Options for BlackRock BTC ETF Go Live on NASDAQ Today | Crypto Town Hall
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Everyone and get the music off for second. Uh, we're as usual we are in neglect. Uh, I when to go host and might didn't work, brought back up now says can add cohoes plastic x spaces uh, Normal tuesday here but anyways, that shouldn't matter.

We're onna just a roll through host a and we have just an absolute insane cyp to news cycle right now, especially since the election. It's almost hard to keep up with a bit of disbelief as all the things are happening at one time. I stand see truck media looking to purchase the exchange backed B, A, K, K, T. I remember relentlessly making back that as a jokes, a on twitter in my two thousand nineteen or two thousand twenty, when batch was going to be the key. Unlike the institutional involvement and crypto, anyone who was here problem remembers that there were basically no institutions, no wall state involvement and bat, which was a backed by you are not exchange uh was coming and launching institutional grade products will obviously never gained much traction.

But now potentially dona trumps, uh, the company behind his social media platforms going to buy at, which would be pretty insane if you think about the fact that a city, united states president, although the best from things I could be, specially the owner of an institutional grade crypto exchange, uh on top of that down the trump meeting with brian armstrong, uh, being reported by the wall street journal to discuss appointments uh to his cabinet and to key positions trump, if you remember a nash fill and since has been saying he's going to a point a crypto council of sort to basically advise on cypher policy moving forward and how to the industry. Well, bright armstrong tried for years to get meeting with the gander who was seeing him and attacking him and couldn't even do that well. Now is gonna sitting with the president and advising on cabinet appointment.

So very clear that even in just a few weeks since election, we've had a major turning of the tide uh, from regulators, legislators and just the general tone from washington. And that is lead story here for a title options for blackboard take. When you have to live on naz today, you have may uh remember that these were reluctant, basically approved by gans, were only for black, black interested, so not for the other etf as of yet.

And then in this period since the election, the C, F, T, C. Very quickly saying, yeah, we're going life at these things, right? So, uh, anyone can jump in and David baby, ah you have your thoughts how bigger options here on these etf. What does that mean for the industry, for the asset class in general?

Now I think there's two ways to think about IT. Um I think there's the trading um piece of IT and then there is the substance of IT. The trading piece of IT is folks that Frankly just trade, trade anything, trade you know currencies, commodities rate swap, equities, whatever uh they are in the you know business, um they now have more to trade with uh relative to bitcoin and the etf.

And so therefore, we will start to see you know some great brain power focused on, you know, where can I go ahead and all about some money, where can I go ahead and make predictions, you know, based on the way one market is going on, the best to go head and you know predict where the next market is going. So I think that, that's very good, and we should start to see that pretty quickly. There are people that only trade options and Frankly, will not pay trade cash. So those people are now welcomed into the crypto o universe as well.

Um and then longer term um which is really where the value proposition is, um is simply this is the evolution of any financial product um in in in the animals of wall street or trade fy I know people know may not be particularly you know like uh trade five, but at the end of day, to the extent that they go ahead and slice and dice bitcoin and its etf and its derivatives and you know whether IT be leverage john them or you know somehow packaging them in a different way, um you know that all allows for more money to go ahead and find a home um inside of bitcoin, inside of the bitcoin universe and ecosystem. And I think that that's very I mean, from a tried five person originally like myself, that's very welcomed because that goes ahead and brings a lot of brain power to bear, a lot of resources, a lot of capital to bear and and that's really amazing. Um i'll leave one last slot and we don't need to get to this now.

But you know i'm starting to think about kind of a couple years down the line terms of the powers of bitch, the powers in bitcoin, right? Clearly, Larry think and black rock are a power in bitcoin and they will continue to be so because large think has more money behind blackrock than any other as a manager. But at the same time, you have Michael sailor in the case of microstrip gy, um essentially turning the fiat or the the tap at the capital markets.

I will to go ahead and raise money to buy more bitcoin and i'm wondering about whether there will ever be a face off between the two. And if the united states, you know, to think more broadly about bitcoin becoming a reserve currency for corporations, for nation states around the world, and sewn, Larry think, is a well known commodity to folks all around the world in finance, whether IT be at the corporate level or at the government level, Michael sailor is not a known commodity. And I wonder if people have a choice over who to pick in that war to the extent they were ever to be one. Um you know what would they particularly place you know, their their preference on think over sailor, what does that mean longer term for microstrip gy, his sailor alone wolf, will he always be alone with? I'm not really sure, but that's kind of where my thought is right now.

Yeah, that's interesting state, certainly. You know, who made more money than black breakfast here? Tether, pretty astounding.

And so as powerful I think as a Larry think, is the crypt. Ta companies me out of money. Uh, been represented here. And what sailor is pulling off, uh, I could effectively you know become just p more things since .

you raised tether. You know a question of of how important does heather become or not become because of what's going on with luttach and the treasury department and whether he's in or he's outer, he's annoy trump or I don't know what the the chairs on on available at the day is, are finite and they're gonna winners and losers.

I think at the end of the day and just you know kind of keeping a pulse on keeping a finger on the pulse of what is going on and who is getting a seat at the table and who is not necessarily being a loser today, but certainly over the long term, losing out to someone else is really important. Um you know in in this contest and and trump, you know buying back and you know Donald j truck, Donald p junior going to a venture capital firm. There's just a lot of stuff going on that you really need to be aware of.

