True Crime Vault: If Something Happens to Me
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This is Jepper Roberts with 2020. For more than four decades, 2020 has brought you an incredible variety of compelling stories. Well, now we're going to bring you back to some of the most heart-stopping ones from the 2020 True Crime Vault, and we're going to give you updates on what happened to the people involved. Thanks for listening. Coming up... This is me.

Covering all my bases, making sure that if something happens to me or my family or all of us. And the phone rang and the voice on the other end said, "When was the last time you saw Susan?" And I instantly kind of felt like dread. What has happened? 28-year-old Susan Powell was last seen Sunday. It has been three days. Four days and counting. Been missing for a week.

Josh had taken the children on a middle of the night camping trip. It was freezing cold. None of this makes any sense. He was like, yeah, the kids are here. No, Susan's not with me. And I was like, where is she? And he was like, I don't know. Where were you camping with? My dad and my mom. The children said mommy was in the van but didn't come back with us.

pretty significant thing for a four-year-old to tell a detective. Susan had often referred to her father-in-law as creepy. You're too close. There was Stephen wanting to be interviewed and he ends up revealing the biggest bombshell. We interacted in a lot of sexual ways because I enjoy doing that. She even goes as far as to say

If I die, it may not be an accident. Okay, go ahead and ask one last question. How am I going to find your wife without your help?

I'm John Quinones. It looked like the beginnings of a happy family. A young couple gets married and has two beautiful children. But behind closed doors, trouble was brewing. And it would ultimately lead to a tragedy that no one saw coming. It started with a mysterious middle-of-the-night camping trip, then a missing person, and later an investigation that would reveal a woman who feared for her life

and a family filled with secrets. As we first reported in 2020, the disappearance of Susan Powell is a mystery that captivated a nation, and it began in a place that's not used to being the center of attention. - Puyallup is a smaller town. It's located in an area that's kind of protected from wind and rain from the mountains around it. - It's a suburb of Seattle and Tacoma.

It's homey, it's growing, low crime. Lots of children who live there, lots of families. How many people are members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints? A lot of really nice people, interconnected through the church. It's kind of a very typical American community. It is in Puyallup, Washington, where these two families and these two lives intersect. Josh Powell and Susan Cox.

Susan was one of four daughters born to Chuck and Judy Cox. She was just, you know, a really typical girl and teenager. She liked to ride horses. She's my partner in crime. Susan tried to be rebellious, but she had too good of a heart. She was doing well in church and school, had friends, she loved choir. She liked her hair done, her nails done, wore stylish clothes. Susan had gone to cosmetology school.

She liked to make other people feel good about themselves. She got interested in boys as a teenager. She met Josh when she was 18 at a social event for young Mormons, and he was in his 20s. And she hadn't dated a lot.

In the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, if you are unmarried, you can attend a congregation that is for other unmarried individuals. And so Josh and Susan are both kind of circulating in this singles crowd.

There are these incredible home movies taken by Josh's dad, which were later released by police, that show the couple's blossoming relationship. You'll cut that out of the tape, right? When I first met Josh, I guess I thought he was cute. He was very confident and he thought he could get any girl he wanted. Susan said that he was treating her really well and he cared about her and he promised he'd make her happy.

Josh Powell was a ambitious, strong-headed, kind of nerdy guy. Just tall, dorky, his head's too big for his shoulders. He just looked awkward. He's got a job, he's got his own place, and he's going to college. Sounding pretty good. He's going to go to school for business, so he's somebody who is bright when he applies himself. They quickly fell in love.

You see pictures of them, they looked to be completely smitten. Josh and Susan's relationship goes from not knowing each other at all in October to being engaged by the end of December. When she told me she was getting married, I wasn't that supportive because she barely knew him.

And she just assured me that she's going to be really happy and that he wanted in life what she wanted in life. Those videos also captured Josh and Susan's wedding and the home life they built together after. Susan looked very pretty at her wedding. Very traditional, long white dress. So you put the ring in that box and open it up, put it on.

She was very excited to show off Josh and start their lives together. Let's see the ring. Let's see that ring. Hold your hand up, please. It's a young person's love story that quickly becomes dark. As the reception went on, Josh was ignoring her more and more.

taking pictures and hanging out with his family and then disappearing, I could tell she was getting more agitated. Susan and Josh didn't have much money and they found themselves doing some odd jobs just to get by. Susan actually was the financial provider. He kept going in and out of jobs and was never really settled with anything.

They moved to West Valley City in Utah because they were looking for a better life. They wanted to improve their economic situation. They buy a house and they start to have a family. I still remember the day that she told me she was pregnant. It was probably the most impactful day of her life. She was so excited because she always wanted to be a mom. I would describe Josh as an unattached dad.

Josh wanted to hold Charlie when he wanted to show him off to people. But other than that, he didn't want to change his diaper or feed him or give him a bath. Hey, buddy. Go up here. Here we go. And then they had Brayden. And if you look at the family pictures, there is joy and there is sparkle. Yeah. As little boys, they were rambunctious and mischievous and ran around being typical happy little boys. What are you watching?

- Cars. - And Susan loved them more than anything in the world. - Monday morning, December 7th, 2009, they didn't show up. - Debbie Caldwell, she is the daycare provider for Charlie and Brayden Powell. - And by

7:00, still no Susan. She had to be to work at 7:00. That's not like Susan to be late and not call. They don't show up that Monday morning as the snowstorm is coming in, and Debbie Caldwell becomes concerned. Debbie tried to call Susan on the phone, tried to call Josh, couldn't reach anybody. So I got in the van and I went up the street to her house. And as I pulled into her circle, there was no tire tracks in the driveway.

So I pounded on the door and I got no answer. So Debbie calls the emergency contact, which is Josh's sister Jennifer Graves and Josh's mom, Terry Powell. The conclusion that we came to was carbon monoxide. They're probably dead in their beds. We ended up calling the police.

911, what is the emergency? My son and his wife and their two children are not responding to calls. They're not responding to people pounding on their door. There's no trucks coming out of their driveway. We're worried that maybe gas has been left on or something like that.

And a couple of officers come out on a welfare check. They determined that the best course of action is to break a window to see whether or not the family is in there. And they said, "We'll go in if you'll pay for the window." And so we said, "Yeah, absolutely." They find evidence that pointed to some unusual circumstances. Why would that be here? That just wasn't a normal thing.

