Peter St Onge: Liberty, Central Banks, Sound Money & Free Speech - MOB017
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The problem is, if you make the remote, racy, independent of politicians who is IT serving, if the bureaucracy doesn't have to listen to politicians, well then doesn't to listen to people. So who exactly is running IT, right? Who is a serving? And the answer empirically is that IT becomes to self serving, occupying army.

IT has its own goals. And empirically, sort of the logical interest group for that independent barkley to a lie with is socialist. Because the bureaucracy socialists do have the same goal, which is that they want more government control.

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I think IT was more because I don't I don't want to travel anymore. I think I say that one, i'm here. This trip was already broke, so I already had two weddings and go australia book. I don't want to travel anymore and I i'd like in person and fees yeah so I was like.

fuck that if you don't like travel but you like person and yeah so it's like.

what can .

I get .

in london? How many more times can .

we talk .

about IT .

recording .

to .

bring them?

Yeah yeah. Do you know about I don't.

I live in orlan. Du h, okay.

here are the other side. I wouldn't .

moved here from we're so badly .

run yeah I I know, I love, I like the weather is great.

Great city. yeah. Great energy.

Shit tax. yeah.

The management is so broken off. I mean, every element, right? There's trash on the highways.

You like driving a round trash on the highway. I mean, you know even detroit keeps highway clear. I think it's just it's funny.

The blue states get the I think get the the energy, the creative side right and they get the governance completely like.

yeah I was probably connected probably like liberative ves yeah, I mean, that was actually like a sob strategy. I was IT. yeah.

They like no one to two to sort of market communism among the artistical leads in the west. They poured tones of money into that. There was actually some documents a couple years ago that modern art is basically like a kgb.

Siop is just complete bs. They wanted to, like, debase western cultures. So they fed all this money to people like gain the war hall and what not, try to kind of promote this stupid modern art.

And the idea was that the soviet union would have the beautiful subway stations with the sand delay is all this classic art. And so people would associate that in their minds. And then the west mean, that will be this debate, you modern crap.

And, I mean, IT worked to charm. This is from, like the new york times, a one out right now. You know, all media coming up with this, like this is an actual kgb plot IT completely worked. And of course, you know, one, two brainwashed people. They think they don't want to accept that they were brain wash, right? So even once these articles came out like left wing media talking about how modern a is a side, like a crazy, then you know they keep .

going to .

exist in a member .

london. Yeah I love IT I right um i'm happy to go to the traditional tate um but take is pretty good because you will get a mix of things you will get you get my friends is Baker and and you'll get dari I mean bit I don't .

dally consider mother yeah still .

tasted that's not far from you I know did you know .

is that no i'm a total sanker on her.

So I took my kids to disney land once, and we got fucking bored after three days. What else should we do? We like gate land.

And then we looked out. We found I was like this. There's a di museum in sb as well. He was couple of drives off. We win this incredible .

use .

dipped .

gater land for that.

though in the gay land, we saw the alo gata and then we went out to the daily music. Yeah.

he was cool, but I don't even .

know it's yeah that is the largest, a collection of done .

of all places yeah yeah, it's MPA basically .

beyon temper. But yeah, basically economy. Now i'm modern, not loving. Call me yeah and yeah, I believe we should. Well, we've got a coming .

government in.

well, this way I wanted to see you, man. So i've been wrestling with a lot, right? We we got a shady government in the U.

K. Right now. It's incredible. Yeah, that is succeeded. A previously shitty government. And you're about to have an election here where a shady government might replace a shady government.

And i'm at that point now, i'm like to people even know what they vote him for anymore. They do they truly understand. Because if you go, I went to look is like what is the most important thing for voters? There's always a lift.

But number one always comes up is the economy. But the economy continue continuous. Ly gets worse.

I think our taxation in the U. K. Is gone for like the last twenty years. GDP is gone up from like thirty three percent, forty one percent to go higher. Looked at the change across the europe is over fifty percent in belgium we keep voting for having less money.

Yeah and I think there's a reason for that, which is you've got two layers of government. You've got the one that you elect, the the the politicians, the potter um you know sort of sector and then you've got the bureaucracy and the bureaucracy. This is something that really happened across the west.

But there was this movement in the and hunters to make the bureaucracy independent of the politicians and in the us. Anyway, that was driven by corruption concerns, right? So the government is always corrupt because the guy who owns IT is not the guy who is running IT, right? So government will always be corrupt.

If you go back through history, and you look at every single war in the history of mankind has just been shot through with corruption, you know, they buy rotting food for the soldiers and jonas sofa, right? Governments are just, by nature, corrupt. Maybe if you've got like an absolute monarchy, it's not because it's treated like a family business, but the way governments are corrupt.

So in the nineteen century, there is movement in the U. S. Anyway, to professionalize the bureaucracy by making an independent of politicians. So rather than having this so called spoil system, right where every time they win an election, they give jobs, their bodies in this, the ideas you would have, this independent bureaucracy.

Now the problem is at the pental tonight.

yeah, exactly. I am I literally came up in my is my book was told .

me about IT because he was saying what would happen and this is some of the fears were trump ah because of the things jay vantine san is that will trump would wanting going just replace everyone with his own people but the pental thing that stops him, right? And he was explained me, this is really important because otherwise you essentially the whole of government becomes a monopoly for that party, for that party's policies. And then IT could become very difficult to remove them, right? So, yeah.

so I learn a thing. Yeah, no, actually done. yeah. I'm actually very impressed from all the way across the bond.

The problem is, if you make the remote, racy, independent of politicians who is IT serving, right? So the only voice that the people have on other government is run is the politicians. And that's by design, right?

So if the biocon acy doesn't have to listen the politicians, well, then IT doesn't have to listen to people. So who exactly is running IT, right? Who is the serving? And the answer empirically is that IT becomes a self serving, occupying army.

IT has its own goals. And empirically, sort of the logical interest group for that independent bark cy to elie with is socialist because the bureau cracked. Socialists do have the same goal, which is that they want more government control.

This was a discussion I was having somebody recently because in the U. K. Over ously, we have on the right the conservative, on the left labor.

And I like, I think they're both socialist because but we think of the left of socialist. But I just think there are less. And sorry, the cause of is a less socialist, right? But this is essentially socialist.

I mean, we have a huge world thursday. We have dn H S. We have a huge recovery distribution system. So it's to me, it's just a spectrum of socialism. Yeah.

it's a problem. I mean, formally, that battle was lost in one thousand and thirteen with world, world one. And ever since then, again, sign with U.

S. history. Just I know Better. Before world war one, you can say that we had a two party system.

We had two different ideologies in the us. So the democrat party was certainly small government, the so called burden on democrats, they flipped. yeah.

And the republican party were sort of these religious, not jobs who wanted to reform earth and making to the reflection of like the second coming of Christ. And I mean, they were shot through with, literally serve religious for antics. And so those with the two parties.

And so the republican party was very activist, and they want government to control more things to save people from themselves. In the democrats party was the party of leave me alone. And generally, that democrat party was popular among immigrants coming to the us, because the the sort of first wave of americans were these kind of religious, not jobs.

The puritans, and in subsequent right waves generally came for jobs, right? Their irish, italians, germans, lot on more catholics who were not as religiously minded, and generally all they wanted to be left alone, right? They want to be part of this great project for the remaking of earth, Chris paradise. And so that's kind of how the parties broke down. And the problem is by in the U. S.

Law, the dynamics had to do with the civil war where the democrats were temporarily very weak because they wear associated with slavery and with they were sort of seen as traders but going in to the progressive area so talking like one hundred one thousand um really both parties flipped over to where they became two versions of the republican party. So the republican party didn't change IT was still, they sort of active, is not jobs. And the democrat party became the super republicans, right? So they leapfrogged with them and became even more extreme in the us.

Anyway, ever since then we've really had two flavors of the same party, and you can see IT and voter turnout, right? So if you look back before the parties sort of compete each other turned out in the us. Was much, much tired in election.

So IT was sixty percent plus. And now it's like forty to fifty percent. So a huge portion of population has been disenfranchise. I think that actually that doesn't reflect the full move because a lot of people to sort of hold their notes like I do, right, you know.

I want run, paul to win this year, but unfortunately, that's not realistic, right? And so I have to choose between the lesser of two evils. So a lot of us have to do that where we've actually been this and franchised. We no longer have the choice of a true sort of libertarian party, so instead we have to decide which of the two parties is least socialists. And unfortunately .

the build are yeah I think we have a similar problem in the U. K. Um although I don't think the education around that was a socialism has been you know we didn't fight communism across the world like the U S IT, right.

So socialism is still seen a good thing by a lot of people in the U. K. And so but but both priorities essentially come to the middle.

I mean, they're both essentially high tax, high intervention, surveilLance Operates. That's what we have, both choices and the like. The vote I really think comes down to is the ideologies, but lost the vote now comes down to or they were terrible.

Will these be Better rather than, you know? So we had a huge, huge number. People just so sick of the conservative government would no conservative principles left at more that they voted for a labor government.

But this labor government so ineffective in the first hundred days, their popularity is already, they would indicates if there was another election today, they would lose because we've come in and all we've done is talked about higher, more taxes after a previous administration, which is higher, more taxes. And i'm said they going, how do we how how do we how do we break the cycle? Yeah because it's know it's to the point where is hidden people so hard.

I give you example. Yeah i've told about this food is I i'm about to open a little cafe in the town, right? And I have to pay business rates to open that just that my tax before I own money is about sixteen thousand.

I have to pay, if I do make a profit, to pay ee taxes. They bring their new employment laws. One of the things that talked about reducing is in the U.

K. If someone has been employed for two years, you can kindly get rid of them without any reasons only as you've not discriminated is essentially a two year probability period. They want to strip that down to, I think like nine months than six months.

Zero contract does get all full employment, right? So they they essentially almost a bit like argenton. And I want to make IT more, more difficult.

Get rid people. I prefer the U S. System as some of shit. Just get rid them. Yeah so you got all these um uh pressures on employment also, even if your zero contract hours, you have to provide holiday pay. So we have to provide maternity pay, all those things.

And on top of that, if you luckily make some profit, you will pay corporation tax. And then then if you do have something good and you pay a division, you pay a dividend tax. And on top of that, if you choose to save IT and you make any profit is they talk about raising, uh, capable gains. Action twenty third. And I guess the point you be Better, be Better.

