#100. The 100th Episode
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So let's fill people in a little bit on what just happened. Cheers. Eric and I have just become friends again. This session, today's episode, was very close to not even happening. Which is funny, right? Because it is our 100th. It's our 100th! Yay! Cheers! We're all happy now. Woohoo! All right. Okay. So let me just recap what just happened in the last half hour.

So, it's our 100th episode, and this has been a long time coming, and we're here to celebrate. And we have some questions we're going to go through from our listeners that they sent in. And as we were going to, because we have too many questions...

We got into a very heated argument. How we raised his voice ultimately at the end. Because it was getting to that point. And then Eric, you just stormed out of the studio, packed up your bags, and left. It was the first time he's done that since we started the show. Oh yeah. Yeah. For sure. But it's not the first time I've done that in our friendship. No, it's not. Yeah.

right yeah it's not a common thing of course but that just goes to show even after 100 episodes we're still working on ourselves you know we're still we're still working on our emotions and uh trying to get trying to rein them in sometimes there was already tension oh yeah and then this just kind of like went past that sort of threshold i think one thing that's funny to note is that

There might have been in my mind some pressure to deliver a great 100th episode. And we've been postponing the 100th as well because we want to make sure we had enough space and time. And we just wanted to really get it right to represent what we're all about. And we like to mess with each other. And we like to mess with areas that we've improved on so we can see if we can make the other person regress. Yeah.

I don't think that we're in a position to kind of like praise ourselves because I did storm out and Howie did kind of have an outburst. This almost became an epic fail. Exactly. So we can't like congratulate ourselves for like mitigating like behaviors that we shouldn't have. But the recovery period, I think, was a lot faster. Then it further de-escalated. I'm like, okay, what's the big deal? I'll just walk back in. And I think the old Eric would not have walked back in. No way. No. No way. No. No.

Because basically you have an A and B right now. You have A, which is you don't deescalate. You just go with the flow. You react with your emotions. Eric is on his way on the subway home right now. You know, I'm probably going- Yelling at somebody on the subway. You know, Justin's like, what the fuck just happened? You know what I mean? And he's like, I was here to do our 100th episode and now it's a mess, right? Nobody is good for it. Nobody is good for it. But instead-

We were both adults about it, right? And we just kind of like, oh, we realized our mistake. It was just an emotional burst. Yeah. Let's bring it down. And like you said, it had to be from both sides. Anyway, this is definitely not how we thought we were going to start off the celebratory 100th episode. I thought you were going to be like, anyways, this is the 100th episode. All right, let's put all that shit behind us. Cheers, motherfuckers. And welcome to the Honest Drink. Cheers.

Cheers. Are we cheers? Yes. Let's cheers. Cheers to the 100th episode, guys. Cheers. Anne's going to be our moderator today. I'll try to do a good job and stay sober. And by the way, for the audience who doesn't know what happened is I just get thrown into this role and I'm looking at like literally thousands of questions. I don't even know where to begin.

- It's ridiculous. Honestly, we were just expecting like maybe 10 questions. So we thought we were gonna be able to go through everything. With the amount of questions we got in, we're definitely not gonna be able to go through all the questions in one episode, but we appreciate everyone for writing in. There's been some great questions. Even if we don't get to your question today, we might save it as a topic for a future episode. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. - And we'll shout you out then too. - Can you share for everyone who might not be aware,

like how we came up with this idea and how all these questions relate to the 100th episode and how we got them all. What do you mean? I have no idea. What are you talking about? Ha ha ha!

What do you mean? How we got them all? Like, how we physically got them all? No, no, no. Like, how we reached out to everyone. Because for people listening to the show, right, they're not sure, like... Well, how about this? So, basically, a lot of the questions that came in, they came in through our WeChat group. They came in through email. A lot through email. Yeah. And, you know, some comments from the shows and stuff like that. So, yeah, we just collected them all. To me, what stood out was...

It showed the relationship people had with the show. And that was super humbling. And I was just really in shock with...

the kind of questions and the amount of questions that came in. You know, this show is really about all the listeners that have been with us the whole way and to get their thoughts. Yeah. But we wanted to celebrate this with every, everyone and kind of reflect on that journey that we've gone through together. So like, there's so many great questions. I think we can get to some of them today. And for all, you know, all those that we can't get to, I think they're going to help us inform future episodes, but the questions really relate to, you know, they're,

sort of reaction to the episodes we had before, different themes that we talked about, things that have really related to them and their lives. And so I think it's like, we're all sort of

dealing with this human condition as justin likes to say this messiness of being human And it's really really great that today we can dedicate an entire episode To kind of hearing from our listeners and like how they've grown and also just the challenges that they still face Let's throw one question in there. Just get things rolling right now Yeah, sure. Uh, i'm just gonna do a lucky draw on the first question because I yeah, we're throwing to ann So it's out of our hands. So don't blame us Yeah, it's my fault. Um, so first question. Uh

Oh, actually, this is a great question from Christian Yang. Christian Yang. He's in our WeChat group, right? He is in our WeChat group. And one of the questions he asked was, how has moving to China changed your life or life attitude, positive and negative?

I'll speak real quick because I was actually thinking about this today. Okay. So I found that I realized, first of all, I've become so much more like Chinese. You know what I mean? If that makes sense. Ever since moving here, I've been much more proud of my heritage and

And it's actually probably skewed me maybe in an unhealthy way in some time. I can relate to that. Yeah, I know you can relate to that. So that's one thing that's definitely changed because I started realizing the differences between the American life that I grew up in, born and raised, up until my 20s, early 20s, and then being in China for the next over 10, 15 years.

light and day, night and day, you know, differences and understanding that there are differences in culture and there are differences in ways in the way people are raised, um,

the way people think, priorities, and it's okay. Because before when I first came here, I thought it was not okay. I thought it was like, you know, why is everything so backwards here? You know, it's so different from what I'm used to in America. But now after being here for a while and becoming used to things here, then now I'm looking at America and being like, that's so backwards. Like, why is it like that? Yeah. Yeah. So that's the biggest thing for me that I'm taking, I've taken out of it. Yeah.

Yeah. I mean, I think it's really hard to pose it in a positive or negative way because I think on its face, a positive change after me moving to China, in terms of I feel like I have more empathy for different cultures. I think I have a broader world perspective. But on the negative side, it's brought along a lot of complicated feelings for me personally, which I don't really yet know how to resolve.

And so I just feel like, it's like, well, do you feel being unplugged from the matrix is a positive or negative thing? And that's a debatable question, right? Depending on where you stand, some people will be like, no, that's a negative thing because now I realize there's machines out to get us and I have to like run and survive, right? Or you can be like, well, no, I don't want to have to be plugged into this fake world. So it really depends on where your perspectives lie because for me, I feel like my eyes have been opened in a way

Where before I was living in a political, cultural bubble where I only was being informed by one side's media and culture. And now I see that there is so much bullshit out there. There really is.

And I wouldn't have known that if I had not moved out here and saw a lot of the media about China and was like, wait a minute. The comparison, right? Yeah, and I was like, a lot of it is just completely factually incorrect. Interesting. And we've done episodes about this, and I've spoken to guests about this. And so it just depends on, is ignorance bliss or is it not? And that's always been a debate. I like what you guys said. The only thing I would add would be,

Number one, moving here was just an invaluable part of my development. And had I lived in another place, that change and growth and development might look different. But I feel like the time here has changed me in a way where it's part of my identity. So I'm really happy about that. I don't know. I can't speculate if I'd spend all this time in the U.S.,

if the experiences there would have changed me. I have to assume that they would, but I think that moving and living here and working here has been one of the best experiences of my life. It doesn't make me not like the U.S. It doesn't make me necessarily create this type of positive or negative feeling. It just actually makes me want to embrace the

China and the U.S. even more. I think that would be the first point. The second is that I think I've made more friends, whether they're Chinese people or not Chinese people, and I feel like my capacity to connect with people has exponentially improved by being in a different culture and then re-relating to all the people around the world. Yeah, obviously after storming out of the room. Yeah, obviously. Obviously after storming out of the room. Yeah.

And I think, you know, finally, it's just, I think these things are kind of inevitable. Like whatever decisions you make in your life where you decide to live, you go all in on it. So I think it's just enhanced and augmented every possible thing. I can't think of too many examples.

sort of negative things. And it's enhanced my feelings, not just for like all the stuff in China, it's enhanced all the feelings I have and my understanding of all the things outside of China, including ones that maybe I haven't experienced before, but I'm much more open-minded to it. I mean, it's a big thing, right? It's like you're leaving your home base, right? That you, that you, what you knew in your heart growing up as your home,

which was back in the States, right? And you left and you go to a country where it's not your main language and the culture difference is so huge. And yet it takes a certain type of bravery. It takes a certain type of mentality, I guess, to make that type of decision. A willingness. A willingness, yeah. Openness, yeah. To make that kind of decision. And I mean, one thing that I would take out of this question or even the way we've been answering is that sometimes you just kind of have to just

Go big, you know, and get out of your comfort zone. And that's where you have a lot of positive experiences to come out because those are the things that these experiences that we just said are experiences that I'm sure the minute before we got on the plane coming here, we would never have thought that we would have said. Yeah. You know what I'm saying?

And that's the beauty of it. Yeah. You can't, just like we, just in the beginning of the show, it's like, you can't plan, you can't, it just, you just kind of got to go and just trust that it'll all work out in a good way. As long as you have the right mentality. I think, I don't, I don't think I would be overstepping by saying this, but I think the three of us, moving here in China has fundamentally changed the three of us for the better.

