828: Minor Crimes Division
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And back just knows everything with a quick announcement before the show. And that is if you have not heard Sarah kane back with a new season of cereal and IT is about quanta able. And I just want to say, even if you think you know everything you wanted know about autonomy already, and even if you think you have no interested on one tanna, you wanna listen to the first episode of the show and check out what they found. What's happened is that enough time has passed that people are talking guards, prisoners and interrogators, commanders, details.

And what sera and a cohoes in achieves are interested in is what was IT like, what would you like to be inside this experiment that the united states wheeled into existence, this weird prison and court that we made from scratch? But the zone, surreal rules pop in the midst the crib an where in the off hours, the Young military personal were drinking a parting like crazy cereal, as they kind of invented a whole way of telling stories in podcast form and knew, will hear they still do IT Better than anybody. Cereal season for guantanamo, for the new york times in serial productions, get IT wherever you get your podcast.

Okay, here's today's episode. A quick warning. There are curse words that are on beeped in today's episode of the show. If you prefer a beeped version, you can find that at our website, this american life dorg dies.

And gentleman, let's be honest about something most of us, we see wrong doing out in the world, somebody breaking the law out the open, flagrantly. Most of us do nothing. But how many movies we've seen with the big question is that IT only takes one plucky, courageous person to make a stand. We've got stuff to do, people expecting us. We don't go to trouble even if we'll be so easy if the crime that we're witnessing as minor and nonviolent and .

sort about ranges. Here's a please me girl.

sen. Guy in his fifties gravier quick with a Frank smile, riding bikes around around manhattan for illegal license plates.

What mostly happens is i'll be biking along. And when you've looked at literally thousands of plates, you can see right out of the corner your eyes, if something's wrong, often even just a fake place will have a different glint in the sun. In this guys case, I could see it's a covered plate.

covered plate, meaning it's in a little frame with some sort of plastic over the plate.

Now, play covers are illegal in new york. This ones especially agree just because I don't have you notice and how to paint the word picture for your radio listeners. It's it's a shaded one, shaded with some special stuff.

So if you in the car directly behind this car, IT was Normal, but we were down on the plate from above, the way travel campers do is black, unreadable. So the traffic cameras to catch when you speed, run my light, they do not wave with this person .

to justice in the ticket to cameras that read .

your plate and charge your sixteen box when you cross rid your tunnel into new york, that is more than this car this person drives through for free every time. Taxpayers lose estimated hundred and ninety four million dollars a year and cost fines and toes. Because when readable plates, and most of the people gish catches doing this.

debating the law this way, cops, and once you start saying that you can't stop seeing IT, the majority have been people in laender, cement court officers, firefighters, cops, ds federal officials. And you know that there .

are police officers because you see stuff on their dashboard.

stuff like, yeah placards, a lot of placards. Hot spots are near to sinks, near a firehouses and definitely near courthouse ses.

actually next to a courthouse in a attention center, a short pocket backers. And bayard and this car, the crucial body, a grey oud, is one of four that we see with obscured plates. You're looking in the on the front ash for what to say there.

Well, so this is actually the manhattan tention complex authorized parking. This is department of corrections employee placards. But if you noticed, plate was from jersey, if the honor.

the great auty is an employee of the new york city to department corrections, they supposed to live in new york, is forbidden for them to live in jersey. And so they seem to be evading traffic cameras. Maybe they are living if we go out of state. We've also got directly ten of windows, which are illegal in new york, which means this is exactly the kind of scoffer the girl e's appointed themselves to take action against. That's what girl .

is different. You and me. What IT is is IT just rankles me. It's just like it's hiding in plain sight.

Builds again at the access under the girls win chilled.

I mean, this guys, you're old dick, I can see covered up when the planner d expires. My guesses is this is an expired placard anyway, and he may not even work for the city in new york anymore, but he's decided he wants to park for free in an illegal parking zone. Now, what I will often do in these situations is i'll remove the plate cover and stick IT on the dash.

I don't steal anything, but I do want to get to know he's breaking the law. A guy who works for corrections certainly should know what happens to people who who break the law. So and I have to look at IT to see, like, can I even get IT off if I could get? No, he's got a special screw on this one.

The four screw is on the place, need now arrange .

and I see if my Allen rentier will fit this one. If I will, i'll take IT off and we'll have some fun.

Because if you're playing .

in to a wallet, I always have an you don't have an range. I don't have the right size and in range. Let me check my bag. I travel with a set of tools.

He returns that he has another right toll, so leaves the license cover on car that's very not be able to fix the situation. Most time he finds this drivers of painted over a letter or a number of the plate or bent the plate, so it's unreadable, able, with current leaves in the license plate holders, they actually fake leaves with magnets. You can buy online for this purpose.

just removes .

leaves plates, replace the voters and numbers with the paint marker. So when they end, the plates is perfectly legible. Again, just shoot a video. Girls always shoot. Agree for good video post online are you .

usually start in front.

