476. Crime and Punishment | Tommy Robinson
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So, everybody, I'm talking with my wife and Tommy Robinson again today. Many of you know Tommy Robinson is, I don't know, maybe he's the most controversial person ever.

in the Western world at the moment. I mean, there's always Trump and it's hard to beat Trump for sheer controversy, but Robinson is definitely in the forefront. He was the whistleblower on the grooming gangs, the rape gangs in the UK, and he's been the enemy of the leftists, but also the establishment, so to speak, in the UK for many, many years and has paid a big price for his work as a

political activist and as a journalist. And Tammy and I talked to him about a month ago, just before he organized an assemblage of working class British people in Truffaut Square, about 100,000 people, very, very peaceful. And that, in turn, was just before there was a terrible mass murder in the UK that precipitated a series of

protests and riots, and then a real crackdown by the UK government, a crackdown that I do believe threatens free speech in a major way. The podcast that Tammy and I did with Tommy has been interfered with in a major way by YouTube and by Google.

It's been deprioritized in the search engines. The comments have been turned off. It's been demonetized. People can't share it. There's a community warning on it. And I think all of that is a consequence of the fact that what we were discussing is actually dead on target. And that's an indication that that's the case. And I guess in for a penny, in for a pound,

I was very interested in talking to Robinson. I'm trying to get to the bottom of things. I'm trying to sort out the story. And so is my wife. And, uh, we didn't finish doing that the last time we talked. And so I took the opportunity today, I hope to roast Robinson over somewhat of a slow fire insofar as I'm capable of doing that, uh, to face him with the allegations that he, that have been levied against him with regards to being a right-wing activist and to his past history of, uh,

of behavior that's resulted in convictions and imprisonment in the British judicial system and the penitentiary system. We walked through all that to the degree that we were capable, and that's what you're going to be presented with today. So thank you very much for your time and attention in that regard. It's a very controversial podcast. Hello, Mr. Robinson. Hello, Tammy. Nice to see you guys again. I suppose if nice is the word.

Hi, Jordan. Hi, Tammy. Good to see you both. Lots has happened. Yeah, well, and lots has happened. Well, it's been a month. And so let's maybe start with a review of what's actually happened as a consequence of our video. So the first thing is that it's probably accrued something approximating 4 million views, although it's hard to tell at the moment, partly because YouTube is up to the sorts of tricks that have become standard content

in today's media, I would say, so this is what YouTube has done. Certain features have been disabled for this video. In response to user reports, we have disabled some features.

such as comments, sharing and suggested videos, because this video contains content that may be inappropriate or offensive to some audiences. And so what does that mean? Well, it's hard to tell exactly what it means. It does mean that we don't get to see how people are responding to the video. Now, this happened relatively recently, and I can tell you because I've been tracking the comments that the overwhelming majority of them are extremely positive.

And so obviously that isn't going to fly and people don't get to say what they have to say about this video because, well, some people, some user reports have, or some of the people who are submitting user reports have decided that this was inappropriate content. So what else has happened? Well, if you search for our video on Google, it's really hard to find. And if you search for it on YouTube, it's also really hard to find. If you type in Jordan Peterson, Tommy Robinson,

Our video comes up about 10th. The first one that comes up has like 3,000 views instead of the multiple million views that our video had. And then it's the same thing on Google.

And so we've had our behind-the-scenes people at YouTube investigating and, you know, the scuttlebutt. And who the hell knows if this is true, is that, you know, YouTube is bowing to external pressure and some of that's submitted, well, by the powers that be in the UK. And so the reason I'm highlighting this is because

From a personal perspective, it's really, really annoying. It's really annoying that the comments are turned off. It's really annoying that it's demonetized and that it can't be shared. It's even more annoying that the search engine is being mucked around with so that

Our video doesn't come up first, as it should, so that it's not easy to find. This is a real perversion of public communication. And this is completely independent of the validity of your stance. And I don't know how to respond to this because, you know, my sense is if you're over the target, people get annoyed. Okay. And then what else has happened? Well,

I've got a lot of feedback about our conversation. I knew it was going to be contentious, and most of that feedback has been positive. People, reasonable people, I suppose, thought I should have raked you over the coals more. Tammy as well should have raked you over the coals more about some of the issues in your past, and so we're going to do that today. And then I guess we could talk about too, Tommy, let's talk about what's happened to you in the last month. So bring everybody up to date, and then we'll continue our conversation.

Thank you.

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This is their ability to take away my voice or anyone from hearing from me so that they can continually tell people how I think and what I think. That's all this is. This is them controlling the public's opinion based upon me.

So they don't want people sitting and hearing my long form discussion. They would rather their controlled weaponized media is able to give headlines as which we'll get onto over the last two weeks have been absolutely incredibly false. And they've lied about me to the entire world based getting onto the fact that there's been riots in the UK and the media have said that I instigated them and directed them.

There's no truth in that. There's no evidence of it, not a single piece of evidence. What they use is once the media say it once, and I've gone on to watch as journalist after journalist, once it was put out by the Daily Mail, journalist after journalist have continued to regurgitate it. And now it's spoken about as a matter of fact is that I controlled and I instigated the riots in the UK. Whereas the evidence is that I made video after video after video calling for people to remain calm and not go out in violence.

I just understood why they were angry. So the truth, and when we get onto the media, so the Daily Mail, and the Daily Mail run a headline, Peter and Tammy, that you've probably seen, where they tracked down where I was with my family. I was on a vacation. If I can go through the sequence of events, if that's best off starting from the 27th. So on the 27th of July, we held a peaceful rally, which we spoke about prior in our last discussion.

was the build up to it. And we didn't know what to expect. We knew what we were going to try and do and what we wanted to do. And we were totally successful in both of them. We held 100,000 people in the largest gathering of British patriots the country's ever seen in Trafalgar Square for a celebration of all the things that have been taken from us. And when I say that, our identity, our culture, celebrating who we are as a community and as a country and as a people,

and all the things that they've wanted to weaken about us. We brought about every community. The diversity of our crowd was everyone from every background to celebrate being British. And we sent a message to the establishment on the 27th of July that if we had 100,000 people there on the streets and we had almost a million watching live and it was totally peaceful and I'll explain why it was peaceful. It was peaceful because we organised ourself and we didn't allow any infiltration.

We've seen the allegations and the suspicions on January 6th that many of the people instigating the violence were working with the government. How could they do that on our demonstration when we made sure that all of our men, we had influential men, tough men from across the UK who came with the same mindset for a peaceful demonstration. And we made the rule that if anyone covers their faces, if anyone turns up wearing all black and

And we'll get on to why this is important, because we've seen riots in the UK. And if you look at each of the videos of the riots at the hotels, the people at the leading front of it are wearing exactly the same full disguises where no one can see their identity. And they're the ones instigating the violence. So we made it impossible for them to do that because they would have known that if anyone turned up with a face covering, 100 English men would be turning on them. Take down the face mask. What are you doing here? Who are you from?

So we held a peaceful rally. It was impossible to infiltrate our movement without being confronted. And we made sure everyone knew that. And we made sure that all the different groups of men that were coming from across the UK, which we held meetings beforehand, saying if there's five men, 10 men, 20 men, we must confront them. If anyone turns up to instigate violence on the street in our name, we will confront them.

And the security services, which I'm sorry, but it's the security services who have instigated violence in many demonstrations. In fact, if your people want to Google special demonstration squad, as you're watching this video, you will see secretive organizations in the UK that were from the government, which infiltrate demonstration movements to instigate a narrative that they want. They want us to be violent. They want us wearing masks and they want to be able to delegitimize what we stand for. And what's happened since the 27th of July

We had 100,000 people on the street. We had a celebration. It wouldn't have gone the way the authorities or the security services or any of them would have wanted it to go. And that was we have gone from working class. We are now peeling to the middle class. We're now reaching the masses in our movement. We have a larger reach than ever before. And the way they've managed to tarnish us and taint us for a decade has not been successful in the last six months. And the reason being, I have an account here on X. I can reach the public myself.

So the way they've censored us, as you're now experiencing on your YouTube channel, is they've silenced our voice and then they've told people how to think using their media. It's 27th of July. We have a successful event. The next day, I travel to the border of the UK and I'm arrested under counterterrorism legislation. What does that mean? That means that as I got in my car and as I traveled through the border, I was detained. I was told it's under Article 7 of the Terrorism Legislation Act, I believe, where they actually read out and it says...

We believe you're in the instigation and preparation of acts of terrorism, so we can now detain you. And both the officers said, well, we don't believe that, but this legislation gives us the power to now do this. So give us your phone. They seized my phone. They can seize all electrical devices. Then they sat me down for six hours under interrogation, where you do not have a right to remain silent. Now, this should terrify everyone because these sorts, it's like the Patriot Act in the United States.

They bring in this legislation to prohibit terrorism, so legitimate reasons that then take our freedoms away, and then they turn it and use it against citizens. So I'm sitting there as a journalist. I've held a peaceful rally, and here I am for six hours being questioned about certain things. One of the questions I was asked is, how do you think you're going to stop the Great Replacement? This is a question from counterterrorism in a six-hour interview where I do not have a right to remain silent. When I asked what that means...

If you don't answer our questions, we'll charge you under terrorism legislation. So if you do not give us a password to your phone, you'll be charged under terrorism legislation. So I sit there under interview for six hours, answer the most absurd questions about why there can't be a two-state solution in Palestine. What's my opinion on that? Wanting to know

wanting to question about who's organised behind the scenes in our movement that we've just held, what are we planning next? These are all legitimate things that have absolutely no business of the British state. But here they are infringing on my rights and our rights, and especially my rights as a journalist, because when they got into then seizing my phone and asking me for the passcode in my phone, at which point I said, well, I'm sorry, you're not having the passcode in my phone.

