#15. Mirror Mirror
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Hey everybody, welcome to The Honest Drink. I'm Justin. Today's episode is a conversation between Howie, Eric, and myself. And we go back to what started this podcast in the first place, and that theme is self-improvement. So today we decide to assess each other's strengths and weaknesses, which is basically like holding a mirror up to each other with the goal of improving or calibrating our self-awareness.

Many people have this tendency just to focus on their weaknesses, and while that is a noble pursuit, it's arguably even more important to understand your strengths, to hone your strengths so that they can become your vehicle forward.

So in this episode, we get kind of personal. We share stories and talk about our social strengths and weaknesses, things like awkwardness, EQ, overanalyzing things. And while we are sharing about ourselves, we do this with the hopes that you can relate. That maybe something about the way we see ourselves or our insecurities is relatable to how you might feel.

One of the reasons why we get pretty personal sometimes in this podcast is that maybe someone listening will realize that they aren't alone in feeling the way they do. And that's pretty powerful. This was our first time trying something like this out, so we really just scratched the surface today of our ability to assess and critique each other. Next time we do this, maybe we can get even deeper. But nonetheless, it was a fun and productive conversation. So without further ado, please enjoy our honest drink. Here we go.

What can we talk about in the roast today? Well, I was thinking about one thing, right? It's like, what if we all...

I mean, it's not nothing to do with neuroses, but what if we all admitted one thing that we know about ourselves that sucks, that we want to change, we want to improve. And then we put it on camera and then, you know, and let's all make a commitment to how do we get better. And then we'll figure out how do we do it, right? How do we keep each other in check to fix ourselves in a certain way, in a certain aspect. I mean, that's one thing I was thinking. Yeah. Yeah.

- Yeah. - We can do that. - I mean, maybe it's almost like whatever you admit, we can all, since we all know each other so well, we can kind of be like, jump on that bandwagon and be like, yes, you're a dick. - Or we can do that. Or we can do a version of that where we don't admit it ourselves, but we critique each other. - Oh, somebody else. - Like me and you, we talk about like, okay, what do we think are his weaknesses? And then we go to you and you guys go to me, you know what I mean? And then we talk about it that way. - Interesting, yeah. - Ooh, that could be brutal. - Yeah. - That could be brutal. - That could be really brutal.

But it's not like a roast. We're not like trying to roast each other. We're just trying to like, you know, as friends, we're trying to be honest, right? First and foremost. Well, can we start with strengths? And then, so it's a little bit more. It's like, well, how about we're going to tiptoe into this. How about let's start with weaknesses and finish with strengths?

Would that be better? Do you want to finish with a weakness? Yeah. Like, it should be a positive thing where, like, oh, you're really good at this, you're good at this, and then it's probably will be surprising to you a little bit. Okay. And then... Well, I think to do this, we're going to have to get some drinks. It's like this, right? It's like... Like, you're so awesome. You're so fucking awesome, man.

There's this one thing. You look like dirt. But you got the smallest penis in the world. It's a shit sandwich. All right, so I think that's a great idea. Let's do that. Do we start it? Are we even ready for that? Yeah, let's start. I'm on it. Every episode. Here's the question, right? Is this smarter to get drunk and then go into the weaknesses or go into the weaknesses first? Well, see, that's the thing. We're not going to be drunk until the end of the podcast probably anyway. So in the beginning, it just loosens us up a little bit, right?

Like, if we're, like, I didn't, I honestly, I wasn't even expecting to get, like, this deep today. Like, we're like, this is like, this is a little. All right. The Glenlivet, the Master Distiller's Reserve. Oh, Glenlivet. Yeah, so I got this, I got this in the U.S. in Arizona. Cool. I'm going to try it. Let's do it. Thanks for bringing it back. Master Distiller's Reserve.

I have another Glenlivet, a different one, that was more expensive than this one that we can do next time. Y'all saw me on McAllen here. My first exposure to Glenlivet was not drinking it. I don't know if this is embarrassing or not, but it's from Swingers. You know the movie Swingers? Yeah.

There's a scene where Jon Favreau is like trying to order a drink at the bar. Oh, like that really cringey scene? No, no, no, no, no. He was at the bar and then he's like, you know, what can I get you? A single malt. And he's like, okay, which single malt? I don't know.

Glenn, any Glenn will do. John Farrow is so funny. He's so underrated in terms of his humor. Especially, I mean, did you see Swingers? Yeah. Well, the cringy scene, the other most cringy scene out of the movie was when he was leaving that voicemail. But that was such a beautifully written scene. So good. Right?

So good. It was so beautifully written because you're like, it's so real and it's so funny at the same time. I've done similar things. Not exactly like that. Yeah, that was pretty bad. But I think everyone can relate to that. That's why that scene is so famous. Because everyone kind of relates to having that fucked up moment. No more, no. You just keep digging yourself deeper and deeper and deeper. And then you're like,

Oh, shit. But we've all had those moments, though, you know? Or, like, you know, degrees of those moments. God knows I have. My whole life is based on awkward moments. It's actually, it made me think of one of the first times I was making a call to a girl when I was in middle school, high school? High school? Like, freshman year high school? I got this girl, I liked her phone number, and I remember I was downstairs at the phone, and I literally rehearsed for, like, 30 minutes,

conversations. Like, I was both people. Like, I was going back and forth. Like, you know, just making sure that I covered all my bases so there's not going to be a dull moment. And then I would call. And you forgot everything. I forgot everything. And I'm like, uh, fuck. And you tried going back to the script, but you're just drawing a blank. Yeah, I'm like, uh, what are you doing? I watch TV. Cool. Yeah.

Like I wish I could go back and call again, you know, do it all over again. When you get nervous, you just shut down. Yeah, you blank out. I had one where the dad was like, don't ever call again. Really? That was kind of difficult, yeah. My earliest one calling a girl was in elementary school. And my sister helped me do it.

Because I had this crush on her. Your sister helped you do it? Yeah, well, so I had this crush on this girl, right? And my sister knew I had a crush on this girl. And being an older sister, she was, like, also on the phone with me, but she was silent, right? Was she, like, standing next to you kind of thing? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then beforehand, she was, like, trying to tell me, like, because I was asking, like, what, you're a girl, like, what would be, like, the best way to go about this? And she was trying to, like, coach me through it. And it just completely failed. It completely failed.

It was pretty bad. Crash and burn. Here we go. Cheers. Sounds good. Awkward moments. Cheers. It's got a little bit of a coffee note to it. You guys taste that? I didn't get coffee on the first. Maybe it's just because I'm mixing... I have just a little droplets right now. I think it's the droplets. I don't get the coffee. Because I got a coffee note. All right, so are we going to get on with this? How do we do this? Who wants to go first? I say let's...

Let's start you and I tag team Justin first. Oh, woo. Okay. How about that? I think we'll learn just as much from the strengths part because I think the premise is that we have blind spots. And so it's not so much that what are my weaknesses? It's that do I even know myself that well? That's true.

It's also, you know, a lot of people are so fixated on trying to compensate or fix their weaknesses versus focusing and bettering their strengths. That's right. You know? Yeah. Because you're never not going to have weaknesses. No one's perfect. You're always going to have weaknesses.

And some weaknesses that are just so inherent in us individually that it's always going to be there to some degree. So it might be more worthwhile just to work on your strengths and making your strengths so good

that it doesn't matter what your other weaknesses are because you can excel based on your strengths. Their ultimate objective is to accomplish or be a certain type of person. So the weaknesses, to the extent that they hold you back, you work on them. But if they don't hold you back or you can figure out ways to mitigate them, then they're not important because it's not like we're

you know, taking a test and like, okay, here are your strengths, here are your weaknesses. This is the real world. And so your weaknesses might not even come into play. Precisely. Should we put any type of like rules or boundaries around this? Should we have like a safe word? Unless we start, like one of us starts breaking down and crying. Like Eric's going off on you, you're like, kitten, kitten, kitten. Let's maybe just treat this as a general profile of

calibrating a little bit on what the world thinks of us and let's start with us because like if we're i mean the outside world is going to be much crueler than we are harsher yeah like this is this should be a friendly and safe environment right and i but the the key thing is you know whatever we say we have to be honest right

This is the honest drink after all. And so everything, I think we just have to be very honest with each other in terms of what our strengths and weaknesses are. And folks, this will probably be our last podcast. We're never going to talk to each other again. That would be funny if this was the last podcast. People are like wondering, like, wait, what happened after?

