back um obviously cam and shador will their seniors they will be in this class and like i said if i had to make a bet on who's gonna be the first quarterback drafted i think it'd be cam ward and then shador at some point in the first round and i mean hey there's a good chance maybe uh he could join you as a las vegas resident uh

Here in six months. I don't think Mark Davis would be able to help himself. Oh, my God. That's what they need. They just have the circus tent hanging over there. Just bring it over from Absinthe or anything like that. Just put it over the stadium. They just love it here. I know. At least we got Norb Turner back in the NFL. I'll get to enjoy that a little bit. There you go. I thought we were going to get some Ritter starting, and they said, nah. Yeah.

They say, no, we're going back to Minshew. So don't get that here in Raiderville. I'll wrap this up or this section up with, let's talk more about the skill positions. Going running backs, you had three guys in your top 50. I had four in my top 50 and then two in my next 10, which is my cheat list of like, hey, I like these guys too. Don't yell at me. Really good running back class though. We both kind of agreed on that. I think a lot of day two guys,

you, uh, yeah, just knock out the three guys that you're in your top, uh, top 50, obviously starting with one guy, number six overall, who had a number eight overall. And I'm totally with you on this. Yeah. Uh, Mr. Ashen Genting, Boise state. Um, I, I,

when I watched, I look this summer, he was one of my favorite players that I watched. I mean, I was kind of blown away. He was easy running back one for me. And I was, I was ready going into the season to just go to war for this guy. But the way he's played this year, it's not really necessary. I think people kind of like, all right, yeah, all right. He's, he's the guy. It'll be interesting to see how early he gets drafted. You know, we saw Bijan be a top 10 pick. Jameer Gibbs was a top 12 pick.

well, you know, it takes the right team. Um, so there's a little bit of luck there with how the draft plays out and the team fits and all that. So that'll be really interesting. Um, running back two and three for me were Caleb Johnson from Iowa and then, uh, Marion Hampton from North Carolina, two guys that are big, physically impressive looking dudes. But once they get rolling, they've got some speed too. So, um,

And they hate to be tackled. I mean, the balance that they run with is outstanding. Both Ohio State backs just missed for me, Travion Henderson and who's your guy? Quint Sean Judkins. Quint Sean Judkins. Thank you. Did you say your guy? Yeah, it is my guy. I really like Judkins. You do love him, don't you? Yeah, I do. I do. Him and Jenty were one-two for me going into the season, and then Jenty blew it out of the water. I like Judkins, too. I have him at 40.

Okay. Yeah. My, my issue with Junkins this year is like, he, he knew what he was signing up for by going to Ohio state and sharing carries. Like, I think he's okay with that. I don't think he's upset by any means, but,

But every time, because he's averaging like 11, I think it's like 11 carries a game. So every time he gets a carry, he's so hungry to go make a play that it's just like boom, boom, boom. He is just running right into that defensive line. And if you just a little more patience, I think that,

he could really break some big runs because once he gets, once he clears that first wave and he gets a linebacker and open space or a safety, I mean, he can run through him, make a miss. He's got some big play ability. I just want to see a little bit more tempo and patience from him.

Yeah, I'm kind of with you on that. Also, he doesn't have the high top-end speed. He's a true doubles hitter only, very much an Edgar Martinez playing running back. I'm so glad I have you here. I can make baseball references again. But him and Henderson I had in my 40s. I'm with you on it. And Henderson I like. It's just that he has some vision stuff and everything that you can't get on board with. Especially inside.

Yeah. As an inside runner, there's some, yeah, definitely. But if you give him the ball in space, man, you can go and he's going to protection. Yeah. Well, and that's the thing as a third down back, there's a clear path to Travion Henderson being an NFL guy. Cause I mean, last week against Purdue, they line them up out wide and get them mono, we mono against a linebacker and he runs a little, uh, out and up and, or it was some type of double move and gets vertical and, uh,

And Will Howard put it up for him, and Trayvon Henderson slowed down the route, caught it, and kept going. So, look, he is a guy that can show up on third down, play in any situation. And so, yeah, that's a really good running back situation they've got going on in Columbus. Yeah.

And then, yeah, you mentioned Johnson from Iowa. He was in my next 10. So like top 60 basically. And then I had Devin Neal in my next 10 and my top 60. I just really like him. You love Devin Neal. That's right. I do, man. I just, that's a good player. I just like him. He just does everything I really like. And even his build is exactly how I like my running backs. I don't know. You can look as much like Mowaldi Moore as possible and I'm good. Too lame, right? Yeah.

Yes. A few of my favorites outside of the top 50, top 75, Jordan James from Oregon. I mean, he just runs angry. Yeah.

