836: The Big Rethink
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A quick warning, there are curse words that are unbeaten ed in today's episode of the show. If you prefer a beeped version, you can find that at our website. This american life at org, for three weeks, joe biden said, is forced fully as human being possible, could say that he wouldn't step down after three weeks IT was this aggageers ing drip, drip, drip of people trying to get them to reconsider. And the voters around the country wondering if he was going to reconsider bed by a steady stream of daily news stories, the red tea leaves, and play to electron microscope, to the tiny describes of evidence, looking for any miniscule signs indicating that maybe I could happen, maybe bad, would rethink things. Democrats wondering what IT might take to change by his mind.

Meanwhile, over in the other half of the country, in rates state america, through a public national convention, people who had changed their minds and reconsidered firmly held convictions were big part of the festivities down, a trump picked his vice president, a man who once said about him, my god, wouldn't idiot jd vans nicki hay, who once called trump unhinged, and other former trump rivals, people who once even like they hated trump, spoken out against them, took the stage to show how they reconsidered. Even trump himself. The centuries of the whole thing seemed to be presenting himself as a changed man.

Somebody would reconsidered who he wants to be in the wake is near assassination presented a notably gentle, her united, not divider sider themselves. All this reconsideration, of course, was in the service of getting the swing boaters of the swing states to do some reconsideration of the round, but who they might be picking for president this fall. As feel like the areas thing in the world is to witness somebody actually changing their mind.

You really mean change your mind about something big. Some fundamental belief. May I know what happens, right? Most of us know people who were never going to have kids who decided going to go forward, or we know democrats to become republicans.

We pro drivers with which road choices when that happens. It's a sizing thing and that point of transition. And you're liping from one way of seeing things to the new way. I say weird, awkward, ard thing to live through.

And so a lay on our show in this moment when joe biden seems to you have reconsidered some of his most deeply held ideas about himself and his chances in this election. We destroy the people, rethinking some big basic beliefs they've taken for granted, trying to a new attitude toward the world. And we watch how that goes for them. From bb easy chicago to this american life, i'm a glass stay with us.

In faded, the union, other people who rethought their feelings about Donald trump at the republican convention in a walking this week, there was one guest for him. The rethink has been especially dramatic. And that show brian, now I phone democrat for my suits.

China brian is head team to union, one point three million truck drivers, rail, air or transportation delivery workers of lots of jobs. The enduring biden in twenty twenty and china brain was out the R, N, C, to give a speech, big speech, actually, the keynote speech on the first night of the convention. I should take, the tech union president hasn't spoken to the R, N.

C. I ever before the entire history. The union, because maybe this is obvious. Republicans been the party of big business and generally pretty opposed to organized labor. So we chase tells how this played out.

Here's how weird IT is that this guy, shanno brian, is at the r and sea in the first place. President biden, a democrat, calls himself the most pro union president in history. There's reasons he bailed out union pensions.

The teamsters were pushing for that. All his major infrastructure bills have included money and benefits, specifically for unions. You walk to pick up line with the united auto workers.

He gave his first twenty twenty campaign speech from a teams hall download trump has a record two as a republican president, of rolling back regulations that protected unions, pointing supreme court justices who ruled against unions, and of course, hiring and on union workers when he was a real estate developer, notoriously stiff his workers out of overtime. Both of them talk about loving american workers, obviously, that politics, but their policies are very different. So when teamsters president shane brian showed up at the republic and convention this week, he felt like an outsider right away. Or maybe you wanted to make the point that he was an outsider right away.

some back stage and the rehearsal the night before we came in. They just want to to show us the to set up at the stage. So they're .

telling shown how to walk across the stage to the podium. He's going to .

be the keynote speaker one. And so they said you to do a dog leg right when you come on at the stage and you come down. But the gentleman said, you know golf, you know how you do a dog like, great.

I said, look in my business, if you are a good golfer, you're A A bad representative. I don't golf. So he said.

just make like a little ark. This is a example of here.

here I am, hopefully deliver you the most powerful speech for american workers. And i'm debate, and what a dog leg is, what the person? So what? Actually, I was typical to my nature. I get distract and instead talking to him about how union officials shouldn't golf because they should be all working.

And john bryan seems to be here too. Walk a fine line basically with republicans. He's like, look, this is a major prime time slot where you don't expect to hear from us, where we get to talk to people who aren't usually listening.

He describes as mission, as enlightening the republican national convention on how important workers in unions are to this country and maybe makes some new political allies. He's been on this charm offensive with republicans for months. He went to my olaj.

He met with trump, took a thumbs up picture with him. He's been meeting with republican senators, including hard line conservative josh holy, who ended up walking union picket lines. Alberan told me, we ever really diverse union and all the ways, including politically, a big chunk of his membership supports truck, and he's here partly for them.