Well, you saw Jerry Clarkson's show, of course.

of, yeah I mean that he somebody told me said, please watch this. His experience is reflects exactly what you're going through with everything you're trying to do in your town yeah it's just so much interference. I mean, didn't feel that building and they had to change .

because of the roof yeah right? And it's like they we're hunting him down. They were just trying to find the reason to destroy jobs, to destroy you know, local produce.

And I mean, he was he was doing gods work according to their retorts. He was locally sourcing goods and he was he on bringing back british farming, which is bed in decline. He was doing everything.

He was ticking every box. You sound like he was a google, you know, gentrifying sympathy's or something. I mean, he he was doing everything he supposed to be doing and look at what he ran into. And you, I mean, starting a cafe in bedford.

Well, the first thing with the football club had so many issues with the local council in the forbes club. All we want is an extension to the least. The man made the brand new man made the decision.

He didn't like us, wanted to get rid of us. Then he offered his released section, but tried to ban women from playing football. He's never accomplished as play.

And we SAT there went. But just hold on a second. You have to have send.

This club is followed internationally. We have people from all around the world coming to bedford. Our little town is no reasoning.

Money, sending money, staying in the hotel, go to the restaurant. We put on a conference. We filled every hotel in the town.

Every hotel room was solar. You can get a room. The restaurants before the cafe, you going to speak to local businesses, they were very grateful.

I said, we've got attention around the world. We've now got investors. We've billionaire stor camera work was, we've tovey in the press.

This is good for the town. This is objectively good from the town. On the back of this, we set up we've invested women football.

We set up a fund. We we took the profits from the event. And we know, uh, support local kids who are talented, who want to do some sports things that their parents can afford IT. Like we're objectively good for the town, right? I would have thought that man would say, coming and talk to me, how can I help you?

And there are governments to do that. Yeah you know singapore famously ah they have a department that sits down. And if you're going to invest in singapore, if people can start a business, they sit down and they say, how can we make this easy for you? You know, here's the different permits you going to need.

Here's the different regulations. They are people who sit there and help you get through this. And for all the money we pay in taxes, you would think that maybe right, because that something that pays back to the community, right? So if they can help you set up a cafe, or if they can help you get promote the full all club than this, then this spring, things back to the community.

IT becomes this dynamo where if you bring in a certain amount of business tourism, for example, that's gna start a bunch of little cafe and little businesses and little trinket shops, and then words start spreading and people say, hey, bedfords really cute. yeah. Then people start coming up for the weekend from london, right? Once that starts happening, IT can sustain itself forever.

And then you have this gorgeous, beautiful town. The property values go up. There's plenty of jobs. People can actually stay in town, right? Their kids don't have to run off the london.

So there's all these wonderful things that happened, but IT takes that Spark like you have the plan to cease. And for all the crap, for all the money you pay, for all these government services, they you don't not only do that, I care about helping you plant that seed. They don't know how.

I mean, these people probably have degrees and social work, or you know, maybe law, or I mean, none of them have any idea how business works. They have no idea how hard is is in the beginning that you if you've gotta start up, you are here by the city year pants. Like you don't know this thing is actually gona fly.

You don't going to lose on your money. It's much less stressful to just have a job. You can lose your mortgage.

You can lose your life savings. You not enough to work on weekends and three in the morning, they have no idea how hard IT is. And so they just roll in here, these these arrogant pricks, and just put barrier after barrier in front of you. And then they turned around in front of the cameras, and they, lemon, how the streets are, you know, empty and this almost people sleeping on the street, nobody comes and all the kids move away, just like, drop the penny. People, well.

we've we've ever win this, what you're like this one to tell you about this. But i'm power a group on trying to inspire A A bit of a fight back. But we had this thing in the ford called the bid uh but ford investment development or bedford development, whatever IT is, whatever the bit stand for essentially a congo ah so you have some called business rates.

So is based on the floor space of the properties of the cafe. I've got genuinely these about, say, four times the size. This room we see here i've to pay sixteen thousand pound. They have this weird rule at a certain size you want to pay IT.

So they've been cut in shops in half as you would, so you don't have to pay up and then you're shot half the size, which is obviously one of those stupid things people to do to get round that. But they wanted to improve the town. So to improve the town, they came up with this ah this bit thing, thereby a percent of your rattled value.

So two percent of what you pay on the rates you have to pay now additionally into the bid and the bid was a uh like this could go IT was how do you explain that if group of people in office who their job was to raise up and improve the town, okay, so they take the money in, they come up with different kind of ideas, you know, may be a bit of marketing? Yes, I think there's a thing with radios. So shops can speak each other about people who may be shop left in.

But IT wasn't transparent because IT wasn't Operating within a free market. You just paid IT every year. Nobody really knows what I did to fed up with IT.

And so IT became this kind of IT gets voted for the vote was this week or whether IT should be continued. I mean, I went in. There's a big email group in in australia when this is bureaucratic nonsense.

Get rid of that. We can privately organize. We can privately get together and managed the town that is failed. We got the email through today that is failed. It's scary.

And so i've said to these people that will get together, let's prove privately, we as a group of business owners in the town can make this run work. And so that's the next step is to try show to them because the council aren't doing their job. I mean, I went, I went in on them because we have that with a problem of cricket on the, in the townsend.

They be sympathetically to drug addiction. But at the same time, you walk down the high street, you will see two, three, four each time, and they're going in into very shop stealing, going off to get high that problem and solve them because IT affects the review of the shops. But he also stops, people want want to come into the town to fix that problem.

The council will haven't fixed that problem. They've been taking the money from the business rates but fAiling to do the things they should be doing in the town. So without one small win now is starting to go to yeah .

but you know the larger issue sort how we got here. I don't have you remember last year they had A G seven meeting out in europe or earlier this year. I think he was july and IT was famous because joe biden was wandering around looking at parachute.

Everybody sort of fall along behind, but there was a fun mean at the time where they listed out the approval ratings of all those leaders, right? So the g seven, you've got all the, you know, big countries in the west. And joe biden was a negative, like nineteen or something.

He was twenty points underwater in terms of approval. So how many people like him versus dislike him and the rest of them were, I mean, they were just awful. You know, canada, trudeau was like minus thirty five or something.

I think the snake was at like minus fifty. Germany was at minus fifty miloni was the only one who was close to ever SHE was like minus stan the japan guy was minus forty and is weird because so these are the champions of democracy, right? The west know, we now know, as we all face putin in the x central battle over the ombos, that, you know, these are the champions of the free world.

And if you look at their approval ratings, IT does not look like a democracy, right? Like the average leader of the g seven is like minus thirty. What the heck is going on here? right? Like that democracy.

You had one job which was to like people that the public supports, that the only purpose of democracy IT has many, many other flaws. But the one thing supposed to get right is it's supposed to like people who the public likes. And so that to me is kind of the biggest political mystery. I think that that's the source of a whole lot of this.

And you know how could that be happening all over the world? Like because I mean, IT is open, like anybody can run for office. Is not that already cost couple thousand hours you and I could run for president?

Uh IT is on paper and open system and you know the logic of IT um sort of dictate tes that the people who are leaders should at least be popular. Maybe they are useless, but at least they are popular. And in fact you're not.

And I think that the only solution to that is that the system is so corrupted that IT is not, in fact, choosing people who the public likes. Um you know if we look at the U. S.

Election, for example, IT seems like what they do is you have sort of, at the start of the gay, you've got a whole unch of people who might be popular earning as you've got Bobby Kennedy alys. And one by one, the world takes them out, right? IT just chisels away them, you know? I don't know he， what did he cut off a bear's head or whatever. I mean, they they just dig up crap about each individual one by one, until they have knocked them sort of fluff out the candles one by one, until the only thing that's left is something that nobody wanted. And I mean britain, japan is probably even worse than britain, if IT makes you feel any Better.

But britain seems to reached this point where he was going to be very discouraging for people because no matter which party right so you had what uh three uh tory prime ministers in a row, none of whom were tories in the least and they were just it's going to be just incredibly discouraged and like IT really doesn't matter which party you vote for, the corruption is happening on that other level right? When there's nothing out the candles one by one. And I think it's going to backfire on them because at this point, we've been so successful at IT that indeed voters are just absolutely disgusted.

I think they're disgusted in britain. H, I just came from japan and it's very similar there. So they had a failed a prime minister. He had improved al rating of fifteen percent one five in a democracy. Yeah, it's prety impressive.

And so now theyve got a new guy in there and guarantee you in a couple months he's going to be down in the twenties again because that you know their system is so I mean, japan is extremely corrupt in the political system, uh, and they you know have the same thing on steroid. So by the time that you managed to get in the running for prime minister of japan, you have snuffed oub so many candles that you're this very, very limited population of safe. You have calling to the a geriatric overlords of japan who who mismanaged.

And the end result is that the people effectively have no choice, right? The choice has been premade for them, so that by the time that they get to go to the polls, they're choosing between out of the thousands of beautiful candles that were raised on the table. There's just too left that have not been snuffed out by the system, by the money fundamentally. And then we've got to choose between sort of the lesser of two evils there.

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And look, I don't think they didn't particularly good way, but they recognize at one point we have too much debt. So we need austerity who is hugely unpopular. I don't think it's particularly easy for any government come in and say, hey, by the way of us, we're going to cut public spending and we're going to reduce the debt.

That means we also we have to whole bunch of services. That's why I think think the problem is because in the party comes and go fuck, we've got this bloated state. We've got this bloated day.

H. S. We've got to pay for everything, taxes. Seeds going to be about trillions currently, custom, one point one trillion.

And so our options is eyes like we have to raise taxes, which is going to is not gonna stimulate, grows as they think all we have to borrow more money, which is going to drive inflation. They stuck in this place where they don't have any options. I mean, for me, IT requires someone to coming with the integrity of backgrounds. Backbones say we have to make change, but IT feels like nobody nobody has any ideas how to change IT though also they will seem economically yeah and right.

I think it's a dead problem in the sense of the the size of government problem. And then the dead itself is done stream of that. And you know, part of that, or I think a lot of that has to do with the money.

So sort of triangles, the gold standard was a big constraints on how big government could get if government was limited and sized and they could take care. The important things, they could clear the pot holes and and tend to the street lights, but they didn't have the money to go until all these sort of government initiatives. They didn't have the money to harass people, right? So if you looked back at twenty ten, before world war wh, the british government was very, very smaller, was much smaller than the french government, for examples, the size of GDP.

