Best of the Program | Guests: Alex Jones & David Harsanyi | 11/15/24
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This is a fabulous Friday show for you. The podcast today, RFK Jr., the HHS nominee. We talk about what changes we want to see in the FDA and elsewhere.

what changes we really don't want to see. But the idea of this revolution in government is actually very exciting. Alex Jones, um, comes on the program. I am absolutely convinced his constitutional rights are being violated in at least two different amendments to our constitution. And he says three also the, uh,

Blue Anon, the new understanding of who really believes in conspiracy theories and how do they spread? Blue Anon with David Harsana, with David Harsani on today's podcast in 60.

Graham, I want to talk to you about the Berna launcher. I hope the day never comes when I actually have to defend myself from my family, you know, from a violent attack. Do you see the guy who was out with his family in the woods and a moose came up and he didn't have any weapon or anything and it was like going to attack his family? Moose are very dangerous.

And he just made himself bigger and picked up like a stick or something. It was like, and the moose just stopped and looked at him like, what the hell are you doing? And he defended himself. Now, I would have rather had, you know, something more than a stick, but it worked for him.

But that's not going to work if you're in a dangerous situation. And, you know, we are we are a long way away from having peace and comfort in our country. The left is not just going to give up. There are situations where less lethal is the best way to go. And the Berna launcher is the best alternative to deadly force. It fires powerful deterrents like tear gas, kinetic rounds, defibrillators.

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You're listening to the best of the Glenn Beck program. Welcome to the Glenn Beck program. We're glad you're here and listening today. I want to talk about RFK. RFK has been named the HHS secretary. Nominated, yes. Nominated. Okay. He's going to get through.

I mean, he's going to get through if they have recess appointments. I will say it's very likely he gets some Democrat votes. I mean, the first people off the bench to make sure they were cheering this on were Democrats. So very possible he gets a bunch of Democrat votes for this and he does get through if they go through confirmation. Let me ask you something. They say that Donald Trump, you know, is so divisive and everything else.

Can you think of any president that has ever put in a major role an icon of the other side? I can't. Neither can I. I mean, that...

I'll just ask, this is just a question. Yeah. Any part of you a little concerned that we now have two lifelong Democrats nominated to very high level positions? Not Tulsi. I'm not worried about Tulsi.

Good. I've had enough conversations, just the two of us, no cameras, no microphones, eye to eye. And look, Republicans are far from perfect. Yeah. So that's not to say that there are not Democrats with wonderful opinions. I'm a little, I'm a little, I get a little concerned when you have people who have a long-term view.

worldview that changes in a short period of time and then are elevated to high power, powerful positions in the government. I have, I don't trust RFK, you know, he's not personally, and I'm not one to judge, but the way he has dealt with women and it's the whole family. Okay. Uh, you know, not been good, not been good, not been good. Uh, and you know,

He's not being nominated for husband. That's the lady from Curb Your Enthusiasm's issue. So here's the thing with RFK. I have talked to him, and if I was to hold myself to the standard I have always applied to everyone else, if you can tell me long-held vision of something, and I'm right on this, and then you flip...

You should be able to tell me exactly when that happened. Exactly when you went, you know, enough is enough. Yeah. Okay. And he's certainly gone through stuff that would create a change like that. He's told me that. And he told me that story. It was during COVID. Was it censorship just of him? No. I don't remember. It was seeing the state starting to take things and going way overboard. He saw what...

He had always preached, but he thought that people would be more reasonable. Okay. He never thought, well, you know, my government, my people will never go wrong. We'll never do that. Just like many Republicans think, you know, their side. No, both people are in both parties.

People go wrong a lot. They go rogue and they go authoritarian. And so when he saw, especially in California and New York, what was happening and you were told you are not really a member of society unless you inject this into your body. He realized, holy cow, I've been wrong on this.

And he's been right on the issue of vaccine mandates for as long as I've known. He's never been a guy who's wanted vaccine mandates, but that's been, of course, the thing he opposed. The problem, of course, with authoritarians is they like to oppose. They like to support mandates on things they like and oppose them on things they don't. That's where I would disagree with his fundamental worldview. But he does. He does claim to have changed that.

