40: The Experiments of Plum Island | Red Thread
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The room was cold. Sterile. Its white walls reflecting the harsh flicker of fluorescent lights overhead. A heavy scent of chemicals lingered in the air, and the distant hum of machines reverberated through the stillness.

Occasionally, muffled cries echoed through the halls, followed by the metallic clanging of doors. The others, those taken before, always returned different. Their eyes wide, empty, haunted by things they can never comprehend. Some never returned at all. The white-coated figures who moved in and out spoke in clipped tones. Their faces always obscured by masks, their hands gloved and detached.

When they came for you, it was no different. The cold bite of the needle brought a floating numbness, and the world became a blur of sterile hallways and glass walls. Beyond those walls, others like yourself lay still on metal tables. Words floated through the air. FMD strain. Trial. Resistance. Spoken by the faceless figures who hovered. It wasn't until a fleeting glance at the reflection of a glass window

hooves tapping softly on the ground, a thick coat of fur, wide, unblinking eyes. The horrors, the cages, the experiments, everything made sense. This was far from human. You were just cattle. You were just another subject at Plum Island. Whoa! That was really good. I like that. That was stellar. That was good. That was good all around.

You're a cow from human. You were just cattle. But yeah, I understand that literally, literally it was a cow. Did you understand that you're a cow? I am a cow. I am a cow. I am, but I'm being milked currently. Yep. That's all it was. Jackson likes to do that to me for some reason. Um,

The facility I'm talking about there was just a farmer in a shed basically just milking Isaiah. That's the image I want everyone to have there. A farmer in a shed just milking. Yeah, that's Plum Island.

That is a different. And that fan art is going to be diabolical. Anyway, this is the red thread. I got to do the intro this time because Jackson asked Caleb if Caleb would like to do it, our esteemed guest. And he said no. So I said I'd do it. But anyway.

But no, that was awesome. Like, literally, yes, it was a cow. But I like the phrase, this was far from human. You were just cattle, but it's literally cattle and stuff. That was well done. I like that, Jackson. Thank you. Thank you very much. Caleb, now it's your turn to compliment me. Oh, no, I gave you a full round of applause. So you're good. Oh, sweet. Yeah, you'll be fine. Thank you very much. I appreciate it. Yeah, you figured it out. I appreciate it. Yeah, this is Red Thread. Hi, guys. Hi.

This week, we're talking about Plum Island. I had never heard of this place. Didn't know this place existed. I thought it was like Shutter Island when I first read the name. I was like, is that the horror movie thing where Leonardo DiCaprio shows up and goes through mental illness or something? I don't even remember that movie now. But yeah, I didn't know this place existed until my girlfriend told me about it. Do you have a girlfriend? Do you guys know...

I'm just kidding. It's hard to believe that this guy who sits at home writing fanfiction about Isaiah getting milked has a girlfriend, but yeah. Shockingly, he does. Yeah. Now I'm on your side, bud. Well, when you put it that way. Hey, she supports me in my endeavors, Isaiah. She cheers me on. Yeah, do you guys know about Plum Island? I've never heard of it. Yes.

I know about it for one because it pops up in a ton of conspiracy theories and stuff like that. But also just because it's...

There's a lot of examples with Plum Island when it comes to mishandling of events and knowledge and diseases. Both conspiracy theories and both actual confirmed shady government stuff. If it's in the wheelhouse of anti-state propaganda, I probably have peaked my head at it a time or two at some point. But yeah, there's a ton of stuff that's due with Plum Island. And there's also a ton of real stuff that's come from it. My wife works in animal research, so Plum Island's a really big part of all that. So

Yeah, your wife would probably know a lot about this. So for a top-down perspective on it or a synopsis of it, Isaiah, what would you say? I'm not super knowledgeable about it, but basically Plum Island is an animal disease center or animal research center. It...

If I recall right, Plum Island had an outbreak at some point that fueled a lot of the conspiracies around it. The conspiracy is that they test new diseases to use on the populace in there, when in reality they're just testing stuff and then sometimes disaster happens due to mishandling and then they don't properly inform people of what's going on. As the government does. As the government does, as they're so good at.

So they're really good at not telling us things. Where's Plum Island at? Wuhan? Yeah, the United States Department of Homeland Security. My God, they don't put COVID in there figuring out how to give it to the animal. That father donated bed out there for lunch. There is a COVID element to this story from what I read. Great. Cool. It's the early COVID.

So it went from like, it's a place where disease animal or they do disease research with animals to like, uh, they invent diseases out there to use their series about COVID coming from it. There's theories about like a swine flu coming from it and stuff like that, or not swine flu. What's the, uh, yeah, that was the one that happened in 2011 swine flu. Uh, so there's all these different theories that they're doing it on purpose basically. And the outbreaks are actually just like releasing it on purpose to see what happens. So, uh,

It's not a conspiracy theories, but as with most good conspiracy theories, it does come from a root of government negligence. So,

At least from what minimal research I've done. The quote here from Larry Barrett, the director of Plum Island Animal Disease Center, says, this lab is not a threat to the nation. This lab is here to protect the nation. Rebuttal, Isaiah? He said it. When you put it that way, I really... The director of Plum Island would not lie to us. What's his source? Trust me, bro. It came to me in a dream. I made it up. The source says, I made it up, yeah.

Source, trust me, bro. I always like that, you know, when the government officials come out and basically just say we're not lying. Yeah, no, no, we're being honest. This is the truth. We're being for real. Yeah. Source, nuh-uh. What is Plum Island? Well, it is a facility built to protect the nation's agricultural core, or is it a secret lab filled with evil scientists crafting the next big biological weapon?

Plum Islands. Yeah, that one probably. Yes, that one. That's definitely the one I'm going to say. Sometimes in these episodes, I'm too reasonable and I need to change that. Plum Island, a small island located off the coast of New York, is home to the Plum Island Animal Disease Center, a facility dedicated to researching foreign animal diseases that pose a threat to U.S. livestock.

However, secret nature of the facility and its high-level security status have fueled many conspiracy theories suggesting its involvement in biological warfare and even the creation of Lyme disease. What is really happening behind closed doors at Plum Island? There's a theory that they created Lyme disease in that bitch? That's crazy. Yep. Yeah, see that? I told you it was like COVID. Lyme disease was the original COVID. I have two family members that have permanent damage from Lyme disease.

What does Lyme disease do again? It just like makes you really tired? It like lays dormant for a long time in some people. Like you get a bullseye. Not everybody gets a bullseye. And sometimes it can affect you like 10 years later. And then they don't know what's wrong with you. And sometimes it just pops up negative on tests. My grandfather had to go to the University of Virginia like four different times because he was misdiagnosed a bunch. And they were just like, all right, we don't know what's wrong with him.

So, but he had Lyme disease and now he's fine. That was four years ago. That's good that he's fine, but that's always so terrifying that like health professionals can just go, yeah, we don't know what the fuck's wrong with you. Yeah. You're all, you're all kinds of fucked up. Yeah. Yeah. We're sick. We know that. Hey, thanks. Lyme disease is most often transmitted through ticks. Yeah. At least around here. Everywhere. So,

So the issue is like it normally takes a while to find a tick or to realize the tick is on you before you find it. So it's something you got to be super cautious of walking through the woods that and Rocky Mountain spotted fever. Yep. Yeah. Yeah.

