Deep Dive
Shownotes Transcript
Hello gang, welcome back to The Honest Drink. Today we sit down with a very interesting guy who has a very colorful past. Here in China, he is known for opening the very first Mexican restaurant in all of Shanghai, and he owns it to this day. That restaurant, of course, is called Cantina Agave. But what you may not know about him is that before Cantina Agave, he was an actor in Hollywood who experienced extreme highs and lows dealing with all kinds of problems.
All sorts of crazy things that came from being a young actor in LA during the height of the 80s. We talk about his struggles with hitting rock bottom and his journey to China, where ultimately he met his saving grace in his wife and opened up one of the most well-known and longest standing Western restaurants in Shanghai. It's a comeback story for the ages. We had a blast with him on a show.
There was definitely a lot of drinking going on. So without further ado, please welcome Rafi Ibrahimian.
Alright guys, Rafi.
Welcome. Thank you. Rafi Wolf. Good to be here. Good to be here on the show. We've been trying to get you on for a long time and busy, huh? Been busy. Been busy. I got a little couple of things that I'm working on right now. Free time is not available. Well, congrats. Thank you. Congrats. You got a kid coming soon. I do in a couple of days. Couple of days. 48 hours away. Your second kid, right? Second kid. Nervous as hell. Damn.
I'm Bruce. Bruce is also here with us. Yeah, I happen to be back in Shanghai, so I thought I'd drop by. And on this occasion, I thought it would be really nice to bring Justin to the On A Stream podcast a really special drink. It's a 30-year-old Glenfiddich. Yes, I have in my hands right now a Glenfiddich 30-year-old bottle that Bruce was kind enough to get for us. This will be by far the most expensive drink.
And hopefully probably the best whiskey we have had on this show. And maybe ever. I'm not anticipating we're going to get another drink another 30-year-old anytime soon.
But for listeners who don't know, today is this, our hosts are Eric and I. I'm Justin. I'm Eric. How we could not be here today. So we got Rafi in the studio with us. And, well, actually, I'm going to, before I get into the introduction, I'm going to open this bottle first. Yeah, let's do that. Well, actually, you want to open this bottle? Sure, sure. I'll do it. I'll do it. I'm kind of the handler, so I'm just sitting in, making sure Rafi doesn't fall over. You're just pouring the drinks today, right? Yeah. Okay. That I don't say anything I shouldn't say or...
And that could easily happen in another minute. Okay. So for guests who don't know, Rafi is a very distinguished member in Shanghai society. Extinguished also. Extinguished. I'm sure most of you have heard of a restaurant called Cantina Agave.
which in my mind, I believe, is the very first Mexican restaurant in Shanghai, right? Yes. Because when I got here over a decade ago, it was the only Mexican restaurant that I could even find. Correct. So how long have you guys been around? In November, it'll be 11 years. Damn. 11 years. 11 years. Mexican restaurant for 11 years in Shanghai. That is not easy. To be honest, any foreign-owned restaurant,
restaurant in Shanghai only a handful 11 years yeah yeah I'm sorry it's not easy the turnover so so it's it's it's a laughing thing throughout the guys like you know when something opens up we always take bets six months a year what do you think how long so what's the secret to your success and the longevity of Cantina Agave then honestly just giving people a good time a bang for their buck
And not, you know, not being over pretentious. You know, it's Mexican food. Yeah. You know, it's not rocket science. You're making tacos and burritos and just give people bang for their buck, some good food, great drinks. Yeah.
So your emphasis is more on just the atmosphere and people just having a good time. Obviously, the food is decent there too, but it's not like you guys are trying to go for a Michelin star or anything like that. You guys just want to make sure it's a place to gather with your friends, have some drinks, eat some good food, and just have a blast, right? What I tell people is, listen, if I'm going on a first date, I would go somewhere else, like somewhere with white tablecloth, all that. If I'm going out with the guys and...
you know, guys having a good time, friends, all that. I go to Cantina, you know, it's all about the atmosphere and there's no pretentiousness. Yeah. Well, Cantina is for a long time has always been the kind of,
designated meetup spot for a bunch of our friends, right? Yeah. It's either the pre going somewhere or a lot of times the post. The after party. Yeah. And that's when it's not pretty. Well, it's great to have you on the show. Cheers, guys. Cheers, guys. Let's try this. I know Raffi doesn't drink vodka, so. Oh, yeah. You mean whiskey? I mean whiskey. By 30 years old, I got to try. Jesus Christ. That is fucking good. Yeah.
Wow. Well, that was really good. And I think it's time for... So, Raffy, you bought your own bottle of vodka? I did. Because you don't like the dark stuff. We're talking about alcohol, right? Yeah. I don't like the dark stuff. Oh, boy. We'll just keep it at that.
All right. So is there anything new going on with the Cantina lately? There is. What's going on? There is. Right now, we're in talks right now of opening in Bali. Bali? Bali. Why Bali of all places? It's just a great place. I mean, I just got back from there like a week and a half, two weeks ago. Spent some time there and did some homework and research. I think Bali is the next destination for Cantina. Wow. That's crazy. Bali. Yeah.
And for me, especially, I've got my second kid coming. Great place, honestly, to raise a family. Yeah? Great place to raise a family. The quality of life, it's pretty good. And I've always wanted my daughter to grow up in like an island life kind of a thing. And you can't beat that. Can't beat it. So what is Bali's current kind of F&B scene like? What's the landscape? It's booming, man. It's insane. As far as Mexican food, there's some Mexican food out there. Great restaurants, great food.
The food is suspect, but it's just, it's crazy. It's, it's, the scene is insane. I mean, it's packed every night, people having a good time, but the food is suspect. The food is suspect. Well, in what way? Like just the quality or just like the way they get. That's the funny thing is I went to so many different restaurants out there. The quality is great. Like the quality of the ingredients they got, they can get there is so much better than here, which I don't understand. This is a,
One of the biggest international cities there is. But the quality over there is crazy. Is this fresher? Everything. Just the meats, the vegetables. It's insane. So what's suspect then? The business aspect of it? No, it's just the taste and the flavors. It's just, I don't think they put a lot of heart into it because I think all they're worried about is drinking. It's the alcohol. You know, it's the bar scene. Not as much as the restaurant side of it, as much as the bar side of it.
So what's it like running a restaurant in Shanghai? Pure hell. I love it to death, but Jesus. People ask me, so what do you think about us opening a restaurant? I tell everybody, no, don't get into the F&B scene because it will eat you up alive. Okay, so let's make a distinction though because the F&B scene in general, no matter what country you're in, is notorious to be hell. True.
Is there anything that's unique to it, to running an F&B in Shanghai in particular that makes it more of a help? Yes. I think over here it's so cutthroat. Pretty much when you walk down the street, almost every other business is either a bar or restaurant. You won't find that back in the States, like in LA where I'm from. I mean, everything here is either a bar or restaurant. Everybody that comes out here, even if they're in a different form of business, they're
They want to open a bar or restaurant. I don't know what happens to people when they come here. They're in finance. They're in real estate, whatever field they're in. Within six months, all of a sudden you say, I think I want to open a bar or restaurant. Like that's, it's just weird. It's strange. But every other shop that you walk down, it's either a bar or restaurant.
So it's a cutthroat. Do you think that's partly because maybe Shanghai is – in terms of for expats is getting kind of a reputation as like a party city now? It used to be a lot more of that. Now I think that's dying down. Number one, because of all the regulations coming in.
