56: The Superman Who Was Murdered | Red Thread
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What's up everyone, Zay here. I'm the audio and video editor for Red Thread. Jackson is currently away at the F1 so I guess it's my job to give you guys a little preamble for this episode. But basically, I just wanted to apologize in advance. Kira's mic is like super echoey. Obviously not ideal, we couldn't do anything about it. But she doesn't talk too much during the episode so hopefully you guys can just kind of...

forgive us this week. Usually we want to give you guys the best quality for episodes that we can, and this one is definitely not up to scratch, just through Kira's mic. I mean, it's a great episode regardless. So with that being said, apologies once again, and hope you enjoy the episode. It was nice talking to you guys. Peace.

In 1950s Hollywood, George Reeves, best known as Television's Superman, met an untimely end in a lonely bedroom at his Benedict Canyon home. Ruled a suicide by detectives, the evidence paints a murkier picture. A gunshot wound to the hand, a deadly wound to the head,

dinner party downstairs and unanswered questions weave a hollywood murder mystery decades in the making this isn't the next knives out though this is the red thread and this week i've i've brought together the justice league once again i've got uh friendly geordies back back in the mix uh this time as well as my fiancee and writer of the documents

slash researcher Kira. So you're both here. Who wants to say hello first? I'm going to say it's probably going to be Jordan. You do it, Kira. Okay. Oh, okay. Well, hello, everybody. Now that's out of the way, it's your turn. Yes. Hello. Let's go around the circle and introduce ourselves. No introductions necessary. Now that we're all acquainted. Yeah. No introductions necessary here. It's the red thread. We're going to be talking about George Reeves.

Kira and I have a flight to catch in about three hours, so this is basically Mission Impossible Red Thread mode. We're going to have to finish this before then. It's just the way scheduling worked out this week. Unfortunately, we had to move the day forward. Isaiah wasn't unable to make the schedule, so that's why Jordan said... Jordan, you are basically like an...

In all cases of emergency, like break this glass. That's you. You're behind the glass. Yeah, I'm the weekend sunrise guy. For Americans, that's a talk show over here. No one watches anymore, right? Ever since... What's his name? Koshi left? Was it Koshi? No, of course. Yeah, that went through the telly. It was very bad scheduling after that. They should have got the weekend sunrise guy to do it. My opinion anyway. Yeah.

Yeah. But anyway, big thank you for you showing up yet again. I literally called you, well, messaged you 10 hours ago. And you're in Adelaide at the moment. So you're touring as well on your Alien Hunter show. Get tickets now while you still can. But yeah, you're doing your tour. So you're at, you know, in a hotel room basically right now shooting this. So really do appreciate it.

I'm sure the audience does too, so that we still get an episode. I'm sure they will as well, because I'm staying in the Mario suite. What? I don't know. My booking manager, purely because it was a gag, just got me the most autistic Airbnb on earth. It's just filled with Nintendo. No way. I'm sitting in the back. You don't know this yet, but look, I'll just show everyone. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Use the camera. This is just one of the rooms. Oh, no, I've got it on the face thing, but...

All right. Actually, I can sort of see some of it. But anyway, the point is, it's just Mario everywhere. It's decorated like a Nintendo game. Yes. Yes. Everywhere. How weird did you feel checking into that hotel? Huh? How weird did you feel checking into that hotel? Yes, I'll take the Mario room, please. I was into it for the gag. And then I walked in and like they committed too much to the bit that I got freaked out.

It's not a bit for them. They genuinely like Mario. Yeah, it's not a bit. That's weird. We've stayed at Disneyland hotels before, Kira and I, and it is always a bit uncomfortable first walking into those rooms. And it's like, you're a couple that's kidless, basically. You don't have any kids. So you're walking into a room that's built to be like a Disney IP or whatever.

Oh, right. Okay. It's always a bit uncomfortable for me. I don't know how. Yeah, it doesn't feel right, does it? It really doesn't. And I'm one down from you guys because at least you're a couple, but I'm here with like a 35-year-old fat Croatian man. He's just some guy I know. Yeah. Yeah. Well, that's fun in and of itself. Okay. So...

To really breeze through this, though, because we've got to get started, George Reeves, this is a murder mystery, like I said before. This is a guy, he played television Superman, so basically one of the first portrayals of Superman, I think. I think there was one before him, but he was basically up there as one of the first, the very first Superman. And he essentially was found dead in his Hollywood home through gunshot wound to the head. It was ruled a suicide.

by officials, but many people, many people, including maybe even your good friend Jackson here, perhaps thinks that there was something more sinister afoot on that night in the 1950s in his home. Have you heard of this one, Jordan?

No. Not at all. So the conspiracy theory here is that there was murder most foul on a 50s action hero. When I think of action movie, I think of Tom Cruise doing his own stunts. I feel like this guy, George Reeves, was probably just in front of a green screen and he looked like Superman. And then they just fit him into things. I don't think he was doing stunts. Oh, okay. But maybe. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Did nothing. No.

fake superman not my superman hashtag not my superman and someone wanted to kill him well yeah i don't think it before we get too far into it i don't think it was like lex luther or any other super villain that eventually got him i think it was probably a jilted lover is is what my gut feeling is uh so we're gonna start here by basically uh talking about george reeves himself so that we kind of understand the man behind the murder mystery so

So George Reeves was born George Kiefer Brewer on January 5th, 1914 in Woolstock? Or maybe that should be Woodstock. Is it Woodstock or Woolstock here? Is Woodstock a city? Is that a town in Iowa? Or is that a festival? No, it's definitely Woodstock. It is Woodstock? Woolstock. Oh, it is Woolstock. Okay, that's the fake one. That's not the real place. Is Woodstock a festival or is it a city, Jordan?

I know it's a festival, but hang on. Could it be set in a city called Woodstock? Because then that would make sense. Hang on. This is the true Red Thread mystery. Yeah.

I know it's a festival, I know that, but I'm wondering if it's set in a city called Woodstock. This doesn't matter. George Kiefer Brewer has nothing to do with Woodstock. Not long after his birth, George's parents, Helen Leisha and Donald Carl Brewer, separated, prompting George and his mother to move around before settling in California.

I feel like that's a story that is universal in America during those times. Like a family separates and then part of the family moves to California or everyone was moving to California. California was definitely where shit was popping off at the time. In 1920, Helen met a man named Frank Bessalot. They married and were together for over 15 years with Frank eventually adopting George.

They divorced when George was away visiting family and when he returned, instead of telling him the truth, Helen told him that Frank had died of suicide. That is... Whoa, that's way worse. Yeah. Why would you not just tell him that he left? I don't know. He's dead permanently. It wasn't that shameful, was it? Yeah, I guess. She was that afraid. She was that fearful of the shame of being separated again and she didn't want to be the bad guy, maybe.

Yeah, 15, you're like very conscious of what suicide is. Yeah, I mean, surely, surely you could just say, like sit him down and have an honest to heart conversation telling him where, because yeah, she was with him for over 15 years. So this guy would have been basically like a genuine dad to George Reeves. So to just say he's gone up, he's gone out to the farm upstate, he's left us instead of saying, like telling him the truth.

That's really fucked up. Yeah, why don't you even just say that? I don't know. You don't even have to say that they're divorced or anything. You could just say he lost his mind and left. Suicide is very dark. It is, but you should still tell me. Surely you could have come up with a lighter lie. George did not know for many years that Frank was still alive, not passing away until 1944.

Jesus. So, Kira, did Frank just not make an effort to reconnect with George Reeves before his death? I'm guessing not. Maybe Helen was like, George doesn't want to know you. Maybe she tricked him into thinking that he had committed suicide as well. He was like wandering around as a ghost. Wasn't sure.

George did not know that Frank wasn't his father as well as he and his mother had left Iowa when George was a baby. He only found out that Frank wasn't his father later in life. George told the New York Sun in 1943 that he had come across a photo of a man and asked who it was and without thinking his mum Helen replied, oh, that's your father. Wow. This bitch. This person's a monster. The lies on lies.

Imagine that. Imagine just flipping through some old family photos and being like, who's this guy in this random photo? And finding out that's your dad. And the guy that you thought was your dad, who you believe had committed suicide, wasn't your dad. He's dead. That's crazy, dude. That's like lifelong trauma. Why'd she do all of this? You wouldn't be able to trust anyone past that point once you found out your mum lied about that. It's a very...

A lot of it, I've got to say, I really, obviously we don't know the context. We know two dot points, but it does seem very unnecessary. Yeah. Was she trying to protect her own like shame or was she trying to like in a weird way, in a weird parent way, trying to protect George of any kind of trauma? Look, I know that divorce back then must have been a huge stigma. That's definitely part of this.

