cover of episode To Have And To Hoax

To Have And To Hoax

2024/6/29
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Sherry and Keith Papini seemed like the perfect couple, they met in middle school and reconnected years later. They were raising their two young children in Redding, California, in the same house Keith grew up in. On November 2, 2016, Keith returned home to find his wife missing. Her phone was found a mile away from their home. What happened to Sherry?

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I mean, essentially, you were the target of one of the biggest hoaxes perpetrated on America in years. Next tonight here, the desperate search for a missing mother in California. Sherry Papini. Sherry Papini. Why did you lie? I didn't do anything wrong. Right now, you're not telling the truth, which is doing something wrong. Her then-husband finally revealing the whole story. When I pulled back the curtain and I saw her and I saw the look in her eyes, I felt in that moment that she was lying. You need to stop waiting here. I'm telling you.

Branding, hockey pucks against her arms and legs, the disappearance. Why would she do all of this to herself? There were definitely lots of people saying, oh, this is BS. It's an obvious hoax. But then things get far more twisted.

There's information that I think you have about the abduction. There's evidence that says you were around. It's a massive break in the case. And now it all comes crumbling down. Oh my gosh, do we have a monster in our midst? This is very weird for me because I know that you know everything about everything. She never took a break. Every single day she committed to the lie. ♪♪

This fire deep inside never stops a run. Better start a run. And there's no turning back, no turning back now. Don't make a sound, best not make a sound. There's no turning back now.

511, what is your emergency? So I just got home from work and my wife wasn't there, which is unusual. She was reported missing at about 5.30 p.m. on November 2nd. Found her phone and it's got like hair ripped out of it, like in the headphones. So I'm like totally freaking out thinking like somebody like grabbed her. What's your wife's name? Sherry, S-H-E-R-R-I.

♪♪

The whole Sherry Pappini story was just a huge bombshell to this area. The search is intensifying for a wife and mother who disappeared while jogging in Redding, California. The briefing was we have a lady that was out jogging, came up missing. Her husband came home not to find her.

and then the kids were still at daycare. - Sherry was last seen about a mile from her home in Mountain Gate. - Search teams are looking everywhere, trying to piece together what happened to Sherry Papini. - You had this beautiful blonde mom of two who all of a sudden had vanished. And whenever we have the abduction, especially of a mom,

Everyone panics. She is considered at risk due to the suspicious circumstances. There was definitely a sense of fear. We just knew that a young woman had been taken somewhere near the I-5 freeway. Her family suspecting something went terribly wrong. Someone took our daughter, snatched her out of the thin air. What does it feel like to have that thought that somebody has abducted your wife? Scared.

I was scared. Everything from day one had your hairs up on the back of your neck just trying to figure out what was going on. Sherry's disappearance was the start of a mystery that would grip the entire country as detectives searched for answers in the rural Northern California town of Redding.

Reading is unique. Northern California, two hours north of Sacramento. Roughly 180,000 people that live in Shasta County, but half of those people live in greater Reading area. It's just a very get-or-done kind of community that helps one another.

Sherry has been described as a super mom. Yeah. She's always wanted to be home with her babies and to be an important role in their lives. From everyone we talked to, Sherry, who was a stay-at-home mom, cherished her family life, doting on their four-year-old son, Tyler, and their two-year-old daughter, Violet. I know my sister would never leave her children, never leave her babies. They were a very nice couple. Sweet, sweet young people.

She's just very kind-hearted and different from other girls that I have dated throughout the years. She's just so down to earth. Keith and Sherry's love story is really rather sweet. They shared a very electric first kiss in the seventh grade, and they stayed close and continued to communicate all through junior high. We have a unique story. Years later, we kind of reconnected, and I remembered that I kept her notes that she wrote me.

I took her out on a date and I handed her a box and of course it was like all our little love notes back and forth. I mean this is like a cosmic connection. Yeah, yeah. Like we were always meant to be for sure. For Keith there was never anyone but Sherry. He knew he wanted to marry her and he did in 2009. They later had two beautiful kids. They're all living together in the very same house where Keith grew up.

Their whole relationship has just been a storybook relationship. They do just very sweet things for one another. Even her wedding photos looks like a celebrity wedding. Just so glamorous. The cutest, prettiest couple. We see these amazing family pictures. Absolutely perfect. Everybody's so happy. That is an incredible stark contrast to the anguish we saw from Keith in November of 2016.

take me back to that day. It was a little cold in the morning but it was a nice day. I went to work and I didn't get home until around 5 o'clock. He just came home to an empty house which was unusual for him. I looked in a few different rooms and I couldn't find anybody so I thought okay maybe they're outside. I looked around outside and

Couldn't find him. He thinks they're just on a walk, but as time passes and they're still not home, started looking for his family. Then I called our daycare type place. First thing I said is, "What time did Sherry pick up the kids today?" And when she said, "The kids are here," that was like, something is wrong. Keith goes to the Find My Phone app and he starts to track where Sherry's iPhone is.

It's about a mile away, actually, near our mailbox. I wasn't looking for a phone. I was looking for Sherry. When I didn't find Sherry, I parked and I got out, and now I'm looking for a phone because it's saying it's here. It's here. Keith was so smart. He took a picture of the phone when he found it because he thought it was weird, but he knew it was important, and he wanted to show it to the police.

Where exactly did Keith find Sherry's phone? So the phone was found right near the intersection of Old Oregon Trail and Sunrise, just a short distance away. I knew something was wrong. My first thing was,

Somebody took her. And that begins the search for Sherry Papini. Keith is panicked. He's calling everyone he knows, friends, family. When I heard Keith's voice on the phone, I fell down and just started crying. My sister's gone. Please bring her home. She has babies. She loves them. I said, there's not going to be a happy ending to this. I thought she's going to turn up dead.

This morning, search teams scouring these rural roads and trails, trying to piece together what happened to Sherry Papini. We're just using a map and we're doing some grid searches. The married mother of two vanishing without a trace last Wednesday afternoon while jogging near her Redding, California home.

It wasn't just that Sherry was missing and her cell phone was found. It's that her wallet, her purse, her keys were all at home. She hadn't used her credit cards. She hadn't been to the bank, the ATM, nothing. Ms. Papini has been entered into a national computer for missing persons. She is considered at risk due to the suspicious circumstances. Everybody

Everybody, put your good thoughts out there, put your prayers out there, and let's find Sherry. How quickly did public attention start to focus on this case and the Papinis? Oh, immediately.