Good Monday morning, Utah. It is the summer 7th. Snow and ice. 2 to 4 feet of snow in this. December 7th, 2009, I was viewing a bank robbery case. And the sergeant asked me to reach out to patrol. They were out on a missing family out on the west side of town. Jennifer gave permission to the police to break a window and go into the house. The last officer just kind of shimmied in. He was like, what is up with the fans?

There are two box fans pointed at the carpet in the living room and we were all confused. The officers cleared the entire residence and found nobody inside the home and the Powell vehicle, which was a blue minivan, it wasn't parked in the garage.

The first thing I saw was Susan's purse was on a table and I started pulling out things. You know, I found her keys, her wallet, and had her driver's license and her credit cards. You would expect that if she had left on her own, was intending to go someplace, she would have taken those items. The kitchen, the master bedroom was fairly clean. I mean, the bed wasn't made. The bedroom for the children, the blankets were missing.

But yeah, the house was pretty orderly. There was no sign of a disturbance, physical altercation inside of the residence. On the morning of December 7th, I was sitting in my family room, homeschooling my three kids, and the phone rang. The voice on the other end said, "Josh, Susan, and the boys are missing, and nobody's seen them since yesterday." It was just the most horrible, sickening feeling. I just thought,

"What has happened?" Susan's friends were afraid that they'd gone out on a jaunt because Josh liked to drive and take photographs and maybe had slipped off a cliff or they'd gotten stuck in the snow. I made a few phone calls asking other people in the congregation if anyone had seen Susan. Jovanna goes, "I actually had dinner with them last night."

Susan asked Jovanna to come over to the house and help her with her knitting and crocheting. While she was there, Josh, who never did anything domestic at all, offered to make people dinner. She was crocheting on her blanket. I was working on the yarn. Josh and the boys were in the kitchen cooking. He called his father, Steve, to ask for a recipe for pancakes.

Everything he did was a little bit different routine than anybody else would have. He made them one by one. He took a plate into Giovanna. He took a plate with different pancakes made, obviously, into Susan.

He and the boys ate at the table and he brought our plates in to us in the living rooms. I think that was probably very unusual. I never ever witnessed them ever eating in the living room. Shortly after that, Susan began to not feel well. Susan laid down and Josh sort of suggested to Jovanna that it was time for her to leave. He was going to take the boys sledding and he and the boys actually drove out before I had finished putting on my seatbelt. That was the last time.

I saw anybody around five. My brother finally called right away, asked about the kids, asked about Susan. And he was like, "Yeah, the kids are here." "No, Susan's not with me." And I was like, "Where is she?" You know, and he was like, "I don't know. I have no idea." She went to work. Josh drives all the way south to a place called Point of the Mountain, and he places a phone call to Susan's phone.

We sat there and waited. It was a long time. It was...

An hour, maybe more, Josh finally showed up at the house. Josh had taken the children on a middle-of-the-night camping trip. It was freezing cold. None of this makes any sense, except to him, he does things spontaneously.

without any plan. And he took the kids. He said that he left Susan in the house. She was sleeping. We really wanted to talk with Josh and we wanted to record it. We had Josh follow us to the substation. He was adamant about taking the boys with him. When's the last time you've seen her? Probably about midnight of last night. We're finishing up a movie. What movie did you guys watch? Um... "Four." "Mama." "Hagelbeck." Josh is very evasive.

and he uses the kids who are in the room to distract the way. It wasn't forthcoming with answers or information, so it was very frustrating. Where did you drive to? Well, I started heading south to Willa, turned onto the Pony Express. How far down the Pony Express did you go? Not very far. Maybe 20 miles, I don't know. So what did you do once you got there? Hooked up a heater and had a fire for the boys.

Josh said they drove to Simpson Springs and had s'mores over a campfire. It's not really very clear exactly what happened that evening and the next morning.

We asked him if we could search his minivan and he agreed. The minivan was full of camping supplies like there was a tarp, a generator, shovel, graham crackers. During that search of the minivan where they find Susan's phone hidden in the center console,

It's this pink cell phone, clearly not Josh's. And he was kind of like during headlines. He just kind of looked at us. In no way did it make any sense. Susan's cell phone is in the van with him. Where the heck was Susan? Detectives talked to Josh and Susan's son, Charlie. There was one particular statement that raised a lot of eyebrows.

Who were you camping with? My dad and my mom and my little brother. Dad, your mom and your brother? Down the street from the Powell's, Kiersey Hilliwell sat in a downstairs playroom wondering, where is Susan? Then came the news. It made her heartbeat faster. Her stomach turned in somersaults. I just lost it.

Nine o'clock that night, Jennifer told me that Josh and the boys are home. And I'm like, well, where's Susan? And she said, we don't know. As soon as I heard that he was back and Susan was not with them, I instantly said to myself, what has he done? It became like this game of telephone, where people were passing along these little bits of information, and suddenly a larger story was coming together. He said he was out driving around. He'd gone out camping with the boys. And I'm like, are you a crazy man?

It was cold. That is 100% Josh. He did that kind of stuff all the time. But Susan would have never allowed him to ever take the boys out in the winter to the desert in the middle of the night. Never. I never believed his story at all.

It was determined we didn't have enough probable cause to secure a search warrant for the residents, let alone book Josh into jail, because we didn't have any physical evidence. The decision was a huge mistake because

He burns this metal object into oblivion. So thoroughly destroyed was this item that nobody to this day can say what exactly it was. Bags and bags of things are shoved into the garbage. Why would you do that the day after your wife disappears? The following morning, he is observed with the minivan pulled out of the garage, all the doors open.

thoroughly cleaning it, wiping it down, vacuuming it. It was really odd to me because he was running around the house grabbing piles of towels and putting them in the washer and finally we're like, you've got to go to your interview with the police.

Alright, I'll probably have to see if I'm gonna go grab my notebook and I'll be right back, okay? Okay. Josh Powell kind of has a uniform of sorts. It's typically a t-shirt, it's a leather jacket, it's denim pants, and it's dingy white shoes. When Josh goes in to talk to the police, in the tape, you see him initially acting very emotional. I don't know. I didn't even think it was that...

