#2212 - Jelly Roll
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Joe Rogan Podcast, check it out. The Joe Rogan Experience. Train by day, Joe Rogan Podcast. Let's go. Let's go. I'm back with my bubba. My man, I haven't seen you since Master Square Garden. That was crazy. What a great night that was, dude. What an experience, man. Dude, it was so, I was thinking about it pulling up here is that I think y'all just got out of Vulcan and the club had just opened.

And I came that night to see Ron White. And I went back that Monday to see Kill Tony. And I could feel the Kill Tony thing happening over COVID at Vulcan. So I had to go see it in person. Yeah. And I could remember sitting in there. And you know how like you can feel an energy shift? Yeah. I felt an energy shift in life in that room that night. I was like...

This is fixing to explode. Yeah. Like everything associated with this club, everything associated with Tony, everything associated with Joe is fixing to fucking rocket ship. And it felt like almost like I'm getting goosebumps, Joe. I'm not even bullshitting. I'm getting goosebumps too. I'm getting goosebumps. It's almost like, I swear, dude. It was like,

feeling the grunge movement in the 90s. Like when you first heard a little something, you were like, this is different. And you were like, this could be something. And then it just turned out to be the explosion. It's like, I felt that happening. So to see Tony...

At fucking Madison Square Garden. And then to see how y'all showed up for Tony at Madison Square Garden. Every fucking comedian on earth came to see that dude to fucking kiss him on his fucking cheek. I had to be there. I had to be there. I was there in the beginning. I was there when there was like 18 comedians in the crowd. Is that not crazy? It was crazy. They were doing it in the belly room of the comedy store. It was just like an afterthought. They couldn't do any of the other rooms because they didn't have an audience. Yeah.

And Tony just had this weird idea that he just like a little pit bull just stuck with it.

One minute of comedy and he honed it over time and figured out. And then he became the best host in all of entertainment. There's no one better at hosting a comedy show than him. The way he does that show, the speed of his comebacks, the speed of his roast lines. I tell Tony all the time, I say, Tony, I love you. And that panel is the coolest thing I've ever seen. But you are the show, brother. We would all tune in if you were sitting up there by yourself. Like you are just...

So sharp. I relate to it too, Joe. I compare art forms. It's just something I like to do. I know some people don't.

But watching Tony, I feel a kinship to Tony and Andrew Schultz in a certain way because I feel like we all kind of met each other right before it happened for all of us. Right. Like I remember me and Schultz doing the opener up song at the five, four, you know, he was doing two nights at Zany's, two shows, one show, you know, one show a night. You know what I mean? And I was doing a thousand seat club in the South. You know what I mean? And Tony was still kill Tony. And you know what I mean? Yeah. And we're all fucking old.

Like the fact that it happened for all of us in our late 30s is even cooler. So it's this double kinship. Like when I was nominated for New Artist of the Year at almost 40, that's the first time that it ever happened in CMA history and country music. But like this year, most of those kids are 27 and under. Here I was a 40-year-old fucking man up there. You're a beautiful example that there's no rules. Yes.

There's no rules. It's all bullshit. Just be yourself. Just be yourself. Do your best. Find whatever it is inside you that you can express. There's no rules. There's no rules for age. Like Ron White used to worry about that all the time. I think I'm too old. What are you? You're Ron motherfucking White. You're a legend. Period. But it's like that humility that he has, even though he's got great confidence in his ability. Like Ron is a very humble guy, as successful as he is. But that humility that he is is also the confidence

constantly has him writing, constantly has him working. He's 40 years in the game. He never stops. And he's better now than he's ever been before. Now that he's sober, like he's a monster, a monster on stage. Imagine hitting, so to me, Ron White is on Mount Rushmore of comedy. For me personally, I know it's subjective. Some people are going to, you know, whatever. But for me, because I judge comedy as a fan of like, I look at skits like, I mean, I look at specials like,

What song stood out to me the most in the whole special? Like your special was your album. How many songs do you have that I tell my friends about? Like it's my song. Right, right, right. You know what I mean? Like to me, Ron White has done more of that than I have more Ron White bits memorized than any other comedian.

Just by like default of how good he is at weaving these little quick two minute stories of just complete white trashery and druggery, which is just my fucking specialty. It's like I feel like he grew up on my street. You know what I'm saying? So my mama likes Ron White. You know what I mean? He was the first guy out here. You know, he was the first guy that came. He moved here before the pandemic because he was always with us at the store. And then one day I called him up. Where the fuck you been, man? He was I moved to Austin.

Back to Texas. He just loved it. He's like, there's no traffic. Everyone's nice. And I started thinking about it then. He planted the first seeds in 2018. I was like, can I live in Austin? Fuck, I don't know. Because my instinct has always been to move to the mountains. I want to live somewhere where there's no people. Did you have mountains in mind when you romanticized it? Did you ever think of what mountains you would move to if you did it? I really liked the mountains above Boulder. Yeah.

I lived there for a little while in 2009. But when I think about Montana sometimes, I think about just someplace more peaceful, Wyoming. Somewhere just a little more peaceful. Cold as fuck in the winter, but just like more real, right?

And that was my thought when I was living in L.A., but it was like a necessity to get the fuck out of there. When the COVID stuff was going on, I'm like, they're not going to let this go. They're going to keep us in control. Once they have control of you like they had during the pandemic, wear a mask, got to get a vaccine, can't go here, can't go there, no businesses, everything shut down, all the restaurants go under, all the comedy clubs go under. When they were doing that, I was like, they're not going to let this go. I got to get the fuck out of here. And when we came to Texas...

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Like, you know, some places made you wear a mask, but it was a joke. It was like it was a goof. It was weird. It was like a completely different universe. We could go to my kids were young, man. They were 10 and 12. And like they wanted to go to restaurants like we can go to a restaurant here and sit indoors like for everyone was terrified in L.A. And they just weren't here. And the same results like the same the same thing happened to everybody. But over here, it was a way more peaceful experience.

And Ron, when we were out here, we started doing shows at the Vulcan. And one night, the first time Ron had been on stage in like eight months, he just grabbed me by my shoulders. He's like, whatever the fuck we have to do, we're going to keep doing this. He's like, you got to open up a club. And I'm like, all right, that's it. We're opening up a club. And the process began. God. All because of Ron. Ron led me to think about moving here. Ron was already out here. So I knew that if I did move to Austin, at least Ron's here.

And then Tony moved here, and then Brian Simpson moved here, and then the fucking train kept rolling all night long. It was nuts. I think it was by default. It was kind of a universe thing where there was a little bit of stale water that needed to be stirred.

And when you came, that still water stirred and it awakened everybody. Like, hold on. There's choices outside of the same routine that we've been. Because, you know, I mean, I'm sure y'all's life was store, store, store, weekends out, store, store, store. It was improv, too. I did the improv in the Ice House. There was a few clubs we did, like on a regular. You know, because the more places to work out, the better. Yeah.

And when we were – there were so many of us, too. We'd have shows where it's like Bill Burr's on, me, Tom Segura, Bert Kreischer. They're crazy shows. Crazy shows. Because everybody was in L.A. It was a beautiful thing up until they shut everything down. It's that beautiful here now, though, Bob. That's what's crazy. Man, that's what I'm saying. The water is complete. I mean, it is –

And, you know, the best thing is, too, there's an added element that we bring new people in every weekend. So every weekend there's these big national headliners. So they come in on Tuesday, Wednesday. We're fucking around all week. Yeah. We're just having a great time. That's what I that's how I describe your club. I was like, it's the gym for the greatest comedians in the world Tuesday through Thursday. And then the other greatest comedians in the world come and rent it.

from Friday to Sunday. I was like, it's crazy, dude. It's like no matter what day of show you are. And then you have Kill Tony, that's the anchor. Every Monday. Kill Tony is the anchor of comedy in the known universe. Yeah. It really, that's a grandiose statement, I know.

But what Kill Tony shows you is like every comic wants a reaction. And some comics, unfortunately, if you're in specific areas, like very liberal areas, like Silver Lake has a problem with this, like those kind of places where everyone's like super woke and they want to let everyone else know that they're super woke. It's like a kind of thing you have to do. So you get ideologically captured there.

And you make material that's bullshit. You get clapped. What Kill Tony makes you do is you have one fucking minute. You have one minute and there's obviously no rules. By the time you get on stage, you've seen Cam go crazy. You've seen Hans Kim say some ridiculous shit. Maybe you've seen William Montgomery or Brian Holtz. But you've seen maniacs on stage killing. And so you got one minute just crack.

It's time to crack. So it sets a tone for comedy. The comedy is just entertaining. No matter how you put it out, no matter what it is, what your style is, what you'd like to talk about, whether you're Nate Bargatze or whether you're Shane Gillis. There's just a different way to do it. Everybody's got their own way to do it.

But it's just go try to find your way. Don't try any tricks. Don't try to sneak in some fucking ideological bullshit just because you think people are going to agree with you and like you more and clap and cheat and you're going to say something profound. Shut up. You got one minute. So that sets a tone for all the people coming up. So real.

I never thought of it that way. It's one of the most important things that's ever happened to Kanye. Nobody's trying to impose their beliefs on you real quick. They're just trying to make... They got 60 seconds to get a fucking laugh. And the Kill Tony crowd will boo you if you don't. You've got about 30 seconds with them in an arena. In an arena? Real dangerous grounds, dude. Bro, they were... Especially New Yorkers. The first show in New York. They were rough, bro. It was...

They were rough. They go hard. You know, when I knew the arena thing was going to be huge for Tony, I flew down here for the first one he did because we were drunk at the bar that night. And he was like, I'm going to play an arena. I was like, I'm going to come sing the national anthem. And it was a joke because I don't sing the national anthem. I have a rule. I don't sing the national anthem. But I told him I was going to do it. So I came down and we're watching the first comedian this night at the H-E-B Center. Right. The first bucket pool comes up.

And you could tell this bitch did not have any idea she was going to get called or anything to say. This is the first you talking about a gift from God for Tony, right? She's not up there 18 seconds, Joe, before they realize that she's just, you know, falafeling. The boo birds came. They didn't start slowly and grow like they normally do. It was like 13 or 12,000 people made the decision at once. Boo! What a horrible feeling.

What a horrible feeling. And I was like, oh yeah, this is going to explode in arenas. I was like, Kill Tony's going to fuck in arenas. It's the best show for that kind of an audience. We watch it every Monday on the bus. It's chaotic. Full disclosure, like as a bus, imagine like-

bunch of music dudes every Monday that were like religiously it's something we have together you know what I mean it's something that the whole band can agree on the other thing about kill Tony was in the beginning Tony wasn't famous no one was famous and they were just going hard and then as everyone got famous they kept going hard

Whereas it's very hard to just jump in and do something that wild now. And there was nothing like it during COVID. There's nothing like it. You got this live show every week in front of a live audience and everybody else is locked down. You have to wear your fucking mask where you're walking your dog. You know, like what is going on? No, you're having to bring it. It was also just like this.

rejection of norm, you know, rejection of whatever is going, whatever people think the comedy industry is. Because people think the comedy industry is like some group of people with power that control and give people specials that don't deserve it. There's all this like weird...

Weird thoughts about the comedy business, but when the comedy business is only comedians. It's a completely different experience And that's what kill Tony is there's no Business element behind it. There's no networks. There's no producers. There's no there's no person No executive worrying about their fucking mortgage. You can't say that Tony. There's none of that. So it's just wild No, it's it's complete chaos all the time. It's the greatest show on the internet period. That's the truth fucking rules. I

But you're talking about people that do more when they get there. And me and you were talking off record, right? I mean off record, off the microphone. We were walking in here about you hang around nine long enough, you'll be the tenth. Yeah. And God bless me that in the last few years, in light of my success, I've had really cool friends. Like Tony and I have become really good friends. You and I have become really good friends. And I've been able to watch like a student of the game, guys like y'all, Bert, Tom, and go, man, these dudes are turning the heat up.

as it matters, like the content's flowing, like it's only getting bigger. Last year, Joe,

My most successful year of my career, I wrote more songs than I've ever wrote in a single year as a free man. That's amazing. Jail's a different concept because, fuck, I wrote a song a day. You know what I mean? But I wrote a hundred and I turned in one hundred and seventy songs to my publisher last year. I just couldn't quit writing them. I was on the bus. I just could not. I could not at every corner. I was getting done with show. You know, I do five shows a week. It's just how we tour.

I was getting straight on the bus and just grabbing a guitar and just pouring ideas. I'm putting out 27 songs when this podcast is out. My album, Beautifully Broken, is out right now. I had 22 on the album, and I had five or six features that I was going to do for Deluxe next week. And my wife teased one of the songs that's kind of doing good, so I think I'm just going to drop them all tomorrow. Today, technically, anyway.

Dude, you're so at home on stage, it's crazy. You know, when you did New York, New York at Madison Square Garden, I asked you, I'm like, how often do you just do this? Just get up there and sing. How often are you doing this? It's a crazy thing because it's like just you.

You just are you up there, you know, 15,000 people, 50,000 people. It's just jelly roll. It's a, that's when a guy's like, you know, you're, you're just so in the zone. And so on top of your game, it's just beautiful to watch someone that's in the zone. Cause you recognize that that feeling is a great feeling.

When you're just like totally in tune with what you're doing. I love when I see a comic that's in there. When you know it's a flow. Yeah. You know what I mean? Last time Dave Vettel was here. It was right before he filmed his special. My God. It was magic. He's so different. Oh my God. He's so good right now. If you get a chance to see Dave Vettel live, if you're a comedy fan, you have to see him. And now I'm sure he's got a whole bunch of new stuff because his special's out. But God damn, he's in this fucking flow right now.

He's like a zen master up there. It's scary how comfortable he is. So I've never been to the Cellar. It's been a dream of mine. I had a night in New York. I'd finished TV, so I went to the Cellar that night. And I got David Tell's number on Burt's tour. I went on Burt's fully loaded tour this year for fun. Did I tell you this story? I think.

I think so. I think I told you, but just like to fuck off. I called Bert and was like, yo, can I just park my bus and just come fuck off for like five or six shows? He was like, what? I was like, yeah. He was like, will you sing? I was like, fuck yeah, whatever. I'll come sing a song or two. So I just go up with a guitar every night between comedians. That's amazing. But me and Dave would hang out every night. Me, Dave, Big J, Oakerson, Soder, Morrell. And we would all just, Bert, I'm just like having the cool, I'm just like,

Rarely quiet as I am back there because I'm just listening because these dudes are telling the greatest storytellers ever. Oh, yeah. Telling old stories. Great guys, too. Soder, he's the best. Soder's the dude, son. So I'm like. Sam's fucking amazing, too. They're just such good guys, too. And such good real just different level comedians, too, man. They're great comedians, but they're just great people, too. They're fun to hang with. There's a great crop. There's a great crop of people coming up right now. You know, Normand and Shane and all these guys coming up right now are so good. Yeah.

It's so fun. It's a different level. David Till gives me his number. He's like, call me if you're ever in New York. I know. I see he has a flip phone, right? Yeah. He pulls the flip phone out. So I'm in New York and I just like randomly and I say, Dave, when I call you, I'm going to be in New York City trying to find you. OK, he said he said, no problem. I'll be at the cellar. That's what he tells me. Right.