Because I work as a journalist, that's my phone. And I read their, before they got me into interview, I read their legislation and they weren't allowed to question me in interview that would do anything that would reveal sources of information for my work as a journalist. So I said, well, by opening my phone,

you're going to reveal privileged information between me and my lawyers because they're aware I've got a full-on legal battle with them now about the film that I've made, Jordan. I don't want to go off on tangents here, but I probably will. We spoke before. I made a decision on the 27th of July. I had 100,000 people watching, almost a million online. I made a decision to play a movie that was banned.

It was banned for three years prior. I had been prohibited from showing evidence to the British public, again, because they wish to control how people think. They had used their media to tell the public that I had lied. I had made a documentary that three years prior, I failed. I failed as a journalist. I failed as a father, as an Englishman. It's my job to protect and expose corruption, especially when it comes from the British state.

When the British state are weaponising courts, and what you're all witness now in the last two weeks is what I've known. They have weaponised the judiciary. Within seven days, some people were arrested and some people committed a crime. And within two or three days, it was televised to the British public as they were sent to prison for years for things they'd said on Facebook. What this has been an attempt to do is to scare the British public.

intimidate them into silence. The reason being, we are on the verge of a cultural revolution in Great Britain. And what does that have the ability to do? What we've done on the 27th of July has the ability to inspire the entire West. It has the ability to inspire the sleeping population of Europe. The population who know everything that's happening to Europe right now with open border mass immigration is wrong.

Okay, they're destroying our culture and identity nation by nation, people by people. They're attacking us. This is an attack on the West. Now bringing 100,000 people on the street in a peaceful celebration and sending a message to the establishment is not certainly not what they want. So what we've witnessed since that day is a full-on attack and especially against me. And Jordan, I can go on talking about this, but if it's okay, I will so that people get the full context of what's happened here. I'm taken in by counter-terrorism.

by the time I'm released, and I got questioned about the film that I played. I make an allegation in that film. In that film, the film was about- That's Silence, great. This is Silence, which- The film is called Silence, yeah. The film is called Silence. It's pinned on my Twitter, which is at T. Robinson, New Era. The problem they have, they can't stop people viewing or restrict the comments on X because they don't have control of Elon Musk. That's

That is why they're upset with Elon Musk. It's why Elon Musk is now being called a danger to our country. It's why he's now being labelled as far right, as an extremist. All the same labelling they give to us is now what he faces because they don't have control. So at the minute, I think when we spoke before, I was hoping that 10 million people would watch the film.

And the reason I was hoping that was because it totally exposes the corruption of the judiciary, the weaponization of the judiciary, and the way the media and all of them conspire together to control a narrative, and the way they destroy anyone who gets in the way of their narrative, which is what I've currently faced. That film is currently on 44 million,

million views. I currently face, as people, the media have said that I'm currently on the run. That's what they've said is I'm on the run and I fled a court case. So I go to leave the country the next day. I'm detained by counterterrorism. I'm held. They then make the, when I refuse to give my pin code, I say no. And I'll give the reason so people understand. As a journalist, I've made a five-part documentary series called The Rape of Britain. In

In that, we uncover corrupt police officers. In episode six, we're about to uncover a corrupt politician in the same town who has allegations of child abuse against him. We have covert recordings of this. Why would they want access to my phone? Which is what I was asking them. Am I going to give you access to my phone when I have my sources of information on there for this? And so people understand my concerns because they're legitimate concerns. It

In Rotherham, one of the towns hit by the rape scandal of Muslim men raping young English girls, the police actually deleted evidence. When young girls went in and gave them their underwear, which had the DNA of men on it, who had raped them, when they then went back in for the prosecution of the case, the underwear had gone missing. Yeah.

In Rochdale, in Telford, in Alder, in all of these cases, the police worked against the interests of the public. They worked to hide the evidence in these cases, to get rid of evidence and protect the rapists. And not just protect the rapists, but protect the dirty hands of lead police officers and lead government officials who had allowed this rape to continue for a generation. So many of them had dirty hands. So I told the police, why would I give you, why? I

These girls have come to me to tell their stories. They trust me, not you. And the reason they do that is because whatever you put on your computer system, and in fact, in episode five of our investigation, it was the police who gave the address of our survivor to the Muslim gangs. It was the police who leaked the information to families at the school. It was the police. So no, I'm not about to put the jeopardy or the safety of the survivors or anyone who's given me their information

that who's given me their trust in confiding in me with information so I can expose it. And that goes for whether it be about corruption of the court cases, the judiciary or the rape gang. So I told the police in uncertain terms, you're not going to get a pin code off of me. And if you want to charge me under terrorism legislation, then you do that. And at which point I was transferred from the port to a police station to be charged.

I then had a solicitor, because up until this point, you don't have a right to remain silent under terrorism legislation. I then get a solicitor. We're both told, including my solicitor, that we're about to be prosecuted. I undergo interview where I explain exactly what I'd already said to the police. No, you're not having it. And this is an abuse of police power. The first question to me was, what is your opinion in terrorism legislation? What is your opinion of the UK right now? And I said, a totalitarian state.

And they said, care to explain that? I said, yes, I'm currently sat here under no investigation. You don't believe I've committed any offence. But here I am without a right to remain silent, being quizzed about my legal and lawful activism and journalism and under terrorism legislation. This is a totalitarian state. This stinks of nothing more. This exposes nothing more than a totalitarian state. So I went through all of this. And then when it gets to, I'd undergo my interview and I'm sat in my cell for five or six hours

and I don't get charged. So I haven't yet been charged. So something happened between this and this for them to make a decision, bail him. And that's what they've done. But they took my phone. They took my phone to download every bit of data. This is the government and the state receiving every bit of data off of my phone to do with my work, my activism. Even after I told them I'm a journalist, that's my work phone. But they've still gone in. So this is what happens on the 28th of July. I'm then released.

I'm released on the 28th of July at 11 p.m. I don't have a phone, but I continue to make my way where I was going. I drive through France. By the time I actually get a phone in Spain, by the time I get a 16 or 18 hour drive, I'm then informed when I get online that there's been a murder of young girls in Southport, in the north of England, where a man has gone in and he's butchered lots of children in Southport.

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That's all that was given to us at that time. Now, the alarming bell for me, not the alarming bell, but whether this is conspiracy or not, because this proves it is, is that evening there was a vigil or the evening after. There's a vigil for all the children who have been killed. Southport is a close-knit working class community and all of the families have come out.

And they're there. And so people can understand what were they going through in this community. A few days later, I spoke to one of the uncles of these children who were attacked. His seven-year-old niece, the man entered the building. He grabbed her by the hair. He stabbed her in the face. He stabbed her and took her bicep off. And he stabbed her in the body. Then he dropped her. Then he walked in and he continued butchering. Now, this one family and the uncle I spoke to, that was his niece.

The goddaughter on the other side of the family was nine years old and she was dead after being stabbed seven times. So just so you can imagine the anguish, the anger from this community that was going on, they've all come out to hold a vigil and around the corner from the vigil, a man of Arab appearance has been detained with another big knife and a balaclava. So word has quickly spread amongst the vigil that there's another planned attack on the community. They

That has boiled over into anger, into frustration and into clashes with the police. Now, I didn't organise this. I hadn't even had a comment on it at this point. But that night, when riots started ensuing by the British public, not by any organised group, the police come out and made a statement saying it was members of the English Defence League. Now, as soon as I heard that,

So your viewers and listeners understand, I formed the English Defence League in 2009. It ended in 2015. That's a decade. There's not been an English Defence League for a decade. There's no organisation. There's no membership. There's no meetings. There's nothing. It's unheard of. OK, it's unheard of. But by blaming rather than the... I was trying to work out why they were doing this. And then I've received it's probably to land it on my feet. So they can tarnish me with the...

If they have to accept why are people rioting on the streets of Southport, it's the British public. It's not an organised far-right group. But by straightaway labelling these British people as far-right, they don't have to discuss why they're angry. I'm taking four of my esteemed colleagues and you across the world. Oh, wow, this is amazing. To rediscover the ways our ancient ancestors developed the ideas that shaped modern society. It was a monument to civic justice.

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Let me ask you a couple of things about that, Tommy, if you don't mind. So you should probably walk people through what the English Defence League was, because that's one of the accusations that's levelled against you with regards to being far right. We should also probably take apart this...

this massacre of these young girls. Because my understanding is when that first occurred, that rumors were spread that that was like a first-generation immigrant was involved in the stabbing. Now, it turned out that it was the second generation, it was the child of first-generation immigrants. And I'm not trying to make a case for that. I'm just trying to lay out the facts. And so it isn't obvious to me

How do you understand the uproar about the stabbings, the murders, in relationship to the furor that's developed on the immigration front? So let's walk through the English Defence League. Also, I'd like to talk about the British National Party too, which you were involved in, that Wikipedia defines as fascist.

And so those are two things we can deal with. And then I also want to know how you understand conceptually the connection between your activism and that big rally that you had that was peaceful. And because that had an effect, and there's no reason to assume that that didn't increase the probability that...

protests of the sort that we saw in the aftermath of the stabbing were likely to occur? And how do you construe your own responsibility for the heightened probability that such riots, for example, were likely to occur? So there's a lot of things to walk through. English Defence League, British National Party, and then your understanding of the relationship between your rally and the

The protests that did degenerate into violence in the UK. Let's see if we can sort that out. We'll start on the British National Party. So you're right, the British National Party was a fascist political party. And when I was 21 years old, I held my first ever rally. And it was called Ban the Luton Taliban. It was against the increased Islamization and jihadist organizations. We spoke about them in our last meeting. Now, when you're drowning, you clutch at straws. And Luton and my town was drowning.

