JRE MMA Show #158 with Tank Abbott
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The joe rogan experience.

Was IT have a baby good to see?

IT likewise, has been a long road for both us.

IT has been a long road. Man, I think I first met you in nineteen .

ninety seven. I don't know the date I I remember meeting you officially are in my memory in newer leans or somewhere around there um when I was sitting like in an auditorium and you came in and SAT down next to me and at that time people used to bother me all the time and so I was getting some fresh air and um away from everyone and you came up and SAT down I was in my head as like, oh no I just want some peace and you rolled up and you were totally cool I was like a that guys cool we have a good session rapping .

yeah remember first meeting? You know, when you talk about like the early days of the u. Fc, you are one of the real original legends of MMA.

I mean, you were one of the very first guys, and you were one of the very first guys. First one, you were in the very first guys. You've not the first to wear gloves, which I always thought was very smart. I know vita, I think was one of the first. Now who was the very first?

Was you? I don't know. The people out there and the, uh, internet world say this melton bowing guy.

He was a striker, boxer, tenner guy in the early uses. I did not get the idea from him at all. And who was the other guy with .

the one glove? He just died recently.

I forgot .

his name. He was back .

in the days with the .

friend James son our jimerson yes yeah and fred edition that's .

red edition and hair old Howard, not those guys. And um at the time I had just get out of jail for speeding up the cops on and they cannot. He used his position to um his dad um make things go the way for the prosecution, even though he deserved to get beat up and I obliged him but I was going back and forth from a halfway house to work from the guy that got me into the show and we stopped off at a um like a dig sporting goods store, big box sport english store like that. I don't think IT was dick, but I was something like that.

They were bad gloves and I I put him on and I go these would be perfect, but they had a post in them so you couldn't really wrestle with them. And I was like, hm, I could take the post out. I ended up cutting and off, and I was just clear plastic thick tube that you can hold onto. So I got rid of that, and I got, these are perfect. And and they think they were harber gloves and ah I knew because i've been in hundred to street fight altercations that's where I came from although i've Russell since I was eight years old but used to beat people up on the .

street that they .

deserved absolutely. There's not guy out there that we didn't want to do the same thing to me. I was just Better at IT.

Um so I knew my hands would get hurt. And i'm like you can fight three times in one night without your hands getting busted up. So I cut those out and I got, these are perfect. I get restless. Them, as I said, I wrestled my whole life and they were perfect.

Did you have hand wraps on? No, no, I just the gloves. Ah, yeah, to wrap your risk.

anything? No, nothing. And what was the law back? And were the rules, rather were the rules. And for you were a lot of wrestling choose you a lot of the nuts back down and your first five, you a lot of pull hair hit and nuts.

you could do anything there wasn't there til I came along and anyways uh they um you just couldn't I can't even tell you what you couldn't do but that you couldn't bite and you couldn't gage there was were the only two rules I think .

this shock right now, that was me really .

he started I enter deed fish OK and um so at the fighters meeting and they have these meetings with all the fighters and they all sit in there and I guess think they're bad as but I guess they are in their own world. But so they all sit around and big job and cartney was up there explaining the rules and I think he is having trouble since there wasn't any um so at the end of that I asked and I said I had the glass with me and I say, can I wear these and in his big following goofy voice because a huf you anna wear on go ahead head thinking I was some kind of fool in fact I was thinking everybody elsewhere fools they're really been in a fighting your hands get .

up so smart that and look and when you knocked out, I was at john.

Too much mature .

john when you knocked him out of like, seat like this, you can still generate in saying power. But you don't hurt your hands.

absolutely. And the, I didn't hurt my hands, although at the end of that fight, I not that fight, but we fought three times of one night. I think I I bust IT up my hand.

I didn't break IT, but I bust IT up where had to go to the hospital and get an x ray and I got to go. I didn't want to go because I was a kid. And like, no one sends me the hospital, even myself, you know, like my bus that pans now i'll be alright.

But my father talked me in the going. I went there there all my opponents were all stretched out. I'm saying, well, you know what? I'm just passed and through so the x trade and said I was alright and went back to the cocktail party has a fun.

Did you have any like injuries during your career?

Oh sure. I mean when I thought when I need ne surgery against feroza, um I couldn't run. I can do anything and uh I ended up a taking the fight. I told him I didn't want to fight and then um back in those days, they had ways of stacking the cards against you and uh so the honor of the show at that time says, hey, show up. You got a small G, R. You have a box or your first fight so that's not gonna be a big deal and I guess then you got a little guy like a two hundred pound guy that was from shamrock camp.

a balan yeah ah .

and you can fight him him and he's nothing. It's like, uh you know two hundred pounds is firmer and like a red door and I like, okay talking into realizing he's just trying to sell his show and get IT over and I like, yeah yeah well, i'm never wanted say no to a fight and um so I said, okay, you talk me into us a but I could then I couldn't run I could not do anything and like jog one time around the track for one hundred I couldn't do IT so I go and take uh the boxer make short work of him and because boxing is good, if you're gna box and stand up in a ring, but you're not gonna go anywhere in a five just with boxing as a skill IT might help you a throw a punch and that kind of thing.

But if your main plan of attack is boxing, you're gna get taken down and you can't box from your back. Um so anyways, back to the show. I take short work of him and oh my god, right? So I got this old ninety pounder under ninety pounder and make sure work of him.

And I think I was supposed to fight mark common at that time and as I H well well just will see, he's tougher, not get taken down and was as throw uh punches and he's not really um at that time very skilled on his feet. I had at least a fighters chance at the whole deal. And so you know you have to use like dressing rooms that are screen off and there is a an opponent are not an opponent. Um alter.

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Big guy, go and crazy. Making all this noise sounds like an an elephant run around in a cage. I'm going with the hell that I do and I go is not even fighting, is just the an alternate well, IT turns out IT comes for us to go in with bow ander.

And what happens? Oh, he pulls out. Why he pulls out? Oh, he is. So he couldn't make IT. And I, I H, I, I just fell off the turn of truck. And uh, next thing I know, i'm fighting this three hundred pound plus guy who's all jacked up on god's knows well and I got a so I went out there and this is at the advent of of referees and I I don't care about whether losing never have.

I'm always down for the fight and the battle of fighting and um getting bloody sweet getting punched and punching people man, that's what it's all about for me and so I go, i'll get in there and we banged out and they had three rafts and they gave him the fight. I've had people said, if you really watch IT you want if I don't care, they they suckered me in with, uh, little guy and then they throw in one hundred, three hundred fifty pound dude ended up kind of ruining the show. Common didn't have anybody to fight, so he went out with animal and did like a wrestling expedition exhibition.

And a IT was like, why did you do that? You didn't have to pull sherr x guy out. IT was behind the scenes kind of things that that were all prevalent at that point in time.

Yeah, there was a lot of Sunny .

ian in the earlier early days.

but was so loosely constructed. You know, people have to realize, like if you're looking at the usc now, you're looking at, you know, W M E wed u fc, I can take money fuge pocket special effects with screens. I was amazing, the sounds amazing professionals back then.

I mean, u fc twelve was the first one that I did, which was Scott for oso deb. And we did IT in doth in alabama. A and IT was like a high school auditorium or something that wasn't a very big place.

I the name of yeah was that that was when .

they didn't .

interview with me, and I was supposed to be at a different show somewhere. And they got they got cancelled. So they put IT up and those them IT was .

supposed to be buffo. But I got banned from new york, right? So last minute we had all flight to.

all right, so I I was actually on the plane going to do them and are not dozen, but to buffalo, right? And they said, hey, there's been a change of plan to go to go to do them so I went to do them and I was sit in the like two story hotel, not really a hotel, but want like a motel type c and I looked out across the parking lot. There was a bar there.

So went to hell, why not ended up walk across the street drinking at the bar with this crazy old country with my guy, old school duties like a peanut farmer, something like that. We got blasted. He gets, come on, i'll take you to the arena and i'm like, okay, so we get in the old pickup truck and he turns the key and that sounds like a draft and I got at hi Billy hay, man, or whatever, drive in this thing and we drive to the arena.

I'm like, no, no, i'm supposed to do an interview. Ends up parking on the island and grassy island and drove up to curb. I stumbled in there and David D, I is like, oh my god, what's gna happen next? They got banned. And then I shared that out of my mind, and I do. I think there might be a clip at me or drunks and stuff.

I, those clips.

sure.

How would with your first F, C, fight, thirty years old? And did you have any competitive fights of restful matches? Did you do an amateur facts anything?

Well um but you .

kind of wasn't around that.

I I know there is not real fighting. You only did in the street. And um back in those days I had Russell and then I I A sixth birthday um I was hoping to go on I had one year reston in junior college and um a dumb drunk friend of mine drove into a light pole on my birthday and so my teeth got all knocked out and IT also put a gash right on knees my knee and manage my knee on my left.

Ky, and um so my wrestling, I came back like hallway maybe a third of the way into the season and I just could I didn't have enough time to get whatever it's all in meaning spiritless. And so I didn't perform in the way I wanted to perform my software ear. I I did not continue.