Correct. And the proof will be in the pudding. Yeah. You know, if he gets in and he starts taking away choices on things, then we know he really hasn't changed. What I'm looking for on the vaccine front, I happen to believe there's something wrong with the vaccines that we're doing. Maybe the combination of them. I don't know what it is. But when your kids are getting 30 to 80 different vaccines, right?

and autism is going through the roof, something's wrong. Just like the peanut allergy thing. I don't know what causes that, but it wasn't happening to us when I was a kid. I mean, you could have slathered peanut butter on the top of everybody's desk in every classroom in America when I was going to school, and nobody would be like, I got peanut allergies. Wouldn't have happened.

So what happened to us? And it is important that we look into that. That doesn't mean that you have to be forced to, you know, get rid of Jif or whatever it is, unless it's clearly poison, which it's not. I want to know what's happening to our health, why our bodies are like this. I happen to believe that there is too much, um,

Too much in heavily or what do they call it? Ultra processed foods, which have saved the world from starving. I mean, it's a balancing act. It has saved the world from starving. However, in our case, because we're never starving here.

Has this been whacked way out of balance for America? I don't know the answer, but I think that's what science should be looking into. Not our HHS secretary saying, you know, we're looking into global warming because it affects the health of black children.

What are you talking about? Okay. Studies, by the way, RFK would have absolutely adored not too long ago. Maybe. I don't know. I trust him as about as far as I can throw in. And you do know he was up for he was going to be also he this is not the first cabinet position he's been considered for. The other one was EPA head under Barack Obama, which would have been a nightmare. Right. So it would have been a nightmare. And look, Donald Trump knows that. I mean, yep.

Donald Trump has said on stage, he has said it in person, I know what we have here. He's got radical ideas. And as long as he stays in his lane and we're not going, you know, all over with global warming and everything else,

I think we should listen to him. We should be clear. His lane in this particular case is running an operation with a $2 trillion budget. I know that. So I, can he improve it? I'm sure there are improvements. He can make things like over, you know, trying to, you know, vaccine mandates is the easiest one, right? I, I, I,

don't necessarily agree with you on vaccines. Obviously, there are many arguments that you know well that would push back against the things that you're concerned about. And you can choose yourself whether you vaccinated your kids or not. And I can get to choose that for me. And I think if he has had this change from authoritarian, which I don't think there's any question that's what he was. I mean, obviously, calling- Oh, he said it. Yeah, he-

He told me he was. He was that guy. If he's had that change from that to a person who respects personal liberties, I think he has in some areas. I'm concerned when he's convinced he's right about something that those inclinations go away. And that's where President Trump comes in.

I hope so. Yes. And look, Trump loves his—he's famous for bringing McDonald's to football teams. He's not like some crude when it comes to ingredients. He likes his food. He likes—you know, there's no question about that. Here's what Robert F. Kennedy should be encouraged to do. First of all, I don't trust science anymore. Do you?

I mean, you trust something, right? You're trusting something. You're trusting the RFK version of science. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. No, I don't. Because I don't know. Everything's been politicized. Yeah, that's true. So, you know, I don't trust. I'm looking for...

Gravity exists. That's what I'm looking for. The planet is round. Oh, don't get the people started. You're getting them started now. So I'm looking for things that are universally true and are not changed by politics or opinions of anyone. This is true. Mm-hmm.

I don't know if we have those scientists anymore because the whole system has been so corrupted. We have some. Yeah, I think we have many. I think we have a lot of really good scientists who do a lot of really good work. So do I trust science? Yeah, I trust science. But I don't trust necessarily the public messengers of science. And that, look, includes R.F. King Jr.,

I know that. I don't trust – that's just who – and that's why I always feel like the answer at the end of this is individual freedom. It is. Individual ability to make choices. And if we start banning things because RFK Jr. doesn't like them, I'm against that. Here's what I'm – here's what I – Whether you think they're good or not, right? Let me go back to what he – what I was going to say on what his main – this is what he should concentrate on. Mm-hmm.

Getting the pharmaceutical companies and big food and I don't even care if it's big spoon, big bowl, big fat guys. Anybody who is out there that benefits from what the FDA approves and doesn't.

I don't want revolving doors where you're working for the FDA and then you get a sweetheart gig at some food or pharmaceutical company. I don't want that. They should be adversaries. They should be reasonable, but you can't keep going from one to the other. He's got to clean up this nightmare of crooks

crony capitalism. It's a problem, although it's also a challenging problem because, of course, who knows about capitalism?

pharmaceutical medications other than people. You don't come from the janitor industry and become an expert on this. You have to have some experience in understanding how it works. But you're right. It should not be. Corny capitalism is wrong. And I always hate that term because it's not capitalism. No, it's not. When the government has a lot of power to do things over corporations, it's not capitalism at all. Socialism or fascism. So here's the thing. There are enough

really well-qualified doctors, we found them during COVID, that they like science. They like doctors. They like medicines. It's true. They don't like the lies that are involved and the money that is exchanging hands behind the scenes in record numbers.

