5: Lori Vallow & Chad Daybell: Part 2. “The Devil At Work"
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Buckle up and crank up that volume. This is Serialistly with Annie Elise. Hey guys, happy Monday. My name is Annie Elise, your true crime BFF, and welcome back to an all new episode of Serialistly.

We have got a lot to talk about today, guys. We are going to be talking, of course, all things true crime, but we are doing a follow-up today to part one of the insane Lori Vallow and Chad Daybell saga. We covered part one last week, so if you have not listened to that one yet,

highly, highly, highly suggest that you go give that a quick listen and then come back over here because today we are doing part two and we are following up on everything. So basically, the trial has already started and we're like knee-deep in the evidence phase. There's a lot of witness testimony going on. So what we're doing in part one and part two of these episodes is we're going through every single shady situation, crazy red flag that was leading up

to the trial beginning so that you can get really more grounded in who Lori and Chad are, all things that they had done because there were so many details that the public really wasn't even familiar with and so many red flags that the public didn't even know. And so we're going through all of that so that you can have like a full understanding A to Z of this insane case as the trial is underway. And it just, we're going through all of the twisted and psychotic things that they said,

that they did leading up to where we are today. It's just, it's going to be a lot. It's going to be a crazy one, guys. So again, I want to just give you a quick reminder that you can watch the video version of this podcast episode over on my YouTube channel, 10 to Life. That is one zero and then the words

to life. But serialist Lee, the podcast is streaming on all podcast platforms. So listen to the audio version. But if you want the video version so that you can see the pictures that we're referencing videos that we're referencing things like that, hop on over to YouTube, but make sure that you're following along on this podcast so that you do not miss an episode on the mysterious case that involves two missing children, three suspicious deaths and a multi state investigation. Lori's like gasoline. Chad is the match.

This story is insane. There's religion, sex, murder. We have one brother, John. Multiple marriages, multiple deaths. Two kids are in the center of it. Her idea was for her to get rid of the zombies. Are you guys innocent of any crimes? Have you committed any crimes? Chad, Lori, can you tell me where your kids are? Would you tell me what happened to JJ? Can you tell me where Tylee is?

She's now trying to leave the 144,000 as we get closer to the end of the world. I don't know how someone can actually believe that. Is JJ safe? He is safe and happy. I know exactly where he is.

So now let's recap really quickly what nut jobs Lori Vallow and Chad Daybell are. And also Lori's brother Alex, who's really intertwined with these two. It's really like the trifecta of just like nutty nut cases. So Lori claimed to have this personal connection with God in a way of where God was speaking to her that she was the chosen one. She had told one of her friends that she was told by God to protect her.

She had said that she had a vision, that she could create storms, create fire, and that she will have the eye of the Lord. She also claimed that her husband Charles was blocking her quote-unquote gifts from God. And Lori believed that she was an exalted goddess and that she was directed to lead the 144,000 with Chad to prepare for the end of the world.

Both Chad and Lori believed that they had extraordinary abilities, including teleportation, causing harm to others, calling up natural disasters, praying away demonic spirits, and having visions. Like I said, guys, nut jobs. And very indicative, in my opinion, of cult-like behavior. They thought they were the chosen ones, but don't all cult members and all cult leaders think that?

So now we left off with JJ and Tylee's bodies being discovered on Chad's property, and this was in early summer of 2021. So what was happening behind closed doors for all of those months from when Lori's husband Charles was killed, their move to Rexburg, Idaho, and when the children initially went missing?

We're going to examine the behavior and the movements of Lori, Chad, and Lori's henchman brother, Alex Cox, during that year-long time frame and what was really going down behind the scenes.

So Charles had sent messages to an unidentified person back in June of 2019 saying that he was fighting a crazy train who he's married to until he can get the heck out of there. And he also included in that message is saying it's stunning what she's trying to do to other people in our family.

Then a few days later on June 29th, 2019, Charles actually discovered that fictitious letter that Lori sent as if it were him asking Chad Daybell to come to Arizona to help him write a book. She sent this email posing as her husband, Charles.

Charles. That same day, Charles sent an email to Adam Cox, not to be confused with Alex Cox, but to Adam Cox, Lori's other brother, claiming that Lori and Chad were up to something, that he knew something wasn't quite right. And he accused Lori of creating these false email accounts on his behalf and sending these emails to Chad.

So when Charles discovered all of this, he told Lori to come clean about her relationship with Chad. And he said, come clean by the end of the day with the relationship, or I'm going to inform Tammy Daybell, who is Chad's wife, of this affair. Something's going on. You need to come clean. Otherwise, I'm blowing the lid off of everything. So after Charles gives Lori this ultimatum, basically saying, come clean or else I am going to spill everything, Charles and Lori's brother Adam intended to confront her.

and ultimately get her recommend card, which is required to enter any LDS temple, they were going to get that card taken away from her. But before they could do this intervention that they were planning to hold, Lori found out about it.

it. She found out about it a couple of weeks later after they had planned it on July 9th, and she, of course, immediately went and sought out help from several people. Two people specifically, including Chad Daybell and her other brother, Alex Cox. And that is what set everything into motion.

Two days later, after she discovered this planned intervention, on July 11th, Charles went to Lori's home to pick up JJ Vallow and Tylee Ryan. Allegedly, Lori and Charles got into a very heated exchange, and Alex intervened in order to de-escalate the situation.

Alex said that Charles hit him on the back of the head with a baseball bat at one point during this fight and that he ultimately responded by fatally shooting Charles with a handgun in an effort of self-defense. That same day, though, get this, as this was all happening, this self-defense fictitious fight, I believe it was fictitious, I believe it was all a setup,

That same day, Chad called an Arizona funeral home, literally almost 12 hours after Charles was killed. And he tried to be, he was trying to pretend to be somebody else and even spelled his name as D-A-B-A-L rather than D-A-Y-B-E-L-L.

And he was asking how much a cremation would cost. And he made a few other comments really just showcasing the fact that he was 100% trying to impersonate some fake person that he conjured up in his head. And take a listen, because this is truly unbelievable. Hello, my name is ******. I'm with their calls. How can I help you today?