My lot that is Cherry, you know the head of the transition team. So he clearly is having a role, whether ends up a stern, he is not the most popular person on the street in general, so probably a lot to put push fact h him taking a position that large.

But for those who don't know is see of crofts jail and basically the person who put to a final end all of the tether fun by saying, hey, I love other and counterfeit geral is custom yet, right? This been a huge bitcoin ball and tether, uh, you know, tether supporter. And I think that that's made a huge impact on the way that, that asset is viewed.

And now you have a lot coming in and becoming a part of the government. Well, I think IT becomes a lot more likely that either is accepted in the united states and doesn't end up on the alto, which a lot of people were anticipating. I think what you're good .

yeah I mean I think .

it's a really good news um because we had you know we trumble saying a lot of stuff before the election and we all knew like as much it's like great to be panda to um was we are being penned to and then a couple of things may be nervous even though we know we've got like vance in there who's a big corner and all those guys I know that trump can be turned off for something pretty easily.

And then when barren like verifiably launched that D J T rug um like so verifiably that I actually got refunded by Polly market when they said the the opposite. And then you know there's a mothers that they try to raise like a billion dollars and wouldn't raise any fraction of that. I was worried that trump cut turned off to IT, but I think this is proof that he isn't he hasn't been.

And you know, it's really hard when you're talking to people and you want to say this time is different because you've been saying that for like a decade, but he really does feel like this time that is different. You know, we we were pushing all time high when we were thinking maybe I could be president and now we're seeing like a little bit of a bump because the entire world has changed and become more friendly to people like us. I think this time is .

different worth mentioning.

We talked about microstrip gy before. I just has four hundred dollars, nothing yet. Another new all time high R.

P. stock. And I looked and IT just surpassed three hundred last monday. So eight days to go from three hundred years to past four hundred. And there was only couple weeks before that at the past two hundred. So microsoft are going in fully paraboloid bought over four billion dollars were at the bit point that was announced yesterday, eighty eight thousand dollars on the same day announced that bad. He often helps another one point two billion dollar convertible note being raised, and all of that, while still raising forty two billion more dollars to buy a bit on day with good.

Yeah, I I know you tell your audience this all the time. I go head and said, as the guy is not here every day, this is a Normal folks is really important you know to just be aware of that not that I can keep going for a while um but at some point does have to stop um with respect to microstrip, gy also met a planet you know raising money on a one year piece of paper at one year piece of dead ah I think we've all Scott one year piece of paper over in japan yielding less than one percent um is also you know pretty astounding that those folks whether be met a planet or max strategy or something scientific or whoever else can go ahead and you know bring the register right now. I was going to go out there and raise as much capital as they can as they should to go ahead and just buy more.

Oh.

what do we do now?

I don't know anyone else say you go out .

and take over.

I think the microstrip phenomenon is really interested in. There are elements a bit that feel a tune, like a mean stop, like a mean stock, like game stop. And if you look at the sort of the twitter community around microstrip gy people, there are all sorts of just craziness happening. Uh, you also have a lot of people convincing ing themselves that microstrip somehow found an infinite money glitch. And you know, this a creative delusion is this magical thing that can keep going on forever and Price targets in the thousands of dollars for microstrip gy.

On the other hand, right, IT does seem like there is this dynamic in the market right now, which is pretty interesting, where microstrip gy is able to get very cheap debt because it's good for uh, both traders and people who are that market and then they're able to pay off the debt by doing at the market h equity raises. And you know who knows, i've personally not been participating in that market because no, I don't i'm a good trainer and I don't really understand the dynamics. Well, not and IT feels too good to be true, but there is a huge community of people that are just completely focused on microscope gy now and like it's almost sucking the you energy out of the room that would otherwise go to other high bea stuff .

um like maintains or you know oh yeah as as a holder of of some microstrip gy, it's one of my larger positions simply because it's grown not much. Um you know i'll say two things. First of all curiously, you know the folks that have done the most capital raising for microstrip gy um is city is my understanding and they have not been loud or proud about IT. They've been very quiet about IT despite the fact that city is. Sorry, can you hear me now?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Minutes trying to get. Thank you. Thank you for continuing to talk if you did so the city .

has done the majority as far as I understand that of the capital raising for microstrip gy, they have not been loud about IT um despite the fact that they have a pretty torni h image and they could use any good press that they can get at this point.

And really the folks that have been loudest about microstrip gy and being involved or kind of that, I would say even the third tier shops that you know I can ico genuine has done a fair amount of a placement, maybe stiffly as well. So I am IT to me is just interesting how this incredibly strong train moves on. But nobody in the class a investment banking space um is attached to the except city and city has been super quiet about IT.

The other thing regarding microstrip gy as I don't think seller although being a huge advocate for bitcoin generally and for his stock um I don't think he is yet overstepped his bounds um in terms of you know making a move outside of his lane of you know we're just a bit on accumulator. I mean he has thrown out some you know future um you know dreams of being a bitcoin bank and and that's not foreign the future potentially but you know he hasn't been outlandish and he may get to a point where he can easily be outlandish if he wanted to. Brian armstrongs saying before he's meaning with trump that he may want to go ahead and suggest that we do away with income tax in the united states is certainly a step outside of brian armstrongs lean.