Yeah, let's do it. We don't have to be that sensitive about it. Let's clarify this. So we're talking personality traits of strengths and weaknesses? We're talking about from a professional side? Look, it can be anything. Whatever we think your strengths and weaknesses are. I may look at Eric and I may think he doesn't have any weaknesses in maybe a professional side, but maybe I feel his weaknesses are on a social side, for example. Okay, general. Okay, that's cool.

So we start with strength. See, but I might not, like this is something we might have to think through. Or do you guys already have like on top, out of top of that? I mean, there are a couple of things that come to my mind about you. Okay. Wow, that was quick. That was quick. But like I don't want to just spit that out because I feel like I would like to think a little bit more.

But I guess for sake of conversation, we can just start spitting some stuff out. Like, okay, so... Get the ball rolling. Yeah, so one thing that... This has been mentioned before in previous podcasts, but one thing that I think is a strength of yours is, like, when a decision is made, that dedication or, like, a focus. I think that it's not like... His chest is getting... He's like... Yeah. Yeah, all of a sudden he's like... I'm like... Yeah. Yeah.

Stand up straight with your shoulders back. I'm like, all right, here we go, here we go. Okay, I like this, I like this. Keep going. I'm in denial about what's to come, you know? Yeah. So I think it's like focus and dedication. You've used the word retarded, but in a good way. Yeah, of course, in a good way. Like I'm retarded when it comes to my focus. Yeah, yeah. Because, okay, when I use retarded, let me explain that a little bit. It's not like retarded in the sense of...

lacking certain abilities, you know, or from a mental state or whatever, but retarded in the sense where you're so focused on one thing that almost it's like extreme where everything else is blocked out. Hyper-focused? Hyper-focused. And relentless. Yeah. So I use retarded in a playful way because it's almost like

you know, you're missing some genes in your head and you have some, some cells in your head to allow you to think about other things. You know what I mean? It's like, I mean, in the very, obviously it's a good, it's a good thing. So it doesn't come often that you get like that, but when you do, it's like you do, you know? And I think that's a, that's a strength. I mean, I think that's something that helps get you get one to do things, you know? Um,

When has that led to a successful outcome on Justin's part in leveraging these strengths? So perhaps we should also talk about strengths that have led to success and weaknesses that have prevented us from success. Can you think of an example where this type of drive and determination has led to a positive outcome? Because ultimately, that's what we're trying to do. Okay, so one of the first moments that made me think that he has this certain...

focus hyper focus ability is when we first joined a gym together and It was at the what was that place noble? Mm-hmm, right when we were doing rocks Lynn Yeah, and we would go we wake up early in the morning and

And he would never complain about waking up early in the morning. And then we'd go to the gym and, like, literally, it's like we joke around, but the minute, like, clothes are on, it's like, we don't even joke. And I'll make a joke and he'll go back to, like, working out, you know. And then it got to the point where the workouts got so intense where he's just, like,

No fatigue. And he's just going, going, going. Meanwhile, me and James were like, oh, my God, we're, like, dying. And he was, like, the heaviest out of everybody. And he was just like, boom, boom, boom. What's next? What's next? No complaining. No, like, groveling. No, like, oh, my God, this is so hard. None of that. It was just like, I'm here. I'm working out. And I'm doing it.

And to me, it was just like, it was incredible. Cause, cause there I'm on the side. I'm like, fuck, I need some water. God damn. Where's the AC? You know? And cause I'm a lot weaker than him in that sense. So that's something I, I,

that caught my attention, you know? And then all of a sudden it, it flowed into from a working environment when we were doing Roxland as well. Like he was just so, you know, 24 hours, seven days a week, nonstop thinking about Roxland, you know, like how to, how to grow it, how to, how to, how to, you know, fix things that are not working, how to, you know. So does it surprise, it sounds like you have mental strength when other people are sort of

faltering a little bit. I just did that workout today and I was just thinking about how painful it was, but it sounds like you have this mental strength, this, this determination, you can block out the noise. Um, like what, under what circumstance are you able to, to do that? Like, do you react, do you realize this? Is it something that you really like, you know, cause you're not always like that. Um, I don't think it's about blocking out the noise. I think, I think the noise is still there. Um,

I don't know. I mean, yeah, to answer your question, it's not, I guess it's not something that I think about consciously. It's almost like a given, right? Yeah. When you're doing something. When I find the motivation and passion to do something, which like how we said, doesn't come all the time, but when it does, I am, I just feel determined to do it. And it's not, it's not something like I have to force myself to feel like it's not like a burden where I have to like push and overcome.

it becomes a desire to want to be determined because I am so passionate about whatever it is. And it becomes fun to me all of a sudden. Like even with working out, like when I get in the zone or even with boxing, you know, it's like it's fun just to do it. I enjoy the process.

So it's not this like, oh, mountain I have to climb. I'm like, oh, and I'm like dreading it every second. I'm just having fun with it. And that enjoyment of doing it propels me forward. Even the grueling times, it's like it's part of the process. Yeah, it's part of the fun. It becomes part of the fun. Yeah.

So it's more about that than my maybe mental fortitude. It's just that when I do find something, it's usually something I just really enjoy doing. So it's easy to pursue it. So do you think there's anything that someone else could learn from that? Like for someone who might dread certain things, is it a state of mind or what can we learn from that? Or is it just unique to your passion?

on some particular thing? I think, I don't know. I mean, I guess for some people, they can find ways to find that, to get into that zone with something maybe they're not initially that passionate about and find passion in it later. However, for myself, I feel I've had, I'm having a hard time doing that. And I think that's one of the reasons why

Like in the previous episodes, we talked about, you know, are we going through a midlife crisis? Am I going through a midlife crisis? And I'm kind of like stalled in this juncture where I don't feel like I have a strong purpose. And that's because it's not like I don't have other things I can do. I have other job opportunities. I can go and just do other things. But I don't...

want to do something that I know I'm not 100% passionate about doing. Because I know if I do that, number one, I'm probably not going to be very good at it. Number two, I'm not going to last. You know, I'm not going to last through the hard times, because there will be hard times. And I'm not going to overcome those times if it's not something I'm just already really passionate about doing. So that's the thing for me right now. I don't want to settle

And I want to, I need to exercise at least, you know, some patience in order to find or to realize where I can devote all my focus in and just do that to the best of my ability. Anything that pops in your mind for strengths?

How? Wow. Wow. Okay. That says a lot. That says a lot. Your silence says a lot. He's like, Justin, you're a nice person. He's like, I like your hat that you're wearing. That's a strength. That's a strength. You pick nice hats. That's a strength. Okay, what about weaknesses? I don't think we're there yet. We're not there yet. We're not there yet. We can't exhaust all your strengths. I mean, they'll take up the rest of the episode. Yeah, we've got to have some positioning.

Let's move on to weaknesses. Or should we just do a round of strengths first and then a round of weaknesses? Like, should we go to you guys now with strengths? I have some strengths for you. Yeah, I think we're still on strengths. I mean, it's okay. I think we can kind of be thoughtful. There's some pauses in here and there, right? Because it's not just for the purposes of the show. We also want to just have this conversation and sometimes know just how to think about things.

I think that some of the things, so I'll frame it this way, some of the things that I admire about you, you spend time with people that you admire, or you have long-term friendships with people that in some ways you admire, because over time, what keeps you interested in spending time with that person? Well, is that why we don't spend that much time together? No.

