#548: Bitcoin's Exchange Theory of Value with Parker Lewis
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It's a good to be exchange is the only reason why source value parter Lewis.

head of business development example, right, a prolific educator and writer in the bitcoin space this series gradually, then suddenly has helped only fill many bit corners over the years.

And the more exchange that's available, the more valuable that clean become a method gc connection for people. So they just sit there, are thinking I can sit in my burning home, not go out and create value, not demand bitcoin as payment, and think that this houses are going to burn the dollar inflation is this vicious cycle and there is no easy solution to there's no silver bullet of saying i'm just going to opt out. When do you cut over? You're assuming, well, there's gonna these rails when I need them sak well, how do they just magically exist at the time when everything's collapse and when you need them?

You've had a dynamic where money become freer than free.

Let me talk about a fed just gone nut. All all the central banks going nuts. So it's all acting like safe haven.

I believe that in a world where central bankers are tripping over themselves to devalue the currency, bitcoin wins. In the world of fiat currencies, bitcoin is the victim.

I mean, that's part of the bulcke for bitcoin. If not any attention, you probably should be, probably should be, probably be.

should be. Is you wonder, okay.

believe that I think .

we're winning.

Looks like the energy energy feels like when the conversation .

at the yesterday, the court, that was one that makes me feel like these ten gentle parallel movements that we've been talking about for a while, we're finally gonna verge. There is summer. We talked about feet, food and obviously we had sam from short tail creek farms in the other week, similar conversation.

But there is different groups of people fill self be lined um running towards what I would deal deem to be sort of virtuous in goals where there is cleaning food, education around clean food, getting preserve tips out of our food. Um they're becoming more recept of debt in in and something you are very passion about. It's making sure these people are accepting big way as payment so that they can continue to do what they do with that. That's running a farmer, educating people about topic. Farmer, big agriculture, big food is poisoning the the lifeblood of our energy, which is the food that we eat.

Yeah I mean, I think that we had Matthew shack in a to I think is the awesome bec one club at the being in the month and yeah, he's almost someone that came from IT, not directly from the big coins. I bit more the the food side talked about how you read the fight standard right here um and then that chapter just stuck out to him and he almost didn't believe I was true the chapter, the center on fir food so then he started doing research and now he's become this I was a great advocate but the champion who is connected IT to the the money system who's figured that out that's like, okay, it's not just that the foods broken. It's that the incentives are tied back actually to the money system.

And if you don't fix the money, then you're not onna fix the derivative higher level problem that exists not exclusively but in large part because of the economic and sentence and that yeah whether I was having sam through the comments from short to a couple weeks ago, um the interview did yesterday of like reinforcing these people not just that they should accept between payments, but the first key being that the problem that they are experiencing and whatever vertical they're working in a passion about, in this case because I kind of put in two different buckets, ones the health care system, ones the food in those two things are related. But if they're trying to solve a problem, what whether it's related to um sam having a more direct consumer model on the foot or someone who's looking at the healthcare space and looking at you know trying to make amErica healthy again, if they're not identifying that the money is a big part of the problem that they're never actually gonna be successful in solving. So the first step is connecting that bitcoin isn't just a thing in and the r thing is bitcoin and their thing is healthcare. So therefore is not bitcoin that money touches everything and um money says that the root of all these problems, just a certain degree and figuring that out first is a necessary step to actually making progress.

Yeah, I mean, i'm pretty confident that cording had an unlock yesterday during our conversation, particularly pointing to the food and describing similarly, we're going into more depth than what you just do with Matthew. And it's funny like somebody is like nutritionist focused on food in health and affects a big farmer, big food, on new overall well being of american citizens, particularly. SHE had no idea the connection because he was funny.

If SHE the reason I brought IT up, SHE brought up nineteen, nineteen seventies, like something happened in the one thousand nine hundred seventies, and you look at diabetes raids, obese rates, m heart disease rates from one thousand nine and seventy, I was have red feet food diet. And SHE said, known. So had the opportunity be like diving into what math you saif originally made about Matthew expanded on, which is they had to present to the american public that food Prices were low. So they had to subsidize on this cheap crap and do the hedonic adjustments in the CPI to make IT seem like your food costs we're lower than they actually, where if you wanted to buy nutritionally dense good food and he had no concept of that monetary effective on what SHE has dedicated her life to, which is food and nutrition.

Yeah, after the pocket when we were all talking like once that idea connects like will imagine your food, your money just starts getting worse for less and lessen less. How do you not have to substitute for worse, worse things? And that the impact of that is wide ranging and pernicious. And then once IT unlocks, IT becomes obvious. But if that hasn't unlocked and you're looking at a problem like she's looking at and trying to figure out solutions, but if you have not connected IT to the money, just imagine how in effective you're going to be in actually solving um if a large part the problem is because of the debasement of money and value not holding in the future in your whole life. Functionally being debased uh without you know not only a way out of IT but not basically being able to see half the equation like you can only work at a higher order rather than a lower level to solve a problem and you're functionally just you just keep swim up stream um and never can actually make IT down yeah.

Got absorb the earth in my throw trend work to right now. But great product, by the way, great product. Oh, bring that up after finished recording of something. Bring up there.

No, IT is crazy getting to the rule problem, which is the money because that's a lot of what we spent our conversation on yesterday was like all the solutions to the health crisis. The obesity epidemic in the U. S. Is like thrill pill at IT.

like an ideally one that .

someone has take the rest of life. Yes, and solving that roots are getting good nutrition back into the american society and getting good food back and again, go back. They're fighting the higher water.

Words like need to pressure kilos to take the food dies out and make sure that we're not poisoning our children. And this is a knocked on. Anybody like you're in your lane and you're focused on what your core competency is like.

The inability to recognize that, that is a symptom of the need to flood the market with cheap or goods because you're debasing the money has a connected. But once that does connect, that's something i'm hopeful for if trump gets an office and arif k, the maham movement gets some influence within the administration. I like to think that we have enough people within the orbit around some of the decision makers that may come into power to really help them make this connection.

Yeah, agree. And I think that IT does feel like we're starting to stem the tide. You know, just culturally, IT feels like and a of people are are jordy.

People are still the matrix. But IT feels like enough people are out of IT and are connecting these dots that IT create the opportunity for real meaningful acceleration of that trend. And more and more people connecting that they're all related and that the money is at the crux of all of that. Because on one side, if you're looking at IT and saying a lot of this problem is due to constant basement of money, which leads the constant basement of everything around you, that if you also haven't connected that that's part the problem.

Then if you're not solving that part of the problem, you, you, you then can kind of realize, well, i'm never getting out of this like someone we are having a conversation in court and after the park cast yesterday, like, hey, if if, if you can actually save good money, then like how even if you wanted to, like, stop replacing in a good quality beef with cereal for breakfast, lunch and dinner. If you don't have the savings to do that, you you can't do that so that you actually what and IT doesn't just make IT magically easy to do. But unless you take that step to start being able to actually be able to afford things and then like, well, how do you afford things if everything constant is more and more expensive because they keep printing money in debasing IT, then you OK. Well, if we actually want to solve this is not just kind of educating about you, oh, this is the problem, but actually giving somebody a viable way to to fix that. And if they're not saving in a form money that preserves a value over time, functioning not in a position to do that, it's just you're just still in a hopeless position knowing that there's a problem without a tangible solution to actually Better .

people's lives. Yeah and that's I mean, sort of flung this only everything is important to rehash the multiple conversations we've had over last couple weeks with people that we think should get bit going as highlights order of Operations too. Ultimately, what we're going to talk about, what is your peace? Bitcoins exchange serious, the value and the importance of accepting bitcoin payment, the would have a Operations of people first have to recognize this problem, identify bitcoin as a solution. Only after that point can they begin to do the research and really a orient their business and their personal finances in a way that allows to protect himself against this debasement that we're describing their right or their .

cause of its in the case of courtney working on the sweet, broader effort to um really change how people think about health and make a matter same building shirt tail the farm local pastors of the distribution grocery store to get in a product directly from the farm to the consumer to say, you know you know first understand the problems, I understand the solution and then being with Operationalize ze the solution to to advances either a business or a cause and initiative and um you know ultimately what got me not just stepped talk about you know why the peace just focusing on between payments period is yeah and we had a conversation about this, I think on the podcast probably year and half ago after the slew of bank failures.