It's just, look, as I was saying before... Wait, wasn't suicide also a pretty shameful thing at the time? Suicide would have also been kind of... Surely, right? Yeah, and still she... Surely! I guess since that doesn't have to do with her necessarily, she could just kind of lay the blame. Yeah, shame on Frank for that. Yeah, Frank, it's all Frank's fault.

Yeah, I mean, my parents kind of, or at least my mom kind of does that, or did do that growing up, where she would try to defend me against the truth almost, and I remember it being very fucking annoying and me hating it because I hated being treated like someone who couldn't handle the truth, basically. She wouldn't tell me about people in the family having illnesses and things like that, severe illnesses, in order to defend my feelings or whatever, to make

To make sure that... To defend your feelings. Yeah, I wasn't sad. So, well, what did they say when they came over in a wheelchair? Yeah, well, that's what I was going to say. Like, I always made the argument to her when I eventually did find out. I was like, shouldn't I have found out ages ago instead of, like, when they're actually on their deathbed and now I have to, like, you know, come to terms with that instead of, you know, waiting forever? Yeah.

thinking, you know, living in delusional land, basically not knowing. I don't know, but I guess it's different. You actually do empathize quite a lot with George here.

I think being a parent is hard. I'll put it that way. I think maybe it all gets mixed up and you don't know what is the right answer. I know what I would prefer. If I was George, I would obviously prefer to be told the truth. And if I was Jackson, which I am, I would prefer to have been told the truth growing up about things like that. But I also, yeah, I mean, being a parent is hard. I think this is an extreme though, right? Like she literally did not tell him about his gender.

genuine father and then, you know, made him believe that his father, his fake father, had committed suicide. That's pretty extreme. That was unnecessary. Yeah, this one is like quite, you have to stop and stare. It's that, I've never really heard of somebody going that far. Mm-mm.

So that's quite an interesting beginning to this man's life. Yeah. So I can see why this guy would have had a traumatic upbringing if he was constantly lied to about like things pertaining to his birth father constantly.

So George himself was a talented boxer in high school, but he was turning into a handsome young man as well. And his mother apparently remarked often that his face was too pretty to keep boxing. So he turned instead to studying drama and enrolled in a Pasadena playhouse. He was said to have a great memory, making learning lines and cues easy for him. That's something you and him have in common now, right? Because you went to drama school. Oh, yes. I was a very talented boxer. And...

Too handsome for it. You know what? I could see you. I could absolutely see you being a very handsome and efficient boxer. I think you'd go to the ring with no fears. Yeah, I think you'd have no fears going in there. I think you'd be able to swing wildly. I'd have no fears, but I'd also have no coordination. Yeah, well, I don't think you'd win often, but I think you'd win.

I think you'd be good at it in terms of like being able to get in there. That's more than I'd be able to do. Yeah, okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Courageous Geordies. It was here at this Pasadena playhouse that he met his first wife of 10 years, Eleonora Needles, a lady who had did it in her blood. And she was a descendant of John Robinson. I don't know who that is, Kira. Is that a famous actor?

He founded the John Robinson Circus. But when I was Googling it, I was actually met with John Robinson the murderer. So not him, it's the guy who founded a circus. Well, that would have been cooler, though, if he was the murderer, if he was the serial killer who eventually was executed in 2003, I'm finding out right now, for three murders in Kansas.

No relation to that. Instead, she was related to a clown, it sounds like, in a circus, so that's pretty cool as well. I respect that. That is pretty cool, isn't it? Clowns get a bad rep. I think clowns nowadays are kind of seen as like, it's kind of circled back to being like, what do you call them, like

to make fun of and laugh at, seen as second-class citizens, basically. But back then, I think they were royalty. They were really... Up until John Wayne Gacy. Why do you think that? Well, because everyone wanted to go to the circus back then. No one wants to go to the circus now. Yeah, I know. Who wants to go to the circus? I've always thought about that. How is that still going? I don't think it is. I think only clowns go there. I think it's just clown holiday camp. Okay. Yeah.

I don't know anyone who goes to a circus. And I do see circuses set up shop in our local area every now and then as well. They come through town sometimes. Your place does sound like a place where you would have the, like, it's the Lehman Brothers, one weekend only. Yeah. If you're going to set up shop.

Yeah, I go down to the corner market every weekend to see the little local flea show where they have little fleas doing tricks in the cardboard boxes. Ah, well, if we're including flea shows, yes, I do want to see one of those. Flea shows are way cooler and way more impressive than just clowns doing shit.

That is really impressive. I, like, yeah. I'd be more into, like, circuses if they actually did the more cartoonish aspects of clownery. Like, if they put the clowns in those giant cannons and shot them out of the rooftop and stuff. But I've never once seen that happen. Don't think it happens. Fake media. I don't...

Does that? Oh, my God. You might actually be right. Maybe that's never happened in the history of circuses. Well, probably not. I'm going to assume that that's not even possible physically to be shot out of a cannon like that. Well, then why is that such a trope? I feel really short change. I feel like I have seen that in my life. But now that I look back at it, I've only ever seen it in cartoons. Yeah, it's only cartoons. It's a cartoon thing.

Anyway. Yeah, that's outrageous. Circuses do suck, don't they? Yeah, I don't... You know what circuses are? This is what they really... This is what they are in a nutshell, really. Just being cruel to a bear. That's what I was going to say. That's why I never liked them because I always associated them with animal cruelty. No, you're right. Yeah, they are. There's animals in cages. They all come out to do tricks and stuff and then they get put back in the cages. It's not a very nice... They're back in the cage and you go...

Yeah. Plus there's no kind of normalcy for them because they're traveling around the country all the time.

Yeah, I think it's cruel. Nah, it's crap. I think it is illegal in Australia, actually, to have animals in your circuses now. I think they've made that rule. Which, actually, now that I think about it, probably is the reason you don't see circuses anymore, because that's all they've got. That's really all they have, is just spanking an elephant around a circle. Yeah, that's the only reason people are going to go see the circus. No one's going to go see a clown at a circus. That's not a thing anymore.

I suppose this circus do salate, but again, you can only watch a Chinese man blow a very large bubble so many times. I've never been. Is that all that is? You've just boiled down that entire thing. No, no. Okay, there's more to it. All right. No, that's all Jordan's interested in. He went there for the Chinese man blowing the bubbles. That is, yes, I was the first time I saw it, yes. Okay.

Okay, so George Reeves and Eleanor Needles were married from 1940 to 1950, apparently splitting during a small period of time due to George losing some money with bad investments. And in that period of time where they did split up, Eleanor instead met a lawyer who had a lot more money in the bank. He was loaded from all that lawyer business. And so she left him for that rich lawyer.

That sucks. That's going to suck. I've got nothing funny to say that. That just sucks. Sorry, George. That's rough. Yeah, that would suck. But at the same time, what are the bad investments? I want to know that. He invested in a lot of circuses when they were on their downturn. Yeah, I can tell you they can only go up. Yeah.

But it wasn't all bad. He may have found out that his dad wasn't his real dad and that his fake dad had not committed suicide. And also his wife left him after 10 years to be with a very rich lawyer. But it was looking up for George because he had his minor breakthrough, which came with a role in the blockbuster Gone With The Wind starring Clark Gable in 1939, which is actually before he was divorced. So it's not thrown out of context.

chronology here a little bit so in 1939 he you know he had that success playing the minor role of stewart tarleton he returned back to the pasadena playhouse and took some lead roles in theater plays but his foot was in the door for hollywood movies he then signed a contract with warner brothers and officially changed his name to george reeves from george besolo uh obviously after his adopted father where did the reeves come from was that his actual dad's last name kira

Or did he just choose that name because it sounded cool? What was his actual dad? Maybe, yeah, I feel like it was probably a stage name. Just something cool and impactful. I'm just quickly googling it. Just coming up with where he was born. Okay, so we don't know his real dad's name? Oh no, his real dad's name up above is Brewer. Brewer.

Oh, okay. So it's definitely not Reeves. So Reeves would be a stage name then. He landed a starring role in... Yeah, it's way better than Brewer. Oh, absolutely. And way better than Bessalot as well. So he had a good... Yeah. Is Jordan your real name or is that your stage name? No, my stage name isn't Jordan. What's your... You'd have to pick something else, wouldn't you? Like... Star or something. I would go with like Chadwick. God, that was lazy. Huh, Chadwick?

seriously if i was like i would change my name to like chadwick or something yeah something to do with chad chadwick's not bad that week's pretty good it's pretty damn good and it's simultaneously meanie and 21st century with an old school twinge i think i'd go chadwick charmingston or something

Well, that's stupid. What, why? That last name is such a dumb...