And you see IT in government buildings from that era. For the government construction, they were beautiful, but they were small. I mean, was very, very different in the empire that you see today in britain, certainly in the us, where you just have miles and miles these massive buildings.

You wonder what are those people do in there? And a lot of what they do is sort of hunt down the reminds of the private sector. They destroy jobs for living, and then that leads all these other social pathologies.

But you know, this is part of why we're so interested. Bitcoin, for example, I mean, really in hard money, right, is that that can limit the resource, is that government can take. And you know, if we started to go back to um at least in the U S, the source of the problem and you again, a lot of these processes, they.

Really h happened on similar time scales uh, across the west sauce or in europe, in britain, but a few x one thousand thirteen in the two key elements of that government growth that sort of cancer were the income tax and the federal reserve. So central banking and those have, I think sort of has similar um dynamics across europe as well where governments have just grown massively. Of course, if they've in general new rope, you've grown even larger than they have in the us.

And what that you that that's choked off growth, that's choked off jobs. We look back to even as recently in one thousand nine hundred sixties in the us. Anyway, IT was typical that your children would make two to three times what you did.

Kay IT was standard that all people sit around and they just be amazed how easy you guys have IT right? Well, and we were kids. We walked up hill, both directions flip.

It's completely flipped.

Now you've got these these bombers who are sitting there and there no ocean front mansions, sort of peeling off hundred dollar bills for the kids and telling them to get a job mean things have completely flipped. And I think that's that's exactly the reasons that the government has grown to the point where IT has choked off the private sector.

And increasingly, you know, a lot of what prosperity we do have is sort of perversely funded by government, right? Coming back to the austerity question where you know, in a sense, there are millions of jobs now that are dependent on government payouts. The promise that those government piles are either dependent on inflation or they are dependent on tax rates that are so high that they end up wiping out the other jobs.

So the jobs that are lost, all those jobs that you used to double or triple al incomes and don't anymore because there's a massive number of jobs, those are all gone. We can even see those. What people can see is know the parts are linked to the austerity.

So government funding for uh for that or culture for really everything across the board. People can see that part of IT, but they can see the other parts that um that all that government spending has wiped out. And you know, historically, how do you get out from that kind of doom loop? I mean, the most common historically is you don't get politicians with spine and said they just kind of let IT go off the Cliff.

You get a crisis, and then during the crisis, things get fixed. So this is the soviet solution, the former soviet solution, where they had some reform to global jobs credit. Uh, you know, he did try to freed some things up and allows a small scale production.

But I mean, IT was too little, too late. The system collapse. They essentially just wiped IT out, thread away and started over. And if you looked today, stern europe is, I mean, in many ways it's I think it's a lot more successful. You know, if you walk through the city centers in poland or hungry or russia, despite this action.

levana i've done is incredible.

So maybe it's a silver lining that worst case scenario, they just drive IT off the Cliff and then we we do in east n europe. But IT would be really nice if we could fix IT before then um you know head IT off before he gets in the crisis.

And the problem there is that you if you look at politicians in most countries, IT is much, much easier to kick the can to just keep things going um when fires crop up here and there, uh you just you know shoot a trillion dollars at IT and hope that you can make IT go out. If you have some banks go down, if you have some some job crisis, then you just shoot a bunch of money. And I hope you fix IT, which of course accelerate the collapse. But that spend the pattern that's probably going to continue unless we get some politicians with serious spine.

But is that in the circles you mixing? And and i've spent a some time with some libertarians and a and some of them, I would say on the more I don't say extreme because sounds a majority, but on the more blatant of libertinism is just like rip off of the band. They cut IT all off.

But i've considered, for example, writing for mir, where I live in bedford, and there's like one of the differences I can make. And I know I know I can't get rid of child protective services. A lot of the welfare could be very difficult to get rid.

So so really that the area that you complain is quite limited. This things you can do, of course, but IT is limited. And also, I don't know whether the libertarians are right or not. It's it's not the ideas austral economics aren't really broadly well understood. Is you're in eh group a lot, so so you to make change, you have to sell something in.

So is there any kind of throw into kind of nudging things in a different direction? Um you know people like ramper, if we have more ramps, if we could you know if we could educate people about a how the economy actually works, how government can function, anything done there? Is anyone got any sense why IT is?

I mean, there is lot of people to try to engage in education. And to be fair, I think that we are making a tonne progress. Murray roth bard, who's in austrian economist, he in one thousand nine hundred seventies, he said that you could fit the entire liberty movement in a single living room in new york, which I think was true.

Yeah, right. And, you know, thanks to the internet. Thanks to iron mosque.

Yeah, to a large degree, thanks to, you know, many of us who are out there spreading these ideas, including you. You are a force for liberty. No, no, no.

you know, I have accepted IT. I like, I like, I think I think IT took me a few years to like really on the understand IT. I couldn't just agree with people because I told, right? Yeah, I had to.

And I think that I really understood by running businesses, yes, what i've seen, i've seen the council come after me, all the the mir come after me, or in the the the regulation that choke what i'm doing all the taxes. And now more recently with my foobar club, i've been charged by the fa for a photograph of the program. I'm seeing the attacks on liberty.

Yes, and I think I think economic tax are attacks on liberty as well. Yeah so I I like haven't lived there. Yeah i'm on the team.

Yeah i'm my huge fan of replacing high school with like give every kid twenty ten and have them start a business and just let them see how the real world works. Ah you know I think that would do wonder but yeah I think we are um winning the battle for hard some minds and you can see the evidence right?

Like if you look at faith and institutions, for example, faith in the news media, faith in the government uh, in the U S, for example, up until around the one thousand nine hundred and sixties, the vast majority of people in the U. S. They just absolutely believe the government of the government said that IT was gospel truth.

Faith in government was like eighty ninety percent. You still see in these remnants where, I don't know, you'll really like a magazine that would be like even the department of X, Y, Z thinks that this is a crisis. He sort of these throwback remnants to know this sort of lost age when people actually believe in this crap.

And now the majority in the U. S. Don't believe what they hear anymore. I think that's absolutely glorious. I think we're getting there in a number of european and countries even where you know traditionally places like finland or germany, there's been a lot of faith in uh, government's truthfulness and even that's breaking.

So I think .

that we are making a lot of progress. Now having said you know, in terms of policy, i'm completely with you that you have to take things incremental like if you go, you know if you try to above child services from day one, that may be philosophically the correcting to do, if may, may not. I mean, personally, I think know of course government has no saying that kind of thing.

You should leave IT to the torch system but you right, that's not necessarily what you're not going to win if you do that from day one. And there's an instructive moment, I think, which is during the seventeen hundred. So immediately preceding the french revolution, they had a prime minister in who was extremely laca fair, very small government, and he just came through and like, cleared out the economy, and he was glorious, right? This this was exactly the sort of dream scenario where he didn't wait for the crisis.

He just cleared house. And of course, if you do that all at once, then you've got millions of people who lose their jobs because they were living off taxes. And yes, you wants to fix that, but you don't usually fix that all on one right tuesday because if you do that now, you've got this huge reservoir of dissatisfaction.

And of course, that LED to the first revolution, and all those people lost their heads. So IT was the regime that followed once the revolution happened, was exit, was peak communism. IT was much, much worse then the government system that existed before that.

So I think that one does have to be careful. You want to go with the low hanging fruit. Its probably one of the most attractive is you stress government inefficiency. Um the government will always be an efficient IT will always be corrupt.

So you know you want to continually pound on that from the service of P R perspectives to remind people exactly how crude the government is, how you know IT is not serving you. IT is serving yourself, serving itself. And then the other aspect that I think you really want to pound on is taxi, and specifically taxes for the poor, I think, is how you go in.

So the poor, the working class, trump has been good at this. He's been emphasizing scared of taxes on tips, taxes on over time, basically any kind of tax that sort of sticking out, he says, go to give with that. And the attraction there from a sort of, you know, you might criticize that kind of thing is gimmick. But the thing is, first off, anything you can do to sort of start the beast, right? So if you can remove resources from the other side, then that can shrink the government.

Uh but IT also sort of frames taxes IT reminds people like why taxes are bad thing uh to be Frank, bribes them into the movement which I mean the other side does that all day along so i'm not below bribery you know tempting people into the movement um by reminding them that their taxes can be quite a bit lower and you know connecting to exactly what the money is spent for right say so here's the deal when I can able to invite iraq or. Do whatever this we're doing a ukraine e bot, you don't have to pay taxes, right? So that's that's very, very appealing people.

And a lot of libertarians, they complain that you know the other side can buy votes and we can buy votes. And I like when you talk, the government takes half of everything we own. We can buy votes, not just say what I got take any more.

So I think that those are no taxes are um they hit the bottom line for people? Uh they are resonating at the moment because the economy is slowing, such streets slowing, britain is slowing in the us. So I think that people are very open to that.

And IT stays away from those sort of physical hc questions like you should we have, you know police department okay, that's fascinating down the road. Yeah, but first, let's say shrink the government back in one thousand nine hundred ten levels that be about ten times smaller than today. Let's get them out of the money business. There's a couple of really big reforms that would have a lot of leverage. So let first let's shrink IT to that and then we can have the philosophical discussions .

about the the bottom of justices. And exactly always .

the road can do that. There was a story of a british guy you might heard of this um they were doing road construction on one of big highways, and IT was taking years in years, and so people had to drive like twenty minutes out of the way. So this guy lay down his own road and I was like one hundred and fifty meters or something that he charged two baLance or something to go over the road from memory.

And he, I mean, people just loved IT, so they could just skip this whole when they close this whole round about, of course, they closed them down. That's right. Yeah, he in for a couple months. And then I can remember if they seized there, if they simply close IT down, IT would sort to be more on brand to just close IT down .

and put up barriers. And pretty sure we only have one told road in the country. yeah. So we have this m one, which is the main in and before birth. Mm, we connect to think all the m six, which goes up around to birmingham.

You want to go to manchester, but it's kind of it's almost like goes up like a right tangle. And birmingham, the traffic was just a nightmare. They build some called the m six toll, which cuts like corner off and like seven, eight pound. Everybody uses IT. Everybody uses IT to cut that corner off because that seven, eight pound is worth saving an iron traffic.