But some of organized labor is not happy with him at all. It's hard to overstate. Appalled, enraged, apple plastic, horrified, a best present of the teams. Er's union, publicly called IT uncasing able.

So, you know, as I think of all brian going to the R N. C. And doing his song and dance, I got to go, what's the message?

This is rick Smith radio show. He's a thirty five year teter and truck driver. He thinks so brians just going to be part of the trump campaigns long running political theater of being a party for blue collar workers without making any actual policy that helps those workers to him it's like, what's a brian gonna for this?

You know the reality is a shot of brian is going to be their whipped boy ah they are going to use him and and my teamsters union as their hood to ornament as they drive their anti union policy truck right over the top of working people and the reality is gentle bryan is gna be there dancing show pony, whether he wants to be or not and they're going to write him until till the election day because what they understand, what trump understands, what the R N C gets by giving him this this platform is his, a lot of his members vote for republicans.

This is making IT. Okay, this is going. yeah. Don't worry about your job. Don't worry about any of that, that it's okay where it's fine.

So to see how the song and dance goes over, I pick my spot, way a pie in the stands and sit with some delegates. I find tag gillman this delegate for michigan, I know, and make him watch jono brian speech with me. Tags, retired a navy vet. He was in a union decades ago to get involved with the republican party a few years ago, and he's organizing a county commissioner race. Now we're chatting.

I think, yeah, that has never .

heard of shanto brian and does not care about him. IT seems all he knows about teamsters is weird. Did the mafia bury Jimmy hfs body? We're waiting for a brian spot in the lineup when suddenly and unannounced guest appears.

I just in the building, trump himself .

that scheduled to speak shows up on screen with a dramatically bandaged year. It's the first one of the convention, our first time seeing him in his first time in public since the assassination attempt. The crowd is losing in the cameras, following him down the hall toward the convention room, like he's a fighter headed into the rain. Look, IT is there .

he might be. Come out here are you are deep. The guy might not be talking.

The crowd is Jones zy for trump, but trump does not take the stage, he said in the audience, and instead the guy who appears .

on stage is country singer. Proud of an american. And then.

yeah, yeah, yeah yes, proud to be in amErica is trumps theme songs this campaign. It's generally a signal he's about to take the stage. Only this time the singer himself is here live, giving a sort of improve to prayer benediction as images of trump waving and grim sing appear on screen, turning the weight .

sattled the year from side to side to be the next the crowd sing.

proud to be american with enthusiasm, the chance for truth. But from still does not take the stage. Instead, this random guy limps out and stands there.

One of the many regular american is on the program who feel hurt by bitings policies. He's dubbin screen as a grandfather. You've got ta feel for him.

The crowd is chanting we want trump right into his face. And another Randall, the same story of not being able to afford stuff. Then Amber rose had to describe model and influencer, talks about seeing lay and voting republican.

SHE does never forever at you. Overall.

the vides are way off trump still in the room. People are clamoring for him to speak. And then finally, the last speaker of the night, instead of trump, it's the president of the teamsters union, the outsider guy. The person who doesn't necessarily .

belong here is the my boss is my bus.

is probably a .

team of clearly a brian has some assumptions .

about union bosses to overcome with this crowd greeting .

delegates. And guess i'm sure to brian, general president of the international brother, lot of tapster's.

Okay, bigger plans. We just gets bigger.

And I am. Whether people like them or they don't like him and like to what happened to him on saturday, he is proven to be one top sob.

Biggest, the applause line of the night by far, like the Catherine sis of waiting for trump, is satisfied by this, a line that john will tell me he came up with red bt, wasn't on the teleprompter, who was just feeling IT my mission and delegate ted is cheering along with his military buddied from his concern babbles over.

This is huge. I mean, you're got all these different people that voted for joe and their families did come on out. Your speaker. This could turn out to be a told cut ticket in november.

Now the teamsters are not endorsing trump tonight. Sho bryant has been quite clear about that. But bob from his concern is just hearing the teamsters throw their weight behind truck. He's not paying close attention to the specifics of a shan is saying really and as he goes on, the speech does get much more specific and much less republican convention sounding. Basically, he throws long standing republican allies main days of the party under the bus.

But for a century, major employers have waged a war against labor by forming corporate unions of their own. We need to call the chAmber of commerce in the business value tables what they are. They are unions.

Here's another fact. That's right. Is that right? And the one hundred percent correct.

he talks about major american companies.

That is great examples of entrepreneurship, like at a typical republican venture. But as great examples of corporate greed.

companies like amazon are big in most national economies. Amazon is valued over two trillion dollars. What is sickly is an amazon is has a bad. Any national legion, amazon soul focus is on lining its own pockets.