Maybe IT was asked of him, I don't know. But at the end of the day, I believe, you know Michael sailor know he's got permanent capital. Brian armstrong runs coin base. I mean, yes, it's it's it's unique in itself. But at the end of day, IT IT is a broker for tensor purposes, an exchange and student.

But at the end of the day, you know, sailor, if he wanted to be, you know loud and proud, he certainly who'd have the right to be and he hasn't yet. And i'm wondering if he will get to a point where he will be. No, not currently. I see signings up. By the way, we spoke a little bit about some of the stuff earlier earlier this morning on the on daily .

financial time. And I was your invention, right?

cool. Yeah what I find absolutely fascinating is that all all topics seem to be emerging upon one. So the finance stuff is becoming increasingly more a bit coin crypto bitcoin in crypto is being deeply integrated into the financial system.

Um and you can't help to talk about all the uh the the politics um and the geopolitical stuff. We just seem to be emerging. And I think that's a reflection of bitcoin taking its place at the center of the stage of many different issues.

Um and so now with the options we were discussing earlier with David, you know this really opens up the next wave of kind of what we were doing in defy where we were taking bitcoin and we were wrapping IT into a theory uh and then we were allowing people to borrow against IT in a small, small contract um and uh you know and then allowing people to generate yield on the bitcoin while getting outside by taking all of these different counterparty risks um and mart contract risk well now try play going to do IT so you going to have cover calls on top of bitcoin um you've got income and yields will be generated on top of bitcoin from being able to, you know provide liquidity to short sellers. And some head wound is gna get a completely wrong blow up at some stage, complete the over leverage and create cascine liquidations within the market at some point during this cycle. And so you know, we're we're kind of setting ourselves up for the the same game um that we've always seen. And I think options is the next stage of being able to build a way of structured products that involved bitcoin, a way till register ate investors start to think about how could we take the income from real estate converted into bitcoin, then use as collateral in order to borough more against IT to buy more real state um and this is just the the next wave of and bitcoin almost by default, becoming a bottom up with no government um you a big bitcoin standard for certain structured projects are products yeah .

interesting, Simon. Just I think just to be clear because there are some nuance, all of that would be in theory on bitcoin etf, not on bitcoin itself in this case yeah.

which is upon bitcoin because because .

i'm just saying that these products are interestingly, it's flow, especially its only black rack right now is going to absolutely explore the interest specifically in the etf that have these options approved on them, right, which is a there are some new ones there.

But then also add to the equation that we've now got a trump administration, a new leadership um hopefully within the E S C C and a wave of brokers and financial institutions that will now be able to apply for the license that would allow them to engage in these different types of products so that there is so much to come, so much growth, so much more liquidity and so and the same mistakes we made in all market to come in the traditional market as well.

The good news is that those mistakes, uh, are being made another assets in the traditional market as well. So I won't be just right and IT. So it's not something that will be unique.

bitcoin. These options exist on almost every legitimate asset on the planet. So this should be even they blow up. This should be different than a three arrows capital. And the contagion that went from you know through three arrows through all of the c five lenders and and such should be much more controlled if we do see those events from trade and it's not gonna the largest and funds .

on the planet. The difference is they probably borrow from the japan Carry trade and fed will bait out as opposed .

to borrowing IT directly from genesis who is actually creating the GPT c that you're borrowing yeah, we know, right? We have that show for two years that feels like so we don't need to go back down. But I do think that the region would be much more limited in this fashion.

And but I do think, to your point, there's going to be a lot of ways that people are going to find to utilize this to create yield right at me, even right now, I think I saw like eighteen percent uh h opportunity on the cash and Carry trade or something based on how far into container uh, bitcoin futures are versus spot Price. And that's a trade that almost everyone's gonna take. Go out, Matthew.

Hey, good morning, everybody. Um yeah and just wanted focus here on the fact that is basically a foregone conclusion that this is going to happen with anything that uh, has now been given an etf. So you're going to think that this is going to come with the theory pretty soon you've had slain X R P.

Filings are earlier this year. So the moral legitimacy that we get from a bitcoin perspective and see these options start trading, the more as a foregone conclusion. We're going to see this with other assets as well, which is just great for the overall sort of micro condition of the space.

I will say to that as somebody who has to go try to find options on bitcoin in natively, which is a difficult during the united states for for some structure products, it's considerably expensive to do with native bitcoin. So seeing these etfs come out uh with with option trading is is very good just because it's a much cheaper way to engage in these in building these products. So just excited to see IT from that perspective um and certainly another great way to stack yield .

big IDE from like babble yeah mean, should the relative volume surrounding bitcoin, not on training bitcoins specifically ally, go up by, I can't even guess the multiple text x multiple because of these options like people that weren't necessarily going to trade bitcoin self who now find ways to think of to do even just first strategies that effectively have nothing to do a bitcoin just because the opportunity is there. This should bring insane amount of volume to the seek system.

absolutely. And just the exposure that the that the regular retail person can get, you know even on Robin hood, for example, you can now build bitcoin latter or bitcoin structured the derived dance in in your own portfolio using using Robinet like the retail investor is sabi enough can start poll and yield on this stuff pretty, pretty quickly.