I'm against that. I think you're against that. That's what I hope RFK does. Yeah, and he may. You know, I think he will on some things. I'm concerned. I am legitimately concerned about it. I don't think it's a great appointment. I would pick somebody else. And if you were going to give RFK Jr. a role, I would prefer it to be in more of an adversarial role or advisory role, right? Something that they can just say, okay, no, the

The problem is you put him in as HHS secretary. When you don't want to replace him, you're talking about another confirmation process. So he's going to have a lot of leeway and I think probably too much leeway. But I don't know. Let me take a quick break and come back on this because regulation is one of the top priorities for him. Just slashing regulation. Trump. RFK. He's like the FDA is so corrupt it should almost be shut down.

He may have said it should be shut down.

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15,000 will help save babies every day for a long time. All gifts are tax deductible. Preborn has a four-star charity rating. Fight, fight, fight for the babies. Sponsored by Preborn. Now back to the podcast. This is the best of the Glenn Beck program, and we really want to thank you for listening. Welcome back to the Glenn Beck program. We have Alex Jones joining us in just a minute. I want to remind you that

Of the First Amendment. The First Amendment says freedom of speech shall not be infringed. So when you are offering your opinion on something, the government has no right to stop you from saying it unless it is to cause a riot.

And it results immediately in a riot. Can't be something that you've planted the seeds and then somebody riots two weeks later. It has to be an immediate riot. That is the Supreme Court's definition of not crying fire in a crowded movie house. The Eighth Amendment is the one that says no cruel or unusual punishments

And no excessive fines shall be imposed. What happened to Alex Jones, I don't care what you think of him, what he said, I don't care. The First and Eighth Amendment are being violated by our government right now.

First Amendment's easy. No excessive fines. He was fined $1.5 billion, and that came down from the, what, $2 trillion that they first said that he had to pay? $1.5 billion. The guy in his entire lifetime has made about $50 million. There's no way he could ever pay that fine off. That's excessive. That's an excessive fine.

What happened yesterday was the government was supposed to auction off InfoWars. Now, if it's about retribution, what do you do? You try to keep this guy unemployed. But if you're trying to restore and make things whole again, well, you would go to the highest bidder, would you not?

Because you're trying to pay that fine and that's going to make apparently these families whole. Well, the government passed up the highest bidder. Why? Because they said that this would allow Alex Jones...

unusual and cruel punishment from being able to run it or be involved in it. They wanted to give it to the Sandy Hook family. So the Sandy Hook family said, okay, yeah, when he gives us the 1.5 billion, then we'll kick in the extra. That's not the way it, you know, I've been involved in auctions before. Never did they let me bid on something and get it because I said, yeah, but I'm going to get a raise, I'm sure, in the next couple of years. So let me buy it and I'll pay you then. Doesn't work that way.

Alex Jones, the founder of the Alex Jones Network and InfoWars, joins us now. Hello, Alex. Did I get any of this wrong?

Glenn, I'm not kissing your butt. I'm absolutely stunned how you boiled down in two minutes what I've tried to explain. You absolutely, 100%, hole-in-one nailed it. But I've got major breaking news. I'm getting chills right now. And I'm going to tell people, first off, the FBI testified in the show trial in Connecticut two years ago on TV. I didn't know this until then. They hit it in plain view.

that their chief counsel in Connecticut created the suits, organized the people, they got the PR firms, they hyped up and exaggerated what I did for two years, used my name to raise money for their anti-gun, anti-First Amendment groups.