I call this dude, me and Ian Finance are sitting at the bar, and I say, I'm going to call Dave and see what time he's coming. I call third ring Dave Antros and go, you here? I go, I am. He goes, you need help getting in? I was like, I'm in. He said, see you in a few. Flips the phone down. It was the most Dave Attell thing ever. He's one of the only guys I know that stopped partying, got completely sober, and got way better. Way better. A lot of guys...

There's like this thing that they have when they're, you know, doing drugs, especially where they're just wild. And sometimes that wildness is like a magical energy on stage. Like I couldn't imagine a sober Kinnison. That would have been really weird.

Like, Kennison's whole thing was like, I'm here to fucking party! Yes. Like, he was partying, dude, hard. And that's why we didn't get much out of him. We only got, like, really a couple of good albums out of Kennison. Because he's just going too hard. His family came to my show in El Paso. Polly sent them. And they brought me...

Sam Kinison's original gospel discs. Oh, wow. They gave me like five of them, Joe. It's one of my most prized possessions now. How is it? How's the music? Oh, it's crazy. Well, it's a lot of preaching on there too. Is it preaching and singing? Yeah, it was a lot of preaching on the first one. I didn't get to the second one yet. I hadn't had a disc player.

They brought all five of them. I was so scared to fuck them up. I immediately put them in a Pelican crate and sent them home. Oh, wow. I was like, this is crazy. You know what I mean? I mean, the whole Kennison family, there's like 10 of them in there sharing all these cool stories. Because I wanted them, Polly said, the Kennison family wants to come see your show. I said, I want them to see my show because I have so much of my show is derivative from Sam Kennison. You know what I mean? Like, there's so much. I'm a Southern gospel man anyways. I went to a Southern church, so I just understood everything.

Kenison's inflections and that kind of thing. It just spoke to me from where I'm from. So it's like I have always tried to, I tell people I'm somewhere between Billy Graham and Sam Kenison. You know what I mean? As far as like how, you know, when you got to come see, I'll be, I do the Moody Center in November. Okay. It's a middle of the week too. You should be able to make it. Let's go. It'll be fun. I'm trying to talk Karen to putting a closed on Mitzi's door sign that says clothes gone to the Jelly Roll Show. Speaking of Mitzi's, can I tell you something? I want to, I've been waiting to talk to you about this. Okay. I'm a good person.

I was so inspired by the time I spent with you down here and more importantly, the time I spent at your club, even without you. Just they treat me. I don't know if you hear the stories, but I've become a fixture of furniture there when I'm in town. And I am opening. I'm announcing this now right here that I'm opening my bar on Broadway in Nashville, Tennessee, which is a real big deal. You've been to Broadway. It's all after country music stars.

I'm the first Nashville native to get a bar. So like the first kid from the city to get a bar. But I was so inspired by the way the mothership has Mitzi's and it's like an honor to Mitzi's and what y'all do that I have put my, my bar is going to be called jelly rolls. Good night, Nashville. But I have a back bar called buddies named after my late father.

And it was completely inspired from what you have done at Mitzi's. Oh, that's great. All the way down to the we're going to set his chair there for him. You know what I mean? Like, it's just so inspiring. And it's going to be just like y'all. Our rule is it's open to the public when it's open to the public. And when it's not, it's not. Right. You know what I mean? Yeah, like Mitzi's. Yeah, it's like because that place has created such a safe place for me to party. Yeah. This is what me and Post Malone talk about when we're drunk by ourselves. We're like, we need to go back to Jalston. Let's just go hang out. It's like the safest bar in the world.

You know what I'm saying? It's like, I can say anything here. I know I'm okay. Everybody's cool. The whole staff's cool. The staff's mostly comedians. But my question was, can I send my buddy's bartender to hang out with Carrie for a week and shadow her? Oh, yeah. 100%. Sure. Carrie said she's into it. She just said, ask Joe. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Whatever you need. Yeah. Yeah, that's a great idea. I think I'm going to send her down in November around my show here. I'm going to bring her with me so she can meet Carrie that night. Because Carrie...

Runs the ultimate celebrity bar to me. Yeah, like she deals with complete chaos down there with them comedians I've watched it. It is Wow. Well, Carrie learned how to do it at the store. That's why I hired her She was one of the first hires because I told her I go, you know She was like the one of the first people I contacted I'm like, I'm gonna open up a club I had to get her out here because she was like the mother of the back bar That's how I feel the back bar at the store was

It was completely removed. There's no general public at all. It's a very small, you've ever been in the back bar of the store? Oh yeah. Yeah. So Carrie ran that place. So she kept everybody in line. Punky was there too before Punky was on SNL. It's hilarious. She used to run that back bar too.

And we used to all hang out there. Like anybody, you know, you could be safe there. All these celebrities, people from out of town, they'd all just find their way to that weird little private bar. So I kind of knew. And originally, Mitzi's was not going to be open to the public at all. It was just going to be a private bar.

But then along the way, we said, you know what? It doesn't hurt to have it open to the general public up until a certain time. And then from that time out, have it everybody after the shows are over. Because that's when everybody really wants to hang. And that was like the best blending of both worlds. But it was that old bar in Hollywood was – it had her bar.

bar from her home that they had moved and put there. So the actual bar that you put drinks on was from her home. Yeah. So it's like that there was like a piece of her there with us all the time. So when we decided to do this place, I'm like, we got to have a bar just for Mitzi. Just it's the same kind of same kind of vibe. Yeah. You know, I mean, it touched my soul in such a way that I wanted to do it for my father. That's awesome. You know what I mean? So I just want you to know that the Mitzi legacy has went even further and that the

What y'all have created there is spreading on to... You almost got me emotional talking about a woman I never even met. I just know she did so much for you. She did so much for everybody. She's the most important person in the history of comedy that's not a comedian. Polly's shared some really cool stories with me about her, and it's just, man, it's just unreal. I got to spend a little time with Polly because I went to that back bar there once.

The cool thing is because of y'all, I've now found y'all's community embraces me everywhere now. So I'm safe. If I'm in a city now, if I'm in LA, I'm like, where's the comedy club? I bet they got a back bar. Call Adam Ray. You know what I'm saying? Adam Ray's like, hey, I'm at the back bar at the store. Come on. I'm like, yes. On the way. Yeah. It's a fun group of people. Contrary to popular belief. Yeah. Popular belief is the comedians are all like miserable. No, dude. It's actually the funnest. The greatest thing.

storytellers ever. I could listen to guys like Burt talk all night. I could listen to Joey Diaz talk all night. I've known Joey for 30 years. He still tells me new stories. Yeah, it's crazy. No, dude, it's crazy, man. How do you still have stories? It's crazy, dude. Well, Joey could go to the store today and have a story. Oh, yeah. You know what I mean? It'd just be fucking one of the best stories ever. I think we're all in the storytelling business, right? That's what I do, too. Sure. I'm telling stories. I'm not doing it

in a comedic way, but I'm still telling a story. You know what I mean? Like, it's all that kind of story. I am attracted to storytellers. I think we all are. I mean, that's why you love a good movie and that's why you love a good book. Especially one that's somebody that can tell a story that can capture you in a certain way.

I think it was probably the oldest form of entertainment, right? Once people, when they first started learning language, I bet the oldest form of entertainment was probably recreating a thing they saw. Right. Yeah. Had to be, right? Yeah, for sure. Think about the old, let's sit around the campfire, read stories. Sure, sure. I'm sure they were telling tales. Tall tales is what they used to call them. Think about how long we've been hearing these kind of stories of people just telling stories. Also, back then, that was the only time in your day that you got to relax. Mm-hmm.

When you're sitting around the campfire, that was the only time. It was dark out. There was nothing to do. You found all the food you're going to find and you're going to get up in the morning and go right back at it all day long again and then eventually find your way back to the campfire. So the campfire was like the time where people would sit around and entertain each other.

In prehistory. Yeah. That's deep. Because you're thinking about it like from a hunting perspective too. They had to go out all day and find the food. Yeah. You could only do that when the sun was out. You could only do it when the sun was out. And at nighttime, it's fucking dangerous because there's predators out there. So fire is the best thing to keep off the predators. You need a fire and everybody gathers around the fire because the predators don't want to come to the fire. Yeah.

Fuck, man. And that's where people learned how to tell stories. That's why we're so attracted to it. And they were doing fucking drugs back then, too, I'm sure. Oh, 100%. They were smoking pot and doing all kinds of drugs. They were doing all kinds of drugs. Somebody had already figured out that cow shit mushrooms could make you feel great. Yeah, right.

Yeah, 100%. 100%. They tried everything. They were starving. They tried a little bit of eating everything, and they figured out what you can eat and what kills you. Imagine going through mushrooms and trying to figure out which ones kill you and which ones get you to see God. Yeah. They had to figure that out, trial and error. How many times they had to go through it and go back and go, listen, y'all, I've done this a few times, and I'm pretty confident that there is this thing that grows in a pile of shit that makes me feel fucking like God. You know what I'm saying? It's crazy, dude. Somebody had to be that guy.

Did you ever hear about John Marco Allegro in the book The Sacred Mushroom and the Scrolls? No. It's Sacred Mushroom and the Christian Myth. And there's two different—Sacred Mushroom and the Dead Sea Scrolls, I think, is one of them. What are the titles of his book? Sacred Mushroom and the Cross. And then there is another one?

There's another one that he released after the Catholic Church allegedly bought out all the copies of the first one to get rid of it. Wow. Something in the Christian myth.

the dead sea scrolls in the christian myth i read the dead sea so this guy thinks that all of religion is stories about mushrooms he thinks that the entire christian religion was about psychedelic mushrooms and fertility rituals he thinks that what they were doing was they would have these stories especially when they're conquered by the romans they'd have these stories so they would hide the truth in stories

And in, you know, allegories and all these different tales. But he thinks that the entire Christian religion was based on the consumption of psychedelic mushrooms. I can tell you this on brand. I mean, I'm a man of faith, but on brand with that is Jesus told stories and he taught in stories. Jesus never gave a direct direction.

He always was just like, well, and then he'd tell a story and you would have to figure out, you know what I mean? It was like, okay, this story would show the, it was always in story form too. Maybe they knew that was the best way to ensure that people would tell it the same way every time. Ooh.

You know, because if you have a story and the story, Noah has an ark and he brings the animals in the ark and God tells him he's going to do this and he's going to do that. And he does it. And then, you know, if you have a story, then that information keeps getting told essentially the same way over and over and over again. Like we can read the epic of Gilgamesh today. That's a 6,000 year old story. Something like that. 5,000. Yeah.

We can read that today. That's nuts. That's crazy. Because it's a story. But if it was just people talking about what you should do or what happened, when it's history, man, we can't trust history from the 60s. History from the 60s. We're finding out new shit every day about the Kennedy assassination. That was fucking 63, man. 63.

That's 51 fucking years ago. That's insane. And we're still trying to figure out what the fuck happened. And this is like with modern, like they had television, they had printing press, they had all these different things. They had accountability, they had elected officials, they had democracy. Still can't figure out what the fuck happened. And that's 63. So imagine trying to figure out what the fuck happened 5,000 years ago.

You know, it's like, who knows who's telling the truth? Who knows? You've got to sort through the rubble and figure out what the fucking facts show. But if you have a story, even if it's like there's something hidden in that story, and he thinks that that's what the... This episode is brought to you by ZipRecruiter. Pressure can be a good thing, like on the mat or in the ring. It can push you to do your best.

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All that stuff on the inside of it is just a story, right? It's all telling a story to a degree. The hieroglyphics, some of them, sure. The hieroglyphics are like telling stories or when they have the guys chasing these things with the spears, they're like trying to show a story. It's all trying to tell a story, man. And a lot of mushrooms, too. Yeah. There's a lot of images then with mushrooms. I might do mushrooms today. It's my album release today. I'm thinking about it.

I don't know if I want to do mushrooms. God, they should be legal. I know, right? God, they should be legal. They should be legal and regulated and people should figure out what the fuck they do. Should do a lot of research. Figure out what this is. This might be the thing that gets us out of there. Just a micro-dosing nation that connects together. I know every time I've went deep, it was life-changing for me. Like, I'll do a lot of mushrooms every now and then, just like, you know, ooh, let's get. But any time I was like, let's go.

It was a life-changing experience every time. It's funny that people want to reject that as not being important. What's really important is to keep people from, like, losing their mind and losing their ambition and becoming like the hippies were in the 1960s following Timothy Leary. That's what everybody's worried about. Everybody's worried about, like, this collapse of society because people, they give up on capitalism. They tune in and drop out, you know, that whole thing.

I don't think that's real. I don't think we should be worried about that. I think those people are always going to want to drop out. The people that want to fuck off are always going to want to fuck off. And if you give them an excuse, yeah, they're going to do it. But that's just a style of person. That's not going to affect most people.

most people would benefit especially if they're not crazy they don't have like mental health problems it'll you'll probably get something out of it yeah i mean it's helped me in some of my most depressed moments if i'm really in a dark dark spot and can't get out of it my wife will encourage me to go trip she'll be like why don't you go could we like we got this uh it's called the buffalo river back in tennessee it's out outside of a little town called hornwall tennessee look old country river man i mean look country creek river i mean it's a river but it's

Kind of shallow. You can see the bottom of it. It's called floating the buffalo. We'll go out there and just float the buffalo. And every now and about twice a year, me and the buddies will go out there and we'll just take six or seven and just float the buffalo. So if I haven't got to do it in a year because of the schedule, my wife will feel that on me and be like, no, you might need to go to the buffalo. You know what I'm saying? She'll say it really cool. She'll be like, when's the last time you floated the buffalo?

And I'll be like, man, it's been a year, hasn't it? She'll be like, I think you and Scary Larry is one of my best friends. And he's, I've known him, we met each other in juvenile hall. He's a just wild character. She goes, you and Scary should go float to Buffalo. She'll just like encourage me. Like she knows I'm going to come back a way better husband, way better father. You know what the wildest theory I've ever heard about psilocybin is? Is that it came from outer space. That it's an organism from another planet. And the reason for this is that

They know that spores can survive in the vacuum of space. And there's a thing called panspermia. And panspermia is the idea that like an asteroid slams into a planet and it takes amino acids and biological organisms that can survive in space and a bunch of different elements from that planet and then introduces those new elements to another planet by way of an asteroid.

And that's a real thing that we know for sure happens, right? And they know that that's how we get iridium. There's a lot of iridium on Earth, like in places where there's been an impact because it's really rare on Earth but really common in space. So we know that some shit gets to us. And apparently – I'm too stupid to understand this, but the way botanists describe it – and see if you can find any information on this. There's something very unusual about the compound psilocybin and psilocybin mushrooms – psilocybin cubensis mushrooms –

They're very weird. And they're not really connected to a lot of the other fungus that's here in some strange way. Like the way they work is like also very tied into human neurochemistry. Like it's really close to like dimethyltryptamine, which is a part of human neurochemistry.

And so the craziest theory is that it's come from space. Living spores have been found and collected in every level of Earth's atmosphere. Mushroom spores are electron dense and can survive in the vacuum of space. Additionally, their outer layer is actually metallic and of a purple hue, which naturally allows the spore to deflect ultraviolet light. And as if all this wasn't unique enough, the outer shell of the spore is the hardest organic compound to exist in nature.

