#2177 - Chris Robinson
02:24:27 Share

The joe rogan experience.

So the first season, like sixty, seventy two or three.

I think columbo, I forgot about that show. They to tell not to smoke.

Well, now, like the character, I could tell their private building up, like you, like you notice that he has a cigar in his hands the whole series of every episode but but it's funny the ninety seven two people like, please don't smoke in here, mr. Late columbo. He's always being like release ded for IT interesting .

I forgot .

about that and he's always really, you know, Peter fox care he's always oh, sorry and he puts IT out. He's never like upset anything.

Yeah, he was there was an interesting character, right? Because he was like this bumbling guy who was actually not he was kind of set you up the whole time, letting you underestimate him, act pardon. He's .

always about to see he yes, he comes .

back and he's knowing people.

Incredible though athegither. And like the other day and watching this episode that JoNathan demme directed, Stephen filter, I mean, like all of these famous directors start to cut their teeth in TV and on epithetic things like that, but really real tone to IT and stuff. It's cool in the way everyone looked.

But one another funny thing of about IT that i've never been killed, but is there always starts with a murder. And then usually a lot of times and art of the story, someone shows up to the crime scene IT, usually whoever did IT or whatever, right? And so but they're never upset.

There's never. So what is that? What happened here? Your uncles had murdered? Oh, I didn't do IT.

It's kind like I starts instead of some dramatic, you know like, oh my god, you know how can this that you know it's even fat they're just like, okay, well, you're bothering me now in cop shows, you can always tell to the even sv that I was like, I ve had enough. Can you guys leave and they leave my other goals? I don't know.

no. It's wear how many of those shows there are where they catch the bad guy like that is it's like something that I guess people with anxiety need to let them feel like if someone is a bad person and they do commit a murder, they're going to get caught.

Like are are the interest in those kind of dark scenario? You're only interested in them when there's justice at the end is out like because anything nebula or whatever is like too real.

Yeah there's those shows and then there's medical shows. Member, there was there was a time where they are like every other fuck and show on .

TV was about a hospital. Yeah, yeah. And the only one that I really remember is quinsy. So jack clogging yelling at everywhere, you know, he's yelling about the sandwich, he's yelling about the blood sample is, yes, when we were kids, we were hard core. We were, you know, that initial phase of american kind of hard core punk stuff because we had just missed out the, like, seventy seven, seventy, eighty, seventy nine.

And then there was an episode about the lin and the, and Quentin goes to the punk club, do you see what your kids are? Do so wod music at the anger, the the pills are, what do you like? And there was a thing when we were kids, and there was the song, I forget, which banded IT. But if you were, you were fake. If you were quinzy pok, you know, because they took back the way people looked on quinzy or whatever, and that instantly became a .

big punk.

Yeah, yeah, your bullshit .

when you started out like what what was the inspiration for your brand? Like what would you guys into?

I mean, it's it's hard to untangle because my dad was a singer. So our dad was a singer and he was very well. I did was the kind of a strange guy in general, a lovely guy, but dynamic, to say the least.

But he had had, like a hit in the late fifties called boom, a dip dip at the top forty kind of record, and and a couple of subsequent sort of, we know, rocket road singles. And he was living in new york and stuff. And then when he, that kind of pales out and then he moves back to lana and he immersed himself and like the folk music scene and he was signed to a label called abc. So by the time I come along in sixty six, it's kind of he's not doing that anymore.

Um what was he doing?

He a smart guy. He was in middle. He was like willow wen, you know, he was in the garment c business. My hit, my grandfather, I Robinson, they were in children's where my dad was in women's where, and then ended later back in children's where.

But the one thing around the house that I remember earliest memories of him pilling out this, his guitar and singing folk songs, and just, I don't know, I am dialectic person, and so my, you know what I mean. So there, I don't know if that has anything to do with IT, but there were something about always singing these songs. They would like open up stuff for me, almost like being higher, not in a psychotic c way, but in a way that IT changed the space, you know, I mean, and record started doing that to me very early.

And that kind is where so it's kind of, we think it's Normal. Other kids dads aren't playing old folk songs at the house that I know, you know. But by the time, rich and I, we're kind of like angst ridden in suburban youth.

You know, for some reason, my parents decided to move to the suburbs. Financial reasons, general apathy, now, ready to know, begin the mount of resentment and regret. I don't know all the things the suburbs represent me.

I would say for me, there was a television show. And remember nightfall on USA network back in the early days. I remember .

the name I don't even remember .

that was about yeah would be like IT would come on at midnight and IT would be concert and films like cool, like probably the first time I thought a race ahead or rude boy, the movie about the clash and. Decline of western ization punk things and new wave things.

And I always had an interest in stranger things, you know, and things that weren't Normal or, you know know, mister Robert on three company I whatever, like in this show, they had to show that came on IT two in the morning. And IT was from last Angeles called new wave theater. And that was like huge, huge being a kid in the suburbs in georgia where, you know it's still pretty much like that ban all the people is that ban alama.

They wear like chuck er hats and flanders and I want to beat you up because you have a remote record or something and that that was so this show was like a real beacon of, you know, my mom was like, that is Peter rivers a very interesting character? Peter ivers wealth material service in many incarnations. Tonight there here is forty five grave.

he's. Forty five yeah. So this is what i'm really into. Don balls is the german and forty five grave was in the germs.

Not a happy childhood among them.

No, but no, I don't know. But they definitely made amazing, beautiful, cool, outsider art. And you know, I think something that we have A A hard time understanding in this day in ages art that's made because of the visceral interaction with you and other people that has nothing to do. If i'm going to be a big star, some of the things I think I am me, in fact, I am like that.

One of the last, mean, the black crows, we have to be one of the last bands of the time where we kind of felt this was our, to never truly give in to the other side, you know, I mean, and kind of understand this us verses them idea, you know, I mean, survive as something that's inspiring and something that is, like, I was always interested in counter culture, you know, and anyone again, that's like why the algorithm maybe is in this perfect or or IT never will overtake everything because there's always gonna. The one person is like, i'm going in this way. That's not enough for me.

You know, the deep dive people. And the so we kind of found ourselves in the cross hairs of this kinds of the craps we were in, the craps, the gun club. So and then R M. Comes around their first record chronic town.

And so my dad, my mom and dad had a lot of records, maybe two hundred and fifty records, three hundred records, you know, which is a lot of records back then, blue grass records, left flat neural shrugs records, or most alison records, Jimmy read records, john guitar water. And then they had buffo spring field records and bob dell in records. I mean, that's a big up I made for millions of people, but something as a kid that I knew no other kids would.

You guys want to come home and listen? Records I want to put on, know the times they are a change. Like again, that would be a reason to get back up.

But that kind of stuff catapults us into the punk rock comes along and it's like, oh, it's anyone can do this. You don't have to bees. We will figure this out later. What talent or whatever you I mean like we just want to plugged in and start going ganging and singing horrible things and trying to be offensive mean, because think about now, you go to, you know, now people walk around a dead Kennedy t shirts and it's like, oh, cool. But back then that Kennedy is made, people like the name of that band, the circle jerks like the names of these bands, made people upset, right?

Legitimate rebellion instead of a postering. A lot of what's going on today with dead Kennedys t shirts.

But I mean, I think inevitably anything like that, I mean, eglin poll was that in a literary way in the the tail end of the Victorian age. But now he's just like a thing hanging in some goff kids car, like an air, something you know me, yeah. So things gets swallow up culturally, right, and regenerated as so the dead Kennedys of the greatest logos of all time.

There's always going to be a hearing to, you know what most people are interested in and what's popular, and then people that are trying to mimic what's popular so they can become popular. And then there's always legitimate counter culture where people are just like I don't vie with any of this.

i'm looking for something .

yeah looking for to something that's real, something that's raw. And as I think that's going accelerate with A I music and all this electronic music and again, as you were same before stuff that's sort of created to feed the algorithm, their strategies to become successful rather than just expression that resonates with people.

let the people, yeah, yeah, in a way, I mean, someone took a chat. You know, a band like alan vega, like suicide, like someone, you know, the no wave music in new york in the late seven, someone took a chance and said, yes, I would think about how weird was that. You don't like bringing that into a studio where who was just in here? What can thirty eight special like whatever?

Don't I mean, call thing about early, you know, like the first six pizzle es record, the clash records a little different, but even the dead boys are bands like that, like a lot of those early punk e records and a lot of the post punk records. Those of bands they're not making records trying to sound you know so I can make a record sound like I don't give a fuck or something on my you can do anything now without a button um and and people and I like low fished too, of course. But back then, these bands they're not making low fie records. They're and just like that's a real band in, but with great gear and people who are making like records that we would think are sick like it's correct, right?

And then you .

like this punk people in there, just like you can't turn IT up, although if I we're doing that, you know wasn't .

this sort of rebellion you guys had like a falling out was easy top right when you're on tour? Wasn't part of IT something about corporate?

Yeah, we were always and it's funny, I just saw Billy given a couple of weeks go in london and we've been friends for many years and a massive easy top fan. I mean, what those records, especially the early records, I mean, they just sound delicious. And I mean, I just and when is which one is a real grand day? I don't know one of those records where you open IT, there's like a giant played a mexican food like growing up in lana. Like that was I didn't know what out.

I don't mean like you get that we had barbecue, we had soul food, know we have our own regional colony identity, but to see stuff like that, I was like, I gotto try that, you mean, but no, we, they I don't even know if zie top where they were in their career, if they knew anything that was going on about like these guys, they were the opening band, except for the fact that you know, in the music business at that time, when you're still selling records and you're selling two hundred and fifty thousand records every week or whatever for a couple years. So like that starts be cookie when I was a thing, but they were sponged by a Miller light. And I just got into this thing where you, so we go on stage and do our thing, and there is big million light posters all over the state or whatever, you know.

And I got in my little troublemaker mind, we're the black crows. I mean, we no one gives us money. We don't drink this beer. No one gives us fucked and money.

I'm standing under this sign because I have to be here tonight, but I want eat to know that no fucking and beer company sponsors our music. No one owns us. No one you are of this these naive sort of thing about, I don't know. And we my brother and I talk about IT a lot.

And as we've got an older and especially since we've put the back back together these last few years and have been in a really positive place, in a really good please, I realized that, you know, part of our, part of that, that we were involved in, we believed in like as if rock, the what we feel is really the true essence of rocks and road is like I describe IT is like the movie quest for fire. You know, when they have to keep the fire burning in that little thing and they're going across the swab and they don't want to the end of all to get IT, whatever, that's kind of how we felt in a weird way about everything that was out one minute. You're in control, your kids, we're writing songs.

We're in control of that i'm in control of like this is what we're doing. This is how we look. This is what we are. And then you're in the grown up world and you've sold you've made people tens of millions of dollars. And I hardly as savy business person I never could be, I never would be, wasn't in the cards for me. And so part of our like being hard about IT are being difficult, not being compliant, was trying to, in our minds, keep this pure thing, you know, I mean, and in the way that still part of what we are today.

how old has back then.

in the summer of eighty nine, rich was eighteen. I was twenty three, when we made our first record.

just a Young rebel.

Well, you know, the other thing is, is rock. You know, you remember, rock roll was culturally and socially its place and its importance in its reference was a lot different than today. Yeah, I think one thing I think it's cool about hip hop music is the hip hop stars have taken over the that kind of attitude. yes.

Which I I when I see their fashion and I see, you know I mean, there's lots of hip PS, not one thing, of course, right? And i'm fifty seven. I like what I like. I like old records anyway. But when I hear new things that I like and i'm like OK, so they're singing about drugs, they're thinking about sex and you know, they're singing about, you know, maybe I can really identify with the violence of poverty and still, you know, I may the extreme nature of some of IT, but but is still that's another form of rebellion as well.