I was found self I style and a record.

Well, ever. It's good. Concert is good friday. And I want to say it's a great friday.

Look at this. I got a corrections officer with a new jersey car. It's pretty fancy car with illegal tented windows. And look at this on the back of the car is got this weird shadow kind of plate cover.

which the view the plate cover and how he hides the plate from the cameras done by two hundred fifty of these videos. Curious friends tried to give them to stop scared. Some drivers gna freak out on him and really hurt him so little.

He agreed not to do this alone. But sometimes he says he can't stop himself. The way girls got into this is journalists who writes about these sort of issues of traffic and transit news site called streets log.

He is that when speed enforcement cameras went on, twenty four seven in new york is back in August twenty twenty two, and lots of people back then started to facing their plates to avoid the cameras. He didn't get involved in the issue himself till a friend of his, him, adam, wait persons injuries, layer safe streets, activists decided to take action. Adam saw an S, U, V, whose plate was subsequent by a piece of plastic.

so he moved the piece of plastic. Unfortunately for him, he didn't look in the, in the car. The guy was sitting right there. The guy was also a cup.

to be precise. The guy was not a real N, Y, P, D. cop. He was in a local neighbor od control.

so he called the cops, and the cops arrested adam and charged with criminal myself. Ef, now that's the most historical part of IT, because criminal mysteria ef is generally like a gravity charge. Like if you, if you damage someone's property, you get charged with criminal ischia.

In this case, it's a weird charge because he didn't actually damage anything. He actually on damaged or repair the damage the other guy did by covering his plate. So anyway was arrested, but he was dismissed. But at the same time, once he got arrested, buy a cop for interfacing a cop, play a kind of, throw the whole irony ball in the air. I felt like I should just jugged IT.

The first spend of the irony ball for girl was a kind of Dylan ask protest song that he wrote for his friend adam.

cops are criminal this year. Theyll charge you in the fourth degree. That's all the criminal, mister. It's whatever they.

Then, maybe two days after adam was arrested, girls started on vantine zing plates himself.

Something click on me saying, but I should try to get arrested, know, as the newspaper reporters, a journalist which would be awesome, getting arrested, or even Better yet, like getting punched out by somebody on camera, like this is the hide of my cream, got a porter, but getting punched out by a cop.

but be awesome, that didn't happen, not even close. The girl has seen some other responses by law enforcement to his videos when he shows twenty days to ended to the agency that employees, that particular coroner. So videos about scope of cops go to the M, I, P, D, firefighters, the fire department, so on.

Let's get the vacation of results. Former copy was working with the s office resigned. And a guy that girl caught five times, hiding his license point with leaves resigned in the department of city wide administrative services.

something about IT. Now, in fairness, I will say I think the nypd did something because about six months ago, I started noticing far fewer police officers were defacing, recovering their plate. There been less police officers involved in these kind of sanctions and still notice court officers, federal officials and firefighters and and I I and my pd about that. And they won't even take credit for when they do something right, like very opake agency, which is very frustrating.

Handful of other people in new york kind of went to play street justice because he is most visible .

by far because this videos.

it's got the word out at this point. Serge's exploits have been written up in the new yorker, in the new york times. He's been on T. V.

So it's weird in in some ways, like i've been a reporter for thirty seven years in this city and this is ultimately the most successful thing i've done in terms of bringing bringing light to something that is actually a real problem like traffic enforcement agents are now writing more tickets for IT.

That said, the wrong the girls are trying to correct is so small in the grand scheme of things. Why is he the person who ended up leaving the crusade for unobstructed license plates? You don't mean is not this way with other petty crimes.

See somebody jumping a turn style. He doesn't care. But this got under the skin. The license plate seems like such basic accountant to him.

but also a bit of a showman. I'm a bit of a show man. I admit that, yes, I am a ham, I am a performer, but why can a journalist have a little fun that's actually .

want to make favorite things about Christian videos? He looks like he's having so much fun. You know.

new york life IT doesn't have a lot of joy and IT IT really doesn't like it's really kind of dragon y most of the time. It's great city, whatever, but it's treasury. And those twenty seconds a day when I can do one of those videos, it's just I get joyful. You see me on camera and i'm smiling and I don't know what that is. It's just like my inner .

soul is just singing IT.

Later, my program, minor crimes and the people who appoint themselves to stop those minor crimes, I was like this great crime writer who said that was interesting about a murder case, is that a murder reveals so much about all the people near the crime. We see who they really are today. On our show, we demonstrated that this is not just true for a cold blooded crime in the first degree is true with the tiny st. Human infractions, like kids still in Candy, or a man who twice violate the lowest level. Municipal offended, you can think of we see so much about who they are from wb easy chicago, this american life, amErica class give with us.