We just had our death in the family and we really don't want anything but a cremation and then to send the cremains to a family in Louisiana. It's just a simple, no nothing other than a cremation and sending him to the family for service in Louisiana. So is there any way to know a ballpark price on that? Yes. And I'm sorry for the loss.

Um thank you. Okay let me transfer you over to the director who can assist you with the pricing. What is your name please? It is Chad Daybell. How do you spell the last name please? D-A-D-A-L Daybell. How are you related to the person at house? I am his nephew. And then also this is for the Valerie of the Sons and Chandler correct?

Yes. Thank you. Yes, she lives there in Chandler. I live in Iowa. Oh, okay. Thank you. Yes, what is your uncle's name for reference, please? He is John Babel. And what's his name? John Babel. Okay. His name is John. Do you have a middle name? Myron. M-Y-R-O-N?

Yeah. And, Chan, what is your phone number in case you get disconnected? Yeah, just number 515. I don't actually know my own number. Um, I'll be back real quick. Thank you. Thank you. Is he at a nursing home, hospital, or residence?

He passed away in a hospital. I don't know the details. I'm just calling. Yeah, it's just for to know because sometimes it's different if it's a residential or hospital or nursing home. I'm thinking of sending him to the medical examiner. I'm not sure. I should have had more information before I called. That's okay. Reformation.

With shipping. To which city? New Orleans. Okay, one moment please Chad, stay on the line. Let me transfer you over to the director who can assist you with that. Alright, thank you. Hello Chad? Yeah. Thank you for holding. I do have the director, Clarissa, to assist you.

Okay, thanks. Thank you. Hi, I'm the... You know, director with the... Cemetery. I understand that your uncle passed away. Yes. And I... I'm just... starting the process for the family. He didn't have many relatives. I'm his nephew. I live in Iowa. But what they wanted to do... I'm sorry to hear that. Yeah. They had to see Joe...

I think he's going to the medical examiner. I don't know all the details. So guys, this is where things go from bad to diabolical. But before we get there, we are going to take a quick break because I just need to stretch my legs really quick. This chair is really cramping me up.

Today's episode of Serialistly is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Now, most of you listening right now are probably multitasking. Yes, I know you are. While you're listening to me talk, you're probably also driving, cleaning, exercising, or maybe even grocery shopping. But if you are not in some kind of moving vehicle, there is something else you can be doing right now, getting an auto quote from Progressive Insurance.

It's easy and you could save money by doing it right from your phone. Drivers who save by switching to Progressive save nearly $750 on average. And auto customers qualify for an average of seven discounts. Discounts for having multiple vehicles on your policy, being a homeowner, and more. So just like your favorite podcast, Progressive will be with you 24-7, 365 days a year, so you're protected no matter what.

Multitask right now. Quote your car insurance at Progressive.com to join the over 28 million drivers who trust Progressive. Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and Affiliates. National average 12-month savings of $744 by new customers surveyed who saved with Progressive between June 2022 and May 2023. Potential savings will vary. Discounts not available in all states and situations. An official message from Medicare.

Go to ssa.gov slash extra help.

Paid for by the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services. Now that Charles has been killed, let's go into the timeline. The movements, the specific actions of Lori, Alex, and Chad. The actions that took place from the moment Charles died until when the children were found on Chad's property. And everything that Lori, Chad, and Alex were doing behind the scenes in secret, weaving their web of lies and just complete deceit.

Back on June 3rd, 2019, Lori texted a friend saying, And this message was a precursor of what was about to unfold with the children.

Then a couple of months later, on August 9th, 2019, JJ's service dog was put up for sale. Bailey, a golden doodle who was JJ's service dog, was put up for sale for $2,500. Why would you be getting rid of a service dog that you need for this young child?

A couple of weeks later, on August 30th, 2019, the older brother of Tylee, Colby Ryan, spoke to his sister Tylee via FaceTime for the very last time. Any time after that that he tried to make contact with Tylee, Lori said that Tylee was unavailable to talk. This is the last contact that Colby ever had with his sister.

Then the next day, on August 31st, 2019, Lori took JJ and Tylee from Chandler to Rexburg, Idaho. This is where Chad Daybell lived with his wife and his children, in Rexburg, Idaho.

Lori is now flocking up all the way to where the cult leader lives, which you can only imagine and guess what's going to happen next. She's going after him, wants to be with him, but he's still married and he still has his kids around. So what's the next plan? How are they going to get Tammy out of the way? We're going to get there. A couple of days later on September 3rd, 2019, the principal of Kennedy Elementary School in Rexburg said that Lori enrolled JJ in the second grade.

Then, two days later, September 5th, 2019, Lori told JJ's former school that she actually got a job promotion in California and that that's the reason for his withdrawal from his original school and the move. She also tells the former school that Charles Vallow died a month earlier from taking his own life.

Both complete untrue statements. First of all, Charles did not take his own life. He was killed by Lori's brother, by a gunshot wound. So why would you need to lie about that if it was self-defense, if Alex was just protecting you guys? But she does. She lies and she says that Charles took his own life, painting him as, you know, whatever she wants to paint him as.

She also says that she got a job promotion in California, so that's why she was pulling JJ out of school and why they were moving. But they're not even moving to California. They're moving to Idaho, and it's not for a job or not for a job promotion. So why are you already laying the footwork to lie about your whereabouts? It doesn't make sense, and it smells really fishy.

Now, what's interesting too is that just a couple of days later, Lori, Alex Cox, her brother, JJ, and Tylee take a day trip. And this was the infamous day trip to Yellowstone National Park. And a photo from Lori's iCloud account on this date is the last time that investigators can find any record of Tylee being alive. This photo, in my opinion, was taken as...

proof of life kind of photo that's what I personally believe and to act as though there's some happy family that they were going on this trip to Yellowstone but it is the last time that anybody has been able to put a time stamp to Tylee being alive and what's also very alarming with this is that during this time Lori's best friend Melanie Gibb said that Lori had referred to Tylee as a zombie and

And if you remember back from episode, the previous episode to this for part one, Lori and Chad referred to anybody who they deemed having these dark spirits as zombies. So she's saying that her daughter, her own daughter, her own flesh and blood, Tylee, is a zombie. And Tylee also goes missing.