Every day, you couldn't turn your TV on without seeing, you know, Sherry's picture. The desperate search for a missing mother. Sherry Papini. Last seen on Wednesday. The 34-year-old has been missing. It got massive headlines. I mean, everyone was following the Sherry Papini case. A story that is capturing nationwide attention. Sherry Papini. Sherry Papini. Sherry Papini. He was a

The amount of national attention was quite overwhelming. All the cameras, all the reporters, everybody going around trying to get their own angle. The community responded. There was hundreds of volunteer searchers within the first couple of days. The longer that someone's missing, that's a very critical time within the first 24 hours. We're working our way down on houses. It was really a wide variety of our community coming together to help the Pepini family.

Not only does the family offers a reward for the safe return of Sherry, but so do perfect strangers. A GoFundMe page is set up. That page, set up by Keith's friends, promises all funds will go directly to the family to aid in search efforts to bring Sherry home. In total, it raises nearly $50,000.

They probably had a couple of hundred volunteers that were scouring this area looking for any evidence. Keith is volunteering in the search. He has tremendous support from friends and family, and they had a single mission to leave no stone unturned. I remember hiking.

looking for evidence, looking for Sherry. Then we start to see some birds circling. They're like, you know, there's a lot of birds starting to circle over there. And I just went to my knees and I thought, am I really, am I really hiking out here to look for my wife? And do I even want to, I don't want to find her right now, but I do want to find her.

One of my good friends came over and just, you know, hugged me and let me cry on her shoulder for a little bit. It was a, that was a tough one for me that day. All this time you're dealing with this, you've still got two little kids to think about. Fortunately, I have a very, I have an amazing family and amazing friends, and they really, really came to the rescue.

on that, kept them happy, kept them out of this. Still, Keith knew he had to find a way to explain to his young son, Tyler, why his mom was away from home. I told him I had something important to tell him, and he jumped up on the couch with me, and he knew something was up. And he said, "Dad, you can tell me anything." For a little four-year-old to say that, I wasn't prepared for that, and I just said, "Son, you know, Mommy went running,

And she didn't come home, and we just held each other. And I said, she said, are you looking for her? And I said, everybody in the whole world is looking for her right now. And I said, we're going to find her, and we're going to get her back.

ABC News has learned police have suspended the ground search for the missing 34-year-old. Detectives now scouring surveillance video. It is very frustrating for investigators that we haven't gotten any viable leads or tips to pursue on. What was Keith's behavior like those first few days after Sherry went missing? He would answer every media question.

outlet, every chance to get on TV. I feel that she's going to come home and I want to be home when she comes home. I interviewed Keith several times and he would contact me and say, can we do something more on Sherry? What else can be done? Just to keep her face on the TV screen. It is excruciating. I don't like to think too much about it because

Basically, there were some inconsistencies in his story.

It made you a little bit suspicious of them. Sure. So at this time, you're not only dealing with the disappearance of your wife, having to break it to your kids, but you're also the prime suspect. The sheriff's office thinks that you had something to do with Sherry's disappearance. Yeah. It never occurred to me at first that people would think it was me. And then, you know, when you step back and you kind of look at this from an outside perspective, I'm sure you'd be, "Oh, it's the husband."

I remember family members were like, "You need to get a lie detector test and you need to get this and this because they're saying all these mean things about you." I never cared what other people were saying. Clearly investigators must do their due diligence in looking into Keith's life and activities. But at the same time with a missing woman, they need to know about her too.

We were looking into a little bit of everything, financials. We found where she had been previously married and had been divorced.

Investigators learned Sherry had married a Marine sergeant in 2006, which he said was because she needed health insurance. He said they never actually lived together and divorced in 2008. And in a quick turnaround, Sherry and Keith married the very next year. We checked with her ex-husband who lives out of state and found that he had not heard or seen from, talked to her in probably six years or more. So that was not a viable lead.

Even after an exhaustive search, investigators still have no solid leads. They're no closer to finding Sherry or figuring out how she apparently disappeared in the middle of the day. We were going to keep every option open and keep an open mind that this could be any type of situation. It could be foul play, it could be a kidnapping, she could be voluntarily gone on her own. Terry and Marilyn Smith, take one, mark.

It just brought back a flood of memories. The last time anybody saw Tara Smith, it was on this remote gravel road. Another pretty blonde girl missing again from Redding. There's a resemblance of Tara Smith and Ms. Papini, which made it maybe even a little bit more eerie. A missing mother in California. The family convinced she was abducted.

When you think about it, it's really rather unusual for a person just to be snatched off the street in the middle of a jog. But in Redding, California, it was not the first time. The last major disappearance in this county was of Tara Smith. That's correct. Hey, hi Tara Lynn. Tara was 16, very outgoing, very friendly.

well liked by just about everybody that knew her. You'll do great. Thanks, Mom. We did everything together. We were at church every Sunday together. We had a very close church family. She was a good daughter. I mean, we had typical teenage confrontations, you know, as most people do.

Tara Smith was 16 years of age, seemed to be extremely active in school, very good student, had lots and lots of friends. She had recently started taking a Taekwondo class with one of her best friends. She was spending time at the dojo and had this new instructor, Troy Zink.

The Smiths owned and operated a family entertainment center in the town of Reading, and Tara was the oldest of their four children. She helped out at the family business, and she was supposed to be working that night. So 6 o'clock comes and goes, and she doesn't show up, and that's not like her. She was always where she was supposed to be, when she was supposed to be. So I called home. Our younger daughter, who was 10, said that she had gone for a run, and she hadn't come back.

It started off looking at it from the perspective that this is just a teenage kid, maybe somebody else's house, visiting somebody. Started driving all the roads, looking for her running somewhere. Started calling her friends and nobody had seen Tara. We just couldn't find her. We just couldn't find her.

One of her friends called back and said she believed her Taquendó instructor, Troy Zink, had an inappropriate relationship with her. On the very first night she was missing, Mr. and Mrs. Smith were looking through her bedroom and came across some journals that Tara kept.

And in reading her journals, there were pages in there relating to a relationship between Tara Smith and Troy Zink. They also say they found this four-page letter that Tara had addressed to Troy Zink. To the Smiths, it seemed to confirm that she was involved in an intimate relationship with him. She wrote, "I know that what I'm doing is wrong. There is no way to overlook this fact. It's against God's will, and we both know it."

But the letter also makes it clear that Tara had deep regrets, and she decided to end the relationship. She wrote, "Ask yourself this question: Are you putting yourself and us before God? I know I am, but not anymore."

