#2208 - Brigham Buhler
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Joe Rogan podcast, check it out. The Joe Rogan experience. Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast. So tell me what it's like to testify in front of the Senate. What is that like? Man, it was pretty wild. It all transpired so fast. I got a call from Cali Means. We've become pretty good buddies. I know you're having him and his sister Casey on the podcast. Brilliant folks that are just patient advocates. I mean, at the end of the day,

They had the same experience as I had. Callie, a little bit different walk of life. He was a lobbyist. Casey was a doctor, Stanford trained surgeon, realized that she was in a system where they didn't really heal people. They just treated symptoms and profiteered off disease states. And she said, there's got to be a better way. So their voice rung so loud.

after I think they did Tucker, that it led to momentum. And then because of you having me on the podcast, that's how I met RFK. And so Bobby's team had reached out to me maybe about a year and a half ago to come up to Dallas while he was doing a campaign there and sit down with him. And he was

just asking a hundred questions about what's going on and what did you see on the pharmaceutical side and what did you see owning pharmacies and billing insurance companies. And so when they had an opportunity to put this team together to testify in front of the Senate, the goal was to create a nonpartisan group of individuals to take a new fresh approach to what is going on with chronic disease in America.

Because the chronic disease crisis is at an all-time high. I mean, we could go through all the statistics, and I know that Casey and Callie will when they're on here, so I don't want to steal their thunder, but it's staggering. I mean, close to anywhere between 1.7 to 1.9 million people are dying a year of chronic disease. We talk a lot about war since then.

The dawn of this country, roughly estimated between 1.3 to 1.5 million people total have died in war, American lives.

So in a year, we're losing more people to chronic disease than all the wars combined. And we're not talking about it. So to me, I was excited when they said, hey, the Senate's willing to hear. And that's the beauty of a democracy. They did let us come in there and candidly take a dump on the Senate floor on what's going on with this health care system and really dig into the weeds. Did anybody try to take the side of the pharmaceutical drug industry? Did anybody question you or try to push back?

So prior, you do a debrief. So we did do a roundtable prior to going into the communal roundtable in front of the public eye, which they had no idea what was coming. The Senate didn't expect it. We had assembled a grassroots effort to get the word out there, and over 2,000 people took off from work. These are...

This is a Senate hearing. Over 2,000 hardworking Americans took time from their busy day, flew to D.C., had to sit in an overflow room to listen to these testimonies. And the level of feedback from people, from like real humans, real world people, was staggering. I mean, people afterwards came up in tears sharing their story of how the system had let them down or a loved one down, misdiagnoses, like all the different issues that they've dealt with, transgressions.

trying to navigate this system. And to the senator's credit, you know, behind closed doors, they did say, you probably don't want to go ultra hard after the food industry or ultra hard after the pharmaceutical industry, because it may limit our ability to get things done. But they did. How do they phrase that? They just said, you catch more flies with honey than you do vinegar. And, you know, me, Callie and the other

folks that sat on this panel, you know, our goal was to just share our stories and share what we saw. And so my testimony in particular was really more about the human side. You know, there's so many staggering data and statistics and numbers, but behind all that is a person. Like, that's all I wanted people to understand. These are human lives. You know, when Jelly Roll testified, I think he said this equivalent to a 747 jet worth of people die of opioids a day.

That's insane. And that all started with the lapses in the FDA and the drug regulatory market. And we know that, you know, there's an argument out there. I know Cali released the number of 50 plus percent of the FDA's funding comes from big pharma. When it comes to drugs alone, 75 percent of the drug funding comes from the pharmaceutical companies themselves. And

And so there's a big market there. And with Big Pharma spending over $8 billion a year advertising, that's more than the entire sum of the FDA's budget. $8 billion a year just in advertisement. Imagine how much they're making so that they can afford $8 billion just in advertising. Yeah, it's insane. And those ads are wild. But what I saw is,

The truth is, my hope is that people listen and the American people fight. We can fight with our pocketbooks. We can fight through our choices as citizens. Do I have faith that the government's going to fix these problems overnight? I don't. But at least we're having the conversation. And to their credit, they let us speak freely. They didn't put a censor on us. They, you know, they tried to give us some

you know, to say, Hey, if you go this route, just understand there's going to be blowback. And, you know, we're here to get progress on these topics, not, you know, burn the house down type deal. And then I did have some, and it was, it was a bipartisan effort. So some of the senators in the room had mentioned, well,

Well, the American people just want a pill. You know, they don't really want a solution that they're not they're looking for an easy way out. And I pushed back. It's funny because one of the moms that was there was like, oh, my God, I can't believe you were just dropping F-bombs in that meeting. But I'm like, I think you're fucking wrong. I mean, after being in health care since I was 20 years old, what I see is people struggling for answers.

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I don't want to name any names, but one of the senators there was saying in his experience people are looking for the easy way out. And I don't think that's the case. I think people are looking for hope. Well, here's the thing. If there was a real easy way out –

Like, if there really was a pill with no side effects that cured all your ails, sure, people would want that. And this is the problem. The advertising, that $8 billion a year, it leads you to believe that there is some sort of a solution in the bottom of a prescription bottle. Yep. And that's not real. That's the problem, is that they've been misled so long and for...

so far down the line. And here they are, chronically ill, suffering, and they're hoping it's the next pill. And that was, our hope was to break down from the start of COVID

How do we process these foods? How do we grow, harvest, and what do we do with our soil? What do we do with our pesticides? How do we bring these products to market? How do we regulate our food industry? And that's all new to me. That's not my expertise. My expertise and my testimony was focused on what I saw as a drug rep, what I saw as a med device rep, what I saw billing insurance companies.

And that was a part of the talk that we didn't even get to dive deep into. But the goal was to explain to the Senate from the food processing, growing, harvesting, chemical treatments, to the packaging, to the ingredients we add into our food, to the hospital systems. Throughout the system, front to back, the American people are set up for failure. In the 1950s, the U.S. had...

The FDA had approved 700 different ingredients in our food products. That's it, 700. Today, there are over 10,000 chemicals and petrochemicals in our food products in the United States. In Europe, still 700. Jesus. And what gets crazier is when Food Babe, she's an influencer, right? And that's been...

crapped on by the media. - Well, it's an unfortunate name, Fruit Babe. - But she's an advocate and she's just a voice, a mother out there saying, "Hey guys, what's wrong with this picture? "Let me show you what's in Froot Loops in America "and let me show you what's in Froot Loops in Canada." The same manufacturer, Kellogg's, is selling one product to the American people and a safer, less ingredient, less chemical-filled product

outside the United States. They have the ability to sell it here, but they don't because they know they can sell more addictive, more colorful, vibrant that attract kid food sources here in the U.S. It's so dark. And so we walked through all of that. It blew my mind on the food front. And we know you and I have talked like in the health care system. My main message was we're here to talk about the boom in chronic disease.

We know that food and our environment has a huge impact on that, but so does preventative care. And so does building an ecosystem that allows clinicians to troubleshoot and diagnose and prevent chronic diseases from evolving in the first place. These are all metabolically related disease states. All the chronic diseases that are killing us can be traced back to diet, lifestyle, and nutrition, but none of our clinicians are trained on diet, lifestyle, and nutrition. Right.

That's the hard pill for people to swallow. Diet, lifestyle, and nutrition. It's very hard for people who are addicted to shitty food, who are lazy, who don't have a history of exercise, and...

you know, their lifestyle sucks and they get home from work and they like to drink. Like all those things are killing you. Yeah. Yeah. But then you and I've talked about this with some of your comedy friends that have become my friends too, to watch the evolution. You just got to give people momentum. We just got to get some wins on the board. We got to give them hope and we've got to start by having the conversation. And that's what I was optimistic about for the first time in my adult life.

The Senate is willing to sit down with a group of individuals and have a deep conversation about where our food comes from, how our food is being processed, what ingredients are in our food and how that could potentially lead to chronic disease. And it got labeled by some of the

I would say hatchet job media outlets that have come out and we can dive into that. Somebody called it the woo-woo. Yeah, I saw that. Let's dive in. First of all, fuck you, whoever wrote that. Because there's nothing woo-woo about anything you guys were saying. That's what's really crazy. To say that toxic chemicals that are illegal in other countries but are legal in the United States, and there's a reason why they're illegal. You could find all the different things that they do to the body, all the different damage they cause.

To say that that's woo-woo is so crazy. Like, what did they list as an example of woo-woo? What's hard is they went immediately at, like, these are all entrepreneurs that have something to sell you. And I can tell you, sitting in the room with those people, all of us were scared.

All of us were scared. It's scary. I'm not going to make money off of this. If anything, I could lose money. I have businesses that are under the FDA's guidelines, are under the FDA's oversights. I don't want to upset the apple cart, but I also want to tell the truth. And I wanted to share what I saw. And that was my message was scary.

I'm not here to represent the left or the right. I'm here to represent humanity. This is not a Republican issue. This is not a Democrat issue. This is a humanity issue. These are people's lives. But it's just stunning that people are willing to whore themselves out to write a hit piece on someone trying to help

human beings find healthier choices and realize the root cause of all the diseases that we're facing. The woo-woo article, she alludes to how we talked about nothing but metabolic disease and what does metabolic disease have to do with cancer? Well,

Actually, I can tell you. Oh, my God. It is the number one risk factor. Obesity and metabolic disease is the number one risk factor to all forms of cancer other than smoking. So if you take smoking and age out of the equation, it's your number one risk factor. That's what it has to do with it. Imagine that statement. It's...

What does metabolic health have to do with these diseases? That is so crazy. And the people on that panel too, to their credit, I was the least qualified of anyone to be in that room. And I was there to talk about my experiences as an industry insider.

I am not telling you that I am an expert on metabolic disease. I can tell you that I'm an expert on fuckery because I've been in healthcare long enough to see what they're doing and I know their equation. I know their offense. But other than me, you had Casey Means, Stanford trained surgeon. You had Dr. Palmer, a psychiatrist from Harvard who was breaking down metabolic disease and how it's astronomically impacting the mental health crisis in America.

One of the stats he dropped on us in his testimony was, we are at an all-time high in suicide and death of despair, greater than during the Great Depression. More Americans are dying of suicide and death of despair, more than ever. More children are being diagnosed with metabolic disease, diabetes. Girls are starting periods six years younger. Like, this doesn't—I don't need a double-blind study to tell you something's wrong.

Just look at the data. And that was this message. I'm hearing a lot of woo-woo from you. I need some data. It's like, as we get into that, in the names, they just totally breezed over and that article tried to make it sound like it's a bunch of influencers. And it's like, yes, there were some people who have social media presences, but there were also academics there.

But also you can't Harvard, Stanford and Stedman Hawkins. You can't dismiss someone who's giving out factual information because they're a so-called influencer. Some people get into influencing for a good cause. And they have real valid information and they collect that valid information and distribute it. And that's how they get a following. And, you know, even Bonnie is the food babe. Bonnie, her battle has helped people.

Remove ingredients from certain states, stop chemicals in certain food sources. They're actually going to march to Kellogg on the 10th of next month to hand a petition signed by over 100,000 Americans coming out the tail end of that, asking them to remove dangerous chemicals that they don't put in food products in other countries and just match it.

That's all they were asking. Hey, why don't we just match what you're doing outside the U.S. and all these other countries where they've said these products aren't safe? Why are we allowing you a mulligan on the U.S. population when it comes to food? And they've never been studied. That's the other wild thing. The FDA doesn't have the bandwidth to study every time a new ingredient is added to a food source. So you and I have gone down the rabbit hole on the FDA's

attempt to try and regulate and rein in big industry like big pharma and big medical. And I know I've told your listeners for over 90 percent of the products in the operating room have never been through an FDA human safety trial. It's it was an entity built at a time to serve a purpose. And I just think they're drowning. And I think there's a lot of

Industry influence and spit being swapped that can skew decisions and viewpoints and that's dangerous. It is dangerous It's dangerous and it's spooky that you get pushback after that So let's talk about the pushback because it was immediately afterwards you started texting me like dude Holy shit these hit pieces are nuts because you could see the machine moving against you so you could see that someone saw this Senate and

hearing realized that it could potentially have an impact and try to do their best to mitigate those potentially positive effects for the health of American people, but it could cost them money. So they started pumping money into these media outlets. Absolutely. And this is what I've seen before, owning a compounding pharmacy. When I went on Jillian Michaels' podcast, she is very opinionated and passionate about this.

And it took me 10 minutes to explain to her that compounding pharmacies aren't bad guys. And because she had only heard the corporate media narrative of compounding pharmacies are dangerous. People are getting drugs from these compounding pharmacies that are in garages and they're just willy nilly making compounds and shipping them into the marketplace. And I had to methodically walk her through compounding pharmacies fall under the FDA's jurisdiction.

My pharmacy has been inspected three times in 18 months. Every single ingredient we buy is an FDA-approved ingredient. Every single compound we compound, we send off to an independent third-party lab to verify. And I say all this just to lay the groundwork. We've treated over a million patient lives at our pharmacy, over a million patient lives nationwide and ever.

What they do in that environment is they the media will list any recall any mistake of pharma compounding pharmacy makes but sweep under the rug that big pharmaceutical companies like Eli Lilly and Pfizer have moved most of their manufacturing overseas where the FDA has to submit before they can come do an inspection and has to give them two months notice because they're coming into a foreign country and they've got to get visas and approvals and

and all these things to come inspect those facilities, they can't just walk in like they walk into my facility.

And so Lilly, Eli Lilly in particular, one of the reasons they're struggling with back orders right now is their facilities have been popped for egregious action by the FDA. But none of that is in the public eye. You have to scour. I think Reuters is the only one that wrote an article. But Little Compounding Pharmacy in Texas recalls 28 vials proactively for a mislabel. And the New York Post makes it national news.

but you didn't cover Eli Lilly's nationwide issues on all these products, or the fact that over 2,000 manufacturing facilities owned by Big Pharma haven't been inspected in five or more years. It's just not...

good journalism. Well, it's not, it doesn't have integrity. Eight billion dollars. Yeah. Eight billion dollars has an effect. I'm sure these journalists aren't sitting there watching this Senate hearing going, you know what? I'm outraged. I feel like these people are full of shit. I'm going to help the American people and write this piece criticizing it. No, they're probably being instructed. Well, she gave us that. She sent us and said it was very vague. I get a voicemail. We want to write an article on your pharmacy. I find out at three o'clock I'm in meetings. We

draft a response explaining all the things we do to go above and beyond and how our vision is to bring, you know, cost-effective prescription drugs to the American people for pennies on the dollar, typically less than your copay or deductible.

What part of that? And in this article at the end, I shit you not, the girl puts, and by the way, Eli Lilly slicing prices by 50% on their weight loss drug. That's how the article ends. And I'm like, how is this not an advertisement? And so I looked and now that I've, I've seen it when I was a drug rep, I saw it when I own pharmacies and labs, I saw it as a device rep, but I went and looked and said, okay, who owns the New York Post?

And when you peel back the layers to that onion, the New York Post majority holders of stock are Vanguard, BlackRock, State Street. Now, let's go look at who are the majority owners into Eli Lilly. Vanguard, BlackRock, State Street.

So the same folks who own the pharmaceutical companies who have the most to gain by keeping the narrative the same and driving America towards the chronic disease crisis and monetizing your chronic disease with all the things you and I have discussed before, whether pharmacy benefit managers, insurance companies, hospitals, pharmaceutical companies, front to back, top to bottom.

We've lost our way. We really have lost our way, Joe. It's all about quarterly earnings and quarterly profits. And I'm not saying that they're intentionally poisoning the American people to set them up so that they can knock them down. I just think it's so siloed and so compartmentalized and everybody's fighting for that extra dollar that quarter, that day, that month, that they're just blocking and tackling and preventing the narrative from rising in their siloed bucket.

But you have to, like in humans, we have to take a look out and go, hey...

I'm not just treating your knee or your brain health or your heart health. The body is an organism that works together. We have to do a deeper dive to assess where the disease started, what caused it, and can we uncover the root cause and fix the root cause? We have to do the same thing in our systems and our protocols and our procedures. We know that corporate capture is real. We know that corporate capture has somewhat happened with the FDA, somewhat happened with Congress and the Senate.

You know, everyone's scared to fight these guys and they can wreck your lives. It's scary. And it's hard to fight when they control the media. They control all the funding to the advertising on the news networks. I mean, good luck getting a story out there.

It's so weird that they've been able to do this for so long in such a shifty way. It really is. Because there should be laws against that. If there's laws against insider trading, how's there not laws against manipulating narratives in order to profit at the expense of people's health?

Yeah, and to even further highlight the level of corruption and corporate capture, I sent you and Jamie an article. I don't even remember the news outlet. But when you look, who owns that news outlet? Okay, well, it says most of its funding comes from this PR firm. Then when we go to look at who owns the PR firm, it's Monsanto that owns the PR firm that got this other. And it's always layered. It's never abundantly clear. Like it's hard. The other one we talked about was

The Atlantic, you know, and as I peel the layers back to the Atlantic, it was owned by Bradley, who made his money being a consultant for Big Pharma and pharmacy benefit managers. He sold a big chunk of his company off to Optum, which is one of the dirtiest pharmacy benefit managers out there. And we broke that down on your previous podcast, the pharmacy benefit managers for those listeners that don't know.

were established in the 70s and 80s with the goal of driving down the cost of prescription drug care for America, but it got captured by the insurance companies. So Cigna, Aetna, CVS Health, all of those companies now own these middlemen that are negotiating rebates.

So it's important to understand because those rebate dollars are held at that company and they're making billions off of chronic disease. Billions. So if you're on a GLP-1 weight loss drug for the rest of your life and they've negotiated rebates to the pharmacy benefit plans that they own, they're oftentimes holding 40 to 50 percent of their profitability in a shell company that's not disclosed to the American public or the U.S. government.

And when they establish a Medicare price point on a drug, they base it off of the average wholesale price in America. And that's important because they artificially inflated the fucking average wholesale price. And they're giving themselves a rebate on the back end. But the government doesn't have line of sight into that. And they know it's happening now. It's been exposed. We talked about this again on your last five. But it's like I think it's the state of Idaho uncovered 230 million in fraud in one year.

from the pbms one year now multiply that times all the states in the united states oh my god and think about how much money is being made off of keeping people on prescription drugs did you see the article that i put on my instagram that they put in the atlantic is it time to torch the constitution did you see that i did it's scary same people it's the same people they're they're putting a narrative out there to the general public or like whoa he makes a good point

Maybe we should just give up all our power to Satan. Yeah. Literally, they're literally saying, should we torch the Constitution? It's crazy. It's scary. The only thing that protects us. And I say this. I feel like I woke up and became my grandpa. I remember him always bitching about politics, and I'm not political. And he probably barely knew, right? You consider how much information was available to your grandpa. I know.