Yeah IT is that in a hip hop itself is interesting art form because there's not a push to popfly IT. You know, like the the hard core hip hop artists are very successful. The lyrical are rough, you know, they're very hard aged lyrics, but yet these are the lyrics that you know get millions and millions of views. Can you say millions of sold albums anymore? Because it's really that had to be the weirdest thing to watch the sale of albums evaporates.

not just the sale. You're absolutely correct, not just the sale but the the meeting of a record like you know again, in the big scheme of things, the record business and as old as say, you know the writing or whatever, but in the way that we would listen to music and you would know there was a company that would find talent and put that whole thing, but yeah making a record and saying, okay, where song writers this is what this is our this is our latest work.

This is what we've been working on. This is our craft and this is our talent and our poetry and our this is what we want to say. No, it's like you know an almost like I personally think that it's still an important medium and I i've yet to up on IT. You know I mean, if they said right or you know I mean, what i've always, that's rich and i've always done, we write songs that was one of the only things, again, the way we can could experience the world was through that. Because he, you know, crazy as me, just doesn't talk as much know, not crazy, but I mean different you know, artists I think that .

resonate with a lot of people wish is why there's this resurgence of vinal, right? Like people still want to listen to actual vinal. They still want to see an actual album. Agree, there's a lot of like looking at that is a lot of reminisce from people that like my age and your age that were around when these things were the way you consume music.

I think my record desires twelve old, you know. I mean, like and IT was weird. Maybe that's because my mom, dad had a lot of records, but you know my wife and I we just moved just around the block and L A, and we've pid together seven years, but we kept our records separate.

I don't know, we have thousands and thousands. I just put four thousand records in storage because we don't have space for that. Wow and but but it's funny because no matter what, I see a record store i'm going in and I I you know after how for many years of buying records, I know what i'm looking for and I don't buy records online very much.

I still like, I know I like, I like a kid when I if i've been looking for something and I see IT like, I get a shot of like endorphins I like and really I don't know. Yeah I swear d it's geeky stuff. It's nerdy stuff.

But um but the record store was really important to me as a Young person at a musician because before you could go on your phone or before the algorithm ever like there's a another person that looks cool, I H you know I mean like they have Chelsea boots on or like a cool band t shirt. And the suburbs back in the eighties, IT was IT like the anime if you saw them when you took the chance to be like when you go to their house and look to their records, you know, I mean and it's funny, that's still that way. You know, I mean, I have so many friends in my life, and we are friends because of records, you know, I mean, and it's like my wife and I DJ all the time in L. A. And we go to new york and we Carry .

our records around.

You DJ like, we have my wife's name is so we have the best DJ name ever, the captain in kamal. Um we do yeah concerts and bars and parties and gigs and stuff.

really. When did you start doing that? D.

J, I started like back in the eighties. Everyone needs to take a turn plane records at the pizza add to turn tables called feline in atlanta. We're all the, as my dad referred to them, dir bags and low lives sung out everyone in the behind, of course.

But then in at the early two thousands, a friend of mine that worked at the great record store, other music in new york, my friend Michael, we started doing, these nuts are playing like a lot of weird psychotic, as is the kind of as genre. And we both love those records. And we call that we called goods glor.

And yeah and just when I wasn't doing the black crows, I had this bank called the crb. We were like a little psychiatric folk rock little group that tour around and made a bunch of records, but are so we played two sets at night. So it's kind of like grateful dead model, like very heady, trippy.

So but the crb in especially in california, we always had friends DJ the show, the doors open till after the show and in between sets, playing records. I know she's something we've always done in. My wife used to D, J. Before I met her in stuff.

So you just, just something you enjoy.

I, by the way, if I could make, if I could make money doing IT, I would never do IT. I vike. If me and communications play records, I would be the .

happiest person. Stop performing. No, no.

I love sag. I love performing. I love being in a band, you know, mean, I I love.

It's changed a lot like anything else in travel, in everything, bub. Personally, it's yet to beat the adventure out of me. You, me, you never know. Same thing about why I could go online and buy whatever book or record I want right now. Anything, almost anything you can imagine is available, available. But you know, I know when i'm in denver, i'm going to the certain bookstore and I know that what they have really curated things in there that i'm looking for, I can wander into, you know, you never know you're going to meet, you never know what you're going to eat, who you know I mean the laughs and the it's still a lot of stuff out there for someone like me. A lot of stimuli.

real experiences yeah.

that are good and human yeah.

human experiences yeah, mean, that is what live music and live performance is all about, right? I mean, music is great. Live music is something really special.

I tell, you know, the pandemic was a weird for the world, and that was for artists and musicians. We had, you know, no one is no government bailout for the guy who, you know, playing goods are whatever. But as hard as I was, one of the worst parts of IT to me was not not just being able to do what we do, but not going to see bands.

You I mean, I A label called silver arrow, and we've been doing this for a few years. The black cross records comment on silver different. But i'm always going to see bands.

You know, I mean, we got whether it's the rolling stones or whether we go see a band at a little club in L. A. And i'm always looking for new, you know of things to people that are interesting if I could help them out in their careers.

A lot of IT is with really Young artist. I want to put them in the studio. I want to give them good experience.

I want to give them a great record deal because the it's changed the model. But to do that, you have to go out and get in IT. You know, we always laugh at my is anyone older here tonight that may here? Look, there is, yes, there is a bRicky dude still goes to see.

But yeah, why people don't want to let you go and why should they?

I mean, right now is a great time. I mean, there's a lot of good music going on and there's a lot of bars where we know if someone has IT plays great records, will go listen to them play records, you know. I mean, there's a lot of good record people band. There's a lot of cool allays very alive right now.

No kidding. But like what parts of I mean.

that happens all over, but especially more in downtown and like to the east downtown. I mean, yeah, you have to survive, get into the place. So fucked up.

But that's probably something that adds to the feeling.

you know what he does and it's funny because I had in the stallion c moment about when we were just talking about, look, I don't get me wrong. My parents did the best they could. They're just fucking people too. But part of the other part of adventure and the other part of being interesting in like new wave theater, my mom like they all like like mental patients, just like you you know like great you but was to go to downtown at land and eighties was dangerous to during the crack epidemic IT was a violent place and um and we were you know obviously we were White kids from the suburbs traverser like this urban place to get into these little underground clubs to see these bans um that added to IT you know mean he added yeah and just the atheists know mean I was up I still an obsessive influenced by the beat writers and beat culture and so for me, like, you know, jack carla k isn't writing about the suburbs he's writing about, you know, mexico city. You know mean, all the gregory corso or Allen ginsberg, how these pilots, ts and people are writing about all these experiences that don't seem to be I like a neighborhood where they call the houses of five, four in the door. So a certain angst is cultivated yeah, you know that only the only thing they can satisfied would be something that I felt was greedy and real.

But there's there's something about if you mean I have a bit to downtown and I lay to see music can quite a while. But the last time I went there, I saw their junior and honey, honey, at this very small place with the, you know, maybe there was like two hundred people in there, took my daughter IT was like a late show on a monday night, like a eleven thirty. And here we see in gary card junior, in honey, honey, play a cover of midnight rider.

And IT just has felt so special. No one there. And you survive and you survive and you get here. Where is the car to here?

But you know, it's weird about that. And I get IT and we but haven't I spend a lot of my time reading I read a lot of varied materials. And one thing that comes up is humans are dangerous. Yeah and places where there is a shit, some of them are usually pretty .

grocery daters. Just a numbers thing.

tilly, numbers thing. It's other things yeah, is as well. Sure they're hard for us to deal and look if we're lucky enough to be blocking up right and somehow mentally stable, whatever, right.

But, but, but I think cities have always been dangerous places. This certain Angel room was a dangerous place. Oh, I, I, I was so wild we were just insist ly, and we went to palma for the day and I was pl, i've ever been to police. Yeah, that city is like, I got electric wire that got Spark shooting out of IT. You can get.

you know, my grandfathers from, yeah yeah. When we went to italy, one the most interesting is in this coffee in this if you want um what the most interesting thing is just italy in general is like every time I go there, like maybe I should live like this, like they fucking know how to relax. People know how to relax, like with the way they sit down and eat. No one sit down, eat for forty minutes. You sit down in each for two hours.

Branch people haven't tell them pretty good. Well, yeah. And they have patience, which is know .

what is pathetic is is.

is appetite from the south of friends. You ever see this record? marc.

Marc is famous for pity. It's it's all nedda anian cultures have an ana set base string. Italians have zambo. Greeks have uz arrest. In lebanese people, there's all sorts of them. In the south of france they drink one is a little more sophisticated into a lot more urbs and things in IT.

And they say, you always know in france someone from my sake because they always have a past teeth in their hands like it's a high alcohol, have a lot of sugar, but it's delicious. You'd put IT in ice and delude IT with water and IT makes IT all this kind of milky color, genius. Well.

just you only have a certain amount of time on this planet, and they've chosen to live their time in a more relaxed manner, more community based and just people like to sit around.

Do you think that any of that has to do with embracing a certain a middle, classless or or even lower middle, like they are working even in a blue color way? I think you know, i'm saying where here IT seems that been stripped away from something to be proud of unless it's in a way distortedly proud. You yeah distortion of what that could be, right?

I know what you saying. yeah. Well, in here it's supposed to be your main goal is to get to be the type person that can look down upon that.

Yeah, yeah.

tell IT yeah. Your goal is not to exist in that. And just accept that that this is life. That life is you have money for food, you have money for your house like you.

you're not okay. Media like sit comes from the seventies, whether it's archie bunker or whatever, like there are just people with jobs and even taxi or burning Miller and it's then IT turns into full house where somehow all these people in these kids live in this amazing house and .

everyone has clean cloth like is no struggle .

yeah so yeah no no right. It's not just recognition. I think it's and it's not celebratory. It's just like, look, this this doesn't make the man right what my material things don't make me who I am too. I am how I feel, what I know, what i've learned.

that a big problem, what we were sold in western culture, that the goal is to acquire things into achieve a certain financial status. And then then you'll .

have made IT I get IT pas a grow on trees .

you don't mean to pay for. Is that mean .

just you know about that though when we were kids and I get like I said, I made the choice in my life, mom and dad, we weren't you know, we they were middle class people, but I made the choice. When I said i'm not going to university, i'm gonna be in a bay on my dead that was like the last dollar I ever saw, not even like a, you know what I mean and but I made that choice. That choice wasn't made for me, right? main.

And within two years, among the cover rolling stone magazine, they were fucking around. You don't like selling millions of records. I I get that i'm it's not lost on me, but IT gets back to where we started talking about.

There will always be as a part of me. This is making music because it's really maybe the only place where i'm truly free. Mean, I have the freedom you.

It's funny. I tell the story. We were on sand night live two times. The second time was in on our second album, southern harmony.

We went on the show was the number one rack album in in america, the debt number one. Our new single was the song called sometimes salvi ent. We're going to play that, and we're going to play one of our big hit records.

And at the time I was called remedy, and we had just written this so called non fiction, and I was like, let's play non fiction and it's funny because it's different. Is my brother and Richard I yeah fuck you. You know, like it's cool song.

The guy he will ever with the music guy is like, you can do that. And I was like, well, I mean, we can do what we want. I think.

There was mag, as we were smoking weed in the dress and like to IT john blue od in the bed through what you fucked and care. Call the cops. Yeah, I told you. Call the cops. We get arrested in side out life for smoke a way to be bigger than than this.