Over here, the only thing you have to be scared of is stonefish, which are literally just fish that look like stones that live in rivers. Jackson, shut up. You said the only thing you have to be afraid of is stonefish. That's the only thing I'm afraid of. That's every other thing on the continent. Dude, everything else that can kill you is obvious and large. These are literal stones and rivers that if you stand on it, you die immediately.

Yeah, but you can see the blu-ray octopus. You can see the rings. The rings aren't always glowing. They glow when the animal chooses to. Okay, cigarette snails. I don't even know what that one is. It is a conch snail looking thing that strikes really quick and it kills you in the time it takes to smoke a cigarette. Hence the name.

Right, right, right, yeah. Box jellyfish. The invisible see-through jellyfish. Yeah, but you can see... Well, yeah, okay. You can see through them. You're right. Yep, that's what I thought. Funnel web spider.

They're not invisible. You can see them perfectly fine. Except when they're in their house, which is in fact a funnel web that is very small and hard to get in. What's that one plant you have that looks a lot like other plants, but if you touch it, it's like people have shot themselves because of how painful it is. When they wipe their asses with it, they mistakenly wipe their ass and then they are driven to sewer slide due to the pain. That's Gimpy Gimpy. It looks like a normal plant.

He mad when he realized things in the universe and the world are not actually what to fear, but the inner machinations of his mind. That's he mad. I'm not afraid of anything living. I'm only afraid of being alone with my own thoughts.

Okay. There is an entire dedicated season in your country where you can't go outside because birds will fly down and attack you because they're too horny. Hey, magpie season is a national holiday. Mm-hmm.

This guy says the only thing that can kill you is the only thing you have to fear. When I typed in, listen to this, I was typing in everything that can kill and it auto-failed kill you in Australia. That's great. That's great. Well, I haven't died yet. Oh, I was going to say. Yeah, I was going to say. I'm safe. So yeah, you know. Yeah.

I haven't learned to fear stuff. Don't you guys have killer bees too? Yes, okay. I was wrong. A lot of things over here can kill. Yes. There's a lot of things that can kill you over here. Don't remind me. It fills me with terror. I need to convince myself that it's safe. I can feel him getting scared. How many lethal snakes are in Australia? I know you have adders and you have the taipan. Oh, so many. Literally every snake you run into is deadly. Don't live there.

You know what's weird? New Zealand has no snakes and they're like right next door. I don't know how that's even possible. God liked them for some reason. A lot of water. Is that the reason? Well, I mean, most snakes don't swim. So yeah.

Okay, they couldn't make the trip over. What is the better reason? That someone decided not to put them there? I don't know. I genuinely don't know the reason. It seems really weird to me that we are so geographically close to one another. Okay, when you look at the species of tick in Australia, it is called the Australian paralysis tick. Is that not a... I mean, I know it's not the Australian paralysis. No, it's not. The paralysis tick is not...

There's a tick that has a symptom in its name. That's crazy. The Australia permanent death tick. Wait, wait, I forgot about this. You guys also have bull ants.

Yeah, don't you guys? No, no. The ant that stings is so painful, people have removed limbs to make the stinging stop. No, that's propaganda. It's not that bad. I've been bitten by a bull ant before. It hurts. It hurts really bad, but not to that degree. I didn't get bullet ants. That's if you get bit by...

No, not the bullet ant. The bull ant. B-U-L-L. Oh, I thought the bullet ant is South America. Got you. I thought that's the one that was like really high on the sting index or whatever. Well, the bullet ant is like a day straight, like 24 hours of suffering. The bull ant stings a lot, but the reason they're so dangerous is because, yes, if you get stung by one, you'll probably be fine, but they are like super aggressive and will swarm and like sting in the dozens all at once. Yeah, like fire ants. Yeah.

Only a lot bigger. We have fire ants too. You also have giant centipedes. You also have stuff that's just plain scary even though it's not super lethal like Huntsman spiders and whatnot.

Plus, uh, not to mention every shark on your water is like the most lethal kind of shark. That's true. Yeah. They are pretty, we, we do get a lot of shock attacks. They're pretty ballsy. A little dolphin attacks. Uh, it even, no, no, there aren't. No, there aren't. You hear about one every five years. No, there aren't. There's not. Actually, it does not happen. You're wrong. Actually, no, that's really funny. Uh,

The Plum Island Animal Disease Center, PIATIC, opened in 1954 by the U.S. Department of Agriculture, USDA, as the nation's premier defense against accidental or intentional introduction of transboundary animal diseases. This means that diseases like African swine fever... Is that the one you were talking about? Swine flu? I assume that's the same thing. He's talking about H1N1, I think. Ah, right. Diseases like African swine fever and foot and mouth disease, FMD, Plum Island Animal Disease Center,

Plum Island being the only place that is allowed to work with live disease samples, a study been used in an attempt to protect and safeguard the livestock of America by creating vaccines. The center was built in response to the disease outbreaks that occurred in Mexico and Canada in the mid 1950s. Mexico experienced a major outbreak of foot and mouth disease starting in 1946, and the epidemic threatened livestock across the country due to the proximity to the border.

In total, it's estimated that the Mexican outbreak affected millions of livestock. So yeah, I guess that was the main impetus for the creation of Plum Island. They wanted to prevent foot and mouth disease from destabilizing the nation's industry.

Foot and mouth affects cloven, cloven hoofed animals like cattle, pigs, and sheep. Outbreaks can lead to massive livestock culling, trade restrictions, and reduced economic activity in agriculture, which is obviously bad because the knock-on effects continue with loss of animals, decreased production of milk and meat, and money put into containment and vaccinations, and also increased costs to the public. So basically outbreak bad because your milk price goes up.

It is highly infectious and can be spread by contaminated equipment and wild animals. Cases of foot and mouth in humans is rare. So that's not really the concern or wasn't the concern. But the last reported case in the UK being in the 1960s, so it can happen, I guess. Basically, foot and mouth disease is an economically devastating viral disease that affects livestock, while hand, foot and mouth disease is a relatively mild viral infection that mainly affects young children.

Hand foot and mouth disease is like super common, right? That's not like crazy. Yeah, I know people who've gotten it. Yeah, you just get it from kids, I'm pretty sure. Yeah, and you like turn different colors and shit.

Yeah, it's a party trick. Foot and mouth disease is sensitive to our stomach acid, so it can only be given to humans if eaten by chewing in the mouth. What? If eaten by chewing in the mouth? What does that mean? As opposed to chewing elsewhere. Yeah. So it can only be given to humans if eaten by chewing in the mouth before swallowing.

The disease was considered eradicated in America in 1929 when America culled over 172,000 animals in a mass quarantine event.

This is all to say that America has... Well, the disease is being quarantined, not the animals. Oh, yeah, true. Yeah, true. This is all to say that America has a long and serious history with foot and mouth disease. I didn't know that. You guys, you know, got nasty feet and mouths. Yeah, it's not funny. It's sad. Yeah, with yellow fever, Spanish flu. You know, we've had a time or two. Of course, there was the consumption, but that got everyone. That was worldwide, but we had a lot going on.

Or busy. They were busy with getting sick. The Plum Island Animal Disease Center is located in Plum Island, New York. It only runs just under five kilometers or three miles long and two kilometers wide or one mile wide. And access is controlled by the United States Department of Homeland Security. Those are the good guys. And it was purchased by the government during the Spanish-American War. History lesson. When was that, guys? When was the Spanish-American War? 19... 19...