I didn't even think in yesterday. He's crying. His voice is shaking. He's just trying to hold it together. But as Detective Maxwell continues to push Josh about what's going on, Josh's demeanor changes. I don't remember what we were doing. Okay. So you don't remember what you guys did from 6 o'clock till you went to bed on Saturday night? I just don't remember what activity we were doing.

Josh is not a participant at all in talking about his missing wife. Shows no urgency in getting out to go look for her. Have you checked any places where she could be? I haven't had much of a chance to do any of that yet. He asks police no questions about what they're doing to find her. Jack, what places should we go check to see if we can find her? CD Supply.

I don't think she would be there, but she likes them. And he offers no suggestions, really, about where they might look. Okay, let me ask you this before you go. Go ahead and ask one last question. How am I going to find your wife without your help? While I'm interviewing him, another colleague conducted a child forensic interview. Right there. Yeah! Good job. It's got nice lights, huh? Pretty.

We went to the Children's Justice Center and they were able to interview Charlie. Brayden really wouldn't talk to them. Okay, well what did you do last night? Go camping. You went camping?

Who were you camping with? My dad and my mom and my little brother. The children said mommy was in the van but didn't come back with us. A pretty significant thing for a four-year-old to tell a detective. We got in an airplane and the airplane

Charlie's interview is perplexing because he says a lot of things that don't make much sense. Okay, so Charlie, when you guys came home from camping, who came home with you? And?

There was one particular statement that raised a lot of eyebrows. "Mommy is with the crystals." And how some people interpreted that was that the boys had been with their mom and she was not alive. Your children are telling bar detectives

that mom went with you guys last night and that she didn't come back. She did not go with us. They know that she didn't go with us. So your kids lie then? Do your kids lie? Sometimes they do.

With children, they're gonna go from threads of truth and reality to fantasy. And maybe things that happened long before mom disappeared, they're still in his memory and in his mind sort of fuses together.

She was not with us. I didn't leave her at the Pony Express. I didn't just take her out and drop her off or even do anything. I do want the lawyer because at this point I definitely want a lawyer. Could have I went and booked him into jail? Yeah, I could have. But we wanted to find Susan so we were putting a GPS tracker on his van. We want him to

be out and about and see where he goes. Instead of picking up his van, he went to the airport. He rented a Ford Focus. And he vanishes in that rental car for 18 hours. And when he returns that rental car, it has an additional 807 miles on the odometer. To this day, we don't know where Josh went.

Very quickly, the police realized that Josh was lying to them, that he was evasive, and he was not acting like a bereaved husband. When detectives spoke with Susan's friends, there was a very different picture of this marriage. She went to see a divorce lawyer, and he told her to make a videotape. This is me covering all my bases. This episode is brought to you by Shopify.

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Susan Powell has gone missing. Her husband Josh and two children have returned from an evening camping trip and police are asking questions. Josh says he doesn't know where Susan is and isn't giving detectives much to work with. However, his son Charlie says his mom actually came on the trip but didn't come back.

Josh insists that isn't true, but police are starting to have their doubts. And as their investigation continues, the Powells will suddenly find themselves in the media spotlight.

In a developing story, the search continues this morning. For a missing wife and mother in West Valley City. We had been hearing some buzz in the community that there was a woman who was missing. 28-year-old Susan Powell was last seen. Sunday night, a family dinner with other friends. It has been three days. Four days and counting. Been missing for a week. Utah gets missing persons cases almost every day. So this didn't really stand out as anything out of the normal. ABC4's Brian Carlson is live at the West Valley Police Station tonight. Until you start to hear some of the details unravel.

We've learned the search warrants for the Powell's home have now been sealed off. It's strange that he came home with the kids and not her. West Valley City Police calling this one a puzzler. Call it suspicious. Not even a clue. If you see her or know anything, please contact the West Valley Police Department.

Her friends and family were just starting to ask questions. They were out there with flyers, just trying to find out where she might be. Volunteers fanned out handing out flyers of Susan Powell. Josh, after Susan went missing, he went from the guy who was talking about everything and knew everything to somebody who said nothing, knew nothing. And a husband who says he does not know what has happened to her. We know the answers are out there and we need those who know where she is and what happened to come forward. I held a candlelight vigil a few days into her disappearance.

And Josh came to that late. After the candlelight vigil was over, Josh Powell did show up here in the park with his two children, but he quickly left without saying anything. Charlie had come up to me and he was telling me, "Debbie, my hands are cold. My hands are cold." And Josh scooped Charlie up and kind of pulled him away like this. And reporters were trying to chase him through the snow and he was walking away from them. You were camping with the boys? I have to go get my boys.

There was no point at which Josh ever seemed to even be concerned that Susan was missing. If he wanted to help on the website, he should have detailed a timeline. He never participated in any of the massive, massive efforts that myself and relatives and friends launched to put out flyers in malls and parking lots. He didn't seem like he was engaged at all in what was going on. It seemed like his mind was somewhere else. He spoke very briefly with local media. I've been trying to figure out

what I can do so I don't sit idle in dealing with this repeatedly. People were upset that he didn't seem upset that she was missing. And so people thought that's because he's guilty. Josh, will you give us a comment today? Pointing the fingers at Joshua, I don't want to do that. It seemed like initially Josh and Susan were a pretty conservative couple, loving family, couple of kids. We learned that there was a lot of distress, a lot of turmoil in their marriage.

He controlled the money even though she was the breadwinner. Josh is very willing to spend money building himself a fancy computer. Susan doesn't get that privilege. There's my new printer. Put the drawers underneath, shelving. It's sad to look at that family and know now what was actually going on. Susan was tormented about how troubled the marriage was.

She'd been really happy, he'd been a great husband, and she said that he really changed. He became not affectionate. - I'm taking a picture of the back of your head. - Awkward to talk about, but they also had issues in the bedroom. Susan was this beautiful girl, but Josh just was not interested in her sexually. It was just really weird. - He kept her at arm's length, he wouldn't kiss her anymore, he wouldn't touch her, he wouldn't hold her hand.

