Eduardo Bolsonaro & Paulo Figueiredo
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In lesson, two years ago, we went to brazil to cover the presidential election. Then in progress, the incumbent president was running against the former present convicted file, very close to the government of china.

And as you wander around the country, went to its bigger cities, you really got the feeling, if this election goes to lua, this place is going to, and very sure are become a police state, people gonna to jail, democracy is going to end. The media will no oney be able to report honestly and openly, and the chinese government will have undue influence over brazil. That's a big deal, not just for brazilians, but for the united states, because brazil is the most significant country in the america's.

After this one, it's huge. It's got an enormous natural resources. It's got a well eco population. There's a lot in brazil.

And so if IT to sends into darkness, that's a problem not just for brazil, but for every country in this hemisphere. So the question is two and a half years later, a year and a half later, rather, what happened in brazil? Lula, one in an election that was very obviously rigging and what happened to the country.

So we thought you get an update now, with a water able narrow, he is the sun of the former present. He is very well and legislature in brazil. And he joins this unset.

Now the world. Thanks so much for coming on. Thank you. Look, so looking down from here from advantage of thousands miles but um at brazil, IT looks like it's no longer a .

free country. Sure, not anymore. We have people get up sincere, not only social media, you have people excEllent living here, united states. For example. I'll tell you the names, you have no doubt about what i'm talking about. Hoodia question, polish geral island of sons are three journalists that are living here, united states and as this, but they're brazilian journals .

who cover brazilian politics. But they are living here. Why are they hear?

Because they cannot work any morning. Brazil, and also because you always have the risk of be arrested. Bright, the supreme court, and to be honest, not the whole supreme court, but one justice called a election.

Alice. He had opened an investigation for more than five years, persecuting, usually conservatives. So this is gentled island. And to the point of question, they are living here because they are shut up.

Down in brazil is more is this juice? He cannot even let this person has a tweet or or fixed book account in brazil. If you are embrace you and you went to see what they are posting, you need to turn on .

your VPN or be outside of the, okay. So the by administration is a great protector, or of democracy, and human rights are around the world, he tells that every day. And yet their close ally, the lua government, is shutting down press freedom and forcing journalists into exile. Have they said anything about this as the state department complained about any of .

I never listen something about that um but what do we are doing? We are receiving some support from uh, our other congressman from the republican party, for example, markey, Greener, uh, Christ h among others. We had some conversations last year and we expect into this year come back to the congress in a bigger delegation of brazilian congressman to have a hearing in a commissioning side of the congress to at least the tae lot around the world.

What is going on in brazil? Because in brazil it's not worth any more. You appeal you you don't have for whole appeal is the supreme y court suing people? They are they say that they are the victims.

They accuse and they judge everybody. This is not A A democrat anymore. I cannot say that unfortunate and you don't have where drop your whole ask for help.

So um just get specific about what's happened and when. So IT was the very last day that your father's term ended on news eve twenty twenty two. I think that's right. Genuine of december thirty first, january eighth, you had your own january sex yes.

This that excuse that are they use to go after every conservative .

that so uh almost a year to the day later, the united states government was involved in IT as well. The by administration you had a supposed attempted coup on the democratically elected government of brazil, a lua government and conveniently a bunch of rules. Political opponents went up in jail. Is that a fair summary?

Yeah, what happened? yes. And the funny fin talker is that they say that IT was attempt of a cube, but in january, in a sunday, no weapons were arrested. There was no support from police or the forces. So in fact, IT was a protest that went far away. I do not agree to people breaking the doors of the congress or the supreme y court, whatever, but these people now is getting punishment of seventeen years in jail if seventeen years from the interesting .

and and can I just say it's it's pretty clear that election was stolen by the little of government. I think that's fair .

to safe from the outside. Yes, yes, I have my opinion. This is a very sensitive issue. I I have to take care about my words. But what I can tell you .

is why would you have take her of of of your words?

You have a congressman as in jail now, because he made a video tucker, he made a vio talking bad words for the supreme court. This men, a congressman, is in jail for ninety years. His name is Daniel suva.