Chadwick Charmington. It sounds like a fake name. Isn't the whole point of these names to kind of just give your name kind of a zhuzh? Oh, yeah, like Lady Gaga. You've just turned it into a joke. It's not a joke. Charmington. It's such a joke. Charmington. You're getting charming in there, so you're giving the connotation of being a charming individual, as well as the British-sounding aspect of it, because...

Hollywood loves British people. So it all fits together. Okay. I can imagine Americans being so easily duped that they think Chadwick Charmington is a serious name from British aristocracy, but like you're not fooling anyone in Australia. It's just such a fake name. It's like, it's something you put down as a joke in the census.

I'd vote for him. He landed a starring role in So Proudly We Hail. We're talking about George Reeves here, not Chadwick Charmington anymore. But Chadwick Charmington would also land this role, to be sure. Easily. But George Reeves landed the starring role in So Proudly We Hail in 1943 at age 29 and could see a successful acting career in front of him. But then...

What happened in the 1930s and 40s that everyone knows about? Yes, of course, World War II. He was drafted into the U.S. Army Air Forces, but he kind of got a cushy job. A thing that I didn't even know existed. I don't understand why he got drafted into this either, but he got drafted into the U.S. Army Air Forces Broadway show, Winged Victory. What? I know.

And then transferred to the USAASF, so the US Army Air Forces, first motion picture unit where he made training films. So if you're going to get drafted... Motion picture unit. Yeah. This sounds fake. This sounds like a Charmington situation, in my opinion. But apparently it's real. And also Broadway...

Yeah, the US Army was just on Broadway. Huh? The US Army was just on Broadway? It just... Those worlds should have never collided, should they? That is so strange, and...

Like, yes, if I was in that situation and I was drafted, like literally told that I had to serve, you bet your ass I'm praying that I'm getting on that Broadway show instead of turn over to like D-Day and stuff like that. But it's kind of wild that that's even a possibility that people are being shipped off to their deaths, basically. And meanwhile, some people are getting lucky enough to just make some training films. What the hell happened there?

What is this? Purely because he was in Gone with the Wind? I guess, yeah. Is it a situation where you're drafted and then they look at your skills and stuff and then they assign you to something that makes sense for your skill set? How do you get that lucky break? I know. How? That's luckier than starring in Gone with the Wind, honestly. So much better. Yeah.

I'm hoping that eventually when World War 3 breaks out, there's like a US podcasting division or something and then I should be safe. Hopefully. We can only pray.

Yeah, but when he returned after the war from his long dangerous stint in the first motion picture unit, production studios in Hollywood had slowed or closed and George struggled to regain his footing in the entertainment industry. After a few minor roles on low-budget projects, he went to live television programs and radio and even supplemented his depleted income by taking the occasional job digging cesspools. Which are just shit bits, right? Cesspools? They're just like...

God, I wish the war was back on for this guy. Yeah. How much better is it being in the armed air forces Broadway than, yeah, digging sewerage? Latrines, basically. Like, actually. He's supposed to be, yeah, out of the army. Yeah, he's doing more wartime things outside of wartime.

He got very unlucky there. I bet he was wishing for World War III. Ultimately, this time period wasn't super successful as he was a struggling actor. And of course, his wife left him for a successful and handsome lawyer. Handsome wasn't in the document, but I'm just assuming he was also very handsome. Yeah, I mean, so his early life, not great, I'll be honest. Betrayed by a lot of women.

uh betrayed by a lot of people he wasn't finding massive success in the industry that he wanted to like obviously he had some minor success but at the same time he was obviously not wealthy or anything because he was doing menial or you know uh bottom of the barrel jobs a lot of the time not to disrespect any cesspool diggers out there but it definitely wasn't hollywood work that he wanted he was doing more traditional jobs at that point um but then

Jordan, it happened. The actual breakthrough. So Superman at the time was making its way over to television after the adventures of Superman that ran on the radio. This radio series was sponsored by Kellogg's and aired from 1940 to 1951. And it can't be overstated just how successful this radio series really was.

That's another weird, like, old-timey thing is people listening to the radio for, like, serials and things like that. You know, as in, like, dramas. Can't imagine doing that in the modern era. Yeah, there's no such thing as a radio drama anymore. Actually, what am I doing? I'm fucking stupid, people. Podcasts, it's the same thing. What am I? It's my literal job. I mean, it is technically the same thing. Yeah, but isn't every podcast ever made just this?

Pretty much people discussing murder mysteries. No one sits around anymore and is just like, yeah, I'm going to bring the adventures of Eragorn to life. No one does that anymore. They'll get sued, first of all, if they try to do that. But I'm sure... Oh, right. Yeah, fair enough. I'm absolutely sure that there is scripted podcasts out there where they tell a story, basically.

All right, well, let me know if there's a good one in the comments. I will inspect this further because I do like the idea of radio dramas existing. Honestly, I think the best form of entertainment there is, is a guy... Apart from circus. Huh? Apart from circus. Oh, well, obviously, yes. Nothing will ever beat a Russian man whipping monkeys, obviously. But after that...

Your second best thing, I think, is a guy that is really into a book that they're reading and they're putting on all the voices and they're chucking in sound effects. And they like, you know, they take it really seriously. I'm all for that entertainment. Like, don't you reckon the vast majority of audio books that you read, it would be better if you just read the book.

You always think you're saving time, but you just lose attention because the guy sucks. Would it be better than if they're doing the noises and stuff and they're really having fun with it? Is that what you want from your audiobooks? Yeah, that's what I want. I don't know, if it's Game of Thrones and someone's on a horse, you get the two coconuts and clap them together. That's what I want. The voice actor doing the nays and the whinnies as well.

Yeah, no, no, that's what I'm saying. Take it seriously. Take it seriously by doing the opposite of taking it seriously. Playing with coconuts. It's very dumb, isn't it? I respect that, yeah. That's...

that's cool over 200 actors were considered for the role but ultimately they knew as soon as george walked into the room that he was superman it was the jaw his jaw inviting and reassuring as a front porch which is like the most 1950s america's sentence that i've ever heard but also also i'm so sick of hearing this from uh like casting directors who say i knew it was him as soon as he walked in through the front door did you because you

Because your job is kind of to determine that after the fact. You're a bad casting director if you're just looking at someone when they walk in and going, that's our man. Lazy. Yeah. And also not true. Probably not true. Probably not true. Because they all say it. It's just something that you say in a documentary when there's like a mixing board behind you. Yes, exactly. You have to say it. Yeah, because it makes you look good. It also makes them look good as well. Like George looked good. Like he was made for the role. Yeah, true. The George was offered the role, but he mulled it over, unsure if he should take it.

because he saw it as a bottom-of-the-barrel sort of role and thought that not many people would watch it. But, of course, he was digging latrines at the time, so he obviously needed the money, so he ended up taking it. Why would you even consider that? It's so stupid. Especially because on radio, it's going for 11 years. Yeah, it's obviously successful. How is this going to be unsuccessful? It's obviously... He was signing on for the post-radio thing, like they were transitioning it to...

to a movie and then an animated series so he was going to be the actor for that um but yeah i'm not sorry not an animated series just a tv series um so yeah he wasn't even he wasn't even auditioning for the radio part of it so this was like the next step of an already successful franchise at this point that had been running for 11 years why would you think that was bottom of the barrel just because it's superman

That's really strange. It's also really strange that radio back then was more prestigious than television. I do remember people talking about that, that TV was as low as it gets. Well, probably because TV was...

Less established on radio, maybe? Yeah, so... Sorry, just to chime in. George really wanted movies, like, you know, top class A-list movies. That's where he saw his career going. He sort of saw television as not important or not... Not like a successful career, but not really the way he wanted to go. So his issue was less with Superman and more with just the medium of television? I think so. Right, okay.

So it began, the whole relationship or the whole project began a little rocky with the pre-series movie, and I can't believe this is a real movie title, but here it is, Superman and the Mole Men. Yeah, that's the movie title. It wasn't as successful as they wanted it to be. Shocking. Superman and the Mole Men wasn't putting butts in seats. Interesting. Yeah.

Kellogg's, though, the cereal company, swooped in once more to save the day and sponsored the TV show to ensure that it started airing and it became a pretty substantial success once they got rid of the whole mole men factor of it. So, man, George's passion lied further than a Superman TV show. He still wanted to be in major motion pictures.