Oh, six, 1901, 1894. It was 90. I think it was like 98 to 02 or something like that.

Yeah, 1800s. It was the turn of the 19th century. It was right at the turn of the century, yeah. The island itself is pretty self-sustainable as it has its own power plant and emergency buildings and, of course, supremely tight security with access being completely restricted to people lacking certain security. Actually, it was exclusively in the year 1898. So, much shorter than I thought. That is a short war. Did they just give up immediately?

Well, you had the Spanish colonies down there, and you had the United States. And the United States was like, hey, don't do that. And it was like eight months. Yeah. Okay. Good for you guys, I guess. USA! USA! You don't say it with your heart. Yeah, I tried. It's so disingenuous when you say it.

USA. The island is pretty self-sustainable as it has its own power plant and emergency buildings and of course supremely tight security with access being completely restricted to people lacking certain security credentials. Due to the nature of the research, animals that appear on the island are killed to prevent any possible spread of diseases. The only exception to this being birds as the non-for-profit organization called National Audubon Society deemed the area as an important environment for the flying wildlife.

A middle ground was reportedly found between the two organizations, between the U.S. government and the order-born society. They came to the negotiation table and they agreed that, you know, they would allow the birds to coexist on the island. They'd place nests and boxes in particular areas throughout the island while still culling birds that strayed too far from the designated safe zones. That's going to be so fucking confusing for those birds. Mm-hmm.

It's like just sentry turrets mowing them down if they go into the wrong part of the island. I rarely feel bad for birds, but I'm feeling it today. That's a weird beef to have. I rarely feel bad for birds, but today I'm feeling it. That is a super common phobia and fear that I didn't know existed to the degree that it exists. I know so many people now that are terrified of birds. I still don't understand why. Terrified?

Yeah, terrified. Like actual phobia. Like spiders to them. Oh, that's strange. I didn't know that. Yeah, like multiple times now. So it has to be somewhat prevalent. I just lack empathy towards them. Okay, that's good.

While the center has allegedly researched over 40 animal diseases, it began by looking into foot and mouth disease in cattle exclusively. The center had multiple buildings with the strictest running in the biosafety level of three agriculture, which I guess is a building, meaning that they have specialized containment protocols designed for research on pathogens that could cause serious diseases in livestock, which would then cause economic consequences.

consequences. The features of the facility reportedly include controlled access, special air filtration systems, relevant immunizations available for staff, long and detailed safety manuals and protective clothing, which are more or less par for the course in any of these kinds of government facilities, with the only difference really being the immunizations being provided to workers. And I know vaccines are a hot topic in the world at the moment, so...

these employees were forced to take their immunizations. So spare some sympathy for the government spooks, please. They're being vaccinated against their will. Held down and shot. No, it's pretty standard for most of these. It's kind of like when soldiers have to go operate in the Middle East, they have to take a smallpox vaccination because there's still threats of it happening over there. If you're working in a lab that has all

All of these diseases. You have to get vaccinated for a ton of different stuff. Yeah, makes sense. You're literally working with live pathogens like actual the virus themselves. Yeah. And plus the like that rating, the biosafety level of three. So that's your BSL rating. Your BSL rating tells you how dangerous certain things are.

And it relates to anything that can hurt biological things. So it can be anything from like, like a blood sample, right? Like I think a BSL has like a, like the BSL of blood or something would be like a one, right? Because it shouldn't hurt you hypothetically, but everything has like a different rating. So a three ag means that it is very, very dangerous to agriculture specifically. It,

It's not like a three for humans. It's just three for agriculture. Is three the highest? Do you know if that's the highest? I think that's the highest. Pretty sure. Hold on. Because if it's not the highest, then this has lost street cred to me. Oh, four. Four is the highest? Okay.

Okay, well, where's that facility kept? Because that's where all the shit's going. 4 is dangerous microbes that pose immediate threats to life. So things like the Ebola would be considered a BSL-4. And COVID. No, honestly, I don't know if COVID... Because if you contract a direct Ebola strain, it's like you are going to die if we don't do something, typically. What about anthrax? That would be a 4, I would say.

Well, hold on. It might just be level protection. Yeah, BSL is just a protection level for the laboratory. So based on what you're working with. So anthrax, even though it's not like a virus or disease, it's still super dangerous to the people working on. So that's still be like a four, I think. Gotcha.

Alright, so that explains why the island is still to this day heavily guarded in an article from CBS. Oh wait, no, sorry, I'm stupid. After looking forward... It's actually the safest level. I don't want to spread misinformation. After looking forward, the BSL is restricted to dangerous biological agents. So no, anthrax wouldn't count because it's a chemical. So that would be like a chemical rating, whereas a disease like Ebola would count. Okay, gotcha. I'll shut up now. Continue.

So could they, because I think there are rumors that like they do study and use anthrax at places like this. Would they need a separate rating for that or is it like a... Well, I'm sure there's dangerous chemicals and stuff like that in here they're working with. Yeah, true. I guarantee that.

um but chemicals typically as long as you store them correctly aren't alive with the threat of you know they can't run away anthrax can't run away yeah yeah not as scary well maybe that's what they're trying to create running anthrax yeah anthrax yeah why would they do that why would they do that why are they doing that jackson can you tell me

I'm scared now. They want weapons that can feel. This podcast is making me scared.

Don't worry, we're just getting started. The island is still to this day heavily guarded. In an article from CBS News in 2012, microbiologist Marvin Grubman, who we all know and love obviously, friend of the show, explained the need for secrecy and the facility being heavily guarded, commenting on the fact that the threat of biological weapons has risen, especially in the post-9-11 world, and the American government does not want potential terrorists to be able to come to Plum Island and collect the virus to cause chaos. Yeah, of course. No shit. Makes sense. Yeah.

They just leave the front door open, basically. It's an anthrax rental service. Take it. While the work at the facility is perhaps appropriately primarily kept private, there have been specific scientific research conducted that has been made public eventually, and the PDAC, which is

which is that organization, often collaborates with universities and international organizations on certain projects which often result in publicly accessible scientific findings. This is all to say that yes, there is certainly research conducted at Plum Island on live pathogens, and there is certainly research that the US government certainly doesn't want released, but the fact that the facility is even known about and has provided public research for some subjects seems to speak in the favor of it existing primarily due to the national need to

to safeguard agricultural industries against foot and mouth disease. Yeah, that's kind of what I was saying. Like if there's a level four, that place would be real secret. Like if a facility is like,

completely unknown to us. I think that's where all the dodgy shit would be going down. Now that's not to say Plum Island wouldn't potentially work with BSL-4 stuff. It's more so just to say they don't regularly store it there and prefer...

perform thank you routine checks on it um but if there's like an outbreak or something a lot of these disease research centers will transfer over like during covid a bunch of places that have never worked with covid suddenly started working with covid right right so it's not to say this facility wouldn't uh you know convert to stuff that was like bsl4 it's just on the regular they are working like level three conditions um

And mostly, again, their primary concern is agricultural affected stuff, which is different than human killing agents. Less scary for us, you know?