And number two, it's that everybody's starting to see like, oh my God, people open in six months a year, they're out again. And then all that money is gone. You know, people are starting to open their eyes a little bit, but it's still cutthroat. Back then, I think also the clientele of the expats coming in was a lot different than what it is now. You know, now you've got a lot of younger, pretentious little punks coming in. It wasn't that way before. And that's a big difference now.
What do you mean by punks though? Just because they're young? They just come in with dad's money, their family's money. They come in, they drop like four or five hundred US on a place they open and then in six months it's over and it's like,
What did you think? And they don't do their homework. You know what I mean? Oh, I'm going to open a bar. I'm going to open a restaurant and then we'll kill it. No, you won't. It doesn't work that way. But it's still the mindset. I think a lot of people underestimate who haven't been around, not necessarily even have to be in the F&B scene, but just been around people or worked in the peripheries. They all kind of understand how tough it is.
And for a lot of people who haven't been around and just go to restaurants and eat casually and they look at it, they're like, oh, I can do this. Find a good chef, find a nice place and open it up and have some capital and I can do it. But it never works out that way. Also, let's be honest. I got lucky because I came in at a time where, I mean, we were one of the first foreign restaurants to open back in the day. So I got lucky that I started at that level.
Because there wasn't a lot of competition and all that. So we grew from there. Now coming in and opening now, it's like 100 times better.
a hundred times more difficult. It's a completely different scene now. - Yeah, your timing. - Like starting now. - Yeah, your timing was great. - Yeah, it was perfect. - 'Cause you guys were kind of like element fresh. You guys came in really early when there wasn't an abundance of Western food in Shanghai. And not only was the landscape more wide open, but you guys actually provided good food. It wasn't like it was bad food, but it was the only choice. No, it was actually decent. And so you guys created this brand, this name,
And yeah, I think the timing, I mean, if you were to come in now, who would you see as, or, I mean, because you guys are still doing well now, who do you see in terms of the Mexican food landscape in Shanghai as like your biggest competitors? That's the funny thing. I don't see anybody as my competitors. You know what I mean? Also because I'm friends with almost all the owners and, you know, we have a good relationship. I'm good friends with them. So I don't really see them as competitors because they're,
What I do, what they do is different. They have Mexican restaurants, but a lot of them try to do this like fancy stuff like, oh, I'm going to get into this weird flavor and I'm going to do this. I'm going to do that. You know what I mean? For me, it's just Cali and Texi Mex. That's it. Like it's just simple, downright simple. And a lot of the other guys that I see are not simple, simple.
They're trying to be like fusion. Yeah, a lot of fusion. A lot of fusion. Well, you're just going back to the basics. Just go with the staple foods. And I'm just going to stick with that. That's it. Although I do have a couple of tacos coming out soon. You know, it's also because of my wife being from Hunan. So we're bringing a couple of tacos with Hunan and fusion. Oh, so you guys are doing the fusion thing too. No, no, just a couple. Just two. Just two because I actually love it. Couldn't resist, could you? Because I want it. I love it. Just to give it a little kick in the ass.
So within the industry, you guys have like your own kind of industry, like club, like where in terms of like, you guys are all like, you know, all the owners, you guys know all the industry people. F&B seen here is small. You guys all know each other. Especially if you've been here a long time. I know I would say, honestly, 80, 90% of the F&B owners in town.
uh what's what's that what's that atmosphere like what's that culture like is it more of a like you guys are always helping each other out and sharing resources or is it kind of more competition with it no i would say helping and sharing i would say probably 90 of the fmb owners that i know if i ask for something no problem wow if they ask me for something no like it's just it has to be a community because if you're out for each other's blood honestly you're not going to last
So is that some, like you're in the F&B business, you know, and not only in this country, I think, I bet you know, you know, in all sorts of places. Is that unique to Shanghai or is that typical? Unique.
unique really absolutely i know i'm from la so i know a lot of fmb guys out there cutthroat they wouldn't help each other out if their life depended on it period they all they do when they go to sleep at night i wish that guy would just burn down his whole place like that's it so what do you think it is about this place honestly because you know shanghai is a
It's a big international city, right? But the F&B scene is small. Like as far as, remember, we all live here. We're foreigners. So the foreigner F&B scene here is not that big. It's a small community and we all have to get along because we're all foreigners. At the end of the day, we're all foreigners here. I don't care if you own whatever bar, whatever restaurant, anything. At the end of the day, we're all foreigners here. It's the same. I apply it the same as the friends I have here.
They are my family because none of us have immediate family here, but your friends become your family here. We look out for each other's backs because if we didn't, we'd be screwed. You know, you can't just live here by yourself. And no, like the friends I have here are my brothers. That's my family. Same as the F&B community. F&B community here has to be family, period. You cannot just be cutthroat. You won't make it, period, because you'll be ousted in a heartbeat. Right.
Do you think also, and I'm just asking, do you think also a part of it could be because as foreigners, you guys kind of have this unspoken or maybe even unconscious view of like you guys have a common enemy. And that common enemy can sometimes be like the government and regulations and licensing and sanitation. And you know how it is here. I will tell you one thing. I wouldn't say that because if you play by the book, you won't have any problems.
You know what I mean? Like just play by the book. You know, since you live in another country, play by their rules. This is the regulations they set out. They don't come and gouge you though? Nope. Nope. To this day, I've had three restaurants, not one time, not one single time. Play by the rules, play by the regulations. You won't have a problem, period. Like you just won't.
Just don't be an ass. Don't try to go around something. You know what I mean? Don't try to be sneaky or don't try to fast track something. Don't try to be tricky. Yeah. Like there's no need for that. Play by the rules. You got no problem. It's their rules. If you don't like it, like you know how the old saying is, you don't like it, get the hell out. Play by the rules. You won't have a problem. Are the rules sometimes hard to follow? Of course they are. But let's be honest. They would be in any other country. Yeah. If I go to LA and open a restaurant,
Like in LA, you can't get a liquor license. They don't give them out anymore. You have to buy an established place that has a liquor license. Oh, transfer. And that's it. And those transfer fees are insane. So it's just same as anywhere else. Just got to play by the rules. Let's be honest too. When I first started, those rules were a lot more relaxed than they are now. You know what I mean? So for me, like I said, for me, timing was everything.
So for me, those rules were a lot less when I first started than they are now. I couldn't imagine starting all over again now
Coming in fresh new that would be like a while a whole set of problems You probably wouldn't even choose to do FMB if this what I would but it would be such a huge question mark and a risk factor there that I don't know if I would be willing to take that chance But back then that risk factor and a question mark was minute compared to what it would be now. I
Well, speaking of back then, what's your origin story then? Because you said you came from LA. Well, I was born and raised in Philly. Born and raised in Philly. Okay, so what's your origin story and what's the story and what's your journey coming over to China? Can you explain? Can you describe that? How much time you got?
We got plenty of time. Don't worry. Until we finish that bottle. And then some of it has to be edited, I think. Well, just don't say anything that you're not uncomfortable talking about, you know? I'm not uncomfortable with anything, but, you know. Let's have a drink first. Let's have a drink first. Yeah, let's have more drinks. This is not going to be pretty. No, man, don't worry. It's just a conversation amongst friends. You don't have to talk about anything you're not comfortable talking about. So I'm originally from Philly.
That's why in my house, if you go in now, my daughter sleeps with a Philadelphia Eagles blanket. I have Eagles gear just everywhere in the house. Like it's every room, every whatever you can think of, helmets, jerseys, little, what do they call those little thing? Bobbleheads. Bobbleheads everywhere. It's just filly, filly, filly.