Now, when was interested in me? I so the whole time as a Young man, I wanted a box. And my mother said, absolutely not.

Not A C, T, E. And everybody blocks is as stupid, and you're not going to do that. And i'm mike, uh, man, so I did anything to do. I was eighteen years old and I said on the box and the same guy that you expect when mike tyson was on fire and he was the bad as man, the planet as a Young man I go not my planet and so you know he would obviously kill me in boxing, but there's not a boxing ring on every corner and so I was all fired up with that so same guy that I worked for at the um clothing company where the cutting so type thing was for medical clothing.

He lived that par sam was a bisbee away and he started boxing and we were at up, you know, just like what you would think going to a boxing gym and learning how to box. And I got a man and I want a box and he said, well, come on up and then you'll all introduce you to my trainer maybe, you know, anyways, that gets the ball started rolling basically. So went up to send us a baseball and there's a boxing gym just outside of their a task there are or something like that.

And I went to the gym and it's like, you see these reals where these guys, you learn a skill like boxing, and then you somebody that comes in that a complete novice has no clue of what's going on. And they they take advantage of these people. Oh, you think you will tell you on a box? Well, you box.

So that was the vibe when I went into the box in gym and I go, hey, yeah, I went a box. sure. Do with you? sure? Oh, yes. So they go, well, if you want to spar the us, nick, in, you want to spare and like, yes, and that what in here for and that way you do and there like, go, no, you got, you have to learn.

And I like, okay, so they got, like, all kind of like chocolate aha he wants a spar and um so they waiting got a mouth piece from a local like um what do you call those stores um sporting good store and comes back and they returned to melt and coffee and all I kinds stuff and so. Disguise got a name, very big name, from the seventies and boxing. And I are going to talk about his family as a big name.

And I don't OK. This is no point in IT. Yes, I could. But I was trained with this guy, and he did this guy. I have a video tape and on that kind of stuff.

So it's not like making up stories and the antithesis of trying to get myself over. I tried to just now, you know, so I get in there and I go and there all I got, this is going to be a great. And this guy is a heavy weight, and he had, like, eight professional fights.

And I believe they thought they were going to use his name in postman, get him to money somehow. And so like, okay, I go. If I like that, i've put boxing clothes on and hit the bag and played around and spired with people.

But oh, my OK, what we're going to do, we're going to do IT. yeah. And I I not to live is not out of them. I yeah, I just fuck IT on this whatever yes .

yeah but I said.

okay, I wasn't sparing like skillfully boxing. I was like, let's go and we went and you already .

had a bunch street fights yeah and you knew how to hit things yeah and power is something new that have you don't have and you've always had crazy power that's so if someone underestimates you in some of them live this guy so they let their guard down.

get a little little relax. Think they're just going to take off and I was like, right, you'll see what's going happen and I said, this isn't can be a street fight. I knocked live in daylight I said, have a video tape and um that guy was filming at the guy from the clothing store anyways A A support actually yeah but yeah and so he's in the back on, oh my god, oh my god.

And I I enlighten that. You know, I didn't need to know the skill of boxing to take out somebody that had a fresh and fight in boxing. I am pretty much handed IT to.

So what did you do? You did boxed that.

You just clinched. Got close. Let go.

And so did you always you just always had scale with your hands. So like, I mean, that's pretty impressive for eight, eight fights and professional boxer.

I I put my chin down and I don't tell stories. I guys said, if you you want to get a light detector to and a certified guy, I will .

pick IT to me. I know you. I've known you forever, so just take anybody else tank says IT, as IT is always, you always have, even when you lost to rely, that guy fucked me up. That guy kicked my ass. You were said, you got me, lester, by the lead singer from queen.

The .

Martin slap .

in me with that .

feature.

He was bit slapping me.

You had the best attitude about both winning and losing. If you lost, you were very self deprecating. You always had fun with things. Yes.

not the end of the world.

You were a great guy to be around. Man, because I was a god down party. Yeah, mark of you remember? But we got him into a couple of times.

There was a few different times of different hotels. Yes, where you not got drink, you with your whole crew, there are all bunch of psychos. IT was just like being around, like a lot of pit balls, like jacked up pit bulls, like ready to go.

But I was fun. man. You always brought a party.

You were having a good fuck in time. You have a good fuck in time fighting you. And that's what made you a legend.

And like you of you know, everybody thought that the skilled martial artist was always gona beat the fighter, right? But there was a, you were killed, marsh laws. But you are kind of more of a fighter just to do to fox people up. And for you, this just be going out there knocking people out. You became the biggest star, the u fc, even without winning IT, right? You know, you mean you be a lot of good guys, but your power and your attitude, like when IT went out who do the little fucking days like everybody, because IT was everybody thought martial's was supposed to be bow and sense spirituality and meditating in the .

river and you are out there get a wild mattoo was metaphorically marsh arts in my head see all these people run around in in martial arts is martial arts not? Get me wrong, IT works, it's a scale. But IT fighting is A I yeah but I I playing this phrase, I believe, anyway, uh, fighters, fortitude.

And that is where becomes fighting be does not is not a skill that you learn and you become tough choice. Gracy is not tough because he knows judge to, he's a tough man. And all these guys if fight in the USA are tough men. Not not because they know skill. You like these people are you get an ARM bar.

Who cares you? Anybody that sings it's not a fighter is your you're posy Frankly, I you sit around and eye do this and I can that doesn't matter is how tough you are, your fighters fortitude when IT, when someone's got a thummalapally yes, sock at are taking a big bite out of your back and how you react and what you do from that, that's what fighters fortitude is not like. Oh, well, his guy is stuck in my eye.

Maybe I could ARM bar, put him in a triangle that doesn't save you, does the fighting is emotional, it's not about skill. It's what is inside your head, the heart you have, and what you need to do to get things done to beat the upon IT. Hopefully that making the same thing you're thinking.

And that is, i'm gna get this point where I can kill this person, or let or kill him. But basically fighting is to a point where in in the street anyways, and there, everybody that I beat up was trying to do the same thing to me in the street. They were trying to beat me up and get to the point where they can make the decision of in me and that's the whole point of a street fight and its not about all I got Better skilled than you.

That's the difference between the street fighter and somebody that goes to the gym and learns how to throw a correct punch or, uh, a submission hole that's gonna save your ass. You can learn those things. You can't be tough by learning those things. You can become tougher by learning those things. And and if you're a tough guy and you learn skills that makes you tougher like choice gracy he's a tough man but that guys got skills up the yang yang and judge to that makes me even tougher but he has .

the mental fortitude to keep IT together in the chaos ah and some people, even very skillful people for some reason, don't have that. There's moments we've all seen where you get this guy who's like, especially a lot of guys for gym heroes. There's a bunch of guys that in the jam they looks sensational.

They look, this guy is is gonna a world champy keeping an item you watch inspiring. You watch him hit and meet you like this guys insane. And then they thought they they may be reach like thirty percent of their potential when they fight. They could see the panic in them and things .

they don't have IT in here.

Yeah, they don't have something. The thing that some guys have like a mac halloween has that he'll fight to the end to the end. There's zero quit.

The quit is not in there. You can go searching around for forever. You're never going to find IT. And then the some guys, you even though they're really talented, you can get to a point where they'll break and they'll just try to survive. And this a difference.

And it's the great ones all like john Jones, like so many these guys, like they find a way to win and they never give up no matter how chaotic IT gets. I want to have bad. They're losing.

They find a way .

hundred percent eight words in the fifth around against tomorrow. Usman, perfect example is just you take IT down and man handle and he finally land. I had kick in the fifth around. He becomes a hero .

and and it's all fighters for the T. M. About being a tough guy. You can see IT .

in that fight if you seen that usman Leonard, fuck in. amazing. Because his coach, his coach is sensational and his coach is screaming.

He don't let him borrow your son from english in england. And the rocky music is planning is a clip of the online. You get goose mps every time.

Every time I see IT, every time I say I get those pumps. It's like that thing. That is the difference between a fighter and just someone who skilled.

That was something that you, I think, introduced more than anybody in the early days of the sport. This is, you want, see, because this is so fucking in. Good man, please. 我 觉得。

The .

music yeah.

but it's part of fun thing.

Yeah, that is .

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If you put IT to usc six, that was the awakening of legal choke because rest he had judged and then restarting came along and started uh handing IT to the submission judge you guys and um then U S C. Six came along and they came up with the good team. Now if you they I always got to give a team on me twice, and I fought myself out of IT.

I don't have never time that whatever. But I was a while, I was losing consciousness. I was seeing black, but I got, I pulled myself out. In fact, you'd brought up the fish x when I finally, the first time he got in and I pulled my head out and he was lay in there, like what you're going to do now and then I reached down and fish and start banging in his head on the floor.

Would you look back to yourself then?

Does that even seem like you know why?

Of course, IT is you. But I think the Young having you smashing guys is also just the one around, correct? Yes, seventeen and around. Yeah.

there's no around was IT .

uh did they have a time living on any .

of the fights? No and I want I want that fight of big genomic court me when a stuck his uh his melon in between us and break as a you know that ah you were talking about how they uh, fix the fights in everything. He he broke this fight up that there were no rules not supposed to to do lucky's breaking in yourself.

