#2187 - Adam Sandler
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I was excited to see you. We know each other a long time, and I was excited to come to Austin, of course. We were just talking about how Zookeeper was 14 years ago. That's shocking. Like, how? How? I know. I hate that. Time just fucking flies by, man. It's terrible. It's terrible. That was a fun time, though. Oh, yeah. KJ was so excited. That was very fun. That was very fun.

I remember. You and KJ with Sussy. Yeah. That's how you guys... I've known Kevin for 30-something years. I've known him forever. It's funny because even your stand-up, I watched your stand-up the other night. You guys remind me of each other. There's something...

Something, you take your time on stage, you set it up, you say your shit, and you live in it. It's not the same, but you can tell you guys are buddies. There's something about it that everybody feels like, I would hang out with that guy.

That's cool. But did you and KJ start stand-up together? Well, we didn't start together exactly. I started in Boston. He started in New York. But I met him when I was like, I guess, two years in. About two years in. Where? Where did you guys meet? In New York. At the Strip or something? I think we met at Eastside.

Eastside. I don't think I did. That's downtown? No. Eastside Comedy Club was on Long Island. Oh, yeah. I used to go there. That was in Huntington. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That was a great club. That was Richie Manovini's place. That's right. That's Manovini. Now, that's a funny bastard. Yeah, he's a funny dude. I first, one of the first comedy clubs I watched, I think I saw Carol Leifer at the Eastside Comedy Club. My sister lived in Huntington.

And she said, do you want to go see? It wasn't my first, but it was like first couple. She said, do you want to see a comedian? There's a club around here. I said, yeah, yeah. And I sat in the back. I think I might have been like 15 or something, 16. And I saw Carol Leifer kill for like an hour, I think.

That was exciting. That club was rocking. Yeah, it's gone though, right? Are there good clubs in Long Island now? Like what's that? Oh, jeez, man. I don't know what's happening. There was always Governors. Governors was great. That always existed. Yes.

I remember there was a few bars that were comedy clubs that I used to do there. I just don't remember the names right now. But back in the day when I was young, I would go out to the island. Governors, I don't think I got on there much, maybe a couple times when I was young. That was kind of a rocking club. Oh, yeah. Steve-O. Do you remember Steve-O? No. I know Steve-O, the jackass guy. No, there was another guy, Steve-O, who was a funny guy.

comic and John Mulrooney you remember Mulrooney sure yeah I remember he was kind of huge out there he used to be a cop right I think so yeah I think so he was I remember Mulrooney was by far him and Kevin Meaney were the two guys you didn't want to go after I remember Mulrooney would just destroy a room he was so loose and would

dominate the room and then they bring you up and you're like oh goodness gracious i saw kevin meanie once at catch rising star in in cambridge and it was insanity it was when he was at his peak absolute peak i wasn't even thinking about doing comedy then i was just a comedy fan and i went with a friend of mine from high school i think we were both like 18 and we went and we saw a

him just fucking destroy for an hour to the point where I got out of there it was like I had an ab workout I was in pain yes yes yes I was like Jesus Christ yes I know he was so in the groove like everything he did was funny I man and I've never in my life killed as hard as Kevin Meaney I mean there's nobody you can kill I remember me and Rock would be on the side at Catch a Rising Star watching Meaney do whatever he did

And you were just like, yeah, I don't think I can get laughs that loud. It fucking blew out the room every time. He was on fire. He was on fire. But it was weird. It's like it didn't sustain. Like he later in his career, for whatever reason, it just the whatever he had for those few years, like in the 80s and the early 90s.

It didn't keep going for some strange reason. He kept doing stand-up, but something was missing. I don't know what it was. I know he killed on The Tonight Show with Carson. I'm sure he destroyed and did all. I don't know what he wanted. I don't know what the next thing he wanted. I just remember. Didn't he do a TV show, Uncle Buck? Yeah.

but that was not that good. You know, that was the John Candy movie that they turned into a television show. And I think, you know, there was always the thing that he was in the closet and then he came out of the closet and then it was kind of like right before he died. I'll tell you, I did, I, I did a Boston club comedy connection when I was 17. I ate it. I came off state. I mean, I bombed and my dad was there watching. It was a terrible feeling. And, uh,

And even the emcee, who I don't remember, when I came off stage after eating it, I'm walking. You know that awful feeling of walking through the crowd and they're looking at you like, Jesus, dude. And then the fucking emcee stopped me. He goes, Adam, Adam. And I turn around with your head spinning and shit. I look at the guy. He goes...

class clown? And I go, I nod my head like, yes. He goes, maybe stick with that place. Pah! Laughing. So I go, okay. You know, I fucking walked off. And then I went into the dressing room because I wanted to hide. And Meany, Meany, you're a funny kid. Bah, bah, bah. Said some nice shit to me. I always remembered, oh, that Kevin Meany fucking good dude, man. He was...

lifting me up. Yeah, some encouragement from a real comedian when you're just starting out can go a long way. Yeah, man. Because in the beginning it's so shaky. You don't know if it's going to work out. Like, what am I doing? Oh, you go home at night head spinning. What am I doing to myself? Why am I doing this? Yes, yes. It's fucking insane. It truly is the sickest feeling. And then there's the days or nights you go on stage and you're shit. You're not doing good. You're eating it, but you have a confidence that

And you're like, I'm pretty good at this, even though I'm fucking eating it. Right. I feel pretty good right now. You feel like this is, I'm going to figure this out. Right. Exactly. I'm going to figure it out. Yeah. Yeah.

Your movies kept my family sane through the beginning of the pandemic. We went on an Adam Sandler run where we watched basically every... The only one we didn't watch is Little Nicky. For whatever reason, we never got to that one because we watched other ones. I watched The Zoan. I might have just seen The Zoan 20 times. Wow. I fucking love that movie. Thank you. Such a funny movie. Why didn't you ever do a second one? That's fucking...

Always talked about it. I mean... Dude. It's a no-brainer. It would be a little tough sell now. Right now, right now. We'd have to wait a minute. Put that one on the shelf for a little bit. We had to put that one on the shelf a bunch of times when we were about to do it because shit would go on. We'd be like, maybe it's a tough time to do it right now. And then we just...

We got it. We did it. The intention was good to try to say, let's try to get some peace out there. And then another part of it is I'll never fucking be in that shape again. I don't think I could ever do that. You can hire a trainer. I know, but I can't stick with it, buddy. You are doing great. How the fuck are you eating so good and hitting it so hard? I'm like, you know, I used to fucking take working out so serious when I was in college.

maybe up to like 25, 26. And now I can't fucking do it. I play hoop, then I eat. And every time I'm eating, I'm going, what are you doing, man? You don't need to do this. I can't stop. Just got a little bit of thickness all over. Yeah, it's something that just...

you have to stay on the horse. You can't back off at all. Especially as you get older, you back off at all. You just start, what is this? You start feeling this thing. I know, I have a new... What is this? I know, buddy. You fucking walk in now and I go, Jesus, that'd be fun to look like that.

I always fucking wanted to be. I had no shit when I was 18 to 23. I hit it so hard. I never looked like you. I never was jacked. You looked good during the Zohan. Pretty good. Really good. Pretty fucking good for me. That was as good as I can get.

And I naturally had a little something going on when I was real, like the college years. But now it's fucking rough. My kids go, my daughter, one daughter, Sadie's always saying, Dad, get the train from the Zohan. Why would you ever give that up? Why did you stop? I was like, it's a lot of work. Yeah, but didn't you like the way you felt?

Yeah, yeah. Well, you should do that. Get that feeling back and stuff like that. But I just can't jump in there. Well, she sounds like a good coach. She's good. Yeah, she's a good motivator. Saying the right stuff. She's right. Everything she says, I have a thought where I don't promise her. I go, let me think about that. That's a good idea.

The whole thing is just not overdoing it in the beginning. Start slow where it's maintainable and then slowly build up. That's the key. So you give yourself new goals? Well, I never stop. But I mean when you get started.

Yeah. And the thing is, like, people try to go too hard. Like, oh, my God, I'm out of shape. I'm going to run fucking 10 miles and I'm going to lift weights. And then you're too tired. And then you're so fucking sore in the morning. Like, I can't keep this up. The whole key is just give your body enough where it's pushing it.

But it's not exhausted. You're not breaking your body down. You're just strengthening it slowly. You got to get sick the same way or you got to get better the same way you got sick. Right? You got sick over time. Yeah. Over time eating food and fucking up. And then you got to get better that way. Over time slowly start to morph your body back into a good condition. That's good. I like that. Everybody tries to go too hard. They try to go too crazy. You get excited. They do something unsustainable.

You get excited to get it going again. And then you get injured. You break yourself down. You hurt your knees. You hurt your back. It's like it's too much. Tear or something. Yeah. The key is just not do too much. Just do enough and just cut back on you. Say, I'm going to only have two cheat days a week. Two days a week, I'm going to eat whatever the fuck I want. Five days a week, I'm going to eat clean. And then break it down to six days a week, I'm going to eat clean. And one day a week, I'm going to fuck off. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

If you could go one day a week just fucking off, you can get a lot done. That's amazing. Yeah. The fuck off day is from start to finish. You can do whatever the hell you want. Do whatever the fuck you want. One day. And then the other days, the good days, what do you... Like, do you eat a breakfast and all that shit? Yeah. Sure. Yeah. Yeah. I skip breakfast lately. That's my new move the last year. Like intermittent fasting? I guess so, but I'm supposed to fucking lock in on eight hours or six hours, and I always...

Say I do one to nine, say. Then around fucking ten, I go, let me have some grapes. And then I go, I think I'm not supposed to have grapes. And then I go, I'll have a few grapes. And then it opens up to some other shit. Grapes aren't the problem. The grapes lead to some bad shit. The grapes lead to waffles. Fucking skinny cow. That's the new thing. Skinny cow ice cream sandwiches in the house started a little problem for me.

What are skinny cow? They're supposed to be a little better for you because the calories aren't awful. I think it's like 130. So I go, 130. Usually they're fucking like 330. So then I eat two of them. I go, it's still under that 330. Then I go, if I have a third, it's still in the threes. So I eat a third, and then I fucking go, I got to stop. If you really want to be serious about taking, just hire somebody. You got money.

I got the best guy, the guy who did me for the Zohan, and I love him. It's just I see him, and I love him so much that I go, let's keep this a friendship. I don't want to. I play so much basketball, though. That keeps me okay. It doesn't want me to take my – I don't want to take my shirt off, but I don't. How often do you play? Maybe –

four or five a week where I get out there and run. That's great. That's pretty good. That's very good. That's a key if you could do something that you really enjoy doing. Yes. Something that keeps you active that you enjoy. That makes it so much easier because you're playing a game. So you're getting fit, but you're in the middle of a game that you really like. You don't hate that at all. That is the best. I think that's the only thing I got.

You fight. That's fucking fun, right? Martial arts are fun. Yeah. Martial arts are fun. KJ always fought. I never even thought. One time, KJ, we left a hotel. I think he just came from...

fighting with one of the guys who were teaching him some shit. And he, uh, was so riled up from it. He put me in some fucking crazy hole out of nowhere. We were walking, we were going to dinner. All of a sudden he came at me. I was like, holy shit. And he fucking grabbed me, twisted me around, had me in some weird hole. I said, oh, okay. He's just letting me know he can destroy me. But, uh,

But I remember just going, yeah, that's fucking something I should get into, man. But I just can't. I'm not flexible at all. You're very flexible. Yeah. That helps. Well, I started stretching before I hit puberty. That's the big thing. Or during puberty, really. So it's like while your body's thickening, you're stretching. Keeping it loose. That makes a giant difference. I never...

By the way, KJ, being flexible is very odd. He can put the hands up. Yeah. He's fucking weirdly. He's a very athletic guy. Goodness. He just eats like a fucking army. He does get excited. I sometimes, when we were young, I'd say, tell me your McDonald's order, and he'd be like, I don't know.

Three quarter pounders. Three big macs. Whatever the fuck it was. He goes hard. His McDonald order is insane. Kevin go hard. But he also, when he was on the podcast, told me he fasted once for how many days did he fast for? Yes! 60-somethingers! Yeah, some insane amount of days. It was like 40 days or something crazy? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Mania. Something insane. And then I think he ate a...

A sandwich and it really hurt. I'm sure. You're so much more like, what the fuck is going on? Oh my God. He's a madman with that fasting. Yeah. Well, he's an intense dude. Yes. He's just intense with eating too. Yeah. Yeah. But if you ever watch him hit the mitts, if you ever watch him hit pads, he can fucking strike. Yes. I know. It's kind of shocking. It's kind of shocking.

Yes. The people that don't know him. Yes. You see him crack mitts and you're like, Jesus Christ. Holy shit. He is fucking legit. And he can roll around good too. Oh, yeah. When he was getting ready for Here Comes the Boom. Yeah. Like, you know, when he was training with Mark De La Grata. Yeah, yeah. God damn, dude. He was cracking those pads. I know. I know.

I know. He did let me know when that one thing he did to me. You know who did that to me too? Farley. Farley, we were in the hallway at Saturday Night Live out of nowhere. Oh no, we were at a fucking hotel. And he came at me real fast, grabbed me, put me in some shit, pulled hard. I felt every part of my body crack. And then Farley laughed. And just like with Kevin, they kind of looked at you like, I could fuck you up if I wanted to. Farley was a big dude too. He was a big boy. He was like...

Maybe 5'8". But he was like 5'8 wide too. He was wide. Yeah.

Fucking athlete, though. Moved nice. Well, when he moved around on stage, you know, when he moved around on SNL, he was fucking, that was part of the thing, was he was so explosive. Oh, yeah, man. Like, part of the funny in him was this fucking insane, but he had this explosion inside of him that could get out. I only met him once. You did meet him? Yeah, I met him on the set of News Radio, and he was in the middle, the throes of addiction. So he was gray like wet cardboard. Ah.

It was weird. It was weird being around him. He just looked sweaty. He's like, hey, how you doing? I was like, hey, what's up? Was he there to see Phil? He was there to see Andy Dick. Him and Andy Dick were hanging out, and I think they were both off the rails. They were having fun. They were having a good time. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Fucking, that sucks. I hate it. Well, he was, yeah, it's horrible. That was a good time of life, though, huh? That news radio shit? Oh, yeah. That was a lot of fun. It was insane.

Spade and Phil? No, Spade wasn't on that. Spade was on that other show, Just Shoot Me. He was on Just Shoot Me, but I thought he did a couple of things. He did. Yeah, he definitely did. But, you know...

A lot of people did, you know. Yeah, yeah. A lot of people did. Was that your first big thing to lock into? Yeah, that was the first big thing. I did a small sitcom that nobody watched before that called Hardball. Hardball, what was it about? It was a baseball show on Fox. Yeah, I think I remember that. It lasted like five or six episodes. What were you on that? I was a baseball player. Oh, you played baseball? I did in high school. Oh, yeah? A little bit until I started doing martial arts. Right, right, right. Then I gave up all sports. Gotcha. Gotcha. That's cool, man.