This question comes from Faded. So Faded asks, do you guys think there is a certain age that we should get married at? Because Faded says, I constantly get messages from my parents asking me to find a boyfriend. They keep saying the good guys are taken and telling me I'm getting older and I should get married. Is it a culture thing? Because I feel like Westerners doesn't have that issue.

There's a lot to impact there, for sure. Well, this is a scenario I think even personally, us as individuals, we have wrestled and are wrestling with. Maybe not in terms of the marriage thing, but what marriage also includes, which is maybe the idea of having kids afterwards and things like this.

I think the short answer to answer the question directly, do I feel what's the, what's certain ages? There's a certain age. No, I don't think there's a certain age to get married. And my personal feeling is if anyone tells you there's a certain age to get married, that's bullshit.

I don't think we should... I've always said this. So a 14-year-old, 12-year-old can get married? Come on, dude. You know what the fuck I mean, dude. I don't know what you mean. You know what the fuck I mean. You just said if someone challenged you. Okay, of legal age. Okay. I sense an outburst coming. Obviously, I can only speak from a male perspective.

Because I know the pressure of time is different for females because the whole idea of the biological clock is a real thing. So as a male, though, I think there is, we shouldn't base marriage on a number where like, oh, I'm this age, it's a deadline, I need to get married. I mean, I think that's just, you know, getting married for the sake of getting married. And I've always preached that I think that's a terrible philosophy to have.

reason to get married. So no, I don't think there's a certain age to get married. I'm saying that with the understanding that the pressures are different from a female. So I don't know, like maybe Anne, you can provide a perspective on that as a female? How should I say this without getting Eric pissed off? Just do it. Just piss him off. Who cares? He's pissed off anyway. I would say like before 25, I never feel like there's pressure. Like, you know, it's just, I'm

I'm still young and my career just took off. There's no pressure. Actually, more pressure for me at work than actually from my parents. But then as I start to approach the miracle number of 30, definitely there's pressure from my parents' side. I guess they don't mean it in a bad way and they don't nudge. My parents are usually very subtle when they try to press for that type of conversation. And then they give away certain signals that I can just pick up and I know when to run away from them.

They would always say, oh, we just want to make sure that you have someone who can take care of you

later down the road when we are not around, you know, they're very subtle about it. They don't, they wouldn't say, oh, when Eric and you are going to get married. They're good at speaking in terms of the benefits for the person they're trying to. But it sounds like fated parents are not being subtle about it at all. No. Right? No. So I think that's the thing because, I mean, I've heard countless amount of stories of people here in China, women feeling very pressured to,

Not just because you need to get married so that you can move on from a Western point of view. You move on and I don't have to worry about you anymore. No, it's the opposite. It's like you need to get married because you need to start...

getting set for the next stage of your life which includes themselves as well as parents you know so it's like there's a lot of other social issues not just about this like the spousal arrangement you know between a man and a woman and their love or whatever yeah it's it's a family it's a family thing you know i mean i see my like my friends like especially girls like approaching this

issue like both ways. Like there are ones that are actively seeking. So they're on all the online dating platforms that you can possibly find and they do research. So they will firstly register as a guy just to see what the market looks like. And then they will see how would I be able to position myself in a unique way so that I can have a certain

target audience wow right so it's like a lot of strategy yes there are like a lot of like like with that type of approach well there's nadrine in that as well yeah of course everywhere because like um the i think the rationale from that very proactive strategic approach is that um they want to find the right person right and then they want to attract this type of person that they're looking for so they want to make sure that they package them

So it's like from a branding marketing perspective. Almost. It's like they're doing their own personal development, right? In a way. And then there are also the other approach, which some of my, a lot of them are actually my classmates from my MBA in the past. And they were more like laid back. I don't know if it's culture because most of them are from Europe. They say, oh, you know,

Aging is like wine and cheese and whiskey. You know, the older you are, the higher the value you might have, even if, you know, in Asia, maybe some of those cultures are slightly different. So these ladies just take their time and then there's no rush for them and their family probably don't put as much pressure.

But then at the same time, they were just like very kind of just go with the flow in life. And then if they find a good soulmate and then great. If they don't, they're like, there's no point of shuffling them into someone who they don't feel strongly about. I think it just comes down to there's two different ideologies of people.

what marriage means. For us, marriage means love. You find the person you love and you want to spend the rest of your life, you want to commit to that person. I mean, there's the other ideology, which is marriage is...

It's not about love. It's not about emotion. It's practicality. It's a transaction. Literally. Well, it's about security. I think it's about both. I don't think it's just about love. No, but what I'm saying is that there are a lot of people out there that, whether or not that they believe it, but their family does, their parents do, in terms of arranged marriages, hitting a certain age and you have to get married by that time, literally, right?

And it's arranged. It's done. You know, there's, you have no say about it. Whether or not you love them, you'll learn to love them. You know, like,

That kind of stuff. Right? Yeah. But I do want to say something that was mentioned in the question by Faded was that she said her parents were saying all the good guys are taken. That's complete bullshit. Maybe looking at a different pool, Faded, we believe there are still many good fishes out there. Yeah, I think the pressures for everyone to get married are going to be different based on their own situation. I think it's about what is your North Star in making that decision. And I think...

the point Eric was trying to make before was it's a combination of a lot of different pressures for everybody, right? It's not just one thing or it's not binary like that. So that's a, that's a given. I think what is your North star? And not that I'm giving any advice, but for me personally, I can only say what I went through. And if you want to take something from that, go ahead.

So my North Star was above all, like, obviously, you know, you take into account the age of having children and, you know, all these more practical considerations. Of course, they're important. But the most important thing was do your best to marry the right person.

And whatever that means to you is your own definition of that. But that was my overriding priority above all the other important factors you have to consider was definitely marry the right person. Because if you don't, you set up a bad foundation that...

That in a weak foundation, for all the pressures and burdens and responsibilities, you're going to have to carry after marriage. So if you don't build a strong foundation, you're building a house on a deck of cards. You're building a house of cards. And that can result in much bigger setbacks than getting married a little later than you want to. I got married late.

And I'm actually proud of the fact that I got married late in the sense that like there's a confidence going forward that I feel can only be achieved through time with a person. There's no shortcuts around that. There aren't shortcuts to knowing somebody. It takes time. But I think like the next tier level question that goes along with this question is, is how do you deal with the parents and the family and the pressures of responsibility that many of our listeners may have? Of

Of course, I feel at the end of the day is if you don't feel right about it, even as much pressure as your parents are giving you and your family is giving you, try to find a way to communicate that with your parents. I feel like a lot of it is lost in communication, right? I think some, maybe some parents are hard to communicate with. Maybe some people are just not as communicative, but maybe there's intimidation there. Maybe there's a lot of different things going on.

I don't know, but at least make the effort to try to communicate your point of view if you are going to stand up against what they want for you in that moment.

It's going to be difficult for us to offer any specific advice, obviously. We can share our experiences. But I think Justin has shared some good things about maybe what not to go into marriage for. It's hard for us to help people understand why you would do it. That's really personal to you. But there's probably some things where you shouldn't be doing it, and you shouldn't be going into it too rashly. So you don't marry to get rich?

And it depends on your purpose, right? And not your sugar mama. Yeah, exactly.

We're working on that. We're working on that. But I think it goes back to the point of like, what does marriage really mean to you? What does it mean to your family? And sometimes it's hard to make decisions independent of your family. Like growing up in the US for us, yeah, in Asian households, like yes, there is a strong family influence, but maybe it's even stronger here in Asia. So like, what does it mean to you? What does it mean to the rest of your family? I also feel like,

if we narrow the question a little bit just to say, okay, well, maybe this is something, maybe you want to find a great boyfriend or girlfriend. Maybe you want to go on that path. That's what you want. Well, how would you increase your chances is that be in the environments that you enjoy. So if you like fitness, if you like, you know, going to the museum, you know, you like a entrepreneurial environment at work, like whatever it is that you like, you

that involves people, like put yourself out there more and be in those environments more. Because number one, as we all shared, that you have to have someone in common with your other half. Because if you don't, it's really difficult.

And putting yourself in environments where you can meet people doing the things that you enjoy doing, you're naturally just going to meet more people that way. And you're going to meet people probably that fit you a little bit better. So I think it's just tying back to the purpose of the show is like to just really engage the world and meet it head on, put yourself out there. Don't be so much driven necessarily by what your parents want or by these expectations because that'll actually make it harder to get to the same result.

But like, if you want to meet people or you wanna eventually have a partner, then you gotta go to places that have people. And preferably these places have people that doing similar things to you and preferably whatever you're doing is interactive.

Like, you know, going to the movies, you might not meet anyone, right? But if you go to like a book club, maybe you'll meet people, you know? So I think it's like try to lessen some of the pressures about what's coming externally and focus a little bit more on that.

you know, what drives you. Also be very thoughtful about like what your needs are now, knowing that these needs might change in the future. My needs 10 years ago were about partying every night and drinking and just having fun and letting loose. But 10 years later, those are no longer my needs. So I also think you got to protect the future self and kind of think about what that person needs in the future.

That was long-winded. Let's move on. This is actually a question from Xu Zi. I hope I pronounced your name correctly. Uh-oh. This is a big question. Oh, should we do this one? Do you wear pants on the show? Answer is no. Okay, Xu Zi. X-U-Z-I...