And then sued me, then found me in default, said I was guilty, and then had show trials literally produced by HBO. Now, moving on from that, the federal judge, Lopez, just two months ago, very famously, when the last CRO and U.S. trustee appointed by the Justice Department, the judge agreed to it,

because they wanted to come into the case because it's so publicized, the Justice Department can do that. They have a whole office of bankruptcy. They then tried to close the doors in late May without a court order. We got a hearing in two weeks. I refused to let them close the doors. I said I'd call the police when they came and told me to get out of the building. And

Then the judge fired the federal trustee and the CRO, but appointed a new one that was next to the rotation. Now, the new one comes in and says, okay, well, Alex Jones is in bankruptcy too. We're going to move to sell it at auction.

the judge says yes, but then they come out a few months ago. It was all over the news and said, and the trustee said, I'm going to sell the name Alex Jones show. And I'm going to sell the name real Alex Jones on X. Elon Musk lawyers got involved. They were there by the way. Yeah.

It gets worse. But here's the new news. The judge a month ago in a hearing said, no, you must have new hearings on when you're going to have an auction. And we have to have hearings on this. So they withdrew their claim on my name. Chris Murray, the new trustee, and this is all in the news and the transcripts are public from the hearing yesterday. He, without the judge's authorization, the judge said this, went ahead with the auction and

But here's the breaking news. The judge said, this is even in Bloomberg yesterday, I did not authorize you to have this auction. We were supposed to have hearings because you were making claims that violate the 13th Amendment against slavery. It's not just the 8th and the 1st they're violating, as you just said. And then Chris Murray is in Bloomberg and in the filing saying the 13th Amendment does not apply to Alex Jones, close quote, in a filing. So all of those amendments are attempting to be destroyed.

And then I waited the entire day until I said this to all my lawyers. Some of them are the top bankruptcy people said, I'm authorized to say this literally 30 minutes ago. The filings will be filed within one hour. Now, now, now get ready for this. Not only did they have this fake information.

auction. The judge said it was fake. They took $1.7 million cash, as you just said, pledged the rest in future money they get from me when the judge's order was it's a cash auction. And now basically this is what the judge said. This was a private secret sale disguised as an auction. Yep. They then, they then ignored the,

the highest bid that was way, way, way, way, way, way larger. And then the judge then excoriated them and said, well,

The judge then excoriated them and said, we are now going to have a full evidentiary hearing sometime next week. And my lawyers are filing. They say it's cut and dry. They're not bomb throwers. Cut and dry in their own admissions, in Murray's own admissions on the stand, that they had bid collusion because none of the bidders are supposed to talk to each other. You have to disclose if there's another group. You have to disclose if you're going to change the auction.

And then now claim that it's not cash, it's a credit auction, but they didn't even do that. And here's the key. Murray put out two months ago for the auction that November 8th was the last day to have your first initial bid in, and it would be online with a big auction company, and people could bid up. That's the definition of an auction is sold to the highest bidder in Webster's Dictionary. So then they have this private sale disguised as an auction. Then they announced on Monday that

the 11th at 2 p.m. via email to my lawyers and everybody, we're disregarding the old auction filings and the money that was put down and the non-disclosures that were signed and the regular federal contracts that follow law. We're now going to have sealed bids in on Wednesday, November 13th at 10 a.m. There will be no further bids above that, which is not an auction, but

And then we will choose, including we reserve the right to take a lesser bid. So it was already fixed then. And then that went forward. So this is 100 percent, 100 percent cut and dry legal. Sorry. So here's the thing, Alex. You know, a settlement against somebody is to make the people that are suing whole, right?

There is a difference between restoration and retribution. If the people want that, you know, we're not going after retribution, but restoration, then that fine that you got, then you had to pay the families, was to restore them. They can't suddenly say, well, we'll get this money from Alex, but

While we take away his business and even his name, you're not going to get any money from Alex. And the reason why you would have an auction when somebody goes bankrupt is to make the other people whole. This is clearly about retribution.

And Glenn, you're absolutely right. They said on the courthouse steps in both rig cases and they said in their filings and they said in the onion announcement, this is about punishing him and taking him off the air. And the Democrat lawyer that runs all this.

Absolutely. And the head Democrat lawyer out of Connecticut that runs all this said on ABC News last night, Alex Jones's punishment has just begun. Listen, they turned down $70 million from me that I agreed to pay out over a period of years that I wasn't even sure I could make. More money than, as you said, rightfully than I've ever made. And so they admit this. They're not even denying it. What's crazy is they're so arrogant that when the judge said, do an auction, they're not even denying it.