He just had a sort of a nagging suspicion that it's all corrupt and crooked. And I'm an idealist. I want to believe that people are looking for the truth. How cute. How sweet. And I told you this, even with the DOJ and what I saw with enforcement bodies.

When your data sets are corrupt and the only info you're receiving is from bad sources that are pushing agendas, but those sources also are your future employment when you come out of government service, it just becomes a dangerous, dangerous, slippery slope. And there are often times where enforcement issues

changes legislation through enforcement. Like right now, the DEA is reviewing if they're going to allow telemedicine companies to continue to prescribe testosterone. And that's crazy to me because it's like all these issues we have, all the chronic disease, there is not a testosterone crisis. This is not like the opioid crisis. There's not a lot of divergence. Or even the GLP-1 crisis. Yeah. I mean, the amount of people that are having side effects of that in comparison to the testosterone thing. Yeah.

And that's where, you know, you and I disagree somewhat on the GLP-1s. Jillian and I disagree on the GLP-1s. Callie and Casey and I disagree. It's okay to disagree. There's nothing wrong with having differing lenses. Well, I think I understand your perspective. Your perspective is for chronically obese, like really morbidly obese people, we need to do something. And this is a very good step. And it does work. And it can help people. It is a very good step.

I'm the hardcore discipline guy. I'm the like, what the fuck are you talking about? This is something that you can solve just by eating less. Yeah. Something you can solve by cutting out sugar, cutting out sodas, cutting out... Eating whole ingredient foods. Eating fish and chicken and red meat and vegetables and cutting out all the bullshit. You're right. No, you're spot on. That's real. That's a real thing that you can do. However...

If you're 600 pounds and if you've gone so far down the wrong road, you need a hand. You need someone to help you. That's where I'm like, if I was pushing an agenda, I have a ton to gain by GLP-1s going gangbusters. I'm not on that bandwagon. I literally sat there with the Senate meeting and said, this is crazy if we government fund prescribing GLP-1s to children. That's insanity. We need to fix our food products in schools. We need to limit soft drinks and advertising to children. There's a million things we could do.

that are way more logical and reasonable than starting to stick a kid with an injectable that they're going to take the rest of their life. But it's not as profitable. Yeah, that's the real problem. And the advertisements about that, they seem to me the same advertisement. It's the same feeling I get when I see advertising about giving babies COVID vaccines. Like, what the fuck are you talking about? Like, you're just trying to make money.

You're not trying to protect babies from COVID. That's fucking nonsense. It's not a problem with them. It's just not. It's just statistically not an issue. It's certainly not an issue for you to be promoting this potentially dangerous, dangerous remedy. Yeah. Another example of that is that, you know, we were a foster family growing up. So we had up to seven foster kids at a time in my house. And I remember...

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that the hep B vaccines that all those little kids had to get. And I didn't think about it at the time, but again, hearing some of my friends like Callie and Casey talk about it, the vaccine schedule's crazy because you're giving a child, a brand new baby, essentially a hep B vaccine. The only two ways to contract hepatitis B is a,

Basically, you're injecting drugs or sexual activity. An infant's not going to have that. So why expose them to the risk factor of a potential adverse event when we know autism rates are through the roof? All of these different health issues for children are climbing and increasing.

At some point, we have to assess what we're doing and say, isn't there a better way? But I know enough about how that system works and how things are negotiated on the back end and the lobby. And now it's established and now it's hammered home. And then you assemble and you go have a meet with all the pediatricians nationwide. And you have people as spokesperson that push that agenda and get senators and congressmen and women on the hook to go, yes, we need these vaccines incorporated as part of our policy to protect these children. And I don't think...

It's not that it was there. I don't think everyone's in on it. I think people are being duped and it's so siloed. That's one of the other things you and I have talked about historically with medicine. Medicine's so siloed. They don't look at the full human body. They look at I'm a knee guy and I'm going to look at the knee or I'm a mental health specialist and I'm going to talk to this patient about their mental health.

But your mental health is intertwined with your physical health, your mental health. And this is what Dr. Palmer from Harvard talks about. You know, if we have metabolic disease and all these metabolic crises, it's going to lead to mental health issues. No question. There's been proven studies that show that SSRIs aren't as effective as exercise by a large measurable amount.

Like exercise is more effective at curing depression and treating depression than SSRIs. That's a fact. Yep. But, you know, you can't make money off of someone running around this block unless you sell them sneakers. Yeah. You can only sell them one pair of sneakers like every six months. Well, and what scares me— At the most. And again, not to shit on the GLP-1s because we prescribe GLP-1s. We utilize GLP-1s. They are a tool in the tool belt. And when utilized appropriately—

they can help people. But a hammer can kill someone if used inappropriately. And so if we make it our frontline defense, and again, we go back to the chronic disease crisis in America, and we say, okay, the food system's broke, then the people end up chronically ill, then we don't really assess people until our assessment tools in a primary care market are based off a sick patient population. If we base the demographic off the average American population,

that is dying of chronic diseases and that is our measuring stick, then why are we shocked when we continue to have a boom in people dying of chronic diseases and being diagnosed with chronic diseases?

Cancer, all-time high. I think there's going to be 2 million new cases of cancer diagnosed this year. Every single chronic disease is through the roof. The system is not working. I want to talk about you because one of the things that's interesting about this is, like, you were unhealthy at one point in time, and you were overweight, and this is how you kind of started this journey. And maybe a lot of people aren't aware of that. Yeah. Like, you weren't—

You had to learn all this stuff, and you had to learn all this stuff through your own personal health crisis. Yeah. I was, what was I, 29, 30 years old, early 30s, and I was 25% body fat, pre-diabetic, headed towards all the same chronic diseases that we're talking about. What was your diet like?

My diet, I had, well, originally my diet was terrible. It was a traditional American diet, right? So I was a surgical rep and I had to be in the OR by 7 a.m. And so I would go do CrossFit every morning. Then I'd go to the OR. I'd be in cases all day. I would eat whatever I could. I would drink a Starbucks Frappuccino, not realizing there's 1,800 calories of sugar and chemicals and no nutrients. I just didn't know. And I grew up in a family, again, a foster family where...

We were middle class America, but maybe it was the 80s.

Eating healthy was like eating wheat bread instead of white bread. It was eating low-fat Lay's potato chips and a Diet Coke. That's literally what my family thought was healthy. And that's a lot of Americans. They don't know. And you just stay with what you're indoctrinated into. So I started seeing a nutritionist in my 30s, and I did lean down, and I lost weight, and I was getting healthier, and I was headed the right direction, and I was still training. But he was like, if you're doing everything I'm saying—

And so let me take a step back. I would go to a primary care and it would take three months to get in with a primary care. Then they would just pull a basic lipid panel. And then I would say, well, can we look at my hormones? No, no, we don't need to look at hormones. We're going to look at your lipid panel. We're going to do a wellness check. Well, that doesn't include hormones in this.

in this country. It's not a deep dive because they're scared to do that because the insurance companies control what they'll reimburse and not reimburse. And so clinicians in this country are terrified to do the deep dive and they only have six minutes with you. So they got to get you in and out of there. Right. Long story short, six months later, still,

fat still trying to lose weight working out every day seeing a nutritionist nutritionist that I want to refer you to urology buddy Dr. Larry Lipschultz who's one of the godfathers of urology and hormone optimization in the United States and when I went and met with Larry he

He was shocked after he pulled my blood work and was we actually did it twice because he just didn't believe my readings. And my testosterone level after seeing him was 98. Oh, my God. It's it's insane. And he's like a woman. But I know it was terrible. And so he's like, of course, you're he's like, I don't know if you're fat because I told this story before. I don't know if you're fat because you have low testosterone or if you have low testosterone because you're fat.

But you are fat with low testosterone. And so that was my baseline. What were you eating then when you went to the nutritionist? By then I was using the nutritionist. But then it was a question of did I dig too big of a hole? And then the question is are you overtraining and you're crashing what little hormones you have left and your body's trying to get ramped up? So we ended up treating at the time with HCG and clomiphene. Let me ask you this. What did the nutritionist tell you to do?

Oh, we prioritize protein, one gram of protein per pound of lean muscle mass. We cleaned up my diet. If you make protein the basis of your diet because you need a gram of protein per pound of lean muscle mass to maintain. If you're trying to gain lean muscle mass, you have to up that protein intake. And then based off diet or lifestyle and activity level. And so we would prioritize my carbs through certain times of the day. We would keep me at a caloric deficit and we'd prioritize protein in that caloric deficit.

and what you'll find is mind-blowing. You aren't as hungry. If I don't eat

a muffin and a Starbucks coffee loaded with sugar, I don't have that insulin response that causes the hunger cravings a few hours later where I'm back to eating another unhealthy meal choice. If you eat protein first, eggs, hearty, heavy foods, dense, nutrient-packed foods, your appetite is suppressed. It's a natural appetite. You can't overeat. It's really hard to overeat meat. It is. And so we prioritize proteins, healthy proteins like chickens, fish,

All of those sources. And then healthy carbs. Get away from sugars, whites, starches. Prioritize healthy carbohydrate sources that are slower burning, that allow you to metabolize the protein that you're absorbing. Fruits and vegetables. So how much weight did you lose that way? I literally went, well, starting on diet, I probably lost about half of the weight that I was trying to get off.

So I know body fat percentage, he got me from 25 down to about 15. And then when we added hormone optimization, not testosterone at the time, it was HCG and clomiphene, which boost your natural testosterone levels, being monitored by a clinician within physiological norms, right? To try and make sure that we're optimizing my health, not trying to get jacked and tan. Right.

It literally helped me go from 15 to, at the time, I think I dropped down to around 7%. And I did not change anything. I was working out the same way, eating the same way. 7% is very lean. Yeah. And now I walk around 12 to 15. That's sustainable. And I think in my 40s, that's a level that makes sense to me. But-

I think the way to do that is you don't wait for people to get chronically ill. I should have never been at 25% body fat. If we were getting proactive and predictive and we were truly doing deep dives into individuals and taking the time for our clinicians in this country to sit down and assess you at the biological level, then we can prevent these chronic diseases. And I'm not talking about through cancer.

pharmaceutical intervention. We can prevent these through diet, lifestyle, nutrition, and helping teach the patient that there's a better way. And if we need to involve pharmaceutical intervention, it's there. There's options out there that can help patients kickstart their health and wellness, especially people in their 40s.

So when you did this, how much time did it take overall from the original nutrition intervention to hormone optimization? Like how much time are we talking about? It took about a year. And that's where it gets crazy with the insurance model. So a lot of people don't know this. Like most insurance carriers in the U.S. don't practice preventative. So testosterone would be considered a lifestyle drug.

The challenge with like an issue like the DEA, if they really do overregulate testosterone and shut telemedicine companies down from prescribing it, it's going to limit accessibility for these patients because primary cares don't want to prescribe it. Right. And so they're going to punt them off to a urologist. Typically for an insurance company to cover it, you've got to have two or more fasted blood tests of a testosterone below 250 nanograms per deciliter. So that's a chronically ill man. I mean, that's...

To come back twice, I mean, that's going to take you six months to get in with that. You're all that's in the dream world.

So just to get the insurance coverage, you're talking six months to a year. And by then, that patient has been chronically ill, headed towards metabolic disease, diabetes. We know that testosterone is important to insulating us from certain types of cancer. It's important to our metabolic health, our bone mineral density, our lean muscle mass. All of these tie into health and longevity and health span in preventing chronic disease. Do you think that the reason why...

they make it very difficult to get hormone optimization is because if more people get hormone optimization, more people are not on these medications.

I think somewhat, yes. But I also think the insurance model is an obstructionist model, right? And so I can give you a different example with the opioid crisis. You know, there were non-addictive, non-abusive pain creams, okay? If somebody is going to be put on, they have an ACL surgery, they're in pain. I'm not here to say there's no need to ever have a pain pill. But in those instances, there were alternatives that,

are non-abusive, non-addictive. What are the alternatives? There were ketamine-based pain creams that were topicals that could not be diverted or you couldn't extrapolate the ketamine out of it and abuse it. So nobody ever got high or stimulated from it because it's a cream that you can't extrapolate the ketamine out of. So you could not abuse it. You couldn't divert it if you wanted to. So it just works locally? It just works locally to address that knee pain. Insurance within 12 months quit covering it.

because those creams cost hundreds of dollars, whereas an opioid's like, I think, $10 a month, right? And then the other thing you'll find is the pharmacy benefit managers who the insurance companies own

have reimbursement deals on certain drugs. So when you get a drug, it's not because it's the best drug or the most efficacious drug. It's because the PBM, pharmacy benefit manager, has negotiated a rebate and decided to place that drug on tier one or tier two based off their financial incentive in that drug. Testosterone has been on the market so long. It's compounded a million places. There is no rebate for the big drug.

pharmaceutical companies are the big insurance companies on testosterone right and so it's just an additional cost and so the more they can obstruct things that cost money but don't pay dividends back to them they'll put obstructions in the way so another example is not only did they shut down alternatives to opioids during an opioid crisis

They also cut lab reimbursements on toxicology screenings at the same time that we're on an opioid bender as a nation. They got rid of the last safety net, which was if you come into a pain clinic asking for opioids, they're going to make you do a toxicology screen to make sure that you're not abusing other drugs, that you're not diverting the drug, that this medication is actually in your system.

All of those reimbursements used to be covered by insurance companies, but they got rid of that. And so as soon as they got rid of that, there was no checks and balances. And so it is layered. It's very nuanced. It's never as simple as yes or no. And I'm just I'm telling you what I saw. I'm just trying to tell you what I saw. I'm not saying I have all the answers. I like how you had your guts there. But I mean, that's all highlighted in that Netflix documentary that Peter Berg made about the Sackler family, which is incredible.

In not documentary which called docudrama series that fucking series is so enraging and after that You know that one guy that they

kept in a hotel room for like two days. Ahead of the FDA. Who knows what they did for that guy, to that guy. What the fuck did they do to him? They got him to approve that. They found that guy. That guy was in a small town in New Hampshire and they ostracized him. People were just, the sheriff was like trying to highlight how many people in the community had died of opioid overdose and how much blood was on his hands. Well, he took a job with the Sacklers.

Yeah. He worked at the FDA, approved that, took a job with Sackers, which I know we beat that horse dead too, but 13 out of the 15 last, out of the last 15 heads of the FDA, 13 have gone to work for industry.

And that's tough. That puts everyone in a tough position. If we're going to allow people to work one place one month and then go work for the bad guys the following month, how can we regulate that? It's so dirty. How is that legal? A lot of people don't know the Sacklers, that was their second time creating a crisis in America. In the 70s, they created the Valium crisis. Oh.

They got all the women. I think it was one in three housewives were addicted to Valium in the 70s. One in three? Congress went after the Sacklers then, and they ended up taking a settlement, and they paid their way out of it. Slap on the wrist, no criminal charges ever brought forward. And they rode off into the sunset after creating this Valium crisis of the late 70s, early 80s. Oh, my God. Jamie, pull up that tweet that I sent you from Jay Bhattacharya.

So Michael Pollan, you know, he's highlighted the dangers of pesticides. The USDA funded a PR organization that worked with agricultural interests to downplay the harms of pesticides in farming and to compile defamatory dossiers on opponents of pesticide use, including food writer Michael Pollan. Just imagine that the USDA spends money to

defame people

Using your tax dollars spends money to defame people that are trying to tell you that there is poison in your food. Measurable amounts, something along the lines of 90 plus percent of Americans have Roundup in their system. They have glyphosate in their system from crops. That was one of the things I learned too. Five percent of the human brain mass and weight is now made of is now plastics.

We learned that in the hearing too. 5%? Blew my mind. Never heard that statistic. Oh my god. It's terrifying. Revealed. The U.S. government's funded private social network attacking pesticide critics. So what does it say about this?

In 2017, two United Nations experts called for a treaty to strictly regulate dangerous pesticides, which they said were a global human rights concern, which, by the way, Roundup is illegal in a lot of countries. Citing scientific research showing pesticides can cause cancers, Parkinson's disease, Alzheimer's, and other health problems. Publicly, the Pesticide Industry's lead trade association dubbed the recommendations unfounded and sensational assertions.

But what's crazy is this is Monsanto, which is also Bayer. And we talked about that. This is the company that knowingly infected people with HIV and shipped it to third world countries because their hemophilia drug had been contaminated. And they knew they'd get busted if they shipped it in the U.S. So they shipped it to third world countries and knowingly infected thousands of people with HIV. Put that back up, Jimmy.

And we're trusting these people? Look what it says here. Publicly, the pesticide industry's lead trade association dubbed the recommendations unfounded social assertions and private industry advocates have gone further. Derogatory profiles of the two UN experts, Hilal Elver and Baskat Tansak, are hosted on an online private portal for pesticide company employees and a range of influential allies.

Members can access a wide range of personal information about hundreds of individuals from around the world deemed a threat to industry interests, including the U.S. food writers Michael Pollan and Mark Brittman, the Indian environmentalist Vandana Shiva, and the Nigerian activist... You say that one. How do you say that? How do you think you say that name? Nimobasi? Nimomo? Ninamobasi. Ni...

Nemo Bossy. Many profiles include personal details such as the names of family members, phone numbers, home addresses, even house values.

The profiling is part of an effort which is financed in part by U.S. taxpayer dollars to downplay pesticide dangers, discredit opponents, and undermine international policymaking according to court records, emails, and other documents obtained by the nonprofit newsroom Lighthouse Reports.

It corroborated with The Guardian, The New Lead, Le Monde, Africa Uncensored, an Australian broadcast corporation, and other international media partners on the publication of this investigation. The efforts were spearheaded by a reputation management firm in Missouri called V-Fluence. The company provides services that it describes as intelligence gathering, proprietary data mining, and risk management.

The revelations demonstrate how industry advocates have established a private social network to counter resistance to pesticides and genetically modified crops in Africa, Europe, and parts of the world, while also denigrating organic and other alternative farming methods. Wow. Wow. I mean, it doesn't, it's just, I think it was Jason during the testimony, he said, and this resonated with me,

Do we need double-blind studies to know that chemicals we spray on pesticides and chemicals we spray on fields that cause infection

Disruption in mitochondria of insects and destroy them at the cellular level might Possibly can we at least say might possibly create some sort of issue? No, that's unfound other biological beings unfound That's an unfounded assertion more than 30 current government officials are on the membership list Most of whom are from the US Department of Agriculture This is so crazy

It's so crazy that this is so blatant. What gives me hope, though, is they were willing to talk. That does give me hope, Joe. Like, the Senate...

They took a risk, man. They took a risk. They allowed us to come in. They did say, hey, we recommend you don't go too hard in the paint. And everyone said, fuck that. And they just dropped bombs like they know. They're insiders from their space and they know. The only way it's going to affect people is these viral video clips have to go online and people have to share them on Facebook and Instagram and Twitter. Thank God they can, you know, because who knows if the government could clamp down on it the way they have in other countries.