There was an urban legend that he was actually cast in a movie called From Here to Eternity, but was cut because the audience in a sneak preview was so distracted by Superman being in the film. God, that's got to suck, actually. Never mind. Being typecast like that. It does happen, yeah.

I feel like it happens less nowadays because the celebrities themselves have become such a, you know, draw to putting people in seats that they act like these studio executives actually want you to notice that, you know, Dwayne, the rock Johnson is in this movie. They don't want you to see the character anymore. They want you to see the actor because there's that parasocial. Oh yeah. True. Yeah. That's very silly that they didn't even think of that from a commercial perspective, but as an audience member, that's all I ever say. Anytime I've ever seen, um,

I don't even know his name. Like George Costanza from Seinfeld. Anytime I've ever seen him in anything else, it's just like, just, just do the George thing again. You know, like that's, that's all you want from him for the rest of his life. There's definitely actors like that for me. Uh, like whenever, well, here's, here's a good example. The most recent Joker film, all I could see was Lady Gaga. Like it was very obvious. Yeah.

And that to me, as someone who enjoys movies, it's one of the worst feelings where I can't just stop seeing the actor.

I know people had a big problem with the new Dune movie because of... What's her name? Zendaya? Yeah, Zendaya. Everyone was complaining that she was miscast and all they could see was Zendaya. Or Zendaya, however you pronounce it. And yeah, it is a frustrating feeling. But yeah, it's going to suck for George Reeves here. He was born too early because that is actually... He would have had a more successful career if he was in the early 2000s or whatever. And he was able to capitalize on that opportunity

kind of parasocial element. Yeah. The Adventures of Superman went on for six seasons. So this is the TV series that he was a part of. Went on for six seasons, airing 104 episodes. Now we get to the important part, George Reeves' death. So this is the official story. This is what they want you to believe. The night of his death had gone out with Leonel Lemons. That has to be another fake name. No.

She was hanging out with Chadwick Charmington on the night. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. All the genuine human beings of Hollywood. All right, Kira, do you know if it was a real name or not? Seems like it's a real name. Wow. No way. She sounds like a character from the board game Clue. Doesn't it? Yeah. That is so true. That's a Cluedo character. It absolutely is.

How perfect is this? It's about a murder. For a few hours to have a drink before returning home at around 11pm, George, tired, wanted to head straight to bed, but there were others present in the house. It's Cluedo! It is. It's Cluedo. It's straight up Miz. It's a murder mystery party with a woman named Miss Lemon.

The night arrived shortly after the couple had turned and the events into an unwanted and impromptu casual party. Apart from Leonor, there were three other people. Robert Condon. Oh, my God. This is so uncanny. This is incredible. Maybe the board game was based off of this. This is really interesting now. Who was writing a book and interviewing George at the time and was staying in their guest room. Robert was writing an autobiography about prize fighter Archie Moore

and shared the interest in boxing with George, Carol Van Ronkel. All these fake names. Of course. Van Ronkel. She's a member of the aristocracy, like the nobility of Germany or something. She's also here. Next, Count von Drakensberg is going to walk in as well.

Yeah, I'm really seriously expecting Colonel Mustard to be the next person. Or just the Colonel, just a guy named the Colonel. Colonel Mustard. What? Just a guy named the Colonel or something. The Colonel. Look, as long as he has a monocle, I'm happy.

Who lived in the neighborhood was also there as she was a married woman having an affair with Robert. Oh my god. There isn't really an explanation for why another man named William Bliss was there. No explanation necessary. He was there to complete the picture. Because they need enough suspects. He was invited so that there would be enough goofy names there to make this into a Cluedo game. Ha ha ha ha ha.

Besides him knowing Leodore and him having shown up with Carol, Reeves was upset with having guests at his house bickering with Leodore and yelling for everyone to keep the noise down after he retired for the night at around 1.30am. This poor guy has a long night, comes home, his career is struggling and his house has turned into like an impromptu Cluedo game, basically, with all these strange characters showing up.

Has George had a single day in his life that he's enjoyed? No. This is the saddest Superman that's ever existed. Yeah, it seems like he was the least happy when he was a massive star as Superman. It seems like the worst part of his life. You know what? Maybe suicide isn't such a controversial idea now that I think about it. Now that I'm thinking about it.

According to Leonore, she and others were in the living room when they heard a single gunshot upstairs half an hour later. Will and Bliss had been sent to check on George.

And was the first to see him dead. The police were called at 2.45am. Three bullets from a Luger pistol in total had been fired. The one that killed George was found in the ceiling above. The two others on the floor with one of these going through the floor entirely and into the ceiling of the room below. The gun was found between his feet. There was no sign of anyone else in the room.

And with the evidence they had available to them, the police determined that George had suffered from depression due to his failing career. It's not that bad. He was Superman. Why is it failing? Also, why are the police making those kinds of, they're putting these burns into his documentation? Like, yeah, this guy sucked. His career was dead. That's why he killed himself. Fucking loser. You could just say he committed suicide.

And that's decided to end his own life. The Los Angeles Police Department concluded that George Reeves died of suicide by gunshot wound to the head. You mean to tell me that they came to this scene filled with all these Cluedo characters and they didn't think to investigate a little bit further into this murder mystery? This obvious murder mystery? They just went for the most logical answer?

No, they just paid him out for having a fairly good Hollywood successful career. Yeah. We could have done better. That's what the cops did. They made fun of him and then closed the case. That would be George's luck, though, to be honest. Yeah, so brutal. Still getting paid out from beyond the grave. And now we're paying him out. This poor man.

George Reeves died of suicide. Oh, yeah, there you go. Where are we? He was determined to have died between 1.30 and 2 a.m. in the morning of June 16, 1959. The crime scene was relatively undisturbed. The bed was unmade. Reeves was naked. And a nightstand drawer was open. There was no direct evidence of foul play or a struggle. Okay, so, Kira, when you say naked... Sorry, just real quick. When you say naked, Kira, was he still dressed in his underpants?

I didn't actually see that. Okay, but I think he was in his underpants, so he wasn't completely naked, but I could be wrong. But regardless, he was still in the state of undress, definitely. I don't know why you'd shoot yourself while you're nude. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I suppose it doesn't really matter, does it? Well, no, it does. I don't want to be found dead in that situation. It's very unusual. I think it is unusual across suicides as well.

I've never heard of it. But I've also... Well, I'm very curious. Do police use the phrase foul play? Yes, absolutely. Why else would it be... Do they? Why else would it be in this document? Why else would it have entered into the Lexi... Well, that's what I'm wondering. Did Kira chuck in the phrase foul play to make it even more like the board game? Or is it...

Because foul play, those phrases, murder most foul, foul play. Yeah, it's very theatrical. They're very old school, aren't they? Well, this was the 1950s, so if there ever was a time where the police would say foul play. More old school. More old school? Yeah. Yeah.

It just, it seems like something that people in the 19th century said as a joke. I can't ever imagine anyone seriously using the phrase. I think they still use it. Yeah, I feel like I've heard it in police reports to this day. Like, I think it's just an easy way of... I'm a fan. An easy way of summing up what they're trying to say, basically. So, after doing a little bit of a quick Google, it seems like...

Everywhere says he was naked at the time. It seems uncertain if maybe he was wearing a bathrobe that was open or anything like that. So it can't be 100% sure, but he definitely wasn't really wearing a lot of clothes, which is a bit strange. Yes, people definitely note that as being quite strange. Okay, so George Reeves' private life before his death. This will kind of go into maybe...

some motivations of certain people for offing Superman. So George Reeves kept his private life pretty secretive or private as you know, is in the, is, is in the name. He knew that he was an influential figure to young children and he wanted to make sure he was a good role model. He even quit things like smoking, drinking,

He would attend events and charities as Superman as he knew it would bring joy to others. He would have fake props like guns that would bend in half to show his strength. There's an interesting story of one time when he was approached by a kid with a real gun set on shooting him to see the bullet bounce off of him. This wasn't malicious and George could see that. He managed to convince the child that when the bullet bounced off it may hurt someone else, prompting the boy to hand the gun over. Could you imagine? Jesus Christ.