You would think they would get a clue out of that and maybe build more of these things because, of course, the tls pay for the road. And so then regular people eventually get the road for free. Yeah, you know, you do something like twenty years of toys that pace for the road, and then everybody get a free road.

Y this is, how far a does that? We have gorgeous roads. They all start out.

They're all borus toll roads. Are they private?

Their state roads only? Yes.

still the this this .

is only part way there. Yes, this is the gradualism.

So what are those big failed institutions that that you can get rid of, like you will be a typical liberty. And in the fed, is that a realistic idea that you could for?

Yeah yeah you can absolutely get rid of IT quickly. Um Andrew Jackson there in the nineteen twenty years, he he literally ban the thing and you know the main function uh of the fed outside of printing money is bAiling out banks. So this is not a function that actually has to exist.

You would because of that need to give you a little bit of um lead time, right? So this kind of goes back to the neck during the french revolution. If you announced ed tomorrow that the fed is not going to be bAiling out in more banks, then yes, you will have a massive financial crisis that likes we've never seen.

We saw this in two thousand eight, right? In the two thousand eight crisis, you had really what made IT a crisis is that lemon brothers collapse, and wall street expected that they're going to get bail out. And w stood up and said, no, this is the free market.

You know, if you make the money, keep IT. If you lose the money, you also lose IT. And he stood up for principle, and god bless him.

IT was dum, but he did IT for the right reasons. And of course, all of wall street just woke up. I was like, holy crap, you serious. We're not going to get build out.

And at that point, all the counterparty collapse around that, right? So you can end the fed tomorrow. I mean, you can, but all of your banks were collapsed that we would go to zero theyd, be acquired probably by canadians and warm buffet.

So IT is possible, but you would have a massive financial collapse. But you know if you give IT five, ten years notice, the banks went have to scrambled to get there. Um you know baLance sheet up to the point where they wouldn't need bailouts.

But yes, you can definitely do IT with the fed. Other agencies are a lot less trouble. So if you ve got rid of the department of education, my personal favorite, just capable of the department of defense, maybe keep coastal den, border patrol.

The U. S. Is functionally in island. We don't actually need, in my opinion, ocean going vessels.

So you get rid of that one. That's rounds about eight hundred and fifty billion year, most of health and human services. That's more complicated because a lot of people have paid into those.

So uh, in the U. S, as an imagine britain, a huge chunk of the government is effectively welfare, and a lot of that is medical payments. And that I think is hard to get rid of immediately. I mean, like you wouldn't want to because along those people would genuinely be optimized if you try to do that, that would block up in your face because Normal people are not gonna be down for that. So I think for those, you've generally got to ease them out.

Um you know if you take so security, for example, the solution is relatively easy, but that would cost a lot of money in the transition, which is that you essentially give the money back to the people to know we have four one case in the U S. Where um you have a retirement account and you invest right also is what I rs so so security should work like that. Now you've got a bunch people in the middle where they would still have to receive government money because they don't have those baLances built up over time.

But so security is relatively easy to fix. Medical in the us. Is a bigger problem.

It's U. S. Is actually funny. So we have every single socialized medical system, a in the U.

S. At the same time. So the british system is the va system, which tens of millions of americans belang to.

That is identical to the british, uh, bebber system. Uh, the german system exists now in obama care, right? Medicare, medicare is full payments that to the canadian system, medicare.

And remember which one medicare is, maybe french. Every single version of socialized medicine coexists in the west. I think this is surprising to americans.

The vast majority americans are covered by one of those socialized medicine systems. Is really nobody who is uncovered in the us, or there is literally nobody who's s uncovered. If you are homeless and you walk into a hospital in the us, you will get care.

The care will be absolutely top flight, Better than just about any country on earth. The U. S. Has very, very good medical care, expensive, but IT is very good. So if you are homeless, if you are a penis, if you are a pennyless foreigners, you can walk into a hospital, you will get free treatment, you will get build nothing for IT that is medicated. So I think europeans do not understand this.

I, yes, I have to hospital.

Ce, I did get .

a bill. Yes.

that's exactly .

the system, right? So will be you, but you just not play, yeah.

Or are you a big name if you want? So I was in new york years ago and I injured my leg and I went to a hospital, and then I got the bill, and I was filling IT out at work. My co worker looked over my shoulder. This is why you doing fatter as i'm paying my hospital of business, paying his hospital bill, he thought I was the most hilarious thing. You'd never seen anybody pay a hospital bill and so I didn't.

So you don't have to be there functionally.

They don't do anything to IT. It's kind of stunning.

Um everybody know .

this and I I didn't know that when I was living in new york. So is is only for .

emergencies in areas .

I think so nowadays I do pay my bills or specifically I get insurance so that I can head the bills off. So I wouldn't necessarily to do IT as a life strategy, but if you're homeless, right or or if you're travelling in the us, I mean absolutely ignore your bills because now.

you know I know of people who've had medical bills have nearly .

bankrupted them yeah right .

but they could just ignore you can igor.

you can call them a work out of payment plan. Um so you know years ago they our kids were born premature ally, and I think the bill was like half a million. And so we called in for a payment plan and they wanted something like fifty .

dollars a month will pay that.

So what you're effectively doing is permanently postponing a half million debt until you die in exchange for fifty box a month.

So is that why they just seem that the U. S. Systems to complex.

it's very complex and it's extremely expensive in every single one of those layers is lobbied to high heaven. And so I mean, you it's just the more you dig in the way to make you sick, you've got something in the U. S.

Called con laws. If you want to start a new hospital, then you have to get approval from all of the existing hospitals in your area. The words your competitors who you're going to be taking business from going to say course, going to say no, right? And conn is certificate of need. I think it's called the idea is that the other hospitals will decide whether this area needs more hospitals.

Body free market.

It's not particularly free market. yeah. So I mean, the us. System is it's almost it's like the mutton bastard of socialized medicine is every single one of them plus billions of dollars of corporate lobbying mixed.

So you've got every single flaw imaginable in a medical system. You've got political corruption. You've got private sector corruption, I mean just up and down the line. Uh so getting back to the rational question, you know how do we um you which government agencies can we remove? Medical would be a lot of .

work doing. Who has got medical right around? What if you looked into this because you in the U.

K. We have the N H S. Not great. And get IT, get IT worse.

But it's a source of national pride. Yeah, everyone loves the N. H. S, even though waiting this years, a lot of people.

But I know moving to private because the private service isn't that expensive in the U. K. It's infinitely Better.

At the same time, I don't like the U. S system. Yes, the U. S. System just seems to be, you know, the insurance is expensive and you have you deductable and then and and like things like my my friend told me one thing, he said he phone the wrong ambuLance when, uh, his daughter had an accident and so we had to pay for the ambuLance thousands of dollars yeah, because he has meant to phone a different company.

He is also set up in a complex way for people to make mistakes as well. So I don't know who's got IT right. I hadn't looked at the sweet, but they can do everything, right? So I should really look at, do you know if anyone's going to write what is the theory on this?

You should be just fully private. yeah. I mean, there are some countries that do reasonably job. Singapore, for example.

The general principle is that you'll have a two tier medical system where you've got basic services that are free, that are paid by government, that are no more less on the british model. A and so you know, these will be things like shared words if you go in the hospital. So you'll be in award with other people in current between you.

And then if you'd like to pay extra, then you can get a private room and that extra payment. It's kind of the same models in airplane. Yeah right? So the economy class, they're actually kind of losing money on economy class are very, very close to IT, who's really paying for the airplane is first class.

Those guys are paying eight, ten times more. That's where the profit is coming from. The reason why the airplane is taking off is because of first class and then economy is getting subsidized.

So that that's probably you know I mean, of course, we go back to the nineteen sixth century where you know costs were much, much lower. You didn't have insurance in between, you know in the U S, for example, when you had that purely uh, free mark system, there's not to recommend IT. So for example, doctors did house visits. They also do this in britain.

Remember when there was a private system and you know the idea that you would go to the hospital like people didn't want to go to hospitals because he got sick at the hospitals, which is true today, is if you go to a hospital is a very good chance if you going to pick up some infection in the hospital and that could be quite be bad IT could be more some bug. Yeah exactly ah and so you know yes, there's lot to recommend a the one thousand nine century system but even if we don't call that far some kind of system that has a two tier, singapore does IT well. Uh the german and swiss systems are also similar.

Obama care was modeled on that. So know the idea was that, uh, people have to buy insurance and then how much you pay for that depends on how rich you are. Those seem like relatively at least bad ways to do IT.

I know i'm advocating socialized medicine, but but you know the trick for the U. S. And ID for american listeners, I mean you there are so many layers of lobbying in there that I mean you almost have to throw the entire system out um and just start from scratch. And if you were to do that, were to do a system with similar equity to you know in terms of taking care of a the poor um as we do today, then you would probably go with either the singapore portion or the with flash german system.

Lobbying seems to be the most corrupt part of government.

Yeah well, lobbying always exists. And you know people go for lobbying and they say, well, if we just get the lobby is out and look in the SOHO union, everything was lobbied, right? Mean lobbing is is part of the machine.

And in fact, in companies you get lobbing as well, right? So favor work in large CoOperation. You have wings and you have one group that wants to do this kind of project or um you have lots of politics inside of businesses.

Now in a business because you have shareholders, you have controls and you to a certain degree, that lobbing is pressed because you have some business core, like you've gotten catch the rocket with the chopsticks and you allow that much internal, but in government, you, the shareholders, are so remote, right, going back to the penalty act, that sort of intentionally remote rise of the shareholders, the voter, and then communicate the politician. The politician, of course, has their own goals in life. They might ignore the vote, but even if they do care about the voters will, then they're up against the bureaucracy.

And then once you at the bureaucracy, you've got all these layers of bureaucracy in government, where the minister of xyz might say he wants something to happen. And by the time you actually get to the end of IT as the telephone game, right thinking ve just been hopelessly corrupted, either from stupidity or from corruption along the way, in the sense that you, every single person in an organization has their own goals in life. They want, they want to get promote IT IT, or they want to not work very much, or whatever is right.

They want to curry favorite with somebody who. So when you don't have those formal controls, which you never, ever have those in a government in less is a dictatorship or an absolute monarchy in that case, yes, right? If you're in dubai, for example, the emir of dubai can decide that, you know, he wants something to change in the medical system and he command IT and IT happens.

