Geoff Shepard: Watergate Was A Scam (And Now They're Scamming Trump)
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Welcome the sucker rose and show us to become pretty clear that the mainstream media are dying. You can't die quickly enough. There a reason they die. They lie, lied so much that killed them. We're not that talk across to me with the most honest content, the most honest interviews we can without fear or favor. Here's the latest so the fifty of the anniversary of Richard nixon's resignation as president is in August where upon IT is right now um nixon was by some measures the most popular president ever elected um and then into a second term he was gone and lived the rest of his life in a kind of disGrace and so as the fifty anniversary uh arrives, you have to ask yourself, is everything that we think we know about water get true um what did happen there actually in retrospect looks very much like a kind of coup um against the sitting an enormous ly popular president was IT that well there are very few people still around um with their faculties who can answer that definitively and jeff shepard is at the very top of that list.

He graduated after law school in one thousand nine hundred and sixty nine and when immediately to work with the water is White house uh and remain there through the entire next and administration pretty um leaving only a during the forty ministration one thousand and seventy five toward the end of the nixon time in office he worked as a lawyer in excess defense um and had a bunch of different jobs new every single person uh around nixon and in fact is the person who transcribed the famous dixon takes uh including the smoking gun tape in fact is the person who named at the smoking gun tape so um probably the most reliable and certainly best informed a narrow or of that story and we are honor to have him here to assess water gate on its fifty of anniversary. Thank you, jeff. I really .

appreciate that .

is to IT great. And I I I probably five years ago, wouldn't have been anxious to do this because I felt historical and of interest to me, but maybe not of interest to a larger audience. But given everything that we've seen in washington in the past to eight years, I think people are reassessing their understanding of of of recent history.

And that would include water gate. Um so if you wouldn't mind just giving us starting with an overview of what was water gate, what was the scandal, just give us a very crisp, timely of what happened to president next and during that. And then if you would tell us what you think actually happen.

then we can get into the details. Sure sure. IT IT is a scandal that unfolds over two and half years.

All kinds of current and edges and and items that aren't core yes, the core story of water gate is that, uh, five people were arrested on the morning of june seventeen and nineteen, nineteen seventy two in the water gate office building in the offices of the democratic national committee. They had bugging devices on them. Uh, they were photographing documents.

Uh, IT turned out one of them was a former career C, I, A agent who is head of security for the next in reelection committee, the committee for the reelection of the president, who is initial spell the word creep. So it's C, R, P, but it's pronounced creep. The other four were killed in americans and and um uh and then turned out that uh there were two masterminds from the reelection committee who were the the overlords of the brain so you they were brought to trial burglary trial.

Uh they were all convicted. Uh seven people uh uh and then I turned out that there had been an effort to cover up who out new because the the uh braking was planned by the reelection committee. So and if you knew about the planned broken, you were in trouble too and there was a cover up because very important people might have known about the planned break in and we'll go into IT in in a couple of minutes.

But the cover up ultimately failed. What James accord, the the C I A. Wireman uh. Wrote a letter to the judge and said there's been a cover up.

People have committed perjury and the cover up came apart and people who were close to that or whose name figured in the press ultimately resigned uh uh and IT turned out the cover up was actually run by the president's own lawyer um but but IT IT infected other people on the White house staff so i'll get into my my point of view in a minute but the end result when everything came out and IT turned out the president was taping people in his oval office. There was a tape system uh that had run for two years. So the public concluded, I think fairly, that if they got the tapes, they could figure out who was, who knew what win.

And the most famous quotes from senator Howard Baker of the urban committee, what did the president know and win did he know IT and you'll find out echoing in every scandal since uh, uh and and popularly so uh uh the as the as the investigation progressed, more and more people got caught up in the wrong doing and ultimately there was a tape that came out, uh, after the recommendations for impeachment, after the supreme court ruled the tapes had to be turned over to the prosecutors, this state came out that recorded the president of Green with his chief staff to get the C, I, A. To tell the FBI that two people they wanted to interview, we're off limits because they were C. I.

personnel. Now i'm somewhat familiar with a smoking gun tape because I was the third person to hear IT after the supreme court's s decision. I wish the one who prepared the official transcript of the first transcript. And i'm the one that nick mended the smoking gun. And the reason I did that was because the president, chief lawyer, when he heard that he was the second person after president nixon, to hear that tape, the tape of june twenty third, one thousand hundred and seventy two, six days after the break and arrests, he concluded, turns out, wrongly, that the president had been involved in the cover from the beginning, because he agreed to this idea to get the C I tell the FBI not to the interview, the people. Now let's go back and start with what I .

think happened just for people who aren't as familiar with the the details in the overview。 So so the brain happens in one thousand nine hundred and seventy two during the campaign ablution xin overwhelming side some measures biggest .

american .

yes um and so is the most popular president and then the washington post bob ward, word and crown burn steam being reporters on the stories start to break a serious stories, the break in the cover and what happens then? How is nicks and booted from office and well, those stories .

were breaking before he was reelected yes. So IT is fair to say the public was informed about this minor scandal interest but they still voted over one and for the president is run into great George mcgovern yes and acknowledged progressive is we we Carried with his campaign has been in favor of acid amnesty and abortion yes um he promised to raise taxes was a wipe out but then facts started to come out that we're embarrassin as the cover up started to come apart.

The actual trial of the water to get burglars occurred after the president had been reelected. So he went a landslide in november. But the trial starts in january. And when those seven were all convicted and facing tens of years of imprisonment, IT broke the cover up. They didn't hold anymore. And as that broke, uh IT was like a uh uh a flood coming down stream, swallowing damn after them, more and more things came out that were adverse. The senate set up an investigative committee, the senate urban committee, they were public cards.

They were dragging people up there um and the people didn't look good know I look at bad stories and then I turned out there was a taping system and everybody felt, wow, now we can learn the truth and there was a year long battle over who got the tapes and and the famous cases USB nixon handed down in july of uh, one thousand nine seventy four. Now IT was the prosecutor whose stepan's the tapes americans don't understand. IT had nothing to do with the congress.

Congress never won a battle saying they can have the tapes because of separation of powers. Other president could protect his own conversations, but not from possible criminal involvement. And that was the holding of the supreme court.

So you end up with three things for certain. There really was a broken. They were count red handed.

There really was a cover up. There is no question about that. Who was involved is the real question. And nexon really did resign is the only president to date who's ever resign from office.

So let's start at with the crime, the broken. You said um there was one that the man in charge was A C. F. Sir record.

No, wow. yes. He was the senior guy of the break in team, but he would be unfair to say he was in charge.

I mean, at on the scene.

there were two goals, as I understand that I have no personal knowledge, two goals of the weekend. One was to fix A, A, A listening device, a bug in the chairman's phone, lario bran's phone, that wasn't transmitting correctly. And the other was to photocopy every document they could find.

And the cubans were supposed to do that in. Mccord was supposed to fix the bug. Some people think there's all kinds of conspiracy y theories about that brain because we've never ascertained why the lead prosecuted the career .

prosecution.

Why did they go in? Why did they go in? May, who thought that was a bright idea? You get down to IT.

They're all kinds of story stucker. And I can't vouch for the stories, but supposedly Howard hunt, who is a separate career C. I agent, he said, this is not lario.

Brian has already left for their convention down in miami. This is high risk, lower ward. I don't want to go back in. But gordon lady, who developed the campaign intelligence plan, was eager to show off kind of a mucho man know by joe if that stuff isn't working and i'm going to send my team back in to fix that and then to fix IT. He recruits the head of security for the reelection committee, whose James mccord so you're right, macari is the senior guy on side. But ladies, pull in the strings.

How many the burgers had some connection to the C.

A. The Howard on the only guy who doesn't is gordon lady who was an evi agent .

for he had .

been an FBI agent and an assistant uh district atterley um I had the pleasure of knowing gordon when I was a White house fellow at treasury and he was fired from the department of treasury because he wouldn't follow the direction. And I have the misfortune of having fought to keep him off the White house staff. I maintained he was a loose cannon. He wouldn't follow direction and we would do the day if we hired him. But I lost.

I knew him well, and I I can verify. I thought he was great, but he was definitely lose canon.

I remember walking down the hallway of the O D O B that the gorgeous uh uh marble, uh uh squares, black and White, same to myself. The day gordon left good havens. He's been here and he's laugh and nothing's gone wrong.

And I I pitched a, hey, fit. They must think i'm a fool. And then later IT turned out that golden had run .

this whole thing. But can I ask? So the C I A is an intelligence gathering agency whose main purpose is to collect information from around the world and give them to the president so he can make Better informed form policy decisions. Yes, they have no right to Operate in the united states.

No, no, no Operation.

What and I mean from from its inception um that has been the rule IT seems very strange that every burglar has some connection to the C I has worked for the C I like what .

is that everyone but gordon and gordon is the move in force. So I tell you, right off the top, the CIA knew all about the burglary in advance everything. President next son knew nothing. When gordon goes over to the reelection committee, he is recruited by john dee, the president's lawyer. He shows up at creep and he says, i've been promised a million dollars to do a campaign intelligence plan now those words are pretty innocent, but the Operation is not innocent at all.

Its opposition research, every campaign wants to know everything they can find out adverse about their opponent, of course and when today when um uh they were looking for who was gonna trumps vice presidential nominee, the other side was doing research on all the possibilities, of course so they were ready to jump. okay? Gordon is asked to prepare his recruit by john dee, the president lawyer, to develop a campaign intelligence plan.

And he gets Carried away. He says, ww, I can really impress these people. I will put together a plan that they will just blow them out of the water.

And he has specific proposals for mugging, bugging, hidden p and prostitution. And i'm not making this stuff up. Gordon is so thrilling LED.

With his plan, he describes IT in his autobiography, so you can go to see his book and reading great detail. He shows up of over real election, says, i've been promised in a million dollars. The acting head says, well, nobody here has authority to decide a budget item that's that big.

The only guy that can make that decision is john Mitchell, and he hasn't arrived yet. He still a turny general. Will will have to go over to his office and explain the plane. So they go over on january twenty seventh, nineteen thousand seventy two. And gordon puts up his plan on, uh uh, a White word prepared by the A I A, and explains this plan, this crazy plan.

Now I I just wanted get back to the the same question, which is why would the C I A be involved in anything like this? Well.

we've agreed they cannot do anything domestic.

