168: Karen Read SPEAKS, Justin Timberlake Arrested, & International Manhunt for 2-year-old!
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Hey, true crime besties. Welcome back to an all new episode of Serialistly. Hey, everybody. Welcome back to an all new episode of Serialistly with Annie Elise, headline highlights edition. Now, I got to give you a little bit of a disclaimer. I am recording not from my usual studio. I'm currently in New York. I'm in the Hamptons.

trying to vacay but you know true crime never sleeps so I'm going to be on the mic with you all along the way letting you know what's going on but in case the mic quality sounds a little bit different that is why now it's interesting because coincidentally the first case that we're going to be talking about today happened right here in the Hamptons and guys you know what just in

Timberlake he told me he was fine to drive he told me he was okay to drive no I'm just kidding we weren't with him but Justin Timberlake was arrested for a DWI and also for two other citations right here in the Hamptons and it was in the early morning hours of Tuesday June 18th now according to the arrest report he was stopped after a police officer saw his 2025 BMW just drive right through a stop sign and then also failed to keep on the right side of the roadway

There were different indications and different reports saying he was kind of swerving in and out of the lanes. Who knows?

who knows what the truth is, but it was enough for this cop to pull him over. And the cop also said that when he did pull him over, his eyes were quote, bloodshot and glassy. The cop also said that there was a strong odor of alcohol coming from his breath, that he wasn't able to give his divided attention to the police officer. He had slowed speech. He was unsteady on his feet. And then when he was doing the field sobriety test, he also did not perform completely well.

So he was taken into Sag Harbor Police Headquarters for processing around 12.37 a.m., where apparently there he told authorities that he would not do a chemical test, which is what is done to determine his blood alcohol level, and he also refused to take a breathalyzer three separate times. The arrest report also stated that Justin said, quote,

So he was arraigned on DWI charges in the Hamptons, and his next court hearing is set for July 26. Now, obviously, he has since been released from jail, and some sources have spoken out with the media, and they said that his wife, Jessica Beal, was not with him.

that he seemed a little bit upset at his court appearance as well. But also there were reports that he was sipping on other people's drinks while he was at this bar. I think it was the American Bar Hotel in the Hamptons in Sag Harbor, if I am remembering correctly, and that he was like drinking other people's drinks when they went to the bathroom. Who knows what?

what really happened, but we do know that he was intoxicated. And it's also, I just got to say, it's got to be pretty embarrassing and not a good look for somebody who has just this endless supply of money, who could easily afford an Uber, a taxi, maybe even a private driver, which yes, I'm sure he has several, for them to just be caught driving under the influence, which is arguably one of the most selfish and stupid actions that somebody can do.

It not only puts yourself at risk, but it also puts other people in serious danger. And it's a well-known fact that drunk drivers have taken the lives of many innocent adults and children across the country for decades. So I didn't want to

I didn't pay a lot of attention in the past because he has been under scrutiny, I will say, in the past two, three years, not only for cheating allegations, but also for everything involving Britney because Justin got a lot of heat semi-recently for allegedly telling Britney Spears to get an abortion, which...

To be clear, it seems that ultimately she made that choice too. But I do remember the public being pretty pissed off at him. So I don't feel like this situation is going to help if people are still mad about that or even still mad about him cheating on Jessica Biel when he was holding hands with that girl and the paparazzi caught him. But apparently in Britney's memoir, she also wrote, quote, abortion was something I never could have imagined choosing for myself.

But given the circumstances, this is what we did. If he didn't want to become a father, I didn't feel like I had much of a choice. I wouldn't want to push him into something he didn't want. Our relationship was too important to me.

So ultimately, Justin broke up with Britney sometime after they ended the pregnancy. And according to an article by Vulture, he went on to perpetuate this narrative that his ex was to blame for the breakup. This was during this press tour for his 2002 debut album called Justified.

