7: Heather McDonald Joins To Discuss Latest Jaw-Dropping Cases!
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Buckle up and crank up that volume. This is Serialistly with Annie Elise. Welcome back. Happy Monday. We have got a new episode of Serialistly today. And I'm so excited because I have a very special guest here with me today. Heather McDonald, hit Juicy Scoop podcast, comedian, extraordinaire. I don't know. Can you introduce yourself and tell everyone? Hi.

Well, I'm best known for probably Juicy Scoop now, which is going, it'll be eight years in July. And it's every Tuesday and Thursday. And it's mostly comedy and pop culture. But I do touch on crime. And I have now a special segment of my Patreon called Juicy Crimes that might become a bigger thing. But oftentimes I have my sister on who's a criminal defense attorney. So I'm obsessed with crime.

The show is called Juicy Scoop, so it's anything juicy. So the crimes that I'm attracted to are not necessarily serial killers, but they're passion related, relationship related, mother related, stuff that I, you know, can relate to in my own life. That's what I always was attracted to with like date lines and stuff. Like if there was a date line about like kind of a wealthy couple that like were married for 20 years and then she like threw it all away to like fuck the dentist, like

I am like, oh my God, one mistake, you know, and now, yeah, someone kills somebody and your whole life is ruined. So like, that is the kind of juicy stuff that I love. And then I'm also a standup comedian and I'm a headlining comedian. I've had a couple of specials and I go on tour and I sometimes do live juicy scoops with other regular comedians that are regulars on my show. And then sometimes we'll just do standup. Sometimes it's a combo. So that's-

That's the whole deal. And I'm a mother and I'm married and, you know, that's it. Well, and I have to tell you guys too, I am a juicy scooper. I listen with my sister here who's here today. We listen twice a week. We are like loyal to the bone. It is so good. So I'm so excited. So wait, I love this because...

You guys are sisters and you work together and I'm very close to my sister and this is the husband, right? That's the husband. Yeah. And, and my husband also, we have our company together as well. Yes. I've heard on a few of your episodes when he's in studio with you. Yeah. Yeah. And yeah. And so he is all the tech stuff, everything I hate.

Like from the moment I met him, I'm like, oh my God, I'm going to, I'm going to marry him because he likes to do everything. I hate taxes, returning shit, reading directions, anything technical, you know, like seriously, he, when we were dating, this is so long ago. Cause I'm married so long. I didn't have an email. Like it was just becoming a thing. And so one day I go over to his house and he's like,

oh, hey, I got you this. I got you an email account and the name and it's Heather Tobias, which is his name at hotmail.com. And I'm like, well, I guess now I have to marry you. We weren't even engaged, but I'm like, I don't know how to get a new email account. So that's like, now you have some extreme grooming. Okay. Now I cannot get out of hotmail. It's not a good look though either. You know what? I still have it. If you'd like to send me an email, I have a hotmail account.

- I have, listen, I have G mails, okay? I have the real Heather McDonnell, Heather McDonnell management. Those are all Gmail. That hotmail is never going away. - Never, and that's where you get like all the junk mail all the time. It's just, yeah, it's a lifer. - But still, if someone's trying to find me from 12 years ago,

You can find me. Perfect. Well, so I'm so excited because like you said, you have Juicy Crimes on your Patreon. Yes. So, and there's a few on your Juicy Scoop podcast. I've heard like the Dirty Jane one. I was like glued to it. I was like, oh my God, what's happening? So we're going to run through some of the headlines right now. Great. I'm going to talk to you about a case that just came out a couple of weeks ago too. I'd love to get your thoughts on it. And we're just going to kind of roast the dummies in it and talk about it. Great. Okay, cool.

And so, um, first let's kind of start and just talk through what cases, if any, are you following right now? Cause there are a lot of trials going on like Valo. I don't know if you know much about Letitia Stout, but, um, definitely Valo. And I'm just, I'm just reading some that's happening right now and, and how shocking some of the stuff is that was not, we were not privy to even with the several documentaries, the 48 hours, everything I've read. Um,

you know how the bodies were found and things like that really just shocking and what a psychopath she is literally just sitting there and like smiling because a psychopath doesn't think they did anything wrong no and the conversation I heard the tape uh between she and what's the dude's name Chad Chad um where he's like yeah they're

Like she's talking to him while he's in prison or whatever. And he's like, yeah, they're on the property. And she's like, okay. Like he's clearly trying to say like they're going to find them. Yeah. So yes. What's the other one? Leticia. What's that one? Leticia Stelk. She killed her stepson, 11 years old. And she's like batshit crazy. I kind of remember that one. Can you just refresh me on it? Yeah. So Gannon Stelk is the stepson. He was 11 years old at the time. She stabbed him a bunch of times, 18 times. He didn't die. Then shot him in the face.

And it... Like, her lies after that were really... Where did she... Did she say he went missing or ran away? She said he went to a friend's house and then never returned. And was she and the husband the custodial parents or was the bio mom involved? The bio mom was involved quite a little bit, but he lived with her and his father. And...

her daughter was there too. She like had text her daughter, go get me baking soda, cleaning supplies, not, and the daughter was 17 at the time, didn't understand what was happening. Did the daughter know then afterwards that she found out later and then the mom was arrested and now she's on trial and she's had pled guilty, but by insanity. So was there any reason why they thought that she would be so angry to do such a thing? I think it was just that she didn't like being a parent. She didn't like the responsibility of kids that were not her own, like completely biologically hers. And it, it,

it was awful. It's like, yeah. And so it's been going on now. I mean, first of all, I'm a stepmother to my oldest child. And, you know, we have the worst reputation starting with Disney, you know? I mean, every stepmother is just seen as like... The monster. Yeah, you know, I'm, you know, Snow White is pretty other than me. I don't even know if Snow White's... Was the queen Snow White's stepmother too? But I mean, she was a bitch who was jealous of...

a younger version of herself. And then also there was Cinderella. Cinderella, yeah. That mom was horrific. And Sleeping Beauty was like the godmother was weird. Yeah, it's always just like the worst. You're right, it is. The worst, the worst, the worst. And so it's like as stepmothers, we're constantly like trying to prove to everybody like we're not evil. Like we're not trying to take your mom's spot. We just want to be a great person. Sorry that we love your dad. Like fuck, sorry. Like it is just...

And then to have this bitch fucking set us back 2000 years. Like this is awful. It's really bad. Horrific. And her daughter, Harley is now 20. Cause it's been three years since the arrest. And she took the stand yesterday. I was listening to on the drive over up to LA. Cause we stayed in LA last night. I was listening to it and I was just crying. It's so sad. Cause she's like, I had no idea. She was saying her biological dad died.

I think when she was 15 and she was told, her mom told her somebody had come into the house, robbed him and then killed him. She's like, I found out last week as she's testifying that he died of an overdose. My mom had lied to me the whole time. It's just, I thought she was going to say, well, she knows maybe she was feeding him the drugs. I mean, what could it be that she killed him? I know. Obviously nothing is off limits. Right. Even when she was arrested, there's a video going around too. She was in the back of the cop car. She was,

gets out of her handcuffs, takes a full unopened monster can and hits the police officer who's in the back seat with her in the face with it and then tries to escape. I'm like, this bitch is crazy. Like, beyond crazy. So how long was she playing the role that he like, the kid ran off or something? It went on for, I think it was just a few weeks, but they caught on to her quick. She like had contacted this company called fakepolygraph.com where she sends them the list of questions and how the answer should come through. Like if she passed or not.