Other countries have severely clamped down and there's been some real issues in America, but America still is the best place to distribute information. I mean, X is banned in Brazil right now, right? There's a lot of shenanigans going on all throughout the world where people are trying to control narratives and it's fucking spooky. It's spooky. If we look at it, if we really look at it, if it wasn't for you...

I would have never met RFK. And if it wasn't for coming on your show, I would have never got my message out there. If it wasn't for Tucker's podcast, Callie would have never got his message out there. And Casey. Well, it wasn't for you. You know how banged up I'd be, dude? How many times you've helped me with stem cells? I, you know, I talk about it all the time, but I know there's a gentleman that I'm friends with that I've just been talking to who's going, he's about to go to a disc surgery.

He's getting his discs fused. And I'm like, Jesus, have you looked into other options? Have you looked into stem cells? I mean, you could go to Tijuana. And I know those guys at the CPI have treated many people, including my friend Shane Dorian. He had fantastic results. My friend Tom Land in Utah as well. He went down there and got his spine injected. Fantastic results. I tell people all the time, like...

I love CPI. I love all these guys. All ships rise and fall with the tide. We're in this together. Our battle is not each other. Our battle is the federal government. You're very, very good about that. I think that's very important to say, that you're not a competitor of these people. You feel like there's more than enough for everybody, and you're more than happy that these people are around. I'm just glad there's a voice, because we've got to get the message out there that there are alternatives, and this...

It's almost like a fairy tale that they've told the American people that, hey, if it's an FDA approved product and it's in a hospital or your doctor tells you it's good as gold, it's science. And it's not. A lot of it's never been researched. A lot of these doctors, unfortunately, are ignorant as to all these other remedies that are effective. I can tell you working with primary cares, there's some of the hardest working, most effective.

patient-focused folks out there, and they're just tired. They're beat down. They're exhausted. They've got to see 40 people a day. Most of them are now employees of a hospital. And so the hospital doesn't really care about the primary market because it doesn't make money. The reason you have the primary care market is to control the referral network to the hospital system. And so they need those primaries referring knees, shoulders, elbows, hearts,

spine, you know, brain neurosurgeries, that's where their money is made. That's where they can really build insurance companies and get big reimbursements. But I think it's also what I was saying that a lot of these doctors aren't aware that this stuff works. I told you about my shoulder injury. When I went to the doctor, he told me, "You are going to have to have surgery. You're going to have to bite the bullet one day and have surgery."

And I was like, shit. He goes, you could try other things and it might help you for a little while, but you're going to have to have surgery. The only thing that gave him pause is when he did the strength tests with me where he pushed down on my arm and did all that kind of shit. But I just think that's because the muscle around the damaged joint was strong. And so he was like, well, you know, you're pretty functional. He goes, MRI, you shouldn't be able to do all this stuff according to your MRI.

We still battle that. I can tell you, GSP, he's coming in again this week, and he's talked about us, I think, on your pod. He's posted about us. He's the man. He's amazing. But when I met him, he was a skeptic, and he said, I know I'm talking to you because of Joe, but my doctor said this is bullshit. I'm up in Canada, and he said that there's no such thing and that I have to have surgery to fix this shoulder. We failed.

We fixed his shoulder. He's posted about it. He never had surgery. He went back in. The doctor's like, I don't know what you're doing. And there are dozens of NFL athletes we've worked with. I don't think any of them other than Aaron Rodgers has told their doctor they're working with us. Like big name athletes. But they're scared of the team doctor. Yeah. Well, kudos to Aaron because the team doctor was trying to tell him to avoid all that stuff, including stem cells. Yeah.

It's just nuts. And I think the doctors aren't doing it because they're bad people. I think they don't know. I think they don't have time to do the deep dives. Most doctors, how much peer-reviewed literature do you think most doctors who are in orthopedic surgeons, who are in practice, how much are they absorbing? How much time do they have between malpractice insurance, between medical school bills that they're in debt with, between the overhead that they have to run their practice?

I mean, they have to get people in and out of the office quickly. Well, and you also go back to who funds studies and who funds. When I worked as a med device rep, I can tell you we funded studies, but those studies were going to be focused on and geared towards moving our products. Of course. And so we didn't have a stem cell or...

biological product because we sold hardware and we wanted ACL surgery, shoulder surgeries, knee surgeries, because that's how the company made its living. And so again, it wasn't that we were against it or trying to destroy it. It was more of if you can trivialize it and focus on what makes you your check, that's where everyone's at. And everyone's so compartmentalized, it's easy to almost have plausible deniability. So like,

Somebody comes in to a primary care, and they're overweight, and they're diabetic, and they're anxious, and they're not sleeping. The doctor's going to write them five drugs and push them out the door, not because they're a bad person, but because that is how we teach clinicians to practice medicine in this country. Right. That is the dogma of the situation we're in. They're taught, prescribe first, ask questions later. Rather than deep dive, understand the root cause of the disease,

Let's understand what is this person, like the question you asked me, what are you eating? How much sleep are you getting? Are you getting sunlight? Are you stressed? But all this takes time. Correct. This is the issue. If you want to move people in and out of the office, all this takes time. One of the things that you guys do at Waste to Well is you do comprehensive blood analysis.

You know, when I sit down with Denise, my eyes glaze over and it's my body. You know what I'm doing? It's like, God, there's so many details to cover. There's so many things. But by following those directions, I've noticed a giant difference in my overall health.

It's amazing. It is amazing. And it's just unfortunate that this kind of resource is not available to more people, where more people don't have access to a doctor that's going to look at them comprehensively, look at their whole body. Like if you were going to take care of your yard, if you're trying to grow plants in your yard and your trees are all dying, your vegetables weren't growing, if you had the resources, you can go to a botanist.

Or you could go to someone who understands farming, someone who's a scientist, and you could say, what's wrong? And they could do soil analysis. My friend Steve actually did this. He was trying to put a garden in his house in Brooklyn. And they found that leaded gasoline from all those years, from like the 1960s, all those years where they used leaded gasoline in Brooklyn because it's polluted, all that shit had gotten so deep in the soil that

That it was, his backyard was contaminated with leaded gasoline. And so you have to do a detox on the backyard. So there's certain plants that you can plant that can help in that process. There's certain treatments to the soil that can help in that process. Why aren't we doing that with the body?

If you could do that with your backyard. I know. If you could do that with your backyard. Well, just think about it. I can give you another example. Like one of the tests we do, and I don't promote it. It's expensive, and it's because the lab we use is expensive. But it is amazing, and it's a cancer screening. And so we in our healthcare system today only screen for essentially proactively five different types of cancer, tumor-based cancers.

Okay, well, there's a blood test that can screen for over 200 tumor-based cancers, and it can tell you when you're at level zero, right? Undistinguishable, because usually how they're diagnosing is through...

imaging. And so the challenge with imaging is pixelation, right? The image can't capture the cellular level. Blood work can. So at the cellular level, we can tell you when you're at stage zero on a cancer up to seven years prior to you developing cancer on over 200 different types of cancer. Why would that not be implemented into our healthcare system? Or at minimal, what I argued with the Senator about was, okay,

Let's just say we can't afford this for all Americans. Why in the hell wouldn't we at minimal be doing this for our firefighters, our military veterans? We know that over 70 percent of firefighters and military veterans will develop cancer in their lifetime. It's staggering because of dealing with ballistics and weapons and guns. And all of those are carcinogens. Firefighters are dealing with smoke and smoke inhalation and all the different chemicals they come in contact with. I never thought about that in terms of guns, like shooting guns.

Like when you shoot guns, like if you go to a range and shoot guns, like how much toxic chemicals are you absorbing? Yeah. Well, all that gets in your skin and gets absorbed through the skin. So there are – there's carcinogens in all of those things. Especially indoors, right? Mm-hmm.

Like an indoor range versus an outdoor range? And it's disproportionate. Our first responders and our military personnel disproportionately have higher cancer rates. Especially firefighters. Yeah, think about all the things that they breathe in that are on fire. I mean, look at how many veterans have suffered because of burn pits. Yep.

which is an insane thing that they did. They said, oh, we have all this garbage. What's the most cost-effective way to get rid of it? Let's make a massive fire that runs 24 hours a day and throw tires in it, fucking plastic, everything. Whatever the fuck you got laying around, throw it in that burn pit. Oh, and when the wind blows and that shit goes straight through camp, that's what everybody's breathing. And who knows how many people develop cancer because of that. I know multiple people that I know personally that have...

developed severe illnesses and even died because of that. Well, and you can even see when we talk about diet and food and environment, it's even happening. Wasn't it Biden's son? Didn't he develop? I think he developed a disease that was theorized that it came from burn pits. Oh, I don't know. See if you find that.

I believe that's true. I believe he served... It wasn't meth? No, that was the other son. Okay. One son was the good guy. Biden addresses possible link between son's fatal brain cancer and toxic military burn pits. Isn't that insane? His own son. So crazy. So he couldn't even protect his own son. I mean, he's a powerful politician. Well, that's... And his own son... We tried to... Like, that was the message I wanted people to get...

Yes, we were talking to senators, but the truth is we were talking to the American people. And it was, guys, we don't have—my thing to the public is I'm not here to tell you that I have the answers to the test. I'm here to tell you I have the questions to the test. And I'm telling you what I saw, and I'm being honest, and I'm trying my best. I am not fucking political. Left, right, left.

Different wings to the same bird. Like, I will say right now, the right is talking about this because of Bobby Kennedy. And I know that Trump is wanting to meet next week as a health expo to dive in and try and understand from people in the industry what's going on behind the scenes and how –

We're headed towards this chronic disease crisis. But what gets scarier is if we don't get this under wraps, we've got a rapidly aging patient population. We have a rapid decline in the amount of primary cares. You know, I talked about this last time. We're going to have a 30 percent shortage in primary cares, and it already takes three months to get in with a primary care.

We're headed over a cliff. We have got to get chronic disease under control in this nation, and we got to do it fast. And I want to say something, too. There's a lot of people that vehemently disagree with a lot of this stuff. And there's a lot of people online, like the people that write the articles, the woo-woo stuff.

They just don't know. There's no way they actually knew what was going on in a comprehensive way and would still write those articles. You would have to be evil. I don't think those people that are writing those articles are evil. I think they're doing a job, and I think they're being directed, and I think they're being directed by people that have a vested interest in this information, just like we talked about with that USDA thing. They have a vested interest in this information being dismissed.

And there's money behind it. There's a financial interest behind it. They try to say if we can't agree on one topic that we have to disagree on all topics. And that's the most frustrating thing to me. My neighbor is amazing. She's an amazing person. She sent me a message and was like, you know, Bobby Kennedy sold out and blah. I'm not I don't care about the Maha movement. And I'm like.

This isn't about Maha or Trump or any, this is about people. Because she's a hardcore liberal? Yes. But I'm like, this is about people though. And don't let them fool you. Don't let them fool you. Like I agree. I don't agree with the Republicans on half the things. It's just the problem is Trump as a person.

People just react to him in the most negative way. Yeah. And they are fully convinced that all of his negative character traits, all these negative things are unbefitting to a president and therefore he shouldn't be president. I think...

Anybody who wants to be president is fucking insane. They're all insane. I think it's just like kind of everybody else that's a leader in almost every industry. I think they're insane people. I don't think you get to the top of any heap unless you're out of your fucking mind. And you could be out of your mind in a vicious way.

sort of demeaning, attacking all your enemies way like Trump is. And it's still the same drive is what led that guy to deal with this shit for four years where they were trying to put him in jail so that he doesn't run again and still run again. And they try to kill him twice and he's still running. It's like you... I mean, I don't know. He's a way braver man than I am because I would retire on an Iowan. It's a different kind of human. And my point is...

the only way you get someone who's not affected by that is you have to have an insane person.

It's literally the best tool for the job because everybody else, all the different trials, the 34 counts which were not felonies, which they upgraded from a misdemeanor which passed the statute of limitations, all of them were bookkeeping errors or mislabeling things which is illegal. They're minor offenses that would not get anybody prosecuted, misguided.

Much less put in fucking jail real potential for him being in people want him to put him in jail They want to put him in jail for a long fucking time and it's crazy you're doing it at the same time where ice admits that what are the numbers of murderers and Convicted criminals that have made it into this country. It's something bananas and this is just verified this is verified data and

Do you know what it is, Jamie? Because I could find it. Because somebody sent it to me and I literally couldn't believe it's real. So I'll send it to you and you can find out if it is real. Because if it's true, it's fucking bananas. And...

Just the sheer numbers, they're scary. These are scary numbers, man. It's like no one thinks this is a problem. Look, I am the product of immigration. My grandparents came here at a time where it was very easy to come here. And I just sent you a screenshot. See if you can find out if it's true. It was very easy to come here. And a lot of people who came here were criminals. Look, a lot of people in my family were criminals.

You know, they were Italians in the 1920s. It was just a lot. My grandmother went to jail. You know, when I was a kid, my grandmother went to jail for a book. I know when you watch The Godfather, the original Godfather, it's the ties to Italy and how intertwined all that is is wild. And that's based on like somewhat based on reality. My grandmother's sister murdered her husband.

So yeah, I grew up. I had a these are wild people These are people that came over on a fucking boat before YouTube didn't even know what it was like over here They took a chance they took a chance so I am completely sympathetic to to immigrants But you can't let in fucking gang members

Okay, there's got to be some kind of screening. You want to make it easier to get in for people that are hardworking, people that just want a better job? I'm with you. I'm with you. Just make it easier for them to get in. Make it easier for the people that have been here for 20 years to become citizens. Make yes. I know people. I know a kid who was – she's 28 now. She was born in America.

But her – no, she was born in Mexico, but her parents brought her over here when she was a baby. So she doesn't speak Spanish. She has been in America her whole fucking life, and she's not an American citizen. So she can't vote. She's limited in the kind of jobs she can do. It's fucking weird. It's weird that we do that. But yet my grandparents just came over on a boat and fucking – they write a piece of paper and they're in. It's nuts. Yeah.

We should have a screening process to keep evil people out. That's it. Everyone else, look, you imagine if you're born in Guatemala, wouldn't you want to come over here and get a job as a landscaper? Fuck, you could make 600 bucks a week, 700 bucks a week. Oh my God. And then you live in a family, in a house with a bunch of people, which they're used to doing anyway. And then someone branches off and makes their own business. And all of a sudden you're living the American dream, right?

This is what we all want for everybody. There's enough for everybody, but you can't let in murderers. Yeah, there's gotta be a process. This is crazy. And you can't let them in and ship them to swing states.

And then try. I mean, it's just so in your face. Ship them to swing states. And then there's all this talk now of amnesty for all the people that came in. Well, I'm all for amnesty for the people that have been here their whole life. Like this girl that I know who's 28 years old now. I'm all for that. Yeah. Yeah. That makes no sense. She should be American. She's a fucking American. She pays sales tax and all this other tax.

yeah, yeah, those people, but there should be some sort of a screening process. You know, if you're in fucking gangs that bring in fentanyl, hey,

Maybe we should let that guy in. And this is the whole idea of having borders in the first place. And what's shocking is if you try to come here legally, it's very difficult. I've had friends from Canada, like comedians from Canada that want to move to America. It's a long fucking process to become an American citizen. It's difficult. And you have to do homework. You got to answer tests.

But if you just walk in, they'll give you money. They'll house you. They'll give you an EBT card. They'll give you food stamps. What the fuck are we doing? Well, we must be doing something. So it's either one of two things. Either we want cheap labor, and this is what Tim Dillon thinks. He thinks that the cheap labor market for construction and all these jobs that most people don't want to do anymore, it's falling off a cliff.

And the best way to sustain those industries is to bring in cheap labor. And the best way to do that is to bring in migrant workers because they're willing to do jobs that a lot of people won't. And this is the positive side of like Springfield, Ohio, where people talk about the Haitians that moved there. The people that employ these Haitians say these people are hard workers. They're so happy to be here. They want the American dream. That's great. That's what we want. We want more of that. That's all good. But

You can't make it insanely difficult for a college educated person from Norway to move here because they want to do literally like when Chamath was on, he explained that when he was over here going through his visa process, they had to show that he was doing something that an American couldn't do.

You have to be someone of exceptional skill. Oh, that's wild. A very difficult person to find. Yeah. And then you could get a passport. I mean, you can get a green card and eventually become a U.S. citizen. But it's a long process and a difficult process because every year where you go to get your visa renewed, you're at the whim of this person.

Who knows if they had a bad day? Who knows if their fucking wife just started fucking the mailman and they found out about it and she drained their bank account? And he's like, fuck you. Go back to Canada. They can do that to you. They can do that to you at a whim. But if you walk in, Nancy Pelosi wants you to get amnesty. I've got a buddy who's a wildlife photographer for Cabela's and he –

I can't he's somewhere somewhere over in Russia, but he it literally took him years to get his citizenship. And he would he became friends with the girl who worked at the guy who approved his desk and would literally message her. And she's like, nope, not today.

No, not today. And he waited for a day when the guy was having a great day and went and had his meeting and he got his citizenship. But it took him years. And now he's working here for Cabela's shooting wildlife photography and living the dream. And he grew up reading in Russia, reading these books about the Great West and like he wanted to be a cowboy. And he tells these stories. But he is an example of somebody who believes in the American dream. And that's

That's where I go back to. It's difficult for them to acquire. It's difficult. So let's see what it says here. Department of Homeland Security spokesman Turd Newsweek. The data in this letter is being misinterpreted. The data goes back decades. It includes individuals who entered the country over the past 40 years or more. The vast majority of whose custody determination was made long before this administration. Okay, so, but you are still saying that those people are here.

noted in his letter that ICE is bound by statutory requirements not to release certain non-citizens from its custody during the pendency of removal proceedings. He added that most non-citizens who are convicted of homicide are typically not eligible for release from ICE custody. Like, listen, if you fucking kill people, if you're an illegal alien and you sneak across the border and you kill Americans...

How about nobody's eligible for release? How about that? Let's just start with that. Well, I mean, if you're a felon in the United States, you're not allowed to vote. So wouldn't it make sense that we don't accept somebody with a criminal record into the United States? Like we have, you know, we have a lot of fights that we're already fighting and a lot of budgetary restraints as a society that we can't really...

dig ourselves out of the hole with right now. Bill, we have so much money for Ukraine. It may be shocking to hear the Biden-Harris administration is actively releasing tens of thousands of criminal illegal aliens into our communities, but their own numbers conclusively prove this to be the case. This defies all common sense. Read a statement. Newsweek has contacted the Harris campaign for comment via email outside of standard working hours. What does that mean?

What is standard working hours? Oh, that's why they didn't get back to him? It was outside of standard working hours. The email arrived at 5.15. Put that back up again. Department of Homeland Security spokesperson told Newsweek the data in this letter is... This is the one that says... So this is a Department of Homeland Security spokesperson says it's being misused. Scroll that down. Scroll that down a little bit further. See what it says there?