So like thinking about is pausing from the idea of just the consequences of monetary debasement on all aspects of life. But just when your bank is at risk of failure and what was happening, you know, with a series of those saying, what would we build if you reliable access to our banks? And because that's what really set me down the journey of Bakery payments in the first place.

But then beyond that, and when we think about big coins, part of a solution, which, to your question, like, yes, we all recognize the betwen store value. But until it's like we're never actually going to get to the other side of the problem if the system isn't. Working independent of all other systems, right in a key part of that is being able to um interact directly from an economic perspective and exchanging value.

Um and I think if there's an area of bitcoin, the most underdeveloped is the payment side. But IT is key to whether you is a farmer building a local grocery store and saying, okay, i'm recognizing the fir currency a problem. The fir currency is a problem, a bitcoins part of the solution.

And being able to take bitcoin directly from my customers is a very logically part of the solution. And that same type of thought process extends out to virtually everyone that's looking how they should be thinking about backward. And looking at IT as an aggregate .

solution to this problem is a fair to say that you think there's been over index on viewing bitcoin solely as a story value.

Yeah, I think I think so, but not because that's a problem in itself, but just like helping people understand. And roy from breeze road and a great article yesterday, kind of taking A A different approach to explaining similar concepts, but recognizing that bitcoins only able to store value because it's easily exchanged.

Um and yeah if I am helping somebody understand backup in from zero to wana, all sometimes focus on a very simple, simple concept like it's got a fix, supply and money can be printed and money that can be printed is going to store value Better than money that can be easily printed. That's a really easy concept for somebody to get, especially if they're first starting down the past, understanding big one. But if you go a laer deeper, it's that mony's function to store value is necessarily tied to between a series of exchanges.

IT actually doesn't have a purpose. If there's not an exchange on the front end where you begin to store value and then an exchange on the back end where you realized that value, it's really important that whatever you're storing your value and maintains its purchasing power between those series of exchanges. But if IT weren't exchanged on the other side, then I will not start value.

The so thinking about bitcoin fix supply in a vacuum like i'm just going to sit here and save IT forever. And that's how i'm deriving value of IT is just misunderstanding the function of money. And part of what I explain the peace is that at a fundamental lever, at a very logical level, bitcoin does not increase in value merely by you being willing to buy and save IT because every time you buy, someone is changing about you to you, you're transfering some value even if its dollars as as an indirect intermediary.

And that the consequence of that is that anybody using bitcoin, they're scribing value to IT for what they're able to exchange in the future even if they're not intending to do IT for the future or or long into the future. And the more easily backup in is exchangeable, the more value IT will um IT will garner. But IT actually garners the value and increases in value because is what I explain, the peace that trade is not zero some that the the actually this would be a turtles all the way down problem if there wasn't mutual benefit to two parties to a trade um because that's actually how values created through the division of labor and through specialization. And so I just I wrote the peace and for the reason why I focus on that in payments is because it's a critical aspect of the coin ability to store value. And if you're just thinking IT of IT in a vacuum like it's just a sort value, not at me, if you're not .

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You're able to hold own keys again, it's the bank of the future unchained dot com use the code t ftc, when you check out for any other products will get fifty dollars off. Check out their concerns on boarding if you're looking to do with the right way, unchained that com user code. Ftc, yeah type further into these exchanges napping zero um because you decried IT well in the peace. I think it's really important for people particularly like lame anymore n um fully verse ocean economics and just economics more generally who want to understand this from first principles, like why is not zero? So like what particularly exchanging money to build capital to provide value to the rest of the world, that is not positive.

So think about a couple ideas now can jump not not necessary end of the peace book kind of um IT was the end of an idea in one of the early sections where I think about bitcoin in its fix supply perfectly fixed terminal state. No more bitcoin, no less bitcoin. Hundred percent of all bitcoin is being saved by somebody at all times.

And then think about what's functionally happening in that economic system. Money is moving between individual to individual, business to business, individuals to business. And the actual exchange of money is being used to build more, more things, more.

More goods exist, more cars exist, more homes exist, more humans exists. Humans procreate and build things. And then think about this fixed money supply distributed across more goods and services rather than less.

That is actually the function by which the monetary unit increases in value constant noral amount of currency and more and more goods and the purchasing power, which Normal currency unit buys more for that reason. But it's actually the money that's coordinating the trade that's actually allowing for more goods to exist. That's the inherent function of money into one of the examples that I use in in the piece that is thinking about Steve jobs.

Steve jobs use money to pay a bunch of employees and to pay manufacturer suppliers to build an iphone. And the iphone is capital. That's the accumulation of capital. Now everybody walking on the planet, virtually everyone can have the benefit of an iphone.

Um so each individual trade, if I think if I was to think about jobs, paying an individual money to do to do a service in this in a very complex process to produce iphone, the person who got the money benefit and Steve jobs usually benefit and then everybody else who bought the product benefit as well. But the value creation happens through the series of individual trades that ultimately help people to build goods and services that didn't previously exist. Um and through that process is how the underlying value of the unit increases, if that makes .

sense yeah makes total sense to me at least but I hope anyway, listening is understanding the process by which value is created in broad the thing iphone, perfect example. Not at least apple benefit massively trillion dollar company, but individuals who own iphones have added more value to the the world is by having the accessibility and I like we build apps.

If you if you wanted to, you can um access the internet to be more productive on the go. And so overall productivity certainly increased due to this one simple product. And that product was the product of economic change, exchanging value via money to according to all that activity to produce that product.

yeah. And so like kind of like using a different example, which would be it's like if you think about every exchange like this, there's two two core concepts. That one, the utility of money is to court nature in an economic activity. And that is actually what allows for division of labor, specialization and gains from both of those division of labor and specialization. And that this fundamental idea that that trade is not zero summer. What that what that doesn't mean is that certain trades can be like, some trades can be zero om, and some trades can you not intend to be zero some, but an entrepreneur can speculate and trying to build a new product or service and is not being valued by the market in that case, is not there some, but the the basis of trade. And the reason why trade persists is because there's mutual benefit.

And so whether it's an individual working at a company, the companies getting a benefit because that individuals performing a role and the then the individual gets paid in money and then they ve benefit from future option, saying, I can go to the market and take this money and facilities more trades or a producer of goods is buying some input to a capital good and their suppliers benefiting from the opponent of money, and they're getting the good return to them, build a height, you know, A A good that further down the production to save, build a car, right? They they bought a chessy from A A company that supplies chases to G， M. 和 G， M.

Ultimately ds the car and everyone along those series of exchanges, benefits. And you know, this similar thing would be in the context of the oil. Will some know there's guy working on oil regret now, and he's getting paid money, and now he has the future finality that money and the company that is working for has the future precision power of oil is coming on the ground.

