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Get 80% off your impression kit when you use code WONDERY at Byte.com. That's B-Y-T-E dot com. Start your confidence journey today with Byte. What's up, you sexy motherfuckers? Welcome to another episode of Dumb Blonde. Today, I'm so excited for my guests. I have porn royalty sitting on my couch right now. Joanna Angel, small hands, especially.
Aaron, sorry. Either one's fine. Either one. How are you guys doing? Doing good. Doing pretty good. Just got in from New York and it's a lot nicer weather here. So what is wrong with you? I was feeling bad. Because I kept being like, I think he's going to be here later. And even at some point when she knew I was going to come here, I could feel it through the text. She was like, whatever, bro. Like, okay. Yeah. And the next day I was just like, hey, I'm...
I am super sorry. If you want to tell me to fuck off, it's cool. But I will drive up now, like right now to LA. I'll drive three hours. Like, can we have lunch? Can we do something just to make up? Like, like if you'll give me a shot. And she was like,
Is this thing on? All right, gentlemen, coming to main stage next. This is Bunny. Get up there. She's got a tornado of titties coming your way. Get those dollar bills ready. She's got an ass that shakes like Michael J. Fox. So get up there and throw, throw, throw them dollars. Dude, that is fucking iconic. All right. Come up to like today. Come up today. How are you feeling, Joanna? Were you like excited or were you just like, this dude's not going to show up again? You know,
No, I think at that point I knew he was going to show up because I made him feel like shit. Yeah, she did. I was like... I mean, it was one of those things. I'm like, okay, if he shows up today, you know, there's a chance. If he doesn't, I'm never trying this again. You know, this is it. I'm going back to just talking about t-shirts. Through email. I might even find someone... Fuck Gchat. He's going straight to email again. He's going back to email. And I remember... Yeah, our first date was basically we went to this...
grimy little British pub in Van Nuys in the valley down the street from where she lived and we ended up talking for like three hours. It was like brunch and then it was dinner, you know. And nothing about sex either. What it was was
It's funny. We were both basically like punk rock kids who thought the other one might be like a poser. So I was like, okay, you've got all these tattoos. I still think he's a poser. Oh my God. That's a whole... We can have a whole podcast about that. But so basically, we talked for three hours about music. That's...
That's really all it was. What bands would you like? Whoa, you're into them? Oh, I've got this tattoo. And literally, I don't think we talked about your job or sex at all. No, no, no. And I actually remember specifically, and I would actually do this anytime I went on a date with a guy at that time in my life. I didn't wear any makeup at all because I was like, if they don't like me like this, I don't want to hang out with them. You were cute as hell. I put on chapstick and lipstick.
know whatever I like wanted him to like yeah I just was like oh if he doesn't like like the real me there's no point you know like I have enough people I could you know that get the
I don't even like to call it the fake version. Yeah, exactly. Like I have enough people to work with, you know? Like I want someone to have like a real life with. So I remember I wore very little makeup. We just walked to the like little bar down the street. I went there all the time anyway. It was a British pub and yeah. Over a scotch egg and mushy peas and a couple whiskey Cokes and we bonded. It was Rocket from the Crypt because Rocket from the Crypt was one of my favorite bands, especially when I was in college.
And I remember it was a very small like niche thing. Like if you had a rocket from the Crypt Tattoo, you could get into all their shows for free. And that's like something not. That's a great marketing tool too. Yeah, something. And this was like, this was a thing that existed in like when I was back in college, like very, was it even, was yeah, like an early 2000s.
And there weren't that many people like it was not a very big band to begin with let alone the people who had that tattoo and I just remember seeing that tattoo I was like, did you get the tattoo too? And I remember we actually said it the same time to get in the show for free It was one of those moments. It was like that moment. I was like, all right this poor guy now He's gonna have to marry me And I was kind of like I just knew from then I was like fuck
And at the time, I still... Now he can't leave. I love that. I still own my business in San Diego. So I stayed the night. We didn't have sex. She did give me a blowjob only. I found out later. I found out later. You can tell why. Because I remember during...
The date, like everything he was saying, we had so much in common and we were like finishing each other's sentences and we were like laughing and having the time of our lives. So of course, at some point after like three bloody marries, I was like, there's only, this guy is so perfect. He probably has a small penis. Like why else would he be single? What's wrong with him? That's what I was thinking. There has to be something wrong with him. And I was like, oh my God, that's going to really suck if he has a small penis.
penis would it have been oh my god no no deal if he had a small you know that that was that was a tough thing for me you know I wish I could say no it wouldn't matter but it would you know at least you know what's weird it's like that was something that never like like people I think girls in the industry go one way or the other like once they start porn like they want smaller penises because like
because they're they're like you know they see too much at work but for me I had never seen like a giant penis until porn right and once I started with it I was like wow this is so much better than like the first time I had sex with a big penis I was like no this is so much better than a small penis and it just did make me into a bit of a size queen that's all right you're allowed I mean it just
And you know what? It's not right because if a guy goes on a date with a girl and guys are like specifically into girls with boobs or specifically into girls with butts, you know, if the girl you're on a date with has boobs or butt or something, but you don't know if you are just somebody who happens to sexually be in, you know, big penises, turn me on. I mean, what can I say? You know, you can't tell. And it's,
You can't ask. And if a guy does just send you a dick pic right away, then he's a scumbag. So it's very complicated. It's like an instant turn off. Yeah. But it's like, you really want to see it, but then you're mad that they sent it and you're like, it's a whole thing. I've never seen,
Ever sent you a dick pic? Even to this day in our home. She sucked you off the first time she met you. She didn't need one. I know. But I do remember eating before. I've actually never sent anyone a dick pic. Ever. Asking our friend Brian. I always thought it was stupid. Yeah, it's weird. Guys who keep dick pics like on rotation in their phone are a certain type of dick. I just never understood how that would lead to like getting laid. Yeah. No, I totally understand. That's one way. You don't want that. Yeah. So after the first night. So then it was established that his penis was not small. Yeah.
So the blowjob was really for like, you know, research purposes. I mean, listen, I'm... And I was like, I'm going to be good. I'm like not going to have sex with him for a little while. And that did not happen. Well, I mean, you guys had some... Like our third date. Yeah, third date. It was actually the third date. And then I remember being like, okay, I'm going to make sure to not have anal sex with him.