And if that doesn't happen, then people get punished. Ah so in that kind of a system, you know yes, the government can work sort of like a business with shareholders and controls and such. But if we look at the western systems with all of the quote, quote tax on baLances in place, those end up also h slowing that process and making IT much harder for to be responsive.

And so but at the end of the day, and that brings suspect to those approval ratings, right, where voters want x by the time that goes through all of the roof gold berg machine to every step of that, what they actually get, they look at in there like this. This is not what I voted over, right? I wanted to him sandwich, and I got a rotten potato.

Like, how on earth did you think that this was but sort of built into system? There's a study, by the way, this is from some professors at, I want to say, prince, in a couple years ago. And they looked at various policy proposals and they tracked out public support for IT and then likelihood that IT would become law, kay, then they correlated those.

And what they found was that there is essentially zero correlation. So what if people like something, people don't like something, the chances that becomes law are unchanged. So again, that goes back to the democracy problem, that amid all of the discussion of fixing our democracy and problems with our democracy and downal trump in all this, we do have a core problem in our democracies, in the west and the system based on IT, that they are not responsive to the people.

And I think we do have to have a conversation. How do we do that? Now one way to do IT is just think the government, that's my favorite solution.

If you get the government out of IT, then IT doesn't have to be responsive. You know, like we don't vote on what i'm gna have for dinner tonight, right? If we did, I would get the wrong thing every night. So instead, we take that out of the political system and we just say, look, you choose and you pay for IT.

Because if I used my food insurance to pay for IT, then you can be sure that again, that would be perverse many ways right um if government is covering one hundred million meal that I may as well you go in cavy or even though I don't really want IT or maybe i'm kind of sick of IT, but I would order IT just because I could so you know the idea would be as much as possible bring these decisions back to the free market because the free market does avoid all of those group golden g agency problems without trying to go in there and fix IT one by one by one because we know that, you know, many people have tried to fix these systems. U. S.

Medical system is the next example. Every ten years we've had a major reform. When they go in and say, okay, finally, we're going to fix that once for all.

And they have like fifteen hundred pages of reforms. We're finally going to get this one in every single time. IT gets worse.

And I think that that's true across all of governments. If we're trying to make governments more responsive to people, in many ways, it's a lost cause. I ain't to work. I think that the only solution is make the government so small. You know, if you get to a future where like bedford, for example, the vast majority the budgets is going to fixing pot holes and you paying police officers to do like actual, real police stuff, like investigate crimes.

not really crazy.

We're crazy, crazy liberal world.

Take a forms to the men.

Yeah, exact right. So like you've ve got back to basics. Then at that point, I think you do. You fix that telephone game where you know the people want clean streets.

They look out the window, the streets not clean, they call up the council or whatever, and you know, they go out of the meeting, right? So if government is small enough that I think that people actually do get involved and they get involved in, you know, sort of the important issues where, as you know today, I mean, looking at bed for but I think really looking across the west in general, government has gotten so big to the point where it's sort of ating for regular people. Uh, like if you were upset about pot holes in new york city and he decided to go to, like, new york city council meetings.

So I mean, just good luck, right? There are so many other activists there who are involved in that process because government are new york gives ten million dollars to L G B Q out richer, whatever is you ve just this feeding frenzy of activist. So the you know grandmother who cares about the pot holes is, I mean, they are just going to get swamped by the rest.

So I think that if. If you shrink down government um you end up fixing all those problems automatically, which may not be intuitive to people. They might think that like a smaller government is actually less responsible, but I think that's not the case.

Um the smaller government gets, the more responsive gets because it's not distracted by all these other things. And I like a video on that the other day, but I was looking at road quality in the us. And the us blessed IT has fifty fifty different states.

And so there's lot of areas where you can of look at phenomenon and trace out how they play out need to state. And in this case, you can look at road quality by state, and then you can look at tax tag by state. And the funny thing is that the more taxes that the state collects, the worse the roads get.

So this is independent of climate. okay? So like idaho, for example, has the best roads in the country.

Idaho has snow that has mountains, has got landslides, got all kinds of crep. But across the board, the less money the state is taking the best of the roads are. And that's weird, right? That's that's conterno ive.

But I think that's exactly was happening. Is that once your tax take goes beyond a certain point, the pot hole guys, now they've got to fight for their budget against the activists and the activists the harvard trained, they are fanatics. They're helping each other.

They are scratching each other's back. The pot hole guy, he just shows he comes to work, is I got, hey, any anymore? As for you know, he's not an Operator, right? He can't defend his budget against these other people.

And so I think that that's what happens. Government gets to a point where IT basically grows into IT like this activist cancer. And I think that that know, if you look at a country like the U.

K. For example, I think that pretty much describes what's happening now where the parts of the U. K.

That are doing things are doing crazy stuff that the people don't want, right? The U. K.

Is not proactively fixing pot holes. It's not going on doing sort of good governance stuff. You know, putting police on, you know, actually solving murderer.

For example, the sort of growing parts of the U. K. Government are not those good governance parts.

And logically, uh, you know, you might say, well, I mean, U. K. Government is taking a lot more taxes than he used to. If you look at precoe, IT. Budgets first is now probably .

exploded thirty percent like I say, the I think the taxes of presentation GDP I think is up from thirty three. I know this number. I've got to I see something up like thirty three percent to forty one percent right in twenty years.

Yeah I mean a huge jump. The last time the percenters of this high was, I think it's like in the seventies where we have a huge amount inflation. And then the last time it's peaked I think was like after was after war.

War too is I mean, after I love my numbers wrong till I is that we were approaching the highest ever and then look into go high and then you've got k starmer talk about one to drive growth and i'm like how you drive and growth when you're struggling. The economy yeah put in pocket money. I mean, they spend the in twenty two billion on carbon capture.

Yeah.

where is where is that twenty two billion come from? How many jobs that where ago? yeah. I mean, this guy this morning, I was quite funny that you say about the taxes on the roads.

I said to he was from england I said, how is poland in the moment said we've got a homeless problem as funny, I travel a lot around the us, the states, which don't seem to tax the least or tax people, at least the ones that don't have the homeless problem yeah as I know when I am like text or well yeah but when you are not I said nature like yeah blue cities in red states have a problem and there's a correlation that exists. I mean, I don't think I ve never seen a homeless person in dallas. I could be wrong yeah, but i'm pretty sure I happen. And I don't know why. I don't know what the answer is.

yeah. I mean, a lot of I just has to do with the benefits. You've got different populations of homeless in the us.

So they might great basin where right?

So you've got one population that is mental ill, and that's the legacy of in the thousand nine hundred and seventy of the us. Empty author, insane asylum. That was a bad idea, but they did to save government money.

And so there is a large percent of the us. Pop homeless population, and they really should be in alizad. They're insane.

It's not a humAnitarian to leave them the way they are. They're just living in their own feces. And if they were properly medicated, then they can be more, less Normal.

A strike me is very inhumane, but anyway that's one part of the population. But then there's another big chunk of the population which I can't member the data. But anyway it's it's half or more ah which is essentially homeless by choice.

They you know take drugs, they have a lifestyle. They i'm sure if they sort of zoom out and ask if this is how they want to live their life, they say no. But that sort of like, you know, if you ask most overweighed people, do you want to lose way? They say, yes.

yes, I do right.

And as I would like to lose weight too, but actually given that I haven't lost weight, I don't wanted that much.

Like only more yeah, right?

So, you know, pay attention what I do, what I say. So that sense that sort of homeless by choice population, i'm sure in the abstract they don't want to be homeless but in fact they're making choices. I can be homeless and if you subsidized those choices, like if you give them free money know or if you give them free drugs um you know you let them I mean camping on a beach in california for zero rent is a pretty relaxing lifetime like there are stages of my life where I would have .

enjoying that just kind free. Yeah exactly.

Hi is IT. It's kind of appealing. And of course, it's appealing on the front end. But once you have done up for a couple months and sort of ruin your life at that point, IT does get old.

But the problem is that is sort of this in a mouse trap, right? IT like lures them in. And blue cities in the us. Specialized in that. And so you know, in in florida, for example, because of the weather, you would expect, so I live in a landa a now, and you would expect that we'd have a lot of homeless. But in fact, we have almost done.

And every time I look out on the street and I see the homeless that are not there, I know where there are there, out here in los Angeles, there in california, because they've been paid to come here. So ideally would have a system that does not paid people to become homeless. Maybe you would really out that money to the people who are are insane on the street who you know hit regular people on the head with bricks every so often so those people should be instituted zed for their own good, for the rest of our good um but that you really how was breaking down the us. And I think that europe is um copying our system. Unfortunate.

absolutely is on tending now. So um i've seen the growth in my own little town of bEthany, i've seen the growth in homelessness and and also drage crack kids yelling at people on the main shops. IT feels a little less safe.

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You seeing tending camps. Now I didn't I don't remember seeing them was a kid. Maybe they did exist. I just I don't remember IT.

And obviously, we know I think there are a multiple factors as you we have a tighter economy, we have a changing and economy. We have less support. We don't I don't we don't have uh, the no prosecution for stealing nine hundred dollars of those which instead of fives different things. But had we had in that direction, you can see IT and you can feel that and there's nothing this. There's nothing you can see this is is they're gona reverse course.

right? And so again.

I mean, but then I come back and like all these things, great, i'm with you. Let's make government small. But like how do we actually do IT if IT IT needs somebody to go in and actually do IT? Yeah and we don't.

I mean, I watched the liberian party conference here, this miss gray speech, but everyone celebrating that libertarians can't get on and don't agree on anything we don't read. We have a liberta part in the new kind and like six people around IT. And so if there are any people thinking of this.

And but they have no power, right? How do we ever get together? That's a difficult problem.

So i'm very much against the libertarian party. I'm a but this is antithetical .

to be .

in the liberty an well. So I think the libertarian party is a great instrument for taking the most passionate ten percent of five percent, maybe, of the population in freezing them in carbonate, completely excluding them from the process, he may well freezing and ized throw them in the ocean. I would not be surprised if, like some communist billionaire funded the libertarian part, I think it's an absolute atrocities 店 because in the U。

S. System, anyway, the way that political parties evolve, and they do evolve all the time, they changed costs. And I mean, the republican party just in the past twenty years has changed massively. It's gone firm sort of the country club to uh working class and that's a huge change for the party.