This is illegal.

We know that they do, but they are, do. Well, Howard hunt was a career officer with A C. I.

A. Uh, we got john or lukman, the head of domestic affairs, to call Richard homes or burn walters. One of the other that had, or deputy C, S, C, you need to help these people.

You need to help these people. So they gave Howard hunt, their former employee, a wig, a voice altering device, something to put in a shoe, to make him look like you had a limp. So he, he wouldn't be recognizable if he was seen.

They give them a camera, A C, I, A produced camera, but only the CIA can open and develop. And they use IT to take pictures of a brain. Their planning out in last Angeles, and and then they come back and they say, well, we're going to show this place and gordon talks them in.

I'm started, as you put, what break in where they planning in los Angel.

Well, this is why water gets to be so much fun. There was this, this four volume study of the vietnam war called the pentagon paper yes, and IT went up through london, Johnson and IT leaked, and I was considered debate, the biggest national security lake in the cold war. And the who is an internal .

assessment of how the vietnam, or was going well.

how IT started from day one all the way back to world, world two. And IT was put together secretly on peer reviewed by the three most senior jobs on the war, paul wanky, who is cancelled to the department of defense, Martin helper, on who was the national security officer, and a third guy, less galab, who did most of the writing. And IT went on for couple years.

Nobody else knew I was underway. IT wasn't even completed when nixon was. Nixon took office. So they took their study to brookins and completed IT in the next six months. Nobody on the national security council, new nobody on the uh, state department or the national or or anybody else.

An internal study by the pentagon, but one of the people who participated in the study, Daniel elsberg, originally a former marine, originally strongly in favor of the war, had switched and was opposed to the war and felt this thing should be leaked. And he worked very hard to get IT late. He offered IT to Williams full bright, the chairman of senate foregone relations, and fulbright wouldn't ch.

IT. He said, this is top secret. You get IT sent to me officially and deal with that, but i'm not going to touch IT until it's official. I don't want be part of that.

So ultimately, the new york times decided we'd go with IT in the in june of nineteen seventy one, they started producing excerpts and Henry kissinger went crazy, didn't didn't concern nixon. Nickson wasn't a part of the study, but IT suggested the war was illegitimate from day one. That was the purpose of the study.

And kiser said, look, i'm negotiating with three totalitarian regimes north yna, china and russia. If they think we can keep secret, they won't talk. So you must do something.

So there was an aloud, aloud press to stop publication of the pentagon papers, and we lost. But on the way to the supreme court, there were twenty nine and junctions stopping newspapers from publishing excerpts. And then the court held no, no prior publication.

You can't stop IT until you can soon after they publish, but you can't stop something before it's public. That's freedom of the press. IT turned out elsberg had uh, strong connections, worked for the rand CoOperation out west in sentiment ica and he had access because ran had access to fifty fourteen other classified documents.

And so this unit set up in the White house to try to stop the damage from the pentagon papers and stop elsberg from leaking anything further, decided what they ought to do to possibly learn its plans was to break in to his psychiatrist office in beverly hills, dr. ur. Lewis fielding.

And they try to get over to do IT. But over wouldn't do IT because elsewhere, g's father in law was a guy named lennard Marks. He ran a big toy company, and he gave toys to hover a Christmas to give two other privileges.

Ds, you know, you think and say what goes wrong with our government? Well, what goes wrong as we deal with human beams? You know, so they got the bright idea to break in, to use a feeling office to searches files and C, F.

By some chance, Daniel ellsberg had told doctor feeling what his plans were. And they didn't use the F, B, I course. They couldn't use the C, I, A.

I could staff them, but couldn't take Operations. So they used gordon lady and Howard hunt and and they said, we know who can actually do the deed. We know these cubes done in miami.

Because when we were going to invade cuba, I was their C. I. A contact. I was the mysterious, this is how to, I was the mysterious Edwardo. And they respect me.

So if I tell them this breaking is necessary because he has something to do with castro, we'll do IT. So they go out and they break in and they can pick the luck. So much .

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Who's paying for this? Who's organizing? Who is the authority telling these guys to go breaking .

to bordon lady is the chief Operational officer for the plummers. Yes, he wasn't hired to be the plummer. He was already on the staff member I tried to keep.

I failed. So when this single developed, my immediate supervisor, bud robe us, who was put in charge of the special unit that became nicknamed the plumbers, because they stopped leagues. He has signed gordon.

And this other gentleman, who is a retired CIA officer, Howard hunt, join the team is a consultant. So they were the two people who were planning IT. Uh, gorden was on the staff.

He was paid as a staff member, and hunt was paid from a fund. The domestic council had to fund Operations. IT was government money.

So they do the braking. I don't know who paid the humans. I'm unable to say that.

I doubt the C, I, A paid them. I could have been private money raised off budget, but I just don't know. The brain was not successful.

They did not find the file, but since they couldn't pick the lock, gordon ordered them to break in and make IT look like a drug bus, like some drug went into the strengths office, look at for pills. They didn't get caught, failed in, reported to the police. So there's a police record.

So when this all starts to come out later, they know exactly when the break in occurred. Now assume for a moment, whether you agree or not agree that the FBI conducted the Operation, IT would have been successful. No fingerprints, no trace left behind.

So there could have been, oh, I think IT was broken into, but no proof. But because IT was botched, there was proof they got back to the White house. They told john erick, men who had approved A, A, A, A secret Operation, covert, not necessarily illegal.

And they told him they broke in. They hadn't been successful. So they wanted to go break into field in his house to see if the file was there.

And the arctic man said, no, no, no, we are onna, do this anymore. Get lady of my staff. Then comes john, assigned to do a campaign intelligence plan, looking for somebody to recruit, talks to bud club.

Bud says, have I got a deal for you? Here's gordon. Lady gordon has handled sensitive items for us in the past.

So dean does for IT. And he hires, go here, recruited, go in lady, and promises, sam, all this money. I think the actual promise was a half million, possibly a million.

So gordon shows up at the reelection committee. I'm supposed to do this plan. And my god, the acting chief says nobody would afford to do this to approve the expenditure.

So they go over to john Mitchell's office twice to present the plan. It's not approved to see the meeting, but later when these guys are arrested and caught in the act, people who were at that meeting or at risk of prosecution. And that's when john dean, who was estimating who had recruit gorden lady, he starts run in the cover up. Nobody yon the White house staff, not hollow men or a lukman or nation, do anything about the braking. But john.

is that confirmed? Oh.

absolutely without question. Absolutely without question. Gordon lady had never met any of them. There's nothing in writing there. There was a ticula file.

We with bob holleman the way he ran the White house, if there was a five projects, we want a presidential library started, we want you to know what we're going to do about, uh, of the environment. We want to know something else and they'd be after you until you said yes, that's underway. IT wasn't substantive. IT was just this item has been addressed, right? So that they can show they can they can show that they were told they had made arrangements for a campaign intelligence plan, but no details.

When do you think nixon learned about the water get broken?

Uh he was down and keep skin. He came back on monday. He read about IT in the um uh sunday paper the miami herold oh really yeah and he says, what a dumb shit thing to do who would be so stupid to break into the headquarters of the dnc?

Especially because .

they did to the candidates were run in and you if you were into this, if you were in to spying, you'd .

breaking in the .

government. They come back and and and as IT comes apart.

we do that. I can ask you position just because I I don't want to lose this thread so you just made up, I think, an air type cases. There was no reason to do this.

Nixon was winning. absolutely. The dnc wasn't run the campaign anyway. The whole thing was sloppy and stupid. But we know that the C, I had knowledge, because everyone there was former C. I.

and they did the church. That, hugely important, did the church did the chart. Gorden later used to explain the plans.

So we know that the C, I, A had a hand in orchestrating this break, which was unnecessary.

absolutely.

嗯， so you know why .

you come back? Why the broken? Yeah, it's gordon lady showing off. He's a mad man.

But why would the C. I go along with that?

I can't respond to that part. Uh, put IT IT. put.

Flip the coin. Okay, the wrongdoing, the alleged wrongdoing is the C I. They knew, and they didn't tell anybody they knew.

Okay, you could make that case that they they watched IT burn down. Then you ask yourself, who were they supposed to tell? Who were they supposed to work for?

The president and date and john Mitchell is alleged to have approved the plane. John Mitchell, the president's best friend. Who do you tell we think you're making a mistake.

You dispatch the director .

Richard helms.

the the former navy H L. user. Um right. So it's all very strange. So you but your um you believe that IT IT was all because gordon lady was gradient reckless without question in .

my mind and based on knowing gordon lady but not knowing anything about the broken me, I have no personal knowledge but .

you I mean you work there at the time you had no idea.

No, everybody, I, I, I knew everybody from the White house that ended up being involved. I never set foot in the campaign headquarters. Terribly helpful.

Ah how did you survive, jeff? Well, one, I never worked on any campaign. I worked on the governance, not the campaign.

if I get, but went, when did you ln of the broken in the paper?

Yeah, in the paper. So my secretary had a rooming that was the secretary to the plummers. right? I can't. Come up with her name but he sent me a name email just very recently uh and he would tell my my secretary that that there were people that were under investigation.

They had yet indeed had me yet caught because the five people call red handed, and there were two others, and they were speculation in the press about who those two others might be. So joe lamar, my secretary, says, what you know, who they're talking about and I said, will know, I have no idea SHE said, well, let me give you his initials. It's G.

G. L. I said, means nothing. The may and SHE says, it's a gee, gordon, jeff. And there's this shocked pause when I remember my fight to keep him off the staff and my telling myself that he's com is gone and nothing th's gone wrong. IT turns out there's a whole lot that's gone wrong so K.

I ask I already said that I knew gordan lady pretty well and and really liked that. I find enormously entertaining and smart and interesting, however and he's gone as we can right defend himself. But that's so crazy to do something like that, to break into the dnc for no real reason in the midst of presidential campaign winning. Anyway, if he drove that, and you're saying that he did, is IT possible that he was working against nicks on?

No, no. He expected to get based on his spectacular work on this campaign, intel plan that he would get a very high position in the second term. That's what was driving him. He has conversations with Howard hunt and says to hunt you, you played your your hand. You know you, you advertise your older.

