3: Lori Vallow & Chad Daybell: Part 1. “Falling in Love With a Cult Leader"
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Today's episode of Serialistly is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Now, most of you listening right now are probably multitasking. Yes, I know you are. While you're listening to me talk, you're probably also driving, cleaning, exercising, or maybe even grocery shopping. But if you are not in some kind of moving vehicle, there is something else you can be doing right now, getting an auto quote from Progressive Insurance.

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Multitask right now. Quote your car insurance at Progressive.com to join the over 28 million drivers who trust Progressive. Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and Affiliates. National average 12-month savings of $744 by new customers surveyed who saved with Progressive between June 2022 and May 2023. Potential savings will vary. Discounts not available in all states and situations.

Buckle up and crank up that volume. This is Serialistly with Annie Elise. Hello and happy, happy days. My name is Annie Elise, your true crime BFF, and welcome to another episode of Serialistly, the podcast. Now, if you're watching this on video on YouTube and you're like, oh, what do you mean the podcast? As a friendly reminder, this is available on all audio

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So today, let me break down what we are going to be talking about because it's one that I feel like so many people are familiar with already, but there are a lot of nuances in this case that either people are forgetting about completely or

or they have no idea about them and have no idea why people are so obsessed with this case and why people are referring to it as the trial of the century, which I feel like I have been saying that tagline for so many cases lately because there have been so many trials lately that are headline trials that are deemed the trial of the century. But this is one of the main ones that so many people, myself included, have been waiting for.

So, drumroll, as the trial of the century begins with the jury selection beginning already this week as I'm recording, the first week of April, it's the Lori Vallow and Chad Daybell case. It is fully underway and it is back in the spotlight.

Now, this saga of Laurie and Chad has really captivated audiences worldwide, and it has more twists, more turns than any single roller coaster that you would ever go on, and enough drama, honestly, for any telenovela. It is like jam-packed with craziness, not only with the case itself and why they're on trial, but also

the backstory and the tangled web of their previous partners, spouses. I mean, we've got a lot to unload today, guys.

So, most recently, Lori and Chad's cases were severed by the judge. Originally, they were going to be tried together, and now they are going to have two separate trials. Also, the judge ruled to take the death penalty off the table for Lori, and that was due to late disclosures of discovery by the prosecution, which a lot of people feel was just an epic fail by the prosecution because a lot of people wanted the death penalty to still be on the table. But in any event,

Their trial, which was supposed to once upon a time be joined, is now severed. A lot of people wonder, myself included, will they flip on each other? Now, by the time this episode is released, I'm recording this right now a few days into jury selection, I have a feeling it's going to be the evidence portion of the trial already. So this case is just very confusing. There's a lot of details. So what we're going to do is kind of like...

Circle back. Do a deep dive from the very beginning because like I said, there are a lot of nuances that people have forgotten about and a lot of details that many people aren't even aware about in this case. So we're going to kind of go through the full, dark, tangled web of the two of these people. So buckle up and get ready for an honest...

at times roast-like conversation about this crazy ass doomsday couple that has now captured the world's attention. Nothing is off limits here, guys, and I am saying nothing at all because I hate these two people personally. I think they're evil. So I'm going to do my best to break everything down for you as we head into this circus and what I can only imagine is going to also be a circus of a trial. So let's take it back to the very beginning when the world was first introduced to

to Lori Vallow and Chad Daybell. On the mysterious case that involves two missing children, three suspicious deaths, and a multi-state investigation. Lori's like gasoline. Chad is the match. This story is insane. There's religion, sex, murder. You have one for the job. Multiple marriages, multiple deaths. Two kids are in the center of it.

Her idea was for her to get rid of the zombies. Are you guys innocent of any crimes? Have you committed any crimes? Chad, Lori, can you tell me where your kids are? Would you tell me what happened to JJ? Can you tell me where Tylee is? She's now trying to leave the 144,000 as we get closer to the end of the world. I don't know how someone can actually leave.

Is JJ safe? He is safe and happy. I know exactly where he is.

Lori Vallow is 49 years old. She has blonde hair with blue eyes and is your traditionally attractive woman. Up until recently, she was known as a dedicated mother who loved her children very much and just an overall amazing person, amazing wife, amazing friend. Since then, she has been dubbed the doomsday mom, a cult mom, a religious nutcase, and even labeled as a monster.

So what on earth happened here? To understand Lori, we really have to go back to the beginning of Lori's life. And that's because that's where the web really starts to get tangled and we start to see our first casualties and a pattern of behavior start to truly take form and begin.

Lori grew up with four other siblings, two brothers and two sisters. Lori's parents, Janice and Barry, are devout members of the Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints faith, or Mormon faith, and they raised all of their children to also be practicing Mormons. While growing up, Lori was quiet, was also a very sweet girl, she loved going to church, and was completely dedicated to her faith, which, great, not a problem, you wouldn't think. Many people don't

are dedicated to their faith and don't go on to become cult members and get accused of killing their children, but to each their own. Now, as an adult, Lori really liked to get married, and I'm talking like a lot. She's been married five times. That's not to shame anybody who is searching for their soulmate and gets married multiple times, but you'll see that her marriages were constantly suspicious or ended under suspicious circumstances, I should say.

Her first marriage was right out of high school, and it quickly ended in divorce. She was married again in 1995 to a man named William, and then together they had a son named Colby. William filed for divorce shortly after having Colby about a year later, and their divorce was finalized in 1997. Then in 2001, in her third marriage, Lori married another man named Joe Ryan.

Colby's biological dad, William, was no longer in the picture anymore, so Joe adopted Colby after the two of them got married. Soon after, the couple had a daughter, who they named Tylee.

Colby absolutely loved his new little sister Tylee and was so excited to have a little sister and Tylee was just a precious little baby girl I mean so cute just an absolute doll the family of four was living in Austin Texas around this time and you would think just was a happy family and that she now finally found her perfect match they had these two children everything was great but

Lori also considered herself a beauty queen and competed in the Miss Texas pageant in 2004. Mrs. Hayes County, her husband's name is Joseph. They've been married for three and a half years and they have two children. It was about presenting yourself well and having talent.

And she worked really hard to get a perfect shape. I don't know really what prompted her to want to do the pageant, other than it gave her kind of an outlet. And she thought that might help her marriage at the time. Lori does have stage presence. She's very poised. She did everything beautifully. Who you are, what you take. Being a good mom is very me and a good kid.

and a good worker and being all those things together is not easy. So I'm basically a ticking time bomb. Lori also went on Wheel of Fortune and she just really wanted to be famous in my opinion and have a lot of attention on her because a relative of Lori's even said that Lori had told her that God told me I would be on Wheel of Fortune.

which I've never really had a revelation myself from God personally. No shame to those who have, but I would think that God telling you you're going to be on a game show is probably not normally in line with the other revelations that he gives, but again, I've never had one, so who am I to judge, I guess?

But according to this relative, this was a reoccurring theme throughout Lori's life. And whenever things would happen, she would make very similar comments because she would want people to know that she was close with God or was somehow special due to her ability to speak with God. So it would be, this is God's will or God told me I was going to be on a wheel of fortune. God told me this marriage wasn't right. God told me my children are zombies, which we're getting to that, guys. So...

This is, again, my personal opinion here, but I feel like Lori is a nut job, to say the least.

Anybody who claims to hear these revelations, whether it's about your children, about your husband, about going on Wheel of Fortune, about some of these guys saying, oh, God told me I need to marry an 11-year-old little girl and have sex with her. It's God's will. It's God's will. Anybody who keeps like harboring and leaning on God's talking to me gives me a lot of pause, big red flags, and it gives me culty vibes.