And it's it's awesome to see. I'm glad to Robin hood because I have person reason to talk about IT today. Um you guys have seen that few days ago Robin heard obviously with the ship the shift in regime in the united states decided to realize some assets and also to uh list X R P.

So Robin hood clearly making huge moves here, not waiting for trust to be in power to kind of make the statement that h they're not in fear of the regulators anymore. But there was a huge piece of news today and actually one of my very closest friends companies, but Robert d purchase, trade P M R, uh, which is, uh, R I A. Uh, could we have you here? Matthew?

Um are a registered investment advisor platform. They have about forty billion assets under management. So obviously a huge custodian, also a software company. But what is so interesting about IT? Besides, in fact, it's of my close friend that was basically the last privately owned a uh, standing of that size uh which is why obviously had made such sense for Robin n hood to purchase them.

But Robin hood now opening credit cards and trading platforms and theyve long said that they want to get involved in custom, involved in cup and institutional trading and adoption. Well, by purchasing study and R A platform, now Robin hood can effectively handle any institutional volume and client that comes their way. Um so Robin hood really putting their money where their mouth is on making themselves be everything platform for you know finance, institutional and retail in the united states.

So math kind of what you're talking about there. Imagine what now Robin hood can do for institutions, not just retail with all of this if they are a have a registered investment advisor and also uh custodian and at now another you know forty billion assets under management with the institutional grade custodian with three hundred million dollar deals are pretty large purchase um but he was pretty much the only one they could purchase at this point you know so a really just an incredible move. I think by Robin hood what I mean Matthew, realize as N R A like how do you view Robin hood sort of whole file move into every day now?

Well, certainly this is hugely bullish, ed, for the R A space in general because there are so many these institutions that just don't do this. I, I, I personally went around january the earlier this year and asked twenty five different wealth managers in my space what their ecri pto strategy was, and one of them wanted to talk to me. So my plan is to go back in january this year, knock on the same doors and have that conversation, because so many of these different R A S exist.

Wealth managers exist, family offices exist and they are they're allocating half a percent, maybe one percent of their assets to this or seeing that kind of client demand and coupled with people's R A A sorry a coupled with people's I R S or their um their retirement accounts that can now be moved into bittorrent or other you know suo derivatives in this innocence that the wave of capital that can come in to this this ecosystem that is on the sidelines and not legitimized by R A S or advisory uh is just massive. So great great news to hear. Um from this perspective of the whole sale move is the way to go.

And for those aren't necessarily where qualified custody is really, really important for institutions because you can't just hold your cyp to a on on an exchange or no on, let s not a very good way to do IT. So there's a lot of try party agreements that are going on between institutions, the custodian and the and client that allow them to um you know engage yeah not your key is natral pta but it's a much safer, insecure way for these uh institutions to our institutions pension funds and downes whatever um to to provide custody that secure and insured. So if anything does happen, they're made whole.

Yeah and also back your commercial, we've had privately and i've been slow obviously to move on the things that we discussed but twenty four million uh customers, right? So Robin is twenty four million customers. That's all retail that just obviously largely huge Younger we know the clients of Robin hood R I S are in this foreign sit of basically only custody or managing boomer wealth and not being able to answer questions about bitcoin.

Encrypt a right. And there needs to be a solution for that. So think about what happens now. And you have twenty four million customers and growing on Robin hood, who at some point are largely going to inherit some wealth from their parents.

What's gona happen to the register? Investment advisers have been handling their parents money when Robin hood is now in our IT, right? I mean, adult, you think that, uh, that service being offered by their trusted exchange and platform is going to be where they're going to go. And this is just a brilliant move by Robinet.

Yeah and if they can start to automate some of this, I mean that the truth is you still want that. Why love service you still need somebody there to talk to you about your investment goals, your risk know your risk status like where you're trying to be from perspective and and they do need to help people Better understand that one thing too. That's like an interesting opportunity that we're seeing.

So many the clients that come to us are already fully allocated into cyp. Ta, we've imported to between eighty one hundred and million dollars in assets under management, and ninety eight percent of that has already allocated to cypher to but the brilliant seeing with the brilliant thing with Robin hood here is from a financial adviser perspective as a fiduciary is your jobs say maybe we should look at some less risky things in your portfolio. Maybe you should just have a slice of the p five hundred index, for example, wouldn't not be an interesting flip of the coin.

So that now now we're saying to pension funds, put one percent in bitcoin. We're telling retail people and maybe put one percent in the S M P. Five hundred index. It's our job to help them do risk away from some of that too. So being a platform like grab and hood gives you the ability to engage with all of those assets in a wide variety of ways that you can build a portfolio that helps people generate and sustained wealth for the long term.

And your real and your registered investment advisor will will be able to basically optimize your strategy with all of the things Robin and had has to offer, you know. And all the things here for that thing is just a huge move. And all of us and we talk about this institutional adaptation and the government is all at before.