So that's where my heart will always be. But I moved from Philly to L.A. when I started high school. So fairly young, about 15, 16 years old. My dad said, we're out because all his relatives, he's got five brothers, one sister, everybody was living in L.A. And the winters were getting to them. And I think what did it is we had a snowstorm one time. My mom went out to shovel the snow off the driveway. She fell and hurt her back. And my dad said, we're out.
So then we made plans to go to L.A. and then we moved to L.A. and I started high school in L.A. in Glendale. That's where all the Armenians are. So how old were you when you guys went to L.A.?
almost 16. Were you born in Philly? Yeah. Okay. So you were about 16 years old when you went to LA. So really kind of your adolescence really kind of grew up in LA. Yes. Yeah. And that was an experience in itself. How so? Because, you know, in back East and East Coast, West Coast, it's quite a bit of difference. You know, East Coast, when you're growing up, like your boys are your boys. You know what I mean? Yeah. You don't give a rat's ass what you're wearing, what you're wearing, what you're like.
No one cared. Yeah, exactly. West Coast, it's all about, it's material. It's also judgmental. And everyone's a lot more sensitive out there, right? Yeah, yeah. Like back East. Back East, you, yeah. It's just if I said, listen. You bust each other's balls like it's nothing. And we did. Yeah. And even if you got in a fight, like I would wrestle you to the ground and all that. And then you'd be boys. That's it. But on the West Coast, it's different. You know what I mean? It's what you wear, what you drive. Everybody's like judging you, everything. Like,
It's just stupid. So how was your time there then? You know, growing up was a little tough. A little tough going through high school, especially when I didn't know anybody or anything. Being from the East Coast and then going to high school, starting all over again, basically. And just meeting the guys who are now the same guys I know. So I've known my friends back in L.A.,
As soon as I moved to LA. So I've known them about 39 years. And then just meeting those guys, getting to know them and then becoming friends with them. And that has its obstacles mentioned. Being out there at 16 years old, starting fresh, meeting new people and starting new friends and stuff. So it was difficult at the beginning. It's just like when you start college, you get razzed on. I got razzed on because remember, those guys knew each other
since from like elementary school. And then all of a sudden this guy's coming in and trying to talk to us like, who am I? You know? But then, you know, through high school was tough, but it got better through like the senior year. And then after that, just finding out what I wanted to do. Tried college. You know, my dad, go, go, go, go, go. I didn't really want to because remember, this was like in 1980, 1981. I graduated high school in 83.
So back then it was all about cars. And all I wanted to do was just cars, cars, cars. My dad said, no, college, college, college. No. I remember in my senior year, I had three hours of auto mechanics. Like no one has three hours of auto mechanics. I did. And my first car was a 69 Camaro. I was about to say Camaro. It was a 69 Camaro, which by the way, when I actually did go to college, my dad sold without telling me, but.
To this day, it still angers me because you know how much that car's worth now. But going through that, finally, by the time I got to college, all that, I did a year, not for me. Went to another college, did a year of that, wasn't for me.
Just came back to LA. So you never finished college? Did not finish college. Nope. So, so where, what did you do afterwards? Like, did you just jump right into like starting a professional career or? Actually went into auto mechanics. Okay. Working on cars. So I did all that. And then just by chance, I guess, right place, right time. It's weird. You know, it's, it's LA, right? It's Hollywood. Yeah. And I was right at Hollywood. I met a casting director. Okay. Working on her car.
What's Bruce laughing at? I'm not. We're on pins and needles on this part of the story. This is not a good part. I've never heard the story. So you got into acting? I actually was working on her car and then we just, me and her started talking and stuff. She's an older woman.
And I guess they were casting some TV show and she was, oh, why don't you just come? You know, just as, I don't know if she was joking or not, whatever. I said, yeah, sure. Left it like that. And then like two, three days later, she actually called and said, why don't you come by? And I said, okay. And that's when the acting career started. Okay. And then after that, I actually got that part, did that TV show. And then, you know, got an agent and then did some more TV and some more movies and
What TV show was that? Yeah, let's just call it that. You were in MacGyver, right, at one stage? I did Hill Street Blues. And you've got to understand, this is all the 80s TV shows. Yeah. The best ones. Yeah, yeah. So, you know, I did all that. Did some movies. So were you just like extras? No, no, no, no. I've been in the Screen Actors Guild since 1988. Oh, wow. Okay. So 31 years. And I'm still an active member.
Oh, really? Yeah. Do you still vote? What kind of characters did you play? The villain, for sure. So back in the day, because I was younger, so I used to play a lot of gang members. You look like a gang member. A lot of gang members, gang leaders. Got your side card right here. As a few years went by,
I started getting a lot of terrorist roles, to be perfectly honest. So you started getting typecast? I did about five, six terrorist movies back to back. Really? And it was okay because it was great money. And my average was, you know, you work one or two months and then it would be six months just spending that money on whatever you can think of. We'd go on ski trips for three, four weeks, me and the guys, and that would cost like $10,000, $15,000 U.S.,
We didn't care. Dude, I was young. Early 20s, we gave a shit. So all the money that you were earning back then, you were just spending right away. Yep, didn't keep a dime. Just living life. Didn't keep a dime. You guys were partying. Yep, didn't keep a dime. It was some of the best time of my life. Really? Because you would work for one or two months and you would take like five, six, seven months off. So what would you guys do with that money? Just spend it. Like go out, work.
Go to trips. Gamble or what? Gamble, go to trips, like whatever you can take up. I'm telling you, three, four weeks like we used to go skiing, that would cost easy $15,000. Mm-hmm.
Just spend the hell out of it. Just you and your boys? Yeah, didn't matter. Well, you had like an entourage a little bit? Yeah, it was, you know, so that movie is actually pretty spot on. Really, entourage? Yeah, pretty spot on. The show? The show. So we, you know, the guys I used to go do that were also actors. And we also do, everybody did the same thing. Like, you know, we used to work a little bit and then, hey, let's go here. And then everybody takes a month or two off and we just go. No one gave a shit because that was our job.
you know, our job was acting and then you just stop in a month or two and then we just go have fun. No one had to report to anybody. So what was, what was the Hollywood industry like back then? This was in the eighties, right? Yeah. A lot better than now. That was like the height. A lot better than now because of one thing, no social media. So you could literally do whatever you wanted without,
it ever being recorded or sent out or people knowing about it it was so much better would you be able to survive in today's world no no not with the antics that we did no god no can you get into some of these antics you don't have to you have no pressure tell us uh like the fourth or fifth most crazy story doesn't have to be the most crazy
Did you have a pager back then? Is that what you rode around with? Yeah, yeah, yeah. We actually had a pager that would just go up, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep. It was so weird, man, because we didn't have cell phones. They didn't exist. And then that first cell phone came, and it was like a freaking brick. Yeah. It was insane. There was a period also, hmm. So you lived the VIP life in there? I did. I did. I did. So...
Oh, why are you looking at me like that? Because, you know, there's also a little thing in there. Because, you know, once you do that, you got to remember all the people that used to hang around, right? And also, you know, since we weren't like the leading actors and all, we were all character actors. So we weren't the leading actors and all that. So we weren't pretentious. And then, you know, you talk to a lot of the extras and you become friends with them and, you know.
somehow you end up in a porno movie. - You ended up in a porno movie? - You end up in a porno movie. I didn't say me, but maybe. - Maybe. - You end up in a porno movie. - So hypothetically, what was this character's name? - There's no way on earth that that name will come out. There's actually one person in Shanghai that knows that name of the character, that knows the name of the movie, and he swore because if he ever says that, he's dead. - So hypothetically, what was it like?