That's my opinion. Tell me if you agree or disagree. Again, God's never spoken to me, so maybe I'm just jaded, but feels really weird to me. Now, during Lori's marriage to Joe, he was allegedly physically and sexually abusive towards her, and she later found out that Joe had also apparently sexually abused her son, Colby. So Lori and Joe got a divorce, and Lori took Colby and her daughter, Tylee, with her, but Joe was not gone. Lori

Lori and Joe went through major custody issues because Lori did not want Joe to be in the children's lives at all, given the allegations and how tumultuous that would be. Police reports confirmed that Lori and her brother Alex Cox, and remember that name, threatened to kill Joe in 2007 after a fight erupted in a parking lot.

Alex, Lori's brother, used a stun gun on Joe and eventually pleaded guilty to second-degree aggravated assault and served three months in jail. Now, what's weird is Alex was also trying out his hand at stand-up comedy, and at one point he actually discussed this event and this occurrence with Joe. I had something that you knew was the right thing to do, but it turns out that later on it was a felony. No!

This is a true story. I found out that my ex-brother-in-law was a pedophile, so I took a stun gun and I discharged it right in his nutsack.

But what's crazy about all of this, too, is Lori's other brother, Adam, had a very different story to tell. He told detectives that Lori and Alex planned to kill Joe, that they planned out how they were going to kill him, and Alex was going to taser him, throw him in the trunk, and then take him out to a field, shoot him, and then bury him.

Well, Alex went to taser him, and apparently it obviously didn't work, and Joe called the police, and then Alex went to jail. So, was this a heat-of-the-moment attack and some sort of crime of quick passion? Or did Lori and Alex actually plan to kill Joe, and then their plan fell apart? And this is where we begin to start to see a pattern in this weird, close dynamic between Lori and Alex.

And I'm talking really close and really weird. Too close for comfort for siblings. I've got siblings. I'm very close with my siblings. It's way too close for comfort. So Lori talked about this on a podcast actually too, saying that murder was justified according to Mormon scripture and that she wanted Joe dead.

Now, I get being pissed off at Joe for what he did, for those allegations. Don't get me wrong. And wanting them to suffer, wanting them to die. And I'm not going to sugarcoat it. If all those allegations are true, he is a complete piece of shit. Absolutely. And deserves whatever's coming to him. But the amount of mental gymnastics that you would have to do to believe that God said it was okay to murder him is beyond. But remember, Lori was constantly saying,

saying that she was having these revelations, that God was speaking to her, that he was telling her all of these things happening in her life were at his will and that it was her path. So this was just one more thing to add to her list where it fit her narrative where, oh no, God told me that he wants us to kill Joe. It's okay. Murder is justified. Joe should die. It's a little bit unbelievable. He was constantly trying to get custody of my three-year-old daughter and

just to rub it in my face. And I went through a lot of years of this kind of hard stuff. And I was going to murder him. I was going to kill him, like the scriptures say, like Nephi killed him, just to stop the pain and to stop him coming after me and to stop him coming after my children. And

I was just, I just thought I couldn't take it anymore. And I would go through the scriptures and find all the things like, if he comes against you once, if he comes against you twice, if he comes against you three times, then you can kill him. It says it in the scriptures. There it is. There's my answer. I don't want to do anything that's wrong. I did not have

A murderous heart. Now, this stun gun incident happened actually a year after Lori married her fourth husband, Leland, also known as Charles Anthony Vallow. She married Charles in 2006 when this all went down. So if you're happy and in love with your new husband, why are you going after and trying to murder your ex? I don't know. It doesn't make much sense. Charles and Lori got married in Las Vegas, and they were first living in Houston, Texas, but later moved to Chandler, Arizona.

Charles has two sons of his own from a previous marriage who lived with their mother at the time. He also had an amazing job. He provided a very comfortable lifestyle for Lori and for the entire family. Everyone thought that this would be a turning point for Lori, for her, for Colby, for Tylee, because now Lori was finally married to a genuinely good man.

Charles absolutely adored Lori and treated Colby and Tylee as if they were his own kids. He was a Catholic, but he also converted to LDS for Lori. So now she has her strong Mormon faith still the backbone of her life. She has her new husband who has converted for her. He is taking on her children from previous marriages as if they are his own. He has a stable job and is providing a loving home.

What more could somebody want, right? What more could somebody want, you would wonder. But it still was not enough for Lori. And we're going to get to why it wasn't enough for Lori in just one second here, guys. But I need to refill my Diet Coke, get the pipes re-lubricated up in here, and then we're going to get into why Lori is such a disaster and what happened next.

Today's episode of Serialistly is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Now, most of you listening right now are probably multitasking. Yes, I know you are. While you're listening to me talk, you're probably also driving, cleaning, exercising, or maybe even grocery shopping. But if you are not in some kind of moving vehicle, there is something else you can be doing right now, getting an auto quote from Progressive Insurance.

It's easy and you could save money by doing it right from your phone. Drivers who save by switching to Progressive save nearly $750 on average. And auto customers qualify for an average of seven discounts. Discounts for having multiple vehicles on your policy, being a homeowner, and more. So just like your favorite podcast, Progressive will be with you 24-7, 365 days a year, so you're protected no matter what.

Multitask right now. Quote your car insurance at Progressive.com to join the over 28 million drivers who trust Progressive. Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and Affiliates. National average 12-month savings of $744 by new customers surveyed who saved with Progressive between June 2022 and May 2023. Potential savings will vary. Discounts not available in all states and situations. An official message from Medicare.

So

So the marriage is going great, and seven years into their marriage, Lori and Chad adopted Joshua Jackson Vallow, also nicknamed JJ, who was a little over a year old at the time. Now, Charles' older sister, Kay, was JJ's grandmother, and JJ's parents were very young and struggling with some issues.

JJ has autism and needed to be in a home where he could have a better life, and ultimately Kay and her husband Larry felt like Lori and Charles would be a good fit for JJ because remember they had a stable home. It was an environment in which anybody would think JJ would thrive. And JJ was the perfect addition to Lori and Charles's big growing blended family.

Lori and Charles loved JJ like he was their own son, and Lori was also very, very patient with him. Tylee had a very special relationship with JJ as well, and always referred to him as her baby or her child. Are you taking a video of my child? Your child? My child. She nurtured him. She loved him. And she just cared for JJ with such compassion, empathy, and just true, genuine love.

Colby and JJ also were very, very close. After the adoption, Larry and Kay were proud grandparents who always kept up with JJ and loved seeing him. And now he was with these two siblings who just adored him, who took care of him as if he were their own child. It was just a very positive and very loving environment for JJ.

At the end of 2014, Lori and Charles moved to Hawaii with Colby, Tylee, and J.J. This was in August of 2014, and they lived on the island of Kauai and ran a small business together, which involved selling natural remedies and supplements. They also chose to make the decision of homeschooling their son, J.J.,

Lori and Charles started attending the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints that was in Kauai, and this is where Lori met a friend named April. They became very close friends while Lori was in Hawaii, and April described Lori as a devout Mormon and that she even looked up to her and thought that she was lucky to have a husband like Charles, who converted to Mormonism for her and support her in that way.

However, as time went on and April got to know Lori better, April said that Lori started to make comments here and there about how she wished that Charles was more into the church and into the religion and that she wanted to have a partner whose faith was just as strong as hers or somebody who was as religiously gifted as Lori was. Having somebody speak to her, hearing the revelations,

She wanted a partner who also exhibited that and had those situations happen to him. Now, I know this sounds weird, but things like that apparently meant a lot to Lori. And she always wanted people to remember to know how close she was to God, almost in a way of her being special. And April said it came off in a way like Lori was better than Charles or more holy because of this.

So around 2015, Lori started reading Chad Daybell's Standing in Holy Places series of books and reportedly started becoming obsessed with these books.