That same day, as moves are being made, and I believe they went to Yellowstone to get this picture because they needed some sort of documented proof, that very same day as they're doing all of this on this family outing, Chad signs an application with Tammy, his wife, to increase her life insurance policy to the maximum amount allowed on the policy. I get it. People sometimes increase their policy. There's no shade or blame or anything like that in that, but

You're doing it the same day that your paramour is making plans and up to some weird shady shit in Yellowstone. I don't like it. Make it make sense.

The very next day, too, which, again, the day before is the last known sighting of Tylee. The next day on September 9th, phone records place Alex Cox on Chad Daybell's property in the general vicinity and area where investigators eventually found Tylee's remains. And that same day, as Alex Cox's phone is pinging all over Chad's property, Chad...

sends a text message to his wife, Tammy, saying that he shot a raccoon and buried it in their pet cemetery. Now, hold on.

It was, in my opinion, an excuse for the fire, but I'm going to read this text exchange to you because it's such a random text to send. It makes no sense. It's almost as though he was laying the foundation to explain when she returned home why he had lit a fire on the grounds that day, why he had shot something. And remember, Alex is also on the property and Tylee was last seen the day before. So I think it's easy and fair for anybody to deduce the fact that

that's the day that they were disposing of Tylee. So let me read you this text exchange.

At 11.53 a.m., Chad texts Tammy, saying,

He then follows up with another message just three minutes later, saying, gonna shower now and then go write for a while at BYU. Love you. Tammy responds hours later, saying, good for you. And then Chad responds just one minute later, saying, I'm back home now.

So as I mentioned, at this point, it is suspected that Ty Lee was already murdered and disposed of. But JJ, the youngest, was still alive. But also, plans are now being made for Tammy's murder as well, which is why the life insurance policy was increased the same day that Ty Lee was killed. They were making moves in their master plan.

Today's episode of Serialistly is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Now, most of you listening right now are probably multitasking. Yes, I know you are. While you're listening to me talk, you're probably also driving, cleaning, exercising, or maybe even grocery shopping. But if you are not in some kind of moving vehicle, there is something else you can be doing right now, getting an auto quote from Progressive Insurance.

It's easy and you could save money by doing it right from your phone. Drivers who save by switching to Progressive save nearly $750 on average. And auto customers qualify for an average of seven discounts. Discounts for having multiple vehicles on your policy, being a homeowner, and more. So just like your favorite podcast, Progressive will be with you 24-7, 365 days a year, so you're protected no matter what.

An official message from Medicare.

Go to ssa.gov slash extra help.

Paid for by the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services. A little over a week later, on September 17th, 2019, a neighbor's camera footage picked up movements of JJ playing outside of their Idaho home. So JJ was still alive at this point on September 17th.

Two days later, on the 19th, Lori hired a babysitter through Care.com to come in to watch JJ. And the babysitter, it was her understanding that her care for JJ would be ongoing. But unfortunately, it wasn't.

because just three days later on September 22nd, J.J., who was just seven years old, attended classes at elementary school for the last time. He was also seen asleep with his uncle, Alex Cox, in Lori's apartment. And the very next day, Lori disenrolled J.J. from school, and this all according to the school principal. And it's around this date and evening that it's suspected that

that something happened to JJ. A week later, on October 1st, Lori signed a contract for a 10x10 storage unit with Self Storage Plus. Then throughout October and November, security footage shows Lori repeatedly taking and removing items from the storage unit, including belongings for both of the children.

The day after getting this storage unit and signing that contract, Lori purchased a malachite ring on Amazon for $35.99. And what's so crazy about this is she didn't even use her own Amazon account. She used Charles, her deceased husband's Amazon account, to order this ring. And this ring is very significant, and the timing of the purchase is very significant. So remember this date, October 2nd. Lori buys this malachite ring on Amazon.

A couple of weeks later, on October 19th, Chad calls 911, and he says that his wife Tammy died in her sleep at their Salem home. So detectives come and visit the home, and investigators rule Tammy's death as natural. The coroner, though, does not perform an autopsy, and this was at the specific direction of Chad. Chad tells them and directs them, I don't want an autopsy, none to be done here, she died of natural causes, case closed.

Then on November 5th, less than three weeks after Chad's wife Tammy died, Chad and Lori are married in Hawaii. And guess what ring was used as their wedding ring? That malachite ring that Lori purchased on Amazon. The one she purchased on Amazon 17 days before Tammy died.

Now let me just ask you guys this. I get that Lori claims that she talks to God and that God gives her instructions, she has all these revelations. Is she trying to claim that God told her she was going to get married and that God told her Tammy was going to die in 17 days and to buy the ring now? If she died of natural causes in her sleep, as though Chad said and investigators deemed and all these things and there was no autopsy to be done, what's the likelihood? And

How big of a coincidence would it have to be that Lori buys her future wedding ring 17 days before Tammy died? It's almost as though she knew Tammy was going to die in the near future, right? Not die of natural causes. It's almost as though she knew that this death was going to be coming. And also, her life insurance policy had just been increased, almost as though somebody knew that they were going to need to cash it out. It's weird. It's shady.

But I'm telling you, all things cult leader always are shady. Then two days after this cringe AF Hawaiian wedding goes down, I mean, I'm telling you, it was like so cringe. I talked about it in the last episode, but like these pictures on the beach are embedded in my mind and will forever haunt me of Chad playing the dumb ukulele with a stupid, stupid face. But anyways, two days after their wedding on November 7th, Chad and Lori relied on a sign from God to arrive at her home on this date. And

And you know what's interesting? The two of them put an application to rent a master bedroom on an upstairs level of a home in Kauai, Hawaii.

So they're now making moves to go to Hawaii two days after they got married in Hawaii, which I get it. You get married in Hawaii, you fall in love with the area, like, oh my God, this is beautiful. We should definitely move here. But if you have two kids, first of all, why aren't they at the wedding? But also why are you only interested in renting a master bedroom, not an apartment where your kids could come with you and live, but you're only going to rent a master bedroom? Was it because the kids were already gone? Most likely.