Months ago, they acted like they were going to do an auction up to two days before, less than 48 hours before on Monday afternoon. They throw out the real auction, pretend they have an auction, and this is cut and dry. And then they admit that they did all of this. And again, the judge's order said a cash order.

auction. This wasn't even a credit auction, as you said, promising my future earnings for them to be able to buy my company. It is so ridiculously fraudulent on its face that my lawyers are spitting

right now that they would try this. But again, they admit that the Justice Department is heavily involved in directing all of this, just like they got caught directing all the lawfare against Trump. And they admit on MSNBC and CNN, this model being used against me, if they're successful, will then be used. And they've literally said the names in previous shows years ago, Tucker Carlson and Glenn Beck. So I don't know if you've seen those newscasts. I can send them

to you. You have sent him to me. I'd like to see that. Look, Alex, Trump won. We are cleaning out the DOJ. I

I don't want to get involved in lawsuits because I'm not a judge, I'm not an attorney, and I'm not a jury. But I will insert myself when you see clear injustice against the Constitution. And I can quote the 8th and the 1st. I hadn't thought of the 13th, but you say your attorney quoted that one. It is clear that this is cruel and unusual punishment against

It is also retribution and an excessive fine. And it's all based on freedom of speech. This is not going to stand, Alex. And I hope that when the DOJ is cleaned up, this comes up and they prosecute anyone who did anything illegal in this case.

I totally agree. And, and one of you have time, just one last key point, it gets worse. So they have the secret fake auction, um, Wednesday at 10 30. They say, we'll tell you sometime tomorrow morning. I figure something's going on. So I get to the office right at seven 30 when the call and the emails come through to my lawyers, uh,

that you didn't get your IP, you didn't get your equipment, you didn't get everything, nothing. And then Chris Murray, the U.S. trustee, shows up at 8 a.m. right as I go on one of my other hosts has a live show, so I took it over at 8 a.m. And I'm there, and he's ordering my crew, saying, I'm a federal agent. Because when he does his little hearings, he has the Justice Department seal behind him. He says, you were ordered to...

to turn this off or I'm going to have you violating the state. You're going to get in trouble with the court. So he basically intimidated my IT people to at 1030 in the morning, pull the plug on live broadcast when it wasn't a real auction.

The judge hadn't authorized an auction yet. He had just authorized to have one in the future. And the judge said all this in court. They literally hijacked the building, turned the power off, turned the satellite off to the radio and TV stations. Luckily, we built a

a backup studio, which we're calling the Alex Jones Network. People can follow that on X at AJN Live or Real Alex Jones. And luckily, we got in contact with most of our radio stations and only five minutes late got our satellite link that was already up and ready to them

But this is literally, I'm not exaggerating, any of this is all going to be filed in federal court today. Anybody listening that says this doesn't sound real, I understand. It's in Bloomberg. It's everywhere. If you read deeper in the articles that the judge, quote, you know, has serious questions about transparency, that he said the sale didn't go through. Right.

And here they are everywhere saying the onion bought it and all this, and it's not even true. So imagine, and all that people I've talked to said there's no way the judge doesn't at least order a new real auction. But there's probably going to be more. The law says that the real big bidder, by law, it will be forfeited to them, and they wouldn't have to face the jeopardy of another auction. So there's a very good chance.

with these emergency injunctions today that i will be back in control of the info wars building and studios in systems perhaps by this afternoon but ninety nine percent chance by the full evidentiary hearing next week when this is epic desperateness and vigilantism by the desperate left thank you very much alex jones uh... you can follow him and alex jones dot network uh... alex jones dot network and of course on x at real alex jones

This is the best of the Glenn Beck Program. Let me give you some facts.

Democrats are just as susceptible to conspiracy theories and quack science as they claim Republicans are. Democrats have not accepted the results of a presidential loss in decades. They are the original election deniers. Democrats believe shadowy foreigners control our elections. Democrats have convinced themselves that books are being banned. They're not. And one state even banned the word gay. They didn't.

Democrats no longer just disagree with conservatives about issues, but rather they treat every Republican victory as a grievous threat to democracy. Democrats rely on apocalyptics, apocalyptic ism. Is that a word? Working themselves and their voters into frenzies over the claims like the world's not going to, you know, end in 10 years. It might.

It might end in five years. We've got to get this done right now. Democrats believe that social conservatives are plotting a theocracy. Democrats believe conspiracy conspiracies about our history, including that the Constitution is a document for white supremacists. The left keeps falling for the racial hoaxes and polling shows. Democrats are more likely to be Holocaust deniers and 9-11 truthers.