April said that Lori started talking about this new group that she was a part of, led by this post-apocalypse author, Chad, and that Lori had become a super fan of Chad's. And a super fan of Chad's doomsday ideology. Now this is what I was talking about where the cliche happens.

She's now reading these books of this guy who believes in the apocalypse and doomsday and all of these things and she's hyper focused. She is becoming obsessed with these books and now with this man because he's claiming to speak with God as well. He's claiming to have knowledge of past, present, and future and she is now becoming fixated on this person because in her mind, this person is the partner that Charles is not.

He is checking all of the boxes from a spiritual awakening point of view that Charles apparently was falling short of.

It wasn't long after that when the Vallow family's time in Hawaii came to an end, marked by financial struggles and conflicts over Lori's increasingly extreme religious beliefs. In 2016, the Vallow family moved back to Arizona. Colby was of course the oldest child, but also now was a young adult at this point. So once the family moved back to Arizona, he moved out to live on his own.

and it was just Tylee and JJ who remained with Charles and Lori. Now, let's take a little sidebar and move on to Chad, because I'm just going to preface this whole thing by saying, I think Chad is an ultra huge loser. I really do. And not to be like petty and snarky, but there's happened times where instead of Chad Daybell, I call him Chad Dumbbell. I just really hate

hate him. I hate his stupid face. I hate everything that he stands for. And honestly, that has nothing to do even with the crimes he's being charged with. He just seems like a person who just sucks overall. And honestly, if Lori saw that in the first place, we wouldn't even be here right now discussing this, but she was just enamored with this loser of a man.

Anyways, Chad was born on August 11th, 1968 in Provo, Utah. He grew up in Utah and he graduated from Brigham Young University with a degree in journalism in 1992. Now, interesting little fact here, Chad worked as a cemetery gravedigger for several years before he transitioned into writing and publishing these books on religious topics and spiritual beliefs and all of these things. But full stop, he was a gravedigger.

That's a red flag, as you see where this case goes. It is like the reddest flag of them all, like deep burning crimson red flag. Bold, underlined, 72 point font red flag, which I apologize to any gravediggers listening. It's not a targeted red flag at you. It's on this guy and you'll see why.

Chad was also married at this time. He was married and he had five children, who are now adults, and his wife Tammy and all of the family lived in Salem, Idaho, near Rexburg, Idaho.

He was the owner of Spring Creek Book Company, and he published several books about his near-death experiences, including the Standing in Holy Places series, which this series centers around his beliefs in the LDS Church and its teachings about the end times and the second coming of Jesus Christ.

Chad claimed to have gotten his spiritual abilities after his near-death experience, in which he said that his spirit separated from his body and he had contact with family members in heaven.

His teachings gained a following among several members of the LDS Church and others who shared very similar beliefs. However, his teachings and views have also been criticized by some as being very extreme and outside of mainstream LDS teachings, mainly because Chad claimed to have received revelations and visions that led him to believe in the imminent end of the world and the second coming of Jesus Christ.

Which, let me just say, for a cult leader, real original.

real original I don't think that I have ever read about a cult watched a documentary about a cult where the self-proclaimed prophet wasn't talking about the end of the world and the second coming of Christ and scaring his followers and believers into do this because when he when Christ comes back he's going to only save those who are worthy so you better be worthy you better do this it's like real original Chad real original I swear I

I'm going to digress for a second, but all of these cult leaders and self-proclaimed prophets really don't have an original thought. Not only the end of the world and doomsday, but were all of these cult leaders magically all told by God how they need to be having sex with multiple women or underage women and how they need to take multiple wives? How is it that that's the one common thread through all of these crazy ass cults? It just get original guys get original.

So Lori and Chad reportedly met as Lori was a big, obsessive super fan of his books. And they met in 2018 at a religious gathering in St. George, Utah. This gathering was called Preparing a People. And it said that when they met, they were both just enamored with each other. Lori with Chad's spiritual gifts and Chad with Lori's beauty.

Lori's friends said that there was a connection between the two of them, with Chad telling Lori that they've actually, get this, been married in multiple past lives. Lori sought spiritual guidance, advice, and blessings from Chad, who was this self-proclaimed, you know, visionary who says that they had been married in the past, and Chad

Let me just say this, guys. If I was ever in a convention or a bar or a restaurant and some guy just cruised up to me and said, oh, Annie, you know what? We've been married in the past and past several lives, as a matter of fact. As like a way to hit on me, I'd probably call the police immediately and let them know that there is a nut job on the loose, a possible stage five clinger in the making. Not, I wouldn't respond by being like, oh my God.

You're right. We probably have been married in the past. We probably have lived so many different marriages together and so many lives together. Tell me more. Tell me more. No, no, no, no, no. Red flag.

Several weeks after their initial meeting, Lori's husband left town on a business trip, and Lori held a very intimate overnight gathering at her home. Chad happened to be in town at the time because he was planning on speaking at another Preparing of the People conference in Mesa, Arizona.

So allegedly, Chad was seen just lavishing attention on Lori and talking super in-depth about his beliefs and the deeper mysteries of God. And Chad stated that he had lived 31 different lives on various Earth-like planets.

It's getting a little weird, guys. And he referred to others as light or dark individuals based on various graduations in between. And that's really important to note here because we are going to talk about that more as we continue.

Chad believed that the dark individuals were from this earth, but were followers of Satan. Those who were light individuals were followers of Jesus Christ. So Chad, of course, referred to Lori as an eternal being of 21 separate lives, only five of which that had occurred on this planet, the same five that he lived on this planet.

So Lori was both thrilled and attracted to this belief system and became increasingly fixated on this newfound purpose and on chat. Oh, sorry. Excuse me. See, I'm allergic to these people. I'm allergic to these people.

So she becomes increasingly fixated on this newfound purpose and on Chad. He's telling her they both have lived all of these previous lives, five of which were on this earth together. They were married, which surprise, surprise, as time went on, Lori and Chad started having an affair after all of this.

Big shocker, right? And I bet you anything it was at God's will that God came down and told Chad, hey, you better put your pee in her veggie because you both lived previous lives together and you're going to live happily ever after and you're soulmates. And Lori, it's okay. It's okay. God told me that you should cheat on your husband, Charles, with me because we're destined to be together. We're soulmates. So enter affair started. So in her free time,

Lori began to co-host with a friend named Melanie Gibb on a podcast called Feel the Fire, and Chad also made guest appearances on this podcast.

Most of the episodes have now been removed, but I did find this episode and I wanted to play a few clips from it because this is where Chad was on the show and it just shows the level of bizarre that we are dealing with here. There really isn't a nice way of putting this and it's not about religion that I'm ragging on at all here, but you can hear Melanie in the beginning and then the meek

high-pitched, trying-to-be-sexy voice is Lori. You can literally hear in her voice how giddy she was around Chad, and it just really makes me nauseous.

Today's episode of Serialistly is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Now, most of you listening right now are probably multitasking. Yes, I know you are. While you're listening to me talk, you're probably also driving, cleaning, exercising, or maybe even grocery shopping. But if you are not in some kind of moving vehicle, there is something else you can be doing right now, getting an auto quote from Progressive Insurance.

It's easy and you could save money by doing it right from your phone. Drivers who save by switching to Progressive save nearly $750 on average. And auto customers qualify for an average of seven discounts. Discounts for having multiple vehicles on your policy, being a homeowner, and more. So just like your favorite podcast, Progressive will be with you 24-7, 365 days a year, so you're protected no matter what.

Multitask right now. Quote your car insurance at Progressive.com to join the over 28 million drivers who trust Progressive. Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and Affiliates. National average 12-month savings of $744 by new customers surveyed who saved with Progressive between June 2022 and May 2023. Potential savings will vary. Discounts not available in all states and situations.