So then I guess they have something in their system where if you ask certain questions, it flags it. So when she didn't get the results emailed back to her, she called that audio came into the courtroom and they're like, no, ma'am, like we can't give you this. You know, it's we had to raise it up to our manager. She's just insane and tried to cover her ass a ton. I mean, my favorite is just when people Google stuff.

And she was like that too. Yeah. Like what to do with a body? What to do with a 5'2 female body if you need to cut it into four spots? Like literally there's been guys that are that stupid. Brian Walsh recently did that. Yes. It's unbelievable. Yeah. I know. I know. So going back quickly to Lori Vallow, what do you think about that whole case besides the fact that she is a psychopath?

Well, just absolutely fascinating on so many levels. Fascinating that she is, got pretty privileged. Yeah. So she's a pretty blonde girl. Been married, I think, four times. Four times. And, you know, and that she was in like a Mrs. contest. Oh, yeah. I forget what this table was. It's one thing to be in pageants. But then when you're like already married and a mother and you're like, I still need to be the center of attention. Maybe Raquel can do that. I know. Raquel. Raquel.

Today's episode of Serialistly is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Now, most of you listening right now are probably multitasking. Yes, I know you are. While you're listening to me talk, you're probably also driving, cleaning, exercising, or maybe even grocery shopping. But if you are not in some kind of moving vehicle, there is something else you can be doing right now, getting an auto quote from Progressive Insurance.

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Paid for by the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services. Oh my God, I just saw a video going to Vanderpump. We're going to be hopping around, obviously. Yeah, that's the bigger crime here, Scandival. I feel like your audiences can keep coming. But I just saw her talent in the pageant. What was it? She jumps on like a surfboard and pretends to surf.

It's not dancing. Is it on like a cylinder or anything for balance? No, I don't even think. She's on the floor. Yeah. God, she's a real idiot. I can't. And I mean, speaking of defending her. Okay. So now people are starting to feel sorry for her. Who? Who?

I don't mean to brag, but I have a Pilates instructor and we got into it today. Okay. And why does she feel bad for her? And I love the brag. It's not a brag. We love that here. My husband's a boxing instructor. We love fitness. Anyway, I did convince her though. So I could be an attorney too. Okay. So convince the audience. Okay. So she just was like, I mean, but I mean, she is like, I go, listen, she's 28 years old.

And I know she comes off, as Lala would say, a Bambi dyed bitch. You know what to say. It's end of all that's having a party. Okay. So she is like that. But she's 28 years old. And five years ago, she went, because she was a fan of Vanderpump. She went crazy.

met, went and followed, started to hang out with James, went to like two more locations to try to seduce him. Became the girlfriend, got on the show. Once they broke up, she was smart enough to know, just like a real housewife, even if you hate that bitch,

you better still film with Teresa Giudice, okay? Because otherwise, you're fucking out, okay? You can't just be like, I hate you. And that's why when I do hate women in my life, I'm like, hey, Bravo's not paying me. I never see that cunt again. But if Bravo's paying you, you better be like, okay.

Can we move past it now? Because I'd like my $500,000. So anyway, so I'm like, she then, now she's single. And she's smart enough to know that I got to date somebody within the group. She goes for Peter. She goes for Oliver, Garcelle's son, who's married with a kid. And she goes for Schwartz. When Schwartz doesn't want her, she's already...

And she's so hungry for attention. You know, cheaters are all about ego. It's not because their girlfriend isn't pretty enough that they're cheating on. And then, and then six scannable liked her and she probably liked having sex with him and liked the attention. But then she goes on to deceive everyone along with him for seven months and

In the plan was that we will get through the season. We will, he'll go, we'll get through the reunion. And then during the respite, the hiatus, if we want to date, I mean, I know this, if we want to date, then we'll, um,

Then it'll be like, oh, I, you know, we just ran into each other at Irwan. And then like, and we really connected. And now I get to stay on the show. Because otherwise, you're a single girl. Why aren't you on Hinge or whatever? Yeah. Is that a site? I think Amy.

Is that a fight? Whatever. Or the one that for the famous people that starts with an R. What's that? Raya. Raya. Yeah. Why don't you go on Raya? Yeah. And like, because if, but if you went on Raya and met some cute guy, or if you went on Hinge and met an accountant who doesn't want to be on the show. Nobody cares. That's not going to help you stay on the show. Yeah. She literally pursued four people in the cast. She ran the train. So,

Yeah, so I'm just saying that is not a cotton candy dum-dum. No. Well, and I'm sure you've heard, of course, by now, the conversation that she and Ariana apparently had in the finale episode where Ariana basically confides to her, you know, I think that Tom is cheating on me. She's like, well, if that comes to be true, like, I'll be there for you.

What a complete psychopath. Well, before it all, everything was coming out and I'm good friends with Lala. So I'm talking to Lala, like I'm dying. And I'm like, you know, this has happened to my friends whose husbands have cheated with women they know. And it's, this is why I say it's diabolical because there's times where the cheating woman, the mistress,

is consoling the friend. They're like at their kid's sports game and she's like, I don't know, like we're just not getting along. He's so distant. And then the friend keeps asking her like, well, what's going on? Are you having more sex? No, we're really not. Oh, because she's having sex. Yeah, she wants to know if he's still having sex with you. She wants to make sure her boyfriend isn't cheating on her with his wife, you know? And then she's thinking this is my good friend. And so it's like a triple deception. It's just...

So that's, and the friends were all deceived. Yeah. The cast was all deceived. It's so bad. But so the Lori Vallow, so she's getting back to Lori Vallow. Back to true crime. So, you know, she's that kind of a woman. Also, then the religious aspect is really weird. Yes. So weird. Then the podcast aspect. The whole thing is weird. So she starts doing podcasts. And the fact that she fell for this guy, I can't. Anything about like,

Anything about, hey, I like, and then she's telling, like, I remember this in one of the specials or documentaries where the girl that was like, she was originally Mormon and then was going to a more extreme thing. And she calls her friend who thought who was sort of religious too. And she's like,

hey, like I got you on the list. You're one of the 111,000 that can like go to heaven. Like if you want to hang out and she's the girl's finally like, no, but like, where are your kids? And then they go to Hawaii and she's loving the cameras and not caring about. And then the fact that the poor husband gets killed by the brother, then the brother mysteriously dies. The day after Chad's wife's body is exhumed. He died the day after. I'm like, there is, there's so much shadiness. Definitely the brother dies.

Killed everybody. Yeah. Brother killed everybody and also there's foul play with the brother dying. I definitely think. I agree completely. And because he knew too much. And for a while in one of those shows, her mom and sister were still like,

you know, sort of protecting her. Well, now no one's there. Nobody. No one's in the trial. No, no. And she also has a son from like the first or second marriage. So he testified today. Oh, okay. And she apparently, I was, people were texting me because I have a friend who's in the courtroom and she's like, he's testifying and he's pissed off and she's just smiling at him the whole time, like grinning. I'm like,

what a complete psychopath i just don't get it and she tried to get excused out of the courtroom last week when they were showing the photos of the children's bodies because it was extremely graphic yeah and the judge was like hell no you have to sit through this you can't like run away now and cry when you haven't been cooperating and all these things and like and let's treat her like a male serial killer because she's a serial killer yeah and you know let's not give her any

special thing at all. And if anything, she's the worst kind of killer because she killed her own. Yeah. And I feel so badly also for the grandparents of the little boy because they entrusted... Now, I can't remember why...