But, you know, we keep coming back, right? Uh-huh. So one of the things I admire is that you're talented. I feel like you're talented in things that require creativity and require a little bit of dedication and passion. Music is one of them. So, you know, like in the past, we've played music together. And so I admire the fact that you...

had your own band and you played shows and you wrote songs and I thought that was really, you know, that's something that you have to kind of have a certain level of dedication for. I admire your talent for culinary stuff because you're very precise when you get into something. You're quite precise about

to how to distinguish things within a certain cuisine. There's a lot of techniques inside. You have to be able to taste certain things. So I think those are things that I think are just being able to do something that's creative that requires skill and a little bit of artistry together. I think that piece and I think another one would be

Just your ability to connect with people and have a very, like you're confident, you connect with people, and you have a very just casual conversation, and you're able to build that connection in a very non-awkward way. Am I, though? Yeah. And I knew he was going to say something like that because in his mind, he's the most awkward, uncomfortable person. But he's actually, like for me, let me put it this way. I'm not being super eloquent here, but let's say that

I need to go meet some friends or I need to meet some new people. You would have in your mind a buddy that you could take with you that you felt like this person could be someone

Like that could represent you. Yeah, represent you. Like the friends, the people you hang around. Not going to embarrass you and then help you keep the conversation and like someone interesting. Like you would be definitely one of them. I would take you anywhere. I'd just be, oh yeah, my buddy Justin. Like I'd feel comfortable. And I think there's some people where like you might hang out with them alone, but you might not bring them out.

Why are you looking at me? He looked at me immediately. He's like, I would not bring him out. He just stares at me. Justin has a certain level of professionalism, too. He knows what to say. And maybe that's what it is. Maybe it's that you've cultivated this capability over time a little bit, too, so that for you, it's based on a lot of practice as well. I don't know. I think it's about, for social instances and examples that you brought up, I think it's about...

Some people are just better at taking the temperature of the room better than others. It's just EQ. I mean, I think Justin has high EQ. Why is that? Yeah, I agree. Yeah, Justin has high EQ. I think that's a definite given. So was any of that surprising what I said? It's consistent what I've said before, but was any of it surprising in terms of your own perception of yourself?

I wouldn't say surprising. I don't think surprising would be the word. For what you brought up, because the only real strength that you brought up was, you know, like, I'm a social. Because before that, you were just talking about, like, I have, like, good culinary skills. I don't know if that's, like, really, like, a character strength. Or, like, you had a band. Yeah.

But in terms of, like, I guess being good in social situations and having a haikyuu, that doesn't surprise me, but I feel like you guys only see a glimpse of me, right? Like, you guys, we only see each other when we're around and maybe, you know, in social situations, and it's more or less easy. It's very low stakes. But I think there have been plenty of situations that you guys were not there for, in my mind, that...

you know, I totally fucked up, right? Like, so I feel like I get misunderstood a lot. I feel like I come off awkward a lot of times. A lot of times I don't, but a lot of times I do as well. I laugh. I mean, I'm laughing inside right now because I've seen it before where that...

I feel like I could relate sometimes, you know, with you. Like, you know, you have to kind of turn on a switch, right, when you're in a social situation. And I can tell, like, sometimes you're just kind of, like, forcing yourself to say something because you feel like, I should say something right now. Or I should do something like this right now. But I've witnessed moments without being, like, specific where you were in the moment and then...

you'll say or do something and there's no reaction and you're like, okay, whatever, I mean, and it's just like reactive. Because I'm so used to it. Like, I expect awkward moments. But here's the thing. I'm like, okay, well, because I know you so well, I know in your mind, you're like, oh,

Like, you're just, like, killing yourself inside. Like, I should not have done that. That was horrible. Right? I know that's what you're saying inside. I used to. But in the grand scheme of things, and I'm watching from a third-party perspective, you were fine. It's fine. It's, like, it's totally fine. You know what I mean? So I know what you're saying. Like, oh, you don't know. I've bombed. Like, no, I know when you think you've bombed. But in comparison, for comparison's sake with other people, it's not bombing. It's not.

Well, like in my own mind's eye now, it's happened so frequently, I'm so used to it now, that when I feel like I've created an awkward situation, I just say to myself, like, I'm not even like, oh, awkward. I'm not even like that. I'm just like, oh, of course. Okay. Here we go again. Okay. Let's just roll with the punches here. Like, I just like, I just take it for granted now, you know? And I'm just like, okay, of course. Of course, it's going to be an awkward situation. Like, why wouldn't there be?

And it's just like part of my life. When you say misunderstood, can you give an example? I feel like I think I first noticed this and it's an accumulation of instances and reflection throughout my life.

going back since I was a kid, right? So when I was a kid, me and my sister, we used to play this game together. And we would, we were like trying to be actors. So we would like each act out scenes to each other. Or we would shout at each other like, oh, like we would shout at each other in emotion. And we would have to express that emotion out of our face. So we were doing like acting exercises, right? And I quickly realized from her that,

that I'm very bad at communicating emotion physically through my body language and my face when I want to. Maybe when I'm not thinking about it, it comes out, but when I try to,

It's not there. Or I'm communicating the wrong message and emotion. I realize that very quickly. So if she says, like, oh, like, look frustrated, I won't look frustrated. Like, in my mind, I look really frustrated, right? I feel like I'm making this face. I'm like, hmm, I'm, like, looking really frustrated. But it's not coming off like that at all. So I realize this through years and years and years of, like, just different instances and different interactions with different people.

So I feel like that's part, that reflects a little bit how I get misunderstood because sometimes I feel like when I say something, maybe the way I say it, the tone in which I say it, the way I phrase it, people will read it completely wrong.

like the way I meant it, right? And then people will take it differently. So I feel like from that aspect, I'm really misunderstood. And has that worked out in a bad way for you where they misunderstood it in a negative context? It's always usually in a negative context. Like, see, you never... Yeah, well, no, that wasn't a misunderstanding. That was the clearest I've ever been. No, but like for an instance, right? Like when I first...

went to college, right? So I went to, I eventually transferred to USC in Los Angeles. And before that, I had never spent any time out in California before. I was always an East Coast kid.

Grew up in New Jersey, then in New York. Was always out in the East Coast. I always wanted to stay in the East Coast. So my entire social upbringing and group of friends were very New Jersey, right? And in New Jersey, you have to have a thick skin to grow up in the kind of community of friends that I grew up in. So because everyone is about busting your balls,

You know, like if they're friends with you, they're going to bust your balls, right? Everything's about ball busting, right? And that's what you do as boys when you're together, right? So I thought everyone was like that. I thought that was just a given amongst guys, young guys and young kids when you're meeting people, you're friendly, right? So when I first moved out to California, I was very eager to meet new friends because I didn't know anyone there. How old were you? This was college.

So when I moved out, so I was already 20 something, right? 20, 21. Because I transferred there. And then, so I was very eager to meet new friends. And so I brought that kind of New Jersey ball busting mentality, right? So if I just met you at a party and, you know, we're hitting it off, you know, if I felt a certain level of comfort with you,

I would start busting your balls, like in a friendly way. I'd start busting your balls. And back in New Jersey, that's a sign of affection amongst kids, guys, you know? Like that you felt close enough where I can bust your balls, right? Like we do with each other. But it's just a lot more intense, I guess, the way we did in New Jersey. You go up and just slap them in the face like, fuck you, motherfucker. No, no, no. I love you. It was very normal shit. So in New Jersey, I was in the group, in my large group of friends, I was always known...

had the character of like, I was like the more docile guy. I was more quiet out of the other guys. Like, in retrospect, I wasn't even that quiet, but out of my other friends, I was the quiet one. I was the docile, right? I was the more passive guy, right? Friendly, but passive. Gets along with everyone.

But then I quickly realized in my first year at USC, I started hearing through the grapevine that I had this reputation as being like the alpha, the super aggressive, like the hyper aggressive guy, you know, the really like the rude and rough around the edges kind of like alpha kid, right? And I'm like, I'm mind blown, right? Because that was not how I saw myself at all.