I'm looking to impress these people so I get a more senior position and he had dreams of of grand doer now, uh, the other issue in its inland colonise book sand ku, he says there is a totally separate reason and the reason had to do with john deans girlfriend, his fiancee. But I know nothing about this story except to reproduce lens work. He says the C I A was running a honey trap in the apartment building next door, colombia pu za apartments.

And they were catching foreign diplomats in compromising positions with good looking women. And john in was dating the room mate of the madam hyde rican that was run in the honeytrap. And SHE was best made of honor at john d's marriage to a mobile or dean.

But when they were dating deans, nico nickname was cloud, because SHE was dating the council to the president. So he had cloud. And according to lame, this is not me. This is the cloud.

I, john became worried that marine den's picture was in the desk drawer where the diplomat, not the foreign diplomats, but the dnc field officers, would come in right to the campaign headquarters, and they were looking for a good time. And that dnc was a avAiling itself of the honey trap next door, the process, the prostitute. And what you would do this is the allegation.

What you would do is you here said at the desk, pull open the door, there's a picture book. You pick out somebody you like. You call the number and say, I like fifteen in a few minutes later, fifteen calls you back and arranges a day pretty good in less.

John dean's girlfriend's picture was part of that portfolio. So according to land, the reason for the brain was to go back in. And if her picture was there, take IT out.

Now, one of the cubans has a key, and the key is taped to his notebook. And when they are arrested during the course of his arrest, he tries to swallow the key ah he dam lucky he didn't get shot. He's not success for they wrestle him down, they get the key and then they try to figure out where he goes and i'll be a son of a gun.

IT goes to maxi wells desk, which is alleged to have the photographs. Now they didn't find that out. They didn't know way to open for a long time. So the photographs are gone, but the story lingers.

Where was maxi well's desk?

SHE was the um secretary to. My named steward, i'm i'm blocking on the name and he he was the only phone, uh uh, because he was running field Operations that was apart from the D. N, C.

So was the only telephone that didn't go through the D. N, C. Switchboard and SHE was his secretary ah for the for the conspirators among us. His dad worked for mullen company, which was A C I front Operation in washington. So there's again there is a remote C I connection.

Now let me finish on that because I I don't disagree with this allegation that this breaking is just where as IT can be, almost as weird as the trump assassination, all these things that should never have happened. But on the braking, uh, uh, uh the the issue that is that that is is a strange IT has to do with this john din's girlfriend and and the the stories that are told about IT. And that's why john dean runs the cover up because he's trying to protect his involvement both in the meetings with john and in in this involvement with this fiances.

So IT just gets weirder and weirder molin company again, the C I front, uh, they hire the first lawyer to come down to try to bail the five who've been arrested out of jail. His name is Douglas cty and he shows up. They don't know he's they don't think they've never retained him.

He just shows up at the police station and says, I represent those five guys. We want to get him out here. And the cubans are saying to the police, you know, we're on the same side. You know, there's gonna be a phone call and we're gonna added here within the next half hour. Now he doesn't say IT, but you know, we're working for the president.

the nine states, but the C I jumps to save the burglars, the million company lawyer.

They send the lawyer over. I think what happens again, this is all speculation, is Howard hunt, who's not caught, goes back to the hotel room, where the listening devices across the street, to the Howard Johnson hotel across the street, and tells the guy who was supposed to be listening to to the wire taps, get your stuff and get out, get lost.

And then Howard hunt drives around washington for a couple of hours if he is not call and decides the safest place to put his stuff is his office in the old executive office buildings. He's a consultant to the paloma s. So he goes in to A M three. A M leaves always stuff in his safe. He's got too much stuff, so it's on the desk and in his safe and then you you switch.

And we we didn't put this in our document where all of all of this, the part I have had to play is in a documentary, uh, uh, the f bi agent who is a signed Angela ena, who is a sign of the case from day one, he says, you know, the burglars had two hotel keys at the water gate hotel where they were staying. So we went to their rooms. I went to one of the rooms, and all the evidence we could ever have needed is laid out on the bed.

Here's their I D. Here's their wallet. Here's the sequence, one hundred dollar bills. Here's an envelope from a Howard hunt that nominally from miami to pay his dose to a country club. So IT looks like he's an non resident member.

Mean, how is cheating on his dose? So they go over an interview, Howard hunt, that very day. No, he didn't talk to hunting lts for the west coast and hides out with a attorney friend waiting for world from gordon on what on earth to do you know they've been caught.

Gordon is over three election committee spreading documents like there's no tomorrow. He actually had stationary printed up with the name James stone because that was the overall code name of his campaign intelligence plan. And he's trading dog incriminating documents like mad and he's not really he's fired from the FBI from the reelection committee about five days later because he won't co Operate with the FBI.

And then he is indeed on september fifteen. The breaking is june that called red handed. The prosecutors launch a huge investigation.

John dean does everything in his power to ford IT to coordinate the testimony. He he does incredible things in his cover. He rehearses some of the people on what they're to testify to when they appear in front of the grand jury.

He destroys evidence, some stuff taken from Howard hunt safe. He found dangerous, so he peals IT off, put IT in his file cabinet, and later admits he's destroyed IT. He, he talks the head of the F, B, I, pat gray, into sharing intelligence reports, prosecuted reports with him so he can share them with defense council so they know where the investigation is going.

And pat gray testifies under earth. These put up to be head of the FBI permanently. And he says, yes, I gave jon eighty one investigative reports over time.

He told me he was doing this investigation on behalf of the president, and I believed him. Why I wouldn't. I give him the investigative reports, but john dean was giving them to defense council and john dean is the only person in watergate who took money. He embraced four thousand dollars of campaign funds to pay for his honion. It's all admitted that is all on record. He's disbarred by the commonwealth of Virginia february sixth uh um one thousand nine seventy four and they they court hearing that the new york times the article says he was accused of suborning perjury all all these criminal acts and he's despite he's been despite through today he cannot represent anybody in court.

Give little if he never goes to prison.

never spent in any .

winds up on M, S, N, B, C is a potio st.

Yes, you know, there certain unfairness in life. Well, how did he earn that? He flipped on his colleagues.

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You open up and never think about it's all free, but is IT no, it's not free. These companies are developing expensive products and is giving him due because they love you. They're doing IT because their programs take all your information, think who up your data, private personal data and ll IT to data brokers and the government.

And all of those people who are not your friends are very interested in manipulating you and your personal, political and financial decisions. It's scary as how and it's happening out in the open without anybody is saying anything about IT. This is a huge problem, and we've been talking about this problem to our friend eric prince court year.

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The prosecutors wouldn't give him immunity. He, he did everything he could. He was first in to reveal the cover up and he said, I can, I can give you john mita.

I can give you job, my god and they said, that's not good enough so he said, well, shoot, there was a cover up I was running that I can give you White house people and they said, not good enough. You go before the grand jury. You want the truth to come out.

Go before the grand jury without immunity. But his lawyer is a very, very well place democrat. He goes up to capital hill, to the urban committee, works out a deal. He'll be their principal witness against his former colleagues, if they will give him community, and they do.

And then IT turns out he's gonna be the lead witness in the cover up trial, and they are worried about his credibility, so they hurry up and sentence him to one four years in prison. The harshest sentence passed down to non burglars at that time before he testifies with his incarceration to begin on the first day of the trial. Except he doesn't go to prison, he held in a witness holding facility and ford holiday d maryland day military base pain becomes any testifies egg.

I have been punished. I'm guilty. There was a cover up. I know I was run in at these other people here.

They were part of IT, I swear you they were part of IT. You should convict them too. And then seven days after their convicted in all counts, john dean sentences reduced to time served.

He never spent a single night in jail. So there's only two real criminals in water gate. There's people on the periphery.

But the core criminals are gorden. His plan, his genius, his involvement. He got five years, his sense to thirty five, five years in jail. John dean ran the cover.

I mean, we have in the documentary that we've prepared this being released, uh um we have Angelo leno, the at lead of the agent. He asked what what about the involvement in the cover? What about john? And because I credit him with ninety five percent of the cover of activities. This is the head F B.

I asia. But he becomes in later life, I mean, i've watched IT over decades. He becomes a apologist for the people in charge with the liberal.

establish he's counted upon to come out no matter what what cases, and announce its worst thing, water again. He test, tries against republicans every time he doesn't test .

try and they have a republican of the point. He he's become probably, for the last fifty years, he, in exchange for not being punished for what he did, he has become a servant of the people who .

took next out to fair, you think, oh, lately, out of nowhere in twenty fourteen. And he's publishes lots of books all on water again. His wife publishes a book on water again.

They publishes one in twenty fourteen called the nicks on defense and IT page fifty four. In his book, there's a footnote, and the footnote says, you know, funny thing, the smoking gun tape that drove next out of office. It's released on August fifth.

He resigns on August state. That's what not next enough. That's been misunderstood from the beginning.

I was really an effort to not have the FBI interview two people who might reveal the donation of significant contributions to creep by democrat, by very prominent democrats. So what appears to be next in a grain to using the C. I to cover up the braking in, is nothing of the sort.

Next agreed to use the CIA to protect the testimony against two prominent democrats. If nick had known this when this tape came out, when the tape was first heard, he might have lived to fight another day. That those are quotes of the bona of the page. He might have lived to fight another day. In short, the smoking gun was shooting blanks.

Okay, here's the guy who is that the absolute center of the alleged wrongdoing, saying it's all been a mistake now he testified at the trial and when you swear at in is the witness, you'd swear to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth john d. Knew from the date that tape was released that IT was misinterpreted, but he didn't say so at the trial when they were pushing on him. And bob holden, man, his life is hanging by a baLance. And he says that was a political decision. And john dean says, well, they were worried about golden ladies involvement, which is true, but lie.

It's just interesting that next time is forced from office on the allegation that he was using the city to covered up when in fact, the C I had been involved in long before nix and even new.

when we released the smoking gun tape on August fifth, we knew that would be the nail in the coffin he described.

Sense you transcribed yourself. What did you say for those you can remember, what was the experience of IT?

I did transco IT. I don't .

have the transport .

charge comes and he says the investigation is going in a direction we don't want IT to go and exxon says what what you're talking about, he says what the tracing the money and what he means is they're not tracing how the money got to the burglars because it's clear that came from crease.