This is the rise of Blue Anon. Blue Anon. It's the name of a new book, Rise of Blue Anon, by a good friend of the program, David Harsanyi. How are you, David? I'm doing well, thank you. Thanks for having me. Yeah. So, right now, can we play this audio that's coming out of Pennsylvania, where the Democrats are now admitting that they are counting illegal votes. Listen to this. We reject all three categories of these ballots.

Your motion is to reject or dismiss the challenges in this category in front of you? Correct, yep. I'm not going to second that, mostly because I think we all know that precedent by a court doesn't matter anymore in this country, and people violate laws anytime they want. So for me, if I violate this law, it's because I want a court to pay attention to it. David, that's a little astounding.

Is it just us? No. It is funny that these were the people who were crying about the end of democracy and framing Trump as a Nazi. But the truth always was that they were the ones who wanted to pack the court. They were the ones who want to get rid of the electoral college. They're the ones who use executive power to do whatever they want. I mean, that's always been the case.

So you, I mean, you came up with some amazing facts that you lay out in your book that you

And they are more susceptible. This is the one that blows my mind. More susceptible, more likely to be Holocaust deniers and 9-11 truthers than the Republicans are. I mean, we have our own problem. We just had Alex Jones on. We have our own problems on the right where there's conspiracy theories and everything else. But this, what's happening now with the side of the blue is that

It's mainstream. It's Rachel Maddow, right? Yeah, no, that's exactly right. So I lay out the history of my book. This didn't just start yesterday. But the difference between Alex Jones and Rachel Maddow and, say, the Russia collusion thing is that the left will take a conspiracy theory. They launder it through the media. They polish it up with high production values. They calibrate it to be plausible. Then they bring in, you know, people we used to trust.

who are experts, you know, and former intelligence service officers, things like that, who will spread the conspiracy theory. It's very difficult to debunk something like that. And people are more prone to believe it. I forget the exact number, but it was maybe 60 percent almost of Democrats believe that Russians had actually changed the vote tallies, not that they had sent some Facebook ads, but that they had changed vote tallies. I mean, what was the percentage of that?

I'm like 58%, something very high. What? Of Democrats, yeah. There's absolutely no evidence of that. Yeah, they don't need evidence as we've seen. So how do you break this?

It's difficult because first, everyone, and it's already happening, will stop trusting institutions that tell them these things once they are debunked. Then there's no one to trust. And that's not a good thing because, you know, yes, the media is terrible and all that. But you do need someone to watch over both parties and you want them to do that in a real way. It used to be biased, but now it's just complete activism. So you can't trust them.

So that has to break down, and I guess it has to be rebuilt. But I don't think that happens very quickly because the entire culture of journalism, the entire culture in these giant agencies is all wrong. It's demented. So is there any hope among a libertarian like yourself that the country seems to be on track to just thrive?

throw them all out and shut down as much of this government as possible. Does that give you hope? Yeah, I think I am. Yes, the hope I have because of this election is that people stop listening to those agencies. People stop listening to the media. They didn't believe that Trump was Hitler. You see that in that every...

every minority vote basically move towards Trump. I don't view this election really as a Republican win as much as I do just a normie win. I think Trump is just kind of, you know, here's another thing. Everyone always on the left that talks about Trump like he's this extremist. His policy positions are

incredibly moderate, I think. I mean, there are things that people like to hear and want, and there's a normalcy to it. Like, you know, I kind of think that the closest person to him is probably Harding, you know, who brought back normalcy after Wilson. So I don't know. I'm hoping he'll be more like Coolidge, who followed Harding and really got the job done.

Yeah. I mean, I think they were both great, but yeah, Coolidge definitely got the job done. David, can you go back to the history of the left of these conspiracy theories? Because I remember when there was the birther thing was going on and that was all over the place. It was constantly covered in

And we would look back at polls of, let's say, the Bush era around 9-11. And Democrats overwhelmingly believed that George W. Bush was involved in 9-11. Like this was not this is not something that blowing it up. Yeah, right. Not just like, oh, I turned my eyes away from like blowing it up.

Yeah. I mean, think about the difference. Michael Moore got a standing ovation at the Oscars in whatever year that was, 2006 maybe. For a documentary, there's a completely nut job crank conspiracy theory movie, right? It was just nuts. It was one of the biggest...