People are like, am I with this? Companies are bad. It's a little luck, ward. But then, no, brian pulls out a magic word that sells in this room.

Aletes have no body. Aletes have no nation. Their loyalty is in the baLance, in the star Price at the expense of the american worker. I love this guy.

Yeah, I love this guy.

At some point, the crowd seems to hear themselves cheering wildly. F, or organized labor and against corporatist and IT does get a little more strange feeling in the room.

There are no consequence is for the company.

only the work rate to work, rate to work. Someone is heckling the teams president kind of wkly by screaming out the name of a policy that teams yers hate. Right to work is a shot directly into the heart of union's ability to organize.

It's at the very center of republican labor policy. Great to work allows workers to work in a union shop without having to pay union dues. Advocates of the policy say workers should get to choose what they want.

Unions hate IT because they say workers then get the benefits of the contract without paying for IT. IT undercuts their power. There's over one hundred and fifty republicans could sponsoring rate to work bills in congress right now.

Trump has said he supports right to work. Shao bryan continues to slam big business and among was expecting him to talk about burn's millionaire. Billionaire applies in the rooms getting weaker.

These companies often no real healthy shirts, no, no pay leave, relying on underfunded public assistants. And who puts the bill, the individual tax pair, the biggest recipient of welfare? This a CoOperations, and this rail, we must put work as first.

By the end of the speech, tad feeling about the guy he'd .

never heard of before, but I stuck around and listening.

thanks.

When I talked to bryan after the speech in the lobby of the grand defter hotel, I wanted to know if he felt what I was feeling about the awkwardness in the room, the uncertain silence when he started whaling on the chAmber of commerce. Big american companies. Did you feel a feeling in the room like this .

is .

going over weird? I mean, I felt I felt very comfortable. Um I knew that it's like anything else if you're in a crowd and someone's talking about the situation and you know you may think you are the subject of IT or you may think that pertains to you IT may be a little more more uncomfortable for them that I was for me overall.

he feels pretty great about the speech. He got his message out. He thinks that now he'll get calls from public ican legislators who weren't meeting with him before.

Like there's this one senate bill right now that the big unions are really fighting for. It's called the pro act protecting the right to organize act is all democrats. There's not a single republican sign onto that bill.

Yeah no yeah. But we're working on IT. Do you think .

you got some well, well.

IT the bill that's currently there, right? So if you know you're not going to get support is not going to pass, wouldn't IT make sense to figure out what could pass by partisan? yes.

Do you think you've got people in that room to .

reconsider?

I know that for a fact.

because of how the .

conversations give me an example.

I can not. But stay tuned. now.

The very next day, the teamsters announced there was a new cosponsor of the house version of the bill, a third republican house member from all. Again, because of the speech, we don't know. Rick smith, the thirty five year teams, sir, with the radio show, watch the convention, watch the speech from his union president and I all afterwards.

A, I fear he did everything that I I thought he was gonna because, look, I don't think anybody remembers what he says tomorrow, other than trips. A tough S L, V H. There may be a quote, but they're gna remember, is he was there for donal truck.

Rick saw Shawn.

Speech is just another piece of the political theater playing out of the R N cy more working man cosplay like trump s selection of J D. Vance as vice president. In his opinion, shao brian praised advance in a speech vance's brand is kind of made in amErica economic populism. He famously walked A U A W picket line in toledo.

I go back to this, this idea that there are republicans that support labor. You know, J D, vans walk a picket line. Yeah okay. He walked to pick IT life, but he doesn't support workers right to organize um and I know he'll give up on something here or there but ultimately this is a guy who's not a friend of labor uh and and IT IT seems simple to me these are the people who are going to put the final nail in the coffin of the labor move and I think he gave them the kind of father that they can use. It's like handy an x murder and act and that being surprised or what? What is trump all we said you about a snake biting you because a snake is a snake.

right? Yeah, the snake, the snake nature, right?

And this is that these people's nature, a bran's .

responses. Maybe the sneak is changing. We can make them change. Party's change can get things done if that's your uncompromising approach.

And you look at the democratic party twenty years ago as compared to now, I think we can all agree, has been significant change. Conversely, you look at the republican party twenty years and look at IT today, I mean, this been significant change.

So have to go back twenty years. In this case, with this election, you going to get the bide administration and the trump administration. And one is more pro labor than the other.

