cover of episode Will Sectarian Groups Get Along in a New Syria?

Will Sectarian Groups Get Along in a New Syria?

2024/12/16
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Ghazi Mohammed
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Greg Dixon
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Ibrahim Issa
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La'eh Ahmed
叙利亚居民
叙利亚阿拉维派女性
叙利亚阿拉维派居民
Topics
Greg Dixon: 本节目探讨了叙利亚内战后阿拉维派所面临的复杂处境。他们既是阿萨德政权的支持者,也是其暴行的受害者,因此在战后社会中面临着来自其他教派的误解和敌意。阿拉维派在叙利亚社会中占少数,他们在阿萨德政权时期虽然在军队和情报部门占据主导地位,但大部分阿拉维派民众生活贫困,并遭受着阿萨德政权的压迫。 叙利亚阿拉维派居民:阿拉维派居民在阿萨德政权统治下生活在恐惧之中,他们既遭受着政权的压迫,又被错误地与阿萨德政权联系在一起。许多阿拉维派居民被迫服兵役,即使他们不愿意与其他叙利亚人作战,也因为贫困和缺乏其他选择而不得不加入军队。他们面临着来自其他教派的歧视和暴力威胁,即使在日常生活中,宗派主义也开始渗透到邻里纠纷中。 Ibrahim Issa:阿萨德政权通过制造贫困和强制征兵来控制阿拉维派居民。政权故意破坏阿拉维派居民的农业和森林,迫使他们加入军队,并给予他们极低的报酬和恶劣的工作条件。 La'eh Ahmed:虽然反对派对阿拉维派士兵的待遇相对温和,但阿萨德下台后,一些逊尼派家庭开始歧视阿拉维派,甚至拒绝与阿拉维派通婚。 Ghazi Mohammed:阿拉维派居民为了自保,在检查站谎报身份,冒充逊尼派。 叙利亚阿拉维派女性:即使在日常邻里纠纷中,宗派主义也开始显现,阿拉维派居民与逊尼派邻居的纠纷也带有宗派色彩。 叙利亚阿拉维派居民:阿拉维派居民对未来充满恐惧,即使新的领导人承诺保护他们,他们也对这些承诺表示怀疑。他们担心会遭到报复和迫害,因此移除与阿萨德政权相关的象征物,甚至隐藏了阵亡士兵的纪念物。他们通过展示新国旗来表达对新政权的效忠,试图证明自己的清白和忠诚。

Deep Dive

Key Insights

Why do Alawites in Syria fear being blamed for Assad's crimes?

Alawites fear being blamed for Assad's crimes because they were both oppressed by his regime and unfairly associated with it due to his Alawite background. They worry about retaliation from other Syrians despite being victims themselves.

What challenges did Alawites face under Assad's regime?

Alawites faced poverty, lack of jobs, and forced military conscription. The regime burned their agriculture and forests, forcing them into the army while denying them basic resources.

How did the Syrian civil war affect sectarian relations?

The civil war pitted the Sunni Arab majority against Alawites and other minorities, exacerbating sectarian tensions. Alawites, despite being a poor community, were seen as dominating the military and intelligence sectors.

Why did some Alawites evade military service during Assad's rule?

Many Alawites evaded military service to avoid fighting against fellow Syrians and risking their lives on the front lines for minimal pay. Conscription also disrupted their education and future prospects.

How have sectarian tensions affected daily life in Alawite neighborhoods?

Sectarian tensions have seeped into everyday disputes, such as plumbing issues between neighbors. Alawites often hide their identity at checkpoints to avoid potential harm.

What measures have Alawites taken to distance themselves from Assad's regime?

Alawites have removed banners and signs associated with Assad's government and the military, including tributes to fallen soldiers, to avoid drawing attention or reprisals from new authorities.

What are the fears of Alawites regarding the new Syrian leadership?

Alawites fear being targeted for retaliation despite promises of amnesty. Online threats and past bombings of their neighborhoods by extremists have heightened their anxiety about their safety and future.

How do Alawites feel about the call for general amnesty in Syria?

Alawites are skeptical of the call for amnesty, viewing it as insincere. They believe that promises of protection and pardon are empty, given the ongoing threats and historical animosities.

Chapters
Amidst the transition in Syria, Alawites, a minority sect, grapple with the fear of reprisal for their association with the Assad regime, despite also being victims of its oppression. The accounts from Damascus reveal their concerns about the future and their interactions with both former regime soldiers and rebel groups.
  • Alawites fear blame for Assad regime's crimes despite being victims themselves.
  • Economic hardship and forced military service under Assad.
  • Shifting attitudes among Sunni population towards Alawites.
  • Rebel groups' initial politeness but growing concerns about future relations.

Shownotes Transcript

Translations:
中文

Today on State of the World, will sectarian groups get along in a new Syria?

You're listening to State of the World from NPR, the day's most vital international stories up close where they're happening. It's Monday, December 16th. I'm Greg Dixon. Syria is made up of a variety of groups or sects within the country. As NPR's Leila Fadl tells us from Damascus, one minority sect feels they were both treated poorly under the now-deposed regime of Bashar al-Assad and also unfairly tied to his legacy.

Syrian dictator Bashar al-Assad was cruel to those he leaned on the most for support.