So this is one of the weirder theories. So was this Terence McKenna's theory? Are mushrooms from outer space? It brings him up. I don't know if it's officially his theory. The late ethnobotanist Terence McKenna suggests that mushrooms are responsible for human intelligence. Yeah, he had a theory. It's called the stoned ape theory. Yeah, I heard about that on your podcast. His theory hypothesized that mushroom spores possess all the necessary requirements to travel on space currents. Furthermore, they could have settled in the brain matter of primitive hominoids

and following the lines of modern-day hallucinogenic mushrooms directly contributed to our modern-day intelligence and self-awareness. It's fucking wild. Yeah, his theory is that's why, I mean, if you can see it there, click on that back again, you can see where it was talking about his theory. So his theory is very, very bizarre.

So he went on to theorize that mushrooms are the reason there's human life on Earth. Yeah. He said, while it may seem like material from space, from a science fiction novel rather, there is no avoiding the fact that mushrooms possess many traits that are unique to their kingdom alone. Fungi build cell walls of...

I don't know how to say that word. Chitin? Chitin? Chitin? The same material that makes up the hard outer shell of insects and other arthropods. I'm so comfortable I would have said chitin. Chitin. Could be chitin. Chitin. Like chitlins. These cell walls contain similar chemicals found in butterfly and beetle wings, as well as the plumage of some colorful birds such as peacocks, living spores. Okay, so we've read that, but there was something about his theory where he's explaining his theory of how it would have worked.

That's it. Well, essentially his theory was that they experimented with mushrooms and it made them better hunters and it made them more creative and it made them figure out language. And he thinks it's responsible for this weird mystery of the human brain size. It doubled over a period of two million years. And there's no real solid explanation for that.

It's a very strange thing. Apparently the biggest mystery in all the fossil record when it comes to animals and evolution. Really? Yeah, how did the human brain double over two million years? Oh, dude, it had to have been psilocybin. Probably had a part of it. Or aliens. Right. Maybe aliens. Yeah. Maybe both. Maybe they are aliens. You know, maybe they are aliens. Maybe we're just looking the wrong way. Maybe we're fucking aliens, right? I think we probably are.

I think we probably are. It doesn't seem like we belong here. You know what I tell somebody all the time? My new theory is because my life turned out in such a way I never dreamed that this is a simulation and that there is an overweight, nerdy alien that plays me.

And that during my, I think about this all the time when I'm high. And that my sleeping hours are like when he's doing his normal stuff and my waking hours are his two hours a day. And I just imagine this like kid that's looking back like, mom, you won't believe what I've done with that fat dude the last nine months. It's fucking crazy. He's one of the most famous artists in the world. And she's like, you got to get off. He's like, but he's going to the Glyphosate.

Yeah, it's like a super hype version of Red Dead Redemption. My dude's telling people, like, y'all remember that dude we thought wasn't going to do it? He did it. He fucking figured it out. If it's a simulation, it's a really good one. We're in a good timeline, brother. Oh, it couldn't be any better, man. We're in a really good episode. We got a fucking good group of writers. It couldn't have got any coming. It's like if you're on the show and you got writers like this, like, fuck, these writers are amazing. Yeah.

This fucking show is always entertaining. Every day there's some drama. Yeah.

Especially right now. We're in the middle of the drama scene. Oh, my goodness. There's so much. There's so much. You could get overwhelmed just looking at the fucking news every day. It's a great time for me to be in the middle of a tour. Yes. Because I've missed it all. I'm doing five shows a week, and I'm so in the vortex of touring. Yeah, good. We do that old school rock and roll shit, so we really do play five shows a week for 12, 13 weeks, you know? That's amazing. It's awesome, dude. But again, that's why you're so comfortable up there. You're so just...

It reeks of a man that's done a thousand shows. You know what I mean? It's like when you see a comedian up there really comfortable. It's like when I watched the tale at the Comedy Cellar, when he leaned back on the wall, I was like, oh, he's fitting to kill. When he just walked straight up and leaned back. And then he calls Ian up, and Ian's just throwing, you know, just shit at him. And he's just lighting Ian on fire. It was so good, man. Yeah, that's a good hammer and nail, the two of those guys together, too. He did that at the club here, too. I feel like it's...

It reminds me of like the early phases of like a bumping mics thing, like a new version of that. Right. Because when him and Jeff Ross are together, it's like when David Lucas and Tony are firing on each other. I feel the exact same way when Jeff Ross and David tell her near each other. Yeah. I get that same excited feeling of like, ooh, some shit's going to pop off.

You know what I'm saying? Yeah, when David and Tony go after each other, there's like hours on the internet of just David and Tony shitting on each other. There's a hundred thousand ways David can call Tony gay. Yeah, and he's called David a hundred thousand ways to be fat. It's just...

It's also the way they laugh at each other doing it. Like, if this is a simulation, man, we picked a really good one. Yeah, it's getting cooler and cooler. Elon believes it's a simulation. He's a lot smarter than me. Yeah. He thinks the odds that it's not a simulation are in the billions. Really? Yeah, in the billions, he said. Wow.

I'm telling you, dude, there's a little dude that nobody believes in. He's going to school every day like, my Minecraft dude is killing it. Do you get that imposter syndrome thing ever? Oh, man, so much. I'm...

I'm somewhere between feeling extremely uncomfortable where I'm at in my career right now or overly comfortable where I'm at in my career. So I'm either having to catch myself and go, whoa, big fella. Right. Come on now, dog. You were just in jail. People that knew you six years ago hate you still. You know what I'm saying? It's like...

And then I have situations where I'm like, I don't belong here. I'm having that moment right now. This is my first album, Joe, that is going to be in a fight for the number one album in the world. Never dreamed. Now this is like, what the fuck am I doing here? You know what I mean? That's a different world. Do you think that's maybe something that you shouldn't even think about? Because your music's amazing. You're amazing. Maybe all that...

Just let it just exist. No, that's what I've been. Because it's so big now, it's almost like if you pay attention to it, you're going to go blind. Oh! You know what I'm saying? Like you're kind of staring at the sun. Yeah. You're kind of staring at the sun. Like it used to be you had a little campfire and you're warming your hands because it's cold outside. Right.

but now you're kind of staring at the sun and maybe just be Jelly Roll. That's what I, but what's getting, being Jelly Roll got me to the point that they're now saying I might have a number one album. You probably will. You know what I'm saying? And then you're in a place where you're like, holy fuck. And that's where the imposter syndrome comes in because you're like, yo, I wasn't even,

That's where friends are important. Yeah. Yeah. I didn't have a Billboard Hot 100 song. Right. Until 24, 36 months ago. You know what I mean? Yeah. You exploded. Yeah. But you handle it beautifully. You really do. Because you feel like genuine gratitude. Yeah. Genuine gratitude comes off of you. Yeah. Thank you. It's real. I am true. You feel it. I mean, you know me. I'm genuine.

Can't believe this is happening. I know you can't. It's the wildest thing ever. It is. Every corner. We deserve it. I was just with our boy Brigham doing some blood work and getting some getting some some some shit to make my feel better. Broke my broke my heel. And we were talking about that of like living in the gratitude of it to the end. Realizing even you saying that we're such a special simulation. Yeah.

The time of this, I know I keep going back to the same point, but it's where my heart is right now, is watching...

me and a bunch of guys that were all at this kind of same thing at the same time, three or four years ago that you could feel the teapot bubbling and all of us being like a little left of center. You know what I mean? Like I wasn't supposed to be in country music the way that they've embraced me outside looking in you to never guess outside looking in, you could have never said that kill Tony would be the number one live podcast on the internet. You know what I mean? Or that Schultz's podcast would be, or that, um,

Me and Zach Bryan would have this similar, of course, he ended up being way bigger than me, but just like similar kind of we're writing songs our whole life that nobody really heard. And then all of a sudden they got just it's probably the craziest synergies that could have ever happened in any scenario for me in any way. And it's inspired me to get healthy.

It's like gave me purpose and I've never felt more loved. I've never felt more warmed or welcomed. I spent so much time feeling the opposite of loved, you know, even walking in here and playing with Carl. There was a time in my life where I would have walked in here and that dog would have let y'all know I was not a good person. You know what I'm saying? You would have just looked at me like, why is Carl acting weird with this big guy? You know what I mean? Yeah. Just what's up with kids were the same way. Do kids would look at me and squall.

You know what I mean? And it's really inspired me to start focusing on my health, too. Dude, I'm down 100 pounds now. Officially down 100 fucking pounds. That's amazing. Congratulations. That's really huge. Dude, it's... That's a massive accomplishment. Thank you, brother. It's been all food. I'm working out. I'm walking. But what I've learned is as I'm losing the weight, it's inspiring me to just...

Keep going. By nature, I want to go walk and do more stuff because I'm fucking lighter. I feel better. So when the homie's like, you want to go play basketball? We're playing basketball three days a week now. Wow. You want to hear the coolest act of love, Joe? I'll try not to get emotional talking about this, but my whole band has watched me fight cocaine addiction. They watched me get off coke. They watched me get off lean. They've watched me figure my life out slowly. And they knew that the last mountain for me was food.

So we started putting a real structure around. I hired a real nutritionist. He's out here with me now. I mean, like, I'm only eating his food. I'm just like super with it. We're getting anything that could, you know, out of the green room. So I'm working out every day, walking around the arenas. And one day they have a basketball court because we're fucking playing. This is insane, by the way, that I'm playing fucking NBA arenas. And like, I'm playing where the fucking Orlando. I'm on Orlando Magic Court. Like, what the fuck? I feel like a fucking fat shack. But so the first day, it's just like me and like three or four dudes.

The crew heard, dude, the next day, 30. The whole crew showed up for me. And they don't, you know, these dudes are just, they're just there because they know it's helping me kind of. So now three days a week, we're renting basketball courts and having full-blown fucking tournaments. And it's been so good for me because it's like reconnecting to my childhood in this really weird way of like, I grew up in a community where there were basketball courts and we would all go play. You know what I mean? It's like, it's been really like,

It's been the best experience ever. And I'm getting to do it in like back to that weird shit. Not only are you experiencing this with your friends and people you love, and then you're doing it at the San Antonio Spurs court and the San Antonio Spurs coaches out there giving you pointers and fucking being the referee. That's amazing. And you're the Sacramento Kings coaches fucking shooting with you. You know what I mean? Yeah. Elon's right. This ain't real life. No. It can't be. It's unreal, dude. Leaving Nationwide Arena. But I was also telling Brigham,

Talking about the humility too is that I'm still nervous walking in here and we're friends.

And, you know, what you tell us all the time is what you told Bray. You know what he's going to tell you? We're just two friends talking. I was like, I know what 20 million motherfuckers listening, dog. I'm not falling for that. We're just two buddies talking shit. Don't look at the sun. That's it. You're right. You know how much I needed to hear that? Yeah. Especially like because I don't get in my head about stuff. But just this week was the first time the label called and said, hey, we don't want to. We want to put this on your radar because it might make you want to promote the record. You might have a number one album.

And I was like, whoa, dude, this shit wasn't even in my mind. When I had a number five album last year, you couldn't have told me I didn't have a number one album. You know what I'm saying? I was like, fuck you. Crazy. You know what I'm saying? What's in that? Water. This is coffee. That's water. Okay. Yeah, it's a wild experience, man. And if it's not real, boy, we picked a really good simulation.

It's been great, though, man. It's great to hear that you're on this positive track because it's all now just about momentum. It's just about staying on the course. That's what's hard for people is getting the good momentum. Yeah. I'm building the momentum. I had a moment the other day. I was telling Schultz this. It was a really small win, but for a food, lifelong food addict. Joe, I was up to 550-some pounds. I was having to weigh myself at meat places, you know, and

And I was telling him that I used to walk in and like a drug addict, I would scan the room and make a count of everything I could eat. You know what I mean? Like if you had like the little baby snickers and a little thing or did it does. And like the other day I was in my green room and somebody was in the green room and they picked up a piece of candy and said, did you want one of these? Because we just got hit hitting a dab or something. I didn't even know the candy was in there because normally they get the candy. They don't put shit like that in my room.

And that was the first time I was like, oh, I'm on to something. Like, I'm fucking winning right now. Right. Like, I didn't even notice. I could have been eating them for five hours. I didn't know. You know what I mean? I would have ate them all. I didn't even scan for candy. It's not even a thought now when I walk into places. Is there a candy dish here? You know what I mean? That used to be literally one of the first things I would look for.

You know, is there a candy dish here? I've had to make so many different small habit changes, but it's been the fucking... I was just telling Bubba out there, and I was telling Bruce on the way in here, I feel this good just losing 100 pounds, Joe, and I'm still... I've never told my weight, but I'm going to tell it here because I want some accountability from people. I'm 420-something now, 420, and...

Imagine I'm talking, I'm walking around different, talking different. My shoulders are setting different. I'm fucking my wife different. I'm just kind of, you know, I'm moving different. Bro, you probably have crazy powerful legs. Dude, it's crazy. I bet you have massive leg muscles. I've been going to the gym now.

Listen, dude, as much as you can fit on that thing, I'm throwing. Of course. Throwing. Think about it, man. You've been carrying around 500 pounds. Yeah, 500 plus. Your legs must be sturdy as fuck. And if you could lose weight now, you're going to have like super legs. Should I keep going? Joe, man, my goal is when I come back and do this next year, it's going to be fucking insane.

Like, I've never been more dialed in. I've never cared more about it. I've never been happier. What are you eating? Like, what has he got you eating? Oh, dude, man, he's here. He's actually been really killing it for me. So from eating bad for so many years, my gut has just been fucked.

So we've just been focusing on slowing down the gut. I'm only eating twice a day. I'm eating a fruit snack in between. Do you ever do any fasting? Mm-hmm. Yeah. I'm trying to fast one day a week now just to work on like the autophagy so somebody's skin cells so I won't be as full. I don't want to be saggy. You know what I mean? Because I'm going to lose that kind of weight. Do you know that story about that one dude that went on nothing but a vitamin IV drip for a year? For a year and lost 200-something pounds. I think he lost 300 pounds. Yeah, I've watched that story. Didn't he lose like 300 pounds?

Something crazy like that. The dude had no food for you just and his fat shrunk, but his skin shrunk, too. Yeah, that's what happens. It's called somebody told me and I could have the name wrong here, y'all, but it's called autophagy.

Have you heard of this? I think autophagy is when your body gets rid of all bad cells. This is like something that comes with fasting. Bad cells is definitely a scientific version of it. I think the way they explain it to me is that it has something to do with the elasticity of the skin, and that is what helps. So that's why one day a week, at least every other week, I'm just taking a full 24 hours of fasting.