It's how the money got to creep in the first place and that will revealed these two guys so next and that was is its stands as this have do with more stands who's finance chairman and and holland says no, is somebody who works for stands it's can dalberg and then one of the most famous lines in our history, nickson says, who the hell is can Albert and holman says he's a middle and there's another guy, a mexico, an attorney. I have the name for you tomorrow, but john, uh, they're gonna reveal the identities of these donor's and Jones thought about and come up with an answer and he says one of he he's just been over to see pet gray at the FBI and pet gray says they think it's A C. I Operation because there's all these foreigners, all this foreign money in these cubans.

So we just get the C, I, A to tell the F, B, I lay off these two guys OK totally miss understood by nexon lawyers. They, they, they read IT as no, no, no, that the effort was to shut down the investigation. But john, who was there, john in, is the one who came up with the idea he gets in twenty fourteen around the same, not so.

And even though he said that in his book, he'll sit there in meetings, he'll sit there in T, V, shows where people say and and nick and tried to stop the investigation, he won't say a word, say john's kota tram, his interactions with nex and personal interactions with niche. They are on tape so he can't fudge much. There's a memo and i've produce the memo.

Um we rent by one of the special prosecutors on february six seventy four and IT lists the the material distances between john dee testimony before the senate and what's on the tape and there's sixteen material discrepancy. But the press doesn't care. The press is got a narrative and the narrative is action and is people are all crooks.

We don't have to look any further. We don't have to read the transcripts. We know what they say, but they don't say IT. That's what my work keys off. And that's what we reduce to in this documentary.

So this might be a good transition to the question of the Price role in this. Now from my perspective.

depressive IT, I I don't know .

that's correct or not, but from the venture to fifty years, that looks like the washington post in particular. Then broadly, the editor and the the two reporters were were burnt, drove the coverage within the other times and time in news weekend. And the at the time.

there were three networks in the dc, A, B, C, cbs, yes, there were two very powerful news weekly news magazines, time in news week both gone, and there was one nationally prominent, dominant newspaper. Then they are times, yeah. And there was the washington post.

But the other five were all. The other six were all headquartered within six blocks of each other in midtown manhattan. And there was a single narrative, nixon, crook, people guilty, and nothing to the contrary ever made IT into print so it's no wonder american citizens like nick was guilty as hell was properly caught in his people. People were properly punished .

just for people who weren't around fifty years ago and weren't working in government then. Um you're saying that those six news outlets all headquartered in mitt down manhattan, we're basically the some total of the narrative machine in the united states.

There was nothing out. There was no other point of you. There was no talk radio.

There were no podcast. There was no alternate news network. There was no talk of carleton. And now look what's happened, look what's happened to today, fifty years. We have four terms, but are newly appreciated.

Deep stay, fake news, false narrative, and most of all, law fair, the use of the law, the criminal provisions of the law, to ruin your political opponent. The word low fare is very recent, but the big bang, the creation of long fair, that was water. Again, you have the special prosecution force, one hundred people.

That's to the original table of organization and employment. Sixty of them are lawyers specially recruit to get action. The top seventeen .

burglary.

well over possibly knowing about a burglars, you, the burglars, should have been punished. The issue is, who else could we get? How could we expand a third rate burglary? That's what IT was called in the beginning, dismissed. How could we expand that to void the most popular president that we've ever seen in in an election?

I I want to get that you play. I mean, you actually participated in the whole process personally as an attack .

y not getting action with ending, i'm aware finding the .

but you had a front rosey to all of that. But I just want to linger for one moment on the question of the press. So I don't know what bob woodward is doing this week, but i'm sure he's participating in some .

sort of commemoration of his yeah strong power of the and carl .

bernstein who is like a an idiot um I know well I know both but bernstein like I don't even know how. I mean that's always ever know with this life. Um I still don't understand.

The one thing I can assess having worked in journalism over thirty years, is it's incredibly weird that they got the story doesn't make any sense to me from my knowledge of how news animations work. So what word in burnley? We're really Young.

Um burn cy a been on a reporter for a number of years, few years. Weber d had not been. He was enabled intel officer working at the pentagon, sent on a couple of occasions, at least over to the next and White house to deliver things, to do things.

yes. Um and then within like months winds up at the washing post yes, with no journal experience at all no. And then winds up with the biggest story in the modern history of journalism. What is it's not pleasant tion that's not plausible .

if you want to go back and and really look at a bowdre ard, he starts out his number two. Bernstein is the late name burn. Sting is a more experienced y and what we're done, how to write?

Okay, he just put a nail officer.

But wide word has this connection with the individual, who later is called deep truth. And we're told that word ward has a source of inside information that fuel their stories. Now, he, and to a lesser state, carl, are credited with being the greatest investigative reporters of all time. Yes, but all they did was leak information that the F, B, I had already gathered. That's not investigative reporting .

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So it's the second part of your sentence that really gives me puzzles like the FBI is a long enforcement agency. Their job is to investigate crime and to you know help prosecutors punish h the guilty. But that's not what they're doing here. They're acting as a political tool.

Is is one guy. He is later called deep throat, but its mark felt .

he was a deputy director.

deputy director, and he thinks he should have been named director to succeed je gohr. But nickson didn't do that. He named pat gray, former head of the civil division at the department of justice, as acting director.

So pet gray is useful idiot uh um and mark field sets out to undermine him at every turn in the road so pank Grace is staffed by mark fell. Mark felt started leaking stuff to bob word word to undermine felt as later the F. B, I, so he can take IT over.

So he can take IT over that his dream. That is purpose, he says. So now, what word when they do the book, they don't want to admit this all came from the FBI.

because it's so dark at that point that deep state cool against the present.

yes. But IT also undermines the narrative, the popular narrative that IT was nicks on and nixon people, somebody on nick's White house staff who was leaking to which one of the great services of all time. Well.

because it's a completely different story. If it's someone in nexus political circle, or one of his White house staff is a man of principal who can abide IT anymore, his conscience won't allowed to participate. He has to tell truth about the crime sy thing, if it's the FBI doing IT totally. Once again, it's a cool by permanent washington against an elected official. It's a .

subversion of democracy for thirty years. Bob wood, word actively supports the idea that deep throat is on the next White .

house that's lying working.

You can see IT with your own eyes. I don't know you've watch the movie recently no uh, all the president span but you know rob redford and dustin hoffman, wooden burnley are on the steps of the U. S.

Cap t. Of the library congress. They're out of leads.

They don't have any place to go and wood ward says, I have a friend at the White house and all of a sudden they started moving again. They're get more information. They're back in in control.

Next saying saying after that, uh, a wide ward calls deep throat at his office. Deep throat had never call me at the office. He is in a public phone book member glast in front of the old D B, right where black house .

is of exactly.

And he's looking up at the O V O B when he's talking to deep and deep per system coming here. But is the implication is there's no question where deep throat works. He works in the O D O B. And then there's another scene where deep throat goes to pulls out at night to go to a rfu at midnight in some basement .

garage .

and how holberg is playing in deep throat. And there's this gorgeous shot from the floor boards up, and it's deep throat in the shadows pulling out from the northwest gate of the White house to go to the medium. So there are three open and shut indications. He went deep throats on the White house staff, absolute fraud, because the truth would ruin the .

narrative well, and not just the narrative, the story against nixon. But I would also raise questions about who runs the government. Yes, I mean, the promise of our system is that the people rule with their country. And in order to enact their will, they elect their representatives up to and including the president. And the real story of water gate tells a very different tale about who runs the country, which is that the people with permanent jobs able to, nobody on fireable have all the power.

Well, then there's then there's the the idea that deep throw, i'm sorry, the bobb wod word took IT upon himself to interview grangers absolute foreboding because a granja complained to the prosecutor and said, we've been approached by these reporters. What would deny IT? Bernstein denies that they send IT or .

never directly they .

absolutely, they send edd benet Wilson s to see judge sra.

the most famous law in washington, on of the red skins.

the council to the washington post and the democratic national community, and very, very good lawyer. Think he goes to see judge src a, his best friend judge sureka has asked IT would been awaiting to be god parents to src az daughter sarka is frequently at the owner's box for the red skins game and with the owners box is fifty seats s so, uh uh ever benny ams knows how to use power, he goes to see sureka and said, you know, they tried, but they didn't really interview a grander, no harm, no foul, don't punish them twenty fourteen, a guy is doing a biography on bin bradlee.

Enter the washington .

post gives him access to his record. He finds in bradlee files seven page typed memo by coral bernstein describing his interview with the grander, open and short proof, not only did the interview a brander, but the post management know IT. You don't know for sure if I had been a way to know IT, but brightly note.

So the reason that you don't interview, not allowed to talk to grander ers is IT because I can enforce the process of endicott. So um what you have here is the new organza the washroom post ben bradley who were in bernstein not only lying about what they did but inserting themselves into the legal process.

Well.

that's like the most moral thing you can image when this.

or jeff, the books called the yours in truth, describe its chapter universe twenty fourteen, he approaches, word word is, can you explain this and word word says you would print that and I will rule in you, you, you do anything about that and you'll never work in this town again. Threats the guy over the truth coming out about illegally approaching a grater.

Kay, I just to add this kin a side bar, but I it's interesting to me, woodford for the last fifty years has remained kind of at the very top of journalism. Washington ho, he is a hero, truly. I X.

He's a fraud.

He's an other fraud, and it's proven that he's a fraud. So how you know why is every I think every present since nexon maybe not to meter just for, but the rest have all SAT with bobbed word, talk to about .

board word, who staff s have talked to about boodwar. And you know why? why? Because what was gonna a book? what? What is no one certain terms? If you refuse to talk with me, I will rule in you in the book. So you got a choice, fella. Either you talk to me or I write about you without presenting your site.

So how is that different from what the mafia used to do?

The mafia literally killed people. Yeah, windward kills reputations. Let me show you one thing, if I could and then will go there. Bob ward, word secures the first interview with the recently departed special prosecutor whose .

amis .

lyon geo worki is the second special prosecute. He didn't want to be special prosecutor. He wanted to go back home to texas.

So when the cover up trial is still going on, but the jury has been the quest red, he tended his resignation. He saw IT through nixon being named a cocontract atr nick on resigning. Nicks on being pardoned by ford.

Time to go home. The first interview after he leaves is with Bobby work, and we have bob's type notes of that interview. And in the second sentence, I happen to have IT with me right here because I work off the written record.