Uh-huh. Congressional Republicans voted against them twice. Democratic presidential candidate added, we took executive action to reduce unlawful border crossings. See, this is the thing that gets weird. It's like, you know, they say that Trump, the Biden administration is trying to say that Trump blocked some sort of border wall bill because he wanted it to be something that he could campaign against. So he instructed the Republicans to vote against it.

It's there's so much that kind of fuckery. I don't know if that's true or not, but it's the possibility of that being on the table. That's I'm not accusing anyone of doing that. But imagine a world where it's.

A person could conspire, and I'm not saying they did, but a person could conspire to make something happen because that would be something that they could campaign against. Look what you did. And that's how dirty this game is. That's why nobody wants to do it. Unless you're fucking crazy. Unless you're crazy like Trump. And he just waits. He sent Mark Cuban a letter when Mark Cuban's television show failed.

in like 2004 or whatever the fuck it was. And someone posted it on Instagram today. See if you can find it, Jamie. But it's so petty. It's so petty. And the fact that he signed it and sent it to him. Took time out of his day to have someone draft a letter. Probably didn't type it himself. Have someone draft the letter and send it to Mark Cuban in the mail. Yeah.

But it takes that kind of a person to literally make their way through the system. The only way you get through all these attacks. And we've seen the full force of it. It's like we've seen all the orcs that were hiding in the forest. They all came out. The level of hell that those people go through. This is the letter. This is from 2004. Mr. Mark Cuban. Dear Mark.

I'm truly sorry to hear that your show has been canceled for lack of ratings. When I initially called you to congratulate you on The Benefactor, little did you or I realize how disastrous and embarrassing it would turn out for you. If you ever decide to do another show, please call me and I'll be happy to lend a helping hand. With best wishes, Donald Trump. What a savage. But what a crazy backhanded...

Why? I don't understand. I mean, what beef? They must have some kind of beef. They've had a long beef. What is the beef about? The guy's hilarious. That is hilarious. It's hilarious that he takes time out of his day. Yeah. Not just like say, good, fuck that guy. That show got canceled. Takes time out of his day to write like a conciliatory. I'm sorry. Sorry this happened to you, man. Yeah. You fucking loser. Like literally writes it in there.

The whole thing is wild. But what's hard is people use those things to distract us and to divide us. And like, even with my neighbor, I know we agree on 80% of the things. It's like, hey, I'm not against or for anyone. Like, I'm not against Kamala. I'm not against Trump. I'm for team humanity. I am for... I am too. Can we work together to solve the problem? And whoever wins, whether Trump or Kamala, I hope that we can continue the momentum in the dialogue. And I hope that...

you know, we can truly have an open conversation that gains traction. And what I love about it being public is it's forever memorialized in public record. I think we can. There's no hiding it. Yes. And I think it will. And especially in today's day with, I've seen so many videos sent me of your testimony and I've had them recommended to me on Instagram too from accounts that I don't even follow. So it's getting around. But I think it's,

What's also interesting is that social chaos, it unveils things. It unveils things about human beings. And that is one of the benefits of having a guy that you can decide is Hitler, right?

Like, even though half the country loves him, half the country loves that dude. Maybe more than half the country now. There's a lot of silent loves that guy people. Yeah. Because they realize like there's not a lot of other options out of this other than a fucking crazy person who would write Mark Cuban a letter like that.

You need to be insane to pull this off. Yeah. And you might need to be insane in a way that you or I would find distasteful. It is insanity because even at a smaller level, just testifying in front of the Senate, the level of hate and just like misrepresentations of truth. I don't even want to call it lies, but to me it's lies. The level of like misrepresentation and taking things out of context and it just –

It just doesn't seem genuine and it doesn't seem like people are really fighting for truth. They're fighting to win a game. You were genuinely shook by it, but what I told you is the truth. Nobody cares. Don't read it. Nobody cares. Don't read anything about yourself, even good things. Nobody cares. People know what the fuck is going on. They get to hear you talk in forums like this. They get to hear you actually talk and lay it out.

They know who the fuck you are. All this is all just noise. But the good thing about this kind of noise, this social chaos, is that it unveils all this corruption. It unveils the orcs that are hiding in the forest. You see it. And I am convinced that

If they know the efficacy of foreign countries using social media bots to attack people, they know that that works. They know that that shifts narratives, especially for people that are sitting on the fence. They know all that stuff works. If you don't think that there's companies in America that we're not aware of that organize social media campaigns and have bots attack certain individuals like yourself, for

For you know having a dangerous narrative if you don't think that you're crazy you're what's insane to me Joe is what part of saying hey

We need to better understand how we're growing our food, how we're processing our food, how we're preserving our food. Maybe leftover petrol chemicals aren't the best way to preserve our food products in America. You're not allowing that in other nations. And we're looking at the data, the statistics and the numbers, and we're saying something's not right.

The point of that conversation was to say today's the day we start the dialogue. You know, the journey of a thousand steps starts with one. And I look at it and say, my message was, how do we fix this? Well, we start by acknowledging there's a fucking problem in the first place. They don't care. This is just about money and just about justifying the things that you're saying, the narratives that you're pushing to try to get that money. If they came out with an article saying,

If someone did a peer-reviewed study that showed that if you drink exactly 13 glasses of water a day, you never get sick and you never get cancer, there would be articles the next day saying if everyone drinks 13 glasses of water a day, there'll be no water for black people and people of color and indigenous people. The trans people would die of dehydration and the wells would dry up and then the crops and we're not going to have food and there's a lot of impoverished people.

You don't need 13 glasses of water a day. There would be some sort of a justification. If you came up with some sort of a diet that you could follow and everyone would live to be 150, there would be an article about how dangerous it is to tell people to stay healthy. Because if we all live to be 150, the resources will all be gobbled up. Literally, we're there saying diet, lifestyle, nutrition, getting proactive, predictive, and personalized. That's the message. It's a beautiful message. The system's waiting for you to get sick, and then they're giving you drugs.

Rather than waiting to get sick and taking a drug, let's get proactive and predictive. Let's look at you at the biological level. Let's stop the chronic disease from developing at its roots and prevent this crisis. And don't you think there's a way that companies can do this and make money in an ethical way? Absolutely. There has to be. And that's where I say, at my company, I'm not a philanthropist. We make money, and we're doing it for a fraction of the cost of the system today.

We really are. Like, the patient's getting a deep dive into over 70 biomarkers, an hour on the phone with a clinician. The only way I can scale this and make it better for people and more cost-effective is AI and large language models, which is what I'm rapidly running towards, which even in that Hatchet Job article, she says...

And he's illegally using AI to prescribe. I'm not prescribing medicine using AI. She claimed that? Yes, she said something to that nature. Isn't that defamatory? I'm like, we are using AI to assess blood work, and then it is reviewed by a doctor.

board-certified clinician that then reasserts the AI's homework, and the AI is just there as an additional tool. Now, the vision of the future, and I think this will happen, is I think AI will replace a lot of primary cares in America. It's going to replace a lot of things, and anybody denying the efficacy of AI at this point is ignorant. You have to be ignorant, willfully. You have to be willfully ignorant, because the...

They have used AI right now to diagnose diseases that people miss. They believe that AI is going to allow to assess breast cancer in a much more effective way because it can do something with visuals that human beings can't see with the naked eye because you're detecting things. AI is going to be able to have a much, much higher percentage of

of a chance of catching that cancer. Even at a great cash pay clinic, you know, like I think Ways to Well is a phenomenal clinic. I think there's hundreds, if not thousands of phenomenal cash pay clinics. Peter Attia is brilliant. In any of those practices,

The clinician has to do a chart review before you come in. That's going to take them at least 20 minutes if they're doing a good job. Then they're going to spend 45 minutes to an hour with you, walking you through everything in your chart, what they saw, family history, genetics, everything.

epigenetics, cross-reference that with blood work. That's a lot of work. AI can do it instantly. Instantly. And at your own timeline and discretion. So your blood work comes back. Joe, you're busy. You don't have time to get on the phone for 40 minutes with a provider. No problem. You log into the app and you ask Alan. Alan, hey, remind me again, what was my blood work on testosterone? And then Alan's going to tell you. And then you can ask this AI anything.

And it is backed by all the peer-reviewed journal studies, white paper studies, all the data that we've loaded in that has been cross-referenced by our clinical team. And we're guiding that. It's not an open architecture, but we're allowing it to...

essentially help practice medicine in a way that we believe is the appropriate approach to medicine. And how can that be bad? I just think in the future, it's going to be the way of the future and it'll allow us to get cost effect. Crazy. The world is that something that straightforward, the way you laid it out so brilliantly.

Someone could label that as bad or woo or woo woo.

How much subcutaneous fat? I have your epigenetics, your genetics all loaded in. I know your family history. We've done a cancer screening. I know that you have no forms of cancerous tumors in your body at this moment. From there, now we have a clean bill of health and a starting point, but we're tracking you. I know that Joe slept five hours on Saturday. I know that Joe got one hour of sleep on Saturday. And then we can accrue those data sets

and begin to cross-reference it. Like right now, we have over 60,000 patients at Ways to Well. Imagine when it's nationwide and we have millions. How are you monitoring their sleep? We're not yet. This is the app that we're launching. So what would you use? We want to be agnostic, so we want to tie into Sleep 8. We want to tie into Loop, any of them. If you'll give us access to that data, we'll know what date you started prescription care. You'll be able to refill your medicine straight through the pharmacy immediately.

Because it's vertically integrated. Here's the challenge with traditional medicine. Every software is based on how to get paid from the fucking insurance company. That's it. Pharmacy software is 30 years old. It is purely based on how do I get my money from CVS? How do I get my money from United?

It's not meant to be a tool that helps drive health span and health care. But if we vertically integrate pharmacy software with the medical practices software, with the AI, the wearables, the REM sleep, it then knows what date Joe started glutathione or whatever, a peptide or whatever it is. And we're going to see if we can track that.

a marked improvement in heart rate variability, REM sleep, and all those variables. And then at the end of a year, we reassess you proactively and personalized through a DEXA and a VO2max. And we say, "Look, Joe, you gained one pound of lean muscle mass. You didn't put on any additional body fat. Your visceral body fat is at an all-time low. Your chronic disease score is an A+. We do not think you're headed towards a chronic disease. We are proactive, not sitting back waiting for you to get cancer.

We're going to roll our sleeves up and go to fucking work. And it's not hard. This does not cost a fortune. It is totally affordable. I hear all the time, like, this is your body. This is the one. This is how I ended my speech to the Senate. And I believe this 400 trillion to one.

400 trillion to one are the chances you are alive in this room today. What are we gonna do with it? Are we gonna let these bastards at big pharma and big medical profiteer off of our family members and profiteer off chronic disease? Or are we gonna take sovereignty and accountability?

Are we going to test ourselves and drive our health span and take ourselves out of their fucking shitty life raft that's going down? Like, it doesn't matter if you have a first Republican Democrat. Congratulations. You have a front row seat on the fucking Titanic.

That's where we're headed if we don't get proactive is not a left or right issue. This is an American issue. That's all I keep trying to hammer home. And thank God the Republicans are talking about it. And I hope the Democrats will start talking about it. That's why it's so fascinating about ideal. That's what's so fascinating about ideological capture, that the thing that you would think would be one thing we could all agree on.

we should all be healthy. That that would get attacked and that it would be more cost effective. You could use technology and you have a much more comprehensive understanding of your health and that gets attacked. Yeah. That's how upside down things are. That's how not, and then there's people that if they think it,

helps their career or it helps them in journalism, it helps them get more connected, they will be the attack dog. They'll be the attack dog and go after someone with about as straightforward a message as you can get. Yeah.

It's wild.

Your friends can eat that candy, but you can't. Everyone in school is drinking their soft drinks and all these things. And it's bad for all of them. It's just some kids are metabolically showing it sooner, you know, but it isn't good for anyone who's consuming these things. And they're insanely addictive, too. And it creates an environment. Yeah, that this is an addiction issue now. And then that leads to a mental health issue and low self-esteem. And part of the problem with the addiction of food, too, is you have to eat food.

You know, it's not like anything else. Addiction to gambling, it's like you can stop going to the casino. Yeah. But addiction to food, it's like you have to eat food. So every day you're testing your will. Yeah. Every day in a profound way that if you stay out of the casino, you're not, you know, like he's not being tempted. But you have, imagine if you were a gambling addict, but you had to make three bets a day. Yeah. Yeah.

What? You're a food addict, but you have to eat three meals a day. That's fucking insane. And that's where the GLP-1s, where I do say like morbidly obese, chronically ill, diabetic, pre-diabetic, patients headed over a cliff. Yes. It has been rebranded as a lifestyle drug for any girl who's trying to lose weight for spring break. Right. Right.

That's dangerous. And it is dangerous to say that there is no risk reward to prescribe that in children. We don't know the long term ramifications. It's a little bit different risk analysis when we're talking about a chronically ill obese patient in their 40s headed towards chronic disease crisis that's going to kill them. Yeah, that's a different.

risk profile and safety profile analysis than a 12 year old little girl who's overweight. That's a totally different talk track. So, you know, I have some differing viewpoints from the other folks on that committee, but

But that's the beauty of a democracy. We can disagree on topics, but agree on the issue of we've got a lot of work to do and some things to fix. But it's very straightforward. You could disagree all day long. But what you're saying is so straightforward and so beneficial to everyone across the board. If there's anything that you would want in life, like if you've ever been sick.

Real sick. And you're like, God damn, I can't wait to be better again. It doesn't matter if you're rich. It doesn't matter if you're happily married. You love your job. If you're fucking dying, you're in bed and you literally can barely get up to pee. And then you crushed and you lay back down in bed. You go, oh, what did I do to fuck this up? How did I get so sick? I am going to take care of myself. I am going to fucking get back on track.

100%. A lot of people don't, but some people actually do. They actually do realize at that moment, like, I can't let this happen again. Like, whatever I did to my immune system, pulling all-nighters, working at the job fucking 16 hours a day, and then you get, like, a horrible flu and you're bedridden for two weeks. Yep.

During that time, the one thing you want more than anything is to be healthy. You ask a healthy person what they want, they give you a thousand things. You ask a sick person what they want, they want to be well. They want to be well. If you told a person who's worth like Bill Gates money, if you said to Bill Gates, hey, you know, you could have the flu for the rest of your life and keep all that money or give it all up. You're going to have to start from scratch, but you'll be healthy. He would give it all up and start from scratch. You're spot on and like,

You don't understand. I sit at dinners when I get the opportunity to be with my family and I look around the table and I really do think, Joe, ever since losing my brother, I am so present in those moments. And I just want everyone to be healthy. And I want the good memories to last. And I want to be able to watch people live happy lives and live.

All the data and numbers and statistics, they're so overwhelming that people lull over. And that's why in front of the Senate, I brought it back to I'm just going to talk about people. I didn't even talk about statistics because there were way smarter people out there than me from Harvard, Stanford, all these academic types that are brilliant. And I'm like, but at the end of the day, guys, if the Senate doesn't understand, these are your children.

Your wives, your brothers, your sisters, your husbands, your wife. These are family members. This is not just a number. These are real lives. 1.9 million people dying a year of chronic disease. That doesn't even include deaths of despair, suicide, opioid abuse. We are a chronically ill society. And those impacts destroy families. Destroy families. The ramifications are so far beyond that.

finances in numbers, but even finances in numbers, 24% of our federal budget, healthcare. Number one budget concern federally is healthcare. Number one concern for most states, healthcare. Number one reason for bankruptcy in the United States for an individual, healthcare.

It is a huge problem, but that's the dollars and cents of it. The real cost is paid in human lives and lost loved ones. And that's all I wanted them to hear is don't sweep this under the rug. These are fucking people dying. How much of an effort has been put forth after the whole Sackler family crisis and the opioid crisis to mitigate the amount of these things that are prescribed?

I think a tremendous amount, but the problem is then you swing that pendulum to overregulation and you've created a drug addict in the marketplace and all those addicts turned to fentanyl and black market products. Right. Because the addiction's already there. Now we've already addicted. More people are dying of opioids today than ever before. Even though they're prescribed less. Yeah. The damage has been done.

And that's what's hard. I don't know how you put that genie back in the bottle. The question becomes, what is the next opioid crisis? It's almost like a hoarder's house. Like, how do you even clean this up? You ever see those hoarder shows? You're like, what the fuck do you do with all this? It's almost like us. And the opioid crisis thing, the really scary thing is we're propping up cartels. We're propping up really vicious cartels.

People that are criminals they have to be vicious. I'd say you get ahead in that world You know there's no rules when you're an organized crime and you kill a lot of people and that's what you prop up when you have drugs illegal, but now if you have drugs legal and

If you just have – I mean this is a dilemma as well, right? Because if you just had legal drugs, everything was legal. How long would it take for people to figure out to not do cocaine? How long – if you could just get cocaine the same way you can get Coca-Cola, how weird would that be? I would even argue that the market we live in now is –

a pharmaceutical insurance cartel. You know, they are glorified drug dealers monetizing people's chronic disease and they have such a stranglehold over academia, the universities, they fund most of the studies, the NIH,

I mean, we just systematically go down from the food system to the government regulatory bodies to the enforcement committees to everything. They control the media. Like as soon as somebody gets, you know, get a little mouthy, anything, they come and hammer you and try to discredit you and portray it. Also, how transparent it is, like who owns the companies.

I know, but most people aren't going to spend the time to go, like, I looked because I'm like, who is this attacking me? I want to understand their viewpoint. It wasn't, oh, ha ha ha, gotcha, I'm going to bust these people. It was more of, let me try and understand the other side and try and see what we could have said that would have been so inflammatory because...

The message is hope. It was hope. It was unity. It was working together. It was drop the part. It's become healthy. Get America healthy. Anybody would be opposed to that. That's, I think, also a real problem with liberals during this election. The concept of make America healthy again is so bipartisan and so universal and so clear. And the fact that the Republicans are running with it.

They're so mad. Like that should have been something the Democrats, the Democrats used to be anti-poison. The left used to be anti, you know, corporations dumping pollution in the waters. They were against big corporation. They were pro free speech. They were against censorship. I mean, they were pro reasonable discourse. They weren't.

about censoring people and that everything's just gone so topsy-turvy that to have the left be against a movement, even you, what you should be saying is, yeah, fuck Trump. But it's,

this Make America Healthy Again thing, it's a good idea and we should probably do it too. We should probably just steal their idea. We should probably say, whatever you guys are going to do, we're going to do it too, but we're going to be a better president, so go with us. If they were smart, that's what they would do. People, oh, you stole that idea from Trump. She should say, yeah, I stole it. It's a good idea. I like good ideas. I'm not dogmatic. Show me a good idea, I'll accept it. And that's where I go, who has the most to win by dividing us? It's not the Democrats. It's not the Republicans. It is the

The powers that be. And when we peel back the layers, BlackRock, Vanguard, that own the majority shares of these pharmaceutical companies, that own the majority shares of most of the media outlets, that own the left and the right, they push agendas and they can control everything essentially except podcasts and free speech. And that's one of the things that Jordan Peterson said in a meeting the night before we testified was...