But I'm only eating probably eight or nine hours a day now anyway, so I'm kind of intermittent anyways. That's the real bummer when people lose a lot of weight is that you got all this extra skin. Like Ethan Suplee, he had to have all that shit cut and stitched up. I've listened to that podcast with him twice in the past.

in the last 90 days. Y'all's full three-hour podcast is first here. Just to kind of, I love the way he thinks. Yeah. It's just, you know. He's a brilliant guy. I love, for me, I'm always looking for like inspiration. As a songwriter, we're always writing a song. You know, as a comedian, you're always looking for a joke. You know what I mean? So that kind of

I'm always looking for that. So when I found that pod, I was like, oh, this dude. And he kind of did what I would... How he looks now is a dream scenario for me. He didn't get, like, crazy big, but he doesn't look, like, saggy sick. Because sometimes when you go from being as big as we've gotten, you get down to 300 pounds and people start looking at you like, are you okay? And you're like, I'm fucking better than I've ever been. You know what I mean? They're worried. Yeah, they're worried. But they just couldn't imagine. You know what I mean? Even when I just told...

I always forget his name, but your guy out there, the archer guy, worked at the archery store. Great guy. But I was just telling him that I am. Yeah. Same thing. Same same concept. Yeah. If you just keep going, you know, it'll become normal for you to not eat candy. Normal for you to eat healthy food. It'll be what you crave. Lots of protein, lots of bone broth kind of potatoes, right?

Anything that we're doing, whether it's rice or bone broth, we're not doing a lot of it. But when we do it, we're soaking it in bone broth, keeping it really clean protein style, kind of going low on fats to kind of let my liver kind of reset from just years of me eating foods, fatty foods and shitty greases. You know what I mean? So just been kind of taking it slow, man. I'm enjoying it, though. The cool thing is he did Bilal Muhammad's weight cut. He's worked with DC. I found him from that world.

So he really gets it. That's a complicated science. Yeah, yeah. You get those guys like Bilal's way over 170. I don't know what he weighs, but I've got to guess he's close to 200 pounds. Yeah. And he cuts down to 170 perfectly. Yeah, Ian does it every time. It's pretty effortless, man. Ian says that out of everybody that Bilal is just –

insanely disciplined. You know what I mean? Like when he goes into camp, he's like a different dude. Well, that dude does, he's done camp in Ramadan and you know, you can't eat or drink anything during the daylight hours of Ramadan. So he would have to get up in the morning while it was dark out, have a morning breakfast, go to training, not eat anything.

Do it to a D, probably. And no water. And you're training. And then at the end of the day, then you get to eat. No, he's a machine. That dude is complete. That Leon Edwards fight was crazy. I get to see him tomorrow.

He's a great guy, man. He's a great guy. He really is. And, you know, the fact that he's that devout a Muslim that he, you know, prays five times a day. Like, he doesn't fuck around. Like, he's really by the book. He doesn't even swear. No, he says fudge. Yeah. Jelly, jelly, jelly. What the fudge are you doing? Yeah. Crazy. When are you coming to fudge in Chicago?

It's ridiculous. He's like this assassin and he, you know, I'm going to get to see the two champs tomorrow or I'll get to see him and I'll get to see the Venezuelan Vixen. They're both coming. So him and Juliana are coming out to the show. Chicago. Yeah, I'm super excited, man. Nice. Album release night, Chicago, United Center. First time at the United Center. Nice. Big deal for me. Chicago is always a great fucking town.

What's the comedy club down there? Well, they have a few. They have, what do they have, Zany's in Chicago. They have another one in Rosemont. The Dorfman brothers don't have nothing to do with that one, though, do they? No. I don't know. They never know. That doesn't make sense if they don't. Did you hear what they did to the Nashville Zany's? So, you know, Brian and them own that building. And through the back bar, so, you know, Zany's door is here, the front door. Not the door we go through, the front door. Whatever that place was right here.

He's turned that into a place called The Lab now. And it's like a 50 person smaller. It would be like the little boy. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. Like the little boy. So he calls it The Lab at Zany's now. Oh, that's nice. Yeah, it's super. It's really, really cool. They used to have a really good room at the Improv in Hollywood. They called The Lab. And that's where Ari started. This is not happening, which became that Comedy Central show.

You know, the storyteller show? That all started in that lab. That was Ari's little baby that he created. The old way the improv used to be set up was amazing. You have the big room, and then you have this tucked away small room in the back with a very small bar. But then they expanded it and made the bar bigger and made the stage by the door. They fucked the whole thing up. The whole thing's fucked now. It used to be the stage was in the back. There wasn't a lot of noise in the room.

And then they turned it into a bar and fucked it up. But at that time, that was what it was called. It was called The Lab. Yeah. No, this place, they call it The Lab. It's beautiful. Speaking of that show, God, I'd love to see that show back. That show was so good. Yeah. You know what happened with that? You know how it all went down? Ari got an offer from Netflix to do a special. You know, he actually filmed his special.

And Comedy Central wanted it because he was on Comedy Central. But Netflix was better for him. And they were pissed that he was going to do the special on Netflix. So they fired him. And he's like stuck to his guns. And then Roy Wood took over and he did it for a while. And that was the end of it. But that's why. It was because Ari wouldn't listen to that. They were trying to force him into doing a special on Comedy Central.

Yeah, and he's like, no. Like, I don't have a contract that I have to do it on Comedy Central. This is crazy. And they tried to use the show. They did use the show. They fired him. How fucking petty is that? They fired him. And not to say Roy Woods didn't do great with the show, but... Roy Woods is great. I mean, Ari was happy that Roy Woods took over. Because, first of all, Roy's hilarious. Great comic. But also, that meant all the people that were working on the show got to work. Ari was going to take out a loan...

And he was going to pay all the people, all the camera people, all the crew. He was going to pay everybody their salary. Just because he felt bad. He felt bad. And it was like, this is not what I want. This is not my fault. But they're forcing me into it. And by principle, I can't just give in and say, okay, I'm going to do this at Comedy Central. But just for us having fun today purposes, okay?

Imagine if that show came back right now with Ari. It could. It could come back. And the explosion that's happening right now. Well, Ari should do the show on Netflix. It's his show. I would...

He called it, now he calls it Ari Shaffir's Renamed Storyteller Show. I think that's what he calls it. He still does it. It's on Netflix now? No, no, no. I said he should do it on Netflix. But he'll still do live ones every now and then. He does live storyteller shows. No, he should do it, man. I think about guys like Brian. I would cry laughing to hear whatever his...

story was. I think about the Joey Diaz, the Mother Mary story. If you don't go into that, you know, like there are stories on there that. Yeah. Everybody's got good stories too. People have stories of some fucking nutty thing that happened on the road or what have you. No, it's crazy. I'd love to start seeing people in my genre try stuff like that more. If they ever did it, just try to like, I'd love to hear, you know, Jason Aldean tell a story. You know what I mean? If he really, if he got with somebody backstage, like one,

one of the homies. You know what I'm saying? Like if Rosebud was back there with him and was like, all right, tell me your best story and I'll punch it up. You know what I mean? I think Jason Daldin would at least kill a six-minute story. You know what I'm saying? Everybody's got at least one good story. One that you could concoct. Yeah, one that you could figure out. Put it together the right way. Yeah. Yeah, I think that's probably, really is probably the oldest form of human entertainment. It's funny how, I love when anything you talk about has a theme. And this one has been storytelling. And that's, um,

It's all I ever wanted to do. Before I was writing songs, because I knew that music could be written that way, I would just write these kind of stories for my mother. You know what I mean? I would just try to... You know the story. We've talked about it a lot. But it was a way to connect with her, even before music. And then when I found out music was her shit, I was like, oh, this is the double connection. Like, oh, this is...

I'm doubling down on this. And I still to this day think I'm writing for my mama. Wow. Like to this day, I'm still like when I'm really finishing a song, I'm thinking to myself, I wonder what my mama would think about this, you know, in this really weird way. Like first thought, like I wonder mama like this, you know, does this represent? And then the second thought is why does this song exist? That's always my second following thought is first of all, I was like, well, my mama dig it. And then the second is, you know what I mean? It's like, and the second is like,

Why does this exist, though? You know what I mean? What could it do? What purpose could it actually serve? And if it's a it could be anything as much as it's just, you know, it just makes me happy or it could make people happy or it could make people move is enough of a reason. Out of these 100 plus songs you've written recently, how many of them you think you'll ever record? I recorded probably 30 something of them. Wow. I'm going to put out probably 28. And I think four or five will probably end up.

circulating next year through other artists that'll just cut some of the songs that just because sometimes i'll write a song show but i'm just not the vessel and i know it when i'm writing it you know what i mean um do you hear it in a different voice like sometimes sometimes but sometimes you just know that it's like i couldn't sing this with a certain amount of conviction you know like for me personally you know it's not that i couldn't um you know uh

It's I don't know. I don't know if this is a good comparison, but it'd be like I could write a song about hating my wife, but I could never sing it because I don't really hate my wife. Right. I could never sing it with conviction. Now, as an as a songwriter, do I have the skill set to write a song about hating my wife? For sure. But would I ever sing one and represent myself that way? And it's just not just I couldn't sing it with conviction. But there might be a guy in Nashville who just got his heart broke.

Well, you know Colter Wall's Kate McKinnon. That's the mother of all I Hate My Wife songs. Oh, yeah. Insane. That's a crazy song. And the fact that that dude was 21 when he sang that, you're like, what? It sounds like he's 58. I believe in reincarnation. I'm telling you, man. There's no other way. That doesn't make sense. And if his story couldn't get any cooler, it's that he just doesn't give a fuck. Doesn't give a fuck. Won't do podcasts. For sure. I tried so hard. It's crazy. Yeah.

Crazy, dude. He told Post Malone. Post Malone hit him up, and Post was like, hey, man, I'd love to work. And pretty much he was like, yeah, if you ever want to come to the ranch, we can maybe write a song or something. Post was like, if you want to fly to the middle of Canada, we can write a song. But if you think I'm getting off this ranch to write with you, fuck no. Yeah, he really works on a ranch. Yeah. That's how Cody Johnson is, too, though. Cody Johnson flies out on the... I joke with him all the time. I'm like, you're a cowboy that plays a country music singer on the weekends. You like...

Because, you know, I mean, he plays music for real, but he literally goes home and ranches Monday through Thursday. You'll FaceTime this dude, and he'll be out just in his ranch somewhere tagging cattle. That's amazing. You know what I mean? And then Friday night, he'll fly and go sell out, you know, two nights at the Staples Center Friday and Saturday. I have not experienced any of that, but I swear to God, it resonates with you when you watch it on Yellowstone. Yeah, right? Right.

Like, I want to live like that. So bad. I want to hang out with the horses. Seems like a good time. Seems like everybody's all peaceful and shit. We'll stay up and watch the rodeo late at night because PBR plays on TV or whatever. Dude, I'll watch that stuff. I don't know much about it, but I just can't quit watching. I think it's the wildest shit ever. Yeah, I'll watch it for bursts, but then my knowledge of orthopedic surgeries that these people are going to be receiving and injuries and concussions, they're just like, I got to stop watching this.

I love watching stuff that doesn't seem real, though, right? Have you seen the, is it J.B. Mooney? Is that how you say his name? Yeah. Or is it Mooney? Mooney, right? I think it's Mooney. Yeah. Is it Mooney or Mooney? You got me thinking now. Yeah, me too. But that dude, he owns the cow that retired him. It's crazy. How cool is that? Yeah, pretty cool. Yeah, but we're talking about a dude that, you know, with no helmet.

Cigarette lit in his mouth. Animal. Like, oh, just when you look at... Animal. Those dudes riding bulls with no helmet on is the craziest fucking American thing that anyone's ever done. That is so dumb and so amazing at the same time. Like, what the fuck are you doing? It is so American, dude. Especially when you had the cigarette, you're just like... It almost looked like it was out of a movie. Like somebody overcooked it.

And at the end, those guys are always broken. Everything's broken. We had a dude on Fear Factor that was a bull rider, and one of his arms, his shoulder had just giant scars all over the place. He had five or six shoulder reconstructions. It pops out sometimes. He has to pop it back in. That is... Jeez. Sick. It's crazy.

It's crazy. All from riding a... A giant 2,000-pound animal that doesn't want you riding it. With horns. Yeah. And when it gets you off of it, it wants to hurt you afterwards. It wants to stomp you. It's pissed off. Yeah, man. Fuck all that noise. I can't quit watching them, though. I don't know why. I'm just so attracted. I've always been attracted. I loved songs about rodeos, though, is what did it. We talked about this before, too. There was 90s music, had all these old-school, really cool rodeo records. And I feel like...

It's kind of like everything goes in themes, and then country music went through the hunting and fishing era. But in the 70s, it was more of the storytelling era, like the poncho and lefty style stuff. You know what I mean? But to me, the 90s cowboy music was still some of the best country music ever made. Bro, you know who's got the best rodeo song for my money? Zach Bryan. Open the Gate. Oh, it's one of the best rodeo songs ever written. Oh, my God. 100%. Oh, my God.

Meanwhile, I'm listening to him going, get off that bull. Don't go ride that bull. Don't do it. Your dad's dead. Don't ride the same goddamn bull that killed your dad. Jesus Christ. You want to hear a cool rodeo story? Reba McIntyre got discovered at one. At a rodeo? You want to talk about a real cowgirl? Reba McIntyre was like Oklahoma or somewhere, and she would sing the national anthem at all the local rodeos because they knew she was a local singer, but she was a real cowboy.

so one night she was she was singing oh this is you know back in the day when it was old school like a record exec discovered you you know what i mean and like flew you to nashville and signed you to a record deal that's a true story though reba was just like did it because she loved it like like if you were singing in church she just every weekend they'd have the rodeo in town and she'd go sing the national anthem for wow how many people are like that out there when you think about yourself becoming like artist of the year at 39

How many people are like that out there? That are just super talented. They just never get that crack. It's man. There's a thing that's inside some people. There's a thing that's inside some people.

And it's different in everybody. Like, you're different is different than Colter Wall's different. It's different than Reba's different. Different than Johnny Cash is different. Everybody's got that thing. Everybody's got a thing. But there's so many people out there that we never get to see that thing. Yeah. I wonder how much of it is the ones that just jump ship early, too, though. They quit. Yeah. A lot of people quit. It's hard. I think about doing something for 10 years to no avail. Right. It's really, really hard, man. This is what I tell people. I was a desperate, delusional dreamer, Joe.

And everything I regret, I did out of desperation. But I don't regret one thing I did as a delusional dreamer. You know what I mean? Because there was moments we were we were I did this. I went to the juvenile yesterday in Columbus, Ohio. I went to go play cards with the kids in their units before my show. I try to do stuff like that all the time. And we were all talking about, you know, time, energy, stuff into this and songs. And I talk about writing 170 songs last year.

And I was like, do y'all know that there was so many moments in my life where I, in hindsight, I'm glad nobody sat me down really, that I had to have looked fucking crazy. You know, that kid asked me, he said, when did you feel like you made it? I was like, I think that's why God kept blessing me is that me and DJ Highlight, that's my DJ from Columbus, Ohio. He was there with me. We did the one o'clock slot at Rock on the Range 12 years ago, right? The festival, you know, Rock on the Range, Jamie. This is a big deal where Jamie's from.

We played the fifth stage of five stages. So we played the smallest stage there. 30 minutes after they opened the gates.

Joe, we started drinking at 10 o'clock that morning because we were rock stars in our minds. We had made it. We were that delusional. We were backstage, full-blown shooting shots and celebrating. There was 40 people there. There was thousands of people just walking right past our stage to the stage they were going to. We didn't care. We had made it. You know what I mean? You're telling me we got $1,500 to do this? This is insane. We have arrived.