Ah but fundamental to all of those is that each party to the trade benefits mutually for different reasons. And when you add that up, that's actually what creates value in the economic system. In the reason why I tied in this in the big point is to help people understand that if they're just sitting there on their low lawal, staring at their background, like that's not actually how value gets created in the world.

That's actually not how value gets created in bitcoin. That's not why the Price of bitcoin goes up on their screen. The value of bitcoin goes up on the screen, obviously in part because people are learning about bitcoin, understanding White or as purchasing power.

But at a more fundamental level is because people are going to be able to use that medium to facilities. A series of exchanges is ultimately to deliver value to other people. And the more of that, that happening, the more valuable bitcoin will become because that is the purpose of money. And you will also logically trend towards direct commerce because that's the most efficient .

form of train. yes. And I think it's important to highlight the complex process which we just walk through. You becomes harder and harder as your money gets debates. This coordination um in this these transactions of mutual benefit um in a currency that is increasingly in um ever faster be coming debase at some point if it's not mutual because they can be use extreme example and bob venza a like people get paid and they're had to go spend IT right away and the person that works exchanging those bowley wars or zimbabwe now with where the people that ended up with them like actually get the ship in the stick because unless they could turn around and spending to me as well, like that was um arguably like a bad trade off for them.

right? And so you know, addressing something on the bitcoins, I someone might say, well, if I give you my bitcoin and then IT goes up massively and value, then did I get a worse deal from that trade? And the the answer is, if you are spending any form of money, like if you're spending dollars, it's therefore at the opportunity cost of not only backhoe.

So IT doesn't actually change the calculus. And yes, anybody who is endeavors say to invest, if you are spending for investment purposes, you should ideally be thinking about IT in bitcoin terms and to say, hey, well, i'm to exchange this bitcoin to go try to build this product. You should have the intention of only doing that if you expect you can get more big coin over time.

What happens when money storing this value in this end state is that money is actually storing value rather than losing this value. And you bring up a really important point, which is and and this is something that I do not think that people appreciate because I I think I can save in that coin and spend my dollars. But as the dollar gets increasingly valuable relative to goods and services and loses more of its value more quickly, IT actually makes the process of trade and exchange harder.

And a great example of that, which is for people should go listen to, uh, the pocket that you sam offer recorded from your tail. He talked about having to look at his business basically after the fact realized what his cost has actually gone up and then basically like a year to later, then increased Prices. He's constantly having to reevaluate his business more because the money supply is changing, not just because his market is changing, independent that fact and that itself creates friction to trade.

And that as this continues to go on, that what's really happening is the like what inflation is IT is money printing. But what hyper inflation is as an extension of that is not just because they printed too much money and the money became worthless. It's that the the degradation of the money and the debasement of the money actually made trade harder coordinate.

As that happened, certain businesses fail and goods actually started to become scarce relative to the amount of money is just is not a constant amount of goods and services. And more and more money existing is that the the more and more money existing is actually what causes the goods to become scarce. Because a business model breaks.

A business keeps raising their Prices until they Price their customers out, and then their customers start stop showing up and they can continue to services the other ones because their businesses now become unprofitable. And in that sense, as via currency losses, its value increasingly IT becomes less and less mutual. If i'm saving in bitcoin, I spend a small portion of IT in the rest of my bitcoin gets worth a lot more.

I was still mutually beneficent trade especially I was a consumer buying something like stake that I needed to survive to the next day. Um but this broader point of you can't just sit night. I think about that you know the dog sitting in the the house on fire saying everything is fine. That's what that's what I think is actually most reliable to this idea that i'm going to store value in big coin and never spend IT and think that that's just gonna ue to go on because there's a real consequence to you taking a bad form of money directly and in losing purchasing power until you can ultimately get into the good foregone money. And the way to solve that for all parties is just to transact and the good for money and to be exposed as less than less to to the bad form money.

Yeah, it's either that this is find me or congratulations to applaud yourself because the mindset I am going to sit on my bitcoin and spend dollars, not recognizing that spending those dollars with people that provide you goods and services that make your quality of life possible does not put them in a good position to continue to provide that good service into the future.

You're functionally just explain what you're doing is you're externalizing the cost of the fight system onto the business owner that you supposedly can. Yes, right. And so in one of the prior pieces I had written, um I explain that if you don't actually value the service that to be around, maybe it's but if we value sam shortage and local pastors and we know that he's going to be Better off if he has bitcoin and collectively, all of us, we can cut out the field system and that that's going to be important to the the future viability of our ability. Exchange value with our local grocer is also our local answer.

Then IT becomes very rational and that if you're just sitting there because there's this there's this logical dilma for the scenario, where is i'm just going to save in bitcoin in spending dollars. It's either you're holding a lot more dollars and maybe we should be or or when does that change? When does inflation get so bad? And not just bad in degree, but the speed at which Prices change because that's actually what happens in in hyper inflation.

When do you cut over like it's almost you're assuming, well, there's gonna these rails when I need them just like, well, how do they just magically exist at the time when everything's collapsing when you need them? The reality is that happens because this auction, this audience, a mutual incentive to purse pursue IT even with say, the friction of the tax system um and for people that are high agency to realize well, I can't just go from today to this future state where everything's working if something is not making IT work along the way progressively um and that it's not actually consistent with reality. Say like i'm just going to sit in this burning home where yeah inflation getting worse and worse, Price changes are getting more and more frequent, more economic and baLance is exist rather than less or censorship in the financial exist exists rather than less.

And the fezzan interest rates, they're about to have to print money. This house on fire is only going to be further engulfing flames. So if somebody is is not high agency, then and what will ultimately happen for maybe most people is certain people are high agency and those people will benefit because of the people that were um complacent. The people are complacent will benefit because other people who are higher agencies say, like, okay, i'm gonna wait till I can escape the burning house and I had and help create a solution.

This route was also brought. You are a good friends, expire if you're big corner and run a business or an independent contractor, you should be accepting bitcoin payment. If not you, then who? If we believe that fia is systemically fragile and is a risk, the rails that, that currency runs on our risk as well, you need to begin accepting backup in as soon as possible.

Invest in the future of your business, creative redit rail by accepting back coin as payment using zapora and reduce risk for your business. I've done this for my business here. T ftc.

We use zapora. IT allows you to easily create invoices, payment links or connect e commerce stores, tecture wallet or custodio counts and be set up in. We can also connect our bank accounts or stripe accounts or square accounts to accept fiat as well.

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When you make your purchase, you'll get fifteen percent off and tell you get on a freak. You're a love this stuff that's so I think this is something we talk lot about, just not the context of payments, but like timing. Obviously, merchant adoption was a big mean back. And like the twenty thirteen, twenty fourteen or like Roger ver betwen I said, part of the resort for high, he fought off because he didn't think bitcoin as new exchange protocol level is being prioritize enough and think like solutions like late but he argued at the time twenty, thirty, twenty fourteen in the market wasn't ready for merchant adoption between was a fraction of the market. Captain IT is now um I I guess that's what i'm trying to get out. Like how do we know when the timing is right? Like is inflation increasing at a pace where you think IT is wholly necessary at this point time to begin adapting the rails just for a redundancy seek, whether that's because you want to have the rails available to accept the Better money um to protect yourself from the basement or had the Better rails protect yourself from a banking crisis which gives you creates inaccessibility to your .

money both no yet and no one can no one can time anything perfect or no one has perfect knowledge to say is is now the right time. There's a few things that I look at to at least think conceptual about IT, which is multiple two hundred billion dollars banks failed. Practically one of them failed practically overnight.