And I quickly realized that people out in L.A., because a lot of those people were actual L.A. natives, right, that I was hanging around with. The culture is just different, I realized. They're more sensitive over there in the West Coast. There is not the same degree, there is, but not to the same degree intensity of like that kind of ball busting amongst your friends kind of mentality, at least not with the groups I hung around with.

So they were a lot more sensitive. So when I brought that kind of East Coast mentality, they were all taken aback by it. And I hadn't noticed that before. And I had no idea that's how it was coming off. In my mind, I was coming off as like super friendly, super sociable, trying to make friends, you know, like ingratiating everybody.

But from their perspective, they were like, oh, this guy's just being rude. He's just, you know, he's just, yeah, he's just insulting everybody. You know, he's like, he's like just harsh and like, you know, he just wants to be like the alpha in the pack. That's that kind of guy. So that was a big wake up call for me.

And I didn't realize that. So then after that, I had to really kind of tone it down. And I had to really make a conscious effort to kind of watch myself in terms of how I interacted with them. Because I couldn't interact with them the same way as I would with people back in the East Coast. What was some of the outcome initially? Would you not get invited to stuff? Or other than the feedback that you got, did it really result in distance between you and people that you wanted to meet?

No, I don't feel like I got not invited to things because I was... I still attended all the social gatherings and saw them every day. I just think it created a level of passive aggressiveness from them because I feel like none of them wanted to confront me head on because none of them were that bold like that. But I think they talked amongst themselves and...

Meanwhile, they were like on the surface very friendly with me. I felt like when they had a chance to like stick me with something or to get me with something I was always the easy target for them because they felt like I was almost trying to... - They had pent up, pent up. - Yeah, so like anything like that would have like any opportunity that would bring attack on myself, right? Even in a playful way, they would jump on it. So it became kind of this like, I felt like they were being passive aggressive against me, which is totally fine.

But just don't do it in a resentful way. Like, you know, bust my balls back. You know what I mean? That's fine. I expect that. I'm just picturing you, like, rolling up, like, you know, there's a bunch of friends at, like, a pizza joint, and you roll up. Like, hey, guys, hey, what is that? You're biking, you're closing the Salvation Army? Hey, what's that? Is that your face or your neck throw up? He was, like, walking around. I was just like, yeah, like...

And then they're all like, who's this asshole? You sit down, give me a slice. Hey, Tony! This Jersey kid coming over. Kids are judgmental. Kids are really judgmental. Because if there's like an outlier, then it just seems different. Whereas maybe when you work for a corporation, you've had more time to learn how to

modulate yourself a little bit. Well, yeah, but I also, I think, I honestly, I really believe that ethnicity had a little bit to do with it in terms of culture, right? So when I went out to L.A., I went, you know, everyone I hung around with were Asian.

Right? Because there's so many Asian people in LA. Right? So all my circle of friends all of a sudden became like all Asian guys. So it was like Japanese, Koreans, Vietnamese, Chinese, right? All Asian people. And I think amongst them, they were just a little more passive by nature. I think maybe typically not, you have your outliers, you have your exceptions.

But for me, as an Asian kid growing up in the East where I grew up, I didn't have a Chinese community really to grow up with. So I wasn't really socialized in a Chinese community. All my friends were white, black, or Italian, like Italian white, like real Jersey, right? Parents had mob connections, that kind of shit. So I was socialized in that kind of group.

So all of a sudden now I go to LA, I'm ingratiating myself with the Asian community over there. And they won't expect anything. They see me as an Asian kid, so they think I'm just one of them. But all of a sudden, I might as well, I'm an Asian face, but I might as well be like an Italian. You know what I mean? Like, I don't know. And then...

So I, like a New Jersey Italian, you know what I mean? So I go over there and I'm just like, and I'm just socializing with them. And I think that shocked them in many ways to see me like, just kind of be like, so I don't know if confidence is the word, but like confident and like social and like forward and very direct and frank. Right. Cause growing up in New Jersey. Well, that's the East coast. Yeah. We don't, we don't talk in circles. Right. Like we're very direct. Everyone's very direct. Right. Yeah.

It's like, is this like, if we like it, we like it. If we don't, we'll tell you we don't. You know what I mean? So I think they were a little bit taken aback by,

by that kind of personality in me being in an Asian face. You were like they perceived you as being quite aggressive. Quite aggressive. So I don't know like if I had gone to LA and let's say I made friends with a bunch of white kids or a bunch of black kids or whatever right anyone but Asian maybe it would have turned out a little differently maybe

maybe they would have seen me differently or maybe they still would have seen me the same. Maybe, I don't know if it's East Coast, West Coast thing or if it's more of like a racial thing. Yeah, yeah.

a cultural thing you know it could just be the group it could be a combination of both but it was a big group but it wasn't I'm not talking about this one select group I'm talking about I'm talking about like generally like almost every single Asian community I came across while I was there you know but I think that's it could be an Asian thing because just like me I don't know how you were in Texas but like I grew up in Jersey and New York you know and same thing I didn't grow up around you know Chinese people I had some Asian friends Filipinos but like

Yeah, but not Chinese, Korean, Japanese, nothing like that. And even in college, I was never around that either. But when I was around it by chance, I'd always be like, you're so different than me. Like night and day, you know, in terms of

Even aggressiveness. Like, I'm so not aggressive. But, you know, but the whole outgoing, like, you know, just saying whatever's on your mind and just not giving a fuck, you know. It comes off. People perceive it as a form of aggression. Yeah. Right? When back in the East Coast, that's not being aggressive at all. It's threatening. It's threatening. Because I can, like, I can kind of...

you know, maybe imagine like what that would be like. Cause you're just, everybody's like laid back maybe, or maybe a little bit more, um, reserved. And then, you know, a guy comes in and he's a little bit like boisterous, a little bit loud, a little bit more aggressive, a little bit more intense. And it maybe throws that balance off a little bit. And you're just like, I just want to chill. And like, this guy's like all really intense. I can see that. Right. And when you're younger, you're just not able to calibrate your emotions. There's less to talk about, um,

as well because you have been through less experiences. And so I don't think your personality, like you're probably a little bit more less, less sort of smoothed out at age 20. You are who you are sort of like you don't know what's going on and you don't know how to handle certain situations or modulate yourself. Like now, like we're adults, you meet with someone, then you kind of know how to sort of dial up, dial down the intensity. But maybe you were just like one level of intensity.

Well, yeah. Like, you didn't... Like, I didn't have the ability to take the temperature of that particular room because I had never been in that room before. Right. You know? Yeah. So he's coming in, like, hot. And, like, the room is, like, 70 degrees. Yeah. And he's, like, motherfucking hot, right? They're like, damn, dog. Yeah. So, but it all sorted itself out, it sounds like, right? And then you kind of chilled out. Oh, yeah. Well, I made great friends there, of course. I mean...

You know, everything was, it wasn't that bad, but it was definitely underlying tone. And they had eventually, later on when they got to know me, you know, we became the best of friends with the group. But they had to take a lot of time to understand that. So for a period of time, like the first two years I was there, I think I was just largely being misunderstood. And then after that, like with those same people, they became some of my best friends. Yeah. Right? So...

So it was a learning journey for them as well. Yeah, on both sides. Because, like, I definitely, when I think back to some of my friends, there's some people, like, you're, like, the first day you met them and you're, like, yeah. But there's some people, like, man, the first time I met this guy, I thought he was kind of a dick. Yeah. Because you form these perceptions just based on that snapshot. And then over time, you just get, you learn about that person. Yeah. Well, just like with Howie, like, we didn't like each other when we first met each other.

We did not. Yeah. Right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I thought he was a little cocky bastard. I thought you were... I thought Howie was kind of a cocky bastard. Yeah, well, I thought he was definitely... But most people think he was a cocky bastard. But you thought I was a cocky bastard? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, cocky and, like, didn't give a fuck. Like, because I was trying to be friendly with you, and you'd be like, yeah, yeah, yeah, and then just go back to your drinking and shit like that. I'd be like, pshh.

