04: The Mothman | Red Thread
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The year is 1967. It's a cold December evening, indeed the kind of cold you still feel deep in your bones even from within the relative comfort of your car. You find yourself traveling across a bridge, a slender thread of steel spanning over the Ohio River below, connecting West Virginia and Ohio. Officially, it's called the Point Pleasant Bridge, but the locals call it the Silver Bridge.

You've just left the office, your tired eyes straining against the setting sun. It's getting dark, but as you drive across the bridge, a sudden glimmer arrests your gaze.

This time, it's not the glint from the silver paint that gives the bridge its name. You see a spectral figure perched on the bridge above with something almost resembling grace, its silhouette shackled by the winter sun setting behind it. Large ornate wings frame it, giving it an otherworldly visage. Its eyes, like twin embers, pierce your soul to the point of near hypnosis. They bring with them a local story from earlier in the year, it immediately surging into your mind as your eyes lock. The Mothman.

You feel compelled to leave. Your heart, or at least what feels to be your heart, thrums a frantic rhythm as you push your car forward faster. What feels to be your heart? What else would it be? Like Tony Stark? You're going to find out in a second. You're going to find out what this drumming motion is. You know the story. Come on. It pushes your car forward faster, as fast as the pedal will allow. No sooner... I'm just laughing at what you just said. I didn't realize you brought Tony Stark into it.

He made a reference. There it goes. First one of the episode, boys. It's just a wild thing to say, or at least what feels to be your heart. I know what you're getting at, but I just love that statement. It was so funny how the moment Charlie said something, Jackson was like, what? What? I knew it was coming. I just wanted to know what sentence it would be that triggered him.

No sooner do your wheels cross the threshold of the far shore than the world shudders. The thrum you felt now has sound, a cacophonous dirge as the silver bridge succumbs to a tragic destiny.

In your rearview mirror, the Mothman's prophecy unfolds. Metal and humanity entwine as the bridge collapses into the relentless river below. You hit the brakes and sit for a moment in solitude with your thoughts amidst the chaos and image of the unlucky cars that tragically fell with the bridge that carried them, grappling with the questions that immediately echo in your mind. Was the Mothman a guardian angel or a harbinger of calamity?

That's what we aim to find out in this week's episode of The Red Thread, the show where we explore all manner of interesting mysteries this world has to offer. I'm talking cults, conspiracies, cold cases, and yes, even cryptids. We discuss them all. My name's Jackson, and I'm joined by my fellow co-host Isaiah.

and Charlie. And this episode of The Red Thread is kindly brought to you all by the fine folks at Athletic Greens and HelloFresh. You'll be hearing from them later on in the show. And we're just so thankful for their support as well as your support for tuning in and listening to the show. So guys, how are you guys doing today?

Pretty good. I woke up a little groggy this morning. What felt like my brain had a bit of mist around it. Now I'm waking up a little bit and I'm getting excited because I know a lot about Mothman. Probably more about Mothman than I did Goatman, actually. Oh, really? Yeah, I'm super familiar with Mothman. I watched a couple documentaries on him, actually. But you're the self-professed Goatman expert. So what would that make you about Mothman? What's a level up from expert?

A mothman enthusiast. No, no, no. That's way less. That's less. A mothman... I don't know. Academics. Mothman scholar, perhaps? What is believed to be a scholar. Yeah. Oh, yeah.

Moth, I'm super stoked for this. Big fan of Mothman. Mothman's one of the few cryptids that I've actually been to the location of. I spent a couple days in Point Pleasant, West Virginia with some friends, and it was a great time. We snuck around the TNT area and all that, so...

I also feel adequate in this. Maybe not so much a scholar, as Charlie says, but I feel pretty good about it. So you're the enthusiast, Charlie's the scholar, and I'm just the... I'm the audience member right here, because I really... Like, I knew the symbols of Mothman going into this, because it's very hard to ignore Mothman. He's like one of the most prevalent cryptids to have ever existed, really.

like he's right up there um so i know the basics of him but yeah i i don't know all the intricacies that a scholar and an enthusiast would know so i am very excited to get into this to kind of dig whatever i can out of you guys because i'm sure you have a lot to share

Yeah, I think he's really interesting. I'll also get this spoiler out of the way right now. He's kind of like an anti-hero cryptid, which is very rare. We'll get into it a bit later, but he's not like a categorically evil presence to everybody in the area, which is interesting. Yeah, I definitely note that later in the document. By the way, if you're at home, you can read the show notes for each of the episodes that

in the description of the videos. I noted that it's interesting because Mothman isn't ever portrayed as aggressive, really. He doesn't have an aggressive kind of attitude. It's more so people just stumble across him and he flies away, tries to escape, and then they take it as a bad omen. He is the bad omen cryptid. If cryptids were classified as Pokemon, that's what he would be. He would be the bad omen cryptid, I think.

Thank you. That was a pop culture reference from you this time. From Jackson, yeah. Wow, look at you. You're rubbing off on me. Next thing you know, you'll be a scholar. Look at that.

I'll go through my metamorphosis. No, they're like the cryptic community has a habit of like taking creatures and then making them like, oh, a cutesy little like a friend of nature type thing. And I think it started with Mothman or at least that's the one that's most common done with. Like, I can't think of anyone who knows Mothman who treats it like a scary monster. It's always like, oh, the big guy who flies around the woods. So, yeah, he's definitely seen as like benevolent to most people.

Yeah, almost whimsical in some of the other accounts, which is kind of cute. Yeah. Very charming, definitely. Not something to be scared of. Like...

We'll get into it very shortly with kind of the first sightings of Mothman, but there was an interesting anecdote about how someone came across Mothman, like one of the first few sightings, and then instead of... Like, they fleed first. They fled first. And then they thought about it for a moment, and then they were like, hey, wait a minute. No, I want to see that. I want to see more of that. So they went back to the scene to try to find Mothman because they were that intrigued by it. So it's not something like...

People want to go out and find Mothman more, I think. Well, at least they did back then. That's the most, like, me and the boys thing ever. It's like we see a monster, and then we, like, get to hyping ourselves up. Like, we can take it. We'll get it this time. Now we know what to expect. It got us by surprise, but now that it's a fair fight. It's kind of like us playing Lethal Company that one time. Like, you go into the factory once. You get a side of the scary monsters. You get scared.

And then afterwards it kind of loses its impact and you're fine with going back in for more. And then for us, it just becomes like, yeah, we can show them. We'll be fine. And then you get a jet pack and it's all over. So...

Alright, so do one of you want to describe the goth man? The goth man? The moth man? Give a description of the moth man for the people at home because I'll throw it up on screen as well, but I feel like words are probably good for a podcast. Which depiction though? Because they do change based on eyewitness accounts. The most classic one is the one that the statue is made after. Would you have a picture of him here? They kind of make him look like some kind of Power Rangers villain almost. He's

He's giant steel. He's got red eyes and he literally looks like something you would see out of a cartoon. So a lot of accounts have him look more haunting, kind of like almost Batman-esque in the night and you can never really get a good view of him. But the one they put a statue up of is like the more, I guess I'd say more like...

jolly version of Mothman. Like the hero version. Yeah, where he looks like something to not really fear all that much. You describe that face as jolly? I'd say it's kind of jolly. He's got inviting red eyes. The picture you have here has a dog on it, so it makes it even more inviting. We're talking about the statue, not the dog, Charlie. I don't know if you knew that. Yeah.