And I looked for anyone talking about this issue. The only people I found talking about it were the British National Party. Now, the reason why people know I was a member of the British National Party is because there was a leaked list in this year that I'm talking about. Now, the leaked list showed five years. So I joined one year. I don't join the next year. I don't renew my membership. And I'll explain why.

So I joined the British National Party. I looked for someone talking about they held a meeting. I turned up to their meeting. I spoke about in our last sit down, I said that I was part of a football culture and there was a large group of us who went to football together. So the British National Party would have been excited that they had

boots on the ground in Luton, young men who were boots on the ground for their activism. Now, when I joined the British National Party, I had no idea that Nick Griffin, who was the leader of it, was a former member of the National Front. As I said, I wasn't political. I was just a young lad. And their first 10 points, you'd have to be brain dead not to agree with them. When you go on the website, homes for British pensioners, all the 10 points you'd agree with, yeah?

So they hold a meeting. We turn up to the meeting as young lads. And this is actually documented by a far left magazine called Searchlight. And it's called When the Migs, which is Luton's football community, Luton's football hooligan element, the men in gear fell out with the BNP. So we went to a meeting and when we got to the door, they said, he can't come in, he can't come in. And it was the black lads. And we said, what do you mean they can't come in?

And they said, well, you can't be a member of the BNP unless you're white. So we told them, you're not having a meeting in our town then. You're having no meetings in our town. And the BNP was non-existent from this point. So non-existent. So four years later is when I formed the English Defence League. And from the offset, we were welcome to every colour, every race, everybody. So I formed the English Defence League in 2009. I want to get onto the far right label because this is provable as well. The media called it far right.

From the start, we had a Sikh leader, Guram Singh. Great lad. We've done more to educate the British public and the predominantly white working class community of what Sikhs have given, what other minorities have given into the UK. And the reason being, I'm from Luton Towns. The majority of my friends aren't white. So the ethos of the English Defence League started with my mindset.

We had a Sikh division, a Hindu division. We had a lesbian and gay division. We had a Jewish division. We had divisions from every community. Doesn't sound very far right. Now, let's not allow the media to decide whether an organization is far right. There's a national extremism unit within the Metropolitan Police Force, and it's their job to define groups like the English Defence League and the BNP. The BNP were categorized as extreme far right. The English Defence League, the entire time I led it, centrist organization.

So because the media say it once and then say it a hundred times and then it gets regurgitated by the media and politicians and all alike, it was far right, it was far right. It was never far right. And it was always judged by the national extremism unit of the Metropolitan Police Force who are professionals and whose job it is to do this and look at groups as to what constitutes actually far right is that Muslims should enter dialogue

This was their advice, which the officer got absolutely hammered for. But their advice was the English Defence League is a centrist organisation and Muslims should enter dialogue with them. People should listen to them. That was the entirety of the time I led the English Defence League. So I left the English Defence League in 2014-15. So your viewers understand what it was. We were an organisation that brought to the forefront issues which government, media, politicians didn't want to have discussed. They were issues that bring about the failures of open border mass immigration.

the effect it has on society and the reality of living in a town that's been open, that they've flooded with people of all different cultures. So a group that come about to highlight and bring to the forefront. And remember, grooming, which we spoke about, no one even knew there was no word grooming. It's a pretty word they give it. There was no word grooming. No one knew of these rape gangs. In fact,

everyone was attacked or we were demonized for trying to talk about them. Now, years on, everyone accepts they were a reality, as were many of the problems we spoke about are now accepted as legitimate and accepted as truthful, which is why videos I made years ago have aged well for me and not well for my opposition. It's why people are listening to me now and realizing that they lie. It's why it puts them in a bad position and not me. I can sit here and say, well, I told you the truth. And the public who have been crying out for the truth

who are angered, who are scared. At a time like this, when our culture is disappearing, when our country's being flooded, they're looking back over 10, 15 years and they're saying, well, he was telling us the truth. He wasn't lying. And against all the flak and all the attacks and all the imprisonment, they still maintain telling the truth. And that truth isn't far right. It's not even extreme. It's the truth.

Okay, well, so a couple of things there. So you said, for example, you're objecting to the labeling of far-right. You make the claim that many of your friends aren't Caucasian or aren't white, a very difficult thing to define. You talk about the English Defense League bringing in Sikhs and Jews and people from all sorts of different ethnic groups. But there's also an anti-mass immigration policy.

through story in your discussions. And so how do you distinguish between the kind of immigration that has brought you the people that you have had friendships with in Luton and the, what is it? Is it the grooming gangs that's drawing the distinction? Like,

What is it that you're trying to tell people about immigration, given that you also have friends from all sorts of different ethnic groups and races? And you're also denying any allegations of racism or even ethnic prejudice for that matter. And partly you point to the fact that your English Defence League had different groups of people in it, but also your own friendships. So what makes you convinced that you're not a far right figure? And what is it specifically about immigration that you're trying to object to?

I'm not denying it. I'm actually hated by the far right. I'm despised as a race traitor. I've made comments. So Angela Merkel, David Cameron, these were all the leaders at the time of the English Defence League. They all come out and said multiculturalism's failed.

I went on record as saying, actually, you're all cowards. Because what's failed, if we want to admit what's failed, Islam's failed. Sikhism hasn't failed to integrate or assimilate into British society. The Jews haven't failed. St. Lucian's haven't failed. Everyone else, they haven't failed.

You are taking a problem that what's failed. And I just speak about my experience from growing up in Luton. And again, I'll set the record straight. Not every Muslim. OK, I'm not saying every Muslim. Some of the best people I've met growing up are Muslim. Some of the people I love and still have relationships are Muslim. But per se, Islam and the community of Islam have looked different.

Inward, they've created ghettos and there is no integration. And I challenge any journalist, any journalist, come to Luton and find me Muslims with non-Muslims. And every time when I was leading the Inter-Defense League and a journalist would come and interview me, I said, you walk through the town and you try and find me Muslims with non-Muslims. You won't find them. You'll have the Muslims and the non-Muslims. Now, we didn't create that. We can't be on our school. I speak about when I screw up.

It was the Muslim playground and the non-Muslim playground. So I grew up experiencing this. I experienced the separation, the segregation, the zero assimilation. And I knew something was very, very different. And until, I think in 2011, I was spending 22 weeks in solitary confinement. And I challenge again, anyone listening to do this. Take the Quran. I was sent in the Quran by a Muslim outreach organization trying to convert me. So I took the Quran and thought, right, let's look at this.

and I opened it and I challenge any of you to do this. And every time it says, do not be friends with Christians or Jews, just write the verse number. You will have pages and pages of verse numbers. So then what you have is children being brought up. And if I brought my children up,

And all of us as white people brought our children up to do not be friends with black children. We would see hostility and violence sooner. When you have a superior ideology that teaches them they're better than people based on the color of their skin or their faith. And that's what Islam is. It's a supremacist ideology. And all of a sudden, when I started dissecting this book,

Ever think I'd seen my entire life growing up made sense. Ever think. And these Muslims are being brought up to believe this, to believe that this is the word of God, that this is what they want. That's why we don't have assimilation or integration. So when I talk about the problems, I've only ever spoke. I haven't spoke against immigration, which is why I'm under attack by people who are against total immigration.

Quite currently, right now, I believe we need to end immigration. But the whole time I led the English Defense League, I said, no, I'm against Islamic immigration. And that's because you're mixing oil and water and it doesn't work. And I can only speak from experience of what I've seen. The more Islam... So why is it a problem? Let's assume that...

for let's assume that at least in part that your argument is valid and that you did experience the Muslim tendency in Luton to be more segregated compared to the other ethnic groups that you're describing. So I could say, well, that's okay. If people want to associate with their own kind as a consequence of their belief, that's part and parcel of a multicultural vision. And so why is it that you think

object to it and why even do you have the what the temerity to object to it people can associate with who they want and So then it's not reasonable for you to call out a specific religion regardless of what it believes And so what do you think of an objection like that? Because we have within that Islamic within that confined Islamic community and we've had documentaries go down and speak to Muslims in Luton and

who said, I've never met a non-Muslim. I've never met one. They've grown up in Luton. They've never met a non-Muslim. So they're going to go through inward looking. And within that community,

It's a problem anyway for integration and assimilation. But within that community, and again, I bring on our last episode, I spoke about Al-Majruddin. Al-Majruddin are now a prescribed terrorist organization, but they never were. And I try to explain it to members of the Muslim community like this. You've got a close-knit Islamic community. And within that close-knit Islamic community, there's a bunch of activists who are active every day, 25 hours a day, seven days a week. This group are active. And they're teaching all the non-Muslims that

they're teaching supremacy and violence against non-Muslims because within that community, that's what's happening. Al-Majruddin, 60% of terrorists, UK Muslims on terrorism charges or in jail for terrorism are ex-members of this group. Now, within that community, they're,

If you change it to the white community of Luton and you have the non-Muslim community, and within there you have a thousand Nazis who have place tables set up and are continually promoting Nazism, sooner or later, the violence is going to come out of that community. Well, that's what we've experienced. We've experienced something we never even understood. We had to learn about jihad before anyone knew what jihad was because it was being taught. Jihad was being taught as part and parcel of the Islamic community within my town.

So all of these problems, and that's not just that, there's so many problems that come from the community. The hostile view, the mainstream hostile view against women, especially non-Muslim women. Well, those non-Muslim women are my daughter. They're my mum. And they're walking through the streets of Luton.

