15: Extreme Wealth, Sex Parties, Drugs, & Murder: The Dark Side of Silicon Valley
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Today's episode of Serialistly is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Now, most of you listening right now are probably multitasking. Yes, I know you are. While you're listening to me talk, you're probably also driving, cleaning, exercising, or maybe even grocery shopping. But if you are not in some kind of moving vehicle, there is something else you can be doing right now, getting an auto quote from Progressive Insurance.

It's easy and you could save money by doing it right from your phone. Drivers who save by switching to Progressive save nearly $750 on average. And auto customers qualify for an average of seven discounts. Discounts for having multiple vehicles on your policy, being a homeowner, and more. So just like your favorite podcast, Progressive will be with you 24-7, 365 days a year, so you're protected no matter what.

Multitask right now. Quote your car insurance at Progressive.com to join the over 28 million drivers who trust Progressive. Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and Affiliates. National average 12-month savings of $744 by new customers surveyed who saved with Progressive between June 2022 and May 2023. Potential savings will vary. Discounts not available in all states and situations.

Buckle up and crank up that volume. This is Serialist League with Annie Elise. Hello and happy Monday, true crime besties. It is me, Annie Elise, your true crime BFF. Guys, I hope you all had a good weekend and I hope you are getting ready to just like listen to this case because I'm

I hope you're mentally prepared. As you guys know, I get a ton of different cases submitted to me, whether it's through DMs, comments, emails on my website, whatever it is. And although all of the cases are, of course, tragic, some of them stand out more than a good weekend. And I hope you are getting ready to just like listen to this case because...

I hope you're mentally prepared. As you guys know, I get a ton of different cases submitted to me, whether it's through DMs, comments, emails on my website, whatever it is. And although all of the cases are, of course, tragic, some of them stand out more than others just because of how shocking and depraved they really are. And there was one case that came across my desk that I thought I had known about, had heard about,

but the details that i was reading i was floored my jaw kind of hit the floor and i was like wait wait wait wait wait there is no way that all of this is involved in this case because it's an insane amount of wealth sex parties swingers drugs murder

So much below the surface to where I knew I had to jump on here and talk with you guys about this case. My besties. I had to come on here with you guys because I just had to share it with you. It is so wild and unlike any case that I have heard in a very long time.

time. So I hope you're mentally prepared, guys, because I know we're starting off your week with a wild one, but you know, that's what it is we do here. So before we jump in, just quickly do me a favor, look in the top corner of your podcast app, and if you're not following the podcast already, just click

that little check mark really quick so that you're following along so that you don't miss any future episodes. And at the end of this episode, please take just a quick second before you close out your app and give it a rating and write a quick review. It totally helps the algorithm of the podcast. It helps push it out to more people. So even if you want to just pause and do that right now, I won't be mad at you. I'd appreciate it. Do your thing, besties. Thank you so much for that.

Okay, so let's jump right into this. Like I said, this case involves just an insane abundance of wealth. It involves drugs, sex, I mean, the saying goes, what, drugs, sex, rock and roll, kind of all of that, minus the rock and roll. But we could replace that with tech. Techs, drugs, sex, you name it.

So in the early morning hours of April 4th, 2023, the vibrant tech hub of San Francisco, California was plunged into a real life nightmare that would rattle the industry's elite. Bob Lee, the mastermind behind Cash App, laid lifeless on the open streets in a very unsuspecting neighborhood.

Now, for those of you who aren't familiar with Cash App, Cash App first released in 2013, and it's a mobile payment service available in the United States and the UK. The service on the app allows users to transfer money to one another back and forth.

simply using their mobile phone the app on their mobile phone and just with the click of a button very similar to venmo cash app is a wildly successful company and in september of 2021 the service reported 70 million annual users and 1.8 billion in gross profit

And Bob Lee was the software engineer who helped create Cash App with an estimated net worth of $10 million. And now he was found lifeless, stabbed on the streets. But who would want this tech mastermind dead? And who would just leave him on the side of the street bleeding out from these stab wounds? Well, as the city continued to sleep,

The untold story was unfolding under the early morning moonlight. It was just the chilling beginning of a plot that would soon twist and turn with details that nobody could possibly foreshadow. A story that would soon reveal a web of sex, drugs, and a shocking arrest and allegation.

The mystery surrounding Bob's life and death was far from over, turning this into a story straight from the darkest of crime novels. San Francisco is the heart of the tech industry in America. It's home to not only huge corporations such as Google, Facebook, Apple, and Twitter, but it is also only 40 miles north of Silicon Valley, where we know tech is like booming.

Elite local universities, venture capitalists, and leading employers in Silicon Valley like Apple, Intel, Salesforce, and Tesla all have employees that live in San Francisco, which makes that just the perfect tech playground for anyone in the industry wanting to join a trendy new tech startup or just live amongst like-minded individuals.

Many of these young, savvy professionals have boatloads of money and are eager to indulge in the city's dynamic nightlife, in their trendy restaurant culture, buy the shiny new tech toy that is on the market that everybody wants, or use that money to invest in the next biggest idea or company.

The perfect combination of work and play, right? Seems like it would be the perfect setup for these people, especially if you are lucky enough to live in one of the top neighborhoods or luxury high rises. So all of this makes perfect sense as to why Bob Lee, this software engineer and innovative entrepreneur with an impressive resume, chose to live in San Francisco. Bob Lee had his first major career move when he started working at Google back in 2004.

where he helped develop the software for Android phones. He worked at Google until 2010, when he was recruited to then work for another company that you may have heard of called Square.