I want me to tell you my martial arts. It's not that big of a deal, but I grew up in Manchester, New Hampshire, and a lot of guys were tough, you know, fought and shit. Fights would happen. And then I had the idea. I drove by downtown. I saw this guy. I can't remember his name. Mick something. And I fucking saw kickboxing. I was like, let me take kickboxing just in case.

I can fuck somebody up because that'd be fun to have that secret weapon of kickboxing and, you know, all of a sudden be able to kick someone in the face. That'd be great. And so I talked my buddy into it. Or maybe he talked me into it. But I think... Anyways, we both go and...

fucking like 15 guys in there from school already doing it already advanced and I was like all this did was make me realize these guys can kick the shit out of me I thought guys I could take I was going oh fuck that guy can crush me too I had no idea but I would I'm never flexible so I just I think I quit after like four or five sessions flexibility is something that everybody can gain it's just you just have to go through the process

Flexibility is not something like, you know, there's like certain amount of explosiveness and athleticism that some people just don't possess. And it didn't take a long time to get there. But flexibility is something that you just have to work at. I've seen very inflexible people become flexible. Yeah? Yeah. What, just by doing it every day? Doing it every day and just sticking to a routine. You just got to force yourself past the pain. I'm just nervous my hamstrings are going to pop this whole fucking tight.

You know what you should get? You ever see one of those things where it's like a strap and you put your foot into it? Yes. And you pull back. Those things are great. Yeah, I know. I know. Just take a yoga class. Yeah, I know. I know. Go to hot yoga. That's a cheat code. No, that's a good one. It gets real hot in there. Yes. You get a lot looser. Yeah, that's good. That's good. My wife's good at that shit. My daughters do it. I just fucking...

It hurts my lower back and my hamstring so much that I end up just going, all right, I get up and do a fake water break and just stare at him. So how was working on this special? I saw you in Vegas. I saw you stand up in Vegas. I know you did. It was very funny, man. Thank you, man. Very funny. I really enjoyed it. I appreciate it, man. I had...

I had a great time making this special. I have a great time on the road. I can't believe it. You know, I fucking quit doing stand-up for, you know, like 20 years or something. What made you want to get back? I think I was doing Grown Ups and Rock and Spade and Schneider and KJ were always talking about, next weekend I'm going to Niagara Falls, and I'd be like, these guys are all fucking having fun on the road. And then I think Apatow...

was doing a Carnegie Hall. He was hosting something, and he said, you want to do some stand-up again? And I just go, yeah, yeah, let me do that. And I did it just to make sure that I fucking put together 15 minutes or something. That got me back into it. And did you just piece it together by doing small sets, or did you... How did you write it down? I was... I think maybe I did a couple of...

Improvs is something that maybe I went to the improv a couple times, but mostly from doing Letterman. I used to do Letterman and do two segments. So I'd fucking sit down with my buddies, write jokes, and just go out there with jokes and kind of trusted that, yeah, that's a good joke. And I think I started doing that with stand-up too. Just going, ah, this is pretty good. Let me just do it. And then when did you start booking gigs?

Same shit. I called the guy, this great guy whose daughter was going to school with mine. He would talk about booking acts and shit. I said, I was thinking of doing stand-up again. You want to book me some shows? And then he just booked like a...

10 city tour for me and I said alright I better fucking put an hour together for that. Wow. So how did you put the hour together? Did you go to the improv? Did you go to the store? Where'd you go? A couple times at the store improv. I would drive out of town you know the valley maybe an hour. Like the ha ha? That kind of shit. Yes. Anybody. Flappers. Exactly. Flappers. Flappers is a good spot to try shit out. Yeah. Yeah I just did a bunch of

Maybe I went down to the Comedy and Magic Club. Is that still around? Yes, I did. For sure. Hermosa Beach. That's a great club. Yes, exactly. Except I remember growing up, I would always see Leno and Joe –

Is it Joe? Is it Brogan? What was it? Jimmy Brogan? Jimmy Brogan. Yeah, the booker. Yeah, but he did stand up and they were so clean and they would fucking annihilate. And I always felt self-conscious in that place for how filthy I was. These people don't want to see this. Well, the Comedy Magic Club is like the cleanest club in the country. Right, right. Yeah. Yeah. Jimmy Miller used to book it. Did he? I think so. Okay. Yeah.

Yeah, Apatow used to always go there. Yeah, that's a great little club. That's a good club. So I forced myself to get a good album. Now I got... I mean, when I was on the road the last tour, I have so many...

I have so much shit that steps on other shit, so I can't really do it all. Right. Because if I already said this, so this joke doesn't make any sense now. But I was fucking doing two-hour shows, and it wasn't that big of a deal. Wow. Can you believe that? Yeah. Because I remember struggling to do an hour of my whole stand-up life. I'd be like, my God, how fucking, the crowd's so bored with me now. I can't come up with new moves, you know? But now, got enough shit.

Keep them rocking. So how long have you been steady doing stand-up again now? I think like seven years. Wow. Yeah, yeah. It must feel good though, right? It's nice, man. To get back into like a real flow, like a real headliner flow again. 100%, yes. And go, yeah, I missed this. I did miss it. I didn't even know I missed it. It's the most fun. Absolutely. You fucking were loose. That was, you set yourself up to do a live fucking special. Yeah.

I don't think I could handle that, man. My head would be spinning way too much, man. But you had to over-prepare. Yeah, yeah. But you didn't have any pauses. You were just boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. How long were you doing that set? Well, I did...

Well, you know, because I have my own club that helps a lot, right? So I was doing two shows a night, Tuesday, Wednesday, and Thursday. So I was doing six hours of stand-up a week, which is a lot. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then I was doing podcasts and all the other UFC stuff that I do. So a lot of work. That got to be too much. So then I knocked it down to three sets a week, three headliner sets a week. And then I would do a bunch of short sets.

You know, that bottom of the barrel show that I told you that my friend Brian Simpson hosts, that show's the best. It's like a premise factory because you have this whiskey barrel on stage. It's filled with notes from the crowd. It's all just different ridiculous ideas for premises. And you reach your hand in, you pull one out, and it's just, you know, frogs are gay. Like whatever it is. And you just start ranting. And you try to come up with bits. And you land on good shit. You get one or two...

Every set that you write it down, you're like, this could be something. That's amazing, yeah. And a couple of them made it onto the special. That's incredible. Because it's like, it's a premise factory. Absolutely. So I had a lot of, I was getting ready to do a special in, I was going to do one in August of 2020. But then, you know, obviously in March everything shut down and I didn't do stand-up for eight months. And it was just, and then I thought about it and I was like, you know what, I just feel...

like just working on my material now. I just feel like just working on stand-up and not even thinking about the special. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's a great feeling. I was just enjoying...

Working at the club, owning the club, and then there's so many good guys at the club. It was just such a fucking hot spot. There's so many people. There's Shane Gillis and Mark Norman and Ari Shafir and fucking Brian Simpson and Tony Hinchcliffe. It's just like every night was just murderer's row. And we were all just cooking together. That's big.

And then when Netflix said they want to do a live special with me, at first I was like, fuck that. I don't want to do that. And I said no. I told my manager. I was like, no. I called her on the phone. I was like, what? I don't want to do that. And then I was driving home like, why are you scared to do that, you fucking pussy? And I was like, as I was driving home, I was like...

thinking it and then I when I got home I called about girls don't say no yet like a little wow yeah yeah I've had those feelings yeah and then the next day I said all right I'm gonna do it and she's like you sure I go yeah yeah I'm gonna do it because I'm scared of it that's ballsy man I was fucking terrified of course I I I'm I'm scared thinking about doing it I would never fucking do it but but uh you killed it you killed it you were loose you were rolling you crushed well I didn't that set in order for three weeks straight right so

Right. So I had it locked in for three weeks. I didn't do any, no D which I always fuck around. There was no fucking around. Yeah.

No deviation for three weeks. You were steady. Exactly. I also wrote all the bits out by hand. I wrote them all out. Even the ones I already knew. I wrote them all out. I wrote all the transitions out. I listened to recordings. I watched videos. That's big, yeah. I beat myself into the ground. That's good. I overprepared. Right, right, right. So that when I got up there, there was no, what is next? What is next? There was no thought about- You didn't have a beat sheet somewhere just in case you got lost? No, no, no. That's fucking balls. I would never be able to do that.

But I wanted to cheat at like a regular show. If I had a regular show, I wouldn't have a cheat sheet. Well, I fucking... I never did when I was young, but now I need fucking a word. I need to look somewhere and see the word. What do you like? Put like index cards on the stage? No, on a monitor. I just look down and go... You know, it says like, you know, just one word. Popcorn. Popcorn and then I'm ready. Because my head goes to space. I get spacey as I got older. When I was young, I was prepared and boom, boom, boom, boom. Yeah. And I did my shit and... But I think...

It helps me kind of relax a little bit, just knowing that if I'm lost, I can look down and see a word and go, yeah, yeah, yeah, do that next. Bill Maher brings one of them conductor's fucking things on stage. You know, like they have where you put the news, the music rather? Yeah, yeah, yeah. He has that, and he just has his ideas written out on that. It's good. So you can just look down at it. I get addicted to that a little too much. Largo.

In L.A., I go up there. Flanny runs that place, and he lets me go on and try shit out. And I have a music stand, and I'll be at work all day working on movies. And then like 10 minutes left to go, I go, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. I got a couple guys in the office who help write jokes with me. And I go, let me try this, this, and this. And I just put the sheet down, go on stage.

Try shit out. Try new shit out. Nothing better than a new joke. Yeah, it's very exciting. That's the best if it's working. It usually does work, too. Well, you're enthusiastic about it, and if you really...

have thought about it and prepared for it, it's like a new thing for you. So it's an exciting new toy. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So you can't wait to get to that or open with it or whatever the fuck it is. When you do movies, do you just come up with a premise first? Like when you decide to do a film, like if you decide to do Happy Gilmore, how do you make your movies? How do you start? This episode is brought to you by ZipRecruiter. Pressure can be a good thing.

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I thought, oh, this could be great, a guy who, a grown-up who does elementary school again. And that's a great idea of being, I get to be goofy, get to bully these little kids, then all of a sudden connect with these kids and have fun growing up again. So, but part of my head was like, well, Rodney did back to school already, so everyone's going to say I just ripped off back to school, Rodney went back to college. How the fuck do we kind of do it a step away from that? And I called Rodney,

my buddy hurley who i went to college with and he writes all the movies with me or he's just a he's just a great funny man and i i've written almost everything with him and uh if he goes oh that's good then we usually go from there and we try to fill it out after that same thing with happy gilmore wedding singer bobby boucher all that shit we were just like came up with a couple of

of what we thought as an interesting idea and then see if we can fill it out. It's so funny because your films get loved by the public and hated by critics. It's so hilarious. Like, you are the lead. Like, the

Whatever the Rotten Tomatoes critic score is for your films means zero. It means nothing. It's only the audience is what counts. That's all we thought about, yeah. Because your films are all so fun and so silly and so, in my opinion, so underappreciated. Thank you, man. Because this is one of the things I thought about during COVID. We watched it every night. That's so cool. We watched every film that you made while everything was locked down. Amazing. Amazing.

I love that. Thank you. Thank you. Yeah, my fucking... Oh, man, we lucked out. We worked our asses off like you're working your ass off now. Like, this is... This is...

Took it very serious. But you caught like a silly groove. Yes, yes. And I don't think anybody else has that silly groove like you do. You caught that groove with so many movies, man. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, when I first started, Jim Carrey was crushing Stiller, Mike Myers. A lot of goofy movies were getting made. And I certainly fucking love doing them. I love being on set.

Making those kind of movies. I love fucking editing that shit. Thinking about kids laughing. I always loved that. Thinking of college kids throwing a tape in, sitting down, watching together. That was on our mind when we did it. When you first started out, did you want to be a comic? Did you want to be a stand-up comic? Or did you always think that you wanted to do films? I think I wanted to get into the movies. I was fucking nuts. Cocky as shit in my own weird way.

I think a big thing that happened to me was I told my friends in high school I was going to be fucking big. So you had to? I had to do it. I told the boys. I was like, I'm going to be fucking great. And then when I would check in with them, I remember being on pay phones, calling after even eating it at Catch a Rising Star. I'd call them up and fucking did good tonight, probably.

Yeah. I go, yeah. I said, what'd you say? I said, this Joe fucking killed. Meanwhile, I fucking ate it every time. So you're faking it until you made it. But I dug a hole for myself. I'm doing great. Robin Williams said I was fantastic. Robin Williams, I remember one night saw me eat it. I was just like, oh man, I ate it in front of Robin Williams. But I changed the story of like, yeah, he liked that shit. There's something that could be

very valuable about being delusional and being young. Yes. Very delusional. So stupid, man. I did this thing once. Do you know Owen Smith?

Who the hell is he? Hilarious. Hilarious comedian in LA. He had this... He's one of the best comics alive, but he spends a lot of time writing and doing shows, unfortunately. Which I think he should be headlining arenas. He was just at my club a few months back. Oh, yeah. He's a monster. The point is, Owen had this show that he was doing for a while.

where you'd find your oldest notebooks and sit down with them and go over your oldest jokes. And it was so bad. It was like a 1991 joke book. I keep them all. And we were reading it, and I was like, it's so bad. I had him built in heckler lines that I wrote that were terrible, and this guy was saying this to me. And it's like, oh.

That's so funny, man. If I had to go back there and give myself advice, I would say, you got to quit. You're terrible at this. Oh, my God. Don't do this. What are you doing, man? Yeah, don't do this. You sound atrocious. You're not going to make it. You don't have it. Same thing. There's no way. But I fucking thought I was fucking phenomenal. But I would look out at the crowd not laughing, going, these guys fucking nuts. They don't see how great this shit is. It's almost like I was with my fucking giant afro, and my father would be at the table, and he'd be like...

you need a haircut, I'd be like, what are you talking about, man? He'd be like, you think you look good? I'd be like, I look great. He'd be like, you don't, just so you know. You don't look great. I'd be like, you are so off on that, Dad. Yeah.

It's funny, delusional thinking can sometimes carry you to the... Once you develop some skill, delusional is like a little guardian. It keeps you protected while you actually develop talent. And that goes away, because I'm more nervous now. Well, I had that fucking fear as a...

My head would spin. Colin Quinn, he had a club, the Paper Moon. Was the Paper Moon around when you were growing up? It was like the Boston Comedy Club. Like a small place like that? I think that became... Paper Moon became the Boston Comedy Club. Oh, the same club? Yes, I think it was downstairs. Oh, no shit. So fucking Colin liked me. He used to get me on stage. I was going to college around there. And...

I all day long would be practicing on the elevator in my dorm. I'd be going, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, saying the shit. Right when con would bring me up, my fucking head would spin. I'd forget where I was, not making sense. I would say two jokes and then I'd be like, oh my God, I don't know what's coming next. And I had that going for a while, but I still would go home at night and go, fucking, I'm going to be so fucking good at this.

this. I don't know what it was. Psycho, psycho. It's youthful delusion. Yeah. And it's also your central lobe is not fully formed yet. You don't even understand the world. You're just a little meat puppet. My God. Yeah. But that's how you make it. That's how you make it in kind of everything. Like you're delusional. Yes. Yes. If you really believe in yourself, that counts for a lot up to a point.