Because that'll really show up. She kept putting stipulations. She kept trying to hold out, but then she was her own worst enemy with it. It made her think about it more. You're not even thinking about it. No, I was just like mind blown that she wanted to hang out with me. Like as if that was going to make you. How did you feel about her after you hung out with her? I liked her a lot. I liked her a lot. And I...
I was still intimidated though. And I was still kind of overwhelmed. Because she's a big personality. And she's a lot. And you know. I have in my own way a big personality. But I'm a little more like.
I'm not as loud. I'm not as loud. And suave would be giving me a little too much credit. And so I almost didn't feel like it was real. Like I remember I... So I stayed the night and I own a business. I had to be there at fucking 8.30 in the morning and drive through. So I drove at like 4.45 a.m. home straight to work. I was like, what just happened? And of course, all the guys, when they get there...
So? So? And I'm like, I think it was good. I think it went well. It's kind of hard to say. You think maybe you felt like you weren't deserving of the love? Not even that. I just...
To put it very bluntly, I'm like, she's very famous and rich and successful, and I am none of those things currently. So why would she even want to mess with me? She could have anyone. So to me, I always just thought, is there something like, there's got to be a catch here. And then you realize I was crazy. That's the catch. I think you're crazy. Yeah.
And now I realize it a lot. Oh, yeah. But hey, 11 years later, you're still here, buddy. So crazy must... Blink twice if you need help. Crazy must be... I think she's probably a good crazy. No, I like crazy. I love crazy. I mean, in my own personal opinion, I think I'm a very good crazy. Right, yeah. She's like, in my opinion, I'm the best. I think I'm the best. Well, I definitely... I mean, since I was...
young my biggest like dream was to have a life of adventure yeah and I because you didn't have it right you know growing up I just I just liked the idea of saying yes to every weird cool right thing right and to pursue every weird cool thing because we're here like why would I want to spend like a lifetime doing
Or pursuing like mediocrity. Right. Absolutely. That's why, you know, even at the time when I met her, I wasn't.
successful by most terms or accomplished, but I was always like gunning for it. I was in my bands or in the songs I wrote or in the business I was running. I was always like, no, we're going to take this as far as we can. We're going to work our asses off. We're gonna have a great time doing it. And then when we get old, we're going to sit on the porch and be like, look at this shit. I love that. So take me on a journey. Now you guys are together. You guys obviously decided to make it work. When did you start getting into porn? Cause
So you were still doing porn while you were with him, correct? So for almost, God, it was like two and a half years. Because I did not want to be in porn. I was not a boyfriend who started dating her secretly hoping. I actually, and it sounds very strange sitting here today to say this, but I really did not want to be in porn. Because for two years, I would come and I was like her assistant. I'd be making tacos for the people I fucking like for lunch. I love it.
I would be handing them their release forms. I'd wipe up the fucking jizz off the floor sometimes, whatever, you know? And so, but doing that, I got to watch how this business worked and I got to watch what it took to be a male performer. And it's, you know, I've been doing this now for years and it's still like, it's, it's the, it's the craziest fucking job I think you can have. And it's crazy on all aspects and for all talent of all genders. But for, for a male performer,
the erection factor. You know, a woman or a person who identifies as a woman can fake it, you know, can yell, make a big scene. But if you have a soft dick, that is... Yeah. The whole day can be ruined. The day stops. And I would watch...
seasoned professionals at their best and I'd watch them at their worst and I would sit there and I'm like this no absolutely fucking not do I want to do this job yeah it's a lot of pressure and I never viewed kind of like her though initially I never viewed myself as that either I was like you know I'm like the emo guy in a band and I play my songs but I'm not like a
a big testosterone, you know, chest pumping alpha, traditionally speaking. And that's what a lot of the guys at least 10 years ago were. And it's, it is changing now. But, um, so when she at some point was like, Hey, like, you know, like, why don't you like, like just fuck me for like a movie or two. And I was just like, I'm good. Like,
Like, I'd rather clap from the sidelines, make you guys food. And basically how she... It actually happened with lost footage at first. Do you remember that? That's what it was. You're right. I had shot a bunch of... Fuck, I forgot all about that. Yeah. It sounds made up, but this is actually how I got my start. It really happened like that. But...
Yeah, when we met, and I always told myself, because I know that happens to so many girls, I was like, I am not ever going to quit porn for a man, you know? Yeah. Ever. She laid that out real quick. And I made that very clear. I was like, please. Do you remember? I remember.
She said, don't ever make me choose because I will choose porn, not you. Yeah. I said that to him. Stability. Yeah. I mean, also at the time, I'm like, this isn't even just like a job for me. This is my whole world. I owned a business. I was like, there are several people who make a living off of, you know, and my business, like I am, you know, like, and I'm like, but because I own the business and because of my, I was like, I can have, you know, I can do a lot of things that other people
can't do. So I do remember when we first started dating, I didn't film. I just kind of changed the production schedule a little. I didn't film anything for like a few months so we could like have our like honeymoon phase without me, you know, whatever. But after a few months, I was like, all right, dude, I gotta go.
gotta get back to jump back on that gang bang horse you know I kind of pushed I was able to really make my own schedule you know I would do things where I would try to like I was like okay I'm gonna shoot like every day this month and then I'm not gonna have to shoot again for another couple months and you know I've tried to do things because our relationship was really important to me and and I was you know and I was in a respect yeah and I was in a position where I was able to do that so and he didn't ask me to do that but you were just always cool with it you're like whatever you gotta do no that would it wasn't
I was always cool with it, but I wasn't prepared for, it's so unique. It is really unique. And I've never been a jealous person or controlling. But, you know, I was like, wow, like,
She'd kiss me. I'm like, all right, I'm off to work. And then it'd be like on Twitter, gangbangs and shit. It took a lot. Yeah, it was a lot of me going, I don't understand how I'm supposed to act or feel in this situation. And to her credit, Joanna was always really patient and really thorough with...