Go to ssa.gov slash extra help.

Paid for by the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services. On our podcast, Fill the Fire. And this morning we had an opportunity to interview someone named Chad Daybell, who's had many experiences with the Savior of this world.

So we're here with Chad Daybell, and he is on our Feel the Fire podcast today, and we really want to talk to Chad about his experiences with Jesus. And we know that you've had some pretty amazing experiences, and that's what we're here to do, is to testify of Jesus and who He is and who He is to us. So, Chad, hi. Hello. Glad to be on the podcast with you. Thank you. We're excited to have you and happy that you could come on with us today.

And so it was a time of rejuvenation. We talk about a new Jerusalem. That's the era I saw and that much of the world was in chaos and still in war and trial. But I was shown that Jesus will come even ahead of time before his second coming and help establish his people. And that's what I was shown is that my family will be able to help him and he'll

be appreciative of us as we raise our families in righteousness. And we'll know Him. And when you take part in the atonement that He offers us, then you have part in Him and you'll know Him. Exactly. I love that. But to be clear, His eyes are crystal blue. Is that correct? Is that what you're talking about?

Yeah, crystal blue is the best description, I suppose. That's what the people want to hear. They want to know. Yeah. It's a big debate at my house because of all the different portraits. It's a big debate at my house. And they may not have been blue when he was on the earth. Is that what you're saying? This is in his resurrected state. Yeah, I was seeing him in his resurrected state, and that's what I saw. Yeah.

Lori's friend Melanie later said that she heard Chad and Lori talking about zombies, where people whose souls were replaced by dark spirits, they then turned into a zombie. Lori's friend from Hawaii, April, called Lori one day to catch up, and completely not knowing how deep Lori was into all of this, and she said that Lori started referring to her husband Charles as one of these zombies or demons.

and she had said that Charles actually passed away, and his body was taken over by a zombie. Huge red flag. Now, the term zombie refers to an individual whose mortal spirit has left their body, and that their body is now the host of another spirit. The new spirit is a zombie, and is always considered to be a dark spirit.

While the dark spirit inhabits the host body, the person's true spirit goes into what's called limbo, and it's stuck there until the host body is physically killed. Almost like a purgatory, I guess.

So Chad was the one who designated people as zombies, according to a spectrum of light and dark that he always would code people as, their vibration levels, and the trust scales, which I will get more into in a little bit here. But for now, Charles was enemy number one and was the first zombie in this story.

And I bet you can guess why. Why was Charles a zombie? Let's ask the whole class. Obviously, because it's Lori's husband and Chad was boning Lori. So they had to get rid of Charles so that they could be together. So what better way than to say, oh no, Charles is actually a dark spirit. He's a zombie. He's dead. His soul's dead. He's stuck in limbo. We have to save him by killing the physical version of his body and the zombie version of him so that Charles can go to heaven, go be with Jesus, and then you and I can be together.

I mean, tale as old as time, am I right? Now, while all of this was going on, Lori would go daily to the Mormon temple in Mesa, Arizona, and she would spend time in what was called the Celestial Room. This was at the temple, and this is where she would feel like she was communicating with those on the other side of the veil. Lori and Chad also believed that regular temple visits increased their vibrations,

and their ability to teleport. Guys, I am not making this up. I know you think like this is way too fucking weird, Annie. I am not making this up. Then on December 5th, 2018, Chad and Lori appeared together on the Prepping a People podcast episode called Time to Warrior Up.

Chad later stayed at Lori's residence in Arizona. And spoiler alert, later in this story, we will find definitive proof that they are, in fact, not able to teleport at all. Which, hi, spoiler alert. I'm sure we all saw that coming. Not big surprise. People can't teleport. If you're watching this or listening to this and you think you have the ability to teleport, you don't. And if somebody tells you they do, they don't. They're lying. Okay. I'm glad we got that cleared up.

Lori's husband, Charles, was beginning to notice just how drastic Lori had changed during all of this as she's becoming more fixated and obsessed with Chad. And according to Charles, Lori became infatuated, at times obsessive, about near-death experiences and these spiritual visions.

Laurie told Charles that she is sealed, eternally married to the ancient Book of Mormon prophet Moroni, which, let's drop the E and just say Mormon, or Moron, Moron the Mormon? I don't even know. And also told her that she had lived numerous lives on numerous planets prior to this current life. Laurie believed that she was Joseph Smith's natural grandmother. And Charles was saying, as she's starting to unravel and tailspin,

that Lori apparently didn't want anything to do with him, JJ, their adopted son, because she was apparently assigned by God to carry out the work of 144,000 high priests who will administer the everlasting gospel at the end of the world. Mm-hmm.

Charles reportedly discovered emails between Lori and Chad in January of 2019, which also led to him becoming very suspicious of their relationship. Charles and Lori were still married at the time, but their relationship was strained due to Lori's growing interest in Chad and her increasing involvement in what he believed to be a religious doomsday cult.

Now, we have to pause for a second here because what the actual F is going on? So apparently Lori believes that she is the reincarnated grandmother of Joseph Smith and

Which, let's just say, let's talk about keeping it in the family here. Because, I mean, I think we've all got that one relative who thinks they are royalty or something like that. But Laurie is now taking it to an entirely new level. Which, who knows? Maybe Laurie's onto something. Maybe she's just been watching too much of 90s sitcoms where characters claim to be related to famous people. I don't know. Either way, it feels like a really weird flex. But, okay, Laurie. Okay. Okay.

Now, after Charles' most recent discovery of the emails, Charles begged Lori to visit a mental health facility, but she wouldn't go. And her reasoning was simple. The doctors would realize that she was a translated being and no longer a mortal being, which obviously. Things were getting worse, and Charles was really starting to get scared after Lori called him one day and told her that she didn't trust him and that she would have to kill him when he got home.

According to records, Lori said, you're not Charles. I don't know who you are or what you did with Charles, but I can murder you now with my powers. She also told Charles that she had an angel there to help her dispose of the body. So Charles, of course, contacted the Gilbert Police Department to obtain an emergency mental health petition for his wife, and the couple separated that night.

She threatened to murder you? Yes. How did she do that? My bishop right there is in the car. He was on the phone with me today when she said, I will have you destroyed, is what she said there. Okay, that's not a threat to kill you. Yesterday was a threat to kill me. What did she say yesterday? She said, you're not Charles. I don't know who you are, what you did with Charles, but I can murder you now with my powers.

Okay. Okay? All right. So she's speaking as a spiritual being? How old is she? 45.

So if we talk to her, is she going to be able to have a rational conversation with us? Oh, she will. I'm sure she will. She'll probably tell me I'm crazy, huh? Is that what you suspect? You're a dark spirit, is what she's going to tell you. I'm a dark spirit. And then...

She said that she would murder you through a spiritual... No, she said, I can murder you. I can murder you. And she's talking in a spiritual... I will kill you. Spiritual... No, she talks in physically. I will kill you because you're not Charles. And nobody will care. So she at this point doesn't think you are her husband? She thinks I'm Mick Schneider. Who's Mick Schneider? I have no idea. Okay. It's a name she used. I don't know where it came from. Okay. I'm just like, I'm as bewildered as you are. This is so foreign to me.

Normal people, as far as I'm concerned, that, you know, this happened, it just drives me, I don't know what to do. I need help, and she needs help. She needs help. Gilbert police eventually concluded that there was no information obtained that Lori had committed a crime. There was also no information obtained that Charles and Lori's children were in any danger. So Lori actually laughed about it at the police station. They can hold you for 24, 48, however long they deem it necessary to get you evaluated.