The other one failed over a matter of a couple weeks. And those were the third, fourth largest bank failures ever in the united states. So the system is still just as fragile as IT wasn't two thousand eight as IT a stables that IT wasn't twenty twenty and again demonstrated in twenty twenty three.

Another thing is that, yeah, that coin is no at equal. Liberum now storing over a trillion dollars a purchasing power. And I believe you guys at T, F, T, C put out I, you know, I think people can think about these different ways. But that because this somewhere between the fifth and tenth largest currency system in the world.

base money.

no base money, but basement is relevant. If bitcoins is the very inception of another adoption wave, if adoption increases by from here at an equal liberum of one to one and a half million, if adoption increases by five to ten times, then that's five troon. That not only represents purchasing power that that merchants become interested and say, okay, I can sell to that, that market I I want to sell to that value.

It's also that values an output of enough people valuing bitcoin, that there's enough potential density to begin to drive a trading economy, right? And again, that that is difficult to to forecast evoke when is enough density enough? But as there's greater density, there's greater opportunities to trade exchanges. By definition, as there's more people holding bitcoin, there's more buyers and sellers.

there's more consumers and business. yes.

And so just thinking about the the say the size of wear bitcoin is today a truly verses a billion in between a billion and five billion and a twenty sixteen you know when that might have been um in saying that it's a hundred to a thousand times larger, right? But then also again, if you recognize the if if you recognize that the fir currency is a rest of you from a baLance ship perspective, from this store value for aspect, then you should become logical. Maybe the the danger to you does not seem as clear and present, but if that currency is arrest in the rails of the currency are logically also risk and that is one of those if not if not us and who you're not me and who if if if now than when right um and.

Because there's so much negative asymmetry at a system level end at a business level that it's logical and instinctual to protect yourself against the risk room to say like I can't wait until I absolutely have to have this new rail to then begin thinking about building IT and that the more high agency people there are that think that way the less pain actually be um and so then and then IT does you know it's always reinjured back to this fundamental to help people understand, which is. Storing value to what end I IT only exists if its ability in its ability to be exchanged at some future day, even if you never intend to spend IT, the value of bitcoin is dependent on your future option is too spent. And the more of that that exists, the more valuable the currency unit is to you.

If you had backed coin and you could only sell IT at one place, if you could only exchange with one party, how valuable would that can be if you could only exchange IT at five places, if you could only exchange IT for ten places, if you could only exchange IT for fiat currency and you were dependent on those centralized sources, what's the value cap of vaccine if you're able to spend IT at every merchant around your local economy? Just the share number of people that are willing to bid for you bitcoin, the more optionality you have IT should be logical of the underlying medium is actually more valuable to me, the more places not less than I can spend IT. And that only happens.

And again, and I think about this very logically, like somebody is not going to accept backwards payment or I think they should be accept in backline pain or even using backend me exchange if they don't first understand why the coin stories value at the same time, it's a ability to be exchanged is the only reason why there is value. And the more exchange that's available, the more valuable background becomes. And theological connection for people so they do just they're thinking I can sit in my burning home, not go out and create value, not demand bitcoin is payment, and think that this houses are going to burn.

and. Through you. I mean, is what you guys seeing is up that what is the typical is the typical architect of your customer.

Somebody was recognized, this is nowhere older, big. Obviously we is. Operate the voice, everything we do here. t.

Ftc, I mean, I made the logical decision, run my business on a big queen standard seven years ago. But in terms like new zapora customers, what is what are some of the different architect? Es.

so when we focus the product and we're actually building specifically and in part how we market IT, but also how we build IT specifically to people who are to understand background. Um so really there's two architect. Es, but they would have one thing in common. The two architects es are bitcoin is quarter their business, they working bitcoin mining, they run a bitcoin park cast, they host a bitcoin event or conference or first something. Core bitcoin is central to us that that's that's one architect.

The other architect is just a small the medium size business has generally privately owned that has one or two key decision makers that understands backline in and understands why bitcoin is important and understands why they need to make an investment, an infrastructure to be able to diversify and be able to make for their customers that want to pay them. And because we make that available easily reducing a rest from their business. I think that is common across both of those architects.

Es people understand backwell we find I find as if i'm talking to somebody that's having to be explained the benefit of bitcoin at the same time that they're trying understand should I accept this as money as payment directly is is also only wait time for both parties as I go read a book, go read the big queen stand, go read gradual than suddenly yeah broken money um but more and more people that are just so proprietor in up um like sam is taking backup in on this um online store we're working on you know trying to convince them do that in person obviously need the tools to be able to do that. Um local dentist just set up a local auth dentist um bike shops. So very much is that small business where once the idea of bitcoin on locks for somebody business owner can take the forward action to implement, that obviously is a lot more difficult to larger businesses.

The more stakeholders there are to gain a consensus to then and then it's also often times more expensive to them to be able to implement something because there's a lot more red table, lot more approval process of things you need to go through. But IT is just Normal people who understand how difficult running of businesses and understanding how much more difficult running of businesses when what you're being paid in consulting, he gets to short. And so we're really focusing on the early use cases where it's either a core in a common there's bakwin ers were in the pay and there's lot of, uh, no, where bitcoin is court to someone's business.

But then also for the people that, that bakin isn't court of their business are basically saying, okay, I understand this medium bitcoin. I understand why if I don't take this step, i'm going to have to at some point in the future. And I can use that as a strategy advantage now on today by attracting bk winners to my business. And even if they don't pay me in bitcoin, the fact that I accept that is an advantage over my competition is a way for me to find customers. And so um those are really the two architect es that that were targeting the product toward and are the people that are coming in .

most yeah for that small to medium business that isn't court a bit coin. I know that you talk to a lot of your customers every day does ever wouldn't seek them piece of mind like even if people aren't spending that going with them.

I don't think it's so much piece of mind. I think that IT is IT is always too full that i'm doing this to eliminate concern. And on that side is is piece of mind.

But it's more again, that high agency like i'm solving a problem. You know like if a business or or identifies the problem, their business, they don't necessary just fix up for piece of miles. Okay, I fix that problem now.

I can be on to the next. I can. I can know that that that that pieces solved.

And and so I don't necessarily I think of problems solving as as just piece of mind. And then it's forward action of thing. Okay, now that I have this, I want na turn IT into an asset.

I want to make this known to my customers, make IT known why i'm doing this, why it's important to mean why they should come work with someone this values aligned. And that's very logically other bit winners. So um you know piece of mine I said is only one common, but they want to actually then get value beyond that. And so it's it's kind of leveraging IT, not just as a cost center but to you take .

ground yeah .

don't say .

partly answer, but I was going to ask next, like what what do you think needs more attention, extra tools to facilitate these payments? The education round, why people should leverage tools in the first place? And he mentioned something that remind me of um or t or former doctor SHE retired but that's one thing I really, really like SHE used up right I paid her the coin but SHE did at the section on her website which is like we accept biton and explained why he accepted bitcoin SHE was valued in line with sound open source money and that alone um by her accepting bad coins and having to explain why because people could see IT to check out they you just see that there's no explanations that when I doing this is a business on her some of particularly felt compelled to to explain why that's of itself like a an education touch point for for people are not aware of that win. But still the broader a question like what needs more attention right now education around why or why you should use the tools or attention on making the tools as seamless and easy use as possible.

So is the end is it's. They eat, relate to the other, which is the tools have to exist and where they have to be easy to use in order for someone to have the opportunity to be educated. Why they're important to then adopt them.