He even cast a Britney Spears lookalike in the music video, if you remember, for Cry Me a River, that single. It was like this girl who had the sideways little newsboy cap. She was walking through and it was all allegedly about how she cheated on him and then she wanted him back. And he did this hit song, Cry Me a River. Everybody turned on Britney. But in reality, she's actually saying that she left him because of the ended pregnancy. All of this thing. I mean, you can go down the rabbit hole for sure. But in...

In her book, she wrote,

now again take this for what you will i personally don't take a lot from the daily mail personally or for inside sources that they claim to have but they do say that he has been drinking a lot more that he's been doing this to escape all of the backlash that he's received over this memoir from britney spears and the mounting pressure that has also come from that with some sources even saying that he has arrived at tour rehearsals a reeking of booze on more than one occasion

But to all that, here's what I have to say. Not only bye-bye-bye, Justin, but also, like, crybaby.

Cry me a river. Like, nobody cares. It doesn't give you an excuse to drink and drive. Certainly not when you have the means. I personally have lost friends to drunk drivers. It is something I personally will never and ever, ever tolerate or understand. But we'll see what happens. I gotta be honest. It's probably something where he will get a slap on the wrist. Nobody will really remember it. He probably will drink and drive again. But...

For us, we got to talk about it because it's in the news. People are talking about it and this guy should definitely not get a pass.

Speaking of people who should not get a pass, I want to talk about this plastic surgeon who was charged with murder. So a plastic surgeon in Florida named Dr. Benjamin Brown has been charged with the murder of his wife, Hillary Ellington Brown. He was charged after she had cardiac arrest while he was operating on her.

He was giving her a cosmetic procedure, including liposuction, lip injections, and ear adjustments when all of this went down. And it went down back on November 21st, 2023.

According to the arrest report, Dr. Brown failed to call 911 for nearly 20 minutes, all while his wife had a seizure on the operating table after she, quote, took a plethora of pills before this operation. Then, after the seizure, she went into cardiac arrest.

The arrest report also says that Hillary participated in the operation itself and that she even prepared her own IV bags, which contained the anesthetic, everything that she would need medically before going under this procedure, before her husband began operating on her. However, it also says that Dr. Brown gave her additional anesthesia, but he didn't specify what he used, he didn't record the dosages and his paperwork, nothing like that.

and one former employee said that he actually deliberately gave her more than was appropriate for her petite size because she was small-framed. And in the arrest documents, it says, quote, she said that he referred to the victim as his, quote, little alien, and that he intentionally gave the victim higher doses of medications. It also says that during the abdominal procedures, the victim, quote, became restless. Her feet began twitching.

The symptoms worsened during the liposuction of her arms. Although she already had signs of lidocaine toxicity, Dr. Brown allegedly injected her even more and even more of a concentrated lidocaine solution to her face. Her vision then started to blur, and she told Dr. Brown that he saw, quote, before she then became unresponsive and he started having a seizure.

Several staffers asked if they should call 911 apparently, but Dr. Brown ordered them to wait, said that he would address all of these issues himself. As her vitals crashed, the surgeon told his staff to then find an oxygen tank and also a stethoscope. However, they said that they couldn't locate the supplies.

He then finally told the staff to call 911, and she was rushed to the Sacred Heart Emergency Care Department in Pensacola, Florida, where she was placed on life support before she passed a week later. Now apparently, after all of this happened, Dr. Brown, the husband, posted on Facebook, and we've seen this quite a few times where people run to social media, and I don't

I don't know why you would do that. Again, everybody grieves differently. Everybody deals with trauma differently. But to run to Facebook feels to me almost as though you're trying to make a public statement before you're being publicly questioned. And I could be wrong, but listen to what he wrote on Facebook. He said...

We need prayers for a miracle. Hillary had a cardiac arrest on Tuesday afternoon. We called 911 and started CPR. Her heart came back, but her brain is not doing well. She's been in a coma ever since she went unconscious on Tuesday. Hillary Ellington Brown, you are my soulmate, my world, my everything. Please come back, please. Have a question or need how-to advice? Just ask Meta AI.