He implored us to stop trying to cater to the mainstream media because he said it's a lost cause. It's a lost hope. I hate to say that to you guys, but the world has given up on them. Why are you guys wasting your time with them? Focus on podcasts, books, areas where you can truly, in a long-form format, expose the truth and ask and respond to hard-hitting questions. And we talked about you and your platform and...

This is, you know, has been that people try to label it as misinformation at times. And I'm like, what part is me? Anytime I've come on, I've cited all my references on the Ways to Well website. I list reference after reference, study after study. Most of the things that they labeled as misinformation during COVID turned out to be true. 100%. I mean, especially, you know, what they did to Peter McCullough. Peter McCullough is the most published doctor in his field in human history.

He's not quack. Jay Bhattacharya, he's a professor at Stanford. Right? Isn't that where he is? What? These are the fucking actual experts. These are the real experts. Like, you guys are out of your fucking minds. And you're saying this is misinformation? But the problem is misinformation is like, you know, label it homophobe, transphobe, misogynist. Once they look racist, once they get you, they put that on you, misinformation. You spread misinformation.

Like what? What misinformation? Tell me. Tell me what wasn't true. And I'll even say and again, I don't know. I don't want to be too conspiratorial. We had I went to bed and the I was exhausted after that Senate hearing. I posted it. I'm a nobody. I didn't expect it. I went to bed and I want to say I have one point three million views. And I posted a rebuttal about one of the periodicals that was misrepresentative. And I just posted, hey,

Not a fair assessment of what happened today. 2,000 American people traveled from around the country to sit and hear an open dialogue that was bipartisan, backed by some of the best and brightest minds in medicine. Harvard, Stanford, Stedman Hawkins, all were present. This was not a bunch of influencers, blah, blah, blah. Shame on you. That was all I posted. Didn't get in the weeds.

Woke up the next day and all the momentum was gone. Like it. We only we still, I think, are sitting at one point three million. I don't believe. And then Casey got messaged. Hey, they'll de-platform you. Be careful if you start naming specific news outlets. And I still believe that somehow we got de-algorithmed or de-prioritized after we began to push back.

On the media for the stuff they were saying. Most certainly. I'm sure. And you probably got attacked anyway once they realized that it was gaining momentum. It's very creepy. And I wonder, like, at what level they can manipulate things at Google and at YouTube. I mean, there's a level that they can actively suppress videos and they can actively suppress social media accounts and social media posts.

You know, when my special was gonna go live on Instagram or on Netflix rather, on Instagram, Cam Haines put a thing in his story saying that it was gonna go live and they said that he couldn't mention me.

He wasn't allowed to mention me. He wasn't allowed to mention me. Yeah. I forget what the label was. Your JRE experience. I don't know if they're affiliated with you or just a fan page. JRE experience Instagram. He print screened and messaged me and it said this video is not suitable for repost or something. My video from testifying in front of the Senate. They won't let you repost. This was a Senate hearing. What are you talking about? So someone has their claws in matter.

that's able to suppress information. Someone has their claws in YouTube, someone has their claws. And you could use whatever label. You could say the advertisers don't wanna advertise on this 'cause it's a controversial subject and that's the problem. Okay, if that's all it is, but then it should still get a lot of views. So if you wanna withhold advertising,

But the views are substantial. That means that it's really being shared in a normal way with something so outrageous and something that gains that much momentum that quickly. It doesn't make sense that Peter's out that quick. It was too profound. It resonated with too many people. It was going crazy, and then I would see 100 new follow, 100 like whatever, and then the next morning, dead, totally dead. Like literally right after we were all trading texts about that article, and we're like –

I just cannot believe they reacted with an article this fast, and it's a total misrepresentation of what occurred today. That's all they need. And it tried to make it sound like it was a left or right-wing political movement, like a right-wing political ideology. And it's like everyone in that room – in fact, most of the people on the panel –

were Democrat backgrounds, registered Democratic voters. Like there were some Republicans on there, but it was a mixture is a melting pot. And we're all free thinkers. Like, don't take my ability to think critically away from me. I don't give a shit which party you're part of. I am here for team people. Let's talk about the issues and stop trying to make this left or right like it's not. But they're smart in that.

all they need is one or two articles in a respected publication to cite, to point towards the fact that this is misinformation. And someone from whatever organization would look at that and gloss over it. We'll suppress that. Yeah. And that's all you need. I even think one step further, I feel like

I feel like, for example, the New York Post article, I honestly, the way they worded that, they tried to make it sound like I'm just a regular on your podcast and I come on here and just shit all over the FDA. And I'm like, I'm doing my best to be transparent and say they're at a disadvantage. They're underfunded. They didn't build this model. They were put in this model. Right. And they're doing their best to navigate, but they're underfunded, understaffed, and

Yes.

It's not me picking on one person. Also, the people that work in the FDA, if you've been working in the FDA for four years, how much of a dent do you think you could put in the momentum of the machine that's behind you? What are you going to do? You're going to stick your neck out? You're going to get it chopped off. You're not going to move up the corporate ladder. It's not set up that way. And that's just the reality of being a human being and you go, hey, I do my best. Most of those people are like most people. They're good people. Most people in all walks of life are good people. But sometimes good people do bad things.

because they can or because they have to. The biggest thing I saw in healthcare was doctors were exhausted, whether orthopedic surgeons, neurosurgeons. I mean, I told you this. My buddy, he's a prominent sports medicine surgeon. He's a team doctor for multiple teams. He's had highest positions at hospital systems.

Even he says, what am I going to do, man? What am I fucking supposed to do? You know, I got it. I need to do surgeries. I've got to do a certain amount of surgeries to make all the all of this flow and work. And I've got to hold my team accountable for the amount of surgeries and their volumes. And you're never supposed to make it about volumes. But all of these hospital systems are incentivized off volume metrics that are based off volume.

cranking out the most amount of surgeries. And so there is a tremendous amount of pressure from the top down. And with insurance companies dwindling reimbursements and dwindling, like even primary care reimbursements, but also surgical reimbursements,

You're not going to be able to innovate when it's a race to the bottom, right? A total joint's paying less now. It's going to take an 8% haircut every year, and it has for like the last 15 years. So nobody's going to go out and buy some brand new state-of-the-art joint or even innovate a brand new state-of-the-art joint because...

It's all about commodity, commoditizing it and driving down the cost right now to make it affordable to even get a joint. So it doesn't even incentivize innovation. Correct. That's crazy, especially with something like replacement joints, which you would hope when they've gotten a lot better at that. How many people do you know that have had hip replacements?

I know a bunch. Yeah, a lot. I know a bunch. Yeah. And it's like they're walking around, like quick. Graham Hancock came in here six weeks after his hip replacement. Yeah. And, you know, he's 150,000 years old. Yeah.

According to his aging. Everything's older with him. No, I mean, Graham's got to be in the 70s, right? And back then, I'm not sure how old he was. This was back when we were in L.A. But he was walking around six weeks later. Fine. No limp. Nothing. It's extraordinary what they can do now. It's amazing. You would hope that they would continue to innovate in that way. You know what's going on in California right now with home insurance? What?

Okay. I did not. There's a real crisis in California with home insurance. Pull up the home insurance crisis. Home insurance is sky high and particularly in areas where they have wildfires because they lose so much. You know, I, where I used to live in California, I was evacuated three times.

That's crazy. Yeah. And the last time, my kids were real little, and we went in the middle of the night. We had to take off at 2 o'clock in the morning. The fire was coming over the hill that was maybe 200 yards from us. Growing up in Houston, I was used to hurricanes. A fire would be terrifying. Insurance keep dropping California homeowners. Changes are in the works to try to stop their cherry picking. So there's...

There's a you know they don't want to ensure houses that are likely gonna burn or go to fall off of a fucking hill like I remember I was watching this new special about Malibu and there was a mudslide in Malibu like a landslide so these people they parked these fucking five million dollar houses on stilts on the side of a hill like hey

Why do you think the side of the hill varies so much? Do you think maybe it moves? Do you think maybe over time shit fucking comes down? It's not like a smooth skateboarding slope. No, it's an unpredictable mass of land that's affected by years and years of drought. So when you get drought, you don't have plant growth. You have no plant growth. You get more erosion because there's no root systems. And then chunks of this fucking hill were falling off. And these people were in the middle of the night. They heard cracking.

as their house was breaking apart in the middle of the night. Their house started breaking apart and falling down the hill, and they got out just in time. Oh, my God. It was crazy. The guy was like, I just heard cracking. I thought someone was breaking in. Then we got up, and we didn't know what was going on. His house was cracking in half. Are they having that many claims? Is that why the insurance is that? There's a lot of claims with wildfires. There's not that many claims with landslides, but this was one that was like...

There's like California has some real natural disaster problems and the big one happens every 20, 30 years and hasn't happened since 93. That was the earthquake thing. Yeah, that fucking thing that happens over there all the time where everything fucking shakes and houses fall down and like –

Highways pancake. I came the first time I ever came to Hollywood I was doing this thing for MTV and I came out here right after the earthquakes in 93 and I was like this is nuts man I remember driving by a highway that had collapsed on another highway. It was like right afterwards and

I've only been in one earthquake, and it was in Japan when we were at Disney in Japan, and an earthquake hit. This was recently. Yeah. We were with Philip, Frank, and Lee, and Margarita, and Amanda and I were all there, and literally the earthquake hit. I get a text, and I look, and all the Japanese people are looking at their phones too. And it's like an amber alert. And I look, and it says, seek shelter, disperse.

point, whatever, eight points. That was a huge one. I don't know earthquakes. I don't want to tell you they're wrong. Whatever the giant one was that just happened. And every Japanese person just dropped to the ground and covered their heads. And we were in a cave, like a man-made cave at Disney. So Amanda looked at me and was like, fuck that, and just took off running. Oh, wow. And we like ran out of the cave. Good move. But everyone was just down on the ground. And then the tsunami warnings followed. And I was just thinking like, oh.

I grew up with hurricanes, and you know they're coming. You have like a week. The earthquake stuff is terrifying. Terrifying. Like, that is scary. Japan gets some big ones. And the earth is literally throwing things and moving. That's way scarier to me than hurricanes. The biggest one I've ever been in was a small one. It was like a 5.5, and they said it was actually an aftershock of the Northridge earthquake. But it was right after I moved to L.A. So it was like 94. I was sitting in my apartment.

And all of a sudden, my apartment moved like a refrigerator box. You know, if you're a kid, you'd play, like someone got a new refrigerator, your kids would play in the box and fuck around, make a little hut out of it. Yeah, yeah. You know, carve little windows out of it and shit. It was like that. The whole apartment moved like that. It wasn't even any noise. It was just the shaking of the building. But it seemed so flimsy.

That's all I could remember. I remember being like, oh my God, I thought you guys were tougher than this. Like I thought the house was tougher. I thought it was in a building. I thought it was in an apartment building. It was a two-story apartment complex. It just went like this. Yeah. And then it stopped.

And I remember going, I got to get the fuck out of here. I can't live in this place. Like, this is going to happen again. When I got back to the hotel, there was a koi pond, because it's Japan, beautiful koi pond, but it was up on like the 30th floor. Oh, God. All that water was just all over the lobby from the hotel swaying. Oh, my God. Yeah. Jesus Christ. And I was just like, this is scary. Like, scary. Well, and then tsunamis, the real scary thing, man. Whew.

Those videos of the Fukushima tsunami where people saw it coming and they're trying to get away. Those are horrifying. All the birds came first flying through. Animals know. Somehow or another animals know. When tsunamis happen, all the animals go to seek high ground. Okay, what is that? What is that? It's crazy. Someone should fucking study that. They're getting some kind of information. Some message from the universe is telling them to go to high ground.

Yeah, I even saw it. Well, they have senses that I think we have too that we just don't have anymore. You know what I'm saying? Like you and I talk about that when you go hunting and by like day two or three, you almost feel like you're more aware, more in tune to every noise. You feel the temperature more. Oh, yeah. Everything gets enhanced. Dude, you're so alive. You're so alive in the mountains. Yeah. Yeah.

You know, I got a I went to elk hunting and I got successful in the second day, which you can't pass up You know, it just was a perfect scenario and I got successful but I wanted to keep going I wanted to stay out there. It's just when you're out there it's the just the the physical act of being in the woods is like a vitamin that you don't need you don't know you need until you get it like I need his vitamin and

That's what I'm saying. Like a wildlife photographer. That'd be the dopest job ever. You're just in the wilderness photographing wildlife. Well, it's crazy. He's a wildlife photographer. But when you talk to him because he's been through shit, you know, living in Russia. He's worn out. But no, he's amazing because he's so optimistic and he'll say, and I agree with him, this is the greatest country in the world.

We are the greatest country in the world, but we have to fight for that. No, we have to torch the Constitution. Should we torch the Constitution? The Atlantic thinks maybe we should torch the Constitution. It's like, why?

Well, you know, it's all these interests. And I think the social chaos aspect of today, this is what I find interesting because I think it forces these kind of conversations. It forces people to deal with these problems. It forces it. Instead of like this healthcare issue being this insidious, never talked about thing that slowly crept up and just became ingrained in society to the point where everybody just accepted it. Instead of that, you

You have this rebellion and you do have this make America healthy again movement, which everyone should embrace. But yet it becomes ideologically captured by the right somehow. And if you are with that, if you think, hey, that's a great idea those guys have. I know that they suck when it comes to women's right to choose. They suck when it comes to whatever fill in the blanks. But I like what they're saying about this. Yeah.

We're so lost in this team thing that is ingrained in our fucking DNA, and they play us with it. They play us with it because we have these undeniable tribal instincts. It's just like when you roll a ball of yarn past a kitten. They can't help it. They got to jump on it. They have these instincts. You have it in your stand-up bit. That part where you talk about politics, that's 100% how I feel, and that's how almost everybody I know feels.

It's a lie that we all believe the Republicans or the Democrats. We don't. We're all individuals and free thinkers, and every topic is different and nuanced, and it's not that easy. It's not. But it's hard to find a party that represents everything you believe in. And again, I'm not political, so I focus on health care because it's what I know, and I know I can debate anyone on this topic.

I fucking know it. You want to talk about the Ukraine? I'm a moron. I can't help you there. I don't know. But I know health care and I know how broken it is. The problem is ideologies. The real problem is tribal thinking, because everyone should just embrace this and think this is this is really a good idea.

But the fact that it's been attached to one political party, it makes it a problem for the people in the other political party. And that's what's nuts about us. Even things that are universally good, that everyone should strive for. Better health. I've seen articles written that fucking people that go to the gym are more likely to be right wing. Like, what are you talking about? Go to yoga class. The example I can give you is one of the bills that they are putting in place is to –

Cover GLP-1s for every American that wants it. That's $1,500 a month right now because of what the pharmaceutical and insurance companies have done to price gouge and mark it up. Shouldn't be that. It should be under a couple hundred dollars a month. But it's not, and it's not going to be. And so I look at that and go, okay, for $1,500 a year...

You could get the DEXA, the VO2 max. You could be monitored with AI 24-7. You could get at minimal blood work twice a year, comprehensive consult, one hour deep dive into your biologics, and we could treat the root cause of the issue. Because I said this on Jillian's podcast with GLP-1s. I am not against them. I'm still a believer in them when utilized appropriately. But prescribing a GLP-1, a weight loss drug,

Without talking about diet lifestyle nutrition is like brushing your teeth while eating fucking Oreos all this is just makes no sense true but what I'm saying is that just the concept of Getting all these things out of our food supply making people healthy getting people off of all these prescription drugs making people more metabolically healthy

We're so stupid with our tribal shit that just that concept has been pushed into the realm of right-wing. You got it. If you're that, you're a MAGA person, you're this, you're a fucking, you're a loon. Yeah. It's so dumb. And it's the thing about going to gyms, being right-wing. I've seen multiple articles written about going to gyms, being right-wing. Have you ever been in a fucking yoga class?

Okay? Yoga is one of the hardest things to do. They're some of the most left-wing motherfuckers on earth. They're nice, kind people who bust their ass in a 90-minute hot yoga class. That's fucking hard to do. It challenges your character. Okay? The idea that, like, the only people that exercise are right-wing...

That is so dumb. It's so limiting and so stupid and such a ridiculous way to think. You should want to be stronger. Everybody should want to be stronger. You know why? Because it's good. I like that I can pick things up. I like that if someone in my house needs something open, they give it to me and I can just open that motherfucker. I like that. I like that I can carry things. What gives me hope is the Democrats were in that meeting and there were Democrat senators that were interested and

I don't believe that it's the Democrats. I believe it's an agenda beyond the Democrats. And it's not. I just think people are trying to intentionally create that strife and that separation. And I don't believe it's the Democratic Party. I believe it's people attempting to hijack the Democratic Party and attempting to trivialize this message by portraying it as.

political agenda rather than the facts of life of where we're at as a nation. That's for sure the root cause of it, but it is a thing now. And that's the problem. It's been effective. It's like many other things that's effective until people wake the fuck up. That's a thing. You know, there's not a lot of people going out getting COVID vaccines now. You got to be a true believer to go running out. It doesn't mean they're not still trying to sell it. I was watching the Beetlejuice movie the other day. So in

In the beginning of the Beetlejuice movie, they play all these fucking cool previews. Oh, that's coming out. That looks fun. And then they have a John Legend COVID vaccine commercial where he talks about how he's, I'll protect myself from COVID while he's fucking playing the piano.

And he like rolls down his sleeve to show you a fucking bandaid. You're like, what did you do? But the insanity of it is, Joe, let's even look at COVID. If we look at the people that died of COVID, it was because of chronic disease and comorbidity, which goes back to when we talk about it. And one of the things that's built into the new Ways to Well AI algorithm app that monitors your blood work is a calculation on your all cause mortality risk.

The goal is to drive down all-cause mortality risk. What people don't understand is if you're like you, a physically fit, lean muscle mass, low body fat, healthy individual, it reduces your risk of everything that could kill you. Everything. A car accident, which sounds crazy, but think your body is metabolically healthy and fit. Your chances of surviving and recovering are higher. Oh, for sure. So somebody chronically ill and sick...

It's not... You could throw a Diet Coke and kill them. You know? It's not like... They're already at a deficit. And we're trying to help people not be at a deficit. Let's get people back to normal. We just have to change the way people think about things. We have to change this ridiculous idea that your healthcare provider knows everything. They fucking don't. Your general practitioner, he doesn't. There's no way. And it's one of the things that...