Yeah, I just feel like this isn't, like, as far as cryptids go, this isn't one you'd be afraid of. If you saw it, you'd be like, oh, that's a very interesting looking little guy. It's contextual, though. Like, if I was in this, like, pleasant looking, uh,

environment where the statue is, sure, and it was daytime, but you put that son of a bitch in the dark forest at night and all you can see is his fucking abs peeking through the forest leaves and his bright red eyes, I'd be terrified. This one has the more humanoid shape to him where it looks more like he's wearing a moth mask than an actual moth man. Yeah. Most depictions of him are more...

like simplistic I guess where he's kind of like a black shape with these huge red eyes and then a lot of them have the depiction that his arms and wings are one you know like he spreads his wings out like a bat sort of

Whereas ones like this, it's like he has human arms and then wings behind him. Typically the common stuff is that he's like a fuzzy, like six to eight foot tall creature covered in fur. He has large wings, glowing red eyes, and like other details of his appearance vary beyond that. But that seems to be the through line across it all. Yeah.

Yeah, it's like a... It is basically like a moth that is humanoid to some degree. Like, the head is usually, like, very small. There's no... I think there's no neck most of the time. It's just, like, the head is attached directly to the torso at the top. And then it's just, like, very piercing red eyes. That's always the main focal point that people point to in their eyewitness testimonies is just the bright red eyes,

Is that something that moths have, by the way? Do they have bright red eyes? So that's a Mothman exclusive. Okay. Interesting. Choosing to call it Mothman is kind of funny. Because I know it appears at night and has wings, but...

Like, I guess Batman was taken. That's why they went with Mothman. That's exactly why it was called Mothman. It was dubbed the Mothman by the press after the Batman show was popular on TV at the time. I'm not sure why they specifically chose Moth because I don't really get Moth vibes from him from how he's portrayed, really. No.

That is very 60s, though. Like, they see a creature in the woods, it's like, oh, it's like that DC comic you hear. Well, I guess it's more like 20s or 30s, but it's West Virginia. Yeah, it's exactly what Stan Lee would do at Marvel, basically. Like, he sees an item in the room and he's like, that's Chairman, or whatever. Yeah. Pretty much.

Yeah, so that's what Mothman basically looks like, the characteristics. Like Charlie said, there are some different eyewitness accounts that kind of differ on certain elements. Like there are some certain accounts which claim that he has dark brown or grayish skin instead of just all fuzz. And of course, the statue that is in Point Pleasant

more exaggerated and hero-like in my opinion. Like he is a Greek Adonis almost. He's got like a six pack abs, giant pecs, like nice firm muscles and stuff like that. He's also got a very good butt. Yeah.

A nice thick butt. I made sure to include this. I'll put this on the screen. Hopefully YouTube doesn't have a problem with it, but I'll put it on screen. Yeah, they really rendered out his ass cheeks for everyone to enjoy. I think that's a funny decision from the statue maker to be like, no.

I know what I must do. You gotta give him a good keister. My wife grabbed it, that's the first thing she did when she saw the statue, so. Oh really? Yeah, I guess it attracts people. Like a moth to the flame, so to speak. That's another thing that I think differs Mothman from actual moths, I don't believe moths have arses like that. I don't think they do.

Yeah, I think you're right as well. As far as anatomy, I haven't expected a moth lately, but I'm pretty sure. Imagine if they were flying around caked up. Yeah, but that's essentially what Mothman looks like. He's like a humanoid, furry creature.

winged thing that flies through the air six to eight feet tall like Isaiah said and and again just the glowing red eyes I think that is really the most defining characteristic that people point to the most is the glowing red eyes so let's get into the first sightings um November 12th

is the first sighting that I was able to find from 1996 in Clendon in West Virginia. Have you been there, Isaiah? I have, yeah, yeah. Most of the... So that's like...

It's in West Virginia, but it's outside of it. The more popular Mothman sighting was, of course, the one in Point Pleasant or just outside of Point Pleasant. So I've been through Klandinen, but I don't think I did any touristy stuff there, if there is any. I'm familiar with, again, I'm familiar with the Point Pleasant stuff, but yeah, I've driven through Klandinen.

Yeah, so from what I could determine, this was the first canonical sighting of Mothman, but it wasn't the first reported sighting. And I'll get into that in a second. So this first sighting of the Mothman is believed to be by Kenneth Duncan on November 12th, 1966. Duncan and four other men were digging a grave for Kenneth's father-in-law, Homer Smith, in the Clendonan Cemetery. Duncan saw a figure that was human-like flying out of the surrounding woods and it glided over their heads, basically.

And the other men that day apparently did not see the creature. So it was only Kenneth Duncan that, that spied the elusive Mothman. And he discussed it with his friends, but they didn't report it until other people had also reported seeing Mothman. So it's,

It's unsure to me if this was an actual sighting or if they, or if Kennedy Duncan, uh, Kenneth Duncan just saw all the, like, you know, press, uh, you know, the, the articles in the paper that came out later and like kind of jumped on it, you know, cause it,

It wasn't the first reported sighting. It was just... Yeah, yeah. Yeah, it could have influenced what he thought he saw. It could have just been a really big bat, which, if I remember correctly, in West Virginia, like in this general area, you have it... Well, you don't have it. You didn't make this graph, but it's labeled the Mothman Triangle. If I remember correctly, there is a lot of bat activity in those general areas. So it could have just been a really big bat. It could be a bunch of different animals. That's one of my main theories, is that it was an animal instead of...

in most of these sightings because um like most of the sightings are like of the of the mothman up above gliding over them which is yes what bats do which is ironic because uh they could have called it batman then if if that's the direction they wanted to go with it that yeah but that would have been awful for seo you know true yeah it wouldn't have been optimized yeah it would have dc would have absolutely oh yeah true

Alright, so yeah, that was the first canonical sighting. Do you guys know about that one, or was that new to you guys? I've heard of it before. I've normally heard it described as, like, after the sighting occurred, there were people who were like, yeah, that's kind of like that thing I saw last week. Yeah, exactly. Kind of like anecdotal

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, to be fair, if you like, if you were out grave digging, which is a weird detail, but if you were out grave digging and then like a giant bird flew over you and like you told your friend and then three days later, someone's like, there's a giant moth thing right up the road. You'd be like, huh?

Wait a minute. Yeah, maybe that was it. Yeah. Yeah, you're absolutely right, for sure. Yeah, I'm not trying to insinuate good old Kenneth Duncan here was being nefarious in his reporting or anything like that. Maybe he truly believed that he saw the same thing that was then reported by other people later on in the week. Well, you might be too afraid to, but I'll call him a liar to his face. I think Kenneth Duncan made that shit up and he's a clout chaser trying to capitalize off Mothman. Hey, he'll dig a grave for you next. Be careful.

That's true. What happened to his father-in-law? We don't know, but he was digging that grave for some reason, right? Yeah, we'll have to get Jackson on that case. His father-in-law's last words were, I don't believe in Mothman. How Mothman was used to cover up a murder.

Which I think we talked about that in the Goatman episode. We like, sorry, we didn't. Charlie accused that professor of killing those people and then blaming it on Goatman. Came out of nowhere as well. Yeah, yeah. So this is the same thing. This is the second episode where we're starting to accuse just normal people of killing people on behalf of a cryptid. So we're on a good streak.

