44: The Madness of NXIVM | Red Thread
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so

Hello, Red Thread people. It's me, Jackson. I'm here with Isaiah and Caleb. No funny, cool, interesting, twisty intro this week, sadly. It's already a long document that we're going to be going over here, so I figured putting more time into a long-winded intro, especially for a topic like what we're going to be covering today probably wasn't in the best interest. So skipping that, we're just going to talk about the topic because it is a

More serious topic. We've got a few weeks talking about silly, goofy things, and the people want more serious things now. We're taking a turn into some more serious topics. So, beats me. It's just what the comments tell me, Caleb. Oh, okay. I like Jackson just being passively annoyed, like, well, Caleb, I don't know. Let's find out. Why aren't we talking about this?

Let's find out why people want us to be depressed. Yeah, dude. Why they hate us so much. So this week we're covering NXIVM, which is a cult, a modern cult that...

I found out about it a few years ago. I don't know how mainstream this is. I don't know if you guys know much about NXIVM, but I actually heard about it on Reddit, of all places, specifically on an r slash relationship advice subreddit, because someone asked about

um how they could kind of get their their spouse out of the cult that was my first foray into it yeah like that their spouse had been uh kind of incumbent into this sex cult and they were like how do i get her out like this is how long ago i get her out this was like 20 i want to say 2018 is it i think that is horrible information is this still a thing is this called still a thing nexium

No, it's done. So I take it you guys haven't heard of it then? No, I have. I'm familiar with it. I just thought this was long gone. Next of them. No, I think it ended in like 2010.

2016 maybe I want to say he went to the guy we're jumping right to the end but he did go to jail the person in charge of bleep that bleep that bleep that yeah we need to keep the narrative structure of this episode intact we can't let people know true story who wants to start this bitch off

I'll start the bit Start swinging, Jackson I'm excited Look, to give us a quick little intro story because we didn't get one You're in a dark room and you're Jeffrey Epstein only Just kidding, no you're not You're Caleb, you have a gun You shoot Jeffrey Epstein which in turn also kills you It's symbolic of like the Ouroboros and the cycle and all that Go ahead I don't get it

I don't get it. Everyone wants to work on improving themselves. The idea of taking courses and classes in personal development is not new. We see it all the time on YouTube. You know, what was that guy with the car in the garage? Tai Lopez. I'm here in my garage. We see it all the time. We see it all the time. Lamborghini.

No, we're kidding. Today, there are thousands upon thousands of small to large businesses that advertise their services to help you become the best person you can be, whether it be financially, personally, in business, or even in your private relationships.

But it's not all sunshine and rainbows. Sometimes it's storms and manipulative, coercive, and exploitative practices. Enter the topic for today, a dark story about a cult operating publicly as a self-help service, a charismatic leader at the forefront, and a world of abuse and crime behind the scenes. This is the dark story of the self-helping, self-serving cult Nixxiom. Oh.

Did they bang Scientology? Yeah, surely, right? I don't know. No, they never did anything sexually inappropriate ever, Jackson. Yeah. Surely there would have been more evidence. Would they have been shut down in that case? I thought it was more like financial stuff. They got huge from Dianetics, which is like self-help. Yeah, they're all built on this. Weird.

That's what got them the big kick in the first place. They all have problems, but nothing openly known, at least as much as NXIVM. Because some stories of NXIVM are pretty gross, but we love gross stuff here. I mean, not that it happened, but we like talking about it. I don't remember the same level of stories about sex abuse at Scientology as NXIVM. I'm sure it still exists at Scientology, but...

Not so much in the past. At least not publicly known as much. Yeah. The Scientology is mostly just like allegedly indoctrination stuff and like violence and neglect and stuff like that. And financial stuff, of course. There's that one story, that girl getting ate up by cockroaches. I forget the details, but. What did you just say? There's this lady who like, I forget the specifics of it, but again, allegedly she was like, it was some kind of therapy.

The cult was having, or the cult, the Scientology Center was having. And she ended up being left in a room for a couple weeks and a cockroach bites all over her. I forget the specifics of it, but it was pretty sad. I didn't know they could bite. Yeah, they can bite. The big ones can. They sure can.

They got teeth? They got little mandibles or something? Mandibles. I used to have pet hissing cockroaches. Oh, she died. That's right. Yeah, Lisa McPherson. I remember that. Yeah. The cockroaches killed her or something else?

This is about an unrelated thing. She was in a car crash. Okay. She came out of the car. She seemed unharmed. She removed her clothes in the street. Paramedics transported her to a hospital. In order to avoid psychiatric interventions, local Scientologists convinced her to leave the hospital and seek care at a nearby church of Scientology. There she was held against her will for 17 days without any medical care while her physical and mental condition deteriorated and she died.

wow jesus and there's this i remember there's this whole thing about she had like connections to scientology members so it's like they're wanting to cover something up and she was fine yeah like the whole whole big stories there's a bunch of stuff like that with scientology but nothing at least again known they're still evil they're still incredibly evil uh an evil organization allegedly in minecraft hypothetically

We'll cover them someday. The IRS officially recognizes them as a religion and they don't have to pay taxes on their land. So... Yeah. They can go fuck themselves, as far as I'm concerned, because I have to pay taxes. Yeah, because they're co-opting religion as a concept. It's evil. It's fucked up. Yep. Fuckers. Where did it begin, Isaiah? Let's go. So...

And to clarify, this is about NXIVM, not Scientology. Yeah, we'll cover Scientology down the line and their cockroaches and stuff. Yeah, and Caleb will be responsible for it and I'll have nothing to do with it. Let's start on August 26th, 1960, with the birth of a man named Keith Allen Rainier. Born to advertising executive James Rainier and ballroom dance instructor Vera Oshipko.

Is that right? Probably. Shipko. Yeah. Keith had a relatively normal childhood living in New York. In later interviews with Keith's ex-girlfriend, it was revealed that Vera suffered from a heart condition and battled alcoholism throughout Keith's childhood. This may have been one of the reasons for the breakup of his parents' marriage, with James and Vera getting a divorce when Keith was eight years old.

Keith attended the Public Suffern High School in New York until the ninth grade where he moved to Rockland Country Day Private School, also in New York. It was a college prep school costing tens of thousands of dollars to enroll in. Growing up, his parents always doted on Keith and would comment on how smart he was. At the age of 12, he read the novel Second Foundation by Isaac Asimov.

The third book in a series about the rise and fall of a galactic empire and the dark age that could possibly follow its collapse. The novel contains significant mind control themes throughout and characters that themselves possess mind powers. We won't spoil the book, but it raises questions on control and the morality of influencing other people for the greater good.

From a young age, this novel stuck with Keith. The idea of influencing people's minds and controlling their actions was something that was captivating to him during his childhood, and these themes, motivations, and ideas later inspired what would become Nexum. Something seemed changing Keith as he became a young adult. He struggled his way through university, failing classes, and scraping by with a 2.26 GPA.

James and his later partner Barbara described it as if a switch was suddenly turned off overnight. That's called a golden child syndrome or something, isn't it? Where you over-accomplish during school and you're given all these titles of being a genius or whatever. And then once you become more of an independent adult,

As soon as you face one setback, you just crumble because you're failing to be the person that you had always been told you were. And it just compounds that pressure. And you start to have an identity crisis almost. It's a wild thing. Yeah, it happens to a lot of people, I think, especially if they were only doing it in the first place for validation. When they become independent, they kind of lose it. It's like burnout.

Like burnout, yeah. He became arrogant and superior, like he purported himself to be better than everyone else, and he looked down upon those around him. Keith began to isolate himself, and the seeds of a master manipulator were planted. His parents would overhear him talking to girls. Every one of them got the same spiel. I love you. You're the special one. You're important. You're the only one in my life, and I love you.

The lies themselves weren't particularly concerning. It was the comfort and ease with which Keith seemed to embrace these manipulations. What made the situation more interesting was that while you could call Keith many things, you definitely couldn't call him stupid. Although criticized for its proper validation, Keith achieved high scores on something called a megatest. A megatest? A what? And Keith, he's the creator of the megatest as well, let me guess.

Yeah, yeah, he made the megatest. The genius behind the megatest. We should take the megatest. We should find it and take it down the line. And take it and see how good we do. Created by psychologist Ronald K. Hoffman in the 1980s, the megatest was designed to measure high levels of intelligence even further beyond typical IQ test. It was often used for those seeking to join high IQ societies, including the self-named mega societies.

I've made a special test and if you do good on it, you get in my special club. Yeah, that's not cultish. It's just an entrance exam. It's really funny how that's worded. Even beyond IQ. Yeah, even smarter than Einstein because he never took a mega test. His score was reported in the Times Union paper in 1988 where he was literally called one in a million due to his success with the test and being a member of mega society.

A quote from a Times Union article in 1988. Whoa. Okay.

For one, it's a 48 question test. That's like all that it is. How much can you determine on that, really? And if you miss two, you are now in the super high stakes Costco membership club where you're one in 10 million. Jesus! What does self-administered mean here? That means I took it and I got all of them right, actually. Why is this an article? I could say that. So I'm the one in 100 million. What is this article? Self-administered prostate exam.

I actually self-administered the mega test and it told me that my mom, that your mom likes me more than she likes you, actually. I actually wouldn't be surprised.

I actually took the test and it said that your mom loves me and that she's leaving your dad for me, actually. Okay. Why? Is that what you're stealing my mom? That's not what you're stealing my mom. Are you sure that's what you're stealing my mom? Leave her alone! I'm pretty sure that's what it said. I mean, I self-administered it, so I think I know. I think I can read my own test. It came to me in a vision. Okay.

I'm pretty sure that's what it said. So I'm starting a religion now based off me and your mom. Can I join immediately, Isaiah? No, no. Because I looked at my mega test and it said you absolutely cannot join. Stealing moms should be a crime.

Yeah, well, I looked at my megatest and it's not, so grow up, actually. I hate being born with such a low mega IQ. Yeah, I looked at my megatest and said you should probably kill yourself, actually. Anyway, I initially...

believe that the mega society could be a scam or more of a scientologist style cult in and of itself but there are reportedly no interest fees or dues however due to the nature of ronald k hoffling going on to create other societies such as the prometheus society top one percent society one in the thousand society this guy's a fucking narcissist a

epimethas society and the omega society i'm not particularly willing to accept that this wasn't some kind of scam no the omega society sounds so cool i want to join that one test where's the sigma society in the 1980s keith worked within a company called amway an american mlm or multi-level marketing company

Amway was founded in the late 50s and is one of the largest MLMs in the world by revenue. They reported nearly $9 billion of sales in 2019.