Woody Marks from USC. If you want a guy that can show up as a receiver, that's your guy. And then Phil Moffa from Clemson is a lot of fun as well. So this is such a great running back class. It's such a good one. Yeah. I know. Jockins, we didn't even talk about him. Or not Jockins. Hampton, you know, expanding on him. I loved watching him. He's going to have some tread on his tires after this year. But no, but he's a good back. He gets rolling. He's got good vision. He tempos stuff really well, which I really like for a big back.

uh, yeah, no, I was, I was a big fan of him, but yeah, fun class, uh, wrapped us up with receivers for this section and tight ends is interesting. We'll talk about it later, but you had Ted McMillan from Arizona. I just call him Ted. Does he go by Ted? I go to you, Matt. So yeah. Okay. Nice. All right. He's King Ted, uh, McMillan. You had him at five overall, which I love. I actually, I had him at 12 and it was one that we're talking about things we regret. We might talk about that later. That's one. I was like, I should have bumped you up. I, I,

I really like him. Uh, but Luther burden at 10, I had him at 21. I like, and you're about or you like, uh,

A.L. Menor from Stanford. Yeah, we're getting there. You have a 28 year old. I really like him. He made my top 50 before the season. I had him in my next 10. He was like my first one off. He was 51 of top 50. Emeka Abuka from Ohio State, 35. Love him. I have a 32 overall. I know exactly what he's going to be. This is the guys I fall in love with every single draft.

Um, Evan Stewart from Oregon, really fun player. And then Isaiah bond from Texas at 45 Stewart, you had a 36. I'm sorry. Uh, what'd you think about this receiver class? Any of these guys really that you liked and stood out to you?

Yeah. TMAC is a lot of fun because he's, you know, six, five to 10. Um, he's so, he has this Gumby ish movements to him. Um, he, and he's so, the thing that I appreciate the most about him is he catches the ball away from his body. It doesn't matter where the placement of the ball is. 100% of the time he catches it away from his body and consistently. So the ball skills, his ability to high point are outstanding. Um,

now some of the routes are, you know, he's young, he's still getting better as a route runner and some of the pacing, things like that, but he has the athleticism. I, he's not going to run a four, three, but in terms of, uh, some of the movement skills and all that, um, I think are there. Which is really, yeah, exactly. And so some, like, he's not, I wouldn't say a premier separator, but I think that is more based off of him just being learning how to run routes the right way. Um,

But Arizona has not been a good team this year. T-Mac was still the first player in college football to go over 1,000 yards receiving this year. So he is a big play waiting to happen. Luther Burton, you know, it's another situation where the production is not necessarily going to look great. But I think especially when, you know, you think of –

what we're seeing in today's NFL. Defenses are forcing quarterbacks to go underneath and the check down option. It just makes yak receivers all that more important, more than ever. And so a guy like Luther Burden, who is basically a running back once he gets the ball in his hands, I think that's where he could really feast and really be a big part of an offense pretty quickly. So yeah, I think it's interesting. If we call Travis Hunter a cornerer,

Who's wide receiver three? I think that's a really interesting discussion because like you said, Egbuka...

You hate to use the word safe, but he might be the quote unquote safest option. Yeah. Because he's so well-rounded. Like you said, you know what you're getting. He's wrapped in transparent wrapping paper. You know exactly what you have with him. And then Evan Stewart. Hello, my number two Z that does the dirty work. It's like, God, I know exactly what he is. And he's a fourth year senior. He's a veteran. He's already graduated. He's a pro playing college football right now.

his high school coach tweeted at me because i tweeted one of his clips of him blocking and his high school coach was like sharing his high school highlights with me which was really cool and he was saying he like he had my favorite play of all time like he was playing defense he was out there we didn't go over this look and then he ends up with a pick six because he was so smart and aware and i was like oh i was like just you don't have to sell them even more to me like but that's exactly what i want to hear but uh yeah and then you and then the other guys that you had

Well, I mean, look, Evan Stewart, he has the talent to be wide receiver three in this class. I just, I want to see it on film. You know, he has more games this year of 20 yards or less than he does a hundred yard games. So it's like, okay, I know you have it in you. You have a Heisman contender, a quarterback, a,

the top receiver in that offense, Tez Johnson's out with an injury. Let me see you go make these big plays. Now, he did it again on the Ohio State tape. I mean, he burned Denzel Burke a few times. But I want to see you more consistently use that talent to be an impactful part of the offense. So...

Stewart, absolutely. By the next time we have a top 50 update, could absolutely be there. A.O. Menor from Stanford, 6'2", 215, 4'4 speed, physicality, went at the catch point. The Stanford coaches, they say he's going back. So we'll kind of see on that, but love the talent. Isaiah Bond, unbelievable.

a really sudden athlete from Texas. He just, he's so undisciplined as a route runner. The timing is off. You know, I, I just, I want to see more out of him, but the suddenness keeps having, keeps keeping coming back to Isaiah bond as a guy that, okay, he could really be something if he adds more polish to his game. And I'll say that, you know, this receiver class, it's,

It's not what we saw last year. Last year, we had, what, 10 in the top 40, I believe. We're not going to have that this year, but I do like some of the day two options. Iowa State's got two of them. Jaden Higgins, 6'4", 2'12", plays receiver, almost like a basketball player. And then his teammate, Jalen Noel, who's smaller. He's 5'10", 196 pounds, but he's going to run on the 4'4", and scouts say that he's the alpha of that room. So...