Square is a financial services platform and it's aimed at small and medium-sized businesses, allowing them to accept credit card payments and use phones or tablets as a payment register for a point-of-sale system. So eventually he became the chief technology officer and helped develop the Square app, which is right when he pulled the trigger and made that move to San Francisco. Then in 2013, he helped Square build Cash App.

all by the time that he was just 33 years old. I mean, talk about smart, successful, just extremely intelligent and driven. In 2014, he made the decision to leave Square, and he opted to use his money to invest in tech startups that he felt like would revolutionize the industry.

Now get this, Bob actually helped the World Health Organization with their app during 2020. However, most recently, he worked for a company called MobileCoin, which is a cryptocurrency payment company, and he worked for them as the chief product officer. Over the years, while he was making his steady climb up the corporate ladder, Bob met and married a woman named Krista Lee. The two of them married and had two daughters together named Dagny and Scout.

It's unclear the exact details and why, but ultimately the couple ended up divorcing in 2019. After the divorce, the two children and his ex-wife Krista stayed in the Bay Area, but Bob decided to move to a $1.8 million apartment in Miami, another up-and-coming tech hotspot and also where his father lived.

The cryptocurrency company Mobilecoin that he worked for was still headquartered in San Francisco, so he really spent a lot of time traveling back and forth between Miami and San Francisco, living this bi-coastal lifestyle. Absolutely not a bad lifestyle when you are a multi-millionaire and tech giant.

So with all of this travel back and forth, it would come as no surprise that in April of this year, Bob was right back in San Francisco for a mobile coin executive conference. But that's where Bob's story gets very complicated.

In the early hours of April 4th, 2023, Bob was discovered by San Francisco law enforcement on a sidewalk in front of a residential building suffering from multiple stab wounds. He was immediately taken to a hospital for emergency surgery. The incident occurred in a neighborhood close to the waterfront, near tech companies, high-rise condos, but not much else was around.

So the fact that not much else went on in this area during the late night and early morning hours made the fact that he was found at almost 3 a.m. very, very odd. The news of Bob's sudden and tragic demise was a huge, devastating blow to his family and friends.

They struggled to understand how someone so intelligent, so compassionate and distinguished in his field could fall victim to such a horrific crime where his lifeless body was just left

on the sidewalk like garbage. He was a man without enemies, and this just was not adding up at all. Bob's dad, who was living with him at the time in Miami, was floored by the news, saying that Bob would give you the shirt off of his back, he would never look down on anyone, and adhered to a strict no-judgment philosophy. He said that Bob worked harder than anyone and was the smartest person that he had ever known. So who would have done this to Bob?

Was this just a random attack from someone he didn't know? Did the police find the murder weapon? Was it just a psycho out on the loose? Sure, it's possible. San Francisco is a very populated, busy city. There is also a huge uptick in the homeless presence. However, Bob was found with his wallet and his phone still on him. So...

So was this an attempted robbery? Surely not. But San Francisco police kept their lips sealed and provided very little information, saying that the investigation was still early. Two days later, the police said in a press conference that it was still too soon to know whether or not the stabbing was a random attack. A few days later, Bob's autopsy came back, and it revealed that Bob suffered knife wounds that pierced his heart and his lung.

His toxicology report also came back, and Bob had cocaine, ketamine, and alcohol all in his system at the time of the stabbing. But the substances were not indicated as a factor in his death.

The medical examiners said that the alcohol in his system was equivalent to the amount of a single beer, and the ketamine that was in his system could have been given as anesthesia when he was brought into the hospital to treat those stab wounds. San Francisco District Attorney Brooke Jenkins said that while she hadn't reviewed the autopsy report yet, no one deserves to be killed, whether they've done drugs or not.

Which, yeah, I think we can all completely agree on that. Your personal hobbies or recreational use of drugs shouldn't be indicative of if you should live or die. Certainly not.

Later on, it was revealed that Bob was actually captured on nearby security cameras around 2:30 a.m. that morning. He was seen walking or staggering down the street in the Rickon Hill neighborhood, pleading for assistance. He can be seen on the footage approaching several cars while clutching his stab wounds on his body in one hand and his cell phone in another.

He was seen lifting his shirt to show the driver of a parked Toyota Camry the extent of his injuries, but the car must have been spooked and nervous because they immediately sped off. Bob even called the police four minutes after first appearing on surveillance footage. In the 911 recording, Bob yelled, "I've been stabbed," and that's when police rushed over to the area and found him lying on the street.

Today's episode of Serialistly is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Now, most of you listening right now are probably multitasking. Yes, I know you are. While you're listening to me talk, you're probably also driving, cleaning, exercising, or maybe even grocery shopping. But if you are not in some kind of moving vehicle, there is something else you can be doing right now, getting an auto quote from Progressive Insurance.

It's easy and you could save money by doing it right from your phone. Drivers who save by switching to Progressive save nearly $750 on average. And auto customers qualify for an average of seven discounts. Discounts for having multiple vehicles on your policy, being a homeowner, and more. So just like your favorite podcast, Progressive will be with you 24-7, 365 days a year, so you're protected no matter what.

Multitask right now. Quote your car insurance at Progressive.com to join the over 28 million drivers who trust Progressive. Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and Affiliates. National average 12-month savings of $744 by new customers surveyed who saved with Progressive between June 2022 and May 2023. Potential savings will vary. Discounts not available in all states and situations. An official message from Medicare.