Because there's people that still believe in themselves. They've been doing open mics for 20 years. Right. Nobody's stepped in to say, hey, this is never going to happen. Right, right, right. You have to have a spark. There's got to be a little something in there. And then you could build that little something into something special. That's right. That's right. Same thing in sports, guys, who keep going and keep trying out and keep doing something. But some people break through.

Yeah, it's interesting, man. I definitely had an amazing time as a youngster. I had a couple of people that I locked in with. We were buddies. We all had that same thing of like, I'm good. I'm good. Even though it wasn't that good yet. Yeah. Yeah, I came up with Greg Fitzsimmons. Greg and I, we're both like confused and wondering if we're ever going to make it and just –

You know, we do a lot of road gigs together. Yeah. And we were hoping. Yeah, man. But the whole idea was only just to, like, one day you'd be a professional. That was the goal. Not really have any kind of a career career. But just, like, one day to make a living telling jokes. That was the dream. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, you couldn't even imagine. Like, almost, I would see guys that were actual pros when I had a bunch of, like, day jobs doing construction. Oh, you did. Driving leases.

Oh, yeah, I did everything. Oh, gotcha. And so then I would do these nighttime gigs, and I'd meet the real pros, the guys who just made a living doing comedy. I'm like, what must that be like? Yes, they saunter in at 9 o'clock at night. Oh, my God. Yeah, they've been playing golf all day, laughing, the Kevin Knoxes and all those guys. Yeah, yeah. And I was just like, they were like heroes. Of course. You actually made it. Fucking made it.

Badasses, yeah. Outside of the system completely. All you do is tell jokes. And people love you and they come to see you. And the same jokes. A lot of the guys, they were just like, that's my act. I ain't fucking writing it. Oh, in Boston? Yeah. They never did television. So those guys had- Yeah, right, right. And people wanted to go see those same jokes again, which is crazy. Yes, yes, yes. Like Steve Sweeney?

Did you ever see Sweeney when he was in his prime? Absolute best, biggest destruction, too. Oh, my God. Steve Sweeney in his prime would light up a room and with Boston accent and Boston material. You couldn't follow him. No.

He was a monster. I think he went on the very first night I went on at Stitches. Sure. That was the first place my brother brought me to Stitches. He was going to BU. He got me one of those five-minute open mics. That was the first place I ever did, too. Stitches? Yeah. Wow, man. How'd you do?

Yeah, I ate it. I got a couple of chuckles. You did. It was like enough to where I was like, maybe. How old were you? 21. 21, yeah. Yeah. I was like, maybe. Right. Maybe something. And the second time, I got some laughs. That's incredible. Second time, I was like less nervous. Wow. And like I had listened to my, I had a little tape recorder that I brought with me. You did, yes. And I recorded it.

Oh, man. Yeah. How about that humiliation of the silence on the recorder? Oh, it was terrible. But it also made me realize what was wrong. Because I was studying it kind of the way I study martial arts. You would watch films of fights, and then I would go, oh, there was a little bit of a timing problem there, and I could have done this, I could have done that. And so with my second time I did stand-up, I had the...

the humiliation of listening to the first cassette. So I listened and I was like, let me tighten this up and maybe this could be a little better. Oh my God. Tightening it up. Right a little more there. But I got some laughs the second time, which was like crazy. I was like, wow, I might be able to do this. Shit, man. Both that stitches? Yeah. And then I think I bombed the third time and that was the first real bomb. And I was like, ooh. Punch in the face. Fucking shit. Yeah.

Yes. But every time I bombed, I feel like it taught me something. And then I would get better. Fucking, I ate it last year. Last summer. I went up to the comic strip.

And fucking ate it for ten straight minutes. I'm like, oh, shit, I forgot about that. I forgot about that punch in the face. That is a roughy. I ran into you at the airport, and you were telling me you just did some fucking horrific corporate event. I ate it there, too! Oh, that was... I mean, if I listened to the tape, I'd say, you were okay, but... Oh, it's humiliating. Yeah. Yeah.

You had just gotten done with it when I ran into you. I saw a shell shack. I remember seeing you and your wife. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I had that fucking glazed look. Those corporate gigs are so... Ron White just ate at one recently. He goes, I don't know why the fuck I agreed to do that. I know! I never did it! I said no, and they said more, and I said no, and then they came up with a number. I was like, all right, hold on.

Holy shit, buddy. Same fucking story for me. Those are death. I don't think I... Those things are death because the people that are there, they're working with all these people, so they're all kind of tight. Yeah, they got shit going on. Yeah. And they're not really thinking about the comedy show. They're thinking about this is like a social environment with all the people. They're working their way up the corporate ladder.

Yeah, yeah. They're concentrating on all their shit. And also, they can't laugh at anything inappropriate. Oh, that's true, yeah. I saw Mike over there laughing at all those sexist jokes. Mike's a real piece of shit. Yeah, that's true, man. That's good. I swear to God, I felt bad for them. I was like, Jesus, they paid me so much. I fucking feel terrible. I didn't kill for them, but it happened.

Yeah, Hinchcliffe just did one recently too. He said the same thing. I'm like, that's why I don't do those. Do comedy where people come to see comedy, and that's it. Don't get hired for a birthday party. Get the fuck out of here with that. The only fucking reason I did it was Paul McCartney did it the year before. So they go, well, they don't do this much. I went, well, fuck, I'm doing that shit. Yeah, but Paul McCartney can just play his songs. I know, man.

And his songs are great. They're classics. He's not going to miss. He's not going to miss. He's just going to play. And if they don't respond, that's on them. Yeah, it's like, you fucking nuts. You just did Band on the Run. What the fuck is wrong with you people? I know, man. That's good. Yeah. Musicians, they can always just get into their song. Oh, shock. They don't need your response. They can close their eyes. They don't need nothing. They don't need you. They don't look around. They don't need you. We're fucking looking out at everybody. That fucking dude's not loving it. God damn it.

We rely so much on other people's response. But the moments I don't, those are the ones I was saying to you, Joe, and I've eaten it before but still felt I did good.

because I fucking remained kind of confident and believing in my shit still. But the ones where I look out, I see them hating me, and I go, yeah, why am I here, man? That's a bad feeling. It's a terrible feeling. I say bombing on stage is like sucking a thousand dicks in front of your mother.

The problem is it's probably worse than that because somewhere out there, there's probably a guy who wouldn't mind sucking a thousand dicks in front of his mom. He'd be like, look at me, mom. Look at you, bitch. You made me. 99. Let's go. My mother would 100% at the end say, you could have done it better. Yeah. You could have sucked them.

Why did you stop on that one man? He wanted to explode in your face and you stopped. I feel bad. You should call him and tell him you'll suck his dick. But yeah, I'm with you, buddy.

Yeah. Stand up. Stand up's the best. It's a crazy thing and then no one can teach you how to do it either. You have to figure it out yourself because your way of doing it is different than my way of doing it. My way is different than Kevin's way. Yeah. Kevin's way is different than fucking Seinfeld's way. Everybody's got a different way of doing it. Absolutely. And nobody can teach you how to do it. You can learn some things. Yes. From watching other people. You can learn some things. Oh man. Yeah. But.

But how about when somebody fucking great watches you and says, hey, you know what you could say here and gives you a great line. You're like, oh, my God. Yes. No, that's huge. That would have feeling. You just made my OK thing into a fucking one. I'm excited to do. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. There's been a couple of bits that I've had that got a tag from a friend. It's just like pops.

it up oh you're like how did i ever do it without that fucking yeah sometimes like a fresh eye you know that's one of the things that i always admired about how chris rock used to do it because chris rock would go on stage he'd work his stuff out and then you have a bunch of guys that you would hire to sit in the back of the room and kind of workshop with them i got i do i do similar stuff very smart these young guys who are fucking way funnier at writing than me and i only because

I'm fucking tired. I'm tired. I walk into the office and I'm like, I thought of this funny thing last night. Maybe something there. I'll say it to them and they'll go, oh yeah. And then fucking write something interesting. And we come up with something together eventually. Well, you used to collaborating when you do films, right? Yes. Yes. I always do that. Always got a bunch of guys that, that helped me out throughout the whole movie. Yeah. That's such a good process. Yes. Because you know, one mind is great, but a bunch of minds together, it's,

In different perspectives. People are going to see things from an angle that you're not going to see. Yes, that's exciting. Same shit. Same shit. Somebody comes up with a great thing to do in a scene or a line or maybe you can be doing this at the same time. And actually, whatever the fuck it is. I mean, me and Herlihy, when we write these things, we think a lot.

what it's going to look like, what's going on in each scene, what the jokes are, that kind of shit. But on the day, you're definitely having a couple of buddies around and making it better is the way to go.

Well, you always have a very tight ship too, like doing Zookeeper with you and talking with Kevin. You work with the same people pretty much every film. Yeah. Which is really huge. Yeah, that's good. Because you have a very family environment. It's always family. Everybody's fun. Everybody likes working together. No one's an asshole. It's an easy gig in that sense. You know you're going to come to work with people. Yeah. Yeah.

Everybody's having fun. Kevin's got that going. You got that going. Yeah, you have to have that. That's gigantic. You got a lot of great stand-up friends, all right? Yeah. When you do The Road, you just bring your guys with you when you guys...

Like, how many of you go up on stage when you take gigs on the road? If I do a gig, I bring usually one guy who's a beginner and then two guys who are headliners. And how much time does everybody do? It depends. Like, when I did the live special, I brought this kid...

Ari Maddy, who's hilarious. Yeah. Ari did 10 minutes. Well, he did 15 minutes the first night, but on the live night, he did 10 minutes. So 10 minutes to warm the crowd up. And then he brings on Ron White. Ron White murdered for 15. And then he brings on Tony. Tony murders for 15. Wow. And then I go on after that. You're fucking tough to do that to yourself. Put on big, heavy hitters because that can...

get you in a hole sometimes too. Yeah, but as long as you're having fun, it doesn't because the audience is having a good time. Yes. My philosophy is I don't want bad comedians going in front of me. I want people to kill. Yes. So that when I go on stage, everyone's having a great time. Yes. They don't ever feel like, oh, they made out that one guy for 20 minutes. Oh my God, when was he going to get off stage? No, no, no. Because there's some comedians that like to do that. They like to bring in terrible acts so they look like a hero. No, that's bad. That's bad.

It's bad for the audience. It's bad for your own brain. You're getting lazy doing it. You're getting lazy. It's a soft way to approach it. So when I do shows at the club, sometimes I'm going on stage an hour and a half into the show.

And it's like Brian Simpson, Shane Gillis, Mark Norman. It's like killer after killer going up. And then I'm going up late. So you got it. It's like running with weights on. Like you got to come out of the gate hot. Dude, when I first came back to stand up, I was bringing all my buddies with me. And they were killing so hard.

it was good crowds so everybody would stay up you know everyone's like I know I was gonna do 15 let me do 25 and so by the time I got up there I was following like 6 or 7 guys murdering and it was fucking 2 hours in and then I was supposed to do an hour and a half of that I'd be like

Shit, I got to figure this out, man. I'm not kidding. That's too much. That's too much. You wear the audience out. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I feel like when a show gets over two hours, two and a half hours, it's like, I don't want to see a three-hour movie. No, no. If I'm going to watch a three-hour movie, I'm going to be at home, okay, where I can pause. Yeah. If I have to take a leak. Go eat. Go have some popcorn. Yeah, yeah, yeah. For three hours sitting in some auditorium somewhere watching a show. That's a lot. It's got to be a passion.

banger of a show where you're so engaged, where you walk out and you're like, wow. How about that feeling when you know, holy shit, this arena, I'm losing them for about five minutes. Let me fucking get them back. How about that? When you see people who started the show off with like, yeah, and then they're kind of like tuned out going,

What is happening right now? Yeah, people only have a certain amount of attention span. Yeah, yeah. You know, that's why I admire bands that still, like, I saw Guns N' Roses in Greece. Yeah. And they do three hours.

New shit? No, all the classics. All the classics. You know, Welcome to the Jungle, Sweet Child of Mine. Can't fuck with them. But they fucking go hard for three hours. Those guys are 100 years old. They're still killing it. And he's singing three hours. Axl's ripping it for three hours. Yes. Same with the Stones. I saw the Stones a couple years ago at CODA, the Circuit of the Americas here in town. Yeah, yeah.

And it was insane. Mick Jagger's a thousand years old. Yeah. And he's still fucking moving on. Button door lamp, baby. Yeah, yeah, man. He's still fucking dancing and all that energy. Yes. It's funny. They do like, Stones do two a week or something. Yeah. That's a really funny shit because when we go on the road, it's like five or six. .

That's the way to do it though when you're 80. Yes, yes, yes. You know, you need recovery. Yes, yes, yes. And also Mick Jagger works out every single day. He has two trailers filled with gym equipment. Wow, yeah, yeah, yeah. Two of the trailers when they travel with the Stones is just Mick Jagger's gym equipment. What a fucking stud, a light little body. That guy looks like he weighs 120 or something. He looks like 120. He's ripped still. 80 years old, got a six pack.

Got the mania arms ready. Yeah. Fucking ready to go. And still has his pipes. Still can sing. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.

And Keith Richard could still play. It was incredible. Watching them live, I couldn't even believe they were there. It was one of those things where I felt like I was on drugs. I was like, am I really seeing the Rolling Stones? Are they actually there? I could throw a rock and I could hit Mick Jagger with a rock. He's right there. Oh my goodness, I know. And then how exciting when Keith and Ron look at each other and laugh. They laugh together, fuck.

That was incredible. They're still enjoying it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And when we were kids, there were no old rock stars. Right. Yeah, yeah. That's right. Right? Yeah, yeah. They didn't... Elvis felt... He was already dead. Right, yeah, yeah. You know, he died in the 70s, right? So he was already dead. Wow, man.

And so when we were kids, we thought of rock stars as like Van Halen, young, wild people on stage jumping around. That's a young man's game. No one ever anticipated 80-year-old rock stars singing rock and roll in their 80s. No doubt. By the way, I heard David Lee on your show. Yeah, he's been on a couple times. Man, I

I mean, that band, to me, when I was in high school, I think I was in ninth grade the first time I fucking heard them. I was into Sabbath. My brother got me into Sabbath. And then I heard I was walking up to a fucking party. It was like one of my first house keg parties. And Van Halen was blaring over somebody's pioneer system. And it was fucking, like, ain't talking about love, but some shit. I remember just going...

This is the greatest shit I've ever heard. Oh, yeah. They were the kings in the 80s, dude. They were the kings. When I was in high school, everybody knew how to make that Van Halen logo on your notebook. Yeah, the notebook. It was either VH Queen, Zeppelin, ACDC. Yeah, yeah, yeah. They were the kings. They were the kings. Yeah. But we never thought they'd be still doing it.