I like some of the options on day two that maybe we're not talking about as top 50 players, but this is a class where a wide receiver is gonna stretch.

Yeah, no, I totally agree with that. Again, a lot of guys I like, it's not as overwhelming as last year. Bond actually grew on me more. At first, I didn't like him. And then as I watched him, I'm like, okay, I get it. You actually see his speed as opposed to maybe worthy. So that's like, all right, if I'm going to have worthy at that grade, Bond, I'll give a bump up. Don't grade the helmet though, Dane. But the other guy I have to give a shout out to, he did not make my top 50 or top 60 because I have a permanent...

He's going to make my top 100. I can already tell you that. Xavier Restrepo from Miami. It's just because he's one of my favorite players in college football. And that's because I watched so much Tower of Van Dyke over the last few years. And this is all he would throw. He was the only guy he would throw to. And then I was with Cam Ward. I think he's a 60-year guy and everything. But he's a guy you take at

Early fourth. I know what he is. He's a smaller guy, but good route runner savvy. I just have to give Xavier Restrepo a shout out because I just really like his game. Yeah, he's 5'10", 200 pounds, probably going to run a 4'5", 4". But you know what? He catches everything and he's tough. And yeah, I mean, he's... He's going to be a number three and play in the league for eight to 10 years. That's it. That's it. I know what he is. I know what his ceiling is, but I just...

It's like, I don't know. Useful is what we always come back to. And that restrepo is useful. But yeah, that's a guy. Have you trademarked that word yet for scouting purposes? I know you should if you haven't. Useful. I know. I just steal from other sports and then throw them into football and then act like they're new. But I do want to talk about tight ends, but we'll talk about those a little later. We're going to take a quick break.

And then we'll come back with a little more comparisons of our big boards, a couple more superlatives, and we'll wrap it up with Dane. With the Mediterranean right around the corner, your perfect bowl or pita is waiting at Kava. Enjoy our new juicy grilled steak or one of over 17 billion delicious combos. Order on the app or in one of over 50 Kava locations in the DMV.

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Okay, we're going to do a few more big board comparisons. This is also a way to kind of tie in the tight ends with this one. I'll start with a guy that I was super high on.

And you kind of said, yeah, yeah, he's interesting. He runs like a duck though. And then it just made me hate him. No, but I'm kidding. Harold Fannin Jr. Tight end from Bowling Green. I had him at 27. You had him kind of as your next 20. I believe you did a list there. So kind of a top 75 grade and everything. Really just want to give him a shout out because I just, it's hilarious what he's doing on Tuesday nights.

like just a tight end catching 100 yards, running like a duck. No one could tackle him. But yeah, I just wanted to mention him. So yeah, you had Loveland at 13. He's a good receiver, right? I mean, he is...

And he's a willing blocker. That's actually what sold me on him. I was like, oh, you'll block a little bit too. Yeah. I was a little juicy on him. But end of second round, early third, Tommy Tremble can go at the end of the second. Right. Errol Fannigan, Brendan Strange. I would love to see him enter the portal and go to –

Ohio State or Michigan or Georgia or get paid and go to a big conference and see what he could do. He's...

He's just so dang... His body stiffness really bothers me, but he's just a good receiver. Ball skills. And I love guys that show up against the best competition. And you watch the A&M tape, he shows up. You watch the Penn State tape, he shows up. So, yeah, he's a fun player. Yeah, I just have to talk about him real quick. Okay, a few other guys that you bump

bumped into your big board, which I thought was very interesting. The first one that stood out to me, this was an unranked guy, probably the guy I had the least exposure to. And I think it was really cool. You dropped him in here. It's Mike Green from Marshall. You had him at 37 overall edge player. Tell me about Mike Green because I have limited exposure to him. And it's pretty cool to see him. You have him in your top 40.

Yeah, I think a lot of people were kind of saying, who? I think a lot of people knew about him. He's a little undersized, 6'3", 250. His arms are 32 and change. But he's just a lot of fun to watch. Violent edge setter in the run game. Explosive mover as a pass rusher. Consistently wins gaps. Creates his own rush lanes. I got some...

upset text messages for having him ranked so high because I think people were trying to keep him a secret, but yeah, he's not going to be a secret much longer. He's just, he's a good player. And look, he literally leads the FBS and sacks. So it's not like he's kind of going under the radar in terms of production. He is just a hard guy. I was initially when I watched him, I watched his tape. I expected to see a pretty good pass rusher, but maybe a guy that doesn't hold up against the run considering his size and

But he I've been really impressed by his ability to get off blocks, go make plays. The motor doesn't quit. He is a fun player to watch. Yeah, no, that was a good shout. I watched him later this week or earlier this week after you pop that out there. So, yeah, that was really interesting. I mean, shoot, last year, this was Quinn on Mitchell time.