But then the more that people adopt them, the Better the tools become and the more resources you have to go out and educate more people on why they are important. And so I think that on the front side, IT is delivering the actual tool that for sufficient number of merchants to be able to adopt um is is necessary. But beyond there, IT does.

Then the first step is educating the merchants that the bitcoin holders saying you if you are a business owner, you should invest in this for your business and you should open up this meeting for your customers and that will benefit your business on a range of, on a range of levels. That next step, which we do encourage business owners to do, is to make IT known that you're accepting biceps and not just that. But why? Because in verona case, IT was SHE about, soren tei understand ichang and SHE wanted to tap and attracts local patients.

Here are an arson that were, value is one. yeah. Her service was open to a broad base people. But IT became a not just like a marketing channel, like how do I go? We know quiet customers on the internet, but okay, this is what my services.

How do I find people that actually value what i'm delivering to the market? These big coiners seem to value the service i'm delivering. If I do this, that will be a signal itself. And if I tell them why they are more likely to attract more of them, and you can say that up, everyone say she's unique, but she's body is very sovereign minded and in beckon resonated with the her very well. But anybody that figured out why bitcoin is a Better form of money is recognized that, as i'm talking about as a business owner, that why the fiat currency is a problem and they open up their business with, like thinking about a dentist and michigan saying, hey, all my customers, you can, you can pay me if you want. And if you're in this local area, come come to me, if you're a big winner is a way to signal and communicate that your values aligned.

And the more that people know that you'll accepting in backwards because you understand bitcoin and that you're saving a betwen, that is also a necessary, i'm say, necessary IT is a peace that is important to getting people to actually pay you in the coin because if you accept bitcoin and you're immediately converting at the dollars and everyone knows that and they knew that you're not actually values line, why would they do that if they have dollars or just spend the dollars there? That's on every case. But it's a two sided equation.

Like the tools exist, the merchants have to be educated. Why this important to those people that are sitting in the burning house? We say, okay, i'm a bit winter.

I understand bitcoin. I run a business. Me not doing this is actually low agency. If I do do this and if I invest in the side of my business, I can then go market and acquire the queens are around me. There will be a lot of benefits that come from that.

And then as that happens, like if the rails exist and no one uses them, the rails will not get Better or the rails just want to exist, and so they do have to be. And we think this is very much merchant LED, you know, two side of the equation, which is like it's not consumer saying I want to pay in backin. It's people that run businesses that understand the benefits of background, understands the risk of fiat rails and say, yeah, i'm going to to build this in to my business before I have to and then turn IT to an advantage. But in order to turn IT to my advantage, I need to educate my customers because that was quarter, maybe why I decided to do this in the first place because I was educated. So IT becomes logical to extend that education.

yeah. And it's the converse of what we talked about earlier, which is, again, you don't, anna, be the congratulations you played yourself mean like holding your bitcoin and not supporting the business owners that you depend on for the goods and services you use throughout your life. Conversely, the business owner wants to attract the big corner because they want that customer that actually has good money, that has money to spend and actually preserves value to sell their gods and services, which is the synthetic tic.

Yeah, a very sympathetically ship. I gave a presentation a few weeks ago talking about the various different benefits. And that I think is one of the again, IT is hard to appreciate if you are sitting there looking at the worst thing.

I'm going to just storm value in the bitcoin in and i'll deal with fights as rail, not realizing that the fiat system in the rails of that risk that. If you are not more like this, this seems like a tail, even three out. This is an inevitability.

So you might say, well, it's gonna happen for two decades. If I say that probably happens in this decade, but even if i'm wrong, is there is there some reason why you wouldn't benefit from the same logic and that that logic is well, and I use this cartoon not to make a light of what's happening. Invest well. But this is cartoon where a guy shows up with the wheel bear of dollars and medals, a bully vars, I guess, just sitting at them in a shack with several roles of toilet paper, and the guy is up with a wheelbarrow of full of cash and walks away with one roof toil paper.

That if you're customers and if you're not keeping your customers to people who hold bitcoin, so if your business is highly ted to people that only have to o currency as you need to increase Prices, if I think about sam on local passions as he increases the Price of eggs, if a certain point people that only have fear get tapped out by vir, Price increases. And that's ultimately how your business gets impair because your revenue either goes down because you lose customers, you you increase rise, which means that fewer and fewer customers are sharing more and more of the burden or you're constantly having to invest. Marketing cost require more customers, so kind of like running on a trial. But one thing happens for certain, as you continue to increase Prices, somebody someone of your customers says, I I can keep paying. I'm gonna downgrade my life to some shady fact yeah .

and that .

by catering your business to people whose money is storing, purchasing area continues as examples like hey, when the egg Price increases happen, if I can actually purchase more x despite the dollar Price increase because my bitcoin as a value, i'm saving the majority of my value. I can continue to be a customer. That's why I don't actually have to degrade my lifestyle.

I I can sustain the dollar Price increases because my bitcoin purchasing power continues to go despite that fact. Well, put yourself on the other side of that equation, which is the business owner. If you don't have customers like that, eventually your customers start showing up.

Your customers can no longer be your customers. And if someone is looking at that equation saying like what's the likelihood of that happening, it's that is happening every single day like right now. And because as food of the grocery store cost fifty percent more than I did four years ago, they still have to keep buying food.

So they might not only have to substitute no one quality of food for a lower quality food, but they're cutting something else out of their life. Those like even if you're not raising Prices, somebody else is and they might have to turn your service off because they can no longer sustain IT. And that is happening every single day right now.

Today we see videos of IT all the time. Um and the faster or the sooner that someone says i'm open for business with back when I get IT, I know why I need the value. I know why I need a cater to you.

You can pay me in the mind you hold. I actually prefer that. And if you pay me in that, I actually have a Better chance of continue to be able to deliver this service that you value.

There's the mutual benefit. There's how bitcoins actually creating valley. The more exchange is helping facilitate, the more value you actually get from the remaining ninety nine point nine percent of your big coin that you didn't spend on that individual transaction.

Yeah, and let's dive into one of the marketing tactics that we've been talking about last few weeks, which is publicly positioning your products in the bitcoin per unit and tracking that and articulating that in the .

market call the market strategy just something that that is something that is logical for a if you follow if you are business on as example and you follow this logic that as you increase Prices, you are ultimately pricing somebody out your you're impair ing your business because you're now having to recreate a customer from that person that gets Price out.

And if you keep doing this and you're only taiLoring your business to customers that that have fee order, you're not actively trying to get customers that have sound money, whether they pay you big or not, you you're going to faces the lama. And that what really matters. And this is where I was like, clearly the dollar till the new account, clearly the dollars of the primary reserve asset.

However, as more people hold bitcoin reserve and that will become the primary reserve for for the reason that you will become the primary medium exchange in the of account. but. If you are saving in decline and because bitcoin increases in purchasing power for the reason that is a fixed and more people are adopting IT for all those collected benefits, then your unit of account is really biquet.

And so even if you're not tracking things in your daily life, I think like what that means to be a union account. Humans do hundreds, if not thousands of economic calculations in their head. They they might even be conscious up on a daily basis.

That's all still done in dollars, but there's a moment where you're thinking about something maybe like a house that you're going to buy and you say, how much does that cost in bitcoin? What percentage of my bitcoin is that house? You've starting to Price things in the ground well, because they keep printing dollars and because people continue to increase Prices and dollars because they're input cost going up.

That the way that I think IT becomes logical to measure your own effectiveness as a business is to start to think about your dollar Price increases in begin terms. And so again, translating this to a finite surface area so someone can understand i'm talking about IT, is I did this analysis, which was looking at the eggs at the local farmers market going from eight to eight, seventy five. This is a great .

example of our congratulations. You played yourself on the first part.

yes, and explain that.