It was fun. It was fun. And the movie was okay. But what happens, the extracurricular stuff is insane. So you've heard of the 80s and early 90s, like the parties that happened at the houses. Well, that was like when like, what, like cocaine was at a tight, right? That was, wow. So-
I'll give you an example. You walk into a party that, say, one of the big actors or one of the directors or one of the producers are holding, 99.99% in San Fernando Valley at a nice house on the hill, whatever. As soon as you walk in, as soon as you walk through the door, there's a couple of guys standing right there.
One has a tray of literally three, 400 joints that it's just like a mountain, right? They're all pre-made, pre-done. He's got that tray here. And another guy is holding a tray of say one or two easy, one or two kilos of Coke. He's got that there. That's before you barely even walk in. That's like the two butlers that greet you. Yeah, that's at the front door. That's the hors d'oeuvres. And then as soon as you do that, you walk in. What? And then you've got pretty much 30, 40 people walking.
I'd say all naked, just having their way with each other. But what's funny is it's such a laid back atmosphere that you've got people having sex everywhere in a backyard, at the pool, on the couch, in the corner. And then when you're done, you know, you just chit chat for a few minutes and then you just walk away and go to somebody else. Like,
It's exactly what you've heard, like the stories you've heard. So like the stereotypes, like in the cliches, like you see in these documentaries of Pablo Escobar in the 80s, it's all, it's real. It's true. What I experienced. What you experienced. God, the 80s were awesome. Yes, they were. The late 80s were, oh boy.
So, okay, so... That might have to be edited, by the way. Maybe. Did you go to the Playboy Mansion? I've gone to the Playboy Mansion quite a few times. Have you ever met Hugh? Yes. Yeah, you did? Yes. What was he like?
Fun. He's a nice guy. He just says hi to you. He doesn't stay around the parties. You know what I mean? He just shows face. Yeah, and then he goes away. He's got his little entourage. You don't go there to actually hang out with you. You go there for the party atmosphere and the chicks and other people, and you just hang out and talk. It's a great time. It's fun. What were the parties at the Playboy Mansion like?
I mean, like, did it get, like, you know, real crazy or was it more, like, just more tame? Or, like, what was it really like? I'm going to say it was a great time. I'll leave it at that. Wow. Yeah. So the grotto is real. And then did you have to wear, like, pajamas to that party? I've seen people not, but usually, you know, you do. But I've seen people not. But it was a great time. Great people. Honestly, great.
It was just all fun. It was pure, clean fun over there. There's a bunch of playmates just hanging around. Yeah. And just regular people, too. It was just, you know, you get invited and you go. Okay. It was fun. So how long did this period in Hollywood last for you? Probably a good seven years, probably. Oh, seven years. Damn. Yeah. Okay. So you were acting. So you had roles on various TV shows, TV shows.
- There may or may not have been a role in a porno, maybe. - May or may not, yeah. - Okay. You got to go to the Playboy Mansion. You partied and hung out with your friends. So that seven years was just, in your words, you're saying it was one of the, some of the best years of your life. - Yeah, you just enjoyed the hell out of it. I mean, it was, you make your money, you enjoy it, you have fun, 'cause you know, you're so young that-- - Well, how old were you during that time? - Early 20s. - Oh, wow, okay.
So you don't really have the future set up already. You're just, it's just a great time. Were you going to the gym a lot? Like, did you have? I was back then. Yeah. I was back then. Rashi was very handsome back then. Oh, I mean, still is. Still is. Not so much. Silver Fox. Not so much now. You were handsome, bro. So. Well, you've seen my WeChat profile. Yeah. That was my acting picture. Oh, that was your acting picture? Yeah.
So now, obviously many years later and as an older man, you look back on that period of your life. How do you reflect on it now? Are there any lessons that young people can learn from? Or are there any kind of realizations that you've had from that period of your life? Here's a funny thing. I asked myself that. Would I have changed anything back then?
No. I would not have changed anything. So you don't regret a damn thing? No. Yeah. You know, sometimes I say, man, what if I would have saved all that money? But then what? Then I would have missed out of all the experiences that I did go through. You know, for every yin, there's a yang. Yeah. So if I didn't spend that money...
I would have never had the great experiences of, God, I've got these experiences in Mammoth. And for like three weeks we were there, you know, you've got your keg on the fucking balcony and the guys, you know, over there, you just ski up right to your condo. And then you're just pouring the keg from the balcony into the guy's mouth. And then he skis away. Yeah. So it's a slope side. That's exactly what happened. It's like a gas station. But I would have never had that experience if I didn't do that. So, yeah. Yeah.
So back then in the late 80s, were these reoccurring roles in TV shows? A couple of reoccurring roles, but a lot of them were. What was the pay like? How much money were you making? Back then it was like $2K a day. $2K a day? Back then it's not. Average? Yeah, it was pretty fucking good. That's why you work for a month, you're getting $50,000, $60,000, $40,000, whatever it is. Then you're just spending that. I mean, back then that was a lot of money.
Okay. And we spent it. You spent it. We spent it. Okay. So that was your Hollywood and that career and that lasted seven years. So what, how, how did that end? That actually ended when one of my friends said, Hey, come and help me out. Um, what are you doing? And at that point I was not doing anything. And he said, you know what? I want to start a clothing line. Uh, come and help me out. And, um, I said, all right. And we started literally doing clothes in the garage. And then, um,
Just having fun with it. But, you know, his family and his siblings were into that. And then he wanted to get into it. So we did. And we started making some clothes and selling it. No big deal. And then we tried to get a little bigger. And we went to Texas and opened a factory in Mexico. We were in Laredo. And then we went to Nuevo Laredo. And we opened a factory in Nuevo Laredo. We got a house in Laredo. And that started going off and off and off.
And we're getting where our sales are going higher and higher and higher. And then funny story, one day how we went over to the next level on on clothing manufacturing side is we're sitting there. All of a sudden, these two guys come right before lunch. These guys come into the office. Remember, you're going to say Laredo, Texas is right on the border, like southern border of Texas, right?
Not a lot of foreigners or any other person that doesn't live there are going to be there. These two guys come in, and the secretary tells us, hey, there's two guys coming to see you. But we go, who? Don't know. They came to the office, and they said, hey, you know what? We've heard about your clothes because we were making military BDUs. You know what BDUs are? No. You know the camouflage pants with all the pockets and stuff that the military wears? That's what we were doing. We were one of the first persons to start that.
So you had government contracts? Yeah, back in the day. Wow. And then they came in and said, we'd like your clothes. Can you do our government's clothes? And this was a Middle East government. And we said, what are you talking about? Well, we'd like to give you an order. They said, okay, sure. And then they actually wrote a checkout and gave us a down payment. And this was right about lunchtime. We said, okay, let's go to lunch. We went to lunch. We gave the check to the secretary and said,
go see what happens with this. And me and my partner are just laughing. We go to lunch and, you know, we're just having a good time because this is just a joke. And she calls us in the middle of the lunch and says, by the way, the check went through. It's in our bank. That was for a half a million dollars. It's probably the biggest check we had at that time. And we said, oh shit, these guys are serious. And then that order took us to the next level. And then we became one of the biggest hunting, military and hunting companies
Apparel manufacturers? Apparel manufacturers, period. And then you guys were manufacturing out of Mexico at that time? At that time, Mexico, all of it in Mexico. And then that got to the point where it was just getting a little too corrupt after a few years. Then we went to China, Bangladesh, and Sri Lanka. That lasted for a few years. And then that was not, you know, that had its own set of problems. And then we tried, let's try China. And then we tried China. The first time I came in China was 1995.