This is when you dropped him, I would say, right around the same place, like somewhere in the early 30s, I think you had him originally, maybe in there. And look what's happened now. He might win defense rookie of the year, along with Cooper DeGene.

They hit pretty good on those first two picks. The Eagles. Hey, good players. Draft the good players. It's a good philosophy. The other one, I had him in my next 10, but you had him at 15 overall. And that's Shamar Stewart from Texas A&M. I totally get this. So this was one I, when I said instantly regretted, this was one I wish I boosted up. But tell me about Stewart. A&M's got a really fun front. You had him above Scowden, didn't you? Yeah. Or did you? You did. To me, Stewart's the best.

defensive line. Yeah. Aggies off. That Aggies defensive line is great. I mean, they're insane. I it's that game coming up against Texas is going to be so much fun. It turns out. I mean, Stewart is just

for a guy that's 6'6", 290, doing some of the stuff that he does, it's just like, I'm kind of getting ahead of the bump that's coming is the way I kind of explain it. Because he's, and it shows up on tape. It's not just the measurables. It shows up on tape the way he plays. Kind of, we talked about it with Derek Harmon, who, a guy that,

is not finishing enough. And if he did, we'd be talking about him a lot more in terms of just the sack numbers. It's the same thing with Shamar Stewart. If he finished a little bit better, and part of it is because he goes so hard, so fast that he just over-pursues and just these fly-by-tackle attempts.

But the athletic balance that he plays with, the fluidity at 290 is exceptional. And he plays his ass off for four quarters. So, you know, again, finishing issues. You know, he needs to play with better control. But they'll play him on the edge. They'll play him over the B gap. They'll play him all over that defensive line. And so he is the South Carolina tape. You know, that was one where even though South Carolina won, number four is just unbelievable.

all over the place, just wrecking things. And it was a lot of fun to watch. Yeah, that's a great shout. He stood out more to me than Skowardin, who I kind of kept up a little higher than you, but his tape was underwhelming, which we texted each other about. He's a good player. He is, yeah. I can't give a top 10. And look, he's one of the youngest players in this draft.

Like he is really, really young. And so part of it is you're expecting him to, you know, three years from now when he's 23 years old, what's it going to look like? So I still get it with Scourton. But yeah, his his pass rush efficiency is just way down compared to what you expect.

down to down. I'm not saying he's not a competitive player, but his down to down speed was kind of like lacking for me. I was like, I like when he had to crank it up, it wasn't even as cranked up as I thought it would be. Like, you know, I was like, all right, here it comes, here it comes passing down, pin those years back.

All right. That was solid. Like it wasn't like some overwhelming hole. Like you watch Abdul Carter who you had a three, I had a four, like overall from Penn state. It's like, he cranks it up. You're like, Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's a top five pick right there. Um, scoured and works, looks more like this useful three down edge, you know, but as not really a guy that's like, Oh yeah, I'm taking this guy top 10. Cause he's going to get me 12 sacks.

on his rookie contract. So no, that was a good one. The another one that I text you right away that I should have had this guy up there, but Nick, a man of worry from worry. Yeah, I think I got that one from South Carolina 41 overall safety. And I had him unranked, but I get this because it's traits and tools with this guy. Right? No. And you, you, you texted me right away and you're like, yeah, I should have included. Cause I, I,

You get it. He looks like a linebacker. He's going to go top 50. Yeah. I mean, he looks like a linebacker, but he moves kind of like a corner. You know, just impressive size, speed, the range. He'll string out runs because of that sideline speed. He is grabby in coverage. I mean, there's some times where...

He is more physical than he needs to be and the flags will come. But give me those types of athletes and you can do different things with them with the way that you utilize them in your back seven. So yeah, big fan of what he brings.

That South Carolina defense as a whole. I mean, we – Oh, yeah. Kyle Kennard up front. They've got like three defensive tackles that are going to play in the NFL. TJ Sanders was a guy that I just left off my top 50 but could have made it. So, yeah, that South Carolina defense as a whole is really impressive. Yeah. And, yeah, I've watched plenty of LSU this year. And watching them go against that South Carolina defense was a war –

That was a lot of fun. We both still have Will Campbell's OT1, so I am happy about that one too as well. That won't change for me. I don't think it'll change. I don't think it'll change for me. Unless he has 31 quarter-inch arms. But even that, I'm like, whatever. Let me get your opinion. Where would Will Campbell have been in last year's tackle class for you in the stack?