But the guy, now that i'm older, I realized I was just totally being just horrible like kid but he goes, you're making a big mistake not playing this single and I said, okay, well, here's the deal. You're on this show next week with some other fucking in band and then the next week after that and then the next week after that, where this is my band so let me make the mistake. I'm not gonna you tell us what to do and if it's a mistake, then we will fucking and eat IT.

Well, we and i'm still here. And was he? Well.

it's funny.

Something told me he has. I forget that I read IT him once before. He did not like our attitude.

He he was on a podcast about sria. I was something and said we were the worst people he ever doubt with in his entire career. And I was like, thank you.

That the worst how?

Because you just didn't yeah, yeah, we didn't do what he wanted.

That's not what you're just want to do with artists.

especially when you're Young and you're still like the fire is like so intense, always the problem .

with the executive mindsets versus artistic minds. That's right. And some producer character who just wants everything to go according to this very specific plan they have laid out and you trying to take an artist and at first of all just try and take an artist and making them sing once on is kind of crazy, right?

Yeah I mean, there's I mean, I think we see that now yeah now we see people like i'll do IT, i'll do IT you know said someone who's ready to jump up and do anything and I think that's been a part of show is but that's kind of what we were saying before. I think the talent show thing that you know that vote for me, right? You know when no one was voting for us, we were unable table. And that was part of the reason that we were drawn to these characters in these people and these other outsiders and these other whatever kind of spectrum we're on or whatever that's a different that what we were like, you know, music just represented everything anti vote for me.

But did you feel weird to transcends that and become mainstream? Massive yd, what the position has to be so strange you're these rebels. And then all the sudden you're the number one fucking band in the world.

And then, yeah, and it's IT was tough. IT was maybe tougher for me because I was more boots on the ground in the scene and with people. And now is like, especially the eighties in atlantic.

IT was like. Fuck major, anyone signs with a major label. Man fucked up, you know, yeah know, like power to the people and whatever you like, M T V thirty times today. But to I fuck toys, to commercials snapped or whatever you need.

So and it's weird because our politics are so in line with so many of the like the alternative politics of music, the way you know that would late that grunge or whatever you know. So i'm the same age as all of the grunge bands, but I don't exist in the nineties in the same way. But you know, we were doing something.

But IT is funny like, you know, people say well, because, you know, fucking label is signing a kirk bain today. But as in many fact, curt and our generation of people, we were talking about compliance and defines you're making a mistake. Fuck IT.

It's my mistake to make. It's my band. It's my art.

And people met, we met and my kind of generate. It's not about being old now. I think they're so much compliance. Oh, okay, but I want to cause any travel at the record later.

This is what we're all distorted right now with social media and all the different avenues for people to get attention and to get famous. It's so easy. I actually say it's easy because it's rare but common. So it's like it's more it's it's more highlighted which way you can go to achieve success. But do you remember that famous time where circo bain in navona we're playing and they were forcing them to lip sink? Ah yeah and so what I could do, do you start reading out of a book or something like that like much of a wild things?

Yeah, yeah, yeah, of course. I mean.

see, you could find that, janie.

because it's kind of hilarious. A yeah.

I know what, nobody did that at the time, and they were telling them, none know you can't play live here here. That is perfect set to perform. The recent signing smells like teen spirit, the british music chart tovie program top of the pops time to show the policy requiring artists to sign live vocals over prerecorded backtracks.

As you would expect, kiro bay's bandmates would not let this go without having some fun. So they started fucking around in the middle of song. The road result was, and still when the greatest middle fingers to lie performance is ever, the band literally made its own thread. Video.

yeah makes yeah because you've got to sing the live vocal over the chat.

don't work around and coming up with new great yeah.

I mean, we loved the replacements. You know, that was like a, and like there being on sad life was a disaster. But we thought that our ban, you know, remember every fucking person that we knew in atlantic that saturday night that the replacement came on image and TV on side life.

We all were at parties in watching IT and getting completely shit face, watching they like shaved their eyebrows off. And should we're rolling around and change clothes? People were like, dear, if we were like, yeah sharing IT on like that, how you that's IT isn't that part of one of the goals is to be that big pay in the ass to the and who are you being a painting as to but some authority, right?

Something that says you can do that or this is the way he goes and that changes, you know. But I think as in as a youth, that's definitely something i'm not feeling with a lot of bands. I mean, I think it's there in like the pumpkin and milton stuff like that. But but they're not they are not getting access to that in Green day. Still that way.

the carrot is still dangled right in front. Everybody's faces so close. Now you a special with people that make IT independently through youtube and tiktok and allows the different venues, there's just so many different ways that someone could become massively successful.

Now I see this is where I become the time traveller. I am the last injury yeah, I get that. I find I don't you know, I think a guy smashing is nuts on a rail on escape board.

Funny as any, but i've seen yeah, it's not like what I mean it's not like Steve cook getters of the you don't made like craft and like sub text in my god, this other weird liberal stuff with common or whatever I just do, I will never I guess I just me as well the things that the cinema that I enjoy looks I read the records that I listened to. There is all of them. If there is one thing in common, there's a level of craft.

There's is a difference team have is a different in having a fine meal at a very nice restaurant versus eating garbage yeah eating tasty garbage and tiktok is tasty garbage.

Absolutely ve never thought about .

that for you. And you can put IT down and you keep going to IT and you overconsuming.

And at least when you do, when it's just visual, you don't get a big stain on your shirt.

You to stain, I think you get in your brain. Ah, I really do. I do. I think it's so much of what's going on today, like even if I just waste ten minutes growing through tiktok when it's over, I just feel like confused, what am I doing? Like, what am my fun?

But I don't have. I never had, I never did any of that.

I facebook, twitter, nothing.

I mean, the band has one, I guess, but it's perfect. But I I don't personally good. I never tweet or any of good for you. And it's funny, my phone like i'm still this way you wanted my best friends like the three or four people in the world that like i'm super super the closest people we talk .

on the phone oh yeah .

like I love talking about hours yeah about whatever so it's I I get IT but I don't i'm one of those older what you developed .

in a different time this time fucked in bizarre.

I can't imagine spending your life grown as people spending all of their time playing video games.

That's the real thing.

at least that's exciting .

IT is that.

yeah, video games a now some .

video games are so immersive men, you have three sound and incredible graphics running through cord doors and people are chasing you is very exciting IT IT hits all of your doberman receptors and IT fires. Yup, I mean, video games are pretty fucked and amazing now, but it's just the world that we're living in today is it's not designed for human beings, designed to capture human beings, capture your attention. It's not it's not a like if if you you're spending your time going from a coffee shop to a restaurant to a bookstore to a record .

store to a live human .

experiences, human experiences, but if you spending your time arguing with people on twitter all day like nothing is more depressing to me than seeing old rock stars argue about politics on twitter IT is so god dim depressing watching rockstars virtue signal and attacking people personally for having differing political beliefs like and and then looking at their timeline and realizing these poor fox are addicted to the shit they're doing this five.

six hours every day. Get off my.

it's get off my.

get off.

It's fucking rock stars. So like, good lord, man, do you have friends? Like, get out, you know the house.

You know, it's funny. We were gone for three months. We did the states on this latest tour.

We play a lot of new songs from our latest record. IT was amazing and then we finished in europe. My wife and I stayed in sisterly and went back to london at the end.

And i've been doing that for thirty five years of that. You nineteen, nineteen ninety first time I go to europe and it's still like, I don't care. Thirty five years to a lot of shows, I don't care.

I wake up and I am tired. And we have friends all over the place, which is a beautiful thing, friends in amy, friends in paris, friends in london, friends in midd, friends in this, know, germany, we were. But where we're constantly out doing, you know I mean, there's no way we're not heading the town in any town in finding what IT has that makes maybe a unique or special, whether that's taste.

Yes, what I mean IT IT sounds silly. But like I said before, it's advent. They're still adventure in the world and i'm not talking about jumping out of an airplane adventure yeah .

know that just stimulate I I think is so it's cognitive nutrition. I think it's actually good for you experience different cultures and see how people .

hang out and see the restaurants and see style at a little different.

do know a different way, but if flavors your understanding of human beings.

that's like my very, very special place. The thing that I love, almost more than any other thing.

is to make a really.

i've been, I was lucky ough to have a dear friend introduced ed me to to make a own thirty years ago. And I have friends there, and I have a whole life there that has nothing to do with anything other than jamaa shit. And I go to the country and like, we like, like a country kind of live there. You know about ocean and no resorts.

you know the food desk.

but amazon mazing food, jamaa food so .

delicious.

and you have to get out there and eat. And they have not like anything else. You know, the fruits there, the vegetable les there, the seafood and and you know they say in jamaica that the a go in jamaica only has one bad day, where.

Is not even the whole bad day, a quick moment, one bad moment.

And that's a one bad moment in the rest we're all .

happy with yeah the rest is eat. Yeah that's one of things I loved about Anthony y. bordin. show. You know that he would go and really immerse himself in these cultures and eat their food and hang out with their shafts and hang out with the people and .

get tored know someone would take on a tour around the town and know happened .

sometimes .

he would be tired in hangover or yeah and yes time but ah but I don't I I get and everyone has a tough thing, but I might get OK if you enjoy .

what being tired on that bad if you enjoy doing is so what just get up, have a coffee.

Let's go and bulshed you not if for some reason I had to like, get a quick twenty twenty five years, I could curl up right there and do IT and you won't even know I was here. I believe you like expert, that's thirty five years of vega on the road, knowing how to power. Now I got to, I got to go. I to like and like in an intersection, like we going around with my pants down by my ankles.

I ve learned to sleep instantly on planes, a plan, almost always on alcohol.

Me too, I know every single person i'm travel with you because she's like.

do you leave that quick?

I want to make a dog in my brought when my wife and I were married in jako and we have a little street dog that we brought back oh, that's cool. Bammy, long face. yeah. And bammy, she's thirty five pounds, but I can even sleep. Imagine making street dog on my life.

So jamaica spotters and and .

they just got hit very hard with this hurricane. So it's my friends are OK and stuff there. Everyone's really shook up over in jumaa scary.

And it's been a bad.

they having had something like that since two thousand and seven.

And this was worse. I saw a life footage of IT, some live cell phone photos of IT. It's just unless you've experiences that live when you've were around the sky, in the sky becomes an angry monster and everywhere around you dangerous and the winds one hundred and twenty miles an hour and just, it's so humbling.

I ve never I mean, I was in a toronto in atlantic the early seven days and that was, man. I was pretty too Young to be like traumatize. But I remember my feeling, my parents trauma about this thing going over a house .

or whatever I can.

Terrifying ship man. When I was over, though, when you're a kid, I was like, amazing. Like, like the whole world was one big pine sap jungle jam.

I mean, for weeks because you're just climbing in all the fAllen trees and my dad had some old pony act and that thing was like A U in the car, some of pentre smash. wow. So IT was like a surrealist thing too as a kid, you know like, wow, everything is been shaking up.

Yeah, it's also a lesson in the temporary nature of things. You can look out, and this is my lawn. That's where the car is.

park. This is how things are. And then all sudden, the skies, like, not today, pitch, throw a tree through your fucking in house.

What was that commercial? The ties of mother earth gets angry. And I remember that I was a like, shampoo or something that was like how there was a catch.

And they would be like, oh yeah, I remember that I like my shape poor. But but it's true. You know, I mean, you I have to deal, I mean, shit truck.