Casey means talked about like how little nutrition information she got in college, which is really nuts But that's just the fact of the matter. That's just really what it is. And also most those people are also unhealthy themselves Yeah, we just got to stop thinking about it as a right-wing or a left-wing thing. It's dumb and it's dangerous It's bad for you. And I know it's hard to change your fucking people are like battleships It's hard to change course

It's fucking hard. It's also hard even in the system when you're separate from politics, when you're in there, there's local politics, right? You're in a hospital system. You're a primary care.

Man, you start writing a lot of testosterone and treating your patients, you're going to have the urology section of your hospital pissed off because they're going to go, what the hell is this primary care doing this? That's my spectrum. Send them over to me. Right. I could be making money off these people. Everything is siloed in a way that it makes it hard for these clinicians to practice medicine the way they would want. Which is why they're trying to stop telemedicine. Yeah.

It's not for you. It's not good. And it shouldn't be legal. And that's where I believe in government oversight. There should be an actual government person who can never get a job with any of these organizations, never get a job. It should be like if you agree to take this job on, you'll be well compensated, but you will never be able to work for pharmaceutical drug companies. Ever.

That should be a pre-req. Like even with food, we could overcomplicate food. Okay. Why not just say, if you don't ship it to Europe, don't ship it to Americans. Yeah. Duh. How is that hard? If we don't want to do the double blind studies and the research and I get it and it's hard to do and it's confusing, but at minimal...

We can follow the guidance of countries who have better health standards than the U.S. has today. Just think about what you said about war. Think about what you said about the American people, how many die from chronic disease every year. And think about how much money we have spent on a war that we're not even in. Mm-hmm.

I mean, what was the overall, what's the latest? Didn't they just send another few billion? A little bit here, a little bit there. I mean, I wonder how much they set aside for those people in North Carolina and Tennessee from that hurricane. Because those people are fucked. A lot of people are dead, man. I was reading this account. It was a horrific account of these people, grandparents and a child that were on a roof.

and it was before the roof swept away, the building swept away and they drowned. But there's a photograph of them on the roof and they're terrified. And this little girl and her grandparents are on this roof. And the water is everywhere. I mean, there's so many washed out streets and so many washed out bridges and the roads are gone.

Have you seen some of the aerial photographs? I have. It's terrible. It's terrible. Houses floating down the street in Asheville, North Carolina. Just floating down the street. And how much relief are they going to get? Is it going to be like Maui where you give them $700? Yeah. That's more insulting than giving them no money. A one-time fee of $700, you lost your house in the most catastrophic wildfire in the history of North America? Yeah.

You're going to give them $700 each, but you're going to give Ukraine $170-whatever billion? Yeah, and I heard Tulsi on here talking, and I'm like, God, man, when you look at, like, there's a lot to gain by those people not being able to afford to stay. That's what's scary. They're essentially homeless, and then they still got to pay their mortgages. They still have to pay these bills. They're not going to give them long-term mortgage relief. That's very valuable land if everybody defaults. And not only that, but the governor was on record saying,

give a speech like right after the fire. And one of the things they talked about was the state taking that land, which is an insane thing to do, right? Was it the mayor? Who was it that said that? Was it the mayor or the governor? But it was just the fact that they said it out loud is so insane in the wake of these people suffering this catastrophic loss. They didn't even know how many people were dead at that time. People were just missing, kids missing, burnt alive.

Who knows how many people died? I don't even think they have an accurate count right now of how many people died. When we live in a world where things change so fast. See if you can find that. I get how people would get overwhelming because I try to follow it all. And that's why I stick to my niche of health care. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because it's so much. This is crazy. I know. This is crazy that they're saying. Now, think about allocating that kind of money towards health care.

102 the death toll from the deadliest wildfire in over century has risen to 102 yeah but what what did the what did the what i asked you is what did the governor say about acquiring the land not the death toll yeah i don't think that i think 102 is the current estimate but i think there's a lot of people missing what do you know about like the ukraine one of the things and again i don't know enough to

I'm curious because I know you've interviewed a lot of smarter people than me.

I was told that one of the leverage points for the Ukraine in order to get funding was to put up land as collateral through – like their farmland is put up as collateral on the loans that are being provided. And those loans are essentially being provided by these big conglomerates. Dave Smith was explaining it to me. I don't really – I don't know. I haven't researched it. I haven't read anything about it. But, yeah, that's what I've heard as well. Because I always look and go, well, there's no such thing as –

Everything's biased. No such thing as a free lunch. So what is the real agenda and who's funding and why is always my question just from seeing other sectors and what happens. Of course. Always. There's always money behind it. Yeah. But it's also Ukraine is one of the most mineral rich places on earth. Like it's worth trillions of dollars and all sorts of different like groovy shit that we need to make stuff with. Yeah. What did the governor say? I'm trying.

I'll just go with what I have right now. Why don't you put it up for me? I am. Okay. So this is just a... It's the only one I've found so far. I'm already looking for states to acquire... Ways. Ways for states to acquire Lahaina. Put that in a search engine. That's why I'm on Twitter, because it wasn't coming up in a search engine.

So he said in his speech, but it's not talking about- And that's crazy, too, how quick stuff can be suppressed and disappear. Yeah, you've got to look. I started using Brave browser recently. I gave up on DuckDuckGo. DuckDuckGo seems to have gone the way of Google. It's very difficult to find things that are inconvenient. But Brave seems to be uncensored, and it doesn't seem to be curated. But after I said that, they'll probably get them, too. I don't know who to use. I don't know what to do anymore. It's like the whole thing is so bonkers. That's where all of this gets so hard. It's like-

I want to believe there's truth in that we have somewhere where we still have integrity and honesty and transparency. It doesn't mean you always get it right. But even redacting the articles doesn't happen. It's only in independent journalism now. You get that from Michael Schellenberger, Matt Taibbi, Glenn Greenwald. You get that from those type of people. You don't get that from anywhere else anymore.

And it's good that we have those type of people, that they're there and they'll hold people accountable and tell you the real numbers of things. And,

you know, and give you the facts behind what caused conflicts, not just report on the conflicts, but explain to you what happened. A fact check I found, I think this is what he said. He said, I'm already thinking about ways for the state to acquire that land so we could put it into workforce housing, to put it back into families, or to make it open spaces in perpetuity as a memorial to people who are lost. That is a crazy thing to say.

Because as soon as you say state to acquire that land and we'll decide the awesome things to do with it That's now you took very very very valuable in and you could say hey We're gonna sell it to a resort and the resort is gonna donate It's all these wonderful funds. How many people are missing from the fire jam? Cuz the problem with fires is like you need like dental records and shit and

you know, like when it gets down to someone dying in an inferno. Well, if they're missing at this point, they're gone. I have a buddy of mine that was a firefighter, and he told me some crazy shit. It's just going into a building with burning people in it is madness. Okay, so 1,000 people reported missing.

Whoa. Yeah, so this death toll. Way off. Shut the fuck up. Yeah, it's more than ten. 85 deaths were confirmed, but I think the problem is when they can say 102 deaths confirmed, and they don't say, but yet there's 990 people missing. You can say that because it's very difficult to confirm who these people are. There's not much left. It's so scary. Fire is so fucking scary, and when you've been evacuated by fire, there was one time where I was coming home from the Comedy Store,

Got evacuated the same day but as I was coming home from the comedy store as I was driving to my house The whole right side of the highway over the tops of the hills was in flame like all the hills Like as you get like woodland hills and shit in flames just in flames like fire coming over hills you're watching houses go up in flames and

It's such a weird feeling because that's when you realize that we all have this very naive idea. And by the way, people working on wildfires and those firefighters who work 24-7 and just fucking stayed alive on coffee. And those people are fucking heroes. Yep. But there's not enough of them. Okay. When this cop told me, this firefighter rather told me when we were doing Fear Factor once.

He goes, one day. He goes, one day a fire is going to hit the right conditions with the right wind, and it's going to burn through L.A. all the way to the ocean. We can't do anything to stop it.

And I was like, really? He goes, yeah, when they get real big, there's nothing you can do. And I always thought that guy was just, that was hyperbole until I saw what happened in my fucking neighborhood. And I was like, this is nuts, man. I don't know enough about, do they do control burns and all that in California now to try and stop, like create stop gaps and all that for the fires? Or how does that, how do they even do that? What is this, Jamie? Updated because. This isn't updated though.

From the first thing I found, which was... It says November 18th, 2023. Right, the original thing we read that said 1,000 was from September, so it was 60 days before this. Oh, September. But I thought it was September of this year. No. No? So it's still September 2022? So it says 100 days after the Maui fires, four names remain on the missing list. So they found a bunch of those people, is that what you're saying? Yeah, there's currently only two.

Oh, there's only two missing? Yeah. Period? I mean, I found the website that has their names listed. Oh, so the death toll is 102? Yeah. So why did they say, so the death toll was elevated when they thought 1,000 people were missing? Is that what it was? And then those people had a, there's only two people missing?

Here's what I looked up. I typed in Maui Fire people missing when you click on the first thing. That says how many people were missing in the Maui Fire. That's what I clicked on that you read. The date on that is September. So 1,000 in 2018, September 18, 2023. That's right after. And then in November, they had narrowed it down to four people? Yes. Okay, go back. What's below that? Why are so many people still missing in Maui? That's in September of 2023. Okay.

what does it say they have an explanation but i'm hoping maybe new york magazine has an explanation that makes more sense i'm not gonna be able to read it oh you sons of um did maui officials released uh the 388 names of people unaccounted for in the maui fire click on that it's down to two that's what i said it's on the website it has right two people listed

But what it says right here is more than 100 within a day. August 25th. I'm reading it. 388 names of people unaccounted for following the deadliest U.S. wildfires in more than a century. More than 100 of them or their relatives came forward to say they're safe. So this was in August. So 100 of the 388 people. So that number of 1,000 was just the initial number.

So that was like when- That's still crazy, 300 people. Yeah, I think it's just saying over 1,000 were reported missing. There was over 3,000, according to the other thing, were initially reported missing. That means that they could have found them the next day. Right. They found them two days later, three days later, an hour later. Right, or months later. But it's also an island. It can't be that hard to find these people. Yeah, but you probably don't report when you're staying with relatives in Honolulu because your house burnt down in Maui. You probably just go over there and stay there. Self-coverage problems and all sorts of stuff. They couldn't contact people, maybe. Yeah. You know, it's a lot of-

A lot of possibilities, I feel like. So that's good that there was less people died. That's for sure. But it's still fucked that they're trying to take the land. And what they're doing is they're making it very difficult for these people to rebuild. And most of them haven't even started yet. Well, and then I know, too. I mean, it's taken forever for people to get their insurance claims and their money. And that happens even here with hurricanes. It's a...

You know, if you don't have the money to pay for stuff yourself, you're stuck battling the insurance company. If you don't have the money to battle the insurance company, then you're really in a tough spot. Right. Yeah, it's dark. I had a – during a hurricane in Houston at our pharmacy, I had a tree damage the roof, but then it wasn't covered by flood insurance because they said it was wind-driven rain.

Anyways, it was like $60,000 in damage that the insurance didn't cover. Why didn't they? Because they could say it's wind-driven rain, not rising water. Oh. So water damage is very specific? Yeah, they have different ways of loop- Wind-driven rain is okay? Of loop-holing out of paying your coverage. That's crazy. And so for somebody who's, it's their house-

you know, who maybe doesn't have the money to fight the insurance companies. They just put a tarp on the roof and live with it as long as they can until they can afford to fix it. Oh, my God.

So when you got water coverage, you thought you were getting coverage from shit like that? Yeah, I had flood insurance, everything, and it doesn't cover it. So I got left holding the bag. Is there tree insurance? Can you get insurance for a tree dropping on your house? Yeah, there is. Did you not get that? Yeah, there is general insurance, but I don't know how it all works. You fucked up. There's different deductibles. Yeah, there's always a liability. There's always a loophole. Oh, God. Insurance is a racket. And then even in healthcare insurance, you know, like— What isn't a racket?

Is there a thing out there that's not a racket? I know church, religion, everything's a racket. Well, some church isn't a racket. Some church is great. Some church is very beneficial for people. I think that a lot more as I'm older. I think it's like a good—I think Zuby said this. I think he called it like an immune system. It's a good immune system to protect you from the bullshit in society. Yeah.

I think I'm paraphrasing him for sure, but I think that's accurate. As great as we are as humans, we are tribal, like you said. So we find...

reasons to see how we're different and where to argue and where to fight. And I think that allows corruption to creep in. Oh, yeah. It's insidious. It spreads. It's in every aspect of life. As soon as you let people have money doing a thing and as soon as you can attach something to something that people are deeply opposed to, like whatever Trump is for, you're against, you know, no matter what. It's just it's when you could find a thing like that, that's the enemy believes it.

People are so reluctant to look at real data. They're so reluctant. Even the people that don't want murderers and rapists and drug dealers sneaking across the border, they'll find a way to say, like one of the things they like to say is migrants statistically commit less crimes than people live here. That's what they say. They love to say that one. But you know what that is? You know what that's accounting for? Gang violence.

People that are in prison. You're looking at everybody. Statistically, they commit less crimes. Yeah, there's a lot less of them. Yeah. Yeah. And also, we have a lot of crime. So what the fuck are you trying to say? It's not like the average person is out there committing all these crimes. No, it's a very small number of people that are career criminals. They're poor people. They grew up in terrible environments. They started doing crime when they were young. They're criminals. They're career criminals. There's a small percentage of those, and they fucked the numbers up.

So if you want to say that migrants statistically, okay, statistically, but statistically that's not what we're talking about. We're talking about there's no justification for letting in murderers. Mark Twain, there's lies, there's damn lies, and then there's statistics. Right.

I mean, how do they find those statistics when they say that migrants are less likely? First of all, they're not even arresting them in some places. Like, were they treated as sanctuary cities? Like, people are dealing with that in Aurora, Colorado. They're not even arresting people. They commit crimes. Cops will tell you they can't arrest them because it's a sanctuary city. Yeah, in California, they don't arrest if it's under $1,300 or something. Oh, yeah. And they just let them walk out with TVs. They just got to make sure it's under, like, $1,000.

Apparently San Francisco, according to some people that I know that are living there, is getting better because of AI. So Chamath was saying that when the super nerds are running things, everything's great. But as soon as like the mid-level people start taking over, they get through with ideology. They get through with like progressive virtue signaling and that's how they get ahead because they're mostly mediocre people. And so when they start to get a grip of the city, you're kind of fucked.

But if the AI becomes the dominant force in the industry again, then the super nerds will be back in control again. And if the super nerds are in control, they'll fix all these things. They'll clean all – because it's logical. It's logical to not have people camping on the streets and fucking shooting up in the middle of –

parks and stuff. I wonder even with AI, like as we get down in that, like what you were talking about, it's a way more complex conversation than today, but like what are they going to do with the massive displacements in jobs between AI and robotics and humanoid robots? I mean, there's 10 companies out there that are launching robots, not just Elon, and those are backed by chat GPT and large language models that are rapidly approaching the level of human knowledge and intellect that robots

of the average human and like it's there. I walked by the Tesla store the other day at the domain. I was thinking of buying a robot.

Oh, they have them there? They have a robot. I don't think you could buy it. Oh, they already have it? If they could buy it, I'd be like, I would probably buy that robot. I was talking to my kids, like, you guys think we should get a robot? It'd be awesome. Would you trust that fucker? You trust that fucker? Russia could hack your robot. We already have, you know, everyone has Alexa in their house. And, you know, what was that one? Like, I told her, I made a joke about the government. I laughed. Alexa laughed. So did the FBI or whatever it is. Like, yeah.

It's so entrenched in our world. I don't know. I don't know. It is entrenched, but it's mostly illegal to use. Yeah. It's like mostly illegal what they're doing. You know, if the FBI is really using your Wi-Fi to follow you around your house all day long, that's kind of a violation of your privacy. Yeah. And that's a real technology that's available now.

And it should be available if there's a situation where there's a fucking terrorist and he's in a house and he's got a suicide vest and you can use Wi-Fi to locate him and know exactly where he is and you protect all these other people. So that's justification for having some kind of technology in the hands of some intelligence agents. Yeah. That makes great. But, you know, if you're using it to gather dirt on old Brigham. Mm-hmm.

Because Brigham's got a big old mouth when he's talking about the pharmaceutical drug. And, you know, you have a fucking group of people that are working to put together a dossier on you. Yeah. It's all nuts, man. It's nuts. And it's like right out in the open. Well, with the AI and the way things are headed, too, though, like when we talk about displacement of jobs, so many people think it's going to be like...

Trade workers. And I'm like, no, this is going to replace clinicians. This is going to replace doctors, lawyers, you know, a lot of. Dude, a lot of things. A lot. We're going to need universal basic income, according to most people who understand economics. I don't know if they're right, but it makes sense to me. Universal basic income scares me because incentive to taking incentivizing people to not work scares me.

You know, giving people an excuse to not – it's bad for people. It just is. It's bad for kids. If you just give your kids everything they want and they never learn how to work hard, you're fucking them up. And the problem with just giving people a check, they're not going to want to – if you get enough to eat –

and you have recreation money and you have a roof over your head and you don't have to work at all. Like in working for like a little bit more than that and then you lose those benefits. Fuck that. I would rather like pare down my lifestyle. I say this. You also need a purpose. Like in Viktor Frankl's A Man's Search for Meaning, he survived that Nazi concentration camp because he had a purpose, a higher calling. I can tell you

When I'm just eating shit sandwiches and getting my head stomped in right now running these companies, over 300 employees, DEA, FDA, fighting big pharma, all the things we battle, there are a lot of days I go to bed with anxiety and stress, but I go to bed feeling like I'm really on the right side of something positive. I really, truly do. You have a mission. When I was a device rep, I made good money.

But I went to bed miserable every night and I felt like I'm just kind of a pawn in a scheme and you know We're not really making an impact. So I go back to I think people humans we need a purpose And so that scares me the most is a lot of people's purpose if it's not being a mother or father or sibling they find purpose in their trade and their craft and their job and Right their cause so what do we do when it's a really good question that

If you wanted to look at it long term, if you're being objective and not taking into account human emotions and suffering and the disruption of lives that it's undeniably going to cause, if you just wanted to look at us objectively, you would say this is an inevitable transition, a very painful transition into a technological world.

And human beings are going to have to adapt. And if this was available to them when they were babies, they would have adapted to exist in that world. They would have find things to do for a living that only humans can do because they're very personal things that only humans can do. There's always going to be a market for handmade things. There's always going to be a market for I like a painting that I know the guy who made it. Yeah. You know what I mean? I love that. I love that. I look at like like that painting up there.