Oh my God, what a scary situation. It would have been way funnier though if George actually just punched the kid's face in or something like that instead of having this touching story where he convinced him not to shoot him. Yeah, did a full Superman on the kid. Arrested the bad guy. But behind closed doors, he definitely wasn't as clean and squeaky as he wanted to appear. He was having an affair with a married woman

So it wasn't an affair for George, right? It was just an affair for the woman. He wasn't with anyone at the time. Okay. He was having an affair with a married woman named Toni Mannix, also known as Toni Lanier, the wife of Eddie Mannix, the general manager of Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer. MGM Studios, which is an enormous film studio even to this day. Just off the top of my head, James Bond films, massive film.

Tony was eight years older than George and herself, she was quite wealthy, wealthier than George at least, both from her past as a showgirl and from her husband, Eddie Mannix, who was obviously very successful. It seemed that the affair with George was known by Eddie, who was seemingly having his own affairs as well. And Kira, you were telling me that this was kind of like a situation where they both knew they were having affairs and they were kind of cool with it.

Yes, from what I was reading, it was like they both knew they were having affairs and it was like a mutual agreement sort of thing that they were fine with. So they were a power couple. They were a power couple in Hollywood, but they were still just banging other people and they were open about it? We don't know what was going through their minds or their private life, but it seems like they knew it and they were fine with it. It's such a weird dynamic that you always see with like,

off the top of my head and this is fiction I know but it's just off the top of my head like in House of Cards how they were both having like affairs with other people like the president the politicians were having affairs with other people and they both knew about it but they stayed together because they were such a power couple together it really gives me that vibe

Ah, right, okay, yeah. Yeah, such a... Look, it's pretty hard not to have an affair with a woman named Toni Mannix, isn't it? Yeah, I'm surprised you're not having one right now, Jordan, with Toni Mannix. Me neither. Like, if I found a woman called Toni Mannix, I would have an affair with her, easily. It does sound like a porn star name to me. Yeah, at the very least, it's like quite a seductress name. Yeah, seductress probably more so. Kira, you're offended by that?

I'm surprised. Surprised? Why? I don't think it sounds like that. Really? What do you think it sounds like? Why, what do you think it sounds like? Yeah, what's your woman intuition? I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. Okay. Well, you don't think Tony Mannix sounds like anything, do you? Nothing really came up for me, but I don't know. Maybe she's just not poor addicted like us. I don't know.

Fair enough. That's why it's good to have Kira here for that female insight that we probably always miss out on. True. In the comments, who's right, though? I need to know. Yeah. Pawn star name or not pawn star name. Let us know. They stayed together, a not so secret affair for multiple years until George fell for another woman, the socialite Leonore Lemon, who we talked about previously, who he met in New York. He left Tony for Leonore in 1958.

It was a passionate but troubled relationship, their personalities clashing. George was more quiet compared to Leonore, who has also been reported as a gold digger, as she was seen as a party girl with a history of getting kicked out of clubs for fighting, which was, yeah, very, very strange. Known for heavy drinking, and she was linked to wealthy men before Reeves as well, which I don't think is too weird because she was a socialite, right? Isn't that basically what socialites do?

Yeah, pretty much. So the relationship was a whirlwind with the two apparently getting engaged not long after he split with Tony. Sources online say they planned to get married on June 19th, 1959, just three days after his death. I have also seen some conflicting opinions that while Leonore thought they were going to get married, George wasn't going to ask the question. Wait, so they weren't... Oh, brutal. Oh, they were apparently getting engaged. So...

Wait, how does that work? They had talked about getting engaged? Yes, so there are conflicting opinions and information online with Leonore saying they were going to get married and they were going to get married on that date. But then other people say George wasn't interested in marrying her. So is this presented as a potential motive for why Leonore could have been potentially very upset, upset enough with George Reeves to have delivered the killing blow?

Definitely planting some seeds. Okay. Some seeds that will bloom into a beautiful murder flower. Apparently... You know what? Honestly, Kira, really good job on this. This is a very interesting story. There's like a lot of intrigue in this. The old school Hollywood 50s intrigue. You just made Kira's day. Thank you so much.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Usually it's kind of just like, just get this script.

There's so much to this. You're just reading a Days of Our Lives episode. Yeah, it is like a... This should be... Actually, I think it was turned into a movie, right, Kira? Yeah, starring Ben Affleck. So it was eventually turned into a movie. Oh, there you go. But it is like perfect for that, though. It really is like a... Isn't it? The setting of Hollywood is kind of really sets it up.

Doesn't it? So apparently Tony, uh, Tony, this is, we're going back to Tony. So this is Tony. Uh, what was her name? Tony Mannix. Yeah. Apparently Tony Mannix was extremely unhappy with George leaving her in 1958. And she harassed the couple so much that he took actions to get a restraining order against her. The harassment included, including the harassments included incessant phone calls, which contained emotional outbursts, threats, and pleased to get back together. Basically like begging, uh,

Some unsubstantiated accounts claim that she drove by his Benedict Canyon house repeatedly. Do you know, Kira, off the top of your head, if that was in terms of frequency close to when he was murdered? Or did she stop by that point? If you don't know, it's fine. I'm going to assume that she was constantly doing it.

Well, he was murdered in... He was murdered in 1959, right? Yeah, and he left her only the year before. Okay, so even if she had stopped in recent months, let's say, it was still close enough, yeah, fresh enough where it is potentially a motive for her to have done something sinister here. So really, we have...

On two fronts, we have two women who feel like they were scorned by Mr. George Reeves. We have Tony who feels like she was discarded for another woman. She would have, and there's history here of her acting, you know, emotional about that, like calling him up and harassing him. So she definitely has motive there. But we also have his actual girlfriend, Leonore Lemon, who was also, she was also feeling scorned because potentially he reneged on his relationship

promise let's say to you know marry her basically so maybe she was feeling upset about that so there's two women here who are potential you know threats to to george's life what do you think jordan out of those two being the threat to his life yeah i mean it happens doesn't it it definitely happens yeah i mean it's and he's got two of them always seemed so psycho to me that

Someone has an affair and you murder them. Like, does the punishment fit the crime? No, no. I reckon it's just way too disproportionate. You can say that about a lot of things. Murder, like emotional murder, where people are murdered just for, you know, arguments or things like that. I don't think there's any justification most of the time. Definitely not just affairs.

But you're right that it happens a lot, even obviously today. People are murdered due to... They call it crimes of passion, right? Where there's an emotional argument between two people due to an affair, cheating, or just even shit like financials and things like that. And then someone will do something stupid and in the heat of the moment will kill the other person, whether accidentally or on purpose. It happens. It absolutely still happens. So it's potentially...

And he's got two of them here, two women who feel like, to me, feel like they could have been in that position where they either accidentally or unintentionally killed him due to that motivation. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, Jordan, you go over the suspicious details because I think you'll enjoy some of these. The main theories surrounding George's death besides suicide is obviously murder. Though he was unhappy with his roles, George wasn't broke or in debt, obviously.

There was a 45-minute delay between finding the body and William Bliss calling the police. That is... Okay. Like that thing, I hate that kind of stuff. It's like, it was three hours before... Yeah, but that happens. Are you kidding me? I'm that person. 45 minutes? I'm calling someone immediately upon finding a body, the police? 45 minutes.

I could understand maybe like a five minute shock and then trying to find your phone and picking it up and then calling. But I'd call the police straight away. 45 minutes is far enough into... That's a lengthy amount of time where it becomes suspicious for me. If it was like five, ten minutes, sure, whatever. But there has to be some concerted effort to immediately alert the authorities, in my opinion. Yeah.

They're dead. I suppose, look, now that I think about it, you're right. It is a long time. You were saying three hours. You want to go take a nap? Yeah, three hours. That's way too long. You're right. I'll deal with that tomorrow morning. I'll figure this out in a quarter of a day. The gun had no fingerprints on it, which is odd considering George was naked.

The bullet had entered through George's right temple, which makes the final position of the bullet on the ceiling confusing. It should have ended up on the wall beside him. Unless he was like, what, like his face was parallel with the wall when he was shot? Yeah. Maybe it was, yeah. No, that doesn't work. If it was shot through the right temple, how would it hit the roof? I didn't even think of that. Even when rereading this document last night while I was editing it, that didn't even cross my mind.

Jordan, make it make sense, please. I can't. I don't know anything about guns. Like, that sentence makes no sense to me at all. I don't understand physics. I don't understand it either. Every time they always have these magic bullet theories and say, how could it ricochet over there? Just like you're asking the wrong guy. No, this isn't even that. This is as simple... Like, just turn your fingers into a finger gun like I just did because I wanted to test this out. And then put it up against your right temple.

Look where the trajectory is. It's just straight left, obviously. It's straight through. But, yeah, maybe it's on an angle and then it just goes through...