Well, Katrina is still something like, you know, I love new and new orleans is one of the most special cities in the world, and it's still amazing. It's still viBrant, dynamic, alive. But I think the scars of that place is still there. I mean, that was devastating.

brutal. Yeah, unbelievably brutal. I mean, when hurricane hit places and devastate that, IT takes decades for them to recover, especially without aid. And then sometimes it's like the people that are there, they just don't want to do IT anymore.

It's like when you realize you're in a place that this happens and other places where this doesn't happen, you just get the fuck out, you know. But there's a humbling of being attached to nature in that way that I think, like I grew up in boston. And there's something to the people that live up there that understand that every winter it's gonna get so cold you could die outside. That's that's a reality that no one in L. A experiences because in L A is like earthquakes.

e floods, zombie pocalypse.

I get a little bit of that you can to get away from that. This it's not going to overcome.

You can build a very high fence and have the state of the art security system.

The fires are wild. I was a book three times living in ali because we were in the valley, yeah, yeah, three separate times the last time. The two houses across the street, from my housework to the ground, IT was wild.

It's just wild going through your own own neighbor. D see, just house after house. That was four houses in our neighbor. D that were .

we were in marine county, north in california and out in a place cut, organize and once this is four, five summer ago and we just, you know, kept shit the car guitar, you know, there's one guitar. I just can't live without some picture. We just both our cars failed because you're no ash is following in the .

year scary? Well, it's when IT goes bad. IT goes real bad. I was filming fear factor once in IT was about hour half away from mali. And the fires get so bad we had to stop shooting, drive home and on the way home, we were off the five freeway. On the way home, the entire right side of the highway for an hour was in flames, like, completely in flames.

Like I load the rings, move, like you're waiting for demons to ride horses over the top of the mountain IT IT there's something about those those kind of scenes. It's like IT puts you back and check that. Like, hey, man, like maybe the things you're concentrating on aren't all that .

important for real. I think IT also touches us in our animalistic DNA of like still being that person, you know, these people against for fire, being these people who are really not just completely immersed in their environment as well for survival and sustainable and everything. Yeah, did IT still like in the way I guess you know there's an instinctive thing in those moments that that has to be the exact same chemical al reaction in every human being in any expanse of time that we've been like this.

You, yeah, when we were insist ly, where are I guess there was an .

eruption there. Cents.

this one. That's right, I was seeing on the news but when we were there this we were um at near this one island that had a constant eruption at night time. You can see the red at the top of the mountain, just a little bit of red like bubble and up off the top of the mountain.

fucking cool. I've never really got close to something like that. Like you, have you ever .

done the tour in hawaii? We fly over .

in helicopter. Hawaii.

wild. The big iron is wild because it's growing every year, because the law is constantly flowing into the ocean. You could literally watch the island expand in real time, and you fly over in helicopter. So you fly over, you looking down at the love of pouring out of the earth is this heady mount, and not look at that.

Isn't that widman not .

to be confused? regulatory. Yes, sicilians think of themselves very differently.

Luck up. Beautiful, that is. man. Ka, that's so fucking cool. We visit a pump too.

I did that as a kid and still one of the coolest. But I was like, you know, it's funny. I like back you know they have like up the streets. They'll have like the fountain at the end of the street or whatever the water would come and you could see like where people lean their hand.

There's like an intention for the of people leaning the simper water yeah, I just put my hand on that as a kid, just like I I almost couldn't stop like thinking about that. I do that all the time. I you know I do that with my kids and i'm like fucking around, like shake the hand.

I should chock berries and bodies and yeah, little, I should little richer that joanne hooker, you know, they are all join y hooker. I did. wow.

That's a good. I love to me.

IT was, his handshake was like, amazing. I was just like a, he touched my hand was just like, like a cloud. IT was the softish like pillow. I was like, wow. And IT was early, you know, early days we had lined the memphis blues festival and he went on before us and I was like, I just don't think that's right. I know is a lot of records, but that's .

it's crazy. Yeah, he was as cool IT gets. That's amazing, man. He ever met anybody that just like, can you believe him talking this person?

Yes, but one time I was doctor jay, I was that of party and vagus. This is back in the midi ties and V, H. One thing or something, and I was standing outside, was at the hard rock. And this is the guy's named Steve wan who wants the thing that .

you or or .

something .

you own a bunch of .

that yeah and was thirty years ago and I was there and he was, I go and crazy never meant july is serving and I was, I made, I was. I didn't. I'd love dc j so much growing up, he enjoys government, my hero, as I played basketball and I was like, he was so cool, you know, he was, hey, nice to meet you.

I was just, I was like, a little kid. I just couldn't believe that I met doctor J, I should doctor jay. I got to throw him there too.

wow. And the other one would be robbert open. The director met robbert at at a party.

I was at a party I like, I got to tell of for saatchi party in london. And there are a bunch of famous people there. We, everyone SAT down at a table and, you know, a different things.

And he was, I was just like, here I was with ritti grand. They were making gosford park retreat grand. Also, I was impressed to see in me because of the film with me, and I is one of my favorite movies of all time.

And there's with name like areas, I mean, it's Richard, but but there's bob altman who is, you know, lord of my imagination and one of the best film, my favorite film, some of my favor films of all time. And so after when the dinner kind of life is less, whatever people are up talking to other people, I just go over to him. I'm like, fucker.

I'm just I would be a little bit timid or shy and situation and I would never think anyone. I still, to this day, never imagine anyone knows who I am, what I do or whatever. It's a good way to go through life.

Yeah and yeah. And then you find out most people don't know. You are given for what I go over. And I I introduced myself, and I instantly recognized a smell's like weed like he's going to roach in this back or something and I like, but you hold IT yeah you wanted get down I was like, yeah so IT feels out of joint and like we're sitting there and we're just talking about weed and you know it's like, it's hard to get I get this from california and I was like, I know we spoke to join and talk a little bit about music and jazz and london and that was kind of in he was I going to come by the office and i'd never took him up on IT like the production office just because I just I felt out of my depth, you know, I mean, I should have but that that was like one of those things I will always remember.

It's interesting when you meet the people that are heroes to you and they're just document beings. They're just Normal yeah and then you realize like pressing your case, like you've become that to other people and then some kid will come up to you Christina yeah fucked in Normal person just a person but to them you you're the black rose. You're not a Normal person. You you're the fuck in god it's weird. You're an inaccessible like platter of society that very few people ever problem I think music .

gets a part of that as well yeah you know like you said, I mean and I you know there will always be I don't know there. I think that there is a connection in in cart great. You know where does the idea come from?

I mean, I think there's people who can manipulate that and make i'm going to make a pop song and it's gonna sound like this and not saying that is not special that good, but then I think there's other things that there's i'm not using IT in a Christian way, whatever, but there's a divine Spark of something that happens or whatever drops in your lap. Imagination was the muse. Know the muse is real.

the use is real. I think this is real too.

And the one thing that I I do believe about them use, and I consider them use a female present a female. Most do dynamic. yeah. And I feel that did the news, at least my the news that I fit all is of is a very jealous thing. And I don't mean that is like IT is a possessive way or set anything weird.

But just like the second your devotion is turned somewhere else, the muse could leave you that might be a superstitious as throwing salt, no over your shoulder, whatever. But I honestly believe that. And IT makes IT difficult in life, because life isn't just the muse.

Life isn't just the dream world that I live, my imagination. The ideas have to come from somewhere. It's not just singing and dancing, and you have to have ideas.

What is this? You know, for me, i've always had to be involved with. Every aspect alone covers the stage design, the fucking in lemon.

Everything has to fit into a world that I can feel like I want to inhabit. You know, something that's comfortable and interesting. Yeah and I think if you removed so it's not just the musical part of the music, the whole thing. And I think if you're like, you know, i'm get i'm not if my reference for that goes away and even in the slightest, I feel that he will turn her back on me forever and you'll have nothing, no more poetry, no more music. You probably.

right, because let's assume the use is real. The use, the muse would probably reserve its greatest inspiration for its most devoted followers.

I think so. Yeah.

the most of our followers are, the ones are gonna adhering to a rural sit in front of the computer, the notepad, or heavy, right. And just like.

I could never ever write lyrics on off screen, I could never.

do you like them on paper?

Like, does anybody .

write lyrics on screens?

I think, yeah.

I think like a lot of hair pop.

people on their phones, a lot of people who were the phone .

things convenient. I transfer all my notes phones because in occasion, and I write something on the one, the best thing about the phone, honestly, is like, sometimes I have an idea. Maybe I ve had a couple of cocktails to IT, which is like, you know, memory is slippy.

When you are drinking with friends and you're having a good type, you have an idea. I just like, run into a bathroom stall. I hit the voice require and just .

say that I do that too. I did the voice or quarter as well for like I pluck around a guitar, get a little something that I like um or when rich and I are writing songs too, like if we're not but you know i've never had a home studio. I've never wanted that really.

I never want to go to a place.

I want to go to place and I like a part of my thing is I like. Everyone's contribution no right? Um I mean in the black crows, rich and I write the songs so but the contributions can be musical or the product or IT could be anything right. I mean sometimes it's the engineer and the producer in the band and .

it's the vibe .

of those people being and it's all of that circulating and percussion and making something everyone in on IT, you know, I mean, like an old submarine movie, like your big depth charged and everyone has a job to do, 所以 you don't die， right? You know but I think that's important for for me. You know like I love I mean, prince is one of my music. I mean, there's an art you made that maybe prince was a bad as smoothe fucker of all time.

Definite argument.

I mean, because there's people who can write, there's people who can play, there's people who can produce and record, and there's people who can dance and saying and perform. That guy did IT all at its an ultimate level.

every musical instrument. Yeah, yeah. He was insane. He was so good and he was so different. Remember when the first album came out is just that picture of him with the shut off with look is hair, you know, and you hear the songs you like, wow.

This guys out there a second record, first, first, first called for you and there's a picture kind of like it's .

is for you, is that one was shot me off?

No, that's later. Okay, for you. The first thing is soft and wet, which is before jackie o.

IT has to be something. And I only laugh because I was know about the time in the super. I've lived in atlanta.

I'm obsessed with black radio at the time. Only listen to v one or three FM atlantic. My first concert is slave and cool in the gang and sky at the omni. I'm going to see the time the ty six SOS light side camo.

No.

yeah, I was on the best concerts of every seen at that, you know, at that time in my life, and only listing that radio. So the first print single comes out and it's soften, went great, then, then, then, like funny and cool, the little kind of disco breakdown in the middle and hit the and I like, but I didn't really know what soft wet was like this like a .

watch clock that he left in .

the that what is this yeah so I never saw the. And IT was fantastic. He was amazing.

He was in a residence. He wants a house of blues and vegas. But IT was like, really late at night. I had to do something in the morning, and I passed on going to this .

dead kill myself yeah, because he was the concert and go play another eight hours or yeah.

but he was going up really late. It's like he was after mid night and was like, I got, should have to do tomorrow. I can do this. I can be that tired to this day, like park.

You know, it's funny. The other person I met that I was that put me very much at is, but when I first said hello, that I was totally free. That was George Jones. Wow, at the rain authorities after Jenny cash passed away.

It's like, mean, jesus, the sixteen I was .

like was I got ushered into this dressing room was a guest. Chris, Chris office was there was that, you know, I was amazed to meet him. And but like, can charge channel bosoms right there.

And i've end up talking to him and he was really, really sweet. And I wanted to talk about canada city chiefs. He loved chiefs and about used to watch football all back then.

And but I will always remember, so they were, he was taking over for johna cash singing. I think it's john y catched me. Maybe I was waiting, but I I don't know the song that great.

The high women I was women and yeah and he was the dam builder on the columbia forever, whatever. But he can look at the little land. I'm a dam builder because like me is like this I don't take my face. I'm a damn der every just kept thought I was so funny and I was like, what amazing, you know, that I got to be in there.