like communication and talking. And while she never held my ground. Yeah. She, she never like bended or, or, or like made, um, but I'm here for you. It was respectful. Yeah. And I, you know, and I've seen so many girls kind of make unrealistic promises to men when they're trying. And it really sucks. I feel like,
I see this happen worse than drugs in porn or anything that people think is the demise of most girls in porn. - It's toxic relationships. - It's a toxic relationship. - Oh, absolutely. - I saw it as a director. I would see it all the time where a girl would be in a great mood,
and they get their makeup done and they're like, oh, I'm horny. I can't wait to have sex. I can't wait for this. I love the script. Oh my God, this outfit's so cool. Like, fuck yeah, so excited. Oh, hey, I'm going to go make a quick phone call and then I'm ready to start. And they go outside and they make their phone call and they come back and it's like a ghost is in the room, you know, and they're shaking and they're not comfortable because I know, I knew, and I knew from being in shitty relationships before
Or it's like, okay, I don't mind if you do porn, but like before you do the scene, before you go suck another dick, you need to call me. You know what I mean? So I would tell him, I'm like, you
You know, because I even remember once I was like, look, in the days I'm on set, I'm directing. I don't know how often I'll get to... I will communicate with you when I can. It's not... You know what I mean? I don't know if I can call you before every scene. Communication is key. Comprehension is vital. Yeah, so I didn't make any unrealistic promises and I didn't... I didn't, like, make any promises, you know, that I couldn't keep and I was just very open and honest because I had nothing to hide. Also, I had been through it before where I want, you know, other girls in the industry to know too because I, like...
I was dating a guy and you know, he was like, just decided like every time I do a scene, he could fuck someone else. And I agreed to this preposterous thing being like, okay, that's, that's fair. That's fair. You know, like as long as you're cool with me doing porn, that's, I guess a good compromise. And that is, there's nothing you can compare it to. Like having a one night stand is not at all compared to going to work. Like a one night stand, even if like you,
like there's no way to have zero feelings at all you're fucking because you two people are attracted to each other yeah not because you're getting paid both the guy and the girl on set in porn you're both showing up to work you're both getting there's a third party that brings you together so even if you do wind up having the greatest sex of your life on set
like the reason why you're both there is for the same reason. You know what I mean? And there's a start and an end. It's a controlled environment, whatever. There's nothing. I think a lot of people don't understand that. And I think that you guys are such an inspiration for couples that are in the industry, even outside of the industry, because you guys have to be fucking like bulletproof almost because of the industry that you're in.
You have to set boundaries. Yeah, like, it was so inspirational to see you guys navigate this. But, you know, we also knew, like, I mean, we're, like, jumping around with, you know, timelines and this and that. And porn is in a much different, like, place now. I went to, you know, I sold my company in 2019. Yeah, we'll start talking about that. But, you know, it was kind of funny because in the beginning of our relationship, it was like he was dating me online.
I was in porn, you know, and he wasn't. And then when he got in, it felt like my performing was kind of like I wasn't performing as much anymore. I started in 2013. Oh, 2013. It actually felt like the tables had turned and I was dating. Like I was the person outside of porn dating someone in porn because...
Well, once my career took off, it really took off. So let's talk about the footage story. Right. I was going to reel it back. So let's do this. So anyway, I talk about how you sold. Yeah, I was. Career took off. I was. I so like we were going to I think it was right before Christmas or something. We were going to go away together for like a week or something. And so I wanted to shoot a bunch of stuff before I went away. You know what I mean? So I wouldn't have to think about it anyway. So I did like a whole day of like shooting a whole bunch of content, whatever, and
And I was like, okay. And then something happened with the footage and it got damaged. Like the hard drive. Yeah. And so I had no updates for my website. And then my editor's like, I'm trying to figure it out. Like blah, blah, blah. And she's like, we don't have anything. And I was like, oh my God. And you know, and my, my website had like a very strict like update schedule. And then, and it was, this was for actually for Joanna angel.com. And I just remember being like, Hey, let's just shoot.
something and I happen to have a little like camcorder that I brought with me when we traveled anyway and I would shoot like little solo things or like whatever um and I was like can I just like give you a blow job you know whatever we don't have to show your face you know like I just need something to update my website with and that was really how it started and so we wound up filming this like blow job scene were you nervous uh
Not for that because I was just us in a hotel room. But the first time I had to do a real scene with the crew and production, yeah, I was shitting my pants. And then it's like I put it on the website and then we wound up shooting a couple things that day. We shot like a blowjob thing and then I think the next day we shot like a little like...
quick little sex scene in the shower or something and then when girls were working for me I'd be like what guy do you want to work with look on the website and see what guy like you like you know and they kept asking for my boyfriend and I were like I want to work
Or sometimes we'd be on set and I'd walk in and the talent would be like, oh, are you the guy to fuck me? And I'm like, oh, I'm just making the tacos. Yeah. And I'd be like, oh, that guy's like not really. I'm sorry. No, that's just my boyfriend. And he just like. No, he's off limits. Yeah. Yeah. I was a contract star exclusive to her. So for a while he was just like working, you know, doing stuff with me. But girls kept like recording.
requesting him, you know, are you wanting him to work with other girls or were you cool with him just working with you? Cause that is probably harder. At some point what you actually did, you started adding other girls. Well, and your, her, her business sense kicked in and basically she approached me and was like, Hey, you know, can you a couple of times a month film one or two porn scenes for my, for burning angel? And I was like,
I'm good. And she's like, well, let me explain to you this way. She's like, I own this company and every time a guy walks in and fucks me or someone else, I have to write him a check and that's out of my money. And she's like, if you are that guy and you're doing it for me...
I save money. And that's one less guy I need to fuck. Basically, I was free labor for like two years for Joanna's company. I love that you took one for the team. So for the first two years of my career, I only worked for her company. And it was either with her or her directing me fuck other girls or threesomes or whatever. And I didn't get paid anything. And I still at that point, I was not thinking this would be a career for me. I was like, okay, I'm helping her out.
