Seth Dillon
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When was the last time you're reading the news in this country in thought yourself, this can be real. This has to be up. It's been more than three days you haven't been reading the news.

It's reached the level where it's almost impossible to tell the difference between what's reported as facts by the news media and what someone with a dark sense of humor has made up. Well, we thought this was exactly the moment to speak to the man who makes up more news than anyone in america. Seh delon, who runs bo on b and he just us we are .

really talking .

to today as the propriety of america's premier humor site but as a profit as their own I say ah yeah um because IT turns out that we went through a quite a few examples of the babylon bee parity stories have come true in dozen scores, nearly a hundred cases. I'm going to put three on the screen and get your reaction to him to kind of set the stage to announce you as america's most accurate profit. So let's go in order here.

This is from january twenty, twenty three here, said experts say they don't know what thing is causing everyone to suddenly collapse, but is definitely not that one thing. Let's go to the news story. Something has been killing american Young people and sharply rising numbers. But it's not vaccine.

They don't know what IT is.

but they know it's not .

vaccine and they can .

rule that out safely. So when you when you see the news story that confirms what you thought was a pretty out there joke, which a reaction I mean.

we're getting accustomed to IT at this point. And but you know, it's I think it's probably the most common misconception people have is that when the world goes really wild and insane and there's crazy stuff happening, that it's easy to satirize, that it's make fun a bit and it's it's actually the opposite. We we find that is the way that I put IT is imagine if your job is the right jokes that are funny for them.

What democrats doing realize, right? Imagine if if your job is right, jokes that are funnier than I commonly hair a speech. No, it's told. I mean, it's it's chAllenging.

actually very chAllenging. So which country where everything is like orderly and need and sensible, that's something piven against .

yeah exactly um so I don't know we see this stuff happen when I am used to buy IT on the one hand on the other hand but like this is it's crazy that .

sattin can't stay satire from what the shelf life of your pieces, this will throw up another one. This is from september twenty. Stay with no electricity orders everyone to drive cars that run on electricity. And there you have gave a newson who's the governor of what's .

date california.

california. Here is the new story california told not to charge electa cars dates after gas car sales. By how do you see that?

It's comical and well where in some sense they're just reporting the news when we're doing this something you like me, if you see that happening, you see the man is happening all around you. You call IT out next thing you know, it's actually in the headlines.

but you I guess the joke is you see the implications of the news.

Yeah, the joke is that you see what you can kind of see around the corner. And I think it's easy. You can kind of guess that what people are going to go to next. What's the next logical step here given where where we've what is common Harris lying about how where we've been, where we're going or something the line to keep .

repeating whatever you are you and whatever you .

um I don't know I mean, if you can kind see around the corner with this. So especially when you're when you're trying to think yourself, well, you know what what is the next to seen thing that they could they could come up with that they haven't already come up with you. You just throw that out there and see what sticks I am eventually it's going to come here.

How long are your stories meetings?

Um well, it's a it's a constant meeting. It's ongoing meeting. It's just, do you know, pitching ideas all day long. So we just pitching back in four or thought, based off that we read the headlines, we read the real headlines and then we exaggerate them a little bit. Now we do the little caricature of the headlines, and then that's when they come true.

Are you getting to the point where no idea is to outlandish for a joke?

Uh, well, I mean, I guess part of the part of the problem is some of these ideas are to atlantis for joke, but they do actually happen in real lives, so people don't realize there a joke, right? You know? So you have these things will publish a joke that's clearly a tyrle joke that everybody thinks it's true.

And they share IT as if it's true because they're so used to seeing almost the terrace headlines in the real news. So reality is that fall for that. It's not that our jokes are too believable.

Reality too close to set are we get fact all the time. We've in fact cheat dozens of times. Snopes fact, just at least twenty times twenty plus times.

Do they know that you're a parody site?

They do. They, when they they used to attribute the ferrous motives to us, they used to say that we were like misleading people on purpose with these jokes because they were believable and people were sharing them as if they were true. Again, not our fault.

I think it's the fault of reality being too close. Sad, yes. But would fact checking regular ridiculous jokes like, you know, aoc on the Prices, right? Guess everything is free or or you know nine circuit court overturns death of ruth batter against bird. You know, these these they're silly jokes are french jokes. But sometimes people believe that it's true because you can actually see somebody doing .

that came up with those two uh.