Based off just what your husband says. Yeah, so Doctors played sorry So

Because I'm really the one that did something wrong. But here's the thing is, I don't know and I'm not going to take sides. After this, police say she willingly went to Community Bridges for an evaluation, but that she was discharged a few hours later. On February 4th, 2019, Charles filed for an order of protection, wanting to keep Lori away from JJ, his school, and their Gilbert home.

In these documents, Charles said that Laurie accused him of being a man named Nick Schneider, sometimes referring to him as Ned, noting that Charles was in genuine fear for his life.

So sometime after, Lori disappeared for 58 days, and she left Tylee and JJ with other family members. After completely liquidating $35,000 that Lori and Charles had in a bank account, she just straight up vanished, according to Charles and his family. And nobody knows exactly where she went, but according to a friend of Lori's, she might have spent some time in Hawaii with Chad Daybell.

Charles expressed his concerns regarding his marriage to Lori and her involvement with a religious group called Preparing a People in emails that he was sending to family members. In one email he sent to his sister-in-law, Charles shared his worries about Lori's mental state and her involvement with the group. And he wrote,

In another email that he sent to his brother-in-law, Charles had stated that he was considering filing for divorce, and he wrote, So while Lori was out on her 58-day hiatus, Charles filed for divorce from her, and in the divorce documents, Charles petitioned for sole custody of JJ because he did not think that Lori was mentally stable enough to make decisions for him.

Charles said in the documents that two weeks before he filed for divorce, Lori took some of his and JJ's belongings while he was out away on a business trip, including JJ's iPad, medication, and clothing, and that she wouldn't answer requests to return them. Charles explained that the iPad was essential to keeping JJ calm because he has autism disorder and ADHD and prefers a routine.

Additionally, in the document, it says that the mother has also never contacted father about JJ's well-being or requested any parenting time with JJ. The father is extremely concerned that the mother would abandon JJ and take JJ's necessities without even attempting to communicate or see JJ.

On February 26th, Charles also discovered the password to his life insurance policy account was changed a few days earlier on February 20th, and he believes that it was changed by Lori. But for some reason, with all of this and all these red flags, Charles later withdrew the petition for divorce. Even though he was so concerned and all of these red flags were flying, he withdrew the petition.

So Lori eventually made contact with Charles, who had already moved back to Houston, and her and Tylee joined them. A few months later, in the beginning of June of 2019, Lori and Charles exchanged heated text messages, where Charles was confronting Lori about her having an affair with Chad.

Today's episode of Serialistly is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Now, most of you listening right now are probably multitasking. Yes, I know you are. While you're listening to me talk, you're probably also driving, cleaning, exercising, or maybe even grocery shopping. But if you are not in some kind of moving vehicle, there is something else you can be doing right now, getting an auto quote from Progressive Insurance.

It's easy and you could save money by doing it right from your phone. Drivers who save by switching to Progressive save nearly $750 on average. And auto customers qualify for an average of seven discounts. Discounts for having multiple vehicles on your policy, being a homeowner, and more. So just like your favorite podcast, Progressive will be with you 24-7, 365 days a year, so you're protected no matter what.

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Go to ssa.gov slash extra help.

Charles had found an email where it looked like it was written by himself, by Charles, asking if Chad could come to Arizona to help him ghostwrite a book. The email said, I appreciate you taking the time to talk with me about the book I've been working on.

And then it continues a little bit with honestly just a bunch of bullshit and it's not even really worth repeating. And then a few sentences later, the email says, So I will cut to the chase. I'm willing to pay you well to help me get this book into shape as my ghostwriter. I really liked your autobiography and the tone you took in sharing your experiences without preaching. Is there any way you could come here for a couple of days and help me get the book underway?

I feel like talking in person would be much more valuable than a phone call or video chat, mainly because I would like you to read through some of my journals and explain to me how the publishing industry works. The letter continues on after that, but that's really the gist of it. Now, get this. Number one, at this point, according to Lori, Charles was Ned or Nick Schneider, remember? So why would he be writing to this person who deemed him as a zombie?

And Charles knew that something was really fishy here because he didn't write that email. So in his text exchange with Lori, he says, then tell me why you used my name and fictitious email to send a BS email about a book that I am having him ghostwrite for me. It's fraud and a lie. There's no reason for it other than to get him to Arizona and have an excuse for his wife.

You did this. I had nothing to do with it, and you know it. Also, he did not stay with us in November. I will find out.

So obviously a red flag. Charles never even sent this email. She sent it. She made up the fake email address, whether it's an excuse to get Chad over to visit with her, whether it's code for something else, which some people believe it was. Charles saw this and he's like, this makes no sense. I'm calling you out on these lies. I'm calling you out for the affair. What the heck is going on?

So after this, Charles set up a house in Chandler, Arizona for Lori and the kids to live in while he was still living in Houston. He did this because of JJ's special needs because there were certain schools that fit him better and those schools were back in Arizona where they were living before.

So Lori, Tylee, and JJ all moved back to Arizona. But Charles was still pissed. So a couple of weeks later, Charles actually sent a message to Chad Daybell's wife, Tammy. And this message said, This is your work email, so I'll wait to send you the evidence that is very disturbing.

You may call or email me from the address where you can receive the information. I apologize to be the one sending this, but something has to be done. I feel it's best if I shed some light on the issue. And then after that, Charles sent an email to Chad saying he knew he was having an affair with Lori. Which, let me just say, I absolutely love Charles through all of this. You've got to hand it to him. He's dealing with this crazy situation. His estranged wife...

who's having an affair, who's a doomsday believer, who's in this cult, he's seeing all the red flags, he's looping in Chad's wife, trying to give her the heads up and calling them all out on it. I mean, you gotta hand it to him. He's handling the situation with grace, to say the least. Now, as this whole estrangement is underway, Lori told her family that the reason that her and Charles were separated was because Charles was the one that had an affair, not her, which, of course, let's gaslight everyone. And, of course, her family believed her.

She also told them not to believe anything that Charles said and not to answer any phone calls or emails from him because he was just a huge liar. So when Charles would send emails about Lori's behavior, they thought that it was actually Charles who was the one that's out of his mind and was lying and having an affair,

But then he contacted Adam Cox, who was the only family member of Lori's who would talk to him. So the two of them decided to record their conversations with Lori on their phones in hopes that she would admit to being the one having the affair. If they were able to, Charles planned on taking that recording to religious leaders to expose both Lori and Chad, which they could then face disciplinary action as part of repentance or maybe even excommunication.

Which to those of us who are not Mormon, let me just say to you that it's pretty much the worst thing that could happen to you. And it's taken very, very seriously by members of the church. But Charles would never get the chance to do that because it all came to a screeching halt.

On July 11th, Charles arrived at Lori's rental home in Chandler, Arizona. He went there to see their son, JJ. And according to reports, Charles was scheduled to drop his son off at school. But upon entering the home, he was fatally shot by Lori's brother, Alex Cox.

Alex claimed that he had acted in self-defense and he was protecting his sister Lori during a confrontation that was happening between Lori and Charles. Both Lori and Tylee, who were reportedly present during the shooting, cooperated Alex's story and claimed that the shooting was in an act of self-defense. Lori and Tylee both went to the police station for interviews and to give their statements.

Now I want to play a few clips of her interview because this is really the only video available that shows Lori, her demeanor, and her talking on video a little bit more in depth. So if you're listening just to the audio version of this and you want to see it, definitely hop over to my YouTube channel to where the video version of all of these Serialistly podcasts are so you can see all of the footage.

Well, so we moved into this house three weeks ago because he offered to get me a house here where all my family is over in Houston. And so he's like, we had decided to separate or whatever. So we, he's like, well, I'll pay for a house for you and for JJ and whatever, because he's all about JJ. He's never about Tylee, but he's all about JJ. And so we adopted him as a baby. And so we've been raising him together.