That's evident as soon as you pull into the Meza 86 neighborhood in the shadow of Esed's palace. Cinderblock homes, unfinished. There are no roofs on some of the homes. And the people in the area say, they say about us that we got rich from the Esed regime. They say about us that we were with him. Look at our situation. We're the poorest. It's a largely Alawite neighborhood, the religious sect of the Esed family. And many here have someone who served in the military, but also who fought with the rebels.

Now, with Assad gone, they fear that they'll be blamed for the crimes he and his top loyalists committed against Syrians, even though they say they were victims of the same oppressions. As soon as I start to ask questions, a crowd gathers around me. Ibrahim Issa emerges to explain why so many Alawites stay in military service. You're poor, you're hungry.

The regime would make us poor. They wouldn't give us food or drink or jobs. They would make us poor by burning our agriculture, our forests, so we wouldn't work in agriculture, forcing us into the army.

When Syria's peaceful uprising began in 2011, it was met with violence from the regime and turned into a civil war that pitted the country's sects against each other. The Sunni Arab majority against the Alawites and other minorities. Alawites are an offshoot of Shia Islam that make up about 10% of the country but dominate the military's top ranks and intelligence. But those elite are a tiny sliver of this largely poor community.

Today, Issa is excited. His blue eyes twinkling and his face lit up with what seems like an incurable smile. With Esad gone, the 27-year-old can finally leave his neighborhood. He was evading mandatory military service. If Esad was still in power, could you be in the street right now? I can't go down there.

He can stay in his neighborhood, but he can't go there. If there's an army car, they would take me, so I wouldn't go down there to the street. He points to the end of the road, a couple blocks from where we stand. We walk down the road to open his family's perfume shop for the day as we continue the conversation. He didn't want to serve in the army because he didn't want to fight against other Syrians.

but also because conscripts were forced to risk their lives on the front lines while being paid next to nothing. If I went to the army, my education wouldn't be enough for me.

If I went to the army, I can't study, and you'll spend eight years getting $17,000 per month, which is the price of these two coffee packets. It's about a dollar on this day. He uses those packets to make us coffee. La'eh Ahmed, a local taxi driver, walks in to join the conversation. Have the rebels come here to talk to the people? No, no. They come here every day.

So they came here, and anybody who's a soldier, they took their military ID and told them, you're a civilian now, and they took away the weapons, and they were very polite. They didn't harm anyone. But Ahmed's starting to sense a shift, even among the people closest to him. His fiancée is Sunni, and before Assad fled, her family all loved him. Now, with Assad gone, some of the uncles have turned. Exactly. They don't want Alawis in their family.

Ghazi Mohammed swings by with a stack of fresh bread. Outside of the neighborhood, of this neighborhood, are you all afraid to say that you're Alawi or it feels safe? No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.

They lie at checkpoints and tell rebel soldiers they're Sunni and from Sunni areas just in case. The three men offer to take us around the neighborhood. A woman in a hot pink nightgown and slippers walks up. She's been arguing with the Sunni neighbors because the pipes have been leaking for months into her home. She takes us inside to show us.

We're talking to our neighbors to fix their pipes. They're not agreeing to. They're coming out of the window and saying, where are the Alawis? The sectarianism is seeping into regular neighborhood disputes.

When I ask her name, she asks if I think Abu Muhammad al-Jolani, Syria's new leader who now goes by his real name, Ahmed al-Shar'a, will hurt her for what she's saying. That's the level of fear right now among Alawites, even as Hayat al-Shar'ir al-Sham, or HTS, Shar'a's group that oversees the transitional government, says Alawites will be protected and part of a new free Syria under some sort of Islamic rule.

This week, Alawite clerics put out a call for general amnesty for every segment of the Syrian population. Everyone, they said, lost lives in the painful events of this war. It is now time to heal.

But back in the neighborhood, none of this feels reassuring. When HTS says anybody with no blood on their hands will be pardoned, nothing will happen, do you believe them? No, no, no. All lies. Now, Mohamed holds up a screenshot of a post he saw on Facebook from a different group. He's saying we're not going to forgive anyone and we will kill the entire Al-Iwisak community.

The threats they're seeing online, combined with the targeted bombings of their neighborhoods by extremists during the civil war, including this neighborhood, is why they're so afraid. They spent the past few days getting rid of any signs of Esset's government and his army, even signs of their own dead. So there is a banner that used to hang right on the middle of this sort of main street of the neighborhood. They removed it because they were scared. There were three soldiers that were killed from the old army.

Two more banners that hung above the narrow roads and alleys further down are also gone. Lamhamed takes us to a truck and points to the hood. It's one of the few tributes left to fallen soldiers still visible. Three men. These are your children? Yes, yes, yes. Tell me who they are. Ishtashir Mikael Ghadir. Ishtashir Mikael Ghadir.

These are your sons? I'm going to paint it to hide their faces. Because it's forbidden to have them now. Is that hard to do? Of course. I'm a father, he says. He puts his hand on the images of his sons. They are my heart. They are my blood.

As we walked back to our car, in the short time we'd been away on our tour, someone had hung a string of Syria's new flags above the garbage-strewn street. A man holds one of them up. It's very, very free. Syria is free. Almost like he feels he has to prove his loyalty to the new men in charge at a time their fate feels so uncertain. That's NPR's Leila Fadl. And that's the state of the world from NPR. Thanks for listening.

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