Why do you want to have kids? The reason I'm asking is because I think the world is in a really weird state right now. With so much uncertainty in terms of geopolitics and climate issues, I'm not sure if I can bear bringing a new life into this world. But at the same time, I see so much love and joy in the eyes of new parents around me.

Wow, that's a huge question. You know, I want to jump in on this right away because honestly, this is something that I have been struggling with. And...

For me, when I was young, I used to always say that I wanted to be a young father. I wanted to have kids when I was in my early, mid-20s. When I was young, when I was little, you know what I mean? When you were little, you were already saying you wanted to have kids? Yeah. Wow. It was weird. I'm weird like that. Okay. And all of a sudden, because of the way the world is going, my perspective started changing again. I'm like, wait, do I even want to bring kids to this world? And just like he said in this question... Well, we don't know if it's a he.

Oh, well, yeah, exactly. I don't know if it's he or she, sorry. What it said. What this person says. What they said. What they said. It totally is something that I thought about because I'm just projecting now of where the world may go and may kind of go towards between...

artificial intelligence taking over between the war of the worlds between climate change like he meant like she this person mentioned um yeah and also you're like okay yeah i don't see it happening within the next like you know immediate future but by the time if i have kids now and they get to my age

They're going to be right in the middle of it, you know, which is very possible. So, yeah. So I definitely thought about that personally. And in the end, I made... And actually, I was advocating adoption, right? Oh, yeah. Yeah. And I was actually really thinking about that. But in the end, I actually still decided to think about, okay... Because I don't have kids, right? So think about, okay, well, maybe I will...

have my own kid and then, and have faith that everything will be okay. And as much as I am in control of this person, this baby's life, I will provide an okay surrounding as much as I can. And that's the only thing I can think of. That's the only thing that I can control right now. So that's, that's my, my, and my end result for me. I think it's just a really big decision. And then how you look at it can be really, really complex. I've,

Just before, I just looked at it really simple, like, oh, kids are so cute, and they're so innocent, and they're just kind of a natural part of the human order. But there are lots of considerations. So I think it's probably one of the things that you and your partner have to really talk through.

My answer would be, selfishly, I would like to have kids. But if I was to try to look at the world objectively, I would say to just the human race, let's not have kids. Let's not have so many kids. Who decides who gets kids, though? Well, I think I mentioned this before. When we watched the movie Avengers, I thought, in my mind, Thanos was the good guy.

I totally understood his logic. You're also an emotionless robot. Dude, Thanos is like Satan. I can't like... No, because he saw that what the world was headed towards, or the universe in his context was headed towards, overpopulation, limited resources, which just made life miserable for everyone ultimately. And he was trying to save...

the people in the future by eliminating half the population. It's like Thanos was watching CNN every day and made his decision. I think we're making a lot of assumptions of what Thanos knows and doesn't know. There's this question raised by Xichuan. Does it really matter to you that a job gives you a sense of security and prepares you for retirement? Like the ultimate Tom Paine.

I don't want the ultimate Tong Ping. The ultimate Tong Ping is like your debt. No. Oh, come on. That's the ultimate Tong Ping. No, I think everyone has different ways to view that. Well, I think it might be interesting for all three of us because all three of us have very different ways of making money. So I can go first. So I've never... Well, now, especially now, I'm not doing my work...

for a sense of security. I'm not doing it to prepare for my retirement. I'm doing it because I enjoy what I do and because I feel like I cannot or should not be doing anything else right now. So it's not because I'm doing it for the check. I think that's a very different position than many other people may be in. I mean, clearly, all of us sitting here right now are coming from a very privileged point of view compared to most people in this world.

That is not a priority for me. Ask me 10 years from now, maybe my mind might change. I know the answer to this question very well from my parents. Absolutely, right? They're immigrants. They struggled. They're very different than me. I mean, we share a lot of the same, we share the same values, but they're very different. But if I ask this to my parents, there wouldn't be a me had they not answered yes to this question. Yeah.

you know, when they moved to the U.S. Like a sense of security. Their life was driven by the need for security because they grew up in an environment where they didn't have that. And so every single decision that they've made even now is to think about what happens to them and what happens to their children should one day they not be around. So I think that this is a very personal question. It addresses your personal needs and there's no one that is wrong on this question. But

you should, you know, like every person should really consider what their circumstances and really think about it, knowing that in 10, 20, 30 years, that future you is,

might be different than the current you, but that future you is gonna be, you're gonna be giving that person a package. And whether it's a good package or a bad package, whatever it is, you've gotta think about because that's you. - So are you answering the question that yes, it is a priority for you? It is super important? - I'm not gonna answer it for me in particular, right? Because I think that it's not relevant to the audience in that sense, but I just wanted to share the example of my parents where it's different than me.

and circumstances could change, right? Like if tomorrow I became broke, fuck, man. Like, yeah, you better bet that the answer is yes. So I don't think there's a yes or no to the question. I think it's really personal, and it depends on your circumstances. But the one, I think, suggestion I would give is to think about what could happen 10, 20, 30 years, and then make decisions that are not just for today. That's very reasonable.

I mean, especially in this day and age where I feel like even the way of living, the idea of the way of living could drastically change. There's something in the air. We feel like something's coming. Something's happening, right? Like something's coming. We just don't know what. It just feels that way. You can't think in a traditional way anymore. I just feel like I constantly talk about this. Like you can't think about like, you know, what's the next step for your life? You know, if you have a kid right now, oh, go to college. And what's the college you're going to go to? And I feel like

- The way of living and these kinds of questions are going to be changing very quickly. - Like a wrench is about to be thrown into the gears. - Something's going to happen in the next 20 years. Anyway, all right. - I guess like there is a very interesting question since we are on the 100th episode. So this question from Xiaoxiao. - Ha ha ha ha. - So Xiaoxiao asks, "What changes does this show bring to you guys?"

So what might be the change that you see maybe among yourselves that you would like to highlight? I definitely see change on Justin a lot from the first episode when he sounds kind of unsure till like now. He's like a big podcast professional. Wow, I'm a big podcast professional now? You know what, he's just big. That's what I say to myself in the mirror every morning when I wake up. You are a big podcast professional.

So I would find like the transition point. So I would take like an earlier episode where you first started the intro and you're like, welcome to the show. And then I would find one that you, you're the current you. And then I would play them for Anne all the time. And we would just like crack up. Well, that's good to know you guys are laughing behind my back about me.

No, the earlier ones, when he started, it was a lot more... It was actually much more artificial sounding, right? He's like, hey, guys. Hey, guys. Today's show is... Well, the first one was like... He was like, hey, guys. He was like, hey, welcome to the show. I'm Justin. And... We've actually mentioned this before.

Previously, either off air or on air, I'm not sure. But I definitely know we talked about this and it was Eric calling us out, basically saying like, you know, we talk about all this mindset stuff. We talk about all these like, you know, creating habits and trying to become better. But do we really, really put it into action? So I think this goes hand in hand with this question. Okay, to keep it snappy. Yes. What's one thing that this show has done that's...

that has improved your life outside of the show? - For me, honestly, like truly, I give less fucks. And it really, like, and I've said this before to you guys in private, like the episode, the old episode we did, the subtle art of not giving a fuck. And I think throughout this journey of doing this podcast, honestly, after doing this, I give less fucks now.

And not that it's like, oh, I'm going through life like really blase, like, ah, I don't care about anything. No, it's like I identify what I really want to care about and I care deeply about those things. But a lot of things that I feel like were just very superficial or were just outside noise, I don't care about those things. I really, truly don't. And I feel like I am more liberated in that sense of being able to just be who I am and live my own life

as much as I can on my own terms. And that's what I mean. Like, I really, honestly, I give much less fucks. I do. You hear that out there? Because everybody out there here, he doesn't give a fuck about what you guys think. Cheers. Yeah, cheers to that. No, it's good. It's good. I mean, you're happier, right? Because you don't have to live other people's values. I just feel like a weight's been lifted off, like a yoke has been lifted, like lift off my neck. We'll unpack that in a future episode. Why did it take like 30 something years for that to happen?

shaking my head no but we spoke about this deeply on the subtle art of not giving a fuck I mean that's really what that whole episode was about yeah so I think for me to keep a snappy um

It hasn't brought any change to Howie. Really hasn't. Actually, I think this podcast made him worse. Much worse. Like, if you look at him today, he's physically and mentally worse off than he's ever been. In every single way. And we've also shared to tens, if not hundreds of thousands of people, like, all of his demons, basically, on air. It's fucking me. I can't get a job now. I've lost all friends. You're on the street. Yeah.

Ever since the show, yeah. If you see someone like him at Mai Dang Lao, you know he's gotten in tough times. What's wrong with Mai Dang Lao? I don't know. It's the greatest place on earth. It is. Not if you're sweeping the floors, not eating their stuff. What's wrong with people sweeping the floors? They're doing a very important job. You're right. You're right. That's my bad. How dare you?

Yes. Let's move on. We were rambling a little bit. Okay, next question. Here's another question from Ivory. I want to know how you guys become friends. Actually, I'm curious too because I never get to ask you this question. Well, that's assuming a lot that we're friends. Yes. Yeah. That's with that assumption, which shouldn't be. You know that Justin pays me for every episode. I hate his guts. Wait, you get paid? Yeah. Fuck. Double actually because he doesn't pay you. He's raised his rates recently because he really doesn't want to be here. Oh, come on. Seriously.