And you've got a community that's promoting a negative view of women, but especially our women. And we look at the Quran and we look at scripture, we might understand why. But unfortunately, as soon as you try and have that discussion, you're far right, you're racist or you're extremist. And the people that are calling you that have no knowledge of Islam. They don't know anything they're talking about. They don't know Muhammad's teachings. And you're not even allowed to talk about Muhammad's teachings. Going online without ExpressVPN is like not paying attention to the safety demonstration on a flight.

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Well, sorry, Tommy, let me bring Tammy into this for a moment. And so I'm going to introduce her with a couple of different questions. I mean, there are many forces within the Muslim world that are trying to establish something approximating a detente and a peace with the Western world. That's exemplified most particularly with the Abraham Accords. And the Abraham Accords have

stayed intact despite what's happened after October 7th and all the activism on the side of Iran, for example, doing everything it possibly can to destabilize the Western universities and to bring out the demise of the peace process that was established under the Trump administration. And so there are positive forces operating within the Muslim community that are trying to bring something approximating peace. And so it's dangerous,

to segregate Islam as such, you could make this case, it's dangerous to segregate Islam as such because if we can't continue to communicate with the moderates, then the more fundamentalist types that are likely misusing what might be a core religious doctrine to push their fundamentalism and their, essentially their race hatred and their sadism. And so

It's very difficult to walk through that and separate the weak from the chaff. Tammy, what I wanted to ask you is, like, you insisted before we did that first interview that you trusted Tommy Robinson. And...

I asked you why and I want you to reiterate that. I also want you to tell me if that's still true and I want to see if you have some questions that you'd also like to levy at him. You've watched what's happened in the last month since we did our interview and so maybe you could reiterate for people why you thought we should do this interview and what drew you to want to talk to Robinson to begin with and what your conclusions have been given what we've gone through in the last month. Well, first of all, I'd say that I'm for free speech.

And I see Tommy as putting a light to issues that nobody else will talk about, and that's important. And he's also outlined his experience personally that has been his guiding light to, it looks like what has been his guiding light in what he has done. I guess my question would be, why is it that Muslim culture has become so strong today?

And I know that there's lots of people there, but what happened to the Christian? What happened to the Christian word and the Christian values that uphold our societies? I think there's a, from my point of view, I think that there's been a, you know, a disillusion of our Christian values. And so this other more aggressive force has come in

and taken the place of what used to be a place of Christianity. And so I think that it's complicated. So I think it's complicated. Yes, I think that immigration isn't as orderly as it was. So now, you know, people are getting into not just the UK, but into Canada, into the United States, into Sweden, into lots of different places. And people aren't

using their common sense to regulate that. And their faith. Common sense and faith. Well, common sense and faith go together in some way, because it means you're using your intuition, which is using something that's smarter than you to find your way that you're not guiding, but you're finding, you know, it from within your heart to do what's best. And

everybody here is now so self-guided that I think we're getting in each other's way way more often. And I can't speak for, I've looked at the Quran some, and I am making my way through it. And I agree with you, Tommy, that we should be reading that book because everybody should know, if we're not going to read the Bible, let's read the Quran. I mean, we have to know what we're up against and

We've left the Bible. We've left the Bible and we're not going by those values anymore. And so we're going to be lost. And those policemen and those government officials, who are those people? Who are those people that they're not willing to stand up for British values?

for British values, and they're not willing to tell the truth. Like, what's going on with them? Why don't they have the conviction to be, I mean, these are their families and their communities that are going to suffer if they don't stand up. So what's going on that Tommy has to shout from the rooftops what's going on with the

Muslims. Okay, so let me take that apart a little bit. So from what I understand, well, you made reference to what might be a broader social problem, which is, well, there is an incursion of fundamentalism, let's say, and that's coming in arguably primarily from the fundamentalist Muslim side. And it's making major inroads in places like Luton, and people like Tommy are at the forefront of that. And so you're highlighting the fact that it

It's a tremendous weakness in the West, perhaps primarily on the faith front that is allowing that and that we should look to that and attempt to address it. And that you feel that Tommy has been found himself and also adopted the position of being the canary in the coal mine with regards to that warning. So, okay. So I have another question for you, Tammy. It's like,

Your personal response to Tommy is also interesting to me. I mean, you know, we put ourselves, you and I, we put ourselves at substantial risk as a consequence of that interview. And I don't regret that a bit. I think it was the right thing to do. But that was partly based on your intuition that we could trust this man. And so I'm still curious. So let's divide this into two things. I'm curious about why you trust him and if that's still the case.

despite all the things that have been levied against him, let's say, some of which we haven't got into yet. And then, Tommy, I'm also interested in your comments about Tammy's sense that the West has allowed itself to be weak in the way that

has produced the situation that we're describing and that we bear, you know, as Westerners, we bear a tremendous amount of responsibility for that. So, Tammy, you start first. Well, first of all, I think that the working class in the UK are trying to stand up and to protect. And the rest of the people in the UK, the people who are more of an upper class, are hesitant.

hesitant to join or even support that kind of movement. And that's a question. That's definitely a question. You know, I'm from a working class place and so are you, Jordan. And I was raised in a working class town. And so I think that what Tommy is doing isn't foreign to me.

His response isn't foreign to me. It seems like something that if we had friends in high school, one of our high school friends would have been doing that thing.

Or maybe even ourselves would have been doing that if we were in that situation. So I can see myself in Tommy in a way that makes me less skeptical of what he's doing because I can see the necessity for speaking up and telling people what's going on so that they have a chance. Tommy, yep, I think so. Tommy, you got any questions about that? No.

Yeah, my point is, look at what you've faced or look at the attacks. Has anyone actually gone for anything we've said and drawn a factual, said this is factually incorrect? No. No one's challenging the discussion. Well, and I would also point out, Tommy, that you talked about the corruption of the judiciary. I'm in trouble with my college licensing board in Canada for saying things that people, the trouble that I've

that Tammy and I have encountered as a consequence of interviewing you is a variant of trouble that we're quite familiar with. My governing board, the College of Psychologists, is doing everything they can to re-educate me and to suspend my license, and the judiciary in Canada has essentially refused to hear any of my appeals. And so, you know, so I...

sit there wondering whether I'm far right and didn't know it, or if I'm in the same kind of situation that you're in and facing a judiciary and a political system that's become corrupted in some manner that's so fundamental that it's kind of a miracle.

Corrupted in its... Well, if someone has a problem with what we said, tell me what it was that I said that was wrong. And this is the problem. They don't. And the reason being that they want to attack... If they attack, why aren't people speaking up? I think you said, Tammy, why aren't there more people speaking up? Well, look...

Look what they do to anyone that does. Do you know how many whistleblowers there were that attempted to talk up during the grooming scandal? We found out once it all become knowledgeable. They were destroyed. They had their reputations destroyed. People within charities in those towns and cities and people within the police force that attempted to speak had their lives and reputations destroyed. So what's happening to me, you get to hear my story. Do you know how many people this is happening to that you don't get to hear? Across... And that's why...

weaponization of the judiciary. You hear my story, you hear Donald Trump's story, people can make their mind up on it. Do you know how many people are being silenced across the West by that judiciary? How many people are having injunctions put against them or are being bankrupt? And the targets... I actually think, Jordan, and Tammy, since we last spoke, everything that's happened since has totally proven everything I said.

In the matter of fact, what have they said by the headlines? I instigated the riots. That's what they're saying. The British media have said, and what they did is they came and found out where I was with my family, and then they made me front page news. They actually doxed where my children were in a resort. They said that I fled the country and I was in hiding.

that holiday was booked for 18 months. That holiday was booked for 18 months. Now, they said that, and they put me as the instigator for the riots. And that was published everywhere. And then characters like Piers Morgan, you know, earlier you said,

There was allegations that it was a Syrian. I never shared those allegations. So there's not one person that can point to anything I'd shared that was factually incorrect about the Southport killer, yet they want to say that I'm the instigation of the riots. So Nigel Farage shared that it was a Syrian refugee. I didn't.

I didn't share any information until I had the knowledge of who it was. So that no one can levy that against me. Piers Morgan said I'd done that, factually incorrect again. But then I'm not the one with the media. They're the one with the mainstream media. So the mainstream media have gone out. What I've done is I took what I've said and

and what my advice has been. And do you know what they used? In the Daily Mail article that put me as the bearer and the instigator of the violence, the example they gave of my inflammatory tweets was mass deportations needed.

So once again, what we've seen, I'm the scapegoat. I'm facing total imprisonment, calling for my extradition, terrorism charges. There's not one single shred of evidence. Not one person can point to what I've said or what I've done, whether it be a tweet or a comment that instigated violence. In fact, all of the evidence is the total opposite. So luckily, the people who have seen my videos, which is millions and millions on X, they know that they're being lied to. But I don't

think the authorities or the government or all the powers that be care about that because they have the power of the media. So they continually, every day, if you go on now and Google Tommy Robinson, look how many negative stories there are about me today. Every single day since I put 100,000 people on the street, since I had a massive peaceful rally, every single day I've come under complete and utter onslaught by the media without one shred of evidence.

Let me delve into some of those again, because I want to go through everything that we've gathered that people are coming after you about. And so I'm just going to read the listing of allegations that we've gathered. Convictions for assaults.

Public order offenses and mortgage fraud. Allegedly violated court orders leading to imprisonment in 2018. We talked about that a little bit in the previous discussion. Defamation of 15-year-old Syrian refugee 2021. Allegedly linked to the 2017 Finsbury Park mosque attack. Exited Britain with an Irish passport.