Go to ssa.gov slash extra help.

paid for by the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services. The brutal murder of a major tech executive without an arrest or any leads known to the public drew attention to San Francisco in a big way, and probably not the kind of attention that police or city officials wanted.

This case made national headlines. And in case you have been living under a rock or you haven't heard by now, San Francisco has been getting straight up dragged for their major homelessness problem and rampant drug use throughout the city for years now. So it kind of created this environment for a perfect storm of outrage and built up anger and frustration in the community. And it was just totally unleashed.

Bob's friends and colleagues in the tech world quickly linked his death to the city's lawlessness and felt like this looked like an attempted robbery gone wrong. Elon Musk, the founder of Tesla, even tweeted at the district attorney asking what she was going to do to lock up repeated violent offenders.

She responded by saying that it was in fact her top priority. Conspiracy theories and insults on the San Francisco Police Department's response to crimes in general, or what seemed to be a non-response, quickly became a very contentious topic.

Maybe this was some drifter or psycho, maybe mistaken identity. The public as well as family and friends close to Bob just didn't know what to think at this point. And it didn't help that the same day that Bob was murdered, a former fire commissioner for San Francisco was randomly attacked as well. And people were now starting to get scared. Was the city just in random chaos and uproar? What was happening and what people were hearing was unsettling to say the least.

But was this random? Or was Bob purposefully targeted? On the following Monday after Bob's murder, San Francisco's mayor spoke out and urged the public not to rush to conclusions about Bob's death and on the brutal attack of the former San Francisco fire commissioner. And the mayor said, "...when the facts of many of these cases come out, many people are going to be surprised."

And let me just tell you, she was not bluffing. Nine days after the stabbing death of Cash App founder Bob Lee in San Francisco. Mr. Lee's killer has been identified, arrested, and now will be brought to justice. The suspect, 38-year-old Nima Momeni, was booked on a murder charge early Thursday. We are confident in the evidence that

we have found so far. Mr. Momeni is our focus and the single suspect in this case. Momeni's online profiles identify him as an IT consultant and police say Lee's murder was not a random act. We followed the evidence and there is a lot of evidence. The evidence shows that they knew each other. The final moments of Robert Lee's life were captured by surveillance video posted by the Daily Mail before the police had access to it according to the police chief.

and show the 43-year-old tech executive in the early morning hours of April 4th suffering from stab injuries and looking for assistance. There's a male screaming help saying someone stabbed me and advised he's bleeding out. This is not about San Francisco. The murders sparked renewed outrage over crime in San Francisco, frustrating local officials. This is about human nature, like many homicides are and many murders are.

It could have happened anywhere. The district attorney expressed frustration that the city was unfairly maligned in this case, calling out a tweet by Elon Musk. Reckless and irresponsible statements like those contained in Mr. Musk's tweet that assumed incorrect circumstances about Mr. Lee's death served to mislead the world in their perceptions of San Francisco

and also negatively impact the pursuit of justice for victims of crime. The mayor assured constituents that combating crime is a top priority. That is our goal to make San Francisco a better, more safer city for each and every one of us. But the police chief said their first priority is finding justice for victims and their families. We have to keep the bigger picture in mind that this is a case with a man that lost his life, who has people who love him, that care about him,

that deserve justice. - Now, if you're listening to the podcast version of this, you weren't able to see the expressions on the DA's face during this, but she was pissed.

So who the hell is Nima Momini? Nima's LinkedIn profile lists him as the owner of Expand IT, a technology and cybersecurity firm. Nima was arrested at his home around 5 a.m. that morning. Multiple search warrants were executed when he was arrested, and neighbors that lived in that same building as Nima were absolutely stunned.

saying he's a very pleasant gentleman, it's unimaginable that he would be accused of a murder or any sort of stabbing incident. He's an absolute professional and just a very friendly neighbor.

Which, I mean, yes, I get it. Neighbors always say that. Let's be real. Very rarely do we hear a neighbor actually say, "Yeah, I knew they were shady. I knew they were up to something no good." More times than not, it's always unsuspecting. But nevertheless, that would indeed be shocking to hear as a neighbor. Absolutely. According to the arrest warrant, when police arrived to Bob stabbed and laying in the street, they canvassed the crime scene immediately.

and they saw blood spatter on the sidewalks on both sides of the street that he was found on. They also found a kitchen knife in a nearby parking lot that was approximately four inches in length, and this knife had blood on it.

Later on, investigators interviewed a witness. Now, in the documents, this person is referred to as Witness 1, but we are just going to call him Bob's friend in this story. But Witness 1, Bob's friend, described themselves as close friends with Bob and a friend of his for at least the last 10 years.

Bob's friend was with Bob on the evening before he was found murdered at 2:30 a.m. Bob had invited his friend over to an apartment where he and a female friend of his were drinking. Bob's friend said that he knew this female and had met her three or four years prior and said that she was married, but that her relationship may have been in jeopardy. He also said that he didn't know whether or not Bob and this female friend had any sort of intimate relationship or anything like that.

So a little while after the three of them were just hanging out, Bob told his friend, "Hey, let's go back to my hotel room," or something to that effect. And they also invited the female to go with them, but she decided not to come.