It's all just one huge story to me, which is that big quant encrypt have officially made IT and now is sort of this two year opportunity are not saying that democrat will take the house years, I don't know, but generally you see sort of a swing back in the other direction uh, after one party is fully in power for years. But at least two to four dia period here where we can sort of prove that this industry is worthy uh because it's like all bets and rules are off. All the things we ever dreamed of seeing are happening right now.

I mean, press them in your lawyer encysted L I D heavy lennon on my show this morning. And IT was an interesting conversation because he said, you know, it's been years and years and years and effectively having to tell client, no, you can do that. I don't know, probably can do that.

The regulator might come after you to this sort of what seems like could be a free for all. I mean, how does this change for you, as you know, a lawyer who Operates in this face advising clients. I mean.

that's right. And not only it's really annoying because i'm actually qualified in two jurisdictions, but the U. S. Uh, a couple of U S. States, the district, colombia and in london whales. And so it's annoying because you see that the rest of the world figure this out, right they understand how to have crypt of business happen you know on a Normal regulated basis and the united states hasn't. So I think um it's very encouraging to see the changes that uh that that have been proposed by the trumpet administration.

Um you know obviously the proof be in the putting and I think the fact that T M T G uh is considering buying back is is a sign is to certainly where people who are adjacent to the president, I think it's like I think he turned over if memory serves, he turned over data management of the family business to his his two older sons some time ago. And it'll be in a blind trust when he's the president, so he won't actually have any influence over that. But IT tells you who's around them, right? And what they're thinking is ah and we know that from his appointments you know jd match was the coast sponsor of or he was developing A A companion built to fit twenty one in the senate.

I think the twenty one is dead. We'll see what happens. And what that gets replaced to with the viv roms for me is obviously very plugin with cyp du. He he paid a mage to the libertarians up at pork fast three years ago or two years ago and that kind of what ground zero for bitcoins used by Normal people um although if you can call libertarians to go to pork fast, of which I am one Normal people, that that's a matter of debate but no it's it's really encouraging.

Um we there was a lot of saying no IT was really annoying over the last couple of years because usually what you want to do you want to say no but here you can make some changes here, here and here and if you do that right like that will be different. But to be blunt, but for example, taking right is is a prime example. You can do pull staking in the united states right now.

So despite the fact a lot of the rest of the world you can and and the fact that pulled staking isn't really an investment contract to a security, at least that shouldn't be is helping someone interact with the protocol and then you take a slight fee and then the fees get paid back to you. Um it's the protocol that's doing the work there, not some you know capital at risk. And so they've labeled a pull staking platforms like crack in, for example.

Uh, coin base was going to have a platform called earn, which they shut down. They're said that those are unlawful securities and you can Operate them here in the U. S.

And so you can say, well, you know, you could offer you know something where you are providing just a software as a service and economically, you can put together the exact same deal except you user, you need to be Operating the node yourself and we're just providing a bunch of I T. tools. But economically, the outcome would be exactly the same.

And one of those things in the united states is not lawful. And the other one is but of course, the one that is law is impossible for users to use. That means that you can use institutional third party custody services like bit goes. So you're actually exposing your users to more risk.

So like it's one of those things where the law is creating this perverse arrangement, which is actually worse for her to market participants than Better so IT IT remains to be seen what will happen um but yeah lately the the answer of no, no, no has turned to well, actually the likelihood is that we are going to have market structure regulation. Trump said he's going to do IT the first hundred days. We don't know whether that's the case, but it's reasonable to suppose that a given that his taking meetings with brian armstrong in particular, that we're going to see some pretty significant changes in the U. S. In the very future president.

even on on top of that. So I summing you obviously have to talk client. Yes, we could see regulatory change. We could see legislative change and action. But I think there's also a sentiment that even if we don't get that, at least you're not going to be attacked for trying things.

I know I know actually that's not, generally speaking, the advice that I would render if you yeah I mean, like I can't tell you what I advise individual clients but like trusting the government for bearance is going to save you right? Because trump s in power is not a good strategy. Um so and I like Polly, market I think is a prime example of that.

Um a lot of people have looked at Polly markets say, oh, it's political. It's a political hit job. If you talk to practitioners in the industry, they're going to give you a very different answer and they've had a very different answer for a while as as to what was going on there.

So I think if if there is a regulatory violation, um I don't think any responsible layer will say, well, Donald trump being in office is gonna change that. Um you know if you can do if if it's a questionable issue, right? I think it's going to break more in favor of entrepreneurs. Now we're as in the last three years, it's broken morn favor of the of the enforcers um but ultimately the real in the real me right the meeting and potato here the question is are we going to get legislation which legalizes this activity in the the united states? I think the answer to that is yes but I mean, i'm not playing you know you play .

fast and loose with the current devils advocate, for example, Robin hood relisting things that were passively named an enforcement actions against crime base and and in those suits, right, like the I remember this specific assets off the top of my head now.

But we know that every time the S, C, C would bring an enforcement action, they would list the number of things is unregistered securities without actually ever going to those companies and telling them they were on register security, right, or taking and directly against them. I think that now people are going to be a lot more are comfortable, I shall have said, just Operating in the united states, uh, considering launching things, getting prepared for that legislation and regulation. I'm not saying ah you know we should have wholesale like being launched in the united states.