No, that's right. And then you'd see Van Halen the last few years live and you'd fucking be still as excited. Yeah. You'd still look smooth as shit. I saw it with David Lee Roth maybe four or five years ago. He's such a character, man. Oh, yeah. He doesn't have a phone. He doesn't even keep money on him. I went to dinner with him and he has a lady that drops him off with me. She's like his handler.

And she says, I have her number. She has my number. She's like, call me if anything goes wrong. And you're hanging out with David Lee Roth, having dinner with him. I love him talking about fighting with you because you love him throwing those crazy roundhouse kicks. Oh, yeah. He was a real martial artist. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He used to train with Benny Urquidez. That's right, yeah. Yeah, he used to do those things on stage where he'd do like a jumping split kick in the middle of the air. Unbelievable. Yeah, look at him.

Yeah. He's a real athlete, man. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. He's a stud. Fucking sweet dick on him right there. But they... Look at that guy. Look at that picture where he's got his pants hanging down. Yeah, just enough to show a little hip phone. What is that? Showing some dick root.

He's a character, man. Still to this day, he's out to lunch, man. He'll say some interesting shit. He's smart, knows his shit. Whatever he's into, he's deep into it. That guy moved to Japan to train kendo, which is a sword fighting art. Right, right, right. Just him and his dog lived in an apartment in Japan for like years. Man. Just training kendo. I fucking... Anytime you heard that they weren't getting along, you were just like, they weren't.

Fucking animation. You know how that goes, though. Anytime you're with four fucking people too much, shit's going to go wrong. Yeah. Especially those egos and the bands and then girlfriends don't like that guy. Right, right. Yeah, that shit happens. It's like Valerie Bertinelli apparently didn't get along with David Lee Roth. Oh, okay. Yeah, yeah. That's going to be painful. Yeah.

That's how it goes. It's hard for bands to stick together, you know? I think that's way harder. I remember you two would always, in interviews, talk about how cool it is that they're still a rock band together. Yeah. The four of them loving each other.

If you can get a band that enjoys each other's company, that's a fucking tremendous, tremendous asset. Because so many bands, like I was just reading today that Pete Townsend doesn't talk to the rest of the guys in The Who. He doesn't talk to Roger Daltrey. They don't talk to each other. Wow.

Wow. Like, how? That's funny, man. I just saw them. I just saw The Who at a benefit, and they fucking destroyed it. It was Daltrey's benefit, and he brought The Who on there, and I think the drummer was maybe Ringo's kid, or it's either Ringo's kid or John Bonham's kid. Anyways, it was great. But Pete and Roger were funny as shit, ragging on each other and saying quick little insults and...

It was like massive laughs like a comedian. But then they'd fucking have those hits that just take your whole body over and it was great. Yeah, I don't know where they stand now or why they stand that way, but I was just reading an article this morning. Yeah. Oh, yeah? That they don't talk to each other. Makes sense. Like I remember hearing Sabbath on tour would fucking all show up in different planes.

I don't know if any of it's true, but you're like, fucking Tony Ione and Ozzy don't fucking hang out the whole time? Well, there's always a problem in a band where the lead singer becomes the number one guy. And everybody else is kind of secondary. Yeah, yeah, that's going to make you piss. The band's called Van Halen, but the main guy is David Lee Roth. Right, right, right. That's the guy everybody wants. Ain't talking about.

Man, badass. Yeah. Oh, my God. Hot for teacher. He was the man. And so, like, I could see how egos and feathers would get ruffled. And then the girlfriend on the side would be like, you know, the fan's name, Van Halen. It's not named B. Roth. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Definitely. Fuck that guy. Fuck that guy. And then you got to stand behind it. He's got all the groupies. Yeah, man. Well, but they had some, him and Eddie, both.

had the different people who would talk about who's the greatest. It'd be like David Lee Roth was just the smoothest and funniest and fucking... One of the greatest front men of all time. For sure. He was like a stand-up. Just dominated the crowd. Just like, I think there was some tape going around with...

Remember some shit just like, that's okay, man, because after the show, I'm going to fuck your girlfriend. I don't know. Maybe that was David Lee Roth or somebody else. But as a kid, you were like, oh, my God, fucking what? That was the coolest shit ever.

But then I remember Eddie Van Halen, when Jump came out, the video, and seeing him smile and throw down that fucking lead, and he was just like, is that the coolest fuck on the planet? With, like, overalls. Oh, yeah. No shirt overalls. I went with a fucking no shirt overalls move one time. Really? Didn't go over. On stage? Didn't get the respect. Not as a stand-up, but I thought I was going to get more respect. But I was on stage at a Battle of the Bands. I used to sing and...

play guitar in a band and i went my i think my mom tie-dyed my overalls and shit and i was like i'm gonna do it i'm going and i showed up and people making too much eye contact with me not wanting to look down at the fucking uh overalls it's a bold choice it was a it was one i couldn't make now one of the funniest choices is what what

If you look back at the metal days, you look back at all the guys who dressed up like gay bikers. Right, right, right.

From Judas Priest. Judas Priest, yeah. Which Rob Halford tricked everybody into dressing like a gay biker. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because he was gay. I loved it, yes. So he's like leather pants and the fucking leather biker helmet on and a vest with no shirt on underneath. Yes. And all these guys started dressing like that. Yes, yes, yes. And they didn't even understand that they had been tricked into dressing like a gay biker. Yeah, yeah, I love that, man. That's a great one. He was so cool. I saw them at fucking Radio City with Iron Maiden. Really? That was a biggie. Wow.

I was up in the balcony screaming, screaming, I want to dress like you. No, it was good. Yeah, look at him, man. Yeah, yeah. I mean, come on, dude. Fucking the hellion. They were nasty. They were nasty. That's the tough looking guy. You got another thing coming. Look at him there with his fucking crazy outfit. It's just so funny, all the different styles of bands that existed. Oh, man, I had fucking pleather pants on.

I wore fake leather pants for a bit. I didn't know my body wasn't great. So I was like, you throw that shit on, you look like a rock star. Then I'd fucking see the pictures that my mom took of me after. I'd look back and be like, how the fuck did you let me out wearing that shit? It never fit just right. I never had the body for it. Like, I would walk into a clothing store growing up. There was a place. You know Sarah Silverman?

The comedian? Sure, yeah, I know Sarah. She grew up in the same town as me, and her parents had a store called Junior Deb, I believe. And it was downtown. They sold Levi jeans and all this shit. And I remember just going, okay, I'm going to get some cool-ass Levi's, go to school, look like a badass. And I remember when I saw a three-way mirror, I was like, these aren't fitting me like I thought. I don't look as cool in my Levi's as I thought I was.

You had an idea of your image. I saw other people wearing that shit going, all right, I'm going to dress like that guy, but it didn't reflect the same when I had it on. Again, youthful delusion. Delusion, yeah. Did you want to be in a band before you wanted to be a comic? Mm-hmm. I wanted that for sure. What kind of music did you guys sing? We did a lot of Aerosmith, a lot of Van Halen, a lot of Sabbath, Zeppelin, and...

Aerosmith just canceled their tour. I know, I know. I guess Steven Tyler, you know, he had that neck injury where he fell and broke one of the bones in his neck. Yeah, yeah. And apparently he just can't sing. He can't open his mouth to sing. Well, they were planning on doing a thing with the Black Crows. Oh, wow. Yeah. Yeah.

And they just, for whatever reason, you know, decided to put the tour out and get going. And then he started and he was like, I can't do it anymore. I'm done. That is painful, man. Yeah. Because the guy's whole life was that. And by the way, fucking, did you like Aerosmith growing up? Loved them. They were the bad boys that every tune was nasty. Oh, yeah. That shit was the nastiest. Push that microphone up to your face. Sorry, bro. No worries. And, yeah, I loved...

My band played literally like 10 Aerosmith tunes. We'd always fucking play kind of cool ones. Not the massive hits, but the whatever, the Mama Kins and the Walking the Dog and kind of cool shit like that. Well, we both grew up in New England, and they were the kings. They were the kings of New England. They were the kings. Yes, yes. They were the fucking band. W-A-A-F. Look at that. Yeah, A-A-F. Fuck yeah. Joe Perry, yeah. BCN. Yeah, BCN, A-A-F.

What was the kind of alternative? He was the fucking man. Could hit every fucking... How about the fact that I read something that... Yeah, he's a cool bastard. And I met him, and they're all great guys. Joe Perry, he's a great guy, too. Fucking best. That's a New England accent, too, on Joe Perry. Oh, yeah. It's funny to hear the boys talk. I think somebody lived in New Hampshire. Maybe Steven Tyler lived in New Hampshire, because that's where I grew up, and they definitely owned New Hampshire. Sure.

Well, they were the kings of Boston. They were fucking gigantic. I remember the controversy when they did that duet. They did that song with Run DMC when they did Walk This Way. What the fuck? I know. Everybody was like, what's going on? That don't make no sense. I know. Meanwhile, that's a fucking great song.

Great song. I was listening to it now. Fucking Aerosmith came back. Yeah. They became the Kings again. Exactly. That was their big comeback song. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because they're kind of faded for a while. Yeah. And then Walk This Way came along. That was great. And it's like young people started getting into them again. Absolutely, yeah. It's funny how bands, like, they get, you know, like generational. Yeah.

right even though they're great like ah that's the people that listened in the 70s fuck those people you know now we listen to this yeah yeah yeah and then all it takes is one thing and then people start going through the catalog and like jesus christ these guys are incredible same i was doing uh fuck who the fuck was i listen i play a lot of the old shit for my kids

And then all of a sudden you just go, wow, they had so many bangers. Bangers, yeah. Yeah, especially the young drug-taking days. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The wild Aerosmith days. The first three albums kind of shit. Like Zeppelin too, yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's a different world. Yeah. Every comic wants to be a rock star, and I think most rock stars want to be comics.

Yeah, there's some of that, too. There's something about the freedom of comedy that they appreciate. Yes. You don't have a band. You don't need anybody. All you need is a microphone. You don't have sound guys. You don't have anybody. Can you believe that? Yeah. That's my biggest mistake is I fucking use music in my act, so I gotta... My piano player, Dan Bulla, he's the best. I love having...

Him being together on the road, looking back, and we laughed together. That's the greatest part. But back in the day when I just had a mic and didn't have to show up with shit, that really makes it like easy. Oh, it's amazing. Yeah. You know, when I would do these big places like the TD Garden, like one of the things that would strike me is like we're just showing up.

There's no trucks. There's no van. It's just a stage. Right. And me and three of my buddies, and that's it. Yeah, yeah. And 16,000 people. But bands play here, and they have fucking trucks and shit. I know. All these people have to break down the stage. They're there. All the fucking pyrotechnics and all the crazy shit these guys have. Right, right. I know. I know. We're cool. We're cool. We did good. We chose the right career.

For us. For us. Yeah. Until you watch a rock band, you go, eh, they're kicking our ass, man. It's definitely something different. I mean, rock is kind of like a drug. There's something about going to see a band that's really good. It's like...

The music hits your body. Yeah, it overwhelms you. Yeah, like a drug. Yeah, yeah, yeah. For sure. The right tune fucks you up. So I agree. Who were some of your first concerts as a kid in Boston? First concert I saw was Jay Guile's band. You did? Yeah. With Peter Wolfe and fucking... That's as cool as it gets.

Yeah, back in the centerfold days. Aerosmith and Jay Giles can battle for the Kings of Boston back then. Jay Giles was the fucking man when I was in high school. Yeah. See him. I saw George Thorogood. There you go. Johnny Winter. Yeah, I saw a bunch of bands. Where did you see him in? I don't remember. I wish I could remember. But then I got a job. Worcester. Sure. Worcester Coliseum. Centrum, yeah. Yeah. Is that what it was? The Centrum? Yeah, I think so. Yeah.

Then I got a job when I was 19. I worked at Great Woods. You did? Yeah. Fuck, and I played there. What a feeling that was. Yeah. Because we saw so many shows growing up. I saw a lot of comics there too. I saw some comics there when I got paid, and then some comics there I paid to see them.

Right. Like I saw Kennison there. I paid to see Kennison. You did? That's cool, man. Yeah. I saw Cosby there. I saw Rodney there when I was working. There you go. Rodney was backstage naked with a bathrobe on. Yeah, yeah. That's a big Rodney. That was the Rodney days, the bathrobe days. Okay, baby. Yeah. He would go on stage with a bathrobe just to make him feel comfortable. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He just was completely naked with a bathrobe on. Just...

Murdering. Oh, the best. The best. I mean, murder. And this was before I'd even thought about doing stand-up. I was 19. Fuck, man. But I got to see... You saw Kennison. Kennison always dressed badass. Yes. Like a rock star. Yeah. He fucking had the big long leather coat on and a beret. Yeah. That was just after I'd heard about Kennison, too. Yeah. I had heard about Kennison from a girl that I was working with. I was working at... Besides doing security guard work...

I was working at the Boston Athletic Club in South Boston. Wow, yeah. So I was a trainer there. That's still there, right? Yeah, I think so. I think they got a fucking basketball court there. Yeah, they got basketball. There was a lot of racquetball there. I met Bobby Orr there. You did? That's cool. I had to help Bobby Orr because Bobby Orr had had like –

fucking 150 knee surgeries, right? His knees were destroyed and you'd have to help him get on the VersaClimber machine. Oh my goodness. Because Bobby's knees didn't bend. Right, right. Bobby's knees bended like this much. Right, yeah. He had like 12 inches of movement in his knees. And so you'd have to like kind of help him get on the VersaClimber machine. Wow. I mean, one of the greatest athletes of all time. You watch him play racquetball and he would just kind of fall over. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because just, you know, back then. They put it all out there. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Also, the knee surgeries back then were archaic.

Right. They were so primitive. Wow, man. They just used staples and fucking screws. Oh, man. They didn't know what they were doing. At a certain age, you see different scars on guys. Oh, his knees. That's Bobby's knees. Oh. Yeah. His knees were destroyed. That sucks, man. Man, what a hero. What a stud. Always loved him. He had 20 knee surgeries. Fucking insane. Was that your team, the Bruins?

I didn't really watch sports. Oh, yeah? You didn't? No. Once I got into martial arts, I really didn't care about any sports. That's pretty cool, man, that you didn't because I know that's the biggest sport town. Oh, it was a huge sport town. Everybody called me a pussy because I didn't know anything about football, basketball, baseball. I didn't care. That's pretty good that you had your own thought process going. I would join right in with trying to make the other kids like me, dropping something.

Well, when I was 15, I just became obsessed with martial arts. That's great. I didn't care about anything else. I literally didn't care about anything else. I'd watch basketball. I'd be like, this is nonsense. Who cares if that ball goes in that hole? Fucking cool, man. That doesn't mean anything to me. My dad always told me to do that shit. He'd be like, do martial arts, do martial arts. And like I said, I went to this guy. I wish I knew his name.