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Again, to me, that feels more like a statement that you're trying to get out in the public before the public is demanding a statement, but that could just be me. I don't know, guys, that's just my opinion. And Hillary's family has also spoken out publicly and they're actually blaming him for her death.

Her dad told one of the local newspapers, Ben Brown took the mother from my grandchildren, my only daughter and our brightest star. Hillary gave the ultimate sacrifice so that Ben Brown cannot hurt anybody else. Maybe in prison, he will get the attention that he deserves.

the more you look at it the details in this incident report that we've got our hands on you know what they're just uh flat out disturbing in the end as you mentioned a mother of three small children dad her husband a florida plastic surgeon charged in connection with her death he charged with second degree felony homicide and manslaughter by culpable negligence for his wife's death last november you see him in handcuffs benjamin was performing several cosmetic procedures on his wife hillary when she went into cardiac arrest but according to the incident report like you noted nick

Benjamin waited roughly 15 or 20 minutes before telling his assistant to call 911. His wife rushed to an area hospital, eventually being placed on life support before dying a week later. You know, officials describing Benjamin's actions that day as careless and haphazard. He was mixing stuff in a bowl as opposed to putting it in an IV. Just several things that jump out at you that's really strange.

So according to a report from Florida's Board of Medicine, the wife ahead of these procedures prepared her own anesthesia, took a handful of pills, including a sedative, painkiller, antibiotic. She also set up her own IV bag. So just very, very strange, like you heard from the sheriff there. Yeah, and all this happening while her husband, who was a licensed plastic surgeon, is standing right there. Things took a turn after the first cosmetic procedure. A report from the Board of Medicine says, you know what?

HILLARY'S FEET, AND THIS IS WHERE IT STARTS TO GET DISTURBING. HER FEET STARTED TWITCHING. HER VISION BEGAN GETTING BLURRY, AND SHE TOLD HER HUSBAND AT ONE POINT THAT SHE STARTED SEEING ORANGE.

Again, according to the same report after that, Benjamin injected more lidocaine into Hillary's face. That's when the Department of Health says she became unresponsive, had a seizure before going into cardiac arrest. And according to the arrest warrant, Benjamin was asked several times to call 911 by his medical assistants. But he said, again, this is according to the incident report, he wanted to try and do it himself.

All of those details come to light after months, nearly seven months of multiple agencies investigating Benjamin. You saw him in handcuffs. He turned himself in on Monday, but he's already bonded out of the Santa Rosa County Jail. He has an arraignment scheduled for next month. All of this unfolding up near the panhandle of the Pensacola area, Nick.

So I don't know, what do you guys think about that? Do you think that this was an accident on the surgery table or do you think that maybe something more nefarious was at play here? Tell me what you think. Now moving into the next case, last week I mentioned a case that has been unfolding out of Idaho and it's now actually an international manhunt.

Local and federal law enforcement officers are currently searching for three people. 21-year-old Erin Ong, 21-year-old Nadia Cole, and also Erin's two-year-old little girl, Soraya Harmon. Now, Erin and Nadia are allegedly engaged, and Soraya is Erin's daughter from a previous relationship.

According to police, Aaron, who lives in Moscow, Idaho, was seen buying camping equipment and also a map of Montana. Now, he was initially believed to have taken his daughter camping in Montana. However, all of that changed on May 29th when Nadia, his fiancee, was also reported missing by her family.

Nadia was at the airport. She was about to go on a trip to celebrate her graduation from WSU. She was going to go to Italy with her family, but then she went to the restroom. She left her luggage at the gate and then she just never returned. It was kind of like she just vanished into thin air.

She was later captured on surveillance video leaving the airport, though, and her family initially reported her missing, but then the investigators announced that they had an arrest warrant for Aaron on charges of custodial interference because he didn't return his daughter, Soraya, to her mom at a custody exchange. So then it started getting convoluted that maybe they left together willingly, that they took the daughter, that they were fleeing, and

And so now police believe that Nadia, Aaron, and Soraya are all together in Mexico, that they drove there in a black 2014 Cadillac XTS with Idaho license plates.