Equine harriet versus harriet, okay, so let's get things off today with an entire system of justice set up to adjudicate the most minor sorts of crimes and media ers. When Michael Harry, I was a kid growing up the south CarOlina in the eighties, his mom set this sub a kind of courtroom in the house to try to teach kids all kinds of live lessons. They called a harried court.

And when one of the kids did something wrong, the case would be heard, a judgment would be held down the run for many, many years with all kinds of cases. And mico says that he in the siblings all credit Harry at court with making them the people they are today. Though when I went to talk to them about IT recently, he started to rethink that .

harried court existed for a reason. We were bad. There were four of us, me and three sisters. Shine was the oldest.

So growing up I would describe myself is, um I was a snitch. I was not here to you. I would say back then I was the boss because I was when I was always in time, and I could see everybody.

I was the middle child, the nerd and the no at all, the sneaky st of the bunch. Then there were the two Youngest girls come leader, and rabin.

comely and Robin were like, they was, what you call the wild house, was just, whatever would know if IT could be doing, they did that.

They were going to try IT. They were born months apart, and Robin passed away some years ago. But no one ever really thought of cama leader in rabin's individuals. They will won interconnected unit like tom and Jerry bi, and collide or earth, wind and fire. He is come a leader.

They used to call us the devil and Daniel website. Because whatever I came up with, SHE would follow me. Or whatever he came up with, i'm going with your girl.

We don't IT together. We went to school together. We won the same cloth. Um we graduates the same year. So SHE had my bed.

And then there was my mom. My mom was not one of those because I said, so kind of mouse. He wanted us to know that we would be heard, and that logic and reason to govern the world and our household.

So SHE created harriet court as a solution to ocean americans. My mom was two people at once. He was part of a fundamental holiness religion.

And SHE was this problem, black, black penthievre vist, who was almost obsessively added about our education. SHE didn't really trust White people with their kids. So for a while, we were home schooled.

As a result, so much of what we learned came from TV, including harriet court proceedings. We hire each other as attorneys and use phrases like ladies and general of the jewelry. And I persist the, we persist each other a luck.

One of the earliest cases was, come a leader in Robin versus all this Candy. As a rule, we would not allowed to have Candy growing up accessible once a week, usually on friday. That was tough for my sister. Come, a leader who was obsessed with can .

we used to get the hubba bubble cause used to be strapped or banana and IT was five pieces so we got a big um lifesavers and either chick list or hub bubble bubble room.

I don't love Candy like you.

I loved Candy. We love Candy. So take .

us to the Candy case.

The Candy from the court .

store bought that Candy.

Now we stole a Candy. We stole a Candy. But we kept still in in and still in.

IT was so much Candy. IT was like halloween Candy. Like, i'm time I like bags you would get and take from your kids at halloween.

That's so much Candy was. But there was no place for india hide this. So we had the matters and me arriving to have something just put in the match of find, put IT on the matches. So we put that on the matches, and then one day mom will say what we can clean up on the matches and SHE lift the matches and he was under the matches. So we had to go to court and tell where we got a canto from, why we had so much, because IT was a lot like two pick weekly bags.

Robin come later, put me on retainer is their defense attorney, and exchange for them doing one of my households chores. We gathered in the end, which we call the middle room where chief justice doti area IT presided. SHE was sit in the canary yellow lazy boy, and we'd pleaded our case from the courts, slice witness backs, we swear each other in on a copy of our favorite book.

And cyclopedia Brown was mine. And I came up with the defense that I still argue should have worked, because, remember, we weren't allowed to eat Candy. My defence was that SHE kiss out, eat and can. And he came, proved that eight, the kid, and you just had to, can you know, you would try to say, can.

but that .

was my defence. I don't remember exactly, but mom would have cross exam in coma leader and Robin SHE probably asked them if they understood why we couldn't have Candy IT was because I had A D, H, D, which my mom believed got worse with sugar. After we'd made our arguments, a mom dismissed Harry in court by saying OK make good choices, then SHE deliberate before issuing a written opinion. Yes, a written opinion which would be take to our doors, describe how you used to feel like in your body when you was waiting for her to decide on like .

the world going come .

to IT in like IT was anything might be the next day, might be the same night you didn't know what was gone to happen. And you will just take the paper and and be folded up and you have to reach a decision. But you know what you never say. Well, let me consult with somebody else.

IT was all you're .

write like SHE never consult with anybody or appeals. What he said was IT.

Citizens were usually something like a week of extra chores or two weeks in solitary bedroom confinement, which happened so IT individually became known as being on punishment. And because we didn't go to school and only had each other to play with, those in room incarceration periods seemed unbearably log. And that was the point. The punishment gave you time to learn from your mistakes. In the Candy case, mom came down horon commonly, and Robin, they were on punishment for a long time, and they both never stole Candy again.