What, is it saying that it goes through his right temple, out from his left, and then goes to the ceiling? Yeah, maybe it's like curved bullets, like in that movie Wanted, or whatever it was called, where they curve the bullets when they shoot him. That's a pretty obscure reference. Oh, really? Is that a thing? No, that's a fantasy movie or whatever. It's not real. You can't curve bullets in real life. Oh, okay.

I kind of started thinking about how he was maybe contorting himself. Maybe he was bent over. He had his elbow on his knee. And then he had his head resting on the gun, so he was kind of sideways. That's where my brain starts to go. I don't really know. That seems like such a weird way to intentionally kill yourself, though. If he's resting his head on his gun, maybe he fell asleep drunk on it and then accidentally went off through his head up into the roof. Maybe it was an accident.

It doesn't make sense to me. This doesn't make sense to me at all. But even if he was murdered, even if he was murdered, how does that make sense? Like, he would have had to have been lying down and he's... How would you get a gun under his right temple and then shoot up through the roof? It doesn't make sense. Nothing makes sense here. Maybe. Maybe. Again, you're really asking the wrong guy.

Oh, I'm asking Kira. Kira's a gun expert. She goes to the firing range every week. Look, see, I don't know enough about Kira to know if that's true. She's like Rambo. Apparently when Georgia got a bed and Leodore stayed downstairs with guests, she said to them, he's going to shoot himself. She's fucking Nostradamus. Yeah. She reinforced,

He is getting the gun and now he's going to shoot himself. And then when they heard the shot, she said, see there, I told you so. This may have been set in a tone where Leonor was mocking George being sulky that night. They're all downstairs talking. She hears those noise and she's like, oh yeah, classic George. He's up there going to kill himself. What a loser. He's all sad and mopey.

Well, yeah, that's the thing. Was he always talking about it, was he? Well, that's what I said when I first read this. Maybe he had a habit of always saying, oh, I'm going to go upstairs and kill myself now or something like that. You know, passive aggressive kind of. Maybe. That's the only situation where that would make sense to me.

Yeah, look, reportedly the evidence tape and seal on George Reeves' house was broken during the investigation. Some believe this was Leonor, who left with around $4,000 of traveller's cheques. This is roughly $43,000. Not bad. It was supposed to be for their honeymoon, but no one else knew about this.

They were unable to test for things like gunpowder on George's hands because the body had been cleaned before the autopsy. There was also no powder burns on his head near the wound, seemingly implying that the gun was not held close to the head. There was no note and George was naked at the time of death, unusual for a suicide. Yes, but I will add this. If he was in a robe,

That's the way to go out. If he was naked, that's weird. Untied? I assume it was untied. I don't know.

Yeah. Untied is, is just in fact, more baller. It's just a real, that's a Hollywood way to go out. Don't you reckon? Yeah. Down on your luck in your career in a very expensive, I don't know, goose feather robe. And then with a golden gun, bam, right in the head. That's how you're supposed to do it. Uh,

Yeah, I agree. Like, I absolutely think that there's a big difference in terms of dying in a bathrobe that's open, exposing yourself, and just dying completely naked. I think the bathrobe is a bit more cool, I guess, if you want to... It's way cool, for some reason. Yeah, I think it's just like, it is like the Hollywood vibe, I think, like you said. Like the party animal kind of

Yeah. Yeah. There was no explanation for the bruises on George's face and chest. There was facial bruises roughly two inches wide, possibly from a blunt impact, and chest bruises that were irregular and resembled fingertip pressure marks. Poor forensic documentation means that it's unknown if these were old or new bruises. Even though multiple bullets were found, the guests claimed that they had only heard one gunshot. It was only about a week of investigating the death.

George's mother, Helen, did not believe that his son committed suicide and would hire private investigators and detectives to do their own investigation. But she died only years later in 1964. The first detective she hired, Jerry Geisler...

pushed for a second autopsy after the ruling of suicide. This happened, but the results stayed consistent to the first. And Jerry told Helen he was satisfied with the ruling made by the coroner. Helen was still not happy and hired another investigator named Milo Spiriglio. Spiriglio. Milo Spiriglio.

This is incredible. No one has a serious name. No, this is Hollywood. It's Hollywood. It's like everyone there is an alien. I just can't believe it. It's an alien. Do you think that's a cheat sheet to success in life? Yeah. If you call your child a stupid name, they're going to be successful. Maybe that's why all these actors choose the dumbest names possible for their children. They're setting them up for the future.

I really don't understand the trend of that. If we have a kid, Chadwick Charmington. Chadwick Charmington? Right. You know what? I always wanted to call my kid, but my spouse was just dead against it. If it's a son, I wanted to call him boss. Oh, my God. Jordan, why? That's child abuse.

Is it? Are you setting him up for success? I was joking, and you said that with, like, full sincerity. You're actually a psycho. I am sincere. You're a psycho. Yeah, no, I think...

That is so mean. It would totally work. Why would you want to call your son boss, by the way? Because he's going to kill it in life. How can he not? What if he becomes a failure or something? That would be pathetic. I mean, it would be very funny. If that's the case, at least you have the consolation prize of it being like an endless ironic gag.

Which isn't good for him. He's constantly got the weight of boss hanging over him where he has to live up to that name. If he's a loser and he's called boss, that is so bad for your self-esteem. It's like a multiplier. It makes everything way worse. Yeah, don't do that. George's friend and manager, Arthur Wiseman, finally a serious name.

Said that George would often fire blank shots at his... Okay. Yeah, see, what's this as well? I just... I don't get Hollywood types. That shit. Firing off firecrackers while they're high on coke. Just shooting in the air. Well, it's... Yeah, it's probably drug abuse. Just... I don't know. They're insane. You see the people like this? Yeah. They just get drunk every night and party and stuff. It's just like the Hollywood actor life. He's posed a few questions. Could it have been an accident? No.

where there was a real bullet in the gun and George didn't notice, or was the blank bullet replaced with a real one with intent to kill? Ooh, okay. So maybe it was a murder, Kira, but maybe it was a murder, but there was actually no one there. They just replaced his gun. Like, they put a bullet in his gun. But that's a lot of...

That's a lot of assumptions that the killer would have to make. They had to know that he was going to play with his gun that night, and they also had to know that he was going to shoot enough times where the real bullet would be put into the chamber or whatever, and at that exact moment, he would have to aim for himself and shoot himself. That's a lot to leave up to fate if you wanted to kill a guy.

Did it necessarily have to be like that knife? Well, no, but what I'm saying is if they only put a single bullet into the magazine, like a single real bullet and all the rest are blanks, you're still playing basically Russian roulette at that point with your murder victim. You've got to make the assumption that he's putting the gun up to himself every single time and shooting instead of just shooting the ground or whatever. I don't know. I don't think...

I think that's cool, but I think it's more likely that there was someone there that killed him than that situation, than that theory I'm in. Okay, so here are the main conspiracy theories, or the theories. We've got two here for you guys to mull over.

The first one, Tony Mannix had George killed. Why? Tony was upset when he left her for Leonore and seemed to be jealous, obsessed, and heartbroken. George felt like Tony wouldn't leave him alone, so much so that he had a restraint. Well, he was in the process of getting a restraining order against her. Her husband, Eddie Mannix. Actually, now that I think about it, Eddie Mannix is way more of a porn star name than Tony Mannix. Eddie Mannix. Yeah, 100%.

That is a greasy porn star name, 100%. Is it just the Mannix part of it that makes it... I think it might be the Mannix part. It's just the Mannix part, but Eddie Mannix does sound... Yeah, like a porn star. A pathetic male porn star. Yeah. The Tony one's way better, I reckon, but that's my opinion. That's my opinion.

I understand that this isn't controversial. No one wants to call the kid boss. If it was Tony Mannix, like Tony spelt with a Y, like a male name, that would also be like way more porn star to me. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Totally. Totally. Eddie Mannix was apparently known as a bit of a fixer and could make problems in the industry just disappear. He was a powerful man in Hollywood and had many connections.

He was also rumored to tie... He also had rumored ties with organized crime, allowing him to fix these problems discreetly, and he also had ties with the police. These problems that he would fix were reportedly things like affairs, starlet pregnancies, drunk driving, abuse, drug abuse, and more. So he would...

He was one of these studio executives where if his actor had a problem that was going to bring them financial detriment, like a bad article coming out or something, he would fix the issue discreetly so that this news wouldn't come out. That he would, you know, pay people off. He would, uh,

you know, physically intimidate slash threaten them. And yes, he had those kind of mob connections. In fact, he maintained a relationship with mob figures like Johnny Rosselli, which gave him leverage with the police and press. There are also some rumors that he may have even been involved in the death of his first wife, Bernice Fitzmaurice. She actually filed for divorce and then was found in a suspicious car crash a few weeks later.