You know, my friend Taylor made that. I know him. Yeah. I hung out with the dude. That's Mitzi, right? That's Mitzi. But that is a big thing that Taylor made that and he's my friend. I know him. That's a piece of him. Yeah, you have some of the coolest art in your studio and at the club. I love art. Super cool art. Art's amazing. I love it. It makes me feel different. When I'm looking at something that someone made...

It makes me feel better when I see your leg over tensa. Oh, I love that It's like you're looking it is Insane the detail and like incredible crazy. It's the only thing I'm allowed to have my house Because it would look like a fucking a baby's house it was like a man, baby It would all be like toys everywhere. I'm not allowed to decorate my house, but I do have Three Greg Overton paintings. Yeah, I

Everything else, my wife figured everything else out. I'm just like, go ahead, just give me a little space. Give me a little something. I got an elk head in the kitchen, in the dining table, over the dining table. First elk I shot with a bow. But it's not like the stuff kind. It's just the skull. Yeah, you just do the European mouth. That's what I like. Do you have any taxidermy? No, I don't. Taxidermy, that's dolls. Yeah. You know, that's what that is. My friend Tyler does it. I love Tyler from Archery Country. Yeah. He makes taxidermy. Taxidermy's an art form. I think they look... Yeah. When you go to...

you know, one of these lodges where they have like entire scenes. Like I saw one, the guy on the second story of his house, like has a kudu drinking out of water and it's literally a crocodile coming up. I mean, it's wild. Yeah. Especially in Texas. Uh, my friend told me that he went over this guy's house and the guy had a stuffed chimpanzee. Um,

And the chimpanzee, when you got near him, it was like rigged where his eyes would light up and his dick would pop up. Right.

Like they had it, you know how you walk by those haunted house things? You walk by him, his eyes light up and his dick pops up. Because of you, we watched, what was the Chimp? Oh, Chimp Crazy? Oh my God. Oh my God. It's insane. Insane. It's nuts. These people are out of their fucking mind. And it's weird because it's the same as Tiger King in a way, like-

It's the same personality quirk. You know what I'm saying? Like it, it's this weird personality court. When you watch it, you'll see some of the, like, I don't want to say mental health issues, but some of the traumas or whatever they are. They're mentally ill people. Yeah. They're mentally ill, crazy people who have giant primates, uh,

That live in their house in cages. And everyone's face gets ripped off. Oh, yeah. They all take their noses off. Oh, my God. Yeah. They rip their eyes out. Yeah, it's nuts. And for the first four or five years, the monkey gets to go everywhere. So the chimp gets to go to the pizza place. Everybody loves them. Chimp gets to go here. But then they get a little older, and now they're in a cage all day. Yeah. So they used to be free. They used to go to the town. Everybody was their friend. Yeah. Now all of a sudden, they're in a fucking cage. And when they get out of that cage, they fuck people up. Yeah.

They're so mad. Well, and then they have that hormone dump. I think they were saying the male primates are like five or six years old, so they become really hard to domesticate or keep as a pet.

Because they get violent. I mean, that's their way of communicating. They castrate them. That's why that lady's 15-year-old. She can hang out with it and watch 2001. That's a castrated 15-year-old chimpanzee. That's why it's so skinny, too. It looks like Michael Jackson. Yeah. Skinny. The other ones look jacked, you know? They look like Mike Tyson in his prime. Have you seen the one on the— The kind of musculature they have is— I haven't messaged Tony about it yet, but the Vince McMahon. What do you mean? They just dropped a Vince McMahon docuseries on Netflix. Whew.

Oh, it's not about chimpanzees. No, no, this one's... Oh, what did Vince do to a chim? No, no, this is a new Netflix one about Vince McMahon and the WWE. It's pretty intense. No, I haven't seen it, man. Speaking of muscles. He was doing some wild shit. Of course he was. I mean, when you're that jacked in your 70s, what are you on? Yeah. Like, what do you want to be that jacked in your 70s? Yeah. The guy's probably out of his fucking mind and partying. Did he really shit on someone's head? Is that real? I'm still... I'm only on, like, the second episode, but they're getting into, like... There was a lot of...

There was some weird stuff. Like, they even... They were even bringing in little kids, kind of like going down that Epstein path. Oh, my God. They talk about that. Like, not kids...

Teenage boys, kids though, 15, 16-year-old kids working crews and stuff that were being utilized sexually and exploited. Oh, Jesus Christ. Yeah, there's a lot of sinister stuff in there. I don't know how much— But these are just allegations. Yeah, it's all allegations and whistleblowers and, I mean, who knows? You never know anymore. Imagine how much liberty you have to take with the truth if you make up a story about someone shitting on your head.

I feel like, you know what, this, whatever happened, not bad enough. I want, like, shit on my head. Let's, like, say shit on my head. Yeah. But to make that up, you'd have to be...

That's such an insane thing. But when you look at Vince McMahon, you go, I bet he did that. Yeah. I bet he did it. He looks like he's insane. He's fucking jacked and got a chain around his neck. But you also live in that imaginary world where you've created this character and then at what point does the character become you when you've done it for 30, 40 years, whatever it was? Right. Because he grew up. His dad founded it and he was integral into the storylines and then became –

Like his character was the pompous Vince McMahon. Right. Elitist. Like that was his whole character. That was his shtick. So did that bleed into life? Does reality become fiction become reality? Oh, it definitely does to people. For sure. It must. It has to. I know it does with comedians. Yeah. Comedians like become their character. Like Andrew Dice Clay used to be Andrew Silverstein. Yeah.

Dice was a character that he used to do in his act. And then it just became him. Yeah. You know? And like Sam Kinison, same thing. Like Sam Kinison became the beast because that's what everybody wanted. He was like captured by it. He became that guy. Yeah. Yeah. If you're Vince McMahon and like your whole thing is, fuck you, I run this game. You're all out of your fucking mind. I'm going to shit on your head. He probably just...

Just pushed it to the limit. Plus, you add in a lot of recreational substances, which I'm sure there was plenty of. What did it say about that? They haven't gotten into that. By the second episode, they're talking about steroid use, and they're definitely—I didn't know that they indicted him for selling steroids to his athletes. I mean, a lot of crazy stuff. Oh, really? I didn't know that either. Yeah, they tried to indict him, and he fought it. I think he got off. I haven't got that far yet. Have you ever seen any of the More Plates, More Dates videos about Trenn?

No, from Derek. I've watched Derek. I love his coverage. He's so smart. He breaks stuff down so eloquently. But there's so much talk about Tren, for whatever reason, and sexual deviance.

Like guys who turn gay when they're doing Tren. Like just these guys are taking crazy doses of this super powerful steroid. Yeah. And they're just doing wild fucking things. They get Tren cough. Yeah. They get like a crazy cough. Mm-hmm. And just out of their fucking mind. Yeah. Just deviant. It's crazy. It is. It's such a short-term thing.

There's so many bad things that can happen there. It is crazy to me that athletes are using that. But if you want a career in pro wrestling and you want to be a fucking animal and you want to get hit by a chair every night like you're traveling across the country, probably a good jug. They are some of the most banged. Like, God, man, we've had the opportunity to work with several big WWE wrestlers and they have put their bodies through hell. I mean, I would say even more than jiu-jitsu and MMA guys and NFL guys, out of everybody we've worked with,

The wrestlers are the most beat to shit. You know who's not beat to shit? The Rock. Isn't that crazy? I mean, he's got his little injuries and shit like that, but the guy looks like a fucking superhero. Yeah. He's 50 years old. He's been through, like, how many years of WWE? Also played football? And look at him. He's fine. Yeah. It's nuts. He's an anomaly. He's an anomaly. The most anomalous of anomalies. Yeah. Because all those other guys that I met, Jake the Snake...

I mean, Hulk Hogan's fucked, man. His back's fucked. He's got to walk with a cane. He's all banged up. And you see him shrinking. Well, his back's all fused. Literally, they're shorter and smaller than they were from all the back and spine surgeries. He's lost like four inches. So four inches of spine being compressed. So nuts. It's so crazy, man. And he said it was from that drop. Boom. We do that all the time. Every time he did it, he's compressing his spine. Yeah. Just ruined his back doing that. Yeah, it's scary. Yeah.

Speaking of someone who looks like a chimp, how about Brock Lesnar? When he flipped through the air and landed on his head? Yeah. Brock Lesnar looked like a shaved chimp. Like, if you see a shaved chimp, like, that's... Have you seen his daughter? Except he's too wide. She's a wrestler, too? Like, a collegiate wrestler? She's jacked. Jeans on. Genetics. That's Viking jeans. When I was in a boat, pulling into the harbor. Can you imagine being back there, like...

half starving and Brock Lesnar gets off a boat walking onto your land you're like oh god you're barely alive anyway and you see that guy get off a boat with a sword yeah that's what the Vikings were I think of that Shane Gillis joke oh yeah laughing

That's a great joke. But, I mean, they did do a lot of that, too. Yeah. They raped everybody. Yeah. The Vikings were unbelievably brutal. And they did a lot of drugs, too, apparently. They were doing a lot of mushrooms. Yeah, they were doing psychedelics and human sacrifices and all sorts of stuff. Yeah, they would sacrifice people. Did you ever see that show, Vikings? Oh, loved it. Oh, yeah.

Yeah, Ragnar Lothbrok and like, great show. Yeah, it was so good. Great show. My wife bailed on it after a while. She couldn't deal with everybody getting hacked to death by swords. Like after a while, like, okay. Yeah. Stop. As you got in the late, I don't know how far you followed it through, but it went into Ivar the Boneless. But all these are historical figures. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. And there's true, like, it's fictional. What is it? Fictional history or whatever it is. But it is, it is.

based in some truth, which is fascinating. Oh, yeah. The actual things that they did, they really did. Yeah. Which is just, they were so nuts, man. But there's been so many instances like that in history of like,

groups of unbelievable savages that accomplished insane things just by pure barbarism and slaughter of innocent people. Like the Mongols. I was watching something about Mongolia today. There was these guys who were fitness influencers went to go experience these Mongolian wrestlers.

And these Mongolian wrestlers, these giants of Mongolia, these fucking tanks, these dudes are throwing each other around and they got to eat food with them and hang out with them and experience it. That's what's left over. Did you ever watch Marco Polo? No.

I watched a little bit of it. I watched the beginning of it. I don't know what happened. It didn't get, but it was really, really good at Genghis Khan. And I think you've taught me. It's like one eighth of the world's population. 10%. Yeah. I think he was dealing with Genghis Khan's son. I think he was dealing with Genghis Khan's son. I think it was the empire was already in decline by that time.

You know, it's like once Genghis Khan died, his sons took over, his family took over, and then it kind of fell apart after a while because you need a fucking psycho. Yeah. You need a guy who's got DNA. And what was the number, Jamie, when we last looked at like what percentage of the population in Asia has Genghis Khan's DNA? It's something nuts. Like 5% of everybody. This fucking guy who lived in what, 1200? When did Genghis Khan live? I think it was 1200. Yeah.

So all these years later, this dude has 5%. Wasn't it? Was it you and I that were talking about if you go back to like ancient Mesopotamia, it's only like 50 something humans ago. If you base it off people living to be 100. Yeah. It's not. It's nothing. It's nothing. Okay. It's more than that. It's 5% of the male. Excuse me.

0.5% of the male population worldwide. Half percent. Half percent. Right, not 5%. Worldwide. But what is it in Asia? That is still crazy. 0.5% of the male population worldwide. But what is it in Asia? In Asia, I think it's nuts. 8% maybe? Is that what it says? Okay. 8%. That's nuts. So 750 years of Genghis Khan's heritage, this mutation occurred in 8% of males worldwide.

In 16 different populations that were being studied. So one half of a percent of everyone on Earth, 8% of people that live there. That is insane. So what was it like when he was alive? Was everybody fucking their cousin? Because you couldn't help it? Because Genghis Khan fucked everybody? So when they would conquer a town, he would take everyone's wife. He would just kill all the men, fuck all the ladies. They all became his wives. And he just did that everywhere he went. They did that in Ireland, too. The British...

uh

or aristocrats would impregnate the Irishmen on the night of their wedding. They would impregnate their wives. Oh, Jesus. That was where, that's what Braveheart was about. He came back and, I'm blanking out on his name, but fought for the Irish because they were basically raping their wives and making sure that they were raising British noble born instead of Irish people. Oh, my God. I just listened to a book on this. It's one of the myths that come from that. Not that it didn't never, never happened.

But they said that it didn't really happen. Jamie's a party pooper. Y'all notice that? They were going this far. Jack and Jamie. It was a great course on Audible. It was going through all this. And if you look at, like, they didn't really get into in the movie, but when we did Europe, we did a tour where they were breaking down, like, how bad they tortured him and mutilated him in a public setting prior to killing him. William Wallace. Oh, my God. It's brutal. Yeah. Yeah.

What's the myth aspect of it? Oh, about the, that they like raped the peasants' wives or whatever on their wedding days. Like there might've been one king or a couple of like...

Aristocratic type people that might have been dickheads and did it but it wasn't like a thing that happened regularly Yeah, so wasn't a pandemic of rape right there was a lot of raping going on well There's like yeah, I mean if you go back long enough. It's all rape Yeah, you know like how far do you have to go back in human history like was there any cave people that were like male feminists? Right, just fucking it was they were barbaric they killed each other they stole wives and

I remember reading this book about Comanche where they're talking about this one Comanche warrior who wanted this other Comanche's wife. So he killed the guy and ate a piece of his heart and then took his wife.

Like that was humans. That's what humans did. I will tell you, I know you had him on, but Empire of the Summer Moon, I'm so excited for that to come out as a series. Who's directing it? Is that Taylor Sheridan? Yeah, Taylor Sheridan. And if they do it, and Taylor's going to do it by the book. I know Taylor. He'll do it by the book. By the way, he's got a great steakhouse he just opened up in Vegas. The Four Sixes, Four Six Steakhouse. I think it's like a pop-up right now, but

But we ate at it last time we were in Vegas. It's fucking great. It's all meat from his ranch. What a cool guy. Cool guy. Got his own ranch. Makes a steakhouse. Supplies the meat.

It's fucking incredible. He's brilliant. And then he also leases the horses and the livestock and all of that to Paramount. Oh, that's smart. Yeah. And his ranch, he leases to Paramount, which is brilliant because he is a real cowboy with real cowboys that he, and I also love that he casts real cowboys into the subsidiary roles or the supporting roles of the shows. Dude, he's a cowboy at a ranch a friend of mine works at in California. Oh, really? Yeah. He like did real cowboy work. Oh,

Before he ever made it in show business.

Like, if you go to, like, from Yellowstone was great, and then there was 1883 was great. Yeah. And then the last one, the 1923, the Harrison Ford one, that's fucking great. They're all great. They just get better. I think 1883 is the most recent, and that's my favorite. That's the one when the family was making a cross. Yeah. I love because it shows how...

It just shows the reality of how hard life was. Yeah. I mean, it was brutal for everyone, for everyone there. Like, God, it was brutal times. And so accurate, like so accurate as to how people died and what they dealt with and-

fuck, man, people falling off wagons, getting run over by the wheels, like that kind of shit. That's why if you've ever played Oregon Trail in elementary school, or that's what they had when I was in elementary school, and I would always die of syphilis or dysentery. I would never survive. Dysentery or what was it? Dysentery or you get killed by Indians or whatever it is. But you look at how statistically unlikely it is that we're all here. Right. And I gotta believe it's for a reason. We gotta be here for something, right? We gotta be...

And I don't want us to squander. At the very least, if we're not here for something, at the very least, we can maximize our time here. You know, one of the things, the reason why this is very important to me is everything I do, I need energy. Everything I do, I need a lot of energy. I need a lot of energy to do stand-up. I need a lot of energy to do jujitsu. I need a lot of energy to do archery. I need a lot of energy to do podcasts. I need a lot of energy to do UFC shows.

If you're weak and tired, you won't be as good at anything you do. Anything you do. And the one thing that you have control over, if you're a person that takes care of your diet and exercise, the one thing that you're going to have control over is you will be able to give your vehicle more energy. That's real. If you really do the right things in terms of with your health, you rest accordingly, eat the right foods, take vitamins, work out.

plan it all out. That's what people say so often that like eating healthy, working out, it's expensive, it takes time, but being chronically ill is way more expensive. Way more expensive. It takes way more time and you have to choose your heart, but there is no path that's just going to be a cakewalk. You don't even need a fucking gym. If you have a YouTube account and a laptop, you can watch yoga videos and you can do them at home. If you get one thing

35-pound kettlebell. My friend Keith Weber, he's got this extreme kettlebell cardio series. He's got a bunch of different ones that you can do, but there's a few of them that are online. And I did one the other day. It was fucking brutal. 35-pound kettlebell. It doesn't cost anything to get one of those things. How much is a 35-pound kettlebell? You get it once. You never have to buy another one. And me, after all the years of using kettlebells, I still can get a fucking ass-kicking workout with one.

one 35 pound kettlebell. And if you think you can't, follow that YouTube video and try. Just give it a try. - Even walking. Casey has a stat she'll drop on you. I don't remember the number so I won't even attempt, but just walking a few days a week, I guess four days a week. - Especially after food. - It's insane the difference in all cause mortality risk and reduction in chronic disease. - Yeah, you gotta move around. Otherwise your body's feeble. If your body's feeble, it's not gonna be able to handle diseases, not gonna be able to handle injuries.

How many people die by falling down because they're older? You know, this is something that Peter Attia talks about quite a lot is that it's very important for older people to lift weights. You know, not for vanity, but to be able to protect yourself from falling. If you're falling and you're feeble, you can't do anything to stop the fall.

Yeah, after the age – I think it's after the age of 65, one of your greatest risk factors is a fracture. If you fracture a hip or a vertebrae, you have between a 15% and 35% chance of being dead within a year. Oh, my God. It's one of the greatest risk factors. And think about it because your body has to recover and rebuild, and you don't have all the –

health and youth that you had in your earlier years. So if you stay active and keep muscle and keep bone mineral density and get proactive and all the things we've talked about, if we start monitoring your bone mineral density in your 20s to your 30s to your 40s,

We know your family history. You're a petite girl. You're going to experience a decline in bone mineral density. We've got to get ahead of that. One of the things they did that ruined that for so many women was the Women's Health Initiative, scaring them out of hormone optimization for women. And it terrified women, telling them that it was going to cause cancer and all these things, which ends up being the opposite of what it does. And it did a huge disservice to women.

Oh, my God.

And so it's hard because they do say trust the science, and I'm not telling people don't trust the science. Trust but verify. Let's keep honest people honest. But the problem is that science is very difficult to verify, especially science that's given to you by the pharmaceutical drug companies. Because one of the things – was it John Abramson who's litigated these cases against pharmaceutical drug companies? One of the things that he was saying is that – he was part of the Vioxx thing –

that when you get the peer-reviewed data, you don't get access to the data. You get access to the review of the data. And you also don't get access to all the studies they did that didn't show a positive. I'm sure you saw that Steven Crowder thing where he caught that COVID czar guy.