And I did that, and then I think a little earlier in life I tried it out. But my body, man, I wasn't meant for it. It's not for everybody. No, it's good, though. But that's like everything in life. There's things that are not for you. You just got to find the thing that is for you. Yeah, I found a few, and that's all I do. Hoop, comedy, that's it. Perfect.

Perfect. That's all you need for a happy life. Yeah, I guess so. So this girl I used to work with, she was like a volleyball player and she was really hilarious. And she was working at the front desk and she was like, oh my God, I saw this guy. This was 1986. This was when Kinison had his HBO special. Uh-huh. And she told me about it. She's like, there's this guy and his name is Sam Kinison. And she, you know that bit he did about homosexual necrophiliacs paying money to spend a few hours undisturbed with the freshest male corpses? Remember that bit? I, I.

So she told me about this bit. We're hanging out in the parking lot of the Boston Athletic Club. And this girl is lying down on her stomach on the ground. And she's like, oh, oh, life keeps fucking me ass even after you're dead. No.

And I was laughing so hard. Wow, yeah. And I remember like this girl, just her doing Kinnison's bit made me go to the video store to get a VHS of Kinnison's special. Because the first time I saw it, it came out on video. And then I watched it. I was like, oh my God. And that was like the first seed in my head where I was like, okay, this is comedy too?

I didn't know that was comedy. I thought comedy was like something I really liked but it was so different than me Yeah, it was nothing that I would ever do right? It was just different It was like I didn't see myself that way, but I saw that guy. I'm like that guy's a fucking animal Yeah, yeah, this is shit. Yeah This is a different kind of comedy and that was like the first seeds in my head that I had of doing comedy Yeah, that's amazing. And then I got to see him live at

At Great Woods. But I saw Bon Jovi there. I saw... Fuck, I saw everybody. I quit the night Neil Young was there and they had a riot.

Really? Yeah. In New England, huh? Well, the lawn, you know how Mansfield, Great Woods has that lawn out there? Well, it was cold out and people were starting fires on the lawn. And so they were like starting these little bonfires and we had to break up the fires. And then brawl started breaking out. And I always knew that

This job was like, you know, what do you get paid like 20 bucks an hour? I'm not going to fight somebody for 20 bucks an hour. This is crazy. So I always carried a hoodie with me. And so I had my security shirt. And then as soon as shit would go south, I put the hoodie on like, I'm out of here. And that's what I did. That night I quit. Oh, yeah. I quit the night. That's funny, man. Yeah.

Fuck, yeah. 20 bucks to get in a full-on brawl. Yeah, there was brawls breaking out left and right. The first night I was there, I watched one of the security guys beat this guy with a walkie-talkie. And I was like, Jesus, what did I sign up for? It was a crazy job. Because some guy had stole one of the golf carts, and there was this dude named Alley Cat who was the head of security there. And Alley Cat tackled this guy, and he's beating him in the head with a walkie-talkie. Wow.

Oh, man. And I was like, whoa. Okay. What did I sign up for? Did you get in fights after you learned your shit? No. No? That's cool. No. No. I avoided them all. That's amazing. I'm not interested in fighting. I would like fights where they were planned.

Like meeting a guy in football? No, like tournaments and stuff. Kickboxing matches. I do a lot of those. But those to me made sense. Like fighting on the street, it's like, no. People have guns. People have knives. This is fucking stupid. I was always nervous. I never felt like...

You get in a fight with someone and someone hits you in the back of the head with a bat. Also, if you fight someone, that's never the end. Like, they're going to go get their cousins. They're going to get their brother. They're going to try to find you when you're alone. That's true. You don't want that kind of problem in your life. Just move on. Oh, it's so easy to just take whatever they're throwing at you with, like,

that's supposed to start the fight just being going, yeah, okay, that makes sense. You're right. I am a piece of shit. I'm going to get out of here now. Well, it all means nothing. Someone says it only means something to you if you believe them. Yes. Someone says you're a pussy. You're like, okay.

What does that mean? This doesn't mean anything. You're just saying words. Until you try to hit me, this is nonsense. It's like, oh, you have a bad opinion of me? Oh, that's okay. I don't really care. And also, I was tired all the time because I was training like six, seven days a week. So I was like, I don't want to be involved in this stupid shit. Right, yeah. I already worked out today. I can't fight you. Also, I was very aware of the consequences of violence. By the time I was...

21 years old, I'd probably seen 40 or 50 people get knocked unconscious. Right. At least. What a terrible sight that is. Probably a lot more than that. I've seen so many people snore. You know, it's just on the ground twitching and snoring. That's terrible. I've seen so much of that. Yeah, yeah. I grew up with that. So it's like, to me, I was like, I don't want none of that in my life. I don't want to have anything to do with this. Especially outside of fighting. Yeah. Concrete floors and shit. Head hitting the ground. Oh. Yeah.

KJ worked with a guy in Long Island when KJ was a bouncer. Right. And this guy killed a guy. He punched a guy. The guy fell, hit his head and died. Yeah. Now the guy has to go to jail. Now you're working as a bouncer just like I was working as a security guard in Great Woods. Like you could have gotten in a fight, hit someone. Now you're in jail. Yeah. And you're like, for what? Holy shit, man. Yeah.

That's so cool you worked at Greatwood. So that's like the, what a destination to go to and see so many great fucking bands. You know, it's funny. You said Kinison. I used to be on MTV when I was young and we'd go to Daytona Beach. You were on remote control, right? I was on remote control. That's right. Quinn. Quinn got me on there. And it was the best. But we went to spring break, Daytona Beach, and Kinison was at the height.

And I went to, it was the first guy I saw at an arena, Kenniston and some other bad boys. Some guys, I forget their names. Probably Carla Bow. Yeah, yeah, Carla Bow, right? And a couple other guys. All kind of really funny, tough bastards. The outlaws of comedy. That's it. That's what it was. And I saw Kenniston destroy everything.

And it was like I saw Rodney at a theater in Florida where it felt like fucking holy shit, this is a rock show because it was bam, bam, bam. Yeah. Oh, Rodney. Rapid fire like a machine gun. The best Rodney would crush for like eight minutes and then go, I know a lot of fucking jokes, baby. And they go, ah. You know? That was so cool, man. But Kennison, too, just took over. I saw him in the moment. It was amazing. Yeah.

Yeah, I got to see Kinison decline, too. I got to see the decline because I saw him a couple of times live. And the last time I saw him live, it was in New Hampshire. And there was not that many people there. I drove to this theater with this girl that I was dating. I was probably 20 at the time. Again, it was before I did comedy. And he was just, it was already like...

Boozing heavy. Yeah. And it wasn't as good. Right. Because he peaked in 86. I feel like the Kinnison from 86 is probably one of the greatest comedians that ever lived, if not the best. He was a monster. He was a monster. Yeah. But...

But the guy was doing blow and drinking and hanging out with rock stars and just partying. And his brother wrote about it. Did you ever read his brother's book? Uh-uh. Brother Sam? Right, right. I heard about it. It's a great book. Yeah. It's a great book. If you're a fan of stand-up, I tell anybody, go buy that book because it's a great book. And Bill...

Bill said that you could see the drop off in Sam's material because he just stopped writing. He wasn't hungry anymore. He had made it. Because there's this hunger inside of him to make it as a comedian. And that's what led him to be outrageous and do all those jokes about the starving kids in Africa and all these different jokes he did that were just so outrageous and that preacher's voice and that fucking powerful delivery. But then when he made it, man...

He got real fat and just drinking every night. Yeah, he was slower. He started wearing the bandana days, the rock star days. Sure, sure. It just dropped off. It wasn't the same. It was like a caricature of Kinnison. That's funny. It just happens. It happens when you're drinking or doing whatever the fuck it was. Coke, water.

Yeah, sure. I think that's the one that really like... Oh, that makes you not think straight. You're definitely all over the place. You fucking... You can't stay steady with a thought. Yeah. But I remember I met him a couple times. Paulie, sure, was very tight with him. Yeah. And I knew Paulie and I hung out with Kinnison a couple times. But I saw him at the improv. The last time I saw him and he had... He was a little...

He was so sweet. Like, he was so nice to me. And he remembered that we hung a little bit. You know, I was a young fucking dummy. And he was nice to me. And he had that kind of glazed, had a few too many in the eyes. But he was just, he definitely was, when he walked into the fucking improv that night, every comedian was like, well, holy shit, there he is. The fucking man. Right. You know, it was cool. He changed comedy.

He really did. Because there was no comedy like that before Kennison came around. He was a different kind of comedy. It was like all of a sudden comedy was like you could yell. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, my God. That was the biggest. He was just a force. He was just like, and the preacher's voice, that thing that he had, where he had that charisma of being this tent revival preacher. Yes, yes. And when he would talk quiet. Yeah.

Oh, well. And then all of a sudden blasted shit out. Yeah. Oh, my God. And he was a legend at the store. You know, when I got to the... The store goes through these eras, right? And when I got to the store, it was 94. And the Kinison era had ended. He died. Right.

And then there was this big drop-off. Like, the store was kind of vacant when I got there in 94. It was weird. Like, the shows would be half empty. Yeah, yeah. They were having problems for a bit. But they all had these stories. All the guys, like Harris, Pete, and the guys that were still around, they'd all have these stories about when Kennison was there. He would perform at midnight. And around 1130, all these rock stars would start showing up and movie stars. Right, yeah. And they would all go there to see Kennison. So he had the midnight spot.

Fucking cool. And they would all go. And I remember thinking, imagine people coming to the comedy store just to see you. That must be so insane. That's fucking cool as fuck. Oh, it was the coolest because it was all just word of mouth. Yeah, man. Everybody, this is like 84-ish. Before he popped, everybody just knew about him. Rock, rock. I remember Chris was in Vegas and I went to see him with Nicholson.

And Jim Brooks. Wow. And we were sitting there and fucking Nicholson was laughing his ass off. And I had that thought you just had. I was just going, fucking Rock is so cool. Right. That people fucking fly an hour. Like, where is he? Let me go see him. They sit back and laugh. And I fucking just going, shit, Rock, you really are fucking stud, man.

Oh, yeah. The Bring the Pain days. Bigger and Blacker and Bring the Pain. Two of the greatest specials of all time. Unbelievable. Flawless. Flawless. Yeah, yeah. He's a badass. I talked to Rock yesterday just for like 10 minutes or something and we got really excited about stand-up again. I go, you're right. And he goes, I kind of am. Like he can't stop. When he was doing his tour, he was like, I need a break. Blah, blah, blah. He just did like a fucking year on the road or some shit. And then he's right back to like,

Got some ideas. Yeah, I think that's a good way to do it. Take a little break and just refresh your mind so you're not running stale. Of course. Because he did a live special too. His live special was fuck, I loved it. Yeah, and it was also like the buildup because of getting slapped by Will Smith and all that crazy shit. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I think that was, like, the best thing that ever happened to him. Because then he became, like, wild again. Like, his stand-up was, like, outrageous. It was like the rock of old. That night was like watching a fucking Super Bowl. You were just like, what? It's a live event? Holy fuck, what the fuck, man? He was a badass, and I think he had some white shit on, and he looked cool as fuck, and...

And you were waiting for him to talk about it. And he got to it and he got fucking excited. Well, he didn't talk about it for a while on stage. Like he would tell people, if you think I'm going to talk about it, I'm not. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He wanted to be ready and he wanted to really think about what he was going to say and how to say it. That's because of where we are in life where anything you say is fucking on the internet the next day. So he's like, I got to be careful and not blow this shit up.

Also, they would ruin the bits. Yeah. Because people would just tell the bits. Yes. And it wasn't even ready yet. Yeah, exactly. Because if you have a life-changing event like getting slapped at the Oscars in this most preposterous scenario. Yeah. The whole thing was preposterous. Yeah. I think for him it was also a wake-up call like, hey, these motherfuckers don't really care about me. Yeah.

In that moment, yeah. Yeah, they didn't protect me. Nobody stopped it He went back and sat down and then he got an award afterwards. He got a standing ovation. What the fuck is going on here? It was fucking weird. Yeah, because you want you always want to be that guy who's hosting the Oscars and who's starring in the big movies and that's what everybody wanted. Everybody wanted to be the big movie star, but then you realize like well these people are fuckers.

What did you do? How did you set this up? How come nobody tackled him? That was a fucking weird moment. The weirdest. It was like a guy just showing his ass. You just pulled your pants down and showed the world your ass. Why did you do that? He probably wakes up in the middle of the night.

Going, why did I do that? The whole thing was socks. Oh, beyond. It was almost like a guy who doesn't know how normal people act, thinking this is what you're supposed to do, go smack that guy. It became fucking just went to a place that he couldn't get out of. Yeah. And started it. And still there. He's still there. In everybody's mind, when you see Will Smith, oh, he slapped Chris Rock. That's like...

Not I Am Legend, not Muhammad Ali, not insanely good movies. Yeah. The guy's an incredible actor. Absolutely, yes. He's been in so many banger movies. He's a fucking blockbuster movie star. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And people see him, they go, oh, he slapped Chris Rock. Fuck that guy. Fucking sucks. God damn it. Terrible. Man, it sucks, man. It fucking, yeah, it follows you around. It sucks. But my man, Rock...

And the Kinnison's like in the that shit when you when you spread it that happens like once every fucking eight years or something where somebody becomes this shit Yeah, every now and then someone pops through and it elevates all of us. Yeah, everybody that gets to see it They go. Oh my god. I want to be better. I want to write more. Yeah When I used to see Chris at the store, yeah, whatever Chris would come in and you do a set I'd watch and I'd be like, oh my god I remember one time I was fucking in the back of the room and this comic and

stood in front while I was watching Chris. He's like, dude, I gotta get on your podcast. I'm like, you gotta get the fuck away from me. I'm watching Chris Rock. Why are you watching Chris Rock? He's one of the greats and he's on stage right now and you're talking to me. Holy shit. Get the fuck out of here. That's so funny, man. That guy's never been on my podcast to this day. I'm like, get out of here. You ruined the moment. Get the fuck out of here. Dude, he, Rock is...

Never wasted a fucking minute on stage. Always trying shit out. Always either notebook or just trying to remember or whatever. Never fucking got...

Tense with the crowd. Just like, they're not liking this, but I'm liking it, so I'm going to keep going. Well, he would do this thing where he would go on stage and he would just have raw premises. And he was so comfortable with total silence. Yes, yes, yes. Where it wasn't going well, and then he would catch fire and then start killing.

Yeah, man. And then they're like, oh, it is Chris Rock. Yeah. And then it would go right back. He was like using them as like a sounding board. You're right. And he would tell them, like, I'm practicing. Yeah. You know? I remember one time he went on.

Somebody fucking killed and he went on and the first thing he said hold on relax. It ain't gonna be that funny All right, right. I told them yeah, yeah, calm down exactly. I'm working on some shit Yeah, but that's how you develop a monster hour. You have to start off with building a structure a man get a foundation Yeah, you fucking even your first night of the tour by the last night you go now. That's my act now Yeah, the friends who saw you the first two nights you like fuck

Fuck, I wish you would have seen me fucking a couple weeks later. I figured out that bit. Yeah, you don't want anybody to see you when you're doing a workout set. Like, get the fuck out of here. Oh, man. This is a workout set. This could be terrible. This could end badly. Especially when a buddy sees you eating. Yeah, like that. What a feeling. Yeah. There's no dismount here. Yeah.