Really? Was I drunk though? Probably. See, I think in Shanghai, I'm a lot misunderstood like that too. I don't know if people think I'm cocky or what, but in my mind, I feel like I'm the least cocky guy. That's what cocky guys think though. Really? But in my mind's eye, I'm really insecure about a lot of things. But you're very different now as opposed to when I met you in 2009. Yeah.

We all were. Because back then, like, for now, for example, if I'm watching you meet new people in a group setting, yes, you're very friendly. You're very welcoming. You're very, you know. That's the side. You're mature, you know. But back then, like, you didn't give a fuck. You were too busy trying to get your own shit going, you know. But that's normal, I guess, in that circumstance. I don't remember that, but, you know.

So, okay, let's go. Let's kind of, I think that was useful and that was, it was fascinating about the misunderstood and going into new social surroundings and then, you know, younger people, people in college being a little bit more judgmental and then just like how stark the differences are at that age. And then now we've been overseas and we're a little bit able, more able to take the temperature. I like the way you said that. Weaknesses. So...

Well, let me just add on to one thing, though, because I think what we talked about just now was like it really highlights the importance for everyone to interact and engage with different social groups. 100%. You know, because it's very easy to kind of live like if we talk about comfort zones, right? Like before, like it's really easy to live our own comfort zones, to live in our own bubble of friends who are like minded and you already know. And it's just like that.

But it's really important to go out of that bubble and engage with groups that

you wouldn't have engaged with before. Different cultures, different groups of people, different mindsets, right? That way, when you don't run into that same problem like I did when I first moved out to LA, where you're in a room where you've never been in before and you have no idea how to take the temperature of that room, right? The more you get to experience, the more groups you interact with, the more of that experience and accumulation you have,

And wisdom you have to be like, okay, I can now adapt to many different social environments and situations. And you can be less socially awkward. Okay. Is that weaknesses now? 100% agree. Yeah, so let's talk about weaknesses. Well, I started on the strengths. You have a weakness maybe you want to start off with? Or should we go around with strengths and then come back to weaknesses? Okay. Because then I feel like we're on me for like too long. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We can do that. I'm ready for some...

Sure. Some recognition here. I mean, I can't come up with any strengths for Eric. I cannot. So, okay, let's tag team Eric right now. Okay, I've got to think about this for a little bit. I think we're going to have to think a couple of hours because think of a positive strength. Okay, so one thing. So here's one thing that I honestly, this is how I feel. And I don't know if it's a strength or if it's just because...

you have more experience and are just wiser because of your experience. Because of, you know, you're older, right? No, I'm being serious. Because I don't know. I don't know if it's just coming with age or if it's, you know, that's just, you know, the strength of yours. But you're extremely...

analytical and possess a lot of wisdom when it comes to a lot, when you analyze a lot of things. You're able to speak a lot of, on a lot of things with a really wise... Like diverse subject matter. Well, he is diverse in subject matter. But he's able to go a lot deeper into each subject matter and bring a perspective that when you talk to him, you're like,

oh, like you realize kind of like he's coming at it with a different level of depth than you are and then with other people. And he's coming, and I think if anything, this podcast and a lot of the previous episodes, because I've been editing the episodes, so I go around and I'm re-watching and particularly like, you know, when you speak, you realize, oh, like he's coming at it from, you realize he's coming at it from a more experienced and with more wisdom perspective.

than just typical banter or or someone trying to sound smart, right? Like I feel like a lot of times when I say something or when I rewatch it, it's very surface. But then when I engage with him in these podcasts and he's talking about it, he's all of a sudden he's bringing a whole new spin onto it and he's like look you gotta look at it from both sides and he's very knowledgeable about like the big picture of things. So

That, to me, is one of his strengths, but I don't know if that's just something that is just because you've lived longer and you're wiser because of it. Not that much longer. I think it's a combination because Eric is, I mean, to be very direct and blunt, I mean, he's quite an intelligent individual. Very intelligent. Very analytical. Yeah, and with that, in combination of his interest in analyzing different subject matters,

And like you said, the depths that he goes into. Just like I said with your retarded focus, maybe it's almost like a retardation of OCD. He needs to dig, dig, dig, dig and analyze. So I think it's a combination of all these elements that make him like that. It's not about him being older or him being wiser. It's just a combination. Well, not to jump ahead here.

But I think the very strength that he has is also the source of your weakness. You overanalyze, right? Where it begins to bother you and it will, like, I think you overanalyze to a point where it inhibits you from just like, you know, just like, hey, just be chill, just relax, just let it go. And like, I think it eats at you inside. I can't know for sure, I'm not you, but from the outside looking in,

It seems that way. You know? That the strength is also the source of your weakness. In a way. I think what... I suppose I have to comment on some of this. No, I mean, it's... Does that surprise you? No, no, no. I think number one is I appreciate that you guys... I appreciate having friends that...

know me, that have spent time with me and, you know, have had an opportunity to think about our interactions outside of me. Because when you're you and you're in your interaction, you're missing a lot of things. I mean, that's obvious. And so it's nice to have friends that have spent enough time with you who can offer their perspective. And what you said, I think all of everything you said was fascinating to me. And I also appreciate the just the positive tone of it. But it's fascinating because

it's all of that stuff. Everything you guys said, I think is part of it. Like, well, growing up, I was like, I was always wanting to dig deep into stuff and really understand why. Like for me, the most powerful question is why? Like I can't accept stuff at the surface level. I just can't accept it. And that is also a weakness. Cause then I get really worked up about stuff as well. And you know, those are things that you have to work on because maybe seven things aren't that important. So then you have to zoom out. Like, and helps me with a lot of that. It's like, she's like, Hey, like, you know, it's not that important. Um,

But I have that relentless sort of like, I want to know what the truth is. So I think you guys talk about like being analytical, really wanting to know the truth. Yes, absolutely. Right. I want to know the truth, whether it's being very analytical or observing or whatever. And then I do like to take a lot of different areas and connect the dots. And I do that in my work. So part of it is at work. Part of it is the, you know, maybe just being on the on the earth a certain amount of time. But like, I think that's something that I've always thought about.

was fascinating was connecting the dots because you take a wide variety of things you go deep enough and then you can find like what the real nugget in that is so then for me you know the opportunity is that just to understand like how do you apply this because every every like strength is also a weakness because for it to be that powerful it could be overused or it could be used in the wrong context so you almost want to get to a point where your strength is so strong that it inhibits you in some way and then you can then

you know, then you can kind of manage it, I suppose. So yeah, it makes a lot of sense. I mean, it's nice, right? Because then it gives you, because I think we don't always know what our strengths are. And then we constantly beat ourselves up. And then it's like when other people

It's sort of like if you had a strength and I'm like, I wish I had your strength. But you don't even, you take it for granted. You don't even think about it. Well, I don't even think of it as a strength. Right. Maybe. Yeah. And the thing is like, that's fucked up. You might as well give that strength to me then if you don't even value it. You'll have use for it actually. Exactly. Right. Exactly. So, and then the thing is like we focus so much on our weaknesses and we forget about our strengths that we go in and the situation, it's not about strengths and weaknesses. It's about going into a situation and then being able to be effective and successful.

So you already had all the tools. You just went in there and you're like, I'm going to lose this because I don't have any tools. That's fucked up, right? That's really fucked up. Yeah. So I think you guys were spot on. I mean, I appreciate that. I'm going to add something else because what you said is actually probably the most obvious of his strengths because I think it's the most characteristic of him, right? Yeah.