Why did she and the husband who then also got shot by the brother, why did they get custody of JJ who was actually his nephew? So Larry and Kay had custody, the grandparents. But then they wanted to kind of put him in a lifestyle where the parents were younger, more fit. He could have family.

friends his age so it just made sense and so the grandparents were like here's this loving wholesome family they're lds mormons they're this and that like he'll have a great life so sad is the sister was so good to him she loved being a big sister yeah everybody and colby loved him too it was a

And then just being like, oh, they're demons. Yeah, they're zombies. We have to kill them. What are you talking about? What are you even talking about? I thought really her defense, and we're going to hear her defense, but I think the only defense, if you want to be a defense attorney, have any hope is...

is to say she was a victim of a cult leader. Yeah, brainwash. She was brainwashed. She was groomed. She was told this. Once she was told that they were gone, she really believed they were in a better place. And that might be able to...

well she's not up for the death penalty is she i think they removed that because there was something with the evidence but what's interesting is i was asking my good friend mike king who's a former fbi profiler about this because he's been following it closely too and i said originally lori and chad's trials were supposed to be together then they severed them so i'm like

If Lori, whether she gets convicted or not here, how is that going to impact his? Because say if she is exonerated and found not guilty, he's kind of a shoo-in for being guilty no matter what because they're going to have to have a fall guy. Oh, yeah, definitely. But if she's guilty, then can he bring with his defense, it was all Lori. I had nothing to do with it. Right. I was pussy whipped into murdering her kids so we could spend more time in Hawaii. I know. She told me this.

Yeah, I mean, that would be the only defense you... That's the only defense you can do is point the finger at each other. But I think they were... My sister, the criminal defense attorney, Shannon McDonell Goldstein, she's like...

Sometimes the worst thing is when two psychos get together. Yeah. Whether they meet in prison, whether they meet on the streets, whether they're in a romance. I mean, there's a history, and I'm sure you've studied, of romantic couples that kill together. Or bring in somebody for the guy to rape, but then they kill them together. Who's that one? Carla...

The Canadian couple. The Canadians are the most famous and they killed the girl's sister. Yep. And then they brought in the girl. Raped and killed the sister. Yeah. Yeah. Because he was like attracted to her. He wanted to take her virginity. And she's like, yeah, go ahead. We'll drug my sister at Christmas Eve or whatever it was. And there were two little girls, the Slender Man girls. Oh, yeah. That were like that found that were both mentally ill, both bipolar. They found and there was another one where two girls killed a third of a silver party. And said, we'll go on three. Yeah.

Yes. Yeah. And, and it truly is that had they not like the way it worked is like, honestly, had they not been in the same classroom and become friends, they probably wouldn't have come to a place of murder. It's literally that the two, like two horrible people met up. It's unbelievable. Yeah. Okay. So I want to get into this catfish case because I really want to get your case. Okay. So we're going to take a quick little break and then we're going to jump right in.

Today's episode of Serialistly is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Now, most of you listening right now are probably multitasking. Yes, I know you are. While you're listening to me talk, you're probably also driving, cleaning, exercising, or maybe even grocery shopping. But if you are not in some kind of moving vehicle, there is something else you can be doing right now, getting an auto quote from Progressive Insurance.

It's easy, and you could save money by doing it right from your phone. Drivers who save by switching to Progressive save nearly $750 on average. And auto customers qualify for an average of seven discounts. Discounts for having multiple vehicles on your policy, being a homeowner, and more. So just like your favorite podcast, Progressive will be with you 24-7, 365 days a year, so you're protected no matter what.

Multitask right now. Quote your car insurance at Progressive.com to join the over 28 million drivers who trust Progressive. Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and Affiliates. National average 12-month savings of $744 by new customers surveyed who saved with Progressive between June 2022 and May 2023. Potential savings will vary. Discounts not available in all states and situations.

Go to ssa.gov slash extra help.

paid for by the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services. So this is a case that just happened recently, and it's a catfishing case, but it's not about like catfishing for love. It's catfishing for murder. So I'm going to read you some of the headlines and we'll just kind of talk through it. So Alaska woman pleads guilty to killing her friend in a catfishing scheme involving $9 million.

okay so it says according to an article from the new york post a 22 year old woman named delani brenner thought she was in an online relationship with a millionaire named tyler but tyler was really a 21 year old kid named darren so

Have you heard this? I kind of do, but keep with all the explaining. Okay. So back in 2019, in June, Darren, who's from Indiana, offered Denali $9 million to allegedly rape and murder somebody from Alaska and send him videos and photos of her doing it. So this girl thinks she's in this online relationship with this millionaire. And he's like, I really want you to like go rape and kill someone. And then I'll give you $9 million. Go do it.

And this girl doesn't. And she recruits her friends. So she recruited two juveniles to partake in the killing and said that she would pay them out like pieces, parcel the money out. So let me get to this part now. It says, so Denali, a 16-year-old named Caden and others conspired to kill 19-year-old Cynthia Hoffman, who, this is really sad, who reportedly thought of Denali as her best friend. And even worse, Cynthia was reportedly developmentally disabled.

So they lure their disabled friend in who thinks that this is her best friend and she's plotting and conspiring to kill her and rape her so that she can get this payout from her catfish millionaire boyfriend.

So they do kill her. They do kill her. And then what happened? So apparently they were all like, all the kids were driving around smoking weed in Anchorage Falls. Thinking what they're going to do with their nine million. Yeah. And like with Cynthia and Cynthia has no idea what's going on. They're all smoking together. Oh, before she gets killed. Before she gets killed. Then they park. They all agree to duct tape each other and take photos. Even Cynthia agrees to that for whatever reason.

reason just maybe going along with it who knows and then they tied up her hands and wrists and covered her mouth with duct tape so when they removed that she said she was going to call the police but then that's apparently when they shot her in the back of the head so that she couldn't call and then they pushed her body into the river and then they send the photos to the supposed billionaire whatever yeah saying give me my money and uh hi jokes on you he's really a 21 year old kid from indiana that was just that was just fucking around online

Is that not unbelievable? And so now are they all on trial? They all, yeah, they ended up going in the, so February of 2023, Denali pleaded guilty at the end to fatally shooting her friend and then dumping her body. So I think she's the only one because she pulled the trigger that got time. Nobody else did. Or they had like reduced sentence. Yeah. So I need to, I don't think they've all gone through it yet, but.

It's crazy because I've heard a lot of crazy cases, but like catfishing for love. Sure. I've heard of that, which like you're a moron if you're like still getting catfished in 2023, in my opinion. Like there's FaceTime, there's a million things to do. But like for murder with somebody you've never met, like not that it's okay to murder somebody for somebody you have met. There's so many elements of it. There's the catfish, there's the dating. Right.

there's the you know recruiting people to get them to do something and then there's so and then there's the saddest part is thinking that somebody's your friend yeah and then add being like lured out and add that she's developmentally delayed I always remember like something that just stuck with me was like the saddest made for TV movie when I was like a little first of all I had no like supervision as far as TV I remember hearing so I could watch anything and there was like some really bad made for TV movies when I was young

And I forgot the name of the actor, but he was a star of like roots. And anyway, there was a movie where he was developmentally delayed. And I think it was also hard of hearing. And he was like in prison and the guys are like, Hey, we want to be your friend. And he's like, yeah. And then they like take him in a room and they raped him. I was like, saw this at eight. Anyway, it was so sad. This is like ABC primetime, but it was so sad because I was like,

his face of thinking that these are his friends. And it reminded me of the awful case of the beautiful girl in, in Mexico. I don't know if it's Cabo where she went with her friends and. And then they're like, Oh, she drank too much. She died. And then they were like, Oh, we got an autopsy. She has a broken spinal cord and her neck was broken. And there's video of a girl beating her up and the guys that they're with filming it. Yeah.