Josh and Susan's marriage reaches rock bottom in the summer of 2008. Josh and Susan are constantly fighting. They're arguing in front of the kids. Josh is exhibiting extreme control over Susan. She said, "One time we were having a screaming fight and I shoved him, pushed me back, and he goes, 'If you ever do that again, I'm gonna hit you.' But she said he never did." Susan's now starting to think about, "I've got to get out of this marriage." She went to see a divorce lawyer one time for a free consultation at my advice and

He told her to make a videotape of everything in your house. This is me, July 29th, 2008, covering all my bases, making sure that if something happens to me or my family or all of us that

Our assets are documented. And here is our safe. Got all sorts of files. Financial information. Speakers, 5.1 surround sound. Broke this and threw all my DVDs and made a mess. There's a hole in that wall. Beautiful diamond necklace my mom bought. Jade, that's a family heirloom. Not worth thousands of dollars, but I have assets. Hope everything works out and we're all happy and...

live happily ever after as much as that's possible. After she would email me a lot and just say it, "I want to do everything in my power to save my marriage before I walk away." Josh had warned her, "If you divorce me, you'll never see the children." So she stayed. Police ended up discovering the safety deposit box that Susan kept secretly from Josh at the bank where she worked. In it, they found a DVD, some savings bonds, and there was a makeshift will and testament.

The last will and testament, handwritten on one piece of paper, both sides, top to bottom, side to side, there was no room to write another word. She wrote about how bad the marriage had become. She talked about a million dollar life insurance policy that Josh had taken out on her. And she told her boys she would never leave them. She even goes as far as to say, "If I die, it may not be an accident."

That is our biggest piece of evidence. It's her last words. There was no doubt that this document was authored by Susan. The biggest mystery of this case is why didn't police arrest Josh Powell? I was frustrated because they hadn't arrested him.

I felt they had plenty of evidence to arrest him. Police have officially named Joshua Powell a person of interest in the disappearance of his wife Susan. The West Valley City Police Department took a lot of heat for not throwing the handcuffs on Josh. There's a pile of circumstantial evidence. Is there enough there to arrest him and book him into jail and hold him accountable? Absolutely there is. Could we? No. The district attorney's office would not file any charges.

They were very specific and told us that we needed to wait 12 months with no body. - ABC News reached out to the DA at the time, who declined to respond to this claim and refused to comment on the case. - Within days of Susan's disappearance,

He had closed their bank accounts, cashed out her retirement fund, took the boys to Puyallup. People we talked to say they can't believe that Joshua Powell has emptied the house and left what is ground zero in the disappearance of his wife. They say it only casts more doubt on a man they're having an increasingly difficult time believing. I suddenly had this

This thought, I should get Josh to confess. Jennifer volunteered with the police to wear a wire. What is this thing? I know what I've done and I haven't done anything. For right now, you just endure and take each day as you can. When Josh told police he took the boys camping in the middle of the night in Utah's West Desert.

Police started their search there. Detectives are scouring rocky hillsides and abandoned mine tunnels for any signs of Susan Powell. The police for months and months would search these mines, taking canine teams. And West Valley police detectives say they plan to survey as many as possible. The most intense part of this search is happening right at the bottom of this hill. Investigators are swarming the high desert. Josh told somebody that the best place to dispose of a body would be in a mine.

This is one of those abandoned mine shafts in which detectives went through. Nobody would ever find him. It's like finding a needle in the haystack. A lot of questions still unanswered at this point. There's a big part of you missing, and you want to know the truth.

But the family won't give up hope. There are still purple ribbons at their home. There are still stickers on car windows. Josh decides that he's going to take the boys up to his dad's house in Washington to try to get away from the media circus. You have anything to say? Josh, will you give us a comment today? You're a person of interest, Josh. Josh's dad, Steve Powell, he takes control. He shields Josh from the media and becomes his most ardent defender.

I call it Fort Powell because it became a fortress. They had the windows blinds drawn. They kept the house dark inside. When the media would knock, they'd open a crack and say no. They weren't talking to anybody. Hi, I'm trying to find Josh Powell. They were just their own little country.

Josh isolates himself from the world. He's not talking to police, he's not talking to media, he's certainly not searching for his missing wife. I suddenly had this thought, I should try and get Josh to confess. Even Josh's sister, Jennifer Graves, doesn't believe him. So she goes to police and she volunteers to wear a wire and go inside her dad's house.

They were just about to have dinner and we went in and the boys were so excited to see us. I didn't know exactly how to force this confrontation with Josh. I don't know.

Suddenly, I just shoved Josh into the bathroom. And at that point, I was like, drop all pretense. Just tell me where her body is. We tried to cover it up. Where is Susan? Jennifer did a phenomenal job. I just don't believe it anymore. I can see it in your eyes. There's something there. You're wrong. I think you just need to confess now and get it over with. No.

He still wouldn't budge. He still would not give me anything. I was so frustrated. Eventually, Steve kicked Jennifer out of the residence, calling her derogatory names. You are a...

I regret not getting the confession, but I don't regret going. This is Good Morning America. And joining us now is Susan's mother and father, Judy. Susan's parents, from the moment she was missing, they were...

very involved with the press. - Suspect your son-in-law. - Your grandchildren, what they saw. - But very quickly the tone changed. - We made a conscious decision. The politeness wasn't working. So we basically called him out.

Josh is a desperate person. He has no valid explanation for where he was. Chuck Cox and the family, they're putting the purple ribbons, they've got the billboard outside the neighborhood. All these things, I'm sure, are driving him crazy. But for 18 months, he sits in isolation and doesn't talk to anybody about it.

to try to get Josh to talk. We put together the honk and wave. What in the world is a honking wave? Thank you! And he said, you make these, you're going to get these huge signs and you stand on the really busy corners and get people to honk and wave to show their support. Thank you! It can cause anxiety and disruption in your suspect's mind. People start to do things as the stress tends to build.

They picked a busy street near a store that they knew Steve and Josh shopped at. And Chuck and Judy and others were out there with signs and everything. And there were television cameras there. We're not going to stop looking for her no matter how long it takes.

Steve pulled by and the next thing I know he's stomping over towards me. You can't do this. This is a store that I shop out. The only places where they passed out flyers about Susan, the only place where they put up billboards, the only place where they've duct taped flyers to light posts. How is you coming here helping to find Susan? It isn't helping to find Susan. How is your standing at our neighborhood market helping to find Susan? An extraordinary

personal and very public confrontation that erupted in the middle of the search for Susan Powell. Several family members were clashing in front of the cameras. They're all over the media. If somebody has seen her, then they can report to the police. And you're only going to do this. Which other stores are you doing this at, Chuck? It was ugly. It was weird. It was really contentious. I was waiting for the cops to come and haul one of them away. Since you've come out against my family...