We think she intended to give the letter to him and then opted to meet him in person instead. We know that she did call him the day of her disappearance, which was Saturday. She wanted to meet with him, to tell him in person that she was calling off the relationship. I called the house, talked to his wife, and she didn't know where he was, but he wasn't at home.

At this point, the Smiths call the police and an officer is sent to Troy Zink's home. Now, he's nowhere to be found. And Zink never contacted police that night. But guess who he did call? The Smith family. He did get home and called us back. 11 o'clock. And said that Tara had called him and asked him to come to her on the road back behind her property. And she asked for money.

He claims that he told her he wouldn't give her the money, that she got angry, started cussing at him and screaming and hollering, and he ultimately dropped her off at an intersection. And he says that he last saw her jogging east on that fairly busy road. And then he proceeded to go home, get his dogs, and then go up to the mountain to pray.

The last time anybody saw Tara Smith, it was right here on this remote gravel road, just about a quarter of a mile from where she lives with her family. I remember covering this case so well. I covered it for a while. Last person to see her was Troy Zink. Police launched an extensive search for Tara, but no body or any trace of her was ever found.

Mr. Zink, could we have just a second? Once Troy Zink was named a person of interest, he retained a lawyer and then refused to talk to investigators or submit to a polygraph test. And while that case still remains open to this day, Zink is on the record saying he had nothing to do with Tara's disappearance and he was never charged. I know there remains something that's always found. People don't just go missing and are never recovered. And sadly, that's not the case.

18 years had passed since Tara Smith went missing, a tragedy still fresh in the minds of the Reading community when Sherry Papini disappeared in a similar way. It was on the investigators' minds. In fact, there is a resemblance of Tara Smith and Ms. Papini, which made it maybe even a little bit more eerie. A hunt for a woman who vanished without a trace. We lost our daughter. She disappeared.

She never came back, so I don't think we thought Sherry would be found. This whole incident just brought back that fear and concern in our community that was rampant back then when the Smith woman was missing. Missing mother last seen jogging near her home. What happened to Sherry Papini? That's part of what made our community really get behind Keith and his efforts. It is very difficult for me and for my family

I would never wish this feeling upon anybody. It is taking its toll on me. Now at this point, Keith is contacted by someone who claims he can help as a hostage negotiator. These videos this guy was putting out, when I watched them, I was a little shocked. I wanted to make it so tempting that the abductor's own mother would have turned to me.

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This episode is brought to you by Shopify. Do you have a point of sale system you can trust, or is it a real POS? You need Shopify for retail. From accepting payments to managing inventory, Shopify POS has everything you need to sell in person. Go to shopify.com slash system, all lowercase, to take your retail business to the next level today. That's shopify.com slash system.

At the end of the seventh day of the search for Sherry Papini, investigators seem no closer to finding her. I'm just wondering about her health. Are they feeding her? Is she hot? Is she cold?

The rule of thumb for criminologists in any missing persons case is that the first 72 hours are critical. And with every passing hour, the chances of finding the victim alive fade. So investigators looking for Sherry are desperate for a break. But still, at this point, the only piece of evidence they have to go on was her phone. The phone was found in this general area right here, facing up.

Her earbuds were somewhat coiled and placed on top of the phone, and there was a few strands of her hair with the earbud. Did it make you think that perhaps it was staged? It looked like it could have been placed there. It didn't look like the phone was thrown down or just haphazardly set off to the side. There's so much about the abduction that just doesn't add up.

And so with so very little to go on, investigators can only do one thing at this point, and that's focus their attention on Keith Papini. We called in a polygraph examiner to polygraph Keith. I was like, "No problem. Let's hurry up and get this over with." It's a crazy feeling just going through that. Did they ask you if you had anything to do with Sherry's disappearance? Oh, of course. These tests, they don't tell you if it's a big lie or a small lie. They just know, like, when you're lying.

How did he do on that polygraph test? He passed polygraph. Local officials are saying her husband's polygraph test indicates that he had no involvement with her disappearance, adding that they were also able to confirm his whereabouts the day she went missing. Everything that he did that day, we were able to corroborate. He was with another coworker that we were able to say that he was with him all day.

In most cases of domestic abuse or disappearance, the spouse or the partner has something to do with it that never bothered you. I knew, obviously, it had nothing to do with it, and I didn't care. I looked past all that.

Police are still no closer to locating Sherry or figuring out why she was taken or by whom. We need something tangible to hold on to. And when you don't have that or you're dancing around some answers that may be there, it can get very frustrating and taxing and tiring.

Now at this point Keith is contacted by someone who claims he can help as a hostage negotiator. His name is Cameron Gamble and he tells Keith that an anonymous donor has offered $50,000 for Sherry's safe return, no questions asked. You don't know who the anonymous person is? No.

It's anonymous to you as well? Yes. My name is Cameron Gamble and I'm an international kidnap and ransom consultant. I've been retained by an individual who wishes to remain anonymous. Who is Cameron Gamble? We know he's a former Air Force senior airman who makes a living training military, law enforcement, even private citizens on how to evade and escape capture. There was no idea or thought that if I think could work, that I was not going to try.

Gamble decides to post a video on YouTube promising the kidnappers a payday. Take advantage of this opportunity. But there is one very important condition. They must return Sherry by the Wednesday before Thanksgiving. What made you so confident that this was an abduction and not something else? Everything I looked at fit that bill. Look at the husband. He wasn't faking it. Look at Sherry herself. This isn't the type of girl who's just going to walk away from all that.

Bring her home. Bring her home safe. There's a $50,000 reward. Bring her home. Cameron Gamble makes this public plea specifically to the kidnappers. And he says, "I will work with you. I will talk to you. I will negotiate this. Contact me." Well, of course they don't contact him. Your critics would say that this is a publicity stunt.

They can say that all they want. I don't do this for the critics. I do this for the small number that actually matter, and that being Keith and Sherry. I don't know your motive. I don't know who you are. I don't care. I simply care about getting Sherry back. Did you ever expect someone to ring you up and say, I have Sherry. I want the money. I was hopeful. You were so convinced that Sherry was still alive. You know, you go into these situations thinking they're dead. Then you lose hope right off the bat. ♪

Though Cameron Gamble's motivations are sincere for the investigators on the case, his involvement muddies up what was already a murky case. We were opposed to it. And the reason we were, this would create kooks, scam artists, con artists coming out of the woodwork. There were some big opponents to this. The sheriff was adamantly opposed to Cameron Gamble being involved in any way. For me, I was going to do everything I could to get my wife back.