The second sentence of his note says, quote says, there were a lot of one on one conversations that nobody knows about, but him and the other party. That's a bizarre thing for the special prosecutor to say, how? How did you succeed? Well, there were a lot of one on one conversations with somebody that nobody knows about. He was talking about the most tude of secret nadian he had had with judge sureka. We didn't know IT at the time.

We am sure to ask you to post, but since sure of harvard loss or graduate, you'll know the answer. How can one side in a criminal proceeding meat secretly .

with the judge? Is this absolute persave violation? If you're caught, if IT becomes public, you met with a judge without the other side being present, you were off the case, you might be disparate, and the judge will be prevented from hearing that case. And he may be in pitched IT is a good.

So it's not it's not just a technical violation. IT gets to the core of huge fairness in the .

to the court of due process, goes to the absolute core of the processing. What i've uncovered smokes. What i've uncovered is written of of at least ten secret meetings between prosecutors and judge src.

A judge sirk a was a terrible judge, the most reversed in the dc circuit of petty tyrant who knew nothing about the law. He was not a bright man, naturally, time magazine named in men of the year because he was reversed most often for violating defendants, right? And you're sitting in their same. You mean to tell me you meet with other prosecutors? The prosecutors wrote descriptions of their meetings with judge sica.

But I mean, that's just absolutely not. And that was never reported by anyone.

Oh no. In fact, what happened was the three top prosecutors left early. They left before the cover up try was over, and they took their records with them, their sensitive files, and they didn't start to surface until twenty thirteen, well after these guys died and they they ended up at the national archives.

And I happen to be researching. I've spent twenty seven thousand hours researching the water gate prosecutions, reading every document, pursuing every possibility. And I was the first to see what turned out to be lonza.

Warsi is confidential water gate files. And they describe unbelievable things. They described secret meetings with the judge.

They describe political decisions that we're gonna dite republicans on very, very films the evidence, and not invite democrats on super strong evidence. Because if you invited democrats, that would a role in the narrative. In the big case, if I could. Just two, two names. Chuck coulson was perhaps nexon fierce defender, but he wasn't involved in the cover up.

So the prosecutors come in for a review, and the lead trial guys who one of them died, everybody, they said, we want to indite coulson, name him in the comprehensive cover up in diamond and and the question is asked, well, what are the ads of conviction? Well, is not that involved? The answer about fifty, fifty.

And one of the other lawyer says, well, you can't do that. That's not the standard for editing somebody. That's the standard for saying there's probable cause but we don't weird the department of justice do not let people get indeed less were very confident that a jury, knowing what we know will convict fifty, fifty is not good enough.

And then they go on to a guy name, but they died. Anyone, anyone, son. Oh, he was conducted open shot.

He played guilty to the plummer's case, so he wouldn't get sentenced by maximum john sra in the cover of case. And after that, src a announced no more play deals. All gotto come through me because I am the engine Angel. I will have justice in my court. Due process be damned.

Sounds like shrek a was a democratic partisan.

Well, he was named by ice and hour as a republican, but he acted as a democrat throughout IT would benet William was his best friend, his career mentor. And I say the council of the dnc.

and I watch .

the dnc in the washroom post. And sica was a frequent occupying at the intersection of the red skins games and and a benet wamp and his wife were god parents to the request daughter. It's also crazy. So it's not it's absolutely not.

but it's so recognizable. It's a city I recognized having about my life there. But it's where everyone knows everybody and everybody's sort of entertained and that media, politics.

government is really and everyone's kind .

of serving the same master and IT has the same instant of soft generation. So but it's crazy that the whole country could have watched this in. I guess the news coverage didn't reflect .

anyone know when the urban committee gave john immunity and he agreed to testify against niche, they had every reason in the world to have john dean portrayed as an innocent whistle blower. And they did a very good job at IT he alone or arrives to testify. And as a two hundred and forty page statement.

Now, Normally they say, thanks. Put that in the record. Summarize IT. The next couple of minutes will get to our questions.

John was allowed to read his entire two hundred and forty page statement. IT was not passed out in advance. Republicans had no chance to look at IT in advance.

And he started at two in the afternoon. So when he was through the committee adjourned, no cross examination, no opportunity to ask what an earthy he was doing. So dee's reputation is made as an innocent.

What's blow? now? The urban committee, there's striking parallels to the j six committee of today. Democrat dominance for the three.

No other topic to look into, except the seventy two campaign, not sixty eight, not sixty four, not sixty. Oh no, we don't want to go back that far. And nixon had, no, there were three republicans, but no defenders on the committee. One of the senator's low liker of connected that went on the committee for the allowed purpose of sinking Richard hard next right.

and he later became effectively a democrat. So they always tell is the most important election of your lifetime. But of course, this one actually is that's demonstrable. And it's also because IT is so important being censored at every level of the tech companies. We are thinking about this.

A couple of month ago, we thought one to get on the road, live in front of actual people, live audiences coast to coast, a nationwide tour where we can be sensor that d be good. IT would also be fun. So we're doing IT.

We're ongoing to be on stage with some of our friends of the most fasting people we know, the most recognizable people we know, responding to what is happening in amErica this september in real time. It'll be just like the podcast, but it's going to be live. So we're excited to answer our friend Larry elder is coming to Johnson in malawi was concern our friend john rich will be there with us in sunrise, florida, writing more stops.

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Um low p wiki my former neighbor in washington um .

and how Baker of in washington and bell haven well uh john dean owe the towns in old town yeah on coil square street hike around the town house two or three doors up he bought t dee's townhouse to get dean enough money to enable deem to relocate to barely hills I have the dead from john .

to low hiker and his .

so why ker describes in his bookies is walk out from a restaurant he said dinner with him and he says, what else can we do you know to run nickem dane says his taxes dean had his taxes because he was council to the president. Magically they lake whole new investigation. Did Richard nixon pay properly? Pay taxes? Just unbelievable.

So IT really is like having this training on the committee.

IT is absolutely no. Now go back.

I wish I i'd understood all of this .

during the january. Well, yeah. But see you you would be making points nobody would believe. I mean, as we started out this discussion, the special prosecutor, the top seventeen lawyers all worked together in rubber candidate's department of justice. This was a constitutional inversion for the people who lost power.

With next s election, one thousand sixty eight suddenly are in charge of investigation and prosecution. They announced at the first press conference they will investigate every allegation of wrong doing about nicks on since he took office in nineteen nineteen sixty nine. Th so what we originally characters ed as a third rate burglary um um maybe so uh suddenly had been used as the boats strap to launch investigations of every aspect of the next administration just unbelievable and they were .

they certainly did um the first seventeen noth how many laws were there? They how sixty lawyers working full time on especially .

recruit because they hated nixon. The archibold xy is the first special prosecutor. He's a labor lawyer from Harry. He hires as his first higher James voorn bird who teaches criminal nberg, does two things.

He says, i'm gonna staff this place and i'm only onna hire people I know so we don't have to worry about fulfilld investigations. We've tt a get this thing up and run in and i'll take that back. Notes.

background checks. Yeah.

background checks have time for that. Yeah outtake responsibility for keeping notes of how things unfold. So I can write the report when we're done because they didn't know they'd win.

So IT takes notes at every staff meeting in by hand. He takes them back to harvard. They didn't become available to public researchers until twenty fifteen.

How is that?

Well, harvard didn't make them available. I'd go up. I'd go say that there, the harvard treasure room in the harvard law library. I know the director well. And I would say where his papers, he's dead. He died a long time ago, and I had a sentence in my second book and I said, harvard won't won't disclose and I called up to be sure the footnote was still valid. And they said, all we just opened them.

So I went up and I ask you again to see who makes that decision.

which heck out of me.

somebody is. These are all, I mean, these were lawyers being paid for with textiles, correct?

Oh, absolutely, on government time, right? Well.

you know, so why does harvard have a right to keep documents produced our expense secret in their archive? Like, I don't. I don't get that at all.

Well, on the harvard story, I came down and told the archives. They ve got these records. And the archives is chicken to go chAllenge harvard, go demand those papers. Harvard.

the the national cups.

federal cups, federal or cups. Now, jersey papers, he took him back to text. You're supposed to .

take papers. Talker.

you absolutely. But joe didn't say, you see how that works out trapped. But joe didn't that that kind of like water again.

Yeah, I say we say law fair didn't start with trump. The origin of affair was want to get where every decision was made against nixon and his people. I told you, chuck coulson, who should never been edited. Well, Howard hunt lawyer bill bien was a very prominent democrat or democrat icon, is guilty as hell. He was run in the cover up from the lawyer's point of view, never indeed in in in the notes in the meetings where they're making those decisions. The prosecution team says his guilty S L, and lay on Georgey, whose a taxi, a lindon Johnson protester, says, no, if we didn't a bit man in loan, you've got ta be positive that is guilty before our sign in endangered in light of what is done, it's in the note in in light of what is done for us as democrats, I don't want him and died IT. So again, open and shot in writing documents showing political persuasion who got indeed in and who doesn't.

So i'm just fascinated by, there were sixty lawyers paid for by taxpayers.

I have their names in my first book.

And who are some of them, right?

And if they are not famous.

and there are .

famous members of our class, but they weren't involved in water, gah, kimbo ood is a, uh.

second circuit judge. Kimber wood .

was crime court no be be .

ternate general.

I'm so so prety you've capelin look camplin is the one who recently decided the um curl gene defamation case where that the s series do o and he was one of .

the sixty layers.

No, he's in my harvard loss. Go sorry.

No, no, no.

I'm we're trying to get famous lawyer. Y I mean, bill, bill will. Now this is a perfect example of what happened to me, bill wills in my class, or within a year to when I would go out and crew you row for relaxation on the child forever.

I'd checked the shale out of the wild house. O yeah, there are three billions on the harvard campus named after wed. His the eighteenth well to attend harvard and here comes jeff jeff from nowhere out of hitting your college and the urban ranch I mean, just, uh, a thrown in alliance then with a preppies and the guys who went to the White shoe schools oh.

not the puppies, not like you. so. Well, is a battle on, unfortunately, sad by phone. But to the sixty, I just keep live. There were sixty lawyers on this case against nickson that just seems like an extraordinary large number of lawyers.

Well, they stopped announcing them. The reason is able to piece IT together is they show and they report the names of the staff, but they don't include whether they were a lawyer or not. So you've got a google each and every name and see if you can come up with, uh, somebody from harvard or yale and .

who were were they all would you say democratic .

partisans but I had to be to get hired there's one guy who's nominally a republican feel luck of ara um but he's never been in a republic and administration it's very strange how could you say, yes, i'm a die hard republican, but you've never served well.