But the other funny part of that is they were like, Chris, we take a picture with George and Chris and I am like, i'm getting my bucket picture taken with George Jones and Christmas office that this is that like cool lest thing. And I like in dle is a cool day ever. And then the door opens and my x life was there to, but then the door opens and algal gets in the picture and ruins IT. I get out of the picture.

Who did you get in there and talking about the climate?

Yeah, yeah. That was his initial climate thing. But I what's talk about your wife telling people what they can listen to, what whatever, like, how to hear? Who are you self, right?

Yeah, people forget about that. SHE was want to made, well, actually helped albums. Because when they .

put those warning label.

warning label.

one a warning. R, N, you guys are really seriously upset about the ban was but I mean, like you like.

yeah, it's really ridiculous now in high insight. But I remember I know I was in high school. The time was a big thing.

What they're telling you, what to do again, you know, mean and a lot of IT was racist.

You oh was like, I guess was at a high school. I was like when rap music was really starting to emerge and .

those lyrics were so shocking.

Like early ict ice.

I mean, that happened with jack berry that the initial phase, the cosmic fucking blood and brims, the rock and roll, is in pretty quickly when IT starts. And then turn into that the palanka pat and sort of style until the, until the beatles really come back around you. You have lots of cool in between there, but they're there.

They're small. But it's interesting like that we're things come in waves. They come in waves of great artists for .

whatever reason. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, I think I mean, I mean, at least if you look at like when I look at my age people, we were just we were close enough to the beetles and close enough to the sex pistols and close, you know, I mean, and the stones and zipline that hits long gone for a lot of Younger people know time as time moves on. Yeah, I have to ask .

your question because before I forget, did rick rubin try to get you guys to change the naming your band? yes. And did he really try to get you to change the name with the band to the K, K, K. That he county crows?

I know that the king of yoga, whenever the fucker selling whatever you know, whatever is you know but under that beard that that guy and it's funny because good for recall and whenever he can do whatever he want, I know know he has very little, but he didn't say that's that's a true story. Well, so and by the way, I was on imaginably offensive unmainied. Why would you say that to us .

conversation? How does that happen?

Because I think, well, we were we were called mister cross garden is a book took like a children's book from like the twenties called mister cross garden with an e so it's a name. He was mister crow and we were kind of, you know into like psychotic, you know, like I was our way that was the name of our band. So when we made shake money maker, two years have gone by since we've first were mister cross garden and now we don't sound like that.

And and George chu is our producer and our A N R. Guy in our lifetime to the to the music vision, to the world who signed us and stuff. He was like, we need, you know, got to change your name so there was a little bit of time where before we said we'll be the black crows and that's when rick and interjected that that's what he would because we're southern and aren't all southern people. Fear driven, ignorant bigots aren't isn't every one of them.

But he didn't say that that way.

right? So how would be cool and controversial? I it's rise. yeah. So and I how did he bring IT up? Like, I think this is a cool ear from cob, cob county. See, we're not from there, but my, we're from atlantic, by the way, look and hard to get IT to change wikipedia. They're like worth that be in rich of borne and maria where we're from a landa, georgia, you know third generation at lands and I was like my grandfather was born in the nineteen o six, you know I mean, so it's hard to get that he had changed but he was like, also, you live in cob county, C, O, B, B. What you should change IT to cob county closed and put them all keys and we were like, it's that's so fail and disgusting.

It's also is such a crazy idea to not have light context to IT just to imagine that you're going to call a ban the K, K, K. Like what of cop counting crows actually .

sounds cool. What sees, though.

you know, was the coptic. Ty, C, C, C. No problems. Great name. Nothing wrong with that. You probably want to achieve the exact same success of the black rose.

but I don't know, because the pointed me and the the armchair cultus would believe that that the only way we got we achieved what we hieing became, what we became is because of the way, some reason also leaving the e and IT made. That was the one thing that I said we would do so, you know. And by the way, leaving the e and IT was also great. And it's still great to this day when where someone request something or want something from you and they missed by the day with the body like, no, that no.

you going to looked.

There are little .

I just can't imagine that conversation. Someone.

I can imagine that rick is a friend.

Man, you know, for clarity.

I don't hate regroup in .

or anything he did. Fascinating guy. I means a very interesting thinker. And I can imagine this idea intrusively embedding itself in his mind and then coming out of his mouth. I just can't see.

be honest, you know, I found a lot of when, especially in this, you know when our first record came out and you know we're on tour and we're working that record and i'm the one who has to get up in the morning. And okay, so we're planned. We're in clever in our plane since and at I have to go to ten radio stations in clive an and since and adi and do the hand shaking and the talking and the know sell sell the band.

I meet all the like local promo people who know that they pick you up and stuff. And most everyone was really super cool. They would be the people that could get drugs and pay for drinks and then yeah you know and but wow, I would be driving in the car with some of these guys and they would be like be tough, like talking down to me like you don't know me just because i'm southern and i'm a musician doesn't mean that you know, talking down me like i'm stupid or something .

I .

all you know mean yeah like just kind of patronizing me or thinking that everyone like to work not from IT land of georgia yeah you don't mean you don't know what books I read, you don't know what i'm in to, you don't know anything about me what?

This always been a deep history of prejudice about people, what they would call the fly, or states that the arrogance of new york, last Angeles.

and you know, you to fly with people to talk IT. To me, even worse.

we know some people that like accept chicago a little bit and mothers cities, detroit a little bit, but the reality was IT was about the costs, and everything in between was bulls shit.

as if everyone in rochester, new york has like A P. H. D. In french literature.

By the way, that used to be kind of true when you will go on the road. Not true. But you would know is a market difference in the warehouse. If you're talking about anything out of the ordinary, the awareness of people's what what they knew in certain cities, in certain places in the country .

versus what they new in los Angeles yeah I mean.

that something yeah, I figured I didn't know as much, but I think that changed with the internet.

Yeah, everyone has fucking reference.

And oo you know you where are you go there's fucked in people that get that get IT.

Remember when bill hacks used to look at the I don't think go yeah yeah a lot of people still have got up to build.

He was great. I mean, he's called his flying saucer tour because he we do not go to places where flying saucers were dead. We're little out of the ways.

What's that record called rant and sea minor something or don't member? I know. I mean, what I still put that on, and it's just fantastic .

believably change, company change, made people wanted become profound. IT was a changed comedy from just a bunch of stuff to laugh at to stuff that made you think about IT after you're done laughing.

I think George carlin had that as for .

sure yeah for sure in a different way. But you know, hicks is more psychic lic inspired .

and is more thing in him that, for lack of another description, I think that gave him that kind of.

yes, it's the right way describe. But I think I had a change. See him live a bunch times. Luckily.

looking away, he understood what, you know, what a great underground band means to somewhere.

Oh yeah, yeah. Yes, exactly. He was an artist who was an artist that was also a comedian.

No, he wasn't trying to conform to work. Whatever the stereotypical this is, the guy is gna get a hit. Calm act is going to create yeah. But there's not a lot of is IT worth.

is IT come worth .

that doesn't .

exist anymore? no. But I mean, for that.

that was the golden carrot. IT was thing that they are held over our heads. If you develop an act can be converted into a sitcom. All the sudden your tim Allen and you have fifty million doors in the back, or your Jerry sign field, or your bread bottle, or your rose and bar, there was like a few those people. Yeah, and there is a bunch of people that had managed to some more obsequious shows that people forgot about, but they made a lot of money as well. And IT was this thing that if you could get on a sit com and then also hear the king queens like my friend Kevin James, that was his thing, right? And and that's how got through IT and and it's that that was the magic portal, the magic portal to wealth and IT also fucked up a lot of people's acts because the result yeah .

you know you're kind of stuck in sense yeah and .

now you .

know the things that you want to.

they self sensor. This is the I know some of the great comics of like the nineties that are ruined because they self sense now because they they sort of develop this act for television, and they went there, we're on television, and they got all that TV money. They wanted to keep IT coming in. So they never really branched out into more offensive subject matter.

or even more provoke, I think, a reference in some ways, and let everyone else will judge what that is.

And yeah but it's just the problem is never to make everybody happy. And now way more people have an opinion they can express like because of social media, like everyone can express their opinion. It's not as simple as you.

You hope to get the favor of a reviewer like someone who's cool, really like bands comes to see all bobs here, this guys fucking and calls. He's going to review our show and you like you kind of trusted bob. That was a good guy.

He really loved music, wasn't trying to tear things down. Those guys don't exist anymore. Yeah, yeah. You know, now, now, whatever one's trying to do, get people on social media to like them and or not be mad of them. So when they put out a special.

you see.

yes, you see this.

which as the role the artist sometimes is to make your audience matter. You to chAllenge that? Yes, I mean, not.

You don't be in a way like, god, how many things in life like that I didn't like at the time that I finally found my way through later? And like all, thank you. You know I mean, like you, of course, that's the natural.

of course.

progression. It's the natural. And by the way, not everything is supposed to be like you were saying. And I guess that's where we are with this social media. Nothing can have that sort of mistake around IT anymore because it's forcing too much out of someone. You're expecting too much from someone to either follow you and or understand and get IT or accepted, right?

yes. Well, let's just a foolish pursuit, the pursuit of other people who you don't even know their love and attention and you'll move and change and adapt whatever you're trying to produce in order to gain their favor. That's a fuck in falling. That's such as a foolish way of interacting with human beings. And whatever you create .

is not as completely and you can see where you know personally think you're starting to see culturally where that hollow ones and that falsely isn't helping.

but it's definitely helping. It's it's pushing us over the edge. Yeah, it's not good. You need experiences from people where when they resonate these, when they put out these works, whether it's a book or music or anything, this thing represents their soul and their perspective and their actual, the this, the thing you've created, not a thing they're doing so they hope you like IT.

Not a thing they're doing so they hope you don't get mad, not a thing they're doing with you higher lights, social issues that people come to. Virtuous person. Yeah, yeah. It's not it's funny .

when you say that the virtuous part of IT, that's funny too because you know especially like, you know the last your place is full of pictures of things. People who have been arrested.

yes.

on my work shop. And it's like in a way, in a counter culture way, whether it's a poet and musician and a jazz silan, anyone you know, Robert mitchum know know Robert mitchum cooler than current Douglas because he got busted for smoking pot. Okay, a Robert mitch cooler than new court Douglas um but the outsider in culture you know mean the loser and the outsider are other themes that we do not celebrate as much. And i'm not talking about some fabricated pop star who pouts and there's like look out dark you know I mean that that's not what i'm talking about and that's always the again, show and corporate things. You can manipulate these kind of archetypes, yes, but can put them in the design of john specific things that they want because they know .

that's that's formulating a rebel .

is so gross yeah ah oh my god.

a formulated rebel, a discontinuous formulated rebel yeah I mean.

you see them.

but I think they sort of make you really appreciate people that are true artist. The people that are IT really is just their expressions. And they are trying to create that they hope people enjoy. I mean.

it's funny because that you know, more than ever, not just for the fact of I really went had to go through certain things to comment full circle with my career and my brother and what the black rose mean in my life, a lot of things you, a lot of IT starting with with my wife coming and stuff. But one of the things that that that keeps me excited.

And one of the main things that I love is I know that we're in colossal fashion or naive or any anything you want IT doesn't matter IT. But we were talking about that stupid flame idea, this purity. But I know when we go out on tour and we write songs, make records, play concerts, it's something that is raw still in there.