Then Josh showed up midway into this confrontation on the street corner, and he had the boys in the van with him. Chuck Cox uses my sons as pawns in the media to drive whatever message he is trying to drive. Are you doing okay? Yeah, that's all right. I get a call from Josh. We were telling Josh, okay, are you going to do this interview or not? And he finally said yes. You still love her? Yeah.

He seemed very distant when I spoke to him. He had a hollow look and a stare that I wondered, is he trying to intimidate me? Josh, did you kill your wife? Then there was Steven wanting to be interviewed, and he ends up revealing the biggest bombshell. There were just sexual things going on between us. This is your daughter-in-law. We were watching this on TV, and our jaws just dropped.

Susan Powell was a young beautiful mother of two adorable children. She just one night vanished.

Detectives have named Josh Powell a person of interest in the case. He did some local news, some ambush-style interviews where they would ask him something on the fly. You were camping with the boys? I have to go get my boys. But he never really sat down and talked about what happened. I'll never forget the first time that I met him. I shook his hand, and a chill just, like, raced up through my spine. ♪

I just shook the hand of a killer. Are we rolling? Why talk now? Oh, man. I wanted to come out and say something. People who know me know that I'm a good dad. I was a good husband. I provided for them. Susan also contributed. Unless he was asked about Susan, he really didn't talk about her.

So you would think, like, you're going into this home and I'm supposed to get to know this dad who may be grieving, like this husband who may be grieving over his wife who's disappeared. But there was no sort of grieving. Nothing he told me during that interview convinced me that he was not part of what happened to her and why she disappeared. I know that you've told police that you were camping. You brought your two-year-old and your four-year-old camping. Is that where you were?

I'm not going to talk about anything that my attorney has specifically told me not to. Why not just answer where you were when she disappeared? Judge, can I suggest something? His father was there and his father really wanted to be interviewed, which was odd. And I had really no desire to interview Steven Powell at that time, zero. And I just thought, this is such a waste of time. This is pointless.

You think she ran away with another man? It was another man. I don't think Josh was in the room for that part of the interview. And before you know it, he ends up revealing the biggest bombshell out of all the interviews that I had done out of the whole case. What makes you think that she would leave, leave her kids, her two young sons,

And run away with another man. Susan was very, very sexual with me. She was very flirtatious. I mean, she was just, she did it. I did. I mean, we interacted in a lot of sexual ways because Susan enjoys doing that. I enjoy doing that. Why are you telling everyone that?

That's not to your benefit, but somehow in my dad's own twisted mind, he thought that that was the greatest strategy to keep the dogs off Josh or something. I don't know.

One day we were at an animal park. I was holding Braden in my arms and I had my hands like this. The part I remember is that Susan came over to take him from me and instead of just reaching out and grabbing him, she pressed her breasts against my hands tightly and she wouldn't let my hands out. And that's nice. It was a cold day so it was a nice warm feeling. Give me a break.

but he loved to talk about it i did ask josh um i said your father just revealed that he is basically in love with susan and how do you feel about this what is going on and he says she was just very flirtatious he was very dismissive of this whole thing josh and susan early in their marriage move in to see pal's home susan had often referred to her father-in-law as creepy

But she, I don't think, had any idea how creepy the man truly was. No, I'll do this. And during this period of time, Steve Powell is constantly filming Susan. This is a man who is collecting video for his own perverse gratification. Because Steve Powell is a voyeur.

always seemed to be creepily too interested when Susan would come around. She would tell me about those interactions and they were disturbing to her. He wrote a number of songs about Susan. Steven Powell even recorded them and posted them on his website. I can love you in a secret way. I can love you each and every day. He had a pseudonym he used, Steve Chantre.

While Josh and Susan were living with my dad, there was a point where she was alone in the car with my dad for a short time while Josh was in the house. And my dad actually hit on her. He has put his camera in the bag on the center console and left it recording. And so the audio of this conversation is captured. I really saw him. I loved him.

I don't know where you're going with this.

That audio was an opportunity to hear Susan in her own voice telling Steve in no uncertain terms she was not interested. I'm kind of meaning to talk to you about this because I realized the last time I came over and that my own father doesn't kiss me, you kiss me and I didn't like that.

She was extremely upset about that and disturbed, but even more disturbed when Josh just said that that's his dad. I mean, he was obsessed with Susan. He was absolutely obsessed and he wanted to talk about it. To me, this was the headline. And it also put a target on Stephen's back. And maybe he had something to do with this. The focus was less on Josh

and it shifted straight to Josh's father because it was so creepy. That was my big takeaway. Police raided the home of her husband and father-in-law, seizing several computers and sealed boxes after those disturbing allegations made by both of them right here on GMA Yesterday.

Hi all, Kate Gibson here of The Bookcase with Kate and Charlie Gibson. This week we talked to Whoopi Goldberg about lots of things. But one of the things we talked to her about is how as a science fiction and graphic novel fan, she never saw herself on those screens or on those pages growing up. I mean, I didn't realize that part of me until I watched Star Trek. And I saw it because I love sci-fi.

And for some reason, it never occurred to me that I was missing until I was present. You're not going to want to miss this episode of The Bookcase from ABC News. Susan Powell disappeared from her home near Salt Lake City on December 6, 2009. Since then, no word, nothing. Nothing.

The Powells, they had this entire campaign of their own. And it was to make Susan look bad. It was to make her look like she was promiscuous, like she was looking to leave the marriage and abandon her children. Susan Cox kept a diary, a secret diary,

Let's stay focused on the journals, okay? Because I think that's very interesting. I believe that Susan had a liaison with somebody who disappeared the same week she did. She was very open sexually, and when I read her journals, it's clear that most of the relationships she got into with males were ones that she initiated. It hurt hearing him talk about my sister the way he did because...