So Bob and his friend arrived back at Bob's hotel, and shortly after, he noticed that Bob was on the phone, talking with this female friend's brother, who happens to be Nima Momeni. The conversation they were having was about Nima picking up his younger sister from the apartment where Bob, his friend, and the female had all been hanging out earlier. The friend said that Nima was questioning Bob about whether his younger sister was doing drugs or anything inappropriate,

And Bob was reassuring Nima that nothing inappropriate had happened. After that, Bob and his friend went back to Bob's apartment. Now, I'm not sure why he also was staying in a hotel and had a hotel room if he had an apartment, unless it's because the hotel room was closer to where the conference was being held and taking place.

But in any event, they went there and hung out for a while, and then the friend left Bob's apartment around 1230 a.m. The next day, Bob's friend called that female to ask if Bob came over to her apartment after he left Bob's apartment at 1230 a.m. The female said that yes, Bob came over to her apartment for just a second, that is a quote, a second, but that she fell asleep and didn't know when he left. Hmm. Okay.

Surveillance video from the female's apartment showed that Nima came to a sister's place around 8:30 p.m. that evening. Then, at 12:39 a.m., Bob arrives, which, if you're doing the math there, was just nine minutes after Bob's friend had left his apartment. The friend and Bob were hanging out at Bob's apartment. The friend leaves at 12:30 a.m. Then Bob arrives to the female friend's apartment at 12:39 a.m., nine minutes later.

Today's episode of Serialistly is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Now, most of you listening right now are probably multitasking. Yes, I know you are. While you're listening to me talk, you're probably also driving, cleaning, exercising, or maybe even grocery shopping. But if you are not in some kind of moving vehicle, there is something else you can be doing right now, getting an auto quote from Progressive Insurance.

It's easy and you could save money by doing it right from your phone. Drivers who save by switching to Progressive save nearly $750 on average. And auto customers qualify for an average of seven discounts. Discounts for having multiple vehicles on your policy, being a homeowner, and more. So just like your favorite podcast, Progressive will be with you 24-7, 365 days a year, so you're protected no matter what.

Multitask right now. Quote your car insurance at Progressive.com to join the over 28 million drivers who trust Progressive. Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and Affiliates. National average 12-month savings of $744 by new customers surveyed who saved with Progressive between June 2022 and May 2023. Potential savings will vary. Discounts not available in all states and situations.

An official message from Medicare. A new law is helping me save more money on prescription drug costs. You may be able to save too. With Medicare's Extra Help program, my premium is zero and my out-of-pocket costs are low. Who should apply? Single people making less than $23,000 a year or married couples who make less than $31,000 a year. Even if you don't think you qualify, it pays to find out. Go to ssa.gov slash extrahelp.

paid for by the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services. Then, at just before 2:30 a.m., Bob and Nima were seen on camera on the elevator going down to the lobby and getting in Nima's white BMW. More surveillance footage was pulled and tracked Nima driving all the way down to the 400 block of Main Street, where Bob was found with those stab wounds lying on the street.

Both Bob and Nima were seen standing on the sidewalk for around five minutes, and then Nima appears to suddenly move toward Bob and then walks away. Bob is then seen on another camera, walking away visibly injured. Nima was seen walking in the other direction, where he stopped along a fence line for just a brief moment, which is right where the knife was later recovered. Then Nima and his white BMW sped off.

In the arrest warrant, it also says that some of the surveillance is blurry, so each person was mainly referred to by the clothing that they were wearing. Now, in addition to this surveillance footage that was found that starts to piece together the timeline of what took place in those early morning hours, Bob's phone had text messages on it.

text messages that were received from Nima's sister. And in one of these messages, it said, "'Just wanted to make sure you're doing okay "'cause I know Nima came way down hard on you "'and thank you for being such a classy man "'handling it with class. "'Love you, selfish pricks.'"

which I'm not really sure what the selfish pricks part is about, but that is exactly what the text message said and what the arrest warrant said. So based on this text message and the information that Nemo was acting erratic and arguing with Bob earlier, coupled with Bob's three stab wounds, one near his hip and two near his heart, the prosecution felt like this was in fact premeditated murder.

especially since Nima drove Bob to a dark, conspicuous location in the opposite direction of his hotel.

and he had been carrying that kitchen knife on him. So because of all of this, the prosecution did not want Nima to be granted bail. So you'd think that this was a slam dunk case, right? You've got surveillance footage, you've got text messages, you've got friends' eyewitness testimonies about the activities that took place that night. Open and shut case, right? Wrong.

because this was only the beginning of what was about to be revealed in this twisted and very dangerous story. Shortly after Nima was arrested, it was revealed that Nima had hired a defense attorney several days before he was arrested. But his attorney, Paula Canney, declined to confirm when she was actually hired to represent Nima.

saying that it would open a can of worms. However, most criminal defense attorneys say that this can be pretty common. She asked the judge to release Nima from custody, saying that he did not pose a flight risk or a danger to others, but that was denied.

Now, remember how the autopsy report showed cocaine and ketamine in Bob's system, while Paula made some comments to the media at one of these postponed or rescheduled hearing court appearances regarding those very details.