Yeah, like foot and mouth disease is still scary. You can still get it, but it's more scary for what it does agriculturally than when you get infected. I think the government loves Plum Island due to the fact that it's kind of like a red herring. Everyone's so focused on it in terms of the conservatorial elements. Well, it's like Area 51, right? Yeah, it's like the Area 51 of this kind of thing. And so it's probably like way easier for the government to hide the actual facility where, you know, the actual dodgy shit goes down because everyone's just so focused on Plum Island. And plus, like, um...

Like the fact that, as you said, we know about Plum Island. We know it's there. We know it exists and stuff like that. That's a pretty big indicator that it's probably not a big deal. But that doesn't mean that things haven't gone wrong there and that doesn't fuel some theories, which is what we're getting into next. Yep. It's not all sunshine and pathogens at Plum Island. There have been accidents. Ha ha ha. Ha ha ha. Ha ha ha.

I like that one. That was a well-written one. Even working within the strict protocols required when working on one of the worst animal diseases possible, accidents, of course, happened. No matter how much you try to safeguard, you just cannot remove the human element from mistakes. In 1978, foot and mouth disease was exposed to cattle and holding pens, which was a fact admitted to by the Bush administration in 2008, 30 years later.

Staff were evacuated off the island and over 200 animals were killed due to the outbreak. Luckily, the outbreak did not make it to the mainland and was contained to the island, but alarm bells were raised internally and politically and the center shut down temporarily while safety and decontamination protocols were enforced. That's scary. Glad it's an island. Dude, I tell you what, like, talking to...

my wife and stuff about, because again, she works in disease research. It is incredible to me this stuff doesn't happen more often. Nowadays, there's so many technological safeguards for it. Just the idea that you have a facility with this many things that can carry diseases and this many people actively opening and working on diseases and that they don't cross-pollinate is incredible. Investigations were launched, but the results were not publicized.

They looked into finding a possible weakness in their protocols, possible equipment failures, or human error that may have caused the outbreak. It seemed that maybe the air filtration system or improper handling of the contaminated materials may have had a hand in the spread of the virus. A comprehensive review and overhaul was conducted on almost every single part of the facility and how the process was run.

tighter biosafety measures were introduced especially with decontamination processes and how contaminated materials were handled by scientists they had to get their theory boys in there to write some new SOPs to make sure their shit was fucking that would be scary imagine making a mistake and people die like a lot of people die that'd be crazy or just even making a mistake and your co-worker dies

Like, oh, you die. Like, you're handling some of the most dangerous things on the planet. Yeah. Imagine if making one of these videos, if the video didn't get enough likes, someone died or something. That'd be scary. Okay, Mr. Beast. You heard that. Write that down. Write that down. That's a good idea.

Tighter biosafety measures were introduced, especially with decontamination processes and how contaminated materials were handled by scientists. Money was invested in upgrading the infrastructure at the center, and the government increased its oversight to make sure that standards were being met. The frequency of audits and reports were increased, and this would not happen again. Dun, dun, dun!

But then it did happen again. That's what it did happen. The thing they said wouldn't happen happened. What? No. Government. Government. No, I trusted you. 50th time's the charm. I gave you 40 years.

There were two separate incidents in 2004, so it happened twice in 2004 alone, that created an accidental release of the virus, which happened through the containment systems. Luckily, it was contained to inside the building and did not reach the local wildlife or the mainland, but this again sent alarm bells ringing. It was only through daily routine checks and reviews that the pathogens were found outside of their containment areas, sending the lab into a lockdown. So...

So the checks, they're like, they didn't know that they released it. They found it because they checked. Yeah, they found it eventually. Like, how long had it been there for, maybe? That is really funny. That's what I mean. Like, you have these diseases that can leak out, like something gets infected and you don't know until you go, like, doing routine checks, right?

It could just be like in a crevice in a wall or something. And then they like, you know, swab the wall once every like year or something. And then they're like, holy shit, this pathogen has been here in this hallway for the entire time. In response, the U.S. Department of Agriculture and the Department of Homeland Security began a comprehensive look into the breaches, again, reviewing every detail about their safety protocols. Sorry, that little thing popped up and I immediately looked at it like a moth.

Their safety protocols and infrastructure to see if they could locate any weaknesses. It was decided that their system was no longer adequate for conducting this high-risk biological research and required immediate attention. Interesting. Interesting. Caleb's like my favorite person to have around. He just makes every situation more colorful. Yeah, I love it. He's trying his best.

I mean that completely unsarcastically. Just like tapping on a Google Doc and you're like, ooh, it's fine. I appreciate you. I saw it. It popped up. I was like, what's that? What is that? A bug or something? Let's see. Hillary Clinton, the New York Senator Senator

You guys can fire me if you'd like. It's fine. I'll be all right. No, no, no, you're good. Hillary Clinton, the New York Senator at the time, and Congressman Tim Bishop penned a letter to Homeland Security after these 2004 incidents. They said, we urge you to immediately investigate these alarming breaches at the highest levels and to keep us apprised of all developments. And then she says, Pokemon, go to the polls. Okay.

Yep, there's a few words in between those two, but that, in fact, is correct. That is real. Yeah, there's a... Yeah. Yep. There were also... Wait, wait, wait. The senator, Hillary Clinton and Congressman Tim Bishop, like their entire basis, the findings after the 2004 incidents, they basically just said...

yeah, we urge you to go check it out some more. Like that's, please. That's the extent. Yeah. Nicely. Yeah. Well, it's saying that the government, it wasn't just a matter for like disease research centers. Like two of the biggest people in politics were like, Hey, uh, fine.

Find out why this happened right now. Yeah, but aren't they the government? Can't they just do that? Why are they writing a letter to themselves? Because typically, well, Hillary Clinton doesn't go out there with a clipboard and then try to figure out how foot and mouth disease breached a contamination. Yeah, but she calls up the Homeland Security dude and is like, hey, sort this shit out. She's a senator. Aren't they meant to apply pressure? That's what this is.

Yeah, true, true, I guess. You're like, well, why doesn't Hillary Clinton contact Homeland Security and tell them to, I don't know, keep us surprised of all developments? That would be convenient if she did. She should be stricter with the letter. She should say, you need to do this. Not we urge you. She should end it, you're on thin ice. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Something. That would scare me a little bit. She should end it with a frowny face emoji at the very bottom. I think that would have been ahead of her time, to be honest. I would absolutely love if right now Hillary Clinton sent me a letter that was like, we urge you immediately to stop or quit or anything like that. My next video, it would be me shirtless in like a gladiator kilt with a spear. And I'd be like, meet me on the field of combat.

I think I'm going to be so misled, man.

that would be the greatest moment of my life I think can I come if that happens yeah you can watch I'm gonna get shot to death by every letter agency in the country at once but I'll do it yeah have you seen 300 that end scene where like Leonidas is alone on the battlefield and he gets hit with like a bajillion arrows that'll be me but it's like 80 snipers it'll be like my arms out like in the kilt like spear in my hand yeah

It's 338. You're getting just shot full of holes by Secret Service. Full of holes. But in my head, I know that Thermopylae is secured because of the Greek reinforcements and that I have found my destiny and the afterlife and my bloodline is secured. If Hillary Clinton sends me a letter, I am getting my wife pregnant and then I am walking to Washington, D.C. with the spirit.

Is Hillary Clinton in this situation just like sitting atop a golden chariot on the battlefield while all the USAIDs She literally looks like Xerxes from 300. She has like the giant nose rings and like the chains around her and stuff. And she's standing in front of the Washington Memorial like, oh, this could be yours if you delete your YouTube channel. Then I'll like throw a spear at her and get eviscerated. She's surrounded by Secret Service immortals.