You know, she is nothing like the person he was describing. When Josh moved in with his father shortly after his wife's disappearance, he took some things from his Utah home, including Susan's journals. Basically, Josh and Steven, on their own stupidity, were telling, hey, this is, you know, the Holy Grail. This is telling us where Susan is. This is telling us how Susan acted. So that gave us the nexus through the judicial system to get into the house.

Susan Powell's diaries have taken center stage. According to the search warrant left at the Powell's home, police came looking for seven very specific diaries, all written by Susan. Diaries that her husband insists will help explain her disappearance. They went through everything in the house, including all of Steve's files, journals, computers.

They also find Steve Powell's collection of voyeur videos. Steve Powell is doing things like sliding mirrors under the bathroom door, attempting to get images of Susan while she's undressed.

I love putting her underwear against my face, just smelling her scent. Steve would narrate his videos to himself as he's shooting video of her dirty underwear. Steven Powell would save things of Susan she'd throw away in a bathroom garbage. Things like cotton swabs, wax strips, tampons. He would mark each one of them, like for specific storage.

In his walk-in closet, there was a filing cabinet that was locked. And once we got into that, that was kind of like the unwanted treasure that we found. Police say inside Powell's bedroom, they found thousands of images of mostly young girls, many naked, being videotaped without their knowledge.

Prosecutors say two former neighbors, sisters just seven and 12, were repeatedly videotaped while bathing. Police said Powell shot from his bedroom window into the neighbor's bathroom window using a telephoto lens. They've looked at Steve Powell, the suspect, in Susan's disappearance and ruled him out. But it's obviously of great concern to detectives as they're scouring through all the material they take out of Steve Powell's home when they see underage neighbor girls undressed.

on Steve Powell's tapes.

Powell entered a plea of not guilty to 14 counts of voyeurism and one count of child pornography. Stephen Powell was eventually convicted and sentenced to five years in prison for possession of child pornography. Because of all the things that the police encountered in the search of the Stephen Powell home, it became apparent eventually these boys were at imminent risk of harm. The best part that came out of the search warrant with Steve's house was Child Family Services of Washington

stepped in and shared with us that they would take custody of the children. The boys, ages four and six, were taken last night by the state, and now Susan's father is fighting to keep them with him. They were going to be placed, relative placement with us, so we were essentially foster parents. Josh didn't want them with us. My sons are safe with me. They're safe in my home. They're safe with my family. Josh's life at this point really begins to unravel. Josh

was very controlling with the children. He was controlling with everyone. He was calculated. So when all of a sudden the state removes the children, he loses control of the children, of his life. I think Josh's main fear probably was that once Charlie started talking to their grandparents, the story would get out.

They were saying things like, "Our mommy went with us on the trip but didn't come back. We can only see our mom again if we go camping again." Braden drew the picture of a minivan with stick people inside and "Who's this?" "Oh, that's me." "Who's that?" "That's Charlie." "Who's that?" "That's Daddy." And he said, and he volunteered, "Mommy's in the trunk."

We wanted to interview them. Will you sit right there? So I wrote the search warrant for that. Charlie, has anybody talked to you about your mom? No? I don't know where she is. She got lost in the sun. During that interview, it's very clear that Charlie has been coached.

His answers are extremely evasive. We can't talk about students or camping. I always keep things as secrets. The only thing we got out of that time was that at one point he said that she went camping, but she didn't come home with them. And then he kind of clammed up after that. I didn't want to talk to you on this one. I mean it.

While the Cox's were fighting for custody of the kids and had temporary custody of the boys, they were still essentially wards of the state. Washington State had control over these children and the Cox's were glorified foster care. So the boys are living with grandma and grandpa and Josh is getting supervised visitation with the boys.

Josh was going to have to jump through a lot of hoops. He was going to be observed in his interactions with his children. He would have to talk to a psychiatrist. He would have to talk to the social workers and the caseworkers. The visitation is at first understood to be taking place

at a secure third-party facility. But in short order, Josh takes steps to rent his own house and he begins pushing the social workers, asking them if they can move Visitation to this new house that he's rented because it's not Steve Powell's house. It shouldn't have the same concerns. I think the boys were the ones that originally told me, "Hey, we got to go to Daddy's house or something." And I went, "Oh, really?" I was concerned about that.

They were very excited. They were thrilled about the new house. And they were thrilled about the yard at the new house. I am in their best interest as their father that I should be raising them. Through December into early January, he was confident

that his reunification motion was going to be granted. Who has custody of your kids? Well, that was doomsday for Josh Powell. This is a story you can't write in a Hollywood script. No one would have thought in a million years that's how this story would have ended.

As the search for Susan Powell continues, a battle is brewing over her two children. The state of Washington now has custody of the boys while they stay with Susan's parents. Their father, Josh, however, is determined to get them back and has gone to the courts. But the fight for custody will pull Josh back into the spotlight, where this time he'll have to confront disturbing questions about his character. Josh, is there anything you care to say on your way in?

When Josh was fighting for custody of Charlie and Brayden, it wasn't about being a father. It was about beating the Cox's. The kids seemed like typical kids to a certain extent, but they were undergoing a lot of stress. I think Josh went into that hearing on February 1st thinking he was going to get his kids back. I was pretty positive that Josh was the one that killed Susan. I wanted to keep those boys out of that home as long as possible.

I was going to West Valley going, "Hey, guys, we need something." Pierce County authorities and investigators in Utah shared the common goal of protecting the boys. So the West Valley police in Utah passed along previously unreleased evidence recovered from the Powell's home. When I pushed West Valley and they sent us the disc with the cartoon incestuous images. The West Valley City Police Department

in Utah had found images on a computer taken out of the house in Sarah Circle way back in December of 2009 that were of great concern. They were characters from popular Nickelodeon shows engaged in sexual acts, acts of incest. The evidence was allegedly taken from Josh Powell's Utah home by investigators. They raised very serious questions about

Josh's ability to be a safe parent for the boys. He denies ever looking at any kiddie porn. He denies any knowledge about any of these images that had purportedly been taken off of his computer.

Illegal images? No. I asked Mr. Long, he saw nothing on there that he believed would be in violation of the law. Bad taste? I'll give you that from what he was describing to me. And that's when the judge ruled that the boys would stay with the Cox's longer. Images are enough that Judge Katherine Nelson is ordering Josh Powell to now undergo a psychosexual evaluation. This is an exam where they measure aberrant arousal, so you can't lie.