So, you know, obviously he's behind Joe Wall, behind probably Latham. I would have him behind Shanu, behind Latham. Fuwaga. I had... See, because Fuwaga I was a little lower on, but I had to wait first on. So, like, in between...

and I was really high on Troy Fontenot, but that was because I could argue that he could play five spots, you know, and that like, I actually think Campbell could stay on a tackle. So it'd be like the Fontenot tier, which is like a, you know, so he would be like OT or O-Lyman five, you know, so if really when it comes down to it, O-Lyman four, you know, tied for that, um, compared to last year's class and that, I mean, shoot, even Barton was up there for me. So

So like that, that, that kind of tier fought new Barton and Campbell, but Campbell shoot, he might, I mean, some teams needs to tackle like,

I like his leadership. Like I can just, you watch him on film and you see how smart he is. Like he's pointing out blitzes and stuff. And I, I just want, and he plays hard. He does a lot of good things. It's just one of those guys. It's like, I want this guy on my team because I think he's a winning player. He's still just 20 years old. Like he's young. Um, he, he started at left tackle as a true freshman at LSU, which is not an easy thing to do. Some guys were just, I heard the sec is pretty tough. Yeah.

Some guys were just born to be offensive linemen. And I mean, Will Campbell falls in that category. He's just, and I think he's, his arms are going to be right around 33. I mean, it's going to be like 32 and three quarters or it's going to be right around 33, which is not ideal, but I don't think his length is necessarily like even his negative reps on film. I don't think our length related. So it's inside, you know, yeah. Inside is what gets them, which is more of a,

shoulder placement thing. And yeah, I think he, you know, he's getting kind of the bad athlete rep, which I do not agree with because I think I see this guy because it's the funky stance and he, cause he, uh,

really sinks like he you know i'm curious what his power clean numbers are because he can like really just sink under him forklift guys like yeah i just want him because he's tall i mean he's almost six six so you know he's a he's a taller guy a big good in the run good and pass yeah i actually would just segue right on to another offensive lineman uh i can't wait to say this one's probably the first time i've ever said his name out loud ariante ursery from minnesota yeah uh

You had him at 46. I had him at 18. And I actually was really liking his film this year. I had him pretty high, um, at the beginning of the year. So, but why 46? You, you think that, uh, probably hasn't improved this year or something like that? I don't know why I said way like that. I struggle. That's a leading question, your honor. I struggle with them, man. Uh,

I mean, he's big, 6'6", almost 340. No issues with length. He's over 34-inch arms. It's sloppy for me. It kind of reminds me a little bit of Ikuonu, both the good and the bad, where he can move pretty well. He can reach and seal a three technique. I mean, he has movement skills.

But his hands are often wide. And when they're inaccurate, it just really leaves. He's either hooking or he's hugging. There's just too many sloppy elements to his game, like the timing and the posture need to improve. I don't know. I the timing was off with him. I get it because of the size and just timing.

But I didn't see a first-round pick myself. That's just me. But I'm eager to see him in one-on-one opportunities at Senior Bowl, All-Star Game, because I think he can anchor. When guys come at him down the middle, he will anchor down and stop them dead to rights. But when he's asked to redirect or anything like that, I think that's where it got a little troublesome for him. And for a bigger guy, I don't know. I just expected a little bit more edge to the way he finished. He's not a mauler.

No, no, he's not. That's not really his the way he his blocking style. So that was a little disappointing as well. I think it was the Michigan tape that really kind of got me. Man, I just I don't know. So I'm more on the fence with him a few times. Yeah, I know exactly. I know exactly why you're saying that. Yeah, I couldn't get away from because just some of the tool stuff and.

The highs were so good with him. So high, you know, the, the, you mentioned the cutoff, the three technique. Anytime I see a tackle do that, I'm like, Oh, and then if they're three 30, I'm like, Oh, you know, cause that's just a sign of like functional athleticism. But I agree with you. Some of the hand stuff will not let them use his athleticism. Like, you know, and again, I'm always like, Oh, you can coach that up.

But again, it's like you hopefully get to the right coaching staff to do that. So, no, I'm bullish on him, but I totally get the qualms. I get it. I get it. Yeah, technically don't have a first-round grade on him. Especially in this class. Because this is not a great tackle class. And so teams are going to want tackles no matter what. And I could absolutely see him going much higher than I have him.

You know, closer to your range where you have them, yeah. I mean, look at the tackles. We're both squinting at Josh Connerly from Oregon. He's improved, but he has anchor issues. He can move well. Kind of reminds me of Marshall. His recovery balance, his recovery athleticism is saving grace. His hands are all over the place. His timing's off. But his feet and his recovery athleticism...