I was still pretty nervous. I still wasn't really having fun because my anxiety of it was so high. I was just always like, don't fuck up. Don't fail. Make sure you're all good. So the first three years of my porn career for me were actually really tough. How was your first scene without Joanna? It was Kendra Lust, wasn't it? Without you? Because you were just working with me and for me or with other girls. And then, yeah. And also there's another dynamic because most...
and adult, the wife isn't also a director. So I'm not only fucking different people, but now my wife is directing me with these people. And that's a whole unique dynamic. Also his, his own business was kind of going down and he felt guilty. Like, Oh, I'm not like contributing. I'm like,
but I was financially not in the best place. And she basically was like, shut your business down and come fuck some girls. And you know, the, the, the business, whatever, a lot of things were like, shut up and come fuck yourself. She's like, you're not a good businessman, but you're cute and you got a nice dick. Let's go. You know, I love that. I mean, it's almost like, you know, when, when, uh, you date someone that owns a restaurant, you might, you're going to wind up working in the restaurant. You know, it's kind of like burning angel was my whole,
life. Right. And it just he was kind of along for the ride anyway. And he would like kept like I was already helping in non-sexual ways. And like, yeah, he was just setting up a convention. He was kind of doing so much anyway. He was already like there all the time. And like it just
it all just kind of made sense so you ended up selling burning angel when oh that wasn't so when did you officially start porn so i started for you in 2013 but i didn't start for the world really at large till like 2015 and that's when like i really went yeah i was working like 25 days a month i didn't sell almost every single day i was on the set for like three years in 2019 okay um and you know
uh there were many factors that uh went into the decision i mean the first factor that went into it is that um i got an offer that i knew i wasn't gonna get again right um but you know it was a whirlwind you know i i i you built a fucking iconic yeah but there was a time i mean i'll i remember you know like life was just so busy and then aaron became this big star and i i you know it was very exciting that aaron's career like took off and was going so far but like
Do you manage him? I kind of... What? Do you manage him? Well, I guess I was. She sort of always has unofficially. Yeah. But, you know, at a certain point, I mean, I felt like we were kind of, you know, losing each other in a way. You know, like being a male performer takes...
Takes everything out of you. Oh, for sure. I mean, 25 days a month. And yeah, and it does affect your sex life. And I did that for a few years straight without any breaks. Because he had to save his kind of sexual energy for set, you know? So we weren't really like having much sex anymore unless we were doing a scene on camera. Yeah, a lot of our sex life in that time was on camera. It just became on camera and like, you know, and then I just like... You get disconnected. Yeah, also, you know, a lot of things were going on with the business. I was dealing with, you know, competing against like, you know, free porn and this and that, you know, like dealing with like...
A beautiful and raw moment that you can share with everybody knowing that you guys had hit that low point and other couples being able to see you guys go through that low point and still come out. Yeah. I don't know how many people really, you know. I mean, we've always tried to like, I like, what's the word? Like we don't, we're not reality stars. You know, we like having a private life and then we like having what we do, you know,
But at some point, you know people should be aware that you know while it's really flattering and it's Honoring to have these compliments about us like we go we've gone through some gnarly shit, you know That makes you guys real people I know I know the dialogue everybody wants to hear is like I think everybody just assumes we're in an open relationship to
too which so i think everybody wants to hear i think it's awesome when he fucks girls and he thinks it's awesome when i fuck guys and every day we're just like yeah everybody let's just both have sex with lots of people and we come home and we high five and this like everybody wants to think and there's like elements of that but yeah it's not not everything's so cut and dry everybody thinks me and jay are in an open relationship yeah i don't know how to explain it to people
Right. Yeah. We're not in a wardenship. That's too black and white of a term. Right. Exactly. There's fluidity that like every individual couple. I said, I said, we're not open. We're just open for business. Right.
Absolutely. Right. No, I get it. I get it. And it's context too because compared to some couples in the world, we're extremely open. And then compared to some of our friends, we're prudes. So we exist where we exist. In this middle ground. It got hard. And then everybody, a lot of girls just love Aaron very much. So it becomes hard as a...
as a wife, you know, like I'm kind of like an older person in the porn industry, an older person in general. And then, you know, there's like these 20 year olds going on Twitter as soon as they're done with the scene being like, I am so in love with this guy. Holy shit. I can't stop coming. I just had the best orgasm. And some of them, it's like, I'm really happy you guys had a good scene, but like, can this just, can you just keep a few things? Like,
supposed to be like a little bit attacked and i know well a lot of people don't have much tact but common sense isn't so common anymore and a lot of times it's it doesn't necessarily come from a bad place i mean what's wrong excited about work but because of the nature of the work you have to be like aware of your partner and how they are and how they might respond to it like you know um
I we both do like like to high-five each other and think shit's cool, but there's still a boundary. There's still yeah, I mean we made clear it's just respect tiny bits of respect but not from you guys only but just from the people that you guys work with too. Yeah, but um at a certain point I did realize you know, like I think I always wanted my life to just be this 24/7 like in the porn industry I'm very all or nothing about like everything I do
And I just remember having like a conversation with Aaron in the kitchen. He was very tired. He had worked for like 70 days in a row. We had barely seen each other. You know, I was getting really exhausted. My business was in the middle of a kind of tedious court case with the health department. And like, I was dealing with like lawyers. I was dealing with like budget issues and depositions and, you know, kind of just like trying to finish a script and like, you know, and I just remember feeling like, like this is like, like, like, you know, I, and you know, and I was like,
missing the early days of you know I don't know I was just like we need to like figure out um yeah like I love that you guys were so self-aware to be able to come to me like hey look we're losing each other yeah it doesn't matter what else is going on in our lives us is what matters yeah yeah and um so I was like I think it's time I sell my business you know what I mean like I think I think it's time and you know um
and that was a tough, a tough thing. First of all, I didn't even know if it was possible. I mean, you know, not that many people, but you know, it was kind of one of these things like, um, I was like, I don't know if we need to like live happily ever after in the porn industry, you know, like, like I love the industry so much. Like I loved the industry, like was my boyfriend. It was my husband. It was my family, you know? And like,
It was just sort of this like weird moment where it was like maybe maybe like I need to focus more on just you know us Instead of me, you know climbing in this in this business and trying to you know, whatever and him climbing in the business Yeah, yeah, I mean the working 70 days And you know in the spirit of like honesty you have to remember I never wanted to do this, right? So I was now
sort of reluctantly in this... I love the spotlight. I play in bands. You know, I'm a fucking ham. But I never really wanted this spotlight. And so now I have the pressure of being...
this A-list guy, which is, you know, it's a lot of pressure. No, for sure. I compare it to being like an MMA fighter, except the MMA fighters and boxers, they only do like two matches a year. Yeah, they're not doing it every day. Because when the bell rings, you better be ready. Absolutely. And it's pass-fail. You either are victorious or you are the one on the floor in the blood and you're looking like an idiot. And for porn though, okay, go do that every fucking day. Every day. I couldn't imagine. And that, it's,
it affected my mental health a lot. Absolutely. Negatively. And it wasn't the sex. It's the pressure. Oh, for sure. The sex was actually the only fun part about it. Right. You know, but everything surrounding it for me, and I felt like a, what's the word? I felt like a fool for turning it down because I was like, who gets these opportunities? And for the first time in my life, I was like, I've never made this much money before. Like, what? And so I almost just, out of like some sense of like,
guilt poverty or something was like I need to fucking do this and I need to be successful and This is her world. So what kind of a boyfriend would I be if I couldn't hang? It's also that and I hope I this does not we are absolutely like both of us Especially me, you know, like I love the industry like I hope this doesn't come across as no I love porn too, but it's just tricky because I see this but yeah, yeah, no and
Me and you both have a love for porn, but it's from different places and for different reasons. But my whole career was based out of like, how about for you? And I think also I started to realize I was getting...
