Deep Dive
Who is Austin Tice and why is he significant?
Austin Tice is an American journalist and former Marine who has been held captive in Syria since August 2012. He is one of the few Americans captured by the Bashar al-Assad regime and is currently the longest-held American hostage, with over 4,500 days in captivity.
What do we know about Austin Tice's capture in 2012?
Austin Tice was captured near Damascus on August 14, 2012, while covering the early days of the Syrian civil war. He was working as a freelance journalist for outlets like the Washington Post and AFP. Despite being taken at a government checkpoint, the regime initially denied holding him.
What evidence suggests that Austin Tice might still be alive?
Austin's sister, Abigail Edderburn, believes he is still alive based on trusted sources, including the U.S. president. Additionally, a Syrian undercover journalist, Saher Al-Ahmad, claimed to have seen Tice alive in July 2022 while they were both held in the same prison.
What are the conditions like in Syrian prisons where Austin Tice might be held?
Prisoners in Syrian prisons, including those in Sednaya, often suffer severe mental and physical abuse. Some are held for decades and barely recognize their families upon release. While foreigners like Tice may be treated slightly better, they still face years of solitary confinement, torture, and frequent transfers.
What diplomatic efforts are being made to find Austin Tice?
The U.S. government has sent a special envoy, Roger Carstens, to Beirut to coordinate efforts. There is also a point person, Moaz Mustafa, who liaises between the government and the family. Numerous unofficial efforts by journalists and media organizations are ongoing to locate Tice.
What charges are typically used by the Assad regime to justify detaining foreigners like Austin Tice?
Detainees like Tice are often charged with vague and sweeping allegations, such as spying for the U.S. government or Israel. These charges are rarely specific and often result in indefinite detention without trial.
What role does Saher Al-Ahmad play in the search for Austin Tice?
Saher Al-Ahmad, a Syrian undercover journalist, claims to have been held in the same prison as Tice in 2022. He provided details about the prison's layout and mentioned hearing a jailer refer to Tice as 'Ossie,' suggesting he was still alive at that time.
Shownotes Transcript
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Welcome to The World in 10. In an increasingly uncertain world, this is The Times' daily podcast dedicated to global security. Today with me, Alex Dibble and James Hansen. Since the fall of the Assad regime in Syria, a lot has been made of the brutality of the country's prison network.
In fact, we spoke about this on The World in Ten last week with The Times reporter Oliver Marsden, who'd been inside the notorious Sedaniah prison. If you missed that episode on Thursday, do go back and listen. Today, we're going to focus on one particular prisoner, the American journalist and former Marine Austin Tice, who was kidnapped near Damascus in August 2012 while covering the early days of the Syrian civil war.
Our guest is Josie Ensor, the Times US correspondent who covered the Middle East and Syria for many years. Josie, first of all, tell us a bit more about Austin Tice. Who is he?
Yeah, so Austin Tice was one of many Americans that was captured during the Syrian civil war. But what's interesting about Austin Tice is he's kind of one of a handful of Americans that were captured by the Bashar al-Assad regime. A number of the other Americans were, the ones that were released were actually not journalists. So Austin Tice is one of, if not the longest ever held American hostage. So now it's been
12 years and four months. His mother, Deborah Tice, who lives in Texas, keeps a kind of running count. When I spoke to her in May, she knows every day exactly how long he's been held for. It's something like 4,506 days at this point. What do we know about Austin Tice's capture in 2012?
He was a freelance journalist who was working for the Washington Post and AFP and McClatchy and others. He was also a former US Marine and he was captured near the capital of Damascus on August 14th, 2012, while he was covering the early days of the Syrian civil war. And what was interesting about this is that
while it was a government checkpoint that he was kidnapped in it, they always denied in the early days anyway, completely denied having him. So this bizarre video was put out as a kind of a way of a proof of life of Austin sort of struggling up a hillside while wearing a blindfold.
And you can hear him keep saying the words, oh, Jesus, oh, Jesus, oh, Jesus. And he has no idea if he's being led to his execution or not. So then this video is distributed as kind of, you know, the regime was using it as proof that the rebels were holding him as a bit of a distraction. So it took many months after that for the U.S. government and for the family to really understand that it was actually the government that was holding him.
Josie, you've been in contact with a Syrian undercover journalist who claims he was in the same prison at the same time as Austin Tice. He's called Saher Al-Ahmad. In fact, we've actually got a clip of him here. Let's just take a listen. Now, obviously, he's speaking in Arabic here, but can you give us a sense of what he's saying, Josie?