I don't know. Don't just put the name of the office on the article so i'd have to go back and ah yea very, very sharp writing team. They're very good at this, super good at this.

I think one of my honesty, one of my favorites that got fact checked, was our joke about trump saying that he had done more for Christianity than jesus himself. And that was your headline. That was the headline trump, I have done more for Christianity than jesus.

but he and said that at some pointed.

he did well, yes. So we made that show in twenty nineteen. I got fact checked shortly there after because IT won't crazy viral.

And then in twenty twenty one I think he was twenty twenty one or twenty twenty two, he said he done more for Christianity and religion in general than any other person in the history. So it's hard to tell. Sometimes our people reading our website and getting ideas for what to say and what to do, I don't know, but that was.

how do you respect when someone fact checks a joke? Lcm Prices, right, trumps Better cruciate than jesus. How do you respond to that?

Uh, well, when you've fact check IT, I think it's historical. When they fact check IT, what I don't like, what I don't like is when the fact checked says they've managed to pull off this rules before they're tricking people. You know, the reason your grandma shared that joke on facebook is because the baboon be tricked her into believing IT was true.

Know it's that kind of stuff is ridiculous. We actually threatened to sue snopes because they were they were literally melting us since testing that we were misinforming people on purpose and in facebook was saying that they were going to dem monitise and d platforms because we were being factor by snows. So saying you can't spread fake news on our platform .

like it's sattin e so what assume snows is run by the sea or I mean, I don't have that, but I like wikipedia. I seems obvious. But what do you know about snobs? Uh.

there was a couple that started IT and that they were running IT for a long time. I think the guy's name, I might mess IT up that I was David Michael singer, something that a Michael, I may beginning that wrong. But anyway, I think IT changed hans recently. Somebody else took IT over all. They actually reached out to us and said, I know we've had know we had a rough past, but we want to put that behind us and move forward.

And I mean, in in your experience to the the fact checkers, which are I mean again, clearly at the very least influenced the intelligencies, do they play any constructive role in our public .

conversation? No, no. I mean, well, first there's spending their time fact checking saat tire the joke about ruth Peter ginsberg that are heard death being overturned .

by the ninety turn. Someone's death, by the way.

IT happened. What happened once happened once. I don't think that happened with ruth bader ginsburg, but USA today fact check ked that one.

And they cited fifteen sources in their fact checked. They were taking IT so seriously. They checked nine circuit website. They place phone calls like just look at the website that published in the ballon being in same.

right? Yeah so I always think that behind every ludicrous vent, that is a person who spent as they doing that. So imagine if you went home at night and your voice is not like that what you do today you accomplish and you're like, well, I fact checked IT teen sources like the respect level from your wife has to plan IT right?

The fact that I got fact cheat is funniest than the joke itself. Yes, like the one. So I spoken with you about this one before CNN purchasing an industrial size washing machine to spin the news in before publishing.

And that's a ridiculous joke. It's silly. It's CNN bias joke and that of fact checked and rate false. Just there's spending their time on story and .

didn't actually purchase industry. I never happen.

They never, they never did. They never slapped at the logo on a washing machine and spend the news and up before never happened was a joke. Um but the joke is that they fact checked.

They took IT seriously, but no fact checking. So the way that I look at IT is fact checking is a is an ARM. It's one of the methods that employed by the lovers of censorship to guard the narrative, not the truth.

Yeah and so what they are doing with fact checking is that they're they are very select first while they are super sly about what they fact and then the fact checks themselves often get the facts wrong on purpose and so they're not guarding the truth and saying, okay, there's this problem of misinformation. We're going to prevent its spread and we're going to do that by having objective people look at what the facts are. It's all narrative driven. It's all about protecting .

the popular narrative and lie .

the lie yeah whatever the popular lie is that they want you to believe, yes, that the claims are on that you have the press secretary for the current administration saying that. Biden has done more to secure the border than any other person. That's a straight face claim from the prosecutor that checkers have been touched.

IT has not been read false. Now the governor abbot in texas, governor abbot in texas had was talking about how this administration currently has basically an open water policy. And that of fact, I can read false. So, you know, the chAllenges to the narrative or fact, I can read a false. The narrative itself, which isn't true, is allowed to go unsex.