I also, I was just thinking like, because, you know, I think everybody has, I don't care who you are, they all have a lot of strengths and weaknesses, right? It's just depending on what sticks out more and what doesn't. So another thing that I feel like sticks out a little bit more is actually your thoughtfulness, you know? And I think it actually does go along with that strength of analyzation because that thoughtfulness comes out of

analyzing different situations and times of the day and what other people are going through and whatever and knowing

what to ask or what to do. - He's very sensitive to those things in terms of like he can whiff out like, oh, is this, if I do this or if he reacts this way, like how is that gonna affect this? Like he's, yeah, I guess that's very analytical in a way. But it's also having that sensitivity to feel that. - But it's a motive. It's thoughtful. I feel like it is a thoughtfulness. - It is very thoughtful. - That not every friend has. And I feel like that's one thing that when I think of my friends,

You know, one of the things of you is I'll know, I always know to count on you to be thoughtful, to like, if I needed to open up and talk deep about something, I know that you will be able to listen and ask the right questions and explore with me and stuff like that. Because, you know, not every friend is suitable to do that with. And that's one of, I think, one of your strengths.

And because it's not even just about me for example me reaching out I mean you also have in the past where you would directly reach out I feel like something's up like what's going on here and stuff like that You know it's like like the weaknesses part is gonna be so brutal because we're being so like we're like We're just sucking each other's dicks right now Like you're like you're a god No but you know you know what I think I think you're absolutely right and

I think that's even more obvious than what I said about him being, even though it all ties together, but it's that thoughtfulness. And just now, as you were saying that, I realized, I think it all comes from, because like you said, not all your friends are like that and not everyone's like that. I'm probably not like that.

I think it comes from he doesn't take anyone for granted and he doesn't take his own friends, no matter how close they are with him, he doesn't take them for granted. Like we take each other for granted sometimes, right? Where we can just like, you know, like piss off, like whatever, but like we just take it for granted, right? We'll be there. I don't think, I think his mindset, and I don't know if it has anything to do with like your upbringing and maybe some trauma you went through earlier in your life. I don't know.

But you definitely don't take anyone for granted. And it's that mentality that makes him work harder, I feel, to be more sensitive, to be more thoughtful with people that he cares about. Because maybe somewhere in the back of my mind, he's afraid of losing them. Whatever it is, it motivates him to now to make everything more important and urgent to be like,

I need to have this interaction go well with you. Or I need to be thoughtful of you. I need to help you. You know what I mean? And I need to be there for you, right? So I think it's that mentality of the fact that he just doesn't take any of his friends for granted. And that's something we all do. Like, I'm not saying not taking. We all take people for granted, right, in our lives. But he doesn't. Yeah.

Is that a shock? No, no, no. Because now I'm deep analyzing everything and like everything just makes it. So I would say I have a couple of, you know how it is. I always have a couple of points. I say number one is that you guys are, well, first of all, I appreciate that compliment. And I think second is that you guys are both, um,

especially Howie, you're very, very sensitive and you're very, very thoughtful. Like both of you are, the fact that you can recognize the behavior probably reflects your thoughtfulness. Like, I mean, I think we all grew up in households where our parents are like, you know, your manners and like thank people and never impose on people. Like that's probably part of it. And that's probably what attracts us in a way, not coming from the same state or whatever it is, but how do we all come together with all these people in Shanghai and all,

All of us are fairly gregarious and whatever. So I think you guys have probably that same skill. And then if I were to just say like at a very high level without going too deep is that number one is that when I was younger, I was probably less sensitive to this kind of stuff just because I was like the older child. My brother was much younger and I was just kind of abrasive to people. I think I was just kind of a dick because I was just in my own world. And I think,

like, you know, I had friends and this and that, but I think there was a part, a point in my life where, you know, people are growing up and they're getting to adult status and maybe I didn't sort of catch that point and I didn't, wasn't able to take the temperature of the room. And then the other thing is I met some people, you know, in the last five or 10 years where, especially, you know, just,

in a professional environment where these people were truly empathetic and compassionate, just like awesome people. I mean, I worked for a couple of guys that were just incredible. These guys are just, you would want to be like them on your tombstone. They were smart, intelligent, compassionate, great leaders. And then from that, I learned a lot and I started studying a lot of this stuff and then my role involves actually helping people. So I enjoy and I think part of why

What I want to do is help people when they need it, to help them be the best version of themselves. - But I also see that you have been working on this. - Yeah, for sure. - I can see it. - Well, that's part of his analytical side. - Yeah, but I'm not great at it. - That's the strength of being analytical. - I'm not great at it, but I can recommend five books. - Just like you do with your organizational charts, even for something as simple as what are the best burgers in town, you have a whole chart, alphabetical,

listed, just for that, right? - I think just because of that, we're gonna have to have a burger after this. - Just for that kind of bullshit, right? Think about how analytical he gets when it's about himself. So I'm sure internally, you break down yourself and you're super analytical about it and you dissect every little thing

and you try to focus on where you need to improve and you work on those things. So that's a strength. - Well, I think if we all have really, maybe Thor has his whatever his thing, right? What is it called? - Mjolnir? - The hammer. - The hammer, so Thor has it, sorry.

So Thor has his hammer. That was the nerd. You ever say, that was the nerd. Like, he was like, he has that thing, I'm like, hammer, he's like, million mirror, like whatever the name. Like that's the most nerd answer you can give. For me, it's like, I'm so not attuned with like, I thought we were watching Avengers yesterday, right? But anyways.

So we all have our hammer and the hammer is really, really powerful. But you know how in the superhero movies, like somehow you lose, like, you know how like Thor, I think in one of the movies, like he couldn't even use the hammer or whatever, right? Like he wasn't able to use it or he lost confidence. It got shattered. Right? So we all have our hammer and...

And then knowing how to use your hammer is more important than the size of the hammer or even, you know what I'm saying? All you have to do is find your hammer and then like use it in the right way. And then like the thoughtfulness, like a lot of that comes from,

There was, you know, a part of my life where I didn't see these things because these were not things in my family. My family was just kind of like, they just did whatever. Like, they were very nice people, but they weren't like businessmen. They didn't know how to take the temperature of the room. They showed the world who they are based on their acts. So they're just good, honest, genuine people. But they weren't good at, you know, making the room happy or whatever it is, right? And then you start learning about these things. You meet people. You meet, you know, in my line of work, it's important to...

to help people value themselves, right? And so then you see like, wow, that's really powerful and it's awesome and you can make people feel really great about themselves and they become better because your boss was the one that helped you feel great about yourself. And so then you get inspired by that and you start studying it and then you realize, wow, this is a skill. And so I'm not by any means, I think,

that developed at it. But I have, like I said, I could recommend two or three books. But I think you guys are actually naturally, fairly naturally good. But then the thing is, when you're naturally good at something, you might just always stay at that level. Whereas when you actually suck ass at something...

and then you study it, those actually sometimes, they become the best in the world, which is fascinating. - Oh, for sure. - 'Cause you think, oh, I need to be talented at it. Like maybe for basketball you do. - Well, I think that's anything, for example, sports, I think you were gonna dive into, is you can be naturally talented in something,

But talent will only take you so far. It's like-- - Well look at Kawhi Leonard now, right? So he was always talented at defense, but he was never known as an offensive weapon in the beginning of his career. And then now he worked at it because he knew that was a weakness and now he's one of the best. - That's right. - Right? - So good. - But going back to what you're saying, I think it goes back to your strength of not taking anything for granted and your ability to be really honest with yourself.

And people take that really for granted. Like people just gloss over that. But I think most people, and I know I'm guilty of it to some degree, but I think most people are not willing to be 100% honest about

with themselves. When they look in the mirror, they are not willing because it hurts too much. Sometimes the pain is too much or they're in too much denial to really be 100% honest with their own actual weaknesses. They won't say they won't have any weaknesses, but they'll list a bunch of weaknesses that are easy for them to list, that are easy for them to omit.

But that's not the meat of it. The meat of it are a bunch of other hidden weaknesses that are probably much more significant that they are not willing to face themselves.