Why do you do that? Why did they do that? Yeah, where people booing?

Yeah, that was all john ma mccarney he, why did he break us up?

I don't know, like what were the .

rules back and his family, usually all I had to do is give him a track, uh, starting gun, and I stand in a boom. And that's all he needed to do.

He just had to start the fight and this restart was just completely because of him. A Carter.

He corrupt and is a create his idea of what he thinks fighting is. And he's a full on oleg OS. A mission guy, is all into technique.

I don't know this. He's never said that to me, but he's all in the skill and everything else. He has no respect for fighters, fortitude or you .

don't think he does. I think he does. Well, I mean, I think you have like a personal dispute with him, but I like big john .

and I you might like him, but he, uh, leveraged his made up, uh, persona, a big john to get me kicked out of the show. Him in his wife, they got me literally kicked out of the show.

They kicked .

out the u fc, yeah, real. And what year was this? The very early.

Why do they want to get you kicked out?

Because he does not like me the cup and he doesn't like the fact that I am probably in his eyes a fug. But the point is he he has a been as mine. He's never liked me you know he was a judge to student, uh, before he started in the thing they they for the Graces they didn't have a raf so aren't day because what about that big guy?

Big john and big john was a cop in everything and he did, uh, background checks on me before I got into the usc like, oh yeah, now the sky really is got a record. He's been is got i've been a rain at least at least seven times for being people up and shit was hit the fan he was getting IT was getting bigger and more and more you're going to and troubles pretty soon then got had a great attorney and um he he was a guy that could point out the truth and people would see that in the D A. We go, okay, community service.

I'd go do that at the boxing. Gm, so anyway, so john checked into IT because now this guy really is uh street fighting legend like tank murdoch and um obviously the guy's dad was a was a cup and that I underlying IT doesn't matter but he did not like the fact that I came along after the gracy because he was like a study for gracie to in the whole nine yard when I came along I kind of said, no, I fighting is emotional and it's not a little it's not a skills match. It's what you're have in your head and he obviously doesn't have anything and his but so and porter rio, um I used to go around to do jos and go in there after I crews around drinking in a twelve pack.

In my van, and we pull up to dodges and walk in anger, who's anyone fight? And nobody did. And so I lost my trying to thought on that, oh, this is that okay? So when I was, I was working out with weight, and I and I didn't.

I was in a strong day for me, so I got, you have to know when I say not not left in today. So I felt combination and I needed to go do something. I said, let's go check this.

You just to place out. They had fliers at the westminster boxing gym where I was boxing after I left that Baker's field thing. So we go in there and all the other come food and wing chang and all that stuff. Not no one ever wanted to fight me.

And I go let's go check out the judges think see if it's real or not this guy was to be a world champion in all this and um since since it's out there are saying who was but was alone goes and um so he supposed to be some world champion this and that at this time, we're totally Green to have really respect for G G. To anything like that. And as with paul, her and adv who are very complishment restlessness and I go let's go check that out, i'm left in.

Let's go to see what if this stuff is for real. So we go into the gitta thing, and I was a little bit of a dry, we get in there and I say, hey, when we want to roll around. So we would check this stuff out and on their portrait, demonstrate on, demonstrates on and the my what the fuck is this anyways?

So one of the guys goes in the back, I guess they put cameras up in these little mr boxes that one way mirror and so any gets up there and um he he's a little guy and so and take him very long to tap him out would like an armed staying and then paul, who is um is all american from nebraska resta bigger guy, hundred nine years he gets in there and am I gone what that he's gone on because they're lasting and lasting and he's on his back and at that time is like are earning your back for stupid yeah totally ignorant of what was going on. And i'm my whole I ended up tap. I am out and oh my god wow.

He made short work of eddy and he tapped out paul and and respect for paul for his restless abilities and where gone and trained and wrestled for and as I holy smoke, well, I am rather large and very powerful and uh how long goes is not and um so I go okay although they were starting on their needs and I like whatever I get on and and I I had a because medical uh, place the cutting, so place I had a scrub on. So i'm i'm on top of of any grabs like a nurse's club because they don't ripper anything like that and he does like an x on his thing and he starts choking me and look at and it's kind of roll my eyes like, really like I went like that, like fish on both sides of his face, you know. And as I go, okay.

And so we rolled around, roll around, rolled around, and then he finally got to an armed lock. And like I said, I was, I was doing curls with like a hundred twenty pound dumbbell and stuff like that. And so I I picked them up.

basically. He's like a foot off of the map. And I raised my right hand up and made a fly.

You want me to fall down on his eyes, got huge. Is moon? No, no, no, no, no, no. And am I okay? So I let him down and let you go.

And he was like, like, I had enough of this big guy here and um so um we laugh and whatever goes on and somebody's had like, who's that guy I was a narcissist way I got him in a mock I would I would use them for a IT does not matter yeah there would have been a whole bunch of bad for him again. slam. yeah.

So for real, I don't know paul was fighting in that show. Well, that show IT was David versus goliath there. how? That's right.

That's right. Did you fight big danny?

Yeah, yeah. And big daddy had a video tape of him so he knew exactly what to do with that high crush that was all stage, not stage, but prepare. yeah.

And so a one goes, comes up afterwards over. This is all the way a full circle back to john. So alone goals comes up after pogey elbow.

Or my big john dan, stop. And who knows? I know, but anyways, so he starts mouth in all we must ahead, too much alcohol or something. And I, who do you think you talking to? And you know you like, really you are going to go there.

okay? So he had like him and all his friends were behind so I popped him and was going after and me and I were frightened the whole contingency of brazilian fighters in the audience and um then we go to the back and an old school war and like no incense, the hospital and on tell paul fact that you're not going to the hospital you don't do that and he's like, huh and uh there was a doctor ister go and jam a cartney and his uh wife elane who is a Karen I think her name should be Karen and a lane my cartney anyways uh they come SHE comes running up and starts point in her finger in my face and kill you you just hyper ably in the moment charged type thing. They try to make a huge move out of that and then also .

that how you kick down.

And then john, like telling bob, I am gonna quit and lanes gonna quit and if if you don't kick him out, that's why didn't go to the show in mind you, I was the personality of the whole show at that time. And I think they went to detroit or something like that after that words and I was like, worst hit where is is the show and they bobs like we got fixes. And so um somehow a letter came up of apology to um their leverage of they were onna quit. I'm like, who cares if they quit? He is a he's a referee he pulls the trigger on a gun and affects fight um by breaking people up and and giving people changes and everything else is easily corrupt person and um who cares and but I guess bob was leaning into the fact like o he's developed a personality for themselves so anyways, we're going to have this letter made and will send IT to them a courtney and then they can be suit and then i'll be allowed to come back and that was all around the same time with the frozen fight with my nee messed up and bar being the sliter that he is.

But don't you think it's also much as possible, Jerry, both and got her because he fought too. He fought to fight first.

It's possible. But I A inspiring.

I see where you would feel that way. And I think in the early days, one of things that White does a really good job about is like, lets a talk, have conversations with people, sit people down, talk and explain. This is great.

This is not so great. This is what we think we could do with you. Like, no, back that I was chaos, yes, I was chaos. And a referee today they're allowed to stand people up. But back then .

I understand completely what you're saying. Yeah, but back in that those days, those guys set up a lot of stuff.

What they set up .

IT won't come to me right off.

but I okay, I want your put on spot. So you think that they had people that they wanted to win, so they made things work a particular way.

Well like the the don fri fight um him fighting is the people commit is not as friend who mark hall that I went out and did the job for fry IT .

looks like he did no, he did. Yeah looks like you when he was yeah.

he did and they fought before too yeah he just one out there fell down. And then why, you know, regardless of how easy my fight before is mentally, it's a whole different ball wax.

It's it's a different bar wax. One guy go through war .

and one guy goes through a really easy and rap.

especially if you had a real close fight, your legs got beat up. There's, there's a lot of things that can happen. One guy and knock a guy.

The Turners are so crazy, because one guy is almost like it's Better than not fighting, because he landed one punch, knocks the guy out, like all my god already, one I want to find, I know, performing well. I didn't get hurt at all and now loose my brains loose. And then you could go through three rounds and hell with some fuck and psychopath where you're barely surviving. Bolt, you and you get to the final round and you like, or whatever IT was back in was one round, but you get to the final end of IT. You like I to do this one more time with the guy who's fresh.

right?

yeah. And if you can read that and if you can if you want to, you can set a break up. I'm not actually .

that you do same thing with the Anthony mercer guy that for all leg before me a league went out oh gue went out and choked out his first opponent with the eighteen choked real fast and then he fought um Anthony mercies that wings and right before the fight they wink, yeah you know i'm talking about yeah obvious do you want me to fall down and who I fought the two biggest guys in ever fought in the U. S. C.

Four hundred pounds eye, six foot five, whatever, three hundred or two hundred and eighty, whatever size you want to make real fights. Not some guide is out there laying down. Go on. Okay.

with the early days, IT was so, IT was so loose and he never knew when I was gonna go away because he was already getting suspended from table cable kicked IT off. You only get IT off direct TV back.