I mean, my porn career lasted for much longer than, and it's so weird. I'm talking like a retired person and I'm in just such a strange spot right now because like I still do boy girl. I still, I still do scenes. I have an only fans. I even, I flew out to do a few studio scenes like a couple of months ago.
So, but just people are so weird about porn. Like, like they don't understand that like, just cause porn, I have like other things going on now and it's not my 24 seven bubble. Right. And whatever. And I, I all started. Aaron's having a hard time over here. I feel so bad. I am. I'm good. Yeah. I also realized like, I'm a hugger. So anytime you, one of you guys starts crying, I want to get up and hug you. I'm a cancer. So I cry all the time. Coming back to, to family, which is what we talked about at first. It was like,
Everything was just so crazy and chaotic. Like ever since I like moved to LA to like, yeah, it was a world and everything just like boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. But you know, the only time I felt like centered and calm and normal was when I went to go see my family back on the East Coast, you know, go hang out like,
with my sister in Brooklyn and I'd have like the time of my life. I'd go see my family on Jewish holidays that I like disowned. You know, I, I like didn't want to have anything to do with these Jewish holidays. Now I was like looking forward to like going home for Rosh Hashanah or something like that. Just because of like this, this nice normal tradition where it wasn't about like, like, you know, some job opportunity being this or being that. And,
People loved you for you, not for your performance. Exactly. They loved me before. They loved me during. You know, and it just, I always felt very calm. And something about just like that...
culture of LA where like everyone's climbing all the time. Everyone's climbing. I started to feel wrapped in that too, where it's just like, it was my dream for burning angel to do this. And then we did it. And then I was my dream to do this. And then we did it. And then I wanted to win this award. And then I wanted, and then I wanted this. And then I wanted this. And there was always like another goal, another goal, another goal. And it was just like,
It was like, you know, if I just keep doing this, I'm going to lose my mind. You know what I mean? Like it was just kind of, and then every time I came back East, I felt more centered, you know? And every time, um, I don't know. And then how did you and Aaron get back on track after you had that conversation? I mean, it's still a journey. I mean, is anyone ever? I had to leave LA, you know, we had to just like get out of this cycle because like even whatever we would do to kind of scale back a little bit, like it's like,
it's like moving out of la was moving out of the greatest i kind of made that decision i was just like it this was a weird process i mean it's kind of weird because it's been about a year now yeah i mean i've been following you guys since you moved yeah i remember last year in november i it this started as me booking an airbnb to spend thanksgiving with my family i'm like well because a lot of the stuff i was doing in l.a like that once i sold my business i was like
That was the first time I was like, why am I here? Like I sold my business. I came here for this, you know? And like you get older, your heart and your soul yearn for different things. Yeah. It was almost like it was just 20s is not what we want. It was like, go, go, go, go, go, go. And then once I actually had time to breathe, I was like, well, why am I here? You know, like I don't this is not really my home. This is where I came to work. Right. You know, and now that I'm not really working that much anymore,
And like, I have time to like relax a little bit. I'm not relaxed here. I just feel like I should keep doing more things. You know, it just something of there was just something toxic in the air and I couldn't really explain it. And then Aaron, you know, he wound up like I told him he was just kind of starting to like
you know, break down and he really wanted to like play. I was losing my mind. He was losing his mind. And I was like, Aaron, I don't want you at the time. And he had a great, amazing, like, thank you. You guys are like incredible. Like he had a contract with, with browsers, you know, and it came time. I literally had the best contract. Why were you losing your mind just from the pressure and the constant stress? It just, it was a hamster wheel that never ended. And you know, also when,
A lot of people don't realize too, uh, to be a porn performer, even if you're not on set, you're kind of 24 seven, always working. You got to watch what you eat. You got to work out. You got to watch what you put in your body. You got to be this, you got to be that. You got to take these supplements, you know, like it's, and so I just felt like not like a person. Yeah. And I, I started to feel that way too. So when it came time for like a renewal, it was contract, you know, I was like, Aaron, we're fine. You know, with like,
And I still shoot for the, you know, I'm shooting for Brazzers next month. But I scaled it back. He had to take a hard stop. I took a whole year off completely. Right. And now I do, now I just do enough that. I think you guys realize your worth now though too. Like you don't have to be a workhorse. You are, you guys have built such a name for yourself.
Yeah, we made it to the top of the mountain, so to speak. Yeah, and so now you guys get to say, hey, this is when I want to shoot for X amount of money. And like, you know, like you guys worked your asses off to be able to do that. Yeah, I feel very fortunate, you know, like...
Like I feel very, I don't take this for granted. I know that the position we're in is a great position to be in. But you guys worked hard for it. Yeah, we worked hard for it. It's not like it was just given to you. You guys really put in the work. You can't walk to the top of a mountain. You got to climb it. You got to put in the work. So for a while he took just like kind of a hard stop. You know, I was like, just stop doing everything.
Until you feel, you know, whatever. How do you... When you guys stop doing porn, though, do you guys feel like a sense of, like, emptiness? Or, like, where do I belong? I never really stopped. She's never stopped. And I only took a break, so to speak. But COVID forced everyone to kind of, you know, revisit. Right. But whatever. But anyway, I just remember... So...