So Normally we wouldn't care what the fact check or say because they're obviously discounted. I mean, they're disgusting by their nature, but we have to care because they are the trigger that set into motion the censorship apparatus. The social media companies is correct while they rely on them.

So they use the fact checkers are the way of them are getting out of the way and saying, well, we're not the ones determining. We're not the arbiters of truth. Facebook could go could punto, snopes or whoever else USA today, whoever is doing the fact checking and say we're not censoring you, we're not removing your content based on arbiters rules.

We have third party fact checkers. The objective and they're the ones deciding what's true and what's falls somewhat can stay and what goes. So they just they fit in as a piece that allows them to basically have like plausible deniability.

They're involved in censorship, but the USA today fact on roth Peter kenser g's death that was funded by grants from facebook. So basement paid U. S. A today to write the last election .

to they put almost half a billion dollars mark ockerodastes ing the way we vote. So they're going to fact check that is that actually had okay, let me get to the third example of the bablon bees, prophetic accuracy. And I don't actually know how else you describe this.

This is from April twenty 202， government disinformation. Word determines all criticism of government. This information board to be sit for me IT is a self looking ice cream code.

So that was your headline. Here's the fact the orchestra misinformation and home security. It's, you know, if the world is too absurd .

to be satellite.

So when you see that, I mean, you feel vindicated.

Yeah yeah, of course.

I mean, did you, I feel.

indicated that means wrong to something? What what IT means is that there was okay. So this this is another criticism of the baby b uh, where we're narrative driven, we're propaganda.

We're trying to push our own viewpoint that has no yeah like slate all these people rolling stone and and they do yeah and when they write pieces about us, they talk about how we're trying or the reason our jokes aren't funny because they're not writing on the back of the truth. They're not Carrying a message of truth. They're pushing a narrative. They're based on a narrative. So so the joke isn't .

funny because it's rooted .

in so so doesn't I think the fact that we get so much and these jokes are coming true of indicates that there is truth to them. Obviously, they're rooted in the truth because they're coming true, have to fact check them and rate them fall.

So I wonder if we take this seriously enough. I mean, if someone is trying to stop you from talking, that person doesn't consider you human, of course, because you can't. If you consider someone human, that person is every bit the right to speak that you do.

If you consider the person sub human or slave, then you can make them shut up. So it's the way they see you is not how you see them at all. You see them as human beings.

Correct the sensors, the fact checkers slate you. You don't want to to shut them. I per put them in prison to you.

No no. And I this is I actually like the way that um twitter now access handling um false claims or or misleading claims because what they're doing is instead of trying to shut anybody up, you know the community notes thing where the tag and note on IT, but it's the best feature of the platform. Rather, it's so entertaining when people get noted in its they make a ridiculous claim.

Bindings been noted a bunch of times, even elands been noted a couple of times. So you share something that's either from you a do be a source or you make a claim that you know obviously false and a community, you know, it's attached to IT that offers context. Readers added context, right?

That at least more speech in the answer to speech that's disliked. It's a rebuttal that's that's prominently set up next to whatever the claim was. I like that a lot more than okay.

Snopes rated you false. Therefore, we're taking your page now. You can't talk anymore. Um you know the answer the answer to speech that you don't like to be more speech right to reputation or an argument, not removal of your voice.

Well, of course not so, but your voice was removed from twitter back when I was twitter, you were in twitter person. I can't remember why we are a person changes like how was the time in .

twitter person uh um we were in twitter jail um as you could put IT for eight months.

How did you join .

me again? We were there with a few other interesting people.

Jordan Peters and that you know a .

lot of interesting people in twitter, you .

twenty, but you know, I just picture you smoke in your home, old cigarettes play in panaco cook and pasta.

So we had, we admit so so there was a real headline um USA today in named Rachel levine, woman of the year. So Rachel levin is the transgender health ada bii administration. Yes, yes, yes, yes.

Woman of the year. So that headline itself, I think is comical. It's funny. It's IT seems like a apparate, but it's not it's real. So we were thinking to yourselves, ves, what are we? Very bold and and beautiful woman, I don't know you're talking about.

Sorry, brave, stunning. So we were trying IT.

We were looking at this headline and thinking to ourselves, what do we do with this? Like, what is the angle here to make a joke out of what's already a joke? This is already a yeah and women should be offended. Everybody should be offended that a male person is winning this woman of the year.