Banned from multiple social media platforms, including Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram, for violating their policies on hate speech and incitement to violence. Well, I was banned on Twitter, so, you know, join the club. Accusations of mis... In fact, I think you and I were reinstated at about exactly the same time. Accusations of misleading and inaccurate reporting. Robinson has been criticized for spreading misinformation and making inaccurate claims in his reports and documentaries, particularly regarding the grooming gang scandals.

So we could start with convictions for assault, public order offenses and mortgage fraud. Maybe we could do this, Tommy. I mean, let's do this. If you look back at your past, I mean, what do you think you've done that hasn't been right, that has increased the probability that you're going to be the target of these sorts of allegations?

So there's the mortgage fraud, the public order offences. Let's walk through that. Let's walk through them. Let's walk through them. Bearing in mind what you've witnessed in the last seven days, that British pensioners are being put to jail for gesturing their arms aggressively at a demonstration. That's what everyone does at a demonstration. But they're getting 20 months. A man who said, Allah, Allah, who the...

is Allah just got 18 months for saying that, yeah? So what you've witnessed is not actual crimes, but you've witnessed being people sent to jail to set an example, yeah? And I'll give an example again. Muslims drove from Manchester down to Golders Green, the Jewish area of London. They drove through on a tannoy system out of their car saying, we're going to rape your daughters, no prosecution. The leader of Hisbuk Tahir stood on our capital city under a banner calling for Muslim armies and demanded jihad.

in the name of Islam, no conviction. So what the country have seen, and I'll go through my experiences. Let's start on the mortgage fraud, Jordan. When I started my activism in 2009, between me and my wife, we had seven properties.

two businesses and seven properties. All of my mortgages were 100% legit. And what they'd done is they went and got a five-year investigation. And in their warrants, they went through my mum's accounts, my dad's accounts, every family member bank accounts. Now, what they got on my brother-in-law, my brother-in-law who was 21 or 22 at the time, he bought his first property. Now, when he bought his first property, the banks used to have, they used to encourage self-certification mortgages.

So it was encouraged by the banks. So basically, if you want to get a mortgage, as long as you put down 20% deposit, you could just self-certify how much you earn. You don't have to show your wage. You don't have to show your contract from your company. You self-certify. Now, as I said, I had seven properties. I was buying repossessions and doing them up and keeping them. We were remortgaging the money. There's no question about any of my mortgages. So my brother-in-law, I lent him £20,000 as a young man to get his first property.

He bought a property. He said it was £80,000. He bought it. He put £20,000 down, £60,000. He spent nine months doing it up. He sold it nine months later. So he buys the property. He said he earned £20,000 a year, but really he earned 12. So he buys it. He gets a mortgage. He sells it. The mortgage company are paid back.

Three or four years later, after this, they come in, they go through all the forms and they say, well, he lied on his mortgage form, which the whole country lied on their self-certification mortgage forms. It was encouraged. They had no evidence against me. So he lied on his form. What he lies on his form has nothing to do with me. So they get him and then they say that when he sells the property, so he buys it for 80, he sells it for 120 after doing the property up after nine months.

He makes a profit. The mortgage company are paid back. So there's no one being defrauded. They then say that the profit then becomes the proceeds of crime because he lied on his mortgage form. What do they do? They nick him and they nick me. They then charge me on tax evasion. They go through my companies. They charge me on tax evasion. They say, I owed the bank. I owed them £137,000 tax.

They hold me on these conditions for four years, Jordan. They freeze my assets. They close. I had two successful companies. Both of them were closed down. So people understand the truth of what went on with the mortgage fraud. I had no mortgage fraud. They got me on tax.

I got not guilty within two hours of the tax investigation. What they then done in court was they listed my wife to stand trial for tax. Now, no one knows what my wife looks like, all my children, even though the Daily Mail tried to expose them last week. No one knows. I can't walk down the street in the UK without being prepared to fight. My wife can. So they then

put her on trial. Then they pull me out of the court case. They sit me down and say, plead guilty to these charges. We drop your wife. We drop your other family members. So I took a plea deal. And I took a plea deal that got me 18 months in prison for a mortgage that had nothing to do with me, where a bank lost no money. So when people want to list, remember, if you look now,

And it frustrates me because I've never been tried by a jury, Jordan. All the other allegations you're going to read, look what they say in there. I lied about a Syrian refugee. Watch my documentary, Silence. I didn't lie about anything. I told the truth. They lied. They continuously lie. Now, I'm not saying I'm perfect. The assault charge, and again, this is all documented, the assault charges, I'm leading the English Defence League at the time,

Every time we say we're against racism and we're not far right, the media say we are. So we had a problem with certain far right nationalist groups trying to attach themselves to our organisation. There's actually a film that was made by Channel 4. And when I sit down on the coach and they say, what do we expect today from the demonstration? I say, I'm going to kick all hell off. And they said, what do you mean? I said, we need a clear out, yeah? So I got on the stage at a demonstration. And I'm telling you this because...

I had no other choice. I'm leading a street protest movement. That's what I was leading. And we needed a clear out because the far right were continually trying to attach themselves to our movement. So I got on the stage at this, and this is on a documentary. I hold a Sikh lad's hand, Gurmit Singh. And I say, if you're in the crowd and you don't like what you see here, you're in the wrong place.

This is our England, yeah? Not your England, not what you want for it. So show yourself. And I name a far-right group that were called the North East Sinfidels. I say, where are you? You go against everything we stand for, but you're in amongst our thousands of supporters. There's a little group of you, but you keep coming in our crowd and we don't want you here.

So I called them out. Now, what I do is I leave the stage and I knock one of them out. And that was to cause a separation of the groups. And it totally worked. So when they talk about my assault, they don't want to explain it was for a far-right Nazi wearing a Combat 18 t-shirt. They don't give you the context of what it was. Now, that was us making a conservative... I had to do that as a leader of an organization when Nazis were trying to come on the streets with us.

So I let them know, you're not coming. And then I made a video afterwards, Jordan, saying if anyone has a problem with that, if any of you, next time we come to us on the streets with you, it's on. And it's on from English men who don't want you there. They never come on the streets again, Jordan. They had masqueraded themselves within our movement. And that was the assault charge. So when they give this list of charges, one of the others is,

the mortgage fraud, the contempt proceedings. What you're going to soon read, Jordan, on my Wikipedia page is that I got two years in jail, which I face now, because I lied about a Syrian refugee. Watch the film. I didn't lie. I told the truth. So yes, they've tried to set an example about me. Are our courts weaponised?

What have you seen in the last seven days? We have seen knife crime out of control, migrant gangs out of control, jihadists out of control, 40,000 Muslims on a terror watch list, and they managed to, they clear our prisons out to open spaces for pensioners who might have said something on Facebook. That's what you, and then they've live streamed those court cases.

What you've witnessed in the last seven days is to terrify the British public into remaining silent. You better shut up while we open your borders. You better shut up while we're bringing hostile people into community. And if you open your borders...

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I think Constantine Kissin has pointed out from Trigonometry that there's been more than 3,000 convictions in the UK for, essentially, for Facebook crimes. So this has been building for a long time. There was only 600 in Russia. Right, right. So this has been building for a long time. And, you know, I also think that what happened to our interview on YouTube is emblematic of exactly this proclivity to define certain kinds of speech as criminal.

criminal as far right and to suppress it entirely. Tammy, one of the things you and I talked about leading up to this interview was the gathering of the kind of information that I'm torturing Tommy about right now. And we should talk about allegations linked to the 2017 Finsbury Park Mosque attack. But Tammy, are there other things, other questions that we haven't addressed that you have on your list?

Well, I'm kind of curious about the passport, the Irish passport. Yeah, yeah. Can I quickly, do you know when I just said, so on my mortgage fraud case, I get sent to jail on mortgage fraud. I leave the English Defence League. This is factual. No one can deny this. I get taken into a prison cell. I'm sat in prison. I'm in Winchester Prison. I've been violently battered. I lost my teeth in Woodhill. So I'm sitting in Winchester prison.

I then get a legal meeting. I go to my legal meeting and I go sit down in my legal meeting and two young men come in and they're younger than me. And then you wouldn't think they're police officers. And they said, no one knows we're in here visiting you. No one. Only the head governor. So when you go back to the wing of prisoners, you can say whatever you want as to who's come to see you here. I said, OK. They said, why? We're from the Metropolitan Intelligence Bureau, MIB.

What's the MIB? It's a secretive unit within Scotland Yard. OK, if you the reasons you've get for leaving the English Defence League, if you're true and you want to help your country, which is what you've said, and you oppose these far right ideologies, we're asking you when you leave prison, will you work for us?

I said, what do you mean work for you? I said, just left hand not know what right hand's doing. You've just absolutely tried to destroy my life for so long. So I refuse. And they say, where do you, and I give the recording to this, where do you see yourself in five years time? And at this time in my life, I'd had enough about talking about Islam. I've been battered in jail. I've lost everything. I've been to jail. I was in prison, but I've managed to hold on to the seven properties that my wife and me had.

So I said, when I get out of jail, they said, what's your plans? I said, well, I'm going to sell my properties and I'm going to go back into building. They said, where will you be in five years time? I said, I'll be a multimillionaire. I'll be a successful young man and a multimillionaire. They said, okay, well, we're asking you again, will you agree to work with us? Will you contemplate? I said, not a chance. I'm no one's slave. I'm not working. I'm not a grass. I'm not working for anyone.

I leave prison. So I come out of prison. I'm driving. And again, I put the recordings. Anyone who, you might be able to find this speech here because they try and hide them all. It's called Tommy Robinson York Free Speech. And I put the recordings in here. So I'm driving in my car and I'm on the motorway. Boom, police come from everywhere.