Well, yeah.

well in this, explain that now, six years ago, the Price of bitcoin was dropping from its astronauts SE. I would say I was correcting from twenty thousand and three or four thousand. And the fed wanted a dunk.

Bitcoin said, hey, look, the Price of eggs are going up ambit in terms. And so the roof blog and realistically was about volatile, but they were making this point that the cost of x was going up in the coin terms drastically. And then if you extend that, the blog is still up and they have a chart now that is like a fred chart, uh, saint Louis fed produced.

That is the cost of ages and dollars side by side with cost of ages in bitcoin. And you can see that the cost of egg's national average and dollars has gone from a dollar forty seven to three dollars and eighty one cents a dozen, and increase in dollar ms of hundred and sixty percent. But from that low of twenty eighteen in the fed put out the the peace to highlight the the Price was was increasing in big common terms over time.

For fundamental reasons, the Price tags drops ambit coin and that IT actually costs less. Now Amber coin to buy the same doesn't effects. So extremely so was like, yeah, that was that was the own on the face park IT did demonstrate these two divergent trends, also establishing or helping to established why, as a business owner, you should start to be thinking again.

Am not saying Price things in bitcoin to your customers, but thinking about as you're contemplating changing dollar Prices to use bitcoin as that lights, as that anchor to say, am I increasing the cost of my good ending inal terms and real terms? Or and I just accounting for the fact that they they have printed more money. And the way to do that is to say, you know, using IT, a hard example, which is our local venture, a dollars of eggs going to eight, seventy five.

And that eight dollar Price was the case from two thousand twenty one to two thousand and twenty three. And then just a few months ago was increased to eight seventy five thousand nine percent dollar Price increase. But if you look at IT over any of those three years between the current Price of exams, I tween terms is less.

So he yes, he increases Price nominal terms and dollar terms, but he didn't increases Prices in real big coin terms. And if his business cared increasingly to people that have big coin, then that's what ultimately matters to them. And any business owner that is trying to sustain themselves can accept the dollar Price increases are inevitable because dollar they're making a lot more dollars. But if you're not able to consistently maintain or reduce your Price ammick in terms, then whatever dollar Price you're reflecting is probably going to impact your business more than otherwise should. And again, it's not to say start pricing your things ambiquity.

Is that start being aware of your dollar Price increases in thinking of them relative to the the change in the Price of your good and backin terms over time as this parameter this kind of chicken baLance to see whether or not um you're actually um becoming more effective in in in the in the hard money term, which over time becomes the the more important arbor. And then my perspective is people should actually lean into IT because in certain cases, Price increases in dollar world are inevitable. And just as me know, I might get out on twitter and talk about how, yeah, hey, this good services increase this amount is to start leaning into IT and saying, yes, we have to increase our Prices because they're making a lot more dollars.

Our inputs are going up in dollar terms because there's more dollars floating around competing for the same number of good and services, but we didn't increase our Prices in begin terms. We encourage you to pay a ibc in and will continue to be transparent about why were increasing Prices. Um but the more you can help us of paying us in the forest mine, that can be debate will allow us to, in real terms, actually reduce Prices over time because that's ultimately be what we think matters most of our ability to continue to deliver the service.

Again, i'm not saying that someone's gone to hear that and immediately be like, yes, i'm going to do that tomorrow. But fundamentally, that is the right logical way to think about IT and it's the IT. IT ultimately becomes the recipe of survival and success for a business owner in the way that they start to shift over to a big queen standard. Not just accepting and not just saving in on the baLanced, but thinking about the relationship between this kind of water bed is existing of dollar Prices constantly changing and the impact that has on their business and making sure that they can always look to the anchor the thing that's not changing bitcoin in and say, am I, am I raising my present by coin turn because that would make that would not make sense because they have been printing bakwin and then looking at that over time um and that becomes one way that over time you slowly start to Normalize into uh ultimately backfire stand and background Prices.

Yeah and we've been we .

ve been spit on ideas .

because there has to be some sort of like trAiling index on this could do a Price votile ity like a view. Just say you increase so you have a similar cycle to cycle pass s with the blow off top next december in you increase Prices that month and then you increase some six months later in between gone down like thirty percent, whatever IT may be. Technically that would be like an increase in bacon Prices um so that we've been tried to figure what is the index or the trAiling time period which you track this.

right? And I think reality is you you do IT like bitcoin ist of auto. But the question is, if you are, if you are increasing in this, the other side of the equation, i've like if I was a business or how I be thinking about this.

If i'm increasing my Prices every six months, like i've got a real problem, and that's just reality. In in, in part of this discussion of this line is accepting this fact, the dollar inflation is this vicious cycle, and there is no easy solution to IT. There is no silver bullet of saying i'm just going to opt out and i'm on big coin now and that's IT.

No, that sound the way the real world works. If i'm a local range, if i'm a local grocery, a dentist, whatever i'm doing, I have maybe one percent of the world understands big. I've got cost their dog and I i've got more dollars competing against an existing pool of resources. That's just reality. But I can either be lower agency and not take margin steps to to move off of that problem or I can be higher agency and take those margin steps.

And so thinking about and saying, hey, like in the the local answer case where I was showing this example, I looked at IT as a two year average and looked at IT compared to twenty twenty one, twenty twenty two, twenty twenty three, saying like okay, like yeah is this is this generally line? It's like it's it's the best effort. It's not I mean, maybe I have to, but i'm at least paying attention to this and being aware of the well, i'm doing IT.

And if you're looking at something over an average, then you're taking into account volatility. But the other half of how you solve this is if you you're saving ambit oin you're baLance sheet. Over time. And again, there's no quick solution to this. But if you are progressively saving in that baLance sheet, is what is paying in helping bear the brunt of dollar Price increases. Because if you are thinking about passing Price increases under your customer but then thinking about the in relation to bitcoin, if you've been saving in bit in for a year, maybe bitcoin gone down over that year. But if it's two years of its three years, you you increasingly become yeah in the in the Green or in the black to say like, okay, i've stored purchasing power. My inputs are actually cheaper now because i've saved in bitcoin and when my supplier increases my Price, I can look at IT and say, do I want to pass that increase on to the customer or you know what i've saved in big coin? For this reason, i'm an issue to differ the Price increase to gain a competitive advantage against my customer because I can still .

buy the same amount of product.

Um now marginal profit is always important and you're going you're not going to want to be um running any activity at a was. But by having your baLance sheet saved in bitcoin and thinking about like you know, one way that I related to business and is thinking about each gross profit unit and saying you get to put gross profit unit and then from that point for is degraded and degraded and degraded, imagine if each of those growth profit units, marginally, not one hundred percent wants, was converted in the bitcoin. Because also when people are setting big coin payments, IT doesn't magically to show up that a one hundred percent of their business is getting paid in back when it's two percent.

three percent, five percent.

Yeah, right. And so that might become what you are just able to save and put away. But then over time, as you need to pay your employees more, well, you've had the big queen and it's offset the dollar inflation.

So you know you're good. And part of the impact of that, those dollar Price increases is blunted. Buy your baLance, you. And so by looking at this collectively is like, okay, we can't just magically solve this vicious cycle of dollar inflation. The only way out is through the storm and I have to start thinking about both how I pass on dollar Price increases to my customers as well as how I manage Price increases from my suppliers or my inputs with this tool and um and looking at IT collectively on both you know being conscious of Mickey domi R A real terms as well as nominal um and then also how you mange your baLance. You is is the only way to actually .

solve a problem yeah now I admire and really value your no you I will called this litter but you're passion for this particular problem and solving because I do you really hooked on to this problem. Like two years ago in inflation, like hit nine ten percent in.