Yeah, a joke was ma?

yeah. Ja, mccain, john mccain. E allegedly was doing something for bud light. So he was working with bud light. And blood light wanted boxing. It's kind of the whole the whole world was conspiring to keep M M. A from flashing .

bright IT was .

a real big deal they would disparage in which is a funny cooking. This is a funny video. Bob ara m. Talk about about .

IT that rolled IT. I was laughing about that too.

It's amazing. It's amazing because he's such an old school guy, right? We .

have immediately I say boxing.

He's just silly because of boxing. awesome. I love boxing. Doesn't mean, doesn't mean the f is not Better.

Oh, no, it's a skill.

Yeah, yeah. Boxing is an amazing skill. It's an amazing skill and it's a huge part of a man.

Mean, if you can throw a punch, you really you can win. But but it's a different thing. You guys in, it's a game of, it's a fighting game. Where's an amaze of fight? Well, boxing can be a fight too, but it's so the rules are so specific, so limited.

When I went up box that a task everything I came back here and um went to west minter boxing club, I believe IT is anyways. Um I had I was fortunate I walked in and tire al bigs was boxing and. His trainer make your heart I walked up and as a White, heavy weight every back in those days I gow all trading you, all trading you, and i'm okay.

He didn't have time for me. So I was like, okay. And slowly learning boxing. And his underlying was uncharged me and um I go when when we get to fight in his like, no, you don't just fight, you got to learn box. Like not me, i'm going to fight.

He goes, well, there's a show in six weeks in here and I go that perfect, we'll do that then you can just do that and I like, no, I can do that and so this is also one video um I felt some guy i'd been boxing for like three years and I knocked the stuffing out of him mouth peace when flying was and at that time the guy that ran the gym was named no I cruise and he was the trainer for Carlos parliament old school mexican uh six for two guy but uh knew his boxing skills like no tomorrow and he went up to mac and he said, hey, that guys got something you can train you you you guys can be in here forever but I want a train that guy in maxo, I don't have time for him and tire real because we will split him, you know, whatever from that point on. After that first fight, I started a rolling with, no, I not rolling, but boxing with them. And h he's the one that got me sit down on my punches and all mexican style hard punches inside to the body of the cards, all that kind of stuff.

Then I used that he's a swing, this big old other bags on their hanging from chains and was like an old warehouse that had been there probably since then, early sixties. He had swing the bag and and come back. And I would just turn through in the whole. Jim was shaken and his eyes get out big. No, IT was a great guy.

You ever wonder what would have happened if you went pursuit? Just professional .

boxing ah.

This a big White heavy way would not out power like you that could have been very marketable.

That was the whole idea. Never all enter that and I remember because I would show up to the uh boxing gym with black eyes and cuts on my face after every weekend pretty much and in fact, uh, when are my trilogy? Uh, street wire as ways to call on me on the street wire and um what what do you do now I know if only if only you you don't understand if they only had a fighting show with real fighting, not this boxing stuff, an english look at me and shake as a big smile and shake his head like you are crazy and um IT happened. IT was awesome.

How did you find out about IT?

Um well, I was driving I I used to work in a liquor store and I was going to college and supplied my habit. But so I I was looking through the playboys. I saw an advertisement for ultimate fighting. I don't know what IT was. One with the tooth .

fell out.

Does the first one? yeah. And so I had up, you know, was living with two other guys, pirated cable.

He climbed at the top one. And so I invited my dad over and said, amy, you get checked this ultimate. Finally, I got, I don't know if it's real or not.

My, I suspect it's not. And I think it's probably just an offshoot of professional. Recently, kay, I come on over.

So he came over and were sit in the area on during computers, watching the tube in. He came out with a, with a grass skirt type thing. And on my R. C. And I don't know who I was, just whatever .

drug.

Yeah, he kicked in the way. This is real.

It's real.

Yeah, I can't believe that, man, this is gonna be so.

So how did you want contact? How do you .

want to get in a beating up this .

cops .

on right? And I was got work released from that probation. I did like, like three weeks in jail in a on a farm and then I went to like a Price apartment thing to work and came back.

And that's when my friends, my friend, who worked for his dad at the medical clothing company because, hey, you know that guy, chemo that works at the bar my you got ta know me where's like the gene thing and and he and i'm like, yes, because you know a joe on, I knew just some from the boxing Jimmy goss, they fought in that show and I like, yeah, I know. Why is I fighting in that show? Because he would always, I had quite the reputation back in those days. He had come fine me in lining on mister abbott .

this .

way in and and hey, thanks people. You know that as much I knew of him, like when he was told me, you know, that guy, I know my, anyway, so was chemo and he guys that this guy came, if that guys in, why can you be that I make IT happen and he'd started call art dating on the phone, and arts like, yeah, yeah, yeah. And then he goes, no, you don't understand, this guy is the real deal from the streets, man, everybody knows who is and and is.

Yeah, yeah. We hear this story all the time. Then he's on not not from this guy. And then there was back in the day when had like a table like this with the phone and speaker phone on IT.

And so he could tell that guy, because I sit in the back, you tell my god, some guy is like six, three hundred pounds at once to fight him. And we'll see you next week. At this time he was raining, so we ended up going into art davy's office and turns right around the corner.

I heard from the grey academy, I guess they got, and IT was raining. And I like a is back in the days when they had Brown paper bags for grocery bags. So I put my high top basketball shoes in air, and like stretchy clothes that you would wear, and IT all folded up, walked in, sitting here like, we are now talking and is like, okay, this is before they came up with the tank idea.

My, so now i'm a restaurant. So he goes, okay, what we get back here and go go back away in the bag I said, well, you said yet somebody was like, six, eight, three hundred pounds, one of the fight and guess what I got yeah on the phone he said that and he goes, you fight somebody and I got a jail and he goes. You're cry why you you're just crazy like now down for time, you want to do IT anything.

I guy, I just took his head. We walked out and like I said, see that. Do we go over the point of gone where I got kicked out before even I got in?

No, we didn't talk about that. So so they found out about your record before you got in what you did something?

yes. okay. Now this is, I don't know. I have never talked about this publicly. Don't think. So this is why I told the central casting mafia I wanted be guy that they kick me out. This is why they kick me out.

So they gave me a one sense paper that says, David abbott gonna be in the next show, whatever. And I didn't realize that I had to be six because the Grace is owned. According to my calculations, the first five shows before bob took over .

bob mars for six and .

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Last night train to thought for a second, it'll come back so I gave me a piece paper and he says, you're going to be in the show, not five, but six. And i'm like, oh, man, and you know, you're Young man and patience is like, I can't wait that long and I need like tomorrow, you know, right? And so whatever so I got, okay, work with IT.

Well, you can train and so. A wrestler that um was you know wrestling every knows the world and college wrestling and this guy worked for A A volleyball company, clothing company called clubs sports where and they used to sponsor volleyball players and so eddy knew him. I think they used to live together. Somebody lived with him that knew him and he called up and said, hey, dates gona be in the u fc show and so he goes, okay and he goes, well, um you guys want to sponsor I am I about anything?

Sponsor what whatever and goes let me ask my boss, I think because yes sure know there was no is yeah I will will give some clothes aware and all that kind of stuff and think as well he wanted airline ticket to go back and watch the show, think that was usc five and charlie. And so IT sense IT sends me, I take IT and like, wow, this is our kid in my head. I was a kid, but not chronologically.

I was forever college student. And so i'm flying in there. And like a man, this is so cool. These people to do this for me, they gave me like bags full, closed, was like, wow, even socks and everything like that. I was like, crazy no, that's that's where I wasn't that time life.

And so we get there and have a big club bag and and they go, yeah, just try to get on T. V. And just so we can see our stuff.

I get IT, surely. And I walk in and I was like a the lobby of a hotel, like a two story hotel. But I was a nicer, like a sweet kind of hotel, wasn't dumpy, and everybody in the lobby had their desk out. And at that time I was martial arts and IT was kong food Frank over there and a whom ever G G two jeff over?

I'm just like in their walking around, like they're Stephen, a goal with their chip on their shoulder and their chest out and thinking, i'm like what the hack is there and are you getting me and look like a sweat meat for? Maria wants to be? I, I, I don't know.

And all these people are walking around like one is IT before U F, C, even you know, people knew like, wow, I can remember some guys. I, I, I was just like, are you kidding me? This is like in saying these people are like.

Just playing the role. And so I just walked on by and I think like ww your room and I went to the room and I wow like my first time, i'm really being somewhere by myself and i'm fine with being by myself. But and what's that help you do? So there was A U.

F. C. Office in the hotel. So that's my first running with current. My cartney and I walked in there and she's, I hear you when you want. I like, wow, that is like, hi and whatever and day of the guy that that that are set IT up from the clothing company or the medical company said, all you're going to be all set.

You're gona back stage passes and I go good because I want to know what I want to do when I delay of the land, you know so she's like, oh yeah, whatever i'm like, okay, whatever the bad day something and so I when you do so, I walk down the lobby and I say, hi man, is there a bar around here? Ross, the street where I got perfect? So I walk over there, an airport is party and at the barn, and every boy's like, all, what do you hear for?

