cover of episode Finding relics among the ruins of the Cultural Revolution — with Ian Johnson

Finding relics among the ruins of the Cultural Revolution — with Ian Johnson

2024/11/22
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Ian Johnson 的访谈主要围绕其在中国几十年的记者生涯展开，分享了他初次到中国时的经历、对外国记者在中国报道的反思，以及他对中国地下社会和基层民众的关注。他详细描述了80年代初次访华的经历，包括在北京大学学习中文、游历中国各地，以及通过一本老旧的指南发现文化大革命遗留下来的被破坏的建筑。这段经历使他意识到中国历史的复杂性和文化大革命的深远影响。他还批评了外国记者在中国报道中的跟风现象，强调了独立思考和深入调查的重要性。他认为，许多外国记者只关注负面新闻，而忽略了中国经济发展和基础设施建设的积极方面，这会对读者造成误导。在职业生涯中，他始终关注中国的地下社会，例如教会、地下历史学家和民间组织，并认为这些群体比北京的知识分子更能反映中国社会的真实面貌。他解释了自己选择报道主题的方式，以及在中国进行实地调查的困难。他回顾了自己职业生涯中的一些遗憾，例如没有采访刘晓波，并解释了为什么他更倾向于采访异见人士而非政府官员。最后，他还谈到了他早期对中国知识分子的看法，以及后来观点的转变。 Leo 作为主持人，引导 Ian Johnson 分享了他的个人经历和职业感悟，并对他的观点进行补充和提问，使访谈内容更加完整和深入。

Deep Dive

Key Insights

Why did Ian Johnson initially choose to study Chinese?

He took Chinese as a lark, influenced by his father's work with a Hong Kong company and the growing interest in China after diplomatic relations were normalized.

What was Ian Johnson's experience like during his first trip to China?

He spent six months at Peking University, realizing his Chinese was poor but gaining valuable experiences, including teaching English and witnessing remnants of the Cultural Revolution.

How did Ian Johnson's approach to journalism in China differ from other correspondents?

He aimed to spend one week every month traveling outside Beijing, avoiding the news cycle prison and focusing on grassroots stories rather than copying other journalists.

What was the impact of Ian Johnson's journalism on China?

His work had minimal direct impact on China, as it was rarely read by Chinese citizens, but it contributed to documenting human rights abuses and other issues.

How did Ian Johnson choose his topics for reporting in China?

He focused on big themes and case studies, often working on multiple topics simultaneously and opportunistically finding relevant stories to fit his themes.

What did Ian Johnson regret not reporting on during his time in China?

He regretted not interviewing Liu Xiaobo, a prominent dissident, and not focusing more on public intellectuals in China.

How did Ian Johnson's perception of public intellectuals in China change over time?

Initially, he viewed them as less important, but later realized their significance, leading to a series of Q&A articles and ultimately his book 'Sparks'.

Chapters
Ian Johnson recounts his first trip to China as an exchange student at Peking University in the 1980s, highlighting his initial interest in Chinese language and culture, his experiences with the lingering effects of the Cultural Revolution, and his early observations on foreign journalism in China. He emphasizes the challenges of traveling and reporting in a restricted environment and the tendency of journalists to copy each other's work.
  • Exchange student at Peking University in the 80s
  • Lingering effects of the Cultural Revolution
  • Challenges of foreign journalism in China
  • Tendency of journalists to copy each other

Shownotes Transcript

Liu He speaks with Ian Johnson, a longtime China journalist and the author of the recent book "Sparks," about his first experiences in China, his reflections on foreign reporting, and his own career covering the country.

The Peking Hotel podcast and newsletter) are digital publications in which Liu He interviews China specialists about their first-hand experiences and observations from decades past. The project grew out of Liu’s research at Hoover Institution collecting oral history of China experts living in the U.S. Their stories are a reminder of what China used to be and what it is capable of becoming.

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