That's not a good sign. In 1999, a publicist named Edward Lozzi said that Tony, who had died in 1983, confessed on her deathbed to a priest that she was involved in George's death. He was apparently in the room, but this story has not been confirmed or substantiated. If you tell a priest that, don't they have to... Surely there's some kind of limits to priest confidentiality.

I actually don't know. Yeah, what the hell? What goes on with that? See, this is another one of those things of a clown getting shot out of a cannon. Maybe it doesn't exist. Surely not, because there can't be that kind of legal precedent or legal enforcement for you being told that this person is a murderer and then you not reporting that. Like, that makes you culpable at that point.

So I just did a quick Google. The AI overview told me that while not a formal vow of silence, Catholic priests are bound by the seal of confession. So they're strictly prohibited from revealing any information shared during confessions. They're expected to maintain discretion and confidentiality. Even with murder.

That's insane. Imagine being a priest and being told that, you know, like, hey, I just murdered someone and being forced by your vow of silence to a seal of confidentiality that you can't tell a single soul. That's crazy. Yeah, being a priest is such a bad job, isn't it? I always thought about that. That's a bad aspect for sure, but it is kind of awesome being told all the sickest gossip in town. Yeah, but...

The whole point of gossip is so that you can share it with other people. Well, can you share it with other priests? Is there some kind of like inner priest confidentiality? Yeah, is there a loop? Yeah, there's going to be a loop. Damn it. Maybe like you can write it down on a note and throw it in a bottle in a river or something and then you're not telling anyone. It's just up to fate. God's making that choice then who that note is delivered to.

I don't know. This is definitely a point of this that we needed Isaiah on since he's religious. He would have been able to tell us about this one. No, that's up? Okay. Yeah, I don't know. That's crazy. I thought they would have... If the police had found out that they were withholding that information, I don't think the symbol of confidentiality or whatever would protect them against legal implications. Right? Because...

Yeah, at that point, I think you are legally aiding the criminal. Like, you are legally helping the criminal escape justice. Do you reckon they've got considerations in the law for it? I don't know. Yeah, I really would like to know now. I'm going to look into that after this episode. And if you know in the comments, let us know. That's a pretty interesting thought experiment. Because I know, like, doctors and stuff are legally obligated to report crimes and stuff, right?

Even with Dr. Confidentiality. Yeah, I'm pretty sure they are. Like, you can't go tell your therapist, hey, I just killed someone, and then be like, hmm, let's unpack that, and then not tell the police. Like, that doesn't exist. They would need to report that. Okay. Okay, so, Tony loves George, or was obsessed with him, even if he moved on. Would that be enough to fuel her murder? What do you think? What do you guys think?

I think it's very suspicious that her husband had a lot of those ties that he did. Could have been possible that he was involved. Okay, so you think it is possible? Jordan?

It's possible. You're not buying into it too much, though. It also does just seem like he could have been a very depressed man. Look, all three of these, including the suicide, like the actual suicide, I think are possible. I lean towards the fact that there was no...

Um, no fingerprints. No, he, the state that he was in, he was undressed, uh, no suicide note, nothing like that. I do think it makes the murders themselves slightly more interesting to me in terms of them being, you know, a genuine reason or the genuine reason why this happened or how this happened. So I do actually lean towards the murders, but, um,

In the case of Toni Mannix and her husband, I really just don't see the point of Eddie Mannix being involved in this. Like, I feel like it's way more likely that

that Tony did it if this is the reason why he died that Tony was the cause of the murder but then she may have told Eddie Mannix about it and then he paid off the police to say that it was a suicide or something I don't think he sent I don't think he sent an assassin to kill him I think Tony potentially because she was a stalker at this point and she was threatening him through phone calls and things like that

I think it's way more likely that in an emotional outburst, she had an argument with him and killed him potentially. And then Eddie Mannix covered it up. The only reason why I don't think that this happened is because there were people at the house at the time. There were four other people at the house, including Leonore Lemon. And none of them saw Tony at the time. So I just don't see how that's even possible, really.

especially considering the state of the room where he was found dead wasn't disturbed basically like it wasn't broken into or wasn't there wasn't any sign of a struggle although having said that if the police are paid off and let's say leonore lemon and the party are paid off as well then no one would know as well right i guess it's possible the next one leonore lemon sorry

That's just not a bad theory, but yeah, go on. All right, so the next theory, the second theory, is Leonore Lemon killed George Reeves. A popular theory looking past Tony and Eddie is, of course, of Leonore. The relationship was not easy, and the two fought a lot of the time with Leonore having a short temper. She was, again, infamously known to be the only woman who was kicked out of somewhere called the Stork Club for being in a fistfight.

It's a major accomplishment. She's a Hall of Famer for that. That's pretty cool. There are some reports that when the killing shot ran out, Leonor, who was possibly upstairs, instead ran down saying, quote, I was down here. Tell them I was down here. End quote. Is that substantiated or is that just like a rumor, Kira?

Sorry. Is that substantiated? Is there like any proof of that? Oh, it says it right here. Never mind. So while being in a few publications, Kira struggled to find the origin of this. It seems to have just been secondhand accounts of William Bliss, apparently telling someone named Millicent Trent this. And this was then reported in Hollywood Kryptonite, which is a book by Sam Kashner and Nancy Schrodenberger. Um,

Okay, well that's just way too Chinese. Yeah, secondhand kind of testimonial. Like it's just gone through the hands, basically. But William Bliss was at the party. So if someone named Millicent Trent said that William Bliss told Millicent that, that's only one person removed. And they did have a relationship, William Bliss and Millicent Trent. I think they were working together at the time. It's impossible to know with that one, right? It's just impossible to know.

Alright, so when Leonore was questioned after George's death, she reiterated the idea that he was depressed about his career and the fact that he couldn't get another job past Superman because he was getting too old for conventional leading roles and was typecast. He also apparently told her that he was stressed about Tony not leaving him alone and she believed that these things led him to ending his own life. Which, yeah, again, like Jordan said, it's definitely possible.

It's definitely like, even likely that he killed himself. It didn't sound like he had a great life. Not really. I was very excited about this. I was down here telling him I was down here, but it's just, it's too far removed. Shooting yourself in the head. Huh? That three other people at the party went along with that. That three other people at the party went along with her saying like, Hey, I was down, I was down here. Just tell them I was down here. It's just, it's like, it's,

How easy would it be for a defense attorney to argue against that, you know? Yeah. Yeah, true. All right. So Leonor attempted to claim part of George's estate after his death, but she was unsuccessful. So people point to that as being a reason why she potentially killed him for his will and stuff. And they use that as proof that she did. Even though, even if I died through unsuspicious means, I would want Kira to claim part of my estate. I'm sure you would with your...

your partner as well, Jordan. So that's not too weird. They hadn't been together very long. And we don't know how George felt about the relationship considering she was like, we're going to get married. And he was like, oh, I don't really know. So we don't know if he was fully committed. Yeah, I mean, it doesn't sound like a great relationship from everything I've read. But at the same time, I don't think it is too...

Too much of a sign that she was guilty of murdering him just because she like went after his estate or a part of his estate that she may have felt legally entitled to after his death. Like it doesn't pin, it doesn't point to murder to me that specifically.

Maybe if you add in all the other factors, maybe, but just on its own, I don't think that's enough. Leonore did partially explain why there were additional bullets found. She apparently fired one shot days before his death, but there is also conflicting information about Leonore directly here. Some of her recountings claim she was just fooling around with it and it accidentally went off, and some others claim that she had wanted to, quote, see what it sounded like.

So on one hand, Leonore is saying that she was just playing with it and it accidentally went off. And in the other situation, she herself has said that she did it directly or she did it on purpose. She shot the gun previously because she wanted to see what it sounded like. So a bit of an inconsistency there with Leonore's statements.

So the theory itself, the theory of Leonor Lemon killing George Reeves stems mostly, obviously, from conjecture, as they all do. The witnesses all claim that George was unhappy that night and there had been tension in the relationship. Most people seem to believe that if true, if this...

theory is true, this is how it would have gone down. They would have drunkenly fought about money or George wasn't an overly wealthy man and Leonor liked the luxuries of life so they fought over that. Or a fight could have broken out with George telling Leonor that they were not going to get married and there were speculations that if this did occur she didn't intend to kill him, possibly just scare him or she was frustrated and acted without thinking. I do like the argument because there were two other bullet

two bullets, two other bullets on the ground or whatever, two bullet holes that weren't included in just the in the murder bullet, whatever you want to call it, the killing shot. So maybe they like wrestled around with the gun for a bit first and she was like threatening him with it. Okay, sorry. I just jumped off.