The deadline for the ransom comes and goes, not a peep from the kidnappers. So on the day before Thanksgiving, Gamble throws Hail Mary. The ransom is now a six-figure bounty, and it's for anyone who turns in the kidnappers. You lead us to Sherry, and we give you more cash than you can spend.

These videos this guy was putting out, when I watched them, I was a little shocked because they went from cooperate with us, we don't care, to now we're taking the money off the table and we're coming after you. I wanted to make it so tempting that the abductor's own mother would have turned him in. About three weeks after Sherry disappeared, on the morning of Thanksgiving before the sun has even come up, this trucker calls 911.

911 emergency, what are you reporting? There's a lady on the side of the road who's needing help. Can I talk to her? Please, please! Oh my God, this is unbelievable. It's now been more than two weeks since Sherry disappeared on November 2nd. There's no leads, and Thanksgiving is just around the corner.

Thanksgiving morning, there's a tradition here of a big race called the Turkey Trot. And so Keith had asked that balloons be released that day in honor of Sherry, in honor of the search for her. You know, we're all looking for you, and here's just a symbol. Here's home. And I really like that.

Happy Thanksgiving. It's going to be a cold morning. You've got the turkey trot in Redding. Bundle up. If you're up just getting your turkey ready, I want to wish you a happy Thanksgiving. In the pre-dawn hours of November 24th, which was Thanksgiving morning, 150 miles south of Redding in Yolo County, a driver spots a woman in distress on the side of the highway.

A truck driver actually pulled over with his big rig because she was standing trying to wave cars down and she was frantic. So this trucker calls 911. 911 emergency, what are you reporting? Hi, I have an emergency. There's a lady on the side of the road.

Do you know what's wrong with her? Okay, just be safe where you are. What is she asking for? Do you see her chained up? Yes. Her name is Sherry Panini.

Can I talk to her? Here. Please. Please. Sherry, I need you to listen to me. Listen to me. Please.

Do you know where you are? No. No. I've been in the car. Okay, take a deep breath, sweetie. Who chained you up? Do you know the person or were you kidnapped? I don't know. I don't know. Okay, listen. Listen, I have help on the way. I want to go home. Very early in the morning, Thanksgiving Day, you get a phone call.

My cell phone rang. I didn't pick up the first call. I was just getting done shaving. I didn't recognize the number. Immediately after that, my home phone rang. I pick it up and it was a very mixed emotion. It was my wife screaming in the background.

I'm panicked, but I'm happy because at this point, this is the first time I've heard her voice. I know she's left. And you hear her, and I hear screaming. So then I get the phone, and oh my God, honey. And of course, she's screaming. It's very emotional. And I love you, I love you, I love you. Oh my God, you're here, you're back. Where are you? And then the phone gets taken away from her super quick.

I got a call from Keith. Keith was frantic, yelling into the phone. They found her. She's been located. Telling me CHP down in Sacramento area had Sherry. Meanwhile, back in Redding, there's about to be a big balloon release. But no one knows anything about the miraculous return of Sherry from captivity.

I was supposed to meet Keith at the Turkey Trot that morning, but Keith didn't show up. And so that's when I just went home and was up working on my roof when I got the call from Sheriff Pesenko saying Sherry had been found. We are very ecstatic to report

that sherry papini has been located she was found early thanksgiving morning near i-5 in yolo county sherry papini found alive missing for nearly a month under mysterious circumstances has been found alive it was just kind of surreal like what do you mean we found her then my mind kicks in at that point who what how is she alive the paramedics were the first people to tell her happy thanksgiving it just blew her mind and uh

And then she's like, "Oh, it's Thanksgiving night?" And they said, "No, it's Thanksgiving morning." Sherry is immediately transported by ambulance to the Woodland Hospital. That's where I met her a couple hours later. First walking into the hospital room,

Sherry was pretty hostile, which I didn't expect. Detective Wallace recorded that first interaction at the hospital with a very shaken sounding Sherry. I can't imagine what you've been through. We don't know how this happened. I don't know. No one can protect me. I just want my husband. No one found me and I want my husband. I want my husband. One of the officers kind of braced me and put his arm around me and he said, you know, prepare yourself.

She's alive and you just got to be happy. And in that recording, you can hear how emotional Sherry sounds when she's reunited with Keith. Sherry Papini is found alive and everybody is ecstatic about her safe return. But this story is about to become far more twisted than anybody can imagine.

Looking at her injuries at the hospital, I was shocked by them. Her kidnappers had branded her. Why would you starve her, torture her, and chop off her hair? How could somebody do something like this? That's the mystery. Why?

But then, everyone has questions. There were definitely lots of people saying, oh, this is BS. It's not true. Things just started to not really add up. Investigators also get the DNA hit. The DNA was of a male. What are the chances? That's not what happened. What didn't happen, Sharon? I don't know. And Keith Papini today, in an all-new interview, he lays out the whole story for the first time. How did you not pick up on it all those years together? I don't know.

The DNA doesn't lie. There was always something that wasn't right. Every day I was trying to figure out what happened and who took her, who was responsible. Because everything you thought was true wasn't true. Why did you lie? Into that case that made national headlines. Sherry Papini. Sherry Papini. Sherry Papini. Sherry Papini. I can't remember lifting my leg. I can't remember the back door open. Her ex-husband.

Now speaking out. I think that she wanted to plan a fake kidnapping, but in her version, I was supposed to find her. You seem scared, Sherry. What is it? That's not what happened. What did happen, Sherry? Now, how he got conned. And you have a battered, beaten, bruised, burned woman screaming her head off, chained, boards on the walls. Who are you going to believe in that moment?

I didn't do that. We're trying to understand why you did that too. I mean, she left the phone with her hair pulled out playing our wedding song. I mean, she set the clues. Is that evil or is it just sick? A young mother goes missing, vanishes. The mystery evolved in the town of Reading, but really the story gripped an entire nation as police looked everywhere for Sherry. About three weeks after Sherry disappeared,

22 days later, on the morning of Thanksgiving, before the sun has even come up, she's found alive. Good morning, America. A Thanksgiving miracle. Sherry Papini, the Shasta County mother missing for three weeks, has been found alive. We are very ecstatic to report that Sherry Papini has been located. She and Keith have been reunited. It was Thanksgiving Day. They just said, "Sherry's back. Sherry's home."