I go, you know, the usc thing, they have an to call or something like that, oh yeah, that fighting thing. Are you a fighter? And i'm like going on.

And that technically really a fighter I go, well, i'm not fighting in this show but I got a peaceful aper saying, you know, contracts say that i'm going to be in the next one so um I can you know, you party with me. I I like to have a good time. So IT doesn't take long before the whole bars rock in a roll or help me.

And we're having everybody's like women tank and I, my god, h ringing, you know, like kay and there are yeah and I go, yeah wu. And so we parted IT up at a good time. and.

so. End up a going back with these guys to this like a sweet hotel. So there was like a room, like a living room, and then you had your bedroom teaching.

And where party at IT up. And IT doesn't take long before security comes in. That time there any people are complaining about you guys.

God, I love swing off the couch, do. And also to crazy stuff. And okay, well, turns out mire, which is right across the hallway, and I think he called.

So that wasn't good thing. And i'm like, OK keep IT down. I don't know that bob was art daily, was the, was the the guy and so he was reporting himself as, so I go, whatever.

And so turn IT down. So go back the next day and that all starts up all over again. And oh yeah, let's go.

They're going help you out. We're going on. We're going on to the the fight.

Yeah, yeah, let's go. So we end up. I guy, I got these back stage passes and stuff, so I don't know. I can sit with you guys. So they got tickets in there in a little cubicle block of seats just upon the first rail.

You're sitting there and I go OK and I go, hey, there's an art guy I go, hey, art, please run around like he's done king and a toxic to and I aren't you get my passes and stuff like that and he's looking at me, giving me like the cold shoulder like not even knowing he sees me but I go, shit, I don't want to talk to that. I and am I come lazy, be an invasive and finally, I called them over and I started put two and two together. Like you said, i'm kind of cynical conspiracy y there he would walk around the hotel like he was kingham like i'm the man taking and right when I went in to get tickets in lane in them are all in there.

He's giving these two Young girls these last minutes and gave me the quick eye, like what the hell he look at that like, uh, you know, sketchy, he looked and when I got to the show, when they get to, just gave me paper tickets and those two girls were running around with the laminate in the office. So I went to into together, he gave my laminate trying to get over with the girls and just gave me some tickets. So now this at a alcohol, a little conspiracy thoughts going on in my head and go on that little warm. I go, oh, I know, let's go on on and so I go, I go.

So he was supposed to get laminate.

right? Those girls, the grube .

OK .

ring rs kind .

of .

thing anyways. So, um hi, i'm like, hey, R R R finally walked. Oh go. What the fuck do I you give me this paper tickets? I got can't see anything.

I I just walk around and in the back of my mind, I wanted to get their clothes on camera was gonna like a camel walked by as a kid anyways. Are Young, are ignorant, whatever unwise. And so um i'm walking in his I don't rug and walks off and his little steaming and so that goes down and the first lights go down.

And one of the girls is like a group of maybe ten people hey tank you know in the southern and thanks. I'll know you know, I was expecting something else. So this is kind of boring, to be honest with you.

And i'm like, like I was part of the show, you know and i'm like going, yeah I understand. I think I think Grace are oh, or somebody fought, they were doing submission and was boring. And and so I go, meter is something I promise you, I promise you is not going to be anything like this, is not going to be lying on the ground rosing around.

And I fight. I promise you that you have to believe me. And SHE says, well, I hope so because this, you know, can get into my accident.

I also, because this is boring and i'm like, not, not. I mean, anything like that when I get in there, trust me. And so that was the town that was said, and more bears.

I was drinking beer at that time. Maybe I was drink some boat. And but so we get back after the show, the bar, and I remembered, I brays like sitting around talking about IT.

I give, you know, and I went, hey, you know what? I forgot there's a cocktail party going on and I got what I yeah, there's a cocktail party going. My my guy told me about IT like I had back, back passes in the yours I go.

But there's a cocktail party where there. Anyways, so I go, let's go, and they go, well, learn, how are you going to get in. So I went over there. I had an anchorage by that time, believe in or not, I was even find. And we walked in and, you know, typical bank quite type stuff with a silver wear in a road, roast beef and roles and cockles.

So I was drinking and drinking and drinking, and didn't take long before I started telling them that they were a bunch of polices and that they don't know how to fly around the health, go on way to get in their. And jim Brown, the football player, was an announcer then. And I think he came up in a father ly way, like, hey, 嘿， calm down.

Please tell me what to calm down. I'll tell you what, calm down. And I have any at that time. And so things went on like that, ended up taking jim Browns when.

He call those things like a derby head of yeah but was that when they called? I don't like I I noted, yeah the word escapes me, right? buried. He had a buried aware all the time and and he took IT off, said, I take IT off his head and what start walking off and I got about five yards of way and he's all here. Hey, here I man, and I turned around and I through IT out.

Am I falling out like a frisby and a hidden in his chest? They caught IT and I looked at me angrily, angrily, and I 袜子。 Joking around, having fun at all. And that might just be the the top, the Cherry on top. But the whole behavior was that the 后 we laughed because I was closing down and I had my fill of food and we went back to my room， and we started the party up and and then I laughed, came back and they never called us back or anything.

And I was like going, hey man, what the health go on and is all, what did you do there? And I, my, me, god, no and shake in his head and then that's when are called him and said, hey, that guy is a many as he's not not only allowed in to fight the show, he's not allowed to be at the show. No F N way I guy, he's crazy. And I remember my friend hanging the phone up and looking at me and slowly to shaking and had like you blew IT.

So how to get back in?

I told you from the guy from the the bar.

okay, so that so they discount red, all the things that happened the past.

So that guy made a phone call.

Well, is the smart thing to do. I mean, regardless of someone's mania.

it's mania export. You just get like have Better security. Okay, the lead up into a meeting, that guy that got me in the professional restless guy, okay, so I get this this phone call you out bom, right? And we go to this bar. And it's not a nice the bar that Normal people don't go to. And so and we're in there and there's I told paul and edit that I don't want to go there on this guy.

I don't I don't is trouble and I was a well oil and primed machine for beat and I like and I had anger issues from being kicked out of my dream and um so they talk me into and I got, okay, listen, anybody bothers me? You guys have to take a take care business and no problem and we were supposed to be in a rustling room training and finding. But the wind gut knocked out of our sales, my sale, but they were in there for me.

And so we're in there. And it's A C, D, place and city. Things happen. This girl started in with pool.

Paul disables her and he falls on the ground, disables while a foot swept because he was clad. It's a dirty minus in bad place anyways. So so that paul didn't beat up her boyfriend.

I came up behind them and got double undershoot underneath them from behind and was pulling him back, and all of a suddenly hear this log crack and a light flash across my eyes. And what the fuck happened? You know, I was like, sound like the dub box machine got broke in other glass on IT.

The hell happened, man. And I let go of paul and turn back, and I turn around. There's a guy with a broken pool view standing there.

And obviously I put two and two together, put two into together, and his eyes were like, oh, that didn't go away. I plan because he's still standing here. And I don't know, because I was not silly, but I heard that he got her really bad. And that's why the bar tender or bar owner wanted to extort money from me from having a tape of me beating up those guys. He's like, yeah, that guy came into my bar, I was killed somebody and I have an .

on video tape I see .

and a long round about back to the story got IT.

yeah. So IT was a whole lot of fights and a whole lot of cash. When when you are competing, were you like what kind of training where you do if you're drinking that much?

Oh, man, see, you know, I would. I really like to address this. And every thinks people don't think I train I I ran a marathon. You think that you just get up something and I go run a marathon.

but we didn't train right? Like you look at you, you were very strong. You obviously, you know, even though you're a big guy, your what? Not bad, you definitely doing something.

You try, try. Yeah, yeah. no. You try, try fighting three times on that day.

The first U. S. C. Six, I believe I could be any man, any man on earth that day. And I was in my prime that day. The only reason I had lost is because a big job of cartney and his a breaking up the fight. He shouted, never broke that fight.

Did they break? So there was no rule at all about standing people up?

No, none.

I personally believe enough. I've broken this down, too many repeat, but i'm gone anyway. I don't think they should understand people up. Then a person to take you down, person can take you down to keep you down. Tough shirt, even if it's boring, like the whole idea.

like what's real. Take IT away from me about my carney, uh, affecting fight. The first fight they had. I don't quote me on this story, but I believe I was boss rutten and Kevin randomness. That was the first fight they had with judges. John Murphy got in there and broke that fight up twice so bus could get back up and and come back and find dom with the .

rules back to and a stand ups.

I, I, I don't know, I don't think so.

That was an interesting.

I think I was .

the first fight. Anybody ever one off their back.

really, but didn't know. He shall know one. If you watch F, I and I just washed IT recently, Kevin renomme kicked his as be his eyes severely, and john broke IT up twice just so he could, uh, to give bars, uh, uh, uh, an advantage, a chance you back up his feet.

And boss is nothing more than charismatic. What pen? Cris pan? cris? fake.