I actually think that people are coming. You will be able to do things that are Normal. And other countries .

in crypto here, yeah if you look at Robin hood, they release .

the same exactly, exactly. I didn't wait. They just said, okay, these things obviously aren't current and truck without your launch. World liberty financial, I think you're good.

Yeah the one ones I listed was a therapy uh cardon a salona and pepper I think yeah X R P I I.

D had never listed actually so that X R P that remember .

X R P also has that favorable ruling from judge Torres in the southern district um where is judge tourists? Said the the the thing basically is Louis co. In h Louis cohen, a very prominent crypto layer, arguably the best transaction crypto lawyer alive um and he wrote a very, very long he won a lot of your article and then wrote a very long books length treatment of the subject where he went through every single a pallet decision regarding the how we test and try to establish whether the subject matter of the transaction, right, whether that be oranges in the case of how we or beaver pelts or you know whatever else GPU, I don't know. So any the actual subject matter of the investment contract was itself an investment contract.

And he couldn't find a single supporting authority for that and that book and that work was actually cited in judge tourists decision IT was cited by both parties in allegation. And then Judith is alluded to IT in her ruling. So there's there's stronger there are stronger arguments to be made now that a secondary sale of an X R P tok and dozen constitute investment contract.

At the moment, right there are two views of this. We had A A decision that of the district of columbia regarding finance, which concurred IT wasn't a formal concurrence, but he concurred with the conclusions from the ripple case. And then we had judge captain, I believe, in the terrorite case, who took a different view. And now of course, i've got the state court ruling in california from yesterday about dawns where they said the door tokens, rap and holding a token is holding a partnership interest, which of course, we would break the other way that break the favor of a finding that IT was security. So we've got this genuine dispute and among the courts of this country as to what the legal classification of these things is. And so I think with the prospect of market structure regulation and the fact that the courts don't agree how what the legal treatment of the underlying is supposed to be, Robin hood would look at that and they would make a risk, you know, risk waited decision as to whether listening is a good idea or not. I think right now, the factors would probably weigh in favor of a .

listening decision .

rather .

than against .

IT layer did had that before yeah um I think that the um but I lost my my trend .

come out welcomed to my life. Anybody else haughts specifically on this? Simon, you are obviously jumping in there as well.

Uh, think i'm done as you think of kind of want to say perfect.

I think we largely covered a lot of things. I know you want to take over.

Yeah, yeah, for sure. We we also have blast for all who is who here today. We've joined us on the show before, but are coming today to do a bit of an update on on how they've been so so blast for you. Why don't you open the floor and just tell us what even up to us in your T. G.

Yeah hey everyone, thanks for having us on the show. So yeah, we launched dr. Token last week. I most get IT as many people as possible. I have to say that I was maybe not the smoothly sAiling.

So we've come on here to a little bit of a mere coa and explained to everyone who's followed us, what's happened and why and what we onna do to address IT. So that is kind of funny because right now crypto is absolutely ping. That's amazing.

But actually I had some kind of ramifications for us, which quite as unexpected, and that was high gas fees on ef. So what happens is we are a lot of people who are playing our game. They managed to clean token, but when they wanted to trying get that hooking out, they were presented to some really high gas fees, which is not something that we anticipated.

We did think that the market would improve, especially with a trump selection results we didn't expect to be having cropt at all time highs four days in the rose, that kind of all us on the way. And if something were working on so what we're trying to do is we're trying to smooth and and optimize all the process in our game as far as possible gonna. Try and make sure that everyone in our communities, while we're rewarded for their effort that they've put in, and we committed to making the best possible game that we can.

That said, we work in a more updates. We are going to be announcing what's coming in the new update quiet soon. We're going to continue to make lots of new content.

We're going to continue to add utility to our token. We still really believe in um web through in gaming, we think is gonna a big player in this upcoming cycle. And we are determined to do IT without project.

And yeah, we going to continue from string to strength. We ve got a great product. We've still got a tons of people play in our game. We've got around four hundred thousand month players. We're looking forward to reward those players with bigger and Better things as time continues.

Yeah I mean as a uh a theory um holder and long time believer I I tend to love high gas fees cost to me that means oh people are gna need to be able to purchase more theory um because they're going to need to pay their gas as fees. And and I need to see IT as a pretty bullish indicator for a theoria actually going up here. And I am anxiously anticipating that as well.

But I can certainly see the chAllenges for for a game whose settlement is is on east to be launching in an environment when east gas fees are kind of going and in a matter of a few weeks for two great even until forty eight. Um so just with that in mind, what else did you guys learn from the T G. And in the launch that you guys are going to be Carrying forward?

Yes, a really great question. So I think we learning that in order to have optimized demand, you kind of point out there that I think using if as your main token is, uh, maybe not the best approach do that, maybe we need to consider having a sort of sub chain or layer to helping us out to make a smoothly for people played in the game.

At the same time, I think IT is important that you know the big change like a theory, have a lot of liquidity on there, which is one of the major reasons we chose to launch our 才有可能 的。 So I think it's you know is finding this sof middle ground for everyone in the space is important. Um I I think that's about the really big little done.