I just, I remember last November now looking at my schedule, which I was like, I literally only have to be in LA like four days, all of November. So maybe instead of just going home for Thanksgiving, I'll just stay home.
home you know I'll stay back and I just kind of like this started with me just like getting an Airbnb to stay there for the holidays and then once I was there for a week and Aaron was was still like at home in LA and once I was yeah working or you were you were working on your I was working on you're working on an album I don't know we were and once I was back for like two weeks even you know I just remember telling Aaron I'm like
I have to move back here. I feel so normal. I felt like I was able to breathe above water. And I was like, okay. And the plan was I was going to go there, be with my family, and then Erin was going to come and meet me for Thanksgiving. And I was like, I want you to see if you want to live here. How did that make you feel when she was saying that she wanted to move back? I knew it was coming. Yeah. I mean, we had been...
going to New York for years, you know, constantly. And every time we were there, I'd see it on her face. I'd see it in her disposition. And it was, for me, I just was like, well, at some point we will. Right. I just didn't really know when. Like how soon. Yeah, but it was always in my mind, like, I bet we'll wind up. It just always felt like home. He said,
He said, I bet we'll win. Well, and because I didn't feel any attachment to LA. Yeah. And, you know, not to sound like a downer, but my family scene back in San Diego is non-existent. So I don't really, I kind of float around like a... A gypsy. Like a wanderer, you know? And I go where the wind blows and where the adventure goes. The Rolling Stone way. That's usually with her. Rolling Stone. Yeah, yeah. Full Rolling Stone. And then also just everything kind of happened. You know, I also always told myself...
Well, I remember when I first got into porn, I was like, oh, I could do this till I'm 30. I could do this till I'm 35. I could do this till I'm 40. I think every girl in the industry does that. Yeah, I know. And then now I'm like, but yeah, I wound up getting a...
you know, when, after I sold the business, they started looking for other things. I wound up getting a job with liquid death. Um, and it just so happened around the time when I got a job at liquid debt, they had said they were gonna, they were, um, opening up distribution in New York. New York was the last city they actually got a distribution in, in America. Um, and they were like talking about how they were going to need more people in New York. And this was right when I was like thinking of moving back. So I was like, wow, I can be that person in New York. So,
So everything kind of just happened for a reason. So what do you do for Liquid Death? So I work in their lifestyle marketing department. Gotcha. So I work in the marketing department. Liquid Death is now officially Dumb Blonde's water. Yeah. She sent me so many boxes of it. Yeah. So it's here. Drink it. I love it. Hydrate. Yes. So yeah, everything just kind of...
It kind of just started to all weirdly fall into place. Also, I need to thank, I don't know, OnlyFans that kind of gave everyone in Porn the Freedom where you don't have to be in Los Angeles attached to studios and we can kind of do things at the pace that we want. You know what I mean? And it can exist in the background of anything else you do. You could put it more in the foreground if you feel like it or you could use it as a hustle or a side hustle or both. You can use it as whatever you want it to be. So that...
was something I wasn't expecting. Like after I sold my business, I was kind of just expecting everything to sort of wind down and like I was just going to curtsy out of the industry. And then like during COVID, like everyone was like, you got to get on OnlyFans, you got to get on OnlyFans. Like it just doesn't sound like something that would work for me. And then like when it did really well, I was like, okay, well. That's what happened.
to me I was like I was not expecting to get another like hurrah out of my porn years you know I was like really thought it was the end you know you can do this as long as you want to yeah I think at this point it's safe to say I'm just gonna do it forever but but I tell everybody I'm gonna be on only grands yeah I swear to god like as long as people want to see my saggy titties I will be on there I'm not even fucking kidding yeah and I I love it you know and I still uh like I said I I
I still work with other guys, you know, like, but it's, it's not quite as often and it's more compartmentalized now, which I do think is very healthy being in New York, like where the industry is not there. I'll like go to Miami for a week and work on content and then not think about it for a month or two. You don't have to live in it. Yeah. I'm not living in it. Like an actually going to LA to work for a few days and then going back home. Um,
to New York, which it still feels just so great to say every time I say it. Like it actually, I was like, I wonder what my career would have been like if I never moved to LA because I, I felt like I got so much done because I was trying to pack a lot in when I was there. And then I got to leave. It was a different industry back then though.
It was. You really had to be there. You really had to be there. But like it was a healthy experience to like go have a great day on set, see people like do whatever. And then like three days later, just go back home. It really helped kind of compartmentalize it in a way. Separate the church from state. Exactly. And I've been just...
For myself, I'm working on, you know, just being a person. Like I'm like cooking and running marathons and having plans. I love that you're running marathons. I think that's so fucking awesome. I was rooting for you. You know, Aaron's been just working on all the things he loved to do before. His music, right? I've been seeing your music. Yeah, I mean, I've been putting out albums the whole time. I never stopped working on music, but at some point it,
Got really depressed because that was the one thing I swore to myself I would never nothing would ever take over that right and all of a sudden I was like wow porn really took over that and so the last couple years have been just really like a search for balance I think and like trying to Enjoy the porn enjoy the music enjoy this enjoy regular life. Enjoy the marriage, you know, but I
to do that meant removing at least myself from porn, porn, porn, porn, porn, porn, porn, porn, porn, porn, porn, porn. And I don't even think there's anything wrong with that. I think it was a necessary stepping stool to where we are now. It got us somewhere. But I mean, and I don't like regret doing it. I'm very proud of it.
But now that I'm 40 and you know, like I, it's, it had its era and now I'm happy with the less volume and a little bit of a regular life. Yeah. That's something foreign to us. Yeah. You guys haven't really got to live a regular life these past, you know, what decade? I mean, the whole time in LA, we've kind of been like public people 24 seven and now we can be like public people. We feel like it can be regular ass people, right?
But regular New York people, which is not that regular at all. That's what I love about the city. It's so weird. I mean, now we've been there for a year and like, I remember feeling this way. Also for me, it's weird. Like,
I'm living like a mile away from where I lived right before I moved to LA. So it almost feels like I blinked and had a weird dream that I became a porn star. Yeah, you're like, who is that girl? I don't even know her. Yeah, like who was that? What happened? Isn't that crazy? I left here and came back. That's how I feel every time I go back to Vegas. We just bought a house there in...
I don't know when fucking a couple months. And that's where you grew up, right? Yeah. And so every time I go back there, I'm like, who was the girl that fucking grew up here? Because I'm not that same girl. You know, I used to run through the casinos fucking robbing people. And now it's like, you know, it's funny because I feel like I'm very similar to the girl I was when I left.