And I'd go home, my old beat-up band in my whole neighborhood probably had to look at me like I was fucking nuts. You know what I'm saying? But nobody said nothing to me. I had to look like the crazy person kind of, right? At this point, I'm in my early 30s, mid-30s even, and they're like, all right, big guy. But you're at Rock on the Range. Yeah. That's how I felt. You actually are performing there. That's how I felt. I think you're correct. Yeah, I felt that way. I think you should be celebrating. Yeah. You're supposed to be. Yeah. And when I told that kid that it was cool to see his face kind of light up, he was like, man, that's perspective. You know what I mean? I was like, dude, I was...

I would celebrate whenever I would get a clap in here when I was in juvenile, when we would have freestyle Fridays in juvenile. And if I had, if I spit one line that got a, Ooh, man, I went to my cell, did pushups and started looking in the mirror. Different. You know what I'm saying? I was like, it's fucking fixing to happen. Right. You know, that kind of delusional just celebrate every, every moment I had. I made a moment. What is this? This is the day. Look at you up there. Yeah. This is us.

This is a true story. Definitely. Rock on the range. This is rock on the range, dude. This is 2017, probably. Wow. Yeah. This was our second time. I think we'd made it to the second stage by then. Yeah, this is 16. Yep, this is the second time. It's weird doing shows when it's bright out. Yeah, it's...

I'm just getting used to doing shows when it's dark. I know. Shows when it's bright out are kind of crazy. Dude, it is unforgiving. Especially when you're trying to work and you're trying to build something. There's a lot of people that are coming to give you a chance.

Yeah. But they don't know anything about you. Well, the thing is, if you could figure it out, right? People figure out everything. They figure out how to write books. They figure out how to play baseball. People figure it out. But not everybody figures it out. That's why it's so exciting when you do. That's why it's so exciting when you make it. Because you know it's not just that a bunch of lucky things had to happen to you. Because they all do with all of us. There's a lot of good circumstances to happen your way just to keep you alive, right? You have to get lucky. Yeah.

But then you also have to have that thing. Like, what is that thing inside you that you got to get out? And you can figure out a way to get the best version of it and display it for people. Or you quit. A lot of people quit. Man, I tell you, there's a line in the song, Joe, that it's an old song. It's called Just Breathe. And she goes, the end of the song, she ends the song by going, 2 a.m. and I'm still awake writing this song. Because if I get it all out on paper, it's no longer inside of me, threatening the life it belongs to.

Almost get emotional when I tell people that because to me that is the greatest line ever written as to how I feel Yeah, you know what? I mean like this idea that I have to get this out of me. It's like I don't When I write it's not like I'm I have to it's like a thing in me that's burning in me It's like I have to get this out of me whether I wake up out I wrote I wrote that somebody saved me on a sheet of paper out of a dead sleep and

Really? Notebook side of the bed. Just like I wrote notes here with you when you'd say something that would inspire me. One of these is a song title right here, right now. You said it earlier. I'll tell you off camera. Okay. In case we've got to negotiate a publishing thing. I wrote a song on the album. It didn't make the album, but Burt one night said something. He was like, yeah, man, this is where dreams go to die.

And he was talking about a bar he used to go to where everybody would talk about what they would do but never did. So he quit talking about what he was going to do. But what he don't know is I just quietly grabbed my phone and wrote, dreams die here. You know what I'm saying? I went and wrote the song. It sucked. I'm going to send it to him. But I tried. You know what I'm saying? And never maybe revisited it a year or two. Yeah. But I connect with that in a way that's writing is an outlet for me. It always was. It was always a way to express myself.

And to tell stories around me. It's also a connection to some strange realm where ideas come from. Ideas that come to you, they just come to you out of nowhere. They just feel like gifts. They really do. Like when you're sitting in front of the computer and an idea just comes to you and you start writing it down. Or when you wake up in the middle of the night, take a leak and you can't get this idea out of your head and you got to grab a notebook. Man, those things are gifts. They're gifts from the universe. Oh.

You've had that happen too where you find yourself at the kitchen table at 3 a.m.? The worst one is I try to convince myself that I'll remember it. And you go back to sleep and you'll blow it. Yeah, because I'm lazy. I'm like, you're going to remember. Don't worry about it. You'll definitely remember that. You don't remember it? No, no, no. I remember like one of them ever. But I write them down now. I do too. I got a small legal pad beside my bed, like the little one. And I got one. This is a crazy place. But I have one on top of my commode.

That's a good place for it. So in case I'm going in there to pee or something and on the way there just. Yeah. Sometimes too I'll have to grab my phone and do melodies in the middle of the night because I have dreamed of melodies before. Like you hear it. Like stone cold melodies in my dreams. Like the Somebody Save Me melody was in my dream. The first words. The problem was me and D-Ray joke about it. It took us two hours to write the song that would have took us 20 minutes to write because I was convinced Somebody Save Me was supposed to be the chorus.

Interesting. I know I'm weird when I talk about stuff like this, Joe, but this is how the universe works. I don't think I was wrong. Because when Eminem ended up taking that song, you know Eminem redid that song? Oh. Yeah, you got to hear it. It's crazy. Eminem redid the song. And he took the verse from Somebody Save Me, the first verse, and made it the chorus. Wow.

So his version of it is he's rapping and then my first verse is the chorus. And then he raps again and my first verse is the chorus again. So maybe I was kind of right. Wow. In the groom, I kept going back to like, you should start this way. Did you ever tell him that before you did that? Never even told him the story. Wow. Joe, I'm fucking flipping. It gets even deeper, dog. John Meneally, my manager, calls me and goes, he says, Paul Rosenberg just called me. That's Em's manager. He says, I think Eminem wants to do something to save me. I didn't.

I asked John Manili right then, Joe, I said, man, I hope he takes the first verse and samples it. That's all I said. And John said, whatever. I don't know what he wants to do with it. We just send it over. Cause you know, Eminem is the greatest ever. You don't send them instructions or notes or ideas. You know what I'm saying? You're just like, yo. And, uh, we didn't talk about that until we met and he was just as whipped out too. Cause the funny part about him was, uh,

He was struggling with whether or not he was going to keep the original course and do somebody save me at the end or do somebody save me as the course and put the original course at the end. And he ended up doing somebody save me in the original course. So he fought the battle the opposite of the way I fought it. It's crazy, right? How art works that way. It is crazy. It's crazy where those things come from. The muse, you know, and.

You've got to respect the muse. I think when you're writing a lot like you are, that muse is ready to go. You're tuned into whatever that is that gives you those ideas for songs. You're in the mode of searching for it. Yeah, you're right. I'm in that space. I'm in my stride. I'm in my quest. I'm looking for it at every angle right now. I'm like...

I wrote a song. I wrote so many. It's talking about storytelling again. Sorry, I keep going here. It's my fucking storytelling podcast. I probably have four songs on this podcast that I wrote just very old school storytelling. Like the music I grew up loving, like how Willie Nelson would tell these stories and these characters. And it has been so... Talking about muses, I wasn't sure if I was going to tell this story, but I will. I...

As a part of my journey, my mental health and with things I struggle with, I will pop into when I'm home in a or a meetings, even though I still drink smoke pot. I don't claim to be a part of the program because I have so much respect for those who are sober, like can really live the clean, sober life by the program. But it's helped me so much not to go back to some of my demons. It's taught me about gratitude lists. It's just helped me a lot. And I go to, you know, a few a year, never say nothing, just sitting back quietly. I'm just in there trying to learn, you know.

Never never went in there thinking like an artist just kind of just just kind of going there thinking like an addict So I just want to be an addict in here That's why I don't talk and I watched a man Having a breakdown in there and this happens, you know what I mean? People are coming to here and you know, I mean it's an a a meeting right and he's shaking and at the end they go does anybody want to get a 24-hour chip or a desire to change the guy said I drank this morning, but I do have a desire and he was already shaking where he hadn't drank in five six hours and the guy goes

Old head walks over. Most gangster shit I've ever seen. Puts his arm around him and says, I'm sorry, baby. None of us came in here on a winning streak. Dude, I was like, I had no intention of going to this meeting. The only reason I even went, believe it or not, wasn't because I was having a craving even. I had an hour to kill on the way to a writing session. And I was like, well, fuck it. I could either spend this hour scrolling on fucking TikTok and thinking about how fucking Ukraine's going to kill us or...

You know what I mean? Yeah. And I went into the meeting and I left and I walked in the writer's room and they was like, you know, it's fun when we write together because everybody's got an idea. I said, boys, I don't know if this is the idea, but I want to tell you what just happened to me. I just seen one of the most beautiful acts of humanity I've ever seen. Just the money. Cause this guy's shaking. He's crying.

And this dude's walking. I'm getting emotional because I'm watching it. The whole room's getting emotional. This dude just super cool just kind of walks over with a look like a almost like I've seen this before. He was he was the only one that all of us were sad. This dude was happy. He walked over to smile like he'd seen it. He was like, oh, don't worry, baby. Nobody comes in here on a windy street.

And so I did some, I went back to the meeting a week later. We started the song. The guy ended up being like 25, 30 years clean. They came in to help the other guy. Wow. So we wrote the song. It's called Winning Streak. It's fucking, I've sung it on Saturday Night Live. Wow. It was cool. It's not even out yet. It'll be out on the album today. Imagine if you didn't walk into that place. Imagine if you didn't walk into that place, right? Yeah.

Just old church basement. How much time have you lost on your phone where you could have been walking into a place, talking to people? And getting winning streak. Yeah. You know what I mean? It's like just, you know. Especially as an artist that deals in, you know, to say it again, stories. Yeah. And just, you know, you find things out about people when you see them interact with each other. And sometimes it just lights a spark. Yeah. It's just, man, you, um.

Yeah, anytime I see anything that makes me feel something, I feel the need to try to write it. Whether it makes me happy or sad or, you know what I mean? If you really think about, like, old school rock and roll, like, think of, like, classic rock, there's great songs, but then there's these story songs, you know? Yeah.

Like Shooting Star, that Bad Company song. Johnny was a schoolboy when he heard his first Beatles song. That's one of those songs that everybody listens to the words. You just get caught up in the story. There's a difference between that and just fun songs. There's fun songs, back and black. Fun. It's not like a story, like an emotional story that gets you. There's some of those songs, you know?

American Pie. American Pie. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. I listen to it once a week in the cold plunge because the original version is like seven minutes. Yeah. So if I start it while I'm getting into my skibbies, song's over, I get out of the cold plunge. Yeah. But it's that song. Yeah.

Dude. How about James Taylor, I've Seen Fire and I've Seen Rain? The greatest song ever written, Joe. The greatest song ever written. Don't listen to that song when you're sad. Dog. I'll cry if I'm happy, bubba. Bro, that song will get you. Every time. That song will get you. And that's a story, too. And that motherfucker had a voice. Man, he had a voice. What a special voice. And it was so effortless, Joe. Yeah. He, um...

When he opened his mouth, it was almost like he was just talking to you like me and you, but he would sing like an angel. And you know, he was self-taught guitar, so he plays like shapes and chords that don't really technically exist. Really? He literally, because he self-taught himself, they'd be like, well, that's kind of a, it looks like a G, but you're doing this. It's not that. It's like, it was crazy. He's authentic. My father, who I named buddies after in my bar, we were driving down to Gulf Shores, Alabama one time.

And I was a kid and we started listening to Fire and Rain. And he starts, my family would tell these stories about music. I don't know what it was, but before they would play a song, it was like they would take, and I'm like this to this day, I would take great pride in being like, oh, I'm fixing to show you something. So I'd give you the setup, you know? So my dad goes, I'm not going to set this song up. I'm going to tell you about it afterwards. We're going to listen to it again. There he goes. Give me it from the beginning, Jamie. This motherfucker. Yeah.

So, look at him, all this long hair. That was before he went bald. When he went bald, he said, fuck it. Yeah, that was Hey Mr. Jukebox, James. Um...

Bro, that guy could not have a fly swatter big enough to swat those panties that were flying at him. What? He could not. Just whack. At every corner, dude. Oh, my God. And listen. Voice like an angel. All sensitive. In Hot Take, he was married to a woman that is arguably a better songwriter than him. Carly Simon. Carly Simon was so beautiful. God, when she was young, she was one of the most beautiful women that's ever lived.

I love that none of that mattered to him, though. Watch this. So my dad tells me this story, Joe, and we are riding down I-65. I've only seen my father cry three times. Give me some more of this, Jamie. Yeah. And we are going down I-65, and we are squalling. I mean, like two children, Joe. Just authentic, you know what I mean? There's no bullshit in this song. The third verse when he goes, yeah, you got to let this rip, man. Oh, yeah.

It's a core memory I'll have forever though. When I watch this. To me, this is some of the best, the whole song, but right here. So simple, but real. It'll turn your head around.

Now watch him take it up right here. I always thought that I'd see you somehow

Ooh. Damn.

So good. It's crazy. What a team, him and Carly Simon. Think about that. What was... Bro, You're So Vain. Oh, my goodness. Pull that shit up. Give me a You're So... And seeing her sing it with that bass. Oh, my God. God. Oh, my God. What a great song, too. He toured with Carole King forever, right? Do they ever have a relationship? Hopefully. Right? You're talking about another great songwriter. God, dude. Here we go.

While she's playing the piano, son. With her hair blowing. So 80s. In the wind. Yes. This pre-chorus is crazy. You're so vain. You think this song is about you.

But hold on, hold on. Because if the song was about him, he's right. Yeah, right? For sure. You know, Warren Beatty was listening to that song going, I think this song is about me. Oh, yeah. I knew I was him. And that's live back when they were like, you know, that was live, live. That might be one of the first diss songs. Right? Right? I think that's the first diss track. Hold on, hold on. When was the song put out? Is it officially about Warren Beatty? I thought rumors that it was about James Taylor, too. Because...

Oh, really? I thought it's unconfirmed who it's written about. James Taylor, man. You know what, man? It wouldn't shock you, right, if you found out that the guy was like the sweetheart, super nice guy was actually a fucking psycho. Dude, I've had, talking about James Taylor, I've had fans come up to me and they would be crying. And they go, I'm so sorry I'm crying. And every time I tell them the same thing, I say, don't worry. If I ever meet James Taylor, I'm going to cry.

For sure. I know it. So I'd be like 100%. I'm going to cry. Ever since the singer released her accusatory track in 1972, the identity of you has remained one of the greatest mysteries in music history. But she did date Warren Beatty, right? It came out in 72? When did Sweet Home Alabama come out?

Look at all the possibilities. Warren Beatty. Michael Crichton. Michael Crichton. Jack Nicholson. Cat Stevens. Damn, Chris. James Taylor. Or John Travolta. Even rumored flings with Sean Connery. Marvin Gaye. Marvin Gaye. Mick Jagger. Possibility of Mick Jagger. I bet Marvin Gaye did something different with that. That lady got around. She got around with all the talented motherfuckers. She got around. I bet Marvin Gaye was a monster. Oh, my God. I'm just fucking...