There haven't been any sightings or reports of them so far in Mexico, though. However, Soraya's mother and Soraya's maternal grandmother and Aaron's family have all spoken out. And I want to share a little bit about what they have said, because both of them, both sides of the family, they're painting very drastically different stories. I mean, we're doing the best we can, um,

We're not doing well. We're not sleeping much or eating much. We're doing a lot of praying, a lot of posting and trying to share. We really don't know much right now at all. Was there any indication that he was going to take off with your granddaughter? No.

Nothing that I'm aware of. It seemed like a normal custodial exchange. He was a little bit early, which was somewhat out of character when he picked her up and in a hurry. But Samara thought he was maybe late for a job or something and didn't really think anything of it. And I mean, the time without her daughter is always hard for her. And so she was obviously upset, as she always is. But there was nothing out of the ordinary.

Do you have a message for him tonight? I mean, we don't want anything bad for you, Aaron. We don't want anything bad for Nadia. We want everyone home safe. That's all we care about. If you need help, if you're stuck somewhere, if you're afraid, I mean, we'll support you even. We just need to know that she's okay and we just want her home. Alina Smith, Crime Scene Collective. What else are you learning about

where Aaron could have gone and the situation with Nadia and how we end up in this position where this child is not with her mother.

Hi, Benny. You know, it's just, it's such a bizarre case. Nadia was set to go on a three week, three week vacation with her family to Europe and three hours. So that was around 318 that she received a distressed call or something. And she kind of looked like something was wrong and she took off from the airport. But then that's about four and a half hours from Paul's

And then, but three hours later, he's picking up the baby and we're trying to figure out like how did they meet together at this point? And then there's the information they went to Montana, but we really think that was just to like make everybody start looking in Montana when they were headed either to Mexico or Canada at this point. And as of last Friday, we have information that

the car that belongs to the Ong family was spotted in Mexico. So that's kind of shifted the search, but once it goes international, we don't know where that can go with how the search, how much more intense it gets and how much more, what more hands they need on it and if that's even gonna be possible at this point. - Shawna, is there any connection between Aaron's family and Mexico? - We believe that there might be.

It is possible that they have family in Mexico. I don't know for sure. What is law enforcement, are they keeping you up to date with what's going on in this investigation? And do you have any indication that there's getting cooperation from officials down in Mexico?

We have been being updated that they're looking everywhere. They're not just looking in Mexico. Again, the car was seen crossing the border. I don't know when they didn't give me that information. But to my knowledge, we don't know exactly who was in the car. So we don't know if that might be another diversion tactic. So they're looking everywhere.

they're not giving us a ton of information. We've been pretty active on social media and I don't think that they want anything getting out that could jeopardize the case.

But on the other hand, Aaron's family released a statement that was actually in reality a 10-page PDF on a website called ongfamilystatement.com. I'm going to read this verbatim for you guys because I feel like you have to understand what they're saying in order to paint the full picture. And again, this is just their allegations. Who knows what is really true? But on this website, it says...

Aaron and Nadia are extremely responsible, resourceful, smart young adults with excellent work ethics.

Aaron is an operations manager responsible for teams across multiple business divisions with a goal to join the National Guard. And Nadia, a Washington State University graduate with a high GPA, was studying for her law degree. They both have high moral standards, a strong sense of justice, right and wrong, and both are very compassionate and loving individuals.

Soraya, our most precious granddaughter, is in very capable hands. Our family's observation on the inside is that they acted on Soraya because they thought that she was in imminent danger. Our family observed how much Nadia took to loving Soraya and caring for her like her own daughter.

On the day before Aaron was supposed to be leaving for a trip to Montana, Mrs. Ong, which is Aaron's mom, received a series of alarming text messages from Samara Harmon. This is the daughter's biological mother. These messages were about the health condition of Soraya, and she shared them with her husband, Mr. Ong. Samara's text messages suggested that Soraya had this very large swollen belly and that her intestines were about to explode.