I remember having conversations with the were not panic, but like we need to go to a gas station, figure out how to get them to accept we need to go beef initiated was blowing up is like good. We're get the matters figured out. But there .

is this urgency.

I would argue there certainly should be emergency to yet everything that we've been discussing into motion as quickly as possible because we have been in this period where the rather inflations come down. That's bold.

I mean.

a lot of people into a false sense of security.

What I would say is certain things have started to come down in Price. Food has not in anything generally marginal. Service wise has not fuel has. But again, we've massively depleted our strategic reserves that the on a margin basis like printing oil or gas.

And so there's just this fundamental reality that as the fiat system deteriora doesn't get less expensive in fiat terms to deliver, 对， like IT becomes more more efficient with sound money to deliver services cheaper and cheaper, that problem does not magically get Better. And we are setting up for this next point of they're lowering interest rates and they're about the printing ship on the money is problems not know. It's like kind of if you're in the eye, the storm, maybe that's the right analogy and it's not to to panic, but is that is it's the Operate with urgency and intentionality about there's a there's a problem.

It's clear it's present. We can be higher agency and go you figure out how to put one foot in from the other and actually advance towards solving a problem. Or we can sit back and hope and change the strategy. Um and that you know I do we've lily lived in a world in twenty twenty where and again IT was a government will shut down, but the beat go stop shown up the solution that problem was like go shake a range of hand and make sure that you have relationship with that guy and so that that guy keeps putting food on your plate and you have a real relationship, you reduce the risk um but just thinking about that problem is a microcosm to everything is is that. Businesses fail because of inflation.

More businesses fail as inflation worsens because they're consistently having to spend more of their time looking at this, understanding how their backwards and that they need to increase Prices and then they impair their business by pricing certain customers out. And so if you accept this premise, which is that IT makes businesses harder to run with inflation, it's not just you know the academic economy saying, well, you know or the person sitting there saying i'm just to store my value, not spend my dog saying, okay well as that cause as if I look at that business and I show up tomorrow and IT has is now charged me five percent more and then I show up in six months and is charging me another seven percent more. That that is the the business basically trying to get ahead of a problem and that IT doesn't fix itself.

The only way that, that problem fixed is by saying you start accepting backup in you can stop in the future at some future date, stop increasing your Prices for the reason that you have money is not getting the bed over time. And I like that's the only way out. And so just the more people that that focus in on like that problems not getting solved period, unless you have higher agency and the people that are that are them almost by definition, highest of agency or Bakeries and people that run businesses and then the overlap of people that run businesses that are Bakers, there are the ones that will say, like i'm not going to just sit in this lucky house as a burns. I'm going to go turn on my business so you can pay me in the coin. And as more big questions exist, more more people will see that very logical path.

yeah. And I think it's important to obviously, there's a lot of anticipation for this presidential election that does seem like it's trend ing in the direction that many of us what need to go in, which is away from being covered administration towards um in more what I would didn't to be more saying administration.

But I also think as people are becoming more confident that trump is going to get back in office, there is a level of complacent because this is ease out there. Talking big game were enjoying down energy Prices to solve inflation. But the structural issues that exists in the U.

S. There's too much debt, not enough dollars, still persist. There's not many levels he can pull outside of a complete designation of the administrate of class in the federal government that would actually quite the problem or solve the problem in any material way.

And I find IT hard to believe that, that is going to happen easily, if at all. It's just trying to get to the point, like despite the fact that IT seems like a more seen administration may be coming into power as we had in the twenty twenty five of this inflation problems. Still external to that.

it's still yeah, I would say it's foundational. And so that's one of things that there can be certain policies that are marginally Better and beneficial to worse policies. And those should be pursued, right?

If IT makes sense to incentivize building manufacturing in the united tes rather than allowing complaints only help across the border not be subject to the same costs and then popping back over. But maybe that took policy. I probably agree with that until people talk about the fact that the printing of money is the source.

Understand the two things relate to each other. The government wants to spend a lot of money in the fed finances at the air, because the two people are in bed together, but if you didn't have the ability, the forcing function is taking away, the ability to print money fed, never going away on a zone. Only way to solve IT is bitcoin.

And my view is that until people start to talk about the money printing as the problem, then they might be very well intention about solving other economic issues. They're never going to solve the problem of inflation for the reason they're not talking about the right thing. But then also in what you mention, something I talk about, what graduate and graduate and suddenly, which is there is just a structural bounce between the amount of jet and system and the amount of actual dollars.

And that is what dict ates, that almost regardless of what even the government does at the same point, they're onna have to print more money, otherwise that entire system collapses. And is the printing of mine that actually differs the collapse. And that my view is the the cause relationship, the dictates where more more money will be printed mathematically.

And that if I saw a clip from what's the Thomas massie and he had this a couple t and said, let me show you what happens when you print bunch more money and he took a bow, a jugg, a water imported in the teeth. Like this is delusion. Like this is what happens when you print money again, Thomas masses is talking about IT. Yeah, I don't think that, lisa, a congressional level given though he's read the bitcoin stand and talking about IT on the pocket. He's not talking about bitcoin as part of the solution in front of congress, obviously, the luces illumina.

But but yes, so I think that yeah, there is just the structural baLance in in one part, I talk about being debt to dollars and other part is like when when you think about the economic baLance that is that and is what also drives hyper inflation, give certain people that have more dollars and they can ever need and you have this holder swap, probably the majority people that don't have a role in economy to be able to sustain themselves and they have no savings and economic and baLance just gets worse and work in this world. And then you have people that have way more dollars that are just ejecting up because they don't need them ever to actually facilitate the things they need their daily lives. Well, the same time you have people to have nothing and is ultimately what you're striving for.

And baLance not mean equality. BaLance means away for an economic system to constantly fine, baLanced by through trade by delivering mutual value um and so ultimately is Better than worse if somebody who respects the constitution and doesn't you know go after their political rivals like the democracy of trump and somebody that actually has a perspective on an economic policy that will be more sustaining and exporting all our manufacturing to other countries and then having them ship back in and paying for IT basically the other printing of money um to be there that that that is Better than the alternative. But IT doesn't get solved like the the problem of inflation.

Everything we're talking about, like there's no way out of this vicious cycle. Dollar can fix itself, is too far gone, is too far broken and IT only becomes more in fractured over time. The baLance only is greater as a function of time.

That doesn't mean that something doesn't correct slowly over three months and then gets worse over the next year. Um but it's it's a functioning a one way directional trend. And that's why, again, i'm not i'm actually very optimistic. It's just like, hey, the way that you become optimistic is by actually taking the forward steps to permanently solve the problem, and that's where IT comes back to. If you're business and you're not taking that forward action, you know the inflation is causing your business havoc. You're cause like if if you didn't constantly and bitcoins not can solve this in the short term, but if you're not constantly having to think about raising Prices just for the fact that you know that they're printing money and that you have your employees that are constantly asking you for raises because their costs getting more like, you know that inflation is causing your problem and there is only one solution and a bitcoin. And if you're not taking every possible advantage to solve that problem, you're just dinner that in the water, you know yeah but I think it's .

very apparent anybody listen to this podcast so much prefer trump in hope that he gets in the office by do link. He has been making a strategic misstep in choregraphic or attending to choregraphic. He's going to bring down Prices. So I think is structural issues that you just describe as impossible. And it's my hope is that he does develop the intentional fortitude and understanding to actually call out the problem is going the opposite directions in the dollar is the .

best singing .