You bring that guy in for the same reason you bring this training .

to say this is well expect of was number one in his class at columbia and is coming from the slicer general office and his ranking number two and a half in the special prosecutors office. He takes his files with him when he leaves, and I still alive. He quits flame bently over the nick over the ford pardon.

And he says, I will not be a party to prosecute nixon staff when nixon got off Scott free. Now that's a man of principle but he's the one that wrote the memo that said, you can't endre check colson on a fifty fifty assumption of conviction. He's the one that write a memo.

I have all this because he gave them back in twenty twenty, gave them all the files you taken with him back to archives. And I happen to be having lunch with the archivist, most responsible for the prosecutors documents. And he said, we got feel luck of our papers and I said, you need a fire request.

I'd love to look through them he said, you don't have to. He just gave them to us. We've gotten now when you look at them, when you get to look at the original, you know, i'm not going to destroy anything.

It's obviously, i've been stored in the basement somewhere because the staples have rusted a little bit and stained the paper. So they've gone through IT and they've they've made photocopies. So you're not looking at the actual originals.

But he has one memo in there saying we just got the dissent on the effort to get sarka thrown off the case and it's a good dissent. And i'm really worried about that issue. The issue of cual.

We should never have let sureka name himself to preside over the second trial. But since we've crossed that bridge, there's no note turn in back now. So you can say in writing, even the top prosecutors knew so rica should not have been allowed to a point himself to presides over the trial.

When he did we object. We took IT up on appeal. It's too tainted. You can use them. And the A, C, L, U have made IT in a makeup.

Ef, the american civil liberties union, and said, we put this briefing because the defendants deserve an unbias judge, and they've asked for hearing on whether sra has met privately with the prosecutors. Now we know he'd made at least seven times with these prosecutions. He'd met with cox.

He'd met with silbert. He met with George is absolutely crazy, is actually crazy that they wrote mammals about IT. And we went up to the court and said, we're going going to have this hearing and the court rules. This is the dc circuit without allowing the opportunity for all argument in a peculium that's unsigned. One sentence holding motioned I cannot have an evidence here .

fixes in you .

know why the fix was in IT just IT gets IT gets worse and worse. Archibald cox, the first special prosecutor, became so worried that sick was doing these crazy rulings on behalf of the prosecutors that they'd win at trial, but lose on appeal. He was the most perverse judge on appeal because of his ignorance.

Ua, unacceptable ly of defendants rights. So cox goes to see the chief judge of the dc circle, David mansong, and he says, I tell you what, there's five liberals on your court and there's four non labels. At the nine men court, the Normal appeal will be heard by three judges.

That's how we do appeals. You're guaranteed and appeal. But as three judges, we could end up with two republicans and maybe src a would be overturned.

These are crazy rulings. But if you hold all hearings on crick's cases and bunk the whole nine judges, then you'll always be in control. And sureka can always be appealed OK. So you can look at the twelve criminal appeals from judge to rica never before, or sent in any federal court in our nation history. They're all heard in book from the very outset.

never done before. So online judges here, everyone, because the partisan break down guarantees that circle will be upheld .

every time you've got in bathroom.

What was his route was at his suggestion.

he's cheap. Judge, well, cocks goes to see bus line. okay. Now, what is best to life and corrupt?

That sounds like a corrupt conversation .

is absolutely corrupt. But when IT spice to life is the long clerk is in the room, the low clerk hears this conversation, how to stack the deck on appeal. The bedroom doesn't agree, but he follows through later when the appeals come.

That long clerk told one person next week and reconstruct. This has been a lot of effort. One person and that person was about to be sworn in to the dc circuit.

And he said, you know, there was this one time when the court corruption really came through, that judge told me that story. Me told me that story on june seventeen, eight, two thousand and eight in the lobbies of the metropolitan club. My book was coming out that day, and I happened to run into the judge.

Good friend. I'll tell his name in a minute, good friend. And and he was gonna to the book launch that which was being held at the spy museum.

And my first book was gonna fun. And he and he said, you know what happened? What happened is cox went to see bas lan and told her how to stack the deck.

And I said, by god, that's the missing link. It's what you mean. I said, well, i've got of these crazy decisions by sureka, but he was always upheld on appeal, and I can't figure that out.

He said, well, now you do, but don't quote me, this is a, this is a sensitive, isn't in the lobby of the meta pone club. This is a private conversation. I don't want the heat from telling you that story. So in two .

thousand eight, referring back to one thousand seventy three or four .

four wow Price seventy three.

seven three yeah um and he's still worried .

about IT oh, very much so now the you reveal guy is a car. First thing might be might be a Robert, might be bob bill, but his last name, car C A R R. And he was best lan's lockt.

The judge is Larry superman. No, oh, most prominent republican on the dc circuit. He was deputy attorney general during water gates unfolding and laran, I talked every day, regardless of the crisis, what a nice man he was, was a wonderful person.

Regardless of the crisis, the White house has to talk to the department of justice. Their stuff that can be put off and there, and I would kill each other, that we held the nation together during the worst days toward the end of of water. Again, talk every day.

I begged Larry to let me get somebody else who the the locked talk his moscow roommate was on the dc circuit and a ginsberg dd ginseng er and Larry said i've checked he didn't tell insider now what about his wife? His wife was a lawyer. If he told jill, he told somebody else.

He said, now didn't happen. So I view the wife, didn't know. Think about IT. So I put IT in the .

book without give my wife.

No, no, no. Well, the locked. Ks, yeah, look, looks right. So I put the comment in the book without attribution that the fix was in years, go back and my third book comes out, and I go down to see Larry is a good friend and and I say, Larry out what I want you to do.

He is call up my garlan and tell him, I know what i'm talking about, the department of justice, look into this stuff. This, the stuff i've uncovered is incredible. He says, i'm not talking to him. I don't like what he's done, but i'll tell you what i'll do.

What you want do is have the federal society put on a seminar about this, about what you've discovered and he's on the board and I said, will you participate and he looks off and this this year, i'll participate in your seminar so we get ready and it's unfilled is available. And he says, now what do you want me to say other than the baseline event? He is now eager to get that on the record.

And we have IT on film. Any describes just what I told you that the clerk was there, the set of cox, when in the set up. And then he says, now i've asked today's clerk of court for the record, you don't just move to go in bunk from the beginning without a vote of the judges.

There's got to be discussion. And I asked the clerk for the record, and he said, the clerk took a long time look, and I came back and he said, there's no record. I've never seen anything like this before in my life. Baas lan just did IT without notice to the minority .

judges that is so corrupt for a prosecutor to rig the appeals process with the judge is just africa. I mean, that's just next long. yes. So what role did Hillary clinton then Hillary rodoin play in work?

Get well. There's a book. The book is called um the crime uh without honor the crimes of camila and the fall of Richard nixon written, uh, in the ninety eighties by the former chief council of the house judiciary committee and he describes terrible things about Hillary clinton and and the one that I find the most interesting, she's a very recent graduates yl, Hillary radom and he says the staffer running the impeachment in orge honor was the hole gan to a professor yellow school burke Marshall, who was going to be ted Kennedy, attorney general, if he won. okay.

So Hillary rodman was a recent gratitude of ye and he was a go between SHE was Carrying messages back and fourth between these two people but and, and, and he did things that were hugely political. For example, the republican minority on the impeachment inquiry kept demanding comparability. What abound acts by other president? You say nicks on abused power that is responsible for abusive power.

What about other questions? How did they respond to allegations of abuse? So hillers assign the project.

SHE goes back up to yale and lines up the chairman of the yale history department, c. Van woodward. And he gets four other history professors.

And they work around the clock to research and write up every president from london Johnson back to George washington, uh, and how they interacted with the congress. And of course, there's always tension between the two branches. Allegations of abuse.

Thomas jeffson won't build the submarine. Well, that abuse, we gave the money. You can't sequester.

Uh, he wants to fire somebody. Well, we like that body. We don't want him to fire them. So they produce this manuscript, which looks too good for rico nickem IT says these tensions between the two branches have gone on since its founding, so they suppress IT. They do not share IT with the republican minority, particularly a conscious wagons out of california who is nexus principle defender on the house judiciary.

And this is a document produce with federal money.

Oh, absolutely without question. I don't know that they paid them, but Hillary trips back and all the communication.

But it's part is part of the the the judicial justice system.

Well, yes, but this is the implement inquiry.

of course. But .

project, surely, and IT never comes up. We decided IT wouldn't be helpful for them to see this. That's what radio and Hillary say months later.

The professors are pretty damn proud about their work problem. You know, they did this big study and they published as a book. I have nowhere. I happened to have a copy of the book.

Responses of the presidents to charges of misconduct with the c van would writing the introduction interesting. Does that come out before nixon's resignation?

Oh, after after, of course. Of course, IT comes out after IT would have been helpful if I had come out before.

So Hillary clinton works for who?

Technically, he reports to john door, who is the head of the combined in pitchman staff. I think there were forty five lawyers on the combined in patching staff. I think they were specially hired by door.

The person you, anna read, is a lady named or not an add ler, who who was on the staff at the time, then went to a, and then became a writer. And he wrote one article about the first year reunion of the impeachment staff. And SHE said, you know, seems to be, in retrospect, IT was something of cover of, nobody told us about what came out into the church committee.

The church committee was a water gate reform. Yes, to look into the abuse and misuse of the C. I. A. And the FBI they they looked international and domestic um and he says the only thing I can think was we were part of a cover up because we weren't told about any of that and that would have changed everything and then there's another article SHE did when he was editor of new york magazine and he wrote a book about the last great days of the new york magazine and SHE said in the book, I refuse to run a review of john crick's book because he was so corrupt and his son was working for news day and the new york times and others responded badly and pilatre and so SHE liked her wounds and then he published an article just dumping all over john's sra. You know, his parents were boat intentionally toss the third thirteen cases he was supposed to try under the of all start act he dropped out a law school twice. He was an organizer of boxing matches in the dist which when I was the illegal um he is just a terrible, terrible guy so if you want to know more .

a criminal what that .

does sounds like he did criminal activities. He, he said that nobody was more surprised than he was when he passed the world. He had already moved to florida a to resume his semi probosced career.