Yes, yes. When he was talking about monkey pox, the monkey pox drug. That's nuts. That he was intentionally saying that he was being funded to say those things and mislead the public. That they were trying to sell more of those drugs. And that the reality is most people aren't going to get monkey pox. It's like you have to get it from gay sex. Yeah. Sorry. Well, and it makes total sense because, again, not to say –

And when you're in it, you think you're doing right. I don't think that people are out there trying to harm humanity. I don't. I really want to hope that's not the case. But when I was a drug rep at 22 and you bring in a thought leader from Harvard that tells me all the ways that they're using this brilliant mental health drug off label, right?

And then you put tremendous pressure and give me an expense account and send me out to drinks with a doctor. And I'm sitting there and the doctor's like, where else can I use this drug? You're like, do I tell him what that guy from Harvard told me? Because I also signed a contract that said I wouldn't. But then the company taught me all that.

and put me in this environment. And it's like a wink, wink, nod, nod. And the pressure is to grow the patient population on a drug. That's why GLP-1s went from being for diabetic, obese people to now let's help people lose weight for spring break. Real quick. Fantastic.

Fast. Real quick. And it got accepted fast. That's what's scary. And it got called the Kardashian drug, which was brilliant because there's no evidence they took it. Oh, really? I've never heard any evidence they took it. Yeah. But it's what you heard about. I saw it on Twitter, the Kardashian drug. In the early days of these GLP-1s, Ozempic and Wagovi, they were talking about it and people were calling it the Kardashian drug. And they were saying all these women in Hollywood are taking it. I don't even know if they took it because I know they have trainers.

You know? So they might have just worked out. It might be bullshit. Yeah. But everybody's like, oh, they're doing it. Those bitches. Like, one of my wife's friends sent her an image of this woman and said, oh, my God, everyone is on Ozempic these days. Just because the woman was skinny. It's like, first of all, that lady's always been skinny. You can find pictures of her from 30 years ago. She was skinny. Like, what are you talking about? Yeah. Everybody wants to, like, oh, that bitch, she's on it. So...

So we don't give anybody misinformation. We interrupted this podcast because Jamie found out at the end of the podcast that one of the Kardashians has her own GLP-1 daily pill. It's the latest product capitalized on weight loss drug. This is Kourtney Kardashian, who's the thinnest. She was always thin, which is odd. So just so people know. But the point was, at the beginning, everyone was calling it the Kardashian drug. Maybe they were right. Yeah.

Back to the show. And that's what people do with everything, though. They want to think that it's the most eye-opening thing having got behind the scenes and met you and then met Cam and met Aaron Rodgers and met all the – every person that you have introduced me to works their asses.

ass off the level of dedication and commitment and their schedules are crazy and the pressure is crazy and the stress is crazy and they have kids and families and they find a way cam's up at what three in the morning to go run 30 miles he doesn't have to do that anymore because he doesn't have a regular job anymore okay well that's good finally i tried to talk that guy into quitting his job for like 10 fucking years it's

From the moment I met him, I'm like, quit that job, dude. You can make more money doing this. I was like trying to convince him. It took forever. It's just inspiring to see because you can sit on the outside and think, oh, that guy who's on top of the mountain, he didn't, he's lucky. They got lucky. What you don't realize is you didn't see all the steps that it took for that guy to get, or girl, to get to the top of the mountain.

Cam was running marathons in the morning before work when he was working eight hour days. He would get up 3.30 in the morning, run a fucking marathon and then take three days off of work, take his vacation time and go run the Moab 240. Run 240 miles through the fucking mountains. That's a regular guy with a regular job. And if you don't get inspired by that and realize there's more in the tank than you think there is. And people like that, the benefit of people like that

is that through their discipline, you can learn that you could do these things too. You can get inspired by it. Maybe you can't run the Moab 240, but you will most certainly hold yourself to a higher standard when you know there's someone out there that's really busting their ass and trying to make things happen. It's motivating. Like Phillip Rowe, I know we've become really good friends. Philly Fresh from UFC. Love that dude. Dude.

Working as a UPS guy, raising two kids, training MMA in his spare time and trying to get all his work in makes it into the UFC. I mean, that's insane. How about Deontay Wilder? He was driving with Budweiser or Coca-Cola or something like that. Remember who he was driving for?

What was it? Coca-Cola? Driving, delivering trucks. At like 21, starts boxing. At 23, wins a bronze medal in the fucking Olympics. So crazy. Crazy. Budweiser. That's just so nuts. Delivering Budweiser. So the guy's just trying to take care of his family. The reason I'm saying this is there is hope, people. If those guys can do it, we can do it. To take care of his kid who had medical problems.

That's cool. He needed money to take care of his kids, so he just said, I'll become a pro boxer. That is so crazy. Crazy. And it has the gift. Yeah. This one in a fucking hundred million gift of power that he had. Yeah. It's nuts. But-

People like that exist to inspire you to do more. And, you know, you could say, fuck her, she's on Ozempic. Or maybe she's not. Maybe she's really healthy and she fucking works out every day. Maybe that. Maybe that too. Maybe instead of going, oh, fuck that, she's on Ozempic. Going, damn, that bitch looks good. What's she doing? Yeah. What are you doing? And then maybe find out what she's doing. Maybe just realize you could do more yourself. And if you did, everything that you could do to make yourself healthy wouldn't even have the urge.

to look at someone else and say, oh, she's on Ozempic. You wouldn't care. Yeah. You would not give a fuck. What you see is people, momentum creates momentum. And even individuals I know that have taken Ozempic, a lot of those people are, they just needed wins on the board and they needed to create momentum. And these really obese individuals, when they start seeing there's hope and the weight starts coming off,

As crazy as it is, the diet, the lifestyle, the nutrition, all that starts to fall in line more and more. And then they get a win on the board, and now they're the guy who's going to the gym three days a week. And that's the benefit of SSRIs, too, for some people. For some people. And for Ari, that was the benefit of him. He was really depressed. It was really bad. And I think it had something to do with taking DHT blockers.

So he was taking whatever the fuck that stuff is for your hair. What's that stuff called? Yeah, Propecia. Propecia. He was taking that. It can really fuck up your hormones. Yeah. Some people. And it wrecked him. It wrecked him. It got him very depressed. But the SSRIs helped him get over the hump and he eventually got off of them. And when his life is doing better, what a shock.

He feels better. He's happy. His career's doing great. He's fucking not depressed anymore. Oh, crazy. They're all related. People would try to tell you that your life sucking has no bearing on the level of depression that you have. Well, that's crazy. Yeah. That's crazy. Because there are people whose lives are seemingly on paper amazing and they're still depressed.

But I guarantee you they probably have their priorities off, and I guarantee you they probably don't exercise. And if they do, it's some rare imbalance that some people do have. I can tell you, I mean, running businesses, of course, everyone has stress and anxiety. If I didn't do an ice bath or go do Muay Thai, if I take a week off, my anxiety is terrible.

Yeah, I would have almost crippling anxiety but doing physical activity and doing hard things and doing the ice bath and doing the sauna and going through that method in that process I I mean it helps me immensely 100% you're used to a certain level of adversity And if you have no adversity adversity is very difficult to handle But if you give yourself voluntary adversity that far exceeds anything you're gonna experience outside of that

You're way better at handling stuff. If your workouts are so fucking brutal, and I've seen you do Muay Thai, it's fucking hard, man. It's hard. It's exhausting. And everything else seems easy. Because when you're on like round five, and it's a five-minute round, and you're three and a half minutes in...

And he's trying to get you to do switch kick over and over and over again. Your fucking heart is beating out of your chest. You got to finish the round strong. And when you're done, when that bell goes off, you're like, oh, my God. Like that feeling you don't get.

You don't get that in the day. And you feel so much better. After it's over. But the feeling of being exhausted, pushing yourself, that struggle is so much more intense than anything you experience other than a life or death confrontation in your day. Yeah, just even conquering going there.

Like there's so many days I'm driving and I go, why the fuck am I doing this? Why don't I just go to Starbucks, get one of those frappuccinos again, go back to my old ways. Life was fun being fat. It was easy. This is not, I don't want to go get the shit beat out of me and work my ass off for an hour. But every time you leave, even no matter what, I'm like, oh, thank God I did that. Every time I get out of that stupid ice bath, I feel like that.

Every time I go in, I don't want to do it. I know I'm going to go in it because there's two people in my head. There's the general and there's the pussy. And the pussy is like, don't do it. Don't make me do that for three minutes. Don't make me get in there. And the general's like, shut the fuck up, bitch. You know you're going to do it. So stop with all these thoughts. Just put the lid up. That one's one I still to this day, I do it.

I hate it every time. I still have not. There's never a day where I'm like, this is going to be easy. That's the good thing, though. That's your win. That's your win of the day that you did that. You need those little wins. Just like we're talking about with Ozempic. You need to get one on the board, you know, and get one on the board any way you can. Completing a workout, write it down, complete it. You got one on the board. You got a win for the day. That's real. It seems like it's not, but it's real. That's why the belt system works in martial arts, right? You get a blue belt. You're like, oh, I got a blue belt.

holy shit, I'm not a white belt anymore. I ought to get a purple belt. And it incentivizes you. Human beings are subject to that. You're nailing it. This is my point with the AI. I want to gamify it and I want healthcare to be fun. Yes. I want people to know that they're challenging their friends. We're rising together. Joe, you're a pussy. You only worked out 30 minutes today. Your DEXA's at this. My overall mortality risk is improving. Yours isn't. Like, how do we make it

fun and you can choose what to share kind of like what whoop does well what you do with uh with tim kennedy and the the what is that i watch his my zone and i watch what tim does every day and i'm like if i can just get close to what tim did i will feel great about myself so i try to beat

his workouts or Juan from On It Gym has his on there too and I'll just try and beat those guys workouts on those days. It's funny because people will say that that's an addictive thing which is really interesting because one of the things that people talk about with addictions that people are struggling with today one of them is fitness apps. Yeah. Like geez isn't that like the greatest addiction of all time? Like yeah you can go off the rails you can get a little crazy but isn't it the greatest addiction of all time? Well how many I think in with addicts they have them

One is finding religion and a higher calling and giving up to a higher power. But the other thing I've seen is

Candidly, a lot of times they trade addiction and they get really big into CrossFit or jiu-jitsu. But it's a healthy addiction. It is. It's a better alternative than drowning your sorrows in a bottle. Well, it's also the same pathways of the mind that lead you to negative addictions, lead you to positive addictions. It's just about channeling that kind of energy into something positive. I am 100% an addict.

But I figured out a way to be addicted to all things that are really good that I love. Yeah, that's that's the way to try to live your life It's just try to funnel that whatever that focus is that leads you to want to shoot heroin And this is also works the other way too and there was a guy that I know that was a world championship caliber pool player and

Wouldn't drink, wouldn't smoke, just drank water, super clean and healthy. And he was one of the top pool players in the world. And he was winning tournaments and gambling and winning a lot of money. And he was like rock solid. This guy was, he was, he would hold down the cash. You know, like if you bet on that guy, you had a really good chance of winning. He would win by, he would not choke ever. Yeah. He got in a car accident and he hurt his back.

And the same thing that got that guy addicted to pool got him addicted to pills. He couldn't stop taking pills, man. That weird pathway. And my friend Tommy put it this way. He's like the same thing that got him addicted. He called it the same thing that got him addicted to pool got him addicted to pills. It's like this obsession. So he found this thing that gave him relief from the pain and then he became obsessed with getting more of them. And then one day died.

You know, he died young. Yeah. And this was a guy you would never have predicted that. And that's what's so insidious about what the Sackler family did. That's what's so insidious about the opioid crisis is you can get good people. And everybody wants to say that wouldn't happen to me. I'm mentally strong. That's nonsense. I'm telling you this guy was as mentally strong as you get. Some people just get got. It gets them, especially if you're in pain.

Especially if you're one of those people that doesn't tolerate pain very well. Some people just, I don't know if they feel it different. I think they feel it different. I think it's the only thing. I think just like hot sauce tastes different to some folks. I think some people feel pain different.

And you know what? One of the reasons I thought this is my mom got an injection in her knee and she didn't even flinch. They stuck this giant ass needle in my mom's knee and plunged it in there and she didn't even flinch. And the doctor was like, that's crazy. This fucking 70 year old lady didn't flinch.

And I was like, that's where I get it. Yeah, it's a high pain threshold. It has to be. I think it's a genetic thing. I used to think that it was from being hurt all the time in martial arts. When I owned a toxicology – I was in the toxicology lab and the non-abusive stuff after my brother passed from opioids and I was trying to educate clinicians on that. One of the things I did was hire an expert, Dr. Bill Massey, and he came in and he sat on Obama's opioid abuse campaign committee and was –

He was helping guide me on what makes sense and how do we do this. But one of the things he shared with me that was wild was this study that he did for Obama with rhesus monkeys, where they gave one set of rhesus monkeys a

basically a cage with metal and no warmth, no interaction with other monkeys. They got water and food, but at erratic times, there was no consistency in that monkey's life. Then they took another subset of rhesus monkeys where they gave them warmth shelter, let them stay with their family for the right amount of time till they reached maturity. And what they found is when they introduced drug, heroin and cocaine to these monkeys, disproportionately the monkeys that were deprived died.

Right.

When you light up that dopamine, maybe it's a boxing match, right? You're a kid who's been poor and you get in that boxing match, you knock a guy out and you're hooked. This is it. This is the best I've felt. Everyone's cheering me on. For some people, unfortunately, what they find first is a drug or an alcohol or a substance. But that same person could be

The future Albert Einstein, the future Muhammad Ali, the future, you know, whatever it may be. Insert here. They have that ability. It's just can we give them a shot? Can we buy them the time and get them out of this? Because I've seen a lot of people beat drug addiction, but I've unfortunately lost a lot of people to it, too. They did it with rats, too. They did a very similar thing. They did a rat park. And so they had the rats in the cage and the rats, I think it was heroin that they used.

See if you can find what the rat park study was. Very similar type study. And they did another study where they had this enormous cage where the rats could run around. They had toys, things for them to do. And they didn't just do drugs until they died. They just went and had a party and lived like normal rats. Yeah. Which is...

Just like all mammals, all humans, we have these reward systems that are built into us. Heroin or cocaine-laced rats. Oh, here it is. Alexander's experience in the 70s had come to be called Rat Park. Researchers had already proved that when rats were placed in a cage all alone with no other community of rats and offered two water bottles, one filled with water, the other filled with heroin or cocaine, the rats would repetitively drink from the drug-laced bottles until they overdosed and died.

Whoops.

Fucking pop-ups. He put in rat parks where they were among others and free to roam and play, socialize, and to have sex. And they were given the same access to two types of drug-laced bottles. When inhabiting a rat park, they remarkably preferred the plain water. Even when they did imbibe from the drug-filled bottle, they did so intermittently, not obsessively, and never overdosed. A social community beat the power of drugs. And you've got to wonder if that would be the case with human beings.

You know, if everyone, I mean, it's not possible right now in the world that we live in, but if everyone had a productive, happy, healthy life and was raised in a positive environment, how much less drug abuse and drug addiction would we have? It's a good question. Because if it really is this horrible childhood that is causing a lot of people to seek these things out, but that's not my friend.

My friend who got addicted, he wasn't from abuse like that. It was like a normal family. Everything was fine. It was him dealing with pain, and back pain is some of the worst pain. It's fucking debilitating. I mean, I've known multiple friends who've had back surgeries. When they're in pain, it's just like it takes over everything. Like I've had knee surgery, and you can kind of deal with knee pain.

It's like, yeah, it sucks, but it's going to get better. It'll be okay. But it's not your whole system. It's just your knee. The back feels like your whole being is hurt. Yeah. It's a particular type of pain that people want relief from. My buddy's dad has been in and out of the hospital. He's in his 80s now. And he used to go on the elk hunts with us and everything. He was a coach. Yeah.

They had him loaded up on pain meds and everything was starting to fail. He had been in the hospital for months. They were about to move him to hospice. And my buddy said, we're done. I don't want any more pain meds. And he talked to his dad and he said, dad, can you survive without the pain meds? And he didn't think he could. And he battled like feeling terrible, everything. Long story short, he went from they were going to put him in hospice because his kidneys and organs and all this were failing to he drove a car last week.

Right. He's out of the hospital. He's in his 80s. He's driving his truck again. Like, I don't know if I want to be in the road with that guy. It's all those pain meds were poisoning his brain, his body. Of course, his organs were shutting down because they were just pushing more and more and more.

And I don't want to be too sinister, but there's a lot of money in keeping somebody in a hospital and billing that insurance company during those time frames and then moving them over. You know, I stood in surgeries where I watched them do neurosurgeries on people they knew were going to die, but they could bill them $800,000 and collect the insurance payment. And so the hospital is going to do the surgery. Oh, God, that's such a horrible thing to hear. Do a surgery on someone who you know is going to die just to make the money off of it.

It's just because our incentive systems are flawed, like what you were talking about earlier. If dopamine wins, like, reward systems, if we build a reward system based off money and numbers and finances, we shouldn't be shocked when we have killer earnings and really bad health outcomes. It's the same with everything in the human race.

Whenever it's incentivized by money, people don't go to what's best for people. They go to what's going to make them the most money.

And that's the weird world that we find ourselves in with people defending that because their ideology opposes the opposite. Yeah. It's nuts. It's a weird, weird, weird fucking time. But listen, brother, I'm glad I met you. I'm glad you're out there. I'm glad you can speak about these things the way you can with so much information. You're so knowledgeable about it and you can pull it up at any moment. And it's...

It's a daunting task that you have, but I think your message has changed a lot of people's lives. I really do. I think there's a lot of people that recognize that between you and all these other people in the space, Peter Atiyah and Andrew Huberman and all these people, Dr. Rhonda Patrick, all these people talking about health and what you can do to improve and studies and all these things that you can do to change the path that you're on. I think it's...

It's affected countless lives. It really has. Thank you for giving me a voice and thank you for having me on here. And also thank you to the U.S. Senate for being brave enough to let us sit there and hammer the U.S. government and critique them for their choices and power to them for at least having the honesty and integrity to let us have an open forum. Yes. Yeah, let's hope they keep doing it. And this Make America Healthy Again idea is one of the most promising political ideas I've heard in a long time.

because it's long overdue. There was a long time where they were denying that cigarettes caused cancer. They denied it as long as they could, and then eventually they couldn't deny it anymore. And I would hope that we would learn our lesson from all these other things they did, all these other things that they used to push, and now they realize they're dangerous, and they really regret that they did it, and people went along with it. Time has come. Time has come to change the way we approach food and health. I agree.

I agree. Thank you. Thank you for having me. Thank you, Trevor. My pleasure. Bye, everybody. Bye.