For years i've remember the Candy case as an example of the court working the best. But when I talk to come a leader about IT recently, SHE made me look at things a little differently.

We punishment a long time, but I didn't matter with me arriving because we used to always, like, do what we were not supposed to do anyway. Mom was at work, so me and Robin would do whatever we want to do until we knew staff to come home. So I really didn't matter come later.

Didn't that misbehaving? I can just see her sitting in her room thinking over the lesson we learned from the Candy case, find a Better hiding spot. So maybe IT wasn't a perfect criminal .

justice system.

And the more I think about IT, there seems to be a lot of cases like this, ones that showed, in retrospect, that aba loved Harry court was kind of flawed. Ed, like the case of shan roses, the big lie we started when my mom virally allowed us to attend .

public school.

I think i'm about being full or six. great. I went to the school and .

I told him I was .

dying going.

I told him I was dying. I hate this own undetermined disease that nobody know about. And lively, the whole gray was like, oh, my good. She's that you know how much time and like, do all of themselves in sort of even the teachers? They was like feeling bay because I was feeling bay.

Shine classmates raise money for her unnamed terminal illness and even signed a huge poster that was supposed to go on a market. SHE kept this like going for a month until my mom found out about IT. I think he was .

like parents to conference or something. And so my mom were in, the teacher was just expressing, you know, how he was feeling bad and asking about everything that was going on, even showed her, you know, how I had the people sound and on my day and everything and oh boy, when he got home was like, when you put to be done, I just, can you know you like loser, but like and SHE would like so i'm i'm not you going to be sick for real you, you, you really all we think for real.

Lying was a big deal in our house. We weren't even allowed to say the word lie. Shawn called for a harriet court trial, but really, IT was just a delay tactic.

He knew he didn't even have a case. SHE was just trying to buy time, hoping my mom would cool off. IT didn't work.

The case went to trial, and my mom put her on punishment for weeks. Sad, never told another lie like that again, unless you count that times he lied about going to spring break in ninety four. But the thing I realized when I talk to her, but he wasn't just acting out for no reason. This new school was a totally different environment at home. He was a tough older sister, but at school he was crying every day.

He was a culture shot for us, told a different school, told a different neighbor, I mean, predation. White people like literally um I have not friends. I am here like maybe three, four friends that I like, I really did. I think that was probably the reason why I actually started on. And that was like, is give me some attention.

So looking back, I can't say that Harry IT court wrote in this instance, shine was lonely and he needed attention. So SHE acted out by telling a lie, my mom, minister, for the lie, but I didn't help her make friends. Like the real world criminal justice system, harriet court didn't address the world .

cause of the problem IT was trying to fix.

Over the years, as we learned about the real world, harriet court became more complex. The s case addressed the no profit rule. We used the court to establish precedent like I was doing at first, which stated that you weren't breaking the no hitting wall as long as you were moving your ARM and yelling, I was doing this first after all, IT wasn't your for if someone got cracked ed upside the head, you were doing IT first.

We even used IT to overturn previous verdicts, like the one that enforced our reliance ban against the women wearing pants in Harry. At court, we successfully convinced my mom to overturn the no pets rule. So shine could play software.

And as with any justice system, over time, my sisters and I found loopholes that we could use to subvert our mm, strict rules. We became a team of semi cricket lawyers. They are steam firm of hurried, hurried Harry and another harried. Sometimes we face each other in court, which brings us to the last case, which is about me. Michael voices syrup.

as the oldest one of .

shows many responsibly lit. E. S was Operating the washing machine SHE was the only sibling allowed to do IT.

So I was a person that had to like, washed the clothes. Um I will wash the close in other girls. So like either put a mini driver or hang out or what I would need to be doing to and like he didn't do evening itself everything to try when he was.

So I had to do the yards. I had to live all the stuff in the house like .

I was that though, how often was that? That was not that often. That was my day off.

Shaan always felt like I wasn't doing enough, and there's the person who sisters nicknamed him the apps that might be professor. I was the only sibling who regularly forget to give her my clothes. One day he finally reached a tipping point, and except that her revenge.

I really was like, i'm not watching your clothes anymore. I like, i'm not doing that anymore and I washed everybody cloes. Except he is that way.

But the next day was a picture day. I think you left the important detail out. There was a picture day. I was furious.

Science pty vendors meant I wouldn't have my favorite ite shot on one of the most important events on the elementary school calendar picture day. And if you wonder why I couldn't just convinced her to do another load. That was an even an option, two loads in one week in the harriet house.

Does my mom look like daddy war books to you? So because of my mom's one low per week rule, I had no choice but to find a look. All that could get me what I want.

So we would like get clothes out and night for some reason, particular night, I didn't get my cloth out in the end, when I went to really go get my clothes out, IT was like, there are over my clothes. Like in the draw.

I had snuck .

in to her room. But the bottle of cane pet syrup and ported all over her clothes. Of course, he was upset, but this was all part of my plan. Now that we were both without closed for picture day, there was only one place we could settle out differences.