Before Soraya left with Aaron for his trip to Montana, his dad, Mr. Ong, and Aaron called the emergency room director at Pullman Regional Hospital because they wanted to make sure that they understood Soraya's health condition. The report from the emergency room director was that the constipation Soraya was experiencing was normal, that with water, prune juice, and some other medication, it would take care of the problem.

Additionally, the director said that this was common among children even up to the age of 10 and that it was not a serious condition. So given this report, she was good to go. It was good to go for Sarai to go on this trip with her father Aaron. So according to this report, according to them, it confirmed the unstable and misleading personality of Samara, which was apparently very familiar to Aaron's family. She would always allegedly, according to them,

you know, exacerbate the medical issues. Say that there was something far more serious, far more severe going on when in reality it was just constipation. It was something minor that could be treated. So they were saying, okay, the emergency room director said this is just constipation. It's nothing serious. She's all clear to go on this trip to Montana. And this is just once again confirming that Samara, you know, is unstable, that she's exaggerating all of this.

Now, before their quote, gone missing status, both Aaron and Nadia apparently observed Soraya coming to their home and she would smell like weed, dog urine. She would smell dirty like a garbage truck. She was just altogether unkept. And they also said that Soraya would have dirty nails. She would have pen marks, rashes in her private areas.

that she would have unusual behavior such as saying, go away when her diaper was being changed, things like that. And on this website, they say there is suspicion that Soraya may have been getting molested. All of this was also observed by Aaron's younger sister, since Aaron would complain to her and also complain to Nadia.

When Samara lived with Aaron in various residences, she also apparently, according to them, kept their home like a complete pigsty. Aaron would often complain of having to pick up dirty diapers, sometimes up to two dozen at a time, all over their home just scattered.

And in this, they also put one image of the home. And I have to say, it does not look kept. It looks very dirty. Is that indicative of abuse? I don't know, but it does definitely look dirty. It's a picture of this extremely disheveled apartment with trash, other items just scattered all around on the furniture, on the floor, all over the place.

and it gets worse but before we get into all of that guys we are going to take one quick break and hear from the sponsors of today's episode and then we will come right back

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For a limited time, use my code CEREAL to get a free gift with your Journey Pack. Head to tryfum.com, that's tryfum.com, and use code CEREAL to get a free gift with your order today. Okay, so this family is putting out this statement, and also now what looks to be this photo proof of the living conditions. It does look like a pigsty. There's trash everywhere. But again, is that indicative of true abuse? We can't be the judge of that.

But the statement continues and says,

The court system in the United States is a little bit of, yes, a disaster. The system in general. I don't know that I would say always willing to hand over full custody to deadbeat moms and essentially castrate young capable men. That seems a little bit dramatic, but I get it. They're trying to, you know, put this statement out there to resonate and to hit emotional wires. But I don't know 100%.

Now, they go on to say that Samara's half-brother is apparently a pedophile, and that he spends a significant amount of time with Samara, whom they also quote, he raped when they were young. Samara has various self-admitted psychological issues, which she communicated by text multiple times to Aaron.

And here is one that she calls, quote, trauma brain. And what they're referring to in this is a text message exchange that she has with Aaron where she's basically apologizing for her behavior, saying that it is due to her past trauma. It goes on to say,

Here is another excerpt from a document provided to Aaron's attorney. And in this, it's a text message from Samara to Aaron where it says, when I get in my head, my trauma brain makes my decisions and it also affects my actions. I'm sorry I'm so fucked up and that you have to deal with it. To which he's responding, it's okay, it's fine. And then she says, please forgive me.

There's more text messages that go on to say and I'm just going to paraphrase here guys I'm not saying verbatim but where she will write him and say something along the lines of like you know you go from texting me to then being super silent it's back and forth and that back and forth really scares me it makes me think that you're texting somebody else then you're responding to me thinking that it's me.

I'm so scared. I'm terrified of the thought of you moving on and, you know, moving on to somebody else, forgetting all about me. I'm so scared that you're going to lead me on. Then you're never going to want me back. And can you just admit that you've moved on, that you want somebody else, that you don't want me? Just tell me. Kind of fishing for information and just for constant reassurance.