They sell a bunch of home goods and beauty products, from skincare to cookware. But it has come under heavy scrutiny publicly for being a pyramid scheme, with the company being found guilty of illegal business practices in India in 2021. For refresher, pyramid schemes work primarily by making money by recruiting new members and not by selling actual products or services. They are doomed to fail, relying on the constant recruitment of new members to keep the flow.

Money flows from the bottom of the pyramid up to the top. They're also very deceptive, promising exciting opportunities. Many of these insidious schemes prey on new mothers, advertising the ability to work from home, playing on their desperate need to provide for their families, while requiring them to make investments into the business. Many don't see any return on their investments.

With the knowledge he learned in Amway, Keith went on to create his own MLM he called Consumers Byline Incorporated. Terrible name. Any company with a generic name like that is immediately a terrible name. Terrible name. Yeah. Fucking terrible name, dude. Consumers Byline. Consumers Byline. Yeah. This is Keith speaking. Sounds like

It sounds like it was thrown out by AI. You might as well call the company Buy Stuff Here. Consumer marketplace. Consumer marketplace of ideas. If you're not going to put any effort into your name, I can't take you seriously. Reading knowledge. I have more money than you do, Incorporated. I have more money than you do. Give me all your money, Inc. Big mega school, Inc.

Your mom and I are weird, LLC. No, Isaiah. Leave the moms alone. I'm a mama's boy. Me when your mom... Are you saying all of this because you know we have a big mom audience? You're trying to appeal to the mom audience. You and my mom... No, your mom and me, LLC. That's it. There we go. I'm a mama's boy, remember? So...

I looked at your megatest and it said you actually cry and piss your pants a lot. Fuck you! Stop reading my megatest! I gotta retake it. That's meant to be confidential. I gotta retake it next time I get to self-administer. The voice is so good with it. Stop reading my megatest! Stop reading my megatest, Isaiah! Like, nerd voice pushes up glasses. Like...

Stop hitting me with a lead pipe, please. Do you work for the base department? That's what my megatest said. My megatest has depicted me as the Chad Wojack and you as the Soy Wojack. My megatest says I need to stock up on Soylent. Tom's coming this weekend. He'll bring some Soylent. He'll bring some Soylent, yeah. The supposed...

idea behind the company was to give its members savings on household items and services. In exchange, those involved were required to pay a membership fee and recruit new people into the company. Initially, it was looking very successful, with the company gaining thousands of members, all actively recruiting more members and paying large account establishment fees themselves. However, it quickly faced legal backlash and was accused of being a pyramid scheme.

Several states began to investigate the company, arguing that the company solely relied financially on gaining new members and not by sales or products or services, thus making it an unsustainable and deceptive business predating on unaware people. A cult member predating on the unwitting? Never. Couldn't imagine. No, couldn't be, couldn't be.

Doesn't make sense. Why would they do that? The state of New York filed a lawsuit against the company and successfully pressured Keith into closing the company. He adamantly refused to admit guilt, but he did agree to pay a $40,000 fine.

Ultimately, he only paid $9,000 though, while actively boasting of his multi-million dollar net worth. This guy's a fucking dick. Shithead. Yeah, why are these scam artists and bad people getting tax cuts but not us? Yeah. $40,000? Well, for one, it's because they know how to play the system. But also, if it was a fine, he probably did some deferment thing where he was able to get out of it or something like that. Yeah.

It's also just objectively funny that both of you all got upset over $31,000 in unpaid legal fees when I once again remind you this is a predatory sex cult. Well, yeah, I'm pre-gaming on the anger. I'm pre-gaming on the anger. He's just a dick. This guy's a dick. There's more anger to come, don't worry. I looked at my mega test and said my reason for being mad is actually better than your reason for being mad.

Good luck with that one. He's got the mega test on his side, Caleb. We can't do anything. This guy's fucking... I think this guy invented the mega test. What the fuck? I've got the whole Excel spreadsheet pulled up. You can't work around me. He's got the answer key, Jackson. He's got all the numbers. He knows the pattern. It's A-C-B. A-C-B.

This business adventure was a complete bust, and he was banned from creating any similar company. But the whole thing wasn't a complete failure to Keith, as he met someone who would eventually become his other half. A woman named Tony Natalie. Bum bum bum.

Isaiah. Oh, wait, no. You were just talking. Caleb. Let me ask you the question, Caleb. Okay. Who is Tony Natalie? Described in her Instagram bio, Jackson, as a whistleblower, survivor, and author, Tony has lived a remarkable life. Similarly to Keith. That's what mine says, too. That is what yours says? Is that what the fucking Megatest says, too, Isaiah? Tony also grew up in New York. It says all this in the Megatest? Yeah.

yeah it's got everything yeah it's like a fucking I don't know and it's like an elder scroll

It is. 48 questions and you know everything. Oh my god. It's incredible. This guy's got so much knowledge. He's blinded. She was an entrepreneur and owned health food stores which aligned with her interests in wellness, health, and personal growth. It might have felt, however, that her growth had stalled in the 1990s. She was in a disintegrating marriage and was looking after her son who suffered terribly from epilepsy. This was a vulnerable time for Toni. She was stressed, her life was being torn apart, and she felt powerless. This

This left her an easy target for Keith, who recognized her unique weakness and used them immediately to his advantage. His weaknesses. Just real quick. Just real quick. Don't you feel like most people who make health food stores, like these organic health food stores, are a bit sketchy?

No, not really. I feel like I've seen a pattern with a lot of these health food stores, like these organic health food stores. Like having weird dudes at the top. Yeah. You want to buy some raw goat milk from my tiny fridge, man? Didn't you say there was a cult that you know personally, Caleb, in that kind of field? Yeah, but it's not like a store, though. They make a product.

Yeah, that's what I meant, though. I see what you're saying. In that general vibe. I'm thinking just like the local health food store and it's a really old nice lady. No, no, no, no. Those people are alright. Okay, yeah. I was close to just being like, I am on your side. Fuck them. You know what? Fuck them. No, I'm just kidding. You can say that. No.

Tony heard about the company Consumers Byline Incorporated through a mutual acquaintance she knew and thought the discounts the business offered could greatly help her own health businesses. Tony was, by all means, enchanted by Keith. His charismatic and magnetic energy drew her into his world, and when he promised to help her personally and professionally, she believed him.

Tony and her then-husband eventually became one of the top sellers within the company, and Tony ended up moving her and her son to New York to be closer to Keith and the action within the company itself. Oh, I see. Move closer to Keith and the action in the company. I get it.

Her husband was left behind and eventually the marriage existed only in name. It was not long after that the pair filed for divorce. Hearing the news, Keith swooped in and he and Tony began what would be an eight-year-long relationship. Wow.

Very healthy. That's good. Yeah, seems good. Seems good. They broke up in 1999 with Tony revealing later the extent of the harassment she was enduring from Keith during their tumultuous relationship. In 2019, she released the book The Program, Inside the Mind of Keith Raniere and the Rise and Fall of Nexium. What is it? Nexium? Nexium? Nexium. Nexium. Nexium.

NXIVM, where she gives a personal account of her experience within NXIVM and how abusive and manipulative Keith was and how ultimately she managed to leave the group and him.

Interesting. Poor gal. So she was a survivor, yeah. She was someone who was intimately tied with Keith at the beginning of the formation and was there during the early days, but then I guess left him and the cult. And now it's kind of like she talks about it. She's a survivor. That's cool. Whistleblower. That's probably where we get a lot of the early information from as well. She's probably a primary source on that front.

Next, we're going to find out about another founder of NXIVM, Nancy L. Salzman. But before that, just a quick break to hear from the sponsors of this video.

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Again, sleazy companies. So save more and spend less. Join the over 5 million members using Rocket Money today. Go to rocketmoney.com slash redthread or click the link in the description. It'll be down there to get started for free. Thanks to Rocket Money for saving us money. Thank you to you guys for checking them out. It just, it helps out the show so much. So big thank you. And now back to the episode. And back in. Now let's find out about Nancy. The sponsor for this episode of Red Thread.

Go to megatest.com/redthread to find out how you can take all mods. Just like Wendigoon. I unironically found the Megatest. Oh, okay.

What do the questions sound like? I know I've been joking a lot, but okay, so like the first 24, I'll just read it. For the first 24 problems, write the word or prefix that best completes each analogy. So for example, in the analogy, taste is to gustatory as smell is to olfactory. So hot and cold would be pyro and blank.

So like, you know, if something's hot, it is pyro, where if it's cold, it would be cryo, right? So the first 24 questions are like that. It says shoe is to cobbler as barrel is to blank. Cooper.

Is that actually? There's no answer here. Yeah, Cooper. You're the expert though, Wendigoon. Isaiah, you're the expert. I'm administrating. I can't give you all the answers when you're talking about it. Well, this isn't fair. We're meant to self-administer. You send me the test results and I'll tell you how I did. No, that's not. You clearly do not know how cults work, Jackson. I tell you how this works and you listen. Damn it. Night is today as nocturnal is too. That doesn't make sense. Yeah, diurnal.

Oh, okay. Yeah, I see now. I would think night is too nocturnal as day is too whatever. Sure, same thing. Whatever. God is too theology. Wait.

It says God is to theology as why if God exists, there is evil is to... What? That doesn't make sense. What? So it's asking for the other concept, like the reverse concept of what you just said? I guess, yeah. But it's a full sentence. It's not just the word God. It's like why if God exists, there is evil. And then a bunch of them are like dimensional questions. So you get like...

To the nearest percent, the probability that any one person selected at random was born on Monday is 14%. What is the probability? To the nearest percent that of any seven persons chosen at random, exactly one was born on Monday. So you get stuff like that a lot. Is the answer also 14%? No, I don't think it would be. I think it would be...

Right now, one out of seven. Then it would be 14%, I would think. I think I'd be better at the mini test. I can't take the mega test. It's too complicated. Mega's too big for you guys. Yeah, well, you wouldn't understand, would you? That's why... Do you know if you have a time limit on the test, or could you just sit there for a week and really go over it? I'm actually on the Mega Society's website right now. And it says, at the present time, the only test accepted...

are these five tests and the mega test is one of them and it says the mega society accepts only the qualifying scores listed here for admission purposes please do not submit applications based on any other test scores so if they just want your scores then i just i'm going to email them right now and say i got 48 you got them all right i actually own your organization and your mom now so i am the mega i

Okay, so Nancy L. Salzman. Before we dive deep into Nixxiom, we need to introduce a woman named Nancy Salzman. One of the pivotal figures of what would become Nixxiom, alongside Keith, Nancy was one of the key influences behind the cult, and she helped develop the framework that would form the group's courses and practices. Born on July 16th, 1954, Nancy grew up in New Jersey and was a trained nurse with a background in neurolinguistic programming, NLP, and hypnosis.