And I'm like, I think this was a case of, I totally think this was premeditated. Absolutely. And I think if people investigate, I bet this pretty girl was either seeing the girl who killed her boyfriend or she thought she was, or the boyfriend thought, you could have even said that she was hot and the girl didn't even know. And she was like, oh, I'm going to get this fucking bitch back. Probably didn't mean to kill her. But.

but was hitting her for it and then realized she went too far and she died. But here this girl thought these, I just don't think there's anything worse than thinking that people are your friends and they're not. I agree. It's really sad. There's a lot of cases too, like the Gannon Stout case that I was talking about at the beginning where it's like,

not only the friend element, but the family. Imagine being there as a child, seeing the person who you love, who's protecting you, trying to kill you and suffocating you. And that's like your last moment and your last memory. It's like, you'd be scared the betrayal you would feel. It's horrible that people take advantage of that. And like people's emotions to lure them and to just be, I don't know, awful to them. It's so sad. And I mean, yeah, awful. So, um,

Okay, so this girl, where are we on this one? She's on trial? She's been convicted? Yeah, she's now been convicted. For how long? Life? I think she got life, yeah. Yeah, I would think so. I know, but awful. Okay, so now I know you've heard, we talked a little bit before we started recording about this case, the OnlyFans case. Yes. Courtney Clunney slash Taylor, the OnlyFans model who stabbed her boyfriend and he died and it's been like a huge controversy because so many people, she claims self-defense and she claims

claims grooming, exploitation, all these things. But then everybody's like, no, they're actually with all the footage and the elevator footage, it shows that you were the one who was like... She was the aggressor. Yeah, absolutely. And he was just like, get the hell away from me, you crazy drunk bitch. Yeah. Yeah. And she had said that when she threw the knife, it was from 10 feet away. And that because he was stabbed in like an artery in his shoulder or like in the chest slash shoulder area. And she originally had said, I threw the knife at him from 10 feet away. And it just...

happened to stick and come like, okay, I've been to axe throwing places. I know. So with like a kitchen knife with the flimsy blade, I don't think so. I don't think so. Because there was more than, so was there only one stab? I think there was only one. Maybe there was two. Like he wasn't repeatedly stabbed, but it was just where it got.

him but she was trying to say that she threw it and it stuck in deep enough just in the right place I'm like you're not a professional knife thrower first of all that's definitely not and they proved that I don't know that's I think that is gonna be you know they gotta prove beyond a reasonable doubt and

I think this is going to be a hard one. I think that defense has a chance. You do. I do. Even with all the footage that they're bringing, because they have now the elevator footage from like the day before leading up to it and showing her punching him, hitting him, like always being the aggressor. But then on the other hand, this could be like...

Because I think she's the pretty white blonde girl and he's the black guy too. I think that they don't want to side with her. Yeah. Because they want to be like, come on, let's not do another cliche where we don't, you know, believe the black guy. You know, I mean, I think there could be that element, even if it's not discussed among the jurors in their mind of being like, no, I really want to do what's right. But I don't know. Like,

Well, we haven't heard her defense yet. No. So once her defense comes, if they have some evidence that really there was a toxic relationship or domestic violence on both sides or physical stuff, or I mean, when people are like this hot and this young and your job is only fans, I'm sure every fight was you were looking at that girl. Let me see your phone. Oh, you were cheating or da, da, da, da.

And it erupts. Well, that's what happened. So he went out to and this isn't funny, obviously, but he went out to get them subway. And it was like, I think, 430 in the afternoon or something like that. But he didn't come back till two hours later. So she was basically saying, like, where the hell have you been? Where do you go to fuck some girl? And then it just spiraled into, you know, him being killed. Right. Right.

Horrible. But yeah, so she's claiming that their self-defense, she said that he had- She's also claiming she was very hungry, probably. Probably. Hey, sometimes I want to do it. I would do a lot of things for a foot long. When I'm hungry, I'm a real fucking bitch. Also what my husband does is he'll take out the app and he'll be like, okay, what do you want from whatever Uber Eats?

And I'll be like, okay, I want the sizzling shrimp bowl, whatever. And I say it on very specific. And he's like, okay. And then like a chicken burrito comes. I'm like, why did you ask me? Yeah, that seems like an epic fail. Why don't even ask me? They're going to be all excited for what I thought. I'm going to eat it. But like. I'm still going to eat it. But I want the shrimp bowl. God damn it.

Anyway, I mean, thank God I'm not a good knife thrower. No, honestly. I've never even gone to one of those axing things. Are those still a thing? I've seen them in every reality show. I know. I've been once in my life. I think it was like four years ago, which like it felt like probably the butchiest thing I've ever done in my life. And I wasn't good at it. And it's like, wait. And then there's also the other thing I've never done is the mystery room or get out the escape room. Yeah. I don't think I've done that either.

That's got to be turning over. That real estate's got to be available. I've gone to every escape room. Every kid's had their 12th birthday there. What else is there? Hey, my husband did make me go to laser tag not too long ago. We used to do laser tag. Well, yeah, we used to have to go with our sons. Yeah, laser tag. But not your adult husband. Yeah, yeah.

I still like the Busters. What's it called? Game and Busters. Yeah. Hey, you know what? I think that's a perfect thing for everybody. You can bring your adult husband. You can just drink and play Mario Kart all day. Yeah, you can have some drinks. I will say I enjoyed the laser tag. Not to roast on too much. And I was number one out of the whole, everybody. Remember paintballing? What happened with that? I've never been paintballing either. That was a thing. But that was a thing. Yeah. I wonder if that's still around.

I don't know how we got onto this. Oh, the axe throwing. Okay, okay, let me move along. Today's episode of Serialistly is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Now, most of you listening right now are probably multitasking. Yes, I know you are. While you're listening to me talk, you're probably also driving, cleaning, exercising, or maybe even grocery shopping. But if you are not in some kind of moving vehicle, there is something else you can be doing right now, getting an auto quote from Progressive Insurance.

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Okay, so now we're going to talk about Megan Boswell. Okay. And let me fill you in on this case. She's being referred to as the Casey Anthony 2.0, which after that, I want to get your thoughts on the peacock special. Oh, I saw that too, yeah. Because it's like, I have a lot of opinions of that. But let me go through Megan Boswell. So it's been about three years now, and it was her 15-month-old daughter, Evelyn, and an Amber Alert was issued, and she was missing. The grandfather had called and contacted police, saying, I haven't seen my granddaughter, Evelyn, since Thanksgiving. It's now February. Okay.

Her mom, my daughter is lying. Like I can't figure out what the truth is because Megan was saying she's with a nanny. She's with my mom. She's with all these people and nothing was obviously true in any of this. Zanny the nanny. Zanny the nanny. Exactly. So and Megan's a teenager herself. So that's obviously a red flag. So how old was she when she had her? Like only 15 I think.