Harry at court.

I argued that the solution was for my mom, grant, a one time special exemption from the one load rule I won. SHE would like wash you.

You got to wash shoes anyway. You manage to wash his clothes. See if you've gotta wash him anyway, I feel like a little head to wash all micros over, plus his loves. He was a way to put IT to serve all mics.

Shine had to pay for a crime that I committed while I escaped without punishment. In the moment when I won, I felt great. I ran around the middle gloating about my superior legal skills, but when I went to my bed room afterwards, which was the next of the line room, I could hear her sabin to herself as he tossed those clothes in the wash machine.

I felt terrible. I hope my sister just to get my way, and I done IT in the worst way possible by weapon zing, an institution that was created to give us justice. I was just another lawyer game in the system.

Perry Mason would never. Thirty years later, my sister and I have never really talked to her mom about area at court. SHE was the person who vote the and made the decisions, but i've never asked her if her system worked as he intended or why he started IT in the first place. Turns out he didn't just create IT to keep us in check.

My secret ambition was to go to last school. Even now. Today, my favorite T V show is just july, or I want, just july. I watch trees.

Ladies and gentleman of the jewelry, my mom, the honorable dorthy hoot.

we used to watch people's caught. You have to watch people's caught. Because I watch this all the time. And I could really, George name .

judge watcher, just watch.

But as of my favorite shells, even today, I should have going in our school, I didn't cause I didn't think I A press the L, S, A, T. I probably could help. But I I was afraid to take you.

My mother says, honestly, for her, Harry court was partly for her own enjoyment. SHE loved arguing with me, although he told me I wasn't the Young legal eagle I remembered with. Stung in my head, I thought I was one of the most persuasive atterley you are ready made of your mind when you render your decisions at the time.

Yes, because I had already thought about IT what we would judge in and whatever we were .

going to court for. You are no.

because I had, I want to made of my my hand. No cold. No, no. Do right in your, no, no, you so so the come leader.

why even.

Because I wanted to be fair, I wanted to have to think I would be unfair.

Are you being fair?

I I think .

I was pretty fair.

Did you think that would make us Better behaved voice behave or no change?

I don't think I really made a difference with just bad. Nobody could come up with the things to tell you. Would just some beat children, to be honest today, are still on the James, have bad children.

Come to think of IT, my sister and I never really changed that much calm. A leader is still the most rebellion. Shine is still the snitch.

Hotel mom, you know, there's whisky and mike, his cup. And me, i'm still the same. Let me explain why i'm correct.

No at all. Who my mom, what's called, are right, supreme ist. But the court did one thing. IT turned me and my sisters into a team. IT was us versus the judge, us trying to outthink mom.

I created that atmosphere on propose. You know, I wanted you guys to know is how to stand your own ground, and to be honest about who you are and what you were doing. And I think I I made that point.

We caught, ate that point IT touch you guys loyalty to each other. And the the other is on each other, still don't 不下雨。 那时候 我 心里 也 洗头 了 everyday。

Talking to her, I realized that harriot court was not some genius institution that fit perfectly until my mom massed the player. Like most paris SHE was just making IT up as he went along. But to us, my mom tried this amazingly ambitious thing because of IT. We still have this almost unreasonable faith and logic and justice. And whenever we talk our conversations, and the exact same way my mom and did each session of Harry court OK make good .

choices.

Michael harriet is ready for the gro as let this book is black of history, the unweighted ashes story of america. History was produce by a man judge. Coming up a thave, still something very rare to build a spaceship that in a minute about radio one program continues.

This american life, amErica as today's program, minor crimes division, stories of tiny acts of wrongdoing, what they're say about the people who commit them, and about the people who have devoted themselves to catching and punish ing these acts. We arrived to act to our program, act to side, you know, sometimes there is a disagreement of whether tiny act of wrongdoing is, in fact, and act of wrong doing at all. One of our producers have ve received a corn file as such a tell coveys .

a heady had just moved to conferences go. He had even really moved there yet he just driven there with a car full of staff, crashed at a friend's house while he look for an apartment. He didn't have a permit to park in his friend's neighbourhood, which meant he had to move his car every two hours.

So I would have to go every day, every two hours, and move the car.

He does this all day, every day. Extremely annoying. But he's diligent about IT. And then one day he comes out to find a parking ticket tucked under his one child wipes member hours.

I what the fuck? I just I moved IT. It's been less two hours.

This is wrong. I I didn't do anything wrong. I I followed the rules.

There's an expensive ticket through on three hundred dollars. He decides .

to contest IT. So I go to the court and I spend of the judge what happened and he says, how far did you move IT? I think I don't know, maybe like thirty feet getting, I don't know what thirty looks like.

And I said, why? How far is supposed to move IT? SHE says, I don't know.