She's been found. We were so happy for Sherry, so happy for her family that they got her back. And then it felt like just a stab in the heart at the same time because we didn't get our daughter back. It brought all that pain back again to not get our daughter back. It was amazing to see her alive and talking and saying our names. But it was hard to see her in the condition that she was in.

Looking at her injuries at the hospital, I was shocked by them. I've been to several homicides, I've been to several domestic violence situations in my career, but the totality of the injuries for it to be all over her face, her arms, her legs, and her chest and her back was just alarming. In 2016, I spoke to Keith just days after Sherry returned.

What did you see? The bruises were just intense. Her hair, everybody knows Sherry. She's always had very long, blonde hair. And, you know, they chopped it off. She lost almost 15% of her body weight in 22 days. That is traumatic physically. It made me sick that there is people out there that could do something like this.

Now, the detectives want to talk to Sherry. They're looking for any information that she can give them about the horror that she had just endured. But it didn't really seem like Sherry wanted to talk to them. I don't want to talk to you. Tell me. I'm going to look at them. I'm not leaving you.

Sherry says she doesn't want to talk to the police because she's afraid of them. Her kidnappers told her that she was going to be sold to someone as part of a sex trafficking ring and that one of the people involved was actually in law enforcement. He said that they were involved and I want to talk to them. I want to talk to them.

She really wasn't having any part of talking. We made the investigative decision to keep Keith in the room to hopefully start getting the information. We have to do this and we have to catch these people. Let's just answer everything they want to know. With Keith asking the questions, Sherry begins opening up about what happened to her. On November 2nd, Sherry said she was on a run in her neighborhood.

She initially saw a black SUV going north. She said the younger female got out with a handgun.

And Sherry just froze. She was instructed to get into the vehicle. I'm sorry, I'm sorry. But first, she places her cell phone and earbuds on the ground and pulls out some strands of her hair to place on top of those items. They begin to drive. She doesn't know where they're going. That first day, you were supposed to be in the car for a while. Is that right? I don't know. I lost time. I lost a lot of time.

Did she know the people she was with? No. The people who abducted her? No. Didn't recognize them? No. Did she ever see them? Their faces were always covered.

Aside from all the bruises and abrasions and restraints, police were pretty shocked to find that Sherry actually had been branded on the upper right portion of her back. And I, they said I was branded. And that's what they said. That's what they said. They brought a table with me. They did my back. They tied me at the table. They beat me every time I moved.

The word was "Exodus," something from the Bible. She was physically abused quite a bit, but there was no evidence of any type of sexual abuse. Sherry Papini has endured three weeks of beating and abuse and torment. Then after all that, the kidnappers let her go.

Sherry says she has no idea why they suddenly decided to release her. I'll never forget hearing Keith Papini talk about the moment he got to see his own children reunited with their mother. Four-year-old Tyler went first. He hugged her and my wife, obviously very emotional and started crying and she said, "I'm so happy." And my son, of course, is like, "You don't cry when you're happy."

And my wife said, "When you're this happy, you cry." Then it was two-year-old Violet's turn. She just said, "Mommy!" and just took off running. She picked her up and then we all went to the ground for a big family hug. What a blessing, right? That she was found safe. But then everyone has questions. Once she returned home, we went from worrying about finding a lady to now finding her abductors.

The cops took every piece of clothing that she was wearing, including her underwear. They bagged it, sealed it, because they were going to test it for forensic evidence and DNA. Authorities are now searching for two Hispanic women armed with a handgun in a dark SUV. I see a vehicle go past. The window goes down, but it was a woman.

There's dangerous people out there inflicting this type of harm and torture onto somebody. It's like, oh my gosh, do we have a monster in our midst? After 22 really harrowing days, Sherry Pappini, she's home. Everyone really is overjoyed about this. But it wasn't over yet. Still, these alleged kidnappers are on the loose.

Officials say they're looking for two Hispanic women that they consider to be armed and dangerous driving a dark SUV. Two Hispanic females in a dark colored SUV in the state of California is not much of a tip. No, it would be literally a needle in a haystack. The investigation is far from over. In fact, it has only begun a new chapter. In this video, you see detectives from the Shasta County Sheriff's Office interviewing Sherry.

She was in a ball, in a cocoon essentially with her knees up to her chest. I feel like sometimes it's easier with my eyes closed. Sure. Is that okay? Absolutely.

Again, Keith had to be present for the interview. She wouldn't allow us to talk to her alone. I can't be alone with people I don't know. So he's here. He's here for the duration. We're here for you. I'm here for you. Cops go out of their way to reassure Sherry and make her comfortable, but you can see she's reluctant to open up to them. That's another thing I'm scared about. I don't know you guys. I don't know if you're in my corner or not.

I know my husband. I know my husband's in my corner. But, you know, there was a lot of other things. And I know that you guys know about everything.

That's embarrassing and yucky and that's weird for me. That's weird for me. Now, Sherry provides these very unique details about the home where she was held captive. And all of these specifics can help investigators narrow the search, especially as they get closer to potential suspects in a case. She said she was put into a bedroom.

Sherry described that bedroom with just a single bed, no other artifacts inside the room. There was boards on the windows and I yanked that out of the wall super quick and that's what got her in the room was that noise. The yanking it out was what made the noise. Broke my nail, ripped it off. She came in and then it was lights out. What do you mean it was lights out? I can't remember if it was

If I was hit with something, if I was stuck with something, if it... And that's what I was asking too, if I was tased, wouldn't I remember? Sherry tells investigators that she was chained to a very specific kind of pole in the closet. There was a chain around my waist. Do you know what you were affixed to? Was it a tether? Was it like a rope? A metal cable.

was the cable affixed to the wall and like the cable was loose? The cable was affixed to a pole that went up into the ceiling. She describes it as a piece of all thread, essentially a long bolt that has grooves just like a screw. So the cable that you were attached to, that was loose.

I had slack. Slack, yes. Yes. I could get to the bed. So it reached the bed. Okay. I could obviously get to the closet. Couldn't reach the door. How about the bathroom? What's that look like? It just was a standard. There was a crack in the tile. It was a light colored tile that was speckled. There was a crack in the tile.