Listen to kin sherri, he said, is fake. Well, well worth. There was best thing was prety determined. As can said.

I think there is some real fights, and I think is the true all japan there some real fights, and there's some fixed fights, like when bas pot fu naki watched that fight, he beat the fuck out of knocking.

That was a real fight yeah I I don't know if .

you see no one but that is not think he beats the fuck out. If not, you mean it's one of the worst beatings anybodies ever taken in panies as bus had figured out that are slapping to throw palms like punches .

you know well, i'm not going .

to get to a lot .

of people because .

i'm not yeah like bus .

run was a bad man I think .

bus room o shocker .

that down a skills by and what have you I did see the soccer was a very good .

fighter and that was not, let me know, he was a skillful fight, but that was a brutal fight.

But IT was that pancrates.

Now there was uf. c. fc. There was this first .

fight in the u. fc. And he had two fights.

I think two.

And in my opinion, I just watched IT he lost irani so he's .

yet did you get more than to fight thing I can think of .

a third I think I think he might defy um the indian .

yes but that was rubin Billy out right and but that wasn't in um the u fc. That was another organization that was like a later .

fight right now. I thought that room in my everyday, that was my last fight. I came off my hotel bed and walked into the article did you have a .

fight with Scott for us? I want a backyard that fight really great. He played that five once on the podcast. But like, this is so crazy. These guys are so wild, they just fight, not a law.

Yeah, now they, I, they called me up and I go, yeah, I love fighter guy again. And and A, I flew out there and when they wanted to do in an empty strip um club.

how was this organized like .

how is that name and just came .

up with some money yeah and said he you guys to fight on long well.

he wanted to do IT in an an andon strip club and I told him I got due he's like, I am having trouble. I can get arrested yes, I value my freedom and he's like, yeah, I go off at anywhere because my backyard here yeah, might be backyard and so we went there and I don't know what version you said. He put put them um uh edited version out of IT. But um he ended up going to the hospital again. I sent to the hospital the first time and he went again the second time because of his big mouth.

Well you were punched on the top and he was like cheering, like he was having a good time, kind of crazy fight to watch yeah.

I don't caring.

IT was something like he was saying.

Wu, like, this is great to act yeah.

Like he's enjoy IT enjoying getting beat up.

right? yeah.

And how many fights do you think you had total in all of m ma? And in street fights in your life you had to guess.

I have guest, you know what that's like asking well, chAmber in about how many one night stand he said, you know like .

ten thousand .

yeah so like, you know not ten thousand. I, I, I kind of doubled around before I got bored and thinking like, wow, you know, last couple of years, at least two times a week at least and you know so that's what i'm saying and that .

two types of week is so if you looked at a chart, the average person, how many three fights that you in the two types of week? That is the small lest percentage .

of the population that's alive. I was into IT.

When did you enjoy so much about IT? Because here's the thing you you're not a dumb guy. Your years when someone can get to a conversation with the union to start talking about things, you're a very bright guy ah but you like that yeah just like your favorite thing.

Well, you know I broke down and. Recently, not really recently, but in towards that after my surgery and all these kind of things, you sit around and talk to yourself all day. Um I can realized, you know there's like a class on the bull's bully that kind of thing.

Um I used to set up. Textbook narcy that come in and. Display their narcisse around people like ever meet somebody that that you like, oh no, you those two can be around each other. Well, I was the kind of guy and i've never up more of an impact than people know but um I would my ears would pick up and my eyes would open up when I saw a narcy st that IT would try to a be little put people down and I would kind of like being my brothers five years older than me and I kind of maybe you know is very athletic. I confirm like a football that is a football coach that kind and so maybe a deep rooted and I was resented of him being older and able to push me around or what have you um and so when I see these artists sts, and I believe, why would that I be doing that for? Why like you getting yourself over and so I would put myself in their vicinity and soon or or later, if you look at me, like even today, when I walk down the street, people give me the, I like, yeah you want some and I and just really oh no yeah how you look at at them you don't want to know like .

do you have yeah and I look at .

you back yeah I just smile on and it's like, it's not I are you kidding me? I feel like Billy jack, you know, right like you don't know, you're get into same same back in the day and I would go in in in, you know, I wrested one hundred and twenty pounds I was in, uh, like I was when I fighting once I knew I was fighting.

I just say everything and just guys strong as big as I possibly could um so sooner later and I got in and even to slow down there and soon talking to me one of those kind of back and for and like I say um fighting the means like walking the dogs and I don't okay. We can go there if you want to and like I said, i've i've been a lot of fights and talk about uh, fighters for the tired you know someone biting my back are sticking the time in my ice sock as like, alright, just enjoy your time right now because you're gna pay the Price. And the more you beat people up in the street and in life, the more traded and you get used to IT.

I can remember, like maybe in high school or something, early high school, you punched him, but you, a black eyes, is a holy man. wow. That is like, you want me to put my hands on you and you're gonna pay the Price after specially nowadays, with my health being so fragile.

Um there is a different kind of a beating. People know. As a Youngster, I used to go to all open wrestling rooms all the time. And I remember this old, or your coach, and, you know, sun, human body can take a lot of beat pain, a lot of beating. And I was, I still remembered red to this day. And i'm like a fifteen nine now and he is kind of resonated him, bringing in my ears like when you think you you don't think you can hit him again. And the more they are a smart as and more than big for a beating hi, given what they deserve.

did you always feel that like .

you and you had like .

an ethic for, like when you would get .

in fight to when you absolutely .

only get fights with dush bags?

Well, yeah, but they they think they act like h nothing makes more upset. Now, he doesn't have so much older now but like you're gonna tell me what to do are talk down to me that I I used to go, oh, really are. We're going there. There's a lot .

of people out there.

And as a everybody fixit tough.

There's a lot people out there there just blot and they just they talk crazy because they think that people going to get scared. You see at all the time online, you can watch one hundred videos of them doing IT to the wrong person, and it's all the time due to the wrong person and that you see the .

joe shelling one no is why .

the Grace of all time. Joe shilling, who's the man is a world champing kick box or fuck in great guy. Joe chilling is a nice guy. Just start show with anybody. He's walking through a bar and this is really aggressive guy who's drunk and he's talking a lot of shed.

And joe was walk and I am the guy moves and he put his hand and shoulders and he, excuse me, he passed his by and the guy talk, shoot to him as he passed his by. And joe turns around and looks at him, and apparently the guy, a bit of noxious all night job, seen to be interrogated ous all night. And joe looks at him and says, what the fact did do you say? And they got flinches at them.

And joe just put just two shots and one as is on the way down and out. What video? It's a classic. This guy.

this guy actually .

wound up suing him and losing the guy sued him and lost and force to watched joe passes m and then the guy says something. He turns around, let you flinches. Yeah, wrong guy. Those videos.

people like those videos, that one, the wrong guy. A hundreds of people that i've come across.

Karma, you like karma warrior going out to the bar, knocked down dish backs.

And but back in the day before I became tank, oh my god. Yeah, all the time I like, wow, i've never acted that way. I have only because I would see them acting that way, I would go and over do what they were doing just to go the do you .

ever wonder what a IT would be like if you or if you were born a different time line and you lived in today's uf. C, do you ever think about IT like when you see how big IT is now and you see like the different .

rules you know, these these kids and whatever um come yeah the kids .

us yeah exactly.

They think they put a new spin on the wheel and wheels been around for a long time. And um you don't understand that you just because you learn the leg lock doesn't make you tough and there are some more brezil out there theyll take take a time.

Yeah there certainly. Um but it's just it's a different thing now it's a different thing with the five rounds, with the world temperature of a different .

thing for I think IT would .

be very the problem is people wouldn't enjoy the entertainment values as much as people get tired. You can really fight for fifteen minutes straight. You're going to get exhausted, but you can fight for fifteen minutes if you take a break every five minutes oh.

is there's not not a problem. I don't think with round like but when when somebody you like say my cartney gets to pick and choose when to break up the fight .

yeah I I don't like that. I like, I don't like that at all.

ruptures.

I like what i'm doing. Comment this part. Break this up because i'm getting bored. But I really do believe that. I mean, I think of the things they're allowed to break them up now it's part of the rule set in activity, but I don't think that should even be in the rules. I I, I also have another controversial opinion. I think if you take guy down and you're on top of them at the end of the first round in your ground pounding, I think the sector round starts not exactly position. They have cameras, is super easy to do plate.

Why japan.

they should do IT. They should do that here. Why should you be allowed to start standing up, which is a hugely advantaged position for a striker hugely, and you didn't earn, you did not earn the stand up. But if you got taken down and you get controlled, you never escape that. And you might not ever escape IT.

If IT wasn't for you being stood up and you starting for the next round, who knows? So not only do you get to get up, but you get a whole minute to recover and then you started in an advantage position for yourself. That's not it's it's imbaLanced.

It's in baLanced. If a guy is uh, grappling is a huge part of fighting and if you're not a good restful er and you're not a good grapplings and some guy can take you down and hold you down for the whole fight, that's the fight. That's how should be played out.