On November 8th, an email from Chad to a realtor in Kauai reads, Would the owners be interested in leasing this property to a clean couple with no pets and no children? There we go, guys. The bold statement, no children. They are saying that before the children are even reported as missing. Now, within the next couple of weeks, Lori and Chad go back to Rexburg. They...

Go back to, you know, who knows, do whatever they need to do, clean up the scene, whatever. And on November 26th, police in Rexburg, Idaho, conducted a welfare check on JJ and Tylee after JJ's grandparents, Larry and Kay, repeatedly could not get in touch with the kids. And police say that both Lori and Chad gave false statements on the kids' whereabouts. Hi. Hi. You Lori? Lori, I'm Lieutenant Ball, Police Department. How are you? You got him in? Yes, sir.

You alone or is that helpful? My brother's here. We're here? This is a big mess. I just talked to the guy on the phone. And what did he ask you? He was just saying that he wanted to do a well check on JJ. So JJ would be where? He's in Arizona. Who's he with in Arizona? He's with one of my friends in Arizona. Oh. Oh, you got an opah. No. Want me to get one? No. No. Come here. It's fine.

Mike he comes in so he's a friend he's with my friend Melanie her son has autism her name's Melanie I gave him all the information on the phone okay so he can call yeah what is all this we're a little concerned because well the officers who were here earlier yeah we're checking and they got a bad vibe like something was going on here because uh nobody knew you can invite a child they want to talk him

It's because a lot of stuff has gone on. If you want to know, it's a lot of stuff. Well, that's why we're concerned because it just was kind of weird. It is very weird. I've had to move around a lot. One of my brothers is trying to kill me. Not the brother that lives here, obviously. He's kind of my protector. My other brother was in with my husband who was trying to kill me for my $2 million life insurance bill.

So a lot of stuff is going on in this last year. It's been a horrible year for us. I had to move around. And so I was going to move back to Arizona, put my son back into school there because I tried to put him in school here, public school at Kennedy. He went for two months. We tried it, but he had such a hard time. Now, the person who called is my sister-in-law, but she's his natural grandmother. He's adopted by us.

So her son, who's a drug addict, had a baby with a girl who's a drug addict, and they took him from, you know, CPS took him, gave him to the grandmother. She came by him and then she wanted us to adopt him, which we did. My husband and I, who died earlier this year. He passed away. Since he passed away, she's been trying to fight me for him and being really horrible to me and my family.

She's kind of the paternal friend. Okay, thank you. That's what I mean. The paternal grandmother. He has autism and ADHD. He doesn't really talk to people. He's very special needs. So I had him in special needs school there. She was trying to... So what happened was my husband, who we were married for 15 years, and had raised all these five kids together,

But you have legal custody. He's my son.

My son, I adopted him. We had him from the time he was eight months old until two years old. She does nothing that wants to cause me trouble. So I don't tell people the truth about where we are and what we're doing because of those reasons. So I look like a suspect, but I am not a good person. Raised all of my kids. I've done everything that I'm supposed to do in life. But everyone is causing me trouble right now.

We don't want to cause a lot of trouble. How long have you been here? We've only been here since September. This is very interesting because at this point, it's now just signaling that the kids are missing or that something is going wrong. We haven't been able to get in touch with the kids. Where are they? Let's do a welfare check. Well, weeks earlier, Chad already had sent that email to the landlord saying they had no pets, saying they had no children. So here's the kicker here.

That same evening of the welfare check, Chad and Lori left Rexburg and went back to Hawaii, literally in the middle of the night. In the middle of the night. It's unbelievable. Now, during all of this, in the nights leading up to when they fled Rexburg in the middle of the night after the welfare check, Chad wrote a patriarchal blessing for Lori's brother, Alex Cox, in which he said that Alex would have nine angels assigned to protect him through his life, guaranteed.

during which Alex had a great mission to fulfill.

Now, we have talked a lot about Alex being Lori's henchman, being the one who killed Charles, who most likely killed both children, who did all of Lori's dirty work for her, which I think that the reason he did that is, yes, because he was in this cult and he was believing Chad a bit, but I also think there was, like, some weird dynamic and power dynamic between Lori and Alex. And I believe Alex did all of her dirty work, not saying that Lori is not responsible. I think she directed him to do it. And I also think that Chad...

was behind this and was the driving force behind this because he told Alex in this blessing, you have a great mission to fulfill. So is that mission making sure that Chad and Lori end up together with nothing in their way? Is that mission to get rid of the children or any obstacles that are in their way? What is that great mission to fulfill?

So the day after the welfare check, Lori and Chad obviously fled in the middle of the night, unbeknownst to anybody. So the next morning on the 27th, the Rexburg Police Department serves a search warrant. And when officers arrived, Chad and Lori were gone in the wind and the apartment was completely empty. At the same time, police also served a search warrant at Lori's storage unit, which they found blankets, bikes and photos of the two children in that storage unit.

A couple of days later, in a very odd, rushed twist, on November 29th in Las Vegas, Lori's brother Alex Cox marries a woman named Zulema, and it was in a very short, quick, eight-minute ceremony.

I don't know if Chad and Lori actually were already in Hawaii. I know they left the apartment. They cleared it out and they left. But I have a feeling, and I don't think it's been confirmed anywhere, but I have a feeling that they were in Vegas for this ceremony. Because according to flight records, Chad and Lori didn't catch an American Airlines flight to Hawaii until December 1st.

And on those records, it showed that they were by themselves and that the kids were not with them. So it makes sense that they would go to this wedding, which I also believe Chad arranged this wedding for whatever reason. And then on December 1st, they fly to Hawaii.

A few days later on December 6th, Melanie Gibb, Lori's best friend, contacted the Rexburg Police Department. And she told them that Chad and Lori had called her on November 26th, the day of that welfare check on the kids and the day that they had fled, and asked Melanie to lie about the location of JJ and to say that JJ was with her.

And Melanie at this point said, something didn't feel right about this. They asked me to lie about his whereabouts. So she finally did the right thing and called the Rexburg Police Department.