Yeah, it's interesting how those guys, like a guy like Rock or Kinison or Louie or anybody who's just really killing it. Yeah. It elevates everybody around you. Yeah, man. Everybody gets a little better because of that, because you get inspired. I fucking agree. I think Rock was on stage and just killed one time, and I remember Jon Stewart, who was probably 24 at the time. I think I was like 18 or 20 or whatever our age difference is.

John Stewart goes, I don't want to. I quit. I don't want to. He's just like, God damn, that's good, man. Well, you know, that's what Eric Clapton said when he saw Jimi Hendrix. Yeah. He saw Jimi Hendrix. He's like, what am I doing?

What the fuck am I doing? You feel like a phony after you see you got great shit. Yeah. Well, especially a guy like Hendrix that comes along and he's doing something completely different than everybody else. Oh, yeah, man. Everybody else is playing guitar. They're all great. And then all of a sudden this guy comes on. Oh, my goodness. I know. Oh, that was a nasty one. When I work with Phil Hartman.

He told me a story when he was 18 years old, he worked at the whiskey and his job was they had those stage monitors and sometimes the stage monitors, the artists would accidentally kick them and they would go into the crowd. So his job was this because they were... You ever been to the whiskey? Yeah, sure. Small stage, right? Not that big. Yeah. And so...

When he would, he'd have to stand there like to be prepared to like catch the speaker. And Hendrix was right there. Like where you are to me, Hendrix was. And he was 18 years old. And he's like, dude, it was insane. That's so funny, man. Because Phil could play a little guitar too, but he was watching. He's like, I'm watching literally the greatest guitarist of all time. And he's three feet away from me. That's fucking cool, man.

Insane. And then Phil did all the album covers and shit. Remember he used to do the album? I have one of them out here. One of them framed. Oh, man. One of his album covers. He did a bunch. He's a great artist. He was a very interesting guy. Oh, yeah.

He could do so many different things. He studied. He made me feel like such a fraud because he would study his lines and he would have little post-it tabs, little different colored ones for different scenes. And he'd have notes and all these different things. And he would prepare for me. He'd be preparing the mirror. Yes, yes, yes. I was like, God. No, he was the pro for sure. Such a pro with everything. I know, man. When we were doing the show, he was getting his pilot's license.

So like every day in between scenes, he'd be like reading these pilots manuals. He was just like so dedicated to something. Yeah.

Yeah, yeah. I lived in the same apartment building when I was on SNL as Phil. Oh, wow. So I'd see him. We'd go up on the elevators together and talk about shit. I was, you know, of course, he was older, so you were just excited that he'd be talking to you. Yeah. He was a cool motherfucker, yeah. I remember the first day on the set of News Radio. Like, I couldn't even believe he was really there. Yes. I was, like, looking over across the table, you know, doing the table read. And I'm like, how did I get on this fucking show? I had zero acting experience.

Like, I did this one. How did you get it? The craziest story. The whole thing's crazy. I did MTV half hour comedy hour, right? Right. Do like, whatever, five, seven minutes, whatever that is. Who was the host? Joyner?

Yeah, Mario Joyner. So I did MTV half hour comedy hour. I got a development deal out of nowhere. Wow. For MTV. That's big. MTV was offering me a development deal. And then my manager started saying it was very little money. It was like 500 bucks. They were going to lock me up for like three years. It was crazy low money. It was so stupid.

But you would join. But I was like thinking about doing it. You want me? Let's do it. Yeah. I was thinking about doing it because this is like after remote control and they'd made Dennis Leary famous. Yes. They had decided they were going to lock people up to deals now because Leary got famous off that and then he took off and then kind of went away from MTV. I see. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So they had decided that they were going to lock up talent. Right. So if I did this pilot, if the pilot got picked up, I would have been there. So my manager said,

He said, I have an idea. And so he decided to send my MTV tape out to all these studios and say, this guy's about to sign a development deal for MTV, locked up, but he's still available. So then I started getting all these phones. People would call my apartment. I was at home like, hello? And like, hi, this is Bob Bob Bob from Universal. We want to get you on a plane right now to Los Angeles. I was like, what?

Wow. So I called my manager. I called Susie and I was like, hey, dude, these fucking people are calling my apartment. He goes, don't answer your phone. He goes, go to the pool hall. Don't answer the phone. And he goes, just leave it all to me. And so within like three weeks, I had this crazy deal for like one hundred fifty thousand dollars, which is the most money I'd ever even heard of in my life. And all of a sudden I was in Hollywood, like out of nowhere. So then I was on a sitcom. Who was the deal with, like CBS? It was with Disney. Oh, wow. Which is crazy because I was.

Filthy right yeah, yeah, and David and also never deal with Disney and I'm on the Oscar for that much money calm and So I had to get action lessons. I took a few acting lessons. I hated it. I was like this is gross Yeah, yeah, and then but I knew how to just pretend I'm like I pretend on stage I'll just pretend like sitcom acting is pretty easy right and so all of a sudden I'm on this sitcom it gets cancelled and I'm like I was thinking about moving back to New York, but I was like I hated LA I hated being around actors and

You couldn't joke around with them. They were all so sensitive. Everyone was on pills. They were all on antidepressants. I was like, get me out of here. I can't deal with it. I want to go back to comics. And so I was ready to move back to New York, but I had got this fucking apartment. I thought that the sitcom was going to go. So I got a lease on this beautiful apartment in North Hollywood. I had a loft and a pool table. I thought I was balling. I was making like 20 grand a week. I was like this.

amazing big yeah crazy i was like i'm rich yeah so i got this apartment i'm like well i have this apartment i can't just leave the apartment what the do i do right and so then i got another development deal and then so i i'd gone i'd on two auditions in my entire life one of them was hardball got that show the other one was news radio i got that show that's crazy it was made no sense it made no sense and all of a sudden i'm sitting there

And I'm sitting across from Phil Hartman. I'm like, this is crazy. That's a biggie. I had full imposter syndrome. And that show fucking kept going for a while. NewsRadio was big. No, it wasn't. It wasn't? I thought it was. Isn't that Brillstein Gray? Yeah. It wasn't big until after it was canceled. Oh, I see. And then it went into syndication. How many years did it? Five years. That's pretty good. Yeah, but it became really big in syndication. I see. I see. Four years or five? I think we did five years. We did like 98 shows.

Who else was on? I forget. Maura Tierney. She was great. Right, right, right. Dave Foley, amazing. That's right. Andy Dick. Yeah, yeah. And that's how I met Farley, through Andy. Right. And then Candy Alexander. She was awesome. Vicky Lewis. Stephen Root, amazing. All right. So it was a great cast. Yeah. And I felt like a fraud. I was like, all these people have background in theater and background in films and movies and TV shows. And I was just like-

Yes. Dirty comedian. Phil made everybody feel that way. Everybody was kind of like, well, he's the next level. Oh, he was the next level. And he was so good. Him and Stephen Root was so good, too. He was the only one that wasn't even himself. Everybody else was just being a version of Stephen Root. And, you know, he was a different human. Yeah. Like...

He was a sweet, normal guy, and then he would play Jimmy James, and he would just fall into this character. Yes, yes, yes. He had a character, just like when he was in Office Space. Yeah, unbelievable. Yeah. Now, he's worshipped, too. Bizarre, being on that show, because I was 26, 27 when I was on the show, and I was sitting- Making big money, wow. But it was also confusing. Yeah.

I felt like such an imposter. I was like, someone's going to figure out that I don't belong here. That's funny. And then I'm going to have to go get a job. That's nice, though. That's a good person to be feeling like that. I think I was a cocky fuck who was like, yeah, they figured it out. I'm here. But I literally didn't get shit growing up. I auditioned for shit and never got nobody like me. Really? Every audition, they were just like.

I would talk to my agent after and be like, you know, nervously asking what they say, you know? And then they'd have to be, well, did you read the sides before? I'd be like, what do you mean? That's what they said? Of course I read the sides. They were like, I thought you didn't know it that well. I go, what? I thought I knew it real well. They didn't like it? Do you think that you're... They would use words to kind of be gentle with me, but just say you're not ready yet. Well...

It's funny how you have confidence when you're young and you really do think that you're ready.

Like, I remember thinking that, like, at open mic nights. Like, you'd see someone on stage, and they were bombing. Like, God, I wish I could go up there. You know, that was terrible. Yeah. I would bomb, too. Yeah, of course. Yes. Or watching another actor, and you go, when you were young, and you'd see someone your age on a show, you'd be like, what's with the, what? I could fucking crush that shit. And then you realize, looking back, oh, that guy was pretty fucking good. Yeah. Well, news radio was fortunate, because I got to play, like, a more retarded version of myself. Yeah.

It was basically into a lot of conspiracy theories and weird and delusional. It was like a version of me. The writers are very smart. Did they know that? Yeah, they figured me out. I see. Figured me out after a while and started writing stuff in. That's funny. I would talk to them about...

fucking UFO projects that were top secret shit and then they put all that kind of stuff in the script. That's cool. Because I was into stupid things. It was fascinating. You got into that shit real young. Oh yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Alone in your head or you had somebody who brought it up to you and you started going with that?

Well, with conspiracies, a friend of mine who was in a band gave me a book once while I was on the road. And it was a book called Best Evidence by this guy, David Lifton. It's all about the Kennedy assassination. He's like, you got to read this. The government killed Kennedy. I was like, what? I remember reading this book going, what the fuck? I read this book. It was just really funny. And I went on stage after I read it and bombed. And I apologized to the club owner. I was like, look, man.

Man, I'm funnier than that. I read this fucking book. My mind wasn't right. And they're like, don't read it tomorrow. I go, I promise I'm not going to read it tomorrow. Tomorrow night I killed. And I killed the next night because I put the book down. I said, fuck.

You got to be. I didn't bomb terrible, but it was flat. It wasn't good. I was in a weird headspace. Yeah. I was like, Jesus Christ, they killed the president. Yeah. I was like, this is nuts. That's funny, man. Wow. It fucked you up. It fucked me up. And then it got me down this conspiracy spiral. So I started questioning things. Yeah. It's like, what else don't I know? Wow. And I started reading about all kinds of different things that I didn't know. That's fucking amazing, man. I read this book called The Strange Death of Vince Foster.

It's all Vince Foster guy work with Clinton who got murdered in a very they said it was a suicide be had the gun in his hand there was less but it but less blood at the crime scene that was missing from his body. It seemed like his body had been transported to the crime scene. Wow. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Jesus Christ.

Those things will fuck you up. Fascinating shit, yeah. If you get involved in reading books like that and your head gets filled with that kind of shit. You know, Quinn was like that too. Quinn read a lot of shit and he would tell me to read stuff. And I remember he knew a lot about crazy mass murderers and shit. And I would start going, what happened? And he would tell me these things. And I remember telling my dad some of the shit Quinn told me about. I don't remember who.

But I'd be like, and then this guy, blah, blah, blah, and Ted Bundy, and this and that. And my father started getting like, is my son a fucking murderer? Why is he talking so much about murder? Joey Diaz gave me this book called Murder Machine once. And it's about Roy DeMeo. Do you know who Roy DeMeo was? I'm not sure. He was a serial killer who worked for the mob. And he would kill people like...

They had a bar downstairs and they had an apartment upstairs. It would kill people and then cut them up in the bathtub upstairs and just killed a bunch of fucking people. It's a horrific book. And I remember reading that going, Jesus, fuck it. Just knowing that there's people out there in the world. Oh, my God. And you just get in the wrong fucking place at the wrong time. Wrong guy shows up at your house. Oh, boy. Oh, boy. Yeah. It was just like those things are terrible to read before you go on stage, though.

Fuck your brain up. That's so funny that you ate it because of that book, man. Oh, yeah. I've eaten it a couple times because I did the wrong thing before I went on stage. One time I had a gig in New Jersey, and it was a college. And it was a weird...

place to get to. It was back in the day before navigation. So they would give you the directions over the phone. Like go to 405, get off this exit. So they give me the directions and I get there. I leave early because they tell me it's really hard to get to. And I get there about a half hour early.

Yes. But it was hard to get. I was like, Jesus Christ, this place is hard to find. Yeah. And I was working with J.B. Smooth. Uh-huh. Wow. And J.B. was supposed to open and I was supposed to close. And they said, J.B.'s not here yet, so why don't you just relax in the rec room and sit down and we'll tell you when the show's going to start. Uh-huh. So I sit down and I'm watching this documentary on the Malibu fires. Uh-huh.

And it's all these people, like people lost their family, lost their house. This little kid walking around looking for his dog. Rusty, where are you, Rusty? Oh, fuck you up. Yelling for their dog. Your dog's dead, right? And there was this fireman who was just weeping and crying because the people in this community lost his house. And then they come in the green room. They go, look, JB's not here yet, so we're going to have you open up. And hopefully when you get off stage, he's going to go up. I'm like, okay. Okay.

And I'm in the fucking, I'm crying. I was literally crying watching this thing about these people losing everything in these fires. It was horrific. Oh my God. And I went on stage and just ate shit. That's terrible. And then finally JB shows up and he showed up and he went on after me and murdered.

He was loose and happy and relaxed. He came in the right mood, didn't watch that shit. And he's a killer anyway. He's very funny anyway. And I remember thinking, God, you can't do that. I was with my girlfriend at the time, and she was so disappointed in me. Like, ugh.

But she's seen you kill before. Yeah, she knew I was funny. It's funny, man. I go, watch that fucking thing. I have similar... It's not from watching something. I have moments where I'm driving to a club and I'm in this fucking mood where I'm going, oh my God, I ain't gonna fucking destroy it tonight. I have such a... Like the last two hours have been in the right mood. Maybe some fucking song comes on.

I'm like, oh fuck that fucked me up a little bit that song and then I walk in then I'm in this fucking weird mood I'm a little down I get on stage all of a sudden. I let the crowd own me I'm like what the fuck happened? I was so ready to kill tonight and I fucking turned into Why am I here?

You get sad. You can't get sad before you go on stage. You got to protect your mind. My wife helps me out sometimes when she sees my head spinning before I go up. She goes, they're here to see you. They're here to see you. Oh, that's good. They like you. You don't have to worry so much. I'll be like, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, they're here for the good time. Yeah. They're not testing you.

Go have some fun with him. I go, yeah, no, no, no. You're right. You're right. And then I go, fuck, let me go on happy. Because the times I go on fucked up and being like, this guy's going to like me or am I going to have to fight? I'm like, I have fucked up over that. That's why, to me, one of the things I've realized early on is take people on the road with you. Because in the early days when I was headlining, they would have like a local middle act and a local opener. Right.

And sometimes it'd be fun. That's right. And sometimes it'd be terrible. Sometimes a guy would be a douchebag. Yeah. Like, why are you fucking closing? Exactly. And they would step on your material. Like, they'd see your set first night. And then they'd cover the same subjects. Holy shit. You didn't have to argue with them. Forgot about that. Hey, man, you're doing one of my fucking bits. No, man, I've been doing that bit. Like, fuck you. There was like a lot of sabotage going on. Right.