She also in these messages says how she can't stay with her dad because her dad is doing drugs, how she needs to be with him. She says, I'm going, I'm on medication. I'm going to therapy. I snapped. I'm fucked up. I'm sorry. Will you wait for me? I can't believe I fucked another guy. I'm so sorry. All of these things. So all in all, a very toxic relationship again.

Do those insecurities, does that toxicity mean that there is abuse happening in the mother's household? I don't know. And the filthy aspect of it? I don't know. But the statement goes on to say that Samara herself was using heavy cocaine prior to her and Aaron ending their relationship.

It goes on to say that a private investigation firm that was hired by Aaron's dad during the custody battle revealed the following. And it shows a screenshot of an exhibit that shows that there was some sort of heavy drug use, that they observed some sort of erratic behavior, that it doesn't seem like there was any proof. It seems like more of a complaint, but they put this screenshot in their statement. And I'll link the entire website for you guys in this episode just so you can read it, revert to it, draw your own conclusions.

But they say, our attorney in charge of the custody case in Idaho successfully negotiated with Samara for a 50-50 custody split. This was a private custody agreement. However, in order to achieve this, Samara forced Aaron to agree to the vaccination of Soraya.

When Samara first met Aaron, she was clearly advised about our family values. We do not vaccinate. Out of our four kids, only our oldest daughter was vaccinated. We did this because we did not know better back in the 1990s. As parents, for the safety of our other three children, we did not vaccinate them. They are now strong, healthy young adults.

When Samara was advised about how our family sees vaccines, she adamantly agreed and maintained that she believed the exact same thing. However, when the custody battle started, she used this as a tool in an attempt to gain greater custody because she knew that the state would see her favorably.

They go on to show even more screenshots about how she claims to be in a dark place, how she is unstable mentally according to them. They even share some family background. So again, I'll put the whole statement in the show notes for you, but

It is very interesting because at the end of the day, this little girl is still missing. A lot of the comments on all the statements on the mass media who's reporting it are saying, hey, this guy and his family, they're supporting him and they're enabling him to keep this daughter away from her mother. They're helping him flee to Mexico and they're using all of these false claims.

But then on the other side of the coin, people are arguing, no, you ripped this mother from her daughter when she had rights to her daughter. She's even gone out. The mom has gone out on media giving public statements, basically outcrying for her daughter's return. So I just hope that the daughter is safe. We know that when custody battles get this heated and there is such a point of contention, unfortunately, oftentimes it can end in absolute disaster, sometimes even fatality.

So my hope is that they can come to a resolution, people can be reunited, that there is no bloodshed, that everybody remains safe, and that they can figure out what is best for the family moving forward. Now with that,

let's move into Karen Reed because boy oh boy do we have a lot to talk about. So as the prosecution is beginning to wrap up its case against Karen Reed, things now seem to be getting crazier by the day, guys. I mean, it is absolutely bizarre.

So far this week, jurors were shown the last text messages that were sent between Karen and John. And on the morning before John died, Karen texted, John denied being interested in anybody else, and he responded,

Now the prosecution believes that Karen hit and killed John O'Keefe in this drunken rage and then left his body outside in the cold to die. And they further believe that these texts show that that was her motive. Which guys, if you're brand new to this case, you've got to catch up.

I swear, I have friends of mine who aren't even interested in true crime, but who are texting me every single day saying, have you heard about this case? What's going on with Karen Reed? What do you think is true? Is she guilty? Is she not? So I'm going to link the deep dive to get fully caught up in the show notes, but it is a wild one.

So anyways, we obviously know that the prosecution has been saying, oh, she killed him because, and she backed into him, she was pissed off, she was drunk, he was leaving her, all these things. And now they're saying, oh, these text messages, they prove that. Now, the prosecution also called a digital intelligence expert who talked about the infamous and very controversial Google searches that were how long to die in the cold.