So yeah, that sounds legit. NNLP looked at communication, personal development and psychotherapy and the connections between neurological processes, language and learned behaviors. The aim was to help increase the quality of life within individuals by understanding and trying to modify their behaviors and thoughts.

Is that like a legitimate... I know hypnosis is like not, but is neurolinguistic programming like an actual accredited health system or health practice, I mean? That sounds like a made up term as well. No, that sounds right. Anything with programming sounds made up. Yeah, like computers, am I right? Well, we did make them up.

You can probably already see why Nancy and a man with manipulative tendencies like Keith would align and get along. Along with the shared common interest in changing people's behavior and influencing people's thoughts, both were also known for being persuasive and charismatic. Ever since Keith read Second Foundation when he was young, these ideas of control had swirled around inside his head. When introduced to each other by a mutual friend, to the pair, it seemed like fate.

Nancy was drawn to Keith's intelligence and ideas on the subject of personal improvement. And then on the other side of the coin, Keith saw Nancy's qualifications and past and knew she could be a valuable tool to implement his vision. And I guess give the cult, like the teachings of the cult, a bit more legitimacy. So yeah, that's probably why he like latched on to Nancy because, you know, she knew about neuro-linguistic programming. From that point on,

After looking at it, that is a real thing. Okay. So she was a legitimate trained person. Someone with science behind her. Interesting. What were you going to say, Caleb? I was going to say, how does she... Not how does she necessarily, but how do people who are smart... She was infatuated with his intelligence and they keep talking about his intelligence and he's talking about the Mensa test or the mega test. Mensa is like the legit one.

Mega's like the neurodivergent version, it seems like, of IQ test. You didn't say that, wouldn't you? Because I did better than you. No. No. How do so many smart people just do such stupid shit like create cults that will get eventually exposed? Are you saying what Nancy said?

No, he's talking about on Keith's side, I think. Just because you have a high IQ doesn't mean you're that socially intelligent, right? True, yeah. EQ is different. Right, but I don't know necessarily if your EQ counts towards your business sense. All the stuff he's doing to make money initially, it seems, up until this point. So it's like, I don't know.

Are you saying that smart people can't be evil? Because time and time again, some of the most evil people are smart. No, I agree with him. I'm just saying smart people shouldn't do shit like create multi-level marketing companies and cults. That seems like it's fairly obvious. Because the...

they're smart they should be smart enough to be able to make money yeah it's like it's just very legal avenues i mean not only is it uh he needs he should make money through a legal avenue he was already forced to pay money from the state once for doing the exact same thing he repeatedly did it's like it just doesn't seem he seems insane not intelligent he just seems insane but they keep talking about it yeah keep talking about his intelligence that's what it's confusing you know

Well, I think we also kind of at some point confused like charisma for intelligence as well. If someone has this level of confidence and charisma, I think people are more likely to just believe that they're like, you know, intelligent and successful because you want to believe it kind of. Yeah, that's true. Confidence does a lot. All right. How long is this one?

I can take the first page and a half of this next bit. Okay. The foundation and beliefs of Nixxiom. So now we're up to the Nixxiom part of this document. So in 1998, Keith and Nancy founded Executive Success Programs, or ESP, another fucking stupid name. The entity that would later become Nixxiom in Albany, New York. I always thought that it was a California cult.

It seems like the kind of thing that would be a California cult because a lot of actresses were involved in this, as we'll find out. So I was surprised to learn that this came from New York.

The name was inspired by the debt bondage contract, Nexum, I think that's how it's pronounced, Nexum, in the early Roman Republic days. Basically, it was the legally recognized agreement where a debtor would pledge their own person as collateral if they couldn't repay a loan, making themselves a form of property to the creditor until the debt was paid off. Experts out there may notice this was a very subtle hint at the organization's true goals, which, yeah, if you're going to name yourself after the concept of...

Basically legal slavery. Stay tuned for a secret surprise. Yeah, I wonder what'll happen with this group called Nixie. They may as well have called themselves like legal slavery. That's so strange. Anyway. Continuing on with the theme we have been touching on, the company was aimed towards helping individuals achieve more personal and professional success through overcoming their unique personal limitations and giving them an understanding of their desires and motivations. Who doesn't want that after all?

Sounds good on the surface, right? Just like how all self-help jargon sounds good on the surface. This is a mission statement on the NXIVM website back in 2003. Quote, NXIVM embodies a set of consistent and universal principles in which all humans can participate. These principles, apart from any mystical or religious notions, allow for life to persist and uphold a diversity of beliefs."

By creating a new understanding, we can actualize, I hate that word, we can actualize our potential to live and work together and consequently bring human existence to a whole new level. Yet this cannot be done without first raising human awareness, fostering an ethical humanitarianism, and celebrating what it truly means to be human. And this is our mission. What does any of that mean? That is all just words. It's all nonsense, dude. It's all fucking nonsense. Buzzwords.

Buzzwords buzzwords. I thought this was kind of like a modern thing like modern corporate thing But if it was happening back in 2000 2003 these guys started that shit. It seems like yeah, maybe they were forerunners free thing for runners the Promethean dumbass Where's the master chief would you need him we need to stop this dude finish this fight a wet piece dumbass I need a weapon

Close. Close to Master Chief. This is a good one. I need a weapon. I'm a voice actor. It's him. John Halo. No, it's Jimmy Rings.

Jimmy rings. Let's go into more detail about the teachings and concepts within Nixxiom, just in case anyone wants to be indoctrinated by the teachings, to gain an understanding of how the cult worked, starting with rational inquiry.

which is a term developed by Keith and Nancy. Rational inquiry was created to assist in finding and removing personal blocks and limitations. It would hypothetically allow the person to face their fears and weaknesses within the goal of creating breakthroughs and allowing individuals to move forward even further in their lives without these limitations. This is just auditing from Scientology.

Yeah, it's the same thing. They even go like doesn't Scientology have like a 12-point success plan or whatever? Yeah, here, my dog just pooped sawberry back. That's his 12-step plan. That's just Scientology, man! Come on! Maybe if he did better on his megatest, that wouldn't have happened. Maybe he could have predicted when his dog would have its next bowel movement. Maybe he could have known better. Yeah, exactly.

The company also had a 12 point mission statement that every member had to know, recite and live by. This was their pledge of allegiance. So yeah, was I right there? Isaiah, does Scientology also have like a 12 point mission step? 12 seems like a big number. That sounds right. 12 point plan Scientology. The bridge to total freedom.

Maybe I'm misremembering. I just feel like I had heard like 12 point plan or whatever in the concept of Scientology. Maybe it's more of like a self-help thing in general, but like the 12 step probably they have something called the bridge to total freedom, which definitely looks like a sort of chart you follow, but it looks kind of it has like two columns.

And then you have to work your way through the columns. It's a lot more than 12 points. Okay, maybe it's not. I think it's just a general concept in self-help because I just looked it up and it's a thing like alcohol addiction. So like the 12-step program. Oh yeah, the 12-step program. Yeah, like AA and stuff like that. Yeah, that's probably what was getting mixed up in my mind. Okay. Yeah.

So yeah, there's a document here in our document or a picture in our document on the 12-point mission statement by Keith Raniere. And it basically is just a bunch of gobbledygook about how people control the money, wealth, and resources of the world. It is essential for the survival of humankind for these things to be controlled by successful ethical people. I pledge to ethically control as much of the money, wealth, and resources of the world as possible within my success plan. So it's just a lot of like...

self-help stuff. Yeah, it's a lot of like, true success is never at the expense of others. As a successful individual, I will never envy another's success. It's just like... It's like it is a...

It is a dumb Ten Commandments of sorts. It's just like, I will do this thing because it's good for me. Alright, how about this? This is how shallow it is. Here's number two on the 12-point mission statement. There are no ultimate victims, therefore I will not choose to be a victim. Incredible. Inspiring. Revolutionary, I see. If you're a victim of something, simply don't be. Yeah, simply don't be a victim. Stop being a victim. Great. Thanks. I am committed to be successful. Thank you.

I appreciate that. Why didn't I think of it that way? Success is an internal state of clear, honest knowledge of what I am, my value in the world, and my responsibility for the way I react to all things. What a genius.

While living by the 12-point mission statement, students in the program were to purge themselves of parasites, dependent, manipulative, or morally weak people around them. Instead, they were told what they should strive to be and find others who were more self-sufficient and ethical, who were obviously all people within the Nixxiom organization.

They were also taught within the group of suppressives who were people that would try and ruin the progress and programs within NXIVM. So they were told, you know, there's people out there, everyone who's outside of NXIVM are suppressives and they want to stop you from being, you know, who you were always meant to be, who you could be. They'll stop you from reaching your full potential. So, you know, make sure you stay in NXIVM.

Keith would preach that members who had turned their back against these teachings or the program went through something he labeled the fall and were now lost people. It goes without saying, obviously, but these were all tools to implement isolationism on the people in the cult so that the manipulations themselves would be more effective, something we've seen time and time again.

When it began, NXIVM under ESP was quite successful. By 2003, nearly 4,000 people had taken classes and programs under Keith and Nancy. Each leader had their own titles, with Keith's being Vanguard. That's a pretty cool... What would your title be? Oh, man. I was hoping you were going to ask me that. If we started a cult and I had to give myself a name...

Alpha Fang. It's a bit furry adjacent, but I can work with it. Mine would be Master Chief. If we go with the video game theming. Alpha Fang is very cool and powerful and I don't know what you mean. Yeah, that's the name you use at FurFest. I could see that for sure. Those furry cons and stuff.

please call me alpha fang yeah i would i would choose a name like like uh um the the the plague dozer i'm just gonna keep giving eight-year-old like xbox gamer tag names oh yeah shadow bringer yeah yeah something tactical reaper that that would be my name

You're gonna throw in some X's in there too. Yeah, capital X, lowercase x. Underspace 420. I'm pretty sure that was literally my first game tag was like little x, big x, little x underscore like shadow assassin or something. Mine was hotspot and then my initials and then the year I was born because I knew absolutely nothing about internet security. Why don't you throw in your address too?