Because physically the arousal will show if you're into things that might be illegal. He had to take psychosexual evaluation, which is one thing that I know it wouldn't pass, but it included a polygraph. That means that Josh is going to have to do what he's avoided doing from the very first days after Susan disappeared, which is take a lie detector test.

He'd been able to get away with murder, so to speak, for a long time. But a polygraph, I think he was really afraid of. He didn't want to answer all these questions about Susan and how she went missing. He truly had gone down in flames from being pretty sure that he was going to get his kids back. Are you disappointed that you heard nobody coming home with you? I think...

The air was taken out of him. He looked bad. You just saw his welfare diminish. He looked more and more like a psychopath. He was running out of places to hide and he was running out of options and it was tearing him down as a person. The custody hearing between Chuck and Josh essentially was put on pause.

That was on February 1st. We know then that Josh spent the next four days preparing. We know that he transferred some of his finances. He gathered up some of the boys' things and toys, took them to Salmonation Army in Goodwill. He bought five-gallon gas cans and went and filled them with gas.

I said, "Look, I am afraid Josh is backed into a corner with the psychosexual and the polygraph. He knows there's no way he's going to beat those." So the morning of Sunday, February 5th, Chuck had gone to church early. I knew they were going for their visit.

And they were making it clear to my wife and myself, "We don't want to see him today. No, we don't want to go." I picked up the boys. They were waiting with their grandmother. And I expected to return the boys in about four and a half hours. Elizabeth Griffin Hall arrived at the Ruttle House, parked out front, and as children do, Charlie and Brayden,

got out of their car seats. They rushed to the front door, which is what they always did. I was one or two steps in back of them. The kids just rushed in. I saw Josh for just one second. His eyes caught mine, and he had a look in his eyes.

She looks him straight in the face, he slams the door in her face and locks it. I knocked and I knocked and I rang the doorbell and I started yelling at it. Josh let me in and I heard him say, "Charlie, I've got a big surprise for you." And immediately she smelled gasoline and she knew it was an emergency situation. I had a supervised visitation for a court-ordered visit. Something really weird has happened. I said I need help right away. He looked right at me and closed the door.

- All right, we'll have somebody look for you there. - Okay, how long will it be? - I don't know, ma'am. They have to respond to emergency life-threatening situations first. The first available deputy-- - Well, this could be life-threatening. He went to court on Wednesday and he didn't get his-- This is really a threat to their lives. - Okay, has he threatened the lives of the children previously? - I have no idea. - All right, we'll have the available deputy contact you. - February 5th, 2012, Super Bowl Sunday. - I went to church. I came home.

Super Bowl Sunday. I remember watching the Super Bowl that day and seeing the reports come in. Good afternoon everyone, I'm John DeCeppolo. We are interrupting your programming for some breaking news. And I got a call from my neighbor and he said change the channel. I was actually in Indianapolis. The Patriots were playing the Giants at the Super Bowl. Patriots lead the Giants 10-9 at halftime. And I was there with my family.

And it was halftime and Madonna was about to take center stage. As Madonna takes the stage to perform Vogue, Abby's in the stadium concourse trying to absorb the text she just received. I get a text, pops up on my phone. There has been a fatal explosion at the home of Josh Powell.

I couldn't believe it. I couldn't believe it. I thought, "I'm gonna get help from the neighbors. They'll be able to help me get the boys out." So I went screaming to the neighbors and said, "There's two children in there. There's two children in there." I said, "Oh my God." And I thought, like, natural gas or something. And they said they found three bodies. There's a fire. The house exploded. And we're hearing that Josh and Charlie and Brayden were inside. This can't be. This can't be.

And I thought, no, that can't be real. I would have heard something. And I called Susan's father. I said, Chuck, is it true? Chuck, Chuck, is it true? Is it true? He said, yes. And I didn't even say goodbye. I just hung up the phone and started crying. And I was looking at a house with steam still coming out of it and fires. And he went and talked to his sergeant or whatever. He said, yeah, they're there. And they're dead.

Honestly, I wasn't surprised. And the actions that he made after she went missing, I never underestimated him. And then to find out the details, it just breaks your heart.

The Pierce County Medical Examiner says both boys had chopping wounds on their heads and necks, but that's not what killed them. The cause of death for all three was carbon monoxide poisoning. We believe he bought two five gallons worth of gas, and one was used in the room where the boys were killed, where we found the hatchet, the boys, and one of the gas cans. And then after he had...

Police say there's clear evidence Josh planned out this house explosion and meant to kill himself and his children.

The morning of the 5th, he sent a couple of text messages and voicemails to people essentially saying goodbye. His sister Alina found one when it was too late to intervene after the explosion. What did he say? I think he said,

When you heard the audio recording, what did you think? What did you make of that? I thought he had lost all hope. To find out that

You know, he used the axe first and to find out that he said to them, you know, "I have a surprise for you." Any little bit of doubt that anyone could have possibly had that Josh killed Susan had to have gone out the window. The fact that he could have done that to his kids.

This wasn't tragic. This was deeply wrong. This was evil. You do not kill little kids. Police are convinced the explosion and fire that destroyed Josh Powell's home is a murder-suicide. I don't know anything else I could have done. And they're still dead. My daughter's still missing, and now the children are dead. I had them safe. They were in my care. They were gone.

I was frustrated with the Child Protective Service Agency. Why would they put this single woman in charge of these boys and send her into the lion's den? They had the right to grow up. The Cox family is determined to hold the state accountable and make them pay for the deaths of their grandchildren.

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For both the Powell and Cox families, the unthinkable has happened. Josh Powell and his sons, Charlie and Brayden, have died in a fire. Police rule a murder-suicide.

Devastated and desperate for answers, the Cox family is also determined. They plan to hold the state of Washington accountable for the deaths of the two boys. But for now, they mourn a promising young family whose future was taken away all too soon. You'll cut that out of the tape, right? Hey, Braden. Hold still. That's the saddest part, as you look at photos of Josh and Susan, Charlie and Braden.