But the way that IT happens in the us is that um the parties are very, very easy to infiltrate and to corrupt from the inside and that happened to the democrat parties in past ten years. You've had you, the democrat party in the U. S, especially the party of the working class.

So unions, working men, much like labor in britain. And I think they both got corrupted in the same way, which is at the faculty lounge display those blue color working class people and essentially took the party over. And you know, that kind of depressing, I think if you're an old democrat or a labor partisan in the U.

K. But it's also, I think, important that that is how you fix parties. Uh, I don't think reform or you keep a was the right approach because we saw what happened in the polls.

And I mean, i'm not being from moral perspective. I love personally, nigel for oh, but I think tactically in the british system, as in the us system, the way that you change IT is to infiltrate the parties on the inside. Because the parties are generally not well defended.

They chase votes. There's at least a substantial part of each party that really doesn't care what they believe. They just want to win elections.

Maybe IT is for crop purposes. We should bet on the alternative of nut job social reformers. But the parties are open to change.

And so I would much prefer in the us, for example, that we shut down the libertarian party. I don't care which party they join. I don't care which party you take over.

In fact, to democrat party is Better to take over as much, much juicier. It's god. It's far more powerful. I corrupt .

you a good ideas .

that's exactly IT right. And so yeah uh, so with that caveat, I think that the parties, I mean, they are both changing. Uh, I think the democrat party is changed for the worst.

I think the republican party is change for the Better. That's why I am republican the moment I grew up as a democrat, a group in philadephia, and nobody I knew was a republicans. Republicans were allegations, rustling, snake talking.

Like um but yeah you know the parties have evolved um for me that kind of gives me hope because I think that you there are if we take the republican party for example, the energy I think is definitely in the right direction. Uh the conversation in the republican party is how to get uh, less government spending, how to had engaged in fewer foreign wars, which is a big change for the republican party. Traditionally, the republicans are the war mongers in the us.

So I think the conversations in the right place now, having said, we take the republican party again, most of the elected officials of the rehabbing party are still old and there are still leftovers from the old. exactly. So they're very corrupt. They will dance for military industrial money for health care, money for pharmacy cal money for everything in between. Ah so the party itself is constantly disappointing its voters, which is, to be fair, like pretty much every party on earth is constantly disappointing his voters. But the energy, at least in the republican party, I think the direction that is headed is the right one, which gives me some hope that you we're not just sort of wasting our time that, you know, we can see the evolution happening. The top, which is influenced public opinion, but unfortunate these things .

take a long time. So fact, these parties were good ideas. Send the liberal party members of, yeah.

really more one poles.

basically.

Yeah, well, there was a moment, you know, we look back at two thousand and eight, right? Two thousand and eight made so many people angry at the us. In the us. That you had you two political movements that came out of that on the right, you had the tea p party on the lefty at occupy wall street.

And there was a glorious moment where I was like, they're gonna touch so close, they want the same things, right? And we had a lot of common ground between the two. And my hope is that we're going to get together and we were going to fix all the crap we'd read on.

And then we go back to warring afterwards, right? right? And you know, of course, what happened is what happens every time, which is that, you know, the corporate media jumped in and they go with race.

They've been planned race. I've been shocked how long they've been milking the race. Thing theyve been doing that when I was a kid, like in the nineties, I was like, everybody got sick of this L.

C. thread. But no, they but that's what they did, right? And so they said, the tea party, now they're all racists, they're all confederate. And so they managed to split those two movements.

And so, you know, rather than at being the ninety nine percent against the one percent who were fleecing the rest of us, IT then collapsed into the traditional fifty, fifty or forty nine and a half fighting against each other. And, you know, they did IT with B, L, yeah. Uh, you know, again, I was hopeful, right?

Because lot of people on the right have for a long time so that, you know, there are police abuses, and, you know, police shouldn't have these additional rights. They shouted, have any more rights than any other citizen. And so know we need to rain in these abuses.

And I was, again, I was like, they're onna touch. You know, we agree on so much. And again.

with the race thing, could you at least .

do IT differently next time, come up with some other division. But you know, theyve been very, very effective at IT. I think that fundamentally, that is fuelled that sort of division, industrial complex is fuelled by so much money.

Um you know the reason they do IT is so that the oligarch can stay out of the limelight, they can keep placing the people they do in the banking. I mean they do IT in every single industry and existence and you know so much money is at stake there that there, of course, it's not going to give that up willingly. So that point, I think the solution is down to people like us. Are more less mean exactly.

Yeah and in some ways of bigger, I mean, i've got an audience you got an audience, other other products. So a huge audience that to wolf the mainstream audiences uh the I mean, I don't know what the BBC approval rate in the U K, but unsure drop in yes, fast and hard. I think people have become a lot more suspicious of love likes a murdoch as well.

Now then enter the corporate media um in their new cycles. Uh would be a first step because I think again, this about to even on mask as well what he's done with twitter, which, by the way, a lot of that I don't like. But what he's on my twitter and community notes is he's stopping people like every time I see eliza's warn tweet, I have a look at the community, know where is correctly.

And I think that he feels like we turn in a ship around, right? Yeah, and it's going going to take time. But a few but I think I think a lot, a lot of good can cover from a huge matter distrust.

Yes, because that's like njal forge and reform party. You think? I think, yes, there was a wrong strategy.

And came my disgusting the day with something was critical of population. I said, populism is a reaction to the market. The free market gives you populum population, gives you popular parties.

The reform took fourteen percent of the vote from new standing start. yeah. And I think if if we have this huge amount distrust the free markets gonna require us to have Better politicians of Better media and and Better media sources. I think IT seems IT moves so slowly.

The slow part is the frustrating aspect of IT. Yes, yes, I I have hope with the internet. T, I just read article yesterday. They were talking about the main newspaper in fort worth you, which is the big city. It's like Dylan sst twin city.

So yeah.

it's like fifth larger city in texas is a major city.

They still take the cows through the city.

They do. They do indeed. yeah. And so the main newspaper there is fAiling and they're not gonna to reduce the print run to three days a week and describe this website is really pay the same. Anyway, in the article, they mentioned that they have twenty seven thousand readers. So that is a small sub stack.

Yeah, yeah, he is. And right.

So we are blowing them out of the water. They are absolutely exploding. The only reason why BBC or CNN has any viewers because they're habitable. Viewers have been watching for fifteen years.

well subdivided net as well, but they never even get a little bit strangled with you. You don't go on flicks watching news, right? You don't think you just done. I mean, historic. I mean, my dad, my day to me about this is that we first got yes got recalled a sky TV IT was for sports and then they put this kind of twenty for our new cycle in and then they required the news to sell ads because they bore hooked on the news um but they only survive. They only exist because the the networks, the cable networks need to have a news channel um but that the distrust in that is is I mean, i'd love to know rogan numbers compared to like c ng g yeah absolutely but .

just move in a slow man.

It's trust.

Turning on slow IT moves, I think dance the opposite. Mim is just that if we go back through history, these periods where governments just become completely democratic, government become divorced from the people, IT does take a long time and can take decades even. My hope is that I think with the internet, IT can go out faster.

Having said, the absolute essential ingredient is free speech. Yes, if you don't have free speech, not only does know every fighting chance we have vanishes, we go straight off the Cliff. We look at what happened during covered.

The only reason, I think, that the cover disturbia ended at all. We would still be there if IT warned for free speech, right? Free speech people, could they?

They could talk about the outrages, know the fact that you can go to church. Not going to church is something that not happens since the piece of west fAiling in sixteen forty eight. That was unavoidable.

The idea that you would ban people from going to church, i'm not personally religious, but that is shocking. That they could even do that is scary. And I think that that concentrate a lot of minds. So as horrible as experience was, i'm thankful for the cover, herne, because of that, because IT showed people in living color that these you sort of horrible female camp destroy. As that we talk about, we are like an entry and half away from that.

I think he is even more important for somebody like the U. K. Because we don't have a thus amendment protection that's and and we don't have a culture of free speech like you do here in the U.

S. And I know there's been some encroachments on IT here. You've got certain a democrat politicians talking about the the trouble of misinformation, and we need to deal with that, which is concerning.

But in the U. K, we don't have this culture of and you can sell in hate speed rules. In the U.

K. Quite simply, we have got people going to jail now for tweets and and and post on facebook. And look, you can have debates over them.

The one reason of the the politician's wife, he was burned down the hotels with all the immigrants in, and then people to try and burn down hotels. Like I think there's some valid debate there, but general speech, we don't have those protections in the U. K.

But IT was because of the free speech in the u. Like I thought covered up so much mine, I felt all this should give me the jab, didn't get boost to thank god. But I felt for all, I fell for the lockdowns and IT was only because of what i'm here in out the U.

S. L. People I put to the U. S. S. Like at first I thought everyone was crazy. And as I know a lot of ride, and then I think that that infected the U. K.

We know a lot of people who are campaigning a lot loud of for free speech in the U. K. We, we don't have free speech in the U. K.

What is ironic? Because you don't have laws protecting free speech, the weather we do, but the culture of free speech came from you. I mean, like the the in many ways U.

K. Had the strongest culture free speech in the world. High park I guess was ah yes.

that was like the onic symbol of IT speaking and culture talking about controversial subjects. We do have that and we do have the ability to stand outside parliament. I can stand out outside with a sign that says the star is a dick and I cannot be maybe I be maybe that's that break something.

But what would IT be like absent ity laws or something? But germany speaking, I can campaign is not like in red square where i'll be rested and being up. So we are Better than some places.

But there are certain things you have to be very careful about saying. The governments censorship isn't the worst one is actually our libel laws. I think you're actually excEllent.

Worse, because our libel laws can be exploded by the rich. I've been through a libel laws in five years. Cost of fact, fortune.

They're also particularly dangerous because that stops journalists. And if you are, that's one probably the independent journal half. If you work for the telegraph of the time, you going to be illegal department checking every word. So are an independent journalist, you risk be an arrested. You you know buy a rich person for .

saying something you functionally cannot talk about private citizens. He's very, very hard. You have to um aim at public figures so yeah yeah you can say anything you want about know and how. But I mean, we saw this with the demining lawsuits.