Must have been 15 or 16. Yeah, very young. And so Evelyn's like the cutest little girl in the world. I wish I had a picture, but 15 months old. So she did all of these bizarre interviews where she was doing, you know, kind of the telltale things, pleading like she loved baby shark. She did this talking in past tense a lot, but being like, I just want her home. Then the next interview, she's like, well, I know who took her and I can't say who, but I'm going to have to tell the police to come do their job. Like if they can't figure out, like very weird. Yeah.

cryptic kind of like casey did when she's like yes she's with zanny then she with all these things um but then and this is where it gets bad they ended up of course finding evelyn's body it was tightly wound in a blanket with aluminum foil around it and stuffed into a trash can inside a playhouse on the family property that was a playhouse that was built for megan as a child it once they did the autopsy evelyn was stuffed in there still alive and when they pulled her out

her head was a bit bent had been shoved in so tight her head was bent back so far that the back of her head was touching her spine

I know. It makes me sick thinking about it. So how long was she gone for? They didn't find her for, I want to say it was several months. Since the grandpa said it. Oh, but she had been missing from like Thanksgiving time. So for all those months, it wasn't, the police weren't looking for her when she was in the play thing. Not until they started to do like a real investigation. And realized like none of this was adding up. And then they shortly found her after on the property. Yeah.

I know. And now Megan's in jail, obviously facing all these charges, but her trial keeps getting pushed back. So now she's not even going to trial until February, 2025. And what's up? But she's behind the bars. Yeah. She's behind bars. And her mom was arrested too, not for participating in any of it, but her mom was like a criminal as well. It was like robbing her mother's house and with her boyfriend, like just all these, just all bad, all bad.

Um, and Megan had been trying to blame the biological father where he was actually stationed away the entire time, which that didn't make sense, but just lie after lie. So everybody's calling her, of course, Casey Anthony 2.0 because of that, just because of the lying. So that brings me to the Peacock documentary. Yes. What did you think about the documentary and about her saying that her dad killed Kaylee and that he was like sexually abusive and all of these things when she was a child?

Do you believe it? And I know we don't want to like shame anybody or like say, we don't believe you. So I remember that was the surprise defense at the end that it was him and that she was molested and that the drowning happened. But in watching it, I thought it was crazy because I saw like Rosie O'Donnell afterwards that was like, I believe her. And I'm like, you know, you watch these documentaries and I'm like,

I mean, I single-handedly think, like, Netflix docs has, like, ruined, like, religion for everybody. Like, you see now, and you're like, I don't even think, like, how can I go to church anymore? Like, it's just, like, you watch these things, and you're just kind of like... So, obviously, they were going to do a narrative that...

to keep you interested. If the narrative was everything we've already seen that she clearly is guilty, then, you know, it wouldn't be interesting. So she tells her story, but there's like all these holes. And I think the biggest hole was when she said, and then I woke up from the nap and my daughter wasn't next to me. And I look for her and my dad's holding her and she's had fallen into the water. And he's like, don't worry, I'll fix her. And I'm like, well,

So then what were you, you never asked your dad, like, how's the Pinocchio doctor doing? Like, did you literally like, where did she go? Like you didn't, you know, oh, well I'm taking her to the special doctor and I was so dumb. And I mean, there was no explanation of why you would believe your dad. There was no part where he said, now remember if you tell anybody about the, I mean, even if she would have, like, if this was the lie, I would have needed to hear,

After that, he was like, listen, she's gone. But like, play along or I'm gonna fucking kill you. There wasn't any. So it's like, do I think he was a cheater? Weird dad? Yes, I do. Were the parents kind of odd? Did they? So weird. Did they obviously cherish their granddaughter more than their daughter because it was their second chance to have like a perfect little angel relationship?

Yes. Like all of that makes sense. And is the guy that she's currently working for the investigator who believes her? Yeah. Because if he, if he chose not to believe her now, he chose to believe her and that's that he believes her. And like, sometimes you just don't want to know, like, you know, if you, and so I, um, no, I a hundred percent think, and I've always thought this, and I think that she didn't have a sitter for the night.

And I think she used to use Benadryl or something like that to get her daughter down. And I think she overdosed her.

And then I think in hiding the body, she tried to sort of make it look like possibly somebody else did it, but she was so dumb and it was all stuff from the house. And then what about like her lying saying where she worked at Disney World and then the nanny like just covering her tracks? Well, that is such an interesting thing because people that are pathological liars, whether they're your daughter or they're your boyfriend and they're cheating, they'll like lie about stuff unnecessarily. They'll be like,

oh, I had pizza for lunch. And, but they really had a Subway sandwich. And you're like, but why? There was no reason. There was no point. It's like, they just lie. They just lie. And they're, they're so comfortable lying. And yeah. And I mean,

You know, lying about having a place to go and a job that made her sound successful. And I work at Universal and this and that. And then what did you think about the tattoo? Yeah.

I mean, there's no... The living life. Yeah, the good life and dancing on tables. There's no way you're worried about your daughter and hoping that your father's like fixing her and getting her... Your party. She knew that she was gone. And then because she's a psychopath, in order to compartmentalize and get her through it, she was like, she's in a better place and I'm going to live my life. And I don't know when I'm going to have to answer to this. But in the meantime...

I want to go, you know, dance on tables and have this tattoo. But also at that time, she was stealing from people. I was just going to say, and write bad checks. She was writing bad checks. So it's very entitled that she could steal from her grandmother. She could steal from her roommate. And the fact that they said that she was a really good mom and really into the kid, I believe that too. I believe that she did love the kid. I don't believe she meant to kill her. But once she did with these type of –

psychopaths, they never will take responsibility. So then they just try to like make the best of it. And they're going to blame somebody. They're going to blame my mom who said she couldn't babysit my dad who whatever. And, um, and I don't, I, I don't, I do not believe that she was molested. I don't believe she was molested by the brother or the dad. And I truly think

It came to her being with probably so many sexual abuse victims in prison. And because that happens too. I remember...

Like, years ago, you know, there was a time when, like, in the 80s where everybody thought they were abused because you'd go to therapy or you'd... And then you'd, like, watch all these movies about, like, kids being abused. Then you would go to bed and have a dream and you might dream that you were abused. That's because you saw it on TV. Like, it doesn't mean that it happened. Totally. And so I think, like...

She might have dreamt it being that she's like in this horrible prison situation and then convinced herself of this story. And then her defense team was like,

This is the only hope for this chick. But the defense attorney, she then later on went on to say that the defense attorney and her fucked. Did you know that? I didn't know she ever confirmed it. Jose Baez? It was her. That was her story that got out that that's why he wants nothing to do with her. That's why he wasn't part of the doc. In my understanding, allegedly, this is what I recall reading, is that's why he wasn't part of the doc because he was like,

And, you know, yeah, he used that as a defense because that was the only defense. Yeah. But I don't think that they were dating after, you know, or whatever, but...