So ah china is really smooth out the flow, making sure that your web three natives are able to access the full liquidity of system, but making sure that your game is are also able to access the game in a smooth way and a two sort of world don't collide, but work well together. I mean, I I still think that in the space is so of maybe something is missing like a really smooth layer two to kind of work between two spaces. We ourselves are working with immutable. Um we also maybe considering some other options, but I think this is not quite the the right time to fully utilize those systems in game, but is something that we're looking at because I think it's something is really important for everyone going forward that we find that solution as just gonna help take games mainstream. And that's all we're really trying to achieve without title.

So so what's next for the game? I I assume with players who have tokens within the it's kind of a waiting period for for gas fees to go down for for that settlement, but maybe talk about what's next for the game but also, uh, what's next for for players and mahele tokens. Yeah, absolutely.

So we've got a new update that will be coming out quite soon in a few weeks time. It's going to have new game mode, is going to have new special event. Some of these events you can actually only access if you hold a new token at something that we really wanted to do.

We wanted people to so of understand that, that was really pivotal to the experience to get the most out of IT and have a lot of fun doing that. We've got two new weapons coming in the game to have fun. We will have got certain holidays coming up as well.

So we're going to be trying some things up into those holidays. Um this is so certain uh, currencies and special effects and special events that will take to account with thanksgiving and Christmas, which is coming up so people will have have fun doing that and that we're going to continue from going drunk to strength. We actually run live streams for our game.

H every week we got five times. Today we have one on thursday we're onna. Continue to do when to continue rewarding everyone who participate in our community, keyboard the game and make a big a Better, more about us.

To great to a great outlook to have. I mean, it's gaming in general and web three is so nation. So I feel like it's very important for builders just kind roll the punches and be solution oriented rather than seeing things as A A chAllenge that they can get past.

So cool to you for that. Um are there any other results that you can want to share from your launch? Like like maybe the number of users, token holders, are any results that you want to break about?

Yeah, I see what I think I might get my cohoes reni to come appear and say something on this regard.

Hello, hello. Can you hear me?

Yeah, you're good morning. Loud and clear.

Okay, fantastic. Yes, no. So it's been a, it's been an absolute adventure. But I i've gotta say that we are we 把 ramp up。 We've certainly hit some some nice small stand.

Uh, i'm not sure if i'm going to repeat anything and I was just said here, but um during A T G ramp up, we we hit A A peak of twenty five thousand daily active players, and we managed to a think uh about three point five million new tokens inside the game by A A A look to air drop campaign， which was a yeah quite quite A A fun fun time for people to cannot be able to spend the token that they are about to get before it's even launched. Um uh yeah some real nice traction. Uh I mean we already hit sort of eight hundred thousand in skills before we even got to the to the T G E high.

Um so now sort of we we working towards that are two million mark, which would be our next milestone. So ah yeah right now for us, it's all about continuous news efforts building out the token sinks inside of the game um before we get closer to that global launch. So ah yeah it's just it's just been a really chaotic but yet very exciting time for us. H over a gloss around right now.

So so many first off, congratulations just done the number of users that you guys have been able to get. I feel like users, especially for for defy projects like uh because that that's kind of my background, just being a developer and very deep and defy eighty five daily active users in one day sounds incredible for for web three, how does that compare to to other game five projects? Like like where does that compared .

your competitors in terms of user? But yeah, I mean, look, we were before we got to this ramper period, we we were already seeing sort of uh ten to fifteen thousand daily active users uh in our game, specifically on the web to front already. But yeah he hiding that peak of like eighty five thousand D A U.

And even after the loop to wardrop campaign is finished, we're still in the range of forty to fifty thousand daily active players um where you know a lot of those farmers have moved on. So so we're certainly up there in the in the the top five um of uh all game projects at the moment in terms of actual real users playing in our game um without high um you know massive incentives, earning mechanisms directly a right now. So you know add in a few of those on top, you can imagine how uh um not easy, it's gonna, but how you know how much more traction we are going to be able to attracting in the coming mum says we develop out those beaches.

that's and that's impressive. H and not sure how granular you guys are able to get with your data. But one thing that really gets me excited about game fire, just this prospect that IT can be excEllent of bringing new people into web three and expanding that pie like we talk a lot about on the space, like speculating on what's next for bitcoin, the new trump regime, is that super bullish for the industry.

But one thing that I feel is missing is just that, that catalyst to bring new people in, who may otherwise not be investors, maybe they're not buying bitcoin, but they do play games and we could on board them. So do you have granular data on maybe how many of these active users are uh, new to web three? Maybe the the assets of the winding game or their first ever crypto assets? Any estimation?

This is actually something take quite a bit of pride in. And over the last three years of developing our game with all of the uh sort of the beter stage and now sort of h getting closer to that global launch we brought in uh so many people from web to that had to sort of interact with our game. We've always we've always made IT very easy and super free to play experience where they just feel like they play and an absolutely a Normal game.

Um but yeah, we've we've been prioritized and understanding and how many people have been on board into the web three side of our game. And h we have just over fifty five percent of all users that's now after one point two million a total install have uh engaged with a with three uh layer layer of our game. So h that's included the N F T the new tokens um and yeah it's you it's quite high considering we haven't fully are developed all of the a the the login system where almost I mean, I will be one hundred percent at that point where they are instantly are involved in with three, even without realizing.