A few days later, on December 11th, 2019, Tammy, Chad's wife, her body was exhumed by authorities to actually do that autopsy that Chad had been refusing because things weren't smelling right. So she had only died, you know, a month or so prior. He refused the autopsy. Now her body's being exhumed. They are going to perform that autopsy.

What are they going to find out? Because they now believe that her death is suspicious. And we found out this week what the cause of death was, and I'm going to get to that in a second, guys.

Today's episode of Serialistly is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Now, most of you listening right now are probably multitasking. Yes, I know you are. While you're listening to me talk, you're probably also driving, cleaning, exercising, or maybe even grocery shopping. But if you are not in some kind of moving vehicle, there is something else you can be doing right now, getting an auto quote from Progressive Insurance.

It's easy, and you could save money by doing it right from your phone. Drivers who save by switching to Progressive save nearly $750 on average. And auto customers qualify for an average of seven discounts. Discounts for having multiple vehicles on your policy, being a homeowner, and more. So just like your favorite podcast, Progressive will be with you 24-7, 365 days a year, so you're protected no matter what.

An official message from Medicare.

Go to ssa.gov slash extra help.

Paid for by the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services. As if the timeline and story couldn't get any crazier, literally the next day after Tammy's body was exhumed and it was announced that they were going to perform an autopsy, it was less than two weeks after getting married in Vegas and one day after her body was exhumed, Alex, Lori's brother, suddenly dies at the healthy age of 51.

Now, Alex's new wife, Zulema, spoke with officers and said that a few days before Alex died, he actually confided in her and told her that if anything happened to her, there was money in a bag hidden for her in the closet, almost as though he knew it was coming. Do you remember when he gave that to you? He didn't necessarily give it to me. He just a couple of days before he passed.

I don't know if he was like one day or two days before he passed. He said to me, "Sulama, if anything happens to me, I want you to know that there is money in a bag in the closet and it's for you." He said, "It's not much, but it's for you." And then, so when you had that, let's go back to the conversation that you had with Alex when Tammy's body is being exhumed.

Do you remember that conversation where you said you had confronted him and said, Alex, are you going to have anything to do with this? Why would you think that he may have something to do with it? So Lori and Chad had called that day, and they were the ones that told us that they were exhuming her body. And...

The way they were talking, they weren't really saying anything like, "Oh, we're worried," or anything like that. It was more of a feeling that I had that was like, "This is really weird. Shouldn't they be having this kind of reaction?" type of thing. You know, not so nonchalantly, "Oh, they're exhuming her body," type of thing. And I was like, "Why are they so nonchalantly about it?"

Are they hiding something? Did they do something? Did they not do something? And so that's why I just, I wanted to, I knew that if I asked Lori and Chad about anything, they probably wouldn't say anything. But I thought that if they had been doing something, if he had done anything, Alex would probably tell me. So that's why I pressured him. I'm like, would you have anything to do with this? Like, they're facing this body and are they gonna find anything?

did you have anything to do with this and he said no but i mean i don't know if that was true or not do you know what i mean okay because and the reason i asked is because let's say if if my wife gets a call and they say one of her friends is being exhumed that wouldn't be that wouldn't be a question i would ask my wife is did you have anything to do with this that wouldn't even cross my mind you know what i mean it would be more like hey we're telling you it's getting exhumed right information wise this is what's going on so that's why

That's why I wanted you to maybe expand a little bit on maybe why you thought or suspected Chad and Lori may have done something to Tammy or that maybe Alex had known about something or had done something. So I remember that they were saying that Tammy had become a zombie.

And they were talking. I don't know who was saying who because they always like, oh, I was told, Laurie would say, I was told, and then Chad would say very little, and then it was kind of communicated through her. So it's kind of hard to tell who the information was coming from. But they were saying that Tammy was supposed to die on her trip to Utah.

She was supposed to have a, like he had seen it in a vision that she was going to die in a car accident in the way there. Or something was going to happen that she was going to pass away. And then when she didn't pass away, then what they were saying was that she actually did pass away, but what happened was that she was taken over by an evil spirit and then they were, that she had become a zombie. Okay? So, in the back of my mind, here I am thinking, okay, they said the same thing about

Charles, right? And then Charles ended up being shot, right? I'm thinking, okay, you guys are not trying to say that you guys are going to do something physically to people who are, you know, who are turning into zombies, according to them. That was my thought. Okay. So, refresh my memory again, what was Alex's response to your question? So, he sat back and

He sat back in the back and pressed his back towards the back of the bed, the headboard. And he goes, no. That's it. There's no answer after that. Nothing else. I was waiting for him to say something else. And I'm like, okay. I'm like, are you going to say anything else? And he's like, no. Okay. So I thought when he seemed so sure of his answer, I was like, okay then. He didn't have anything to do with this.

Okay. And is that the same conversation you, that's the same conversation you kind of got after, right? And we're pretty, maybe forceful is not the right word, but aggressive towards him as far as, tell me what's going on. Yeah, because that was when he, because right after he, you know, so then I pressed for another answer and he tells me no, right? So then I am going, so then I stand up and I start walking away because I'm like, I don't know what to think at this point. And that's when he said, I think I am being there.

And I'm like, the fall guy for what? What is it? Tell me. What is it that they're trying to pin on you? What did they do? And he just wouldn't say anything else. So then I get frustrated again because he's not answering my questions. So I turn around and I'm going to walk away again because I'm just so frustrated that he's not saying anything. And that's when he tells me, either I am a man of God or I am not.

What are the chances that the day after Tammy's body is exhumed, knowing that Alex is pretty much the henchman for all of these deaths, or safe to assume, I should say, that he dies mysteriously? It's way too close for comfort. Too many people are dying that are close to Lori and Chad.

A week or so later, on December 20th, the Rexburg Police Department finally announced that JJ and Tylee are missing. Police said that their disappearance is possibly linked to the suspicious death of Tammy Daybell, Chad's wife. And the following day, police called Chad and Lori persons of interest. So now the public and the police is on to them.

So for the next month, news is spreading about the children being Missy and Lori not cooperating. Reward funds are being set up. Kay and Larry give several interviews. Lori's son Colby and family members plead with her to provide proof of the children's whereabouts. Everybody is just wondering, where are the children? If they're safe, if they're being hidden somewhere, even if you believe it's doomsday and you have them in an underground bunker, just doomsday.