It just wasn't fun because then you'd be stuck in this town. You didn't know anybody there. You're just watching TV, go to the movies by yourself. In the condo, yeah, yeah. Yeah, depressing. Yeah. And so I realized if you could go on the road with funny people, you're going to have fun. Well, yeah. It's good for them because they get a gig. So I'd just have to pay the opening act and I'd have to pay for their airfare. And I would make less money, but I would have more fun. I was like more fun is more important than anything. Yeah, absolutely.

Absolutely. And it's more important for the show, too. You go up in the right frame always. And I know that the comics in front of me are going to be really good. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So it's going to be a good show. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I want the audience to have fun, but I want to have fun, too. So then it was a party. Then I'd be on the road with Joey Diaz, and we'd be having a party everywhere we'd go. Yeah, he's funny. We'd be just having fun. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it became family. It was like...

Wherever we were, it didn't matter if we were in Ohio or New Jersey. It was us. We were laughing. Daytime's fun. Yeah. Have dinner together, then go fucking do your shit. Exactly. Then stay up all night. Yeah, I know. But Joey was such a wild card. This is back in the Joey, the cocaine days. This is Coco, Joey, Coco. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I used to, I brought a second opening act in case Joey didn't show up. Wow. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

That makes some sense. Because sometimes I didn't want to tell him he couldn't do the gigs. Hey, you're not reliable. Yeah. Because I loved him. Of course. And I love people. I'm like, the times that he's there are so magic. Sure. I want to make sure that he knows he's always got a gig. What a fucking funny one. So I'd book him. And then sometimes I'd book him and we'd do Friday and Saturday. Yeah. And then I'd call him on Sunday. I'd go, hey, the show's 7 o'clock. I'm going back home. Like, what are you talking about? You know I don't do Sundays. Like, what are you talking about? You don't do Sundays. I told you, Joe Rogan. I don't do Sundays. Oh, my. You never told me.

You're springing that on me, man. We have a show in an hour. I told you. Yeah. And so having a third opening act or a second opening act would be perfect. And you'd say you've got to do longer. Yeah, yeah. Well, it would be like I'd bring Ari. So if it was me and Ari Shafir, it's like, okay, Ari does 25 minutes, and then I'll do an hour and 15 or whatever, and we've got a great show. Yeah, man.

If Joey shows up, okay, now we got a three-man show. Funny, man. Perfect. I love that. So I scheduled it just so we'd always have some sort of a fail-safe. It's fucking way more fun. When I go out with the gang, good Lord, we have a good time there. Yeah, you're having fun. It's fucking, and you write shit. Yes. Because you want to make them laugh. Exactly. Instead of doing the same fucking shit over and over, you're just like,

hey I'm going to try some new shit out tonight and then your buddies come out and watch you and it's exciting and you watch them and you got a tag for them and you have a good time you're having a good time everyone's having a good time which to me was like way more important than making X amount of thousand dollars more I'd rather give them that money and then

We all have fun. Yeah. That to me was the best way. When I was real young, I started at 17 and I had a car.

And so I used to get booked a lot because I would drive the good guys, you know? Right. But I've noticed that it was always three of us, me and the two other fucking guys who were good, and they would have the best time together. They fucking think I suck, but it was fine. I was just getting to be with the guys who were like 25. I was 17, 18. They were 25, shooting the shit, whatever.

you know, getting into trouble, but going on stage and destroying. But, and then you'd see him fucking hanging in the hotels and shit and always having the best night. And I'd be like, yeah, that seems like the way to, I was on my own still. They would kind of be like that fucking Adam guy.

He'll take us home. But I didn't think he was that funny. But fucking learn from seeing these superstar guys on the road. Fucking have fun. Isn't it funny how sometimes those guys always think of you as that guy? Their relationships are the same. Exactly. They're still like, hey, what's up? They're like, I know you fucking went on. I remember when you sucked. Yes, exactly. Which is why you have to get out of your hometown. And you talk back to them. Yeah. I still let them own me, these guys.

I'm like, yeah, all right. You did see me suck. You're right.

Well, that's why you have to get out of your town, because they always remember you as an open mic-er. Hell yeah, yeah, yeah. I didn't get any headlining gigs in Boston. Wow. Where did you play? You played Stitches? Stitches, Nick's Comedy Stop, Connection. Connection, what a room. It was a great room. Fucking incredible. The little one? The little one was the best. Tight, low ceiling. Yeah, yeah, low ceiling. 150 seats. Yeah, it was packed. Stuck.

Stuffed in there bumper rockin. It was packed. There's a main time. Right? Yeah play it again Sam's was that oh, yeah Yeah, I did play it again Sam's that place was great. What was the one that was a Chinese restaurant Kowloon Saugus and Saugus. Yeah, well then the ding-ho was the big no Yeah, I wasn't there for that. Oh, I think that's the one I did that place went under a few years before I started and

Uh-huh. So when I came around, I had missed the heyday of Boston comedy. It was like 84. And I came around in 88. That's when I started. Gotcha. So they would always talk about the ding-ho. And there was all these killers like Lenny Clark, all these guys from the ding-ho. Didn't fuck with Lenny Clark. A lot of Tony B. Tony B.

Tony V, animals. Some of these guys, you just couldn't fucking, you just would watch them go, how the fuck can I kill like that? Well, those guys had, as you said, they had the same act for like 15 years. And that act was like hammered down like a samurai sword. Yeah, yeah. It was so tight. Like Don Gavin, so tight. You'd see his act like, Jesus Christ, this guy would murder. Fucking Tommy Sledge. Do you remember? He pretended to be a private eye.

I backed off. I moved on. He was funny as shit. Some of those guys, some of those guys and some of those ladies, man, they murdered. Did you ever see that documentary when stand-up stood out? No. Fran Salamita made this great documentary about the heyday of Boston comedy called When Stand-Up Stood Out. And it was all about the transition between these guys being these local comics that were as good as anyone in the world. And then Stephen Wright becomes famous.

And then Stephen Wright gets on The Tonight Show. He becomes this world. Was it Letterman or The Tonight Show that he first did? I forget what it was, but he became huge. And then they're all now everyone's like scrambling. Like, what did we do? Like, we didn't we didn't have an act that translated outside of Boston. Yeah, that's that's true. Back then it was very Boston.

Very, very local. Stephen Wright definitely in my high school, holy shit, everybody knew him. It was like Rodney. He was like right after Rodney. You'd repeat his jokes. You couldn't believe it. And everyone was like, he's fucking so smart. I used to work at a fire hydrant factory.

You couldn't park anywhere near the place. Yeah. Unbelievable. Ridiculous. I think I tried to write like him in the beginning. I think I, as a stand-up, did like 10 different guys. I didn't know who I wanted. Right. I didn't know what was right. I was doing like Bobcat kind of shit. I'd do a character. I didn't know what the fuck. But Stephen Wright, we'd always, me and my buddy...

We kind of try to write in that vein of a little weird and make you think, what a cool joke. I don't fucking know. I also remember all those guys got popped by the IRS. Stand-ups? Yeah, they all got popped because none of them were paying taxes. They were all getting paid cash. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so they all got in trouble. I remember working at Nick's Comedy Stop. They offered you could get paid in cash or in coke.

Yeah, yeah, I remember those days. That's how wild those days were. And so these guys were just animals. They were all getting paid cash. They were drinking and partying every night. And they were headlining. And there's one time during the heyday where Nick's Comedy Stop had three rooms running simultaneously. That's right, yeah. And they'd have two shows a night in each room. So these guys would do six sets. And they were making bags.

And they all had a deal. Like the way Nick's had them set up where they were Nick's Comics exclusives. So they would just work for Nick's. But they gave you so much work. You didn't want to branch out. They booked the road too, right? They've had a few road gigs. I remember Bill Downs was the connection. He used to book me on the road too.

I worked for a private investigator when I was starting out, when I was an open mic-er. And this private investigator was Bill Downs' cousin. And I didn't find out about him until after I started working for him. Wow. And to this day, one of the funniest guys I've ever met in my life. Just never did stand-up. His name was Dick Dolan. Dave Dolan, rather. He called himself Dynamite Dickless Dave Dolan. Uh-huh. Yeah.

he was fucking hilarious I have a phone that I he died a couple years back but I have a phone that I saved and I'll never get rid of because it's got a voicemail on that phone from him where he called me up it was like I did a gig in Boston I hung out with him it was like hey Joe like this he was just a

Boston character. Just a hilarious dude. And he was cousins with Bill Downs. Funny, man. Bill Downs, what a guy. That guy used to book me all the time. Even when I would do bad, he'd be like, I heard it didn't go that good. I'd be like, yeah. And in my head, I'm like, okay, it's over. Big guy. He'd call you big guy. Hey, big guy. I heard it didn't go that good, big guy. Yeah, right, right, right. Yes, I know. But then he fucking...

Get me another gig. Oh, yeah. In Quincy, there was some place in Quincy. I forget the name of that. The Naughty Pine. Did you ever work for Dick Doherty? I don't think so. You never did Dick Doherty's Comedy Huts?

Dick Daugherty, he called himself the godfather of Boston comedy. Oh, okay. He had a bunch of terrible gigs in the world. Was that like 88 on? Yeah, 88 on. I fucking was in the scene in Boston more from 84 to 88. Okay, so you were in the heyday. So you got there like right... I got there, it was huge. I wasn't great, but then, buddy, all of a sudden, I got on Saturday Night Live, I don't know, 89 or something.

Those same guys would come see me. All of a sudden, I got big in the colleges. And I was doing these fucking giant shows back then. It was unbelievable. You know, 2,000, 3,000, 5,000 seats. And the guys that I used to eat it in front of would come see.

do the gigs with me and they'd watch me and they'd be like that fucking loser is killing now the fuck did that have it's again the thing when they see you in the beginning they never respect you right right they remember you sucking yeah they were right they were right back then yeah but it's it's hard for people to accept that you grew

Yeah. Which is weird. That's true. That's true. It's like some fucking pro athletes. It's like, like Jordan fucking wasn't the man for a while. Right. He got cut from his high school team, right? Exactly. That shit's going to happen in every, every, uh, every, uh, profession that you just got to get, figure out what you're, you just got to practice. Well,

Did you always want to be on SNL? No. Or was it something that came up? I didn't even know. It wasn't the thought. I wanted to be a movie star. I was cocky and telling my friends in college, I'm going to be a fucking movie star. They'd be like, why? Why?

Why would you be a movie star? Look at you. You got fucking, I'd be like, you don't get it, man. I'm fucking. And I thought I was good looking too. I thought I was good looking. Like now I go, how the fuck did I think? I like, I know I'm normal looking, but I thought there was something fucking attractive about me that people are going to be like, that's a fucking stud right there. And, um, no, I, I, then I think, um, I was doing standup, Dennis Miller, uh,

said good shit about me to SNL people. And then Sandy Wernick was my manager and he knew all of them and they got me an audition. And then I did it and then they hired me, asked me to be a writer. And I remember saying to Herlihy, who knew more about

I didn't watch SNL that much. I was kind of lost. They were like, it's really good. Dana Carvey's incredible. I go, yeah, yeah, he's great. He's great. And I was like, but I kind of want to get in the movies. And they were like,

And my buddies were like, you should do SNL if there's that choice, you know? So you were thinking about not doing it? Well, I wasn't sure. I wasn't sure. I was kind of like, let's see, let's see. I'm not a writer, so why am I going to become a writer? It doesn't make any sense. I'm not even that fucking good at that. What was the audition like? What did you have to do? I did stand-up in Chicago Improv. It was me, Rock, Dana Gould, and a couple other guys. And I did decent in the SNL people's...

Thought I wrote some funny shit. Lauren thought I wrote some funny shit. Robert Smigel thought I had some shit and then I got on. Wow. And Spade was on. How old were you? I was 23. Whoa. Yes, that was big. That's nuts. That's as cool as it gets. Yes. What was that feeling like?

was all of a sudden it became like you were in a rock band because I had, you know, Farley got on and fucking rock and Spade and we would walk down the street and Schneider and Norm and we all, Tim Meadows, we were just always together. So there was this crazy band confidence. You know, if anyone talks shit about the show...

We were at a restaurant. Like, it wasn't that good this Saturday. We were just like, shut the fuck up, man. Like, we were fucking ready. Because there were so many of us, you know? It was like, but then when you're alone and somebody says, I saw you, you're kind of like, huh, yeah? You know, there's something cool about having a bunch of guys with you. Oh, yeah. It's confidence. Yeah, you got a team. Yeah, yeah, yeah. 23. Mm-hmm. What is it like, like...

when it was popping, because you were on a great era of SNL, too. Look at that fucking cast. Yes. Hartman, Tim Mech. Look at that fucking cast. Oh, fucking everybody. Look how young Spade looks in Rock. Oh, my God. Cute, yeah. Al Franken. Jesus Christ. Look at that cast. That's when he was in the cast that year. Wow. Nealon, everybody loved. Everybody loved. And Ellen Claghorn, I knew from the comic strip. Wow.

And Melanie and Julia. All cool. All cool. Very tight. But we all love Nealon. Every comedian loves Nealon. Everybody liked the way he dropped jokes in and fucking smoothed his...

Smooth as hell. Isn't it crazy looking at yourself back then? I fucking don't know what I was thinking. Spade sent me a fucking skit we did like six months ago. And I was like, this is the first time this ever happened, Spade. I don't fucking remember that one ounce. I don't even know what that thing was about. I don't remember what it was, but I go, I didn't remember saying any of those words. I didn't know what the jokes were. I didn't know what the fucking ending was. And he's like, you don't? I said, I don't fucking remember that one. You did? He goes, I sort of did.

But it was weird. That's how I know I've been doing this so fucking long to this shit. I know I've been doing this shit long when somebody comes up to me, a big famous motherfucker...

And we go, hey, man. I go, hey, nice to meet you. And he's like, nice to meet you. We met. And I'm like, I fucking didn't remember meeting you. What the fuck happened? Well, your brain gets overwhelmed with people. Yeah. You know that number, Dunbar's number? Do you know what that is? No. Dunbar's number is a principle that you can only keep like 150 people in your head at any given time. And then there's some people that you can keep kind of like in a distance, like acquaintances. But there's like a tight group of a small number. And then as it branches out...

it gets to like 150. Everything after that is very sketchy. Wow. And when you're famous, you're constantly meeting people, which is very unusual for human beings. That's right. Yeah. Also very unusual that they know you, but you don't know them. Right. So there's this weird thing where you go, nice to meet you. Like we met. Oh, I forgot. Sorry. It's not like I don't like you. It's not like I don't care. I'm not mean. I got hit with a bunch of them today. Yeah. Your brain's overwhelmed with, with people. Right. Yeah.