And he travels all the time for business, so he's used to just going back and forth. So he's always gone like Monday through Friday. So he came when we first moved in and brought me stuff from Houston, like a U-Haul. And then he hasn't been back. But it's all these threats on my phone all the time, you know, like whatever, all these things. And then he told me... What kind of threats? Just... You'd have to read them to know. He's always mad at me, right? And he...

doesn't want a divorce but I don't like him and don't want to deal with him so that's just how it is. So we've been married for 14 years, we've dealt with him for 14 years and him being horrible to her. Like he gets in huge fights with her. A lot of things. But anyway. So he said, I'm coming Wednesday night. All of a sudden. I want to see JJ. And I told him, I will never keep JJ from you. And we lived in Hawaii. He'd work in California. He'd work in Texas. He has like books of business in different areas. And so he just goes...

It kind of just gives him freedom that he doesn't have to stay home every day and take care of special needs children. Yeah. Fucking excuse. Right? So I've done that myself for the last seven years. And I had a single mom before I married him with my two kids. Yeah. And he had two kids. We got married, tried to make a family. Yeah. So I said, just go. And so he said, okay. So I gave him a backpack. He got in the car. This is his MO, right? He always leaves something in the house and comes back. He never leaves the first time. I always expect...

My husband had come back at the house today. So I guess he had left his phone on the counter. So he initially left with a backpack and with JJ? So he put them in the car, in the driveway, and then he came back in. Right? So I kissed JJ goodbye. He came back in, and his phone was on the counter, and I had his phone.

And he was like giving me my phone and I was like why don't you show me your text that you've been texting all the while. You know, whatever. Because he's like acting really weird like he's plotting something. I'm like why are you even here? Like what did you come here for? You know. He's been talking to my other brother and my brother came into town at the same time last night.

And I haven't talked to my brother in a while, my other brother. And so he was texting him on the phone when he first got to my house. And I'm like, why are you texting Adam? Do you even talk to him? Like my other brother. And he's been telling me all these texts like, you're going down.

blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah

Why would I have any control over what people do? Yeah. So, it's just very odd. Okay, let me just say, you have no idea why he would call you a family destroyer? Which, Lori, you know. You know that Charles told Tammy about your affair. You know he told Chad. You know exactly what he meant by your going down.

Ultimately, the police concluded that Charles' death was due to self-defense and no criminal charges were ever filed. And now it was time for Lori to notify Charles' family members. And get this, Lori texted Charles' two sons, who were teenagers at the time and lived with their mother. And this is the text message that she sends.

Hi, boys. I have very sad news. Your dad passed away yesterday. I'm working on making arrangements, and I'll keep you informed with what's going on. I'm still not sure how to handle things. Just want you to know that I love you, and so did your dad. And then she puts a heart emoji. So one of the boys, of course, responds and says, Lori, what happened? Where is he? What happened? And Lori responds, I'll call you when I can, bub. He is here in Arizona.

So the son asks, where in Arizona? Where did this happen? When did this happen? How is JJ doing? What funeral home is he at? And Lori doesn't answer for hours. So then he finally says, Lori, what the F happened? You can't just tell us our dad died and then disappear. You're not too busy to just let us know he died and disappear. And then later again, another text message.

Lori, it's been three hours. You're not that busy. I don't care what you're doing. So Lori finally replies, saying, I'm sorry that you're so upset. I'm upset too. I'm trying to get J.J. ready for bed. I'm waiting to hear back from the medical examiner to make sense out of all of this myself. Please be patient with me. It's a crushing situation all the way around. I'm still trying to process it too and what it means for J.J.,

Which, I'm sorry, what do you mean you're waiting to hear back from the medical examiner? If Alex shot Charles in self-defense, what would a medical examiner tell you that you don't already know? You don't know that Charles died of gunshot wounds. You don't know that there was an altercation. And the fact that she doesn't even have the decency to call these children and call the mother of these children to tell them what happened to their father, but chooses to just text message them and then ignore their text messages...

To me, it just shows that she was only thinking about herself and probably also trying to think about excuses, especially in that one part where she says in a very demeaning and gaslighting kind of way, in my opinion, I'm sorry you're upset. I'm upset too. God, it just, she is evil, evil, evil, evil. So after she sends that text message, the son replies saying, when and where is the funeral? How did all of this happen? I want an explanation. To

Two days later, he sends two question marks, but no response until finally Lori says, I'm still waiting, working on arrangements and sorting things out the best I can. I'll let you know when I know. He responds, why aren't you telling me what happened? I've asked numerous times. Just tell me.

Then he sends two question marks again with no response until he says,

What happened? When did it happen? How did it happen? Where is he now? Are there any funeral plans? Can my brother and I be a part of it?

We talked to him all of the time and now he's gone. He was our dad and we loved him very much. We deserve answers. Also, why have you been the only one to contact us? We haven't heard from Colby or Tylee. I know they are affected too. I called Colby recently too, but he didn't answer. Is JJ safe? And what does he know? I need to be kept in the loop about all of this. This isn't a nonchalant topic that you can just throw a text at and be done with it.

So Lori gets this text message and finally responds to it. And she says,

JJ is doing well, but he does not know his daddy is gone. So it's tough because he doesn't really understand. He says daddy is in California working. I know how much he loves you boys and always has. I have a lot of things to do with the business and contacting people and it's all so difficult. Today I'm trying to put up a memorial page on the funeral home website. I'll send the link when I have it. I love you and so does your dad.

To which he replies and appreciates this message, saying, Please, my brother and I deserve to know.

No response. So then he says, well, if you won't answer those questions, can we please have his watches and his other stuff he always talked about and had around? To which Lori then replies, of course, send me the address you want me to send your stuff to. Kay is supposed to clean out the Houston house. I told her to let you and your brother have whatever you want, then she could have or give away the rest. I know he wanted you to have all that you want. And that was it.

Which let me just say, major kudos to Charles' boys because they are calling Lori out and they are 150% correct.

Lori even told her oldest son, Colby, that Charles died of a heart attack. She constantly is switching stories and lying and hiding things. And it's always mind-blowing when people lie about these things that are obviously provable. But also, if it was self-defense, just tell the truth, right? Why do you need to lie? Why do you need to make a cover story? Just tell the truth. But again, Lori was incapable of telling the truth.

The fact that she thought that any of this was okay is just absolutely infuriating and so, so wrong. And Lori wasn't done yet, guys. And who am I speaking with? This is Lori Vallow. And your relationship to the insured? He's my husband. Okay, one moment. Okay, ma'am, I'm just going to need to ask you a few questions so that I can open the claim and then I can go through the claim procedure with you and answer any questions that you may have afterwards. Okay.

That would be great. Okay. And what was the date of Mr. Valvo's passing? July 11th. And what was the cause of his passing? Well, he was shot. Okay. So I don't know how I want to put that. Okay. All right. And I hate to ask, but is it, you can just say yes or no. Was it a homicide?

Lori had no idea that Charles had actually changed his $1 million life insurance policy beneficiary to his sister, who is JJ's grandmother, Kay Woodcock. And the beneficiary was no longer Lori.

Today's episode of Serialistly is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Now, most of you listening right now are probably multitasking. Yes, I know you are. While you're listening to me talk, you're probably also driving, cleaning, exercising, or maybe even grocery shopping. But if you are not in some kind of moving vehicle, there is something else you can be doing right now, getting an auto quote from Progressive Insurance.

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Paid for by the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services. So the intention was that all of this money would go to JJ. That's why he made his sister the beneficiary. And then Lori got a letter from the insurance company in the mail. And she texted Chad and she was pissed. The text message said, I just got the letter from the insurance company saying I am not the beneficiary. It's a spear through my heart.