It was always hands on the wall. It was a really high-pressured shower. That very first shower that I had hurt really bad because the burn was fresh and the water was running over it and there was other open wounds and it just... She literally lived through hell. The things she told me that she did acted like she was tucking in her kids. She told me one time she took some piece of cloth

and rolled it up like it was violet. She would rock it. She's so strong. The Shasta County Sheriff offered new information this afternoon into the abduction and discovery of a running woman. The sheriff held a news conference today describing Sherry Papini as courageous and revealing details about her three-week ordeal. Suspect number one had long curly hair. She had a thick accent. She had pierced ears. Suspect number two

He had straight black hair with some graying color. She had thick eyebrows. I've lived here most of my life. In the Hispanic Latino community, we were shocked, but it could have happened. I mean, we had to have an open mind and think, well, maybe these were gang affiliates who did this horrible thing.

Sherry told investigators, "They kept telling me no one's ever gonna believe me. No one's ever gonna believe me. That's because people from law enforcement are involved in this ring, and you are going to be sold to someone."

We do have some sex trafficking going on in our community, unfortunately, like probably every community. But there are others who thought that certain details of Sherri's story weren't actually consistent with sex trafficking. If you're going to traffic someone for monetary purposes, are you going to starve them, beat them, especially in the face, chop off their beautiful long locks? You're going to do the opposite. You want them to look like someone you can sell.

Unfortunately. Things just started to not really add up exactly. Next, the strange new twists in the case of Sherry Papini. Rumors that it could all be a hoax.

There were definitely lots of people saying, "Oh, this is BS. This is an obvious hoax." Many reports have said that this was a little bit of a attention-seeking kind of couple, sort of a reality show ready to go. And there started to be rumors that circulated that Sherri had something to do with her own disappearance. Did that anger you? In my darkest hours, I obviously explored any possible outcome, you know.

Could she have just left? I mean, there's no evidence. And then, as everybody will tell you, no, she couldn't have. I knew it in my heart.

With mysteries still swirling about who's responsible, this Northern California community is on edge. Should the community be worried? The community should be concerned. The police are mystified. It was frustrating. I did not want this to be a cold case when I retire someday. I assume you were also looking into Sherry's background. Oh yeah. There's some red flags there. She had been talking to a man in the days before she was abducted. Not her husband.

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And five months later, there is still a lot police don't know. There is concern about inconsistencies in Sherry Papini's case.

There were no witnesses at the time. We had very little to go on. Some things just weren't adding up. While the police are mystified, the Papinis go quiet and lay low. Sherry and Keith have a dinner with the Smith family. Remember, those are the people who still have no answers on their own missing daughter, Tara. We had a nice dinner, just, I guess, to talk about the shared experience, kind of, and

support them. We didn't ask questions, we didn't probe too much about her experience, but it definitely looked like she had been traumatized. She went to use the restroom and was so claustrophobic, she said as a result of having been bound in a close space, that she asked Keith, her husband, to go in the restroom with her. We thought given what she experienced was understandable.

When lights are off, when doors shut, when she hears certain sounds, I mean, it's something that I don't know how to deal with, and we'll need somebody that can help her through that from a professional standpoint. Sherry gets that help, and it comes from a government program that gives financial aid to victims of crime. And it paid thousands of dollars for therapy to treat the anxiety and PTSD that Sherry claims she suffered from that kidnapping.

Nothing had happened for a while. Then it came another big reveal from the police. This morning, the FBI released these new suspect sketches. And it shows two Hispanic women, but with their faces covered up. It did seem odd that it took Sherry Papini almost a full year to come up with enough details for a sketch artist to work with.

Law enforcement seemed to react quickly to this and the manhunt was on. The tips came in and tips like, "I saw two Hispanic ladies at Walmart. They concerned me." Latino women were fearful that they might look like one of those people in the sketch. They wouldn't walk in pairs.

they wouldn't drive to work or family outings in an SUV. Around the same time, investigators also get back results from the crime lab that's been examining Sherry's clothing. And there's a DNA hit, exactly what they were hoping for, but the results are confusing. The DNA was of a male, and it would be somewhat incongruent with the allegations that she made that she was abducted by two Hispanic women. So that was, you know,

perplexing. Are you putting it mildly that finding a male DNA was perplexing? Yeah, I would say so. That was an issue for me and it was an issue for all the detectives. Still, this is a very big deal, a potential link to the kidnappers. The next step was to enter that DNA profile into the law enforcement database to see if this unknown guy is in the system. And we get a return that nothing matched with it.

And so now we're back to the drawing board. I assume you were also looking into Sherry's background.

Oh yeah. What did you find? There's some little bit of red flags there. Investigators talked to her first husband because Sherry had been married before. According to the police, he said, "Yeah, but you know, she was a real liar. She made up a lot of stories." And it wasn't just her ex-husband waving red flags. Police say many friends and relatives were less than supportive. Has anyone told you that she has a history of running away?

Another information revealed was that she had been talking to a man, not her husband. There was some infidelity issues in her background that even Keith had told us about. Issues with infidelity, issues with lying, and a history of running away. Yep. Oh yeah. There was definitely some dishonesty in the background. They went back to Sherry time and time again and found that often her stories were inconsistent.

She told different stories about why she had been branded. She said she was branded by her kidnappers because she tried to run away. Because her chain rattled the females branded her for punishment. But then she also said, oh no, I was branded by my kidnappers because my buyer, the person who was going to buy me, wanted me branded. Is this real? Is this not real? At any point, we could just say, yeah, this...

We're done with this. But then where's our due diligence? What if it really did happen? I was telling my staff, unless we have some very strong evidence to disprove her allegations, we need to continue forward with the investigation. It was hard for investigators to get past the sheer brutality of her injuries. Her kidnappers had branded her. And I have to tell you, when I heard that detail, ooh.

"Okay, so maybe some really horrible things really did happen to this woman." And I do recall that there's no way these were self-inflicted. We have an innate ability not to want to harm ourselves because it hurts. Years had passed by and really no new information had been released to the public. I honestly thought it would just fade away. And then in 2020, there is a massive break in this case, and it's all because of the DNA. And I got the phone call that we have a match.

Four years after Sherry's kidnapping in 2020, investigators decide they need to focus on finding the source of that male DNA found on Sherry's clothing.

Investigators asked permission of the courts to be able to run that DNA against all those DNA ancestry type websites where people contribute their own DNA, looking for familial DNA. They're hoping somebody in this guy's family had used one of those DNA websites. If they find a relative, they've got a lead. And it worked.

the familial DNA. This man has two sons. One of those sons used to date Sherry Papini. It came back to James Reyes, an ex-boyfriend. And you see James Reyes in a photo with Sherry from one of her social media posts. It's a massive break in the case. So the FBI field officer and myself went down to James' residence to do the confrontation. Hello, good morning. Good morning.