There's no room. You don't have room. It's like, remember the old phones where you could only keep like 100 contacts? You saw the phone, it had like one fucking...

little tiny hard drive. And once you got over a certain, nobody keeps a hundred people on your phone. That's funny. And that was, that's all it could take. And that's how your brain is. Your brain doesn't have room for all these people. Yeah. So it's not even your fault. It's like your brain's not designed to be famous. No one's brain is designed. Never thought of it like that. That's what it is. That's great. And then when you've done so many things, like as many things as you have, it's just normal that you're going to forget. Yeah. Yeah.

When the pandemic was going on, my kids found out about news radio. They didn't know about it because I don't talk about it. You don't talk about your shit. They're not impressed by me. My kids diss me all the time. They're always cracking jokes at me. It's fun. It's fun. We talk a lot of shit, but it's fun. Yes.

But, you know, they watched me on news radio and I watched one of the scenes. I was like, I don't even remember this at all. Oh, you had that too, right? Oh, yeah. I didn't remember it at all. Don't remember being there. Don't remember that room. Remember not, occasionally. I'll remember like four or five episodes. Oh, yeah, I remember that one. That was a fun episode. That's funny, man. Yeah, but it's weird. You know, your brain just doesn't have any room for it. It's almost like it's a lie. Like, I didn't,

do that. This is why. Oh my God. This is AI. By the way, not one time have I ever looked back at that shit from 30 years ago and go, whoa, was I good? I'm always like, geez, what the fuck were you doing? What a fucking horrible performance there. Well, I think that's probably a good sign. That's a sign of a person who's not egocentric. Right, right, right. You kind of have a good sense of who you are. Yeah, yes. I hope so. The people that think everything they did is amazing. You ever go over to someone's house and they want you to watch something?

something that they've done. They're like, don't make me do this. Oh, that's a toughie. Don't make me do this. Hey, you gotta watch my reel. No. No, that's a roughie. Don't make me watch this. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You can say to me, you don't want this. Don't do this, man. Don't do this. This is for the best. Also, I'll start shitting on you. Yeah, yeah, yeah. If you play that, I'm gonna start shitting on you. That's funny, man.

It's got to be a bizarre feeling to be 23 years old and be on an iconic television show. Oh, man, I was fucking never more excited to call home and talk to my New Hampshire buddies and be like, I mean, remember all that shit I said that was going to happen? It's fucking happening. I don't have to bullshit right now. It's really going. And then when I would get on the show, say one line, whatever, it was just like my parents, my family, my friends, just like, that was so fun.

That was incredible. You know, I would play the busboy or the delivery guy. It's just half a line. And it was like, holy shit, you did it. You're on TV, man. Wow. My first TV show was Showtime at the Apollo. Really? I did that. That was my first thing I ever did. Wow. And they fucking sent a limo to pick us up. I lived in Chelsea.

How old were you then? I think I was 18 or 19. I think I was 18. Whoa! 18! That's crazy. Went on, and it was the second episode ever of Showtime at the Apollo. The first was Rock, and Rock cursed so much that they didn't use his shit. So I was like the first comedian to be on. I fucking, I forget. Yeah.

Shit, the host was a great guy. Is this it? Yes! That's Melba Moore! Oh my god, yes. This one goofy guy. Terrified. Look at that face! Fucking young dumb. Uh-huh.

I don't know what's happening there. How painful is this to watch? Hurts. Hurts. Yeah, yeah. Hit mute. Hit mute. Yeah, no, I fucking... I can't say I was very good back then, but I had some fucking confidence. What was the first movie you did? First movie I did was pretty awesome. I, 22, moved out to L.A., did stand-up at the Improv. It was probably my third time ever. I get off stage.

uh two or three nice youngsters director writers came up to me hey that was good you want to be in a movie i said yeah for sure they were like okay we're gonna make a movie we're

doing a movie on a boat I said okay when when next week we leave I go okay great I said uh you know do I have a big part they go well you're the star I go okay cool so I go home I tell Judd I was with my all my buddies and Judd comes over he goes what happened I said they said I can start and they go he goes do they have a script I go oh I don't know I didn't even know there were scripts I knew nothing about it and then I just fucking went on a boat for six days and shot this movie

At the time, it was called the Unsinkable Shacky Moskowitz, but now it's called Babes Ahoy. And I was 22. Wow.

And you were the star of the movie? I was Shecky. Whoa. I don't know how it happened. Milton Berle was in it. Whoa. I had a scene with him, so I got to tell my parents I'm doing great. What was Milton Berle like? Very nice. I heard he shows everybody his cock. It was accidentally seen if I remember that big hog of his fell out of his shorts. He had a monster hog. He had a very great dick. And apparently he would show everybody his hog. Imagine that, getting to show your dick and being, there he is. Dick at you. Yes. By the way, I was in shape then.

Yeah, that's Adam. Look at that. Yeah, that's me, skinny. Yeah, I would get shut down by a girl there. That's when I was fucking young and happy. 22 years old. 22. Wow. Thanks for showing that. It's good without volume. I don't know what happened, man. It's painful to see your young voice. Whenever my kids see that shit, they're like, why did you talk like that? I go, I don't know.

I was in acting class at school, and I did a scene. I thought I did great. And then they opened it up to the class to say shit. One kid goes, why is he talking like that? And in my head, I'm like, what the fuck is this guy talking about? Why did you use that dumb voice? I was like, what fucking dumb voice? But then I watched the shit back and I go, oh, that kid was right, man. Fucking pathetic. What was the first big movie you did?

I was in Bobcat Goldthwait made a movie called Shakes the Clown. I remember that movie. That was a great fucking movie. That was exciting. Yeah, that was good. That was the alcoholic clown movie. Exactly. And Bobcat was funny as shit in it. And he made me and Blake Clark. We were his best friends.

And that was it. That was the big time. Wow. Loved it. Shakes the Clown. That movie doesn't get enough love. That was big. A lot of people liked it. It wasn't a massive hit, but it was cool as shit. Yeah, it was cool. It was a crazy movie. Yeah. It was like Bobcat stretching his wings. Is this after Police Academy? I think he did Police Academy first, right. Yeah. Wow, man. You got every fucking thing ready to go. Julie Brown.

downtown julie round yeah wow man yes yes there's bob on the ground or i think it is bobcat wow yeah and florence henderson was in it there he is yeah he knew what he was doing bobcat he knew how to direct i didn't even know what he was talking about back then he's like i'm directing i was like well he directed the first episodes of the chapelle show

He did? Yeah. I was in New York, and I was walking down the street, and I was doing Caroline's for the weekend. Wow. And I was just walking down the street, and I ran into Bobcat. And I go, hey, man, what are you doing? He goes, oh, I'm here with Dave Chappelle. We're doing this show. And I ran into Dave, and Dave had a fake mustache on. I go, Dave, what are you doing? He goes, oh, hey, Joe. You want to be on my TV show? I was like, okay. What do I got to do? I go, I only got like an hour. He goes, we're handing out medals for the best New York boobs ever.

And so he gives me this box of medals, and me and him just walk around with this box of medals. This is like...

2001-ish? Wow. Something like that. Yeah, look at Dave. Wow. So funny. I mean, you could never do this today. You got the best New York booze. Wow, look at you. Yeah. Fucking A. Wow. That's so funny. And it was just completely random. Shit, he's just like Dave Chappelle there, too. He wasn't coming up with a new guy. He was very sure who he was. Yeah.

You go to jail for that today. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You go to jail for that today. Yeah. It was just Bobcat was directing it. That's so funny. Yeah, just complete random run into Bobcat in the middle of nowhere. That's cool, yes. And he was older than us where he was like, he knew his shit. Well, he was a guy that like, you know, Bobcat had that crazy act early on where he was like, ah!

And then he decided he didn't want to do it anymore. Yes, yes, yes. And then he would just do stand-up. And people were like, hey, where's Bobcat? Yeah, right. Fuck you. Yeah, he fucking had, he stayed strong with quitting it. Yeah, he had to stay strong with quitting it. He did a show with me about a year ago. He came out a couple times, I think, and fucking murdered. He's a funny guy. Yeah, yeah. He was always a very funny stand-up. Yeah. But he was trapped in that character that he did, that screaming, crazy, pull-your-hair-out character. Yes.

You know, it's like there's guys that have characters like Emo Phillips. He had that. Wow. Yeah. I love them. Yeah. But you can't do that when you're 80. Yes. I know. I know. I know. It's like, but I was trying to do that. That's what I'm saying. When I was young and I wasn't doing well, I was like,

I started doing a guy who was drunk on stage. I started doing a guy who was very nervous. I don't know. I was going for that shit, too. Just trying to find it. I didn't know what. I'm trying to be comfortable on stage, you know? Right. And that's what you had going on your live show. I was like, oh, shit. Comfortable. Fucking not terrified. You sat in moments. Not easy to do.

I was in the zone. You were in the zone. How about the fact that you got in the zone when there are times when you walk on that stage and these pressure moments, you just go, I'm in the zone.

I'm here. I'm talking, but I'm not here right now. My mouth is moving. I don't know what the fuck is going on. You didn't have that though. Well, I'd been through a bunch of those before, so I knew never to let that happen when I was out there in the live show. It's also why I was scared of doing it. So I just really overprepared. It's big. I made sure that when I got out there, I was just, I just said to myself, everything that I'm talking about, every time I want to be only thinking about that subject, I don't

I'm not going to let my mind deviate or go, oh my God, this is going good. Don't fuck this up. Don't fuck up this segue. Don't fuck this up. That's funny. You can't think like that. I felt like when I'm at my best, I'm only thinking about the thing I'm talking about. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then you lock the audience in. Yes. I think stand-up is a form of hypnosis. Yes.

Do you think so too? Absolutely. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I get exactly what you're saying. You lock them in to the way you're... When I'm seeing a guy kill on stage, I'm locked in to the way they're thinking. I'm letting them think for me. I'm just like, think for me. Right. You know? And they're like, ah, this is so funny. And it's like, it's a form of hypnosis. And I said, the only way that that's going to really work is I have to...

just be completely dialed in. Like I wrote out all my bits. I listened to recordings. I watched videos. I prepared for five hours the day of the show. Wow. Just watching video. I went to the gym. In the gym, I'm listening to my set. Listening to your own shit, yes. Yeah. I'm just like, I want to be just done.

Dialed in. I get like that. Yeah. 100% dialed in. Oh, that's a fucking great feeling. Yeah. When you go, I know all my shit, man. Because sometimes I'll do a tour, then I'll break down for two weeks because I can't be gone too long.

Then I go shit. I got a gig again Friday, and then I've listened to the shit Yeah, and then I start going. Oh yeah. Oh, yeah, fuck fuck but it tags. Oh god Yeah, but then that two-week break on a tour and then you go back out man. You psyched to say that shit again Oh, yeah, and you come up with other shit to say and yeah But you do have to go over the material your brain doesn't remember anymore

No, no, no. Like, your stuff just goes away. What about you with having shit that steps on... The hardest part of doing an hour is...

fucking having the 10 minutes up front not hurt the fucking next 10. It's just so crazy. I cut a lot of stuff. Yeah. But it's been six years since my last special. Like I said, I was thinking about doing a special in August of 2020. Yeah. Then the country shut down and then I didn't do stand-up for eight months and when I did do stand-up again, I remember I had to listen to old recordings. Yeah. Luckily, I record everything. Yeah, that's good. I have all my recordings on my phone so I listen to stuff and then I had to write things out but

I remember the first set that I did, I did the Houston Improv. And I hadn't done stand-up in forever. And I remember when I was on stage, I was like, ooh, this is weird. I had never in my whole career. I got knee surgery. And from my knee surgery, I took two weeks off. That was like the most I had ever taken off ever. And I think one other time I took a month off for some reason. I forget why.

But that was weird, too. But that was like when I was in the middle of a bunch of other stuff. I was just working so much. I didn't have any time. And then I remember that was, don't do that again because it feels awkward to get back. But eight months was crazy. It was just such a bizarre feeling.

Yeah, you forget how to do it. Yeah, but it's kind of even just two weeks. Take two weeks and go back on stage again. You feel weird. Like, what am I doing? It's all new shit to your brain again. It's also the experience of doing it is weird. You know how to do it, but it just feels... It doesn't feel comfortable. What a fucking odd feeling when you think about going on stage and just going...

Yeah, I'm basically telling all you people, just watch me for an hour. Right. Just watch me. It's worth your time. I know you drove. You got babysitters. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Here we go. Yeah, you bought tickets in advance. You planned your day out. What a psycho of a human being to just go, let me fucking come look at this. Yeah, you have to be out of your fucking mind. Or just really prepared. Yeah, man. You have to be so prepared. My special, this one, I did...

probably two and a half hours of shit and had to kind of, you know, Josh, Safdie, and we all had to pick the right, the shit we thought was the right shit. But I did have so much shit. By the time I did the special, I just came off the road. So I just had... Where'd you record it?

We're placing Glendale. I have a little theater. Oh, cool. Hey, I'm sorry to interrupt. Can I pee for one? Yeah, we can wrap this up. We've done two hours and 40 minutes. We did? Yeah. We've been in that long? Yeah, we've been in that long. It's fucking insane. This is the setup. Look at this. Oh, that's my first Netflix. I like the backdrop, too. It's just normal. Yeah, that's cool. It's like, did you set it up like that, or is that just what it looked like back then?

That was it. That was that theater. I forgot the name of that theater. It's a cool shit. So you just left it the way it looks. Perfect. Yeah, yeah. That actually, that day was, you know, Paul Thomas Anderson, the great guy and a great director, he shot that shit. How many people are there in the crowd? Some. That one there, that's that first special I did like five, six years ago. That, some are like,

Big ass joints, you know, like big arena things. Some are like 200, 300. But the new one? The new one was only like, I don't know, 200? 200 people? 250. Oh, wow. It was real small. Nice. That's a great way to do it, too, because the people that are in the audience, there's 200 people. So people at home, it's going to be like you're there. Instead of being in an arena where you feel disconnected. You can laugh at the jokes, but you don't feel like you're there. That's exactly what...

So Josh Safdie, he directed it. He wanted it to feel like you're getting to hang out with me. And it's kind of like just shit goes on throughout the show that wasn't supposed to happen. And that's that. It shows me before a show, during the show, and after the show.

And, man, we had fun. It is a great fucking vibe, that place. That was not a comedy club. It was just a little theater that they do. These people bought a theater. They put on little plays there and shit. And then Josh liked it, and they made it kind of feel like a stand-up. That's awesome. And when is it out? What day?

The 27th. August 27th, yeah. Okay, so a couple weeks from now. Yeah, yeah, yeah. All right, man. I congratulate you on yours. Thank you, sir. Congratulations to you, too. My piss ended the whole thing. I appreciate it. No, it's all good. All right, right on, man. It's amazing you hung in this long. Fuck. A lot of people, an hour and a half in, they start clamping up. That's good, man. I just mentally said I got to get past that pissing, man. Well, thank you, brother. I appreciate you. Thanks for being here, too. Good to see you, Joe. Congrats. Thank you. Keep up all the good work. Say hi to your family, too. Thank you. All right. Bye, everybody. Bye.

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