That's reality. The reality. You never earned a stand up. If you can't figure out a way to sweep that guy, you can't figure out a way to getting under and get back up to your feet, then you stay down. And that should be what fighting is, even if it's boring, because at least this way, it's realistic.

No, absolutely. Like mark, common ground and pound.

I also think that if you're not touching the cage, so as you not touching the cage needs to head to a ground opponent, I don't think you should be allowed a turtle. I think I don't think you should be allowed to just turtle and a guy sprawled on you and he's got A A hold of your like a head and ARM and he's on top. Why would he knee you in the head? Of course you wouldn't you in the head.

That's that's a very effective technique that would end fights that should be legal. As long as you're not touching the cage where you're not stuck somewhere, you can move, you've got a fuck and move, you can stay there. You can't allow that I to holding that position.

If he does, it's just as legitimate is getting the tight clinch in landing of standing up. It's the same thing. So yeah, well, it's you can't be that you're not safe there. Also touching the ground and avoiding needs to the face bullshit.

You can do that like they should be a new in the face like you, you should not touch the ground because if you touch the ground, your faces wide open, you should be like this. Or you should figure out a way to get out there or is going to win or you get the best position you got to we get IT. There's too many rules that make IT less about a fight and more about like winning with the rule set.

Like the touching the ground thing is so crazy, the guys have a guy clinched up against the cage. And if the guy touches the ground, you can't name in the face that's bananas. It's literally bananas.

The guy standing up chooses to touch the ground so that he doesn't getting need in the face. That's crazy playing the game. Part of the rules that doesn't lend itself to realistic fighting. It's not fighting.

That's not like an accurate assessment of what would happen in real fight if you leave like some of the most effective things other than, of course, I gorgeous and nut shots and should but if you leave that stuff out, then you're leaving out like really effective techniques. That would definitely work and probably would entitle y especially needs to the head to be grounded opponent, right? Twelve, the six elbows.

what? How the fuck is that still in there? I think they're taking that out now, right? Is that out now? They were just informed me either either close to taking that out.

Now know that came from. They were worried that people break bricks and ice on E S P. N.

So they banned the twelve to six. So it's still all these years later, twenty, twenty four, it's still banned. It's fucking crazy.

They vote to remove nice. Okay, so this is in january. So is IT taken to is IT into a fact .

already? Is that IT like what country wide broadwell .

de if it's A B C, I think that I think IT is. I think IT is because, uh hundred cambell, just want to tell me about IT either hammer or crag cry bar, sorry, but do you know the guys run the? Uf, now you ever go?

I haven't been, i've been on a medical. Hs, yeah.

you about because you they told you were gonna rag yourself to death, and they were right.

I did that. You came close. No.

you came close and you came back.

Yes.

what happened?

Well, you saw what I used to do.

I just get, no, no. I mean, what happened .

physically to you? Like .

what?

And I died five times on the table.

Holy shit, did you both at the same time?

No, they did. The kidney, are the liver first and want to make sure take hold. And then months later, they did the kidney.

How old we were in this .

was gonna six years ago, OK. And but I had so fifty three yeah um I had a five strokes two thousand times and I struggle I I was a for a long time really, really slow like I get the strokes yeah IT was all on the table um and so yeah was IT was a rough so do you have to take medication .

to make sure that the your bodies reject the organs?

Yes, IT does that fuck with .

your immune system? Well.

that is about the right. But I mean.

does that fuck with you? Like, do you get cold? I will always wonder.

No but you know what i'm happened is like almost died from that too was two days away, according to the doctor um I guy a round room infection oh, that was they think hanging in around for a long time. And once I got on and I rejection medicine, um I didn't I didn't have any uh resistance .

right .

so started flourishing and they didn't know what was going on and I was like, no, you don't understand i'm dying and not literally from pain and um they're like gone and we don't know what's wrong with you anyways, I can take anymore so ended up done thirty more days this is after while of being home and I was actually go to the gym crawling around on the rustling man doing that kind of stuff.

Turns out um the doctor say me, doctor total, he say me twice, two different surgery type things but um he um did a biopsy of my balls and stuff and found that I had round room and I was just like you you know where you got this from? I I I have some guesses and um so where do you get running? Well, I don't know. I went to close to read a few times, but um I don't know.

Like a tropical warm yeah .

my round warm is like an intensional thing. okay. So it's probably from something .

new eight summer, right? right. And so now it's just overrunning .

your body yeah slowly. And I I was in the hospital for my after I did like four months the first time. At the second time, I went to the merit can take him or twice and I was there for thirty days and more thing and IT was very painful.

So developed A A chant of, pain is temporary. Pain is temporary. Oh my god, for a month I finally did a and cut me up and did my balls and found that I had around where and two days of medicine.

and I was Better. Wow.

I imagine people dying from that mass, not being nice.

I talk this do wants to tell me that like ninety percent of people that live in tropical climates, ninety percent have some sort .

of parasites in their body. Well, possible. And and.

Want to hear a study one.

This is what going to say is he really.

Okay because I didn't say um um so when we went to japan first time, I was there with a brazilian fighter and he was eating a lot of food, a lot of and aix bum, all them are like cheese. He seems free that I hate, but I like cool. And I go all as a anger, right, as you do.

And so I said, why are you so much? Yeah, I on the gas. What's gone on? Oh my god, my god.

No, no. It's the warm, the warm. Oh my god.

What's the hell you talking about some type of portuguese thing and he was in front of everybody. And when I in the hospital, David zs. Came in.

So I quite a bit and he's like you, don't you remember that time he's is saying, why, why eating so much the warm, the warm because it's a round warm. I wow, I never thought of that could be possible. We were always eating dinners with all the japanese people on anything. Well.

you could definitely get warmth from food. And if you get tape worms around, worms like, that's a mother fucker.

yeah well almost kill me. The infectious disease doctor came in with this badge and everything ah you're down to like couple days left cheese's cries.

especially with the medication you are on right, the worms are flourishing so you get rid of that, you give you medication. And now, um I have to get a kidney transplant after .

the liver transport .

that was easy deliver. One was the bad one.

I did. I did over over one hundred and twenty days and I see you, wow.

what is that like?

You know, I was lying in there and my life told me, obviously, that they were seeing. It's time for you to start thinking about taking him off, unplugging me. It's that it's getting to that time, he said, is like the surgical ICU floor, like they could do surgery right there in your room that earn and that see the sign I D Better hill anyways.

She's like the doctor, dr. total. He came at turn and said, hey, it's time for you to really start thinking about, does he want to live like this? I guess he told me I was just laying there with a tRicky atomy with my eyes open and nothing moving. And are she's there?

Anyway, so David, I came here and they're gone. IT was, he says, i'm gonna away for the weekend. I'll be back monday and so they were talking about IT on holding my hands.

And David ix said, have you ever seen awake ing? I seen IT he goes IT was like, awaken ing he, because you had her hand and I guess you just like your eyes came open and you started shaking your hands up and down. And so they didn't unplugged me. I'm still here.

Wow, was that close? And you died five times. Do you have any weird memories of that?

You know, when you have some roses? Went to the doctor hospital, and I made IT out by my house and then got a special, the doctor digest, whatever. G. I. doctor. So he put me in touch with, see the sign that have a sponsor, someone sponsor you to be allowed into the organ ah system, the transplant and so I went there and was like, you know, meetings and association type, you know we're onna, take you on and then they say, O, K, we'll see in two weeks you cannot drink anymore.

Do not drink you can't do IT that even little bit nothing have done not part and so on my after a year oh my god man, what the hell well um till the last time I went there and go room and like bed type chairs and also like denis chairs and sit there and they walk out and they take your blood and then that SHE walked in the nurses in the doctor assistance and all of said they get this panic look on their face and mind you, i've been doing this week a year, you you're in a half and i've met with with the doctors and the god doctor said to me, because I are do surgery on you but not until you lose weight. Gave me like fifty pounds and lose I lost like seventy five, you know so they knew I was serious and about the home. And so. There is like, i'm sitting there in the chair I am right now and usually it's kind of, hey, how you don't.

right? But there are much more serious.

very serious. Look at my wife ling, and what's gone on here. I know SHE basically died with me during the whole time. What's gone on this? Something not right. And she's like, I go, go, go out there, see what's gone on and SHE comes back and guess where are not going home? What he taking about SHE says, um your kidneys aren't working and my okay and.

Anyways, so I like looking at like, what fuck, you know, what's going on and was like the most alone i've ever felt in my life. Thanks that for her and the doctor and the everybody are not magical. I with me not doing anything and a gurney comes in and they throw me on a journey.

I am like, hey, hey, what what's gone on now? Like, didn't hear you. I don't see you is become like a log on main a century void, then your non existent.

And I remember being pushed out of the transplant centers across the street, by the hallway underneath tunnel. I have, think, remember laying there. And the for a recent light bove me, look like freeway lane light allies. And I just remember lying that just gone. Oh, man, this is, this is the real deal you're dying and for consciously IT was like, I died.

I was like, no one talk to me, no one heard me, no one said, except for my wife bouncing back and for trying to, hey, hey, what's this? I'll be alright, alright, right? And i'm like just being pushed down this hallway to the hospital.