It's just important we keep all doors open, of course. As long as they endanger my life. As long as one of you two are in danger and I'm fine, I agree. I think so. I think that makes the most sense. For the longevity of the podcast. Sure, I'll run it. Don't worry, boys. It's okay. Yeah, you'll be doing it on your own eventually. So, the first reported...

let's say uh sighting of it of of mothman came from roger and linda skyberry as well as steve and mary mallette and this was in an area called the tnt area in point pleasant the tnt area has a bit of a reputation now for being mothman's local haunt and what the tnt area is maybe actually you you should go into this wendingen because i feel like you've been there

Yeah, it's, uh, so during World War II, it was, I've heard some people say it was like a place where the military made ammunition. Others said it was just a storage for ammunition, but it was basically like a depot, uh, during the war. Um,

And nowadays it's like a nature preserve and it's actually pretty cool because the old like bunkers and storage units are there. Most of them are locked up so that people don't get stuck down there at night or whatever. But it's pretty cool because you can see the old domes and stuff like that.

But at the time, it was like a known place for like teenagers to go hang out, smoke weed, you know, the kind of stuff teenagers in the 60s get up to. But it's it's outside of town in the middle of a tree line. And it's all of these like quiet, secluded areas. So naturally, it's the kind of place you'd expect stories like this to start to pop out of.

Yeah. Especially, and it's like Goatman again, especially, um, when like teenagers are involved, as you said, like if it's a teenage local haunt or local area where they hang out a lot, those kinds of stories emanate a lot from those kinds of places. I think, um,

And so, yeah, the TNT area, it's now called the McClintic Wildlife Management Area. So like a wildlife reserve, basically. And it's a bunch of igloos, I heard them described as, like mini bunkers where they stored all the TNT and stuff like that during World War II, as you said. And so this group of individuals, I don't know how old they were at the time, but they were young people.

on the younger side most stories i heard here place them as like uh high schoolers uh that would make sense maybe early college like 17 18 so they claimed that they were driving through the area and suddenly the group saw bright red eyes in the distance looking closer they saw a tall humanoid figure standing at around seven feet tall with folded wings and no neck walking away from the road

And then they sped off in the car. Roger, who was driving, turned onto Route 62 and they saw on the pavement the same creature again. It spread its wings and jumped into the sky. I guess like a superhero launch, basically. Like just catapulted into the sky and flew over the top of their car where they heard a loud, high-pitched screech. Kind of like...

I heard it described as like a mouse screaming. I don't know what that sounds like, but that's what I heard it described as. Yeah, so they heard that when the mothman flew over the top and then

and then they sped off, basically fleeing the scene. And then later they went to the Mason County Sheriff's Office once they went back. They did go back to confirm it, that they saw him, and they saw him again in the field or something like that. And then they went back to the Mason County Sheriff's Office and reported the encounter to the Deputy Millard Halstead, who then returned to the TNT area with the group

but noted nothing unusual except for a strange static sound coming from the radios as well as some strange shadows and an unexplained dust cloud.

I'm not sure what the dust cloud means. It's like Jeepers Creepers. Why the fuck would he note a dust cloud? He was just being thorough. He also, you know, made note that a couple of the trees had their bark torn off or something like really trivial. He's painting a picture. It's the best investigator Point Pleasant ever saw.

I mean, he is. It would be funny, though, if it was like a comedic like Tasmanian Devil Dust Cloud, like right next to them. And he's like, that's suspicious. Anyway, let's move on. Also, after this, Linda Scarberry was treated for shock after the incident and experienced unnerving phone calls as well as intimidating visits from the men in black asking her about the night and telling her not to spread what happened.

Not sure of the validity of that accusation or story, but... Yeah, that's just part of the story around it. Yeah. Yeah. Linda Scarberry also claimed to often hear disembodied noises, and she claimed to see items moving by themselves, which she attributed to a poltergeist, which is further evidence of her fragile mental state, really.

Yeah, I think like a lot of people accuse... Oh, I mean that's Mothman. Yeah, yeah. A lot of people... I don't think that's Mothman. Yeah, you turned into a dust cloud and came to her house just to move shit around. Every day there's just like a whirlwind in her living room just destroying stuff.

I think like one of the reasons the story has so much validity and caught on is because these were like four teens who were like freaked out enough that it got the local police to investigate. And over their entire life, to my knowledge, they never said like, oh, it was a joke. Oh, it was a hoax. Like they all...

Fully dedicated that they saw something. Yeah, they stuck to their stories, which I think is what gave the legend a lot of validity early on. Yeah, early on, definitely. Like, at that time, for it to make the newspapers, the local newspapers, and also, like, the police to do a semi-investigation into it and to take them seriously, I think that did lend a lot of validity to the story.

to their story and probably made people like second look at it. Also what gave them a bit of validity in my eyes is that they all, like you said, they stuck to the same story. Even during the police interviews, they had written statements with the police and all of them were exactly the same. Like they, they had taken the written statement separately, like in different rooms at the police station and all of the facts remained the same across all four written statements. So there were no like,

No lies being spread between the individuals. They all had the same story at the end of the day. But I will say that once you incorporate weed into the matter, maybe they believed what they saw, but maybe what they saw was influenced by the weed as well. Yeah.

Potentially. Well, it's not like a hallucinogenic. I don't think they'd have some kind of trip off weed. I think he's saying if it was like a stork or something. Yeah. Oh. Yeah, weed would make it a lot more than just a stork. I think we always get that. Yeah, yeah. Well, not in like a hallucinogenic... Sure, you just think you saw something. Not in a mind-altering way, like too much, but like, yeah, I think...

it has some kind of mental effect. If he was super high, then great driving. Going down those country roads at night. I've been there. It's not a straight shot. It's a lot of twists and turns. So, good on him. Also, that's another reason why I found it so interesting in this case, because there were four teenagers who

were smoking a lot of weed and they still went to the police in the 1960s. They must have been scared out of their minds to go to the police while probably reeking of weed after driving under the influence. That's a serious thing to do. I actually do fully believe that they think that they saw something at least resembling the Mothman. I don't think it was made up or anything like that.

Whether or not it was Mothman or something like Mothman is another story. I don't know. I really do think it's just like an animal that they saw that they kind of like tricked themselves into believing was more substantial. But that's where I'm at. I don't know about you guys. Yeah, I don't think they made it up. I don't think they were lying. I think they're just...

confused on what they experienced. Agreed. I think there's a level of mass hysteria where there were a lot of sightings all on the same month, and it started to influence what they thought they were experiencing. You know, I'll go ahead and plant my flag now. Someone on this podcast has to be

you know, the, the freak. So I, they saw a mothman. I think they saw a giant eight foot tall winged bird thing. So yeah. Yeah. That's my take. Okay. You plant your flag. You stick by that. I don't want you, I don't want you to waver from that opinion for the rest of the episode. Nay, for the rest of your life. Don't worry. I'm here. I'm clocked in right now. I'm good to go. Before we move on to the next eyewitness statements from, from more individuals, um,

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Fuck. He was just really thinking about that HelloFresh comment. Yeah, oh man, HelloFresh, so fucking good. Hopefully they don't mind me swearing. Okay, so the very next...

eyewitness account that I could find. And Charlie, you were right. They were all within the span of like a week. Like the first sighting came out, the article came out, and then just eyewitness accounts kept coming in just that one week, basically during November. And the very next one was from a woman named Faye Dewitt.

who claimed that herself and her brother had heard the reports from the day before of Roger, Linda, Steve and Mary seeing a moth-like creature nearby. And her brother wanted to prove that this sighting was fake, so they ventured out into the area searching for any evidence that they could find. Do you guys know about this one?