We, he's in jail for criticizing the supreme court.

Yes, not only recruits, he said bad words, that's true. I would have never do a video like that. But imagine, I don't know bad words .

that he threatened violence.

So how can I say that? Uh, talking shit things to the to the minister. Yes, your mother is this and that you know things .

to talk shit to people in power in a free country, aren't you?

Yes, yes. Where you have the first amendment respected, yes. But in brazil, we have some articles inside of the constitution that guarantee for senators and congresswomen like me that you not receive any kind of punishment about what we speak.

It's even you say, like we have a freedom of speech. In brazil, at least the constitution and the congress man is one step ahead because we cannot receive punishment about our words, votes or whatever we say. But as this congresswomen is in jo now and the things are getting worse.

okay, i'm sorry and I keep talking over your story. I'm just amazed I for critical the government um it's obviously not a free country just on the basis of that. But I said I was very obvious from our perspective, from the U S. Perspective that your election was rigged with the help of the CIA. That was my conclusions acy.

There is a very good article in financial times talking about to the help of us to guarantee democracy in brazil.

And by guarantee democracy, that would be guaranteed the .

election of the left wing. canada? Yes, yes. And the is, there is so much power that the establishment did, for example, to avoid the printed vote amendment that we try to approve two thousand to anyone.

why? Someone from the electoral court, the electorate, they organize and they judge this, everything about the elections in brazil, why someone from the electoral court, the superior electoral court, as the president's justice bao, came to the congress and talked with eleven presidents of political parties, telling them to do not approve the printed vote amendment. Why someone works, we do not have much inspiring. The election is a strange, but as stucker in my position, I can tell, I cannot accuse that the elections was flooded, but they cannot prove that IT wasn't.

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Okay, but but just to be totally clear, in a free country you can have any opinion you want about an election because you're a citizen right now.

you know. So they consider .

its a crime. So IT would be a crime for you to say.

yes. I think the election was, yes. I could suffer lot down.

We know, very fact, the C. A was tampering in the democratic process in brazil, was playing a role in the election.

Yes, yes, you know. And one of the things why my father got an eligible in a record time right after lulla take office is because he had a made.

he was told he could never run again.

He, he is an alleged buntin thousand twenty six. We are trying to overturn eight inside of the courts. But as we can imagine, it'll be very hard to do that. I still have a hope. But anyway, he was turned unalleviated because he had a meeting with ambassadors and talk with them about the electoral system in brazil, how IT works and criticize some points, not think, but before of this meeting of bosonic o ambassadors, the president of the superior electoral court, he had the same meetings with these ambassadors.

Wait, so you're saying that your father, whose often been compared to trump, has been declared ineligible to run again in the next election on the basis of complaints about the electoral system, and that you had a protest against rig election that was backed by the U. S. Government, and that as a result of that lulus political opponents, one up in jail, I mean, this sounds like exactly was happening in the united states.

Yes, yes. IT is I? yes. I usually say that is the same of virus by the brazil has unless anthidium es actually there's a phrase of the journalist is qualified is the semifinals here but imagine that in brazil, the left wing, or at least establishment, they fully control the supreme court and who cool to do the check and baLances and stop the supreme court to do that is the senate.

But the senate, they don't take any kind of action against that. They have exactly the same speech of the supreme CD justices. So in the end of the day, brazilians are losing their hope to get back democracy.

Because if you you use machine to vote and you don't have a way to at least recount the votes, you have to trust the system one hundred percent, and then they don't let more transparent in the elections. How can we elect someone both on out a conservative or right to anger someone outside of the establishment? This is the feeling that a lot of brazilian's have nowadays, unfortunately, in brazil. Mean.

once you have electronics voting machines, you can be certain that the system is real. Yes, why do you have electronic voting machines?

I tried to to avoid that. Once again, we approved IT in two thousand and seventeen. This printed the vote bill.

what? What is that? We use machines to vote. All right? This bill says that he was necessary to have a printer.