Yep. But my wife's pregnant, so that means that my bloodline continues and I've secured my seat in Valhalla and I will die happy. Do I have permission to be your Herodotus and write about this firsthand? Of course. And I want you to wear an eyepatch when you do it. Oh, thank you, Isaiah. I really appreciate that. Um...

Where were we? There were also calls for this facility to be relocated as the infrastructure was aging and it overall posed a risk, posed a possible safety risk. But on the other side of the coin, its remote location was a natural barrier between the viruses they studied there and the public.

It makes sense to have that type of thing on a fucking island, to be honest. No, you should put it directly in the middle of New York instead. See what happens. That's what actually... There was a huge disease research facility in Washington, D.C. that had an outbreak.

Caused a massive lockdown. And it was a huge, huge national security threat there for a few weeks. It was with primates, I believe. And I forget which disease it was. But there was an outbreak and they were afraid it was going to wipe out a huge part of the population. When was this? Typically, it's a good idea to put these on the island. This was in the last 20 years, I think. Oh, okay. I was going to say, I don't remember that shit. I was too young. They were studying primates? It was primate research? Yeah. Monkeys in there.

That's what it is. Okay, so there was a primate quarantine facility in Reston, Virginia, which was about 15 miles away from D.C.,

And there was a series of BSL-4 agents. Hey, we understand what that is now. That were discovered at the primate quarantine facility, meaning there was a potential spread of them, which means that the disease had found some way to spread. And because they had now made their way into primates, they could probably pass into humans pretty easily. So it became this massive lockdown. Like...

My wife has met people who like worked in that whole thing. And it was like every research person in the country was suddenly working on that. Like send people there to quarantine, to lockdown, to test, figure out what's happening. Cause that's how like massive like plagues start up. So what happened to the monkeys? Uh, I mean, you know what happened to the monkeys? Oh, yeah.

Well, that's sad. Yeah. I thought maybe we could have cooperated with them to fix the situation peacefully. They were just as much risk as we were. And the monkey said, ooga booga, ooga booga. That's a good impression.

And then the same thing that I said was going to happen to me at Washington, D.C. with like the arrows. That's what happened to the monkey. Hillary Clinton was there, too. Yeah, it was. It was. It was also bullets. But yeah, much less. To make matters worse for Plum Island, the Government Accountability Office, a.k.a. GOW, published a report in 2011 criticizing the biosecurity measures at Plum Island.

The report cited poor maintenance, aging facilities, and the risk of pathogen release due to the inadequate infrastructure. Hey, look at that. At least they took accountability. That's not good. Oh. I mean, they wrote a report about how much they suck. That's kind of cool. Someone got paid for that.

Uh, Isaiah, tell me about the conspiracy theories. All right, now we are in my neck of the woods. Let's go. So a lab close. So everything we've said so far is factual, right? Yeah. Plum Island. Yes. Animal Research Center. And there was a breakout. Everything we said was facts. That caused a bit of a panic. So some stuff had been mishandled. Diseases got out, but it's like a public lab and people know about it, right? Yeah, but...

The lab closed off to the public with tight-knit government security, and it's all located on a remote island. Perfect recipe for a conspiracy theory. Plum Island has a few good ones that made it a Red Thread-worthy episode, so we're going to get into those. The first of which is Lyme disease. So probably one of the biggest conspiracy theories to come out of Plum Island is the creation of Lyme disease. Lyme disease is a tick-borne illness that is caused by the bacterium Borrelia...

causing redness, fever, headaches, tiredness, and in more severe cases, facial paralysis, arthritis, heart irregularities, and meningitis-like symptoms. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention have said that ticks usually need to be attached for three to four days for Lyme disease to develop, so removing the tick within 24 hours reduces the chances of Lyme developing.

Lyme disease is not actually diagnosed in Australia due to the government not believing that it can be acquired by Australian ticks, even though this is pushed back against by many charities and people who don't believe there isn't Lyme disease here. Look who's the safest country now. We just say that we don't have the diseases. Yeah, you know what our ticks aren't named? The paralysis tick. Yeah, ours are friendlier. Yeah, true.

For sure. Well, maybe, wait, Lyme disease causes paralysis though. So maybe they are like the same thing. No, no, no, no, no, no.

You're moving the goalposts, Jackson. You can cause facial paralysis and stuff. You're moving the goalposts, Jackson. That's completely different than an Australian paralysis tick. I mean, don't they only cause paralysis in dogs and stuff? Let me have a look. I don't know. I'm about to find out. The Australian paralysis tick, also known as Ioxodes holoculus. That's actually a really cool name. That's a dope name. That actually sounds like it would be like a Xerxes-style character. It does. In your fan fiction.

They may be found all year round. They're found in a variety of habitats across the humid coastal regions of eastern Australia, so the part where everyone lives. Yeah, wait, this is the same symptoms. These include flu-like symptoms, rashes, an unsteady gait, weak limbs, and partial face paralysis. Those are the symptoms. It's so much worse, though. You know the differences? This is the difference. Listen to me.

Our ticks have a chance sometimes to be infected with Lyme disease. And whenever one is found to be infected with Lyme disease, as we're reading about now, it is a huge deal that causes it. Like a huge research for everyone in the area to figure out where the source is and stop them. You have a native species that just does that all the time. Yeah. Yeah. But you also have... Like Lyme disease wasn't created. Well...

The conspiracy theory is a little weird, but let's say it's a naturally occurring thing. Hold on, hold on. No, no, no, no, no. That doesn't make any sense. That's like being like, oh, you have dogs? Dogs can carry rabies. We should sell this in the Coliseum. That's scary. Meet me at the Washington Monument.

That's way easier for you to get to than me. I need you oiled up with a knife come sundown. Can we meet someone in the middle like Hawaii? No. Hillary Clinton's not there. What kind of question is that? Yeah, she can't watch.

She can't watch for her skull. I want to be in a fight. And she's like, she's over there like in gladiator, like a walking Phoenix. She's got to show me a challenge. She like has a big chalice up there and stuff.

Why can't we join forces against Hillary Clinton? Why do we have to fight? That's not what this is about. See, now you're really moving the goalposts. This was about something greater than ourselves, and now you're trying to shift on what we're doing here, and I don't appreciate it. They both sound bad, I will say. They both sound bad. I'd rather not have either one. Yeah, again, okay, hold on. Do not do this middleman thing.

Caleb, remember where your loyalties lie, okay? You're right. I take back what I just said. I'd rather have loyalties.

If our tick, no, if our tick has Lyme disease, it is a big issue that we try to absolve and it's rare. You have a thing there that always does that all the time and everyone just accepts it. I'm reading a Wikipedia entry about it right now. It doesn't happen. It doesn't happen all the time. It's a potential symptoms. Yes. Yes. That is what.

It can do. I know that a majority of Lyme disease cases do go undiagnosed, though. Lyme disease was first diagnosed in Lyme, Connecticut, which is pretty close to Plum Island, less than a half an hour drive. One of the main fuels to the fire for this particular theory was first recognized in the 70s as well, which is when the main outbreak and accidental virus releases occurred at the facility at 1971 and 1978, respectively.