She said, and I quote, "There's a lot of drugs in Bob Lee's system. Bob Lee's system is like the Walgreens of recreational drugs. People on drugs make bad decisions." She went on to suggest that Bob might have been saved by medical professionals had he not had drugs in his system in his body.

which let me just say, or maybe he could have been saved by medical professionals if he hadn't been stabbed twice in the chest near his heart where one stab wound punctured his lung. Maybe then he would have been saved and wouldn't have died, Paula. Like, let's not shame the dead guy here, shall we not? Shall we not? He was stabbed, so the blood loss and being stabbed in the lung and near his heart was

was what was the cause of death. Not because he had alcohol in his system that equated to a single beer and maybe because he did a couple lines of blow that evening. No, it was the stabbing that was the cause of death. And even the medical examiner said that the substances that were in his system were not

at all involved in the cause of his death. So let's not shame the dead guy, Paula. Okay? Let's have a little bit more tact and class than that. Now also, listen. I want to be clear that I totally believe in the presumption of innocence until you are proven guilty. Don't get me wrong. But in a case like this, it does seem pretty clear-cut. If you are literally on video stabbing someone who was later found stabbed right where you left him,

Call me crazy, but that feels like a slam dunk guilty case to me. Maybe there's an element of self-defense, sure, but as far as saying that this person wasn't responsible for the stabbing or that the stabbing wasn't the cause of the death, uh, no. It seems pretty clear-cut to me.

But let's also just play devil's advocate here for a moment, and let's say that maybe there is something else involved that we don't know about. Let's give Nima the benefit of the doubt that maybe somebody else was in his car, and that it really wasn't him. I don't know, let's just go with that. But Nima's attorney Paula has made quite the media tour speaking on Nima's behalf.

Primetime exclusive. The suspect in the stabbing death of Cash App executive Bob Lee is named Nima Momeni, and he will be arraigned in court next week. Remember, arraigned means that's when you're presented with the charges against you and you get to enter a plea. His defense attorney is Paula Canney. She says the evidence against her client for murder is weak, and she joins us now in her first primetime interview. Counselor, thank you very much for taking the opportunity.

Thank you for having me. So let's start at the beginning, which is authorities say they have video evidence and circumstantial evidence pointing to the accused as the man who lunges toward Bob Lee with a knife and then retreating. They say he did it.

Well, of course they say he did it. That's what, you know, prosecutors and police officers do. The video that I've seen, it's it's you can't tell who's in a video.

You know, the world is as they see it. That's what they see it. But the video that that I've seen doesn't depict what they're saying. Nobody would draw that as a reasonable conclusion from from the video that I saw. Does the client say to you, not to attack the privilege, but as a as a statement of his own credibility? Does he say, counselor, that's not me? I didn't do it.

Well, this is what I'm going to say, counselor. As you know, that was a great question, but I'm not going to reveal on television my communications with my client. I'm going to say this, that based on the information I have, I don't think he is guilty of the crime of murder. So that's what I'll say based on what I know. But I'm a lawyer.

You are, and you are a respected one, and we appreciate having you here. The word is that you're good at the job. I do want to take issue with one thing. Maybe I got it wrong on my side. Sure. You're saying, I don't believe the proof is there. I don't think they can make the case. He's not guilty. I understand that. The word I was given was innocent, which means something different, which is he literally didn't do this. It's not about the case. I can prove it with someone else if I have to. Is that what you're saying, or you're saying they don't have the case?

No, I would never use the word innocent because why do I make my job is already hard enough. My job is a hard job. But to prove somebody innocent isn't my job. I just have to defend a person well enough to show that the prosecution can't prove that he's guilty. So, yes, maybe it's a distinction without a difference to some people. But to me, it's huge. Yeah, me too. I don't have to

prove he's innocent. I just have to have enough that he's not guilty. And that's what I'm saying. I'm saying there isn't enough evidence based on what I've seen to prove that beyond a reasonable doubt that he's guilty of murder. There's no malice. There's no premeditation. There's no intent. I know what they're saying. But as I said, there's a huge backstory to this that

impacts, you know, what they're saying happened that day and events thereafter. So as any good, you know, lawyer would say, more will be revealed later and more will be revealed later. Well, let's let's play to what the story is, which is Bob Lee had some kind of relationship that your client didn't like or approve of with his sister.

who's married and he was seen with Bob Lee, not happy with Bob Lee, confronting Bob Lee. Bob Lee was then seen with the sister, maybe at the place of a guy who's connected to selling drugs, maybe then in a party, partying, and your client didn't like it and let it be known.

Well, I mean, the evidence that I have in terms of the interactions isn't quite of that ilk, though part of it is right. I mean, who would like to see their sister, who they're super protective of, you know, potentially be drugged? Who would have to, who would like that? Nobody. Nobody.

Nobody would like that of their sister. So my client's reaction to finding out that his sister had suffered a trauma isn't unique to him. Any good brother would be upset about it. Now let's get to where this story takes a turn from weird to just straight up bizarre.

Today's episode of Serialistly is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Now, most of you listening right now are probably multitasking. Yes, I know you are. While you're listening to me talk, you're probably also driving, cleaning, exercising, or maybe even grocery shopping. But if you are not in some kind of moving vehicle, there is something else you can be doing right now, getting an auto quote from Progressive Insurance.

It's easy and you could save money by doing it right from your phone. Drivers who save by switching to Progressive save nearly $750 on average. And auto customers qualify for an average of seven discounts. Discounts for having multiple vehicles on your policy, being a homeowner, and more. So just like your favorite podcast, Progressive will be with you 24-7, 365 days a year, so you're protected no matter what.

Multitask right now. Quote your car insurance at Progressive.com to join the over 28 million drivers who trust Progressive. Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and Affiliates. National average 12-month savings of $744 by new customers surveyed who saved with Progressive between June 2022 and May 2023. Potential savings will vary. Discounts not available in all states and situations. An official message from Medicare.