So once we got to China and we started it, and I got to tell you, to this day, and I've tried manufacturing in so many other different parts of the world, it's still the best place. One of the most honest, you know what I mean, that I could still deal with. And back in the day, it was a lot better because once they saw that the foreigner coming in with the order, wow, it's so much different than now. You got to understand, back in the day, you can pick and choose who you want it.
Now they pick and choose who they want to work with. Leverage is in the factory's hands. But same as a restaurant right now. Back when I opened 11 years ago, I can pick and choose who I wanted staff-wise. Now I need staff for years and years. There's not one F&B in the city that doesn't need staff. But now they pick and choose who they want to work for. Everything's changed. Same as a manufacturer.
- Well, that's a natural effect of kind of like the rise of the economy, the society and all the infrastructure and everything that goes with it, right? So, okay. So it was the apparel, your apparel career, manufacturing career that got you to China. - Yes. - And then you stayed in China? - Well, back in the day, I was going back and forth since '95. And then when I used to come here, I spent a good two, three weeks average. And that was almost every six to eight weeks I was here.
Like it was just regular. And then one thing I noticed is there was no Mexican food at the time. And that was my one, you know, being from LA for all those years now, that's part of my comfort food. So I remember the first thing I did when, as soon as I used to go back to LA, the first thing I used to do was get a burrito. Like even before I even went home from the airport, I should go through Taco Bell. Oh, thank God I got my burrito fix because for three weeks, couldn't do anything.
And that got me started thinking like, man, nobody opens, excuse me, how come no one opens anything here? And for years and years, that was in my head, in my head. And, you know, coming all out here with those many times, some friends in Shanghai, and I used to talk to them about it. And then one of my friends said, oh, I know a person, why don't you talk to her and stuff? And this was still just an idea. And I talked to her and that idea started snowballing more and more.
And then one day, and I was getting tired of doing the clothing. It's about 15 years into it now. And I said, you know what? I think I'm kind of done. You know, you get that weird feeling in your stomach like it's time to move on. It was time to move on for me. And that's when I said, I'm going to make the move, come out here. And I just wanted to open up a small taco joint. Like what I opened to what I envisioned are two different things. I envisioned a small little place.
10, 20 square meter taco joint just pumping tacos out. And then the first one when I opened was 185 square meters where the original cantina is now. And then that's all she wrote. And then once I made that decision, finally I said, I'm going to resign from the old company and I'm just going to move out here and do tacos. And then everybody thought I was crazy back home. Wait, 15 years you worked, you grew the company, all that.
My family and friends wanted to have me just admit it. They wanted to have an intervention with you, basically? And admit it into a psych ward. Really? Because you've got to be crazy. Like literally? Yeah. And I said, it's not what I want. I'm done. It's just not what I want to do anymore. I'm done. I was happy coming here, and I was really depressed on the flight back to L.A., and I had gone through a divorce.
Yeah, we skipped that part. So was that, did that have a lot to do with it? It did because I got sick and tired of being in LA and it was a pretty fucked up divorce. And I just said to the point where, you know what, I need to leave here because it took me to a dark place because I got into some extracurricular activities that I knew if I kept going down that road, I'd be done. Dead? Dead. Dead.
And I said, it's time for me to move on. If I don't, I'm dead. Because there was a couple of instances that I had where I'm surprised I'm still alive. So I said, if I don't make a move now, I'm done. Like literally done. And that's when I said, I got to get out. So I got out and moved. What kind of, I mean, if you're willing to share, what kind of instances were these? It was drug related. Okay. And it was, I wouldn't call it an OD. Okay.
probably as close as you can get and it was a good two three times of that and i just said i i gotta get out because it was it was it was heavy so what was that realization like because i think for a lot of people when they're in that state of mind a lot of people never get out of that right like what what made you just kind of have this wake-up call and be like okay well i gotta get my mom feeling that if she ever got that phone call and then she ever found out the reason i i
It really just made me cry all the time. It was my mom. It was not having her hear the reason why he's gone. He's gone. He's gone. Fuck it. Right. It is what it is. It happens because my brother passed away like seven years ago. But the reason why the reason that reason why I couldn't live with.
Couldn't live with. It was make that decision or that's exactly what's going to happen is your mom is going to hear that reason because there was no way around that. It was going to happen if I didn't move. So was this the thought you were having consciously at that time or is it now in retrospect, you reflect on it and you- No, at that time. At that time. So you're consciously thinking about that. Yeah, at that time. If I don't leave now, if I don't make this move-
she's going to get that phone call, period. So it was more about geography. You just need to get out. This is LA you're talking about, right? So you just needed to, you wanted to get out of that environment. So it wasn't necessarily the work. No, it was the work too. I just got, you know, and I told the guys I could do the same thing when I'm doing LA from here even better. I'm close to the factories and stuff, but
we didn't see eye to eye on that but it was mainly get the hell out of la like now and you just you just wanted a a clean start so fresh sheet of paper just to kind of start all over on just leave everything else behind yep literally leave everything behind just done so did you have friends that helped you through this process no everybody thought i was crazy literally everybody thought i was crazy
Then no one. Well, did anyone know what you were going through? I would say at the most two, three people. But still they thought you were crazy. Those guys know, but they also didn't want me to move halfway around the world to try to, you know. They didn't think that was the answer. Right, right. But, you know, you got to understand when you're going through shit like that, no one's going to know and no one's going to feel what you're going through.
Only person is you, period. I don't care if it's your best friend because at the end of the day, your best friend's going home. You're at night laying down in bed and going through this shit and then going through whatever you're going through because you did so much of this and so much of that, but they're home.
You're going through this and then you wake up with all this shit. You know what I mean? At the end of the day, it's you. You got to make the decision. At this point, were you in your late 30s, early 40s? Late 30s. Late 30s. Late 30s, early 40s. And would you consider this kind of like, would you classify this as a midlife crisis? I would classify this as a live or die, life or death situation.
I'm telling you right now. We would not be having this conversation if I did not make that decision. I'd be done. You were really just running for your life at that point. Yeah. If I don't make that decision now, I'm done. That's the extent that the partying was going on at that moment. From the time that you had these initial thoughts to taking that drastic action, how long was it? Six to nine months. Six to nine months.
I was partying even before that, but having a good time doing both work party, work party. But when those two, three times that completely went south, it was six to nine months. So there was a point where you made a decision to move to China for good. Yeah. And was that kind of just like an overnight thing? You just packed your bags and just came here? It was an overnight thing.
But it took about 30 days to get here. Why is that? I had to clean the house, get rid of the house, all that. Oh, wow. So you really just left. You sold off everything? Everything. Like literally down to the last mirror and TV. So the good thing, one thing that happened luckily is there was one of my friends said, oh, this guy wants to buy some stuff. He's got a house in South America that he needs to fill out.
He literally came and bought every fucking thing I had in my house down to the mirrors, the sofa, all the furniture in every room, mirrors, TVs, paintings, kitchen. The only thing I was left with was my clothes, which is the only thing I cared about. Like he literally took my house, basically put it in his house in South America. I got like, like it was just stupid. It was fucking insane. Yeah.