The Croatian 35-year-old man that I am just got up. Just so everyone knows, this is 12pm here. And he just jumped into the shot naked. Okay, good. Proving that it is possible to commit suicide while... That was incredible. He jumped in. He's going to be on camera. Is he actually completely naked? Nah, he's got...

He's got board shorts on for some reason. Okay. Ask him how the Mario suite was. Is this like a pod with the queen or something? Basically, yeah. Whose pod is it? It's with Jackson. He does Red Thread. I'm really sorry. Is it live? It's live. You've exposed yourself to 10,000 people. I'm really sorry.

everybody get out get out was that mizlav yeah it was him oh my god legend he just staxed on me why did he come in and just throw himself on you he just jumped on me naked this is just what you do after each tour night that's how you wake up you wake up with cuddles

I don't know. It's always different. That was a more extreme one. I'm glad that was caught on camera. Yeah, they can be using your harassment claim. Exactly. That's all good. Where were we before we were so rudely interrupted? I don't remember. I don't remember now. The Leonor stuff. Yeah, it's just possible that they were arguing and fighting and that's why the other two bullet holes were found. They were just wrestling around with the gun and it went off multiple times and then she shot him.

I mean, that could explain the multiple gunshots. Don't you reckon this Leonor one? I'm taking it back. It's so much more likely than the Tony Maddox one. Well, yeah, I think so. I think it is because, again, she was already there at the party. She was already at the scene of the crime. Yeah. Tony wasn't. All right. Tony Maddox, I reckon, is like a distant third. Yeah. So I definitely think, to me, Leonor, Lemon, and Suicide are like 50-50.

Or let's say maybe 45-45 and then Tony Maddox is like 10% in terms of chances. So police also point to the fact that there were no fingerprints left on the gun and gloves were a common and popular piece of female clothing at the time which may have hidden the fingerprints. And we know that there was a party on at the time and Leonor Lemon...

They had gone out previously that night. They had gone out to an event. So she could have been wearing gloves, which may have hidden the fingerprints, which is pretty compelling, I think. I don't know if she was wearing gloves, but we do know that she was a socialite and socialites did often wear gloves. Wear gloves. That's true. Okay, so those are the main theories and that's all the evidence there is. Now make a determination, Jordan. Who did it?

I'm going with suicide, but it's purely just because there was the coroner's report and then investigators said do another one and they said, yeah, it's the same thing. The coroner and the autopsy and all the legal –

Sorry, not legal. Law enforcement people. The only way that they would cover this up is if someone like E-Manix was involved. I don't see how they would have covered it up if it was...

If it was Leonor Lemon. Like, she didn't have that kind of political sway or power over these people. No. The only thing that you could say is, as was outlined in the document, the only thing that you could say is, and I can't imagine this, that there was just a lazy investigation into it. Yeah, a 1950s investigation. They thought, ah, it's suicide, and they just...

moved on with their lives and they couldn't be bothered so they kind of just fudged it after that yeah imagine that happening yeah i mean it's the easiest uh answer for them right they come to a scene see a gun underneath this dude a part a group of people downstairs wouldn't it be so much less paperwork as a cop oh yeah wouldn't it be yeah plus like you've got you've got witnesses a group of witnesses downstairs who all claim that you know he just shot himself upstairs

Yeah, I mean, like, that's the most logical conclusion, right? That you draw as a police officer is that all these people downstairs were telling the truth and the scene upstairs was relatively undisturbed. There's a naked guy dead with a gun next to him. Obviously, like, their first thought is going to be suicide.

Yeah, he was also drinking at the time. Yeah, he was also drinking at the time. Which goes, obviously, either way, like, alcohol is a depressant, so it does make people sad when they drink. That could have exacerbated his suicidal tendencies and gave him the liquid courage necessary to go through with that. Or, on the other hand, it could have made Leonore

that much more aggressive and, you know, volatile and gave her the liquid courage to like kill him as well, potentially. So yeah, the alcohol goes either way. They were all drunk. That's a point in either one of the two categories. Okay. So your suicide, just, just, just to your suicide. I am suicide, but I will say that the Leonor stuff, even though that's much more circumstantial, but it fits, right?

Yes, I agree. Things like that. Don't you reckon? I mean, you absolutely could see this in a hundred other cases of like jilted people

Guilted lover gets told that they're not going to get married and if she is a gold digger, she's going to lose the money and stuff like that. And she's drunk and then they have an argument. They've been arguing all night. He goes off sulking upstairs. She follows him. They have an argument. Turns a bit into like a physical back and forth. They're pushing each other around. She knows where the gun is because she was playing with it the other day. She pulls it out of the drawer. He's naked with his bathrobe flapping around in the wind.

with these you know these manhood showing and things like that they get into that fight even more and then she shoots him or maybe even accidentally shoots him in the process you know yeah yeah circumstantial yes there's no hard evidence here but it's not like that's even like too much of a wild theory really honestly

nah it really isn't that's it it's just kind of like at this point all you can really sit there is thinking like yeah yeah I could see that happening exactly yeah and in the Maddox one I just can't see no I can't I mean I'm not saying it's impossible but like the other two just make way more sense I

I will say the main thing, the main thing that really, the only thing that makes it possible for the Mannix thing is that she did have a history of stalking him and threatening him. And she was also a jilted lover. But again, she wasn't there on the night as far as any of the other witnesses say. And I just don't see, I just don't see that one as much as, as the Leonor Lemon potentiality. Kira, what do you think?

Ultimately, I think suicide. While there are very suspicious aspects on both sides, probably more Leonor. I do think he did struggle to find work. Even though he wasn't severely in debt or anything, he wasn't where he thought he would be in that area of his life. He thought he would be in top movies. That's where he wanted to be.

He probably thought he was in his 40s as well. He probably thought maybe he'd be in a good relationship by now, maybe had a family. And maybe he just realised where he was and was feeling very depressed by it. Due to the alcohol as well? Yeah, that night maybe everything just sort of came to a head and...

He's just dumb. Plus he was probably feeling pretty disrespected in his own home as well by people he considered his friends. He was begging them to leave so he could go to sleep and things like that and they were just partying downstairs ignoring him basically. So he ended it. Yeah. He's like, yeah, well, I'm going to ruin your party permanently.

No, that's what I feel like. It's very sad. He probably was just not where he thought he would be. And maybe he felt like that was the only option for him. So, yeah. Okay, so you're going suicide? Yeah. I'm going to go Leonor. I don't know. I don't think... It's just that him being naked and things like that, I feel like he would have at least got dressed if he was going to kill himself. Maybe left a note.

Things like that. I don't know. There are strange things that he didn't even know. I also think that there's certain things about how he killed himself. Again, like through the right temple, the bruising on him, as well as the no gunpowder residue on his hands. That is very strange. No gunpowder burn marks on his face or anything like that. If he were to hold the gun up against his face, you would think that those things would be there. Yeah, it's just a lot of those little different things

things there that lead me to leaning towards Leonor Lemon doing it. So if this was a game of Clue, then I would say Leonor Lemon did it in the bedroom with the gun. That's what my conclusion would be.

That's going to do it for this episode of Red Thread. Let us know what you think below. Who did it? Who killed Superman? Please, no Lex Luthor comments or anything like that. Let's try to be serious here about this very serious case. This very serious game of Cluedo. It was the Supermaker. Have a read of the document. It's very interesting. The document will be linked below, as per usual. Jordan, thank you very much for joining us again this week. I really do appreciate it.

Yes. Honestly, as always, a pleasure. Guys, enjoy your flight. Let people know where they can find you real quick before we go. Friendly Geordies, I guess. Jordan Shanks.

If you're in Australia, go get tickets to Alien Hunter over at, I think it's your website. Do do that. You will enjoy that. Trust me. If you like Red Thread, you'll love Alien Hunter. Yeah. So it's a live show that he's doing currently touring across Australia where Jordan talks about his experiences with aliens and how he's now a truther.

So definitely go check that out. Made it sound even more insane than all you need to be. Go check that out. Really, really do appreciate all of your support and of course really do appreciate Jordan showing up. Appreciate it, man. Let us know your thoughts below and we'll see you next time on Red Thread. Thank you very much. Goodbye. ... ...

Thank you.