But um the only thing that we could think of to say was, okay, well, how about in defensive of women in sanity we just simply say the baboon bees pick for man of the year is Rachel an so that was the headline that we put out their baboon bee named Rachel of being man of the year. So you know twitter didn't like that. It's mission dering. It's for exactly so um miss generally falls under the house .

but that the Adams that pulled a just strap.

you're going to a man you're referring to a male person as a man that's and it's hate H A hateful conduct. It's it's mission dering by their policy. It's not you know it's not acceptable.

So um what basically what they said was this you can have your account back if you delete the tweet without joke attached to IT, but you have to delete IT there. They didn't take IT down. They wanted us to delete IT and check this box. That said, by deleting, when you delete this eet, you acknowledge that you ve violate the rules, including the rules .

against hata confession.

Signa confession, benny, you sensor yourself, delete your own joke, like we, I was basically telling twitter, i'm like you guys do. If you don't like IT, you take IT down. Why make me take IT down and admit that I did something wrong, that the is not so um we said no so we're like, no we're not going to delete IT and we're going .

to stand off with can I use the question so um which is a little bit topic but may be central central you are a Christian of a of a pastor yeah did when you're told by the authorities not simply that you're being punished but that you have to agree that your punishment is just .

right is is .

really get theological component for you when you say no yeah .

I mean it's is standing standing on the principle that not only do we think that this first world of joke, second of oleg true, this is a male person, referring them as A A man means an adult human nail so there's truth to IT as well um so the the idea that we're not allowed to speak the truth um but and that we have to sensor ourselves and admit that we engage not just in a false IT but something that was hateful yeah I think I think that there's there's a moral objection to to play any part in that.

Um so yes, so that was really the ground that we were standing on. IT wasn't just like, oh s let's get some publicity by refusing to do this was a costly decision, by the way, we had there was nobody in the world at that time knew that elon was positioning himself to take over twitter. So and we didn't know that if he did that, he would end up restoring us.

So IT wasn't like we had any kind of fall back for that. I was just our twitter audience was going to be inaccessible to us if we didn't delete the joke. And we deliberated about IT for like five minutes and really know we're not doing IT. So we SAT in twitter jail until elon took the rains and was like bring back to about long bee.

So how how did that play out, right? And by the way, this is you're one of the main owners of the business. Yeah, your whole business is getting your content in front of viewer selling ads against IT. I mean, this is like a, as you said, a very costly .

IT was a very stupid business decision, and I think IT was a morally right decision. But you know the right thing and the easy thing are rarely over the same.

IT was a costly decision because that's where we generate a lot of our traffic is through twitter yeah and that's where so when people say him, well, how costly was IT to be off of twitter, well, I an we weren't we weren't getting engagement from people like trump or yourself or rogan or or mosque on facebook or instagram. IT was happening on twitter. That's where we're got engagement from people with big followings.

That's where that's how they knew about the b, and that's how they engage with the b. So once we were sidelined from twitter, we were basically out of the conversation. That's where the conversation was happening. So IT was IT was a big cost, was not just monetarily but just being relevant. We weren't relevant anymore.

So um I mean, the way the way I went down was really crazy because you know obviously elon was wanting to make a move to buy twitter when he first stand out that we were suspended, he reached out to us. Things like this is true. He was released suspending that's what i'm hearing.

I first he actually reached out to our back on the account and we couldn't respond because we were locked out of IT. So we're like we can receive the message but we can't reply to IT. So we're like elon mosques trying to message us and we can't get back to IT.

Yeah so we couldn't respond. So eventually he found editor in chief s account was able to message cham and in touch with him, but like, yeah oh yeah was yeah. He was trying to in touch us to figure what was going on because at the time, unknown to awesome anybody else, he was already buying twitter stock.

And he was kind of positioning himself looking at twitter is like a potential acquisition. So um and he want to in the reason he wanted to do that is because he was concerned that there was a lot of censorship and people were a lot to speak freely on the platform anymore and that something needed to be done about that. So then he finds out that the bee is spending.

He's like, are you serious? This is ridiculous. You should be to tell jokes. So yeah so we had a conversation with him about, you know how in saying that was that that we were kicked off from all and he's like one to just delete the tweet to get back on. I don't think we should.

I don't think we should have to and he's like, well, no, I don't. I think you should have to eat IT. So fast forward little bit.