I'm shut down. I'm arrested for burglary. I'm taken in and I'm questioned about a burglary. My head's thinking, what is this all about? What is this all about? I get released the next day, bearing in mind I've got nine months of prison license left to do. So I get released. I go home. I get in and my wife says, Winchester Prison's been on the phone.

I said, which is where I've just been released from, which is where they made an approach to me in Winchester prison. So she gives me a phone number. It's 0207. Well, 0207 is London. It's not Winchester. I said, why are they being on the phone? She said, you've left property there. I said, okay. So I ring the number. He says, Tommy, it's Ollie. Ollie from the MIB. I come and saw you in jail. I said, okay. He said, well, you're in a predicament now, aren't you? I said, how am I in a predicament? They said, what's it going to look like if the media get you on a burglary charge?

I said, I haven't burgled anywhere. I'm not in a predicament. I haven't left the motorway. They said, okay, well, if you get charged when you answer bail in four weeks time, you're on a license recall for nine months. Now for me, prison's death, possibly, because jihadists control the prison. So I sat there and I swear to God, I cried my eyes out. I come off the phone. They said, all you have to do is agree to have a meeting with us. I said, I'm never having a meeting with you.

you. I hung up the phone. I cried my eyes out. I said, what am I meant to do here? What am I meant to do? And if you look at every single terrorist that's gone on to commit acts of jihad in our country, they've all had prior involvement with our security services. The MIB are the security services. Now, they tried to approach me. What happens then is I'm out of jail. I then get a letter after refusing. I get a letter from my lawyer saying they've launched confiscation orders against me. And they want £125,000 off me.

Now, the £125,000 comes from the house that was sold by my brother-in-law. Well, he bought it for 80 and sells it for 120 or 125. They want me to pay the entirety of the money. Even though 80,000 or 60,000 was a mortgage, they want me to have to pay it back, even though it had nothing to do with me. So I get a letter. I then get a court date to go to court. I then get contacted again. Tell me you will never have to pay this money. Come and have a meeting with us.

This is blackmailed by the security services. At this time, and I urge any of you to go watch this, I sit down with the lead officer from counterterrorism. My probation officer for being released from prison was counterterrorism. Why? Apparently I was in prison for mortgage fraud. What's that got to do with counterterrorism? When I got released from prison, all my conditions were not to contact the English Defence League and not to talk about Islam. Well, how is this? What's this got to do with the mortgage fraud I'm supposedly in jail with? So I then sit down with the lead officer of counterterrorism. I said, you know what? I've got a

I've got a date to talk at Oxford University. I'm blowing the lid on this. This is blackmail by the security services to get the blackmail in position to work for them. I'm blowing the lid. Two days before I'm due to talk at Oxford University, boom, I'm unlicensed recalled. I'm put back in prison for 28 days on a recall. And they used the fact that someone threatened to rape my mum. I went online and posted saying, well, you don't need to look for me because that's what the threat said. And it was on Twitter. I'll be here tomorrow and I'll give where I'd be if you want to come and find me.

They use that to license recall me. I spend 28 days in custody. I come out of jail. I sit down with my probation officer again. I'm pretty stubborn, if anyone hasn't noticed. I refuse to back down. So I said, I've arranged to talk to Oxford University. You're not going to stop what I'm doing here, yeah?

Watch my speech at Oxford University. Do you know how it starts? If you watch it from 2015, the speech, she sits down, they come back to me and they give me a list of things I'm not allowed to talk about or I'll end up in jail. Islam, the police, security services. Yeah. So I said, so I don't have free speech. Now, if you watch my speech from 2015 at Oxford University,

What I say is the speech I wanted to give you, I'm not allowed to give you. I'd be threatened with prison if I come and tell you my whole speech was going to be about the British police state and how they operate. And I'm now not allowed to do that. So the security services have been looking since 2015 saying, well, how do we deal with this guy? Because I sold my house. You know, I paid them £125,000.

I paid them £120,000. I had to sell everything and give them £125,000 or be in their pocket forever. And I refused to be in their pocket. So when we talk about the different cases, that's my mortgage fraud. The passport case, it wasn't actually an Irish passport. I went to America. To your American audience, I apologise for disregarding your laws. But in 2011 or 12, I come to the United States.

I landed in 2011. I was detained at JFK Airport and I was told on no uncertain terms I'm getting deported back. I got sent back because the British had requested me not to be allowed in. The

The next year, I decided to come. I used my friend's passport. That's where I used my friend's passport. I got entry into America and I gave a speech after a New York State Senator. And I recently dug up that speech. And in that speech, I say, I wish someone had come to my hometown 30 years ago and warned us of what was going to happen. Well, I'm here to warn you because I'm not talking about what I've read. I'm talking about what I've seen and lived through open border mass immigration and what's going to happen to the United States of America.

I gave a speech. I land back in the UK. I was reminded I spent 22 weeks on solitary confinement for that crime. 22 weeks of solitary confinement. So that's the passport case. Was it wrong for me to enter America illegally? Yes, it was. Did I come with a very important message for the United States of America? A massive message that if they'd listened to it in 2011...

They might be in a better place to protect the United States of America now. As I said, I can go through every one of these instances. No one can refute these. There's no evidence to refute what I'm saying. In fact, I played the recordings in my York speech of the police interviewing me on burglary. Now, many people, I can have every allegation you want against me. Everyone knows I'm not a house burglar. But they use that to get me in a position. I don't doubt that they're blackmailing Muslims day in, day out, the security services,

act and work in a certain way. I have no doubt at ever the dark powers that play in the British state. And that's what I've spoke openly against. So when I say why, they don't know how to deal with me, simply. They don't know what to do. And that's why I think now I face two years in prison again. And so tell me about that. So you're out of the country. I don't want to ask you where you are, although maybe you want to

enlightened people as to your whereabouts. What is your legal situation at the moment in the UK and what are your plans? And then, Tam, if you have any other questions, maybe you can follow up after that. So where are you? What's your legal situation? What are your plans at the moment? I'm in Russia.

No, I'm only joking. I'm only joking. Have that as headline share. I'm not in Russia. My plans, everyone's telling me to run and everyone's telling me not to come home. I'm coming home. I'm not running. I'm not running.

I don't believe I'm on trial. I believe the British judiciary is on trial. The problem that they have is 44 million people have watched that film. That means there's 44 million people, including influential people across the world, that know that I told the truth. If they wish to lock me up for that, lock me up. They will lock me up. We've seen what they're doing with the current state of things. Will I be in danger? Yes, I will. Am I worried? Yeah, totally. Totally worried. Worried for me, worried for my family.

I'm in court on the 28th and 29th of October. So I currently don't have to be in the UK. I'm, again, something I haven't talked about. In the last seven days, they've knocked at all my, the police have gone to my family's addresses, including my mother and father's, and told them their lives are in danger.

So I've had a hell of a lot to deal with. Do you know what it's like sitting somewhere, knowing that you called for calm, knowing that you held a totally peaceful rally twice in a row, knowing that you haven't instigated violence or attacks against mosques, but watching as the entire world's media say you have?

There's no evidence to it. No evidence at all. They are putting me in danger. They're putting a target on me. Since then, Somalians, certain Somalians have said they want to kill me. There's been Muslims making videos with machine guns. All of them have been lied to. They resurrected a dead organisation of the English Defence League that hasn't been around for a decade. And they told the entire British Muslim community they're all about misinformation.

They're on about prosecuting people for misinformation. The British government and its politicians and police forces told the whole Muslim community of the UK that the English Defence League was coming to attack their mosques. There is no English Defence League. There hasn't been for a decade. The British public were on the streets, but what they...

successfully managed to do by labelling everyone as far right, by putting an ideological spin on the reason people are angry. They haven't once had to talk about open border mass immigration. They haven't once even had to address why people are angry. It's just they're angry because they're far right and they're racist.

No. Yeah. And they've had a success. It's a total successful campaign by the government. If you look at what they've done, there was an uprising on the streets of the UK. And rather than have to address one of those issues, the Labour Party, not one of they had to address. What they've instead done is turn it on the British public, then have show trials in order to intimidate and silence the British public into saying, you do not get angry. This has been our January 6th moment. And it

And right on the end of us having the most successful cultural revolution organisation in the country seen, they've just blocked it, totally blocked it. Use the mass media, use the politicians, use their weapons to totally deceive and lie. And again, I ask,

If I've done all these things, and I keep asking Piers Morgan, I know you was on the show with him last week, why don't you sit down with me, Piers, and show me where I've instigated violence or attacks against mosques? Show me what I've said that's encouraged violence. Do you know what? Do you know what? I've heard one news reporter say, well, he said that there was attacks by Somalians against a woman in Ipswich. Yeah, that was a Times newspaper. Yeah.

I quoted the Times newspaper. How dare I? So no one's been able to show me what I've said that's misinformation because I haven't. I wasn't part of the campaign to push it was a Syrian refugee. I remain silent on that fact. In fact, I come out and corrected certain falsehoods. But again, what the people need to understand is in the seven days prior to the riots, seven days prior to the riots, I don't know if you're aware that today there's been a terrorist attack. Why?

Will I get done for misinformation in that? A migrant has gone and stabbed a bishop walking out of an army barracks in the Republic of Ireland whilst muttering about the Irish Army's involvement in the Middle East. That's what's come out right now today in Galway, I believe, in Ireland.

Now, in the seven days prior, and this is very important that people understand what built up the frustrations of the British public. We've watched since October 7th, Hamas have took over the capital city, calls for jihad by mosques and imams, desecration of war memorials, no arrests. We're continually told by the police we can't arrest people for burning flags. This is freedom of the speech. They've committed no crimes. So we've watched all of that.