The fact that Plum Island has been involved with foreign and threatening animal diseases since its opening and has had several outbreaks has caused speculation regarding secret biological warfare experiments, possibly involving ticks. The center has extensive research activity on vector-borne diseases, which are diseases that are spread by insects.

So basically, you have this facility that does animal-borne illness research, and then Lyme disease suddenly appears nearby, leading people to think maybe it's something that was birthed from the facility. Right. I'm in on it. I'm in. I believe. Of course, many believe that Lyme disease was accidentally released from Plum Island, and that is how the spread of the disease began.

Possibly the center was experimenting with ticks or tick-borne diseases, and then these ticks escaped from the island by birds or other wildlife. All I can imagine are ticks sailing little boats across the river, which is probably true. What is a bird if not the boat of the air? I think they're called planes.

This is the more innocent and government-friendly theory, as a lot of people also speculate that the creation of Lyme disease was intentional, but the government wanted us to use it to incapacitate enemy forces or livestock. It's clearly no coincidence that Lyme disease started in Old Lyme and Lyme in Connecticut in 1975, shortly after the height of the Cold War in the 50s and 60s.

Clearly, this was a disease created in the labs to take out the commies through ticks, and it accidentally got out after the Cold War ended. Hmm, that is interesting. It is weird. I love that it was... It's curious. It kind of lines up.

It's no secret that we had theorized during World War II and stuff like that if diseases were viable to use against enemy forces. So, you know, who's to say we weren't? I mean, I completely 110% believe every single government probably was working on that kind of stuff in the early 50s and 60s, including America, obviously. No, we've never done anything wrong ever. Yeah, what are you talking about, dude?

But does that mean that they created Lyme disease and it got out then? So are they the creators of Lyme disease or was it just something that they were experimenting on that's a naturally occurring disease? No. Other than it just coming to existence and first being tested for coincidentally around the time that Plum Island was a thing. Yeah.

To be honest, I understand that there are ways for diseases, something about genome sequencing. You can create diseases within a lab setting, but there's also something about the tags, especially at the end of DNA or RNA strands that most of the time they can tell when something was manufactured versus naturally produced. Yeah.

But that also may just be because they can see the differences compared to regular strains versus lab-grown strains. Once we get into that level of like...

research tags or lab tags that can be detected on diseases that is past my pay grade I know it is a thing that can be told but I don't know how surefire the science is in a modern sense or was that even a thing back in like the 50s it had to be a little bit because they were doing like DNA sequencing and gene sequencing but it's not as advanced now you're saying the tags are purposely put there so they can be identified

uh that sometimes like things will be tagged to know but other times you can just like a another scientist can look at uh like a dna sequence and tell like where stuff has been edited and again i think that's comparing it to normal strands like they can look at it and be like yeah this wouldn't occur in nature it's been right to do xyz clearly edited yeah gotcha yeah

In Photoshop. But again, I don't know how surefire that would be if you were to go as far as make an own disease, if that's even feasible. Again, pass my pay grade. But I know it is science that does exist in some degree. Okay.

That was getting near the point in my biology courses when I dropped out. You were so close to being an expert on this. I was so close for this one podcast episode knowing I should have stuck around. She never dropped out. She never done YouTube full time. In a 1998 article in the New York Times, Closely Guarded Secrets, Some Islands You Can't Get to Visit,

It was reported that in 1993, a tabloid Newsday found previously classified documents that had talked of plans to disrupt the Soviet Union by spreading certain diseases to kill off their livestock and animals like horses. There was also one in particular, Rift Valley Fever, that can affect humans.

Officials say that all of this ended a long time ago and we and the Russians don't need to worry anymore. Thank God they said that. I feel better now. Yeah. As a show of good faith, Russian scientists even went to inspect the facility in 1994 to see if the research was still ongoing and concluded it wasn't, which was obviously very brave of them considering all the

It would have taken was a single Lyme disease ridden tick being placed in a briefcase for the American government to pull off one hell of a ballsy assassination. According to the government, the research into destabilizing the Soviet Union via certain diseases went on until 1969 when Richard Nixon ended the program. I believe that that Nixon would have ended it. He was he shut down a lot of stuff. The.

did he hate science like they were doing no uh nixon was just super anti like uh he was suspicious of the fed a lot of like the cia and things like that uh so he shut down a lot of their programs um so i could see that um also like in 1994 when they went to visit the soviet union was gone so like

Yeah, well, now it was Russian scientists. This was like 20 years after the Cold War. Well, the USSR ended in 91. So it's three years after that. But, like, the Cold War, it depends on your definition. The Cold War really never ended. Like, I mean, look where national tensions are now. But the USSR went away in 91. Okay. Yeah.

There's no evidence to link Lyme disease to Plum Island, and the bacteria has been in North America for a very long time. We're talking thousands of years. Yeah, so that's what I was saying. Yeah, so it's not... It's endemic.

The question is if it's like a strain that was being edited or manipulated there. Okay. Apparently, the first known evidence of Lyme disease was discovered in Otzi, a mummy over 5,300 years old in the Eastern Alps, which is a lot older than Plum Island.

On the counterpoint, it is entirely possible that the government fabricated evidence and framed the Oatsy Mummy of having Lyme disease to cover their tracks. Now we're talking. I'm back. I'm excited. You lost me in the line back. It was over, but now I'm back. I'm ready. Mrs. Madam Clinton, where are you at? I'm ready. Let's go. Where's that letter? Where's that letter? I'll ship out.

The center also does not research human pathogens that we know of, just animal ones mainly relating to livestock. Spread of Lyme disease is also in line with the natural behavior and ecology of ticks feeding on a variety of animals including rodents, birds, humans, and more.

The government has continuously denied involvement with creating or releasing Lyme disease, just reiterating that we have touched what we have touched on above, only researching animal diseases, not humans. But are we really going to just believe the government? No. No. I'm not. I refuse to. No, I'm fucking not. Yeah.

The theory really gained a wide audience due to a book released in 2004 by Michael Carroll called Lab 257, The Disturbing Story of the Government's Secret Plum Island Germ Laboratory. That's a good book title. That's a great title. That's so good. The book speculated about the research that happens at Plum Island, suggesting that Lyme disease escaped from the facility.

Many highly rate it. Many think it's rubbish, but it did propel the conspiracy theories around Plum Island into the limelight. Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha. Into the limelight with the book directly calling the facility a ticking time bomb. Another punch the back to back puns. I can't do it. I'm at my limit.

Those are like explosive forces. To be fair, I don't think, I think the first one is obviously a pun that was written Lime, L-Y-M-E. I don't think the second one was meant to be a pun. A lot of the overall mystery of Plum Island surrounds Building 257. Originally, it was said to store weapons. This changed after World War II.

It is one of the primary research buildings on the island and houses many highly contagious pathogens, meaning the precautions and protocols are tight, leading to an air of mystery around the building itself.

This particular building is the building referenced in the title of the book, Lab 257. I'm just trying to think. So 2004, the book releases, and that was around the same time that Hillary Clinton went on her crusade against Plum Island. Yep. So that was all connected. Was 2004 also the time of a big outbreak with Plum Island? I think it was. Yeah, there was two back-to-back events. I don't think they escaped the island, but... No, but it was like, yeah, it was big.