I was running around like playing Modern Warfare 2 like everyone's just like all my legal information yeah it's everything you need to find me in real life it's an act of god I never got like attacked yeah I always think about that as well like how uh how much unfettered internet access I had on those video games early on and how many like adults I communicated with in that period of time and how nothing bad happened luckily yep so my name was Hotspot

And then my private information. And then I changed it when I was like 12 to DepthScorch. I thought that was so cool. That's a sick name. What was your first username? Thank you. What was your first Xbox username? My first Xbox username pre-Xbox Live was MonkeyBeast. And then Xbox Live was OompaVille. And my first PC username was GlassDagger.

Oh, that goes on. Because you're fragile. You're fragile but dangerous. Because we're fragile but dangerous. Monkey Beast is sick. Dude, we were talking because, okay, what brought it up is Keith called himself Vanguard. Oh, yeah, in the group. And we were like, if you started a cult, what would your cult name be? So my first submission was Alpha Fang. Oh, wow. Wow.

Yeah, to me that sounds more furry. What would you guys call me? Isaiah, I'd call you... Shit. What would I call you? The Judge. I'd call you The Judge. Y'all, I like that. The Judge. Judge ain't bad. Yeah, I like that. Judge. And then Jackson, I'd call you... Chewy.

Oh yeah, because Australian, I get it. Or Barbie. How about I call you Barbie? Yeah, whatever. Whatever Australianism you want to give me. You like that? Caleb, I would call you either Chief... No! I wanted to be Chief. I wanted to be Master Chief. Okay, then I'm calling Caleb Hangman. That's way cooler. I'll take that. Thank you.

Hold on, I got one more for Jackson. Big dick. There we go. If we're telling lies, I like that. Many impactful businesses. Ben's to the left. Underscore XXX69. That's good.

Many impactful business figures reportedly took part in the courses which only added to the apparent legitimacy of the company, attracting more important figures to the programs. So I've got some names here of some important figures, some big names. You might not know them, but they actually were big in the early 2000s.

So we got Claire and Sarah Bronfman. Their father is like a billionaire. I think he's the chair executive of the Seagram group. Don't ask me what the Seagram group does, but apparently it's a big group. He's a billionaire. They got a ginger ale out there. Do they actually? Are you joking? Seagram's is a big ginger ale company. I'm not sure if they're related, but I tell you what, their ginger ale is delicious. It'll help you if you hurt belly. You gotta hurt belly.

Would they make over a billion dollars in ginger beer sales? I wouldn't be surprised. Okay. Maybe it is. Apparently it's a Canadian. Oh, yeah, you're right. No, it is. I'm looking at it now. So they're in the beverage industry. So they must be. Oh, I was actually right. Yeah, good shit. That's rare.

We got Allison Mack as well, who was an actress on Smallville. We got Emiliano Salinas, who is, and this was the wildest one to me, he's the son of former Mexican president Carlos Salinas de Fortari. What? So we have a literal Mexican prince, I guess. The Chelsea Clinton of Mexico.

Yeah. Christian Kriuk and Richard Branson, allegedly, Richard Branson allegedly was part of Nixxiom. Not confirmed, but allegedly. So now let's take a closer look into what programs and courses Nixxiom offered these very influential and powerful people. Who wants to take these? I want to take these. I want to take these so bad. Get them, bud. So first we have the executive success programs.

Their flagship program targeted at executives and professionals. This program could either take a five-day or week-long course with the sessions lasting hours upon hours a day. This course was designed to allow the participants to overcome their personal and professional blocks, which would allow them to uncover their deep insecurities to push forward further in life, allowing them to become the best executive or professional they could be.

But by revealing their deep secrets to Keith, they were also giving him the ammunition he needed to manipulate them. They would engage in role-playing, disguised as helping them practice what they were learning, but also subtly encouraging confirmation of Keith's values and beliefs. I'm excited for when this gets to just, like, sex. When it just gets into, like, they're all touching each other. Because so far, this is literally just Scientology, like, to a T. It's just an MLM, yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Well, it's a bit more than... MLMs are just like financial. It is an in-person MLM. Yeah. It is an MLM summer camp. I like that, yeah. That's good.

The Stripe Path Ranking System. This was a system where stripes or ranks were earned by members within the program, which would be represented by colored sashes to show off advancements within Nixum. Wait, okay, so it literally is a summer camp. They're earning the stripes? Yeah. He's right. What did I say? And just like summer camp, someone is getting molested by the counselor. Damn! Jesus. That was a hell of a delivery on that one. This guy's on a fucking roll.

Thanks, man. You know what? Just for that, I looked at my mega test again. You get to keep your mom. Oh, that's so you. Jackson is still losing his, but you get to keep your. OK, good. OK, I feel better about that. Let her know. Yeah, no.

You could earn these by showing loyalty or completing tasks or programs and by recruiting others. It created a very competitive dynamic within the organization, and if you had a higher rank, you could enforce authority over those who were lower ranked. It also gamified the system, and if mobile games are in indication, these types of systems are very successful at engaging the participants. This was the original mobile game. Gotcha game. Next up, we've got...

Exploration of Meaning, or EM. These were one-on-one sessions where senior members would question, in other words interrogate, the participant with the intention of helping them overcome their doubts and fears.

Turned more into getting the person to emotionally depend on Nixum for support and reinforce how the group was helping them heal and reinforcing the desperate need of the group continuously. Information learned was later used to guilt trip the participants, forcing them to stay loyal to Nixum. Trauma bonding. Trauma bonding. And then after that, we've got Jeunesse and Society of Protectors. This is where it starts to get a bit more nefarious. Finally. Finally.

These came a little bit later. The Jeunesse group targeted women in particular and the Society of Protectors targeted men.

Okay.

That's weird. It's a bit... I mean, it makes sense in the sense that this guy was obviously trying to condition women to have, you know, a subservient relationship with him so that he could get sex and things like that. But it's a bit weird to tie, like, self-help in with that. Like, how do you tie...

making women subservient into them being the best version of themselves. It seems incongruent. You've got to be a genius. It's how they manipulate. Yeah, that's how smart he was. No, it's about how they manipulate it. It's like, well, the best version of yourself is servant to a man. Traditional value roles are the best thing for you. Imagine you go through all this only to find out it's like some trad wife thing. Yeah.

Okay, so the last group was called Dominus Obsesquius Sororium, which is immediately not good because Dominus means to control or lord over, and Sororium means women. Women, yeah. I think it's subservient society of women, maybe. I think that's what that translates to, roughly. Oh, well, yeah. Secret, I think...

Yeah, first it says, known within Nixum as master over slave women. Oh, that's cool. That's great. Man, that's so cool. Whoa. I'm going to be real. That's the only name I've seen that I'm like, okay, that one sort of, you know, has like a metal band type of feel.

feel or like this could be a band. Yeah, I mean, I'm not saying I can donate. I don't think that would be a successful metal band. You're saying this is the first time it feels like a cult instead of just like a really lame marketing group. Yeah. Well, I started to get the Janus. Janus, dude. Sounds like anus. You put an A there, it's a fucking different story. Yeah. Janus itself sounds a bit weird. You put an A there, somebody's in trouble. Somebody's got a story to tell. Somebody's got to talk to their mom.

Somebody's got a few secrets That they're gonna keep But Jada sounds like something that I could see As like a corporate group Kind of like a support group within a corporate entity But then Society of Protectors That sounds like a hidden cult Yeah it's kind of weird Society of Protectors is pretty That sounds like the name a group of like Nine year old boys would make for their treehouse club For the LARPing Protectors of the world Yeah exactly And women Protectors

and women well it does show how juvenile and self-serving uh keith's whole mindset was yeah well it's literally like we're going to make a big club and all the women are going to have sex with me yeah how did he fucking get away with this this is crazy well we'll get there i'm always surprised that this keeps happening like this happens so often always surprising

Because I feel like all it would take is him coming onto a woman once and her being like, whoa, you're weird. I need to tell someone about this immediately. Well, that's why you spend a year doing the indoctrination. It's not like he's just going to go to someone and be like, hey, you want to join my dominus obsequious sororium? That's like a compartment. That's like the spec ops branch of fucking these freaks. The spec ops branch of molestation. Oh my god.

Keith may have been horny but he was also patient which is a dangerous combination oh yeah that's the worst thing a cult leader can be because that's how you end up with the fourth out like the you know the drinking the kool-aid that didn't happen within a week that was a year long multi-year long decade long you know manipulation process yeah

So, known within Nixum as Master over Slave Women, DOS was a secret subgroup within the organization meant to, quote, empower women through master and slave relationships. Women within the group. I'm not laughing at how terrible the snare was. I'm just laughing at the language of, like, well, you're empowered by being a slave. Those are seemingly contradictory uses of words in the English language there.

He was also just like 15 years early from just having a strange Tumblr account being accepted by thousands. Oh, true. Yeah. Like having a BDSM thing and it would have been whatever. Yeah. Women within the group were instructed to act as slaves and were at the mercy of their master. Hierarchy was rigid and the slaves had to obey those about them.

In order to join, the women had to provide collateral to ensure their silence. This was often in the form of nude photographs of themselves. DOS was solely women, with only one male at the top: Keith.

We'll dive a bit more into DOS later, as it was where a majority of the offending took place, unsurprisingly. So, to go back to what you were just saying, though, Isaiah, I was just thinking, like, DOM relationships, BDSM has been a thing, you know, forever. Obviously, that's a fetish that's been a thing forever. He could have easily found people that were willingly...

able to partake in that relationship with him consensually, but where he found his satisfaction is obviously manipulating people into doing it without consent. The Tumblr comment was a joke. It's very clear that it wasn't just the sexual roleplay part that got him off. It was the actual abuse of people. And money? Big money.

being able to i mean if we scroll down a little bit you can see the fucking he was on forbes in 2003 that's unbelievable wow we were just talking about forbes and as we know anyone who's on forbes is a monster yep to get there they had to suck a penis to get there for sure isn't that right jackson hey that's that's my uh understanding that's what i've heard yeah

That's what I've heard. I'm not taking it back. You don't have to. I agree. I'm on your side. So we're going to start this summer camp together. Yeah, exactly. No one's going to understand what the fuck we're talking about. That's fine. Isaiah, was it a cult? Was it a cult? So...

In 2003, Nixum sued a man called Rick Ross, the Rick Ross. I don't think it's the Rick Ross. Sued a man called Rick Ross, a deprogrammer and cult specialist. A former member had given copies of their training manuals to Rick, who then went on to publish them on his website, annotated with critiques. This caught Nixum to sue Rick, with the accusation being that he violated copyright law.