And then we sit and we watch as a migrant gets off a motorbike. He's been in the country six months. He waits for an army officer in uniform. He doesn't attack anyone who's not in uniform, even though people who aren't in uniform are there. And he butchers that army officer. This doesn't even make lead news. I remember making a video the next day saying, why am I not watching this on the news?

An army officer has been attacked in full uniform and stabbed to pieces. It's not even making the news. What's going on? And then we get told, of course, it's mental health. So that incident is sidelined as mental health. The British public are watching because we're able to tell them actually an army officer has been attacked in a ferocious knifing. His wife comes out of the house and jumps on the man that's attacking him. The man that's attacking him doesn't stab his wife.

He continues stabbing the officer. The only person he attacks is in a military uniform. Very similar to what happened to Lee Rigby when he was beheaded by Michael Adoblago. They didn't attack the bystanders in the street because they said that they're not the targets. The military are the targets for the British involvement in Muslim lands. So this looks very similar. Why don't I believe that the police and government, why they tell us it's mental health? And again, anyone listening to this, go on Google now and type in Russell Square attack.

You will see an attack in Russell Square. A Muslim goes into his mosque in the morning, says he wants to kill non-Muslims. They don't report him to the police. They say a prayer for him. What he then does, he leaves. He leaves the Muslim community. So he don't come out with a mental attack and start stabbing anyone.

He leaves the Muslim community. He travels to Russell Square. He stabs seven non-Muslims. He murders an American citizen who's a tourist. He gets stabbed to death. In between each of these attacks, he shouts Allah Akbar. Now, try and find this on the terrorist attack list. You won't, because it wasn't deemed a terrorist attack. It was an incident of mental health, like so many others. And when they have these mental attacks, they don't go and kill anyone that's Muslim. There is non-Muslims that are killed. So we don't believe them. So this happened.

Then we have the riots up in Leeds, where basically a Romanian child went into hospital with a fractured skull. Now, we have protections for children where if there's questions about the parenting,

which I don't believe the parents were at home when this child had a fractured skull, so they see it as neglect, they went in to take the children as protection. So they take the children. As they do that in this close-knit Muslim and Romanian gypsy community, the Muslims and the Romanians, both of them, because there's evidence it was both of them, come out and burn police cars, buses, and attack the police. Now, the images that the British public watched were as the police run away. They didn't

get their dogs out, horses out. They didn't come in with batons. They literally legged it and left them to burn the estate. Now, as they burn the estate, an English mother comes out of her house, went the next night when all the crowds are there again and start saying, will you please go in your houses? Stop causing the problems. I have to live here. The police arrest the English mother. They take her away. So what we've seen, and then the Romanian gypsies make a statement saying, unless the children are given back tonight,

you are going to talk about these riots for 100 years in this country. Now, as soon as they said that, I put a post out on X saying, guarantee they give the kids back. I know they're going to, because this is what works in Britain.

By that late at night, the children are given back to the parents. There's no riots. All the gypsies and all the Muslims go off the streets. So this is what the public are watching. Then, all in this quick seven days, then what we see is a Muslim at Manchester airport is kicked in the head. You may have seen it go viral. He's kicked in the head by a police officer whilst laying on the floor. It doesn't look great. It looks ferocious by the police officer. But we have no context as to what happens before that.

Now, what we then see are thousands of Muslims target Rochdale police station where the Muslims have been arrested. And we then find out three officers have been injured, including a policewoman who's had a broken nose.

So the Muslims come to the police station. They attack the police station. There's no police officer in sight. There's no dogs. There's no horses. There's no riot shield. Literally, the Muslims are given free reign. We then hear Muslim commentator after commentator in the UK threaten the establishment and say that they better prosecute the police officer.

Then the police come out and give a statement saying they've released the Muslims. They're released. They're not on remand in jail. Even though you've seen all these people being remanded for Facebook posts, they're released.

And then they say a criminal investigation has been opened against the police officer. So they give the Muslim community what they're demanding. The next day, we see the video released of what happened prior to him getting kicked in the head. Guess what happened? The Muslims violently attacked the police in unprovoked attack. I mean, punching and beating police officers, which is a straightaway you'd get reminded if you do that. How are they out on the streets? And then the police would already give a statement saying they've been released.

because of insufficient evidence. Well, now we're watching a video. You had the evidence. You were about to sacrifice the police officer who actually done a fabulous job. Literally, he gets attacked from behind. He pulls the man down who's been tasered and instantly kicks him. He didn't even have a second to think, yeah? And he's an armed response police officer. So these Muslims violently attack him, could have got hold of their guns. So the public have watched all of this and they're asking the questions as to why did you release them?

Why are you prosecuting the police officer that done nothing wrong? It's the whole situation again from the United States. It's the whole situation with George Floyd. They've surrendered and they've get the police officer over for a lawful arrest. Whether it looked bad or not, it was within the law. And that's what they've done to this police officer. So this all happens. What message of the British government told us?

the country, if you riot, we'll listen. That's what they told them. And then an attack happens straight after this. So you have to understand the prelude to what's happened. And you have to understand that attack after attack and aggression after aggression has not been dealt with. The police have not made arrests against the Islamic community. They literally run away from them. And literally at the same time as this,

They attack British protesters, whether it be on St. George's Day. Now, yesterday was Independence Day for Pakistan. The scenes we've seen across our country are the police dancing with Pakistanis, celebrating Pakistani Day. Well, that's not what we saw for our St. George's Day. We saw police with batons and riot shields attacking English men, dragging their St. George's flags off them and beating them. So what you have is a British public who feel totally oppressed by their government and

police force and if they didn't feel that now then as we're watching people be in prison for comments on Facebook many of them anti-establishment comments you're putting people in jail for anti-establishment comments whereas you haven't put people in jail or arrested them for calls for jihad how

for calls from the river to the sea. Oh, that's legit. But you dare to say Allah, Allah, who is Allah? You're getting 18 months. So they've actually ingrained on the world stage two-tier policing and two-tier judiciary. And the public have had the opportunity to see exactly what I've known for 15 years of my activism. I know that we have a two-tier policing and two-tier judiciary. And in the last seven days, that judiciary has been totally weaponized. And the target is the British public who are standing up.

up. And yes, there were men committing crimes. And yes, there were riots. And if you wanted to deal with them, but how come the four Muslims who got arrested or the three Muslims, they still haven't even faced prosecution. Yet women are in jail for Facebook posts within seven days. What is going on? That's what the whole country is asking. It was very, very rapid, very rapid and very public. It was really something to see.

So, okay, so Tommy, I want to bring Tammy back in here for a minute. But before I do that, I want to ask you, look, you're at the center of a major controversy, and that's not going to go away. And what would you say, this is kind of a stark question, but I don't know how to more intelligently formulate it. What frightens you about yourself?

What do you think about you is, what are your characterological weaknesses? Like you're in a rough position and it's necessary when you're in a position like yours is to be very aware of your various sins and stupidities. And so, you know, you said you've been very emotionally upset about what's happened to you and you've been traumatized in prison and you've had your finances demolished and you've been the target of judiciary investigations for a very long time. That's very stressful. It can make people

What would you say? Touchy and volatile, you know? And I can actually understand that. And so, like, what do you see in yourself that's dangerous? And how are you trying to control what I suppose the terrible things that you could purposefully or inadvertently bring about?

Okay, so yes, when the country was at its highest point, again, when Lee Rigby was beheaded, when Lee Rigby was beheaded, I held a demonstration to 10,000 people. No one wants to pick up what I've said. I stood up and said, there's 660 Muslims serving in our armed forces. They're doing more for the country than me. If you attack a Muslim woman, you're a coward. I've always educated and been pivotal on my points of nonviolence, always. But yeah, what is the danger for me? The

The danger for me personally is I'm going to back down. It's simple. And that doesn't mean I'm not scared. I'm scared now. I'm terrified. I have felt under attack at times. I've never felt what I felt for the last two weeks. Never. I've never ever felt this. I have got it coming from every angle, from everywhere. What does that do to me? Does it make me cower? No, it makes me come out fighting. And

And it makes me come out fighting in the sense that I'm willing to be the sacrificial lamb for you. Yeah, I'm willing to. And you better believe it to the establishment. If you think putting me in jail and getting me killed is going to solve your problems, you're going to spark the revolution like you cannot imagine. And I'm willing to be in that position. So I keep putting myself in the way saying, go on then.

What are you going to do? Because I'm not going to back down on the sense. And why am I not going to back down? Because I wholeheartedly, Jordan, Tammy, to anyone watching, I wholeheartedly believe our country is at stake. The future safety of our children is at stake. We're supposed to shut up and remain silent whilst we're replaced, whilst hostile communities are brought into our nation, whilst our rights and freedoms are taken. If you don't

How, after the last seven days, you can't see our rights and freedoms are being taken? Well, we're not going to remain silent while they take them. And I'm going to scream it from the hilltop. So what faults do I have? That's my fault. My fault is that I should have backed down a long time ago. I should remain silent probably only

anyone reviewing this may say I come across as aggressive. I'm passionate and I'm passionate because I've had every thought and every worry going through my mind for the last two weeks as I watched the entire establishment's media, government, politicians lie about me. But I also know there's an army of people watching this who have seen their lies.