If you can do that, all right. I'm going to take a bet on you that we'll figure the rest out. That's what it is. And this year, I think he's finishing plays better. He understands, oh, I have to give that extra half second. He's not a glass eater, but it's just that I'm seeing him actually understand what he has to accomplish. Like you said, the hands are all over the place, but you can't coach that footwork. I just really liked him. But even the other guys, Josh Simmons, tackle from Iowa State, had –

tremendous film. Um, and then gets hurt. Cameron Williams from Texas, right? Tackle is a giant. It's like, I mean, absolute monster. Yeah, I know. I know. It's just like all these guys in the Kelvin banks. Who's the tackle for Texas left tackle for Texas. Really smooth. Has a good film this year. I can see him more as a guard. Um, all about you. Okay, good. All right. He's a girl. I'm going crazy here. Okay. Good. Even as a guard, he worries because I don't, he's not the most powerful guy. Um,

I don't know. I struggle with Kelvin Banks. Yeah. I don't see the top 10 stuff with Kelvin Banks. I just...

I don't see it. You watch the Michigan tape, and he's all over the ground. You watch the Georgia tape, and it doesn't look good. I think he's a good player. I was just underwhelmed when you have expectations of being one of the better players in this class, which I just don't think he is. And then, yeah, right tackle, Cam Williams, who 6'5", 335, and you move like that. But, man, he is so raw. You can tell this is his first year starting. Yes, yes.

I still think he'd be a first-round pick if he declared. I mean, even if it's in the late 20s, just because you're projecting out and what he could be. But, I mean, Amarius Mims was so far ahead of where Cam Williams is right now. So I don't think – I understand why people want to make that comparison, but Mims was so far ahead in terms of what you see on tape compared to what Williams puts on tape. I don't want to –

throw this name out there. Who's the Georgia offense alignment Titans drafted that fluked out? Was that Wynn? Oh, Isaiah Wilson. Isaiah Wilson. No, just the worst pick of all time, right? At least in recent memory up there with Demetrius Underwood for the Vikings. Yeah. I,

Anyone wants to Google that one? We're getting to your childhood issues. Anyone wants to Google that one, check that one out. Yeah, but no, Wilson, I'm not saying personality or anything, but body type and everything and just where they're at as a player. And he was a Juco guy, Wilson was. But I don't know, that was the guy that came to my mind. And I don't mean that as a bad way, just quote.

player in particular last one here and this is one totally understandable once you explain it benjamin morrison corner from notre dame i kind of hedged and kept him in my top 20 you left him unranked you were going to drop him a little bit but he also suffered an injury so you had him at unranked a player that a lot of people at top 15 for a while some still do uh so why'd you drop him uh on your updated big board

I think the lack of play strength really shows up on film. I don't think he had a great year before the injury. So based off of that and the lack of play strength, I had him as kind of like in the 30s maybe, maybe in the early 40s overall on my board. But then the hip injury just kind of dropped him out for now. I mean, hopefully the rehab goes well and he's working out for teams this spring, no long-term concerns. But I

I don't know. Hip injuries for a corner. A little, little, little worrisome. That kind of matters. So, yeah. We'll see how it plays out. What's a word you usually want from, or what you usually want from corners? Loose hips.

Well, fluidity got to flip your hips, some scar tissue there, some stitching, you know, I don't know if that's going to be the best thing for there. When you mentioned Josh Simmons, too, which another guy. Yeah. He would be in that OT one conversation for me if you were healthy. But now with the patella, like that's just it's a tough thing to come back from. We don't even know if he'll be in this draft class. So a lot of things kind of up in the air with Simmons. Yeah.

His cutoffs are really good. We talked about backside cutoffs. Oh, man, that was firing me up. But I had him at 25 overall. Yeah, I had Simmons at 25 overall. Emery Jones was a big dropper for me from LSU. He's the guy I actually see move the guard. He's a guard, I agree. He's a guard, yeah. He's good in a run game. He's not built like it. I'm like, oh, yeah, you're going to be this tackle. That's going to be loose. I'm like...

We're bumping you to right guard. Yeah. But I do like what he does in a run game, but no, it's an interesting, like quarterbacks and tackles in this class. That's what it is. You're like, you're squinting. There's some good, there's some traits that you like. And then there's some that it's just like, Oh, keep it keeps, it leaves you wanting more. So yeah.

And even like a couple of the guys I had in the forties, Wyatt Millam from West Virginia. Oh yeah. He was in my next 10. Yeah. Yeah. He's left tackle in college, but you know, his arms are closer to 32 than 33. And he's a guy.

He's funny. He's a natural lefty, so it helps for being a left tackle. He's actually committed to Marshall to be a big lefty pitcher for them at one point. Kind of remind me of Kyle Long because he was a big lefty pitcher at Florida State before he decided to go to Florida. He was like a legit one, yeah. Jeff Schwartz was a good pitcher in high school. Yeah.

I'm not sure if he was a lot. I don't think he was recruited in baseball, but yeah, he was another one. The pitcher to tackle archetype is not your usual, not the usual one. Yeah.