How did you guys meet each other? It's not that exciting. I don't know. We met in Shanghai, all three of us, about like 10 years ago, right? Roughly. 12 years ago. 12 years ago. 13 years ago. Well, I mean, I do remember one of the big things that popped out when we first met was

When I first met Justin, I mean, we talked about this all the time. Yeah, we didn't like each other at all. We didn't like each other. I mean, my first gut instinct was this guy is a cocky mofo. That's what I thought about you. I know, which is funny. I thought you were too cool for school. Which is funny, right? I'm like this motherfucker. Because your cousin brought me in and was like, yo, this is my cousin Justin. And then I'm like, hey, how you doing? I'm Howie. And then Justin looks at me, gives me a head nod, and just looks away. I'm like, whoa!

I don't even remember doing that. This mofo, who do you think he is? Actually, Justin didn't even see you. He literally had an itch and he just moved his head. It was even worse. Yeah, no, it's funny because we really didn't like each other at all when we first met. We just rubbed each other the wrong way. Yeah, and then we slowly became so close, right? And actually, I do remember something about Eric. I'm not going to go into too much detail, but

I do remember the first moment I said hi to him. And I don't think I ever told you this because it wasn't as intense as when I first met Justin. But I remember Eric was wearing this white, kind of like striped... A white suit. Like a button-down shirt. And when I shook his hand, he looks me in the eye. He's like, oh...

Howie? I said, yes. Oh, nice to meet you. Nice to meet you. Very polite. Like really formal, really polite. And I was thinking, and I remember my first thought was like, okay, he seems like a nice guy. Right? And then literally cut to two hours later, three hours later, his shirt is like half untucked, like running around like beer everywhere or like alcohol everywhere. He's like, oh God! He's just like screaming. He's like, let's get out of here. Let's go somewhere else.

else just fighting people no he wasn't fighting he was just really excited he was just really drunk right so he was like let's go let's move on come on who's with me who's with me like one of those moments so that was so i was like okay i'm super composed yeah like the most uncomposed yeah so that that i remember and i was like all right cool he can get down so then yeah okay

I'll just share two thoughts. There's too many. So Justin was kind of like the jock and like everyone sort of like respected him, right? Because he was like the jock. He didn't say that much, but like he was like he was the man. And then Howie, you know, he was kind of the ladies, like, you know, the ladies man. And that was where the respect came from. What is the ladies man? Yeah, I don't know what that means.

No, he was smooth. He was the most smooth guy of everyone, and he had the highest level of exploits. And once I found that out, I was like, oh. All right. Respect. It was like, okay, game on. Immediate respect. Game on. Oh, game on. Competition. Yeah. Because you were quite the ladies' man yourself. Oh, was I? Oh, okay. Here we go. Okay. Next question. How many ladies you had? All right. How many ladies? Name the number. Next question. Number. How many ladies? Let's be snappy. Oh.

Yeah, well, you know, like a shout out to my boss. Actually, we're going to be a boss now. And he was like, hey, I heard you had a podcast.

He's like, mind if I listen in? I'm like, that's cool. Oh, this is going to give you more street cred. Yeah. I sent him the Gavin Pratt episode. I don't know if I want him to listen to this one. He's a cool guy, though. Well, Ivory, that's how we first met. Oh, that sounds crazy enough. Those were crazy times. Yeah, crazy times. I hope that wasn't like back in university or college. No.

No, it was back in Shanghai. Back in Shanghai? When we first all moved to Shanghai. That was like last year. Oh, wait. No, no, not last year. Those were truly crazy times. And like for a lot of the young people, they don't understand how crazy Shanghai used to be back then. It's crazy because if you guys were like that, like when you just got to Shanghai, how would you guys even behave when you were back in the university time? My mom basically like lived in my dorm. Beat my ass every day. I think you just hit...

You're hitting a real good point because a lot of the reasons why that I found when I first moved here that a lot of people quote unquote partied really hard was because back in the States they didn't. You know what I mean? For many different reasons. They were all bottled up back there. Yeah, they were bottled up or whatever. And that's a very common thing. Or they weren't part of the cool crowd. For Asians back then, right? So that's one thing I definitely realized and remembered.

But yeah, it was a different time. I think we're also young. So just like I'm sure there's the young people today out and about, and then they're doing their crazy exploits that they think is going to be, oh my God, it was crazy Shanghai 2021. Oh my God. They don't know. They don't know.

They don't know. No, you sound like Al Bundy. No, they don't know, honestly. You know what's interesting is we have an audience who is actually in college age. And then this guy, I hope, I'm not sure if that's a guy or a girl, Lin Dongbing. So he has a question. He's actually seeking advice from all three of you guys. Because he mentioned that the university students in the States are facing a very...

uncertain period of time. And then at the same time for university students as a whole, and then some people want to pursue further education in the States. So his question is, what might be some of your advice that you can give to those people, those students who are facing this type of uncertainty that has never happened before, based on your experience? Uncertainty that has never happened before? Well, I think I'm looking at the question, so...

LDB says... No, it's LinkedIn. I know, LDB, right? LDB says...

You know, uni students feel confused about their future. Are they clear, like, on what they really like? What advice do we have? Suggestions on, you know, what to pursue? You know, it sounds like an age-old question. Yeah, it's an age-old question. Younger people, you know, and, like, going through a very formative period, being exposed to all kinds of stuff, especially, like, if it's a Chinese student going to the U.S. Like, your mind's just been blown. Okay, like, what do I do now? Well, I hope...

it can bring some comfort to know that that question, those feelings are not unique at all. I think for every single, not every single, but for every generation of students that have gone to college and graduated, they were unsure what the future brought. It was a lot of anxiety. They didn't know, right? And every generation has their own kind of hurdles to deal with that. I think that feeling is nothing new. It's how I felt.

So I don't think... That's how you felt? Like you knew you were going to be a podcaster? No, I didn't know. He asked, I mean, like, can you share your stories? Oh, they're asking for our stories. Yeah. What would you do differently? Like a quick summary of what was it like for you after graduating? I'm not the right person to ask. Part of it is even your fuck-ups or whatever, if it's a fuck-up story, like, share it.

As I understand it, you started in a small school that was a little bit closer to your home on the East Coast. And then you moved to one of the biggest schools and famous schools. I mean, I graduated. I didn't know what I wanted to do. I started trying a bunch of things. If anything, I guess maybe that's the one thing I would take away. Is that when you first graduate, you have the luxury in life of...

your responsibilities are only going to get bigger and bigger as you get older, normally, generally speaking. And so when you first graduate, I think that's the chance for you to take more risks.

If you want to take risks, if you want to explore different things, if you want to take a chance on pursuing certain avenues, that's the chance to go for it instead of later on in life where the consequences of doing so if you fail are just going to be much greater. And then you're going to end up regretting, oh, I wish I tried this. I wish I tried that. So try things early on. If you're fortunate enough, I wasn't, but if you're fortunate enough to be really clear on what you want to do very early in life, what your passion is,

then go for it. Get on that track and work your ass off and go down. And, you know, I wish I had that. I wish I was very clear on what I wanted to do because that could be like maybe really great at it now, but I wasn't. And what was great, I tried a bunch of things and that gave me a lot of life experience that I really appreciate. Anecdotally, just like in terms of like stories, right? I don't have anything to back this up. It's that

Like all the folks like Justin that I spoke with whose parents were a little bit more chill and, you know, I had really strict parents. They got to experience different things. I don't think it held them back. I don't hear a lot of like, you know, these friends or people I know that said, oh yeah, you know, like I wasn't that focused. I tried different things. And then now like, I'm, you know, I'm not having a good life. At the same time, I would say that like, because there was a lot of pressure and focus in certain things that I didn't necessarily want to do, like,

I, you know, I, I think I had a, a good sort of early, um, part of my life. And, um, but I, I, I think I, I would have wished that it was like, I could try more things. So I think it's like the people that I spoke with that tried a lot of different things. Very few people regret that. But the people that I know, including myself that had a very strict path, they wish that they could have like a little bit more opportunity to try things like earlier on. That's the only thing I can say. Yeah. Yeah.

I mean, I think for me, really quickly, is I studied film. I was very direct with exactly what I wanted to do. And afterwards, I mean, I jumped around. And I used to think that that was bad, like a waste of time. And I still, like, a little part of me...

think things that way. But I mean, I started doing other things like, for example, besides music, I was playing music. But when I came to Shanghai, I was also doing a lot more marketing stuff and, you know, events and other creative things. And then we did, you know, fashion brand. And so I did a lot of other stuff, account management as well. You know, I did a lot of other stuff that had nothing to do with directing. Making french fries at McDonald's. There's nothing more interesting, compelling than account management.

Nothing. Yeah. Nothing. And so, yeah, basically, but then I kind of came back, right? So then I came back to filmmaking and then I used all those experiences to help me do what I do now. Yeah. And that's what I think that's the key because, you know, when Ling Ling...

LDB. Ling Dong Bing. Is that what it is? Ling Dong Bing, yeah. Ling Dong Bing was asking about some suggestions on how to pursue what you like. A lot of times, if you don't know...

Even if you do know, sometimes it's good to veer. Sometimes it's good to just throw yourself in different situations or try to learn different things because you'll always be able to connect the dots and create like this hybrid version of what this ideal version of what you could be.

And I think I love what you're saying. And it's true. I think the main takeaway here, to sum it all up, is just try to curate as much life experience as you can. Try different things, date different people, do whatever it is, like do all these things when you can, when you're young. And those things will end up connecting in ways that you never thought were possible.