I also think, and tell me what you think, it could have been a coping mechanism the way she like kind of shut off and kept partying, doing all that. But what I found really interesting is not only that she was trying to blame the father, but there were parts of that doc where she would immediately show emotion, like when she parked out front of the apartments, and she would almost be angry about the lie she told, but like not angry with herself. She'd be like,

And that's the apartment where I said that Zanny lived. And you know how that went. Or like, to where I'm like, you're the one that told the lie. Yeah. What are you even talking about right now? And...

part of me which it's probably an unpopular opinion guys but I think part of the reason I think she went so hard with that narrative in this documentary too is because of the climate we've been in the last few years with so many people you believe first you ask questions later which I understand to an extent maybe sure but like I think she was like I need to paint myself as the victim I need to use this as a crutch because it's now the me too time and I can definitely any even if you're just like a celebrity that's fallen on some

unpopular times like just all of a sudden people kind of like lost interest in you became a little less relevant people thought you were a or whatever and then you go okay what's the thing that can get people to oh wait this is the worst thing that happened in my childhood um i'm going to talk about this time a relative died or whatever and then

And then you redeem yourself. And then everyone feels sorry for you and everyone relates to that. And then it's like, and then you can move on from that. So it's even like with the recovery, everything comes back to Sandoval, Sandoval and Raquel. But it was like, when this was all starting, I'm like, she's going to either say she was, if they don't stay together, she's either going to take the thing of like, I was groomed. I was convinced by this 40 year old man and dah, dah, dah, dah. If that isn't the case, she's going to go,

leave me alone i'm going to a mental facility and which you went to which is not a mental facility no it's where housewives go to burn some sage yeah it like is not that and and then he did you see what he just did his post he's mad because miraval posted like their bar yeah and it was and they took a line from the theme song and um he was like how dare you let people know that i've been here

Probably they shouldn't have done that, but it was already out that they were both going. But now I'm confused. Are they both there or are they not there? Or is he screwing Billy Lee? Did you see that? Oh my God, Billy Lee. I fucking can't. I mean, when you get to a place where Billy Lee emerges, like the thirstiest, Scandival's only friend. I don't even think she slept. There's pictures of her supposedly wearing the same outfit legally.

leaving his house in Valley Village because Ariana was still away or whatever Coachella. I wouldn't put it past Billy Lee to...

Call the paparazzi. He's like, hey, Sandoval, let's hang out. And he's like, okay. And they hang out. And then I could see her literally going home and then like coming back around and going through like a back alley in Valley Village and then acting like she slept over. Totally. Because I do not believe Sandoval wants to screw Billie Lee. No, and she's now doing interviews with Entertainment Tonight, like giving her exclusive. She's so excited. You know what she's doing right now, though? What?

Trying to be a stand-up. You're lying. You're lying. Can I have one fucking thing in this world? Okay. We're going to take a quick break.

Today's episode of Serialistly is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Now, most of you listening right now are probably multitasking. Yes, I know you are. While you're listening to me talk, you're probably also driving, cleaning, exercising, or maybe even grocery shopping. But if you are not in some kind of moving vehicle, there is something else you can be doing right now, getting an auto quote from Progressive Insurance.

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Go to ssa.gov slash extra help.

Paid for by the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services. I don't know if you've noticed this, but what I feel like I've noticed too is that a lot of the Gen Zers who maybe weren't around when the trial first was big and are just hearing about something, they're the ones who do believe her and have something very similar to the Menendez brothers. I don't know if you've seen that. Oh, I know all about them.

Now like that whole generation is basically and I don't know what the truth really was, but they're all saying they were abused. They're innocent. This and that. I 100% believe they were fully abused. You did by the dad? Yes. Wow. And they also were like, fuck these, this asshole. We're going to fucking kill him and we're going to get our money. Yeah. And we hate our complicit mom.

That makes sense. But I totally believe they were molested for a number of reasons. Oh my God, that's awful. One of the things that isn't really well known is there was this group called Menudo. Oh yeah, I know. The boy band. The boy band. And they would replace them as they got older. What? They were all supposed to be like 15, 16. So the minute that they aged out, they're out. And it was this Mexican like Backstreet Boys. Uh-huh.

The Menendez dad was like that. He was in the music industry and he was connected to that. And it's now come out that those boys were totally molested by management and stuff. The Menudo boys. Certain Menudo boys. Wow. Oh, God. And also there were stuff with the relatives and stuff that certain relatives that said like,

This, you know, there's certain families and machismo and stuff where and certain cultures where molesting the boys. It's like, I don't know. It's it's it's, you know, generational and it's accepted. It was a really sick thing. And the fact that so I mean, I, I believe all I think two things can be true. I think they were molested.

I think it really fucked him up. I think the dad was really awful and mean and powerful. And then I think they also were entitled rich brats from Beverly Hills who like stole from houses, didn't want to study when they got to college and,

And together again, two people coming together being like, let's do this together. Yeah. Probably just fueling each other through the stories and like hyping each other up to do it. And like, you know, I don't believe they thought they were going to be killed that night. Absolutely not.

They had a plan to kill them, but the reason for killing them is because they fucking had it. And they also were like, we're going to have a fun life once this asshole is killed. Well, didn't they start like spending right away? Weren't they buying like Rolexes? Cheesecake factory. Wait, what? It was a new hotspot at the time. What?

right there in Beverly Hills did they really go to Cheesecake Factory it went to Cheesecake Factory a lot but they also got Rolexes and they yeah all that kind of stuff is true okay and they were you know and they bought it at the big five and you know they got the guns there I mean yeah I'm not I mean 100% I don't believe that they thought it was going to be us or them that was their defense

And, you know, the famous, at the time, the defense attorney was a woman and she put them in sweaters to make them look younger even at this time. Oh, here's a juicy story. Oh, okay. Just remembering. So I'm like, whatever, in my 20s and I'm in the theater, Growling's Theater.

And my friend is this gay guy and he like manages the Chateau Marmont. And he's like, what are you doing tonight? Do you want to come to the suite? And I had the suite for the night and it's the like Houdini suite where he like lived, whatever. So we go there. I'm like, fun. And there's this really cute guy and he's like a sitcom regular on Jenny McCarthy sitcom. Oh.

Okay. Okay. So we're getting drunk and whatever. And he starts to tell me that he came out here, you know, from Chicago with his girlfriend who was like a secretary or whatever. And they're out here and he's pursuing acting. And every day he came home and she'd be watching the Menendez trial. And all of a sudden the phone rings and it's like, will you accept a call from wherever some prison is?

And it was like, I can't remember if it was Eric or Lyle. Her name was Anna. You look it up. There's an Anna Menendez or something like it, something with an N. And, and there, and he's like, what? And then it was, she wrote, one of them pursued him, fell in love with him while he's trying to be an actor. So she ends up leaving the boyfriend who's supporting her.

And burying one of the Menendez brothers. Oh my God. And then...

She finds out he's cheating on her. How? Well, they couldn't even fuck. They didn't even get to have conjugal visits. With a guy? But no. No. Other people, other chicks love prison. I love. Well, no. There are a lot of people who love prison people. I'm so obsessed with women who want to date prisoners. And you know why? Because we're so fucked up. They're like, you know what? This guy has all day to write me letters and tell me how great I am.

My other boyfriend has to work all day. You know, I know where this fucker is. I have a date every Sunday and he's thrilled to see me. That's what you get when you date a prisoner. I agree. That's a great, that's a perk. Yes, the time and the attention and the attentiveness. But there are a lot of women who are like oddly obsessed with Chris Watts, which I don't like sickly obsessed with him. So let me finish this. Oh yeah, okay. So then, so he, so anyway, she finds out

that some other girl's coming and writing to him and stuff.