And I remember getting pushed into this room with all these machines. Looks like the movies. And am I wow.

And I remember is laying on the bed there. and. Just gone.

H, oh, oh, I am my wife. Like, no, like converting me. And I like, wow. And to me, that's when I died. And then I woke up with ice in my wife there. But I guess I was in that room for six days on the machines and they're waiting for a transport to come in.

And one came in and told my wife, we got one and she's like, oh, thank god, you know, and we're going to do surgery well, turned out somebody else was waiting for one also and they were a Better match. And my wife said, there are a Better match. She's an Angel.

SHE said, let them have IT so the doctor came back in SHE said, like six hours later and he said, alright, we're gonna go to surgery. He is all, I think you are messed up, even though you shouldn't pay him that I think you messed up because we gave that other liver to somebody out now lever, okay, kidney is a letter. My kidney stopped working, okay, so they put me on dialysis, I guess, and waited for six days.

And so SHE, she's all know that they gave the liver to the other person that was a Better fit. And he's, well, this never happens, but we got another one, because never happen, never. And so they did me, and I was in a catatonic stay for weeks and weeks and weeks.

And then they were talking about unplugging me, the dials, machines, all that kind of stuff and um because I will go away for the weekend, this is obviously can be to me from my way take the weekend and I think about what you wanted do because you know this could be the best he gets right here and SHE said the whole floor knew that that was talk happened and SHE said, everybody that he would walk down the floor with their mood change said as total darkness IT was like, sh'd walked down the hall and a very easy, hi Sally. Are you don't and he said they were just like a porter, right? And then I X came in and he said they were both holding my hands. I broke up.

And how is that houses experience change your perspective about this live? No is almost one away.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Now i'm a totally different person completely.

You'll tel me when I .

first thought today, yeah, I used to be like. I hate to say that narcissist, I going to conquer the world and now you can't mess with me. And now IT doesn't matter.

I didn't care. You have that good for you. I'm glad for you.

You know, sometimes maybe before all of this at being, uh, man, like I do that. Oh, man, I got to do that. I Better, and then I can do that. I now it's like, good for you. Man, go, go on more down.

way Better way in a face with life. absolutely. I wish more people could learn that lesson.

I take take the hard way for me. But it's so unfortunate .

that so many people go around angry at other people who's lives yeah thinking that they deserve with the other person has in such a way of time.

One hundred person .

is so bad for you too. You Carrying around just a bunch of extra bullshit for no reason.

and you doing IT to yourself. yes. And you know, I with with dinner, I A as a dark, dark, dark place. And just there there is some medical things about that when you get ammonia in your blood and IT makes you crazy like they are like a warning thing around my room. Like watch after this guy, my guy, I guess I kicked a physical therapy and the chest and on the stuff I was ripped my cordite my but it's called in severability.

哼 and um I would just just like to my poor wife， to people that i've known for years, i've just talk in crazy nonsense like almost like alzheimer's on and they they say they will tell my wife like it's got ammonia in his blood and his liver doesn't work and it's poison and his brain and he doesn't know what he's doing. I I believe that I laugh according to my wife because he would listen to me. I fun. I leave dying a choice my messages .

and wait .

yeah it's not funny, but really it's funny if you realize how sick I was, I thought I was gonna a die. I mean, yeah, you know, I I was live in the rock and roll lifestyle and is a joke around rock. And rollers could even hang with me once I got in A W, C, W.

Yeah, those guys live rock in our lifestyle. It's like an athletic rock and roll lifestyle. And I, as you can imagine, push to the floor peddle of the medal man I was getting down was there .

every time we will, realizing that if I keep going on. When was that? When that I started feeling that I.

I uses some um well, when I was wrestling, I mean, I was the rock and roll life style like you would fly on a jet 蹦蹦蹦， go for eight day loop, fly home, do your laundry, do you think? And that kept me from really taken off crazy once w cw. Got sold and my contract was still valid and I had I had money coming in and a whole bunch of time.

So um living laws, veggies with the cage where he's the agent and is a they gets fired from that show or not show but the town agency and he's like, hah ben thomson and he's hah, what am I going to do now a vagus I I was been sAnderson after W C, W. Was done. And I wasn't live in every week to go somewhere new.

I was like, why am I not going to do now? I guess I just drink myself to death. Not consciously.

but but that's what you are done.

I I was getting down.

So that's when the liver started fAiling.

No, my liver started fAiling. Um when I went back um to the U F C, that's when I held on, when I pull physical feet.

But when data call me to come back for that um to do my come back thing, i'm like, sure and I kinga shape shape but he flew me out to lani city, I believe and he goes OK need you to be down here tomorrow we're going to shoot this only the yards and I pride myself on being responsible and doing what i'm supposed to do with being there on time among of those kind of people and um so I go to wake up and this is like i'm coming back kind of thing. And I was supposed to be at the shoot. I could not, I was like, could not get a bed.

I was that sick and I must missed the whole show, like I just out of just crawling to get there. And I got there half way through the show. In his agent is person that worked form m came up to ming us. Oh, here you are.

Where where you? I'm gone. And I just didn't feel very good. I was, I was awful, like notis sick all the time.

I think that's when your liver was starting to fail.

Yeah there their stages. And um that kind of is called a compensated liver, d compensated liver IT was a compensated liver is like all the things where your liver stops working and you get sicker and sicker。 And that's when you start turning yellow, they would pump my stomach or my cavity, pull out like a couple two leader things all the time it's just poisoned, is run into your body and and um I can set oppoa thy go into your brain.

I was, I was, I was a complete crazy like, you know, bsn understand, is the guy and living lasberg making look like A A, uh, Cindy gardener. I was that A, I wasn't sane. I can look back and just go.

have you thought of i've written a book?

I have written a book, and i'm glad you brought that up and thank you.

Is IT out?

Yes, it's A A trilogy. I A nine hundred page trilogy, really. yeah.

Did you bring IT?

Did you bring the? Yes, I did in my my bag over there, three of the first ones called barbro's ller and it's about when uh three hundred plus pages along about how the um mid eighties, early nineties, how people used to be and help there is a really graphic um um fights in IT and um who um some people think it's an other biography but it's written as a novel.

okay. Um that's good.

We do. yes. And the main characters water fox and walter fox is how walter fox goes through his life beaming people up at bars and all that and ends up fighting in a show called nhb and they call him crazy fox. And um at how walter fog, through all these trials and tribulations, ends up as crazy fox at the end of IT, a trilogy, nine hundred pages long, plus this myself, yes, page, every single page I have a goes, rather anything.

just sit from .

of the laptop.

ride up by hand.

I scribed IT out on spiral. No book, bunch of them. Yeah, I hunt impacted the whole nine hundred plus pages, three books.

Why do .

you just learn how type one hundred rest?

thomson? Never really learn how type rest. Thomson was hunting in packing when he was writing like fear loading a loss vega is .

i'm telling you this, especially if you are fight pen it's called before there are rules and um it's awesome I am pumping myself but if you want to know how real fighter in my eyes .

before there were rules.

yes that's the third book. The second book is cage fighter and the first book is barrowful. And IT goes pretty much the whole what we've been discussing IT goes through all of those things.

Where can people get these books?

And there are on amazon, okay? And it's um some people think it's not biography. Like I said, no exactly folks. Was paul deny?

Yeah exactly fiction folks.

And there's like the there's A A fighting uh promoter matchmaker and his name is a big part shady. And of that of that show the N H B show the referees name is visual duncan. And he's a little a little guy where the big eagle and um so you could draw parallels but I don't tell you how to think but of uh but it's actually how walter fox got all way to the bus. Cy the everything I discussed, um it's how alter fox ended up to becoming crazy.

Fuck, have you done an audio book for this? Yes, as I did you read IT.

I listen to IT 啊。 Okay.

somebody else read IT.

Someone is, no, it's a yeah, no. It's on .

A I oh, A I did.

Yeah, it's prety good. I worried about the inflection, right? IT came out really good.

Now they're very sophistic ted. Now it's pretty credible .

what they can do now. awesome.

David, thank you very much for being here. Man, you're an american. Original, really are. And it's been cool to know you all these years into you made the usc a very exciting thing in the early days. You were one of the big reasons for its early success.

Yes.

I think so. I think so too. I think everybody thinks so.

And I appreciate your brother and and good health you, I hope you feel Better. Thank you very much. Anybody, website, anywhere else people can see your stuff.

Oh yeah. Now just amazon. Before their rules, you have a website. Yeah job. What to call instagram station.

What's the instagram tank?

The habit .

okay yeah alright.

I think anyways yeah like I said, I i've advice strokes amazing that i'm even talking but was I going to tell you there is my I don't know.

We are talking about website instagram buy the books on amazon your integram David no tank .

dot out before there are rules. Um the first word, you know, I like I said I rote every single pages of this book. The first word is misspelled. So are you proactively .

blocking? People get in matter from a spell ling things no.

no. I like I put that out there as bait for all the nurses. Tell me how .

I was put things .

on time.

No, it's always playing games. Yes, all right. But thanks, brother.

Thanks to be here. It's great to see you again and again. Best to help you, everybody.