I said a side of the machine, so at least you could recall the vote when you have any kind of suspicion in the election. IT was approved in two thousands of a twin in a federal law. All right, on the next year, the supreme court say that this is an constitutional.

That's why in two thousand and anything, we started to do, not only a view to change the federal law, but amendment to change the constitution. And we would have the votes because this was never an issue of a right wing or the left wing, uh, politician IT was thinking, was used to could to get together all of the congress. But then as I said, the president of the electoral court came to the congress, talked with eleven president presidents of parties and change their minds. And so if you have electronic voting .

machines with no way to recount and no way to prove with the votes actually were, if you're in favor of that, clearly you're committing fraught. I mean, what would be the other reason .

to be in favor of that? They say that IT would be an anti democratic comment of you, and they would shut up down your brazil.

So if I if I was a brazilian citizen and I was in your media and I said what I just said, they would shut .

down your social media. It's exactly what happened if qualification tive. The qualification is someone like you talker.

wait said, I would not say that .

in brazil.

If you say you will be only once, only once, only once.

then they are going to shut down. And if you keep IT doing this and the FBI to your house, and if you keep IT doing the froze, they freeze your accounts. Just what happened with specifications.

That's why he's living here together. We fall into the how politic ated was used. If you have daily millions and millions of watching him, imagine networker have like the best moment of your car here in fox news.

And the supreme court justice says, okay, you cannot say that really is convicted. You cannot say that he has connection with madin the tag. You cannot say that he has tied with the pcc.

The largest organized crime brazil IT happened. You can google IT. You're going to say.

see that. Yes, I can imagine that if he does this question um but I can't imagine living in a society where you're just not allowed to say IT anywhere I mean anywhere so you're saying if I write that on x if I broadcast IT in a on the television channel, if I say in the podcast, if I say enough, i'll be shut .

down yes yes. Or even more than that. For example, when when you've been in brazil you met Philippine machine, right? yes. Is the jar the question .

of bejble sone out?

Yeah, this guy is in jail.

I see in jail is .

a good question. Is the same question that we do and see he is in jail because at least what do we see .

like literally in jail.

he uh accomplishing a preventive jail is what we say before the before the judgement you are in prevent jail to guarantee that he's not a making confuse if the investigations are to guarantee that the law will be applied against him so he can run away. I don't know, in fact, what moved allegation of us to send him to jail.

But as is very usual in dictatorships, they go around the leader of the opposition movement, arresting people, you know, send the federal police are there, we say, S, S. guard. Arresting and send to the house of the other people is my brother callus? Yes, he received at the visit of the federal police. Everybody that's around the trio sonata are going are are being arrested or receiving the federal police in their houses to produce to do some, uh, researcher s uh, orders violent tees from relational .

models has has IT happened to you?

Not yet. But I think naturally, one day to happen.

do you think you can stay in brazil?

I don't feel that I can say everything that I want, even if i'm now that a congresswomen and the most voter congressman in the history of brazil, formal chair of the falling first national of defense committee, and soon of the former president because if they sent a congressman to jail because he recorded a video, they can do anything they want. That's why i'm telling you, I have tube, make sure about my words before, especially talk about election in the past house about the pandemic vaccine is and all .

of that you you're not allowed to .

complain about vaccines. Es, you're going to say that you are anti vaccine and you are committing a genocide. This is what they were used .

IT to talk about. You're committing the genocide yeah by questioning yeah, the vaccines that killed all those people.

You're the genocide father. He bought with the federal budget. He bought more than six hundred million vaccines. Es, in the brazil, you could even choose what brand of vaccine would like to receive. But jobs not only said, you take IT, if you want, is up to you and be careful.

Because, for example, Fisher, if you read everything that fighter advise you h about about the back, since I don't think you would to take that, because all of the brazil, what we are in a poor country, what brazilians go to a doctor before, receive a shot, no one. And maybe if you have a problems with your a minute system and some other uh three sickness, maybe you're going to die. And when you die, you will never have investigation to check if IT was a consequence of the vaccine that you took. It's crazy, it's craze. But this this issue you know a lot, because I see that IT happens a lot here, united states too.