Who do you think he changed it to? Brandon or probably Kay? He left nothing for JJ. Chad responds, wow, that's terrible. There's no way to find out with a question mark.

Then Lori says, Chad responds, Chad responds,

Lori responds, nope, he can change it anytime he wants. He's the agent and anyone can change their beneficiary anytime with their own signature. I'm thinking it must be K. Chad responds, hmm, it will be interesting if it got changed after he had two bullets in his chest.

Lori responds, I don't think it could have. You can't change it after death date. They would review that. Chad responds, yes, I am thinking K as well. She is probably freaking out that you got those computers. I'm going to shower and give you a blessing. I'm eager to get home so we can talk. It really will be okay, my love. You are wonderful.

So it looks like Chad Daybell's kind of at it again, trying to be like the ultimate smooth talker here and calm her down, which I mean, who else would suggest giving someone a blessing over a text message? But okay, fine. But I can just imagine him like sitting there typing away with his little like ugly, disgusting, sly grin on his face, thinking he's like super suave, super cool, like, oh,

oh we're gonna figure this out babe like I got you let me bless you Chad nobody wants your blessings look I have the chills thinking about it right now it's like he's trying to play the role of this like calm and collected leader but he's really coming across as just like an ultra total creep at least to me and don't even get me started on the you are wonderful comment it's just all so cringe

So a few months after Charles died, Lori moved to Rexburg, Idaho with her children, Tylee and JJ. Tylee was now 16 and JJ is now 7. Her brother Alex also moved with them. And Rexburg, let me remind you, is where Chad Daybell lives with his wife and his children.

So now that Charles is out of the way, now that her husband's out of the way, she scoops up the children and her henchman brother who just shot and killed Charles, and they all move to where the cult leader lives, the cult leader that she's in love with. Starting to flock up to Idaho. Now, if you're somebody who likes to foreshadow and guess what's about to happen next, what do you think is about to happen next? Her husband's out of the way.

But Chad is still with his wife in Idaho. And now that Lori is trailing all the way over to Idaho, somebody's in the way, right? So what's going to happen next? You tell me.

Now, I know the family dynamics get a little bit complicated in this case, so just as a reminder, JJ is Charles' sister Kay's biological grandson. I know that's a mouthful, I know. But Kay is married to Larry Woodcock, and the couple said that they cared for JJ shortly after his birth for about 10 months before, remember, Charles and Lori adopted JJ in 2013. Now, this is where the timeline begins again.

with the children, and it becomes extremely crucial. On August 10, 2019, Kay and Larry spoke with JJ for a 35-second FaceTime call. In September 2019, JJ and Tylee were last seen in Rexburg, Idaho, or that is what everybody believed at the time.

Just two months later, Kay and Larry began to worry about JJ's well-being. He moved to Rexburg with Lori. Nobody had heard from him. They hadn't talked to them. They were very worried about JJ. They usually talk to him all the time. They haven't heard from him. So they reached out to the police in their hometown of Louisiana, expressing concerns about JJ's whereabouts.

They hadn't heard from JJ or Lori in several weeks, and they were unable to get in touch with them. In November 2019, police in Idaho performed a welfare check on JJ, but Lori, and get this, her now new husband, Chad, refused to cooperate with authorities.

Yes, new husband, which we will get back to that in just one minute. They claimed that JJ was staying with a friend of theirs in Arizona, but when police checked that address, they found no sign of JJ. Now, let's talk about the marriage. Lori and Chad got married just a few weeks after the death of Chad's wife, Tammy Daybell.

Tammy Daybell died in October 2019, just a couple of months after Lori and the kids moved to Rexburg. The exact date of their marriage was unknown at the time, but it was believed to have taken place in Hawaii in early November 2019.

Now let me just talk to you about these wedding pictures and I'm going to describe them for those of you listening and not watching. It is so cringe. They are on the beach in Hawaii. Chad is playing like a ukulele or he's fake playing it while Lori has her arms waved like she's a, you know, Hawaiian hula dancer and they have these stupid dopey grins on their face. This picture forever gives me the ick. What on earth is this?

And more than that, where are your kids, Lori? Why wouldn't they be at your wedding? And Chad, my dude, did the dirt even settle on Tammy's grave before you took your sorry ass to Hawaii and had this cringe ceremony to Lori on the sand? Also, who the hell took these pictures? I need to know. I have serious questions about it.

So speaking of Tammy's death, her death was extremely odd. She wasn't sick, and there were absolutely no underlying health conditions. And she wasn't in a car accident. She wasn't in any freak accident, for that matter. In fact, she was as healthy as a horse. Now what's even weirder is that Chad actually told people that he had a prophecy that Tammy was going to die.

And he had this prophecy up to a year before, saying that she was going to die by a car crash. But that didn't happen. So instead, he said that she mysteriously died overnight. The circumstances surrounding Tammy's death were initially considered suspicious, but Chad insisted that she died due to natural causes. Natural causes at 49 years old.

How does that happen? How does somebody die of natural causes at 49 years old when they are in perfect health? So now it looks like Chad is like the ultimate trifecta, the triple threat. He's got the creepy smooth talker box checked. He's apparently a prophecy fortune teller and now coroner. And he knows how people die. So who needs a medical degree when you've got this prophecy walking around and tells you what's going to happen? Now,

Let's not forget, though, the fact that Tammy's death was initially considered as suspicious. So I guess that Chad must have missed the memo that by saying natural causes doesn't make it true. You can't just say it's natural causes and make it true when other people are saying it's suspicious.

Also, in another suspicious fact about this, the wedding ring that was used in Lori and Chad's marriage ceremony was purchased on Amazon through an account that belonged to Charles, Lori's late husband, and that wedding ring was purchased weeks before Tammy died. Tell me this, if she died of natural causes suddenly in her sleep...

How would Lori and Chad know they were going to be able to get married weeks before Tammy died? Was it another revelation? Was God speaking to them once again? How do you buy a wedding ring when you're still married before your spouse is even dead? How does that work? Unless you know they are going to die because you are going to have a hand in their death. Now, let's continue before we keep going into that whole rabbit hole.

In late November 2019, authorities in Idaho issued a court order requiring Lori to produce her two children, Lori Vallow and Tylee Ryan. The order required Lori to physically produce the children to the Idaho Department of Health and Welfare in Rexburg, Idaho, and she had to produce them no later than January 30, 2020.

Now, I remember this. We were, everybody who was following this case was on watch, glued to their screens because at this point,

According to the media and the public, all the public knew at this point was that this woman and her new husband, the children were missing. And nobody knew where the children were. And now she had a deadline of about two months to produce the children. Otherwise, she would be arrested. But nobody knew about the deep-rooted cult. Nobody knew about the suspicious death of Tammy. Nobody knew about the suspicious circumstances of Charles.

which we'll talk more about that, nobody knew about a lot of these things. It just looked like, why isn't this woman sharing where her children are if they are in fact safe? It was very bizarre. And in December, the Rexburg Police Department published a press release asking for the public's health in the location of JJ and Tylee, who had not been seen since September of 2019.

Now, this case, like I said, caught national media attention, and it went like wildfire. And there was an attorney named Sean Bartholick who claimed to be Daybell's lawyer, and he put out a statement which read,

now Devo, is a devoted mother and resents assertions to the contrary. We look forward to addressing the allegations once they have moved beyond speculation and rumor. Later on, a $20,000 reward was offered for information leading to JJ and Tylee, and this reward was offered from Kay and Larry Woodcock.

But Lori was nowhere to be found. Nobody knew where Lori was, and authorities were looking for Lori. And funny enough, she was spotted in an airport in Hawaii with Chad.