Rick, under the Ross Institute, argued that the use of the materials was protected under fair use as they had only used short excerpts for critical and educational purposes. Rick was analyzing the practices within Nixum and was trying to educate the public on its potential cult-like behaviors.

Court ended up ruling in favor of Rick, deciding that his use of the materials did fall under fair use and in the ruling put a big emphasis on freedom of speech and public interest. Man, it's wild that fair use laws have been happening forever. Sometimes in my head it's just YouTube. You only think of it in YouTube. I only think of it in YouTube brain rot terms. Yeah.

But yeah, it's a good thing that it's existed for as long as it has, because obviously things like this would be abused otherwise. Whoever he who has the most money controls every single thing that's ever said. Which is still true, but you just have to be more clever about it nowadays. Yeah, and there are martyrs do exist now, though, too. You know, there are still martyrs.

He was only five years into operation and Nixum already had cult accusations, not just by Rick, but Forbes also wrote an article in October of that year about the fact. The article was titled Cult of Personality, written by Michael Friedman. It highlighted the concerns around the group's practices, noting Keith's past of owning an MLM company.

He criticized and discussed the cult-like structure of Nixum and former members' already public accusations of the manipulation and exploitation they experienced in the organization.

The article actually featured a man named Edgar Bronfman Sr., a billionaire who owned the Seagram Group, whose daughters, Sarah and Claire, were heavily involved in Nixum, providing a large amount of funding themselves. Edgar outright said in the article, I think it's a cult, and confirmed that he hadn't spoken to his daughters in months. That's crazy. Case closed.

Yeah, imagine a billionaire coming out and saying that. Like, holy shit, guys, I think this is a cult. Like, even a billionaire is, like, a victim to this, basically. It's crazy. Yeah, it touches everyone. No pun intended.

Jesus. So on that note, this is where we get into the rough part of it, right? This is where it begins. Yeah, this is going to start to get a bit... I think we should give it to the person who is by far the most respectable, level-headed, definitely won't laugh at any of the details member of the group. Go ahead, Jackson. Ha!

I'm just kidding. You know who I want to talk to. I'm just kidding. We already touched on the cult structure itself, but it's time to really explore what was happening behind closed doors. In particular, the abuse of members. In particular, the abuse that members suffered under the hands of Keith.

Firstly, oh my lord, I cannot even believe this. I thought I'd be able to do this completely, but you... You are one sentence in. That's incredible. You set me up, Isaiah. You set me up. You set me up. Don't worry, you can do it. You can do it. Now, I do such a thing to you, my dear friend. What does the Megatest say? What does the Megatest say?

The Megatest says, actually, you are cringe and I am base. I'm sorry, I'm just reading off the answer key. I apologize. Firstly, let's go back to the DOS, Dominus Obsequius Sororium, a phrase that means Master of the Obedient Sisters in Latin. Allegedly for women's empowerment, we know that this group was more about forcing women to become slaves for their masters through a strict hierarchy.

Women didn't just submit nude images as collateral when entering. They also told personal secrets and financial information, providing anything that they could to be used by their masters or Keith if they stepped out of line.

He may have been the charismatic leader in the cult itself, but here in DOS, truly, Keith was a god emperor. A fact he was keenly and enthusiastically aware of, hence the naming scheme hearkening back to the Roman Empire. Yeah, that's crazy that he was let to get away with that naming scheme. He's just lopping. That is bold. Yeah. Yeah.

What a fucking douche. Yeah, what a fucking dick. Fuck this guy. Yeah, you know what? Controversial take here. I don't like him. Fuck this guy. This guy's a fucking dick. Only brief statements on this podcast. Even before the abuse and stuff, just for the naming convention. It's so douchey. I'm heavily against this guy. Dominus obsequious sororium. Yeah, bro, shut up, dude. What the fuck?

The women in the group were made to feel in fear, and they were forced to rely on their masters for everything, creating a relationship of necessity and worship. No actions or services were deemed off the table as to be a slave. They had to commit to the role with everything. Some slaves themselves had slaves, creating some sort of sick pyramid scheme as the women would also recruit new members into the subgroup.

Above everyone was Keith, the ultimate master. His ideas and ideologies and control would flow down through the pyramid, even though many did not directly interact with him. Except during the frequent times he had sexual relationships with the women as a part of their personal and emotional growth. That is an insane sentence. He had sexual relationships with women as a part of their personal and emotional growth.

You can just tell how he would conduct it as well. He probably did this shit, I'm pretty sure he did this stuff outside of just the DOS. I think the DOS part of this was more of the sub-dom relationship thing he fetished there. But even outside of that, I'm pretty sure he still manipulated the women into having sex with him under the guise of this is obviously going to be better for you in terms of your emotional and personal development. What a fucking dick.

It was posed that being sexually servient to Keith and doing what he wanted was important to prove one's loyalty. Thus, the sexual abuse became normalized and rampant in the group. Yeah, it's like at first it doesn't really make any sense. And then the more you more you learn about a character, it's like, OK, it's just people are falling into line around this guy. It doesn't matter if people are referring to him as intelligent. He's there's some kind of trait.

or something that this guy's fucking got it doesn't matter how smart you are or how smart he is i also think i think you touched on something there where it's like a groupthink element where you're more scared to step out once you're indoctrinated into a group setting like that uh it's much harder to break away from from the group and start thinking independently and i think a lot of obviously cult leaders and stuff are keenly aware of that fact and utilize it to their benefit yeah there's

bunch of psychological phenomena and syndromes where people are like you know incapable of escaping a clear even something clearly negative or horrible for their own yeah we see we see in a like the bystander effect as well and stuff like people who are you know aware that something is bad is happening but they're able to justify them staying out of it because someone else will take care of it or something like that eventually yeah

Once you were in, there was no real way out. The collateral that the women had been pressured into giving would be used as blackmail to make them stay, and the threat of realizing whatever it was they had given, nude images or personal information, would be used to ruin their lives. It was releasing whatever it was that they had given. Right. Just so people know. Yeah, Soviet style. Just control of information to keep people in line and keep people listening and acting in the exact same way that they're expected to.

Um, this in and of itself handed over in the pursuit of self betterment would keep them servient and obedient. One of the most infamous aspects of DOM was the brutal, uh, the branding ritual. Apparently being branded was supposed to be empowering. It wasn't, of course, it was simply humiliation ritual designed by Keith to see how far he could push his slaves. Each new depraved act, giving him an additional burst of a sick, uh, sick and depraved pleasure.

They were branded with Keith's initials, a symbol that showed his ownership over them. It was performed with a hot cauterizing pen and was very painful and traumatic for those who endured it. That is fucking insane. The dude got his initials branded on them with a hot rod. Basically what they do to cattle. Wow.

That is ridiculous. Yeah, it's pretty rough. In an article with CBC, a former member named Sarah Edmondson described what it was like going through all of this. At first, she explained that she was helping recruit new members and advertise ESP, even helping them with the process of opening new branches and offices. It changed when she was invited to a secret offshoot group, which we know as DOS.

She flew to Albany with four other women for their initiation where they were invited into a private condo. She handed over nude photos and written confessions as her collateral and was initially told that she would receive a dime-sized tattoo. It was here that Sarah and the other women were branded on their stomachs.

So they were even lied to about what they were going to... Oh, they were constantly lied. Even in this... Which is like, it goes... As far as I understand the whole sub and dom relationship, it's meant to be in a healthy situation. There's obviously meant to be no lying and you're meant to be very upfront about what you're doing and things like that. So the fact that this was even born from the start as lies about stuff, I mean...

Branding is just insane That is just like Next level Insanity And lunacy In of itself That's crazy Um

They were forced to kneel naked and read a script that began with, Master, please brand me. It would be an honor. Sarah did not know until a month later that she had been branded with Keith's initials, originally being told that it was going to be the four elements. She was horrified and disgusted that she was branded by this man who felt that he owned her. Sarah left the entire organization less than three months later, and when she went to the police, they ultimately concluded that they could not help her because they believed that she had given consent.

Oh my God. Given consent to being branded? Is that even a thing? That's fucking crazy. Well, okay. To play slight devil's advocate, she was cool, according to this, at least the way it's word, she was cool with being branded by Keith. She just wasn't cool when she found out it was his initials, right? So on the police's behalf, for what it'd be hard, even if she said it was all forced upon her to prove it, because, you know, witnesses and stuff like that,

But also, she was cool with every part of it. She just wasn't cool with what specifically she was branded with. I don't really see how the police could prosecute based on that. Is it legal to brand someone even with consent? Probably. Yeah, people get branded. That's crazy.

I've seen people get married and get the other ones like initial branded on them. That's crazy, man. I'm good. I got, yeah, I'll pass, but yeah, I'll stick with the wedding ring. How about that? Yeah. Let's keep it simple. Yeah,

She said, we were looking at each other at the beginning and we had surgical masks on because the smell of burnt flesh was so strong. It's fucking insane. There were eight first line masters within DOS. Some of those, such as Allison Mack, who was an actor on Smallville, were pretty famous. She attended a two day introduction course on JNS, which served as an introduction to Keith. And this resulted in a snowballing effect that led to her becoming a high ranking member in the organization.

Holy fuck. Whoa.

That's crazy. Also, the idea of recruiting other actors, obviously that's something that Scientology also does is because it gives it an air of legitimacy and also these people are influential, wealthy people. So it's good for the organization itself. To me, the most crazy thing about this is that it seems like he invited...

He had four other people there for the initiation. He must have been so confident at this time that nothing bad was ever going to happen to him. To be doing this so publicly within the organization, it was so widespread within the organization that there were other people

a lot of other people that were obviously okay with this. This DOS element, like the branding and stuff. That's wild. If those within DOS were disobedient, they were then subjected to punishment. This was all designed to increase their dependency on their masters and the group, and the women were isolated, humiliated, and made to perform forced labor. They were also made to follow very strict diets, some only on 500 calories a day.

That's fucking ridiculous as well, as there was a big emphasis on losing weight and being perfect. Not only did this cause psychological strain, but following unhealthy diets would have made many physically weak and ill, which would have added to the already difficult act of defying those with power. Yeah, that's another strategy we see often in these cults. Very small amounts of nutrition being used to keep them weak and...

I mean, this also just generally exists in a lot of abusive relationships as a whole, like between spouses or kids. Withholding food is like a pretty defining trait. Yeah. This was paired with the constant humiliation and degradation, forcing women to talk about their flaws and sins, stripping away their sense of any worth and confidence they may have had.