You think about what could have been. Those boys deserved to grow up, and they never got the chance. We've been robbed of three precious lives, and it's just unthinkable that the same person did it. Why take the kids? Why? It makes absolutely no sense. My worst nightmare had just happened. But I went from praying that somehow Susan was alive,

to praying now that she was dead so that she could greet her boys in heaven. Outside the fenced-off crime scene, strangers visit the memorial that has risen. Flowers, balloons, and stuffed animals offered in memory of Charlie and Brayden Powell. Why would he go through so much to get custody of the boys only to murder them?

Come here Charlie. Here you go Charlie. Hey buddy. Well, one of the possibilities is he destroyed the evidence. Those boys were starting to talk and by destroying the evidence basically he committed murder on his two boys. It shows how much of a monster he really was and it shows how many people dropped the ball in this case. I was frustrated with the Child Protective Service Agency.

Why would they put this single woman in charge of these boys and send her into the lion's den? It made no sense to me. I wanted to get the kids no matter what. I wanted to get the kids. If I could have gotten through the door, I would have. She did what she could. She did everything right. There's no blame on her at all. Anybody who puts any blame on her is misdirected.

The Cox's have filed a lawsuit against the state of Washington on behalf of Braden and Charlie. It's a wrongful death lawsuit, and their position is that the state of Washington put Josh's parental rights before the welfare of these boys. The Cox family lawsuit didn't include Elizabeth Griffin Hall or any other individuals as defendants.

The fact is she was not the one that made the decision for this to be in the home. So to a certain extent, she's lucky she's alive.

And she's, I think, a victim in a lot of ways, too. They filed this lawsuit, $35 million for Braden, $50 million for Charlie, $5 million for each minute that these boys suffered at the hands of their father before they were ultimately blown up in Josh's rental house. Please be seated. Good morning, everybody.

You have a civil case against the state that started in February, was disrupted because of COVID-19. Please now give your attention to Mr. Buck as he presents the plaintiff's final argument. It is out of the state's field to live up to their own primary directive of assuring the safety of the children that this tragedy was born. What was the place that had the least protection? Josh Powell's home.

What about the level of risk? Then the state learned of the boys' statements. It learned of this incest images. It learned that he was going to have to undergo a psychosexual evaluation and polygraph. If the state had followed its policies, its guidelines, common sense, investigated, had visitations where it was supposed to have them, none of this would have happened. Thank you very much.

Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, this will be the only and final time that you hear from the state in this matter. The state took this very serious. They did their job. They followed their policies. Yes, the fact that Susan Powell was missing was known. But after more than two years after her disappearance, still...

No arrest, no charges against Josh Powell. It actually takes facts and proof to remove a child from their parent, to keep them out of the home. The guides on visitation shows the number one preferred location is at a parent's home. That's why transition to a home occurs. The goal in these type of cases is always family reunification.

I'm going to submit to you that Mr. Powell is the sole cause of the murder of his sons. It was not due to any negligence by the state of Washington. It was Mr. Powell who did this. The truth of the fact of the matter is they're the only ones who could have protected the children at that point. They're the ones with responsibility. Has the jury reached a verdict, ma'am? All please rise. Please be seated. The court is reconvened.

Has the jury reached a verdict, ma'am? It pleases the court we have. Was the state of Washington negligent? Answer, yes. What do you find Plaintiff Charles Powell's total amount of damages? $57,500,000. Braden Powell's total amount of damages? $57,500,000. For eight years, the Cox family has been trying to find justice.

And it took us a long time. And we took a long hiatus with the pandemic. Today, justice has been meted out. What I intend to do is use the award to try and help other people in that so that we can save more children. Jury members told ABC News they didn't believe any one individual at Child Protective Services was responsible for what happened. They blame a systematic failure for the tragedy. It just came down to this.

You cannot have reunification, you know, as your goal at the expense of child safety. And, you know, lawsuits change things. Brown versus Board of Education, Roe v. Wade. I mean, that's how things change. So 2020 reached out to several agencies in both states, and they declined to comment or refer us to other departments. In the end, we were unable to get an answer to our questions.

Could the actions of these agencies or their inactions have contributed to the murders of Braden and Charlie Powell? It should have never got to the point where you had Josh getting his kids into that house and blowing it up. I think that it is just one of those cases that will always kind of have a place in Utah's consciousness. And I think a big part of that is we still don't know what happened. We still don't know where Susan Powell is.

Does everyone believe that he harmed his wife? The answer is yes. That's what everyone believes. But what you believe and what you can prove are two different things. Josh's actions are definitely an admission of guilt. She's going to divorce him. If he can't have her, nobody will. So he kidnaps Susan and most likely murders her and disposes of her body. Where? Nobody knows.

The last that she was seen and heard from was her friend, Yovanna, was there at the house. And Josh, who never cooked, made pancakes for dinner. People think he poisoned her, of course, because he made them separate. She felt sick and sleepy. Yovanna Owings saw that, and then she's never heard from again. I know there are 10,000 abandoned mines in Utah. That's a lot of places where you can dump a body.

There's so many theories, I don't know which one it is, but I guarantee you. Susan Cox Powell did not leave that home willingly at midnight to go camping. This was a family that was not known to the West Valley City, Utah Police Department. They had never been called to the house. In other ways, Josh was just a classic abuser. He was controlling. My heart absolutely breaks for Chuck and Judy Cox. Think about what this couple has gone through.

They lost their daughter. Both of their grandbabies were horrifically butchered. And the only three people that could shed any light on this are dead. Her story will continue to live on and inspire others to move in the right direction, to move towards good relationships and get out of bad situations, abusive situations.

This is Deborah Roberts. The judge who presided over the Cox civil case has reduced the award to $32 million, $16 million for Charlie and $16 million for Braden. The Cox family appealed the court's decision. The original verdict was sustained. Meanwhile, as for Susan Powell, her body has yet to be found.

That's it for this edition of the 2020 True Crime Vault. Join us Friday evenings at 9 for all new broadcast episodes of 2020 on ABC. Thanks for listening.

Hi all, Kate Gibson here of The Bookcase with Kate and Charlie Gibson. This week we talked to Whoopi Goldberg about lots of things. But one of the things we talked to her about is how as a science fiction and graphic novel fan, she never saw herself on those screens or on those pages growing up. I mean, I didn't realize that part of me until I watched Star Trek. And I saw it because I love sci-fi.

And for some reason, it never occurred to me that I was missing until I was present. You're not going to want to miss this episode of The Bookcase from ABC News.