Once once Milam started hearing from Alabama, Notre Dame is like, all right. Yeah, I'm going to I'm going to go football. But he's he's just a good player. I think you're going to be inside a guard. He's just a good player. And then Grace Abel from North Dakota State, who. Yeah. The only FCS player. Was he on your top 50? He was. I really liked him. That Colorado film was really good. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, no. But he's a good guy.

Well, he's a tackle who probably going to move inside like the last few North Dakota State guys, right? Cody Mock and Dylan Radins, you know, 6'6", 318, but shorter arms. He was a center in high school. So I think, you know, that there's we talked about the center class not being great.

He might actually be the best center in this class. You see the athleticism, the flexibility. He's strong with his hands. Both of his parents were college athletes. And this guy cares about family, football, and farming. So it's like, all right, you kind of know what kind of guy you're getting here.

Exactly. Exactly. That's him and Tucker Kraft. The green and yellow looks good on him. Yeah. Right. No, I really liked him. I had him. Yeah, I had him at 39 overall. It's yeah. Wrote him up. I said, doesn't have ideal bulk, but he's a good athlete and he has a calm play style, stays balanced, but he has strong hands, wins rep after rep, clean technique. And I just said, experience at multiple spots.

like sign me up. Like, even if he doesn't have ideas, cause I thought he was a good mover. Um, uh, you know, usually think, Oh, left tackle North Dakota state. You're going to be like a try hard guy, but no, I thought he was a pretty good athlete. So, um, good shout out there. The coaches just rave. I mean, the coaches think he's like a first round guy and I mean, he's probably more of a second round guy, but still it's, uh, they, they, they talk them up quite a bit.

A winning player. That's what he screams to me. We'll end up with a couple more superlatives. Who's a player that you regret leaving off of your top 50? We've talked about a couple, but who are one or two or three that you're like, I wish I got them in here. Every year I fall for an undersized nickel corner player.

Their speed, their play style. Last year is Drew Phillips for me. One of my favorite players in the class. Looking decent. This year is Drew.

I'm planting my flag on Jacob Parrish, Kansas State corner. Yeah. Under size, 5'10", buck 85. The reaction quickness, the speed, the way he's wired. Sign me up. All right. I mean, he's one of my favorite players in the draft. I don't, maybe he won't go top 50, but I, as soon as I hit send, I was like, ah,

I should have, I ended up putting the Alabama linebacker, Campbell, after watching that LSU tape, what he did against the Tigers. I was like, all right, Campbell's got to make my top 50. He's in there. That's what he did for me too. Yeah, exactly. Even before that. Oh,

Oh, no. Yeah. He's been playing. I mean, if you're leading Alabama and tackles, tackles for loss, sacks, forced fumbles, you're doing something right. You have my attention. Uh, but Jacob Parrish, man, he's one of my favorite players in this class. Again, undersized nickel, uh,

Watch the Colorado film and see him, you know, play sticky coverage with Travis Hunter. You know, he's a fun player that I think is wired the right way and has the requisite athleticism to play like a Drew Phillips and that type of guy.

I love that. It makes total sense. You love your old school Mike linebackers that can't cover. And then you like, I like my big stiff ball winning receivers. And you like it. You like feisty slot guys. So this makes all the sense. Travis Hunter, by the way, is your number one player on your big board. I should mention that. We talked about a lot on this big board, but not your number one player. I think anyone that

has knows anything about football understands that one he was number two on mine i gave uh will johnson uh from michigan uh the bump because i just can't quit him and i just even though he's hurt i think he's good but he was number two so i have maybe on your big board so we had the same top two you have dual carter three i have dual carter four i had michael johnson or michael michael williams three and you had him nine i believe

Eight, maybe. Yeah, one of those. Let me see. You might end up being right. Oh, eight. Yeah. You might end up being right on him because I –

Really, after Travis Hunter, between two and ten, I was like, I keep reshuffling these. And I don't know. It's kind of tough. Mason Graham had about seven rankings at first for me. I moved him all over my board. He might be the safest player in this draft. You just know what you're getting with him. But he's not like Quinn and Williams in terms of being that type of player.

type of guy. Yeah, exactly. So, you know, I, Mason Graham belongs in the top 10, but you know, if you have three or eight, I get it. Like Jalen Walker from Georgia, who's a linebacker, but maybe best as an edge rusher or like, I don't, you know, he's somewhere in there. Williams,

You know, you watch that Texas tape and you see it. You see, okay, this is a top 10 guy. Easy. I cannot wait till we get an official verified arm length on him. I mean, he's ridiculous with the way he moves and have that length. But then you watch him against LSU and it's like, you know, where'd you go? You know, like, or not LSU, LSU.

Who did Georgia play this past weekend? But whoever it was, they you know, he just he comes and goes. It's not as consistent production from Mikkel Williams as you want to see. And that's like, OK, if I'm drafting you top five, I want to see more out of you. But the traits are there. I mean, he could he could end up being the best player in this draft. They would not be surprising if that happened.