So then she is like, I'm out. And then like, I saw her interviewed once and she was like, I mean, he deceived our friends, just like Sandoval. He deceived our friends. I'm like, what friends? Were you having a dinner party with like the phone in the middle? Yeah. I'm like, oh, we have a couple's dinner tonight. Like what? You're doing life. You're never, they're never, ever going to get out. How would he even meet the friends? That makes no sense. The only thing I thought was cruel, unusual punishment as a mother of two boys is that they couldn't be put in the same prison together.

that is where I thought they were fucked. That is hard. At least let them be together. I see that. But at the same time, I feel like if they were together, wouldn't they conspire to escape or do something? Like, couldn't they be more toxic? I don't know. I don't know. I just thought it was mean. It is mean. It is mean. But I mean, I'm sure they weren't really fucking. Yeah. Then they had to like play chess and it would take like a year to like play the game because they'd have to like do it through the mail. And I was just like, I mean, even if,

Listen, even if my two boys conspire and kill me. You'd want them to be in prison together? Yeah, and at least they did something together. When you have two of the same kind, you hope that they're best friends. Like you guys are. Well, no, I die whenever you're on your podcast and you talk about your son is the spare. It kills me. You're like, I got my spare. Oh my God, you're a good mom. They're in the spare. Yeah, they're in the spare. Okay, the Chris Watts thing. Yes. Do you think

that the girl who the girlfriend whatever her name was Nicole Nicole who went into witness protection do you think she was part of it have you seen those YouTube conspiracies where you see part of her ponytail in the driveway and all that I do I don't know that she was involved in the murders or the disposal necessarily maybe like I don't know if she was planning if they planned it together or had a hand in it but I think she definitely knows more than she was saying yeah

I think she was there that night or into the early morning hours because remember her phone was pinging at like the tower that was right by the house, not by her work. Then she mysteriously didn't clock in that day and said she just, like there was so much noise

So many red flags throughout her version of the truth that didn't make sense to me. I actually thought that Raquel should go into witness protection. She probably should. For the same reasons that that Nicole girl should. And I think that was smart. But I think she was involved. How involved, we don't know. I think she gave everybody enough info that they're like, we got the guy. I mean, he did admit it. He did admit it. They got the dad to come in and make him admit it.

The thing that I saw most interesting about him is where this guy said he's a beta male, which I never really understood. Like a hood. Whenever people talk about alpha males and beta males, I really didn't understand what it is. I don't either. So an alpha male is like a guy that's like, I'm the man. I'm the head of the household. This is me. And.

And that's how I've lived my whole life. And that's been my role the whole life. And then there's guys that are beta males. It doesn't mean that they're a bad man, but they're more accepting of their partner, like being the leader. Like, and they said, you would offer a beta. It's a beta. Yeah.

It doesn't necessarily mean like my husband is definitely an alpha. Yeah. And everyone thinks I'm like this badass bitch. I'm like, you're not. No, I don't know. I heard the story you told about when they were on the ski trip and you had to call your son to verify that they were allowed to eat the donuts because you didn't believe Peter or something when the VRBO people. I called Drake because I said, I think that you pissed off the people when you ate the donuts. What happened was they went.

and got a VRBO on a trip I didn't go to. Because otherwise I'm like, I'm finally put down on my foot. Oh my God, Peter, my husband is inherently cheap. And he called me, he went to some Vegas thing. It was some Vegas thing for like audio equipment, cameras. I don't know, he went. He kind of went a little bit sick. And he called me and he goes...

oh my god do you know how much water is now in vegas i go what are you talking about i go you mean in the hotel room and he goes yeah and i go well if it's in the fridge and you barely touch it you're going to be charged but then sometimes they have a bottle of water and they're like free or it's like eight dollars and he goes well i mean i was just you know i have this cold i was just so thirsty i was so thirsty and i just didn't know you know and he's like and i thought about he thought about leaving his hotel he's deathly sick and going to cbs and

He finally just, and I'm like, why do we work so hard? Like if you get the water, but it's a real hard thing when you've been like cheap your whole life and it's rubbed off on me. Like, it's very hard for me to be like, girl, you know, get that appetizer. You're going to be okay. And you don't have to finish it. You fat fuck. Like you could just have a couple bites, but it's taken a long time to get there. So he,

He was like, guess how much? I'm like, $12. He's like, $25. What? At the Bellagio. Now, it must have been a big one. Like a Voss or something annoying? But like, it might have been glass. I don't know. Oh, probably. But it was $25. That is outrageous. He left Vegas early. His whole trip is ruined. Fuck the convention. I'm out of here.

Okay, but he's an alpha. That was the point. He's an alpha. Anyway, so the beta thing was this guy was saying, I think Chris Watts was a beta and he kind of got, and I do think, I think a big part of it is that she got sucked into that MLM. I was obsessed with the fact, sadly, Shauna, well, Shana, the victim. Shanann.

that she was part of like a fucking MLM with these patches, the thrive patches, the vegetable. And it's like, come on girl. And how much they harass you. I'm interviewing this girl in May that wrote a book about it, about MLM in general.

And it's called, you know, Hey hon, like, you know how they tell like, be a boss, babe. Yeah. The boss and the whole thing and the pressure. And, and then that they say, now make sure you like fake it till you make it. And you make sure that everything on Instagram, on Facebook. So they were living way beyond, beyond their means, even though he was making a nice living.

for what he was doing in that town because she was putting so and then she gets pregnant again while he's already having an affair with someone else so he's not happy and yeah and i always and that was like the like like he it was just a weird interesting dynamic of like analyzing him

But I mean, I just felt, I mean, it's just so horrible when you think about it. And he had like dropped a ton of weight. So I think he got like really confident. Then he had this girl who was, she was like offering him anal. Like it was the whole thing. Yeah. Nicole was. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Anal couldn't get you. Kill your wife. Yeah. Kill your wife. Get in that house. Kill your wife.

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And there was always like a detail about that case. I know is their unborn child. They named him Nico. Nico. I didn't like that. There was something weird. And maybe it's me just being super pessimistic. No, you know what that reminded me of?

Remember the Maroon 5? Oh, yeah. That scandal? That he was screwing this girl named Sumner and then he DM'd her and was like, hey, we're expecting our third baby. Thinking about the name Sumner. Is that weird or whatever? Yeah. Yeah, it's weird. I used to work for Adam Levine, actually. Really? Yeah. I did him and Beati's clothing line. So. I just love that he was just like, went to like the most expensive school in Brentwood, private Brentwood school. And then he's like, California! Yeah.

You guys are all like badass. Like you are not in a gang in Brentwood. You fucking loser. But I do like his songs. But whatever. I don't think I like them. Didn't somebody say it's like all elevator music now? I like it. Remember how we get so, why are people so mean about Nickelback? So mean about Nickelback.

That became like a solid joke for so long. And I'm like, I don't change the channel when it comes on. So what does that make me? Hey, Nickelback has some good tunes. I'm not mad at it. Yeah. OK, so now I have some rapid fire true crime questions for you. This is a new thing that I do on all the segments whenever we have a guest. So it's just something fun not to take it too seriously. Just go. OK, all right. How long do you have to explain? OK, who do you think killed JonBenet? Um.

I do still think it is the brother. And why do you think that? Brother, do not sue me. This is my alleged thought. Allegedly, yeah. Because that's all... He went after all those people that did... I think it comes down to the, you know, you took my fucking pineapple. Yeah. I think that he didn't mean to and I think he hit her and then they saw it and they panicked because...