When did Sweet Home Alabama come out? So you know Sweet Home Alabama was a clapback track. Yeah. It was in the diss world, too. So I think it was right around that early 70s era, too. Yeah. So it was after that. Your Sylvain came out before it. Yeah. But when did Southern Man come out? Probably the same time, right? It was just a year before. So that was 1970? Yeah. Oh, no. So it was a few years before. Okay.

So they wrote it about Southern Man? Is that what they wrote it about? Yeah. Yeah, the idea was, and Neil Young was speaking a lot about what was happening down there in the South at the time, and Ronnie's position was just simply like, hey, man, we stay the fuck out of your business. Stay out of ours. Yeah. You know, a Southern Man don't need them around anyhow. Yeah. You know, it's kind of how he came back up. What a...

banger of a song. What a banger. What a dis- What a banger. You're talking about- That is a sweet home. Give me some of that. Yeah, please. God damn, that's a good song. I mean, all respect to Neil Young. That's better than anything he's ever done in his life. No, no. Neil Young apologized later. It was really cool. He owned it. He publicly said Ronnie was right. Well, you know, some-

Yeah. Neo Young's name checked and dissed. Yeah, I don't think they thought about it that way back then. It reached number eight in the Billboard Hot 100. Give me some Sweet Home Alabama. That's a song that you hear in the bar in the first couple of chords play, and you go, oh, yeah. You just immediately stand up. You're like, oh, we're from the party. Oh, baby. And I hate to be this guy, but I immediately look around, and I'm like, everybody in here who doesn't know this song...

I don't know that we can be friends. You can't at least sing the chorus, or if you don't go... This might be one of the most recognizable songs ever. Is there going to be a live video, too? I'd just like to go for the live one, especially this one. I love it. Once again, look at these bad motherfuckers. Oh, they were so funny. You want to talk about people that couldn't get the pussy away from them. And they're from Florida. Yeah.

That's 77, so that's Ronnie. Oh, no, that's Johnny. Once again, how great Gary Rossington was.

To me, he's the greatest guitarist that ever lived. Up there with Hendrix and them. He's a Mount Rushmore guitarist. Because I can't name another guitarist, Clapton, of course, that has more riffs that you want to go, you want to hum. Right. Right? Because like... Yo, the Freebird solo. Yeah.

You know what I'm saying? Dude, think about it. Give me three steps. Yeah. You're like, you can, there has not been that since, if you ask me. You know what I mean? Like, him, Clapton, Hendrix, like, they had those kind of guitars. But this was different because it was riffs. Right. It wasn't like a solo. They were singing over these riffs. Right. And the riffs were bigger than the melody sometimes. Right.

They captured you. If you tell somebody right now, like, have you ever heard the song Sweet Home Alabama? And they go, how's it go? You wouldn't go sweet. You'd go...

Yeah. It's crazy. That's how good Gary was, man. That solo in Free Bird is insane. Oh, it is. It's the best solo ever. Ever. It's hard to say because of Hendrix and Steve Ray Vaughan and a bunch of other people, Eddie Van Halen. But that solo was the same every time they did it. Oh, the story about Sweet Home Alabama. Yeah.

They're sitting at a sound check and it's just Ronnie and Gary. And Gary's holding electric. And he goes, man, I got this. I just don't know what to do with it. It's... And Ronnie goes, well, hell, just keep playing it. Let me fuck with it. So they just looped that. And that's how they wrote the song. Yeah, dude. I'm such a... I have like...

Skinner to me is like Jesus. You know what I'm saying? I'm a giant Skinner fan. And you know what I love about Skinner too? They came out of Florida. Who would have saw that? No, dude, Jacksonville. Who would have saw that? Straight out of Jacksonville, Florida. Jacksonville? What? Jacksonville's not going to make any amazing bands? Dude. How does this band come out of Jacksonville? Period. And every song is about running away from girls.

I gotta go, ladies. I gotta be free. Give me two steps. I love you, but I gotta go. It's crazy. You know what I'm saying? I gotta go. I gotta go. No, dude, they were the best, man. When Gary's family gave me that guitar after he passed away, it still is up there with my top probably 10 possessions that I've ever been gifted. You know what I mean? I have it in my studio now, and I hung it in a case with the note that his family wrote me with the picture that we took the night he played the guitar.

And I put a lock on the case. Instead of just casing it forever, I put a lock on it so I can still play it.

So when we do the album, there's a couple of tracks that we played a Gary Rossington guitar on. Oh, wow. You know what I mean? Because it was a Gary Rossington played guitar. Wow. And his family, the estate gave it to me right after he passed. Does it sound different? Well, it's an old Les Paul and it's older, so it's got a different pickup on it. So it's got some different tunes and textures to it. What's the difference between like the older pickups and the newer ones? I don't know. I'm not as educated in it as most like real guitarists. I'm a campfire guitarist.

But it's, you know, over the years, they always found different ways to make them. So they were, as they were improving them, but the sounds and textures were getting different. So, but I forgot exactly what he does. Cause he takes a pickup from another guitar and puts it into, I think in a most of his guitars. Cause there's a lot of real guitarists that are like, they'll want to play this guitar, but they'll want to put this from this guitar on this guitar. Cause that's their shit. Yeah. Cause they like the way, well, I like the pickup on this or I like this in this, or I like the way this, you know, whatever makes sense. And then they'll have a kind of hodgepodge like that.

But you know something else? When Gary survived that plane crash, let's think about him playing guitar. He had a rod that went from right here, Joe, to his elbow. Oh, my God. And still played the guitar that way. So if you ever watched Gary play the guitar, he always kind of played it high like Charlie Crockett. Or down here like this because he couldn't full-blown get full extension on the wrist. Yeah. So he was playing all those...

From 70, whatever the 70... When was the plane crash? Jamie, you know? I figured you might know off the top of my head. How many people died in the crash? I know Ronnie did for sure. I think it was two or three. Wasn't Ronnie standing up? It was in 77, so...

So that video you just showed might have been one of Ronnie's last performances. He was standing up when the plane crashed, right? He went and sat down. He was drinking. Yeah, they were just partying. They were just Leonard Skinner-ing, dude. You know what I'm saying? If he sat down and put his seatbelt on, he might still be here. It's crazy, dude. It is crazy, man. Damn. You said it was 77? Three days after their fifth album was released. Yeah. Street Survivors. Wow. Just totally different, man. I've...

I've gotten so far into there. We've been covering Skinner on the road for years and years anyway. That's probably not a Skinner song I can't play. You know, right? If we were to go to a bar tonight, you could probably just randomly pick a Skinner song and I'd go up there and be able to just kill. Just love Skinner, dude. You know what I mean? It's just...

They were awesome, man. They were gone too quick. And I know they toured after Ronnie died, but it wasn't the same. You know the reason? They still tour. One thing I don't, as a die-hard fan, I don't object to it a lot. Now that Gary's gone, it's a little rougher because he was the last living one.

But Johnny Van Zandt, which how are him and Ronnie Keene? I always confuse it. They're cousins, right? Are they brothers? Because remember the three Van Zands. Do I want to talk about a family, Joe? Johnny, Ronnie Van Zandt created Leonard Skinner was the first lead singer. Johnny Van Zandt took his pot when he died. And the other Van Zandt brothers, the lead singer of 38 special. Crazy. Yeah, it's the younger brother. So his younger brother took right over.

And like I tell people is there's the average Leonard Skinner fan. That's not like me and you like obsessed with them to a degree. They don't know anybody other than him to be their singer because he's been their singer 44 years longer than Ronnie was. That band was only been out for four years when Ronnie died. Right. You know what I mean? So it's like an ACDC type thing. Exactly. You know what I mean? So it's like, and the fact that it's a true Van Zant and Johnny's still the lead man to this day.

So when I go see him, I still feel like I'm watching Ronnie a little bit. Looks just like him. Still got the same long hair. He's Johnny Van Zandt, dude. You know what I mean? Ronnie was a fucking psycho, though. No, that's the difference. Johnny's like a really, really calm, cool man. He's also...

Now, you know, these dudes are all... Ricky Medlock and them, he was with the original group, too, pretty much. He's still there. Them dudes are all in their 70s. Yeah, and that's nuts, too, because when we were kids, we never thought that rock stars would be touring in their 70s. They're going to come out for my Jacksonville show. They came and sung with me last time. That's amazing. Johnny and Ricky always come out and sing, man. They're fun. That's awesome. Yeah, dude. It never gets any different. Dude, look at you. You're living the life. It's fucking weird, dude. You're living the life. It's the shit we grew up listening to. I'm saying it's like...

I don't know, man. It's weird when you meet people that were real famous when you were a kid. That, to me, is always going to be the weirdest one. It's the one. Steven Tyler. Yeah. Meeting that dude. Meeting people like that. It's just like, you just feel weirded out. I met Tarantino. I was like, oh, dude. This is weird. Yeah. This is weird. Especially people you watched back in your childhood. Yeah. Yeah.

Out of all the comedians I met, the only one I've probably ever been made an ass of myself to is Ron White because I literally have watched him since I was a teenager because he was such a voice for, I don't want this to come off disrespectful, but being from the South in my household, we thought Jeff Foxworthy was incredibly funny. We liked his books more than his comedy though because we felt like his comedy almost felt a little forced to us as Southern people. It just didn't sit right in my household. In what way? In this way of like,

You might be a redneck. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know what I mean? If your family tree does not fork. It was hilarious. No, all the books, we religiously. But when we're watching a blue collar special as a family, and I know this wasn't the way to watch it in hindsight, we're all waiting on it.

You know what I mean? Because like he's he's the voice of our household. But I'm also in a household full of drunks, by the way. My father's a raging alcoholic. My mother does drugs. All my brothers do drugs. But it was like, you know, we loved we'd love Jeff. We love we love Bill. Larry, the cable guy. But man, when we just Ron was our you know, he just spoke to us.

what our household was doing you know what i mean so when i met him it was kind of like man i gotta tell my fucking mama well when he first started hanging out the store about like i guess it was about 10 years ago um he never had like a club like that before where it was like a home base you know he was always a successful touring comedian so he'd bring guys to open up for him on the road but it was basically the ron white show then he started hanging out with us at the store and

And he was like, man, this is what I've been missing. You know, I've been missing, like, a real camaraderie. Like, the base, the home base where everybody goes and just hangs out. Makes all the difference in the world. It is. No, well, iron sharpens iron, too. Yeah. When you're in Nashville, too, I mean, think about how many different amazing artists there are that you go see live in Nashville just fucking around on a regular night. For sure. Yeah. Dierks Bentley goes and plays this, like, um...

With his bluegrass band, like a 200-person bar every week. That's amazing. You know, like his little subversion of a bluegrass band. That's how I feel about our songwriting community, too. I've wrote in L.A., and I've had big songs come out of L.A., but Nashville is just, man, it's the killers.

You know what I mean is the dudes that are just the dudes and girls down there that are in those rooms every day are snipers. They've been doing it forever. The same thing like you doing all those shows. It's the same thing like them, right? You just get real good at your fucking job. For sure. And you get to know how to pivot.

You know what I mean? Like that's something else that comes with being on that stage a bunch is like the more you do it, the more circumstances you've been up against. Nothing starts to scare you no more. Right. Like even if I walk out to a crowd, like if I'm opening for somebody still and I walk out and I'm like, I'm not really work for this one. I'm not panicked. I've done it enough now. I'll even watch some guys in my band get a little panic. We'll be on the second song and you'll see them going like.

Why are they not just so excited we're here? I'm like, just relax. It's okay. We're going to get there. You know what I'm saying? Let's just have fun. The hardest spot is opening on a comedy show. It's brutal. I tell every comedian that opens for me, this is like running what waits on. Yeah. Talking about like the one of three, not the feature slot, the number one. First guy. First guy on stage. That's the hardest gig. Yeah.

And it's the gig for the guys that are the youngest, that are the learners. They're learning it. They don't really know how to do it yet. And you're kind of responsible for getting the first laugh of the night. You are 100% responsible for it. Man, you've got to break the room. Yeah, that's why Hans Kim was like our best opener because Hans Kim has structure. All his jokes have structure. So he puts you in this...

mode of laughing at ridiculous shit and he puts you in this like it's like a very structured set so it gets people into like the hypnosis of comedy right you get locked into laughing and then boom next comedian goes up and the bar is already set yeah you're already loose and everybody's running but that first spot man you gotta like it's the same with us that you if you're one of three uh alexander k's doing on this tour and she's killing it

But it is a rough one because, one, you've got your fans that knew you were one of three and they showed up early. So that's the only thing you have to advantage. The rest of it is people literally walking in with popcorn and beer in their hand wondering why the show's already started. You know what I mean? Right. Exactly. You know, I tell people all the time, you're not going to be a good performer until you performed in a place where people looked at you like you were interrupting them. Right. Right.

You know what I mean? You ever been to a place where you're like, hey, I'm sorry I'm bothering y'all by playing loud music up here. You fucking knew you were coming to a bar, bitch. You know what I'm saying? It's just, you know. But those are the funnest, too, though. I got to open up for Morgan Wallen this year a few times. And it was really fun because in the last few years, we've just been headlining. We haven't got to really, you know, go out and do something that was so much dramatically bigger than us that it made sense for us to do it. And I love Morgan. So I was like, I'm in.

And we went out there and it was cool because you feel it immediately. You're like, even with the hits I have, you know, there's 70,000 people here that bought a ticket to see Morgan Wallen for they knew my name was on the bill. Right. You know, so there's a lot of people here that are with me, but I'm still having to tell you, I'm still up here like, oh, OK, tonight, you know, I say there's three scenarios in my business. And I don't know if this is probably different for y'all's, but in mine,

My three scenarios are this one is the you're welcome. We're here. Right. Which is the simple like, thank you all. We thank each other. You came to see me. I'm going to give you a great show. Thank you. It's the easy one. Right. The other one is the thank you for listening. I appreciate that you gave me enough respect that you sat here and listen to me. And the third one is the one that makes me in. It's the hey, motherfucker, I'm singing. Yeah. And you have to go through a couple hundred of those before you get good.

You know what I mean? Like, I don't care. And that's what's been so about like the tick tock explosion is you have these kids that will have this big hit job and they'll have five or six hits in a row and they can start selling 2000 seats at a theater overnight. It's kind of like the podcasters that have a quick, quick flip and they go to the comedy clubs on a Friday. Yeah. But can't make nobody laugh or stay. These kids go straight into 2000 seat rooms and then stand up there like I've never done a fucking show. I've never stood in front of anybody.

Imagine getting a big TikTok hit, Joe. Never doing a show in your life and showing up. You know what I mean? Or imagine it's even worse. They put you on an opening tour for somebody. They're like, we got an amphitheater act that'll let you be two of four. This'll be great. And you're going out there looking at 6,000 people. Oh my God.

You've never stood up in a bar. I'm watching it happen to people all the time. I'm having to grab these kids and kind of mentor them now. And it's the flip side of it where like booking agents are dragging them to the slaughter. Of course. Because you know what? They just want to make money. They don't give a fuck. And here's the problem. Imagine your kid, you're 20 years old, 22 years old. You've got a big successful record and you're going to meet booking agents. You're excited. I've been there. You know? And the first one's like, we're going to put you right in 2,000 seat rooms. You're going to get $22,000 a night. You're like, woo!