Obviously, he was a little reluctant. He was scared. We're here regarding Sherry Pepini. Okay. I'm just trying to figure out how you know her, when was the last time you talked to her. Well, me and Sherry dated back in 2002, and I haven't talked to her in years. There's information that I think you have about the abduction. Yeah, I mean, that's all I can get. All I know is what I read about it. We're just trying to understand if she was truly abducted.

Is she lying to everybody and got on 20/20 and is a liar? Are you willing to tell us what happened yesterday? And it's not until 53 minutes into this interview that they get Reyes to finally come clean. I didn't kidnap her, you know, I just friend in need asked me for help and that was that. What did she say? She was trying to get away from her husband. Your husband beats you, your husband raped you. I don't know what her deal was.

She made up stories. Keith was abusing her. She needed to get out of that relationship. As Sergeant Kyle Wallace chats up Reyes, his FBI colleague wanders the apartment. Is it okay if I look in that room? I'm curious if it's the same as she described it.

Ding, ding, ding, ding, ding. This apartment, this closet, and this bathroom look just like the place that Sherry says she was held captive. All the way down to the all thread. All thread, that's the screw, the metal pole that she described? Yeah, the metal pole and the screw. She said she was chained to that. Chained, yeah. The ex-boyfriend's version of what happened is radically different from what Sherry told the authorities happened.

He was duped by her, but he went along with it. I didn't know what the final plan was. Like, were we going to end up together? Was that her plan? But it's fair to say you were hoping maybe you could get together with her. Uh, no. No, I wasn't there yet.

She instructed James to get a rental car, leave his cell phone at his house, and drive the nine hours or so to get to Redding, California to pick her up. He gets her down to his apartment, gives Sherry the bedroom, and he sleeps on the couch. Sherry asked him to put up the plywood to block out the window.

I think James thought it was strange, but he was also just helping a friend. Sherry told the world that she had sat there, locked up, chained, miserable, abused. But Raya says the truth...

was that she voluntarily spent time alone reading the news about her own disappearance. She starts to act erratically according to him. She starts losing a lot of weight. He says she's not eating much. One day he came home from work and she had cut off her hair.

But then things get far more twisted. Remember all those terrible injuries covering Cheri's body? - How did all that stuff come about? - I mean, she did while she was here. I mean, she just hit herself with something, creative bruise or something. And I helped her. I mean, I didn't punch her or anything. - How'd you help her? - She just was just like, "Uh, bank a puck off my leg." So I shot a puck off her leg, lightly. - Reyes also says that Cheri slammed a hockey stick into her own face.

That's how she injured her nose? Yeah. Weird situation. I mean, I know, yeah, it's... And that's my life. Like, man, what the... So now he's describing a situation where he has an unhinged woman in his apartment. She's bleeding, bruised, burned, and scarred. Then she says to him, I need you to brand my back. I'm like, oh, this is probably gonna hurt. I mean, I don't... I've never done this. I can't even say I did a good job, you know what I mean? I just...

That's scary. Have you ever done that to someone? Yeah. It was so hot, it was red. What'd she do for the pain, if anything? She never really complained about a lot of pain. I want to say after this amount of time in law enforcement, nothing surprises me. But I was a little taken back. And then she was like, "I'm ready to go back to the kids." And she started missing her babies. And I'm like, "Of course." Everybody's got a plan until reality hits. It's like, "I'm ready to go." And it's like, Thanksgiving Day, I'm just like, "Seriously?"

Then before dawn on that now infamous Thanksgiving morning, James Reyes says he dropped Sherry off in a remote area. It's the greatest story ever of survival, right?

Except it never happened. It's a lie. It's a hoax. It's all made up. We come up with a plan to do an interview to confront her with this evidence. And when we come back, for the first time, 2020 takes you inside the interrogation room for that dramatic police confrontation. I didn't do anything.

Hi all, Kate Gibson here of The Bookcase with Kate and Charlie Gibson. This week we talked to Whoopi Goldberg about lots of things. But one of the things we talked to her about is how as a science fiction and graphic novel fan, she never saw herself on those screens or on those pages growing up. I mean, I didn't realize that part of me until I watched Star Trek. And I saw it because I love sci-fi.

And for some reason, it never occurred to me that I was missing until I was present. You're not going to want to miss this episode of The Bookcase from ABC News. In August of 2020, investigators asked Sherry and her husband to come in. Thank you for coming. We appreciate you taking the time to come talk to us. Thanks to the cooperation of that ex-boyfriend, James Reyes, investigators now believe they have solid proof that Sherry Papini's kidnapping was a hoax.

A plan was developed to confront her with this and get her reaction. Does she have any idea what's about to happen? Oh, no. So were you able to find, like, where that house is? Yes. What? Tell me more. Tell me more. Tell me more. We'll get to that.

She's confronted with pictures that look exactly like the places she says-- I mean, she described a crack in the tile in the bathroom. So this crack is in a different location than this crack, which is-- And they showed her a picture of that exact crack. And they say, does this look like, you know, the place that you were held captive? And she's like, kind of, but not exactly. It's pretty-- excuse my language-- it's pretty similar. But--

It's different. There was even a pole in the closet where she was staying. Do you remember this, Trash? I mean, yes. Keith right next to her, jumping up and down, saying it's the right one. So he thinks this is a break in the case. Oh, yeah, absolutely. He thinks they found the abductors. Yes. We talked to the people who live there. Sorry.

We found the house. We found who was involved. When the police finally drop the bomb, the mood changes and the body language changes. DNA came back, like I said, to a specific person. That specific person told us very specific things. So if we can talk with Keith or without Keith here, what would you like? Do you want to step out or do you want to stay? I'll say I want to stay.

And you can see on that video that the detectives step out to let them decide. You need to stop waiting in your room and tell me the truth now. And at this point, Sherry tells Keith that she doesn't want police to catch that captor who she claims helped her escape. I don't want them to find her. You're not listening to me. Tell me why. Because she saved my life and she's the reason why I get to hold my children every single day. The detectives go back in the room and pretty much lay this case out. The DNA that was on you.

belongs to James Rice. We talked to him. We've been on the polygraph. We talked to everybody around him. We have the rental agreements, phone rental, car rental agreements. The reason why you lost so much weight is because you stopped eating. The reason why the brand is because he went to the store, bought the branding tools and branded you.

I don't know.