Finally, five days before the order deadline, Lori and Chad were found in the city of Princeville, located on the island of Kauai in Hawaii. The order was served to Lori, demanding that she physically produce JJ and Tylee to the Idaho Department of Health and Welfare in Rexburg within five days of being served with that order, which...

That should be easy enough, right? Just bring your kids in and stop being so shady. Where would your kids be, Lori? Reporters found them in Hawaii when they were served with that court order. They were asked about JJ and Tylee and what do you know, Lori and Chad walked hand in hand with smug looks on their faces and refused to speak other than Lori when she made a very sarcastic statement. Nate Eaton with East Idaho News. Can you tell me where your kids are?

Where are your kids? No comment. No comment? They've been missing for four months. You have nothing to say? You're over here in Hawaii? Where are your children? Yeah, why don't you just give us a comment? Just tell us where they are. Chad, where are Lori's kids? What happened to Tammy, Chad? Can you tell us what happened to Tammy? Why have you guys been in Hawaii for so long? Listen, just tell people what's happening. There's people around the country praying for your children, praying for you guys. Why don't you give us answers? That's great. That's great.

That's great that they're praying for you, praying for your kids. What? You have nothing to say? Did you do something to your children? Are your children still alive? That's a simple question. I've got three kids of my own. I can tell you every minute where my kids are at. Where are your children? What do you guys plan to do now? Are you going to, you have five days to get your children in front of a judge in Rexburg, then what? Are you guys innocent of any crimes? Have you committed any crimes? Chad, you guys have a lot to say on your podcast. You don't have anything to say now? Lori?

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However, despite the court order, Lori failed to produce the children, and she was subsequently charged with two counts of desertion and non-support of children, as well as contempt of court. In January 2020, authorities searched Lori's home in Rexburg, Idaho, as well as a storage unit that she rented nearby.

During the search, investigators found children's bikes, a scooter, winter clothing, a photo album with photos of JJ and Tylee as well. Family members and the public were pleading with Lori, where is Tylee? Where is JJ? Where are your kids? And Lori continued to refuse to cooperate with authorities.

Instead, Lori and Chad were in Hawaii, living in a gated community, staying at different resorts, biking together all around the island of Kauai, while everybody was searching for JJ and Tylee. Lori never produced her children in Rexburg by the deadline, so in February of 2020, she was arrested in Hawaii on those charges related to desertion and non-support of children, as well as the charge of contempt of court.

Lori's bail was initially set at $5 million following her arrest in Hawaii. The bail amount was based on the severity of the charges against her, and she remained in custody in Hawaii while she awaited extradition to Idaho to face the charges against her. In March of 2020, Lori waived her right to fight extradition, and she was transported back to Idaho, where she was then held on a $1 million bail.

Now, you would think by then she would just give up and she would tell where her children are or at least indicate if they were alive or not. Her older son, Colby, begged and pleaded, which was also recorded during these jail phone calls he had with Lori. While Lori was in jail, she would frequently call Chad as well, who was still by her side and even was present during her first bail hearing.

And Lori's appearance at her first hearing in Idaho was a lot. She was smiling. She was prancing around in the courtroom like nothing happened. Like she put on some jailhouse makeup and looked like a clown with this orange

ultra red lipstick and it looked bizarre. Colby was also there and said that Lori didn't even look at him once throughout the hearing. But don't worry though because she made sure to look at Chad throughout the hearing. And again, Lori, why are you acting like this is some sort of jailhouse beauty contest? Your children have been missing now for six months and you've made zero effort to help find them and you're acting like you could not care less.

In the summer of 2020, months, months, almost a year has gone by that these kids have been missing. And the disappearance of JJ and Tylee continue to be a mystery, with authorities struggling to piece together the events leading up to their disappearance. However, in June of that year in 2020, a major breakthrough occurred. Investigators, as well as the FBI, paid a visit to Chad's house, where they combed through Chad's property in Fremont County, Idaho.

Lori called Chad while this search was going on, and this is one of the eeriest phone calls I think I've ever heard. Hi, Dad. Hello. Are you okay? They're searching the property. The house right now? Yeah. Yeah. That means they'll be talking to you. What, are they in the house? No, they're out in the property. Are they seizing stuff again? They're searching...

I love you so much. Thanks, I love you. Should I try to call you later? I don't know. I don't know. You can try, yeah? I'll answer if I can. Okay. I love you and I'll talk soon. Okay, baby. I love you. Okay. Love you. Bye.

If you noticed, neither one of them is saying, what are they looking for? Why would they be looking for my kids on your property? How could they think that we had anything to do with this? Or, oh my God, did they find my kids? Are they dead? No, they're just talking like they both know exactly what is going on and what is going to happen to them. Almost not speaking in code, but you can definitely get the underlying feeling there that they know what's about to happen.

It wasn't long after the phone call when investigators stumbled upon a truly shocking discovery. Human remains were found buried on the property in Chad's backyard, and forensic analysis later revealed that the remains belonged to JJ and Tylee. Chad was immediately arrested, but not before he tried to book it and bail out, but he was pulled over literally across the street. He is so pathetic it's unreal. He tried to flee and he got across the street and they caught up with him.

The discovery of the children's remains brought the missing person's search, of course, to a tragic end with a very disturbing conclusion, raising many questions about what had happened to them and who was involved. Now, at this point, the circumstances surrounding the deaths of JJ and Tylee, as well as the events leading up to their disappearance, completely remained under investigation, with many wondering what other dark secrets might be lurking beneath the surface of

or if JJ and Tylee's deaths were connected to Lori's involvement with her cult-like religion. Because now there was finally a loose thread in the web of Lori, Vallow, and Chad Daybell. The thread was being tugged on.

the children's bodies emerged and this was completely about to unravel and the web of lies the secrecy and the deceit surrounding charles's death tammy's death the children's death lori's other previous ex-husband's death and alex cox lori's brother's death he died as well he died right after the wedding between lori and chad

And we're going to talk more about that. All of that was now on display. And this little thread that had been being pulled on was about to expose everything.

And guys, I hate to do it to you, but that is where we are going to end this week's episode of Serialistly. This was part one of two parts for the Lori Vallow and Chad Daybell saga. So part two is coming where we are going to break down what happened after the children's remains were discovered on Chad's property, what happened

weird text messages he had sent to his wife who was still living at the time when the bodies were placed on that property we're going to go into all of it all of the suspicious deaths and we are going to talk through the evidence portion of Lori's trial as it is ongoing right now

now and we are going to loop all of that in to part two where we go through the house of cards that just fell on these two cult monsters so make sure that you are following along on this podcast or subscribed to youtube if you're watching the video version of this so that you can stay updated of all things of this doomsday cult

All right, guys, thank you so much for listening with me today. If you enjoyed this podcast episode, please don't forget to give it a quick rating and review below. I appreciate it so much. And leave your comments in the comment section on YouTube, and I'm going to answer some of those in the next video for any questions you have about this case, any red flags you see, and I'm going to pull a handful of those to answer at the end of next episode.

All right, guys, thanks so much for hanging out with me today and talking all things Lori Vallow and Chad Dumbbell. I just hate these two so, so much. And this trial is going to be bananas. So get ready for part two because it is going to blow your mind. All right, guys, I will talk to you very, very soon. Thanks again for tuning in with me on this episode of Serialistly. And I will see you next Monday, bright and early. All right, bye.

An official message from Medicare. A new law is helping me save more money on prescription drug costs. You may be able to save too. With Medicare's Extra Help program, my premium is zero and my out-of-pocket costs are low. Who should apply? Single people making less than $23,000 a year or married couples who make less than $31,000 a year. Even if you don't think you qualify, it pays to find out. Go to ssa.gov slash extra help.

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