So they hide behind a mask of like, oh, I can list all these weaknesses I have, but they're not really getting to the meat of it because that part hurts too much or they're not willing to be 100% honest with themselves. And I think that's most people walking around. Your ability is you're able to reflect inward and be 110% honest with yourself in terms of like, look,

These are my actual, I suck at this. I suck. And you almost like beat yourself, like you really beat yourself up over it. Right. And you're just like, but, but then through that, through that crucible of like self-analyzation, you come out a stronger and better person. Whereas most people will only shove it. Or they gloss over it. Yeah. They gloss over it. They'll, they'll, they'll bury it deep and, and never, and never address it. Right. And, and,

That's something I know personally. I had to come to grips with myself in the last couple few years where I would always be glossing over it. I'd be like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, okay. But I wouldn't want to face it head on indirectly until maybe a few years ago. But I think that's a strength. I think most people walk around not having that ability. What you said was, I think, I mean, just generally speaking was...

very very well said like I thought that was awesome and You know something I read recently was your your willingness to confront your own, you know your own Yourself, right? Like I mean your biggest enemy like yourself is yourself exactly and your willingness to do that and be very precise about that is something that not all people have the courage to do and if you're not able to articulate if you're not able to be extremely precise and

about what it is that you're looking at, then you can just gloss over it and you don't have to deal with it because you just kind of sweep it under the rug. But when you're extremely articulate and say, this is what's wrong with me, then it forces you to face it. And I think the analogy... God, I can't remember who it was recently that I was listening to on a podcast. It was sort of like, would you rather be the greatest lover in the world but then everyone thinks you're the worst lover in the world? Or would you rather be...

Like a shit lover. But thinks you're great. That's a great question. That's a great philosophical question. And that's what people, it's almost related to what you were saying. And to be honest, I think the majority of people walking around today would rather be the latter. Would rather have the reputation and image versus the actual reality.

I think most people are like that. Which is not what I want to do. Which is terrible. I just want to look myself in the mirror. But even then, I don't think we all... And that's why I think we need to actually help each other with our weaknesses. Because you might not even have the awareness to be able to confront yourself. Yeah.

Or it's not yet. One is awareness to even confront yourself. And for those who do have the awareness, maybe there's even less of a percentage of those that are willing to take that next step to actually confront yourself. Because no one, no one wants to admit to themselves there that they're not as cool or awesome as they think they are. You know what I mean? That hurts too much. Yeah.

It completely almost destroys a lot of people's self-image of themselves. So they don't want to tear that down because it's almost like tearing, it feels like it's tearing your whole house down. But God knows there are a bunch of people walking around today that I've interacted with that fucking need that. Yeah. I just thought of something that maybe we can implement in this. So when we get to the point of calling each other's weaknesses out,

Maybe before we do that, somewhere either on the phone or wherever, we write down what we think our own weakness is first. Right? And then we don't reveal it until after we've shared, you know, what we thought. You know, and then see how accurate our own perception is. We should have done that in the positives as well. You know? I think that would be interesting. Yeah, that's a good one.

So we still have to cover his strength, right? So I'm wondering. That'll be quick. No, no, no. It's not allowed to cover that. I'm wondering because we know that one of Justin's weaknesses is timekeeping. So I'm wondering since we're kind of like after we talk about the strengths, we have a really good episode. I think maybe we need a little bit of time to think about where we can improve.

But, you know. So the strengths can be this episode and the weaknesses can be the next episode? Sure. We can do that. That's fine with me. Cool. That was easy. I just have to find a reason every episode to like... So this episode was more of a dick-sucking fest. The next episode is going to not be. It's a shit show. I need time to go home and do this.

Get all that jizz out of your mouth, man. I literally was like... But be prepared because the next episode is going to be our last. We'll never have it because we're never willing to confront it. It's like, hey, I'm busy. I'm busy. We're always going to be putting it off like, oh, I'm busy this weekend. I'm busy this weekend. Cheers. It was good that we started with this drink. So let's turn the tables. Can we turn the tables on this guy? Yeah.

Alright, on to him. On to this guy. This guy. Dude, it looks like you're about to like, pop a vein trying to think about what to say. No, no, no, because similar to the issue I had with him where I didn't know whether or not to classify this as a strength. Because I think strength, in my mind, strength is different from talent.

Talent, I think, is something you're born with and it comes more or less natural to you. That's talent, right? Strength is something you have to overcome something to get to, I think, or build. It's a character or a character trait that you build through experience and through time, right? So a lot of...

A lot of the things that I'm off the top of my head that I'm more initially always admired about you was always more or less talent based, right? And obviously I didn't know you when you were a kid so maybe you weren't born with these talents and these are things you've built through time, right? I don't know. But you're one of the most talented people I know. Like you're super talented, right? When it comes to creative things.

in all aspects of creativity. That's why even with Roxlyn, where when you had no experience in dealing or running an apparel business or a brand or whatever, you know, your background was always in film. I knew I wanted you on as the creative director, right? As the creative head and mind behind the brand. Because I knew your talent extended far beyond just the medium of film.

And it was all things creative, all things that reflected, that you had to use to reflect a message of some sort. And we aligned very well on that aspect. So that was always something I really admired about you, that you were always able to adapt your creativity

outside of just the main discipline that you studied, which was film. You're able to encompass that around. And I think that's why you have so many people that like you now, right? You're able to ingratiate yourself amongst so many people. It's because you're able to, one, your character is just, you're super friendly, you're super nice, you're super understanding.

But so that's just your personality. But your ability to be creative across all different things, I think, is what draws a lot of people to you. And I have almost anyone I know. You're the one that's able like before we were talking about the importance of being able to cross those boundaries of different social groups, right? Different social bubbles out of everyone I know. This includes people that grew up with.

You are the best at that. You can cross those social boundaries and social bubbles with such ease and like fluidity that it amazes me. It amazes me. So every time we go out together and I'm very like, you know, my EQ, right? So you say I have a high EQ. Maybe I do. Maybe I don't. But when I'm when we go out together and I see how other people interact with you,

I'm always like just astonished where it comes now where I take it for granted. I'm like, everyone is always going to be drawn to you. They're always drawn to him. I could be standing right there, but they're drawn to him. You know what I mean? And, and part of, I get jealous. Like, to be honest, sometimes I get jealous because I'm like, what the fuck? Why is he so cool?

I feel like I'm cool too. That's so weird. No, but everyone is. How is that weird, dude? You're always like the star of the show in the best of ways. And I say that in the best of ways with the best intentions, right? And that's what admires me because you're able to cross so many boundaries. And I don't know if that's because of your creative nature or just that's just who you are. But I think that's your strength. You're able to connect and get along.

with almost every social group that exists. I find that so strange. Do you know why? Why? Because that's something I beat myself up about. Really? Like, I feel like I see other people and I'm like, I wish I could be like them. Like who? See, I feel... We must just be, like, retarded. Because I feel people... I think people feel that way when they see you.

That's weird because I always feel like I'm the awkward one. I'm the dumb one. Are you serious? Yeah, the tasteless one. Or I'm like the... In like social settings. Yeah. I'm not even joking with you. That's why I even say... I feel like your meter is completely not calibrated. No, but that's what I'm saying. It's like even when we talk sometimes about... We both say that we are both introverted, right? And it takes a lot of effort to be social, to be out there. And I say...

I always say with you, I'm like, I'm the same way. And it's true because I hate being in social situations a lot of times because I feel like I suck at it. You know what I mean? And I have to work so hard to like try my best to adapt and like work. This is very shocking to me that you feel that way because another one of your strengths that I feel I was going to say is that I've always felt that one of your strengths is you're very clear about

on what you're good at and what you're not good at. And that sounds like a very simple strength, but I'm telling you, most people that I interact with are not like that.

they don't know what they're good at or they think they're good at, but then even things they're not good at, they think they're good at, right? They're not clear, they're not disciplined enough, like look, I'm not good at this, so I need to find someone else that is good at this to do that, and I'm gonna stick with something I'm good at. They're very clear, you're very clear about where your strengths and weaknesses are at field. So for you to say that this is shocking to you

It's very strange because I've always felt your strength was you're so clear about what you are. I feel like maybe it's because we were just saying this off camera before is that, I mean, without naming names, like there, I have certain, I've been around certain people where I'm just like, Jesus Christ, like they're good. Right. And, and knowing myself and knowing my, whether it's, let's say an IQ limitation or an EQ limitation, um,

I feel like that there's always room for me to be even higher. That might be the hallmark of people that are actually good at stuff is that the ones that actually think that they're not as good and they keep trying and striving are probably the ones that are good. And the ones that think they're good or don't value it probably are not actually good. So like what, like what,

person that's that's good at something is like oh i'm the best they usually don't do that like a true master will never think they're a master at anything no because they're always comparing themselves to who they were yesterday or always comparing themselves to another reference point yeah where they can elevate themselves that's true yeah that's true

I would agree with, I mean, I think, like, I'd love to spend more time with Howie to get more exposure to the creative side. I know on the music side, I was blown away by his talents and, like, some of the songs that he wrote, but I haven't worked with him. So I've always known that he's quite creative, you know, in that realm, but I haven't actually directly worked with it. Yeah.