And then he shows up. He shows up as this petty tyran, you know. And he does all this really strange rulings as a judge. He means well of sad at the prosecutors table.

So what is this? I mean, this is also amazing. I thought any a lot about this. I didn't. Um as you've watched the criminal prosecution of Donald rum as he becomes republican ini, you noticed similarities, ties between what you'll see now .

and what you saw fifty years yeah I call them parallels but but it's it's it's just unbelievable the parallels and and and I don't like to write about trm because I don't have any any insight information yes but the suspicion is there based on what i've proven about what happened in action. So the j six committee, j six committee is loaded with democrats. Trump has no representative on the command omino republicans.

but no defend iam kings.

They don't. they? They don't look at why the capital was unguarded.

They started a certain point and go forward, they've misplaced or lost records that would would appear to be helpful to trump people. But oh, they're gone. We don't have those interviews and the charges.

This is I think this is astonishing, astonishing. the. Trump is tried in new york and and they've ta get a felony in order to have an extended a statute limitations.

This is the fixes in from the beginning, but defenders don't know the charge against trump until the prosecutors sation at the end of the trial. Yes, you fake your your accounting, but there has to be another felony and they didn't name the other felony. So today it's one of three doesn't have to be a majority the year.

That's what I turn appeal. The prosecutors decided in a secret meeting with Sarah ka that the law was too unclear as to whether you could indeed a city president. It's assumed today, but there's no decision.

So they decided, rather than litigate that, let's take all the evidence that we've gathered to an der nixon send IT to the house judiciary committee so they can impeach Richard nixon. Now there's different standards on on entitled. Only prosecutors have access to grand juries.

Grand juries are something like a star chAmber. Uh, uh, it's conducted in secret. Your atterley can't be in the room with you.

You can't put on your own evidence. You can't cross exam and witnesses, you don't know what they'd said about you when you get there. You don't know what they said about you when you leave.

So IT is a horror show. If IT becomes used for political purposes, congress doesn't have access to a grand jury. So congress in its investigations is limited.

Here's the specially recruit special prosecutors. And they say, what we know the house judiciary can't find out. We could only do IT with a grand jury now parallel to your grand jury Operating and secret and gotto stay secret forever.

What the witnesses say, you know what you? What happens in vegas stays in vegas? Yes, by federal law, exceptions. I know, know what, in essence, no exceptions. But when you go to prove that in court, same evidence, the six hundred and six amens come into play.

Yes, got to be sworn testimony, got to be evidence, got to be cross examination, got to be a public trial, got to be a jury of your peers. All this stuff so IT baLances out, even though the grand jury is a holy terror, particularly if you're call that, I don't know you have, i've never been called in front of the grand jury, but terrify you. What the prosecutors worked out really was, let's send our evidence up to the house judiciary committee, and we will call IT a presentment.

Because the fifth amendment, as you can be charged a federal crime except by presentment or entitled of a grand jury, nobody y's really sure what present that means. So that call at present was ended up now for just for a second. Assume what the grand jury knows is garbage is untested.

okay? IT shouldn't be and should never see the light of day. If it's going to, it's got to have the counter tests.

But they sent IT the house judiciary, and they say, oh no, god, to be secret can't be revealed to anybody. So nixon defenders don't know what he's been charged with. Kind at a nowhere, he is charged an uninvited coffee spirit in the water, get cover up.

Both special prosecutors said publicly, we would never do that to action because he's named, but he can't come in the court to defend himself because he's not charged. He's unended. But they did IT anyway, and they sent IT up there to the hill.

Secret accusations of what nixon did to cause them to name him. echo. That document is called the road map.

Now, the road map is an outline of fifty five pages. fact. John dinis named council to the president. Underlying citation. John dee, grand jury testimony, k.

Fact set, fact set ation fifty five pages, but if you print out the locations, mainly to water gate tapes or granular testimony, two reams of paper, I tell you, nobody read the sitting they just took. The fact is fact. They couldn't prove nation had done anything wrong.

They couldn't prove that nixon was personally involved in the cover. Okay, so they lied. They lied about IT. They faked their evidence. And IT wasn't until twenty eighteen, as a result of my court petition that barl hol, then chief judge, unsealed the roadmap.

So for the first time in forty five years, we could learn what niche was accused of having done that justified his then his removal, but at the time, his entitlement. Nothing short of incredible. And i'm the only one you know you you get the impression i've drilled pretty deeply in this stuff.

I'm the only one that had the knowledges to go back through and check all the locations and then cover, wait down in one of them. They fake IT. But what so interesting .

is like they removed the president, zed states, and nobody thought demand. And the answer to the most simple question, which is, what exactly did you .

do wrong forty five .

years to find out we were .

told that was there, trusted and move on. Now we washington post, and we spend a lot of time on this. And it's complicated as that can be. We help is on the way the fifty of anniversary is the eighth of of August and where we've produced and we're releasing in our long documentary that summarizes all this over the years, i've written three books. One is concentrating on the Kennedy people and how they orchestrated this.

One is concentrating on the lonza work's internal files that described these secret meetings in one centers on the roadmap and the fact that the congress was lied to and and is complex. And people can read the books, but they really have to watch the movie, and the movie is going to come out on our website, I, A water gates secret dot com. And that old, the documentation want to gate secrets and betrays orchestrating nixons demise.

And it's narrated by john al harley. And the genius is the guy who wrote IT George bai, because he took my hugely detailed legal expressions, and he put him in the language that americans can understand, hit the high point so you can get an appreciation of what was going on. Now, we got there.

This is funny. We got there because he wanted to produce a play on nixon impeachment. Okay, and here's the playbill. IT played off broadway in August twenty twenty one.

And and if you think about IT first, second, you reduce all my books to an hour and a half play. You've gotto pick out the highlights in the words and be persuasive, uh, without taking up too much time. Now what we've done, same thing, same people, is produce a serious documentary on those documents.

And we started with a set of twenty four that I put together for a production we did for the hover institution about a year ago. And they are twenty four internal memo that trace the the export meetings, which are terribly wrong, the suppression of evidence that would have been helpful to the defense, the political naming of of defendants. Uh we only name republicans. We don't name democrats. All laid out uh um in these twenty four worst mammals and we took a selection of that to put in the documentation.

Can I ask you um thank you for saying that and i'm going to watch IT. Um I have two more questions for you, both broader questions, let's precise. First is what did nexon think of all of this to any idea?

He went to his grave, not knowing what have had been done to him, one of the great disappointments in life, not even suspecting what had been done. And so did a look, man in all men. So did the, a large extent, checking costs.

Chuck died much later, but I uncovered what was simply not no, no, I I grant you your knowledge of and interest in the brain and and and looks peculiar yeah good questions. But that's not what sunk Richard nixon. What song? Richard nixon was hugely biased. La fair, the perversion of the criminal justice system designed to drive nixon from office, to avoid israel action and and to imprison his topic and and nixon .

didn't understand that.

No, no.

What did he think happened?

Well, I tell you what I thought, and maybe that's what he thought until I discovered these documents, I thought of water gate as a tragedy. Let me, let me reach you the definition of a greg tragedy.

K, uh, uh, in poetics aristotle book, he defines the ideal tragic hero as a man who's highly renowned and prosperous, but not one who is preliminary, virtuous and just whose miss fortune is Brown up on him, not by vice or the privity, but by some era of judgment or frailty. And and then that's next time and then the there's the interpretation of shake experience tragedy which envisions are setting in which a moral order react violently and invoice vely against certain infractions. From this reaction comes the calamity, which befalls the hero frequently way out of proportion to the infection itself.

And within this calamity the there is a dominating impression of waste. Now you could say that's that's what to get to and that's what I believed. I thought I should have resigned. I believed the smoking gun, said what was was properly interpreted as as being a part of the cover up. Uh, and then I started discovering this document and and youth.

I picture myself sometimes as a monk, you know, sitting up on a high top desk monastery in the midst ages, with a candle here, going through dusty manuscripts and discovering what we've been told is the opposite of what was written down at the time. The mammals that i've uncovered are nothing short of incredible. And and what distinguishes my work from allegations, from suspicions today is i've got this paper trail, but nobody can refuse.

These documents are either at the national archives, uh uh released on on on on on the web. You can go freedom uh, or up at harvard who would question harvard. But they are hand, they are handy notes from from James foreign bird.

But did I mean, did your speaks in next and left office?

I did not. I went out first ground breaking. I went out for his funeral. I decided IT was Better not to remind him, uh, uh, of my role on on his defense thing now he, I member, i'm just a staff for i'm just a kid, right? But he knew who I was.

There's this one happy sequence where Jerry ford gets my name wrong and nicks and correct him in the cabinet room on on on on my name so with that pretty proud moment ah there's another segment in the in the cabinet room when we have the republican leadership up and and nicks on is this gets an odd feeling every once and he starts talking about these really bright lawyers who are on the staff. And jeff shepherd, in particularly just he worked so hard and he's so bright and he goes on and on and on and tom collogue, that recently passed away, great guy, starts writing down this fake newspaper called leader news and he's got a picture, is this shepherd star rises enorme sly. So he's got a handwritten shepard with a crook in the shape of a star and IT says, president praises shipper d forty times the cabinet is at risk sheep is gonna get a suffered car bigger office I just and IT was embarrassing. But IT IT just stoked my eager and I did .

so bit nicks on, I mean, I didn't know Richard nixon 嗯， but now he did a several interviews, famous ly with David for but others where this came up and he seemed not very bitter about IT or .

not but that self control yeah ah you know one of the really interest things about exxon. He's in the ministries in the navy, goes to the front pacific and and he set up a hamburger stand al's come to but he plays poker and he comes home with ten thousand dollars of winning from poker that finds his first campaign OK. Now, to be that good, you gotten, be able to read people, and you gotto prevent people from reading you.

And and nobody writes about that. They don't understand. And and for nixon, IT was self control. So he says, I don't blame john in for doing what he did that I brought down the presidency.

But he makes himself say that now on his final speech on the morning where he's gonna get on the helicopter, it's he's announced iy before he's gonna going to resign, he's saying goodbye to his staff. And I was, I was there pretty bitter because of that tape, but he says, you know, you, you just can't be Better. If you're bitter, if you return hatred, then you lose and the hatred will consume you.