Yep. All right. Well, someone else can tell this one. I can read it for you in this beautiful text document you have together. So it says, Faye DeWitt and her brothers. Wait, that's what we're talking about, right? The Faye one.

Yep. Okay, make it sure. Faye DeWitt and her brother set out to find the moth or bird man that had been witnessed by the Scarburys and Mallets the previous day, firmly believing they could debunk the sighting. As they explored, Faye's brother spotted a figure near the car. When Faye turned around, she found herself face-to-face with the moth man. She vividly described its eyes as so big and glowy and red like you never saw red. Attempting to flee, they drove into a dead end.

According to Faye, the Mothman leaped onto the hood of the car, fixating its gaze alternately between her and her petrified brother. The creature then jumped onto a five-story building. Faye's brother, undeterred, left the car and began hurling rocks at the creature, managing to throw one so close. I guess you're just not about it if you don't get what he was on right there, chucking rocks at him. Yeah.

Who's the real monster? Who's the real monster? Mothman's innocent, he's trying to flee the scene. Man, that is true. This thing's just trying to fly away and he's like, not if I have anything to say about it. Managing to throw one so close to the creature's foot that the Mothman jumped, unfurled its full wings, and soared into the darkness.

So this one, I'll tell you where I stand. This one to me is a bunch of horse radish. I think this one is entirely fake across the entire board. Yeah, 100%. I think that Faye Dewitt is not a reliable eyewitness. The account of the Mothman tracking her down and jumping on the car's hood is just kind of goofy. Even taking into context Mothman itself, that just seems like...

kind of trying to one-up the other stories, right? Like, there's no other behavior that indicates that Mothman would ever be that kind of forward. Yeah, you all would say that, wouldn't you? A bunch of... Yeah. Just thinking you're so right in your own world, like, you just couldn't be real. Let's play in your pigpen here of fantasy. If this is a Mothman encounter, he's a bitch. He got scared of little rocks being thrown at his feet. How about that? Okay, for one, he is not weak. He is peaceful, okay? He is...

He is strong. He could have crushed their heads like a grate at any moment he so desired. But instead, he tried to get away. He gets on the hood and then that guy gets out. The freak throwing rocks at him. So he jumps on a building. They start chucking rocks at him and he's like, oh, I guess you don't want me here. Fine, I'll leave. He could have eviscerated them in a second if he so desired. But see that? It sounded more like he was afraid. No, no, no, no. If this story was made up, let me ask you this, Charlie.

How could she have said it was red like you never saw red? How would she have thought of that? See? And on top of that, why, if they're making up the story, would it not be cooler for him to say that he hit the Mothman? Why just near miss it? Unless that's exactly what happened. So, checkmate. He had to hide the Mothman's body, that's why we never saw him again after the fact. He hit him and had to bury him, and then made up the story about how he had thrown rocks at him. I killed the Mothman.

Oh man, imagine killing the Petal Moth Man. Also, yeah, I mean, also, like, if it was fake, maybe they would have made the building larger than five stories as well. Like, five just seems like an arbitrary number. You know, that is actually, like, jokes aside, the one detail about this story that's weird to me

because I don't think the whole time I was in Point Pleasant there was a single five-story building maybe like the hotel or there's a couple of warehouses like on Main Street but they said they were near the TNT area right? I don't know what five-story buildings would be out in the TNT area that's what I was thinking too

I know there's some like radar, like some antennas. Yeah. Yeah. Or maybe there's like, I think there might be like an old abandoned like a plant near the area. So maybe that's what it was. Uh, but yeah, I remember the first time I read the story, I was like a five story building in a field. What are you talking about? Yeah. Yeah. That jumped out at me as well.

But also, what does red like you never saw red mean? I don't... It's just supposed to be profound. It's like a poetic thing, I think, is what she was going for. Because that is the kind of eviction that Mothman pulls out of you when you really see him. Yeah. You think about stuff like that. I want to see that kind of red, though. That sounds cool. See? See? Jackson's on board. Also, I think it's really... I really think it's kind of... I don't like these people. Yeah.

I'm gonna put it out there. Why would you throw rocks at an innocent creature who's just trying to flee? Or they jumped on the hood of their car, allegedly. That's what he claims! It sounds like it was a hidden run to me! That is pretty funny that you see, like, this impossible, like, beast of nature, and you're like, "No, if I have anything to say about it, like, you..." "Why I oughta..." as he's, like, charging up a big punch. He's shaking his fist in the air.

I like the idea that Mossman was there to, like, give them a prophetic reading about their future, like, warn them about, like, maybe their car engine needed to be checked, their oil needed to be checked. Do we know? What's the over and under that they died in a car wreck after this? I think Faye was still alive up until very recently, like, maybe 10 years ago, I think. So...

Like I said, Mothman's peaceful. Mothman saved them from a car wreck. That's what happened. Yeah, maybe that's what it was. Yeah, so that one I think is a whole lot of baloney. I think you guys agree. Well, Charlie, I think you agree with me about that one.

And that kind of seemingly came out from the previous articles being written. It was the day after, basically. So they read the article and they went out and immediately found Mothman. And then the same day, a woman named Marcella Bennett, who's 26, and her young daughter drove to a friend's house near the TNT area close to Point Pleasant. While en route, she observed a peculiar funny red light hovering over the TNT area, distinct from an airplane.

There's those eyes again, the redder than red eyes. Redder than red. Yep. Ha ha ha ha ha!

Maybe that's what the prophecy that, uh, the warning that Mothman was trying to teach her at that moment. Why do the worst people run into Mothman? Throws the baby at Mothman. Quick, take it. I also love how that's just an element of the story. It's one of the most defining, defining parts. Yeah.

But quickly recovered, picking the baby up and rushed inside the house. And then hysteria ensued as the creature seemed to shuffle on the porch and peered through the windows. Which, again, that's not something that, like, I don't think that's something that Mothman would do. Yeah, I don't think he'd be out there causing a commotion and looking in. Yeah, like a voyeur, like, tapping on the windows. Yeah.

watching trying to watch her undressed or shit like that peeking through the windows that doesn't seem like Mothman to me so despite a police call when they arrived the Mothman was nowhere to be found so he vanished in his little dust cloud again riddle me this skeptics

If this story is fake, why would she add the detail that she dropped her baby? That is the worst thing. That just makes it seem like a bad parent. You're right. This seems like a point of honesty, I think.

It's the same reason why people say, well, I actually went there to prove that it's all fake, even though it's a story they're making up. It's supposed to make it seem more credible. So her like putting in this detail about dropping her baby, it's like, oh, why she would, she would never put that in there unless it was true. Even though I just. Alternatively, she dropped her baby accidentally. And then she had to make up this entire excuse about mothman being the thing to cause to rationalize dropping her baby. Now,

That's pretty funny. You drop your kid in the parking lot, you're like, ah man, there's this moth demon out there. So sorry. Damn you, moth man. Making women drop their babies. He's a real sick moth. No, this is clearly a true story. I don't know what the fuss is about.