A new law is helping me save more money on prescription drug costs. Maybe you can save too. With Medicare's Extra Help program, my premium is zero and my out-of-pocket costs are low. Who should apply? Single people making less than $23,000 a year or married couples who make less than $31,000 a year. Even if you don't think you qualify, it pays to find out. Go to ssa.gov slash extra help. Paid for by the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services.

The Wall Street Journal reported that Bob was part of an underground party scene filled with recreational drugs and casual sex, and that this party scene was called the lifestyle, and that he was involved in this for several years prior to his death.

In the Wall Street Journal's report, based on dialogues with numerous friends and associates who shared details about Bob's conduct in the preceding days and weeks, they proposed an interesting theory on Bob's murder and provided additional insights into potential connections between Bob and Nima.

We know from the charging documents about Bob's day leading up to when he was killed, and that the prosecution feels that this was intentional and premeditated. But now, the Wall Street Journal is saying that some of Bob's friends suggest that he was romantically involved with Nima's sister, Khazar, that female friend who he was drinking with the night before he was killed.

That report further revealed that Bob had an intimate relationship with at least one other woman who Nima had dated as well.

and deepening the connection between the two of them beyond what the prosecutors had disclosed bob's ex-wife krista told the wall street journal that despite their separation they remained close and she was really confused as to why he was being portrayed as a party boy by others saying that she thought that maybe he had been microdosing ketamine for depression treatment at most

But that's not what his friends had said. They said that while Bob was intellectually gifted and committed to his profession, he loved partying, and that he used recreational drugs at raves all around the world.

So I started looking more into this lifestyle and here's what I found on Reddit. So it's on Reddit, you know, it's like a thousand percent true, which if you can see me, you see, I'm rolling my eyes. I'm kidding. Of course that is not the case. So take this information that I share with a grain of salt, but here's what I found on that lifestyle.

One person says, "The lifestyle is referred to anywhere you go as a sort of cruisy way of seeing if a couple is basically open. It's been partially prominent in the Pacific Northwest for a long time and sort of caught fire a bit in the tech community here I want to say about eight years ago.

It gets way more complex as you learn about the different configurations of couples' arrangements. It tends to be very upfront and communicative about the rules of engagement, which is great when it comes to relationships. It's the kind of thing I wish you saw more of in monogamous relationships that tend to be more "shoot your shot and hope you didn't cross someone's line" or "never say anything and just accept how things are."

That said, I wouldn't be surprised if there was some subset of those living the lifestyle who formed some exclusive group of folks to have ethical non-monogamous relationships, particularly among a wealthier group, and the, ha-hum, prevailing attitudes of those in tech. These are the same types of people who wanted to build their own libertarian utopia on an island.

Okay, a pretty loaded statement. And another user that was in this same lifestyle posted, I'm writing this mostly because I think there is a lot of hype and sensationalist writing here over the tragic and senseless event that happened to Bob.

While I don't know the specific facts in his case, if we separate the shocking and sad part related to his murder, the rest of the story about his lifestyle decisions isn't really all that surprising or sensational, unless you are a conservative family reading the story from your white picket-fenced home in the Midwest, I guess.

It may not be for you, but a bunch of creative and highly functioning people deciding to explore their own relationship dynamics isn't really impacting anyone else and is kind of a continuation of the alternative lifestyle exploration that this city has been known for since the 60s. To which someone replied, I think Bob's story is sensational because it appears he was involved with a married woman who was cheating on her husband and that husband didn't know.

The drug part is nothing new or crazy, but the rest of the details are a bit out there. Also, the fact that her brother would kill Bob when his sister voluntarily was cheating and voluntarily doing drugs on her own accord, and she was an adult who should be capable of making her own decisions. Also, there is no indication in the Bob story that he and the married woman were hooking up through the SF lifestyle thing.

which I still don't fully understand what it is, but sounds like some sort of exclusive swinger tech elite club. Now, I'm just going to be honest. Personally, I'm not shocked at the idea that multimillionaires around the country have this sort of lifestyle, this thing, this swinger lifestyle, if you would call it that. That doesn't surprise me at all. And it doesn't surprise me that they would want to party and really let loose, especially because it is commonly said that once you are

living among the elite and have such an insane amount of wealth that it is very hard to become stimulated and excited by things. So these people are constantly pushing the envelope to get the next thrill.

Because for us lay people, what may seem like a thrill, maybe it's going to a rave, maybe it's being in a threesome, something like that. To these people, that's just another Monday afternoon, not even Monday night. That's just another Monday afternoon, Monday 11 a.m. afternoon delight. So for them to feel a thrill or feel excitement, they're constantly pushing the envelope. And

trying new things. Some even suggest, which I will just say it, even if they are completely heterosexual, some people do dabble in homosexual tendencies and explorations because they want to know what that is like. They want to feel what that orgasm feels like because they have never felt it before. I'm talking about particularly men in this instance. But it is something that is commonly known and spoken about that once you get to that level of wealth, passion,

power and the ability to fund any habit you have, do any traveling you want to do, do any recreational activity that you want to do, that you're always wanting to one-up that so that you can feel something because everything starts to feel even killed after a while. So again, it just doesn't really shock me that these tech giants or insanely wealthy people have these sex parties or have these swinger lifestyles because from so much that we've already heard and researched and seen,

it kind of becomes common. It kind of becomes stale and the norm, and monogamy becomes boring to a lot of these people. But again, to each their own. No judgment. This is a judgment-free zone. But I am shocked at the fact that Bob may have been killed because of his relationship, if there was in fact one, with Nima's sister, or even for possibly introducing her to drugs.