Absolutely. There's a really great book that's called So Good They Can't Ignore You. And I think, you know, number one is if you don't have some, like if you're young, right, right now, and you don't have like a passion, like that's normal. So if you don't have a passion, if you're not completely set on a path that you're

that you want, that not your parents want, that you want, that's actually normal. So like be okay with that and don't like beat yourself up. And then number two to Justin's point and Howie's point is like, get all these experiences, build up your skillset. 'Cause one thing that So Good They Can't Ignore You talks about is that, well, if you try everything, but you don't give each thing enough time, you don't build any skills.

But if you give it just enough time, then you can build skills. You'll learn that maybe this isn't for you, but ultimately, you know, later on, you can put all these pieces together and then you will find what your real passion is. All right, we're going to keep moving on. Nikki from email. Nikki from email. When I read James Clear's book, Atomic Habits, he mentioned the link between your action, your identity, the kind of person that one wants to be. So...

to us, what kind of people do we want to be? And have we become the people that we've wanted to be yet? Great question, Nicky. Thank you. I think out of the three of us, Eric is the only one that actually read Atomic Habits. Did you read it? I have it next to my bed. I didn't finish it. Next to my bed. As long as it's next to my bed. Yes. As long as it's in close proximity, that's the same as having read it. I read the book title. Yeah. So what was the question again?

Wait, are you listening? This is the second time you said that. I'm pretty hammered. Nikki says that there is this link between your actions and your identity. And there's some really great passages around that, right? If you think of yourself as an athlete, then you're going to work out. If you think of yourself as a musician. So the question was, what kind of person do you all want to be?

the meaning of the three of us, and have you become this person that you're striving for? I mean, I think Justin wants to be SpongeBob. I want to be Thanos. I made that clear. I made that pretty clear. I want to be Thanos. The scary thing is I'm not even sure who I want to be. I used to think I wanted to be a successful entrepreneur. That's what I used to think back in the day. I used to think I wanted to be an artist, a musician, a chef.

These are all things that I felt like I used to want to be, and yet it changes. And right now I'm asking, I think the questions that probably a lot of people ask themselves is, well, what is it all about?

what is life all about? And what do I want to get out of it at the end of the day? And the whole kind of cliche, like, okay, well, you're on your deathbed. What are the memories you want to have? What are the achievements? What would you be grateful for on your deathbed for having achieved? I think when we get lost is when we lose sight of that question and get into and just become robotic into the routine of life, into the outside pressures of life. And we start living a life that

is not kind of dictated on our own terms. We start living a life that is not something we want at all. It's not something that brings us any sort of happiness or fulfillment. And I think as long as we can consciously keep asking us this question of who do I want to be? How do I get there?

How do I figure this out? Without the answer, as long as you're asking yourself that, I think that is the work. I think from a societal perspective, there are problems with that, right? Society-wise, right? Like, oh, are you too old? Or, you know, normal pressures that you would hear from people. And I want to combine this with another question that somebody asked so we can continue this conversation. Okay. So the other question was from Kate Chichi.

And she asked, do you guys think age brings limits? Will you always do the things that you really want to do no matter how old you are? Right? For example, like going abroad for master's, PhD in your 40s, starting a business in your 50s, or do you compromise for the sake of family, marriage, or age? You know, that kind of stuff. So I think this actually goes together. Yeah, yeah. You know, and I think we can combine it all together because your response, Justin, my immediate response is I agree with you because we're

To a certain extent, I can understand those kind of non-clarity in terms of who you really want to be or who you are. And my immediate question was that, I mean, when is it too late? Is there too late? So I think it's a deep question. It's a deep question that I think is very personal and maybe for many listeners out there, I'm sure.

that have the same, you know, battle, inner battle? - It's a deep question for sure, and it definitely goes beyond the job title, right? It's like, who do you want to be?

And hopefully before you die, you have some sort of clarity with that. Hopefully. So you don't feel stressed at all? Like, or- I do. I do. Because if we want to bring it back down to earth to a more practical level of like, oh, what do I want to do with my life? Yeah, who are you? Like, what is my career? Like, what do I want to, you know, what do I want to be a father and raise a family? Do I want to have this job or that job? But what do I want to do? Yeah. Okay. Then on a practical level, definitely it's like,

I think age does bring some limits, only in the sense that if your responsibilities start piling on, your tolerance for risk will start changing on a practical level. And I think that's true for most people.

But I feel like the spirit and attitude in which you go about doing things shouldn't change. I feel like no matter at what age you're at, you should try to have the same spirit of a young person and explore and achieve and try to take chances where you can. But I think the attitude in which you go about things shouldn't change.

I think what hits home to me even more and what I face, and I've discussed this previously in other episodes with age, is deciding on a certain path to go down.

You know, and for me personally, it took me a long time to make that decision because I was sort of in that limbo state, like how Justin described, where I kind of had interest in this and that and I was doing this and that, right? And then, and there was never a real strong focus of I'm putting my foot down, I'm going, you know? And then ever since I made that decision, what, four or five years ago now, I haven't looked back and I haven't, I haven't wavered, you know? And that's the first time I've ever done that, you know?

And so for me is that I have made that sort of decision. I have changed that identity, the way I view myself to live a certain way career-wise. But that doesn't mean as a person, as a human being with emotions and the way I view things in life, I'm at the stage or at the point where I want to be. So I actually differentiate that. I mean, what you have in this world,

is really to live a life or try to live a life without regret and at least try to be happy during it. Lawfully speaking. Sure. Sure. Just to close out this question on the, I always have to get the last word, right? Yeah, you do. Justin usually gets it, but sometimes in the middle of the show, I can kind of get in on it.

I think that like after hearing this conversation, I echo some of what Justin was saying. Obviously this changes depending on time, place, scenario. If you ask me this question at different points of time, even within the same week, I might come up with sort of a different answer.

But I think like a couple of things that I was just thinking, some thoughts is like, number one is my purpose is to have a purpose. Like I don't want to not have a purpose. Right. And the reason I want to have a purpose that can change is,

is that I wanna be able to reflect constantly and revisit this so I can actually work towards something. Because the whole point of a purpose is that you can work on it. And it might change, but you don't wanna spend your whole life without purpose and have done nothing, jack shit. Then you're gonna regret it, right? So I think that leads to the idea of I don't want to have, I wanna minimize the regrets in my life. So in five years, 10 years, 15 years, 50 years, when I look back,

I want to have made at least somewhat the right decisions to get me to that point. Obviously the dots connect going backwards, but I want to fuck things up so bad that in 10 years, like I, like it's game over for me.

So like, I think to that, I wanna have a set of principles and I keep working on this. I wanna have a set of principles that I can consistently follow, that are practical enough, that fulfill my personality enough that I can do it. So I can be really consistent and build that habit. I also wanna be true to myself. I don't wanna live my whole life

You know, and then like get to a point where like, fuck man, I didn't make any decisions because I wanted them. I made decisions because of whatever pressures in life. So like, I think it's important that the purpose, there's a purpose every day, which is like to put the energy and put your energy into the things that bring you energy. I also firmly believe that we need to be healthy and fit and

because you have nothing without health. We all know when you get sick, like you just have nothing without health. So you can't even have purpose if you don't have health. So I don't mean it in a necessarily in a fitness, like workout kind of way. I mean, in a true health way where you're a healthy person so that you can achieve your potential. And I think the final thing I would share is that, um, there's more. Jesus Christ. Are we like on the 15th thing now on the list? Is to keep,

My purpose is to keep learning and improving so that I can be flexible and adapt as the world changes. And then my purpose also needs to kind of flex to that. Like, you know, we shouldn't put so much pressure on ourselves to have to like chisel down and define a really concise like purpose. Like, oh, I want to be this in life.

I mean, that's really hard. Some people have it and that's great. But if you don't, I mean, you can work towards that, but it doesn't mean like if you don't have that, you can't live a happy life and a meaningful life. So I think for like, for me, I want to die without, with, with as few regrets as possible. And I think that's a really great like direction and mentality to have because then you'll take action and start doing things. So you mean like changing the way you live starting now then, right? Yeah.

Because I have so many regrets right now. No, but yeah, like, I mean, like every day is a new day and every day is the start of the rest of your life, right? It's so cliche, but it's so true. And I want to die with as few regrets as possible. All right. Yeah. And we don't know when it's going to end. I think we did a show before about like, would you want to have the envelope? Like if you knew exactly when you're going to die and there's an envelope that had that information, would you open? And I said, no.

But how do you navigate your life? If you want to just really break it down, because most, probably the three of us, we don't have a whole lot of clarity and that's probably an issue because the more clarity we have, then the more that we can direct our attention and focus and energy into the things that

that we value and that's probably not a rare thing i think probably most people don't have clarity that's the point of the show is that we're talking through these things so i think that like if we can simplify and think about how you navigate your life so that when you get to the end you have the least amount of regrets that is a a a type of framework or a filter i also ask myself this question well then what values are going to drive your day-to-day decisions and actions

So I think these are two things that come to mind. And while I've made some progress in being able to answer these questions and I've made changes in my life, going to bed early, waking up early, like that's a value of mine that I didn't have most of my life.

but my experience tells me that this is gonna lead to less regrets at the end of my life. And so I've started to kind of answer this really complex question, like how do you have the least amount of regrets when you get to that end? And so I think it's a process, not an actual formula. I also think that people think about, when they think about,

what will give them the least amount of regrets long-term and in the short term. Cause you, you, this, this, this battle is happening between the short-term you and the long-term you. I think Conoman, Daniel Conoman has talked a lot about that. The experiencing self is like the remembering self, but this notion of achievement, uh, just enjoying the moment, um, exploring new things, all these things are constantly coming into conflict and, um,

One thing that I wanted to call out on this one is that you have to have the means to be able to have the autonomy to make your own decisions.