That's great. I mean, i've been pretty vocal on these spaces just about i'm not somebody who games on a daily basis, but but I love that IT can really expand the pie. And actually last night, I I downloaded ed off the grid for the first time and played IT for like five minutes just to kind of see okay, what's the experience gonna be like for a new person coming into uh game five playing a again that they perceive is fun um and see what that's like and so i'm interested to hear if there's been any feedback from these new users like are they appreciating the wet three features and DNF s and things like that in the game? Like what have theyve been chatting about?

What's the experiment? Ah absolutely. I think this is again like the way we've been doing all of this is actually uh, at the forefront of how we develop our game is that you are not going to downloaded our game and be hit with web three.

You're not gonna be hit with a crypto term, any blockchain tech terminology. You are going to be hit with a good game, uh, a fun game, as long as you enjoy this type of game. And then there are going to be options and new experiences for you to get involved with. So you know, as IT stands, a web two user who just likes mobile top down shooter games might downloaded our game. And they could take them days.

You could even take them weeks before they they notice, you know, that we've got some, some interesting kind of currency that then they check out the info tab and they actually you brings them to understand that they can actually do something really cold with this uh this uh currency inside of our game more than just, you know click the currency and bite some to uh some standard cosmetics. So ah yeah honestly, the way we've been doing IT uh are our our community of gamers that a game is first uh, most of them now have clipped their wallets. Most of them are now the N F T.

And bringing them cool characters into the game. So honestly, I think when we first started three years ago and we were just kind of kick in this off, people like wow one of is this um but now you know even the web two gamers are explaining IT for us. They helping new new uh new game is set up there, wallet and step.

So honestly, i'm not seen any friction at all at the minute, and I expected to get even easier as we improve that log in flow. And the you know the the the adoption of getting their own wallets and things like that or however, that actually uh becomes so uh yeah really, really positive from from our community. Uh, thus far.

that's what that's wonderful. And and can you tell us a little bit just about what that on boarding process looks like? Like if somebody y's download the game, like what are the steps that they take to actually touch web three for the first time?

Yes, right now we we are still in beta, right? So we haven't even you know fully fully added all of the a the the the logging flows, which uh where we have the the wallets seamlessly within that logged in flow, and it's all done automatically. So actually right now, people just go to the APP store, you click download, you play the game um and at the easiest way for people to get involved right now, IT would be a case of they're going to be earning some of our move tokens inside the battle pass or they go to uh you know winter h some tokens or maybe even the N F T. In one of a leader contest throughout the month.

And then when IT comes to uh you know, getting access to them, they can either just use them directly in the game straight a boy or they would come over to out this god and um they would know create a wallet, uh, with everyone else inside this god. So right now there is a slight friction in terms of they do need to have some sort of set up and they do need to actually consciously do IT. Um but again, there has been any actual friction and negative feedback from IT.

But what we're looking to do is just go ahead and all of that by you know making IT all in APP um and making IT just a few clicks of our button, especially when IT comes to integrating an actual marketplace, whether every single cosmetic inside our game becomes an N F T and it's all traded with our nube token. Uh and you don't have to come outside of the APP and all of the wallet and everything is seamlessly done for you. Uh, all behind the scenes.

No terminology, just click k click and you can start rate in. And then if you're super curious and maybe you you're actually interested in, they know the speculation side of things you are already equipped native. You can very easily identify what that looks like and how to you take IT even outside of the game and get involved with the web 3 world outside of the game。 But um these are all steps and you know down the line um you know we're still at that beter stage and and and one thing at time is being developed.

Wonderful congratulations on the a the launch. And uh I assume there's probably some listeners here who maybe didn't hear your last A M A. So maybe if you could quickly give an overview on exactly how the new token is used and and then also touch transform called the actions of anyone of the audience wants, download the game and and how they can follow along.

Yeah absolutely. So I mean, right now a new token basically what you can do inside about game if you can buy, uh, cosmetics so you can go to the shop, you can use your new token s to buy exclusive or very limited cosmetic ics. Um we are going to be adding a feature in the next stop date, and i'm happy to share this out for with you guys. But essentially what this is gonna look like is that you can enter a specific game mode, uh, where you actually have to pay with the is new tokens to compete against other gamers in A P V P scenario. And h you bet that the the winner takes all.

And um if you don't win or you don't come in the in the top ranks of that that match, uh then you might not come off uh as wealth as when you started, which he adds a sense of risk but excitement in the game, right? So that's just a little sneak peak of what you can do uh with the new already um uh as well as uh yeah the the big plans. We've got four new token inside the game.

But if you want to get involved to IT very simply, you know you can go across to uh uh some marketplaces to buy new tokens um and then you can get straight involve by downloading our game. It's it's that simple. And we also have nfd, which have various different benefits related to the dog in itself as well.

excEllent. Well, thanks running for joining us today and also the blast page, and thank you to the audience. If you guys we're tuning in, make sure that you get blast follow um I I certainly keen to follow along and how is how this goes and all of attraction because I am pretty passionate about just a web 3 gaming bring in new users to to our industry。 So thanks to the speakers as well.

Make sure that you give them a follow um and will be back tomorrow with another episode pto town home. So everybody enjoy the tuesday. Have a wonderful day. Thanks everyone.