Yeah. So he puts this message out on Telegram and he's basically saying, I believe I was held with Austin Tice at the General Intelligence Directorate Branch 85 in Kafr Sousa, which is a district of Damascus. He says he was arrested there in 2022 on charges of terrorism. He said his name was Sahar al-Ahmad. He briefly kind of talks about the layout of the prison and which major generals in charge are.
He talks about, you know, some of the prison helpers being Turkish. He remembers some of the other detainees being from France and Russia and China and Yemen. And he was in solitary confinement for a number of those months that he was held. And he used to hear this jailer refer to this. He was called an American journalist called Ossie or Ossie.
And he believes it was basically an easier, more pronounceable way to describe Austin. So he describes some of the foreigners were treated a little bit better than the Syrians were. But he also describes Austin being in quite bad shape compared to the picture that I sent him before his capture. And what has Saher told you about the Assad regime's justification for detaining Osama?
Austin Tice. What did they say about why he was in prison?
So basically everybody that's kidnapped and held hostage by the Syrian government, they kind of face the same charges. And they're always very vague and sweeping. It's like spying for the United States government or spying for the state of Israel, because obviously Israel is a state of war with the Syrian government. So there are always vague charges. And often these people are not charged. They're not tried. They're just allegations. Wow.
One of the big questions around Austin Tice is whether he's even still alive. And we'll come back to you on that point in a moment, Josie. But first, why don't we hear a clip of Austin's sister, Abigail Edderburn, who told Times Radio that she does believe her brother is still alive.
We've had many very, very trusted sources tell us that he is alive and we believe them to be true, as does the president of the United States. Assad is gone. We're asking that the president call Assad, ask him where Austin is, go get him. We believe that this can happen and it should happen and it should happen now.
So Josie, Austin's family still believe he's alive. What did your contact, Sahar Al-Ahmed, say about that?
So he, to be clear, absolutely no one, as far as I'm aware, has any concrete intelligence of where Austin might be now. He says, you know, the last time he saw him, he was very much alive and that was in July, mid-July 2022. And he speculated what could have happened, as a lot of people are. There were actually Israeli airstrikes near the intelligence directorate because it's a key location that the Israelis wanted to destroy. So while we're now clear that the actual branch of the director that he would have
being held in was not level to the ground there were parts of that area that were so you know he was speculating because he he'd messaged people in damascus in the area because he wanted to find out about the turkish detainees that he was held with and they said they were just nowhere to be found so you know the people in that branch no one knows where they are now basically
And do we know about the diplomatic efforts to find Austin? We heard his sister mention President Biden. Presumably, the White House is doing everything it can.
Yeah, they're doing everything they can. I think the Syrian government has always been a black hole, quite a black hole for the US. And while their intelligence gathering is pretty good in many places, it's been very, very difficult for them to get anything concrete on Austin Tice. So they've sent this special envoy for hostages, Roger Carstens, to Beirut to coordinate efforts.
There's a kind of point person called Moaz Mustafa, who's the executive director of the Syrian Emergency Task Force and a friend of the family that's sort of liaising between the government and the family. And, you know, there's tons and tons of unofficial efforts to find him. I mean, every single journalist that's gone there, you know, some of them have followed up on my report. Others of them have been following up on their own intelligence. And I would say there's kind of been no expense spared among English language media to try and find Austin.
And Josie, we have heard some truly horrifying stories of the conditions in some of these Syrian prisons, especially Sednaya. In some cases, prisoners have been released after being held for decades and they barely even recognise their family because of the mental and physical abuse they've suffered. So if, as we all hope, Austin is found alive, is he likely to be in a very serious condition?
Yeah, I mean, as we've seen from reports and also, you know, people who've been reporting on Syria over the years have kind of been trying to alert people to the situation, not just in Sednaya, but in the kind of government black holes across government territory. But yeah, I mean, a lot of these people have been tortured to be on recognition. My source, Sahar, said that, you know, he was doubly tortured because he was believed to be working with the opposition as an undercover journalist.
I mean, we've seen from the videos and the pictures coming out of here just how dire the situation is for many, many, many of them. I mean, Sahar told me and it's stuff I've heard before about, you know, foreigners, particularly ones of high value are treated a little bit better. But I mean, we're still talking about potentially up to 12 years of in and out of solitary confinement, possibly torture, possibly being moved around a lot. I mean, you know, I think the family try not to think about it and probably for the best.
Josie, thank you. That's The Times US correspondent Josie Ensor. That is it from us. Thank you for taking 10 minutes to stay on top of the world with the help of The Times. We'll see you tomorrow.
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