What? A night? And we're going to do it three nights every weekend. Oh, my God. I'm rich. I'm buying a Corvette. That's fucking it. Immediately. And then you go to the next booking agent. They're like, now hear me out. My plan is for you to go play these 200 cap rooms like the Hi-Fi in Indianapolis, the End in Nashville. We're going to go do that for six months. We're going to get like 40 shows under your belt. You'll get like $1,300 a night, $1,200 a night.

And they're like, fuck you. The other guy just said I'm getting $25,000 a night immediately. But this guy actually knows what he's doing. You know what I mean? This guy actually is doing it right. But he always goes, they go back to the money. Yeah. And then they end up having to circle back and they got to refigure it out anyway. I tell people all the time, you might be able to skip the line a little bit, but you can't cheat the game.

You know what I mean? You got to put them hours in one way or the other. The same thing with fighters. You know, I see fighters that come out and they compete in the UFC and like their first fight, they look fantastic and they're fast tracked. And sometimes guys get broken because they they meet top flight competition before they're really ready.

They're really like an up-and-coming fighter honing their skills, and they run into a wily veteran who's like a top 15 guy, and they get fucked up. And they're kind of never the same. Yeah. Because they really shouldn't have been fighting that guy. Whereas boxing is a lot more clever. If they have a guy who's like a Terrence Crawford or someone who's a really good fighter, they'll match them up correctly until they can make the big money and until their skills are at a very, very high level, and then they start challenging for a world title. Yeah. But they prepare them. They get them. They put them...

The thing about the UFC is sometimes you just get thrown right to the wolves. And if you're Jon Jones, that's fine. Jon Jones wins the title at 22. But most guys are not Jon Jones. Most guys could be an elite fighter, but the circumstances just...

derail them before they ever get there. It burned them too early, man. Yeah, they burn them too early. You know, and it's like the perfect example of this in the UFC to me is one guy could be Sugar Sean who went on to be that guy right immediately. I know he just had his loss, but I mean, he still looks like sugar to me. You know, that kid's tough. And the other one could be that kid that we all love. But I always confuse it. Was it Hooper or Hopper?

The 19-year-old kid, he had a Sugar Sean kind of thing going. He was a contender series guy, too. Chase Hooper. Hooper, that was him. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And to me, that's kind of the tale of the same kid, you know what I mean, where it's like for Sugar, it kind of worked. But this is what I tell my people all the time. Chase still has a shot. He's still super talented. He just had to really get better at striking. Yeah, he's just young and has to circle back around. Yeah, but he got a lot better. He got a lot better at everything. He's really good on the ground. Yeah. No, the kid's great. He also went up to 55, which I think was big because he was –

He was killing himself. Good. Yeah, no, you could tell it was a big weight cut, especially for such a kid. His frames, they're kids. I think we still haven't seen what Sean's real man body is going to look like yet completely. Well, Sean's 30. Is he 30 now? Yeah. Okay, so we see him. But they say it's 25 or 26 now before you actually see a full development. Well, you definitely see some of these guys that are coming in that are 22 that are still growing. They're still getting bigger. Yeah.

Like Raul Rosas Jr., he's 19 years old. And that kid's still growing. Every time you see him, he looks more muscular, more jacked. You know, he's still in his prime. I mean, not even close to his prime. He's just still growing up. Yeah. There's still a... That's a... Yeah, that's a... There's a growing thing that's... Yeah, I guess it's different too, man. I'm thinking about that kid like Chase is that getting put into that national spotlight at the biggest fighting organization in the world at 19. You know what I mean? Yeah. And you're like...

So, Tavondre Sweat is the defensive end for the Tennessee Titans. I'm a huge Titans fan. He was our first-round pick this year, defensive end. I went to go hang out with him because I just think he's great. I think he's going to be a superstar. He's 22 years old. He's probably 6'5", 300-something pounds. And he can't grow a full beard yet.

You know what I mean? You know what I'm saying? Like, it's still – it's patchy. You know how it is when you're in your early 20s? It's still patchy. And I'm looking like – and I'm looking at Jeffrey Simmons, who's our veteran defensive end, who's 6'6", just cut like a – and I was like, oh, that's where you're going to be at in four years, three years. You know what I mean? Because we picked up Jeffrey Simmons as a rookie, too. It's like even at 22 years old, they haven't fully developed in yet. Right. You know, that dude – I'm looking at Devondre Sweat right now, and I'm like –

You still got a baby face. Like you still got a, you know what I mean? Look at big baby, look at baby face sweat. You know what I mean? Look, but you see this face of him right here. That's all you need to know about his personality at big face. That's who he is as a human. He's the sweetest dude ever.

But you can still tell by the look of his face. You know what I mean? That face is going to slim down and get a little more, you know. That's the craziest job. Yeah. Being a pro football player is the craziest job. Because you're literally in a car wreck every day. Especially guys for their position. They're in a car wreck every play. Yeah. I think about this. Offensive lineman, defensive lineman, guaranteed full contact every snap. 100%. Every time we snap the ball. Because, like, the wide receivers, they're going to hand fight every

there's going to be some action, but not full contact every play. Every single play, as soon as they say, what? These two linemen are fucking collision coursing. Jesus. And they're both hitting each other with the intention to try to knock the other one down first, right? The goal is like, if I can hit you and knock you down and go right past you, after that, I just got to fight my way around. And they're all 300 plus pounds of solid muscle. Huge. Full-blown athletes their whole life, been playing since they were eight. Colliding with each other. Yeah.

And that's the American sport. Yeah. It's a totally, I mean, in full speed. Isn't it kind of crazy that that is the American sport? I mean, what other countries even play it other than Canada? Who else plays football? Like American-style football? They don't even play it overseas. They don't even touch it. No. That was when Nate Bargossi hosted Saturday Night Live, not this time, but last year. He did that skit joke about it coming from the U.K., and he was like, and we will have a sport named football. And they were like, oh, where you'll kick a ball, they'll go, no. No.

And they'll go, so you never kick the ball? They go, sometimes. It's so funny about trying to explain football to somebody not from here. It's bizarre that we didn't call it a different thing. They were calling it football and it was soccer. And we just said, no, we're going to change the name of that. We're going to call it soccer. Yeah. And this is football now. What are you talking about? It's the American way, dude. Yeah. It's like, hey, we don't care how y'all...

do temperature everywhere else. Yeah, exactly. Fuck you. We go with degrees. Fahrenheit, bitch. Yeah, fuck you. We're going to create one. Fuck your metric system. Metric system is so much more efficient. We're like, nah, I don't like it. You'll love that Nate skit there because that's what he does. He just kind of goes through trashing all these ideas.

The best part is Kenan looks at him at the new skit and goes, what about my people? Will the slaves be freed after the war? He said they will be freed after a war. But not this one. Just fucking, I don't know. It was a good skit, man. It was really funny. He's a funny dude. Another Nashville guy. Love him, man. Big, big. Have you seen Theo thinking of Nashville? Speaking of Nashville guys, you've seen Theo do his impression to you? Oh, yeah. It's the fucking best. It's my favorite thing ever.

We'll let every acceptance be. See if you can find it, Joey. I want to thank the concrete layers. Oh, Theo. He did it with him and Joey Diaz. He gets up there and he's like, I just want to thank right now there's somebody who's

It's a simulation, Joe. Yeah, I think it might be. I just couldn't believe that I'd be at a place where

Theo Vaughn would, one, be my buddy. He came to my L.A. show. It just made me so happy. I almost cried when I seen him. I was so excited. But then to have him, you know, just fuck, dude. I said this a lot. There's a dream for an artist. There's nothing more pop culture than being brought up in a comedy special.

Like, if you was an artist back in the old days and you got brought up on an HBO special, you were on fucking fire. You could not be bigger. You know what I'm saying? So it's like I have those, that to me is like those unreal moments when you watch a guy like Theo with his platform impersonating me to do a T. And we're friends too and it's just like...

I would have never even I never thought I'd win an award to give a speech or more or less that the speech would be so viral that a comedian would have a impression of it. You know what I mean? It's like it's like I don't know. It's the greatest. That's the greatest compliment you can be paid in pop culture is if a comedian will burn on you a little bit. That's hilarious. That was perfect.

I'm still like, that's my, like, the first time I get dropped in a special, I'm going to lose my shit. It's going to remind me of little me watching HBO specials. You know what I mean? Well, if someone's listening to this right now, some comic's probably going to write a bit and put you in there. Don't be mean. No, just be funny. Just for fun. Yeah. Maybe it's Theo. Yeah, right? Maybe Theo will do that in a special. Theo's such a, I don't know. We're trying to steal him from Nashville. God, I know. We're trying to steal him. Well, listen, for what it's worth.

I think the wife and I are on the way, too. Really? Yeah. You know, my wife was born in Houston. Oh, okay. She's always had Texas in her heart. I went out on the river up here, and it's just... Come on over, my brother. I'm coming, bubba. Come on over. I'm telling you, man. I love it, dude. I just love the city. I love the space. Before I got here last night, just the few people that knew I was coming, I'd already got texts from my friends down here, from Carrie to Bruce to people that, you know, just...

Even my wife was like, you love it there. I was like, she loves Texas anyway, so she's all in. We're talking about it. That's beautiful. We'll always be back and forth because Nashville's always Nashville to me. Are you friends with Gary Clark? Yes. I love Gary Clark, by the way. Gary Clark's a wizard. He's a wizard. That's something else. I was talking to his manager's name, Scooter. Have you ever met Scooter? Yeah. Scooter's the best. And I was like, I think if I came down there, we would get, you know, if I brought the culture, the way I approach songwriting in Nashville here,

I think we could have a little paradigm shift down here too. Why not? You know what I mean? Let's go. You feel me, bubba? Let's fucking go, Jelly Roll. Let's go. Come on, man. Joe Rogan. A musical mothership. Let's go. I've told you this before, drunk, and I meant it then and I mean it now. I'm going to come to you one day and it's not going to surprise you, I hope, with a concept about doing the mother...

You just give me the right to call it the music mothership in Nashville. I'll give you the right right now. All right, cool. I got a plan, man. Because what y'all do for comedy, we have singer. Have you ever been to a writer's round? No. Joe, when you come to Nashville, please, please come a little early. Let me take you to a writer's round. OK. You will have a ball. So what happens is the songwriters who are writing all these big hit records in town come and they go to these bars and they do writer's rounds. They'll set up three or four barstools.

And every songwriter will have a guitar and they'll sing a song they wrote and tell you the story about the song. And it's the coolest. It's the coolest thing ever, because it's a dude. Don't not being funny, but a dude that looks like me if I wasn't me or a dude that looks like young Jamie. And then he sings Live Like I'm Dying by Tim McGraw. And he tells the most heartfelt story about where he was at in his life when he wrote the song and how he came up with the concept for it.

And it's this beautiful thing. And there's only one place in town that's really famous for it. It's called the Bluebird Cafe. They happen everywhere. And the first time I left the mothership, I was like, I'm doing this for music. I'm going to create this same culture for our songwriters. Because what happens is if you can create a place where people feel safe, they show up. So what happens is because like I don't go to the Bluebird Cafe a lot because it's a pain in the ass to get in and out of.

So if one of my friends calls like, hey, I'm at the Bluebird. It's a legendary spot and I love it. Like, will you come sing something with me? It's like, you know what I mean? There's no structure. It was you built your club for comedy. You knew that if the comedians were happy, they would show the fuck up. And then if you did everything you could to cater it to the comedians first, that they would come and bring their best and the best comedians would be there, which means that people are going to come see the best art. Right.

Same concept I'm going to try to do with music. It's my next move, dude. Let me open my bar first, Bubba, and I'm going to circle back about this. That's a great idea. I just want your right to call it. I don't want no money. 100%. No, do it. I just want to call it the Music Mothership. It's a great idea. And we'll talk about the logo because I want to kind of do a music. I want to do like a guitar version of the alien. You know what I'm saying? Do it. Do it up. Do it up. Imagine you're a little alien with a guitar. You know what I'm saying? Call it the Music Mothership. Well, the idea behind it, you could definitely apply to music.

Yeah, for sure. Same kind of idea. Take the phone. So you know what else happens too? I thought about this. If I take the phones like y'all do, then it becomes a laboratory. Yeah. Right? Because then it goes from like, not only will I sing you the hit I just wrote, how about I got a song Morgan Wallen's finna put out next month that nobody's heard? Ooh.

You see what I'm saying? Yeah. Yeah. And it's a safe place. Morgan shows up to sing it. Nobody's videoing. Nobody's picturing. People know it's a laboratory, too. And that's another exciting thing about it. Like when you go to the mothership, you go to that bottom of the barrel show. That's a full laboratory show. My favorite show I've seen there. Nobody knows what the fuck it's going to be about. You're just reaching into a barrel and pulling out suggestions. Yeah, that a bunch of people that are mothership fans wrote on paper. Yeah. It gets wild immediately. Yeah.

There wasn't a warm-up question. It's automatically to the Brian Simpson is so good at it, by the way. Yeah, well, it's his show. But the reason why it's so good is because it's like a premise factory. Like, you just get ignited by this thought that you didn't think of before that. Like, in that moment, someone says something about fire trucks, and then you're like, you know about fire trucks? And then all of a sudden, there's a bit. Right.

Right. Like, all of a sudden, because of necessity, because you're forced into this situation where you're trying to... Like, it's literally like you're calling on the muse on the stage. And, you know, a lot of times it's nothing. Like, seven out of ten times, you ain't got shit for that bit. But every now and then, you catch fire, and that becomes, like, a bit. Oh, have you ever had one birth into a bit? A bunch of them. I'll tell you which one's offstage or off-camera, but a bunch of them. That's awesome. Yeah, a bunch of them. Because it's just like that...

That little room, too, is like so, like you can't bullshit anybody in that little room. I like it. It feels like we're all sitting Indian style together. Yeah, there's only 100 people in there. 110, I think, is when it's fully packed. Yeah.

Dave was the first person to go on stage there. Really? Yeah. Well, actually Shane first. Shane opened for Gillis. Gillis opened for Chappelle. We didn't even tell the audience who was going on stage. We just said it's a special intimate show. Show sold out like that. Nobody knew who it was. And then Gillis goes on stage, does 15 minutes, and he brings up Dave. And Dave did like an hour and a half.

And he just fully writes on stage. Like he had just done a special. He fully writes on stage. Like he has ideas and he just like lets them breathe. Just fucks around on stage. Gets a little tipsy. Just fucks around on stage. Can I tell that story? You can cut this if you don't want me to tell it. But my favorite story I tell about you is my time at the comedy club with you. It was one of the first times I did this pod. I think you had shows that night and I went to both of them. And the first one was killer.

But the second one, you had gotten a little slippery and it was fun. It was, it was, it was like, cause I remember right before you walked out there, you even looked at me and that's the word you said. I felt a little slippery. It's just a little loose. You had your cup in your hand and I just seen a twinkle in you. I was like, Oh, I'm staying because I was going to leave. I'd already seen the show, you know, and you did two shows. I was like, Oh, I got to see this. I think this was going to be a little different. Yeah.