Show that there's proof of life. Do something. And everybody was pleading for Lori to do this. But she didn't. And she wouldn't. So on January 25, 2020, the Kauai Police Department served Lori with a notice stating that she must produce JJ and Tylee to the Idaho Department of Health and Welfare or the Rexburg Police Department within five days. But she, of course, didn't. And she was arrested on February 5th.

Now, over the next several months, the investigation continues, with both Chad and Lori being looked at as suspects for the children's disappearances, and now for Tammy's death as well. But there was still no concrete proof that anything had happened to the children, and the public and family members, everybody was just holding out hope that...

They had just stashed them somewhere. They were with a friend somewhere that they, you know, one of Lori's cult friends saying protect the kids. Everybody was hoping that that was the case, even though deep down, I think it's safe to say everybody, myself included, knew that that more than likely was not going to be the outcome, unfortunately.

On May 8th, 2020, a few months after Alex Cox had died, the Emmy's office ruled that Alex died of natural causes and that it was due to blood clots in his lungs, which is something I still have a very hard time believing because...

The circumstances and the timing was just too perfect, and he was a 51-year-old healthy man for it to be natural causes, in my opinion. I think the fact that he died the day after Tammy's body was exhumed, I don't know. Tell me what you guys think, but I don't know. I'm not buying that 100%.

On June 9, 2020, the Rexburg Police Department, the FBI, and the Fremont County Sheriff's Office served a search warrant at Chad's home. And within hours, investigators uncovered human remains buried on the property, which were later identified as those of JJ and Tylee. At around 11.30 a.m. on June 9, Chad was taken into custody about a mile from his home. He was booked into the county jail on two felony charges of concealment, distribution, or alteration of evidence.

and court documents suggest that JJ was buried in that same pet cemetery that he said he shot that raccoon down at on Chad Daybell's property, and that Tylee's remains were dismembered and burned. So now Lori and Chad are both locked up. The children's remains are discovered. Everybody suspects that Lori and Chad are, of course, behind their murders, and everybody wants answers.

Well, Chad's five adult children were convinced that their father was innocent, and they spoke out together to 48 Hours, saying that they wanted to tell his story and how they believe J.J. and Tylee's remains ended up in their father's backyard and why they believe that he did not do it. They believe he was lured in to this web of murder and deceit, saying, and I quote,

My father needs someone to be a voice for him, to let people know what's real and what we know. Did your father, Chad Daybell, play any role in killing JJ and Tylee? No. Then why were their bodies found buried in your father's backyard? I don't know, but I do know that if he were to commit a crime, he wouldn't be foolish enough to put the evidence in his own backyard.

Nor would a one-time professional gravedigger have dug such shallow, crude graves, says Seth. He knew how to dig graves, and that just doesn't sound believable to me.

But investigative reporter and CBS News consultant Morgan Lowe says that argument doesn't hold up if Chad were in a desperate panic. Saying that somebody's prior experience as a gravedigger means that they wouldn't just sloppily bury somebody discounts all of the psychological pressure that might be affecting somebody who's trying to get rid of bodies. This is where Tylee's body was found.

It was back here. Emma took us to her father's backyard to show us another reason why she believes her father wouldn't have buried JJ and Tylee here. You can look around for miles and miles. Their property is surrounded by plenty of places to hide a body. There's land down there that no one would ever touch.

What do you say to those people who are still very skeptical with all of this? It might seem like a convenient excuse, but if it's the truth, we have to hold to it. Emma believes the children were put in her father's yard on purpose. He was framed. It all goes back to this woman, says Emma, her father's new wife, Lori Vallow Daybell.

I think he was fooled in the worst, most deadly way possible. I guess it's possible that Chad was framed. This is either the least lucky person in the world or this is murder. On August 3rd, 2020, during one of Chad's preliminary hearings, prosecutors introduced a recorded phone call into evidence. And this call was between Lori's best friend, Melanie Gibb, and the couple, Chad Daybell and Lori Vallow. So

So Melanie, remember, was the friend who they asked to lie about JJ's whereabouts when the children first disappeared and when that welfare check was done. So that request by Chad and Lori to lie to the police prompted Melanie to call them a few days after she reported it to the police on December 8th and ask them why they asked her to lie. And she had the smarts to record the entire thing. And I want to play pieces of that call for you because it is unbelievable.

But first, I'm going to go grab a Diet Coke. Today's episode of Serialistly is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Now, most of you listening right now are probably multitasking. Yes, I know you are. While you're listening to me talk, you're probably also driving, cleaning, exercising, or maybe even grocery shopping. But if you are not in some kind of moving vehicle, there is something else you can be doing right now, getting an auto quote from Progressive Insurance.

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This is a recording on December at 3:43 p.m. and I am calling Chad Day Bell's phone number and hopefully I will be talking to both of them, Chad and Lori. So here goes the phone call. Hello, sweet Melanie. Hi, Chad. Hey, Lori. Hey, lovely to speak here. Oh, okay. We're in episode two. How are you guys?

Hey, how are you doing babe? I'm doing pretty good thanks. I was wondering where are you guys? We're just hanging out. Are you in Idaho? We're in our Idaho. I just wanted to ask you a question if you don't mind, Lori. Yeah, of course. I wanted to know, remember we talked about JJ going to Kay's house and you told me they went there and now he's not there? I was wondering what happened.

Well, I had to move in somewhere else because of her actions. So... Was she doing something? Like, was she trying to come get him or something? Or, like, trying to kidnap him? Well, yeah, she's said that a couple times before, but...

Okay, well, you know, when I asked Chad the other day, I was like, hey, you know, where is JJ? And he said, for my security, he didn't want me to know. So is there a reason I should be in danger to know where he is?