What's amazing is how similar what's happened in brazil is to what happening here. IT feels secure a couple years ahead of us. And it's even more amazing that the by definition ration and the government of china have played big role in IT.

And let's end on this. China was a big issue in your father's campaign. Remember, china wants brazil natural resources, as china already owns a lot of your .

infrastructure.

your power grid, its food. So yeah, food. Exactly what role has china played, do you think? And what's happening now?

Now, now they are free to do whatever they want because a little consider them and a lie, and they consider U. S. The imperialist of the world. You know what is up old fashion common ist.

That's not A, A, A coincidence that during his second Mandate, in around two thousand and eight or two thousand nine, china became for the first time after, I don't know, maybe one century, the number one trade, the partner of brazil. Because in the whole history of brazil, IT was used to be united states. Yes, but are not anymore.

This is also very weird how U. S. Can do a campaign to get into the democracy.

As the financial times told, supporting ruler, when we were always opens, even during the by the administration, to be together with them is not a problem for us. I went you to trade and business of U. S.

Way more than with china, because china, you know, do business with you ways or any other counter hin. And western hemisphere here is not the same thing to do. Business with china.

yes.

But unfortunately, the current president, he doesn't, seems like that he thinks that we have to be close of china.

Because why would the by administration be so supportive of lua when he's anti american?

I think because the above left wing I ideology, this is the connection. It's it's a craziness connection, I guess, because if you think really think in the americans, you should never do that. I will tell you it's here in united states.

Sometimes I see debates talking about a possible third world war or a conflict of china, right? Brazil is the number two in the world when you talk about a exports of iron, the fourth largest food producers of the road, with more than two hundred million people in our population. And we have a lot of oil more than even some of other other countries.

Yes, way more. In a war, what would like to have energy, oil? I don't to do the war machines, food, yes, to feed your soldiers um and everything.

Now if you start to work now, I tell you the brazil administration would be together with china against the united states. So this, I think IT was a wronger policy. Or at least you you didn't as administration, you you didn't pay attention about brazil.

And china is doing with south amErica the same that they did with africa. So if you keep not looking carefully about what is going on in south america, maybe you are going to have more and more problems, more and more people going to the U. S.

borders. If you look venezuela, about ten million people from an azul laa run away from the country. Some of them, they come from maxo, trying to come here by your brothers.

Brazil is like eight times more bigger then venezuela. I'm telling that if you do not, if brazil turns itself of venezuela, you will serve away more problems here, united states. And for sure, not only in the border of the drug dealers, supporting terrorists would be a risk for you. sure.

IT was a person post. Thank you very much.

No, thank you. Took her to opportunity to talk to the all of the world about what is going on in brazil. You have such more other other things happening only.

To finish, please search for the judges sh logie olu who is living a judies living here united states to and election modish freezed her accounting brazil, so not even her salary he's receiving any more in the morning. More brazilians are going to ask for asylum here, unfortunately. But we think that the change can come from in other states in this very important year. I hope so. Thank you. Thank you.

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Every time you use your credit card, they charge you a hidden fee called a swipe fee, and they've been raising IT without even telling you this gets consumers and every small business owner. In fact, american families are paying eleven hundred dollars in hidden White busy cheer. The fees, VISA and mastered card charge.

Americans are the highest in the world, double canada and eight times more than europe. That's why I take an action. But I need your help to help get this past. I M asking you to call your senator today. And demand they passed the credit card competition act painful by the .

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So we thought to be interesting to learn more about the descending darkness in brazil from someone who has tried to cover IT and now no oney can pal figure rao was a very well known on the best known television journalists in the nation of brazil. He now lives in south florida. His brazilian passport has been stripped from him. This is also the election of lulla um and he joins this down study to explain how exactly that happened tell thanks so much.