These searches were made from Jennifer McCabe, who was in the house that night of the house party. Now, the defense says that they were done at 2.27 a.m., but this expert, this expert that the prosecution brought, said that they were made at 6.23 a.m., after John's body was found in the cold.

There's also been a lot of talk about the accidental reconstruction that was done for the prosecution. And just like most things in this case, there are mixed opinions on both sides. Some people think that it makes sense and proves Karen's guilt. However, on the other hand, many people believe that this witness was just completely delusional.

disseminated on cross-examination and should never have been a part of any accident reconstruction whatsoever. But I want you guys to take a listen to this clip from Peter Tragos, who also has the channel on YouTube, The Lawyer You Know. He's a great lawyer. He breaks it all down. Take a listen. This was the key witness. But let's listen to Trooper Paul's

summary of his opinion. This is the end. And he blows it right off the bat because he wants to read it out of his report, which he's not allowed to do. He tries multiple times to read it, but eventually we do get to what his opinion is. Okay.

Can we continue? What if any conclusions did you come to through what's your message? So on Saturday, January 29th, 2022 at approximately 1245. So you can look at your report, but you can't read your report. I can read my conclusions based on what they asked me to do. Yeah. So also I can't hear you. Okay. So just take your time, read your report and then answer Mr. Lally's question. And if you need to look at your report, we'll see about that again.

All right. Ask the question, Mr. Lely. Based on the totality of your investigation, what kind of conclusions did you come to with regard to how this collision occurred? So this collision occurred on Saturday, January 29, 2022, at approximately 1245 hours.

Hey, 2021 Lexus, LX570 was traveling southbound on Fairview Road, in area 34 of Fairview Road. So, you know what? I don't, Mr. Lally, break this down. Ask simple questions so that the witness can answer your questions. And Alan Jackson comes out swinging against this guy. This guy takes a sip. Again, I feel bad, but this is how it works. This is how the playing field is even.

You can't just have cops get up there in grand jury proceedings and say anything like this guy did to get charges thrown on somebody. You don't have a lawyer in those grand jury proceedings. But guess what? You get a lawyer now. And this is the difference when you have a defense lawyer versus when you don't. And the grand jury almost always says, sure, go forward on charges. So do you have any, do you hold any degrees in the scientific discipline of mathematics? I do not. Do you hold any degrees in the scientific discipline of physics? I do not. Well,

How many degrees in scientific discipline or biomechanics? No. How about in engineering? No. How about in kinematics? No. What's the highest degree that you do hold, sir? I have an associate's degree. In what? Administration of Justice. You mentioned kinematics on Friday. Do you hold any certificates?

in the specific area of kinematics? Yes, it's covered in the basic crash investigation classes. Okay, so you took a class, correct? Multiple classes. It's the idea of what kinematics is, right? Correct. Yes. Define kinematics. It deals with the aspect of motion. It's a subfield of what? Broader field?

It's clear he's trying to ask him questions he doesn't know the answer to. It's very clear. That's exactly what he's trying to do. He's not testing him. He's trying to ask questions to make this guy say, I don't know. And unfortunately, he does say, I don't know, multiple times. Yeah, Amy Z, it was not a good watch. It was not a good watch. It was tough. Kinematics is a subfield, but what broader discipline of science? I'm not sure. Physics, correct? Yeah.

Yes. It describes how points and objects, systems of objects, how they move and how the rate they move and the rate of their velocity, correct? It deals with the motions. What's that called? So at this point, I think the expert would say yes to just about anything Jackson said. Velocity. What's another word for that? The rate of velocity? Right.

I mean, it deals with motion, it deals with forward, and also it deals with speed. It deals with travel and speed. If something's moving, it also has a speed to it. Right. The word you're looking for is acceleration, correct? Sure. What role does acceleration play in the field of kinematics? What role does acceleration play in kinematics? Correct. It talks about, like you just said, it talks about the speed and talks about motion. Is kinematics also known as the geometry of motion?

Is that correct? I have not heard that. Never heard that. What's the difference between constrained and unconstrained motion? Unconstrained motion? That's what I asked. Constrained motion. I can't recollect at the moment. Constrained motion is motion on a predetermined path, isn't it?

