cover of episode The Israeli soldiers refusing to fight

The Israeli soldiers refusing to fight

2024/12/19
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Azadeh Moshiri:报道了以色列士兵拒绝返回加沙战争前线的情况,并探讨了这一现象背后的原因和社会影响。她采访了多位士兵和专家,揭示了以色列社会内部对战争的复杂态度和深刻分歧。 Fergal Keane:深入采访了拒绝服役的以色列士兵Yuval Green,详细描述了他在加沙的经历以及促使他做出这一决定的原因。他目睹了战争的残酷和破坏,对以色列军队的行为和战争目标产生了质疑。他认为战争被不必要地延长,其目的并非为了营救人质,而是为了内塔尼亚胡的政治利益。 Yuval Green:作为一名战斗医护人员,他最初出于责任感参战,但在目睹加沙的破坏和以色列军队的某些行为后,他开始对战争的正义性和必要性产生怀疑。他拒绝了炸毁房屋的命令,并最终决定离开加沙,不再参与战争。他认为战争的目标已经偏离,不再是为了营救人质,而是为了政治目的。 Major Lipsky:代表了以色列军方和许多士兵的观点,他认为这场战争是生存之战,必须彻底摧毁哈马斯,才能确保以色列的安全。他认为拒绝服役的士兵是将政治置于国家安全之上。 Azadeh Moshiri:介绍了此次事件的背景,包括哈马斯袭击和以色列对加沙的军事行动。她指出,尽管许多以色列人最初感到有责任服役,但一些士兵目睹战争的残酷后,改变了想法。 Fergal Keane:采访了多位拒绝服役的预备役士兵,并分析了他们的动机和观点。他指出,这些士兵的观点并非完全孤立,在以色列社会中也有一定的共鸣。他认为,这些士兵的行动反映了以色列社会内部对战争和政府政策的深刻分歧。 Yuval Green:详细描述了他亲眼目睹的战争场景,包括加沙的破坏、平民的伤亡以及以色列士兵的一些不当行为。这些经历让他对战争的性质和目的产生了深刻的质疑,最终促使他拒绝服役。 Major Lipsky:表达了与拒绝服役士兵截然不同的观点。他认为,这场战争是必要的,为了以色列的生存和安全,必须彻底打击哈马斯。他批评拒绝服役的士兵,认为他们将个人政治观点置于国家安全之上。

Deep Dive

Key Insights

Why did Yuval Green initially decide to return to the army after the October 7th attack?

Yuval felt a sense of national duty after the attack, which killed 1,200 people and abducted 250. He saw it as an existential moment and wanted to protect Israel from further harm.

What specific event in Gaza led Yuval Green to refuse further military orders?

Yuval refused an order to blow up a house in Gaza, as he found the reasons given by his commander insufficient and could not justify the destruction without a clear military purpose.

How did Yuval describe the devastation he witnessed in Gaza?

Yuval compared the destruction in Gaza to an apocalypse, describing buildings leveled by fire and missiles, and a chaotic scene of total devastation.

What were some of the behaviors of Israeli soldiers in Gaza that troubled Yuval?

Yuval witnessed soldiers looting and vandalizing Palestinian homes, using derogatory language about Palestinians, and engaging in acts of disrespect, such as dressing in stolen women's clothes.

What was the core reason Yuval and other reservists refused to continue serving in Gaza?

They believed the war was being prolonged for political reasons, specifically to benefit Israeli Prime Minister Netanyahu, rather than to rescue hostages or protect Israelis.

How does the Israeli military respond to reservists refusing orders?

So far, the military has allowed refusals to go quietly, as prosecuting would likely bring more publicity. However, younger conscientious objectors who have not yet served have faced prison time.

What is the broader significance of reservists refusing to serve in Gaza?

Their refusal reflects deep political divisions within Israeli society, with some viewing the war as necessary for survival, while others see it as prolonged for political gain.

What is the current sentiment among the majority of Israelis regarding the war in Gaza?

A majority of Israelis support a ceasefire and the return of hostages, though many still view the war as necessary to eliminate the threat from Hamas.

How has the Israeli military changed over the past 20 years?

The military has seen an increase in religious nationalists, particularly those supporting settlements in the West Bank and Gaza, leading to concerns among secular and left-wing reservists about the direction of the army.

What is Fergal Keane's overall takeaway from reporting on the conflict in Israel and Gaza?

Keane feels immense sadness, seeing no signs of movement toward peace or a just solution, with the conflict remaining profoundly unstable and deeply divisive.

Shownotes Transcript

The BBC has spoken to Israeli reservists who are refusing to return to the war in Gaza. Imbued with a sense of national duty following the October 7th attack by Hamas, but now troubled by the things they’ve witnessed in Gaza, some Israeli soldiers say they won’t return to the army.

We hear from one soldier who compares the devastation inflicted by Israel’s military in the Gaza Strip to an apocalypse, and said his colleagues would routinely loot and vandalise Palestinian houses, claims denied by the Israeli military authorities.

BBC special correspondent Fergal Keane has spoken to several of them, and tells our presenter Azadeh Moshiri why their stories reflect deep political divisions which exist within Israeli society.

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Producers: Tom Kavanagh and Alix Pickles

Sound engineers: Mike Regaard

Assistant editor: Sergi Forcada Freixas

Senior news editor: Sara Wadeson