I don't think I'm the girl I was in the in-between. The girl who was in LA, like, grinding and climbing and just, I don't know, trying to take over the world. Like, you know, like, it's, like, so weird. It's, like, weird. It's, like, I had a dream that I was that person, you know? I love it. I love you guys' story. It's really such a beautiful story. Very nice to be here. And I'm glad that I, like, wanted to cry when, I don't know, it was tough, I know, for Erin at first. And I was a little worried. I was worried that
maybe we wouldn't make it because I knew I'm like, I'm not a California person. I need to leave and I need to like work, you know, also Aaron, Aaron's career still had plenty of room to keep going up. Mine really has only one way down. I really kind of, I bowed or I took a step back at the height of my whole career. That's a boss move though. But I had to. Right. But still that's so cool that even if you didn't realize that you,
what you were doing at the time, the fact that you were like, you know what? Fuck this. My mental health is so fucked right now. Fuck the porn. Fuck the money. My marriage and my mental health is number one. And you step down. That's, that's like the manliest thing a man can do. It was scary. Yeah. Scary to do. I know.
Yeah. And then, you know, I know that like, I think if we would have just stayed in Los Angeles, like there would have been no way we could have, but that's because it's like those chances and just kind of riding with the wind. The older I get, I used to be so fucking like everything has to be on schedule. I have to do this. I have to do that. And the older I get, I'm realizing that it's like, what's meant to be is going to be, you know, and it doesn't matter. It just, as long as you learn how to coast, right. The universe is going to guide you. I know, you know? Um, yeah. And, and we're, um,
Aaron, let's talk about your music real quick before. Yeah. So I listened to a little bit of it before you guys came. It kind of reminds, and I hope this isn't an insult because I'm a huge Depeche Mode fan. Oh, that's the best compliment I can get. I mean, I don't know. You know, people don't insult. Ding, ding, ding. We'll take it. I don't know. I don't know. There's something wrong with that. It's really weird. Okay. But you know,
Kids nowadays would be like, who's Depeche Mode? It's true. I love Depeche Mode. So when I heard that, I was like, this is very Depeche Mode-esque. Thanks. Yeah. I've put out several records over the years, and now I have a new group called Soft Faith. Because the records I put out previously were just me alone. I played everything. I recorded everything. Under what name so that people can look it up? The group is called Soft Faith that I'm in now. Okay, but it's a new group.
And it's still the same kind of music. But the other records? The other records were under the name Empty Streets. So if you look up Empty Streets on Spotify. But those albums are basically like just me. I play everything. I read everything. I produced it all. One man band. But it gets lonely. It gets lonely. So now I have a group with an actual human. Yeah.
Still doing similar kind of music, but it's just becoming better and more better produced. Oh, yeah. Yeah, so if everyone looks up Soft Faith or Empty Streets, you can hear some of my vocals. What's their Instagram for Soft Faith? Soft Faith Music. Yeah, yeah, definitely go check that out. Next time we're in New York or New Jersey or doing the East Coast, I could probably talk Jay into letting you open up for him. That'd be...
yeah that would be amazing no he would love that that would be amazing yeah we actually just embarrassingly never listened to his music great song wow what a freaking song such a beautiful song it's mine i'd never listened to my husband's music either until after i fucked him but he actually i had that you know there's a lot of artists that i listened to in my a little younger days that remind me a lot of your husband and i was like i was so excited to hear that kind of
Yeah. I wasn't expecting to sound like that. I don't even know if that's what you call it. I married a rapper. Just so you guys know, my husband is a fucking phenomenal rapper. What? Really? I went down a rabbit hole and I heard some of that. Okay. Okay. No, I heard the whole spectrum. I married a rapper and now we're going into country. We literally have to have- How did that-
I guess that's an interview with him. Yeah. I'm sure he explains it somewhere. No, he does. So he put out like rap albums? Oh, yeah. That's all he was. Under the name Jelly Roll? Jelly Roll, yeah. Sorry. I'm sorry. I don't know anything. No, you're fine. You're totally fine. I should do my research. I know more about you than about him. I'm your biggest fan. No, you're totally fine. So when we had to have the conversation last night, I looked at him. I was like, baby, you know, I'm going to have to fucking shut my OnlyFans down now since you're going the country route because he's blowing up.
on the country charts. You're kidding. You'll make more than that. But my husband was like, why? I was like, because they're going to start coming at you. He goes, and then I'm going to ask them why, what are you watching it? I mean, listen to the lyrics of his song. He's talking about being a sinner. We have a relationship like you guys, you know, like he's very, when I got with him, I was still escorting and he just told me, but bunny, you're not going to have to do this forever. He's like, but you know, do what you got to do. I didn't retire until 2020.
you know, of being in the industry. So, and then I got on only fans to make up for it, you know, made up for it. Fucking tenfold. You know, I was like, God, if I knew everybody in China wanted to see my butthole, I would have fucking done this a long time ago, you know? But yeah, so I married a rapper. I did not marry a country, a country dude, but you know, you are not taking down your only fans.
No. I will not let you. You are, you know, not for these fucking music. Dude, I dated a band guy before Aaron. You know, I was like on tour with their band. I'm not even going to say what the name is because it doesn't matter. Yeah. But like they used to like be like, you guys can't post any photos together. Oh my God. The manager, you know, would sometimes take away my phone. Like I remember like going with them on, you know, like a talk show. You would think rock and roll.
and porn. Yeah. And I was like, so, and some of the shit I saw like backstage and whatever, just, you know, the, like, I was like, God, the music industry is so unprofessional and the porn industry is so professional. Like every time I get a glimpse of like,
I mean, I even like did a little thing like New York Fashion Week and like just the way I saw people like get treated there or even just like the shady contracts or anything. Anytime I kind of dabble with like anything in another industry, I am so thankful for porn because I, and I know my experience was different than a lot of other people's experience. I'm not taking away. I know some people have had their own sketchy experiences, but I, from, you know, the experience I've had in the industry and the things I've been around, everything was so straightforward and,
And like, just like everything's out on the table and like the payment was always discussed ahead of time. And the music, the music industry is so sketchy snakes everywhere. Yeah. And country lies and just, yeah. Yeah. Country. They're a little more religious. And so I never want to be the reason for my husband not being able to grow.
So if that means... Yeah, but fuck... Because I have two industries. I have the sex industry where the sex work that I do and then I have my podcast that's doing extremely well. My Patreon where I always tell everybody I have two empires. One with my clothes on, one with my clothes off. Yeah, but they feed into it because you use the same name. Absolutely. So if I have to shut this down for a little bit, I will just for my husband because I just feel like as his wife, you know, I...