Let me look IT up so he takes up this big law book and SHE is going through IT and he finds a thing he's here is IT says, here you have to move IT um oh, thirty five feet so i'm afraid I have to give you the ticket know you lose I said, wait in IT first of all, I might have been thirty five year and might have been forty feet. I don't know. I didn't measure IT.

Second of all, you didn't even know what the amount was. And if you don't know the the amount was, why should I have to pay a ticket if I me that you don't even know what the lies about? No one know.

They didn't say anything about IT. It's in this a stupid book and it's ridiculous. So i'm sorry, ignorance of the law is no excuse.

Coffee was upset. He turned to leave, and I just couldn't .

accept to feel like that without saying anything like I want to go to feel at least bad about IT, or at least, you know, I wanted to put some doubt in her mind that he may have been wrong.

This is the kind of person copy, is when he sees something in the world that seems wrong or ill conceived or unfair. It's very hard for him not to point IT out. This is why there a strength or a personality defect. He sees that as both coffee major in philosopher still reads that sometimes, which is why, on his way out of the courtroom, he stopped, turned back to the judge, and I know how this sounds, said this, do you know the distinction between legalism and essentialism in chinese philosophy? No surprise, the judge said, no, he didn't.

And he said, well, the legalist believe in applying the letter of the law, and the essentialists believe in the spirit of the law. And in terms the spirit of the law, I didn't do anything wrong. I A get you to move your car.

So as people can use that spot and you don't just like hogged, I did that the letter of the law has thirty five feet, but it's random in arbitrary, could be thirty four feet or thirty six feet or forty five doesn't really matter. It's just like what is literal nonsense. And essentialists are right.

And the legal alist are wrong and you are underlining with the illegal ists. I just something like, well, that's very interesting. Thank you for enlighten me.

Do you think that would work?

I always think that people can be persuaded something that makes sense.

But if i'm a judge in some guy starts talking to me about the nuances in chinese physics, I feel i'd be like i'm gna double .

like I fine but SHE didn't double IT but she's truly didn't in a cancelled .

that I still had to .

pay yeah yeah I payed.

This all happened years ago. IT turns out the fine coffee had to pay was smaller than he remembers. The number of feet for parkin was larger. But the spirit of the story remains the same. Anyway, cover finally gets an apartment of his zone in a parking permit for his car, so he doesn't have to move in every two hours anymore. But it's still hard to find a place to park.

And sometimes you are just circling the streets, like for half an hour or an hour in late night, you know, and you can find a spot and you're tired and you're angry and you're hungry and you just like, uh, and so sometimes you just desperate. So you'll park somewhere that kind of like border line illegal. So I did that. I like I couldn't take IT anymore, so I just parked near the corner curb, which, you know, I supposed to and, you know, but I was barely touching IT. You know, I just barely and the next morning I go go to my car and, you know, have a ticket and .

I decided contest .

IT why you actually .

did something wrong this time.

I know, but IT was so much money and IT was so close. I don't. I just, I contested IT.

What were you imagine your argument would be because you can't do the spirit of the a letter of the laughing? In this case.

I know, I don't know what I was thinking.

I think maybe I .

don't makes no sense, but I contested IT and I got the same court. I will around for a long time, and I get the same judge. And SHE says to me, I member you you're the guy who talked to me about there, is being legal ism essential, some in chinese value? And I said, yeah, you remember that she's like, I do.

She's I thought about that a lot. And SHE said, and thinking about IT, I think you are right. I think the spirit, the law is more important than the letter of the law.

And I regretted giving you that ticket. And even though you are clearly guilty in this case, i'm not gonna make you pay for the ticket because I made you pay for one that you weren't guilty for. So SHE cancelled IT.

That's unbelievable that a person .

would be persuaded by another person.

Kind of like, how often do people change their minds? Almost never.

No, that's true. It's sad.

What was your reaction?

What I was? And unathletic know the world seems so in human superior craft. And I just seemed like the human had prevailed for once.

Seriously, all across the world, on any given day, how many people actually take the time to listen to what a complete stranger has to say, consider IT, change their mind, and then admit to IT? Hardly ever. And the fact that this doesn't happen more often, that's a crime and not a minor one.

Be the coin filed coveys ahead. He told this story on this podcast, three hundred six, five stories I want to tell you before we both die. At three drew intentions. So sometimes small crimes can be hurt to serve because they are small.

This next stories about the scheme that had been going on for a very long time, right into everybody's noses, IT was brazen, but nobody could figure out who was behind IT. The cabby. I told the story of what happened on stage of the month .

in the elementary school where I teach, there are legos that are very valuable, and legos no one gives a shit about. The ones you don't really care about are the ones there are thousands of the great two by force, the black tubby force, anything that's red. For some reason, all we have a red legos.

And the ones that are valuable are the things that you can't really find. So there's a second grade, a third grade. In the fourth grade, everyone's got bins and indian bins.