I mean, we were on a roller coaster there for a while because he was he made an offer and then he tried to get out. He tried to back out and say, oh, you know, you guys, mister, represented your numbers. There's all these bots.

I don't want to buy bots. I want to buy real users. And so he was trying to get out of the deal.

Maybe he'd t off more than a cartoon was like having having cold freedom. Yeah yeah. And then twitter sues him to try to keep him in the deal.

And so we had no idea if anything was going to happen, if he was actually going to take over, if this was just a big A D player, whatever. So I woke up to A A message one morning was a october and november last year. I don't know what exactly when I was the detector, but he finally closed the deal.

And and yeah, was in october, he finally closed the deal. And I E I wake up at, like, I don't know, eight or nine in the morning sleep. Leeming in that day was a weekend, I think IT was.

And I had a message from elon that he sent overnight. He said, would you like me to restore the base account? There will be no censorship of humor. So he took over, was immediately wanted to rectify the problem.

And how long after took over was that?

That was they want, they want. So what of his .

first text was to using your restored? Yeah, well.

would you like me to restore your account or be no censorships come to find out we actually didn't get restored for another month because he started now he went into the meetings with the trust and safety team. And I like, you can't just restore people. You can't just break the rules.

There's rules. We enforce the rules. If you break the rules for one person, you have to break them for everybody.

If you insult someone.

empower we answer you. Yeah yeah so they were like, you can't just restore the about b and he's like, why why not why can't isn't like a presentin part why can't I part in somebody you know and set them free and and they're like, this is that's not how this works I mei guess you can if you want to so they actually argued with him a lot back.

And can I see you another sideline question but like you can't insult Richard levine product to private school doctor guy posing as an ad roll or ver. He's empower. He works for the current administration, but if you were defined like some forty five year White guy dry wall hanger in iwa, is there anything that you would not be laid to say about him?

No, nothing.

nothing to kill him. right.

right. So this is such an important point of bringing up the I D. This concept of who you can and can't make fun of.

So Richard levine, Rachel l. Levine, what everyone to call him men of the year, a high ranking White male government officials. Al yeah, high ranking Whitemen government official. And this is a person that you can't joke about because they are marginalia a press. I do words even have meaning.

What does the word margin? Zed, me dyan mulvaney is lin mulvaney on the red carpet at these events and and sponsored by every major, uh you know, brand margin zed and opprest. What does that word even mean to be margin? Zed, right?

So we're looking at this something like so in a minute, they're telling us they have a rule. Facebook now has a rule. The other platforms are adopting this and they're try to make comedians live by the rule. You're not allowed to punched down. That's what they say.

You can't punch down and punching down vane towers above the rest of us in his power, right?

But the rule against punching .

down we're Dylan mova.

I I can't get anybody censored for making fun of me. So I think if you have the will in the power to silence people who so much has make a joke at your expense than you have more .

power and you're punching up exact iram x Candy has way more power than anyone in the counting.

I like, yeah. So this idea, the punching out, like the number one rule of comedy, should be funny IT to be funny, right?

When I go in a humorous or sad, uh, a comedian sitting down the right to joke, they should be thinking themselves, is this joke funny? not? Am I? Am I going to be making fun of someone who supposedly has less power and privilege than me, but can actually get me punished if they are offended by my joke? right? And it's such a.

but I think it's a matter of reclaim ing the language like dillon novae, Rachel levine. I mean, these are a rulers actually.

right? Yeah they're the most powerful and privileged people in our culture and you're not allowed to joke about them so and then yeah and I mean, this is everybody understands this too. This is it's a well known saying that you can tell who you you can tell who rules over you by who you're not allowed to criticize or who allowed to joke about.

and that's exact. I allowed to say that though.

Are you probably not I don't think you are yeah .

yeah that that hate speech there yeah.

But we're not. But we're not we're not punching down. We're not punching down. I think we're punching back. But this is the thing that is coming when they make this rule is there's a number elements. This too.

Imagine, think to yourself when you're making a joke to like, you know what? I ouldn't joke about those people. They are beneath me. Imagine if that's the mentality that you're in, right? Like, that's a condescent mentality .

man whose ever lived in a dorm nose. The mocking somebody is a sign of fortune. Al, friendship.