Masters within the DOS were told to direct their slaves to be sexual with Keith. These were almost like assignments. The Slater came up in trial while talking about Keith's attempts at sex trafficking. The slaves were often called racial slurs and awful derogatory terms to humiliate them and had to be on call for their masters at any time of the day or night, interrupting their sleep and causing many to become sleep deprived.

Punishments were a regular thing and the members being forced to whip each other or hold painful poses or expose themselves to the elements. NXIVM didn't have a traditional compound either. Instead, many high-ranking NXIVM members, including those involved in DOS, resided in Albany, New York, suburb of Clifton Park.

The neighborhood became an informal hub for NXIVM, with several members living nearby in houses or townhomes, often in close proximity with one another. The arrangement allowed for close supervision, regular communication, and control over members' daily lives without the need for an official cult-like compound. In DOS, members were expected to be available to their masters at all times regardless of where they lived.

Interesting. Yeah, so they ring a bell or they text you or whatever and you have to come over immediately. You've had a hard nine to five day at work doing whatever you're doing and then you get home and you've got to work the second shift basically for fucking Keith. That sounds fucking terrible. Caleb, I just want to say you read that entire thing and didn't laugh once and I'm so proud of you. I also read it on one breath as well. That's how I prevented myself from laughing was not having enough breath to laugh.

Wow. Yeah, it's my new theory. You're so brave. You're so brave. I should have admitted that, but that's actually what I've been doing this entire time. It prevents me from laughing when I don't. Oh, wait, there's two paragraphs left in this section. I apologize. Walt, don't mess it up now.

Keith would groom and sexually abuse women and young girls as well. It came out later in trial that he had managed to convince multiple women that by having sex with them, they could heal their cold. Oh my God. Yeah, you can't. That's like the worst possible place ever in the entire world. Dude, you fucked me so good. I got it. I got it. You're so good. I threw out that strip. You fucked me, bro.

I threw out that spike strip and you ran right over it. Just full speed. Holy shit.

I plead not guilty. Oh, man. For people who haven't seen... If anyone's coming out on this first episode, you seem like a monster right now. I do. I seem like a terrible fucking person. This is a repeated... This is a thing, though. I have a terrible... Oh, it's so good. Affliction. He was born with an affliction. Keith would... Oh, my God. I can hear you rumbling over it. This is an insane sentence, though, what you're about to read. It's so cartoonishly stupid. Uh...

Oh no, hold on. I didn't even see this part. He would say that his semen contained supernatural qualities and believed that there was nothing wrong with sexual assault, child sexual assault, and also incest. It was uncovered in the... His semen was like healthy. He's saying it provided health benefits. He's not even evil. He's like magically evil. Yeah, so he convinced multiple women that by having sex with him they could heal their disintegrations. Whatever the fuck that means. Yeah, what the fuck? What a fucking freak.

It was uncovered in a Times Union article in 2012 that Keith had at least three sexual relationships with minors. One was only 12 when he met him while he was 30, when she met him while he was 30. He invited her over for tutoring and to walk their dog. This led to a repeated process of sexual abuse at the hands of Keith. Dude, fuck those fucking parents for one. That's crazy. How is that even a thing?

Bruh, that's insane. His whole DOS secret group and stuff, he literally could have been a Discord mod in the current year. I think if he was born a few decades later, he's giving me Discord fetish, Discord kind of vibes. Very, very weird. Freak.

There is so, so much more to NXIVM, it's impossible to fit it all in. There is the alleged research into trying to treat Tourette's Syndrome and the human experiments where they were forced to watch extremely disturbing footage, such as people being murdered while someone monitored their brainwaves and facial and auditory responses and so on. The abuse inflicted upon people at NXIVM by Keith and his fellow cult leaders is almost endless, but it's almost inconsequential to add every single act of abuse

inflicted over the many years just because I guess there's so much. So many different cases and I think what we've talked about so far has been kind of all encompassing of the theme of all the other abuse anyway. It'd be just kind of like torture to just go over every single fine detail. We get the idea, right? Yeah. I can take the missing persons if you want. Yep. Or the suspicious deaths, I should say. So

The deaths of four women have been speculated to be linked to Nixxiom and Keith. While no official charges have come out, it is still worth discussing as the extent of the rest of Keith's crimes make the accusation substantial. The 2019 documentary The Lost Women of Nixxiom also explored and investigated the suspicious deaths of the women within the organization.

So the first one up is Kristen Snyder. So Kristen disappeared in February of 2003. She was an environmental consultant and a member of Nixum from Alaska. Year prior, she had paid $7,000 to take part in a two-week ESP course hosted by Nancy Salzman. And when she returned to her parents for Christmas, she expressed how, quote, incredible Keith was. And when questioned, she did not listen to any possible criticism her parents had about him.

Keith had apparently been keen to mentor Kristen himself, and she began to try to prevent herself from sleeping as much as possible, as apparently Keith, the Vanguard, didn't sleep either. As time went on, Kristen was walking around like she was on the verge of a mental breakdown. Kristen became convinced that the Columbia Space Shuttle that disintegrated and killed seven people was her fault, and she became suicidal.

According to a Frank Report article, Kristen was pregnant before her disappearance with the father of the baby being Keith, though this is unsubstantiated. Jesus. Kristen was last seen at a Nixum seminar where she was kicked out due to disruptive behavior. The next day, her vehicle was found at a campground with the door unlocked and two reported suicide notes on the passenger seat. One of them reading...

I attended a course called Executive Success Programs, aka Nixum, based out of Anchorage, Alaska, and Albany, New York. I was brainwashed and my emotional center of the brain was killed and turned off. I still have feeling in my external skin, but my internal organs are rotting. Please contact my parents. If you find me or this note, I am sorry, life. I didn't know I was already dead. May we persist into the future. And then a second note that read,

No need to search for my body. Nixxiom has denied the claims that Kristen was pregnant. There are questions on whether or not her death was a suicide and the strange nature surrounding it. I mean, regardless of if they were directly involved in her disappearance and or suicide, I think it's pretty obvious. Like she was last seen at a Nixxiom seminar where she was kicked out due to disruptive behavior. And these people, like she felt a sense of belonging and obviously she

a connection with these people she had been brainwashed by them basically so she was kicked out and abandoned by them and she was already probably severely mentally ill and vulnerable that would have driven her to suicide so even if they didn't directly do it yeah it's easy to say they were the reason even if they didn't do it they were the reason she's dead yeah exactly yeah

Man, that one note's awful. I have a feeling in my skin, but my organs are rotting. Yeah, it's very sad. Even just the last letter just being no need to search for my body. Just very, very sad. The next woman is Gina Hutchinson. Gina was one of the first women that became involved with Keith. They met when she was a teenager. She was also an ardent follower of his and his teachings, involving herself within the company heavily.

She died of an apparent suicide from a gunshot wound in October of 2002 at a Buddhist monastery in Woodstock. Her family believe, unquestionably, that Gina was manipulated and emotionally destroyed by Keith and Nixon, and he had groomed and controlled her from a young age. Gina had apparently been going around and telling people that she had been sexual with Keith

when she was only 14 years old. Which is something Keith did not want her talking about with people outside the organization. Thus the implication of Keith being involved in her death. So the idea is Gina was talking about Keith sexually abusing her when she was 14. So he had her killed, made it look like a suicide. Yeah, I think it's believable. I mean, this man's going around sexually abusing tens of women. I don't think there's a lot I would put past him. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, yeah.

Just so tragic. People from such a young age thinking that, you know... Looking for self-betterment. Some answers. Being so vulnerable. Looking for answers in their life and coming across a kid who is perfectly poised to take advantage of them. The worst person imaginable for their current situations. Being convinced that someone that's that, you know, evil is that good for them in reality. It's very sad, yeah. Yeah, I wish they had more people around them. It sounds like there were...

obviously very alone and didn't have the right people around to guide them onto better paths. Also, just the fact that so many of the women in his life have died or otherwise committed suicide, that's obviously pretty indicative of something. Yeah.

And then finally, Barbara Jeske and Pamela Kifritz. So two women by the names of Barbara and Pamela both died of cancer in the years prior to Keith's later arrest. Barbara in 2014 and Pamela in 2016. Apparently, they were suffering from their illnesses. Keith refused to let them seek traditional medicine and care. He would instead offer alternative treatments. He would instead lay blame of their illness at their purported emotional failings.

Even with the medical neglect, there are a few strange aspects to their deaths. According to an article in 2019 in the New York Post, they had unusually high levels of bismuth and barium when tested after their deaths. Heavy metals revealed from a hair test lead many to think they had been poisoned, especially since Keith would handle all of their treatments and we know that they were all on strict diets and routines. It's not official, but many think it's possible.

Yeah, I wonder... I can see that. I wonder if he did it out of potential... Like, even more sick pleasure, because he obviously thought he was God. He thought he was a God-like figure, as most cult leaders do. I wonder if he thought... It was an element of more sexual pleasure, like pushing the line even further to directly kill someone. Yeah, well, there's no greater control you can take over another person than to take their life. Right. So...

It could have just been an extension of that. Or if it was like a situation like Gina Hutchinson where they were starting to talk or something. Yeah, or maybe since they were both ill, they were determined to leave the group and he couldn't let that happen because they knew too much. So he had to make it look like they died of their cancer. Who knows? Yeah. So finally, downfall and imprisonment. I can still take this one if you want. Yeah, sure. It's not that long. Cool. So downfall and imprisonment.

Keith Raniere was arrested in March of 2018 and he was formally charged with an array of crimes. Sex trafficking, sex trafficking conspiracy, forced labor conspiracy, racketeering, racketeering conspiracy, wire fraud conspiracy, and attempted sex trafficking of a minor. The trial lasted six weeks and was held in the United States District Court for the Eastern District of New York.

Prosecution was led by U.S. Attorney Richard P. Donahue, who argued that Keith used NXIVM as a front for criminal activities and manipulated, abused, and exploited members for his own personal gain.

They made arguments that NXIVM was a pyramid scheme, as Keith had a prior history of experience with the concept, and they alleged that he had created the secret inner circle groups of NXIVM to satisfy his sexual and financial interests. On the other side, Keith's attorneys argued that all of the members participated voluntarily in every relationship or sexual encounter was consensual.