Doubt about that, and I can speak to that all day long. I mean, present by and fix pansies, a lot of work, passion ships, that infrastructure bill, all the stuff is no doubt. But that doesn't mean that we can't work. But than anybody else that doesn't have the same labor record, maybe maybe they can know obviously, if if they have the opportunity, they can do good things for .

working people as well. This sounds either wickedly pragmatic or hopelessly naive, but however much the democrats and joe biden have done for organized labor, the democrats could definitely lose in november. And trump, who was sitting right across the hall from a brian, a bondage, performing, watching him closely with that murdered year, he might be the guy i'll have to negotiate with.

So we chase is a producer on our show. Like to, I don't win, you know who july hasn't been so grateful. The democratic politicians who were out front before anybody publicly calling for president abide to drop out of the election have two hundred sixty democrats who sit in the house and senate, on which twenty one step forward, two, one has representatives and one senator for the first three weeks after the president to debate, the democrat governors, the former presidents.

But this small group, god, for biden to drop out over an army, was going to form behind them than a week past. And another week, and the begins did not show up. They hung out there by themselves.

Finally, the end this week, we heard about big names in the party policy, summer jeffreys, behind the scenes, urging the president to suicide. With that cover, going into the weekend, the number of the lawmakers started aging up very slowly. And finally, of course, job by and back out of the race.

But IT took over three weeks for things to get to this point. So what was I like for the people stuck your next out and waited well conclusion and said morton, great to talk to me about all that democrat for macos rising star in the party, that presidential run to himself in twenty twenty former marine to serve four tours in iraq. Thank you.

A OPPO on in the first company to enter baghdad years ago, he did a memorable interview on a program. But this interpreter he worked with them got close to in iraq when get up, coming to the states and giving in multis childhood home with his parents basically became part of their family. I wanted to get a asylum because of the death is against him requirements with americans joe biden, tech ages and set multi back when molten first around of congress, twenty four teen biden was vice president.

Blind baccus do rally endorsing ing him. And they wrote a car together where moton says the vice president offered him half of his peanut ter and jelly. He was not sure if you're supposed to saying no to that over from the vice president.

So he said, yes, month's age and million experience one says bid's told him a few times he reminds him of some bow. What I spoke this past monday live fifteen to me. The story of turning is back on joe biden starts, of course, on debate night.

Well, I think, like most americans, and I felt the debate was an unmitigated disaster for president and biden mean, we all remember the times he couldn't keep his train of thought. He lost his place. He seemed in coherent.

I thought one of the most remarkable moments was when he literally took our best issue, abortion, and pivoted immediately to our worst issue, immigration. I mean, you almost couldn't make IT up. I I want to ask .

you a question that that I worry might be a little awkward for you to answer, and I hope you can answer IT honestly. The side of president biden that we also on television at night during the debate during D. C.

You hear a lot of things, i'm sure. Had you seen that side of him before that night? Had you heard about that side of him before that night? Is that something people talk about?

Yes, yes. IT is. I've seen the present fairly regularly as a member of congress, although he does feel like his staff is hiding him far more than they used to. But i've seen a dramatic change, in particular over the last several months. I saw that the White has Christmas bAllen. He looked older and failure, but he was excited to see me, you know quickly recounted things we've done together what not um then I saw most recently, just a few weeks ago, enormity for the adest anniversary of d day. He was speaking with a small group of us and the change was pretty dramatic.

How so well IT .

was more like the things that we saw in the debate. Not that bad, but more in that direction.

Like I am having a hard time summoning the words for .

things more like that. yes. But as someone who's been a very long time joe biden fan, as someone who's admired him, as someone who's been a mentee of his IT was IT was hard to see and IT was concerning to the point where, although I don't think there's a single american who expected what we saw the night of that debate, I wasn't entirely surprised.

So when we came back to the house floor the next day, everyone was sharing the same of you. I didn't speak to anyone who thought that was OK other than speaker policy, who just said why I don't know that we can judge a campaign by one debate. But everybody felt he had to say that party readers are in a little bit different position. But all of us in the ranking file thought IT was a total disaster. And I think most of us were clear that the only way forward for democrat to have a chance in this election is to get a new nominee at the top of the ticket .

next three days. Milton says he tried to call everybody he knew in the White house anybody close to the inner circle to express his concerns about the president's performance in the path ahead.

That made a lot of phone calls, and I got nothing in response. Now i'm not offended by that. I don't want to come across this you thinking that the White house should return my phone calls, but given the circumstances, you'd expect some low level aid to just give me a call and say we've heard your concerns. Here's what we're doing about them. But I was just a wall of silence.

What does that say to you?

IT said to me that they are not taking this seriously. We needed to hear a new plan. And first, you just simply need to hear that they're being honest about the situation in hand.

But I wasn't hearing any that. When I came home to mass acute tes, I held a zoom meeting with a lot of local democratic officials. And these are people who tend to be very establishment players.