This is a little bit of honest drink host privilege. Oh, for sure. Is that we can actually have the conversation and we can say, hey, I actually have the means to make these decisions. Whereas there's a lot of people where their life is much simpler. Like it's just a matter of survival. So I think that also gives you the context like death is.

and gratitude give you the context that, oh shit, maybe life isn't that complicated. Maybe I should just be a good fucking human being and be nice to people and make the world better because I've got it pretty easy. But there's always this conflict of the day-to-day you wanting certain things, wanting to achieve, and who do you want to be by the end of your life? When you're reading your eulogy, as David Brooks says, your eulogy virtues versus your resume virtues,

what kind of person you want to be. So I think I want to at least invest some of my time into my character. And my character is something that impacts everyone, not just myself. I just want to really make a brief comment about what you said, because I just had this like thought in my mind when you're, when you're describing the, like the day to day. A thought or a voice? The voice came in my mind. Definitely a voice. And, you know, I was just thinking is that you're so right. You know, every day,

the problems that we bring up in our lives are actually quite zoomed in. Right. And, and it's, everything's just so zoomed in. So everything becomes so huge in our, in our, in our mind's eye. Now,

If you kind of zoom out and kind of see like the world, you know, I think you mentioned this before, then all of a sudden you realize that it's not such a big thing and you kind of have to simplify some of your thoughts, some of your needs, some of your wants. Maybe it is as simple as, you know, just be a good human being, you know, like, like don't think so much. Why are you so, so zoomed in on this problem? You're so zoomed in on the situation. Zoom out, zoom out a little bit. Yeah.

Gain some perspective. And Eric's talked about this. We've had episodes where he talks about, you know, zooming in, zooming out. Yeah, it's great. You know, like...

Looking at it from like if aliens were to come and see us, what would they be observing, right? Well, the visual of that was power. Honestly, you took it to another level. The visual of that is so powerful. It is zoomed in. Think about when you're on your computer and you zoom into the point where you can't even see. It's all pixelated. Yeah. And you're only seeing that one thing. You're not seeing the big picture. That's when you've gone off track for sure. And that's a filter. So I feel like...

Like I've, what you guys were sharing, it's like, there are no answers to,

But there are just this process of continuing to ask good questions. That's the best you can do. Be awake, you know? Like, be aware. Well, yeah, well, that's the journey, right? That's the progress is, like, it's an ever-evolving question. And as long as you keep striving to answer it, that is the real work, right? Yeah. And another thing, you know, as we wrap this question up is that, I mean, honestly, do you feel that the world...

is benefited when you are a happy person versus or when you're unhappy? Like, do you provide more value to this world when you're happy or when you're unhappy? And let's think about it from that context. And if your answer is, I provide more value to this world when I am a happy person, well, then I think it becomes clear, chase happiness for yourself.

Because in turn, if you are happy, if you are truly happy, you end up providing more value to this world in so many countless ways that you can't even quantify. I would 99% agree with that. What's the 1% you won't agree? Well, no, I want to highlight the 99%. But Justin doesn't bring any happiness. Because it came from Justin. It doesn't bring any value. Because it came from Justin. I want to highlight the 99%. What I've seen, what I've observed in my own bubble of a world that I've lived in

the US and China, which makes me more accomplished than most people. No, I'm just kidding. Is that probably we're better off being more happy because I think that the unhappiness just fucks a lot of things up. Just in general, we could be more happy, okay? But does that mean there's not a room for unhappiness? No, because when I was listening to the Claire episode, Dr. Claire Tsao, psychologist in Shanghai, really smart person.

Lady. She was saying that like without sort of both sides, uh,

you can't really get that perspective. Without the full range of emotions. So I would say that like, yeah, obviously, like let's try to be happy because, or let's try to identify the circumstances when we're unhappy and we're just causing this ourselves and we're fucking everything up. It's like, be more specific on the situation, but also recognize that over time, there are certain unhappy moments that are maybe externally triggered or because of your own immaturity that you can learn from. And then those provide incredible learning moments.

Okay. Well, we kind of digressed a little bit from the original question. Yeah, I think we strayed really far. But it's okay. I think it kind of connects in a certain way. It's okay. It's okay. We have a few options to go with the rest of the show. So I have a list of quick fire questions. Ooh, quick fire questions. Let's do a wrap up. Yes. If you want to do that, we can move on with that list. And then also there's still, I think, many good questions. God, there's so many freaking questions. I know. How many pages is this?

Oh my gosh, don't scroll. I'm trying to find the question that I was looking at. I think let's do the rapid fire because then we can at least try to cover more people that sent in because...

Again, I want to reiterate, we appreciate everyone for writing in with their questions so much. We love the interaction. And it just tears me apart inside that we can't get to all the questions. Because some people wrote in with really heartfelt questions and things that they really want to get from us. And we can address those in later episodes, or even we might reply you directly in a private email.

But yeah, it was so thankful. - But they were really, they were so powerful. And like, if we didn't, there's so many people that, you know, most people were unable to acknowledge like your contribution, but believe me, like over the last few weeks, like we've gone through sort of every question, they've been really great reflection points. And they're also helping to number one, like help us reflect and then number two, to shape the direction of the show. - Yes. All right. - All right. Moving it on to quick fire questions.

Let's keep it quick, guys. Okay. Number one. Tell me about which episode is your most memorable episode. Starting from Howie. Oh, shit. On the spot? I like that. I like that, and strong. Oh, yeah. You don't know where it's coming from. This is pathetic, Howie. So one of the most memorable episodes I had was when we had Simon on the show, the colorist. Oh. Right?

Human Centipede. Yeah, oh my god. My mind was blown when he was telling me that he was doing the Human Centipede and the idea that he was staring at a screen of... I'm not going to talk about the movie. Dirty shit. Oh my god. We had the colorist that worked on all the Human Centipede movies and he was sharing his experience then. That was amazing. That was crazy. Any episode that was just like without Howie. Those are all my favorites. You're so mean, Eric. That's a good one. That's good. That's strong. Okay, next.

Hey, Justin didn't say it yet. For me, Subtle Art of Not Giving a Fuck. That was a turning point for me, personally. Most memorable. Yeah, you've made that really clear. Cavender. Cavender was the best. Oh, Ben Cavender was great. Cavender, Gavin Pratt. I want to get Ben back on the show. Like, Ben Cavender, that was a great episode. Anyway, go on. Okay, number two. K.

Can you, so can each of you describe the other two person? If you have, you can use an Avenger character just to describe the other two person. This doesn't sound like a short question. Eric's going to take a while. No, it's a quick fire. Eric is easy, dude. Two words. Hey, guys, guys. One at a time. Okay, starting from Justin this time. Okay. Oh my God. Howie, I'm going to go with what you said last time. Scatterbrain.

Okay. Scatterbrain and physically deteriorating. Okay. Those two things. Those things define him. That's horrible. This is getting as major as possible. They are horrible, Howie. So do something about it. I thought we were supposed to be Avengers. No, we're just the honest ring. We're going to be honest. Okay. Eric. Emotionally unstable. I'm just going off the top of my head. No filter. No filter. Emotionally unstable. Um...

Super critical. Okay. That's good. Okay, me? You really don't give a fuck. Okay. Howie, panic attacks, basket case. Justin, seemingly strong on the outside, but like a paper tiger on the inside. Okay. Howie. Howie. Justin is loyal and intelligent. Eric is super eloquent and a fine man. Fuck you. Okay.

Did you get a sense of sarcasm in that? Okay, all right. And why don't you do it now?

No, no, no, it's okay. Oh, ooh, ooh, it's okay, it's okay. She was really nervous for a second. Eric, yeah, he's the most badass motherfucker on the planet. Eric, he's eloquent and can be talkative at the same time. Baddest motherfucker on the planet. Ooh, here, here, here on that one. Wait, what did she say? I said Eric can be eloquent and then talkative at the same time. Oh, yeah. And Justin, lay back and then chill. You made a lot of funny comments. And then Howie...

Since I want to take your job, I'm going to say something negative. Just kidding. No comment. Wow. Everyone's just... There's only negative things. There's only shit on Howie's show? There's only negative things to say. I think Howie...

You are the balance of Eric and Justin. One day, get into those arguments. He's like our baby. If me and Eric had a baby, he'd be happy. No, you are the glue of the show. No, he's more like the judge. Not the judge, but like the... He's the buffer. Like, if it's like Israel and Palestine, he's like the actual buffer zone. The Gaza Strip. Yeah, Gaza. Moving on. What is the funniest comment from your followers?

Funniest. Eric.

Yeah, Eric's got a lover. Some guy got his comment. Andy. Andy. You remember the name. Yeah, Andy's like, I love you. Yeah, you have a admirer. Not even a secret admirer. Shout out to Andy. Andy, if you're listening, Eric's available. Yeah. No shame in that. I hope Andy is listening. No shame in that. Okay, funniest comments. There are two. I remember one comment we got on Instagram from a listener was saying, if The Honest Drink was a cult, I'd be their most loyal member. Yeah.

