cover of episode Ep 455: Elif Shafak on the resilience of literature

Ep 455: Elif Shafak on the resilience of literature

2024/11/19
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Anne Bogle: 本期访谈围绕Elif Shafak最新小说《There Are Rivers in the Sky》展开,探讨了小说中独特的叙事手法、主题以及作者的创作理念。访谈中,Anne Bogle对Elif Shafak作品中大胆的创作尝试表示赞赏,并就小说中水、三个主要人物、两条河流以及古老诗歌之间的联系进行了深入探讨。 Elif Shafak: 她认为文学作品并非完全自传性质,她更关注文学的超越性,以及跨学科知识的融合。她不认同高雅文学与通俗文学的二元对立,并强调好奇心是她创作的驱动力。她将《There Are Rivers in the Sky》比作一首献给水的恋歌,以一滴水为核心意象,探讨了看似微小的事物蕴含的宇宙般广阔。小说中,水不仅是故事的载体,也隐喻了气候危机、性别暴力和社会不平等等问题的相互关联性。她认为水具有记忆性,而人类容易遗忘历史,历史并非线性发展,而是循环往复。地球上的水是循环往复的,这提醒人们人类与自然之间相互关联,而非高高在上。小说中三个角色如同水分子中的原子,通过一滴水和吉尔伽美什史诗联系在一起,体现了文学的韧性。她重视口头传统,认为它弥补了书面历史的不足,能够展现被遗忘的故事和沉默。狄更斯的作品对作者产生了影响,其作品中对社会不平等的描写与作者的成长经历产生共鸣。小说中Salika这个角色象征着对被遗忘历史的关注,以及对城市中被掩盖河流的重新发现。她认为写作的目的是提出问题,而非提供答案,小说能够容纳多元观点和细致情感。她作品中反复出现的主题是家园、归属、流亡和流离失所,她认为身份认同是流动的,而非静态的。她选择用英语写作,是为了获得认知上的距离,并更轻松地表达幽默感,同时英语写作也让她更关注语言的细微之处。她相信文字的力量,认为书籍能够改变人和世界。写作期间,她更倾向于阅读诗歌,而不是小说,诗歌的节奏和韵律能够帮助她更好地进入写作状态。 Elif Shafak: 她的创作理念是探索不同人生可能性和跨学科知识,不局限于单一文化或视角。她认为文学作品应该关注被边缘化的声音,并通过多元视角展现世界的复杂性。她强调口头传统在文学创作中的重要性,以及文学作品的超越性和韧性。她认为语言的选择会影响创作的风格和表达,并分享了她用英语写作的经验和感受。她还谈到了她对家园、归属、流亡和身份认同等主题的思考,以及她对文学作品的社会责任和影响的看法。

Deep Dive

Key Insights

Why does Elif Shafak see literature as transcendental?

Shafak views literature as transcendental because it allows her to explore different existences and possibilities, transcending her own life experiences. She believes literature opens up new worlds and perspectives, much like it did for her as a child growing up in a conservative environment in Turkey.

How does Elif Shafak approach storytelling in her novels?

Shafak approaches storytelling with curiosity and a desire to bridge cultures and communities. She draws from both written and oral traditions, aiming to create a sense of inclusivity and connection. Her stories often explore universal themes like home, belonging, and displacement, while also incorporating unique and ambitious narrative structures.

What inspired the concept of tracing a single drop of water in 'There Are Rivers in the Sky'?

The concept of tracing a single drop of water across centuries and continents was inspired by the idea of building a novel around something seemingly insignificant, like a droplet. Shafak wanted to explore how such a small element could connect different characters, rivers, and historical events, reflecting themes of interconnectedness and the cyclical nature of time.

Why does Elif Shafak emphasize the importance of water in her novel?

Shafak emphasizes the importance of water because it serves as a metaphor for interconnectedness and the global water crisis. She highlights how water scarcity affects regions like the Middle East, where seven of the ten most water-stressed nations are located. Water also symbolizes the cyclical nature of history, reminding us that progress is not always linear.

How does Elif Shafak connect her characters in 'There Are Rivers in the Sky'?

Shafak connects her characters through the journey of a single drop of water, which ties them together like atoms in a water molecule. The characters, set in different times and places, are interconnected by their shared experiences with water and the themes of home, belonging, and displacement.

What role does the Epic of Gilgamesh play in 'There Are Rivers in the Sky'?

The Epic of Gilgamesh serves as a central element in the novel, connecting the characters and their stories. It is the oldest piece of literature known to humanity and reflects themes of friendship, power, and the search for meaning, which resonate with the novel's exploration of human connection and history.

How does Elif Shafak view the oral storytelling tradition?

Shafak views the oral storytelling tradition as a vital source of untold stories and wisdom that often complement written history. She believes oral culture remembers what written history forgets, making it essential for understanding the full scope of human experience, especially for marginalized groups like women and minorities.

Why did Elif Shafak choose to write in English rather than Turkish?

Shafak chose to write in English to gain a cognitive distance from the political and cultural pressures in Turkey. Writing in English allowed her to explore her heritage and themes of displacement with a sense of lightness and freedom, while also connecting with a broader global audience.

How does Elif Shafak feel about releasing her words into the world?

Shafak passionately believes in the transformative power of literature. She sees releasing her words as setting caged birds free, knowing they will reach readers who may find solace, connection, or inspiration in her stories. She credits books with saving her during her own life struggles and hopes her writing can have a similar impact on others.

What does Elif Shafak read while working on a novel?

While working on a novel, Shafak avoids reading other novels to allow her intuition to guide her writing. Instead, she reads poetry, which helps her focus on the rhythm and melody of language. She enjoys a mix of contemporary and classic poets from both Eastern and Western traditions.

Chapters
Anne Bogle introduces Elif Shafak and her novel, There Are Rivers in the Sky. They discuss Shafak's ambitious storytelling, exploring universal themes like home and belonging, exile, and displacement while leveraging Turkish heritage and storytelling traditions. Shafak's approach to literature is described as transcendental and water-like, guided by her curiosity.
  • Elif Shafak's novel, There Are Rivers in the Sky, was a 2024 Summer Reading Guide pick.
  • Shafak's works explore universal themes and leverage Turkish storytelling traditions.
  • Shafak views literature as transcendental and water-like, guided by curiosity.

Shownotes Transcript

Today's guest is the beloved author, Elif Shafak, whose latest title was a 2024 Summer Reading Guide pick.

Elif's works are so particular and set very much in a specific time and place, yet they also feel so inclusive. Elif's stories explore universal themes like home and belonging, exile and displacement. She also leverages her Turkish heritage and accesses storytelling traditions that are sometimes unfamiliar to Western readers.

Elif is one of Anne's favorite writers working right now, in large part because she attempts things no other writer would think of. Today, they talk about that as well as the mythologies and metaphors that make her books so engrossing. 

Find the list of titles mentioned in today's show at our show notes page at whatshouldireadnextpodcast.com/455).

If today's episode delivered the type of bookish conversation you'd love more of, come check out our Modern Mrs. Darcy Book Club. In this vibrant community space, we enjoy live author talks, classes, and special events like the upcoming Our Team's Best Books of the Year event. Sign up or purchase a gift membership for your favorite reader at modernmrsdarcy.com/club). 

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