Keith was just a misunderstood guy. Of course. Visionary that his followers willingly stood behind. Former members came and gave testimonies against Keith during the trial, including Sarah Edmondson and Lauren Salzman, Nancy's daughter. They talked about the abuse they experienced at the hands of Keith and how controlling and manipulative the man was. They described in excruciating detail about how they were forced to stay loyal up until this point. The branding on their skin was shown, evidence enough of the torture they endured.

Emails and text messages, over 200 pages of emails, also entered Discovery during the trial, and these documents directly showed the tight vives Keith had on all the members. All of his finance records were also presented, and it confirmed that Keith would manipulate fundings and his connections to prominent backers. Everything came out in the open, and the public eye, Keith, and the...

Oh, and the public eye and Keith at this point had no way to hide or manipulate. So there's a sketch of Keith awaiting hearing day. It's one of those typical court like pictures, you know, the court drawings. I always love these pictures of the defendants looking so fucking like scared and miserable. It always makes me a little bit happy knowing that they likely went through a torturous experience in of itself at court, like squirming under that kind of pressure and stuff.

It doesn't make up for what they did, obviously, but it is nice to know. Sure, but it's nice to see him not in control. Yes, exactly. 100%. Some of the messages between Keith and women within Nixxiom have been publicly released in a Forbes article since the trial. He is talking to a woman, Camilla, who was apparently his first sex slave and met when he was in his 40s and she was only 15. This dialogue, while graphic, is possibly the best insight into Rainier.

I don't think it's super graphic. We can go over it, though. It's not super graphic. Caleb, would you like to be the child? Absolutely. I don't think she's a child at this point because she's married or something. Where are we at exactly? Right here. Right here where it says where it's the dialogue starting. Right here. So you're Camilla. Probably don't voice act it. I won't. Don't worry. I feel like that's probably insensitive. Yeah, I won't.

Oh, like, oh, don't throw your voice, you mean? Don't act like it? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, this is the conversation between the two. You don't hurt enough or desire me enough. Postulate-wise, you need to feel better, more strongly, and be more desirous of me in every single way compared to anything with R. I'll note there that R is her ex-boyfriend. Ex-boyfriend. Or I guess her boyfriend at this time. Okay, I thought I did.

Doesn't seem that way. For example, you do not crave me sexually. Still you. Oh yeah. That was especially needed during the past 24 hours. What does that have to do with art? Sex. It is not only shared by us as a thought object. There is subconscious evaluation, comparison, postulates.

It's very destructive. I, we, really needed you to want me sexually yesterday and earlier. What the fuck? Why are you still protecting what you did with R? Why won't you face this in yourself so things can get better? Can I ask, what does postulates mean? To think on, to ponder. Ruminate. Okay.

Okay. So what he's saying here is he's trying to frame it as like, well, if you don't tell me about your sexual history and also you don't want me sexual, you're never going to get better. Yeah, you need to have sex with me and talk about sex and desire me. You need to have sex with me to feel better. You need to desire me to be better. Yeah. I don't have the answers you're looking for. I'm sorry. Please find them now. Ask yourself those questions. Visualize what you did, how you made those decisions, and see the future evaporate.

Also, see yourself being the type of person you don't want to be. It should deeply disturb and disgust you. I hate to be so crude, but it will build your conscience to strongly see our little child say... What the fuck? Strongly seeing our little child saying, please, mommy, don't, as you...

Our child saying, please, mommy, don't. As you spread your legs and picture that child withering as you do and truly get, that's what you did. What? What does that even mean? Death penalty. Yeah. Just shoot this guy. It'll build your conscience to see our child saying,

the picture that I'm weathering. Is he saying like your future child will be ashamed? Like you'll disappoint your future child by not

By not being the best version of yourself by giving yourself sexually to me? Is that what he's saying? I think he's saying that our future child wouldn't want you to not give yourself sexually to me. So spread your legs for me. Yeah, I think that's what he's saying. But picture our future child. Negative riz. So true, King. Do you have physical desire?

Can emotional be enough? If you want me to come tonight, I will under these conditions. There will be no talking. You will meet me at the door in the outfit you think I would find sexiest. You will arouse me. We will make love for my satisfaction and pleasure. You will do everything you can to provide that. I will finish and leave. Do you agree? Yes or no? Is there a reason why you picked 4 a.m. for this? Forget it then. Oh, he's patting. Oh, poor baby. No, no, no. It's 3.45 a.m.

then... Why no talking? Good night. I don't understand what's going on. Too much pride. I'll text you tomorrow. What a fucking horrible person. This is insane. He's insanely evil, but what also... What's kind of comforting about these figures, because you think you're... Sometimes there are people who like...

Maybe not necessarily demon-possessed, but they seem like a deep, deep evil. Like Jim Jones. Figures like that, right? But when I hear about this guy, I see his text. Like what you said earlier, Jackson, he just comes off as a Discord predator. Yes, exactly. It's so fucking weird. He has way too much clout. He doesn't seem intelligent. He seems like a narcissistic... Dummy. He seems like a fucking dummy, dude.

Yeah, like that whole, like, I will come over, you will wear something that you think is sexy. Yeah, I'm imagining him, like, wearing a fedora. Exactly! Tips fedora, scratch his neck beard. He thinks of himself as, like, the Chad and all those BDSM fetish videos that he watches. Like, he's like, yeah, that's totally me. I'm out for his fuck.

He's speaking like the way a 13 year old boy thinks sex works. I will come over. You will wear sexy outfit like it's so it's so juvenile. Well, this is all like the like he's male fantasy of control and stuff like that, as opposed to an emotional connection between two people. It's all. Yeah.

for him for his satisfaction he's a stunted he is absolutely like a stunted overprivileged like perpetual 13 year old boy basically yeah yeah

Uh, Rainier referred to himself as Camilla's husband, though the two were never officially married. So that explains, uh, this where Rainier says, again, this is to Camilla. It is such a painful, bittersweet thing. The truth of our life together that could have been made real yet now us forever a secret and nullified.

I love you so much. I am so proud to have been your husband for 8.75 years and shared a home for four. Yet I am also so heartbroken. Love bombing. That's a love bombing. Yeah. Although Camilla suffered from bulimia, Rainier would harass her about her weight, wanting her to weigh a hundred pounds or less. That's how 45 kilograms or less for my fellow, uh, you know, no one cares. Jackson, uh, so this is Rainier. Yeah.

Reneer, please answer the three past questions. Also, for more questions to be answered right now. What have you done today for this? Have you failed today or done anything against your objectives? What are you doing towards them this moment? What have you done today that was difficult in the name of love for me? I have not eaten and I am dedicating all of my free time to you, either reading or communicating to figure it out. I have not indulged in anger.

Sounds like a start. Is there anything else you would want to ask of me? What I've already and as I've said, figure out each thing you destroy and address fix each one. You need to list them because there are a good number. How much do you weigh? I don't know. I think 120. Why did you gain? Lack. Oh, sorry. Oh, you were 113. Lack of exercise during intensives.

You need to eat less. The extra weight hurts my heart physically when I am with you. I'm sure he was like the embodiment of physical perfection. He's also like a body shamer on top of everything else. He's everything evil. Oh, man. By the way, how's your weight? I don't know. Why do I look fat? I'm sad then because it's important to me. To not know is to not care enough. I disagree, but I will weigh myself for you.

How much do you weigh? I do not know. That's really bad considering. Weigh yourself now. 130. So how long will it take to lose 30 pounds? Two months. Should be much quicker. Needs to be much quicker. Fucking hate this man. Look at a picture of him, by the way. And this guy is the one like shaming them on their appearances and stuff. Fucking nerd.

How? How is this guy this good? I get that this is after all the manipulation and stuff, but I just can't imagine this guy as charismatic at all. It's just about knowing how to manipulate people. That's all this comes down to. How to talk people into...

Like getting them to open up thinking you have a connection and then eventually convincing them that you are the reason for the positives, the good things that come out of their life, that they can't operate without you. I'm just lamenting that he even exists. It's just my way of coping with the fact. I mean, if you can effectively convince someone that they cannot function without you, you can say whatever you want to them.

Regardless of how terrible or monstrous. Because the alternative is nothingness. Going back to the unknown. Their life falling apart. That's how these people get it. Yeah. I remember my first girlfriend back in high school. I probably had that same mindset towards of like, I would do anything for you. Please don't leave me. So imagine that. Only like... With an actual manipulator. Yeah.

Yeah, like, and also in the sense where, like, you're now in an adult age where all of those, like, child wonderments that kind of surrounded that are gone. So now everything seems more objective. Like, it's factual this time rather than emotional. Yeah, 100%. Yeah. I can go over this outcome if we want.

Sure. Take us out, Jackson. All right. So Keith Raniere was found guilty of all charges after just a few hours of deliberation and was sentenced to 120 years in prison without the possibility of parole. I just want to... That's a good sentence. That is actually pretty good. It's a pretty good one, yeah. Normally it's like they get a slap on the wrist, but that's pretty good. Yeah. Barring death, I'm happy with that.

Yeah.

She apologized to the victims in court and expressed her deep regret for her actions. Yeah, I mean, if she's instrumental in this, you know, spreading trauma to other women, that's a very light sentence in my opinion. Nancy Salzman, the prefect, which is what she was like the second in command, basically, pled guilty to racketeering, conspiracy and admitted to assisting in the monitoring of information gathered on

enemies in quotation marks and former members she was sentenced in 2021 to 3.5 years in prison her daughter lauren was obviously close to the group through her mother and became actively involved and was another master within the dos she pled guilty to racketeering and racketeering conspiracy and during the trial testified against keith because of her cooperation she received five years probation with no prison time served

She kind of reminds me of Ghislaine Maxwell. Yeah. The procurer? Yeah. The procurer, yeah. The administrator. I feel like she should have been given 20 years. I would have been happy with something like that. 3.5 is very lenient. And a punch right to the face.

I feel like that should be start. That should be normal. Just getting punched in the face. If you get like, you know how, if it's over a year or whatever, you go to a prison instead of just a regional jail.

If it's punch time. Yeah, exactly. Every five years, you should just get punched in the fucking face once. Why? Punch day. Every December 13th. Every five... I'm talking every five years you get on your sentence, you get punched once when you leave the courtroom after your sentence. Oh, right. Yeah. No, I'd be fine with it being like you just get six punches to the face. Yeah, exactly. Why don't you make it a yearly thing for that sentence? Oh, that's true. Yeah. That's actually a good idea. A year any... Yeah. Yeah.

You walk out of the courtroom and there's just a good old boy there in a pair of overalls like, it's your appointment, mister. Come on up. The new version of the guy who greases the electric chair or whatever the fuck. Yep, yep. It's the equivalent of the hangman, the gallows officer standing there. But he's just got a dip in. It reminds me of like...