They want to stick with the status quote by a large. So I expected the majority of them to be in favour of biden remaining on the ticket. I'd say I was about eighty percent in favour of his stepping aside. That was powerful as well.

It's five days after the debate, before the first democratic lawmaker calls for bide and to step down day later, a cycle does that. Same night, mountain releases a very polite, pretty heady statement saying, I have grave concerns about president by instability to defeat downed trump, then going on to say, if the president can demonstrate that you can do a Better job prosecuting the case against trump, quote, we should have all viable options on the table. So that goes out.

But then later that night, I showed my statement to a friend was visiting a marine in this great friend of mine, who I trust for advice.

You read IT in this, said, what are you trying to say? Well, i'm basically saying that he should step aside and he said, well, one or you just say, IT says, and I gave him this long explanation for why being polite was the appropriate thing to do here in, and actually more likely to result in mission accomplishment. Let's be respectful of the president and push him gently in the right position, not be so explicit.

But I thought about IT a lot that night, and I woke up thinking about IT the next morning. And I decided, if I honestly think he should step aside, then you know what I should just say IT. And so the next morning, on the one interview I did at a local M P R station.

W B B R.

only we are talking about the statement. I just simply added those few words. He should step .

aside that south morton became third democrat. The man, the president step down. He don't me. He didn't expect tons of his colleagues to join him and follow suit, even though so many agreed the biden should step aside. That's just how congress works. He says he is in other situations where his colleagues agree on important stuff behind the scenes, but don't take a public stand.

I didn't Frankly expect a lot of people to jump right in with me, but I mean, I am sorry with that.

And so what happened that watching the news, I really wondered if for somebody like you, if, after making a statement like that, you're walking through the holes of congress, you're going down to the four, are you like a para? Or people not meeting your eye?

What what like? Well, was interesting. I was very curious what would happen the first time I came back to washington and walked out onto the house floor for votes that evening, and I did seem like people were just avoiding me, like they didn't want to be caught in a conversation. But IT was totally different as soon as I walked into the cloakroom. In other words, away from the reporters in the T, V, cameras, and people had a lot of nice things to say.

He says he did try to babies in these colleagues to never come forward public also. And if you did, generally, most did not. And why not fear? Best I can tell you, they were scared of checking off the president, his team of going against democracy establishment, sticking the next out.

The fear is not entirely unreasonable. Measure in congresswoman Hillary, Scott ton was kicked out of a democratic party planning meeting to coordinate get out the vote efforts because political reported, the meggan state democratic party didn't like the fact that he called on president biden to step down. Modern told me.

The meantime, he heard anybody make any kind of principled argument. Again, speaking out was at a meeting of democratic caucus. This democratic members of the house they met twelve days after the debate to discuss biden.

People who are concerned about the chaos are suppose of chaos of what might come next. People who were unsure whether this should go directly to vice president Harris or should be some sort of an open mini primaries, James carvel and jim cliver have suggested modern .

spoke at that meeting, and afterwards he says colleagues who were not sticking the next up publicly continued to tell him that they liked what he was saying, doing in public. Do you feel impatient or frustrated with them?

Yes, yes. I mean, now be honest, look, I know people have very different political backgrounds and constituencies to represent. I know some people are hearing more folks back home who just want buying to stay in race. At least some guessing that they do.

And what does you read of the politics of this? Like you're you're in a safe uh, democratic district or pretty safe democratic district. Is this good for you politically? Like calls and emails and texts stuff to your office or they mostly people supporting you coming on saying this about president.

Interestingly, the calls and messages we've received from people in the district are very supportive. It's just thank you for saying what we all saw. But there seems to be some kind of organized campaign nationally to attack me because a lot of the messages on social media, on twitter and to our office that come from outside the district have been highly critical way.

Do you think it's possible that your own party or your own president is organizing people to to to eat you online?

I mean, that's pretty standard practice. I think I don't know if that's exactly what's happening right now or it's just you know self organizing groups or even twitter boss. I mean, I don't really know. We haven't spent a lot of time digin into IT for .

a lot of us reading news reports during the three weeks before president biden dropped out as a day out on a president biden cap, insisting they didn't think you go asked any ground in the race. He wasn't to listen anybody but himself on this. Genes of them actually leaving the race seemed to get more, more remote. But this past monday, congress mountain told me that from where he said, everything was still very much an open question, even after the association attempt down on trump that photo with fist in the air.

I mean, look in from mineral perspective. In the phone calls, i've received its intensified calls for present by in the step aside, it's going to be even harder for democrats to win after that attempt to assassination. And so how do we increase pressure on the White house?

I understand that you want a phone call that present, but was on this weekend. What can you say about that?