He came with three fucking 18 wheelers and just emptied my house. Damn. That was it. He must have envied your lifestyle. Let me tell you, I said thank you and envied him so much because I don't know how that happened. Like it was just imagine one guy clearing you out where I didn't know what the hell to do.
What you thought was going to be like a really like drawn out process of like selling everything. One guy, I'll take everything. Everything. Like literally. I wonder if that guy's in China now. So is that, so like, have you ever thought about visiting that guy to kind of like just reminisce? Nostalgia? That part of that history, I don't want nothing to do with.
So you were selling everything off because it was psychologically because you didn't want any reason to have to come back. Yep. I didn't want anything. No ties. No ties. Only family. And that back then it was my mom and my brother. And now it's just my mom. That's it. That's all I got back home. How common of a story do you think this was like at that period of time, you know, in that area of the U.S.? Why are you giving me water, dude?
Sorry. I didn't think you were listening. Why are you giving me that water, dude? I don't want that water. I don't want that vodka. You're giving me that water. Yeah, that's some fucking shady shit. I wasn't pouring him like a roofie. I wasn't dropping anything. Wow. Reminds me of... All right, so you're just trying to keep him in check. Is that what's going on? That's never going to happen. Wow. Okay, okay. All right, go on. What were you saying, Eric? Sorry.
How common was this for people in that part of the world? Early to mid-90s, partying like that was common. Yeah.
them uprooting everything in our house, I don't know. I don't know if that was that common. I don't think too many people were coming to China at that time. No, they weren't. Now it's common. Like I tell you. Back then, I doubt it. No, when I came out here, so there was nothing foreign at that time. So my breakfast, lunch, and dinner, no joke, was a bowl of rice, soy sauce, and some chili.
And that was it. That's what I ate for breakfast, lunch, and dinner. When you were in China? When I was in China. Why? Because you just couldn't afford anything else or you just didn't want to eat anything else? You know, dude, I, you know, it's, I, it wasn't, you gotta understand the Chinese food here is not the same as Chinese food back home. Yeah. So I wasn't, I wasn't used to that. Even though I was coming out here all those years still, I just wasn't used to it. It wasn't pandemic. I used to, I used to eat at the hotels. But,
But then when you move here, you're not going to eat at the hotels. So I used to eat a bowl of rice with soy sauce and chili. Were you in Shanghai? Shanghai, but I was a lot in Dongguan too. But I've spent a lot of time, like I tell my wife who's Chinese, I tell my wife and she knows it and she agrees. I've seen more of China than I would say 90% of the locals. I've been around almost every town and city in China. I've seen some of the craziest things.
sixth, seventh year shit that you've ever seen. Was it because of work brought you out there? Work. So China was, okay, so out of all the places in the world you could have left LA for, you chose China because you had immediate ties to China through the manufacturing? Yes. Yeah. And I got to tell you, it's the best thing that happened to me. Number one, because I met my wife. It was literally the best thing that's ever happened in my life. Period. Period.
Number one. Were there other places you considered or was China kind of just... I loved Europe at that time, but I wasn't traveling to Europe. I'd been there quite a few times, but it wasn't the comfort factor that I had with China. Mm-hmm.
There was nowhere in the world that I had the same comfort factor that I had with China. So what was China like when you first got here? Wild, wild west. What year? The first time was 95. But moved here 13 years ago. And it was still the wild, wild west. It was just fantastic. So let me ask you this then.
Because I'm just drawing from my own experience, right? And obviously I did not come anywhere near as early as you did. I just got here a little over a decade ago, right? So that was back in like 2008, 2009. About the same time almost. About 95, come on. That was, yeah. Well, that was when you first came, right? Yeah, yeah.
And I agree because we've had, we've discussed this on our previous episodes about the wild, wild East. That is, that was China and Shanghai back then. And now it's so civilized. Now it's so, it's so different now. It's not nearly as quote unquote fun. I told everybody I missed the old Shanghai. I missed the old Shanghai too. And it's crazy. Cause like the young people that come in now, they have no idea. No, they have no idea. And then you try to tell them this and they don't want to hear it. Yeah.
They're like, what do you mean? The clubs are awesome. I go to ASL. I'm like, no, no, no, no. You don't understand. You just don't understand. So to that point, because you got out of LA, and I'm sure for a lot of very personal reasons, but one of the reasons I think was because you were living a lifestyle in LA that you knew you couldn't maintain, and that was ultimately going to lead you down a path where...
death was something that was a very possible outcome. But then you come to Shanghai, and Shanghai back then was the wild, wild east. And in many ways, it could have even been more crazy in terms of that party lifestyle. But you don't have, it's not as available as LA is. Like you didn't have as much access because you were a foreigner, you mean? Of course, of course.
And it wasn't, I mean, it's night and day LA in here, even back then. It's just, you don't do that here. You know what I mean? Like, you know, you get caught with that shit back in LA. What are you going to do? Go in, pay a fine, do some time, and barely, if you do any here, you're done. Yeah. So you get killed that way. So no, never, never fuck with that stuff here.
So the good thing is it cleaned me up. Being here cleaned me up, straightened me up. And I got to tell you, it basically, it was a second lease on life. Saved your life. Yeah. Saved my life. It was your saving grace. It was my saving grace. I swear to God, I would not have been here if it wasn't me moving to Shanghai. Wow. And then I met the most amazing person.
When did you meet your wife? So a little after I moved here. Oh, like pretty soon after you moved here? Because she was the real estate agent that showed me the first location for Cantina. Oh, wow. So she opened Cantina with me because once we signed a location...
we i said oh let's go out and celebrate because we were working on that for three four months i have a different location i was going to come back to that one come back come back and then eventually once we signed i said let's go celebrate and then we went out to dinner and then we were we saw each other 18 days straight after that and then that was it like you guys really bonded yeah we've been together since and she's the love of my life my saving grace my everything and
You know, I have an incredibly, incredibly great daughter because of her. And now we're about to have a son in two days. She gave me the life that I always thought I couldn't have, that I wanted, that I dreamed of. She gave me a family. And she's my family. She's my life. That's, you know, like, I mean, that's so beautiful. And she opened Cantina with me. I mean, she was there. She had a job back then.
And when we first opened, remember, I've never been in F&B. I had not a fucking clue what I was getting into. And knock on wood, the good thing was when we opened, two, three weeks after we opened, we blew up.
So she would come at lunchtime, help me with the lunch rush, which was fucking insane. And then go back to work and then come back at like 5.30 and 6, help me with dinner where I used to literally just shit breaks because I had no clue. I never worked in a restaurant before. I was never a waiter. I didn't know what to expect. It was just fucking insane. And then she used to help me with that. And then we would go home together after that. And a lot of times, like I used to just limp home.
Because I couldn't walk. I'd been at work 16 hours. So we didn't actually have a day off the first six months, not even Saturday, Sunday. Like we didn't have a day off. And then finally it came to a point where I just said, you got to quit. So she quit her job. We'd been working to get like, if it wasn't for her, Cantina would not still be there. I give all the credit to my wife. For Cantina, I give all the credit to Chloe.
So as grueling as it was, were you enjoying every second of it? Oh, hell yeah. Are you fucking kidding me? We would be standing outside and we'd look at each other and we'd go, are you fucking serious? Like, look at this. This is insane. The first two, three years, you could not get a table at Cantina, literally, if you didn't reserve a week in advance, which is nuts. It's not a white tablecloth fucking restaurant. It's just...
It's casual. Like casual, what do you call that? Not fast food. Fast casual. Fast casual. I mean, you couldn't get a table a week in advance. It was insane back then. Yeah, and especially back then. That's saying a lot. Like it was just fucking insane, man. Well, I mean. But I had the time of my life.