Up until recently, I think they do lethal injection now. They could still do it, but up until like the 80s, Russia's execution method was a gun. And not like a firing squad, like it was a guy with a revolver that shot you in the back of the head. Fucking cowboy. So the way they would do it is there would be a room where the person to be executed is let in and there's just a guy standing in there in a t-shirt holding a gun. Just like...

And you kneel down, he just shoots you in the back of the head. No hood or anything? He's just there smiling. No, just like chilling out. Just like on his way on a lunch break right now. I'll be your executioner for today. I'm Greg. Yeah, exactly. One of those guys, but it's just for a punch. I can see you doing that job, Caleb. Yeah, I'd be a great puncher. The punch man. Punch man. Have you ever punched a man before in your life, Caleb? Yeah.

Okay, sweet. You'd be good at it then. Yeah. I mean, I was in jujitsu for a long time and we would fight with fucking... It wasn't like Brazilian jujitsu, it was Japanese jujitsu. But we would beat each other up with headgear and stuff. And then, yeah. I also punched... You did it. Sweet. I punched your mom. I'm sorry.

I'm sorry, dude. Your mega test score just went way up. Wait, no. Your mega test score just went way up. Leave my mom alone. We haven't touched much on Claire Bronfman.

But she was one of Nixxiom's main financial backers and provided a lot of funding that allowed Keith to have the control he did over the organization. And it also allowed him to actively intimidate and silence enemies through lawsuits. So this was one of the women with the billionaire father. She pled guilty to charges of conspiracy to conceal and harbor illegal aliens for financial gain and fraudulent use of identification, which I guess goes hand in hand with trafficking. Yeah.

These charges involve bringing non-US citizens into the United States and forcing them to work for NXIVM under illegal circumstances. The individuals she brought in depended on NXIVM for legal status, which increased their vulnerability and allowed the organization to exert control over them. She was sentenced to 81 months, just under seven years in prison. That's a substantial sentence. Throughout the trial, very little remorse was shown from Claire. So I wonder if that's the difference. Like maybe the...

the people that showed no remorse were sentenced more severely. Well, it's also just dependent on the nature of the crime itself because Nancy's was like conspiracy of racketeering. Whereas like Claire here was like illegally importing people from overseas and like it carries a greater sentence. But the remorse can go a long way sometimes. But in cases as intensive of this, I'm going to guess not that much.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure showing remorse is a mitigating factor, but it depends on the severity of the crime. 100%.

And we also have Kathy Russell, who was a bookkeeper for the company, not so much involved in the activities around DOS, at least from what was divulged, but more of a financial operations agent of NXIVM as she would assist in covering up illegal activities herself. She pled guilty to visa fraud and admitted to also bringing in illegal immigrants into the country to work for NXIVM as well. And she was sentenced to two years of probation and no prison time.

This trial was understandably explosive. Former members discussed in detail the branding rituals, the starvation diets, and the humiliation and abuse they endured, along with the DOS abuse. Keith will, hopefully, be in prison forever. Again, big thank you to my girlfriend for compiling the research and writing this document. She's such a G, dude. Super, dude. Yeah, she's really good. She's great. I did see some messages being like, oh, I hope Jackson's girlfriend gets paid for this. Obviously, she gets paid for this. I'm not...

I'm not keeping it in this house. Why? Who does that? I know you guys are going to do that. Are you supposed to pay your girlfriend? Yeah. No, that's part of the dating thing. Ask my wife if she gets any money. She's been doing horrible stuff for free this whole time.

My girlfriend is about 80% of this operation, so she deserves it 100%. Yeah, Jackson's actually the one at the end of a leash. I'm like, please. I don't want to do this anymore. She forces me into this room.

uh yeah so she said keith will hopefully be in prison forever and yeah i obviously agree with her on that one uh i think i think this resonates with women more than men but yeah i mean 100 agree with that resonate pretty hard than that i don't like this guy yeah i don't like dick weeds like this yeah i think it means something different to women though to see their agency kind of controlled in this in this way it definitely would be more confronting

Some members of the cult stuck by Raniere. Oh, man. How? Even after the conviction with members like Nikki Klein, a fellow actor and inner member of the DOS, launching an activist group called We Are As You with the goal of, quote, and this is their mission statement on their website, reminding those in prison that they are not forgotten. So they turn it into like a more broad activist mission, but obviously it's a group within...

within the um nixxiom organization that goal is to remind you to spread awareness of of what's his name renear uh the members ever performative danced outside of the metropolitan detention center in brooklyn where renear was detained while they used the hashtag black lives matter hashtag on their social media platforms to attempt to latch onto that movement for traction oh my god wow

uh you can't get much hold on is there a lot hold on uh i think so from what from what i checked there when i was editing this document and compiling everything i'm pretty sure i checked the instagram and the instagram was still up oh my gosh it is this is great i don't i don't remember checking if it was still active but it was definitely still up last post was uh no 2022 okay that's still recent i mean it's only two years ago

Yeah. Christmas of two years ago. And then they quit posting. They have 1,000 followers. Instagram bio. Transcending the walls that separate us by embracing our shared humanity. Showing up to remind those in prison they are not forgotten. Hate them. It's great. Klein, this woman who set up this movement, let's call it.

She herself has a verified Twitter account where she uses it to advocate on his behalf and has done so up until very recently, which I guess is probably the end of 2022 when she's swapped sides, basically. The Times Union has documented that this also included an alleged threat to publicly identify Rainier sex trafficking victims who were themselves granted anonymity by court order. I'm so happy I said that word right. That's always been my holy grail of words. I always fuck up that word.

Anonymity. See? Fucked it. Jesus Christ. Anonymity. Well, I had it once. I had it once. I'm happy with that. She was also, up until very recently, selling NXIVM merchandise. Yo! I wonder what that looked like. If the money wasn't going to her, I would get one to be ironic, but I don't want any of these monsters actually making money off of it. What did the merchandise look like? Let's have a look. Okay, it's boring. It's just the word. Is it just the logo? Yeah.

There's a Vanguard Volleyball League shirt that I'm looking at right now with Renea's face on it. That's super weird. Anyway. I can get a knockoff one. Yeah, it's literally just a shirt. Yeah, lame.

She has since publicly disavowed Keith Raniere in a public statement that is still pinned on her Twitter account, but many are wary of her at this point, given all of her outbursts and insane, vile stuff she's talked about regarding the victims and stuff. That seems more just like covering her old saving face situation. Yeah, at this point.

For a lighthearted end to this episode, here's a fun anecdote. Oh, and it's got to do with punching. That's cool. According to NBC News in 2022, Rainier was attacked by a fellow inmate who punched him in the head, face, and he suffered from a black eye swelling, nausea, and dizziness for more than a week while in prison. And my girlfriend notes here, he must still be the same insufferable douchebag in prison as well.

That is really good information. That's a great ending. That is a great ending. Very well compiled, this document. I feel like that told the entire story and it ended on a light-hearted note. Thank you very much for joining us. Do you guys have any last-minute words about NXIVM? I feel like we covered it all. Fuck Keith Raniere. He can suck it.

There we go. What he said. Fuck that guy. I agree with him. That guy must have a big mega score. How much would you pay right now, Caleb, to punch Raniere in the face? How many times? Once? Once, but you get to do it as hard as possible. Like, as hard as you want. Shit. You can double fist it, too. You can go back to, like, right hook and then left hook if you want. I would max out all my credit cards for that.

Definitely. Because it's not my money, so I wouldn't feel so... I would just pay it off monthly. I would max out all my credit cards for that easily. I think that'd be worth... Now, do I get to film it? Because the money goes up a lot if I can make content. Big money, dude.

that's that youtuber mindset baby uh i would probably that's that entrepreneur spirit yes sir i'd probably pay like i'd pay like ten thousand dollars just to see it happen but i i wouldn't want to punch i'd i'd want to like hire someone to do the punching and i'd choose like a heavyweight or something someone who i know true damage i wouldn't want to waste that money on my punch basically that's what that's true yeah could i kick yeah

Yes, sure. I would do that. You could kill someone with a well-placed kirk. You can also brand him with your candy company logo if you want. I'll let it slide. You'll allow it? He'd only be advertising to fellow inmates, I guess, but still. Worth it. That's going to do it for this episode. I hope you guys all found it interesting. Very dark episode, but you guys have been asking for

darker topics and more substantive topics. So I hope you guys got something out of it. I think we did a very good job at, you know, going over all the details. If there's anything we missed, please let us know in the comments. Uh,

I do just want to point out, because I pulled it up. It's so funny. So going to Nikki Klein's Twitter account, again, her pinned and like most recent tweets about like, I no longer stand by Keith Raniere or which legitimacy of it, blah, blah, whatever. It's just really funny to imagine someone being like, honey, who was the girl in that show we were watching last night? Hold on. I found her Twitter. Let's see what she's talking about.

It's an insane ranting about how Rania was bad. Actually. Yeah, crazy. Fucking...

Do you want to shout out your charity again this week? Go for it. Oh yeah, the Appalachian Rebuild Project. If you're interested in checking it out, it would really mean a lot. There are people who are still considerably soggy. We are trying to make them less so. So check that out if you're interested. Much appreciated. All the love. Linked in the description. I think a lot of people showed their love and support last week. So obviously very appreciative of that for helping out. That effort. It's a great effort.

A lot of people in need of that help. So thank you. It'll be linked below so you can go check that out as well as obviously not a charity, but sour.gg for Caleb's candies and things like that. I love how it always gets thrown in there. I got to, I got to, I got to give you a do. You know what? Take the charity money, give it to sour.gg. No, not again. Stop saying that. Dude, she was in Battlestar Galactica. Yeah, she was. A lot of them were. A lot of the actresses in here were. That's a A-list show. Yeah.

Smallville as well. We already said that, but yeah, Smallville. Yep.

Yep, patreon.com slash the official podcast if you want early access to episodes, ad-free content over there, as well as a new series called Real Boys I'm doing with my friend Connor where we review movie series, so you can go check that out. It's on the YouTube channel as well. We'd appreciate the support there. A lot of people enjoy it, so you might as well if you like movies, so go check that out. And official.men for other stuff like that. Thank you very much for supporting Red Thread. We really do appreciate it. Thank you so much for joining us, and we'll see you next time. Stay red.

Bye. Stay red. Stay thread. Stay threaded. Bye. No, you didn't have a catchphrase, Caleb.