Yes. Unconstrained motion is what? When doing that predetermined path. Free movement, right? Correct. Do you remember that from your class? Don't go that, that, that restrained and unconstrained. Constrained, unconstrained, not restrained. Sorry, unconstrained. Yes. So in court on Tuesday, the jury was not present, but the defense had three interviews with the witnesses that they plan to call to the stand.

One of those defense witnesses is Dr. Marie Russell, a retired emergency physician and forensic pathologist. She plans to testify that the injuries found on John were from a dog attack.

She said, quote, the injuries and puncture holes in Mr. O'Keefe's shirt appeared consistent with an attack by a large dog. Having seen hundreds and hundreds of car accident victims, people hit by cars, I ruled that out very quickly. Can you be more specific in terms of the type of animal or are you relegated to simply an animal attack?

Well, they are consistent with a large dog attack. There's a combination of both what I consider bite wounds and scratch wounds on the arm. Now, the judge hasn't ruled if Dr. Russell can testify yet, but another witness interviewed on Tuesday was a crash expert.

I am the director of accident reconstruction at a company known as ARCA, A-R-C-C-A. And tell us a little bit about ARCA. If you could explain to the court what ARCA is and what its primary mission is. So ARCA is a forensic consulting engineering company. We have a variety of disciplines that include biomechanics,

failure analysis, human factors, premise liability, crashworthiness, and accident reconstruction. Then after court, Karen actually spoke to reporters about if she herself wants to testify or not. Take a listen.

There is no case against me. After eight weeks. After eight weeks, it's smoke and mirrors and it's going through my private life and trying to contrive a motive that was never there. Have you thought about what it would be like to be on the witness stand yourself? Yeah, I have. I'd like to fill in some holes and correct some lies, but it's up to the attorneys and they'll make the call probably at the 11th hour and I'm there or not there. You're lobbying no for your chance to testify? No.

I'm an outspoken person, and I've never not been able to speak up for myself and my defense, except when it matters the most. I've got to rely on them and their expertise, and I'll defer to the attorneys. So according to Karen, the defense could start as early as Friday, and it will definitely be interesting to see what they put up. So I'm going to take a wild guess that she is not going to be testifying because I don't think it's going to be a good look for her, but I don't know. Crazier things have happened, so we'll see what happens.

I'm still curious. I always feel like it's a split decision. Do you think she's guilty? Do you think she's being set up? Is she innocent? Is she being framed? What do you think the truth is here? I feel like literally people's opinions change every single week.

So tell me what you think because I am very, very curious. Other than that, guys, I will definitely keep you updated on not only all things Karen Reid, but all things just going on in the true crime metaverse. There is definitely no shortage. We also know that there has been an arrest made in the Rachel Morin case. A deep dive on that arrest and all of his backstory is coming very soon.

So stay tuned for that. It is definitely coming. There also was an update this week with Riley Strain that his cause of death was ruled drowning plus intoxication and an insane amount of alcohol. So,

unfortunately I'm glad his family finally has the answers but there definitely isn't any sort of larger conspiracy at you know that we know of in that regard it seems pretty cut and dry but I will keep you updated on all cases as we go and we're trying to do something a little bit different for this month because it is the anniversary month of YouTube it's marking four years on YouTube we're

We're trying to put out a new case every day, Monday through Friday that is. So 20 cases. What is that? Yeah, that's 20 cases. Wow, 20 cases, brand new cases and updates to cases for the month. So if you're feeling like you need your true crime fix, you can either get it here, of course, on the ad-free bonus episodes every single Friday or check it out over there. We're putting out something every single day. So check it out. It's 10 to Life on YouTube. I will also link that in the show notes.

Thank you guys so much for tuning in to another episode of Serialistly with me, Annie Elise. I'll be back with you Friday for the ad-free bonus episode and Monday for an all-new deep dive on a case. Thanks again for tuning in, guys. And until the next one, please stay safe and be nice. Don't kill people. Bye.