Holy shit. I mean, but your location is fucking awesome too, though. Not at that time. Everybody thought I was fucking crazy. Because Don Hulu wasn't built up yet. Fuming Hulu wasn't like the thing it is now. The people I knew back then, they all said, you're stupid. Do not open there. And it was a brand new building, by the way. There was no other tenants in the building. Don't open there. The French concession, the former French concession is...
One of the quietest neighborhoods in town. You cannot open an FMV. There was no bars or restaurants up and down that street. I think the only place that I knew that was open was Element Fresh. And they said, don't. It's just a quiet neighborhood. You're insane putting that money into it. But I kept loving the building. And I kept seeing that little outdoor, being from L.A., what do people want to do with burritos and tacos? Have a margarita.
And it took a while to get the landlord saying, oh, we can use that outside space for the terrors. Once we got that, I said, I got a sign. I got a sign. Everybody said, no, no, no. So I fought that battle for a few months until finally I just said, I don't care. This is, you know, it's my money going into it, not other people. Like, I understand their opinion, but...
I like it. I enjoy it. I love the building. I love this outside. Yes, there was no foot traffic back then around that area. Zero. Yeah, because there was no commercial value back then. No, no. It was the quietest neighborhood. Like where we are right now, Fung Win Lu, and our little space right before Dong Hu Lu, that was a two-way street. Now it's a one-way street going down Fung Win Lu. But that was a two-way street back then. Like it was quiet, dead quiet.
And I said, I don't care. I'm going to open up. And then I opened up. And by the way, now we're the oldest tenant in that building. That's how many times everything's turned over. Now everybody says, oh my God, this is the best location in all of Shanghai. Not at that time. Well, now it's the literal epitome of prime location in Shanghai. It's called the corner. There's a reason why it's called the corner. Everybody loves that corner.
So how do you deal with the rent increase from back then till now? Like, it must be crazy, right? It is high right now, but there's nothing you can do. I mean, you got to go with the times. But what's funny is I've never raised my prices. My margarita is the same now that it was 11 years ago when I opened. So how does that affect your business? Well, obviously the numbers. Imagine 55 RMB back then.
You're making good numbers. No one was paying 55 RMB back then. Oh, yes, they were. Oh, they were back then? And they were, and they were. And then paying 50 RMB... That's a lot back then. But your percentages go down. Like what, you know. Yeah, it's still all right. We do okay. That's great. Cheers. Okay. Cheers. But I'll never give that spot. That's why... No, no, no. I would never give that spot up. That is the prime spot in all of Shanghai. That's my corner. That's where everybody knows Cantina. It's Cantina. So what's...
I have a question for everyone. What's your favorite dish at Cantina? Who are you talking to? All of us. Well, you know it the best. You are your personal. I know my personal. Yeah, but I just want to, you know, haven't been in a while. I like the new chicken tacos.
The new chicken tacos. What are the new chicken tacos? So it's not even a taco outside. It's actually a fried chicken taco. There's a fried chicken taco with a garlic aioli. That's fucking insane. I'm hungry. And...
Ode to my wife, a Hunan cumin beef taco. Fusion. That's... Is it though? We live in China. We live in China. Don't shit on fusion. Don't shit on fusion. It's cumin. I actually do shit on fusion. He's a purist. He's a purist. When you say cumin, when you say cumin, it brings back those porn days.
So that's a funny thing. Cumin is probably my favorite fucking spice there is. It's a great spice. It works on every meat. Lamb, chicken, beef. I just enjoy smelling it. Like, it's fucking awesome. And we have it at home a lot because my wife is one of the best fucking...
cooks there is for Hunan food. And I just said one day, honey, let's just put your cumin beef on a taco. And it just, it's insane. So by the way, just disclosure, I'm a quarter Hunanese. My grandma. A quarter. So my mom eats like crazy spicy shit. So I totally get you. So all we do at home. So we're trying, you know, we're getting our daughter into it. She's not into the spice yet. The dry spice. Yeah.
But she has to. I told her, if you're going to live under our roof. You got to play by these rules, girl. Or you're out. Yeah. If you want to make a move, you know, you want to live with us in Bali.
I like your style. So wait till the shit I do in Bali. That place hasn't seen good fucking Mexican. It's just average. So what's your plan for Bali? Are you just going to cut and paste what you have here or are you going to adapt something completely new? No, it'll be a different menu. Okay. We're going to have the staples from here over there because you have to because it's great. We'll do different stuff. Like I had probably...
I won't mention the place because I was just there two weeks ago and I went somewhere and I had a so-called taco. But literally, it was in a manto, okay, a Chinese manto. And it was a fried chicken. That's where I got the fried chicken idea from Ferrata. It was a fried chicken with this beautiful aioli and cilantro on top, but it was on a manto. I'm going to tell you right now, one of my favorite dishes I've ever had in my entire fucking life, we were probably 10, 12 people.
I was the only one to order that. I shit you not. I had everybody try it. They literally canceled all their fucking dishes. Every single one to the person ordered that dish. So where was this? We had 12. I won't mention it. What city? Bali. Oh, in Bali. Oh, okay.
Everybody had that same fucking dish. And I went back the next day and had it again. It was that fucking good. But it was in a Chinese mantou. So you're creating your own version of that now. Yeah. It was just so fucking good. And like he said, now he loves it.
It's almost spot on. The only difference is mine is in a tortilla. Theirs was in the mantou. I would think a mantou would kind of kill it though, right? No, no, no. It was a light mantou. It wasn't like dense. It was like a thin mantou. Yeah. Okay, okay. It wasn't dense like it is, but it was actually a mantou. But it was a light mantou. It wasn't a dense one. But it was... Holy shit, man. I...
Oh, God, I love that fucking thing. Dude, it left such an impression in me that I came back and I told my chef, I need to do this. Like, this is how much I fucking enjoyed that.
I don't know, taco, whatever it was. But it was insanely good. I feel like we do our shows sort of after lunch and before dinner. And the conversation always gets into this sort of culinary talk. We always get hung. Yeah, we always go back to the culinary thing. That's a common theme. But what's your best-selling dish at Cantina right now? Or all-time? It's the all-time best-selling dish...
I'm going to say it's a toss-up between three. It's either the quesadilla, the nachos, or the fish tacos. And I'm going to say probably out of all those three, probably the nachos, number one. That's predictable, right? Because people just share nachos. Yeah. I want to say, so, you know, over here you're in China. In China, how do you eat? You have everything in the middle and everybody picks from that, right? So it's a sharing dish. Yeah.
That's why I think nachos are pretty much the number one dish. And over here for me, when I'm trying to do new menus, it's all about the sharing dish. Because number one, if you don't placate to the locals, you're out. If you're a foreign restaurant, if you do not placate to the locals, you'll be out. If you're just trying to do to foreigners, you're an idiot. So that's a very, I think that's a very significant thing you're talking about right now. Because I think that is a conflict between
for whether they're in the F&B business or you're in any other industry, for a lot of foreigners that decide to start a business in China, there's always that inner conflict. And I know this from personal experience when I did my own business. There's always that inner conflict and you're having meetings internally to be like, okay, do we compromise or quote unquote compromise our product to placate to the locals like you're talking about? Or do we just uphold our,
our values, whether they're Western values or whatever values you hold, and just stay the course and just hope that they adapt to you. And I think that's very relatable for a lot of people opening businesses here. So in your experience... You want my honest answer? Yeah. If you want to stay to your standards and do what you want to do to your
Flavors and not placate get the fuck out get the fuck out then you know what go open your restaurant in your own home country period Like don't be a dick. You're in China. I
I don't care whatever restaurant you want to open or all that. If you don't placate to the locals, then you're an idiot. Like, get the fuck out. Well, because then you're ignoring the majority of the population. If you want to have a hard-on and say, oh, you know what? I'm Italian, and this is what I do, and this is what I want. Like, get the fuck out. I'm guaranteed. You will last six months, a year if you're lucky. Okay.