We're not in our monitors. We don't there's no computer on our state, you know mean, we don't these fucking bans cancel show because their laptop didn't work. I will marry you by your mom council shows because .

the laptop has happened is fucking hilarious and there's bands .

are up there not even playing and they press a button and they are up, which just fine, like whatever you want to do to get over. I get that again. I was born the same year the beetles made revolver.

I get that I don't think. But think about that in my daughters lifetime, the beetles will be a fucking one hundred years old. The record will be dito sixty four, one hundred years ago. That's crazy.

So crazy. You didn't you think about that way? Because then I was a kid. I was just a decade or two ago.

well, in the same decade between the beatles. If that hundred years was the end of the the civil war and the beast that it's wired, it's weird thing to look at time that way.

but really puts into perspective because we look at everything through this lens of a finite lifespan of one hundred years. If you're lucky, we look at everything like this is this is like a long time, but it's not a long time.

So what I did you do this .

joke about that the constitution market was found in seven hundred and seventy six. I go, people live to be a hundred. That's three people ago.

Three people ago they started this like it's nothing. It's so new, everything so new. Civilization itself oh my god, it's so ancient is IT really?

It's not. I mean, you're talking about the three thousand years.

the big scope .

of things and and I think historically and because of science and things, you know, it's like that idea. Well, this was the bronze ave. IT started on thursday and but then they find corpse and the ice and the talian apps.

And the guy has a brand sort and he's two thousand years before they thought they like, fuck. I got to read in the problem. I got to .

get my advocaat.

I do them. They're very reluctant .

to change the dates of things they've been publishing about forever. But there's some things that they find every now then that forced them like there's a place called go beki tappy in turkey that's eleven thousand years old. They found that in the nineties, I believe, was a shepherd, found this like piece of stone in the ground and kicked that IT, moved at around, then realized he was had an edge to IT.

And then they excavated, and this is an enormous temple structure, and they, to this day, only excavated like five percent of IT. There's a lot of controversy behind because people are like wired. They continue to escavators. What are you? Well.

now in Chloe, they can do almost just as much with sonic. They can plan out what's going on and not disrupt. Well.

that's how they know. There's many, many of these structures around that same area.

We the last year.

eleven thousand years old.

the last show of our tour we were in married of spain, playing in a Green, I mean, in a roman theatre, that they had only done the excavations in the fifties, because I guess at a certain point they just filled there's an empathy or next to where they would have glitter, atrial games and things, and in a theatre for theatrical and religious purposes. But you said, pink fluid gets pomp. Py, we get married IT, it's still cool, you know yeah, but you're playing in this place. IT was built during the rain of a gustus and and then that I was, yeah, well, you know, IT was just filled with trash.

There was .

just fill with trash finally out there. This was down. Wow.

that was all covered. Yeah, that's nuts. That is so nuts.

IT was fantastic.

Beautiful place. We went to last a well. We went to elisa.

Are not what? High and lisia, well, elusive mysteries, right? illusions. Ian mister's.

where you the cave? I think, well, one point was a parking lot from what I read because i'm .

really mean now.

And yeah yeah, like where the original mysteries took place.

No, no, you can still go there. Yeah, it's all carden off. It's it's protected.

You have to go through a gate, get his guards there and stuffy. But we we went to there, which is where the illicit ian mysterious were. And I got really lucky to go with my friend brian mirror rescue.

I was there with my family, and brian was there at the same time and brian mirror rescue was a scholar who wrote um this incredible book about the use of psychodeviant s in ancient greece is now been confirmed through. They take these old pieces of pottery and they found a got in the pottery. They think all the wine was laced with psychiatrically and these people, and they invented democracy. I mean, they are tripping balls and trying to give everybody an equal participation in society and figuring things out. But you're around these structures, and these are .

fucking thousands of years old. What is that? What was that? The cookie .

drink the yeah yeah the cookie on yeah know when they .

find this almost exact same structure in peru as well, really and down anything mirrors in the corner where they could build fires and like sin, light around and stuff yeah.

That's awesome.

Yeah I think. But what happens to in greece is the what is the lord? It's so once in a lifetime experience. But didn't rich people get their hands on IT and they start having their ceremonies, private ceremonies, more exclusive or the leads? And that's kind of the fall of that.

What the romans put a stop to IT, people know, did these people are like rethinking society the same way they put a stop to IT in one thousand nine hundred and sixties, when the government made all psychology drug schedule one when they were doing that, so they can go after the anti war protesters and the black panthers, and they change .

the counter culture moving. Same thing. I mean, you know, when i've first made the decision to be a daily cannabis user, I was an outline. Now i'm a patient. You yeah that .

interesting.

You like we used to be no, there people think they killed by mari because I should like that. But now it's just like it's my medical.

Well, you you know it's now and how many states Jimmy legal and how many did you say is like legal in nineteen? And I think it's half the country has legal marijuana. Half the country and the other half the country wants IT.

What do we do in like how the fuck is at twenty twenty four with all that we know about all the drugs and that this one twenty four states, three territories, washington dc. Of legalize recreational canvases, seven days of decriminalized tues commercial distribution is legal in all jurisdictions were possession is legal except of Virginian washington dc. Personal cultivation for recreation uses allowed in all jurisdictions ccea for the delaware, illinois, new jersey that's surprising and washed state that's even more so.

First off, let's just be honest, no one's ever, ever had fun in delivery when there were bines from.

I think it's it's just a dumb thing for us to be hanging onto the fact they're still lowing grown adults to tell other grown adults what they can do with their consciousness, with all the data that we know about things that are very harmful, that are not just legal or prescribed by doctors.

How about just everything is harmful that they allow in the world? You know, they don't give a fuck about the sea being a plastic desert but don't smoke pot or I mean, I find that's always been the case with authority isn't like language. What language you know I mean, what language can you use and how you use IT sex and violence?

You know, the front, they talk about rome.

and then we're going back to rome. And one of the reason rome was so successful is because they play gated. And we're talk about room. We're not talking about italy. We're talking about the city state of rome.

That is the thing that conquered the room, the city state and the surrounding areas where other things, but they keep their masses happy with to violence and free bread. yep. And you know in the same way that you keep people, you control people by fear and ignorance. Keep them, yes, no mean and exactly talk.

Just keep mildly entertained all day long.

I destined I find the idea of tiktok about as interesting as the game. Tiktok.

yeah, i'm not in that. No.

not in IT is crazy. When you go to the .

com and you realized the extent of the construction of IT and how a laborat was, how many different things they had going on, what they would turn into, like they have abled to filled up with water. And the wall said that animals in cages they could raise for the floor.

It's an imagine .

the thing about going there too, as you go. A wonder if they ever thought this was going to end. Did they ever image? Of course.

no. They certainly never imagine some idiot comedian in his family from california at the time we're going to go visiting. go. Oh, cool. This is what they had.

sword fight I mean, I I imagined, yeah it's I think some of the emperor is probably in an egocentric way felt and it's true. Everyone knows, you know a lot you know, there might be some kid you have never heard a bird record but held he might know who narrow was like the most dramatic sort of drage parts of where the. Where that period of room of the dictator starts to become.

It's just always shocking when you go to a place that was in complete control of like most of the world. And then now it's nothing. Now it's gone. Now it's just ruins that people visit and it's just the city.

Yeah what if bill gates had been like, you know, greeter, whatever the internet?

It's just always weird. Go to a place too, when you're .

from america. I O what if he came up with this? But they had a pretty good run in the renison.

Oh, well, theyve had amazing runs artistically. And mean, that's also something that I think about what I go to italy like. There is something about their life and their lifestyle that contributes to this incredible body of work. When IT comes to art, when IT comes to music, when IT comes to sculptures and paint, things like, there are so many great artists in that part of the world.

Have you have you ever seen about called naples forty four? no. Do you know this book? It's one it's a friend of man gave IT to make a couple years ago. It's a british secret service officer.

Comes to naples in thousand nine hundred and forty four, directly in the you push of the allies, pushing the germans and the fascist of the peninsula from sissy and then landing in italy. And it's an unbelievable book that this guy writes, and it's the sadness and the like tragedy of IT as you in. Like anything else, war is dramatic.

War is pain and violent. The aftermath of war is something that people rarely are, can wrap their head around, are interested in, maybe because it's even know you take away the drama of the battle and stuff, it's bleak. But there's something about in this guy, not italian english guy, but he captures the spirit, the humanity within, like this transitional period in naples.

But I imaginable stories to privity, but also great, exhAusting human things as well. And then just some things that are incredible, like, you know, italians in their clothes and even the rich, a rest decor tic class in naples to the to the person that could when they didn't have any fabric. And around this time after that, they're walking around naples and beautifully tailored suits made of old army blankets that they would use black pain on to make them like shake.

And yeah, yeah, I was like, I would love to see that garment in a museum, but just all manner of things. There's there's another american guy was there. At the same time, I wrote another book about IT, which is also very interesting because this guy was one of the only books of that time I haven't in my phone, I could tell you. But that talks about, like the gay seam with the soldiers in naples and stuff too, like during this thing, like just my just, you mean, incredible stories, incredible survival and heroics and art culture that still survive and know during, like the darkest time, you it's a great, great book, unbelievable unforgetable.

What's always interesting to in your thinking about things thriving and existing against resistance in in A A dark time or a different time, the time of much more difficulty, you know, and you get a chance to sort of feel what they felt when they were doing, what they are doing. I mean.

I think culturally, historically, I mean, I think one of the great reasons europeans have a much different attitude you're talking about know sylvian italians spent but everyone french, spanish, spanish people know that have a good time yes sure to have two events like the the world war one and world war two the yeah we have very little um it's hard for us to understand what those two events must have felt like through communities, city's families.

I just read in another amazing book called wine and war and it's a history of like the wine business during the that the occupation during windward to imagining wild shit going on. And but the french people know, because germans they knew as well, like, you know, what's the blood of france? Is the wine what is the thing that holds IT together in all these things, but is also a great commodity and also something of great elevated status, all the stuff with the way they deal bt with the vi. I just, you know, i'm like, wow and and these guys had a lot on their plate for five years and and leading up to the inevitable nati occupation.

Well, even in world war one, I mean, in world war one, france lost twenty five percent of its men. And then they were a war two. They lost another twenty five percent.

And in the book, I mean, and also just history, I think that's one people know one of the reasons I think germany mean, a lot of french people just didn't want to do IT again. You know, I mean, right, right, right. And and that I think you you know and know what's funny too, like history repeats itself all the time.

And we know that there was a lot of infighting and political things within the french government at that time, whether that you, through the military, whatever that made them really a soft spot. They had no, no one was there was no cohesive veness of the way they would think about fighting or defending or whatever as well. Yeah, but they went out in the end, you know, I mean, but this book about just how that affects all the different line regions in the characters .

and stuff that has to be insane. It's a great, great because it's so pant over there. Wine is everything to them. It's so important, right?

And you know it's funny. One of the like things in the book you're like, okay, so they're obviously you know confiscating everything for the very mac and doing all this stuff. But they take this I can might be wrong, but I think it's the potful say they take this, this guy has like you know how many casks, so whatever and they just take everything and then the guy is upset.

He's been in his family for four hundred years so whatever he's sitting there, this is head in his ands and they're like, it's just wine he goes, I I know it's just wine, but they destroy three hundred year old tasks that the oak barrels, that that the secret to the r line, and they chopped them up and threw them on a fire. You and he was more upset about that than the wine itself at that time. And he was like, they're replaced. Could never ever have that again. It's been in my family, friends, you know, stuff like that really gets my head spinning of, oh yeah, forget it's not just the grape and the person that makes the wine is that, you know I mean, it's every every detail, every aspect.