Yeah, none of these are credible to me. Like, the first one, the Clendenin one, I don't think is too... It's more credible than these last two. But I think the only really credible one is the Roger and Linda Scarberry one. Because there was just so many people involved and they all had pretty, like...

Pretty grounded, I guess, like eyewitness reports. It wasn't anything goofy like the mothman jumping on their vehicles or anything like that. It was just they saw the mothman and then they fled the scene, basically. So I think that's why I'm more inclined to believe that one.

I think all of it's all bunch of gobbledygook nonsense. I don't think it's all real. I don't think any of it's real. It's mumbo jumbo. I think the only one where people even really believed it is the one you mentioned where they thought they saw some kind of like demonic creature that was influenced by the headlines. But

But I see we're getting to like the really interesting part of the story that I find to be the most fascinating. So over the next year, there's a lot of other various reports about Mothman like sightings. And then the townspeople started attributing everything that went wrong in their town to Mothman.

So like electrical appliances malfunctioning or cars or police dispatch getting fuzzled or like UFO sightings. All of them started to like go towards it must be Mothman like he's the puppet master pulling the strings in our towns it's victim. And then it finally boiled over. I'm sorry I'm kind of blasting through this but we're getting to the good stuff. No go for it.

In December 15th of 1967, that's when the Silver Bridge, which connected Point Pleasant to Gallipolis, Ohio, collapsed. That's where Superman lives. No, it's Metropolis. Gallipolis.

Well, that's where Mothman lives. Gallipolis. Gallipolis, yeah. Gallipolis, Ohio, yeah. Does that place still exist? Yeah, it's still there. Mothman didn't kill it. It probably sunk into the sea or something.

But yeah, so this bridge, the Silver Bridge collapsed. It resulted in 46 deaths. And at the time, keep in mind, this is still during that Mothman hysteria. People started reporting that they saw Mothman in the area right before the incident. So they were saying that this is what Mothman does. He's like this harbinger of bad omens. And all of these things that are going wrong in the town are him, the bridge collapsing. It's him. He brought upon this calamity. And then...

the sightings started to slow down. So we're starting to get into how Mothman became a legend. Wait, maybe he was just extremely unlucky and he was nesting on the bridge as it collapsed. And then he died from the collapse and that's why we've never seen him again.

He was real all the way up until that point. Bridge Collapse took him out. Maybe he wasn't the fucking... He wasn't the prophet of bad omens or anything. Maybe he was just really fucking unlucky.

Like, he got hit by the other people's car and rocks were thrown at him. And then everywhere he goes, no one wants him around. He nests on a bridge far out of town and then it collapses on him. There was one cryptid that actually existed and he died in a freak bridge accident. Completely unrelated. I don't know if you...

I don't know if you have it in your document. I didn't see it, Jackson. But do you have, like, the Genesis story of Mothman? Like, some of the mythos around him on, like, what he is and how he was made? I have a few theories. It's probably down in the theories area where, like...

He was an escaped government experiment. That's what I was going to get to. Imagine that's the real one. So one of the theories is that he was an escaped government experiment during World War II from that munitions manufacturing site. So they thought he was the result of a biological or chemical experiment in the abandoned facilities.

So he'd be like this fucked up creature that had been tortured by the government, finally gets free after the war, and then dies in a bridge collapse after getting hit with rocks. What a fucking life. He's trying to beat people, trying to ask for help, and then throw rocks at them and running away from their cars. He's just welcoming them to the only home he ever knew in the TNT area, and people just start shouting and screaming and hitting him with his car.

So he has to nest up in the fucking bridge and it collapses. Oh my god. Alright, most of it is now the saddest cryptid. Oh my gosh. The idea of like this poor deformed guy just being like, oh, you don't want to see my house.

No, friends, come back! Because he's chasing the car. That's so fucking, such a sad thought. Like, I don't subscribe to the belief that he was some kind of a government experiment, but goddamn, if he was, what an awful life he had.

What are the chances of a bridge just collapsing on, like, a normal bridge? It's gotta be, like, one in a million, right? That a bridge just falls apart. And he's like, I guess no one will be mad at me up here. Yeah, and it fucking collapses. Probably the first day he nested there as well. Um...

But yeah, so you were describing stories about how you would fly over town, like disrupting the satellite dishes or whatever, the radios. So maybe that's also what I think he may have already had, like the bad omen stigma around him before that, because like through sightings, maybe people were losing their technology or whatever.

But yeah, once he's... Maybe he was just full of magnets, you know? Yeah, it was just an EMP device gone wrong. Yeah, that would explain the bridge collapsing, you know? He just... Well, there was nothing else to eat in the TNT area, so he ate, like, gunpowder and magnets. So any electric device he got around quit working. That's what led to the bridge collapsing. So fucking goofy. Yeah.

I love that idea. I love that idea so much. If you want to get a little deeper into it, it is actual textbook mass hysteria. It does seem like it. Because all the...

Yeah, I think it was all within a week, like you mentioned. The first big reports and articles started getting written. So then everyone started getting a little scared. And this is during the 60s where people were a lot more susceptible to that kind of idea. So then for a whole year, you had all of these reports coming out. And then everyone starts thinking anything going wrong has to be Mothman related. And that was just like the boiling point there with the bridge. Yeah, I couldn't tell if people directly actually saw Mothman on the bridge. No.

There's a photo of a Mothman-like figure on the bridge, but I don't even think that's the same bridge. I'm not sure. So that is the same bridge. If I recall correctly, it was doctored to add him in after the fact to quote-unquote recreate the sightings.

Yeah. So I don't think there were people saying that he was around the bridge at the time, but then they started attributing it to him. He was trying to warn them in the month leading up to the bridge collapse or whatever. Like you said, they were attributing Mothman to everything that could possibly go wrong. And unfortunately, a bridge collapse that claimed 46 lives is like...

prime real estate really for that kind of stuff so very sad but I don't think like Mothman was a bad omen machine or like a

Or cause the bridge collapse or anything like that. He was just trying to save everyone. Of course, of course. He didn't cause it. He was just being a do-gooder, a hero at the time. He does become the anti-hero. So 1975, so some years later, I see you did mention the Mothman prophecies. So John A. Keel published the Mothman prophecies, which kind of told the story of Mothman and like his grip on the town.