There, there's a little bit of, I don't know, this might be a bad comparison, like Holden Smith, but Holden Smith was more productive. Um, I don't know. There's just the length and everything. And maybe some of the build like, uh, Olden Smith got bigger. So maybe that's why I'm picturing it. So yeah, I, I, I'll admit I was not grinding 2010 Mizzou film. Um, but it's just, I remember him as a pro though. We were getting all those sacks and then we're running off the field and sitting on the bench after you get those sacks. Remember that, uh, we'll go with the last thing here.

Favorite player to watch on your big board. Doesn't matter what the ranking was. Who was your favorite player that you're like, this just brings me joy. We talked about a few of them. Michael Green's in there. Mason Graham, Derek Harmon. Those guys are in there. One guy that we haven't talked about really Malachi Starks, Georgia safety. It just because he does it. He does everything. He does it all. He's so valuable because you don't have to play him in a specific spot. You,

and then adjust your defense around him, you know, you are able to just let him play all these different spots, whether it's man to man over the slot, he can play post single high, let him be a creeper or overhang, let him make plays close to the line of scrimmage.

There just isn't much fat to his game. You know, it's just that's the football IQ is what stands out to the most to me. And just the way he processes everything and sees the game. But he's also a really, really good athlete. He is a state champion long jumper in high school, 10, 500 meter guy. You see the speed on film. You see the fluidity with the way he moves. It's just it's so refreshing to have a safety in that.

as a draft prospect that belongs in the top 10 and has a chance to be a pretty special NFL player.

No, I like, especially how defense, how defenses use these guys now doing it all. It's just huge. I mean, watching last year when he was guarding Luther burden in the slot and locking them down, I was like, just stuff like that. I, yeah. So that's a great shot. I'm a little bit lower human, like, like one of the best guys in this draft. And so it's just like, check all the boxes from Alakai Starks. Yeah. Get them on your team. That's what it seems like. There's just those guys. They're not perfect, but they just, you kind of just like them.

You know, it's just like, yeah. We haven't seen a top 10 safety since, is it with Jamal Adams maybe? Because Kyle Hamilton fell out of the top 10. He was 14, I believe. So, it's kind of like running back where some teams are just, they're not interested in drafting the position that early. But this is the type of guy that it doesn't matter. You take top 10. Yeah, the combination of traits and play style. It's like that's different than...

that's the thing is so many safeties shoot. Look at our safety rankings from last year. It was just like, yeah, there's 10 guys you could take here. And like, and they all went from late second to fourth. And it's like, yeah, totally get it. So my, my number two safety went in the fourth, when Jane Hicks went to the fourth round of the chiefs. I mean, geez, like it's my number one, when the fourth round to the 49ers, uh, uh,

Malik Mustafa. So that's right. I know it was like my number four. I mean, he was high for me too. Yeah. And he's, yeah, he's played pretty well though. I mean, yes. Yeah. No, it made sense that he went there. It's like, they like the head hunters at safety. So that made total sense. Dane, I had about 40 more questions for you, but I think,

An hour and 10 minutes is a lot. I know how busy you are and I really appreciate you taking the time. This was a lot of fun for me. I hope it was fun for you because I enjoyed it. You're just a bevy of knowledge. A fountain of knowledge. Anything you want to throw out there. I really, really appreciate it, Dane. Make sure you check out his updated big board over on The Athletic and The Beast coming in six months. Dane will be

in your ears a lot over the next few months talking about these big boards and mock drafts and everything. But where else can they find you, Dan? What else are you working on? I think in the next few weeks, I should say. I mean, first mock draft to come out at some point before Christmas. Okay. You know, so dreading that, but no, Hey, pleasure. Pleasure is all mine. I appreciate it. It's always fun to talk football with you. And yeah, we got to do this again.

Absolutely. No, I, uh, maybe, uh, we'll do, we'll do that. Uh, pre where they call it. There's always like a post bowl game stuff. We'll do that. We'll get back together right before, you know, all-star game starts. So hopefully I can book you then because you're going to be immobile and you'll be all over the place and get picking your kids up from, from the bus stop. Like you'll, you got to be a little bit of everything.

No, but thank you again, Dane. Thanks to Charles earlier for doing the big, for doing a little breakdown of week 11, Matt Harmon. And I will be back. Oh yeah. Yeah. Matt Harmon. I will be back on Tuesday. I thought it was Thanksgiving next week for some reason. Um,

Also, we did not get to a mailbag question this time, but make sure you send those in. We will because there was an hour and a half show. I'm so sorry. But mailbag questions, send them in a football 301 mailbag at Yahoo sports.com. Subscribe to us, follow us, rate us, watch us on YouTube on the Yahoo sports YouTube channel. Thanks to Brett stone behind the scenes for editing this X, X, X, L Irishman length podcast that we've dropped in here on a Thursday. Thank you all for listening. Have a great weekend.

See you guys next time.

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