But they could also destroy the history of how I was made, like, people won't know how to do IT correctly. I mean, this, the one of the darker aspects of occupation is when they destroy ancient stuff, like the burning of the library of Alexander.

I may. Could you imagine what that? I mean, we have no, I mean, unmaking inability. yes.

And by the way, who burned IT down? Christians did they? Yes, that was Christian people who ran a mark because of something that did happened, some sort of crime that was committed or something. And that was the early Crystal.

And who burned that? Those mother focus. Imagine if that had some sort of an explanation as to how they built .

the permits, and which lost forever. I could be any, anything, and millions and millions of.

but that was the most sophisticated society that has even today existed. If you look in ancient egypt, n in terms of their ability to construct things that baffle us to this day, like the great pym had, baffles people to this day. There's hundreds, thousands of people debating how and and what they were four and what they did.

And we really don't know. I'm also interested in anything where before science becomes one thing, and like the account is another thing and there is a certain time, and was i'm really interested in john d. The great, a cultist scientist, english around the eliza, the first rain alchemist, but that his scientific ideas were equally, they persist the same gravity as as a cult ideas.

And those things are in the same world. They weren't remove from each other. They wasn't like, one was silly and one was serious. They were both taken with the same level of the priority, or whatever you know and and that's what we were talking before.

I think there's a to be to remove the mystics from everything or not to be able to at least to have a nod to IT. Don't understand. I mean, what is ancient egypt? Do you don't mean that? Yes, there are a great civilization that could or organize, but at its base. And what's holding IT together is this mystic like weird thing, you know like so to remove that completely, I think, is it's, I don't know IT seems so rigid.

It's a foolish.

rational, has reduction, yes, of different things, because you feel people's need for that to interrogate .

those things. Well, their husband in all great cultures, right? I mean, in teaching ea.

if you been to the the ancient, my instructions there in .

places of worship, and they all involve rituals, and there is a lot going. And what they did was incredible.

And I, X, and so I want .

to need, we got lucky. There was a really good fessor that was kind of explaining things to him. And he was talking about the different psychologically that they believe that they were use, and the way they had structured their all their buildings to align conStellations, and the way they had sort of worship this integration of the sky into all of the art. I mean.

it's an integration into a universal consciousness. I mean, that's really what IT is. And it's funny like because you think, well, you're poisoning the water, you're poisoning we're all it's all one living organism and the universe is one living organism, right? I don't want to get too far out me and you know but of course what it's all just like the ecosystem, whatever, like the frog eat the temple and and the birth is the problem you but it's just because you can't see IT doesn't mean that it's not .

scales up yeah .

and out and within in .

yeah forever yeah that's the reality of IT. So it's not just we're poising the water, we're poising ourselves.

And and of course, you know again, I would like to think the earth is is a strong thing, but and I don't get wrapped up in IT, but it's like, I mean, if you shit if you live in your own shit, you get sores. No, yeah right.

hence the .

plague.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. There's a this is when you think about the the universe as a whole is just too big for our brains. We don't think. We just think about our neighborhood or our lives or our personal problems or our bills or our tiktok yeah, nonsense. And it's just thinking about nonsense.

You know, people about that they can buy shoes that they don't have to touch to put their feet in. I see this .

order room.

We see commercial. The guy walks ever. They like, never touch your shoes again. I like, wow, IT don't be like. Finally, I like.

is choosing a slide.

I like, amazing that everything is, everyone, relax. You never have to touch your shoes. What do I want to touch my shoes?

yes. Yeah there will some people don't understand, they want comfort, you know and some people especially you're doing something you don't enjoy you you think of struggle as like your job or work. And then once you're not doing that, you don't want any struggle, just want relaxation.

But isn't that funny also that our culture is dictating a certain health thing? Take the sober chAllenge, go to the gym, buy these gym clothes and walk around in them. Do well this, but we're not going to take care anything else you like.

You don't care about our mental health. You don't really care about our health. You know mean you don't do anything about it's like but culture. Let's start putting this out there.

You know I mean, like why you know there's when I first went to new york city, there were bars and bookstores and weird junk stores and all sorts of things that weren't corporate. And now it's just gyms and banks. And I think I don't really go to the gym, but I imagine you could get an at in gm next to the k the a lot.

James. I'm sure A T M. I just saying.

you know like be healthy know I like IT is funny like there's nothing that saying to you be cerebral. You mean there's not a lot out there. You know you watch all dig caveat shows there's smart people, then they're not promoting a movie or a fucking in book or what. They're just talking about ideas and philosophy and art and their culture and the society you even what was his name my doug lash show that yeah mahamane I yeah and john linton and in some senator from mokhala, whatever you know, like they're just talking.

You could do that back then.

Now it's got to be no, the interview is pread. It's about the mood they show the .

if that's only on television, but that's also why podcasts are so popular. You said you can just come to talk about anything you have.

A new yeah place is also not under the scrutiny of having to play commercials every five second. It's also .

that's a big factor, but it's also not under anybody else's direction or advice. That's that's really important.

How can know if i'm not doing IT, but I mean, if i'm not doing IT .

at my level of the game, if i'm not doing IT like you don't have to do IT, you don't have to all you have to do is make something that resonates with people and avoid anybody else's input. I've had a lot of bad input come my way that i've ignored, especially in the early days, and things started to kind of take off.

Everybody has an opinion about how you can grow this thing to the next level, which those they want to talk about you to take the show of the next level. No, thought about having more, celebrate more of this and that everyone has advice, and but maybe just avoid these kind of topics. Maybe this not like as long as you don't have any input from other people, then whether people like that or don't like IT, at least it's you, it's you and the people you're talking to and it's a real thing.

It's not a it's not a promotion, right? It's not a by this, right? Yeah, yeah, exactly.

It's just exists.

which is just one dimension of things. You and you know it's nice to be clean cut and your teeth are wired in your smiling and your selling shit. By the way, I got a pair shoes. You don't you have to touch her. What size are you?

I don't even stay in that, but it's just.

I can work around like a eighteen century french .

do like that jacket that is a rockton role for a jacket i've been looking at at that thinking .

the moment I saw you where muscles .

are too big to tailor but i'm just thinking, don't know, I could pull that off out public people would do and dude, as a comedian and like, you can't be too cool unless you cat wasama, I knew cat is good. I tell you why .

cat will is cool because he's still out there talk in shit. And eight year old beat him up that time. Remember about seven year old king and the od mod, like like on the cool to come back. That is real.

You just, he is who he is and everybody loves him. He does. I can wear anything, but I can. I can wear .

Sparkly shoes .

and looking, looking giant rings. He's an awesome due to fun guy really that I only got to the one time I did a podcast with them and and IT was because he did another podcast and he said, jowell never have me on his podcast and I like, I have you on any time you want like we just never thought I never met him before really.

Now that I that comedians are like dramas. They all know each other, know every drama, knows every drum and every band.

But I know everybody else. I just never met him.

N, ny, funny.

He was already so huge that when he would stop by and comedy clubs, this is like after the pm chronicles, he would only like go buy A K you know, would go to a bunch of different clubs. And if you aren't there, when cat was there, you miss him. So he only came the chemistry at a handful times, and the commission towards that was my hat.

And that's where I went with all my friends and all the, you know, the best comics in L. A. And collaborated the comment store. And I never got to see him there.

I think I hurt was that like smack somebody wants like so with somebody from porch one night, I miss IT, you know but I just I always admire him. I thought I always talk nice about I didn't understand what I thought I wouldn't have him on the podcast, but once I meet, he's a joy. He's a, he's a funny, smart dude who's a lot of what he says.

He knows the fuck he's doing. He's like very tongue cheek and very just having a good time with IT. But he's a genuine character, like a genuine unique .

character.

I would love to me, I was great. I'd love him very .

smart to to see at the airport. I say, and you like this jacket.

he might be beautified in that be a little long.

I have to get the .

sleeve taken in so where I thought you get that jacket.

you know, I, my, my wife got me .

this a good taste yes.

he truly does. yeah.

And then you learn about ten pounds of silver.

Yeah, it's true. They call me the silver starker. I don't know if you're .

that's the kids call IT, my daughter calls that, which i'm just learning about these things got to be .

careful not to follow the pool, yes.

but I just love when rockstars stay rockstars. It's nothing bumps me out more than seeing an old rockers turn .

a golf .

shirt my de you to hang .

in there and sixty stones there are eighty amazing .

dive stone.

everything I love, the roling stones have. And the black rose told with them in one nine hundred and ninety five, we did all of europe with them. We did wimbley stayed in with, no, i've got, you know, i've got to hang with kids, and I know that's hung with a little bit.

They are the fucking rolling stones, you know. And so my wife and I and my fourteen year old daughter, who lives on the east coast SHE, was with us for the few weeks of summer. I'm like, let's go, you know mean, I would see them in a while and we went and I went without any I don't you know I mean, I went with nothing.

I wasn't going in with any expectation except to pay my be there with everyone and see the rolling stone be there and they were great MC. Jagger's voice was incredible, incredible IT. I mean, his energy and steps incredible, but his singing, I mean, they did wild horses at night, and I liked over.

And my fortune was like crying. And I was like, I was like, she's feeling IT so deep. Yeah, great midnight rambler.

They are in a stadium which just like eat running and keep just had like two speakers on stage and still playing. A lot of bands don't play live anymore. They have their digital shit to the pa.

There's not even any sound on stage. It's all through there in ears. And to me, that's really weird.

Whatever IT takes for you to get the gig. I helped people do what i've seen cool shows like that. But personally, I like a lot of so I want to real yeah.

I want to feel that I saw them at koda, the circuit of the americas, couple years ago. yes. And you know, it's just when you watch mick jagger walk on on the stage, almost can't believe is really there I cause is that really him?

I told my wife he's like a snatch but but everyone seen that right?

It's like he and he's still out there. I remember bill hicks had a bit in one thousand and eighty eight about the stones still doing IT in one thousand hundred and eighty about is this crazy thing I I got the stones have a new album, what this is, eighty eight.

And here we are .

in twenty twenty four, and they're still out there killing in.

And the show was mazing. So the best, I mean the best, I consider myself a midnight rambler, fishing out one of the best men I rambles .

i've ever heard.

So, so good and people were, you know, I mean, just IT was really, i'm so happy that we went to solve I stadium and yeah, I was just, I was great because I will admit sometimes and okay, let's be honest, I get access to access. You know, we have its cool, but sometimes in big places like that, something how I get a little bit like, not because of that people would know you. I did get weird around giant crowds.

I did when I was a little. I didn't like theme park in all sorts of weird that, but I was so cool, I was so inspired. You know, I mean, I I like floated out of there so happy. That guy is two .

trailers that takes for them everywhere that are just a gym. Two huge trailers that are just like my jagger works out. And when he gets out on that stage, and like he's fucking eighty.

you might be eighty one. If I love to be eighty, you can come fine me. I want to be three hundred pounds living and sisterly and they're going to those beautiful painted wagons will drag me around and the like.

But you want him to get to three hundred hundred and eat their food. That's what's crazy. That's when you realize were being poisoned when you eat in europe for a week and you don't gain anyway.

You like this is I had pizza, I had pasta, I didn't feel bad. You come over here, you feel get hit with the tranquil dart like we're a fuck and poisoning ourselves. You won't get to three hundred pounds. You live, insisted you drink a lot of fucking.

Yet even the wine is like .

it's Better. Well, just there's something about like just the air there.

just something where we are pretty much in our DNA sh. And then like a big scoop of polish jew on top, you do not even a big scoop at this point. Both my grandfather and my dad, six eleven jewish men who wield mean my brother, down about twenty percent.