For example, once you started talking about regular people in the problem is that sometimes the regularly people are big parts of the story in a bad way and so you have to be able to talk about them but yes, unfortunately in the U. S. Libel law used to be very, very good.

Uh IT was extremely hard to to um to prove of a case against a media uh organization and I think not being a lawyer, not being expert, but um since trump a lot of rules were changed. Uh I think basically the order they looked at what happened in backs said and in trump and the left wing states, deep state b decided that there was a good chance that they were losing. And they panic and they change a lot of rules.

And one of the rules they change was that tradition in the U. S. anyway. Media could basically do whatever they wanted and they dramatically change the libel laws um or change the interpretations such that at this point organizations including me like I I do not talk about private um people for that for that reason because yeah i've definitely .

been a little little bit more careful since then. I don't want another lawd too because is so expensive to defend, which is unfortunate .

because our role is to tell the truth, whatever we see IT. Yeah and that's an important social role, maybe full of IT. But the point is that if you have enough monkeys typing on a, you know, on a typewriter, you're eventually getting the truth. And if we're silences, I think maybe not me, you know, not important. But if alternative media is being silence, then I think that that that .

is a big threat. And yeah, how the liberian project in argentina O I know you are probably tracking IT more close than I i've seen bits at both sides. I've seen um data related to when you go to rent controls, right? And that brought the Prices down, which are obvious ly good.

I've also seen a poverty rates have increased. He got over to the soup kitchen and you know, his approvals have drop slightly. Yeah, I see this expecting rippon of the band is painful.

Yeah, but we knew would be painful. And it's is going to take time to fixed. But you check in IT closely. IT feels like els like a big, like the most important bittern n project in the right.

Yeah, have been trying IT fairly closely. And I think that you've sun that up nicely. Tearing off the band is going to cause pain. The beginning, for example, you I would love to fire a million federal workers in the us. That would, however, create a million unemployed people yeah and that would have raise the poverty rate and they would have trouble feeding their families in this night.

And so short term, yes, you're always things are always gna get worse before they get Better if you're afraid of that then you know I have broken an ARM like yes, you have to go to the doctor and it's onna hurt when he resets IT but this is the only possibility to get Better. The alternative is I usually have A B and and so i'm encouraged by what's happening there. I think that the pain is lot less.

And then I feared, you know, I was afraid of that sort of french revolution solution, right? Where you come and need to try to do too much at once because he's done a look quick, he's done a ton really fast, right? So he he baLanced the budget and nine weeks seen in a matter of weeks um which was shocking right at a massive budget.

IT was on the scale of most western countries terms of GDP. Uh the rent control thing was a big deal. Um some of that he had to do, you know for example, he had to revalue the pay.

So because the previous government had the sort of pretender rate and there's a lot of yeah, there's a lot of hidden cost to that and you have to fix that in order to get the financial system rational. And so Prices can can actually be accurate so people can allocate capital. But the problem is that, that required him to immediately develop to pay.

So if you do that, then the import Prices are going to go up for things like oil and food, my art and so. So that's going to make inflation go up. So there were some things that IT sound so much ripped off the bandit, as there was a hidden problem that the previous administration had caused.

And you know, in order to start fixing things, you, you, you just had to recognize reality. And so that made some other worse. And of course, you ve got this entire industry of not just left swing argentina media, but left wing american media included, who are trying to look for every single. They're going to start every chart in the perfect time that IT tries to make IT look worse or to fail. They absolutely wanted to fail.

It's the same with ki theyve done the same actually. They want IT to fail.

They'll send a tema reporters to try to find one person who you know is sympathetic, who they can hold up as a poster child of, know at what human rights cost. And I mean, really, it's it's just the entire industry that is trying to to taint them. And I don't know why they are picking on them.

You like I can understand why bloomberg doesn't like trump because many of that business interests and you know I mean, generally the democrat party is Better for big companies because they have this pipeline of subsidies, what not? So I can at least understand the motivation why they attacked trump h and why they attack republicans. In the case of, like booker, I like, why do they hate him so much? I mean.

what is IT so? Is that the media? Or is that is that the institution of government and the fact that he's often an alternative economic model, which might make the I M F in the world bank irvan because the U. S. Needs them to export its inflation, right? I saw that when I are in the law, they literally explore .

inflation to all the country and and I told some parallel, all of these organizations um know what example is uganda. So uganda last year they had a um a law that criminalized homeless sexuality. And uganda's an society is very, very conservative right? Like most of africa, like most of the world, in fact, of the west is extremely conservative.

And so anyway, they had a law that that criminalized various degrees of a of homosexual behavior. And you know, the whole world came down, right? I mean, you know the bite administration threatened sanctions. I was just across the line um and I think that you know a lot of these international organza fundamentally their tools for exporting western policy goals and I think that you know traditionally what that meant was um you know finding contracts for oil companies and things like that. You know you couldn't make the more corruption.

just international .

corruption right? And you know I guess on some level you can make an argument that you know if the U. S.

Government is trying to um force mexico you to allow american companies into uh into their country, then you could argue that this is good for amErica something. But at this point, I think a lot a lot of those organizations, I mean, I would oppose that. But anyway, you can make that argument.

But I think that was happen now is a lot of these organizations, they are simply exporting american social policy. You so like if you believe in democracy, then you would say like uganda's can choose whatever their gay policy is in their country. That's that's up to them their um they're not actually colony anymore. Um so I think that know when he comes back to like why do they oppose but Kelly, I think that in their mind they code like who's on our team and who's on the other team and they have for whatever reason they sort of translate these guys into like he's elsewhere trump and then bam at that point he's on the bad boy list and then you know is off to the races. And if we sort of dig down like why is that we can talk about exporting american priorities or you know helping american companies, whatever the reason is what IT does boil down to is that the enormous um sort of propaganda power of the american media anyways directed to people according to whether they're coated as on our side or on the other side.

Putting at the moment is quoted on the other side, right, that there's like you can more less go through world leaders and you know generally speaking, I think it's in proportion to how obedient they are two american foreign policy yeah um so if they do everything that the that a left wing administration says, a left wing american administration and they are the good guys and the entire american propaganda a machine is on their side although having said you know you have regimes like venezuela or cuba where they actually seem you know even if cuba is defined of the democrat administration um U S media tends to be very sympathetic ort of cover up the rough bits and uh I know things are hard in cuba, but by gump they're trying their best so I mean you could just argue you that their peer communist, maybe they could got brain washed in university. And so now there are bring that into their meeting organizations so maybe it's not entirely U S. Um imperialism. Maybe it's just literally communism.

Did you see that recent video of buki with his soldiers that the big field have you? I haven't from star wars you so i'll show you ah .

theyve got the caves and he's .

got this like new alpha where just like I think that's gucci. I know where come from, but it's is we he he looks very authoritarian an with that and I was like, yes, is this something to this look you're going .

for and he's been leaning in the way .

I mean star was you know the not darfuri you know kind like generals and looks like, ah yeah but I mean, at the risk of passes, some people I like him.

I love the guy yeah absolutely yeah I think I mean, he's got roughly ninety percent approval rating among south dorians. You we kicked off this conversation talking about the problems with democracy and like the .

one who's got IT.

yeah you know, if you believe in democracy, as you know, all of the right thinking people in both of our countries claim, but you should be on the side, right?

It's all the fifteen, twenty and twenty five percent approval rating. People dislike the nine percent of approval. And guy.

well, and and this is one of the subtext. I think when people talk about protecting democracy, they say things like we have to make sure trumps not on the ballot so we can protect democracy and scolia. Okay, you're using a .

different defintion.

Then I would use what exactly you mean by democracy and I think that largely what they mean is that there's this sort of set of world view that I would summarize as um as socialist and in their mind, the good people are going to be running that socialism right? So the government going to take over society is going to make all the right choices.

In their mind, society is like a classroom where you've got a bunch of psychopathic children who are trying to kill each other, and then you've got this teacher who's kind and loving and wise. okay? They think that the government is the teacher, the people are, you know them.

And so the teacher is going to control them, move them in the good people. So when they say democracy, what they mean is that teacher fixing the people, right? And what I think of democracy, you know, I would say, well, you know, the children are not psycho pass like the children are democracy yeah like IT or not.

You know that they're the ones that you listen to. The teacher obeys the children or more accurate, they're not children, right? Um so I think that that's what's going through their mind.

And so when they look at a buckle, for example, if he looked at from our perspective, you'd say, well, you know he's got ninety percent approval. He is democracy, the south and people absolutely love. And you know, you've been there, right, talking to regular south of dorns, they feel safe.

And you know, these are working class people. I think these are regular out like taxi drivers and pup's a girl. And I mean, regular people absolutely love this guy, that is democracy. And so I think that that sort of reveals the disconnect when the sort of institutional left talks about democracy, that they can stand the guy, right? And they can stand the guy, I think, because he opposes what that teacher is trying to, you know, mold the people into, like he's not on board with that project .

and he's been successful.

So they summarized as popular m horrible that you would go and talk directly these people and ask them directly what they want and then try to do that directly, right? This horrifies them because that's exactly they want that inter mediate, wise teacher. And you know, what I would argue to them is I understand why you might like that. The thing is, every time in history, every time that your wise, glorious benevent teacher wins IT goes evil overnight. Kay, cuban revolution, chinese revolution, russian revolution, every single time, every one of those revolutions, first of all, I went hard.

Core right wing, by the way.

every time the communist twin daylight, the left wing activists are beginning the wall and shoot them. A check with vera. Famously, he loved shooting gay journalists specifically because they were gay. Journalists shot him in the head.

They're still left tatus of them on the way.

Yeah, right. Every single in the chinese, outlaw d homosexual. The soviet, outlaw homosexual. You will go to the gooloo for this.

right? Every single time they win, they go hard core, right? And the reason is because once you win, once your communist revolution wins, what are you gonna with people who burn police stations? Are they usefully you anymore? Their problem and their liability.

So you just going rid of them. There are many skills. Gender studies is majors who know how to burn police stations.

There are problem. Make coffee. Yeah.

then not even worth IT, because that they will, sooner later burn police station. So you get to those, who do you appeal to? You appeal to the people who keep things running, truck drivers, farmers, construction workers, right?

The populists. So even if they win, right, they're fighting their revolution to get the teacher in charge of the crazy kids. If they, even if they win, the populists are going to win through the back door.