But in terms of the being able to connect with anyone and just make, like, I think for me, like, to kind of add to what you were saying, it's the humor. Like, he can just, like, make anything, like, chingsong. So he can meet anyone. And, like, the center of attention, even if he's sort of like that center of the energy attention, he focuses on other. He's, like, not talking about himself, right? No, no. He's not self-centered, like, at all. He's, like, so generous and giving. And he puts attention on you. Yeah.

Yeah, people are still drawn to him. Right, they're drawn to him. Men and women, yeah. Yeah, I mean, whatever, but... I mean, what else? There's men and women. Especially... No, but I'm saying it's not just like a guy friend. Yeah, for sure, for sure. And...

But he's funny and he's pretty laid back and he focuses on you and he has good perspective. So he's a fun person to be around and he's super caring. If you message him, you text him, you call him, he's always going to make time for you. And maybe that could also become a weakness because maybe you don't know how to say no, whatever. But I know that if I need to reach out, he's the guy. If I need to talk to someone, if I need...

I put you on all the medical forms now. Wow. He's your emergency contact? Yeah. I just fucking, I just like, whatever. I'm not even going to tell him because like, I know that he's the only one that would even pick up the phone. Wow. That's a huge compliment. So you don't think I'd pick up the phone if you were in an emergency? No. He's like, no. Not just because you got your shit, right? You got to do your stuff and this and that. You know? Like, if I needed you, like, you would be there. But like, in that moment, contact.

him okay or my brother interesting okay that's a huge compliment yeah that's a very good compliment that's where you literally put him on like spartan i was like just fucking call howie lamb if i die yeah well he is like that he right yeah so it's not just a superficial manipulative thing it's that he truly makes people feel good about themselves he makes and he's a positive motherfucker he's not negative see that's important like i can get negative he's a pretty positive i get pretty negative yeah but he's but

But generally in a group of people, he's very positive. He's like looking at the bright side. He's humorous. He injects humor in things. There's a charisma there. Definitely a charisma. He is... Because it's weird that you think of yourself as awkward. Because you're the least awkward person I know. Yeah. Anyways, it's a skill, but you just have to use that hammer properly. Well, I think it's going back to what you were saying. It's that this is something actually I keep working on. Right? Like...

I'm continuously trying to make myself less awkward or feel awkward in social situations. But it's strange that you even think you are awkward. You are like... Maybe most people feel it. You know, okay, well, this is a weird example. It probably has nothing to do with Howie, right? But you remember Johnny Carson? Yeah. That motherfucker was a legend. Yeah, of course. Right? But apparently, Johnny Carson was deathly afraid of hanging out with people. Other than his show, he was a recluse completely. Yeah.

Like, if he didn't have that format of a talk show, he wouldn't be able to talk to people. Like, he was a recluse. Recluse. Completely. So... You know where my standards come from? It's actually because I get, like, certain... From a certain perspective, I get a little bit perfection-y.

And so like, for example, if I'm in a group, a group setting, I can see the pot of what you're saying. Like, yes, I can go into any group and I can ingratiate myself into any group. And I have that confidence that I can do it. But can I do it to the standard that I want to be? No.

- That's the difference. - Basically he's an egomaniac. - So the standards. - No, no, no, but what I'm saying is it's true, right? So if I'm around, let's say I'm around jocks, right? They'll talk about sports and I have some basic sports in my knowledge that I can talk about. But when I'm in there, I'm not gonna be able to lead it to the level that I want to be. Because I want to be able to-- - There's a bit of ego. - It is ego. - There is a bit of an ego in this one. - Just like with Eric, that is also your weakness. - You want to be liked.

- No, no, no, it's not, I don't think it's him that wants to be, like he does want to be liked, but I don't think that's the weakness. I think the weakness is you put your standards so high, it's not bad to have high standards, everyone should have high standards, but you put your standards sometimes so high where it inhibits you from even taking action on a lot of things because you're just like, well, if I'm not gonna meet that standard, if I'm not gonna be the best at, that great at that. - Then why do it? - Then we shouldn't even do it.

Because we'll just make a fool out of ourselves. Hell yeah. So then you're just like, okay, so you have this mindset of like, okay, well, if I'm not going to meet that standard, everything below that is just making a fool out of myself. Then you're just like, I'm not even going to do it. Until I know I can meet that standard. But no one ever knows they can meet that standard. You know what I mean? So...

So that's also your weakness where you get hesitant. And then, you know, sometimes you break through. Like even with this podcast, you know, like you held this podcast before we even did it. You were like, we need to have a standard for this podcast. We need to have a high standard for this podcast. And thankfully, we were all on board with that standard, right? None of us wanted a low standard for this show. But this is a very simple thing because this is very inconsequential. It's just a casual, it's a fun thing that we do in our spare time. So,

But when it comes to things that have higher stakes, then all of a sudden I think it becomes a weakness for you where you don't do a lot of things where you could probably do and maybe be pretty good at.

You don't do it because you put this higher standard. I'm already breaking it down. I'm already like... Because you can't get there initially. And then I guess the downside to that is that you could get there because standards are always floating, right? Like you're so much better than you were five years ago. Like five years ago, you didn't even... Like the thing that I've been thinking about recently is something like this. I was inspired by some stuff that I wrote. It's sort of like...

So the future you is going to look at you and think you're a dumbass. Right? However, what gives you hope is that the previous, the past you, looks at you and worships your ass. It's like, wow, I never knew I could do that. And that's the thing, because everything is a process. Just because you can't get there initially, no one can fucking get there initially. Because if your past you thinks you're a dumbass, then it's like, you're really wrong. Well, then you're headed in the wrong direction. Yeah, and then the other thing, and this I think will set up

Maybe when we have our other conversation. Okay, so my feeling from this episode is I've really loved it. And I love it because I got to know you guys better.

like i got and now i can appreciate you guys more because i'm like man these guys are pretty awesome there's things that they can do that i that i can't currently do and maybe if i spend more time with them i can do and it'll be useful right and then the other thing is like i learned a little bit about myself and i'm like oh you know what here's my hammer i should use it in the right way you should use it for good

And then we're doing this thing together and it gives me more energy because, hey, let's say we do other things together. It doesn't matter if you suck at something because maybe there's another guy in your group that's awesome at that thing. And so if we combine our powers, it's like fucking X-Men or Avengers. You don't have to be the most powerful person in everything. And you will never be because you have to focus. But just...

find the bright people around you to kind of round yourself out and you can do great things. So that group can always do more than you. The group of 10 awesome people can do more than 10 Eric's. Of course. That was good. Cheers. Cheers to that. Did you even say one of his strengths? You didn't even mention one of his strengths. I did. What strength? I said that I recognized his creativity from the musical side and then his ability to connect with anyone in such a natural way. He wrote on your question. But that's what I said. But you guys did the same thing.

Don't hyperanalyze things, okay? Alright. That was a good one, guys. Well done. Next one, we'll do... Let's break it down. Yeah, we'll get real. Let's break it down. We'll get real. Shit will get real on the next one. Dude, dick will be limp.

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