It's an honor to be here. I don't know how how we happen. So I can .

still be clear. You're fully brazilian. Yes, I grandfather was president. brazil. Yes, you're fully vested in the country. You like something I should up from reseal the cover thing.

If I was in the U. S, I would say my family came in the may flower.

exactly. Okay, exactly. So how? But now you're living in exile on the united states without brazilian passport. What is that?

Well, I didn't even know that was possible because until I believe, uh, twenty, twenty, the only people the brazil government seize the best part was an international drug dealer. Yes, people are looking for him and they had to see his passport. Uh, but DNA was working Normally on a regular A T V station. Reza, like mainstream media doing, yes, servais show on prime time. We had millions of people watching IT was the most watching political showing the country and a on december thirty years of twenty twenty two uh, I received the call from someone that work on a big social media company is saying, well, we received the court order from the superior court, superior feal court the spring court of buzz le um saying that we have two hours to take down your social media platform and I had like I don't know one point five million followers there on that specific one um and then I was like, wow i'm not gna see the name because I don't want to expose the person that inform me and I was like, wow so I went life streaming and I said, look so apparently i'm onna disappear and but later I found out because I got ta call from a federal police also are saying, look, we your the order against you is broader uh apparently uh they order to freeze all your assets in the country um they also orde that we we gonna seize your passport and you can get in the country and I was like.

Wow what was the crime um .

so I never I was never formally notified soldiers nothing anywhere that I committed any crime or there are being accused or charged of anything. But um apparently they just decided that was best for the brazilian people not to hear for me .

well that's to tell italian .

but is but brazil is now and well we call IT a relative democracy. But the fact is we are in well, the things are happen in brazil, only happen in dictatorship countries well .

that's just an incredible story.

So but I was not only to me I have to say ban so there is colleague of mine on so ten days later or twelve days later, well after the january eight happen in brazil.

And just for context, I should say so you said that you were stripped of your platform and told that you're having your passport taken.

but IT was still on T.

V. He was still on T. V. yeah. And that was, well, that was like on the second to last day of both was presidents.

He had been declined. The loser in the election, right? But nothing even happened. Is nothing that correctly.

nothing happened. I stayed on there but on january eighth the revolt happened in resolve protest demonstrations um and on generation nine, the department of justice open investigation against the T V station that are worked for and when they did that, the the the owners panic and they they had to fire all the conservative commentators from and only the conservative commentators from the station and they used to have the used to be number one in terms of viewer ship and of course now they're not doing well because if you know what happens with the idea yeah when they get rid of their SARS right um so and that's that's what uh that's what happens.

So and then I was like go and I open new social media platform, uh, profiles that were shut down as well. I ve been i've been opening new ones all the time like my new youtube channel already has no two hundred thousand h subscribers in people, they block IT and then people, I open a new one and people resubscribe. This is but .

you've never just be here. You know, you've never been .

charged with the crime. Oh, I I haven't even been A A called to depose or anything. I haven't. I've never received any communication from the brain.

How can the U. S. State department not saying anything about this?

All because they sponsored IT, right? The the U. S. State department sponsored what's happening in brazil. So there, there are so responsible, the united states, let me put IT bunbutter tly. The united states is so responsible to what's happened in reserve.

It's such a shocking story. IT isn't.

It's not covered by the mainstream media in the united states at all because they are accomplish. Or, oh, what's happening, the new york times, they pretend nothing things happening. They wrote a couple pieces against demis, but very mild. And they are not reporting what what's happening.

But if they take one of the most famous journalists in a huge country, I am not sure americans understand how big brazilians was. Two hundred and twenty million, a massive area in my biggest .

territorial continue. exactly.

So it's not an significant place. I think it's not sure on I don't understand how they can the new government can shut down a journalist. They don't like his opinions.

Not one was passport and the U. S. T.

Department doesn't say anything. Well, not one journalists. We have at least three journalists actually there.

There's the case of a podcast was kind like joe Roger in brazil is very liberal guy, yeah. That was taken down as well. And he is living in the U. S. Under silent, I would say we have dozens of brazil live in on political asylum in the united tes right now was my case, because was already here.