And that really helped elevate it into the mainstream consciousness. So fast forward to early 2000s, January 2002, The Mothman Prophecies actually got adapted into a movie starring Richard Gere. So this told the story of Mothman to the new generation. And this...

is where Mothman becomes kind of crucial to Point Pleasant because then they started holding their own festivals. So their first one was in the same year, September 2002. Point Pleasant launched its Mothman Festival. This is where people dress up. They have the statue. They have all these stories being told. Then they start making the more fanfic shit about what Mothman is and where he came from. It's like the government experiment and all that. And it's actually a really... This is the...

big part of the documentary I watched. It's actually a really big part of that town's income. It makes up a huge part of the money that that town is able to have. It fuels it. It's their biggest tourism thing. It's their biggest industry. From what I could see, and Wendigan, you'd be able to weigh in on this since you've been there, but it seems like it's an enormous part of their culture in general in that town. A lot of their stores have...

like year long merchandise to do with Mothman as well as I know there's a cafe there that serves Mothman related meal items like I believe one of them is like Mothman droppings which are like nice little chocolate treats which is Mothman cookies which are very good very good cookies Mothman cookies so like

Not to get sad, but there is kind of the sad reality with a lot of parts of Appalachia, specifically West Virginia, that they're just very low income areas. And I say this to someone from Appalachia, like I grew up in, like my family was always prosperous, but around us there was a lot of poverty because a lot of businesses and industry were shut down over the past several decades. And most cities in the area just couldn't recover. There's a lot of abandoned towns.

destroyed infrastructure uh people just don't get along well but then in the middle of all that you're driving through all these like sleepy towns that have kind of got left behind by industry and whatnot and then there's just a town on the river called point pleasant that's doing great and when you go there and you start meeting and talking to people um

It's bizarre because you have this idea in your mind of the kind of people who are into Mothman. It's like, oh, people our age, millennials, Gen Z type on the internet. That's their demographic. And then you go to Point Pleasant and it's like someone's grandma baking Mothman cookies. Or it's like a family-owned pizza shop that makes Mothman pizza. It's interesting how...

the town has used the legend to make it a good, not just for people who are interested in the story, but for people who live in the area as well. And it's one of the reasons I love Mothman so much because not only is the legend fun and all that, but it's done. It's done a lot of good for the people of the area. It absolutely seems that way. Yeah. Even though Mothman is most likely not real. No, no, no. We're so close to a moment. We had such a moment there.

Then the haters had to come in, the doubters. The idea of Mothman is very real and does a very good thing for that town. So it brings in like 20,000 people to the festival each year. It really helps keep that town doing well. So it's really wholesome, actually. Yeah, I think it's extremely wholesome. It started from...

Yeah, it started from like really like scary sightings and shit. And now Mothman's kind of like, I don't know, like a saint almost to point pleasant. He's like, he's definitely like a town mascot. I would, I would. They put a statue of him up in the middle of town, you know, like. Yeah, with nice ass. That says a lot. Yeah, it absolutely does. And he means a lot to a lot of people. So that's why I think Mothman is also one of my favorite cryptids because it's nice to see a cryptid that's not just all kind

Kind of like doom and gloom, which is ironic because this one is attached to a bridge collapse that killed 46 people, which is actually substantial. Well, hold on. The legend is... Sorry, not the legend. The true story, the true accounting of events is that Mothman was trying to warn everyone of the bridge collapsing. That's why he was there. He was the good guy. He tried to save them. He didn't do a great job. Imagine he's like... It's like in Spider-Man where he's trying to stop the train with webs. He's got his wings out to try to hold the bridge up.

Not on my watch point, Pleasant. And he still gets blamed. Wait, but surely there's a better way of like warning people about the bridge collapse if that's what he was trying to do. Well, everyone was so afraid of him, right? People hit him with cars and threw rocks at him. So he's like, ooh, I'm on the bridge. Don't go to it. Trying to be nice.

Well, people were seeking him out. So it would be like a moth to a flame kind of thing where everyone goes to the bridge to see him. Stand on the bridge, like gawking up at him and then it collapses like a fucking trap. I don't know. Well, it collapsed three days after the appearances. It was like they saw him and then it collapsed. So he gave them time to clear out. You know, it was he gave them a fair warning. You know, he was he was doing a public service.

Yeah, I think the collapse of the bridge was about a month after the initial sightings. Which is... Actually, now that I'm thinking about it, that is such a short amount of time. Oh, wait, no, was it? No, it was a year. Never mind, it was a year and one month after the initial sightings. Right, yeah. So, I mean, it's still close, I guess, but...

I was gonna say if it was like a month away that's like extremely close to now I'm a believer now I believe in the Mothman's prophetic visions or whatever well it was one year you know he had a year on this earth and what did we do we threw rocks at him and hit him with cars so you know yeah he

He still might be alive, though, because you've got the most recent sighting and photos here from November of 2016. I do. So it says precisely five decades following the initial Mothman sighting, an unidentified individual who had recently relocated to the area was traveling down Route 2 in Point Pleasant. According to reports, he claimed to have encountered the Mothman and managed to capture three images of the creature.

These images were submitted to Eyewitness News, leading to the publication of an article titled, Man Photographs Creature That Resembles Legendary Mothman of Point Pleasant. While the man declined an on-camera interview, he vehemently asserted that the picture had not undergone any editing. Interestingly, he had no prior awareness of the legend until he personally witnessed the Mothman. Allegedly. Yeah, I'm sure, buddy. Yeah, allegedly.

Um, the pictures, I'm putting them up on screen. If you're an audio listener right now, the pictures are black and white at what looks to be nighttime of like, what would you describe that as? Like a guy flying through the air with wings, basically. It gives off a very, uh,

liminal of a liminal's bit of buzzword it gives off kind of an uncanny vibe the picture like all of it it's like it's like weirdly nostalgic the the lighting of the images and stuff it's kind of it's kind of framed rather nice i would put this on my wall it does remind me it is kind of sorry

I was just going to say, it looks like he himself posed for this and then photoshopped himself there. Yeah, I can see that. Definitely. I mean, it definitely looks photoshopped to me. Augmented in some capacity. It's got that charming kind of quality of early... This wasn't early internet. This was 2016. But it does have that charming quality of those fake cryptid images on the early internet. Yeah, yeah. It's got that kind of quality to it, which I...

quite enjoy it, but yeah, I don't pay any attention to this one. This one is just there for the sake of it being there, really. It's like not very compelling to me. Nope. It's bullshit. Nope. See, there you all go again with your doubting, your lies. Look, clearly Mothman was making a last, and this will lead in my theory of what he is, because he's definitely real, but I have a theory as to why he's real. So I'll have...

This ties into that theory, and we'll get to that when we get to the theory section, but you're all continuing to be misbelievers. And because of that, Mothman will not favor you kindly when the time comes. So I just want you to remember that. Right now, you're sowing the seeds that you will one day reap. So remember that.

I'm just going to avoid any bridges, basically, and I should be fine. Yeah, you better. Well, yeah, you're lucky. You live in Australia. Our fucking, this is a tangent, but I go on this a lot. Our bridges in the US are actually fucking atrocious. Did you know that we, well, not, I can't say as an absolute, but for the most part, most places have stopped doing bridge inspections because every bridge fails. So it's actually better if they just don't do it. So it stops failing.

the bridges are in terrible states they're barely holding on they could fucking collapse at any point yeah that is scary our modern bridges are trash if only there was a mothman to save us yeah but he tried and you doubt him so you know

I don't want Mothman anywhere near bridges. He was warning. He was warning. He can't stop our poor infrastructure. He was trying to save us from our poor infrastructure. Are you trying to tell me that if you did see Mothman standing by a bridge this time, you would still go to that bridge? No, it's a warning. I'm not going on the bridge if I see Mothman because Mothman goes to the bridge. I'm agreeing with you. I'd probably turn around. If I saw Mothman by a bridge, yeah, that would be it for that bridge, I think.

Maybe that's why they're not upkeeping the bridges anymore, Charlie. They know Mossman's out there doing personal inspections on the bridges. You know, Charlie, have you heard of a bridge collapsing in the US since the Point Pleasant one? That's what I thought. That's what I thought. There hasn't been a single bridge collapse since 1967, and it's because he has been taking care of them, making sure that we're safe. So...