IT was a zoom meeting, and he was speaking with the new democratic coalition. And well, there a few dozen of us on with him. Now i'm not onna share details of a confidential meeting, but i'll just say that I was discouraging.

IT left me feeling a firm of my position and felt like things are bad in getting worse. I mean, this this was not a high stakes debate. This was just a low stakes conversation with a bunch of fellow democrats. But IT didn't go terribly well .

for the president has. so.

IT just seems like he's not taking our concerns seriously, making a lot of excuses. We know on the one hand, exciting polls that say he's doing Better while dismissing all the bad polls by saying polls don't matter. I'm just continuing to refuse to answer this question about how are you going to turn things around her.

So as we record this is monday to five fifteen th, nineteen members of congress and one senator are with you basically in total calling for president by to step down. And then the rest of the democratic party elected officials are on the other side. How is that feeling? Well, first.

all that's just not an accurate characteristics. Ninety plus one are public. The majority are with me.

And so therefore, how does he feel? He feels frustrating. Can I ask you like IT?

Or are you in a sort of perverse situation where when you watch the president now on TV, you're sort of hoping for him to slip up? Like if he slips up more, it'll speed. No, no, no. On the path towards having to .

step down IT took is an interesting question. No one not hoping the person will slip up, but I am hoping that something happens to push him over the edge to just to make him realize the face reality. Here, I think it's important to say I read that that I genuinely love joe biden.

He's been a great mentor to me. He's consistently given me great advice. I have nothing but good things to say about joe biden.

Is there some moment between you that especially stands out, do you think captures what is like being what IT was like in the past between you and him?

Present bike used to have me over for breakfast when he was vice president. And we decided as residents in course, breakfast was always scheduled for about an hour, and I would go for close to three, and he would regain me with stories from his time in the senate and the lessons that he's learned about politics over the years. I'd asked very serious questions, pose situations where I need a advice, and he genuinely took me under his wing.

IT felt like he was invested in me personally. Now there are hundreds of people in politics who know joe byand Better than I am, still relatively new to this whole thing. But I like them a lot. I could tell they cared.

knowing him to the degree that you do. Are you surprised that if you can keep up.

He's incredibly to natural, but I also .

know he's .

dedicated to our country. And there's a well warm phrase in the marines that they try to drill into you day after day in training, which is it's not about you. And that's my fundamental message to present by in, sir, this is not about you.

You're amazing president. You've been an incredible senator. You've done so much for the united states of america. And the best thing you can do is a step IDE and give us just a little bit Better chance at the feeding down on trump waiting this election.

Complishment south milton for massage sets game we spoke on monday well before the president decided to step down.

Going up typing with your pinkies. Now IT has the power to make you rethink everything about your own sister. We have a true life example.

That's a minute, gaga. Dio, when our program continues. American life, mara gas, today's program, the big, we think, stories of people reconsidering something fundamental about themselves and the way they see themselves.

And what happens next. We've arrived to a tree of our show. Actually, anything you can do, I can do backwards.

Okay, so in this time, a country defining decisions, we cause our show. At today, we had another story of critical importance about two sisters and their pinkies. A story on the Baker stumbled on.

I was chatting with a friend of a friend, though he kish left sky at a bar when SHE casually mentioned he was about to attempt to break the world record for a speed typing my alphabet, sing only her pinkies IT took me a minute process. There's a world record for typing with your pinkies. How do you even know that a thing? Where does that idea even come from? And that's when. So I said.

my sister, I stole IT sisters .

so twisted, right? My sister has something, and I wanna take IT from her. Here's how IT all started one day though.

Is this your allies? A text to her? This, L L I don't know you heard, but I broke a role record tonight time typing out of that backwards with my pinky fingers. L L I didn't six point three one seconds and the record is nine point six five.

My next text were L L what that's so bizarre and cool that I can do IT in six thirty I am gonna ruin your night.

Wow, so it's ort of instantaneous your desire to take this record from her?

Yeah, guess so. And I was joking, but I was coming from a true place of, like, I really do bad. I could do IT like, should I know I shouldn't unless.

So though he opens her laptop and gives IT a try, starts typing the alphabet backwards with her pinkies, she's not great, but she's improving rapidly and live texting a lies as SHE gets Better.

And SHE said, if you keep practicing, I bet you can get IT. And I said, I think I could too, but I would feel like an asho. ll.

SHE said, they have the same one for alphabet forwards. The record is five, one, seven seconds. And I said with pinkies, that would be kind of sick if I got forwards and you've got backwards. L, well, got to throw the l to soft in IT.

It's always though I write them. And there are decided that he would go for trying to beat the record for typing me alphabet your pinkies forward like she's not dethroning .

her sister and taking her record because to me that was like a waited just ever so slightly sidestep the idea of, uh.

common for her gig. And did you think like, do you think that was gonna work? Do you think that was believable?