But many others, yes, you have the island essentials is his legal history was kind like or alex Jones in brazil more more 呃， vocal yes, but still he has the right of his opinions. I didn't agree with all him all the time. And they shut down his channel. Uh, was a big company by then, had a studio, everything. The federal police raided his house with his wife pregnant, pointing guns at him.

He was a nights are and returning about a guy is like a family and he has been living here in the united states and there's uh there's an open arrest, one he was on interpol red notice this right now for what for a crime of opinion for, uh, the terms the terms they use are misinformation and, uh, attacking the institutions. But what I want to say, well, attacking means criticizing, right? You are public officials.

It's my duty as a journalist to criticize for us. Yes, you work for for us. I don't work for you so but but that's what happened to him. And gal constantio was my colleague. Same station also very a lots of viewers.

And and mean, what american journalists, these defenders of press freedom, have said anything about this.

except gingling world Green wall? Yes, who lives there who lives there in brazil and uh except for him I know which is he's on the left to you know him was always on your show um but he was the one the only one that spoke anything .

about IT do you worry about him?

Well I think he should and and he should be worried, although I think the government of brazil would would be more cautious. Yeah, metals with the united states citizen.

And but then we will pull back.

I don't think so. I think he's very well. He exposes N S, C, N, C, I A. right? yeah. So very brave in less .

versions. How did you wind up in the united states? So this happened to you.

So I actually left brazil when duma usepa, the lady that seated ruler on his first time, when he, when he got elected. And I was, i'm out of here. My my wife was pregnant.

I didn't want to stay there and raise my kids in brazil. I more because, you know, was going to happen. And then we were lucky because we had Jerry baldry winning. The country started going in a good direction, but we kind of knew the establishment wouldn't let that happen for a long time, right?

So having lived through this, what do you think of the U. S. President election now in progress? Cover american politics and say so.

well, it's a it's a moment of decision for the whole western world because I don't think there is a way joe biden can win fair square. You can can be present if eighty percent of the country you think you are too old and you're a large percentage of the country a thinks is mentally uh maybe um like whatever the department of justice says yeah um and you can you can win a presentin race unless you cheat unless you see unless you it's not a fear and square election.

So what I think it's going on right now for the whole world is the whole world's watching if people still matters in any way, trump will be elected if establishment has all the power and democracy dead in the western world. And he was a good run. We had a good run for like a little over two hundred years.

That's very rare in the history. You study history, you know rare that is uh then democracy stack and I can tell that because this exactly what happen in brazil and going on more and more and more and you see that is that the powers are shifting from the people to the courts, what people called juries stock racy, not a democracy. More, which is a great thing for global list.

If you think about IT, well, let's say you want to change something uh, in a democratic country, have to possible in congress and then center needs to approve IT and the president needs to sanction IT. And so if you're a billion aire, a progressive billionaire, you have many here in the united states and you want to change something, the society, let's say, make the society more open um you have two options. Either you go through the very.

Very difficult democratic process. Tedious, tedious. Yes, very hard to control all that.

And I think the founding father's knew that. And that's widing made IT. This way you can do that.

Or you can well to say, you get six supreme courts as five. And then you can, I don't know, uh, make abortion legal over the country has been done. I have done before.

So if you're a global powerful, will eat, you can circumvent mocs acy and go straight to the judiciary ary. And that's exactly what happened in. And you can happen here.

Let's this that that is most living. I've living here for ten years. I can tell the reality that we are living in brazil is not that far away from amErica as you think.

You guys think, oh my god, we have been a democracy for hundreds of years and no, if you want, you think if you had like six supreme court chasses were progressive appointed by obama or Michelle obama or who knows what, you think your supreme court would be well as a simple of constitution, really, if you if you told me five years ago the brazil would be in the situation, I would to get out here now is too much. They're going to arrest in mainstream media journalists take his passport. They they done IT IT was he happened fast, very fast.

We correct my day. Um I appreciate your coming. Thank you, and I hope we see you again.

再见。