Let's appear right. I had a friend's birthday was this morning. I mean, I said a whole bridge of insulting jokes about an sexual dency. And at the first thing I do, what my closest friends gets older, you, the way of each .

other equally is joking about each other in discriminately. So yeah, I think I think comedians to and this is why so much of comedy is not funny today. It's it's my chief criticism of like late night comedy, which I find unwatchable.

I think it's totally contempt. I mean, the collaborators .

they are they are um they just like the fact checkers, the guardians of the narrative.

you know they are live with him. Ji kim is a town and guy and I don't think he's like an evil person or something but he's made this deal where he just serves power and attacks anybody who chAllenges power. Like how can honest honestly, how can you look at the mire and say, i'm doing something honoring able? How can he live in themselves? How can his wife sleep with them? Well, no, no. IT one thing .

to be one thing if if his job wasn't to be a comedian and to do that, but his job is to be a community supposed to be funny, and comedians are supposed to hold people in the power.

People in change exactly, is their pretorian guard. Yeah and it's like the self hatred he must feel because he wasn't always and that's my point. Yeah I mean, all there has always been a hard partisan tell me, guy, but obviously apart you know not he's not a median but kim was a comedian like how to see? I don't understand.

I don't know how he can that sleep. He might he might buy into the narrative to the extent that he thinks it's morally uh, wrong to joke about these these certain topics but that he's .

like pouring hot oil on the peasants from the parapet, right? Like he's hurting anyone who chAllenges the king.

It's crazy. IT is crazy. It's upside down that the comedian should be poking .

holes in the popular. Now I mean that .

that money is worth .

what he's doing.

My yeah, yeah.

Okay, you're speaking of handmade s to power who want to kill you and anyone else who speaks the truth. You get back on twitter. And this deeply upsets a figure called bRandy that russet y assuming i'm pronounce its name correctly.

And i'm also not guessing gender in this one, but I will say, as you watch this clip, this is brandee snee complaining about you speaking out well. D keep in mind the touches about brand ee's, ad jazzy, whatever that is, this is the person who runs our society. This person and people like you are actually in charge. And I just can't wait to the rule ends because there's never been a was stalling class then bRandy, drowsy inference.

who did he bring back yesterday? He brought back Jordan Peterson, the babyland bean cafe, Cathy griffin, so the ball on b and Jordan Peter and they were taken off the pot. They were suspended for mission dering trans people so apparently that um policy against hate speech and harassment of tran's people that done with that's important. This comes to a time when trans people are being harassed and you know violence is aimed at them at sort of unseen levels before. So this this sort .

of matters that i'm about that sort of obviously the low I Q the up talk on there at the end of every sense, the ursel glasses to complete, the theatrical fake glasses, the made up stats, the fake concern for some group that he knows nothing about at all.

And then, under all of IT, the desire to press harder with her boot against the neck of ordinary people and to shut them up on behalf of her bosses, the people who run the world like every that's just that's the perfect I hope that someone puts that in a time capsule yeah for when the revolution finally ends. And like a rider, people like that. They ran the world. How do we let them?

I know it's insane, but it's it's how they control speech and thought is how if if your world view is incoherent and impossible to defend rationally, yes, then you have to insulate from criticism. And what's the most effective kind of criticism there is I think it's mockery which exposes foolishness for what IT is. So IT IT makes perfect sense to me. I honestly, I I was mistaken about this is something I admit I was wrong about is when early on, when we first started getting fact check and we first started having these issues with censorship with the bomb IT was my belief that humor, these were humanist schools who just didn't think our jokes were funny and they thought they were offensive and they were being hypersensitive. And that's that's .

nothing you're going to the stages of realization.

the stage of realization. I eventually learned and came to realize that it's not humor. Humor a vehicle for truth delivery. They don't like the fact that the narrative is being chAllenged in a way that's effective, yes. And so they have to shut you up. And so that's what it's about, has not to do with them and has nothing to do with being offended, this whole thing. You know, the hypersensitive, the people getting up in in comedians faces or charging their state the stage to slap them in the face when they make a joke. They don't like the you don't bring your speaker to our campus because we need to save space here and this will offend people the they're not, it's all fake outrage because they've learned that fake outrage can be used as a tool to blood in you, into silence and submission.

That's exactly right. If they would sensor, you would kill you, period. Because you don't sensor appear another citizen, another human being.