Those are the fun ones. Yeah, it was fun, man, because I got to watch the same set, but you fuck around a little more and kind of get lost in it sometimes, just having fun with it. Yeah. You know, like you could tell you were like, you did the first one like, this is what I know I got, and the second one you had a couple cocktails like, I'm going to riff on this point a little bit, just fuck off. Sometimes when you do that, you have the best part of the joke. And that's when you'll find probably the shit that closes it out. Mm-hmm. So there's sometimes like taglines just come to you in the moment, and you're like, wow, I never even thought of that one before. Yeah.

Do you get straight off stage and write them down? No, I record all my sets. Oh, wow. So then after I'm done, I'll listen to the recording and I'll write. Yeah. I sit down in front of the laptop and just... Actually sit down and put them out. Does it help you to see your ideas like that? It helps me to expand on them because it takes longer to type a thought than it does to think it.

Right? So like if I'm thinking a coffee cup, I'm thinking of it instantly, but it takes a couple of seconds for me to write it. And that gives me chances to like explore left, rights, down, up, all these different ways you can go with an idea. So, and then I'll usually like try to write it out like an essay form. So if I have an idea and it's funny and it does really well and like bottom of the barrel or a riff out of nowhere, then I take that idea and I just write out like an essay.

I'm not even trying to be funny. I just try to think about all the different angles of this idea, and then I'll extract little pieces of it and try these little pieces on stage. Wow.

And then you go and test them and chew the meat and spit the fat. And then sometimes in the middle of it, you're like, this sounds wrong. This sounds disingenuous. I'll take a totally different approach. Sometimes I'll contradict myself. Like in the middle of it, I'll go, but what the fuck do I... Why would I think that I know the answer to the... And then that becomes the bit. Right. Then it turns into the turn. Yeah. You never know, man. And the whole thing is just numbers. You just got to put a lot of numbers in. A lot of numbers in front of the computer. Numbers on stage. It's just...

It's like this constant process of building a mountain one layer of paint at a time. Yeah, just constant. Time under pressure. Yeah. Me and my daughter, she writes songs. She's already so much better than I was at 16. But she would come to me a couple years ago, and she'd be like, hey, I want to put some of this stuff out. I've been writing all this stuff. And I was torn because I was like, well, you should have the right to put out whatever you want. That's the freedom that exists. But I know something you don't know, that you just wrote your first 30 songs.

And they're incredible. Four of your first 30 songs. You know what I mean? You know what I mean? Yeah. You go write 100, and let's see if we can find five that are worth rewriting, rework, and refiguring out. You know what I mean? And I was cool. It taught me a lot about her personality because she was like, I get it. She got it immediately. I wouldn't have got it at 15.

You know what I mean? She got it. She was like, cool, no problem. Well, she probably sees what you do. And that's the beautiful thing about having an example, whether it's your peers or for her, your dad. You get to see an example of how someone does a process. Because if you're not around anybody that's trying to get good at something, you don't really know how to do it. Right. That's one of the cool things about a conversation like this because there's people out there that are listening that don't have anybody around them that's doing cool shit. Right.

Right. And they think it's impossible. And they hear about this dude that was in jail for half his fucking life. And, you know, this other dude who was a cage fighting comedian, cage fighting commentator and stand up comedian. Like these fucking guys are not they're not normal either. Right. Like maybe I'm not normal. Maybe like this. Maybe there is something out there for me. Yes.

But I don't hear it from anybody in my neighborhood. I don't hear it from my parents. I don't hear it from my teachers. I don't hear it from my boss. Right. And I'm fucking lost, you know? And then they hear people talk about, like, the love of writing songs that you have, the passion you have for creating a thing, how you piece it, how you jump up and write down the premise. You write down an idea for a lyric. And then in their head, they're like, I can do that with something.

I can do that with something. I just have to find a thing. Just find a thing, man. Just just there was my daddy. I sat down with him at a bar called the Tin Roof on the Mummery Street one night, Joe. And I look my dad and I said, I'm done. I said, I've I've done everything I can. I remember I was probably 29 years old, probably a decade ago. And I said, Dad, I've been out of jail five years or four years, whatever. I've done everything I can in this business. You know how hard I've worked. Do you think our brother Roger will give me a job on a meat truck because my father sold meat?

So did my brother. He said, I know your brother will give you a job on the meat truck, but I want to give you some perspective. I said, I'm open for a healthy dose of that. He said, you've only been out here trying this as hard as you possibly can for five years, just five, four years, four and a five years. I said, Dad, that's five years. He said, if you went to Vanderbilt, you still wouldn't have your bachelor's degree. Joe. It's true, right? It's so true. It covered me.

And he said, Jason, if you're working as hard as you really, I know you are. If you're really writing every day, if you're doing shows every week, and I was opening up 50 bucks a night. I mean, you know, my story is that old school get in the van and go do a thousand shows for fucking gas money. You know what I mean?

He's like, if you're really doing that, there's no way it's not going to work. If you're really doing it, not you're faking it, not you're half assing it. If you're really this is all that matters to you. If you were going to Vanderbilt right now and you did it for another five years, you'd finally be a brain surgeon. He said, if I was you, I'd wait and see if I was a brain surgeon. I swear, dude, I'll never forget. And I'll never forget calling him crying the first time I moved into a neighborhood with a surgeon.

You know what I mean? Right. You know, when you call him, like, you won't fucking believe. I just met my neighbor. Guess what he does? What? Wow. He's a fucking plastic surgeon. You know what I'm saying? Yeah.

That's crazy. Yeah, that old man knew something, though. But he just knew that the law of work would never work against us. You know what I mean? Yeah, if you keep going, that's the thing we were talking about before about people bailing out. Yeah, that's it. It gets hard. You just got to sit, man. You just got to sit, man. You just got to sit. You also got to recognize when you're making the right moves or the wrong moves, you know, with what you're doing. And sometimes people don't want to course correct. They don't want to course correct. And...

Then it could be a bad relationship. That one's tanked more guys than anything. Yeah, I've seen it. And gals. I've seen it. The bad relationship one, that'll tank you. No, that'll do it. Everything in your life is that thing, and then you have very little resources for your art. Yeah. Because your life is just a storm. There's a storm of confusion and chaos and fucking emotions every day. Yeah. And then trying to block it out to make the art. Exactly. If you can't allow it to be the muse for it. For me, it was a little different because it became the muse.

The chaos that was happening around me just became, I had a moment where, and this is such a cool epiphany I had, Joe. For the longest time, I thought I was special because I was from Antioch, Tennessee, and I grew up in a certain kind of way around certain kind of people and that I was special because that was, I hung on to that like I'm different.

And then I realized what was happening was I was just like everybody else. That's what the superpower really was, is that every fucking neighborhood in America is like Antioch almost. You know what I mean? So it was like a totally different thing. So I started realizing, oh, this isn't this is the muse. I'm speaking for every man when I'm writing just the chaos that's happening around me right now. This is the every man's story.

Isn't it crazy that everybody wants to be special? But every special person wants to be an everyman?

Yeah. I like being in every man. That's what I like being. Me too. Yeah. But when you're a kid, you want to be different. You want to pretend that you're different than other people because that'll make success more attainable. Exactly. You want to pretend that you have some special quality and ability that other people don't possess. So that's why you can get to this bizarre position that everybody wants, where everybody in our business wants to be successful and famous.

So you have to be bizarre. And then once you get there, you're like, oh, shit, everybody's just the same. Everybody's the same. I got to make sure that I keep that. Make sure that I keep we're all the same. It was in my songwriting, I'm going to say 2015, 16-ish, I realized that I was trying to tell special stories.

And that God had put me in a situation. He was screaming at me to tell a story of a group of people that had never had their story told. But I was just going out of my way to try to come up with a special story. You know what I mean? And then when I started being like, you know what? No, I'm just going to write about my neighbor who's struggling with drug addiction. I'm just going to write a song about my baby mother because I'm infuriated that she left our daughter high and dry like this because of drugs. You know what I mean? Like, I just started writing from that perspective. Yeah.

And then I realized that it was connecting with people because it was the every man story. You know what I mean? I almost called this album Cinderella Man. Right. And I'll tell you why I didn't. But I thought I watched the movie and I was like, I had a moment in that movie where when he's walking, you've seen the movie, right? Y'all all seen the movie. He's walking in a for those who haven't. It's about an old boxer who in the Depression had kind of.

was on a losing streak, kind of long in the tooth. James Prattick. James Prattick. They would call him a journeyman, is what we call him now. It looked like it was never going to work out for him. Couldn't get a job on a loading dock almost. Family split and bred. One of the greatest movies ever. Russell Crowe, right? Yep. And he comes out, and towards the end, he ends up fighting this championship fight, and it's a crazy movie to watch. But when he's running, he goes by the old dock, and they're all cheering for him. And I relate to this because this happened to me, and he didn't understand it.

So he looks at his manager. Remember this scene? This is the scene that I related to the most. He looks at his manager and goes, why are they cheering for me? He goes, because you're them. I was like, I'm the fucking Cinderella man. That's why this worked for me at 40. You know what I mean? Yeah. And, uh, but I ended up calling it beautifully broken because as I started really writing, cause that's what my idea going into the project, I'm going to write the Cinderella man story. And all I could think about was other people. Every time I'd pick up a pen, uh,

I would think about this young lady at a show who told me that Save Me helped her because she was raped by her uncle. So I'm like, what do I write for her? I see Winning Streak. I watch this moment. I got to write that for him. You know, now I might write some of them from first perspective, but it changed everything. And all of a sudden I was like, this album ain't about me. You know what I mean? This album is about finding beauty in broken things. You know? Yeah. And instantly it was like,

Once again, how God works, as soon as I took me out of it, the album blossomed immediately. I wrote 80 songs that sucked. Just couldn't find my way to what story I was trying to tell. And just as soon as I was like, let's go back to where's the muse coming from? Who am I writing for? I say I'm the voice of the voiceless. When I had the opportunity to go talk about fentanyl down at Capitol Hill, I didn't hesitate. I knew I was going to talk for a bunch of people that couldn't talk. You know what I mean? It's like, who am I writing this for?

And dude, it changed that whole writing style, dog. Then I got lost and wrote another 80. Damn. But now I'm having fun. I got a direction. I feel like I've heard from God. I'm Moses. You know what I'm saying? The burning bushes spoke. I know what I'm supposed to be writing about. You know, it took me 18, 16 months to get there. But that's just how it works. What you're saying, too, about taking yourself out of it. Soon as I took me out of it. You know what I mean? As soon as I took me out of it. It's that easy.

snap that fast. It's almost like a trap. Like, it's the You're So Vain song. Yeah. It's like a trap. For sure. Like, that trap of thinking about yourself. You waste so much of your resources. Yeah. So much of your resources. Like, thinking about how you want to come off, how you want people to react to it, how you want to, like, get out there and kill it in front of everybody. And you miss all the beautiful magic. Mm.

All the magic. It's right there. Yeah. You know, and you're just missing, you just get lost in the art. And when you're at your best, you are them. You are one of them. You're like singing for them, you know? When I'm at my best, it's when I didn't know they were cheering, I didn't know they were even cheering for me. Right. It's because I'm one of them. You know what I mean? It's kind of like the, yeah, it's that same kind, yeah, this album was,

The most fun I've ever had getting to an album. I learned so much about myself. I think that's one of the things that people really dislike about stars, like famous people, like people that you think of as stars, that they somehow or another think they're better than everybody else. That's the thing that people dislike the most. Like, oh, they think they're better than us. They live in Beverly Hills. They think they're better than us because they're a star. You ain't better than us. Yeah.

When someone can do what you do and stay the same person and stay them, just a better version of who you used to be. But stay, stay normal. Yeah. And actually getting better every day because I'm doing the work. Yeah. Trying to be better. You know what I mean? I was telling the Titans when I went to talk to him at the game, I was like, I focus and I don't focus on winning anything but life. Like I know that everything else is going to be good as long as I'm focused on being a good father.

Like priority number one is like, am I good husband? What I've learned is if I'm winning as a husband and I'm winning as a father, I am fucking kicking ass in business. Yeah. The last thing you want is those home dramas. Yeah. You don't want no home drama. It's crazy. But it's also that's something we talk about things that distracted people. I was in so many bad relationships early or even times in my life. I was single courting multiple women.

And that's such a distraction. Like when I got with my wife and fell of like to the point of being like, I don't want to spend time with any woman but you. When I have the time I have to spend, I want to spend it with you. And all my it's like my whole world suddenly went from feeling like it was this big to this big. And when it got that small, I was like, oh, man, this is it. We're in a foxhole.

And then I just started kicking ass outside. You know what I'm saying? Life just starts winning. And I'm like, oh, dude, it's because I'm fucking winning at home. It's also what you're saying, too, about your resources. Like you have so much more to give, you know, and everything's positive. A happy home life like feeds off your happy business life and your happy performing life.

That's what we all want. You know, we all want a beautiful community of people that are like enjoying life and experiencing life together. Your family and your friends and the people you fuck around with. You just want a beautiful community of people having a good time. That's possible, but it's hard. And that's why it's so wonderful when you get it, because you know that there's a lot of people out there that are never going to get it.

Man, that's deep. That's probably the hardest part. It's a lot of work towards it too, though, man. A lot of work. It's a lot of work on yourself. Yeah, yeah. Lots of work. But that's work in relationships, though, man. Just think about the arc that you've gone through from being a kid, getting arrested as a kid, right?

Spending all that time in juvenile and jail and then getting free and then figuring out that you're talented and then pursuing this crazy impossible dream, you know, to where you are now. It's nuts. Sitting on the biggest podcast in the world, my bubble. It's an amazing story. I mean, it's an amazing – if it was in a movie, you'd have a hard time believing it. That movie's nuts. Yeah, for sure.

I'm telling you, dude, that little fat nerdy alien that's playing me on the game every day is fucking killing it. He's killing it. My brother, I appreciate you very much. Yeah, I love you. I love you very much. I got to put Jamie on blast before we go, though. Oh, that's right. Jamie, we had a deal. Me and Jamie had some cocktails one night. Don't look at Jamie. And we had a deal that if I ever played Ohio Stadium, Joe Rogan, that Jamie was going to come out and play the guitar.

Jamie, you got any video of you playing guitar? Yeah. Not recently, but yeah, I used to be in a band and played music on stage and stuff. Sure. He definitely knew I had to talk to him. Do you have any video of you playing guitar that we could sweat right now? No. It's like you wouldn't know it was me. It's just a lot of heavy metal music. Will you pull up a Buckeye Country Fest then so you can show everybody the flyer of the concert you're going to be playing next year?

Oh my God. There it is, baby. I see you there, Jamie. Jamie, June 21st, 2025, Ohio Stadium, Columbus, Ohio. Let's fucking go. Yeah, fuck Jelly Roll. Y'all come to see young Jamie play that guitar. I love that Megan Maroney chick, too. Listen, man, she's awesome, awesome, dude. Yeah, my daughter turned me on to her. Yeah, she's...

She is badass, man. When she made her Opry debut, she wore a jelly roll jacket and it tickled me so pink. It made me like the cool dad for my daughter because my daughter loves her too. That's amazing. Really cool. I love you, Joe, man. I love you too, brother. Thank you for your time, brother. Beautifully broken. Available now. Available now. Go get it. Bye, everybody. Bye. Bye.