The things you very rarely see are, uh, anything lime Green. I think once upon a time we had a set that was line Green, anything that has A A picture on IT? It's kind of magical.

And then these jewels, there are these little plastic clear coloured legos, and they really look valuable. And I mean, i'm kind of sacked about them too. And every class has in only my class has what I like to call the black hole boys.

They are the boys who sit anytime, this choice time, and put together legos and discuss theories of outer space and infinity. And they like, they build space ships and like a, okay, but could there there be a black hole that that would be strong enough to pull other black holes in? And they all sort of to think about that for a one.

And there my boys, I like them. I'm really into them and and most of playing legos in anywhere in in my school is really mostly just paying through looking for the valuable ones. I mean, you of course you could build with them, but that's not the fun part.

The fun part is I found this orange jewel or whatever. So um that's always a big deal. And all the bins are outside underneath the cubes.

So every class has their bins you near near their classes. Cubby, the second I teach third grade, the second graders come to me one day and they say we need your help. We think someone's been stealing our jewels.

Now they have to dismantle all their legos at the end of every week so that it's really fair. So you have a chance to paw through and find the jewels and knew every monday. And they have been noticing that over the course of several weeks, they find fewer and fewer jewels.

And they suspect my class. And I say, you know what, that's not really fair. I'm sure that IT is not my guys who are doing that. And they say, well, we think you should look through their bins at their spaceships and find out if they've got our jewels and I said, you know what, that's not what we're going to do. We're going to trust them.

We're going to ask them, did you take those jewels? And if they say, no, we're going to believe them because secretly, i'm thinking a there's no way my boys did IT and B I don't really want to get in the middle of that if that's what's going on. So so um so we asked my boys and the sort of ring leader, the head of the black old boys, Edward is this smart, very sour kid whose space ships are amazing.

I think they looked like they could really go and and he says, no, we have not. Have you tried the fourth grade because those guys think they're so big. And so me and these these three little second graders go to the fourth grade, and we say to some of the fourth graders who were playing with legos, did you guys take these jewels? And the fourth graders say, no.

And then later, privately, they say, you know, are you sure the second greater are telling the truth because they think they're so cute? There begins to have there's a culture of fear developing across all three grades. No one trust each other.

Everyone sort of looking at each others things that they're building and the teachers are picking up on IT too. I'm sort of watching everyone the spaceship being like, I don't remember that orange one and the Green one and the blue one in the second grade of two a. That's not I don't know.

That's great. And i'm sort of get i'm sort of getting there too, but we're all kind of watching each other. And then I am getting homework.

Edward does his homework and does more home work than he needs to, but he always forgets to hand IT in. And so I just now I go into this cubby just to grab the math. Home work that I know is in there under the math homework is a jewel encrusted spaceship.

dazzling. The wings have wings, and those wings have other things. And there's A A glass window that I ve literally never seen before.

In the six years that I ve been teaching there. I ve never seen this glass window. It's beautiful, but I am stuck with a dilma.

What do I do with this if I accuse him? Then number one, the second greater are kind of intense and i'm a little worried about what they would do. Number two, I already told the second graders IT couldn't possibly been my boys.

This is my reputation on the line as well. I don't want IT to have been him. I could IT occurs to me just steal IT back.

I could just take IT, because if he tried to say someone stole my jew interested spaceship, that would be on him. That would be, you know, that a dilema he would have. But then I realized that that would be, that could possibly be framing another kid.

And I do. I have my line I will not cross, so i'm not going to frame a kid. So instead I wait for a friday when we should be taking apart our things.

And he has not been taking apart this big ship. And I waited till friday, I get him alone and I say to him really casually, so don't forget to take apart your spaceship. And he looks at me and he knows, I know. And he, and he says something really, boy, he goes, I did. I already in.

I sit down with him, I opened the coffee, I show him the spaceship, and I say, this is an amazing spaceship. Use IT a really .

great job, but you've .

got to let you go. And we cut a deal. And over the course of several weeks, we dismantle the spaceship very, very slowly. Hey, I can't just smack IT. I'm not going to do that.

I'm not going to just take a whole thing apart and I start secretly putting those jewels back in other people's cubes for him so that he can still be the head of the black hole boys and not lose that reputation that he has that he loves and so that I don't have to go back on my word that my boys didn't do anything. I was an accessory to a third. great. There's no way around now. thank.

If a by who is important man. At four oculus toilet OK earlier on a show, we had a mom who invented an entire courtroom to teach your kids some lessons and some values. In this act, we have parents doing something so much simple you're simply trying to level with their kids and reason with them together. And in this case, they recorded what happened. We've actually changed every boy's names of the kid's request, Better the hope he tells the story.