And when I say placate, it does not mean you're diminishing what you're doing, but you're just adding. You're adding to what you're doing. You're not taking away. You're giving them more options, additional options. That's the stupidity of the people that come in here and say, you know what?
I'm going to do this, but I'm going to do it this way, and that's it. You're a fucking idiot. They're being too stubborn. Just a fucking idiot. Because you're not, you know, when I say placate, I don't mean you're taking back. No, you're adding on. Okay, you're doing this, this, right? And then you've got the locos that have sometimes a different flavor, right?
You're just adding on to what you're doing. So you're not taking away. You're just adding on, dude. Like, don't be a dick and say, oh, I can't take away and I can't add. Then you know what? Get the fuck out.
Open it whatever country you're from. Open it over there. Fuck you. And that's it. You're providing like the best of both worlds. That's it. So for Western people who just want the old classics, you have that too. But then you also have all these other additional options tailored to local taste as well. That's it. But you have to. You have to. To a certain point, you have to. Because it's only right and it's only fair to both sides. Right.
You know what I mean? - Well, from that perspective, I agree. - You just gotta understand, we all live here, we're all foreigners. If you don't placate to them and to a certain degree, you're just an idiot. - But what do you say to people, and I agree with you by the way, but what do you say to people, because I've heard this a thousand times,
that say there's a large enough Western community here and Western customers here that you can just cater to them and you will have a sizable audience. Show me a restaurant or bar that is 100% foreign and I will right now bow and say you're right. I haven't seen it. Exactly. Because that will never fucking happen. I have a question. I love what you said about not being a dick because that applies to...
To you? To a lot of dicks. To me. Oh. Yeah. I apologize for that. If you live your whole life by that principle, you'll be good. You won't be a dick. Right. By definition. Right. So my question is that when people think about catering to the local taste buds, sometimes there's this connotation of compromise. And what you're saying is that we're not compromising. We're adding. We're expanding. Yeah.
Are there scenarios where when we personalize or customize to the local taste buds, we find some new innovation, which then ultimately becomes mainstream among foreigners? Yes, absolutely. Because again, you're not taking away, you're adding. Okay, so say I add the cumin beef.
And then I add something else to that cumin beef that becomes the mainstay for the locals and then the foreigners, right? But guess what? I didn't take away from my carnitas or my carne asada or my chicken salsa verde, right? Because you're always adding. You're not taking away. That's the thing that foreigners don't understand. You're not taking away from...
from what you're doing. You're just adding. It's a win-win. There's no downside to it. So if you're just adding, fuck it. Add the fucking thing. And food evolves. Food evolves. That's it. New combinations. Food is different. If we were still eating the shit we ate 200 years ago, it tastes like shit. But I will tell you one thing that food does not evolve. I will never do no meat in my fucking establishments. What is that? The Burger King thing?
Oh, Impossible? Yeah, good luck with that. Impossible Burger? Yeah, that's never going to happen. Wait, wait, you mean you'll never provide that option or you will never go total like vegan? I will never invite that. No, I won't do that option. Why? Because. Because. Because. Because. That's never going to happen. I'm a meat fucking eater. I will eat meat and I will kill meat and I will eat meat. I have vegan options and I have vegetarian options. Okay. But I will never do that Impossible Burger. I won't.
I won't transplant meat with something else. Why is that? Is that like, what drives that? Personal. I just don't, I don't, I don't, I don't, I won't do it. I don't care. That's cool. And then I just alienated half the fucking audience. I don't have a problem with it. I think our audience is, you know, fairly meat eating. I'm pretty fucking meat eating. Or vegetarian. Right? Not fake meat. I have vegetarian. Yeah, exactly. And the reason I have vegetarian, you know, I do veggie tacos. Yeah.
And I'm Armenian, so I went back to my roots because there was a lot of vegetarians coming in. Oh, you know what? And I got tired of doing it, and I understand where they were coming from. Just grilled vegetables and a fucking taco. I got sick of it. They got sick of it. I said, what's my background? I'm Armenian. So now we have the falafel taco, which is now one of our best sellers. So we give them the falafel taco, which they fucking love. Yeah.
And then now one of the new tacos is we're going to do a crispy tofu taco. And if you say that's fusion, I'll kill you. That's awesome. So it's fusion. So the two rules for two, like Rafi's two rules, don't be a dick and keep it real. Yeah. Get that fake meat shit out of here. Yeah. I won't do that. So that, that, that,
What is that? Impossible shit? Impossible meats. But does that mean we're going to cantina after this? Yeah. It feels like we need to. I'm ready. I'm so ready. Let's do a little podcast after party there. Wait, wait, wait. I've got nothing to do. You got your new kid coming along this Tuesday. This coming Tuesday. In 48 hours. Yeah, so we got a party tonight, bro. One of the wife's first things she said, don't go home drunk. And one of my answers was...
You know me. So in summary, to wrap it up, your party life is not over. Not by a long shot, Rafi. But the party life from alcohol to the party life from before is night and day. From Hollywood, yeah. I would do the party life from alcohol a billion to one to what it was from before. Because you know why? You wake up with a hangover compared to you don't wake up. So I just want to say one last thing. That's good stuff. And it's a...
It's a comment I noticed and I think maybe you, I mean, I'm sure you probably already know this, but from that period in your life or that moment in your life when you're in LA and you've kind of,
pretty much hit rock bottom in your life i guess absolutely and and you're thinking okay i gotta get the out of here and you're thinking i gotta just leave everything behind just get rid of everything all my ties and move to a new place and start clean i'm sure at that moment you could not never have even possibly imagined in your wildest dreams what you've accomplished here no and the success that you've had here absolutely correct
I will tell you, if it wasn't for the time that I got up saying, okay, if I don't change things right now, I will be dead tomorrow. Because it was literally every day. And if I don't change the scenery, and if I don't change shit right now, I'll be dead tomorrow. Period. Like, no ifs, ands, or buts. I'll be dead tomorrow. I would not be here today. Well, that's...
That's a very profound thing. And I think there's a lot of profound and significant lessons to be learned in your story. And obviously, it's super entertaining. Thank you, Rafi. Thank you for coming on the show. Great time talking to you. And we will continue this party after this podcast. And there's a lot of things that were left out.
Yeah, I'm sure. So if you ever want to come back and talk about those things, you are more than fucking welcome. This show is called, what's it called again? What drink? Honest Drink. Okay, yeah, we'll get you back. Honest Drink, yes. We'll get you back. Yeah, I'm not happy with this. We still have to finish off this bottle before we go. I will tell you, I've had the best time. Next time, I won't come in already hammered.
Hey, no, I think it's better you come in already, Hammer. That loosens you up, man. You know, you don't want to start cold, right? But I will tell you, to be honest, there's a lot of things that were not talked about. Yeah. No, no, no, no. If you ever feel willing to talk about this. Hey, guys, guys, I love you. Trying to change the subject real quick, aren't you? No, no, no, no, no.
Bye. Bye.