No, it's nobody. It's his danger. It's the danger that there's people after me. Okay. So... If you knew, that puts you in a danger. Well, just in a bad position. Yeah, bad position. Everybody, if they don't know anything, then they don't have to

Right, so you're just worried, okay. I'm just to keep him protected and keep everybody else. I appreciate that. Well, I was wondering why you told the police why he was with me. So I wouldn't have to tell them where he really was. We can tell Kay where he is. Oh, yeah. So do you think it's like your family? Or, you know, like your family, your dad, or, you know, those people? Well, my family...

but as you know most of my family is working against me and yeah with basically yeah is jj safe she is safe and happy okay well that's good to hear um are you afraid of anything like are you afraid to tell me that you're just afraid that he um that i could be in danger like you're

Like I don't like if I knew like how could that hurt me? I don't understand all that can hurt me if I know where he was. Just not telling anybody so that nobody has to get questioned to where he is so I can keep him as safe as possible. Yeah. Um, okay. I hope well, I hope that he's okay. I hope you guys are okay. I did have a question that I asked Al at one point, your brother. Um, if, um,

If I wanted to know, you know, like where he was and he said I did not want to know and that he could not be found. So what does that mean? He would say that, but it's the same story. I don't want anybody to know so that nobody has to be, has to be, so he can be safe.

Yeah, so are you, I mean, how long are you going to be away for? Like, how, I mean, are you ever going to be able to come out and come back to society again? Or are you going to keep, you know, like, come back? I mean, like, what does that look like? I will do whatever the Lord needs me to do every day. I just wondered if I was ever going to see you again. Absolutely, you will.

Okay, so maybe when they're done chasing you, you'll be able to come out again? It's a ridiculous thing for them to be working with me to find me. There's nothing that's going on. You know what I'm saying? Like they're working with her in some dark, the police are working. There's no reason for them to be after me in the first place. Has she threatened you at all?

Yes, lots of times. What did she say? Well, it's in emails and everything. So like she said she was going to come take him or she was... I know it sounds like it. I'm just worried for you guys because, you know, he's missing.

and you know... I know exactly where he is. He's perfectly fine. Okay, well I hope so. I have a scripture I wanted to share with you, if you don't mind. I was thinking about some of the things you guys have gone through, and I saw this scripture today, and I wanted to... Let me ask you a question. Let me ask you a question about scripture. Okay. Did Alma turn himself into King Noah, or what was he required to do?

Well, King Noah was incredibly wicked. Yes. So he fled his evil ways, which was adultery and living riotously and breaking all the commandments. Right. What was he required to do? He had to go and flee so that he would be safe and then help other people realize how jacked up the system was and the government was. What was he required to do at the end?

to carry on those plates and bury them. That was the responsibility. You had to hide. You had to hide because they were so... Everybody was killing everybody in the society. Everybody was dying. They were killing all the natives. And the scriptures had to hide in the cavity of a rock by day, by night. The prophets did. They did.

Okay, so thank you for sharing that with me. Okay, I just, this scripture is just something that may be thoughtful for you.

Behold this is Dr. Kevin section 3 verse 7 and 8 says for behold you should not have feared man more than God although men said not the counsels of God and despise his words yet you should have been faithful and he would have extended his arm and supported you against all the fiery darts of the adversary he would have been with you in every trouble so when we work with the Lord and are obedient he has

He's going to protect us from adversarial darts and all kinds of negativity. But when we open the door to Satan, he comes in and then he attacks. And then he takes away to make it look like somebody else took it away. But that's not how God works. He doesn't work in darkness. I agree with you 100%. And that's what the Lord is doing for me. Exactly what he's doing for me. Oh, just, just, just.

now darkness is knocking on the door all the time because that's the way dark works with the light I promise you that I have done nothing wrong in this case but sometimes you have to hide in a cavity of a rock for your own life safety Lord requires of you sometimes and that's how it is and I'm sorry that's how it is because there is a lot of darkness on the earth this thing after me for a

Zero reason besides the darkness of Cain, which you already know she's dark. I haven't met her enough to know if she's dark or not. I've just met her slightly and she seemed like a normal kind of person, but then I haven't engaged with her that much. So I don't know that personally.

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Paid for by the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services. You don't know about her changing the thing for herself to be the beneficiary of the policy and all that stuff? None of that stuff, right? Well, I haven't seen those documents, so I have no way of knowing. You've seen them on my computer. No, I have not. I haven't looked in on your computer before. You haven't shown me anything. I don't know why you're being controversial to me or if you're recording this conversation for the police or whatever. I don't know what your intention is on this one, Carl. And I will always...

I appreciate those words, but if you really love me, you wouldn't have told the police that I had Juju with me. That's not what a friend does. I mean, that just makes me look weird, and it's not safe for me. That doesn't look good. I mean, you had to think of my welfare if you love me. I do, and I did exactly what I felt the Lord was instructing me to do. I appreciate you, and I love you, and I would never do anything to harm you.

And you can have all of this confirmed to you by the Lord. And my conscience is clear. I feel very understanding what's really going on, Lori. And I believe that you have been very deceived by Satan. I believe that he has tricked you. And I just, I don't believe that what you're doing is correct. I just don't. I mean, Tammy dies.

and then your husband died and then this and then he's missing it just doesn't sound like god's plan to me it just sounds it gives me a gut feeling like in my gut it feels weird it doesn't feel right i don't have peace about it i never have felt 100 peace about it i always felt like a little weird in my stomach about all these things you know me you know me this does not sound like you that sounds like you've been influenced by somebody dark who wants you to

believe dark things and have fear and have fear of the celestial world i don't have fear you obviously do no i have a piece of conscious and i can see clearly well i'm sorry that you feel that way i love you so much i know you do i don't know what else to say when he comes again and he's coming to him and we will all see that he is supporting me and has supported me the whole time i have not been deceived i just want to testify that i i know tammy

I don't know who she is. I'm sorry, you said your sister-in-law? I don't even know her. Oh, I know, but she's coming up with the same type of theories. And it's just not true. My own children were there. They testified that Tammy had been getting weaker and sick and to go to the doctor.

because she just, her heart was failing her. She was physically falling apart, but she hates doctors. She just passed away. That's how it happened. My son Garth was right there with me the whole time. My kids were at the house within 20 minutes of her passing. There were two coroners. They checked her out right there on the bed.

all these conspiracy theories just make me sick to my stomach uh just absolutely sick i know i've been told three years that tammy would pass away at a young age i had no idea that lori would even be a part of my life i just knew that my life had two segments i know tammy's on a special mission and she's with my kids she's visited them there's so much melody that he