A C and launching a chick win. But that I mean again, strategic missed step in the sense that there is a very not only a possibility but a high likelihood that he does get in office. We have an econic crisis. We have the perner's on the money and inflation. Because back to where I was a couple years, we have a repeat on the one thousand nine hundred and seventy I go inflation, ed.

And I would hope that he has surrounded himself with advisers and people within his administration that are capable enough to recognise and have, again, the industry fortitude to basically say IT publicly because that's the big problem like the elephant in the room that you're not at a point out and acknowledge is that the dollar is a problem, the feet system is a problem. Until that is recognized, you can at at least at the federal level, what we're describing here is how to save yourself at the individual small business level. But this problem has layers going all the way up to the top layer of the federal government. And until IT is officially acknowledged and confront his head on which I think senor lamas with the equality act is trying to do. But we I think we need more momentum in that room.

Well, I think that clearly charm doesn't get IT. He's at least figured out why politically he needs to align himself. And so that's that's at least .

an improvement right .

we can get. I also believe there are people around him who are much closer to actually getting IT um just from hearing people choosing one person as example, the wake I think that he is starting to to clearly send IT same with R F K. I garci speech at the american conference was phenomenal and they're still the possibility that he didn't full get. He went talk to a shakin conference. But the way that he spoke about that, if you do, you accept the knowledge stripes over time, more people understand, but not less, that the way that R F, G you're talking about backward from the twenty twenty three conference, twenty twenty four conference, markedly different, you know. And so there are increasingly people around that aren't just sympathetic to IT, but I think you're increasingly grows IT and that will be beneficial because I agree that there is this economic tsunami y coming and they are going to have to bring ship shit time money that's gonna the problems worse than having people that are seeing this film, recognizing this is the only way out and that there's gonna have to be some pain to be fill. It's not to still be in is not you um not optimistic is actually just ragged .

tic rag matic .

and saying I the way that I can actually solve this problem and be optimistic and be OK with tolerating pain is by knowing that I have A A path out on the I will if you're not actually keep IT on the medium that's actually causing IT, then it's a lot harder to to be optimistic or to to be able to sustain in to yeah whether that storm one of things are increasingly appreciate about naibari when when he spoke at sea back now, when did he explain, you know, why do they .

tax you in .

a very the same way of saying, like they don't tech you to find the government. They text you to give the illusion that you find the government because that allows to continue money and that when the currency feels when the trade feels like there's gonna lot of pain, like he's really honest about that. He's taking a forward action to protect their local economy and adds our local there's gonna a impact to their local economy.

And the way that he speaks about IT is saying, like there's unavoidable pain to come. Like that is that is unavoidable. And well, he might not say this next paris like he understands why.

And in certain cases, he certainly connects IT to the money. But he doesn't talk about IT in a in a negative sense. He just talks about in a in a realistic sense. And if we're not be an honest and we don't have any realistic chance of weight in a finding our way through the storm are actually coming out the other side strong um and yeah basically saying like the more you accept in the front in the more easily you can be able to to move forward um in a effective way yeah how should .

we leave IT with the breeks? What called action should we set out there?

This was powerful.

This is the best for that we have done in a few years.

I think seen that every time I know.

and only gets Better for.

and only gets Better. The I thought the last one we did was pretty that they're going not the american dream, but nothing more american than that.

No internal ac, actually. Like, I think this is, I hope I mean, your president acquire with me. But we've been talking about this a lot over last two years and more specifically, over the last three weeks because I do feel that urgency again to really secure. It's the businesses that I am dependent on to receive goods services because you can feel coming back like the nine percent increase in sure tail like that where we get eggs, like what happening again despite the fact are saying that inflation dropping, the great inflation dropping. But I do hope, but I can't imagine that people listening to this deal feel inspired to act and go go out there in seriously think about .

solving this problem yeah so i'd say one if you hadn't read the article to read the article because when exchange theory value that on my blog graduate and suddenly that X, Y Z, except hopefully logically once you ve read that the big coin actually increases in value as its able to facilitate change, that the media backend and the value period is created through trade.

And to not sit there and just stare at your bitcoin on the screen and thinking like i'm going to be OK um because this inanimate object of my screens onna create value on its zone. And if I just sit here for long enough that that I will, it's that you to be high agency, particularly if you run a business, to say, I accept that I have this problem already, found bitcoin for the reason that i've accepted this problem, and I shouldn't stop there. I should actually work progressively, if even incrementally, marginally, to cut the problem.

How does that needs one step at a time, one day at a time? And if you're in the position to do so, and generally, businesses are privately owned, one or two key decision makers served some. I understanding bacon, there are the ones that are in the position to lead to to say, yeah, the rails exist. They are workable.

You know, are they going to get Better over time? Are they going to get more rope? Sorry, I think you get more and more seamless.

And is friction increasingly going to be taken at them, of course, but they're in a position right now to accept them. And if I don't no if not me, then who and to take that action. And the customers will show up you if if you leverage IT. So um and then for the rest of the big other accepting that you know just that idea that no there's no more imperative to go out there and spend your background.

That's not the message that i'm Carrying is that while there's no you know you don't need to go to spend your bitcoin to for for IT to great value, if no one does if no one is high agency, then yes, we got a real we got we have a problem. And that when you actually go, if I think about going in spending no small percent of my back in with calls stake like i'm spat spending like point zero zero zero one percent of my back one like i'm saving everything else and not by by having the foresighted to say I can't just sit in the housework burns. Actually, I solve my problems and I can do that by helping to knowing, educate people and why this is important, but putting them in a position to accept the new, that they can adopt the tools if they want to, in a very accessible way.

What people are do that than less that we're going to be. So um you know each day is a day take take ground and more ground is taken by more business under saying that they want to um except big one payment. So sn too .

much of a gentlemen to humble. L I will give the shoulders Operators the perfect tool to begin accepting this payment particular because you have both the and bitcoin payments in parallel.

I like the way I forget who described at the john, what we were talking about this said over beers a few weeks ago is like the others, when diagram of people that accept, the people that accept that will accept big in the future, and that the circles are beginning to to blend in the small intersection in the middle. Getting bigger and bigger in zapora is the perfect tool to facilitate your business here. Accepting a money generally, whether speak coin or fight, as those circles converge.

Yeah, yeah. And I didn't intentionally leave out elaborate, but I do think, you know, again, my passage is broader than that like this. Yes, a lot of great companies building a lot of great tools, you know.

But one thing I didn't mention me, I was like there's lot of different. There's business customers, consumers, there's people building in the in the bitcoin community and financing and accepting that like like this is this is an aspect of bitcoin that's actually critical to its proliferation. As many the more we can do to fact and perfect IT as money that the more valuable everything in the big one ecosystem becomes.

But yeah it's zapora. Um it's not just that we except big win dollars is a huge benefit of IT like we recognize that on chain payments are just as important as lightning um we have an ape. People can manage just one of the popular use cases of Opera. And anybody who has development resources that is in bitcoin have being able to manage one A P, I where they can facilitate their bitcoin and at payments is incredibly powerful. So um anyway that potentially be interested in B I reach out to me and yeah um yeah we support people like local dentist to highly technical large .

businesses. So yeah .

like to yeah.

We're still, as I say, we were highly technical, big business. We have we have .

camera medio al, medium ire, medium ire. What we're going to need to do this, save the ranchers. Let the ranchers save the world. Focus on our things that we control can control our media environment. And one by one.

we're going to win piece of.