Again, if any of that is even true, which we don't know for sure. But if it is true, it just immediately brings me back to Lori Vallow and Alex Cox. If Nima's sister was voluntarily cheating with Bob, cheating on her husband, doing drugs, participating in this lifestyle...

Why is Nima the one who is retaliating and choosing to allegedly murder Bob because of this, because of his sister's activities? It just feels very Alex Cox to me. Like,

too close to comfort with your sister, not suggesting that there was any sort of, you know, dynamic like that in their relationship. Same with Lori and Alex, although who's to say? But it just feels like why would your brother be the one doing your dirty work? Why would, even if he's judging you for cheating on your husband and he's pissed off at his once friend for getting you involved in this, for doing drugs with you, for having sex with you, why are you as her brother so offended that you kill Bob over this? Take it up with your sister.

Or more than that, the husband, I would assume, would be taking it up with Bob.

It just feels like a very weird dynamic, and maybe that's me just coming off the heels of the Lori Vallow trial and her bizarre-ass relationship with her brother Alex Cox, but let me know what you think. Most recently, Nima was finally arraigned, and he pled not guilty. At this arraignment, it was revealed that investigators had the knife tested for DNA, which had Bob's DNA on the blade and Nima's DNA on the handle.

So Nima's attorney, Paula, once again continued her media campaign and was interviewed by Ashley Banfield over at News Nation. Now, let me just preface this before I play it by saying if you've ever watched Ashley Banfield, you know that she can literally act like a dog with a bone when she won't let up on a question. Today's episode of Serialistly is brought to you by Progressive Insurance.

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I personally enjoy watching Ashley. I enjoy her tactics. I respect her. Regardless of your own opinions, everybody's got them very similar to Nancy Grace. But that's exactly what happened here in this interview. And it gets heated on both sides. So just a warning. I am so happy to be joined by the person who's going to help me navigate because she's in it. Paula Canney.

She is the lawyer for Nima Momeni, the suspect facing first-degree murder. Oh, my gosh. I'm so glad to have you. Thanks for doing this, Paula. My pleasure. Hey, it's going to be a hard interview, so get ready, okay? So I have heard you say that this was not premeditated, that your client did not intend to kill Bob Lee. But then when you said it's a cross between an accident and self-defense, I'm

My legal mind sort of just exploded. And I need you to put it all back together for me. What do you mean by that? No, I think I'm going to just leave your head exploded on that phrase. I'm not going to say anything else. I also want to say, you know, about the prosecutor's description of the DNA. I haven't been given that DNA report, so I never like it when prosecutors give new information that I haven't been provided in discovery.

that's always sort of

astounding to me. So I don't know if that's necessarily true. And your comments about the lifestyle, I think, are super interesting because my investigation reveals that while the lifestyle is, you know, supposedly going on in San Francisco, it's actually going on in multiple other cities in the United States. The other hot spot of the lifestyle right now is Miami.

Wow. Okay. So I don't know if you're in the know and I'm not. Right. I'm not in the lifestyle.

I'm way behind, Paula. It sounds like a whole lot of crazy fun, but I'm glad I do what I do. So I'm going to go back a couple steps on our conversation. You started off by saying you're going to leave my head exploded with it's a cross between an accident and self-defense. But I'm going to press you on that because I did hear you say earlier a couple of comments. You said, my client threw the knife over to protect himself and make sure no one else had access to that knife. And when my client left, Bob Lee was outcast.

upright and you said that my client also had a much larger crocodile dundee style knife and if it was premeditated why wouldn't he use that to stab bob lee if that was his intention so i'm gonna push you on the fact that you're gonna leave my head exploded and get you to explain better for me what do you mean by it's a cross between accident and self-defense

No, I'm not going to do that. I'm not going to do that. What I am going to say, it's the most remarkable thing about this to me because I've done this for a long time. I was a deputy district attorney. I've been a prosecutor. I know now from reviewing everything that, uh,

The police knew who Bob Lee was immediately. He had his wallet with him. Friends and relatives had called in because they'd actually thought he'd been arrested because they do that share app thing, you know, so they all knew his phone was at the police station. And instead they, you know, tragically find out that he's at surgery at San Francisco General and they interview some of the people that he had been with earlier that day.

And the police knew that afternoon pretty much everything that Mr. Lee had been up to in the couple days before this event. But they didn't interview anybody. They didn't go knock on Neema Mameni's door. They didn't knock on, as you say, the beautiful sister's door. They didn't. And just I also want to say, huzzar.

The beautiful sister is still very married to her husband, who is a doctor and who had surgery, and that's why he wasn't there. Your client left.

a man with three stab wounds? That if it's an accident, I can get my head around that, but I cannot get my head around someone who accidentally stabs someone three times once in the heart and then drives away. How do you answer that? Well, I mean, that's my point. Hello. I just said to you, neither one knew. If that's what happened in that interaction, how does a person who's been mortally wounded walk a football field away not knowing that they're hurt?

How does someone accidentally stab someone three times?

I'm not gonna do this. I came here out of the, I said, accidentally stab somebody. Maybe somebody can stab somebody in a fight with them. I get you wanna make good television, but I'm not gonna do this. Now what I found so weird about this interview, which again, if you are watching the YouTube version of this, then you know what I'm talking about. But if you're listening to the podcast version of this, the YouTube version will be up in a couple of days and you can watch it there.