Um no.

There's a specific kind of mind game endemic to sisterhood. And I want to use this stupid pinky thing to examine that has something so small can blow up because of deep stuff from the past, like in zo's case, from her perspective, allies has always been upstaging her. They're both just a few years at a college.

But allies is already a software engineer with a high paying job. Zai and nani alisa travels the world zae bd watches vender pump er roles analysis, always racking up some new achievement. Like SHE only came up with the idea to break the world record because he needed something to do.

After running her first half marathon where a zi filled left behind in life, SHE moved to L. A to become A T, V writer, but hasn't had the confidence to try yet. And this leads me to the second thing you need to know.

The day O I got the text from eliza IT was a big day for zoe. Just that afternoon. He had finish four months of treatment in a super intense eating disorder program .

like i'm talking, eating all my meals in the company of, like, a therapies basically, or a nutritious ist. And now I was like, okay, like, now it's time to work myself back into the real world.

Does IT feel like she's like rubbing her life like, like in your face.

I for, yes. I mean, for a few good minutes, I was like, I was just kind of like this. This was my like, I felt really proud of myself. Forgetting through treatment, I felt like I had just a kind of had my own accomplishment.

And that's when record scratch SHE got the text from eliza and photos. Eliza was surrounded by friends. Everyone's raising their pinkies and .

celebrating. And i'm sitting alone on my couch. No one is around me. I'm just like sitting kind of stewing in my own emotions.

Um so I was a little bit yeah I was a little bitter. I was like, doesn't SHE know it's my last day of treatment like, doesn't SHE know how horrible the timing of this is. I just was bitter as, just like, congratulate me. This is like, this is my moment. This is most to be my thing.

So so he finds a typing speed website that can time her and starts rage typing with her pinkies. To give you an idea of how that sort this looks, hold up your pinkies like doctor evil, and try to type anything now, try to do IT faster now, faster now, repeat that for months. Insane, right? But though he became completely fixated on winning.

Zi analyzer, or step sisters. When zoe was eight, her dad metallizing mom, and within a couple years he lived with a liz's mom and a liza, though he would visit every other weekend. Though he was already self conscious about her weight, her dad was always honor about IT. And right away SHE started comparing her body to allies, us. allies.

IT always just seemed to come naturally to um SHE was always athletic SHE like grand track. I felt like eliza was the daughter that my dad dreamed .

of for desert. He might serve zoey fruit well, allies have got pie theyll be little critical comments. So he's dad had been fat, lost weight, his senior europe school, and felt like IT made life so much easier.

He was helping soa, but now sees how wrong headed all that was. But as a teenager, zoe decided that since a liza is thin and gold grades and everything seemed easy for her, that allies, ed, I was the favorite, and SHE was more of a burden. All these past wounds ready to rip open with one ill time text.

All this from pinky world record IT is all connected, but IT is pretty wild. That stuff is coming up.

Six months go by and zoe's getting faster by the million. Second, early on, SHE double checks with the lizza. Are you sure you OK with this? No aliases is like, yeah, share. So though we trains on finally, she's ready to go .

for IT to officially break the record.

though he asked to video her tempt, break the record and sended into guinness. And so on the day of her first attempt, SHE invited friends over.

I wore like sweat bands around my head and my wristers because I was like my athletic a limpy an event.

I get a rocky moment.

Yeah, I was fully my rocky moment. And I should have gotten like tiny little sweat bands from my pinky. That was in this opportunity.

I did my little slate where I say, my name is vics. Left sky name is, i'm here in los Angeles, los angles, california. I am attempting to break the record for the fastest time to type the alcohol with the little fingers. Oh, when i'm here with my witnesses rebeca coaching. And then legally.

though, he goes up to her computer, holds her hands near, cracks her nuckles and muggles her fingers, arms up. R pinkies.

刚才 对 OK .

really .

okay。

Three, two, one, go. 真 你干嘛 你 干 啥 呢？

Four point six seconds. The record to b was five point twelve. After a few months, guinness writes her back. SHE was now the guinness world records timely link, though he calls up a lizer to tell her the good news, should let me sit in in record?

Yeah, no, I got the record. Um how do you feel about that?

I'm sad for you. Thank you. Yeah allies .

to congratulate late or but also says for me.

I really over the whole market thing, to be honest for me I was like this thing what like nine months months inside I did. And so i'm very over. I'm excited for you.

I don't really care anymore for my perspective. I do what I do. So was just just something going to do. And so doesn't really mattered to me and you more. All the lake, I don't know IT just depends like what I meant to you I think could have been IT was different for you, but for me and not worth of a wild. So yeah, it's very quickly for me, but for you you might be different .

turo turo.