And at the time I was just pao, you know, what do you say? But he was been sincerely, really believe that a couple of the truth, if I may, nickson believed the truth was gonna come out without question when he would allude to his prosecution or exposure of alter. Hz is a communist spy in nineteen forty six, forty seven his the statuted run on his being a communist.

What botched his up was uh, his perjured testimony. Yeah, so nixon would save from then on. Remember out your his anything you do, don't perjure yourself and what that takes, he says, because then you got two problems.

You got the original problem, and you get the problem that you purchase yourself. So I know if people from the reelection committee had come in which they didn't, and said, what do I do? He was for god, six. Don't like, you know that. Just dig you in deeper.

He was told by john dean after the, after the brain that nobody on the White house staff knew completely claim they built their whole defensive on that he didn't neglected to remind them about his meetings in the eternal general office. Yes, so they were they were nation filed to the last day. We could put out a statement saying i'm not involved and neither of my two top of ten is all the other when they knew nothing.

But then the game changed and dying to get out, to get out from under pieces on. But there was a cover up. I know there was a cover up because I was running IT and my word against there.

There's no taping system with those guys, but you should trust me. I don't see how you protect yourself from that. No, I mean and they were hated in the press well and that's my .

last question and has to the next and um not just during water gate or after seventy two reelection, but really for the scope of his reer going back to his the his case, which I might be answered my question. But the hatred of Richard nixon um was like pathological. I I I don't know how many books hating nick and came out nixon is monster, not evil. What was that why the mono maniacal .

hatred ever? Well let's hurt today just a second yes, an assassination attempt. Worried there may be more.

I don't think people thought somebody was going take a shot at. They hate to them. They blamed him. They dismissed him as a criminal. But he couldn't go out in public because because he was so, so dislike. But I think they felt Richard nick on the man was the cause of all their problems with the dominance of the democrats party. Let me show you what I mean.

Here's A A charge is to believe that nixon was cause of their problems as well.

They were. They were fading in dominance OK, okay, so this church shows the presidency in the control of the house, in the senate. Red is republican. Blue is democrat from nineteen thirty two.

right? This going back to the first years of the depression.

And when IT shows, of course, and they had three force of the house and senate, a rose belt reelected four times, and and just when truman became president, they won republicans one for one session. And when icon hour was elected, they won for one session. And those are the red blocks at the bottom.

But then IT reverted the total democrat control, and the gold water tobacco in one thousand nine and sixty four, gave the democrats two thirds majority in both the house and the senate. They ruled. And who interrupt that will reach your next forget ice in hour.

He was a war hero he could have on a democrat who did his dirty work. Richard nick, you could believe, I think wrongly, but you could believe, if you were a democrat, that if you could get rid of nick, the main, you would all go back to democrats dominance, which shes what IT should be. You know.

that's what he was in the way.

is what he was certainly in the way. Now, what they did, my first book about the Kennedy people, they set out to have three goals. They wanted to rule in next in his people.

okay. They wanted to stop the republican money machine. In those days, republicans had all the money. Democrats had all the unions. There was a campaign committee set up in nineteen twenty seven day media elections designed to elect more conservatives, whether they were democrats to the republicans. And they raised a fairmont of money.

But democrats investigated that a part of what they're gonna do, and they sent F B I agents or irs agents out to interview one hundred and fifty republican donors to this nineteen seventy group called the tower house project because IT turned out IT didn't have a registered campaign. Treasure kay, nothing to do with water again. At the time, there was a federal law on campaign called the corrupt practices act of one thousand and twenty five.

IT wasn't enforced anymore. The last prosecution was brought in one thousand nine hundred and thirty four. The department of justice testified in one thousand hundred and seventy two that they had a policy of non enforcement.

But the special prosecutors we erected IT send their million out, scared the living, the jesus out of donor s now, if the irs came to see you is a prominent donor next time around, you wouldn't play. So they crippled the republican money machine. And then they launched investigations, internal investigations of every single potential republican distance for president in nineteen, nineteen seventy six, who would run against.

They assumed ted Kennedy. So they had Jerry ford full field investigations. They didn't do them.

But ford had to be confirmed by both in the house, in the senate. IT was the most thero FBI investigation. They had the investigation. His a vice process was Nelson rocke ella. They had an investigation of elson rock filler.

what? Well the allegation was, the allegation was he had given money in support of the govern to throw the case on the democrats side and and I mean, you talk about that those records the investigating this ford toast roca fella in named bob doll as is running make. There's an investigation of bob do and and bob do had campaign irregularities.

And finally, oh, john conley, they indeed john calling for campaign abuse will bankrupt to them in the end. Well, they do. And then and then there's round reagon government of tea forna a three thousand miles away. There's no file on round arragon.

But there's a memo that I published I put in my first book and and the prosecutor says, I just want to follow up on our hallway conversation and bring you up to date a and where we are on the investigation of runagate. Now I look into IT member ross baro very well. He had, what was that? His is a computer company, H E E T S.

E T S. He wanted .

contracts from medicare. He got process the stuff, yeah. And he asked congress for help in getting those appointments to make his pitch. He didn't get them first time around.

But he also wanted california because IT was huge and the theory was he might have exercise undo influence in trying to get the california contract. We're just going to look into IT just because he might be our opponent if you know you sit there and they cross your hair. So let me ask one last question.

I said I would only ask one more, but here's my last question. So you show up in one thousand nine hundred and fifty nine as a White house fell with the maxon White house. Yes, it's less than six years after the murder of china of Kennedy um and you know you're in the building that Kennedy worked in did anyone talk about that in one thousand nine hundred and sixty nine through seventy five and left to anybody said and I think .

this warm commission things a little weird no that never came up in in my person ever what we did talk about was nixon's absolute paranoia that ted Kennedy would emerge as his opponent in one thousand hundred and seventy two and they would steal his real election just like they steal one thousand nine hundred and sixty but I can't remember a single conversation about the warm commission.

How interesting .

even when Jerry, I know you say, you know Jerry forgot d named he was on the warm commission and and of course, the island spector single bullet theory is simply bizarre because .

are simply bizarre.

But well, yes, on his coat in the hospital but no discussion but member, i'm i'm very junior. I'm part of the governance group, of course. No no campaigning. I'm hatched. I never participated in any campaign and it's absolute fluke that I got hired to do governance issues.

Well, that's why you're still .

here on board.

But can I ask you so you say now i'm keep on writing my place now to ask you your questions but okay, this is last one to you said nick was worried that can he would run against him in seventy two instead of a govern and that they were still the election as they had in one thousand nine sixty? Yes, two partner is did next sincerely believe that the sixty election stone from him and did and was IT well, he .

believed there were grounds for investigation and he was urged even by is a nice and hour to chAllenge the outcome member its illinois and .

the late .

baLance from their daily well and texas where interesting the longest ski leads that the defense and claims in texas. There's no law, there's no standing to come into taxes and claim the election was stolen, that it's a fascinating compact lens.

Ky, the special prosecutor .

before this is in ninety.

Ultimately, the one who brought down next was fourteen years before leading the defense. Yes, of jack .

Kennedy. Leon jerky was captured by his staff. He went in and wanted to conduct a fair criminal investigation. That's what do he was hard to do.

And he actually writes S A memo to his deputy and says, this place has got one theme that nick on must be reached at all cost. Those are those words at all cost. I can't even work with a stand.

You guys are having meetings before you meet with me. So I only get one point of you. I'm not gonna meet with you anymore.

And then and then he gets roled by his staff. So we're asked him for two things. Last, last answer, kay, we have a documentary.

The documentary details everything that that has been done is not thero. But boy touches on the big stuff. Got three books.

Three books contain all the documents were talking about, and many more. So what? What do we want from this interview? From knowledge the occurred? We want two things.

One, we want the department of justice to go in and disclose what the grand jury was told to convince them to name next son, echo conspirator. We've been demanding that since they did IT for fifty years. We've said, tell us what you told the grantees because we don't think you had anything on technician. Maybe they won't do IT.

You can compel them. You can't compile them.

No brand juries love to help you, son, but grand jury information stay secret forever. That's the law. But I thought when I brought my suit, if when I brought my suit to disclose the road map and I prevail, the judge at the same time said he was gonna rule a against ed, my motion to disclose the grand jury testimony. So the department of justice called me and said, we've been asked to prepare the order finding again still on that part of your petition and I said, but i'm not looking for a witness. This is what the department .

said so that that was my question. Such point. I mean, one thing to protect, yes, what the grand agers say, their citizens, you've been brought in to affect justice, one hopes.

But there is no justification for keeping what government prosecutors say about an american citizen. Why should ever be secret? right?

Right, right? The judge, chief judge, told the department she's gonna rule against me. So I said, what? I made the case big to them.

I say, okay, what if I withdraw? So if there's not a decision against me, there's just no decision. And they eagerly accepted that. So today, as we sit here, we don't know what they told. The grander an accuse IT and Richard action of an initial offence.

pretty much everyone's did well.

well, yeah. But we still want to know second thing. There is a post water gate reform at the department of justice, a unit set up whose only responsibility is to investigate allegations of wronging doing by justice department lawyers is called the office of professional responsibility was founded the year after after water, again, not didn't exist, doing what IT I learned about IT about a year and a half ago.

I immediately filed asking for a review of the prosecutors. Look what they did. And I followed IT up with eleven letters.

Let me come down and explain. This is complex. I got all the paper.

Please let me come make the case. One year passes, I get a letter. Thank you for your interest in the enforcement of the laws. We have been a long time. These lawyers aren't here anymore. We're busy doing other things, and we take no responsibility for the special prosecutors because subsequent to the special prosecution force, they enacted the independent council law and we deem them to have Operated under that the department of justice is simply not involved. And I sent it's posted on my website and I sent back a letter and I said, here's your stationary for your letters and your internal memo saying, department of justice, of course, don't tell me you don't take so what we hope to interest in anger, the american public, look at what we've uncovered, watch the documentary, read the books, go on my website and look at all the documents. We hope there is a new administration at the department of justice who is willing to look into this because if they look into IT, you know it's .

open and sure just disclosed disclosed you you're good at looking and do IT.

Obviously.

jeff, I I really appreciate your taking on this time.

explaining that this has been fun. I appreciate the opportunity talk. Thank you.

amazing. Thank you for having me out. Thank you.

Thanks for listen and stuck across some show. If you enjoy IT, you can go to stuck across and that calm to see everything that we have made the complete library cross.

dock.