I'm here for someone complain a lot about it. I think we have a solution and I think you're denying that solution and I think that's a you problem need to work out. Maybe you're right. You sound like you're about to cry. You know. All right. Let's uh, let's move on to the theories because there's a lot of theories here. Um, the first one is obviously just that the Mothman is a cryptid that like, uh, basically what we've been describing.

He's an undiscovered species, so far undiscovered species, that exists in the TNT area.

uh it's a cool theory i still like the idea of him being encrypted yeah i still like the idea of him being encrypted um that's always fun but i think there are more compelling theories here that we'll get into eventually the next one i found i found quite fun charlie you'd probably get a kick out of this one the mothman is an interdimensional being okay this is actually my theory this is my theory about him okay so here here hear me out

Mothman is a creature from a very advanced reality, but one that is not directly adjacent to our own. So humanity maybe evolved differently. Maybe creatures other than humanity came to Earth. Eventually, these creatures became what Mothman is. So they begin exploring other dimensions and they do this by...

looking for areas that have some kind of technology, some kind of value to whatever science this other dimension is trying to pull off, but nowhere mainstream. You can't appear in the middle of Times Square that will bring too much attention, but an

an old military plant in a sleepy town in West Virginia, you could try that out. So Mothman visits our dimension, but once he gets there, he sees a lot of dissent, a lot of distrust. He starts to see things like the local town having a lot of poverty, starts to see a lot of issues with local governments and things such as. So he starts to manipulate the town from behind the scenes. And before he leaves,

He decides to stick around and warn people of a local bridge that he knows is about to collapse. After the bridge collapses, he travels back to his own reality. This is a pretty easy answer to it. I don't see what the issue is, so...

Did he teleport back to his own dimensional depressed because he failed? No, it's because his job was done. He went back to report. He was an agent. His job was done. They all died. 46 people died and the bridge collapsed. It could have been more. It could have been more. Who knows how many would have if people weren't afraid to go on the bridge because Mothman was there. Also, if you'll remember, in the original sheriff's report, he said that his radio was creating a weird kind of static. What?

Also, through the entire year Mothman was in Point Pleasant, electricity was behaving weird. That's because the energy he carried over from the other dimension was causing a rift, a rift that made electronics misbehave whenever he's around. So there's a lot of through lines, a lot of consistency. I don't, this is clearly what he is. Yeah, he's a multidimensional being who came. Dr. Manhattan. Yes, he came to help us for a short amount of time and then went back to his own reality. And we honor him as such.

I mean, I can't argue with that. I like what you're cooking. So we can really wrap up here. This has been the Red Thread. Thanks, everyone. I guess there's no other explanation needed. We got him. He came from a different dimension to help us out and then completely failed at helping us out and left depressed, basically. Yeah, yeah. Hey, just for the record, Jackson, can you say that the Mothman isn't real real quick? The Mothman isn't real.

That play, could you hear that? No, I couldn't hear anything. I didn't hear anything. There was just silence. I pulled up on my phone, extremely loud, incorrect buzzer. Just any time you're going to mention another theory, I was going to do it. But it didn't work, so forget it. But my point still stands. I'm not going to add the silence. Thank you. I'm not going to add the noise. It's just going to be silent. It's going to be awkward.

Thank you. I appreciate that. But my point still stands. He is a being here to save us and he should be treated with the respect as such. So now you can get into your fake cope theories. Yeah, sure. He is treated with a lot of respect, to be fair. Not by you two, not by my co-host on this podcast. I love him. I appreciate what he does for Point Pleasant. He's more of a symbol than a tangible thing. More of an idea. I hope he's real. I think it would be cool.

I'd love if he was real. Yeah, he seemed... Like I said in the initial moments of the podcast, I think he's like one of the friendliest cryptids that's ever existed. So I'm totally down for him to be real. I'm fine with that. But my theory...

My theory is not rooted in any kind of interdimensional pseudoscience that you dabble in. It's rooted in... I believe he's just an animal. I think he's a sandhill crane, basically. That seems to be the most...

compelling theory to me uh have you guys seen these photos of of sandhill crane birds at night they look shockingly like uh mothman to me without i watched this video that you're referencing here so it comes from groovy groovy gavin in the youtube video mothman is mothman actually real so this is where he tackles like the sandhill crane theory and

I think there's a small chance that it was a sandhill crane. I really think it's more just mass hysteria. I think they saw like a big bat or something and they saw all of these like accounts being put out and they're like, Oh, must be more. Oh, I think it's both. So I think the, so what I mean is the initial, uh, sighting is something like the sandhill crane or even, or even a bat, like you said. And then from there, once people start seeing in articles and stuff, that's when the mass hysteria kind of took hold. And,

people started making up their own accounts or seeing things that weren't entirely accurate and playing it up. Is that what you mean? Yeah, I do love the picture of the Sandhill Crane at night with its wings spread. It looks really cool. Yeah, it does. Look at its long legs as well, and its wingspan itself, and the eyes as well. I think it's also important to note, if you shine any kind of light at a lot of birds or different birds, like in the faces at night, their eyes genuinely...

generally do glow like a very vibrant red as well. So it's entirely possible that that's what they saw in the car headlights was just birds eyes being very bright red. And they do seem to have like giant eyes as well. Like in that picture at night of the Sandhill crane, which is up on screen at the moment, like the eyes are glowing like super bright. Yeah. So to me, that's the most compelling thing.

In my head, I'm playing the incorrect buzzer. It's just constantly that in your head. Yeah, everything you all just said, that's all I heard. Yeah. The only thing that kind of, like, put a...

put a kibosh on this theory for me was that the sandhill crane isn't found generally in West Virginia. So unless someone like smuggled one in and it was flying around at the time, then I think perhaps it was a different creature. And hold on, hold on. What about when they were driving away? They said that Mothman was following them in speeds of up to a hundred miles an hour. Can sandhill cranes fly that fast?

Can they? I don't know. Probably not. I didn't even know those bitches could fly. We get them down here. See? See? So, put Poetzl in that theory now, doesn't it? Potentially. Or maybe another theory is that Mothman is just a building. Alright. I'm flipping my table. This is absurd. This is slander. I can't do this anymore. I can't work under these conditions. Yeah, even that one makes me...

That one makes me want to flip a table too. That's a dumb thing. But have you guys ever seen like the radio antennas and they have to put the red lights on top that blink? Yeah, I've seen those a lot. They've never chased my car down a dark road at night. Well, yeah, true. But maybe they saw the crane first. That would be way scarier than Mothman imagining it in a like right behind you. Well, do you want to know something fun about why that theory is not as outlandish as you think? No, no.

We actually just, I made a video on this recently. We just saw something blow up on Tik TOK about giants are real and the government's hiding it from us. And their evidence was there was an antenna on top of a mountain and they thought it was a giant. So there is a chance that that happened here, but I still think it's super stupid. Yeah. I,

I agree. I think there's like elements where some person could see the red light and get scared and think it's a Mothman from far away. But like the car chase stuff, that doesn't really pan out, obviously. What about the men in black aspects? Is there anything you guys want to talk about there? Why?

Just a lie. Just a lie. You don't have any further. So the men in black stuff actually comes from the author who wrote the, the mothman prophecies, the original book. Um, he coined, he coined the phrase men in black. Um, and yeah, he, he believes that a lot of,

Men in black would come and like talk to the talk to the eyewitnesses and tell them to remain silent and stuff like that. And they and the men in black would search the town for Mothman and stuff. So is it at all possible that the Mothman is an escaped government experiment, Charlie, and the men in black are trying to put him back in the cage? No, I don't think so.