You know, it earned more money than almost any documentary. I think at the time it was the biggest. It was. And the birther thing, everyone rejected that. McCain rejected that publicly. I don't know if you guys remember. There was like some kind of a town hall and he rejected that. And I don't think any person of, you know, who was elected made a big deal out of Donald Trump, I guess. But the thing is, it's fine to ask questions about.

anything, an election, I think at least, about his birth certificate. There's nothing wrong with that. I think that once, though, the things are debunked and you still believe them, that's the problem. And Republicans don't do that as much as Democrats. If you ask anyone who, you know, a Democrat who was around, who won the 2000 election, they'll tell you it was stolen. And

there have been independent recounts of Florida that show that George Bush actually got more votes than were counted originally, but none of that will ever stop them from saying it. And people forget 2004, they did the same thing. Every major Democrat said that the machines in Ohio had cheated somehow. And you know,

They're they never pay a price for it. I just watched the video, I don't know, about a month or two ago of all the House members that stood up and wanted to cancel the Electoral College, the vote and not seat the electors saying that, you know, this was this was a false count.

And they needed to start all over again. I don't know if that was in December after that election or January 6th. But everything they claimed Donald Trump was doing, they did. And I bet they'll do it again.

A lot of projection. Absolutely. With the election denialism. I'll tell you the most. Another one that is just really pernicious and actually just evil in a way is. And it's not just my book. It's not just about conspiracy theories. It's just about a paranoid style of politics is the idea that black people can vote. The suppression of the vote is easier to vote today than ever.

ever has been in any place ever in the world. And yet many black people, over 60% think that they're being stopped from voting. So they think that white policemen are hunting them in the streets. None of this is true. Now I'm not saying there are racists, of course there are racists, but the idea that there's a systemic, you know, effort by white people just because of the color of their skin to suppress black people, that's an evil thing to convince people of. They don't think they have agency. And, um, you know, and that happens because of paranoia, I think.

Where do you think instead of saying, where did this really begin? What is it that sets us apart? Republicans are right and left. That makes them inherently easier to fall into these conspiracy theories.

In a way, weirdly, I think it's kind of laziness. So during the Obama years, if you said anything critical, they would just call you a racist. It's a way not to debate. So now if I say whatever I say, people will accuse me of being bought by someone. I'm being paid by, you know, Elon Musk or I'm a Russian dupe or, you know, so I think that people get lazy and then, you know, it evolved into you're a Nazi or, you know, you're Hitler.

And I'm not sure there's any place to go after Hitler. He's probably the worst. But they've been calling people Hitler literally since Eisenhower, who defeated Hitler.

But it wasn't as mainstream. People would make comments and it would be frowned upon. But let's be honest, the whole... So I was watching, because of schadenfreude, I was watching MSNBC as the election went to Trump. And it wasn't like they started saying, maybe we shouldn't have been calling everyone Hitler. They were saying, how could all these people vote for Hitler? I mean, they're not convinced. So the incentives are all wrong there. I know...

I know that's not what your book's about with the media per se and what's going to come, but

What do you think happens to the mainstream media? I mean, I think they were the biggest besides the Kamala. They were the biggest loser this election. They have it is clear that no matter how much they collude, how much money they spend, no matter how they all walk in lockstep from movies to, you know, to shows in arenas to the TV, it doesn't matter. People are done.

What happens to them? Can they ever get that credibility back? Yeah, sure they can. But again, like I just said, I don't think the incentives are right yet. It's not like it's not a job. They're out of job. The networks are going away. What kind of incentive do they need?

I don't know. But think about how the Washington Post just wouldn't endorse and the whole place had a meltdown. So there's a cultural problem. It's not like those people are just going to disappear. It starts in journalism school. You know, it's, you know, it's the editorial assistant who gets to decide to fire the New York Times editorial page guy for publishing a Tom Cotton op-ed. I don't I just don't.

I don't see that changing overnight. And, but, you know, maybe in the long run it can. You know, we spend a lot of money on politics. I wish some of these billionaires spent more money on, you know, journalistic efforts on the right. You know.

You want to be real? George Sparrow, Sorrel Spencer. Well, he does. Yeah. Sure. Yeah, he does. Uh, thank you so much, David. I appreciate it. The name of the book is the rise of blue and on he, um, David is, uh, the senior editor of the Federalist, uh,

tried to keep him at the blaze forever. I would have liked, I would have locked him in one of those, you know, cages down at the border if we could. David Arsani, a book well worth the time, The Rise of Blue Anon. Na, na, na.