I thought that was hilarious. And a different comment we got was, I forget who it was from, but it was a comment saying, this is the third time I missed my Subway stop. Oh, I remember that one too. Yeah. And I relate to that because I've missed a lot of Subway stops listening to other podcasts. So I know what that feels like. Howie.

My favorite comment was Ha ha ha, I love it My favorite comment was 打卡 My favorite comment was like What? Justin, you're married? 那就算了吧 气死了,算了 Unsubscribe It's like, it's your loss Okay, moving on So, among you three Who speaks the most fluent Chinese? Eric

Eric. I would say Eric. Are you sure it's not you, Howie? I'm pretty sure. It's definitely not me. It's definitely not Justin. Okay. Well, since Eric, you get volunto, let's try a tongue twister in Chinese. Okay? Are you ready? Okay. That's not the one I'm going to test you on. Okay. Ni hao.

Try this one. 门上掉刀,刀刀掉着。 But say it fast. 门上掉刀,刀刀掉着。 门上掉刀,刀刀掉着。 刀刀掉着。 Okay, anyways. Oh well, now we know none of them is fluent in Chinese. What is it again? 门上掉刀,刀刀掉着。 门上掉刀,刀刀掉着。 门上掉刀,刀刀掉着。 Yes. Good. That was great. Is that close? I think I might be the most fluent one, guys. Welcome to the industry.

Let's go rapid fire. Come on. Okay. I love New Jersey. What part of New Jersey did you live in, Justin? And that is from... Well, I grew up in a part of Jersey that was called Wachung. It's Wachung, New Jersey. Sounds very Asian, Chinese. No, it's actually Native American. Oh. Yeah. Wachung. Yeah, Wachung is a Native American name. Native Americans used to live there back in the day.

It's a small town. Small town. Quick note, I am also from New Jersey, and I am from Bergenfield, New Jersey. That is definitely not a Native American name. Well, I'm not from New Jersey. I'm from a place called Sugarland. Texas. Sugarland. I'm going to combo a quick question because I think they kind of go together. So this is from HLY. Hi there. I'm quite curious. How do you guys make a living? Is the honest drink just your part-time job, the winters?

The one that kind of goes with this is, I remember one of your early episodes, you guys mentioned that you're open to have sponsors for the show. Has that happened yet? So I kind of think they kind of go together. About the financials. Eric, want to take this? Yeah. Sure. Sure. You guys love doing this to me. So we all have very different... No, just say the name of the company you work for. That's all. It's Rapid Fire. Rapid Fire. Rapid Fire.

We all have different ways of making a living. I have a corporate role, and I've been in this role for a long time. And no, I work for a great company. Eric works really hard. We can say it's a tech company, right? Yeah, I work for a really, really great company. Tech company. Yeah, technology. Yep. It's a great company. I've been there for a while. Yeah. It does all right. And what do I do?

Oh, what is Howie doing? You can answer for all of us. I think if anybody, Howie has said what he's done the most on this show. We're always talking about his work. Let me make sure I'm getting this right. So Howie has been mostly in the creative industry. He studied film at one of the top schools. I'm doing the whole credibility thing that you're telling me not to do. But sometimes it comes... No, it's not a qualifier. It's an enhancer and a booster, right? To elevate us. So anyways, Howie's...

Very, very creative. Went to the top film schools in the US. Went through his career in doing different things in production, advertising, PR, etc. But then now, in the last few years, has been chasing his dream, which is making films. And also, from a living perspective, he makes commercials for Fortune whatever companies. He's a director. That was the quick answer. He's a Dalian. No, but... But he enhanced me. Am I right? You enhanced me. No, but it's true.

You enhanced me. It's true though, right? Like you make a living, the making a living apart is making commercials for a living. I'm a director. Yes. That's how I make a living. But he's like a film director. Yeah. Yes. His next movie, Avengers 5, is coming out soon. Dune 2. Yeah. How many Oscars do you have? Five and counting. You remember The Arrival? That was kind of a shit movie with Denis Villeneuve. The Departure is coming out in a few years by Howard. That's my pen name. The Departure.

No, wait, wait, wait. Isn't his standout film, what's it called? Fade? Oh, Fade! Look up Fade. If anyone wants to know true art and cinema. If you want to know how to... It's Fade. If you want to know how not to make breakfast, watch Fade. Check it out. Fade by Howie. Justin. All right, this one's a tough one. Wait, I'm doing it. Oh, okay. Okay, go on. Go for it. Okay.

I would say that my perspective of Justin falls into sort of three time periods, okay? So the first time period was when Justin was in the U.S.,

And he was trying to figure out what he was truly passionate about, right? So he had a really good band in LA. He was a sous chef in a top restaurant. He was Puff Daddy's driver at some point. And through all kinds of different connections he had, he tried a lot of different things. And he got himself into some very interesting circumstances that most people wouldn't have the talent or connections to be able to do. Porn business. Yeah.

Yeah, we're not going to talk about that. But he's done some pretty crazy shit. And then I think the second period is, you know, like in China, he worked and then started his own venture and did that for a few years. And that was a pretty interesting adventure. He expanded in China, like did some pretty, pretty cool stuff.

And then now, in this third phase, he's got some pretty interesting real estate projects going on. But I don't know the details. Did I overshare? No, you didn't overshare. But I'm actually, I think, I felt like, I'm surprised, like, you knew actually more about my past. Dude, I love you, man. I fucking know your shit. High five, bro. I love you too, man. He watches all your porn films. Like, he watches all of them. He loves them. So, to answer the, whose question was it about sponsors? That was Shuzi.

- Oh, so we had two from this person. Okay. No, we do not have sponsors so far. This is purely out of our own interest and love. - And pocket. - And pocket. - It's not cheap. - We take out money to do this, yes. But we only take out the money because we love doing this so much. And we really appreciate all the listeners we have. - HLY, HLY was also the one. - HLY, yeah. The Honest Drink is a passion project. - Should we start a Patreon?

Or some sort of donation page. Seriously. We're groveling now, but like, okay, I will share this. I was talking to some friends. They have podcasts. There's this concept called Dachang.

where it's like patreon in china yeah yeah yeah and i mean at least it's like a kind of a source to kind of get equipment and just you know they can take care of just to cover some of the costs this is like a telethon i feel like like it's like let's not dwell too much on this but i think jerry do you remember the jerry lewis like muscular district it's like it's like a jerry lewis muscular muscular that is a very dated reference yeah yeah okay let's move on yeah

If people have ideas, though, let us know. Yeah, just give us your money, please. Shall we pick one more? That's the deeper one, and then... Yeah, I mean, we're kind of running short on time, right? One more, one more. Let me pick one here. So this is one from Sandra Chow. I was looking at the same one. Right, you've seen that, right? Sandra Chow, The Leap.

Is that how you pronounce it? Midlife crisis. I started to listen to this podcast because of this episode. When was the first time you guys felt midlife crisis? I don't want to reveal your age, but you're really, really young. I'm going to be... It's okay. She wrote it. Okay. I'm going to be 30 next year. Okay. I can feel peer stress. It might be midlife crisis. Maybe the society admires young success rather than the late bloomer. Yeah.

Wow. So third, okay, hold on. First of all, if you're going to be, if you're 29 now, you already feel like it's past your prime, it's midlife crisis. And people live to what, 85 now? Yeah, average in 80s. Like think about the societal pressure. So you're one third into your life. And you're already feeling, I'm in my midlife crisis. That's insane. Because when I was 30, I was not thinking that at all.

The idea that at such a young age, you're already feeling that pressure or stress of, you know, that possibility of having a midlife crisis because you're feeling you're not hitting the marks that you have, whether you, your family, or society has kind of put forth for you. You're not hitting those marks, so you feel like, oh my God, is my time over? Is it too late? Whether it's job, whether it's

Marriage. Or there's anything. Well, it only comes through comparison.

I feel like I think that's the big thing with the midlife crisis is that it's really spurred by us constantly comparing ourselves with others. Yeah. And like we've said this to death on this show. Well, she said it. I can feel the pure stress. Yeah. And especially when you look at social media, everyone's posting their best lives, their best moments. So it exacerbates the whole situation where you feel like, oh my God, everyone's so much further ahead than I am.

But honestly, the truth is everyone's just faking it until they make it. Everyone, no matter how successful they are. Honestly, I've talked to enough really successful people in my life where everyone is literally faking it the whole way through. No one has it all figured out.

I don't know. But the question is also, when did we start feeling the midlife crisis? Yeah, when did we feel... Have you guys gone through a midlife crisis yet? Because I've been open about mine. I did. Remember? Personally, I was when I had my big transition in life in my late 30s.

mid to late 30s. That's when you went out and made your film, Fade. Check out Fade, guys. Yeah, the ultimate breakfast film. And basically... A film about breakfast. Yeah, basically it was just... I actually had to cut ties with family. And so it was one of those things where I felt like...

I'm fucked. It's too late for me to do any type of career change. You know, it's too late. And I finally had to come to terms and be like, no, it's not too late. I'm just going to do it. I'm just going to do it. I am not too old. I'm just going to do it. And that goes back to some of the previous questions. Yeah, about age, yeah. About age and limits and going after what you want and compromise. Yeah. And...

And I think we had conversations in that moment of yours that you're describing where it was great in terms of even though you were sacrificing even some of the quality of the relationship with family members at that time, you put your foot down and you were like, no, this is something I have to do. And I have to do it for me. Yes. You know? And...