Big news then. Yeah. So is it possible that this book kind of just like released to capitalize on all of that kind of stuff and then just... I don't know if he could write a book that quickly and publish it that quickly. How long is this book? Stephen King does. Yeah, but he just makes shit up. Yeah, but that's also cocaine. Well, so does this guy. Well, this guy at least had to do some research. And cocaine. Yeah, a little cocaine research. This is... How many pages is this?

289. I feel a strange sense of deja vu. We're going to talk about Operation Paperclip. We're not going to recap Operation Paperclip because we talked about it last week. You can check out the previous episode, episode 39, if you want more details about what those wily Nazis and the American invitations and citizenships they received on your taxpayer money was all about. That's the last episode. This specific theory surrounds a man named Dr. Eric Traub.

who himself was a former Nazi scientist, Eric studied at the Rockefeller Institute for Medical Research located in New Jersey in the 1930s, where he worked and studied viruses and vaccines. Eric specialized in animal diseases and biological warfare, working at Rime Island located at the Baltic Sea.

It was this island where the Nazis researched some of their most concerning biological weapons. Much like the accusations towards Plum Island paint, Reims Island was not only a center for research into agricultural diseases, but it also became a location where the Nazi regime studied biological and chemical warfare during the Nazi era. Here's a who's who of the nasty chemical and bacterial diseases heavily researched at Reims Island.

Anthrax. You know it, you love it. The deadly bacterial infection that can be utilized as a biological weapon against enemy forces and civilian populations. It also affects both humans and animals. So it's a very versatile way of waging war. Yeah. Best known for like the anthrax scares. If you guys remember that, of course you do. That was huge. People would know it from that.

Rinderpest, a viral disease affecting cattle and other cloven-hoofed animals, and the Nazis were particularly interested in how they could weaponize it to destabilize foreign industry.

Then we have Glanders. Never heard of this one. What's Glanders? A bacterial disease affecting horses that can also affect humans. The Nazis had a fascination with this one because humans were still reliant on our horse friends back in World War II as a part of military logistics. Then we have Plague and Typhus, which is the Nazis veered off course here and started ad-libbing research on things that weren't even remotely animal disease based at their animal disease facility. That's never a good sign.

And then, of course, foot and mouth disease, that old chestnut. It's no mere coincidence that Rim Island and Plum Island were researching the same disease. I mean, Rim and Plum also kind of sound the same and look the same. Yeah, there's so many parallels between... You put it that way. There's so many parallels between Rim and Plum Island. They're basically the same goals. And then this guy, Eric Traub, is basically hired by the US during Operation Paperclip to kind of consult at Plum Island after the Nazi...

regime ended so yeah potentially like plum island is run by nazis like many other nazi scientists eric was brought to america by the u.s government under operation paperclip and his valuable skills made him an asset for america during the cold war apparently he visited plum island a number of times to see what they were doing and give advice but he turned down a permanent position there

That's right. Not only were the Nazis invited to become citizens in America, but they also had the audacity to turn down jobs they didn't want. What he was directly involved in. That's funny.

What he was directly involved in is a bit murky and his name doesn't appear to be directly correlated to official projects there, but some believe that he added to the development of biological warfare defense strategies at Plum Island or was even involved in the experiments with ticks which may have contributed to the supposed creation of Lyme disease. If this is true, that means that Eric Trobe, a

a Nazi made American by the American government may have created Lyme disease, which has now affected millions of Americans due to the rumored Lyme disease outbreak in the 70s. Jesus, if that's true, what do you think about that, Isaiah? Do you think there's any kind of basis to that? Honestly, no. Oh, come on. That's so catchy. You're right. You're right. You're right. Shut up. Shut up. Shut up. Shut up. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. I actually believe it.

I'm furious that the same organization that tries to keep us safe, tries to keep us out of harm's way, and then lies to us about the truth of Operation Paperclip, not only funded and administered, but covered up one of those Nazis building a disease to hurt their own people, and then to this day won't admit it. I think that is an affront to God. That's wrong. That's what I think.

We should round him up, tar and feather him. That's wrong. We should get him in the streets. Well, I can't. I've made too many jokes about Hillary Clinton. I can't keep doing the bit. You're actually going to be assassinated. Again, the book Lab 257, The Disturbing Story of the Government's Secret Plum Island Germ Laboratory brought a lot of attention to this theory. The author alleges that Eric was very involved in the secret experiments conducted at Plum Island, but does not provide any evidence to prove this.

This period of time was shrouded in mystery and secrets laying the perfect foundation for a conspiracy theory such as this. But there is no documentation or evidence to prove Eric contributed much of the research happening at the island. But I mean, come on, it's too perfect. It's it's it's it lines up too much. They were doing research. This guy was doing research at Rims Island on this exact thing, foot and mouth disease, as well as other diseases, which, of course, that's what those facilities are for.

But then they hire him and bring him to Plum Island and then an outbreak happens like that same year or the same period of time. Just say you believe it. Strange. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I believe it. Yeah. I mean. Yeah. That happened. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think I believe it. That happened. Yeah. That...

All I know is this fucking Montauk monster looks scary as shit. Can I read this part? Yeah, go for it. Dude, found ashore in July 2008 on a beach strangely near the business district of Montauk in New York. The Montauk monster has been heavily speculated to be a byproduct of Plum Island.

speculated by who who's been speculating by me keep reading okay right we still don't know what the creature is at first some believed it might be a turtle without a shell but turtle spines are actually fused to the shell so it couldn't be that maybe a raccoon the legs are too long dude what is that

It's got a beak, doesn't it? It looks like it has a fucking beak. It'll get there. The Montauk monster is a classic cryptid. I'm very familiar with this little felt. It'll get there. Maybe a dog or coyote? The eyes and feet aren't right. Well, what the fuck is it? An overgrown Lyme disease tick? That's pretty good. I

I like that. This speculation has fueled theory by Isaiah Windigoon that the Montauk monster is some sort of creature that came from Plum Island. This theory suggests that secret genetic or biological experiments on animals were being conducted resulting in this strange, deformed animal unable to be identified.

It seems to have features that can be connected to lots of different animals, bringing up the possibility that it is a chimera, a hybrid or a mutant animal. Interesting. The body eventually mysteriously disappeared and some anonymous residents claimed that someone took it. We don't actually know what happened to it or if it was real. The picture went viral at the time, gaining traction on major news platforms. Without the body to perform an autopsy, the identity of the creature will remain unknown. So it was a hoax. Okay, I see.

Well, hold on. It shows up. Someone posted about it. And then later, after it became a big deal, they asked why it was in the body. And it was like, oh, I don't know. We didn't pick it up. So just like, you know, got eight, you know, carried away, whatever. It looks...

Very, very similar to, and it's very sad to say because I love raccoons, but the way raccoons look after they've been left in water for a long time when they die. Yeah, it's all bloated. Because they decompose around the edges and all of the hair falls out. So it's like a waterlogged raccoon corpse. Probably. Assuming it's not just a hoax, but like body structure wise, it's pretty raccoon shaped.

Yeah, I was wondering about, so the limbs are like white, really white, and then there's like bruising around the body, and that's clearly like bloating then. It looks like a cat slash raccoon skull too. Yeah. So Isaiah, what's the beak though? Is that just the skull peeking through from decomposition? That is, so like when you look at raccoon skulls, they've got like this little like...

front little like where their two front teeth come down. I think it's just that but like it's lost some of the top teeth or something. So yeah it is like skull peeking through. Yeah could just be the image too. The conclusion is that it was a raccoon with its upper jaw missing. So basically that's like a break a break in the skull. That's what it looks like. Looks kind of cute honestly.