So there's people that you think you can just silence me. It's not going to work. You're going to martyr me and I'm not going to back down. And do you know what? You're going to create a thousand Tommy Robinson's. You've already done that with your actions over the last seven days. They've already done that. So there is no winning for them at this current situation. People are awake. People aren't backing down. Our fight for freedom without your weight, without...

our fight and love for freedom will outweigh your want for tyranny. And right now we're facing tyrannical forces, tyrannical forces that wish to enslave us and take our speech, something that's our God-given right. You're not taking it, not without a fight. So people are, and what does that fight consume? I'm not calling for people to commit violence. I never have. What I'm saying is we will use our platform. We will awaken people and whatever move they make next, whether it's been my imprisonment, you see, putting people in

in prison for 30 months for something on Facebook. You're actually doing our job, our cause to awaken people. You're helping with it. So each time they try to crush it, you're actually creating more people and they think that they can scare people into silence. And as I said, I stood in Trafalgar Square and said to the establishment, what you're wits in now is the British spirit. Do you see what they've done since that day is try to break that British spirit. I don't think they'll be successful.

And the reason they need to censor this video you're watching now, they need to censor it because it has the ability to awaken more people. It has the ability to inspire more people. And they know that. They know that, which is why they must have total control. You're going to go back to the UK, you said, if I got this right, near the end of October to face the music. That's the plan. And in the meantime, I presume your strategy so far has been

certainly not to involve yourself in the demonstrations and so forth that have been occurring in the UK over the last few weeks, except you also said that you were correcting certain misapprehensions about what's been said about you and also the information that's been spread around. So your plan is to

stay out of the, to let the events unfold as they will, but that you're going to go back to the UK and face the music. That's the plan? My plan is my documentary is currently on 44 million views. By the time they get me in jail, it'll be on 100 million. So it's

By all means, send me to jail. You'll put more eyes on that film than I could ever dream of. People need to realise the weaponisation of the court system against the people. It's not right. It's not right. And people need to know what they're doing and how they're silencing dissident voices across the West. They need to understand it. If we're going to stop it, people need to understand it. If Donald Trump gets elected, he needs to break this.

Okay, the weaponisation of the courts, the unfair judiciary. Do you know, watch what I say when I get into court before the judge. Have you watched the film, Your Honour? If you have watched the film and I'm still sat here facing prosecution, you're corrupt as well. Because that film categorically proves all I've done was report the truth. In what sane, freedom-loving world are we standing in where someone faces two years for reporting the truth? Do we believe in the journalism or not? Do we believe in freedom of the press or not? The problem is so many journalists don't believe in it. They believe...

believe in activism. They're activists, not journalists. They're total activists. So my intention is on the 28th and 29th of October to put the British judiciary on trial in the world's eyes. Now, so long as they don't kill Elon Musk between now and then, that's my intention.

because everyone on X through my account will be able to witness and watch the truth be told. That's my plans, Jordan. That's not something I'm looking forward to. I had two weeks booked my children because I knew what was coming. After three days, they found me and my children. They doxed them and put them in danger. They purposely done that. So I had that time. That was my time with my loved ones because I know what's coming for me. And they broke that. They broke that. So

I'm not doing this because I want to do this. I don't want to do this. I'd much rather just be enjoying my time with my children. But I'm not prepared for my children to become enslaved. I'm not prepared for their freedom of speech to be taken. I'm not prepared for them to be totally controlled by a manipulated media. They want total control of the narrative. The centering of your YouTube channel is to control the narrative. Nothing more. They're not competent.

I can't pick fault with anything I've said. I've always said, highlight it. They say you've gone against guidelines. Well, show us what guidelines I've gone against. How come you can't show us? This is total and utter control. We've become slaves and allow censorship through big tech, through all the corporations, or we fight it. I'm going to play my part in fighting it. Tam, do you want to bring this to a close? Make some comments? Ask Tommy some questions? Well, you inspired me. You're inspiring us.

And our countries and our values are worth fighting for. And it's time for people, I think, it's time for people to see the next right thing to do and then to do it, not to turn away. Not to turn away and not to think it's someone else's fight. Because, I mean, if it's your fight, then it's my fight. If it's your fight, then it's my fight.

My sons fight. It's my daughters' fight because they have children. And we're fighting for our kids. We're fighting for our grandchildren to be able to have a place that they can call home like we have had a place to call home. You know, I don't really have any questions. I think Tommy ended it on a very good note. I think that it's his bravery and his conviction. That's what we need. We need to...

look at ourselves and to see what it is that is calling us to do and to take one step in that direction and see where it takes us. And if that's a scary place, and it's going to be a scary place because we're in an inflection point, are you going to stay with the matrix or are you going to tell the truth and free us from this tyranny?

Well, can I, Jordan, thank you, Tammy. Do you know what? Thank you both for you because you didn't have to give me, you didn't have to sit down with me ever and sit and talk to me. With the way they've made me toxic, I understand probably the fears that would have come with it. You've done it as supporters of free speech. I'm very grateful for that. I'm sure the British public are grateful as well because many British public who feel silenced and censored see me talking on their behalf, which is why they feel...

a connection with me, a very passionate connection with me. What would you, Jordan, do you know the censored one now that can't be shared and can't be commented on? Would you put that on X?

Would you try and- Yes, yes, we're planning to do that right now. We're planning to do that. I think we're doing that today, Tommy. I think we're doing that today. Are you? So you're going to put the entirety on X? Because as they censor and take the comments, X is now the home of free speech. It's the only place that they cannot control the discussion, which means they don't control the narrative. I've said time and time again, Elon Musk has as well, is that

Mainstream media and the controlled mainstream media is the cancer and citizen journalism, i.e. any show willing to have debate and discussion, that's the cure. More discussion, more free speech. I'll sit down and debate anyone on my issues. And that doesn't mean I'm perfect or right about everything.

but they should not be censoring or controlling what you, the public, hear. They want to silence me to control you. They want to silence this. They don't want the comments or being able to share this discussion because they want to control how you think. You're the target. We're in their way. You are the target. Well, I do think, I mean, I do think, like, if I've had trouble with YouTube, in many ways they've left me alone, but they've taken down three of my discussions in the past and

focusing most particularly on the issue of the butchery of children by the sadistic, greedy, ideologically captured medical elite, which is an absolutely appalling scandal in every possible manner. And so they took those down, which I find absolutely reprehensible. And then they have been gerrymandering our discussion and playing tricks on it, with it,

And I think if the powers that be, so to speak, at Google can gerrymander my discussions, which

I'm trying to do in as good a faith as I can possibly manage, then what the hell chance does the typical person have to have their perspective noted and expressed? And I'm looking at what's happening in the UK with these, as you call it, show trials, which are taking place with amazing rapidity, given the general congested nature of the courts in an extraordinarily public manner. And I can't help but conclude that that's being done to intimidate

And all of the worst fears I had about Keir Starmer have come true. He's a totalitarian, utopian, narcissistic leftist, and that's been on full display in the last month. And so it's a hell of a thing to see, and this is absolutely no fun for anyone. And, you know, I can commiserate, at least to some degree, with what you've been through. And I guess we're going to see what unfolds. Maybe Tommy will talk again.

After October, after you go back to the UK. That's probably the next logical thing to do. I'll be in jail, Barton.

I'll be in jail. Yeah, well, I guess we'll see about that, won't we? Yeah, well, maybe, maybe, maybe, maybe that's what I'll do. John, if there was any chance that Elon Musk watched this film, Elon, please share the film, Silenced. I know it's a long film and I know you're a busy man, but if he could get to watch that film and share it before I go prison, it may well be the thing that saves me. Because once the world sees it, the world's politicians, the world's leaders, which Elon Musk sharing it would have the ability to do,

then it'd be more difficult. The more views on that film, the more difficult it is to lock me up. That's what I think. So I'm grateful for your time, everyone. And if I come across, you know what, I'm stressed now thinking I've come across as aggressive or come across as, I am passionate about what I believe in. I'm passionate. It's my life that I feel in danger here. The effect on my family. I've watched it all the last two weeks. The problems from my mum, my dad, the problems from my children, all coming from what? Because we tell the truth.

truth because we told the truth and there's no truth in what they're saying. So again, they don't back it up, but I'm grateful for the time you've given me again. I'm grateful for the opportunity to tell my story. Yes, absolutely. Absolutely. And thank you for talking to us, um, and taking the risk that goes along with it. And, uh,

We appreciate that. Terrifying though it is. And I guess we're going to talk for another 20 minutes on the Daily Wire side. And I'll take three minutes after this relatively stressful conversation. In terms of how you displayed yourself today, look, Tommy, I think that being nice is an overrated virtue. I don't think it's a virtue at all when it's indiscriminate. And the fact that you have enough spine to...

stand up, especially against those bloody grooming gangs, which was the worst scandal I think I've ever seen in my lifetime, bar none. The fact that you were willing to put yourself in the front line with regards to those grooming gangs, that, that, uh,

bestows a fair bit of credit on you in my estimation because that is so scandalous and so brutal and so dark and so malevolent and so widespread that it's no bloody wonder people don't want to look at it and that it's easier for them to write you off as a right-wing provocateur because the alternative is so bloody gruesome and horrible that I can see why people don't want to face it.

Who wants to face that? And it's their failures. Well, that's that bloody cowardice that Tammy talked about that's pervasive in the West. And it is a consequence of the collapse of our fundamental values and our spineless weakness in the face of any assault on our core identity and our culture. So, oh well, we'll watch how it plays out over the next month. And so...

Everybody watching and listening on YouTube, assuming that you get to do that, well, thank you very much for your time and attention. And, you know, we'll stay on top of this as much as we possibly can and bring you the closest approximation to the truth that we can possibly manage. And thanks again, Tommy and Tammy, for spending the time and the effort to do this.

If you guys who are watching and listening want to join us on the Daily Wire side, we'll continue this conversation for another 20 or 25 minutes. And so thanks again, Tommy. Good to see you both. Thank you. Thank you very much.