I also disagree with that theory, but for different reasons than Charlie disagrees with that theory. I just think he's an interdimensional time being, not because I don't think he's not real. Okay. I see. I see what you're getting at. So, I can't tell if you're being serious, Wendigoon. Is your theory actually that he's an interdimensional being? Absolutely. Obviously. For sure. Yeah.

Why would it be anything else? I ranted for like 10 minutes about why that's absolutely what happened. And you keep trying to make me doubt. The man in black thing might be real, but I know this. If I was alive during this time and I had to deal with people like you telling me he's not real, I would pretend to be government agents and snoop around the town to make more people think it's real. So...

Well, can't you just tie them together, though? Can't you say, like, the Men in Black were, like, investigating the temporal rifts left by him? The, uh, you know, interdimensional rifts left by Mothman? I mean, maybe. They can both be true. Sure, they can both be true, but I think Mothman's so far beyond our understanding, especially in the 1960s. I think he was running circles around government agents. Maybe they were showing up in town to do stuff, but I don't think they would've got anywhere, just because Mothman's that good at what he does.

And as far as the pictures in 2016, that's the one part, the one account I'm willing to believe is doctored. That's it. Fair enough. Oh, is it because it doesn't make sense for him to come back? It doesn't make sense for him to come back after that time period. Maybe it was another one. He looks weak. Yeah, maybe it was another one of the Mothman species from the time dimension. Maybe that's what it was.

Coming to check out his work? Coming to check if they've rebuilt the bridge? Right, but why would he do that, right? Because if Mothman, if his whole point here was to collect data and then warn us and then leave, then, or maybe it was just to collect data and then his good heart got in the way of his mission and he decided to stay to warn us about the Silver Bridge, why would another one come to the exact same area? There's been reports of Mothman reported in, like, Russia, and some people have even said they saw him before the World Trade Center attack, but that's a whole other story. So...

Maybe those are the same being coming over to different times in our timeline to save us from stuff. But I don't think a different one or even the same one would revisit Point Pleasant. That doesn't make a lot of sense. So that's the one detail I'm willing to say is a farce.

I do love the idea that they are interdimensional beings, but they have this incredible technology to do that and then have no means of effectively helping us in any way other than just standing around looking menacing. They can't figure out a more effective way of helping. Well, they're like the Watchers. They don't interfere with mankind. They just observe. But by being here, they're interfering immediately. Well, um, no. Good argument. Noted. Noted.

That's the red thread way, baby. That's how these arguments go down. No, no, he... No, no, no, look. He was just to observe and report, but like I said, his altruism got in the way, and he wanted to help. That's why he stuck around. That's why he made himself seen when he wasn't supposed to. There could be hundreds, if not thousands, of these time being Mothmans throughout all of humanity's history, but this one, his heart was three sizes too big, and that

It jeopardized his mission. We saw him. But he did it to help. Well, it was Christmas time when the bridge collapsed. So, yeah. So, wait. If he was here...

What do you mean? What was their goal, if not to help? Are they just watching us? To observe a report. See, Charlie knows. Catch up, Jackson. I get it. I get it from the Council of Mothmen. Of course, yeah. See, Charlie will be accepted into the Order. When his time comes, he will be favored. Unlike you. Is there any... I couldn't... So, to end this episode, I have a question for the experts here.

Is there any reason it's a moth? Like, is there any kind of connection with moths with anything? I know moths like lights and stuff like that. Is there any kind of deeper meaning we can take from Mothman here? They kind of openly admit the reason it's a moth is because they couldn't use Batman. I don't think there was anything deep to it. Yeah, but it's still shaped like a moth, right? Not really. It's definitely more shaped like a bat than a moth. Yeah.

Just as a moth is drawn to a flame, Mothman draws us to a higher understanding. Which is? Be wary of American road infrastructure systems. We talked about this. Actually, a great message if that's the one he's trying to send, because our infrastructure is fucking awful. Yes, this is the enlightenment, get it? Enlightenment of Mothman. Oh my god, that's so...

The bridge was gonna collapse anyway whether or not he did anything so that would be the message. Yes! And he warned us! He warned us that the bridge was going to collapse. Don't you see? See what I'm seeing Jackson. The American infrastructure is a farce. They make things to kill us, things that will fall apart and he saw this and he can't intervene but he can warn. He is a harbinger of what we have done to ourselves.

Oh, he's the mirror being held up to society. You made me. Can you not see? He was birthed from a weapons factory of war. He came from the worst humanity had to offer and tried to make us into our best selves. And what did we do? We rejected him, just as you are now.

But you said... Why are you bringing the weapons manufacturing plan into this now? I said he was birthed from the worst of it. Like, he came from... Like, physically, the location. He came from the worst command he had offered. It's symbolic of his journey of going from, like... And he disrupts technology. He disrupts our...

our machinations are things society is built upon to try to point us towards something better he was really a prophet if you think about it which is why the book is called the Mothman Prophecies it's all connected showing us the folly of our hubris exactly look at Charlie he's fitting right into the group he's going to be an acolyte at this rate in no time

I'm coming around, I'm coming around, you're making a lot of sense now. But Jackson, if you don't soon, we're gonna feed you to the bridge. Okay. Just the bridge's wreckage. I'm just gonna throw you into the water next to Gullipolis, Ohio. I'm looking forward to it. So, where would Mothman rank for you guys in general?

S tier. I think he's the... Yeah, I'd say he's definitely got to be S tier. He literally helps finance an entire town. No other cryptid can do that. They make like a million dollars per festival apparently in profit. He's a very lucrative cryptid, definitely. Yeah, for sure. And

Let's just disregard all of the theories around this. Like we said earlier, I do really appreciate the Mothman cryptid itself because, like we said before, it really means a lot to a whole community of people and people beyond the community itself as well. I think that it's just a very positive cryptid. So I really do appreciate him. I think he's S tier as well. I think he's at the very top.

And he's got a nice butt. He does have a nice butt. He does. He's caked up. That's something we can all agree on. That took us means business. Yeah, that's an interdimensional... Those are interdimensional cheeks. They sent their best agent. A specimen. Yeah. That's what they were fucking testing on at the fucking military experimentations was how to perfect butt cheeks. Yeah.

how to get the perfect rum the Germans will never see this coming thank you guys for listening to this episode of the red thread we really appreciate you guys hanging out with us and listening to our theories and such as well as us ranting about Mothman we hope that you learned something about Mothman while you were here and beyond that we're just really thankful that you're all hanging out with us and listening to the red thread it really does mean so much to us that you guys are here for the ride

We're loving the red thread. We're really enjoying it. Also, shout out to my girlfriend who really compiled the notes for this one. So thank you for that one. She did a great job on compiling all these notes together. Show notes in the description, by the way, for this episode, as well as all previous episodes. You can find the show notes below.

Other than that, that's everything from me. You guys want to say anything to wrap this one up? Nah, Mothman forever, baby. Mothman forever. I hope I never see him though, because that means bad stuff, right? For you, with this attitude it does. Yeah. You've offended it now. Alright guys, that's it for this one. We'll see you next time. Thanks for watching. Bye-bye. Bye everyone. Thank you. ...

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