Target name live in a house in new jersey is an old house. And one day they noticed they ve got a plumbing problem. There's liquid pooling in this hole in their basement floor around a sewage pipe they call plumber, who snakes the drain in charges than five hundred dollars.

And then a few weeks later, the liquidity appears. A second plummer comes in. He can find any other problems with their sewage system.

His professional opinion is that there isn't anything wrong with their suit system. He thinks what's going on as much as simpler, the liquid in the hole is actually pee. Someone in their house is paying.

In the whole.

this seemed entirely possible. Amy and taught, have three boys meet your old twins, ryan and Lawrence, and their Younger brother heel he seeks. And so they're gather the kids together .

to find out .

who peered in the whole amy. Their mom records a video of the meeting on her phone.

We had the plumber come again and two times in rough just over three weeks. Um there's been like urine backup in the basement like p now that's right .

to a number one. They're all sitting on a navy blue sectional. Tod keeps coming laying out the facts. Yes, they think there's pee on .

the basement floor. Yeah, said not me. That's you, the little.

One laws to one number two hasn't said anything yet. He's quiet with a blank expression on his face. Then ryan, ask a question .

in peace. he.

Wants to know if it's possible .

that the dog did is entirely my question to any of you. You have any of you ever gone and just peed in that hole in the basement? Wow, this is just swear. Yes, yes.

That I promise there, that's lords, the quiet twin, he breaks his silence. So now all three children have denied paying in the whole. Their dad tries to explain to the kids, someone playing in the whole is actually the best possible scenario.

IT would not be good and I would not be happy. But I would be preferable that if someone is doing this, they're honest because the other explanation is that we have a bad sewage problem that no one can explain. So it's actually Better if someone just says, yes, IT was me. IT was an accident. I did IT twice because then at least we are not crazy and we always have a plummer come again because we already spend a lot of money in to figure out what's going on.

IT was me, ryan says. But then he turns out he was just trying to get the .

interrogation over with. No, that doesn't if you're wine that we just want you guys to be honest. okay. Just tell us on.

No, we're not. Okay, let's go one by one.

They ask every child again, starting with two. One, number one.

ryan.

have you paid in that space? Okay, here's another. We're talking about that there, there, there this weekend and three weeks ago.

okay. Did you see anybody of your brothers? Do IT? I never know anybody. Okay, next.

next few. The Youngest, he's confidence with a rainbow book. Mark finding himself with .

IT IT was not mean, see anybody? no. And you didn't do yes. Well, yes.

Finally, Lawrence to in number two, he answers the question with the directness of a politician caught up in a scandal.

I did not pee in the hall OK.

The next thing we're gonna is we're a we're going to go down to the police department because they have allied detector test OK.

The twins ryan and Lawrence are in, but you, the little one, lets out a nervous kiko.

So before we go to the police department, can anyone just tell the truth?

Hue shoots his hand in the air is isa wide and smiling.

Yes, I did. How many times? once? How many times? one? Because somebody that would have to, they had to have happened more than one time. Okay, then I probably did.

I like three, why?

I don't know, because I need to go so bad. And once in one time, I need to go so bad.

I was, like, so far away .

from the bathroom. And I could listeners.

there is a bathroom in the basement. There are twenty five steps that Operate the bathroom from the play area. Maybe a few more likes are short.

How many times to do with, again, three times in the basement? Are .

you fine?

We are taking five hundred dollars at your bank account.

I don't even have. You're going to have .

your money.

Just forget IT.

Okay.

case closed, the court returned. Huge mom told me the point of this whole thing was, yes, to solve the crime, but also to bring these kids into the adult world for just a moment, see the situation the way they do. But he knows that was probably too much to ask.

Kids live in the old world. It's a world about plummers. You charge five hundred dollars. It's a world where a hole in the ground looks like a perfectly good place to pee.

Better hope day is an editor .

rather show.

A friend that know was back in the work he noticed, have been really at all a happy for a total chair who has the totally a third. A piece of tape covered his plate. He turned a letter b to and e by bRandy, couldn't at the case.

No, he couldn't let that free. A they simply do not want to hear. The cups were created this to more. So today's .

program is produced by a vivid coin. fd. The people were together today show include big mon, may, fear and engine die, ones of a change on mythic romney france is turney, Julie with girl and dian, who are managing ea of our senior editor.

David, our executive editor is a manner and Kathy country, our website, this american lifestyle orgues. We can stream our archive of over eight hundred episodes for absolutely free. Also those videos, there's list of favorite choice if you're looking for something to listen to.

Lots of other stuff there. Anyway, this american life org, this american life is to live with the public radio stations by P. R.

X, the public radio exchange. Thanks, your programs cofounder, tory manatee. You know, I went to trial this week. He's doing fifteen parts of hues. This events, I got to say, was not the strongest.

I don't look .

like amErica class back next year with more stories .

of american PS criminal mischief, the public fails to find. 好啊， guys, 这个 时候。

我 没死。