And but when i'm I don't know there's there's something about their that is so just I don't know I I love to go to paris, but paris doesn't relaxing, you know i'm out all that. We're doing stuff. I love london.

I love majority. I love lots of places. I love rome. I love lots of places in the world. Something about this i'm like just i'm in I really like this is like you said, it's something about the lifestyle just so laid back. And it's maybe I like IT because it's a bit of a acronym. I think you know I mean, like you're going you feel like you've stepped out of the sam Epace a nd o r r hythm o f t he m odern f uture w orld t hat w e s ee e veryday.

yes. Is a different vibration, different what me and then everybody he's doing IT that way too. So you sort of settled into their way of life, just settle .

into their pace of things and need a shot of a just hit A O well, so still .

run .

by the mob. They say, no.

oh, then yes.

They say that IT doesn't exist anymore. But but if I remember, there was a big scandal during lack down in some small town, insisted, or maybe was polo o to research at the day, the police were upset because some old mob guy had died and they had a giant parade. No one, like everyone was out there.

All people know everyone was out. They're doing, they are thing for done, whoever IT was who was not with us anymore. And I was like, okay, they did that story. yeah.

Well, those people ran that place for a long last time there. An integrated power's society like .

the equis is in japan and is just a very, very long time for the way works. We've ever seen a funny movie .

called john's techno no.

with a Roberta balin's, the italian community actor. No, it's you would love IT yeah. So it's from the eighties and he sticking knows the toothpick yeah so he's Jenny toothpick and it's that fit. What's the story of? It's a famous story that you know he he's a school teacher in naples or whatever but he or in italy de in this girl who's the wife or lover, whatever some big gangster insisted he see. He's trying to he's in hiding because he did like read IT on someone I don't know something SHE seize him and he looks just like, so he brings him easily and he's like walking around, like, what do you know like so it's that kind of believably finding my way.

So do you remember there was an italian who created a very popular song where IT was fake american lyrics, a court trying to remember his name, but he was a song where he's singing fake words that sound like he's seeing like the wrong stones are, or, you know, the beetles something but he's doing IT with fake words is like what he thinks american song sounds like, but it's jibberish. This is the right. What is his name? Adrian altana, give me, give me some volume on this.

but it's really cool. I like you call the song is very cool.

but there is a couple different versions over this is like a live performance of IT, but there's another one that's like a music video of IT and a really fuck in interesting what that guy is.

That's cool.

That's really yes. Yeah, I just made up fake american music. It's fucking great.

I'm going to do that next week.

Why not lucky? I mean, you know that there's a lot of songs and have like words that aren't really words. You know there just kind of like sounds you know dare back talks about that from the black keys, like a loud times and saying things you just like making up sounds, making up words, make you did IT yeah, but he took words and mash them into something .

that was more especially live in the seventies. He has a lot of balls and what is so but man.

he's not lost any of the energy if you watch like his old performances and now it's just an older .

guy is also very cool because they play everything in the same key you will find a lot of and I get IT and you know, singing is, singing is a physical thing. I mean, what my word thing is kind of like the use. Like if I stopped singing, I would go away, you know.

I mean, if I didn't, you know, if I am going to take two years off, I would never, I would never get back to where where my voices. Why is that? This is the nature of the physical, I think, mean, especially as it's thirty five years, forty years of singing.

So it's like you're working muscles, muscles, wow. And you're working on regular and .

get out shape and and then and and then like that and then I just won't come back or won't come back to where i'd like to like my I really like where my voice is. Yeah, I say we singing the songs in the same keys. You know, IT was funny.

We played the form. We were the first concert in the form line, form after cover. And IT was A I D, never played there. IT was a big night. IT was, you know, friends and family. I was great, but George to cool as he's produced our first records, first records, and sign the band after the show, he was like, if I know you would still be sign of thirty, whatever years later, we could have put the keys that, you know.

So that wasn't how I work back to, because, you know, in rock and roll, you know, you the verse, and you get to the course and you want to get the exciting, yeah, you want to knock IT up or not, you know? But we don't change the me. I like that. I mean, my voice is changed, obviously.

but but it's still the same. I do you wonder how long you're gonna do IT give? Think about stopping.

I don't. I do sometimes. I mean, you know, the pandemic was funny for me because at first, not financial, really, things or whatever.

I was just like since I was a teenager, pretty much, this is what we do, we do or we do concert, we would make music ba B A B. And I was like, maybe i'm going to go a little cookie, not doing IT. And then I really, I mean, I had horrible days like everyone else, and to spare and fear and stuff of the unknown.

But a lot of those days, like, like, I have a lot of interest, you do. I mean, I have a lot of, oh, i'd like to write a book. I'd maybe like to write more than one book.

I find my voice outside of the musician in another artistic way or whatever, and just tics loving my wife and living life. Yeah and moving necessary. But a lot of those things, you know, i'm not ready to do that now, but also I look ahead.

I'm like to if do I want to be on stage when i'm seventy five? Do I want to as a difference? If I have to, I don't know. I guess i'll call IT when that if I am lucky enough to get to seventy five, I don't.

I I get through the into the week, but I do I love IT, but but for that event gave me the perspective of there's others I don't want, you know, mean, I would hate to be. I've always hated the idea that this is all I could do. That might sound weird. But no, no, it's great because i'm born to do IT. I like that kind of scenario like, you know like this is my wife, like when I watch you with my friends, when I see you in your element, this is obviously here supposed to do yeah but but I .

think I have I don't .

know if ambition is the right way, but I definitely have interested in things that have nothing to do with this. Yeah.

but that's part of being a human right? You don't want to be isolated. Specific interest and somebody fascinating thing.

And the isolation, that's a thing too. And I am really happy with could we have a level of success is greater whatever yet? Maybe I don't know. But to one thing I like about my life is I I am not the kind of i'm not so well known that I still can't do my own grocery shopping.

I could, I love to cook, I like to go to the market, i'd like to pick up my shed, or that you can, you know, mean that we have access to the whole words. You know, I don't have to worry about anyone giving a shit and about the people that do like IT that come up to me wherever I am in the world. They are usually real fans are not celebrity people so they're like, and I saw you at when you play this, you know, that's the other thing about music.

It's like rock music. You can be, you can do a lot of stuff, but you know one thing about the songs we've written, and I meet people and people play the songs we've written at weddings and at funerals, you know, mean not just parties and not just things. But I know my brother, I wat you when we wrote he talks Angels.

I get I I always have time and I always humbled by people's experiences with that song and addiction and things in their lives, whether it's the family member, that law um or people that have overcome things, you know I mean and that we know just wrote that song one day when we were kids and that means so much to people. There's a lot of songs like that in people that people come up. I think funny things sometimes like people will pick some song I like that was your wedding side. I was like, okay.

weird.

more obscure, you know, like some weird, like the song called non fiction, like we walk down out, not like the nonfiction, really a dark.

Sg, well, that's you're giving out with music. It's like it's an art form that changes people's feeling. It's when you hear a great song, IT literally gives you energy completely. It's a drug. IT really is.

It's like an an audio exactly the same. I mean, I mean, it's mainly to be with me because this this is the only time during this day that I don't have music on. But but I listed to french music from the twenties, and I listed to like peruvian and cubias from the seventies, or card electronic composes whatever, and blues and rock and roll js in the in RMB and whatever. But a lot yeah like what that means? You doing .

the right thing, right?

Like you really I also need IT like you do not only just for energy but like for some. So fl connection as well. And yeah, you know when. I especially with, you know, when I was Younger, uh, we all suffer from depression and some people have a more acute relationships with that. But you know, there's a certain melon collie that comes over me.

There's only some artists that can I could sail across that deep water with, you know what I mean to kind of assure me that i'm not the only we're not the only ones that feel this way. We're not the only ones that. You know, life is, life is, that is what IT is.

You know, a main like you not no matter how rich you are, no matter how successful you are, no matter who you are, you still have to deal with the up and downs of IT ABS. And I think adversity is the thing that really makes us who we are. It's one thing as like being a father, like i'm afraid of the adversity my kids face as a man. Of fact, that's what I really want to get to, is how because what makes you say we are is .

how we deal with adversity. If you don't deal with any adversity.

it's not good. And if you push IT under the table a, yeah, then then where are you mean? Where's and the great? And these things are cliches, but the greatest lessons are the hardest ones. You know, I mean, those the ones it's sticks to the most, yes.

And there's the ones to make you grow.

I have a great friend who's in a fantastic ban. They just open for us. We've been friends. They called. His name is jim Jones spans called the gym jone's all stars.

He was bank called the hip notis and and we've known each other for thirty years, and he went through really deep harvin addiction in the nineties. And it's funny to talk to him and I love you. He's but he's gaming.

He was was a lesson, you know, I am I G that's a fuck and tough lesson. And i'm happy you're still here to talk about IT. But I love his attitude.

You know, mean, I love that spirit in people know, I mean that I didn't, you know, I learned from this and i've moved on from this and I don't have any regrets and I don't have any resentment towards this or anger towards about IT and no one's are doing but my own that responsibility take a responsibility for stuff you know is a big and that's that's important. And I think we see a lot of that gone away. You know what I mean with people 嗯。 And every story is different, you know, mean, and not everything is the same. And what is real and what isn't real between there that everyone to figure out for people you but but the fact that can .

be caption a song and like you said, sort of Carry you through these bad moments. So we realize, like other people experiencing grief, hardship, depression, darkness, terrible thoughts of loss, and that the reason of those songs are so popular, it's like people want to suffer like, no, there's like something that are .

resonating with an anger is a part of that too, you know? I mean, like, and it's funny. Like, what's the newer music?

I like you guys like, the world looks pretty shitty. You guys pissed a little bit or you just like, no, i'm just gonna get some legs and my pants fit right. My hair is good. I'm like, okay, I get pop music is light sometimes. But I would like for the Young people to i'd like to see in the art a little more anger or i'd like to see more rock.

And you know, it's like when i'm looking at music coming up today, there's a great absence of strong new rock bands that that seem like rock bands from the .

past car base. Yes.

I mean, god dav people still love that music. What the fuck is going on?

Yeah, you go see A C, D, C there. The fuck. So people are going.

so what the fuck happened? Where's everybody?

I mean, I think it's definitely there is this? It's it's again, I think people some reason think the music business is supposed to be the gay or they're just like any other fucking salesmen. They always have been just because one salesmen had a cool taste and one didn't don't kick yourself.

They're not artists. There are salesmen and and there's cool people and not cool people but they're not to read yeah and I think like now we live in a time and you see IT a lot. You see people making comments about IT in our industry about how you're just following where's before yeah you have things that we're popular but someone you know someone said fox signed the stages yeah .

yeah you know danny feels yeah .

that but he had great taste but he was still A A record company guy the business side of IT someone, you know what I mean, someone said science sus in the benches or whatever someone said, dude, mean bob Dylan. You didn't know when I made first bodyline record to eb, eighty three years old bob Dylan to you know mean yeah yeah and a lot of people said don't sign him. He's not marketable. He's not commercial. And you know that's my thing where i'm i'm looking for still that map spirit or somebody who does have to wear with all and our vision to see that maybe something is a little bit outside the box, still could have not just IT would have importance and IT can be popular as well.

Well, of course, IT always has been that way. The idea that can that everyone has a short attention span now, and we were interested in fabulous things. So that's not true.

That's just still junk food is still junk food and there's still people that logan's zed meal i'm glad you're out there did. Thanks, thanks. You're doing this. I .

really great.

I really enjoy to talk about. Yes, sir.

thank you very much. Cheers, everybody.