They were like, we're not going to like lose our son too. And I don't even think he knows. What about the like mystery DNA that didn't match him that they found? Because that's something that everybody's like caught up on. But I still think Brooke too. I hope it's not the brother. I hope it's not the brother too. I think it absolutely could be a weirdo just like the Elizabeth Smart. Like I totally believe that I never thought it was the parents.

I did think for a while maybe the parents were covering up for the boy. Yeah. But I don't think it's the parents. I don't think so either. But the fact that, like, the ransom note was written on the kitchen notepad and, like, it seems weird. But I do think you could have grabbed a notepad. And it could have been someone who worked there. It could have been. Yeah.

i don't know like that's one of the questions i'll ask jesus when i meet him because i would like to know okay what's a recent case that has bothered you or like that you didn't appreciate the verdict on or that you were like what kind of would say that person's not guilty can't be casey anthony obviously a recent one that bothered me or that you like couldn't believe i don't really i can't think of one sorry that's all right that part out i just i can't think of one that like where i was like absolutely

No, I mean, I think they got the Murdaugh murders right. And do you think that he, and I think that the, you know, I think, and the Amber Heard case, the Amber Heard case was a little bit where people thought I was a sympathizer to Amber Heard. I wasn't, I was more like about the defamation. And I kind of really felt like the fact that she wrote the article and the other people published it. And then, you know,

how far it got into it and then it was and they made the jurisdiction not California if it was in California she would have had a better case but you know I do think she shit in the bed I think she shit in the bed too that case was such a shit show no pun intended okay so if you had to move a body who would you call

lala oh my god probably my son drake oh he's the biggest strongest and i definitely think he would help me out providing it's not his dad okay all right fair enough uh do you think brian laundry's parents knew that he killed gabby yes yeah especially with the note i mean a hundred percent and i don't know what to say about that i i don't know what it's like to have to be a mother of someone who is either you know mass shooter kills his girlfriend

You know, I know a family where the guy, the girlfriend, and he broke up and he went and like killed the girlfriend. Oh my gosh. And they would all visit him in prison and they were like very religious. And it's just a horrible thing to be. It doesn't mean that you were a bad parent. I mean, you know what I mean? So it's like, so if I, I just, I don't.

I don't know. I mean, I feel badly that they didn't like let the parents know sooner instead of having them search. But I also just feel like... I do think it's weird that they're trying to sue the city for saying... Because they're like, well, if she actually hit him, why didn't you arrest her? And I'm like, okay, come on. These cops are 25 years old. Like, I just don't believe that it was their fault. Right. Because...

at the same time he did say go go away and call your parents and she didn't call the parents and i understand why she didn't because that's what it is when it's domestic violence and stuff but i knew the minute i mean i knew the minute i heard that they were engaged but then they broke off the engagement that they still stayed together i'm like that makes no sense that makes no sense because why wouldn't you just say we're staying engaged we're just not gonna get married for like three years yeah but why would you say we're no longer engaged that tells me like you like

you're done with him but he's begging you to go on this trip yep and uh but i you know we still don't know who killed the lesbians no they did find the guy oh who was that who was it was like some some random but it wasn't connected no i didn't think it was him yeah it was some random but um yeah so i feel like yeah i think they knew and they just didn't know how to deal with it and

You know, and I, but, but there was no evidence that they were trying to like get him to like run away to Mexico. Like, um, no, like get out. Oh, I know the one Lacey Peterson. Oh, okay. I can talk about Lacey Peterson. Why? What bothers you about that? For the rest of my life. Freddie Broderick. So good. Wait. So what bothers you about Lacey Peterson?

I still am not 100% convinced it was Scott Peterson. A lot of people think that. Yeah. Yeah, a lot of people think that. Because there were like a string of robberies in the neighborhood, right? And like there was... And I do think there's people who don't kill their wife and when she goes missing or is dead, could be a little happy about it. And was like, well, this is a nice, this is a nice coinkidink. People are going to be in your comments, what happened?

They're going to talk about the boat and the concrete and all that. But there is a lot that makes me wonder. It wasn't a nice area. There were other women missing. There were women, the Latino women, non-white women that just didn't get any press that were pregnant and missing. Oh, I didn't even know that. Yes. Oh, maybe.

Maybe we need to just do deep there about that. So I do think there is something to it. And I don't also blame him for trying to go to Mexico. Yeah. Your life's over. Yeah, at that point your life's over. Your life is over. You can go to Mexico or you can kill yourself or unalive yourself. Why can't we say that? I honestly, I know YouTube is even worse. You can't say, there's so much you can't say.

But like that word. It's so stupid. But it is a vocabulary word. I know. That's been used forever. I know. We were talking about that earlier today. Take it out. I don't know. No, it's fine. But like I just think that like to say unalive like as if that makes it any better. I don't know. I know. It's really stupid. I agree. Well, speaking of like fleeing and going to Mexico, what do you think Raquel should do? What's your next move be? Um.

I honestly don't think she'll be asked back. You don't? I think that he will, doesn't care enough about her at all. They're not even committed right now, but they will not get rid of him. He has his connection to the two bars with Tom Schwartz and he will try to redeem himself. I know all of them hate him and really don't want to fuck with him at all, but they will keep him around and they'll,

but there's no way they can keep both of them. Unless they were actually dating. Yeah, there's no storyline. The only way they could stay together and people to forgive them is if she got pregnant with this baby. That's the only way because then people would be like, you know what? There's an innocent child. Even though it started out of deception, it was meant to be. And then people could forgive it and like embrace that she's a mother.

So if she wants to stay on the show, she has got to get off the pill, have a screw her, and then put her legs up for 45 minutes. Perfect. Beautiful. You know what? And that's a great place to wrap this up.

So while her legs are up in the air for 45 minutes, can you let everybody know all things Juicy Scoop, where to find you, what the deal is? The show is Juicy Scoop. It's also on YouTube. Please subscribe to my channel. Yes. And so you can watch it as well every Tuesday and Thursday. I also have an incredible Patreon, which is every Friday. And then there's another tier that is just a couple dollars more.

And that's two juicy crimes every month with different people from defense attorneys to Matt Murphy I've had on my show and Dr. Drew and whatnot. And then, um, and then it get me behind Gates level, which is like my most personal, like juicy, like celebrity stuff. So that's all there. And then my live show is also just go to HeatherMcDonald.net to join the Patreon, to see the YouTube and then all my shows that I've got Vegas, May 27th.

which will be a live juicy scoop with Spencer Pratt. We're going to do Hollywood conspiracy theories and Illuminati and shit like that, which he knows about. And we've got with Chris Pangella and Justin, who are two great comedians. I have a Humphreys by the Bay in San Diego, which is my biggest venue. So I need people to come. That's in June. Get your tickets. Go ahead. That's in June. Napa in July. Irvine Improv, which you guys will come to in August. Oh yeah,

And then a bunch of theaters on the East Coast in August too. Great. So everything's at heathermcdonald.net. Oh, and San Francisco and Sacramento. I can't believe I remembered them all, but whatever. Good job. I love that. Who cares? We love it. All right, guys. So you just heard it from Heather herself, where to follow her, where to find her.

everything she has coming up so do me a favor and go quickly give her a follow on instagram and subscribe to her youtube page for juicy scoop where you can see all of her podcast episodes in video format and make sure you let her know in the comments that you came from this channel and that you are a tend to lifer or you are a serialist listener and give her some love because we absolutely love heather and we want to support her as a group thank you so much for coming and thank you everybody for listening to another episode of serialistly and i will see you next monday all right

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