I mean, yeah, if you imagine him with fur and, you know, not decomposing, he's probably a cute fella. Little guy. Yeah, Raccoon's super cute. It's an experiment by the government that they're using to take our country back from us and give it to the invaders. So that is their super killer. We gotta kill more of them. What was that?

I'm proud to be an American. What'd you just sing? Oh, nothing. I just went... I love that song. Lee Greenwood.

Next to you.

How did we get here? What even caused that? The Montauk monster? I just started talking about how this was designed to take our jobs or something stupid. Usually I can tell where it comes from. That one lost me completely.

Hey, man. Just having fun out here. For me, it was the best decision. And for Jackson, it was the worst decision to make Caleb the co-host on the show. It just multiplied me by like a factor of 10. Yeah. That's funny. Who wants to take us out? You take us out. Alright, I'll take us out.

The United States Homeland Security has been building a new national bio and agro defense facility located in Manhattan, Kansas. This means the Plum Island will officially begin the slow process of closing, reportedly continuing to be fully functioning until December of this year. Many employees at the island have been transferred to Kansas where the equipment is state-of-the-art and their decontamination and safety protocols are high.

No Lyme disease outbreaks are expected to occur for at least another 10 years. There's now a vigorous hiring process that ensures Nazi employees will be kept to a minimum. HR has taken over. Okay, so that was a joke. I was like confused there for a second. No Lyme disease outbreaks are expected to occur for at least 10 years. Like they planned it out. Okay, yeah, yeah.

Yeah, it was a joke. That leaves the island and what to do with it up in the air. The idea was floating around that it should be auctioned off, and environmental advocates and officials are wanting for it to be instead preserved. Besides the research facilities, the island is untouched, and there are hundreds of plants and animals living happily on the island. One thing's for sure, a lot happened at Plum Island, and a lot of it was not great.

A quote from Dr. Companion. That sounds like a dandy character's name. That can't be a real name. Dr. Companion, a scientist who previously worked at Plum Island. Quote, the history of Plum Island is the history of biosafety. It has been serving as a frontline defense for the country since the 1800s. This has always been the people's island, but we've been using it to protect them. We're very proud of the work that we've done here. End quote. They sound like a cult.

Yeah. What was the but about? Like, we've... I thought it was going to go a different direction. This has always been the people's island, but... We've been using it to protect them. Well, I think you're saying, like, this has always been the people's island, but you're not allowed to come here because it's actually used to protect you. It's for their own good. Yeah, that whole thing. Yeah.

Alright, so what do you guys think? Any kind of conspiracies that you actually believe about the island now? Or is that just still... I don't think you guys believe it. I feel like you're just saying it to make me feel better. Because I actually do... I do think... No, I don't think so. I don't think the Montauk, or whatever the fuck it's called, the Montauk monster...

I think Isaiah's right with that one. That's probably a raccoon. But I think the government was actually doing some pretty shady stuff there, potentially, during the 50s and 60s. Yeah, I mean, I think that, but has it resulted in any real-world consequences? Probably not.

Yeah, I don't know if... So as far as I would go is, yeah, again, I think maybe they were fucking around with Lyme disease and then it got out. It's just so strange that Lyme is right next to Plum Island, literally where they first started testing or where they first found the outbreak of Lyme disease is literally right next to Plum Island. That seems like a weird coincidence to me. Yeah, there's a lot of really strange shit for sure. All right, Isaiah? Yeah.

Anything from you? Yeah, I think it's pretty standard. If it was anything super secret, like government top dog, we never would have heard about it, right? I mean, look at the stuff we do know about now in hindsight, like Operation Paperclip or stuff like that. We don't know where or how they're doing that until 30 years later. It's the fact we've always known about Plum Island, the fact that Plum Island has been the place to do disease research that

That means that is not the place they're going to do secret disease research, right? Yeah, true. But is that like, wait, we didn't know about it back in the 60s, though, did we? To the extent that we do now, it was only like in 2004 when Hillary Clinton went on her anti-plum crusade. No, no, we've always known it's there. That's always been a forefront of disease research.

Because it's like a place people apply to and get jobs at and stuff like that. They're not like inducted into it. Hillary went on her tirade when something went wrong there because that made people weary of it. Um,

Sure, there's been some government negligence that's led to issues there, but give me one branch of government that hasn't had a series of negligence that has caused problems. It's just a lot more noticeable when instead of losing the mail or something, it is releasing hand and foot disease. So you think the facilities where they actually fuck around with anthrax, for example, or whatever, the actually dangerous places...

They're places that we don't know about at all. Oh yeah. Absolutely. I mean like, dude, look, look during world war two and ever the Manhattan project was going on. Yeah. They were developing like uranium to be used in bombs underneath like football fields in Oak Ridge, Tennessee. Like it was just places you never, ever would have thought of. Uh,

that we only find out later. So the fact that we know about Plum Island immediately discredits it as being a conspiracy. Exactly. When we decommissioned all the nuclear missile silos that we had stored up in the Cold War, it was on random people's farms in the middle of Nebraska. No one would ever think to look there, right? Yeah, that kind of thing's everywhere. So I would say that the fact that Plum Island's the place you go for diseases means that's not the place they're going to build the super secret deadly ones, if they are. Yeah.

And I think a million percent they absolutely were during the Cold War and probably there's no doubt in my mind if the government finds out about a secret disease that could be weaponized, they're not doing it for quote unquote defensive capabilities or whatever, right? No, they're figuring out how to weaponize it first.

If they do the same thing with nuclear weaponry, if they do the same thing with chemical weaponry, if they do the same thing with pyro weaponry, then of course they're going to do the same thing with biological weaponry, right? So it stands to reason it's somewhere, but Plum Island's probably not it because it's too high-biz. Now, was maybe the people of Plum Island working on something like Lyme disease and then it got out? Because we know that stuff like...

Hand and foot disease got out because there were just cows there. What if there was just a tick there at Plum Island that got Lyme disease and that started the outbreak? Very possible, but I don't think it was on purpose. Because again, if we're under the impression, if you do want to say Plum Island is building these super secret things, okay, then why would they leak something as negligible as Lyme disease? Like sure, it's serious, but it doesn't wipe out a population. Why would they leak that if they have much, much bigger things on their hands instead?

What was the conspiracy that they intentionally leaked it? I thought it was more so that they were fucking around with Lyme disease and then it just got out. Well, there were two. Remember, there was the accidental leak theory and then they were trying to...

take out people's theory yeah yeah um but yeah i think that's if it did come from there it was definitely accidental i would yeah i agree with that i agree with that i don't think they intentionally did it there's nothing to gain from that uh yeah it's just like oh our super secret government facility what if we have a little funsies what if we use some of it out for funsies yeah yeah but plus if they were going to test it on a if they were going to test it on you know people they wouldn't do it right next to where the facility is correct immediately yeah

I know the super secret lab let's test in the front yard they'll never know that makes sense let's make a creature and let it wash up on shore alrighty that's going to do it for this week's episode of Red Thread thank you very much for joining us I got to go back to you know shoring up my house to protect from all the animals that are coming to kill me now so I got to get on the defensive thank you very much for watching and we'll see you next time sounds good fellas see y'all

See you. See y'all. Bye. Stay safe from Australia.