You sensor your slaves, you sensor someone you consider less than humans. So if censorships ship doesn't work, they didn't do you. If that is a work, they will kill you. I M not just it's a very obvious continue, but I also to say, and I want to ask this as the target of people like bRandy z rosny, wouldn't you rather be the target of an explicitly fascist regime where IT was aggressive rather than passive aggressive, where some guy in the funny mask must ash get up and said, you're going jail instead of having someone in fake complex glasses telling you you're endangering trans people? I mean, there is a kind of the passive aggression is very hard to i'd rather .

neither of them but well, I don't know if I have take my PICC, i'll take twitter jail over real jail any day like that's .

where that's going. You don't sensor people. You consider them human perd.

Yeah no, there are both bad. They're both bad. They're just two sides. This in coin.

how long do you think um your moment of freedom will last?

Well, a lot longer now that mosque is running one of the prominent platforms. If that hadn't happened. I mean, IT was just a matter like facebook hotta us so badly now we don't get any reach on facebook and not driving traffic on facebook. It's not really that valuable to us anymore.

If you talk them about IT.

We've tried we know you can get string answers.

They were complicated glasses to and up tok.

They just give you like really like kind responses or they pointed to their exactly that's my point where they have people in place till have some kind of like policy person who's there to modify you and just hear what you have to say until you we're work. We're looking into this for you and i'm going to run this up the chain kind like the people who are there to listen to you to make IT seem like they're actually paying attention.

but they don't do anything of moment. Honestly, wouldn't you rather and i'm bringing have physicians deal with like the north korean security apparatus or they like say that will kill you, is super shake forward and are not going to like to you about translation.

At least it's honest.

At least it's on yeah, it's less so right? Tious.

yeah but I don't know. I mean, I think I am am hopeful for a couple reasons. I think I think musk really is committed to free speech. I think he means that I don't think you twitter was not a money play for him. I don't think that he's no .

was not a money right for twitter.

Twitter was is an absolute money pit and and he realized the very early on that became real. So one of the conversations that they were having internally about whether to restore us was, well, what what are going to be, the advertisers reactions to us, putting people back on the platform. And so and this is where the censorship gets all the more complicated is the brands themselves don't want that speech.

They will will pull out their funding. They will pull out their advice and cripple twitter financially. If twitter doesn't do, they are bidding. And so it's coming from the government. It's coming from the advertisers, coming from everywhere. All the positions of power are controlling our speech and saying that we can't joke about these people and things but we're punching down um so yeah I mean, he had he's walking that tight rope of I want free speech but I need revenue in order to keep this business going so you know he was doing this dress to cost cutting measures. Know all of that start, but trying to I don't know how you actually run a free speech platform and have IT been have IT generate enough of revenue for you to survive. I don't know how he's going to figure out how maybe he will, if anyone can do IT must can do IT his he reuses rockets and lend them on platforms, them all the ocean after they're ready launched in crazy stuff like that. So I think you can figure this out.

but I don't know he is going to do IT. So you expect to be up available to the public through the election?

Yeah, yeah, I do. I mean, well, we do. We have as much reach as we used to have. no. But I mean, we we stop a platform. I don't i've never been an advocate of let's go create new platforms and do our own thing because then you're just creating a new echo chAmber where people who agree with you are on that platform. And uh, there's not interesting conversations happening there.

So I am wanting to stay in the conversation where the conversation actually matters, these prominent platforms where that you could call the public square of the motor age. And I think that we have a hopeful outlook when IT comes to legal recourse there, too. I mean, you have you have these laws that were passed at the state level, but in florida and texas that make IT illegal tune for these platforms to engage in viewpoint scribe ation.

And the supreme court is now going to hear these cases because, you know, one of them was rejected by the eleven circuit, one of them was upheld. The texas one was upheld by the first circuit. So um the supreme course going to make a decision on whether not these companies can engage in politically motivational viewpoint discrimination. And if they can't, then we're legally allowed to be there.

Last question is, someone who Operates in this world every day, which platform do you think is more censored? The facebook american known by mark soccer burg, or tiktok owned by the chinese communist government?

Um i'm not sure that that distinguishable at this point. I mean, what do you think are the facebook is not a free speech platform at all? They may give more lip service to free speech.

In fact, twitter did to back when we were sensor that they're platform for free expression without barriers. Um the wires, the liars, they lie straight your face and that's fraught. They shouldn't want to do that either.

I don't thank everything i've done. Thank you. I can .

regulations on your proxy.