But you know what? If you shut it down, they're not going to be, they're still going to be like, that's not good enough. I could still find it. It's like once you do it, like it's, you know what I mean? You may as well just own it because no matter what you do, hopefully it never comes to that. It's not going to come to that. Sorry. I'm very like, no, you're not. No, I'm usually the same way. I promise you. I'm usually the same way. And those Bible thumpers will talk shit, but they will both still listen to your husband and still subscribe to your own channel. It's never going to be enough. You can take it down. I needed to have this conversation with you guys. No, this is,
yeah now you're on our podcast and you are not but like if you took it down they're just gonna find an old photo somewhere and be like oh no this oh no oh I'm sorry this tour got canceled because of like like even if you take it down it's not gonna be enough for these people because I just you know so like you may as well just
You're right. You guys are right. I can't even argue with it. You guys are definitely right. There's no pleasing those people. And you know what? They're going to love it. Whatever. I would love you guys. We all got to hang out. You're going to love your husband too. I'm so excited to meet him. Yeah. Yeah. For sure. And I'm excited. We're going to hang out in Nashville for a couple of days. Thank you for having us. Dude, totally. What does 2023 hold for you guys? What does it hold for us? I mean, we're New York people now. Yeah. I love that.
I mean, not many people get to say they're New York people. You know, I feel like everybody's L.A., you know, that I know. Yeah. No, I know. It's like special to be a New York person. Thank you. I think so. Yeah. In my very own biased opinion. I think I think it's great. I love it. But, you know, I think 2023, what's most important to me is to is to just connect with my husband and, you know, go back.
to what we were before. You guys look like you're getting there. And I want to just, you know, do things for fun. Like, you know, I want to run another marathon. Like running the marathon was so important to me because this was like something I just did. Like this is not going to like advance my Joanna Angel persona in any sort of way. You know what I mean? Like I want to focus on things that just fulfill me.
me um as a person you know um i'm really so grateful working for liquid death and liquid death is just like soaring and doing like incredible things they're really it's so amazing to be a part of it so i really want to just like grow with the company and i just i want to like enjoy new york and like eat good food and like go to museums and and um and you guys and hang out with our dogs and
um and maybe one day have a family but i don't really know and is kids on the table off the table we've gone back and forth i i never ever ever like and actually up until recently we both were very kind of like nah it's not for us and then in the last couple years it's gone back and forth yeah i mean my my company like was my baby you know like and also my life was porn 24 7 like there was like
giant there was no room for a kid there was no room for every there was you know we were shooting in the house all the time and like on the big you know computer screens or something but porn everywhere right absolutely not a place at all you know to even think about like a child like fitting into there but you know
In the past two years, I wish women had endless time. Right. Well, we do now. They have surrogates. It's true. You can always have a baby. We've also discussed adopting a kid. Oh, I love that. Some of my best friends growing up were in the foster system, and I saw how terrible it was and how...
A whole life can be changed if you swoop someone up and give it to them. And just loved. Those babies want to be loved. Yeah. So that's kind of a thing that we've both like thought would be a cool, whenever we're ready, like a cool way to go. Yeah. I think you guys would be amazing parents because you guys have so much love to give.
You know, I think that would heal a lot of inner child. And we've both done so much like fucking up. We would know like, yeah, help someone else. Yeah. That's fine with my bonus baby. She can't get anything past me, but it's like, I, I, she's healed me so much and ways that she'll never know my inner child. How old is your, she's 14 now, but I've had her since she was seven. That's awesome. Her mom was an addict. So literally, and she's back, she's sober now and she's back in and we love you, Felicia. Shout out Felicia. Um,
But when we got her when I first got with Jay we got full custody within the first three months well together So we've had full custody ever since Wow, so you are you're the mom? Yeah, but I you know, I'm always bunny to her I don't ever try to take the place of her mom But yeah having a child around is so healing and you guys don't even understand until you go through the journey because it really is just such a beautiful journey frustrating and
very thankless but beautiful well we'll see we'll see what happens but regardless we want to just you know connect with each other and enjoy life I feel very you know
Like I said, I know we're in a very fortunate and very privileged, you know, place where we can sort of bounce in and out of the industry when we feel like it, you know, it's always going to be in our lives in some way or another. So it's kind of weird. Like, I feel like there's people really don't understand. Like, everybody has this dialogue where they want you to either, like, do porn and then hate it, you know, or you're just like 24-7 in porn. It can't just be like...
you know what I mean people don't think it's weird when like yeah it's real in the industry people don't think it's strange when like Lady Gaga wants to you know be in movies and TV shows they're not like wow she must hate music she must be traumatized by music that is the only logical explanation is she absolutely hates music it just goes back to labels everybody wants to put a fucking label on everything yeah yeah
So why don't you guys shout out where people can find you on your show socials? And if you want to shout out your only fans, all that stuff, you can find me Instagram and Twitter just at Joanna Angel. That's both verified accounts. You can find me on TikTok. Joanna Angel X. I'm really trying to be better at TikTok. I told you I'll help you. Yeah, you're going to help me do that. So yeah, Joanna Angel X is my name on TikTok and onlyfans.com slash Joanna Angel is my only fans. If you want to.
get weird. I'm going to subscribe after this podcast. And you can go to... You guys meet me over there. Yeah. And I do, as I've said it all on my own events, I do everything. There's boy, girl, girl, girl, everything and anything you could possibly imagine. And...
If you go to everythingjoanna.com, all my links are there. There's a link you can buy my book. There's just links to everything there. Awesome. What about you, Aaron? Onlyfans.com slash smallhands is the only fans. You can find me on Instagram at thesmallhands underscore. And you can follow my band, Soft Faith Music, on Instagram as well. Yay.
I absolutely adore you guys. Thank you so much for coming here. Thank you. What a great interview. Like I literally just wanted to cry. We just cracked the surface. We got to, we got to have a, you guys are coming back for sure. I really love your microphone. Thank you. I just like, I've been waiting to say it the whole time. Thank you. Mimi, my manager actually made this for me as a present. I fucking love it. That's a boss mic. That's a boss mic. Thank you guys so much. Thank you guys for tuning into another episode of Dumb Blonde. I will see you guys next week. Bye. Bye. Bye.
What's up guys? Don't forget to sub to Patreon so that you can see the visuals because not only do we have episodes of the podcast, we have exclusive content that nobody else sees on any other apps, behind the scenes, photo shoots, and we're dropping a whole bunch of surprising stuff this year. So if you guys don't want to miss out and you want to be the first to know, go over to our Patreon, www.dumbblondunrated.com. Love ya!