I felt like I could hear the way deflection on the call he went from cheering and laughing to being ashamed of caring. This was such a sister counter attack. SHE seems so harsh. But when I SAT down with a lies that to talk about IT.

SHE was warm, self deprecating.

So I play the call for her and just asked her what was up with that. How do you think you sound in this?

Not great. I mean, I think I am defensive and defensive.

I thinks I like .

I don't even really cared league, but for you it's different. Oh, this matters to you, but IT doesn't matter to me for you, it's like it's good.

Here's the thing, I lizer the news that I was recording her. And in good dir fashion, she's said he was OK with IT. But SHE wasn't really so.

He was fluttered and uncomfortable, and he had other feelings too. This is so he has to take her down allies as noticed. And IT doesn't feel great if you look at the story from her perspective, allies a breaks the world record. And when he first text her sister, hey, I did this cool thing though these responses fuck your thing and like.

I guess I was just like, why is her first response like to compete with me and one at me? And I was just like inside of being happy for me, like he saw as this competition. And the first responses, like, I can do IT Better. This is this cool thing that I try to achieve and I were trying to beat .

IT yeah why you come .

in after me yeah and I think it's the fact that her first text after was like, I bet can do IT faster.

right? SHE didn't even say .

congratulations yeah so then it's like if that's where this is coming from like that feels her for the entire way was freed, was just doing IT Better than me allies.

I didn't say any of this to zoe though he felt like I was a dumb thing to get her feelings had over. So instead you text to zi I dario alex a says though I always trying to one up for this way, allies IT doesn't get IT you personally have never felt like you have been competing with .

so I not competing like to me, it's like not even comparable. I always admire the fact that like she's out in L I living her dreams and I just thought he is in a very different career path. But I always think like everything she's doing there is amazing. And she's married and SHE has a house .

yes though is married SHE live is in a nice house. SHE in her wife have a great relationship. Eliza hasn't yet checked off those big life boxes. She's also alza told me the performer of the family, the one who upstages her, plus there is the oldest. She's actually the big sister allies, is like you win.

I felt like he, like, said the town like he was player one on the wheel like he had to go the bathing first when we got home from the car, right? Not in any resent for way, just in like a that was the pecking order. You're the oldest sibling like that fault, right? So and I think he even said to me too, I think he said he felt like goes a point where I flipped and like to her.

I felt more like the older sister, but that never happened for me. I've always seen her as the older sister. I still look up to her a law.

I think I still really like like to get her approve. I don't if he said, but like actually someone made a comment about that recently in our family. But like, I like to get her approval. So to me, I always looked up to her and invited her, and I still do.

SHE told me SHE had no idea that the day SHE texted zoe about her world record was the day zoe and a treatment. And zoe never said anything. And SHE also had no idea that from the time they were kids, though, he felt inspired to her.

Yeah, that shocking to me.

shocking.

yeah. I mean, like, I just don't see myself in that role like, well, like she's doing so much Better. I didn't realize he felt like that.

Eliza says that growing up, SHE had no idea, as so I thought allies a was the favourite, the daughter their dad really wanted. SHE never noticed that he got deserted. So we got fruit.

I mean, IT makes me sad to think that some of that, I think especially now that we're older, i'm very aware of, but I definitely again wasn't as a child and he makes me sad to think of like so going through all that and feeling very alone and me having no idea like that is so isolating. But then I also see .

IT from your perspective because it's sort of like has nothing to do with you.

But I like I don't see IT from my perspective that does have to do with I mean, even if IT doesn't directly like I wish I couldn't ve been there for her and like, yeah I don't know why I wasn't like, I don't know just like being Young 儿 and just not you seeing these things and maybe it's something that I was prime to think about so I wasn't like even noticing。

Since this whole pinky record thing for the first time zi analyze, I have started talking about all this directly. They called each other compared notes. So he was like, oops, I didn't say congratulations after you got your record, did I? And allied, I was like, I had no idea if I my job was cool and though I, who in one sentence will say SHE admire a ized a and in the next day she's jealous, has realized that there two sides of the same coin and how he feels about a lion. Any given moment has everything to do with how he feels about herself, and she's being more generous with her, and all looks different now to both of them.

On the Baker SHE is the cohoes of the podcast. Pretty sure I can fly with john y. knoxville.

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This is a go. Found her, I know. And D, C, he actually goes to the same yoga class that joe does. But the teacher is so overbearing. Tory keeps having the tower.

Let's be respectful of the president and push him gently in the right position.

I'm our glass back next week with more stories of this american life. Did you have to be in?