But the defense attorney, Paula, has this like weird ass smile when Ashley says that her client left this man with stab wounds on the side of the road. She's just smiling. Then she combats Ashley being like, hello to Ashley, as if she's like some kind of

moron or something. It is a very interesting exchange to say the least and feels very much like a power struggle in this interview. Now interestingly, the rest of Nima's family and other witnesses have also lawyered up

His mother is represented by well-known criminal defense attorney Randy Knox, who she hired right after her son's arrest. Anima's sister, Kazar, and brother-in-law, Dino, also are represented. And they're represented by Ed Swanson and Mary McNamara. So all of them have lawyered up, which, yes, it is always smart to err on the side of caution and get a lawyer.

But when all of the family members are lawyering up, especially when on the surface it appears it was a murder carried out by a solo individual, it begs the question, why? Why is the mom, sister, and brother-in-law all getting attorneys? Why are they all lawyering up when it seems to be an isolated incident that took place between Bob and Nima?

What do you think? Like, does that stand out to you or am I alone in being like, uh, that feels a little weird. So what's next for NEMA here? NEMA hasn't waived a preliminary hearing. So right now one is expected to happen, but that could in fact change.

and Bob's death, beyond those that knew him personally or professionally, has captured the attention of many others who respected and recognized Bob's contributions to the financial tech world. So for this particular set of facts to come out about his lifestyle and activities he may or may not have been involved in, it's

so crazy, again, that he would allegedly be killed by the brother, not even the woman's husband, which would still be horrible, but at least it would make it a little more understandable regarding motive, right? Or could this be a situation where they had that mutual woman that they both dated, so there may have already been some disdain and bad blood brewing between the two of them, so then that, coupled with this, caused Nima to snap and murder Bob.

I don't know. Another troubling detail that was revealed, though, is that Bob's conference with MobileCoin had already ended, but Bob chose to stay another day in San Francisco instead of heading back to Miami. Had he gone back to Miami when the conference ended, he may very well still be alive.

This case is a fascinating one, to say the least, because you've got the wealth, you've got the sex, you've got the drugs, you've got the cheating, the infidelity, murder, you've got it all. Then you have the brother enter the chat, and he is apparently the one responsible because he was so pissed that his sister was cheating on her husband, which, again, doesn't make a ton of sense to me as to why you would murder over that, but okay, maybe I personally wouldn't react that way. I would let my sister or her husband handle it, but okay, to each their own.

And like I said at the beginning of this video, the details in this case are still emerging. Now part of me thinks that that's because there is so much money and powerful people involved in this. I think that's why it took so long for so many of these details to come out, specifically the details about the alleged lifestyle that Bob was living. When there is that level of power and that kind of income and wealth,

you're able to hide secrets a lot more and cover things up a lot better. Cough, cough, Epstein, which this is nothing like that, but you get what I'm saying. So it doesn't surprise me that those details weren't readily available right away. But also with that, I think that we are barely scratching the surface of what really is going down in this case. Based on Nima's reaction to his sister's voluntary activities and choices,

It's my belief that there must be something more deeply rooted in that. Also, if the drugs that were in Bob's system weren't the cause of his death or affiliated in his death in any way, is there something deeper in the lifestyle? Do the players in this story become more complex? What is the reasoning for all of the family lawyering up? What is the reasoning for so much of the information in this case being hidden and swept under the rug?

I think it's slowly going to start trickling out. I think it just hasn't yet because of that money and power and those people in play. But we will see. I am going to be following it along very closely because it is a very fascinating case, to say the least. At the end of the day, Bob still needs justice. He was senselessly murdered. He left behind an ex-wife and two daughters who now don't have their father anymore.

So accountability needs to take place and justice absolutely needs to happen. But what the truth is in this case and what fully is under the surface will be very interesting and fascinating to say the least. So as I keep following this case, I probably will come back on here and do a part two and give you guys an update because

I again think that we're just really kind of scratching the surface here. But what do you think? I appreciate you spending your time with me, whether you are on your commute, whether you're in the office, whether you are at home cleaning. Thank you so much for listening with me today. Please don't forget, take a quick, quick, quick...

second, give this a rating on either your Apple podcast app, Spotify podcast app, wherever you get your podcasts. And if you have just a quick 30 seconds, please type a quick review. As I said, it really helps the algorithm. It helps push this podcast out to more people and gets more of these stories and cases heard by people, which is the goal. We always want to generate awareness and bring justice. That is the goal. So the more people that hear it, the better.

all right guys thank you so much and as a reminder we have an official serialously facebook page now follow along there if you aren't already on there i have q and a's i share upcoming guests where you can ask your question to the guest and get it read on the episode and i just give you all the behind the scenes details as they are happening so check that out if you haven't yet if you want the video version of this you can check that out over on my youtube tend to life and as

always you can follow me on Instagram for quick daily real-time updates it is at underscore Annie Elise

Alright guys, that was long-winded, but hope you had a great Monday. Hope you're having a great week if you're listening to this after it was released. New episodes release every single Monday, but I have been also releasing bonus episodes midweek when there is a breaking case update or breaking news like the Idaho case breaking news that just came out. So another reason to follow the podcast if you're not already so that you will get notified of those bonus episodes as they drop and not just the regular Monday release.

All right, besties. I'm tired. I got to take a break now. I need to go chug a Diet Coke. That's what I need to do. So thank you so much for tuning in with me today. It is your true crime bestie, Annie Elise, signing off. Have a great rest of your week, and I will be talking with you again very, very soon. All right, bye.

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