I feel like that was such a pivotal moment in your life and that worked out for the better. And that to me is a lesson right there, painted right there. Like sometimes you just have to break out of the pressures you're being given by family members, by society, whatever the case may be, and just put your foot down and be like, no, fuck it. I got to do this and I'm going to do it because I need to do this.

And I think there's a lot of virtue in that. I think there's a lot of courage in that. And we have to stop thinking about working on ourselves as a selfish thing. We have to stop putting it through that lens. Working on yourself first is probably one of the most productive things you can do because like we said, when you're happy, when you are a better person, you produce better things, right?

And you get better results. And part of that self is doing whatever you can, whatever it takes to push out that outside noise, right? That instinctual reaction to compare yourself to your peers. Because a lot of midlife crisis is about age. Oh, yeah. It's about time. It's about time, right? So for me, it was about like, am I too old to do that pivot to change? But I also feel like that...

that pressure, that pressure of age or time is running out worked for me because it put me to that edge. It put me to that edge to make that decision and to say, fuck it, I have no other options. Go. So to me, without that midlife crisis, I might still be swimming in mediocrity and unhappiness. Utilize the pressure of age to maybe motivate themselves to do what they want to do just like you. It's like, don't wait. Yeah, don't wait. Do it now.

And I think that's a lot about what we preach on this show as well. And this reminds me of something Gabor said to me on the first episode we ever did with them is, if you look at a lot of the past presidents, they achieved their most momentous, their most defining achievements. Some of them when they're 70 freaking years old, right? Yeah.

And so when you put it in that perspective and you look at a lot of these great world leaders or maybe not so great world leaders too, you look at their biggest achievements and it came in really late in life. And that puts a lot of things into perspective too. And it's always important to know that it's never too late to make something of yourself. - Eric, I don't think you've ever mentioned a midlife crisis moment.

Have you had one? I've got a strong point of view on this one. Really? I'm going to fire away. Great. I'm excited. Finally, finally. I'm excited. Well, you know, I just, I collect all of the nuggets and I just, you know, I always. You regurgitate. Then I bunk high. No, I synthesize. Like a mother bird. I synthesize, augment, and then, you know, and then mic drop. That's my style. He's a mic dropper. I'm a mic dropper. Yeah. I know how my fans. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you all. I know how my fans.

The one guy. The one guy that really loved it. Okay. 100th episode. No, if you're, like, if you are in particular, I know, like, you're all fans of our show, but if you're in particular a fan of Eric, you know, yeah, give us a shout out. Yeah. I want to let these boys know that. So Justin doesn't play Thanos and cut the show to 1.5 people. Okay. All right. So going back to the question, so we have a young person here.

Oh, lady, Sandra. And, you know, she was asking about the midlife crisis. Like she's starting to feel like stress from her friends and peers. She feels like it might be a midlife crisis. Society admires like young success. We're talking about achievement rather than late bloomers. Like we're talking about presidents that are like 70 years old and she's like not even 30 yet. And she's already worried about these things. Right.

I do want to connect a couple of dots. So if we look at Sandra, like, and we kind of maybe like assume some of the pressure she's facing, okay. Marriage might be one of them. I don't know. Right. I mean, at that age, like there was a question earlier career, like, I mean, it's a very competitive environment. China is an awesome, awesome place. It's kicking ass. Yeah. There's another side to it. There's a lot of expectations there. Right. So there's a societal expectations there.

We've talked in previous episodes about, you know, the family. Like, we're much more intimately connected to family here. Like, in America, it'd be like, fuck off. Russell Peters is like, fuck you, dad. Yeah. Right? But in China, like, you can't tell your family to fuck off. So I think that, number one, these are all amazing questions, and they converge, right?

they really converge on the question of like, what are your values and what type of life you want to lead. And how far will you go to try to chase those values? Exactly. Yes. So my first thought on midlife crisis is that this notion of a crisis in your life, whether it's midlife, like you're seven years old and you go to a new preschool, this notion of crisis is

we can view it as hopefully a positive disruptive force to keep you on track based on your values. And I think that this check-in for Sandra is that listen to where the voice is coming from. So you're feeling this tension, you're feeling this crisis. This crisis will happen many times in your life when your internal compass and values conflict with society's compass and values.

how faithful you've been to your own internal compass of what you want to do and what values want to lead. And this tension, and we're always kind of facing it. So this crisis is great because it's a positive disruptive force that helps keep you on track, but you really need to understand where is this voice coming from? Is it external? All your friends are this and that, and you haven't achieved that yet, or you don't feel like you've been following the values that

are important to you, right? So that's the first point. The second point, and I heard this quote on a couple of different podcasts, and so I don't know the original source. I thought it was really brilliant. It's just something we should all write down and think about because it's really deep, is we all have two lives. The second begins when we realize we only have one. And that's really profound. Like, so whether you're 29 or you're 19 or, you know, 39, you're

Or 50. Or 50, 59. We only have, we have two lives and like, but you don't actually start living the second one until you realize like what your values are and that, you know, there's decisions that you need to make. So I think like one of the things, the saboteurs we've talked about, I feel like if you measure yourself against other people's achievements, like,

you're setting yourself up for failure because like everyone lives in an individual life with like, you know, like where you grew up and, and watch watch on or Bergen field or sugar land. Our, our, our paths are so, so, so, so unique and to just like on paper, compare them and then feel bad about that. It's not doing yourself a service. And I ask maybe everyone, it's like, well, okay, let's say that you have already achieved. Okay. So Sandra, you're 29. Um,

What if you already achieved everything? So every, you're like number one, you're like the most badass person. You've already done everything. You've gotten your MBA, you're married, you have like two kids, you're the CEO of a company, all this stuff. Okay. Are you happy? Like, like, what are you going to do now?

And so I feel like sometimes we put too much importance on our achievements and not enough importance on our character and on our purpose. Because the achievement is just totally being driven by what someone else did. Like how many times you open up like WeChat or Instagram or, you know, like Xiaohongshu.com.

And like someone does something that you didn't do. And that's human nature because we all belong in this survival of the fittest hierarchy. So it's like, oh, they made this dish on Xiaohongshu. They did this. I got to do that. It's totally random. And I think we need to anchor ourselves to like what our purpose in life is. And if you're going to go tomorrow, like, are you going to be worried about what you achieve today? Are you going to like fucking have a good time?

So like I'm having a good time on this show. I'm so glad we argued in the beginning and proven that our friendship is like super duper resilient. And like we can, you know, like basically yell at each other and tell each other to F off and still have the friendship. And I'm happy that we can get together because that's fucking what matters. Because I know when I'm like 90 on my deathbed, I'm going to be proud of the fact that I had

you know, this friendship from the Honest Drink. But like all the other shit, like how many burpees that I do, how fast that I run the Spartan race, who gives a fucking shit? Yeah. All right. All right. It's been said. Okay. All right, Mr. Last Word. Oh, am I Mr. Last Word now? You're always the last word and the first word. And do you notice like they have this thing going back and forth. I'm happy to be in the back. I just want to answer one more quick fire one from Taekongderen.

You ever have identity crisis as Asian American? Yes.

That's the answer. Yes. Yes. Yes. My answer is also, yes, I did not realize it until I moved here. Yeah. And the same thing. I mean, we've talked about this so many times, right? And then I'll add, I love being in China, but when I go back to the U.S., I'll love being there because I'm more comfortable with myself and I'm able to embrace everyone's differences more easily. And I'm not going to view everyone as looking at me that I'm different. Mm-hmm.

There's so many more questions. Thank you to every single person that wrote in. We read and received all the questions. But I'm really proud of this, guys. I'm really proud of this. And I think as long as we continue to have fun with this, I think that's what it's all about. Yeah, I'm very happy to be a part of the first 100 episodes. And wish you guys luck in the future.

And I'm really looking forward to listening to you guys as a fan. So you can listen to my new podcast called The Brutally Honest Drink. All major podcasts. I will say, number one is that I'm eternally grateful to both of you.

for getting this project off the ground. You know, there's so many things in life that we wanna do and we have all these ideas in our head. And, you know, I can't say that sometimes like I'm the most action-oriented person. This is something that I really, really enjoy doing. I'm internally grateful for you guys to put all of our strengths together

and do something that only we could do. I'm really proud of the work and I hope we could do another 100 episodes because it's made a positive difference in my life. And the second comment I will share is for everyone else who could probably relate to me and say, you have all these ideas in your head, but it's so daunting and I don't know where to start and it's too big of a thing, I can't do it.

you can do it. Just start small, find some friends that have that common interest, like that have different strengths than you do, and that can make up for your weaknesses and just do it. You will, you will really be sort of grateful that you've done something like that. And so I just, I'm eternally grateful because you guys have helped me do something that I don't think that I could have ever done on my own.

That's beautiful, man. Yeah, let me pour you guys out some more whiskey. Okay, we got a drink to this. And we got cheers. And one final toast here. Hold on. Pour you guys out. Oh, he can't seem to drink because of his gout. Again, physical deterioration. All right, guys. Here's to... He's got no water either. Come here. He's got nothing. He's got nothing going. I love you, Howie. Here's to 100 more. Let's go, guys. The Honest Drink. Cheers. Cheers. Cheers.

All right. That was our 100th episode. I am Justin. And I'm leaving. And I'm... No, I'm sad that you're leaving, Howie. I'm Eric. I'm Ant, your new host. All right, guys. That's it for today. Be good. Be well. Bye. Bye.