No, there's no way it's James. There's no way. There's no way. The DNA doesn't lie. And she's like, no, no. You mean he's behind it? I just cannot believe that my ex-boyfriend is behind my kidnapping. Keith is in the room when they're identifying and talking about the ex-boyfriend who she was allegedly with that whole time. Yeah, and Keith just, he gets up and walks out. The fears of hell out of him are going to...

Were you surprised that she stuck to her guns even after you presented what, you know, appeared to be this incredibly compelling evidence? Not at all. She had spun this story for so long that she wasn't going to come off of it.

They tell her that they have proof of phone contact with her and James, and that sends her spinning off into another direction. It's my fault that I was flirting with other men. It was such a stupid thing to do. I love my husband. I love my children. That's understandable. Here's the deal, though, Sherry. Flirting with other men? Not a crime. Lying to me today? Yes, a crime.

She just went into her cocoon state where she just tried to control the interview by crying, putting her head in her hands, not answering questions. So either James picked her up... I didn't do anything wrong. I know you didn't do anything wrong. Right now, you're not telling the truth, which is doing something wrong. And she's begging police to protect the captor who she claims let her go. Did a female point a gun at you, yes or no? I am done speaking to you until I talk to a lawyer. I will not arrest her. I am...

Did you ever get an impression from Keith about he wanted to leave?

- He was so angry, so upset. - So upset, so emotional and just upset. - I don't know what the next stages of this are. That's why. - It's not us together, right? - On the shot.

Next, Keith Papini opening up about discovering his wife's story. That terrifying abduction in those 22 days in captivity? All of it made up. Sherry Papini, the California mother who is now admitting her story of being kidnapped was all a hoax. The amount of...

Fear that our family lived in that was fake is excruciating. Keith Papini in this case, if there's a victim, it's him. He's had to endure a lot of humiliation. We were brainwashed, gaslit, everything by Sherry. And where does his relationship with Sherry stand today? Has Sherry ever apologized to you or the children? In March of 2022, six years after Sherry Papini vanished while on an afternoon jog...

-Cheri Papini arrested on charges that she allegedly lied to federal agents about being kidnapped. -News breaks that the mother of two has been arrested. -Now being accused of making the whole thing up. -A stunning admission. Cheri Papini has now admitted it was all a hoax, will plead guilty to lying to federal agents about the case. -There's a plea deal. She's avoiding trial entirely. As part of this agreement, she has to admit, which she did in writing and through her attorney,

that she made the whole thing up. After Sherry pleads guilty, Keith files for divorce. He's asking for full custody. But there's still one final piece in this crazy puzzle. At her sentencing, Sherry gets 18 months in federal prison. She served just 10 months, and now she's free.

I sat down with Keith Papini nearly eight years after I first met him to hear how he says he was fooled by Sherry's lies for so long. So many people watching this would wonder, was his spidey sense going off? Didn't he notice that something was off? Of course I felt that way. There was always something that wasn't right. No one found me, and I want my husband. I want my husband.

When you first encountered her in the hospital, what was your first instinct? When I pulled back the curtain and I saw her and I saw the look in her eyes, I felt in that moment that she was lying. And it wasn't until I went to her to embrace her and I could just see the amount of injuries, bruises, burns to her body. And it was a shock to me. And I remember thinking how horrible of me to even think that she could have done this to herself.

I got the world's greatest husband. His name is Keith. I love you. The Papini story is now the subject of a three-part Hulu docuseries, Perfect Wife: The Mysterious Disappearance of Sherry Papini. Is there one thing that viewers can take away from this? I think the level of dedication that Sherry put into tricking everyone.

The hoax didn't just last the 22 days that she had disappeared. It lasted for years, six years. And that's what people don't realize. It was every single day. About three weeks before she got arrested and we were in the yard doing some light yard work and she was doing some heavy breathing, kind of exaggerated. And I was kind of calling her out on it. Like, why are you acting like you're breathing that hard? And she immediately said,

went into the hole, but you don't know what it's like after the 22 days. This is five plus years later. And I just wanted a day where we don't talk about it. And that is when she just looked right at me, looked in my soul and was like, I have to live with the fact that you never found me. And it did. It crushed me. I mean, she knows how to get to people and that got to me and it just made me feel like I failed.

It just kind of goes to show you that everything is calculated. I mean, essentially, you were the target of one of the biggest hoaxes perpetrated on America in years, and certainly one of the most memorable ones. Yeah, I mean, she took advantage of everybody's kindness. So many people were hurt.

There's understandably resentment in the Reading Hispanic community since Sherri's infamous description of the two Latina kidnappers. When Sherri Papini was busted, we were overjoyed and relieved. There are no dangerous Hispanic Latina women here. And there's the Smith family, still to this very day searching for one of their own daughters. It just kind of makes a mockery out of anyone who's really lost a person.

It's kind of a slap in the face. So why do you think that she essentially concocted this hoax, disappeared, beat herself to a pulp for 22 days, and then continued to lie about it for years? I think she wanted me to be her knight in shining armor and run to her. She wanted to plan a fake kidnapping, but in her version, I was supposed to find her.

This morning, new exclusive images of Sherry Papini back in court, now appearing before a judge as part of her divorce proceedings. Keith and Sherry are now divorced but still working on a custody agreement for their children. Tyler, now 11, and Violet, now 9. She apologized in court, but has Sherry ever apologized to you or the children? No, never. She has no remorse that I have ever witnessed or seen.

We reached out to Sherry Papini for a comment, but have not heard back. Do you think you'll ever be able to get out from under the shadow of the Sherry Papini hoax? I think it's gonna always be there, but no, we do want to move past it. I do want to provide my children an amazing childhood, but I think it'll always be there.

We should point out tonight that as part of her guilty plea, Sherry Papini was ordered to pay more than $300,000 in restitution. But the majority of that money has yet to be paid back. For more on this story, you can catch the new Hulu series, Perfect Wife, The Mysterious Disappearance of Sherry Papini. It's streaming right now. That's our program for tonight. Thanks so much for watching. I'm Debra Roberts. And I'm David Muir from all of us here at 2020 and ABC News. Good night.

Hi all, Kate Gibson here of The Bookcase with Kate and Charlie Gibson. This week we talked to Whoopi Goldberg about lots of things. But one of the things we talked to her about is how as a science fiction and graphic novel fan, she never saw herself on those screens or on those pages growing up. I mean, I didn't realize that part of me until I watched Star Trek. And I saw it because I love sci-fi.

And for some reason, it never occurred to me that I was missing until I was present. You're not going to want to miss this episode of The Bookcase from ABC News.