You just have to have faith and this is not some sort of master plan. There's no way, Logan, I should ever come up with this. It's just... You can understand my concern, correct? I can from an outside perspective, but from an... From someone who knows as much as you know? No, not really. But we can base influence on you. I can feel that for sure. He's a very good man and he has a very strong foundation that I know.

he seems to be the one that's putting the doubts in your mind no no you know what i have i have come to understand that my gut feeling i was not listening to it and i always felt uncomfortable with many things okay well i'm sorry that i included you in those teachings then for your own safety because

I wish that you didn't have as much knowledge as you have, because you will be accountable for the knowledge that you do have, no? So will you. I agree 100%. I have no fear. I was reading the story of Khor Khor, and it is so very similar to this, you just can't see it, but he did it because he was trying to reclaim a people, and he thought at the very end, because of his carnal and natural desires, that's what influenced him.

And he was very, very... You got a lot of natural desires. We all know that. I think both of you have similarities. It's in the scriptures.

Now, for the past two years, almost three, Lori and Chad have been waiting for the trial, but it has been continued many times at both the state and defendants' requests for numerous issues, including the issue of Lori's mental competency. She was ultimately determined to be mentally competent, and she and Chad were finally set to have their joint trials together in April of this year, despite many requests by Chad's lawyer to sever the case from Lori.

Now, since Chad had waived his right to a speedy trial, he has all the time in the world to just wait for trial. And most recently, his lawyer argued that the state has just disclosed new evidence that could be exculpatory for Chad's defense. So they filed another motion to sever his case. Lori, on the other hand, has never waived her right to a speedy trial. So because of this new evidence, Chad's motion to sever was finally granted.

Pretty much because the judge didn't have a choice at this point but to allow the defense to conduct their own testing of the DNA, which would take several weeks.

So now Lori and Chad are having separate trials, which brings us to where we are today, as Lori's trial is now fully underway, and many questions remain, which hopefully most of the answers to these questions will be answered as the trial goes on. What exactly happened to Tylee and JJ? When did all of this start? What role did Lori and Chad play in their deaths? And how does the religious beliefs of this couple play a role into this entire case overall?

Lori's charged with two counts of first-degree murder and three counts of conspiracy in the deaths, as well as grand theft for collecting government benefits on behalf of her children after they were killed. Yes, you heard that right. Lori continued to receive government funds as if the children were still alive after she knew they were not.

trash garbage bag human being but let me talk to you about the trial really quick the trial is closed and it is not being aired anywhere so i have been doing weekly recaps of the trial on my youtube channel tend to life where we go over all of the key takeaways the bombshells and the major revelations such as this week we learned that tammy's cause of death was asphyxiation it was not natural causes

We also learned that one of the pickaxes that was in Chad's shed on his property had the children's DNA on it, which a pickaxe is kind of like, I'll put a picture up on the screen, but let me describe it to you. It's basically like, it kind of, it's not a normal traditional looking axe. It almost looks like an ice pick, but bigger. It has like, it's almost like an upside down anchor, if that makes sense, you know. And we know that Tylee was found dismembered. So was that used for it?

possibly, but there were a lot of bombshells last week in the first week of the evidence and witness testimony portion of the trial. So I'm doing the weekly recaps on my main channel where I break down all of that for you because the trial isn't being aired anywhere and it's really difficult to get the audio. So if you want to be fully caught up in real time as this trial is happening right now, make sure that you go and check out those videos. I

I just published week one yesterday as we head into week two of the trial this week. This case is just one that continues to fascinate me and feels unbelievable, not only because so many people close to this couple have died, but because this woman, who was said to have been such an incredible, loving mother, cared so much about family. It's almost as though, and I don't want to put it all on Chad like she was brainwashed by Chad,

But for this woman to do this to her own children, just to impress and be with this cult leader, Chad Daybell, and then after the kids are murdered, be so happy in Hawaii at the wedding, making plans for their future together, a huge smile on her face as though she had no care in the world. All the while, her children's dismembered and dead bodies are buried on her husband's property.

it is sick and it's one of those things where it's like cults are always fascinating don't get me wrong i am always fascinated by cults and we're going to talk more about that in next week's episode so hang tight but cults are always fascinating but when you have now this element of like murder involved her own children family members start dying off all of these shady emails the life insurance it is just such a complex and unbelievable case it really is so as i mentioned cults

We're going to talk more about that because I am so fascinated by cults and I know so many of you guys are as well. And I have an amazing surprise guest for you on next week's episode of Serialistly because we are going to talk all about cults with this guest. So do not miss that.

And as a reminder, new episodes of Serialistly release exclusively to the podcast every single Monday, and then the video version of the episode will be uploaded later in the week on YouTube. So make sure that you are following the podcast so that you hear it there first. And by following the podcast, there's an option on whatever podcast platform you listen to where you can literally follow it as though it's like an Instagram account so that you'll get notified when the new episodes are published.

and that way you don't have to wait and be the last one to hear it when it hits YouTube.

So guys, thank you so much for tuning in with me today on another episode of Serialistly. Remember, if you are in the Chad Daybell saga and Lori Vallow saga and you want to be caught up in real time as we're watching this entire trial unfold, hop on over to my YouTube channel because I'm doing my weekly recaps of everything that goes down in the courtroom. I also have a source who has been in the courtroom the last few days who has been giving me some inside intel via text message, which I will share that with you guys there as well. And

We'll break down everything that's happening in real time. All right, guys, thanks so much. Please don't forget, if you enjoyed this episode, to rate it and leave a review. And let me know what questions you guys have in the comment section of the YouTube page so I can answer them in next week's episode. All right, guys, thanks for tuning in to another episode, and I will see you next Monday. An official message from Medicare.

A new law is helping me save more money on prescription drug costs. Maybe you can save too. With Medicare's Extra Help program, my premium is zero and my out-of-pocket costs are low. Who should apply? Single people making less than $23,000 a year or married couples who make less than $31,000 a year. Even if you don't think you qualify, it pays to find out. Go to ssa.gov slash extra help. Paid for by the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services.