So I tried to shake them. I like you idiots. I am trying to save you. Yeah, stop IT. Stand down. Let the people speak so they're not so angry, so they can get policy that actually reflects what they want. And enjoy your stolen, you're two thousand thousand government university jobs in all this. Just enjoy stealing what you have and quit pushing IT because if you win, you going to be up against the wall.

Like cut this out. Yeah that goes Better education, the economic frameworks and a literacy. I've just think we've done A A really bad job of trying to explain to be exactly how this stuff works, right? Um but maybe we'll get a revolution people, maybe we will. Well, I quick, if is anything we discuss that you I yeah .

you want to discuss.

I have not asked you. Ah no, I mean.

i'm looking forward to talking after the election IT looks like it's a knife edges at this point day election.

the daily election today.

So we have what fifteen .

days or something I mean, as an outsider going to be so home with the big bag pop go on. It's funny. So I didn't vote in the U.

K. Election because I refused to vote for decline. I think they're both only offer a decline. I'm i'm not in the place where one hundred percent think I certain ly think a vote for carmilla as a vote for decline.

I'm not sure if trump is a vote for, I think is probably a vote for less decline, but still decline. I look back over the his administration like he increased the national debt by a lot, seven point nine trillions. And his biggest one wasn't the stimulation.

He was the the year previously, the similar were about three point five trillion. So like I don't see him. I think there are some things that I understand why he appeals to liberty ans i'm not there.

Yeah I I I think he's a Better option. The camera might worry on the trump side of things is that I think a lot people play down that chennery the same thing. I mean.

I do. I absolutely play IT down.

I think if I tell you why, I think, I think no heard the phone call to the georgia I come from about their job total is know the pressure you tried to put on my pants just a lot of behaving felt very anti american.

So it's a question of premises, right? So if if you think that he lost the election, then a lot of the activity after that looks shady yeah because IT looks like you're try to steal election. If on the other hand, you believe that he actually won the election that was stolen from him, then everything that follows looks absolutely logical.

In fact, maybe he should have push harder. And so that's the formal question is did he lose you like or not? And I think it's very hard.

So in his mind at the time, I think he absolutely believed that he had one the election that was stolen from him. And so you know, in terms of like motivation for what followed, I think that, I mean, that was all perfectly logical in his mind. Now, a separate question, did he actually lose the election? And there I am not sure.

You know, if you look at things like, you know, google try to do everything they could to try and slant search. This takes the, I mean, that was really the height of the sensor ship on social media. So he tried to say something nice about trump. IT was getting block.

oh yeah, don't get me wrong. There's a lot of like get fucking things that happen. I think that like this do wash boxing at all.

I don't okay. I love boxing, right? Um uh there's a couple of ways I want to fight. You knock something down, uh and they don't get up in ten seconds.

If one you know them down three times and around that done, you knock them out to the point with the rest things this is dangerous are done. Um but germany speaking, if you go full to all around, that comes down to the judges. And i've SAT there and i've watch fights and I think someone's one and it's been given the other person or draw.

The problem is you can't do shit about IT right now. I the way I look at IT is that I am an outsider. No holes in the race.

Every us. election. I've watched both sides accuse other sides of cheating. And you see, things were like this, like accusations of those stuffing.

And then that's like these videos, where these where these boxes come from. Then you find out the video is fake. Finding the truth is so hard to know, right?

I think if you think you lost and you think, uh, IT was stolen, there is A A A legal process to go through to try and chAllenge that. I I think what happened a january with the sixth, uh, and i've seen how people tried to talk him and they look on the people and he didn't. I think he wanted that to happen.

I think the pressure might pass. So I think it's a bit of an american hero and that's been understated. And the pressure you put on the georgia leg legislator, I can remember the person. I just don't think that was a very american thing to do.

I think the american thing to do would be to complain, take the courts and then, uh, if you still have one, then you have to, you have to, you, you, you have to come again in four years. Otherwise you're basically Spark in civil war. You're not accept in the result has been .

declared what everything trumped was exactly where you're describing. So all of IT was in the rules of the game. So for example, in the us, we have electors and when you vote for president, you're actually voting for an electro uh, you strictly speaking, voting for the president. So you're electing like a delegate and then that delegate both president and every single U S. election. Um you have pressure including in two thousand sixteen, the democrats put a lot of pressure on electors where they said, look, I know did people you represent voted for trump but trumps you know a crazy person and so you have to it's a fairly elector right? And that's got a long tradition through american history like so every single aspect of what trump tried to do after he felt he was robed, the election was completely in IT was in the rules of the game.

I need to do more as such because I don't understand IT enough for one of my understanding walls is that what he was doing wasn't because part the rules. But this is U. S.

democracy. I don't understand the all details are definitely researched more if i'm wrong. People furry, sly, tipping on on youtube now like p shut up. I'd need to go and actually do the research.

But yeah, I mean, in my case, when jan six happened, I had wanted to go down. I was up a new hampshire and I had family stuff why I didn't go down and I felt guilty.

I felt like have been in .

jail and jail. Yeah solo, so I mean, you know that that in my mind is so I I think represented of somebody who would have gone to j six even though I was a coward and didn't go. But you know, what was going through my mind was that we had just gone through an entire summer where they were burning down cities for no reason.

And finally you I was come like, where are the republicans? You like, where are we standing up and saying you enough, we are here to. And I was excited about Jessica. So I finally we make our voice heard.

I felt like the election of been stolen and the goal of jan sex was to communicate our dissatisfaction and the stiffen the spine of faithful ful selectors, so that if they felt like the election was actually stolen, then they would vote the other direction. So that was the, I certainly didn't think I was overthrowing the go. Nobody did.

Nobody on gensec was armed. There's like three hundred million guns in america. Trump supporters who are passionate enough to go and you to protest.

They most definitely have weapons. Nobody was armed at jan six. IT was not an insurrection.

IT was a political .

protest. Well, I mean, I didn't use.

I did. I I know what you didn't understand, know a lot yeah, but we talk A A lot about these things and I I always want to understand the other when I don't have a hall and the right, I want to stand in your position. I want to stand my friend. My brother is was with yesterday his position because he's very fearful of of a trump government and so you know why .

is he fear flying?

Curious um I think he's more fearful of jd events um and the potential the truth doesn't survive an entire and administration and J D becomes uh president just based on eight infuses given previously where he seems to think IT was like a vanity fair interview and something to do with j events uh would be willing to do on constitutional things to ensure like amErica uh uh is footing is right in the right direction but again I need I haven't read the vanity fair or her the vanity fair interview.

But you know, everybody I know who is hundred and phone for camera is massively fearfull of trump. And everyone who I know is voting for trump is massively fearful of commons. Like how can these people be? So yeah.

which is kind of an unhealthy equal in a country.

know.

Yeah I to be fair, that's also been sort of the standard for most of american history. yeah. And if you go back to the nineteen century, for example, I mean, elections were very, very passionate. They pulled no punches, you based on anger and fear and everything in between.

So I mean, it's tRicky know if we look at if we try to look for periods where american elections have been know very polite um theyve essentially been one party rule like in the f dr um in the period following F D R. So basically the thirties, forties and fifties elections were relatively friendly. But that was also because we had like a new party.

And so no, I don't want that. And so I think is possible that you have a choice between liberty, which is going to be a bunch people yelling at each other and afraid of each other. Ah now the fear, I think that you can.

Again, going back to smaller government, right? So a government that can do less is also less scary. Um if you look at local elections, for example, don't tend to be so heated because least in the U S, because cities don't control very much.

People just aren't that excited, right? Um you know if you have the same in the U K, yeah if the county executive is in the other party, people are aren't afraid of being round that up and sent to the fema camps. Cy, why? Because the government is so small that does so little.

And so there are periods in american history where, like the average american did not know who was president, did not care, because the federal government was so remote who that cared didn't do anything. And I am an honest reading. The constitution and the ten amendment um actually Mandates that smaller government, like almost everything that's done of the federal level, is on constitutional.

I really okay, the tenth amman says, uh, any powers not delegated are reserved for these states or the people. And so what that means is the way that the U. S.

Constitution works is that it's it's a list of powers, so called delegated powers, and says, okay, these are the twelve things you can do, something like that everything else you're not allowed to do and it's like post offices and nal defense. Um you can coin gold, silver, so you can only make golden silver in the money, which is an interesting question. yeah.

But the federal reserve is solution.

So almost the entirety of the federal government is on constitutional, and they can make turn pikes highways. Sadly, the U. S. Constitution lows them to make sure.

I mean, I always say the rose is the last one. We need to fight that.

And i'm willing to accept that we're going to get to rid everything else and then we can sit down and we can. And if that's what the question, what's right if if the government minted gold coins, had highways and named post offices, we would not be afraid of each other?

No, so and we .

could get there. That is so much to argue .

over with those things either.

Yeah, yeah. I mean, I mean, people would still argue he, of course, you any community you're in if you play a board game and people are going to passionate debate, so people would still argue.

but it's hard to be massively the ideological about this exactly .

and like nobody's afraid of, you know, being thrown in prison for something so I am hopefully we can get back to that if we had a spring court with the spine and we can actually get back there. I mean, there are a couple of sort of glorious um easter eggs hiding .

the .

constitution, which is that strictly speaking, cording the constitution, the federal government is about twenty times bigger than IT should be a federal reserve notes. I mean the the the entire federal reserve infrastructure is on constitutional.

There are couple things in there that are pretty glorious um but you there's over ten window within the legal system and you know the screen court sort of move step by step because they're paying attention to public opinions. So we're not a silly again there overnight, but IT is exciting for the future, particularly you and this I think it's sort of a key point. You know I think that the absolute super power of the us, one of them from the us.

But beyond that, one of the reasons i'm so excited about the us, I think that our one and only superpower is the constitution. Yes, americans think that we're like super anti government. This net during cover, sadly, that did not turn out to be the case. Um it's not even I think our civil culture, I think that the one superpower we have is the constitution and because it's still sitting there, the constitution and exile as it's called. I do I hope for the future.

I M will listen fifteen days. I'll be watching popcorn now. I I think all the people are alive with a vote and jump or all the libertine who are willing to vote.

I don't know single librarian who will vote who's voting for camera? yeah. And so maybe maybe he's the right ticket.

We will see Peter, can see Peter. Thank you to everyone listening. See soon.